----- Log file opened 2008-04-21T23:56 -----
[23:57:08]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html | Show up now for XDevConf: April 16-18 - see http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2008.
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[02:41:35]  <mraudsepp> warren: any followup post to http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-driver-geode/2008-April/000311.html ? :)
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----- Log file opened 2008-04-22T07:37 -----
[07:37:59]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html | Show up now for XDevConf: April 16-18 - see http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2008.
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----- Log file closed 2008-04-22T09:39 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-04-22T09:40 -----
[09:40:09]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html | Show up now for XDevConf: April 16-18 - see http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2008.
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[10:22:27]  <warren> mraudsepp: are you seeing the problem too?
 [10:22:52]  <mraudsepp^ not really, but I'm currently stuck with fluxbox for a bit longer
 [10:24:02]  <warren^ eh?
 [10:24:12]  <warren> you are not seeing this problem?
 [10:25:00]  <mraudsepp^ no, because I can't trigger it with anything at the moment
 [10:26:17]  <warren^ what version of xorg server?
 [10:26:42]  <mraudsepp> 1.4.0.90 with patches. Working on getting GNOME installed..
 [10:27:52]  <warren^ it could possibly be a 1.5 only problem
 [10:27:57]  <CosmicPenguin> Chasing the black box problem?
 [10:28:05]  <warren> Option "EXANoComposite" "yes" works around the problem
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[10:29:27]  <CosmicPenguin> warren: this is with metacity, right?
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[10:30:16]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: yes
 [10:30:37]  <MrCooper^ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15513 ?
 [10:30:46]  <CosmicPenguin+ what does metacity use underneath for drawing?  Cario?
 [10:30:50]  <CosmicPenguin> Cairo rather
 [10:30:52]  <CosmicPenguin> something elese?
 [10:31:09]  * CosmicPenguin hasn't kept up with the goings and comings of the X toolkit layers
 [10:31:14]  <warren> uh
 [10:31:26]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: our desktop team would know this, I don't
 [10:32:07]  <mraudsepp> that metacity isn't composited, is it?
 [10:32:23]  <warren> how do I tell?
 [10:32:32]  <warren> I don't think we enable metacity compositing by default
 [10:32:38]  <mraudsepp> do windows have shadows (I lost the link to the screenshot)
 [10:32:53]  <CosmicPenguin> The key is finding out exactly what operation is causing the failure
 [10:33:02]  <warren> Q-FUNK: so in talking with folks last night, they suggested 16V @ 4.5A should be fine on this thing.  Indeed it did boot and run without crashing.
 [10:33:11]  <CosmicPenguin> so we can run that single operation in a closed environment and ErrorF to the rescue
 [10:33:22]  <warren> Q-FUNK: oddly enough, I can't VT switch though.  Everything else is working though.
 [10:33:24]  <CosmicPenguin> If it is cairo, then there are an excellent set of cairo benchmarks we can use for that task
 [10:33:50]  <warren> does KDE use cairo?
 [10:34:03]  <CosmicPenguin> no
 [10:34:08]  <CosmicPenguin> Is this KDE?
 [10:34:12]  <warren> no
 [10:34:13]  <MrCooper^ try the patch from the bug report
 [10:34:48]  <spstarr_work> KDE uses Arther
[10:34:57]  <spstarr_work> Qt's 'cairo'
 [10:35:21]  <CosmicPenguin> I think this is a good old-fashioned driver bug
 [10:35:29]  <CosmicPenguin> the hard part is finding out exactly what is causing it
 [10:36:02]  <CosmicPenguin> Its not a good course of action to seed the driver with ErrorFs and fire up Metacity - you won't like what you get
[10:36:10]  <CosmicPenguin> so if we can narrow down the operations, then we win
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[10:36:35]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: do you agree I should try the above patch?
 [10:36:39]  <MrCooper> so this isn't about the glyph corruption?
 [10:36:42]  <warren> no
 [10:36:49]  <CosmicPenguin^ do you have that screenshot?
 [10:36:53]  <MrCooper> okay, ignore me then :)
 [10:37:00]  <warren> http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/geode-bad-redraw.png
 [10:37:04]  <CosmicPenguin> The above patch sure wouldn't hurt, but I don't think thats the problem
 [10:37:11]  <warren> entire blocks and buttons and some text labels in nautilus are black
 [10:37:24]  <CosmicPenguin> Is it only text?
 [10:37:45]  <warren> well, seems to be blocks that contain text
 [10:38:28]  <CosmicPenguin> that would imply that a8 masks are hosed
 [10:38:42]  <warren> for example, if you have four icons on your desktop
 [10:38:45]  <warren> and the 4th disappears
 [10:38:50]  <warren> the 3rd icon's label becomes black
 [10:39:00]  <CosmicPenguin> hmm - maybe it is the eviction problem
 [10:40:07]  <warren> i'll try a build with this patch
 [10:40:09]  <CosmicPenguin> We need to find out what engine metacity uses, so we can run the test apps
 [10:40:22]  <warren> if you know how to figure that out, I'm all for it
 [10:40:33]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: or you got a box to run a F-9 terminal server?
 [10:40:37]  <warren> super easy to install now
 [10:40:43]  <CosmicPenguin> My normal tactic is asking somebody at Redhat
 [10:40:43]  <CosmicPenguin> :)
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[11:06:14]  * warren still waiting for server build
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[11:29:26]  <warren> doh!
 [11:29:28]  <warren> my upload failed at 95%
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[12:20:06]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: MrCooper: that EXA eviction patch didn't help this problem
 [12:20:39]  <CosmicPenguin> I didn't think so
 [12:31:49]  <warren> hah
 [12:31:54]  <warren> youtube crashed X
 [12:32:02]  <CosmicPenguin> thats because X is trying to protect you
 [12:32:32]  <warren> pulseaudio segfaulted, then ldmgtkgreet segfaulted
 [12:32:34]  <warren> so it wasn't X's fault
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[13:04:12]  <Q-FUNK> warren: for vt switching, a patch against X core was submitted upstream
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[13:04:28]  <warren> Q-FUNK: bug #?
 [13:04:41]  <warren> oddly the TK-3550 doesn't have this the VT switching problem
 [13:05:28]  <warren> I found a 12V @ 2A.  The 16V @ 4.5A seemed to have been working, but I suspect this one is closer to desired?
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[13:47:53]  <Q-FUNK> yes, 12v @ 2a is better
 [13:55:04]  <DrNick> dear X people: introduce an event which describes which regions of a window are no longer visible
 [13:55:18]  <DrNick> I grow tired of Firefox chewing CPU time running animated GIFs when it's minimized
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[14:07:52]  <leio> DrNick: you think the functionality isn't there?
 [14:08:55]  <ajax> it isn't.
 [14:09:21]  <ajax> you can get an event for when you change visibility _state_, but not the region.
 [14:09:39]  <ajax> and you get exposes for when those regions go back to visible
 [14:10:51]  <MrCooper> and how is visibility state different from area in the case of a minimized window?
 [14:11:20]  <ajax> for that case, it's not, you're right.  but that's straight up being unmapped.
 [14:11:41]  <MrCooper> depends on the window manager?
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[14:12:19]  <ajax> maybe.  you could me mapped but outside the view rect, i suppose.
 [14:13:30]  <ajax> which would be "visible", legally speaking.
 [14:15:10]  <MrCooper> in particular with a compositing manager, 'minimized' doesn't necessarily imply 'invisible' as far as the app is concerned
 [14:16:13]  <ajax> well.  in the absence of input redirection, it's tough to _not_ unmap windows when you minimize them.  otherwise, they still get input events according to their logical coordinates
 [14:16:49]  <ajax> but, in the presence of a compositing manager, the concept of "visible" is vague anyway.  alpha blending, and all that.
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[15:54:31]  <jcristau> meh. i have mplayer getting BadAlloc from XvShmPutImage.
 [15:56:07]  <jcristau> both with textured and overlay
 [16:03:39]  <jcristau> oh, killing xcompmgr fixes it...
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[16:07:15]  <DrNick> actually, yeah, in this case the VisibilityNotify event would have been sufficient, had Firefox done something useful with it
 [16:07:45]  <DrNick> but I've experienced similar phenomena when it's playing animations that are underneath other windows
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[16:28:37]  <DrNick> of course, the real problem is that Firefox+cairo is abysmally slow
 [16:29:45]  <cworth^ Cairo?
 [16:30:21]  <DrNick> I'm using firefox-3.0-0.beta2.18.nightly20080210.fc9 (which is the last version that installs without trouble on F8)
 [16:30:43]  <DrNick> and any sort of animation is visibly slower than Firefox 2.0
 [16:30:45]  <cworth^ There's not a lot that cairo is getting wrong these days for Firefox in X. Performance problems are much more likely to be in Firefox itself or in X itself.
 [16:31:00]  <DrNick> oh, it's X
 [16:31:22]  <DrNick> but my point was that versions of Firefox prior to this which did not use cairo for all rendering were much faster
 [16:31:36]  <ajax> strange, my experience is that ff3 is appreciably better
 [16:33:45]  <Zhenech^ not on a pentium-m running at 600mhz :/
 [16:34:01]  <fredrikh> performance probably depends more on the driver's ability to accelerate Xrender now
 [16:34:22]  <ajax> Zhenech: even on my old T42, which is like, pentium m at 1.3G or so, and a radeon m7.
 [16:34:40]  <ajax> but, sure.  it's probably slower in some denumerable set of configurations.
 [16:35:04]  <Zhenech^ X31, radeon m6 here :)
 [16:36:42]  <fredrikh> cworth: what's the status of the radial gradient implementation in pixman when dealing with gradients where one of the circles is partially outside the other?
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[16:42:05]  <cworth> fredrikh: I tried to make pixman do something reasonable, but it was hard to find any clear consensus among other systems on any sort of "standard" behavior.
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[16:42:49]  <cworth> fredrikh: So I also tried to leave this somewhat undefined in cairo, (I don't think I documented that case specifically, and I didn't add a test case enforcing a particular behavior).
 [16:44:04]  <fredrikh^ it seems CoreGraphics and PDF agree that the gradient turns into a cone
 [16:44:44]  <cworth^ The area "inside the cone" is easy. The math makes that quite easy.
 [16:44:51]  <fredrikh^ that behavior is also specified by HTML5 for the 2D graphics context in javascript
 [16:44:53]  <DrNick> and forcing EXA on does some decent things to performance
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[16:45:05]  <DrNick> 173184   50.1385  libc-2.7.so              Xorg                     memcpy
 [16:45:16]  <cworth> fredrikh: It's the area outside the cone that's less clear, (you've got a square root of a negative number there).
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[16:46:59]  <cworth> fredrikh: Cairo really wants all patterns to be "infinite" and to describe at least some color. So I tried what would happen with replacing the negative square root with 0. It ends up giving a sort of linear gradient in the "outside" regions.
 [16:47:27]  <cworth> One could still get the PDF "cone" by using a cairo gradient, but explicitly restricting the area in which it is drawn.
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[16:49:21]  <fredrikh> i guess that would correspond with EXTEND_NONE
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[16:55:31]  <fredrikh> cworth: this is pretty interesting: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/GraphicsImaging/Conceptual/drawingwithquartz2d/dq_shadings/chapter_9_section_4.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30001066-CH207-DontLinkElementID_39
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[17:02:20]  <cworth> fredrikh: Right. That's not what cairo currently does.
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[17:03:39]  <cworth> fredrikh: Here are some thoughts I wrote just before I did the implementation:
 [17:03:40]  <cworth> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/cairo/2007-February/009782.html
 [17:04:01]  <cworth> And just afterwards:
 [17:04:03]  <cworth> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/cairo/2007-March/009857.html
 [17:04:43]  <cworth> That second one has links to what cairo/pixman is currently generating.
 [17:08:31]  <jg> hi cworth
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[17:15:03]  <fredrikh> cworth: ah, that's pretty neat
 [17:16:50]  <fredrikh> i can't get cairo to do that here though, for me it just seems to fill the path with the last color stop when the inner circle is partially outside the outer
 [17:17:24]  <fredrikh> i wonder if i'm linking to an old version of cairo or pixman
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[17:53:54]  <jcristau> krh: any objection to http://people.freedesktop.org/~jcristau/0001-Don-t-set-DRI2-yes-if-we-can-t-find-dri2proto-or-lib.patch?
 [17:55:04]  <krh^ that looks good, thanks
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[18:22:00]  <cworth> fredrikh: It's possible we lost this in the switch to external pixman, (like I said we haven't been testing it).
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[18:28:41]  <fredrikh> cworth: no, it actually turned out to be a thinko on my part... i was filling a circle, and moved the center point of the first gradient circle outside the second
 [18:29:30]  <fredrikh> and that moved the gradient outside the path i was filling
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[19:27:57]  <cworth> fredrikh: Heh. OK.
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[23:43:37]  <tannewt> any input folks here?
 [23:44:53]  <tannewt> I wrote a uinput device that worked well with evdev 1.1 but does not work with 1.2
 [23:45:18]  <tannewt> its a device that is both a keyboard and a pointer except the pointer stuff does not work
 [23:46:05]  <Mercury> Urgh, not sure why it doesn't work.  I suggest just splitting it into two uinput devices for the moment.
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[23:49:26]  <tannewt> Mercury: I tried disabling the keyboard bits to make it a mouse but it still didn't work
 [23:49:58]  <tannewt> do you have experience with other uinput devices not working?
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----- [2008-04-23] -----
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[00:35:18]  <whot> Mercury: you still in charge of evdev?
 [00:36:05]  <tannewt> whot and Mercury: I fixed it, I wasn't sending SYN events on movement
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[00:48:02]  <DrNick> huh. EXA on R200 is a different flavor of painful compared to XAA, until you turn AccelDFS on
 [00:48:30]  <DrNick> OTOH, it seems to cause reliably reproducible BadAlloc errors in Firefox on a certain web page
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[02:28:11]  <jklehm> is it acceptable to open XExtensionPointers with XOpenDevice?  Is there a more proper way?  Wine  handles tablets as XExtensionDevice. I'd like to add support for the handling of tablets as XExtensionPointers as well.
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[02:47:23]  <whot> jklehm: yes, you can open any XExtension* with XOpenDevice
 [02:48:10]  <jklehm^ thanks!
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[03:28:44]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[09:33:57]  <Dr_Jakob> airlied: ping, Have you borked drmMap for intel in mainline?
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[10:00:01]  <Dr_Jakob> airlied: hmm looks like I might have jumped the gun, never should trust users.
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[11:09:09]  <MrCooper> hey jbarnes, how does the intel driver call the DRM_IOCTL_MODESET_CTL ioctl? Can't seem to find it
 [11:10:14]  <jbarnes> it doesn't yet
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[11:16:05]  <jcristau> ooh
 [11:16:06]  <jcristau>     glcore: build from mesa, dlopen from xorg
 [11:16:09]  <jcristau> \o/
 [11:17:43]  <Q-FUNK> :)
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[11:27:02]  <jbarnes> MrCooper: looking at adding it now... I think we want pre-modeset to be called when we turn off a pipe and post to be called right after we turn it on
 [11:28:07]  <MrCooper^ could it be done by the server rather than the driver?
 [11:28:34]  <MrCooper> hmm, the server probably doesn't know how the CRTCs map
 [11:30:49]  <krh> jbarnes: did that dvo patch get applied?
 [11:30:53]  * krh keeps nagging :)
 [11:31:09]  <jbarnes^ yeah, I pushed that at XDC, and a few bug fixes yesterday
 [11:31:29]  <krh^ oh doh, I was looking at master
 [11:31:35]  <jbarnes> heh
 [11:31:56]  <krh> hehe, there it is
 [11:32:01]  * krh gets out the i830 laptop
 [11:33:19]  <cjb> no, anything but the i830!
 [11:33:21]  * cjb fears.
 [11:33:31]  <Dr_Jakob> Hmm you guys werent talking about modesetting... well sort of.
 [11:34:02]  <Q-FUNK> jcristau: am I dreaming this or is 1.4.1 finally a valid candidate for Testing transition?
 [11:34:35]  <jcristau^ it is
 [11:34:46]  <Q-FUNK> \o/
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[12:01:21]  <jg> ping keithp
[12:01:41]  <keithp> ?
 [12:02:02]  <jg^ well, the second kidney was dealt with on Monday.  another 7 stones....
 [12:02:20]  <jg> unfortunately, one of them arrived a few hours before it would have been history.
 [12:03:13]  <jg> but at least recovery is, so far, way less obnoxious than for the first kidney.
 [12:03:40]  <jg> dunno why the big difference (other than making sure I was well rested prior to this surgery).
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[12:05:04]  <jklehm> are stones as fun as they say?
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[12:11:20]  <ajax> keithp: is i865 expected to have textured video?
 [12:12:06]  <keithp^ it would be nice, but no-one has written the code...
 [12:12:17]  <ajax> fair enough
 [12:12:31]  <ajax> is it expected to BadAlloc when you try to run totem with compiz enabled?
 [12:12:39]  <ajax> 'cause that's kind of lame
 [12:15:41]  <mjg59^ If you're on XAA and using textured video? Yes.
 [12:15:59]  <ajax> but i'm not using textured video, per question 1.
 [12:16:16]  <mjg59> Oh, I see
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[12:16:44]  <jg> jklehm: they are at least as bad as they say
 [12:17:50]  <ajax> things to fight after lunch.
 [12:20:07]  <jklehm> =( sorry man. Get well soon
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[17:36:23]  <fredrikh> cworth: i realized that you can actually get the pdf cone with the current code, if you draw the gradient twice and reverse the direction and the color stops
 [17:37:14]  <cworth^ Interesting.
 [17:37:26]  <fredrikh> http://ktown.kde.org/~fredrik/cone.png
 [17:37:50]  <cworth^ In my description I *thought* it should be possible to get the PDF effect, but I didn't realize it would require drawing it twice. That's for the "inside" of the cone I suppose?
 [17:38:00]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [17:38:46]  <cworth^ Ah, OK. So PDF is easy to get. What might be harder is Quartz' "extend" behavior.
 [17:39:03]  <cworth> I assume you're drawing with EXTEND_NONE there?
 [17:39:31]  <fredrikh> i used EXTEND_PAD actually, and masked out the shape
 [17:39:52]  <cworth> Oh, and then the Quartz extend behavior isn't hard. One simply needs to compute a sufficiently distant stop point and add a repeated color value there.
 [17:40:08]  <cworth> fredrikh: Ah, OK. That was the approach I had expected people to use.
 [17:41:07]  <cworth> It has the advantage of not getting "doubled" antialiasing, (darkening on the edges), if you do mask and happen to match the borders of the EXTEND_NONE gradient.
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[17:41:52]  <cworth> fredrikh: So I'm glad to see you're proving me right that cairo's behavior shouldn't be too limiting here, (even if it does require you to jump through some hoops).
 [17:41:59]  <cworth> What are you working on, by the way?
 [17:42:27]  <ajax> wow, synaptics is _utter_ loss.
 [17:42:51]  <ajax> shmconfig is incompatible with fast user switching
 [17:42:55]  <ajax> smrt
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[17:43:03]  <mjg59> ajax: Yeah, failure.
 [17:43:07]  <mjg59> Also, 0777
 [17:43:18]  <ajax> i was in the middle of addressing the 0777 thing
 [17:43:34]  <ajax> listen for consolekit to say the uid of who owns the session...
 [17:43:54]  <fredrikh> cworth: i was thinking of using this in khtml for the radial gradients.... Qt only supports SVG gradients with a focal point
 [17:43:57]  <ajax> but, if i only get one shm segment in the whole world, that's not really going to fly
 [17:44:16]  <mjg59> I'd guess you could stash the display number on the segment name
 [17:44:28]  <mjg59> And then patch userland to match
 [17:44:32]  <mjg59> But, uh.
 [17:44:43]  <ajax> that's a lot of userland, sadly.
 [17:44:50]  <mjg59> Maybe we should just implement input properties
 [17:45:13]  <ajax> although i guess i only care about synclient/syndaemon and gsynaptics, and kde people will be happy to implement it themselves three times.
 [17:45:30]  <ajax> yeah, this whole release thing though.
 [17:45:48]  <ajax> i doubt i can have i-p by f9
 [17:46:14]  <ajax> also: we need to fix xrandr to accept --props as a synonym for --properties
 [17:46:24]  <mjg59> --mad --props
 [17:46:47]  <cworth> fredrikh: Ah, I see. Is khtml different than webkit?
 [17:46:59]  <cworth> And is it currently using Qt for most drawing?
 [17:50:28]  <fredrikh^ this part of the code is different in khtml, because it doesn't have any abstractions for multiple backends
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[17:51:08]  <fredrikh> and it current draws everything with Qt, which is actually pretty similar to cairo in Qt4
 [17:52:39]  <cworth^ Yeah. I haven't heard of many people doing mixed Qt4/cairo drawing before. Should be interesting. :-)
 [17:57:15]  <fredrikh^ yeah... i'm wondering though if it isn't safer to copy the subset of the relevant pixman code into khtml though, in case the behavior changes in the future
 [17:58:10]  <fredrikh> since the exact behavior isn't specified at the moment
 [17:58:55]  <krh^ aw, I was hoping you were fixing poppler gradients :)
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[17:59:32]  <cworth> fredrikh: Oh, well, we generally specify behavior by just locking the current state forever. ;-)
 [17:59:41]  <cworth> I really don't expect it to change.
 [18:00:15]  <cworth> When I wrote the original code and asked for feedback, I just wanted to hear if my ideas weren't crazy. And so far, you're just confirming my ideas.
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[18:01:08]  <fredrikh> krh: heh
 [18:01:10]  <cworth^ Although, the only part I was really unclear on was the part outside what you are restricting your mask to. For what you are actually using, I'm quite certain about the way things currently work.
 [18:05:02]  <cworth> Oh, but maybe there's still an issue with the "overlapping" portion of the cone if you have translucence.
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[18:06:01]  <cworth> fredrikh: That's where the solution has two roots, (and one possible result is to solve for one, then blend with the other on top, which would look quite a bit like a translucent cone---but I don't think cairo currently does that).
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[18:07:56]  <fredrikh> cworth: well, that's actually what my code does: http://ktown.kde.org/~fredrik/cairo-cone.cpp
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[19:09:03]  <OgreBoy> is it normal to get a lockup (hard as far as the keyboard is concerned, but machine does a normal shutdown on power button) when running "glxinfo -i" ?
 [19:09:47]  <OgreBoy> with fedora 8, so maybe old news
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[23:18:43]  ***  alanc has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[01:33:05]  <cworth> Whoa! That bugzilla email interface even looks sane!
 [01:42:30]  <Ori_B> wait, since when did bugzilla have an email interface/
 [01:43:54]  <whot^ version 3 does it
 [01:44:07]  <Ori_B> neat
 [01:44:15]  <Ori_B> I'll have to look into it after I finish failing exams
 [01:58:26]  <cworth^ What I just saw go by was a straight reply, with "@status = RESOLVED" and "@resolution = FIXED". That's all I'll ever need I think.
 [01:59:21]  <Ori_B> sweet, I think
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[03:23:57]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:31:47]  <sridhar> hi all
 [05:31:51]  <sridhar> does anyone know xnee??
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[09:43:33]  <DaFlo> I can't find the Xlib Documentations
 [09:43:35]  <DaFlo> pease help me
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[09:48:11]  <ajax> yum install xorg-x11-docs ; evince /usr/share/doc/xorg-docs-*/hardcopy/X11/xlib.pdf
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[09:58:43]  <DaFlo> how to get the Display* of the Actual Window ?  Or how to create a Window? because I need this this parent
 [10:12:54]  <ajax> XCreateWindow() is you you create windows.
 [10:18:19]  * krh looks for fufutos
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[10:24:15]  <DaFlo> ajax,
[10:24:22]  <DaFlo> i mean Window XCreateWindow(display, parent, x, y, width, height, border_width, depth,
[10:24:24]  <DaFlo> the second parameter
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[10:29:53]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/x11perf/tree/x11perf.c
 [10:29:58]  <ajax> look for the word XCreateWIndow
 [10:30:04]  <DaFlo> thx
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[10:32:15]  <krh> hey Dodji
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[10:37:27]  <Dodji> krh, hey
 [10:37:36]  <Dodji> how are things ?
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[10:38:46]  <krh> Dodji: good, busy
 [10:39:09]  <krh> I'm moving this week and red hat is moving offices next week
 [10:39:41]  <Dodji^ ah, moving but staying in Boston ?
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[10:59:02]  <krh> Dodji: yeah, both me and red hat :)
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[10:59:39]  <Dodji> krh, :-)
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[15:14:39]  <jasonlife> Does the latest "intel" driver support "zaphod" mode?
 [15:15:42]  <jcristau> no
 [15:16:53]  <jasonlife> I wonder it has plan for it, like ati driver does support it again..
 [15:17:39]  <jcristau> i don't think that's very high on the todo list
 [15:18:24]  <jasonlife> I see.. thanks
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[15:21:19]  <idr> keithp, anholt: We still on for tomorrow?
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[16:07:57]  <anholt> idr: that's the plan
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[16:40:40]  <idr> anholt: Excellent.
 [16:40:58]  <idr> keithp, anholt: Where / when should I show up?
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[17:24:31]  <solarion> maybe someone's interested in my problem here
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[17:27:04]  <solarion> oh fine.  radeon hacker ping
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[17:41:06]  <solarion> color tiling being disabled apparently caused all sorts of trouble
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[17:44:50]  <solarion> being stuck at 1024x768 on two screens kind of sucks.  :(
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[17:46:40]  <solarion> what does color tiling do, exactly?
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[17:47:19]  <airlied> solarion: makes things fast.
 [17:47:29]  <airlied> it should work turned off though.
 [17:47:33]  <solarion> I was seeing a *lot* of corruption without it
 [17:47:43]  <airlied^ using ati git?
 [17:47:45]  <solarion> the virtual desktop I was using was huge, however
 [17:47:48]  <airlied^ try EXANoComposite
 [17:47:51]  <solarion^ ubuntu hardy
 [17:47:57]  <airlied^ hmm shouldn't be that.
 [17:48:11]  <airlied> whats the driver vrsion?
 [17:48:46]  <solarion> 1:1.6.0-1
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[17:49:05]  <solarion> sadly, I couldn't make a video of the funky
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[17:54:14]  <airlied> solarion: that isn't a -ati version number
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[17:56:53]  <solarion> compiled for 1.4.0.90, module version = 4.3.0
 [17:56:54]  <solarion> better?
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[17:58:52]  <airlied> solarion: not really :)
 [17:59:00]  * solarion scratches his head
 [17:59:00]  <airlied> I would expect something with a 6.x in it
 [17:59:48]  <solarion> that's xorg log output as the driver's loaded
 [18:00:05]  <solarion> X.Org X Server 1.4.0.90 probalby doesn't help you much further
 [18:00:40]  <solarion> maybe 6.8.0?
 [18:01:09]  <airlied> so the ati driver package is actually number 1.6.0 thats crazy.
 [18:01:21]  <airlied> I suppose it must be 6.8.0 if xrandr works.
 [18:01:27]  <airlied> I'd probably suggest trying git
 [18:01:35]  <airlied> as we had some issues with tiling at some point
 [18:01:38]  <airlied> that I fixed.
 [18:03:00]  * solarion has to go home or miss his ride
 [18:04:09]  <solarion> lemme tell you, though.  nv + 2-headed radeon can make for some fun times.  ;)
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[18:05:46]  <keithp> idr: we're thinking OPH at 8:30
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[18:08:40]  <idr> keithp: OPH?
 [18:08:56]  <idr> 8:30AM?
 [18:09:56]  <keithp^ original pancake house
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[18:09:59]  <keithp> breakfast
 [18:10:07]  <keithp> then back to my house for hacking
 [18:10:21]  <keithp> anholt and jbarnes are up for breakfast as well
 [18:10:23]  <krh> pancakes and hacking
 [18:10:32]  <jg> afternoon keithp
 [18:10:36]  <keithp> krh: it's a winning combination
 [18:10:46]  <krh^ it's can't go wrong
 [18:10:53]  <krh> s/'s//
 [18:10:58]  <jg> even more winning is to convince keithp to make pies....
 [18:10:59]  <keithp> krh: it often works better than beer and hacking at least
 [18:11:35]  <krh^ yeah, beer and hacking works well for the first two beers...
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[18:14:13]  <Q-FUNK> hehehe
 [18:15:14]  <jg> mmmm.... keithp pie for breakfast ;-).
 [18:15:18]  <idr> keithp: Okay.  That should be good.
 [18:15:33]  <idr> Since we only have one car, my wife /might/ join us for breakfast.
 [18:15:45]  <idr> She wasn't to impressed with OHP the last time we went.
 [18:16:09]  <idr> We've been spoiled by the Cadillac Cafe. :)
 [18:21:17]  <anholt^ I've got plenty higher on my list near me as well.
 [18:21:24]  <keithp+ yeah, it's vintage 50s
 [18:21:34]  <anholt> otoh, breakfast is a motivator to get myself up that hill
 [18:21:35]  <keithp> but, jbarnes is up for another omlette
 [18:21:43]  <keithp> anholt: such a nice hill
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[18:21:50]  <keithp> idr: decent ride from your place too
 [18:22:10]  <idr> bwah...
 [18:22:30]  <keithp^ jbarnes should have a car to get you from oph to my house
 [18:22:50]  <idr^ That would be good!
 [18:23:22]  <keithp> I could also bring a spare bike...
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[18:35:16]  <keithp> idr: just to check, that's 8601 SW 24th (which is 24th and Barbur), right?
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[19:25:46]  <idr> keithp: Oh!
 [19:25:55]  <idr> I was thinking of the wrong place!
 [19:26:18]  <idr> I was thinking of Tom's Pancake House in Beaverton...Cedar Hills & Canyon.
 [19:26:29]  <idr> OHP is *much* better.
 [19:29:37]  <idr> That means my wife *will* join us for breakfast...which solves my transportation problem.
 [19:29:45]  <idr> See you at 8:30!
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[20:05:05]  <bhundven> hello. Who should I notify about a correction in: http://xcb.freedesktop.org/tutorial/
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[20:07:02]  <bhundven> or should I just open a bug?
 [20:09:35]  <jcristau^ email xcb@lists.freedesktop.org
 [20:09:45]  <bhundven> thx!
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[21:00:41]  <fredrikh> cworth: ping
 [21:00:57]  <cworth^ pong
 [21:01:42]  <fredrikh^ i have a much improved version of the conical gradient demo: http://ktown.kde.org/~fredrik/cone.tar.bz2
 [21:02:23]  <cworth> keithp: Oh, for reference, the boys' pickup *was* there at 3:00 this afternoon. (Her son wasn't in class today---it was take-your-kid-to-work-day for his dad---which Cameron misinterpreted to mean she wouldn't be picking them up).
 [21:03:10]  <fredrikh^ i've noticed thought that the gradient is only drawn when the gradient moves from the larger to the smaller circle, when the smaller circle is fully contained inside the larger
 [21:03:13]  <fredrikh> though*
 [21:05:45]  <cworth^ For such a small demo, I'm sure having to install a *lot* of libraries. ;-)
 [21:06:42]  <cworth> Hmmm... that doesn't sound like correct behavior...
 [21:08:53]  <cworth> But hey, I even got it running now. :-)
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[21:10:08]  <cworth> fredrikh: Hmmm... it definitely doesn't have the "small changes in input result in small changes in output" behavior I wanted from cairo).
 [21:10:14]  <fredrikh> yeah, that's why i mentioned it... it fills it with the last color stop
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[21:10:35]  <cworth> fredrikh: If I have "draw cone" off, it's just doing straight cairo gradients?
 [21:10:38]  <fredrikh> and interestingly if the edge of the inner circle touches the outer, it fills it with the first color stop
 [21:11:02]  <fredrikh> yeah, it just fills the rect with the "top" gradient
 [21:11:42]  <fredrikh> when it's checked it draws it twice, and fills a path
 [21:12:07]  <cworth^ Yeah, parts of this look buggy to me.
 [21:13:18]  <cworth> But it doesn't seem to behave any differently with cairo 1.4.0. So this looks like old bugs.
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[21:15:09]  <cworth> fredrikh: Yes. I see "reverse" being wrong when they exactly touch, and the non-reverse case wrong whenver the smaller circle is wholly contained by the larger circle.
 [21:17:31]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [21:22:06]  <fredrikh> actually when they exactly touch the output is the same for me regardless of whether reverse is checked
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[22:22:55]  <cworth> fredrikh: Ah, yes. Good point.
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[00:41:45]  <keithp> cworth: but, you were there as well anyway.
 [00:42:53]  <cworth^ Yeah, it worked out fine. It would have only been a shame if we had had to cut anything short today, but it all worked out.
 [00:43:40]  <cworth> I guess I just wanted to make it clear that neither Stacy nor her friend were as flaky as I may have made them appear today. :-)
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[00:44:26]  <keithp> I had assumed some level of mis-communication
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[01:47:57]  <dberkholz> anyone else hate scons?
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[05:07:57]  <tjaalton> how could I wake up an X session that is in powersave mode? xset dpms force on doesn't work, since X itself doesn't wake up
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[05:10:07]  <tjaalton> so I'd need to send some keyboard event etc to wake up the session
 [05:12:56]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:13:24]  <jcristau> tjaalton: create an uinput device, get it hotplugged, and send stuff to it? ;)
 [05:14:33]  <tjaalton^ I'm root, I can do anything.. and something simple too if possible :)
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[08:01:31]  <mib_pxrnq8mb> hi anyone know xnee ???
 [08:01:35]  <mib_pxrnq8mb> ???
 [08:01:37]  <mib_pxrnq8mb> hello??
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[08:15:24]  <mib_yqu60lsl> does any one know xnee??
 [08:15:25]  <mib_yqu60lsl> hello
 [08:15:28]  <mib_yqu60lsl> plz help me buddies
 [08:20:35]  <dr-xorg> no idea what that is, sorry ...
 [08:21:42]  <mib_yqu60lsl> its an event emulator
 [08:22:05]  <mib_yqu60lsl> iam developing a framework to analyze xserver events
 [08:22:11]  <mib_yqu60lsl> can anyone help
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[08:37:26]  <tjaalton> heh, xnee might do what I asked before.. talk about good timing :)
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[08:52:43]  <Dr_Jakob> What machine is the git repos locaded on?
 [08:53:01]  <jcristau^ kemper
 [08:53:14]  <Dr_Jakob^ do normal users have access to it?
 [08:53:17]  <jcristau> no
 [08:53:24]  <Dr_Jakob> normal devs
 [08:53:35]  <Dr_Jakob> right, drm repo is slightly fubared
 [08:53:35]  <jcristau> you have read only access on annarchy though
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[08:57:14]  <Dr_Jakob> is there any guide to put up a private/public repo?
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[10:40:22]  <ajax> regarding eamon's comment at xdc about xselinux needing a new name, i propose "flax"
 [10:41:14]  <Dr_Jakob^ you have access to the git repos right?
 [10:41:33]  <Dr_Jakob> (admin)
 [10:41:36]  <ajax> yeah
 [10:41:49]  <Dr_Jakob^ the drm git repo is borked
 [10:41:55]  <ajax> how?
 [10:42:12]  <Dr_Jakob> push went wrong, you can't pull from it anymore
 [10:42:22]  <Dr_Jakob> ajax: just added youtube as a factor into
 [10:42:33]  <Dr_Jakob> Gah wrong selection
 [10:42:37]  <Dr_Jakob> ajax: http://www.mail-archive.com/dri-devel%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg34736.html
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[10:42:55]  <ajax> oh lovely.
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[10:45:03]  <ajax> yeah, working on it.
 [10:45:48]  <Dr_Jakob^ thanks!
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[10:47:06]  <ajax> that's just bizarre.
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[10:50:34]  <Dr_Jakob> ajax: oh what has happend?
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[10:54:33]  <ajax> it looks like git-daemon has just lost its little mind
 [10:54:56]  <Dr_Jakob> mad daemon on the loose?
 [10:54:59]  <ajax> if i log into kemper, i can clone just fine
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[10:55:41]  <Dr_Jakob> ajax: odd, perm problems?
 [10:56:38]  <ajax> likewise it works on annarchy.  blah.
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[11:19:19]  <ajax> bah.
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[11:23:12]  <ajax> yeah, whatever thomas did there, he did it really wrong.
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[11:31:58]  <ajax> Dr_Jakob: alright, fixed the repo to be usable again, but i had to nuke thomas' last changes to modesetting-101 to do so.
 [11:32:14]  <Dr_Jakob^ okay thanks
 [11:32:40]  <ajax> it looked like it really was missing some objects that presumably only existed on his machine and just didn't get pushed somehow
 [11:32:43]  <Dr_Jakob^ you da man
 [11:32:56]  <ajax> but, probably easier to just redo the rebase
 [11:33:08]  <Dr_Jakob^ okay strange, how is the space on that machine?
 [11:33:30]  <ajax> 70G free on that disk
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[11:33:40]  <Dr_Jakob> hmm right...
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[11:34:56]  <ajax> yeah, that was my first thought too
 [11:35:08]  <ajax> but it's got tons of disk and memory free
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[13:45:34]  <stillunknown2> What proves libGLcore.so?
 [13:46:25]  <stillunknown2> provides i meant
 [13:46:34]  <ajax> the server does.
 [13:48:11]  <stillunknown2> I see some changes, from 2 days ago.
 [13:48:19]  <stillunknown2> (in xserver tree)
 [13:49:07]  <stillunknown2> I wonder what is going wrong, as i'm missing it.
 [13:49:16]  <ajax> (II) NV(0): LVDS native size 738x414
 [13:49:19]  <ajax> nice one.
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[13:52:20]  <stillunknown2> ajax: The way they get the lvds mode is a bit fragile imo.
 [13:53:19]  <stillunknown2> Did you have an external monitor connected at boot?
 [13:53:28]  <stillunknown2> (just out of curiosity)
 [13:54:10]  <ajax> i didn't, the bug reporter did.
 [13:54:28]  <ajax> and yes, reading back whatever values happen to be in some timing registers somewhere is perhaps not the most reliable thing ever
 [13:55:34]  <stillunknown2> In fact it just takes the first crtc to be active iirc.
 [13:56:19]  <stillunknown2> It's one of the more ugly parts of the driver.
 [13:58:04]  <stillunknown2> If you're lucky aaronp might fix it properly.
 [14:00:17]  <stillunknown2> ajax: So you actually dared to look at the code?
 [14:00:28]  <ajax> dude, it's my day job
 [14:00:32]  <ajax> i can't have fear
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[14:02:04]  <stillunknown2> ajax: Hopefully you realize that those mode field mean something else completely?
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[14:04:32]  <stillunknown> I wonder why glcore is a seperate build target for mesa, quite annoying.
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[15:42:14]  <aaronp> stillunknown: Yeah, that code sucks, I know.
 [15:42:53]  <stillunknown> It's fragile, too fragile.
 [15:45:39]  <stillunknown> aaronp: Any chance to look at nv bugs in the near future?
 [15:49:56]  <rvalles> I found real cause of unstability (which also happens with the 8600... soon I'll have my trusty 7800gs back :D)
 [15:50:58]  <rvalles> I managed to find a forum thread about a person with the same problem as I in both windows and linux and all... dual channel mem with this board -> crap (it'd work fine but the controller will hang from time to time)
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[16:16:22]  <stillunknown> Does anyone know what's required to make gdm do a warm restart, eg run out of clients, but not kill X, instead return to gdm.
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[19:32:29]  <TMM> keithp: hey! are you here by any chance?
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[20:11:34]  <anholt> not really.  I'm busy crashing his laptop.
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[20:29:52]  <TMM> anholt: a noble goal
 [20:31:01]  <TMM> any chance I could bother you with some intel questions? should you have the time, of course
 [20:35:16]  <anholt> don't ask to ask, just ask.
 [20:38:24]  <TMM^ my apologies. I've got a Intel Corporation 82G35 Express Integrated Graphics Controller and I'm trying to get it to work in dual-head setup. The second screen, however remains blank. I've tried intel 2.2.1 and 2.3.0. When booting with just the second screen attached, it becomes blank as soon as X starts as well. The second screen is connected through TMDS-1, on a HDMI to DVI converter
 [20:38:40]  <TMM> the screen shows output during boot though
 [20:38:50]  <TMM> it just 'dies' as soon as X starts
 [20:39:39]  <anholt> we haven't ever tested G35 with HDMI ourselves, but others have had it working.
 [20:39:55]  <anholt> we've only used separate sdvo hdmi cards, which have worked.
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[20:45:49]  <TMM> hmm
 [20:45:53]  <TMM> where does that leave me?
 [20:46:02]  <TMM> get a sdvo card? :)
 [20:47:36]  <TMM> I've got one output connected through VGA and another one throug HDMI>DVI, is that an uncommon setup?
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[20:49:29]  <TMM> if it would help, I would be more than willing to sponsor someone the same motherboard that I have to get his working, I got this specific intel setup because of the open-source intel drivers, I'll be damned before I get an ATI or something :)
 [20:51:44]  <TMM> anholt: this is really frustrating because it should just work(are) :-/
 [20:53:07]  <anholt> you have an sdvo chip on board. they also come on cards that slot in to the x16 pcie slot.
 [20:53:37]  <TMM^ how do I go about debugging this?
 [20:54:20]  <anholt> enable ModeDebug option (see intel(4)), compare the sdvo and register state in the console to after X starts up.
 [20:54:21]  <TMM^ xrandr --output TMDS-1 --off does indeed turn off the screen, and --auto turns it back on (the led changes color) but that's pretty much it. I don't know where to start looking
 [20:54:52]  <anholt^ you said that it also fails with only the hdmi one plugged in.  if you're debugging, you really want to minimize complexity (run with 1 monitor)
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[20:55:46]  <TMM> anholt: which one?
 [20:55:51]  <anholt> the failing one.
 [20:56:13]  <TMM> OK. I'
 [20:56:33]  <TMM> ll try. I hope to at least get enough info to file a proper bugreport\
 [20:56:54]  <TMM> I'm not entirely sure I'm up to the task of fixing this myself
[20:58:17]  <TMM> anholt: so, I add this to my xorg.conf's driver section, unplug the VGA, restart X and note the logfile?
 [20:59:05]  <TMM> I hope I'm not bothering you
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[21:07:15]  <TMM> anholt: is this significant? (EE) intel(0): Unable to write to SDVOCTRL_E for SDVOB Slave 0x70
 [21:07:26]  <anholt> maybe, maybe not.
 [21:08:43]  <TMM^
[21:08:47]  <TMM> clear as mud :)
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[21:14:10]  <TMM> anholt: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15370#c9 <--- that does not sound hopeful
 [21:17:58]  <anholt^ might help, might not.
 [21:18:12]  <anholt> anyway, it's been a busy day and I need to get home
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[22:23:47]  <sophiemg> hola?
 [22:24:04]  <sophiemg> necesito ayuda
 [22:24:08]  <sophiemg> por favor
 [22:24:13]  <sophiemg> :(
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[04:32:08]  <arekm> "the TTM and modesetting stuff is still on hold" :-/
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[05:50:49]  <hachi> I think there's something special about friday that makes my X server lock up
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[06:12:26]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[10:46:41]  <cjb> hmph, xcb-proto depends on python >= 2.5 now?
 [10:46:48]  <cjb> that's a new dependency for X.
 [10:52:23]  <Amaranth> does it use python to convert the xml or something?
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[13:24:01]  <mattst88> where is xf86ReadPciBios defined?
 [13:26:39]  <ajax> ctags -R ; vim -t xf86ReadPciBios
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[13:28:48]  <stillunknown> I never managed to properly generate the tag database, it never finds anything.
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[13:30:05]  <OgreBoy> and that symbol went away some time ago, I think?
 [13:30:49]  <stillunknown> It must have, since exaComposite is found.
 [13:30:59]  <stillunknown> Probably during pci-rework.
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[14:00:59]  <mattst88> looks like xserver from git doesn't even build on alpha now >:(
 [14:02:02]  <stillunknown> linux?
 [14:03:39]  <Q-FUNK> alpha base is gone.  call commander Kbmnig!
 [14:06:43]  <mattst88> stillunknown, yes
 [14:06:52]  <mattst88> Q-FUNK, what?
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[14:38:42]  <TMM> Could someone help me with the following? My dual-head setup with the intel driver on a G35 chipset. On head is connected through VGA, the other through a HDMI->DVI converter. As soon as the intel driver kicks in, the monitor turns black, and I am unable to even get the on screen menu to display, suggesting a problem with the mode. I have found several bugreports on the issue on the freedesktop bugtracker, but I have a different question: The i83
 [14:38:42]  <TMM> 0_sdvo.c suggests that there are certain configurations which will not work with the current code, I was wondering how I can see how my pipes are connected and to what, or how the SDVO stuff is wired on my motherboard
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[17:30:23]  <DrNick> #14 0x000000362d021abe in XCreatePixmap (dpy=0x63d2d0, d=150, width=10000, height=30, depth=32) at CrPixmap.c:60 -- fails with radeon EXA, apparently works with radeon XAA
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[20:45:00]  <mattst88> is there a person who is in charge of making sure X works on alpha?
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[22:33:05]  <airlied> mattst88: its not X problem its kernel
 [22:33:27]  <airlied> make /sys rom files work and X will work.
 [22:33:38]  <mattst88> good lord, are you serious? :P
 [22:33:52]  <mattst88> it's not radeon[hd], it's X, now it's not X, it's the kernel
 [22:34:11]  <mattst88> any advice how to proceed?
 [22:34:13]  <airlied> if you are running all new bits, X will try and use the kernel's rom access method via /sys
 [22:34:25]  <airlied> go into /sys, without X running..
 [22:34:50]  <airlied> /sys/bus/pci/devices/<pciid>
 [22:34:53]  <airlied> echo 1 > enable
 [22:34:54]  <airlied> echo 1 > rom
 [22:35:00]  <mattst88> the alpha isn't on currently, and takes a few minutes to boot
 [22:35:01]  <airlied> cat rom > /tmp/rom
 [22:35:08]  <airlied> should in theory give the BIOS rom in /tmp
 [22:35:28]  <airlied> if it doesn't work you need to find the alpha arch maintainer and annoy them and lkml
 [22:35:43]  <mattst88> soren, doing that should give me a chance to get X/radeon working?
 [22:35:56]  <mattst88> soren? what kind of typo was that
 [22:36:05]  <mattst88> so then*
 [22:36:06]  <airlied^ well all the logs you've shown are where the rom is readable
 [22:36:12]  <airlied> so we can't set the card up..
 [22:36:34]  <airlied> my only other worry is if alpha has some other strange PCI restrictions..
 [22:36:36]  <mattst88> readable or unreadable?
 [22:36:42]  <airlied> unreadable..
 [22:37:03]  <airlied> I know parisc can't deal with large aperture GPUs..
 [22:37:11]  <airlied> as PCI window is too small to address it all.
 [22:37:22]  <airlied> also Alpha's used to have some crap about sparse memory..
 [22:37:27]  <airlied> but I'm not 100% sure..
 [22:37:31]  <airlied> but step one is to get the rom files working.
 [22:37:52]  <mattst88> OK, thank you very much for the insight
 [22:38:14]  <mattst88> could I ask you a question about your career/education?
 [22:42:09]  <mattst88> I'm getting a degree in physics, with the intention to get a masters degree in ECE afterwards.
 [22:42:52]  <mattst88> as far as a job at red hat or similar goes, is a masters degree worth significantly more than a standard ECE degree?
 [22:45:26]  <airlied^ degree didn't matter freom what I can see.. mainly lots of Linux expereince helped me.
 [22:46:28]  <mattst88> what Linux experience did you have did you have when you were 20 (my age)?
 [22:48:34]  <airlied^ I had written pam_smb/pam_ncp projects, and admin boxes for about 100 ppl.
 [22:49:08]  <airlied> but Linux had only been going about 3-4 years at that point.
 [22:49:14]  <airlied> maybe 5..
 [22:49:22]  <mattst88> yeah, that's true
 [22:50:18]  <airlied> my masters was all research, and I was working for the Uni on some EU projects at the time.
 [22:50:47]  <airlied> so I had a lot of time to hack on other things, so I did linux/mips and linux/vax work during that time.
 [22:51:27]  <airlied> but RH hired me because I've been working on graphics stuff for 4 years before they hired me.
 [22:51:31]  <airlied> for another company..
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[22:53:10]  <airlied> but really experience matters a lot, like mjg59 is a phd in genetics, and we hired him :)
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[22:54:03]  <mattst88> genetics!
 [22:54:26]  <airlied> bbl.
 [22:54:47]  <mattst88> thanks for the information about the alpha and about the experience :)
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[22:56:23]  <DrNick> so, should X be returning BadAlloc if a client calls XCreatePixmap with a size larger than the card's maximum texture width/height?
 [22:56:28]  <DrNick> because EXA does and XAA doesn't
 [22:57:28]  <DrNick> and then Firefox aborts
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[01:40:33]  <Amaranth> DrNick: Shouldn't it just fallback to software for such pixmaps?
 [01:40:42]  <DrNick> obviously, yes
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[05:37:41]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[07:58:10]  * Q-FUNK still doesn't get why LTSP in Ubuntu/Hardy works with any "amd" variant but fails with a "geode" (with or without the symbolic link to amd_drv.so).
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[09:38:25]  <TMM> anholt: hi! :) I was reading the intel GPU pdfs and I was wondering if I am correct in assuming that the HDMI stuff is entirely non-implemented in the current intel driver?
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[10:03:11]  <TMM> is there a mailing list for the intel driver?
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[10:06:51]  <TMM> Does anyone know if I get an ADD2 card, if I'll be able to force it to connect to a specific pipe of my intel card? I'm kind of worried that if I add a card it'll try and clone pipe-A, and then I'll still have the exact same problems I'm having now :)
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[10:24:58]  <edsiper> I need  to get in touch with some Xephyr developer... is any one around here ?
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[12:46:30]  <stillunknown> pScrn->currentMode, what is the meaning of that in randr-1.2 context?
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[12:59:25]  <anholt> TMM: you have the G35, right?  you don't have the HDMI described in the pdfs.
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[13:05:08]  <TMM> anholt: ow, what do I have then?
[13:06:40]  <anholt> you have an sdvo hdmi chip
 [13:08:45]  <TMM^ ow... why doesn't it work then? for sdvo hdmi or dvi shouldn't matter right? or am I completely missing the point? :)
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[13:30:23]  <anholt> hdmi has other signaling options, so they're not quite the same.
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[13:37:49]  <TMM> anholt: so, I just get the wrong resolution and/or refresh rate on my hdmi port?
 [13:38:32]  <TMM> if you have any suggestion as to where I might start digging in docs and/or code, it would be greatly appreciated! :D
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[13:43:19]  <anholt> if you have working console, use the register dumping provided by i830_debug.c and i830_sdvo.c to compare the state between working and not working
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[13:49:16]  <TMM> anholt: so, I switch to a vt, do the dump (with both heads working) then switch to X, do the dump again and compare regs?
 [13:55:20]  <anholt> sure
 [14:00:26]  <TMM^ I'll do that right away
 [14:09:27]  <TMM> how ironic, the debug tool won't compile :)
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[14:24:21]  <TMM> anholt: is there already a tool to do the SDVO dumping? or will I have to construct my own using the code in i830_sdvo.c ?
 [14:25:50]  <TMM> as far as I can see (but I have to admit, I don't know all that much about how the regs should look) the regdump looks correct, it sets up the second pipe for the correct resolution and configures it for dvo.
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[14:29:21]  <TMM> anholt: yes, as far as I can see both pipes get configured identically, which is what you'd expect, right?
 [14:29:37]  <anholt^ there's sdvo register dumping already in i830_sdvo.c.  All you'd have to do is call it from the driver whenever you want to dump (enter/leavevt)
 [14:30:17]  <anholt> the pipe configuration is likely to be correct, while the sdvo setup is most likely to be incorrect.
 [14:30:45]  <TMM^ when I switch from X to vt, the console no longer works, I think it'll be hard to get any proper data out of it
 [14:30:56]  <anholt> ok, so dump at server startup.
 [14:31:44]  <TMM^ OK, I'll try. My xorg code foo isn't totally up to snuff, but I'm sure I'll figure it out :)
 [14:33:01]  <TMM> I stick it in I830PreInit ?
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[14:46:50]  <TMM> anholt: well, I've managed to segv my x server several times :) I think I'm missing something
 [14:47:27]  <TMM> I use i830_sdvo_dump_device(), right?
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[21:33:55]  <edsiper> I need  to get in touch with some Xephyr developer... is any one around here ?
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[21:44:53]  <edsiper> I'm trying to "reparent" Xephyr using the -parent argument and it works, but all programs loaded on this Xephyr instance can't get the keyboard events... any tips ?
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[23:30:13]  <edsiper> what's the right mailing list in order to ask a problem related with Xephyr ?
 [23:34:37]  <airlied^ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org
 [23:34:46]  <edsiper^ thanks
 [23:37:16]  <whot> airlied: btw. is xorg@ locked up or am I the only one not getting emails?
 [23:38:22]  <airlied^ not sure last one I have is from 2 days ago
 [23:39:09]  <whot^ same with me. but I didn't get a number of bugzilla emails
 [23:41:50]  <airlied> hmm nothing obvious in mailq on gabe but I'm not priv to do anything more.
 [23:42:14]  <whot> fair enough. thx
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[23:54:02]  <edsiper> hm, I just sent an email and it still don't arrive to the list..
 [23:56:00]  <airlied> keithp, anholt : you guys able to unclog mailman, it seems to be stuck on xorg list
 [23:56:28]  <keithp^ sigh.
[23:57:28]  <keithp> I poked it (restarting mailman)
 [23:57:32]  <keithp> we'll see how it goes
 [23:59:08]  <keithp> uh-oh
 [23:59:15]  <keithp> IncomingRunning is dying
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----- [2008-04-28] -----
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[00:45:53]  <dcbw> airlied: around?
 [00:45:56]  <dcbw> agd5f: ping
 [00:46:16]  <agd5f^ pingish
 [00:47:18]  <dcbw^ hey; benh was ranting about LVDS_GEN_CTRL on M7 this past week.  he figured the only way to sort out the mess was to get some docs from AMD/ATI on the values and sequences that you have to poke those values into the register.  Just wanted to see if there was anything you could dig up about that
 [00:47:40]  <dcbw> my bloom issue definitely happens when doing the first write to LVDS_GEN_CTRL by the way
 [00:47:48]  <benh+ heh
 [00:48:03]  <benh> yeah, from experience, you have to follow a carefully timed sequence of event to turn panels on/off
 [00:48:06]  <dcbw+ doesn't happen on my T42 with same chipset and same x driver :)
 [00:48:07]  <agd5f> benh: hey
 [00:48:13]  <dcbw^ but does on hte iBook of course
 [00:48:30]  <agd5f> pc
 [00:48:36]  <benh^ what we used to have there -somewhat- worked with bloom more often on some models than others but I never got it totally reliably
 [00:48:37]  <agd5f> 's seem more forgiving. 
[00:48:47]  <benh^ could be the type of panel used too...
 [00:50:00]  <agd5f^ on the pc's most of the delays are in the lvds bios tables.  I can probably dig up the proper sequence.  on the macs...i dunno
 [00:50:20]  <benh^ on the mac they probably are hard wired in the driver for each model :-(
 [00:50:28]  <agd5f^ yup
 [00:50:33]  <agd5f> they are
 [00:50:46]  <benh^ the good news is that ATI has the source for the mac drivers
 [00:50:53]  <benh> so it might be possible to extract the tables
 [00:51:05]  <benh> and do something based on the OF "name" of the card or similar
 [00:51:25]  <benh> in the early days, the ATI "mac" folks used to help quite a bit ... they gave me the D2 code for M6...M9 for example
 [00:51:54]  <agd5f^ I'll ask around.  do you remember who you talked to?
 [00:52:08]  <benh> nope
 [00:52:23]  <benh> it might be somewhere in my old backup of mail archives but it was a long time ago
 [00:52:28]  <benh> will take a while to find out if possible at all
 [00:53:02]  <agd5f> I know a couple of the mac folks, but, I'm not sure how easy it will be to dig this stuff up on the old chips
 [00:53:32]  <dcbw> benh: fwiw, the bloom happens when either the screensaver or gnome-power-manager kick in and poke the panel and then it doesn't go away
 [00:53:55]  <dcbw> so it doesn't just happen when X first starts and pokes the panel, but also later when other stuff kicks in
 [00:54:29]  <agd5f^ does the panel ever go off or does it just stay blooming when dpms turns it off?
 [00:54:36]  <dcbw^ stays blooming
 [00:55:00]  <dcbw> any good way to trigger dpms and verify that though?
 [00:55:27]  <agd5f^ sleep 5; xset dpms force off
 [00:56:09]  <dcbw^ yeah, stays blooming
 [00:56:29]  <benh+ well, easier for you than for me for sure :-)
 [00:56:43]  <agd5f^ heh :)
 [00:57:00]  <benh^ the problem dcbw is having could be just one little thing.. but there is a deeper problem still
 [00:57:20]  <benh> for example, my rv350 laptop always had a fairly regular problem where the panel wouldn't sync properly
 [00:57:29]  <benh> would have to turn it off/on/off/on until it syncs regulary
 [00:57:33]  <benh> etc...
 [00:57:42]  <benh> also some panels seem to have inverted values for at least the backlight modulation
 [00:57:49]  <benh> and I -think- also BLON
 [00:58:25]  <agd5f^ I think some oems don't even use the backlight modulation, but use gpio's instead for brightness
 [00:58:55]  <benh^ apple use the modulation
 [00:59:02]  <benh> but on some stuff, it seems like it's inverted
 [00:59:14]  <benh> like there's a not gate on the out or so
 [00:59:32]  <benh> they don't use the modulation on some very old models but that's irrelevant
 [00:59:40]  <agd5f> I wouldn't put it past apple...
 [01:00:17]  <agd5f> the r128's were even more sensitive
 [01:00:36]  <keithp> airlied: I appear to have managed to restart mailman
 [01:02:40]  <agd5f> benh: IIRC, DIGON and BLON with the tweaky bits
 [01:02:45]  <agd5f> s/with/were/
 [01:03:01]  <benh> they use the modulation on r128
 [01:03:08]  <benh> they don't use it on really old m64's
 [01:03:11]  <airlied> keithp: woot..
 [01:03:20]  <benh> (talking only about laptops using mobility chips here of course)
 [01:03:27]  <agd5f> yup
 [01:03:38]  <benh^ yeah, there may be some other thing related to playing with LVDS_ON and LVDS_EN too
 [01:04:10]  <keithp> airlied: we return you to your regularly scheduled mailbox
 [01:04:27]  * airlied ponders XaaNoScanlineCPUToScreenColorExpandFill
 [01:04:39]  <airlied> it fixes some font rendering in openoffice on nv.
 [01:04:48]  <agd5f> benh: I'll see what I can dig up, but I'm not sure how soon I can get to it
 [01:04:52]  <keithp> airlied: martian
 [01:05:22]  <keithp> care to ponder the delights of graphics object management for a few minutes?
 [01:05:29]  <airlied^ as ever :)
 [01:05:38]  <keithp> I figured as much
 [01:05:54]  <keithp> so, on Intel chips, we've got 4 cache domains
 [01:06:31]  <keithp> when submitting a batch buffer, the big question for each buffer in the set is 'what cache domain contains dirty bits' and 'which cache domains are we going to use this time'
 [01:07:04]  <keithp> if we're going to load bits through a different domain than one which currently has dirty cache lines, we need to do something
 [01:07:36]  <airlied> yup you'd be needing some sort of sync between domains.
 [01:07:39]  <keithp> So, the current theory is that each batch buffer operation needs to know which cache domains will be read from and which cache domain will be left dirty
 [01:08:00]  <keithp> seems like a couple of bitmasks per buffer will suffice
 [01:08:17]  <airlied> so you can know which domain each buffer is currently in and where the dirt for it will end up.
 [01:08:30]  <keithp> buffers aren't really in cache domains
 [01:08:35]  <airlied> what are the 4? CPU, GPU, texture, render?
 [01:08:48]  <keithp> CPU, instruction, texture, render
 [01:08:55]  <keithp> render is shared between 2d/3d
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[01:09:21]  <keithp> it's unlikely you'l want to go from render to instruction, but you never know :-)
 [01:09:37]  <airlied> I'm assuming only the kernel will know this info..
 [01:09:48]  <airlied> or is there some reason for userspace to ever care?
 [01:09:49]  <keithp> a single batch buffer may use multiple domains for reading, but may only use one domain for writing
 [01:10:04]  <keithp> userspace needs to tell use which domains each buffer will use
 [01:10:29]  <airlied> so batchbuffer will always be a read from instruction?
 [01:10:32]  <keithp> we can't tell if a rendering buffer is being read through the texture or render cache unless userspace tells us
 [01:10:52]  <keithp> uh, no, instructions are GPU programs
 [01:11:08]  <keithp> sounds like '5' cache domains -)
 [01:11:40]  <airlied> well I suppose batchbuffers are probably not cached by the GPU so much that matters.
 [01:11:51]  <keithp> it matters a bit -- you have to flush any CPU caches
 [01:11:59]  <airlied> yup..
 [01:12:04]  <keithp> although we'll be using WC most likely
 [01:12:05]  <keithp> or movnti
 [01:12:36]  <keithp> so, the benefit here is that GPU->GPU domain transfers are all in-ring, and hence require no CPU synchronization
 [01:12:41]  <airlied> I suppose we could work out the texture/render by snooping the batchbuffer, but it might be nicer if userspace just told us.
 [01:12:52]  <keithp> userspace will tell us
 [01:12:54]  <keithp> it knows
 [01:13:15]  <benh> agd5f: it waited that long, it can wait a few more weeks :-)
 [01:13:19]  <keithp> I'm not going to try to decode the PS program, which has the ability to use arbitrary data
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[01:14:02]  <keithp> we do require that data end up in only one write domain though
 [01:14:08]  <keithp> otherwise our brains would explode
 [01:14:33]  <DrNick> what happens if userspace lies?
 [01:14:45]  <keithp^ then userspace gets incorrect drawing, or a hung GPU
 [01:15:06]  <DrNick> can you unhang the GPU?
 [01:15:11]  <airlied> keithp: what happens if we have a render to texture + read in one batchbuffer?
 [01:15:15]  <keithp> DrNick: we're trying to figure out how, but not yet
 [01:15:27]  <keithp> airlied: then that batchbuffer would have a flush inside
 [01:15:31]  <DrNick> what's a hung GPU do to the rest of the system?
 [01:15:50]  <keithp^ with 9xx, the system keeps running. with 8xx, the system locks up
 [01:15:58]  <DrNick> well, that's not good
 [01:16:00]  <keithp^ don't do that.
 [01:16:15]  <keithp> indeed. we don't live in a perfect world yet
 [01:16:46]  <keithp> I can reset the GPU by hitting the PCI reset pins at least. That sometimes even works.
 [01:17:09]  <keithp> maybe someday we'll figure out how to unwedge it without losing all of its state
 [01:17:36]  <keithp> airlied: so, the API only cares about the initial and final states of the caches; a batchbuffer is free to do whatever it likes inside
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[01:17:53]  <airlied> keithp: what about two userspaces sharing buffer?
 [01:18:01]  <airlied> how do they know what the other one did?
 [01:18:12]  <keithp^ state is tracked in the kernel
 [01:18:21]  <keithp> userspace just tells the kernel what each batchbuffer does
 [01:18:27]  <keithp> We assume that batchbuffers execute atomically
 [01:18:52]  <airlied^ yeah I think we need multi-batchbuffer atomicity as an aside.
 [01:19:01]  <airlied> or at least life would be easier if we had it ..
 [01:19:15]  <keithp> could be
 [01:19:34]  <keithp> we briefly talked about a 'poly superioctl' which would let you pass multiple batchbuffers down to the kernel
 [01:19:59]  <keithp> recall that one very important goal is to eliminate user-space locking...
 [01:20:11]  <airlied^ yeah thats why we need it.
 [01:20:24]  <keithp> poly superioctl is a fairly easy extension then
 [01:21:29]  <keithp> airlied: although, we'll be pushing to get contexts running in the intel driver, which would make some of that unnecessary
 [01:21:43]  <keithp> no need to re-init the hardware in each batch buffer then
 [01:22:06]  <keithp> airlied: so, any thoughts on how this 'domain' stuff would work with radeon?
 [01:22:37]  <keithp> Could you use that to migrate objects into vram as needed?
 [01:23:16]  <airlied^ hmm possibly... if we knew the CPU didn't care..
 [01:23:30]  <airlied> I'm trying to think what sorta cache domains we would have,
 [01:23:32]  <keithp> the batchbuffer would tell you if the CPU was going to be reading
 [01:23:34]  <airlied> probably similiar enough..
 [01:23:47]  <keithp> of course, the actual cache domains would be driver-specific
 [01:24:06]  <keithp> although, we'd make domain 0 be 'CPU' probably?
 [01:24:20]  <airlied^ yeah may as well for that case..
 [01:24:40]  <airlied> so the kernel would do all the cache flushes when it needed them in the ring?
 [01:24:56]  <keithp^ for GPU->GPU transfers, the flush would go in-ring
 [01:25:15]  <keithp> for other transfers, the kernel might have to stall the ring and do 'magic'
 [01:25:46]  <keithp> like flushing CPU caches and the chipset
 [01:25:46]  <keithp> or doing the dance needed to get GPU memory coherent for the CPU
 [01:25:50]  <airlied^ yeah I'm mostly thinking between the parts of the GPU, dst and zcaches in our case.
 [01:26:07]  <keithp> are there in-ring flush operations available?
 [01:26:49]  <airlied^ on radeon yes, thought I'm wondering if there are any wait requiremenbts.
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[01:27:29]  <keithp> airlied: if you can stick everything in-ring, then there's no CPU interaction in the middle. otherwise, you take an interrupt and figure it out from there
 [01:27:35]  <keithp> sub-optimal, but workable
 [01:28:10]  <keithp> so, I'm thinking we just have a per-domain 'flush' operation which takes the mask of future read domains
 [01:28:58]  <keithp> track which write domain holds data for each buffer, then on submit, do the appropriate flushing
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[01:29:27]  <keithp> as an obvious optimization, the flush operations could be tracked so that other buffers in the same cache domain would also be marked flushed
 [01:29:47]  <keithp> although, that would depend on precisely how the flush operation worked -- if it were per-buffer, then you wouldn't do that
 [01:30:11]  <airlied> most likely it'll be all or nothing..
 [01:30:16]  <airlied> at least on current chips.
 [01:30:20]  <keithp> Not forever, trust me
 [01:30:33]  <airlied> oh I'm sure later ones will be more like CPUs.
 [01:30:35]  <keithp> caches will get bigger :-)
 [01:30:48]  <airlied> we also have the option between cache flushing and invalidation.
 [01:30:57]  <airlied> I'm just wondering if I have enough info to know which I need.
 [01:31:19]  <keithp^ hmm. I think so -- you'd have to flush all writes and invalidate all reads
 [01:31:53]  <keithp> so, if DOMAIN_RENDER had dirty cache lines, and you were reading from DOMAIN_TEXTURE, you'd flush DOMAIN_RENDER and invalidate DOMAIN_TEXTURE
 [01:32:26]  <keithp> fortunately, we have a limited set of write domains
 [01:32:28]  <airlied> hmm actually I think I have flush and flush/invalidate.
 [01:32:37]  <keithp> of course
 [01:32:46]  <keithp> oh, so you want to know if you need to invalidate the render cache
 [01:32:55]  <keithp> you'd do that when transitioning from CPU to GPU
 [01:33:23]  <airlied> hmm actually maybe they are separate ops, hard to know with the info I have.
 [01:33:25]  <keithp> sounds like you get to preserve the render cache when doing RTT though
 [01:33:27]  <keithp> that's fairly sweet
 [01:34:00]  <airlied> hmm for ZCACHE I can either invalidate or flush/invalidate
 [01:34:18]  <airlied> for DSTCACHE I think I can invalidate and/or flush
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[01:34:30]  <airlied> but I'd need AMD to fill in the blanks in my brain.
 [01:34:31]  <keithp> it's all random
 [01:34:59]  <keithp> airlied: I'm sure AMD would love to fill the blanks in your brain with live ammunition :-)
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[01:45:44]  <keithp> airlied: mesa has a max width of 4096 pixels. any reason I can't bump that to 8192?
 [01:48:10]  <airlied^ there was a reason before  Ithink.
 [01:48:14]  <airlied> but I disreember it.
 [01:48:27]  <keithp^ seems fairly harsh on drivers
 [01:48:32]  <airlied> my brain is saying bits of precision and hardware..
 [01:48:36]  <airlied> but it probably shouldn't matter.
 [01:48:38]  <keithp> heh
 [01:48:49]  <airlied> you have a > 4096 hw?
 [01:49:23]  <airlied> hhehe.. bug 578
 [01:50:32]  <keithp^ 965 does 8192
 [01:50:57]  <eboettcher> O.O
 [01:51:20]  <airlied> keithp: 8192 stride?
 [01:51:26]  <airlied> or 8192 * bpp?
 [01:51:41]  <eboettcher> that's big enough to render to UHDV
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[01:52:40]  <keithp> airlied: 8192 pixels
 [01:52:58]  <keithp> looks like the mesa software rasterizer might explode
 [01:53:13]  <keithp> my level of care is fairly low though
 [01:53:24]  <airlied^ but if you did it all in hw then you could get away with it.
 [01:53:34]  <keithp> some day that might actually happen
 [01:53:40]  <airlied> I'm ssure you can set ctx->Const.MaxViewportWidth in the driver
 [01:53:55]  <keithp> sure, but I'm mostly interested in max texture size
 [01:54:10]  <keithp> as compiz can't run on really big setups at present
 [01:54:56]  <eboettcher> i965 can output to display configurations that large?
 [01:55:12]  <keithp^ well, it can render to objects that large
 [01:55:21]  <keithp> getting them out a port is problematic
 [01:55:34]  <airlied^ yeah you can't scan that out at all yet can you?
 [01:55:40]  <keithp^ sadly, no
 [01:55:44]  <keithp> FSAA ftw!
 [01:57:09]  <airlied^ bring it up on mesa3d-devel, maybe gallium will fix it :)
 [01:57:23]  <keithp^ gallium fixes everything
 [01:57:34]  <airlied^ if that doesn't I'm sure kernel modesetting will.
 [01:58:10]  <eboettcher> how is that kernel modesetting?
 [01:58:21]  <keithp^ it isn't.
 [01:58:22]  <eboettcher> I have all ati cards here so I wouldn't know :)
 [01:58:29]  <airlied> it would be better if I wasn't fixing bugs in the nv driver.
 [01:58:53]  <keithp^ heavy sigh.
 [01:59:06]  <keithp> at least it sounds like our memory domain technique may not be entirely insane
 [01:59:26]  <keithp> anholt has the basic allocator up and running, with pread/pwrite talking to the bits
 [01:59:52]  <keithp> a bit of memory domain love, fencing and GTT fun, then we're ready for superioctl and testing
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[02:02:19]  <airlied> keithp: got movnti bits?
 [02:02:27]  <keithp^ GTT WC mapping ftw
 [02:02:40]  <keithp> I'm thinking that'll be better anyway -- no chipset flush horror show
 [02:03:05]  <keithp> plus, we'll be allocating the GTT aperture at the right point too
 [02:03:13]  <keithp> so, it's kinda free
 [02:03:55]  <keithp> that, of course, is only for the write-only data. For pixel objects, we'll be mapping/unmapping from GPU and CPU so we can get cached CPU access on fallbacks
 [02:04:14]  <keithp> I'm thinking I don't really care about the performance cost of that transition
 [02:04:19]  <keithp> it better never happen...
 [02:04:31]  <airlied^ got trapezoids?
 [02:04:45]  <airlied> on my 915..
 [02:04:57]  <keithp^ that's all CPU side, then pwrite to GPU
 [02:05:10]  <airlied^ will I not need to blend things?
 [02:05:19]  <airlied> or do I CPU render to some sort of temporary and composite?
 [02:05:28]  * airlied knows nothing about trapezoids..
 [02:05:40]  <airlied> other than the profiles I had always gave them as the fallback
 [02:05:44]  <keithp> CPU computes the mask (sigh), then push the mask to the GPU and composite from that
 [02:06:00]  <keithp> hoping to have GPU-computed trapezoids at some point
 [02:06:10]  <keithp> at least on 965, if not 915/945
 [02:07:10]  <keithp> one trick will be to avoid using the GPU to clear the trapezoid mask buffer
 [02:07:35]  <keithp> as that will cause all kinds of hurt when pulling it back to the CPU for trapezoid rasterization
 [02:07:47]  <airlied^ oh I wonder is that the bad thing I was seeing )
 [02:08:04]  <keithp> what you're seeing is trapezoid rasterization to WC memory probably. that's really bad.
 [02:08:17]  <keithp> we have to make that cached
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[03:30:24]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:37:29]  <MrCooper> hmm, is the xorg list stuck?
 [03:38:26]  <airlied^ keithp unwedged it earlier
 [03:40:37]  <MrCooper> okay, I posted something ten minutes ago and it hasn't come through... maybe I'm just too impatient :)
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[03:43:43]  <airlied> MrCooper: well it may have fallen over again.. :)
 [03:44:02]  <airlied> in which case kick daniels :)
 [03:45:40]  <MrCooper> I would if he was here ;)
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[04:20:23]  <MrCooper> looks like the lists have caught up
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[04:24:31]  <airlied> MrCooper: daniels kicked it again.
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[04:25:09]  <MrCooper> airlied: excellent, thanks to him and to you for kicking him :)
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[12:56:46]  <stillunknown> How does a driver determine if a monitor needs dithering or not?
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[13:04:22]  <dagb> is it an xserver bug if a certain driver+application+action combination causes the xserver to consume 100% CPU?
 [13:06:29]  <stillunknown> not by definition
 [13:07:21]  <stillunknown> As soon as the driver becomes relevant it's more often the driver that is responsible.
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[13:10:27]  <MrCooper> it really depends on the specific combination and where the cycles are burned
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[13:15:49]  <dagb> attaching gdb never brings me to the 'gdb>' prompt, which ajax stated indicates a drm problem.
[13:16:05]  <dagb> if I understood him correctly, that is.
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[13:21:42]  <krh> dagb: yeah, that indicates a kernel side busy loop
 [13:22:24]  <krh> you could try a recent sysprof, which should give you a stacktrace from the X server all the way into the kernel
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[13:44:57]  <dagb> krh: thanks
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[15:10:05]  <vignatti> marcheu: I always read multi-head as not necessarily single-head/multi-crtc but also multi-card
 [15:10:13]  <vignatti> weird
 [15:10:36]  <marcheu> hmmm for all the years I4ve been here, multi head was single card
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[16:06:43]  <jasonlife> Since i810_drv doesn't support i965 and I need to use intel_drv instead, and I found that intel_drv doesn't support zaphod mod.  Is there a way I can configure my i965 with zaphod mode?
 [16:07:50]  <airlied^ logic suggests no.
 [16:08:23]  <jasonlife> Is there a chance the zaphod back like ATI driver?
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[16:09:53]  <airlied> jasonlife: don't think Intel have any plans in that direction.
 [16:10:04]  <jasonlife> I'm wondering whether there is newer version of i810 driver since 1.7.4.
 [16:10:15]  <airlied^ i810 is dead.
 [16:10:19]  <airlied> intel replaced it.
 [16:10:45]  <jasonlife> Intel driver is maintained by Intel?
 [16:10:49]  <airlied^ yes..
 [16:10:54]  <jasonlife> I see.
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[16:54:43]  <bryce> is Xorg currently set up to use page attribute table support if it is present in the kernel?
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[16:59:36]  <jbarnes> bryce: not yet... we're waiting for the right kernel interfaces to land
 [16:59:46]  <bryce^ ah thanks
 [16:59:47]  <jbarnes> once that happens, we can update libpciaccess to use the new stuff
 [17:00:03]  <bryce^ (our kernel team is asking us if it's worth including)
 [17:00:21]  <jbarnes> on some machines it'll be the only way of getting a write combined frame buffer
 [17:00:47]  <jbarnes> so if you've already pulled in the bits to support resourceN_wc files adding libpciaccess support should be easy
 [17:00:53]  <jbarnes> and definitely worth including
 [17:01:27]  <bryce> does this improve perf for 3D only, or also 2D?
 [17:02:52]  <ajax> yes.
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[17:33:25]  <OgreBoy> ajax: I've had a couple of apparent freezes recently, with lots of "kernel: [drm:radeon_cp_{idle,reset,start}] *ERROR* radeon_cp_{idle,reset,start} called without lock held, held  0 ..." type messages in /var/log/messages after reboot.
 [17:33:42]  <OgreBoy> appears to coincide with trying to switch from direct to indirect rendering with kwin
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[17:34:25]  <OgreBoy> are there any *useful* debug options for radeon kernel module, etc?
 [17:36:29]  <npen> hello !
 [17:36:37]  <npen> I've got a question about x11perf -aa10text relevance
 [17:37:23]  <ajax> OgreBoy: dunno, sorry.
 [17:37:30]  <OgreBoy> np
 [17:37:35]  <npen> On my config, it seems that the text is not antialiased
 [17:37:48]  <OgreBoy> should probably bug alex or dave anyway
 [17:37:49]  <npen> (much better result on XAA than on EXA)
 [17:38:23]  <npen> so I looked at the x11perf source code, and
 [17:38:30]  <npen> fc-match --verbose "charter:antialias=true:rgba=0:pixelsize=24" gives me
 [17:38:41]  <npen> antialias: FcFalse(s)
 [17:39:19]  <npen> so I guess it's not testing aatext
 [17:40:27]  <npen> Is this a fontconfig configuration problem ? this is standard debian sid config...
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[20:51:36]  <idr> keithp:  Where can I find that wfb module you were telling me about?
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[23:42:57]  <anholt> idr: build option for xserver/fb/
 ----- [2008-04-29] -----
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[03:29:42]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:58:40]  <mraudsepp> CP|home: ping
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[07:03:05]  <Q-FUNK> mraudsepp: still asleep for a couple of hours
 [07:03:48]  <mraudsepp> couple hours pong delay sounds good ;)
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[07:04:21]  <mraudsepp> CP|home: do you intend to nominate the geode pci id commit for cherry-picking to 1.5 branch? Seems that commit was done after 1.5 branched
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[07:16:12]  <stillunknown> The moving window generates damage problem, is that strictly for non-automatic redirection?
 [07:19:00]  <stillunknown> (bug 4336)
 [07:19:29]  <stillunknown> 5275 i meant
 [07:21:16]  <MrCooper^ think so, doesn't automatic depend on the damage?
 [07:21:42]  <stillunknown> That i do not know, hence i ask.
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[07:25:16]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: the bug comments and patch seem to talk about only suppressing damage for manual redirect
 [07:26:32]  <Q-FUNK> mraudsepp: mailing list might be a safer place to ask for those checklist items. :)
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[10:46:01]  <ajax> aaronp: i'm not super happy with wfb now.
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[10:47:09]  <ajax> aaronp: afaict, you can't use it on more than one screen, if those screens supply different wfb{Read,Write}Memory calls.
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[12:49:29]  <aaronp> ajax: Yeah, you have to set the Read/Write pointers every time you set up.
 [12:50:14]  <aaronp> It's good for us because we plug in a variety of different functions depending on the types of surfaces being used, but I can see it being not so hot for other drivers.
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[14:24:27]  <idr> aaronp, ajax: Is there some driver that I can use as an example of how to use wfb?  I'm going to have to use it on xgixp. :(
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[14:26:03]  <ajax> nvidi... oh, wait.
 [14:26:16]  <idr> :(
 [14:26:46]  <ajax> it's not too bad though.  wfbScreenInit() takes two additional function pointer args at the end
 [14:27:28]  <ajax> which are the setupWrap and finishWrap hooks.  in them, you stuff your decoding functions into wfb{Read,Write}Memory, and then restore the old ones at finish
 [14:27:55]  <idr^ Sounds easy enough.
 [14:28:05]  <ajax> and then there's also a memcpy path you have to wrap the same way
 [14:28:44]  <ajax> what does xgixp need it for?
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[14:30:28]  <idr> ajax:  Byte-swapping on PowerPC.
 [14:31:03]  <idr> They have surface like the Radeon, but I can't get them to work.
 [14:32:22]  <ajax> and i assume it doesn't have a global endianness flag like mga
 [14:33:17]  <idr^ It has that too, but apparently that hardware doesn't work.  Neat, huh?
 [14:33:27]  <ajax> shiny!
 [14:35:59]  <idr^ Or something like that.
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[14:54:23]  <aaronp> ajax: You don't need to restore the old ones at finish, because the next wrap call should set them up again.
 [14:55:48]  <aaronp> ajax & idr, rather
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[15:01:09]  <dagb> whot: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13511
 [15:01:45]  <dagb> You state: "Tom's patch is already in master." Did you commit it?
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[15:07:55]  <dagb> whot: never mind, found the commit
 [15:08:15]  <idr> aaronp: Okay.
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[15:31:20]  <TMM> I have something interesting: When I add a second VGA card to my intel G35 based system, the on intel driver will segfault at X startup :-/
 [15:32:17]  <TMM> http://pastebin.ca/1002112
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[15:32:29]  <TMM> it apparently crashes while trying to initialize randr
 [15:32:36]  <TMM> has anyone seen this before?
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[15:39:04]  <TMM> is there any way to have the intel driver not enable randr?
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[15:54:38]  <TMM> ah, apparently it is not possible to use a randr1.2 driver with xinerama
 [15:55:03]  <TMM> I COULD use the i810 driver, but 915resolution doesn't know my intel chip, so it won't go to 1680x1050
 [15:55:09]  <TMM> interesting catch-22
 [16:01:08]  <TMM> nevermind, decided to patch 915resolution myself :)
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[17:21:11]  <stillunknown> TMM: are you sure i810 works with a G35?
 [17:23:12]  <TMM^ using it now
 [17:23:34]  <TMM> sans DRI, but that's because of xinerama, it worked fine with DRI with just one head
 [17:24:21]  <TMM> interstingly enough, the second pipe doesn't work all that well on i810, whatever gets connected to pipeb causes severe screen corruption
 [17:25:39]  <stillunknown> i810 still dates from the vbios driven driver era
 [17:25:49]  <stillunknown> which is not so good for dual head
 [17:25:58]  <stillunknown> which is why intel was made
 [17:27:00]  <TMM> it shows :)
 [17:27:26]  <TMM> well, I should get my SDVO card this friday, then I won't have to use the HDMI out anymore, I recon the G35 will just work(are) then
 [17:27:49]  <TMM> I just couldn't bear that extra monitor turned off on my desk anymore
[17:27:50]  <TMM> ;)
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[20:01:23]  <aaronp> Shouldn't dixLookupResource(foo, someBogusXID, RT_COLORMAP, bar, baz) return BadColor rather than BadValue if someBogusXID isn't a Colormap?
 [20:02:03]  <aaronp> Or is it up to the caller to translate?
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[20:21:07]  <DrNick> *sigh*
 [20:21:27]  <DrNick> Firefox crashing everytime a site creates a DIV bigger than 2048 pixels in at least one dimension is getting annoying
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[20:26:06]  <airlied> DrNick: btw what card/driver is that again?
 [20:26:19]  <DrNick> R200
 [20:26:33]  <DrNick> ATI FireGL 8800
 [20:27:37]  <airlied> using EXA?
 [20:28:49]  <DrNick> yes
 [20:28:58]  <DrNick> on latest F8 server/driver
 [20:29:00]  <agd5f> did the something change with how libGLcore.so gets built?
 [20:29:13]  <anholt^ yeah, glcore is now built from mesa
 [20:29:20]  <airlied> DrNick: its failing on pixmap create I wonder why.
 [20:29:34]  <anholt> it's almost like some sort of sane build process
 [20:30:26]  <agd5f^ is it a new build target in mesa?  I haven't really been following that thread too closely
 [20:31:56]  <anholt^ looks like it gets built regardless
 [20:32:49]  <DrNick> huh, apparently the most recent crash that raised my ire was caused by XQueryPointer failing
 [20:38:12]  <jcristau> airlied: bug 15706?
 [20:38:16]  <DrNick> oh, wait, forgot the --sync
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[20:45:06]  <agd5f> wow, otayler's glyph changes make a HUGE difference
 [20:45:51]  <agd5f> 1040000.0/sec for aa10text on r5xx
 [20:46:30]  <anholt^ nice!
 [20:46:58]  <anholt> (you are getting an antialiased font chosen, right?)
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[20:47:07]  <agd5f> anholt: I was getting 385000 before
 [20:47:45]  <airlied> DrNick: ah fixed in F9, not planning on another F8 server until post F9 release
 [20:47:48]  <airlied> not enough time.
 [20:47:57]  <agd5f> anholt: how do I check?
 [20:48:42]  <anholt^ ^Z and see if there's any gray?
 [20:48:48]  <anholt> might be hard if it goes that fast, though
 [20:49:09]  <anholt> it's always been easy to see pixels get saturated at speeds I've encountered.
 [20:50:04]  <agd5f^ looks like it
 [20:50:11]  <DrNick> I can live with installing things out of rawhide
 [20:51:05]  <airlied^ well F9 is "stable" now :)
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[20:51:33]  <DrNick> ok, so much for that idea
 [20:51:38]  <airlied> I think rawhide will have lots of deps over F8
 [20:51:41]  <DrNick> the dependency tree is absurdly large
 [20:54:51]  <airlied^ I'm just pushing a new server into koji.
 [20:55:22]  <airlied> it was only a one line patch.
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[20:55:37]  <airlied> DrNick: xserver-1.3.0-exaupgrade-fix-max-pixmap.patch
 [20:55:42]  <airlied> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=589383
 [20:55:47]  <airlied> when it finishes.
 [20:56:18]  <DrNick> <3
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[21:01:07]  <airlied> oops messed up ..
[21:01:27]  <jcristau^ the patch looks reversed (looking at cvsweb)
 [21:02:11]  <jcristau> heh, fixed :)
 [21:02:23]  <airlied^ yeah I messed up somehow.. I'm mostly watchin Stargate on the couch, this task is secondary :)
 [21:03:22]  <airlied> DrNick: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=589404
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[21:07:31]  <agd5f> airlied: you already have the surgery?
 [21:08:01]  <matthewf> is there a manual/tutorial on using X and what events the server responds to?
 [21:08:21]  <airlied> agd5f: yup, yesterday my time..
[21:09:09]  <airlied> thankfully not too painful, just getting over the general anastehic taking more outta me.
 [21:09:58]  <agd5f> glad to hear it went well
 [21:11:05]  <airlied> just have to stay home for 2 weeks to avoid infections..
 [21:14:31]  <eboettcher^ what kind of surgery did you get?
 [21:15:30]  <airlied^ nose straightening.
 [21:15:40]  <airlied> technically an SMR + turbination
 [21:15:56]  <whot> matthewf: that's a very broad question. what do you want to do
 [21:16:51]  <matthewf> I want to know what events I can validly route to my application, specifically to implement a wakeup routine
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[21:18:23]  <matthewf> or, where can I find out what you may find in XEvent->type
 [21:18:52]  <whot> IIRC Xproto.h lists all opcodes
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[21:23:06]  <matthewf> whot: nope
 [21:25:20]  <matthewf> X.h is where it is
 [21:28:01]  <anholt> cjb: any idea what's up with the "fatal: Entry 'configure.ac' not uptodate. Cannot merge." on the tinderbox?
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[21:30:24]  <cjb> anholt: nope, hadn't seen it.
 [21:30:26]  <matthewf> I'm porting a windows application and looking for the X equivilant of: SetEvent(WIN32_STATE(wakeUpEvent));
 [21:30:35]  <anholt> cjb: recurring on the freebsd tinderbox
 [21:30:40]  <cjb^ ah, I don't run that one.
 [21:30:46]  <cjb> benjsc does.
 [21:30:54]  <cjb> is it in fontconfig?
 [21:31:03]  <anholt> nope, random modules per run, it seems
 [21:31:07]  <cjb> eek.
 [21:31:18]  <matthewf> which, the author has told me, is just an event that wakes up the application from sleeping and does nothing else
 [21:31:31]  <anholt> also need to smack him to install python on that machine :)
 [21:31:50]  <cjb^ python2.5, specifically.  he has python2.4 installed.
 [21:31:57]  <anholt> ahh
 [21:33:53]  <matthewf> so, basically, I just need to get something sent immediately to one of the files the application is select()'ing, and the X input stream seems the easiest
 [21:37:40]  <whot> anholt: want me to tell benjsc?
 [21:40:43]  <whot> matthewf: I guess an expose event would do
 [21:43:31]  <matthewf> the expose event is handled by a full redraw
 [21:43:59]  <matthewf> I think I just should send some event that is not handled
 [21:46:08]  <anholt> whot: sure.  I try to poll the tinderbox periodically for freebsd issues
 [21:46:53]  <whot^ k. i will be in the office in the arvo and tell him to fix it.
 [21:51:14]  <matthewf> of those that are not handled, NoExpose and MapNotify seem the most harmless
 [21:51:23]  <matthewf> don't know what they do
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[21:55:19]  <whot> matthewf: MapNotify tells the client that the window has been mapped. this may break semantics in some cases if you just send one (apps should cope with it, but...)
 [21:55:26]  <whot> NoExpose AFAIK is a NOOP
 [21:58:31]  <matthewf> cool
 [21:59:51]  <whot^ so, you're trying to use XSendEvent to wake up an app?
 [21:59:59]  <matthewf> ya
 [22:00:32]  <matthewf> since the x event stream is an easily accessable global stream that select() is waiting on
 [22:02:24]  <matthewf> the windows version used a the windows SetEvent() function for the same purpose
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[22:18:11]  <anholt> agd5f: yeah, updating server to otaylor just took my text from 50k/sec to 315k/sec.
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[23:53:24]  <DrNick> airlied: thanks
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[00:38:38]  <spstarr> airlied: ive had that surgery
 [00:38:58]  <spstarr> I enjoyed the heavy loss of blood and morphine :-)
 [00:39:18]  <spstarr> i had a bad deviated septum, i needed two surgeries to fix my nose
 [00:39:39]  <spstarr> well that and the correct alignment of the nose
 [00:40:05]  <spstarr> airlied: I'm guessing you do not like the gauze in the nose
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[01:46:06]  <airlied> spstarr: thankfully mine wasn't too serious.. no gause packing :)
 [01:46:19]  <spstarr> lucky!
 [01:46:43]  <spstarr> i admit the morphine was pretty cool though
 [01:47:16]  <spstarr> I remember when I came to, they nurse saying, "he's waking up, give him more"
 [01:47:38]  <spstarr> the withdrawal however ...
 [01:48:07]  <airlied> damn I got no morphine..
[01:48:11]  <spstarr^ you couldn't breath from one side?
[01:48:33]  <airlied^ prety much, I broke it years ago.
 [01:48:35]  <spstarr^ my operation turned into a 2.5 hour
[01:49:12]  <spstarr> same, ever since i fixed it, the smell of broccoli is putrid to me
 [01:50:23]  <spstarr> being on morphine isn't fun, worse the nurses shuffled me onto a wheelchair and my parents moved me into the car, never felt so sick ever
 [01:52:19]  <spstarr> "Early symptoms include watery eyes, insomnia, diarrhea, runny nose, yawning, dysphoria, and sweating and in some cases a strong drug craving. Restlessness, irritability, loss of appetite, body aches, severe abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, tremors, and even stronger and more intense drug craving appear as the syndrome progresses. Severe depression and vomiting are very common" :(
 [01:52:25]  <spstarr> the withdrawal however ...
 [01:52:47]  <spstarr> not fun...
 [01:53:54]  <spstarr> i dont recall those symptoms other than the last one
 [01:54:47]  <spstarr> 'pain associated with surgical conditions, pre- and postoperatively'
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[01:55:53]  <spstarr> anyhow, you got lucky :-)
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[01:56:15]  <airlied> spstarr: doesn't sound like much fun.. this sounds much better.
 [01:57:03]  <spstarr> no, wasn't on top of changing the gauze, black and blue
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[02:42:20]  <Subdino> hi
 [02:42:48]  <Subdino> I managed to get my touchscreen ("DIALOGUE INC PenMount USB") using evdev input driver
 [02:43:42]  <Subdino> to do so, I had to discover in the code configuration parameters which do not appear in the documentation (at least not in debian sid manpage) and to change th code a bit
 [02:44:02]  <Subdino> how should I proceed to submit my modifications ?
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[03:01:16]  <Subdino> gah, nevermind... I just pulled code from git, and it will never merge there
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[03:23:22]  <whot> anholt, cjb: freebsd tinderbox is broken because we had a server change here. will take a few days to get it back up, ben is still stresstesting etc.
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[04:30:00]  <whot> jcristau: thx for the cherry-pick
 [04:31:45]  <jcristau> np
 [04:32:23]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [04:32:29]  <jcristau> i should probably do the same for some of the patches we're carrying on top of 1.4..
 [04:34:35]  <whot> yeah, 1.4 is a bit orphaned
 [04:34:43]  <whot> maybe for the better :)
 [04:38:49]  <Q-FUNK> maybe, except that some distros are gonna stuck with it for the next 3 years...
 [04:40:22]  <whot> d'oh
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[04:41:46]  <airlied> glad we didn't ship 1.4.. 1.5 is such a breeze ... BOT..
 [04:41:48]  <airlied> NOT even..
 [04:41:50]  <airlied> damn typing.
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[04:43:36]  <jcristau> airlied: it took about 6 months to get 1.4 in shape after release. maybe 1.5 will be the same :)
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[04:44:40]  <whot> jcristau: at least input is working in 1.5. mostly anyway.
 [04:44:49]  <whot> that makes it different to 1.4 already :)
 [04:45:14]  <jcristau^ with heavily patched 1.4 it seems ok
 [04:45:31]  <mraudsepp> who do we bribe for 1.5 branch cherry-picks :)
 [04:45:43]  <daniels^ what do you need cherry-picked?
 [04:45:58]  <mraudsepp> sec, getting the hash
 [04:46:37]  <mraudsepp> daniels: 4fa89fbe18c929e0d36
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[04:47:08]  <MrCooper> it would be a good start if requests for review didn't go to /dev/null :}
 [04:47:34]  <mraudsepp> but /dev/null is the best reviewer yet. It never nack's
 [04:48:11]  <MrCooper> true, unfortunately it doesn't ack either
 [04:48:55]  <mraudsepp> yeah, just lacking a "if no ack for a week it's fine" policy
 [04:49:03]  <mraudsepp> no nack*
 [04:49:19]  <airlied> is that for 1.4 or 1.5?
 [04:49:31]  <mraudsepp> 4fa8? 1.5
 [04:50:04]  <MrCooper> airlied: the situation is about as unclear for either
 [04:50:50]  <airlied^ you wanted some EXA pulled in
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[04:51:34]  <mraudsepp> lets pull glyph caches and run! *g
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[04:53:59]  <MrCooper> AFAICT from LWN, GCC seems to do a pretty good job at regular status updates on the current procedure required for the branches; I wish we had something like that
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[04:55:52]  <airlied> MrCooper: I suspect 1.5 will get more time once we ship F9.
 [04:56:55]  <airlied> not like any other distro is going to pick it up this cycle.
 [04:59:05]  <MrCooper> it might have been a candidate for Debian lenny, but I guess that doesn't count as 'distro'
 [05:00:18]  <daniels^ the current procedure for 1.5 is 'convince ajax, anholt or myself'.  i'm hard to convince on exa patches, since i've never looked at that part of the world.
 [05:01:28]  <mraudsepp> I suspect Gentoo will pick 1.5 up quickly enough...
 [05:02:37]  <mraudsepp> daniels: convinced on 4fa89 yet? :)
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[05:08:00]  <Q-FUNK> jcristau: is Lenny targeted to release with 1.4 or 1.5?
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[05:08:31]  <jcristau> Q-FUNK: i suspect that depends whether i can find someone to fix pciaccess on alpha
 [05:09:11]  <Q-FUNK^ I'd vote for demoting alpha instead.  it's lagging behind on too many things, not just X.
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[05:09:29]  <dberkholz> that might also depend on whether 1.5 comes out at some point in the relatively near future =)
 [05:09:37]  <jcristau^ that too
 [05:09:43]  <dberkholz> still a pretty sizeable bug list
 [05:10:18]  <jcristau> Q-FUNK: your vote (or mine) is pretty much irrelevant though
 [05:10:53]  <whot> dberkholz: there's a few stale bugs though. reported 2006, no followup
 [05:11:39]  <airlied> hopefully F9 knocks most of the bugs out of it.
 [05:11:42]  <dberkholz> my pipe dreaming is pulling the recent glcore commits into 1.5 and getting a mesa 7.1 or something just for that
 [05:11:55]  <Q-FUNK> jcristau: true, but raising the issues that make alpha a candidate for demotion might get people into action to fix things ;)
 [05:12:15]  <jcristau> dberkholz: and a libdrm release before that :)
 [05:12:35]  <dberkholz> sure, i wouldn't mind having a 1.5 that actually builds against a released version of mesa either.
[05:13:13]  <mraudsepp^ got the git ebuilds to work with glcore new world order already?
 [05:13:42]  <MrCooper> daniels: thanks for cherry-picking the EXA PolyLine fix to 1.4
 [05:14:28]  <dberkholz> mraudsepp: if it works with zero changes to 'em, sure
 [05:14:37]  <dberkholz> if not, get yerself commit access
 [05:15:47]  <dberkholz> the mesa git still doesn't do autoconf
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[05:15:58]  <mraudsepp> dberkholz: well, all that mesa stuff in xorg-server would probably have to go away. I haven't had time to work on it yet myself, so figured you might have (and the pipe dreams seem to indicate you might have to see how good it is :)
 [05:17:39]  <MrCooper+ mesa Git does autoconf
 [05:18:36]  <jcristau^ he's talking about the ebuild i think
 [05:18:36]  <dberkholz+ yeah i know, our packaging doesn't
 [05:18:38]  <MrCooper> k
 [05:18:53]  <dberkholz> some missing context for you unfortunate non-gentooers. =)
 [05:19:33]  <jcristau> pfft
 [05:19:54]  <daniels> MrCooper: np
 [05:21:22]  <mraudsepp^ thanks
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[05:23:12]  <jcristau> daniels: mind if i cherry pick 37b1258f to 1.4-branch?
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[05:31:40]  <daniels> mraudsepp: np
 [05:31:46]  <daniels> jcristau: knock yourself out
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[05:34:19]  <jcristau> daniels: thanks
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[05:50:46]  <marcheu> MrCooper: hey you actually implemented vram defrag !
 [05:51:17]  <MrCooper^ yeah, crazy isn't it?
 [05:51:28]  <marcheu> crazy but cool
 [05:51:50]  <MrCooper^ I also adeed A1 text acceleration via the glyph cache especially for you ;)
 [05:52:07]  <marcheu> hmm really ?
 [05:52:19]  <tilman> does that mean that core fonts can be accelerated as well now?
 [05:52:41]  <MrCooper> marcheu: yeah, the a1 glyphs are just uploaded to the a8 cache
 [05:53:04]  <MrCooper> tilman: not yet, those are quite different paths in the server
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[05:53:50]  <MrCooper> tilman: that said it might be possible to do it, but I'm not sure it's worth it
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[05:55:22]  <tilman> yeah, i understand
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[05:56:27]  <marcheu> MrCooper: man that's all very great !
 [05:56:46]  <MrCooper> the only app I use regularly that uses core fonts is emacs22... and it doesn't seem too slow anyway
 [05:57:06]  <tilman> i'm using a core font in my terminals
 [05:57:32]  <tilman> having 6+ of them really slows down workspace switches
 [05:57:38]  <marcheu> rxvt ?
 [05:57:42]  <tilman> urxvy
 [05:58:23]  <marcheu> yeah I use rxvt and it seems non accelerated core fonts are faster than accelerated AA fonts
 [05:58:57]  <MrCooper^ have you tried the glyph cache changes?
 [05:59:07]  <tilman> even with the fallback penalties? :o
 [05:59:11]  <marcheu> not yet, bad boy
 [05:59:27]  <marcheu> I'm slacking on the xorg front these days
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[08:03:16]  <MacSlow> How do I determine what the minor-code 0 (of a XErrorEvent) is?
 [08:04:11]  <MacSlow> I've 10 (BadAccess) as error-code, 2 (XChangeWindowAttributes) as request-code and this 0 as minor-code.
 [08:04:18]  <MacSlow> Thanks in advance!
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[08:08:47]  <jcristau> MacSlow: that's for extensions afaik
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[08:09:30]  <MacSlow> jcristau, well I've an error-code of 10 (BadAccess), a request-code of 2 (XChangeWindowAttributes) and this minor-code 0
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[08:10:06]  <MacSlow> but I fail to find any hints regarding that in the all the headers located under /usr/include/X11
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[08:13:18]  <jcristau> for core protocol you can ignore the minor code
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[08:18:48]  <MacSlow> jcristau, core-request are always <= 127, right?
 [08:19:35]  <MacSlow> at least that's the impression I get from looking at Xproto.h
 [08:22:49]  <jcristau> right
 [08:22:54]  <jcristau> >= 128 is extensions
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[08:36:22]  <MrCooper> MacSlow: it's the minor request code, not the minor error code
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[08:54:27]  <MacSlow> MrCooper, ah ok... thanks
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[08:56:09]  <MacSlow> MrCooper, but for core-request the minor-code is irrelevant like jcristau said?!
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[08:57:09]  <MrCooper> right
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[14:32:43]  <stillunknown> Should frame{X0, X1, Y0, Y1} represent the combined screen for randr-1.2 drivers?
 [14:36:25]  <stillunknown> Also what does pScrn->mode mean in the context of a randr-1.2 driver?
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[15:14:41]  <libv> stillunknown: you either mean Modes or CurrentMode if memory serves
 [15:15:32]  <stillunknown> i meant currentMode indeed
 [15:20:17]  <libv> well, i am not sure, but i doubt either still has any meaning under randr conditions, as even cycling through the modeslist stopped workign
 [15:20:25]  <libv> but i might be very wrong
 [15:22:34]  <stillunknown> I wonder if some extensions should be disabled with randr-1.2.
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[15:23:47]  <stillunknown> Maybe even go as far and completely delete the mode stuff in screen info struct.
 [15:25:48]  <libv^ what about those drivers that aren't randrised
 [15:26:02]  <stillunknown> I obviously mean for randr-1.2 drivers.
 [15:26:10]  <stillunknown> to avoid any improper usage
 [15:26:15]  <libv> ScrnInfoRec is for all drivers
 [15:26:33]  <stillunknown> true, i didn't mean deleting the entries.
 [15:26:40]  <stillunknown> Just don't fill them at all.
 [15:27:30]  <libv> so is it filled up when using randr 1.2?
 [15:27:33]  <stillunknown> yes
 [15:27:37]  <libv> ?
 [15:27:48]  <libv> so chances are that randr 1.2 is still using them
 [15:27:54]  <stillunknown> but consistency leaves something to be desired for
 [15:27:59]  <libv> :)
 [15:28:04]  <stillunknown> as nothing critical uses it
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[15:28:16]  <stillunknown> only some old extensions
 [15:28:55]  <stillunknown> XVidModeExtension + mplayer crashes my system if i unplug one monitor during the run
 [15:29:16]  <stillunknown> xv does strange things based on currentMode
 [15:30:06]  <libv> so the xv extension was not updated to use different entries, or is this an nv specific thing?
 [15:30:23]  <stillunknown> the problem is that:
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[15:30:51]  <stillunknown> - it's taking one of the monitors to fill the 'compat' pScrn entries
 [15:31:11]  <stillunknown> - these are not always properly updated, hence old modes get stuck, which leads to bad clipping sometimes
 [15:32:03]  <stillunknown> libv: Eventually it boils down to the fact that a single mode entry is completely unsuitable for randr-1.2
 [15:32:20]  <libv^ could this be specific to the driver you're using now?
 [15:33:14]  <stillunknown> possibly, but i'm talking about a fundamental problem here.
 [15:33:19]  <libv> is currentmode referenced in there?
 [15:33:27]  <libv> oh, sure, but ScrnInfoRec is what it is
 [15:33:54]  <libv> nobody has bothered to go and clean it and xf86Mode.c up properly
 [15:34:26]  <stillunknown> I can understand it's existence, just don't use it for randr-1.2
 [15:34:37]  <stillunknown> Because bitrot is already obvious.
 [15:35:02]  <libv> this is what replace and forget gets you
 [15:35:54]  <stillunknown> if you turn a few pointers to NULL and become consistent, then you at least get nice failures, not obscure ones.
 [15:36:27]  <libv> yeah, but this would mean actually fixing up the other bits that depend on this
 [15:36:42]  <stillunknown> Exactly what is needed.
 [15:37:02]  <stillunknown> Either disable, fix or remove.
 [15:38:22]  <stillunknown> I don't mind doing some cleaning, as long as people agree that it's the right thing.
 [15:39:22]  <libv> properly fixing up old interfaces is never very popular
 [15:39:35]  <libv> it's always disable and then eventually remove
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[15:40:57]  <stillunknown> Some extensions could die in favor of randr provided ones (ofcource only for those drivers).
 [15:41:33]  <idr> ajax: I'm in the process of fixing the last of the show stopper bugs for xgixp.  Is it too late for it to be included in the release?
 [15:41:39]  <libv> yeah, so unless all but a few drivers are culled, the only real option is proper fixup
 [15:42:17]  <stillunknown^ I'm merely suggesting to set some mode entries to NULL for drivers that it's inappropriate for.
 [15:42:19]  <idr+ Culled or migrate to randr 1.2
 [15:42:28]  <stillunknown> Not changing everything.
 [15:42:43]  <libv> idr: dream on.
 [15:42:53]  <idr^ I can has dreams!
 [15:42:59]  <idr> :)
 [15:43:00]  <stillunknown> have
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[15:43:34]  <idr> stillunknown: It's a joke.  Google image search for "i can has cheezburger"
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[15:45:04]  <mathieu> hi, (already asked on #xorg, but probably better here)  : how can I set inputdevice to a v4l device ?
 [15:45:57]  <stillunknown> idr libv: realism doesn't prevent some basic sanity
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[15:50:54]  <libv> ah, wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_can_has_cheezburger
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[16:03:21]  <dberkholz> idr: hours of entertainment. i look at it whenever i'm feeling really pissed or depressed about oss stuff. =)
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[16:16:26]  <krh> dberkholz: lolcats makes everything better
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----- Log file opened 2008-05-05T13:01 -----
[13:02:02]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[13:02:02]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[13:02:02]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp Adrian_Hun1 airlied alanc_away alp Amaranth arekm bartman Battousai bbyer bernie bgoglin bobbens bryce cjb coling Company CosmicPenguin ctyler cworth dagb daniels dante darktama dberkholz Dodji Dr_Jakob DrNick ds Duke` dvandyk dwmw2_gone eboettcher egbert_away emmes Erik_A_ fredrikh gabriel__ glisse gordonj gusta1 hachi halfline Ingmar jasonlife jbarnes jcristau jwelsh kangaroo keithp krh krunga leio libv londo londo__ MacSlow marcheu marvil07 math_b mbalmer mcepl_ Mercury_ mjg59 MrCooper ndim nolan nomego OgreBoy onestone Ori_B otavio Overfiend pachi_ pdurao pete__c pjones Primer psyquark Q-FUNK RaoulDuke revx rvalles schmirgo shuang solarion soren spstarr_work stillunknown svu sxpert sytse t4bz tango_ TBBle tcoppi The_Paya thebentzone tibbs tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel TurboAWAY Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker whot z3ro zaitcev Zeddie Zenton Zhenech zuh
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[13:04:15]  <daniels> svu: heh yeah, it's been warm here too.  unfortunately i've been travelling a bit too much to get time to sit down and look at the rules stuff, still kind of swamped in the server. :\
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[13:21:57]  <svu> daniels: troubled release?
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[13:28:24]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: saw those -geode issues at ubuntu that only seem to affect some laptop design (presumably, the german one)?
 [13:30:49]  <CosmicPenguin> The autoconfig bug that just popped up today?
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[13:30:59]  <CosmicPenguin> 140051?
 [13:33:49]  <Q-FUNK> yup
 [13:34:30]  <CosmicPenguin> The probe function failing is an odd one
 [13:34:54]  <CosmicPenguin> really, the only way that could happen is if he has no VSA and no /dev/cpu/0/msr
 [13:35:39]  <CosmicPenguin> I thought like you did that maybe he had a NX or something and thought it was a LX
 [13:35:43]  <CosmicPenguin> but the lspci looks right
 [13:38:16]  <Q-FUNK> it indeed does
 [13:38:55]  <Q-FUNK> for the msr, we could easily ask him to manually add it to the moduels list that initramfs-tools uses, then ask him to reconfigure the kernel
 [13:39:05]  <CosmicPenguin> Looks like xf86MatchDevice is failing - but I'm not sure what that does
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[13:40:10]  <CosmicPenguin> very strange - this code has worked for eons - if it was the libpciaccess, I would understand
 [13:40:14]  <CosmicPenguin> but...
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[13:40:35]  <Q-FUNK> device matching has failed since the rename to -geode, as far as I can tell
 [13:40:37]  <daniels> svu: just shaking up some really core stuff, which i have to get in shape for 1.6 early; then i can move on to smaller targets :)
 [13:40:55]  <svu^ poor old you:)
 [13:40:57]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: ah - are we missing something else in the core then?
 [13:41:43]  <Q-FUNK^ I'm begining to wonder that, bjut then, what, asides from the missing PCI ID that we just added and that everyone is backporting to 1.4 core?
 [13:41:47]  <daniels> svu: heh, it's fine
 [13:42:25]  <svu^ it just means that May's release of xk-c will still have compat rules broken. and I'll send people's wrath to you ;)
 [13:43:05]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: or actually, device matching was working before the rename, so it's got to be something else.  the LX's PCI ID was always missing before that anyhow
 [13:43:21]  <Q-FUNK> hm.  I really should go and grab a bite somewhere...
 [13:43:40]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: brb.  reconnecting from a nearby restaurant's wifi zone.
 [13:45:50]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [13:46:06]  <CosmicPenguin> I doubt I'll have any insights between now and then
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[13:59:51]  <daniels> svu: heh, i'm getting quite experienced at dealing with wrath now
 [14:00:38]  <svu^ you'll have more practice soon. hordes of angry  russians. all the way from Moscow and SPb ;)
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[14:22:17]  <Q-FUNK> re
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[14:22:49]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: seems thta my connection timed out.  what was the last line you saw from me?
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----- Log file closed 2008-05-05T14:30 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-05-05T14:30 -----
[14:31:05]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[15:16:01]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: re
 [15:16:15]  <CosmicPenguin^ hi
 [15:16:54]  <Q-FUNK^ one telling sign that matching broke after the rename is Hardy's LTSP.  it does the 2-pass run:  1) -configure 2) use that config.   works wiht amd, fails with geode.
 [15:17:18]  <CosmicPenguin> but we do know that -configure works with Geode
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[15:18:30]  <Q-FUNK> -configure produces a config that states "geode".  however, the driver seems to fail at using it, in LTSP.
 [15:18:51]  <Q-FUNK> the odd thing is that on a standalone host, if I produce a config with "geode" as the Device, it works
 [15:19:49]  <CosmicPenguin> Indeed - I just ran it again to make sure
 [15:19:53]  <CosmicPenguin> Driver "geode"
 [15:20:37]  <Q-FUNK> there seems to be two ways of running X with our driver:
 [15:20:37]  <Q-FUNK> Xorg -configure, then use the resulting config.  used in LTSP and works with amd, but not with geode.
 [15:20:37]  <Q-FUNK> or
 [15:20:37]  <Q-FUNK> launch X without a config and hope for a PCI ID match, followed by a successfull DDC probing.
 [15:20:37]  <Q-FUNK> which didn't work until we got around adding the ID last week.
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[15:21:34]  <CosmicPenguin> I wonder if LTSP is doing some sort of secret sauce
[15:21:35]  <Q-FUNK> now, in principle, an X core with the LX's PCI ID, followed by -geode with the libDDC patch, should always work.
 [15:21:47]  <CosmicPenguin> Since it works vanilla, I think thats where you need to concentrate your debugging
 [15:22:05]  <Q-FUNK> for LTSP, yes.  it's probably doing some mumbo jumbo.
 [15:22:40]  <Q-FUNK> but for configless chipset match, PCI ID didn't produce the expected result, on a patched X 1.4 core on Hardy
[15:23:46]  <Q-FUNK> I tried getting my PPA to build an xserver-xorg-core with the PCI ID added.  it still doesn't manage to magically guess that we are on a geode.  it reverts to -vesa.
 [15:24:24]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not at all sure what happens deep in the X core
 [15:24:44]  <Q-FUNK> me neither.  I was hoping that someone on this channel might be able to enlighten us.
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[15:25:49]  <Q-FUNK> but you were mentionign earlier something about a broken device match?
 [15:27:35]  <CosmicPenguin> The report in 140051 is failing because AmdProbe is calling xf86MatchDevice, and *that* is failing
 [15:27:49]  <CosmicPenguin> What that function is, or if it has anything to do with what you are talking about, I do not know
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[15:29:03]  <Q-FUNK> 00:01.1 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Geode LX Video (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
 [15:29:27]  <Q-FUNK> there's something different about that line, compared to our dbe61 and I cannot quite put my finger on it
 [15:30:50]  <Q-FUNK> ah, right
 [15:38:10]  <Q-FUNK> that ones says "prog-if 00"
 [15:39:18]  <Q-FUNK> I cannot remember what our thincan says, but it's soemthign else
 [15:40:06]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: added that piece of infor about missing VSA or /dev/msr and asked Billy to make one test for us
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[15:55:50]  <jcristau> daniels: annarchy is bouncing mail to bugzilla-daemon@fd.o, any chance you can look into it?
 [15:56:23]  <daniels^ oh, still
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[15:57:10]  <daniels> set that up during a particularly vicious spam attack, was getting in the order of 4000 errors per day to mailer-daemon, so i just axed the alias and forgot to reinstate
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[15:57:13]  <daniels> hopefully it's better now ...
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[15:59:23]  <jcristau> thanks
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[16:00:02]  <mattst88> could someone with xserver commit access push a patch in bug 15147 through? (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=15913)
 [16:02:25]  <ajax> the intel C compiler is broken.
 [16:02:48]  <ajax> "gcc compatible" my ass.
 [16:02:56]  <ajax> the initial patch should never have been applied.
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[16:04:45]  <dberkholz> hmm. i want to install icc, but at least on gentoo it tries to pull in 32-bit emulation stuff, which i'm really trying to avoid.
 [16:05:00]  <dberkholz> and a crazy old libstdc++
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[16:09:55]  <aaronp> Is there documentation anywhere describing when it's appropriate to use the various Dix*Access types?
 [16:17:33]  <mattst88> ajax, xserver compiles and runs cleanly after the original patch is applied when compiled with icc
 [16:18:21]  <ajax^ that doesn't make it not broken.
 [16:19:19]  <mattst88> well, you're right in the sense that it breaks compatibility by not defining __amd64__ and such
 [16:19:24]  <ajax> that bug shows that icc doesn't define the same set of tokens as gcc, even though it claims to be gcc compatible
 [16:19:53]  <mattst88> but I can't see the harm in a simple patch that doesn't break anything, and allows icc to compile xserver
 [16:20:18]  <ajax> the harm is it sends intel the message that they're allowed to rewrite history.
 [16:20:22]  <ajax> fuck that.
 [16:21:29]  <mattst88> the alternative at this point is to purposefully break icc compatibility.
 [16:21:40]  <ajax> don't threaten me with a good time.
 [16:21:42]  <daniels> purposefully not add hacks for icc compatibility, yes.
 [16:22:14]  <mattst88^ the abi states that __amd64__ and __x86_64__ must both be defined.
 [16:22:30]  <ajax> ... then icc isn't ABI-conformant.
 [16:22:34]  <daniels> right, so a ... yeah.
 [16:22:45]  <mattst88> so checking for __x86_64__ isn't some bizarre icc-specific hack.
 [16:22:58]  <mattst88> ajax, right. I said that.
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[16:23:51]  <ajax> everything you're saying here seems to indicate that we _should_ break icc.
 [16:24:28]  <ajax> it's not conforming both with the published interface and with the de facto gcc interface.
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[16:28:17]  <dberkholz> some interesting history i recently heard is that amd actually called it x86-64 early on and later changed it to amd64 for marketing
 [16:28:38]  <dberkholz> no idea of its veracity
 [16:32:19]  <ajax> that could easily be true.
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[16:37:25]  <idr> I missed something the other day.  Where / when am I supposed to call fbPrepareAccess?
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[16:38:02]  <aaronp> idr: It's called for you by fbGetDrawable.
 [16:38:20]  <idr> oh...
 [16:38:53]  <idr> aaronp: So I just set the wfbReadMemory / wfbWriteMemory global pointers in PreInit?
 [16:41:04]  <dberkholz^ mario kart's fun stuff. lemme know your # when you've got it handy
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[16:44:50]  <idr> dberkholz: Okay.
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[16:55:21]  <fgb> hola, I ported some xlibs to Plan 9 and just wrote the DDX part for of the server
 [16:55:42]  <fgb> is there any chance I get it in the distribution?
 [16:56:50]  <aaronp> idr: The pointers to those are passed into your setupfbwrap function.
 [16:56:57]  <mattst88> fgb, file a bug report with a patch included :)
 [16:57:00]  <aaronp> You're supposed to set them every time because another driver might plug in its own.
 [16:57:28]  <fgb> ok
 [16:58:43]  <fgb> thanks, I'll clean up the code, it's 4 files that would go in hw/equis, I provide an mkfile, so no need to modify the configure stuff
 [16:59:21]  <daniels^ er, why would you not use the autoconf stuff? it's how the rest of your tree is broken, so i can guarantee you that your build will continually break.
 [16:59:26]  <fgb> should I post in some mailing list or telling you here is enough?
 [16:59:32]  <daniels> s/rest of your tree is broken/rest of our tree is built/, god
 [16:59:39]  <daniels> fgb: we'll see the bug go by
 [16:59:55]  <fgb^ Plan 9 is not posix compliant
 [17:00:49]  <daniels^ it lacks a usable shell?
 [17:01:20]  <fgb> configure wants an ls with -t, cut and other stuff
 [17:01:37]  <fgb> plus if you run it on Plan 9 it says that it's not recognized
 [17:01:49]  <fgb> cd hw/equis; mk
 [17:01:54]  <daniels> ugh
 [17:02:00]  <fgb> does the trick, I provide a dix-config.h
 [17:02:05]  <daniels> and yeah, you'll need to insert some trivial hacks, but they should be just that: trivial.
 [17:02:08]  <fgb> and all Plan 9's are created equal
 [17:02:31]  <fgb> it took me days to figure what should I compile out
 [17:02:42]  <fgb> http://plan9.kicks-ass.org/mkfile
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[17:04:03]  <daniels> *blink*
 [17:06:55]  <fgb> http://plan9.kicks-ass.org/equis.png (screenshot - dwm native + dillo under linuxemu)
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[18:36:03]  <aaronp> Aaargh
 [18:36:06]  <aaronp> Freaking X headers.
 [18:36:35]  <aaronp> Xephyr doesn't work on 64-bit systems because hostx.c builds with the wrong size XIDs.
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[18:43:35]  <daniels> aaronp: erm, that got fixed a long time ago.
 [18:46:07]  <cjb+ I use 64-bit Xephyr..
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[19:25:41]  <aaronp> Hmm, odd that I'm seeing this problem, then.
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[19:35:01]  <aaronp> Looks like it was broken by 6a435b0000 which includes kdrive-config.h, which includes dix-config.h, which defines _XSERVER64.
 [19:35:29]  <aaronp> I'll file a bug.
 [19:35:42]  <cjb> ooh.
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----- [2008-05-06] -----
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[01:25:40]  <whot> vignatti: I can switch between HW and SW cursors now.
 [01:26:40]  <vignatti^ awesome
 [01:26:40]  <vignatti> push it to fd.o :)
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[01:27:40]  <vignatti> whot: the idea is to use sw cursor just when we have more than one cursor?
[01:28:41]  <vignatti> but in that situation the first cursor still rendered in hw?
 [01:28:41]  <whot^ nah, I switch all to SW
 [01:28:41]  <whot> not sure how I'd do the selective SW rendering, the fix so far is surprisingly nonintrusive
 [01:28:55]  <whot> although I bet there are some things I just missed
 [01:31:40]  <vignatti^ now probably would be easy to do it better and use the first cursor always in hw
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[01:33:40]  <whot> vignatti: could be, though not quite sure yet. I need to iron out one more glitch before I can push
 [01:33:40]  <vignatti> it's weird cause my quickly view at mpx code told me that we would touch a lot of mi/* to get hw cursor working again
 [01:33:45]  <whot^ I can send you the two patches as they are now if you want to have a glance
 [01:33:58]  <whot> this way you can stop me from doing something that doesn't go anywhere
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[01:36:40]  <vignatti> whot: I have two options right now: either I touch my dissertation qualification (which is _really_ boring right now, but I have to send it until the end of this week) or I see what you did and have more fun..
 [01:38:50]  <whot^ tough choice :)
 [01:39:40]  <whot> what do you want to do your thesis on?
 [01:42:50]  <vignatti^ it's related with structured peer-to-peer networks
 [01:43:40]  <whot^ ah.
[01:43:40]  <vignatti> the ideia is to use distributed hash tables to route informations to differents peers
 [01:43:51]  <vignatti> so I'm using an scheme of replication through multiple hash functions to get a certain degree of replication
 [01:44:40]  <whot^ fair enough. I have no clue in this area so I can't comment much on it :)
 [01:44:40]  <vignatti> the goal is to preserve digital informations in a long-term
 [01:44:40]  <vignatti> heh
 [01:49:40]  <vignatti> it's cool cause my graduation thesis was something related with theory of computation. Now I'm playing with P2P in the master and having some fun with X
 [01:49:40]  <vignatti> so it's three totally different things related with computers.....
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[03:25:50]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:53:55]  <daniels> aaronp: hostx _must not_ include any server headers.  if XEPHYR_DRI needs to be set, then that needs to be through CFLAGS.
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[05:37:52]  <conathan> Greetings
 [05:38:41]  <conathan> I was trying to find some information about making touchscreens work (A product from VisualPlanet).  Serial based.
 [05:38:53]  <conathan> It does not look like there are any xorg drivers for it, and I was wondering about the level of dificulty for writing xorg input drivers
 [05:39:40]  * conathan hasn't been in the xorg codebase b efore
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[05:46:40]  <daniels> conathan: it's not actually difficult per se, more just that most of the existing drivers are broken.  depending on the level of complexity, you probably want to check out xf86-input-evtouch (simple), or linuxwacom (really complex).
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[05:46:57]  <conathan> good to hear.
 [05:47:40]  <conathan> if I got questions, I imagine I could come here for assistance?
 [05:49:40]  <daniels^ sure
 [05:49:40]  <conathan> BTW, how generic are touchscreens?  Would each company have it's own protocol?
 [05:50:40]  <conathan> I threw evographics, and evtouch at it...  but no results.  (one of those two, dont remember which had a debug, but it clearly shown it didn't like the datastream)
 [05:50:40]  <daniels> yeah, everyone does their own stuff.
 [05:50:40]  <daniels> (except via usb, where only half do.)
 [05:50:57]  <conathan> the person I was assisting was going to get his hands on a usb touchscreen...  at least I'll have an ID to look up
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[06:13:40]  <Zeddie> conathan: when I was doing a serial touch screen , I wrote a kernel driver for it and had it use the same interface as evtouch
 [06:14:40]  <Zeddie> if you can work out the protocol or have it in docs (I had both) it's a pretty easy bit of code to do
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[06:14:41]  <Zeddie> I really should submit that driver to the kernel
 [06:15:40]  <conathan> alright
 [06:15:46]  <conathan> Never done software development on a large opensource project, other then dotting the odd i when gcc gets updated...
[06:15:55]  <conathan> but know my way around the C compiler, and the memory anyway
 [06:16:40]  <conathan> time to learn
[06:22:40]  <daniels^ what Zeddie mentioned (kernel driver that speaks evtouch's protocol) is also a pretty good idea.
 [06:24:40]  <Zeddie> it's actually the quickest :)
 [06:24:40]  <Zeddie> it's very easy code.
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[06:27:58]  <conathan> alright, thanks for the insite.
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----- Log file opened 2008-05-06T10:45 -----
----- Log file closed 2008-05-06T10:45 -----
[10:20:56]  ***  Chat #xorg-devel is no longer available :/
[10:46:43]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[13:13:39]  <ajax> daniels: what's the timeframe for the death of dga?
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[13:18:11]  <svu_> daniels: pong
 [13:20:42]  <ajax> holy cow Xephyr creates a lot of visuals
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[13:44:06]  <bla> I've got backtrace of X hunged with vesa driver on one screen
[13:44:21]  <bla> X hangs with 99% of cpu taken which I can reproduce easily.
 [13:44:51]  <ajax> where is it hung?
 [13:44:58]  <bla> http://rafb.net/p/CJLcgt51.html
 [13:45:09]  <bla> I've got this on ATI (open drivers), nvidia and now on vesa.
 [13:45:18]  <bla> Usually I use xinerama but now it's turned off.
 [13:45:24]  <bla> It hungs if I use mine shortcut:
 [13:45:33]  <bla> M-S + arrow keys to switch screens.
 [13:45:43]  <bla> After few changes - infinite loop or something.
 [13:45:55]  <bla> it's 1.4.0.90
 [13:46:04]  <bla> 2.6.24
 [13:46:09]  <bla> Newest of ~amd64 gentoo.
 [13:46:27]  <bla> This hungs happen to me from about 2 months and are making me crazy.
 [13:46:34]  <bla> Today I learned what causing them.
 [13:46:59]  <ajax> shame you stripped your X server, otherwise we could know exactly what line we were hung on
 [13:47:02]  <daniels^ um.  post-1.6?
 [13:47:20]  <bla> I can reemerge it unstripped with -ggdb
 [13:47:21]  <ajax> daniels: k.  just wondering how harshly to wontfix dga bugs.
 [13:47:23]  <bla> If you want to.
 [13:47:34]  <daniels> ajax: how severe?
 [13:47:40]  <daniels> bla: try upgrading to git xserver
 [13:47:50]  <daniels> svu_: is utf8 a sane default choice for ru_RU, or should it still be iso8859-5?
 [13:48:07]  <ajax^ this one ended up being a bogon.  it was something about "dga2 input grabs release correctly on client death but dga1 input grabs don't"
 [13:48:08]  <bla> daniels, only if you are sure it will help. ;s I'm a bit short on time.
[13:48:13]  <dberkholz^ USE=debug will do it for you. and if you have layman, you can add the x11 overlay and unmask 9999 versions of xorg-server and mesa
 [13:48:19]  <ajax> which is crap since dga1 didn't have an input API
 [13:48:19]  <dberkholz> bbiab, lunch
 [13:48:31]  <daniels> bla: it sounds suspiciously like a bug we've already fixed.
 [13:48:39]  <daniels> ajax: ...
 [13:48:44]  <bla> There's a similar open on bugzilla.
 [13:48:49]  <bla> dberkholz, ok, that will be next step.
 [13:49:00]  <bla> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14633
 [13:49:18]  <bla> Similar effect and also talking about keyboard.
 [13:49:49]  <bla> dberkholz, xorg-server package or some more xf* packages?
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[13:50:58]  <bla> 19 minutes; brb then. I'll check bugzilla in the meantime.
 [13:53:46]  <svu> daniels, UTF-8 is absolutely sane
 [13:54:08]  <svu> iso8859-5 is something noone uses. if you REALLY want 8 bits, use KOI8-r or CP1251
 [13:55:25]  <daniels^ right, i was figuring it had to be either koi8-r or utf-8, but was hoping the former.  thanks. :)
 [13:58:17]  <svu^ NP. koi8-r is for die hard long bearded aged unix admins;)
 [13:59:59]  <daniels> iow, people who would care about xlib locale settings?
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[14:00:48]  <ajax> the sad thing is how much of xlib could be legitimately gutted without going all the way to the xcb disaster
 [14:01:48]  <cjb^ what's wrong with xcb?
 [14:01:55]  <cjb> (in ten words or less, if you like)
 [14:02:20]  <svu> daniels, a lot. it was one of the famous flame war subjects (koi8-r for unixoids vs cp1251 for windozers) - before utf-8 appeared
 [14:02:34]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, i have vague plans of ditching a whole load of bullshit at some point.
 [14:03:58]  <ajax> cjb: cookie-based request scheme not really what gtk or qt are after
 [14:04:11]  <cjb> ah.  unfortunate.
 [14:04:27]  <ajax> particularly since gtk is already using the internal xlib async apis...
 [14:04:35]  <ajax> (sssh, don't let anyone know)
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[14:05:29]  <ajax> i mean.  the protocol descriptions are wonderful, and the idea of a thin C binding is admirable.
 [14:05:35]  <ajax> but the execution seems a bit meh
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[14:05:45]  <daniels> it would seem rather unfortunate if xcb is unusable by toolkits
 [14:06:53]  <Amaranth> does anyone use it?
 [14:06:54]  <ajax> daniels: libX11.so.7 seems like a fine idea
 [14:07:13]  <ajax> Amaranth: enlightenment, kinda.  otherwise no.
 [14:07:37]  <DrNick> except toolkits tend to expose xlib bits, which means you can't update it without potentially breaking apps that use the toolkits
 [14:08:04]  <ajax^ gtk exposes XIM?  god i hope not.
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[14:08:51]  <ajax> even if it does, that's fine.  that app will get libX11.so.6 anyway.
 [14:09:20]  <ajax> though it's hard to know which one you need to link gtk against, i suppsoe
 [14:10:23]  <daniels^ why not get the gtk people and the trolls (i think i could cajole this through various channels) to tell us what they want, instead of continually guessing wrong?
 [14:10:54]  <ajax> i approve of this idea as well
 [14:11:08]  <ajax> ssp's not here today, dang.
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[14:12:30]  <m_fabbri> to
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[14:18:10]  <dagb> bla: I think I know which bug you experience
 [14:18:55]  <bla> Is it already fixed (shall I switch to git version) or some info can be handy?
 [14:19:30]  <dagb> There is a fix in git now, if it is the same bug I had. Which is likely.
 [14:19:57]  <dagb> #13511
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[14:21:35]  <dagb> A fix for the 1.4 branch was added 6 days ago
 [14:21:51]  <dagb> 1.5 and head was fixed earlier
 [14:22:01]  <ds> does x.org have access to the EDID spec somewhere?
 [14:22:11]  <daniels^ yes
 [14:22:27]  <daniels> access is available to x.org foundation members
 [14:24:23]  <bla> dagb, ok, so I'll do short test with debug on, and switch to git. Any possibility to estimate when it will get to ~amd64? Hard to tell probably...
 [14:25:24]  <dagb^ for gentoo? Likely not until there is another 1.4 release..
 [14:26:05]  <dagb> but you can download the diff and create your own ebuild to add that patch.
 [14:26:13]  <dagb> (which is what I did)
 [14:26:41]  <bla> Ok, maybe the git version is not buggier than 1.4 version. I'm on development enlightenment and I live.
 [14:29:17]  <TMM> Is there a list somewhere with the hardware 3d capabilities of the intel driver? I'm getting some results I'm not expecting with a game performace-wise :)
 [14:29:18]  <dagb> I found building xserver from git to be more work than I cared for. Fixing the 1.4.0.90 ebuild was trivial.
 [14:29:55]  <daniels> doesn't gentoo have live git ebuilds or something?
 [14:30:19]  <dagb^ true. if you add the right overlay.
 [14:30:20]  <leio^ I think dberkholz is looking for a new xorg-server-1.4 with a patch to bring it up to server-1.4-branch level. Or more like he's hoping I or some else takes care of it ;p
 [14:30:29]  <dagb> which apparently is trivial as well.
 [14:30:41]  <leio> on that note, time to rebuild for newer git again. This is still unbearable.
 [14:35:03]  <ds> daniels: well, I finally bothered to rejoin x.org just now
 [14:35:18]  <ds> dunno how long that takes
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[14:37:38]  <fgb> I'm reading about bugzilla, is that the only way I have to submit ddx?
 [14:38:09]  <daniels> ds: poke me if you aren't a member by next week
 [14:38:23]  <daniels> fgb: bugzilla or email, yes, but bugzilla is less likely to get lost
 [14:38:24]  <ds^ ok
 [14:38:31]  <marcheu> and once you're a member where's the stuff ?
 [14:38:47]  <daniels^ on an ftp server
 [14:39:06]  <marcheu> ah ? is that described on the member site ?
 [14:39:38]  <fgb> daniels, email sounds better, the bugzilla web interface is over complex
 [14:40:54]  <fgb> I guess I 'll have to addapt the code to use your style,http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/fgb/root/sys/src/ape/X11/cmd/X/hw/equis/equis.c (that's how it looks now)
 [14:41:18]  <daniels> marcheu: i think we all know the answer to that one
 [14:41:48]  <marcheu> yeah I'll know once I have my members login figured out I guess :)
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[14:42:08]  <anholt> marcheu: I apologize in advance for the new-member process.
 [14:42:24]  <marcheu^ I've been a member for 2 years, just lost my password :)
 [14:44:00]  <marcheu> anyway I'm hoping for magic "I'm a 18 bit panel" or "I'm a 24 bit panel" bits
 [14:44:05]  <daniels> our membership stuff is currently a disaster.  i'd quit the ctte in exasperation at how little i was doing, but i don't think that'd actually help.
 [14:44:23]  <marcheu^ OTOH the site always works for me
 [14:44:34]  <marcheu> I don't think there's much to complain about ?
 [14:45:12]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: seems that updating the SSH keys works fine, as long as I avoid keys generated with recent SSH releases that choose a pointlessly long cypher by default.
 [14:46:10]  <mbalmer> 2048, afaik
 [14:46:11]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: seems that X core 1.4 and -geode 2.8.0+git20080224 just entered Debian/Testing. 
[14:47:13]  <anholt> daniels: so, can you please give me access to expo so when I've got some time I can destroy the current members site and build something new in the rubble?
 [14:48:09]  <Q-FUNK> mbalmer: sounds about right.  those long cyphers seem to barf on any MTA I shove them through. the line get wrapped always.
 [14:48:09]  <daniels> anholt: please! django all round.
 [14:48:30]  <daniels> (assuming you like django.  but everyone likes django.)
 [14:48:44]  <mbalmer> iirc, 2048 bit keys are the default now
 [14:48:45]  <Q-FUNK> I prefer boba.
 [14:49:11]  <bla> http://rafb.net/p/Nh3VHE51.html
 [14:49:19]  <bla> Ok, trace with debug on.
 [14:49:23]  <bla> dagb, is it the same?
[14:49:44]  <daniels> anholt: you now have an account on expo with the same ssh key as on fruit
 [14:50:08]  <anholt^ wow, that was painless
 [14:50:33]  <Q-FUNK> mbalmer: they are and that makes the mail interface of db barf.  I can shove as many lines of old 1024 bit keys as I like and it works always but, the minute i shove one of those 2048 bit keys in there somewhere, the mail interface barfs.
 [14:50:42]  <dagb> bla: the one you posted earlier looked similar, I think
 [14:51:23]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: is there anything in the mail interface that would clip pas a certain number of characters per line?
 [14:51:42]  <daniels^ no, but iirc smtp only allows you 1024 chars per line
 [14:51:59]  <bla> dagb, change a bit after cont + term
 [14:52:02]  <leio> talking of accounts, maybe I should smuggle one for myself
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[14:52:55]  <Q-FUNK> daniels:  ok. so updating of keys via email will always fail using those new keys.  either db accepts lines that are wrapped or we'll need a web interface to upload new keys.
 [14:53:29]  <bla> http://rafb.net/p/Dhrxgi57.html
 [14:53:29]  <leio> this key update stuff is automated or what? (thinking about the obvious - attachments)
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[14:53:49]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: this is true
 [14:53:53]  <Q-FUNK> leio: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountMaintenance
 [14:54:14]  <daniels> bla: okay, this is definitely fixed in git
 [14:54:19]  <dagb+ simple enough to clone the latest 1.4.0.90 ebuild, add the patch and digest the new ebuild
 [14:54:49]  <bla> daniels, thanks then.
 [14:54:59]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: mind me putting a note about the key lenght on the above wiki page?
 [14:55:03]  <bla> dagb, patch is in the bugzilla you've shown me?
 [14:55:18]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: be my guest
 [14:55:38]  <dagb> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=fdfb57d342da0ace14eed635804ebc31441240c5
 [14:55:46]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: actually, I just noticed that you protected the page
 [14:55:46]  <dagb> bla: ^
 [14:56:06]  <bla^ thanks.
[14:56:30]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: you have to be logged in to edit _any_ page on www.fd.o.  this one is no exception.
 [14:56:36]  <dagb> bla: http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=fdfb57d342da0ace14eed635804ebc31441240c5;hp=6afcf996cade0c9464d6af9b04b177b1de138cfd
 [14:56:42]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: so... would you mind adding that note yourself now, before we all forget?
 [14:56:45]  <dagb> better for cutting and pasting
 [14:57:26]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: it's not restricted to me or anything, it's open to any registered user ...
 [14:58:49]  <Q-FUNK> hmm.. different user base for wiki.x.org and wiki.freedesktop.org ?
 [14:59:49]  <Q-FUNK> *sigh* too manhy logins on too many wikis.
 [15:00:07]  <bla> dagb, digesting...
 [15:01:04]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: well, it seems that I'm only registered on wiki.x.org and seeing how I never need to do any editing on fd.org, I'm not gonna register there
 [15:02:05]  <marcheu^ come on, even spammers can figure it out
 [15:04:39]  <bla> dagb, (ok, now it fails... but gimme a minute...)
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[15:04:56]  <Q-FUNK> marcheu: I'm not laughing.  wasting one month figuring out what could be wrong with my MTA, then trying other MTA, only to find that it's an SMTP protocol issue, is not my idea of fun.
 [15:06:51]  <Q-FUNK> seeing that the mail interface of the user database cannot handle the data it's expected to handle, in the current default format, is also seriously fucked.
 [15:07:52]  <Q-FUNK> especially seeing how it's currently the only enabled method for updating SSH keys.
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[15:30:56]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: as registering for a wiki is too much of a burden on your day (hey, not like i have code to write or anything), i've gone ahead and updated it now.
 [15:44:17]  <OgreBoy+ just use base64 encoding, gets you around the line length limit
 [15:44:26]  <OgreBoy> the 1000-char limit is just for text/plain
 [15:45:16]  <Q-FUNK^ surprise:  gpg outputs in base-64 already
 [15:46:08]  <OgreBoy^ so where's it breaking?
 [15:46:12]  <Q-FUNK> but the db interface doesn't handle base-64 or MIME, afaik
 [15:46:27]  <OgreBoy> aha
 [15:46:52]  <Q-FUNK> it's deprecated crap leftover from the early days of debian.
 [15:47:06]  <daniels^ please, just fucking fix it then.
 [15:47:25]  <daniels> the source is publicly available.  send me a patch.  i'll merge it.  it would take you less time than however many months of incessant bitching.
 [15:48:33]  <Q-FUNK^ forget it.  the whole goddamn debian infrastructure that everybody in every damn free software project borrows blindly just because it's made in debian would need to be rewritten.
 [15:49:01]  <Q-FUNK> and ubuntu did a pretty ygood job at it with Launchpad
 [15:49:34]  <daniels> if you think launchpad is the solution, this conversation is not worth continuing.
 [15:49:43]  <ajax> wow.  i think that's the first time anyone has ever said anything nice about launchpad.
 [15:49:49]  <daniels> a) launchpad is crap, and has its own issues.  its bug tracker is worse than bugzilla, soyuz _still_ does not work today, etc.
 [15:49:56]  <ajax> we should make a note.  erect a plaque or something.
 [15:50:07]  <daniels> b) the source is not publicly available.  this would be a showstopper even if we did want terabytes of web service in order to run ssh keys.
 [15:50:39]  <daniels> bearing in mind those two issues and many more which i can't be bothered to mention (i have slightly more launchpad experience than you), have you any other suggestions?
 [15:50:53]  <daniels> we had infrastructure that wasn't from debian before.  guess what? it was worse! hooray.
 [15:51:23]  <daniels> if you want to be bitter at debian or rant and rave or whatever, great.  just do it somewhere else, because i'm fucking sick of it in #xorg-devel, when it has nothing to do with xorg development.
 [15:51:37]  <anholt> calling what we had before userdir 'infrastructure' is being awful nice.
 [15:52:12]  <daniels> and if you're doing it elsewhere, you'd damn well better be coming up with a patch.  so far, i've smashed userdir-ldap into pretty decent shape so that it actually works across a few machines and a few hundred users with a relatively complex set of needs.  what have you contributed towards fd.o's infrastructure?
 [15:53:23]  <ajax> in unrelated news: holy crap xaa.
 [15:54:11]  <ajax> it's hard to know what's worse, the implementation, or the style
 [15:54:21]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: that was gratuitous crap, thank you.  I use LP on a daily basis.
 [15:54:34]  <bla> Bye, and thanks. ;)
 [15:55:05]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: congratulations.  does this give you free access to the source?
 [15:55:35]  <daniels> does this mean that we should replace our bug tracker and deploy a whole infrastructure for managing distributions and derivative distributions that is hideously complex? (believe me, i've seen the schema.)
 [15:55:46]  <daniels> bear in mind that launchpad was meant to be deployed _once_ and only _once_.
 [15:56:33]  <daniels> this is an interesting answer to the problem of needing to manage ssh keys.  i congratulate you on your willingness to deploy a second instance of launchpad (which is weeks of work, at least), but wouldn't it be easier to fix ud-l?
 [15:56:38]  <daniels> hell, let me put it another way.
 [15:56:54]  <daniels> since you assert that ud-l requires a rewrite and nothing else will fix it except launchpad ... have you read ud-l's source? have you read lp's source?
 [15:56:54]  <Q-FUNK> thank goodness Ganneff took over from elmo.  there is still hope for debian...
 [15:57:13]  <daniels> this is #xorg-devel, not #debian-didnt-let-me-in-the-rat-bastards.
 [15:58:18]  <daniels> i'm assuming that you've read neither the ud-l source, nor the lp source, which really explains a lot.  thanks for playing thoughj.
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[16:09:13]  <revx__> is Barton Massey on IRC?
 [16:10:15]  <ajax> not often
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[16:11:10]  <revx__> well right now I'm going down his gsoc laundry list
 [16:11:54]  <revx__> among other things he wants me to setup a blog and get the URL to daniels
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[16:12:20]  <revx__> daniels: do you have a suggested space for me to do this in?
 [16:12:44]  <daniels^ um, any personal web space you have; if not, there are many free options such as livejournal.com, blogger.com or wordpress.com.
 [16:13:22]  <dberkholz> i recently moved to wordpress.com from livejournal.com, prefer it
 [16:13:46]  <revx__> I would be violating my ISP's AUP, but I could host it from home
 [16:14:00]  <revx__> which wouldn't be an issue if there's a low traffic volume
 [16:14:26]  <marcheu^ TBH I think that's more like a suggestion - you could either do the whole list or actually do SoC stuff...
 [16:15:28]  <revx__^ well the only other thing I'm doing so far today is messing with some GL code
 [16:17:11]  <marcheu> what's your project btw ?
 [16:17:31]  <revx__> DRI/Mesa r300
 [16:17:43]  <marcheu> hmmm are you eboettcher/box1209 ?
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[16:17:48]  <revx__> yep
 [16:17:54]  <marcheu> how many times do you change nicks :)
 [16:17:55]  <revx__> I'm just housesitting this week
 [16:18:06]  <revx__> well I'm housesitting and the ISP here sucks :P
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[16:19:03]  <revx__> but it's stable now.  if you look at logs of me from a couple of days ago, I think I was losing my connection hourly
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[16:19:28]  <marcheu> you don't need irc for coding anyway :) actually it's pretty detrimental in my experience :)
 [16:19:36]  <revx> agreed :P
 [16:20:14]  <fgb> hmm... for a static fn() "menq(int x, int y, int b, int t)" doesn't follow your coding style, right, should I rename it to MouseEnqueue?
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[16:21:16]  <fgb> (it's a 5 lines function)
 [16:23:33]  <daniels^ generally function names like mouse, kproc, menq, etc, are frowned upon, in favour of more descriptive items.  as a general rule, if your function name is six characters or less, you're probably doing something wrong.
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[16:25:25]  <fgb> daniels, thanks, I'll use longer names
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[16:29:12]  <revx> marcheu: aside from Foo, revx(rot13 of my first name), my name, and box1209 I don't have any other nicks I've used much in the past 5 years.
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[17:12:08]  <ds> now that xicc is getting bashed into shape, is there any interest in either a) merging it into another configuration setting tool, or b) creating xorg/app/xicc?
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[19:10:37]  <jklehm> XListInputDevice is to xidump -l as ????? is to xsetpointer -l
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[19:11:24]  <jklehm> anyone know where to look?
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[19:27:42]  <ajax> jklehm: i'd start with the source in xorg-x11-server-utils
 [19:28:19]  <ajax> or whatever your distro calls it
 [19:29:02]  <ajax> but xsetpointer -l seems to just call XListInputDevices() too
 [19:29:37]  <ajax> which isn't really surprising since both of those give virtually identical output
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[20:22:28]  <dberkholz> is dan nicholson on irc?
 [20:22:43]  <dberkholz> for some reason i don't like emailing people when i really want to have a discussion
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[21:38:00]  <anholt> keithp: I should expect blockhandlers while vt switched away, right?
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[22:19:49]  <keithp> anholt: yes. the server doesn't stop running
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[23:24:55]  <dberkholz> is 1.4 branch basically open for commits again?
 [23:25:16]  <dberkholz> i've seen a few commits from jcristau on 1.4
 [23:28:06]  <airlied^ I think daniels cleared those here.
 [23:29:54]  <dberkholz> heh
 [23:30:01]  <dberkholz> didn't realize anybody besides debian still cared about it =P
 [23:30:16]  <dberkholz> i just need something to appease users till 1.5 shows up
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[23:49:20]  <airlied> alanc_away: surely --with-openssl or --with-md would be better?
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[23:59:51]  <dberkholz> airlied: how about --with-sha1={openssl,md}
 ----- [2008-05-07] -----
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[00:06:40]  <dberkholz> anyone know how long it takes for a repo to show up on gitweb/cgit?
 [00:06:52]  <dberkholz> i just posted some patch nominations for 1.4 branch
 [00:10:13]  <vignatti^ did you `touch git-daemon-export-ok` there?
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[00:25:02]  <conathan> If I may ask, what version of Mesa3d, and what xorg branch is targetted for xorg 7.4?
 [00:25:35]  <conathan> I was assuming mesa 7.0.3 (Until I started poking around glxdri.c), and the server-1.5 branch...
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[01:43:08]  <dberkholz> vignatti: yeah i did
 [01:44:14]  <dberkholz> aha, it showed up
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[01:49:26]  <dberkholz> people.fd.o is really slow for my ssh right now
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[03:09:11]  <dooby> what is the easiest way to convert an XKeyEvent to an ASCII code? or... can somebody tell me a good place to get Xlib help?
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[03:23:53]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:42:41]  <daniels> dberkholz: erm, which branch do you want me to pull from?
 [04:44:31]  <daniels> oh, it's right there in the mail.  sorry.
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[04:57:11]  <daniels> argh
 [04:57:22]  <daniels> one swift kick to my posterior for not reviewing entirely correctly.
 [04:57:31]  <daniels> dberkholz: and one to yours for using cherry-pick instead of cherry-pick -x. :)
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[10:29:31]  * cbrake is trying to get a elographics input driver working ...
 [10:29:53]  <cbrake> dante: the cursor is not even moving with the elographics driver, where it will move with a mouse
 [10:30:42]  <cbrake> instrumenting ProcessEvents() ...
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[10:39:32]  <cbrake> hmm ProcessPointerEvent() is being called for mouse movements, but not for elographics events: http://pastebin.ca/1010565
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[11:37:03]  <jasonlife> What is the latest stable version of xorg-server?  I can see 1.4.99.901 at ftp://ftp.freedesktop.org/pub/xorg/individual/xserver
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[11:37:48]  <jasonlife> Does git version suppose to be stable?
[11:40:15]  <ajax> not really.
 [11:40:25]  <ajax> server-1.5-branch is the stable branch, and i'm long overdue for releasing another RC
 [11:40:38]  <ajax> just trying to track down some XAA issues first.
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[11:41:44]  <jasonlife> ajax: will server-1.5 be released as tar archive too?
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[11:45:39]  <dr-xorg> ajax: do you know/have you already seen: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12922#c13 ?
 [11:47:25]  <dr-xorg> (XAA issues reminded me ...)
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[11:50:55]  <ajax> jasonlife: of course.
 [11:51:22]  <ajax> dr-xorg: hadn't seen that one.
 [11:51:52]  <dr-xorg^ OK, fine ... just wanted to make sure you know ...
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[11:53:03]  <jasonlife> ajax: You are long overdue for releasing another RC for server-1.5.. It means it's not stable yet.. 
[11:54:17]  <ajax^ thanks for the reminder.
 [11:54:41]  <dr-xorg> (it's soooo complex ... the tentacles ... ugh... just adminning/SI, unfortunately... should spend a couple o' months sometime to change that ..)
 [11:54:57]  <ajax> not like i've had intense amounts of other things to do, or like anyone else gives a fuck about doing releases.
 [11:55:09]  <jasonlife^ don't get me wrong,  I'm not offense..
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[12:03:46]  <Company> question: is there a way to avoid vblank issues with X when updating the whole screen?
 [12:04:07]  <Company> i'm using gtk, so it's just a single XCopyArea that reaches the server
 [12:04:27]  <Company> (i think)
 [12:05:30]  <daniels> cbrake: you're ending up in ProcessOtherEvent, not ProcessPointerEvent.  what version of the server are you using?
 [12:05:37]  <daniels> it looks like you're just failing to send core events
 [12:05:49]  <anholt> Company: not really at the moment.  your only interface for pending things to vblank is opengl, or implementing dri protocol and talking to your DRM device directly to do what opengl does.
 [12:05:52]  <cbrake> daniels: 1.4
 [12:05:55]  <daniels^ (you _are_ using GetPointerEvents, right? and not generating xEvents by hand?)
 [12:06:04]  <Company> anholt: :(
 [12:06:09]  <anholt^ we *should* be implementing the sync extension so you could pend your rendering on the next vblank event, but we don't.
 [12:06:27]  <Company^ then i'll just wait until you guys get pissed enough at flickering youtube
 [12:06:36]  <cbrake> daniels: yes, I'm using the elographics driver from xorg
[12:07:03]  <daniels> Company: at the moment we can't even do non-flickering (god i typed that as flickring originally) mplayer, so youtube would be somewhere behind that on the list.
 [12:07:26]  <daniels> we'd like to have swfdec's developer:loc ratio, but sadly it's an infinitesmal fraction of that.
 [12:07:34]  <daniels> cbrake: could you please put your full logfile up somewhere?
 [12:07:44]  <daniels> if you're not hitting PPE, then you're just not sending any core events at all.
 [12:07:45]  <cbrake^ its calling  xf86PostMotionEvent and xf86PostButtonEvent
 [12:07:55]  <Company+ :)
 [12:08:32]  <cbrake+ is there any way to turn on verbose debugging in X?
 [12:08:39]  <cbrake> *logging
 [12:09:13]  <ajax> oh for crap's sake
 [12:09:15]  <ajax>                         bits = (CARD32*)(glyph + 1);
 [12:09:36]  <ajax> i hate you milkman xaa
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[12:12:04]  <daniels> cbrake: there should be enough in Xorg.0.log: could you please post that up somewhere?
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[12:14:39]  <cbrake> daniels: log file: ftp://bec-systems.com/pub/Xorg.0.log
 [12:15:01]  <daniels> ooh, ftp, how retro.
 [12:15:08]  <daniels> (and i say that as an x hacker.)
 [12:15:14]  <cbrake^ :-)
 [12:15:32]  <daniels> aha!
 [12:15:32]  <daniels> (**) Option "AlwaysCore"
 [12:15:32]  <daniels> (**) TOUCHSCREEN: doesn't report core events
 [12:15:32]  <daniels> (**) Elographics X device name: TOUCHSCREEN
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[12:15:43]  <daniels> cbrake: right, so you've got Option "AlwaysCore" in xorg.conf, right?
 [12:15:45]  <ajax> well at least i know why xaa 1bpp glyphs are munted
 [12:16:00]  <ajax> and my first fix was definitely right, just incomplete
 [12:16:12]  <cbrake> daniels: yes
 [12:16:36]  <daniels^ right.  i know this sounds odd, but bear with me.  to get it to always act as a core device ... delete Option "AlwaysCore".
 [12:16:41]  <daniels> this is a slightly counterintuitive bug.
 [12:16:54]  <cbrake^ trying ...
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[12:17:43]  <cbrake> daniels: now the cursor zooms off to one side of the screen
 [12:18:31]  <cbrake> I do get ProcessPointerEvent() calls now
 [12:18:36]  <daniels> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=ff4006bd5a71d39cc5655679447c5c47a99a2751 fixes it, btw
 [12:18:45]  <daniels> cbrake: okay, sounds like it's just failing to scale the events correctly
 [12:19:01]  <daniels> check the wacom driver for code to put the device co-ordinates in screen co-ordinates instead
 [12:19:16]  <daniels> (this is a bug fixed in all future releases: server-1.4-branch, server-1.5-branch, master.)
 [12:19:39]  <cbrake^ ok -- thanks!
 [12:20:05]  <daniels> commits f04c0838699f1a733735838e74cfbb1677b15dc4, d9e23c4ff1607a62164b34717ef9afd352ce2b94, a0284d577aabea8406b72dd63773e341430ebe56, and a56ef7aaa4b6ac13c8181f68fc7dad3ca89e6973 should take care of that particular issue
 [12:20:21]  <daniels> d9e23 more than most
 [12:20:23]  <daniels> (that's for the server, again.)
 [12:20:56]  <cbrake^ is there any problem with just removing the AlwaysCore option for now?
 [12:21:03]  <cbrake> with 1.4
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[12:23:48]  <daniels> cbrake: nope, that would work fine, once you're scaling the co-ordinates before you hand them off to the server.
 [12:24:31]  <cbrake^ I'm running a VGA touchscreen at 640x480  are screen cords 0-640,0-480 or something different?
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[12:26:20]  <daniels> cbrake: yeah, 0-640/0-480.
 [12:26:43]  <daniels> just (x / max_device_reported_x) * pScrn->width, and ditto for y/height
 [12:27:16]  <daniels> well, actually, (x * pScrn->width) / max_device_reported_x, but watch the overflows.
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[12:48:34]  <jcristau> daniels: would the scaling fixes work on top of 1.4-branch btw?
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[12:50:24]  <daniels> jcristau: indeed
 [12:50:28]  <daniels> i think they're already _in_ 1.4-branch
 [12:51:09]  <jcristau> they weren't last time i checked
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[12:55:35]  <daniels> hmm
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[13:07:48]  <dberkholz> daniels: bah, that used to be the default! they switched it around on me
 [13:09:21]  <daniels^ huh?
 [13:10:08]  <daniels> jcristau: i'm in the middle of a pretty extensive rebase -i, so do you feel like cherry-picking 12e532403210c15a25200ef448bfe9701735ab20, f04c0838699f1a733735838e74cfbb1677b15dc4, d9e23c4ff1607a62164b34717ef9afd352ce2b94, a0284d577aabea8406b72dd63773e341430ebe56 and a56ef7aaa4b6ac13c8181f68fc7dad3ca89e6973 to 1.4 branch?
 [13:10:46]  <dberkholz^ cherrypicking -- the default used to be -x
 [13:11:07]  <jcristau+ ok, i'll look
 [13:11:16]  <dberkholz> daniels, jcristau: i can just re-do my branch with -x and push it, if that's easier
 [13:11:16]  <daniels^ yeah, that was particularly annoying.  it's bitten all of us. :)
 [13:11:19]  <daniels> jcristau: cheers
 [13:11:39]  <daniels> dberkholz: nah, i've already pulled and pushed myself, hence the kick to myself for not double-checking.  hardly anything serious though, there are a few commits like that.
 [13:15:07]  <dberkholz^ jcristau: ok cool. i'm planning to push out an updated 1.4 branch to our users in the next day or two, so if you have anything else to go in, please let me know
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[13:20:03]  <daniels> dberkholz: i think just those ones i listed above
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[14:31:12]  <vignatti> whot_: I'm looking to your commit right now
 [14:32:01]  <vignatti> I didn't undestand why you defined XF86_FORCE_SW_CURSOR. Is it cheaper to test in some conditional or what?
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[14:41:36]  <Primer> So I've been corresponding with the author of btnx, and I want to run an idea by him. Basically I want to suggest that evdev_drv could be modified to propagate events into userspace so btnx could "see" them, and generate its own events
 [14:41:43]  <Primer> I'm trying to pitch this as a "trivial" modification of evdev_drv. How realistic is that?
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[14:52:01]  <PIDARAS> hey, can anyone please help me set up an external monitor on knoppix 5.1, running NVIDIA, ive been going absolutely insane
 [14:52:55]  <jcristau^ ask on #nvidia
 [14:53:11]  <PIDARAS> ok thanks
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[15:00:37]  <daniels> Primer: why on earth would you do that?
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[15:03:35]  <Primer> do you know what btnx is?
 [15:04:29]  <Primer> I guess some history about this discussion is in order
 [15:05:06]  <Primer> btnx reads mouse devices in order to create events, which are passed into X using uinput
 [15:06:00]  <Primer> so, for example, if you click the top thumb button on your mx1000, it can send the control-alt-x keyboard sequence to X
 [15:06:12]  <Primer> think "setpoint for Linux", except it'd work with any mouse
 [15:06:30]  <Primer> the problem is that btnx can't read the mouse device is evdev is in use
 [15:06:47]  <Primer> s/is/if/
 [15:07:17]  <krh^ sounds like you just want the xserver to not read from any real evdev device
 [15:07:29]  <krh> but only those that btnx creates through uinput
 [15:07:41]  <Primer> not entirely true
 [15:07:50]  <Primer> _I_ myself would use it in that manner
 [15:08:13]  <Primer> but there's no reason why buttons 1 and 3 need be handled
 [15:08:35]  <krh^ so btnx should just pass those through unhandled
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[15:09:01]  <Primer> it's not that simple
 [15:09:11]  <Primer> the problem is that I have to stop using evdev in order to use btnx
 [15:09:26]  <Primer> this leads to the problem of certain buttons "not existing" when I'm not using evdev
 [15:09:41]  <Primer> I use mouse_drv, and protocol "auto", which yield ExplorerPS/2
 [15:09:45]  <Primer> yields
 [15:10:17]  <krh^ no, what I'm saying is, don't use the evdev driver on that evdev device corresponding to the actualy mouse
 [15:10:17]  <Primer> once the mouse is ExplorerPS/2, I only have buttons 1-5, 8 and 9 available in X
 [15:10:43]  <krh^ but *do* use the evdev driver on the evdev device file corresponding to the uinput device
 [15:11:25]  <krh> that will let btnx open the real device, and X then uses the uinput device with the evdev driver
 [15:11:43]  <Primer> hrmm
 [15:12:05]  <Primer> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4890838&postcount=1016
 [15:12:09]  <Primer> if you'll indulge me
 [15:12:18]  * krh clicks
 [15:12:30]  <Primer> that's a post I made to the btnx thread on the ubuntu forums (the only thread discussing it. I use fedora)
 [15:12:37]  <Primer> it explains everything
 [15:12:54]  <Primer> the gist of my problem: Without evdev, I have no buttons 6 and 7 at all
 [15:13:09]  <Primer> and btnx can't "produce" those buttons, as they don't "exist"
 [15:13:21]  <krh^ these days I think there's some hal attribute you can set to prevent the X evdev driver from opening a specificc input device
 [15:13:46]  <Primer> except the mouse still needs to generate x and y axis events
 [15:13:58]  <krh^ and I'm saying *you don't need to stop using the X evdev driver*
 [15:14:32]  <krh> just disable it for the evdev device that correspond to the actual mouse
 [15:14:47]  <krh> and use it on the /dev/input/evdev file that uinput controls
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[15:15:38]  <Primer> I'm not quite understanding what you mean. If I do understand, then what you're suggesting would mean that there'd be no x and y events
 [15:15:59]  <Primer> as there's be no real mouse
 [15:16:02]  <Primer> there'd
 [15:16:39]  <Primer> Anyhow, what I'd like to know from daniels is why he thinks my idea is so outlandish :)
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[15:16:58]  <mjg59> Primer: Why not? A uinput device can declare and send whatever events it wants
 [15:17:13]  <Primer^ of course, but btnx is about buttons, not axes
 [15:17:19]  <Primer> it doesn't do axes
 [15:17:23]  <mjg59> mouse->btnx->evdev->X
 [15:17:27]  <mjg59> Primer: Then fix it
 [15:17:34]  <mjg59> It's much saner than hacking evdev
 [15:17:38]  <Primer> there's nothing to be fixed
 [15:17:40]  <Primer> why?
 [15:17:56]  <Primer> I added inotify support to evdev with one day of coding...it was trivial
 [15:18:05]  <mjg59> Because you're using functionality that already exists
 [15:18:31]  <Primer> ok, perhaps I'm not making myself clear
 [15:18:33]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: any minor bugfix you'd like to push in, before we call libDDC support a release?
 [15:18:41]  <Primer> btnx wants to read the device directly
 [15:18:47]  <mjg59> Not a problem
 [15:18:53]  <Primer> it's not using anything provided by X
[15:18:56]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: No
 [15:18:57]  <mjg59> Yes, that's fine
 [15:19:38]  <Primer> when X uses evdev, it creates contention for the device. btnx can't read the device when evdev is in use
 [15:19:44]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: so we'll call that 2.9.0 and move the OLPC support completion to the next milestone?
 [15:20:14]  <CosmicPenguin> Yes - but the planned date of the next milestone is still June 15
 [15:20:20]  <mjg59> Primer: That's fine. You just need to ensure that evdev doesn't listen to the device. If there's no support for it to do that now, then having a flag in hal that tells it to ignore that device is reasonable
 [15:20:29]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: agreed.
 [15:20:44]  <krh> mjg59: you can just copy and past what I said...
 [15:20:59]  <mjg59^ Well, yes
 [15:21:31]  <Primer> heh, well honestly, I don't see the use of using evdev at all then
 [15:21:42]  <Primer> since btnx can generate the events itself
 [15:21:55]  <mjg59> You need some way of getting those events back into the X server
 [15:22:01]  <Primer> btnx does that
 [15:22:04]  <Primer> bia uinput
 [15:22:06]  <Primer> via, even
 [15:22:09]  <Primer> bah, can't type today
 [15:22:11]  <mjg59> Yes, which evdev listens to
 [15:22:19]  <Primer> but it's moot by then
 [15:22:25]  <mjg59> Yes. That's the point.
 [15:22:29]  <Primer> sigh...
 [15:22:40]  <mjg59> Just generate all the events that you want generated, including the x and y axes
 [15:22:47]  <Primer> the problem is that I need to get x and y axis events from _somewhere_
 [15:22:49]  <krh^ ok, listen: xserver using evdev does not mean it listens to all evdev devices
 [15:23:00]  <mjg59+ Yes. You have a device node that gives them to you.
 [15:23:00]  <Primer> krh: ok, I understand that
 [15:23:16]  <krh^ it can listen to the evdev device that corresponds to the uinput controlled device only
 [15:23:28]  <krh> btnx can then listen to the real mouse device
 [15:23:29]  <Primer> then riddle me this: is it possible to use mouse_drv to setup a mouse that ONLY does x and y axis?
 [15:23:41]  <Primer> and no buttons AT ALL?
 [15:23:54]  <krh^ this means that btnx will have to also forward axis events and all other events the mouse might generate
 [15:24:03]  <krh> but it's the only clean way to do it
 [15:24:22]  <Primer^ sure
 [15:24:43]  <Primer> but, btnx doesn't handle axis data. I'd like this discussion to keep that in mind :)
 [15:24:44]  <krh^ you could even extend btnx to recognize gestures and send button events instead
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[15:25:05]  <Primer> krh: hrmm, that's actually a nifty idea
 [15:26:12]  <Primer> I'm just not sure what the btnx author's plans are regarding handling axis data
 [15:27:04]  <krh^ neither do I, but the hack you were proposing is much worse than adding a simple passthrough for unknown events to btnx
 [15:29:26]  <aguai> could anyone suggest some document for x.org development
 [15:30:12]  <ajax> i recommend mark danielewski's "house of leaves"
 [15:30:42]  <aguai> house of leaves?
 [15:31:00]  <ajax> possibly also luigi serafini's codex seraphinianus
 [15:31:13]  <ajax> oh, you meant one _about_ X development, not one to read while developing.
 [15:32:27]  <idr> I'm trying to resolve some of the multi-card issues with libpciaccess.
 [15:32:40]  <aguai> ajax: I am thinking of konwing more about the idea of how an xwindow system run
 [15:33:28]  <idr> I have two fully initialized cards in a non-x86 system, and, even though only one exists on xorg.conf, the X server throws up its hands because it can't figure out which one is the primary.
 [15:33:32]  <mjg59> Primer: Seriously. If you have the choice of modifying an application or modifying the X server, it usually means that the application should be modified
 [15:34:00]  <Primer^ sure
 [15:34:11]  <ajax> aguai: i'm not sure what a good reference for that would be, tbh
 [15:34:50]  <aguai> :(
 [15:34:58]  <idr> Opinions on how to fix?
 [15:36:59]  <ajax^ um.  fix the primary selection heuristic?
 [15:37:08]  <daniels> hrngh.  how is GLcore actually _built_ at the moment?
 [15:37:13]  <ajax> dunno really.  not something i'm intimately familiar with, i'd have to go figure it out
 [15:38:06]  <idr^ I guess I'm not sure why "primary" is even relevant.  I'm telling it what device to use...uh...use that one!
 [15:38:07]  <idr> :)
 [15:38:25]  <ajax> yeah, it's a bit goofy
 [15:38:46]  <ajax> so there's two things the 'primary' is for, in the xf86 4.3 sense
 [15:38:54]  <ajax> one is "do i need to softboot this card with int10"
 [15:39:17]  <ajax> the other is "if i see a Device section in the config file with no BusID selected, what device is it talking about"
 [15:39:54]  <daniels> oh, right.  it's built from mesa still, but --with-dri-drivers=glcore bombs out, and there's no way to build the actual correct GLcore from autoconf.  \o/
 [15:40:14]  <idr^ It's way more insane than that.
 [15:40:19]  <ajax> the tragedy is that "should i post or not" is a hard question in a multiseatish world
 [15:40:37]  <idr> daniels: Build some DRI drivers, then do "make glcore && make glcore-install"
 [15:40:43]  <idr> Bong hits.
 [15:41:25]  <idr> And, to make it even worse, 'make glcore-install' will only install libGLcore.so in the "default" place...it completely ignores the pkg config settings.
 [15:41:53]  <anholt> it's as if mesa's install process was a giant pile of fail.
 [15:42:04]  <ajax> yeah, i don't use it.
 [15:42:12]  <mjg59> The bong hits! The bong hits! You die...
 [15:42:17]  <idr> It's now a pile of fail and a pile of suck.
 [15:42:25]  <ajax> i do a vile succession of builds and then manually copy out in %install
 [15:42:47]  <ajax> that way i only have to deal with this shit about once a release
 [15:44:23]  <ajax> i eagerly look forward to adding glcore to the build.  that'll be awesome.
 [15:44:26]  <dberkholz> daniels: 'make glcore; make glcore-install'
 [15:44:42]  <daniels^ yeah, cheers
 [15:45:32]  <daniels> idr: wow, i'm sure glad mesa isn't officially using autoconf.  there's a danger the build may be both shit _and_ working, instead of just the former.
 [15:45:35]  <dberkholz^ take a look at http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/x11.git;a=blob;f=media-libs/mesa-glcore/mesa-glcore-9999.ebuild;h=3b287d9c109d1fcfac16b2f7b734ce58d84e673e;hb=HEAD
 [15:45:57]  <daniels> i wouldn't care about this nearly as much if failure to load GLcore wasn't FatalError
 [15:46:00]  <daniels> #@(*&$)(*@#$
 [15:46:12]  <daniels> at least, up until 15 minutes ago
 [15:46:32]  <dberkholz> and yes, the glcore build is horribly integrated into mesa at the moment
 [15:46:56]  <dberkholz> it's basically just a hack in the top-level makefile that pushes into the glcore directory to build ^ install
 [15:47:46]  <idr> daniels: Indeed. :(
 [15:47:50]  <dberkholz> it makes me manually build libmesa.a too, presumably because of some broken dependencies
 [15:48:31]  <jcristau> i think i'll resign just before i have to update mesa again
 [15:52:27]  <dberkholz> yeah, mesa is the new crap build of the post-imake world
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[16:03:39]  <yaTRAHALtvayoMAT> my penis is on fire
 [16:03:40]  <yaTRAHALtvayoMAT> help me
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[16:04:30]  ***  daniels has been oped by ChanServ.
[16:04:37]  ***  yaTRAHALtvayoMAT has been kicked off chat #xorg-devel by daniels (here's some help: get a fucking life.).
[16:04:38]  ***  daniels has been deoped by daniels.
[16:04:49]  <daniels> god when did this turn into a wasteland
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[16:05:13]  <yaTRAHALtvayoMAT> wtf, i have a problem and instead of help you kick me
 [16:05:30]  <yaTRAHALtvayoMAT> thanks a lot daniels
 [16:05:45]  <marcheu> I don't think anyone here would help you anyway
 [16:05:58]  <yaTRAHALtvayoMAT> why not
 [16:06:26]  <marcheu> because this is a developer channel, and because you should ask on #nvidia
 [16:06:38]  <yaTRAHALtvayoMAT> ok thanks
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[16:06:59]  <jcristau> didn't i say that like an hour ago?
 [16:07:09]  <marcheu> for stupid people, you have to repeat things
 [16:08:00]  <jcristau> oh. like for students, then.
 [16:08:24]  <marcheu> well, that's because most students are stupid
 [16:09:40]  <daniels> fuck! i can't even _build_ this at the moment.
 [16:10:26]  <daniels> xserver bombs because __DRIScreen is undefined (being that DRIScreenRec is only ever defined in dri_util.h, which is never actually installed anywhere).
 [16:10:44]  <daniels> manually including dri_util.h just makes it die because of the lack of setTexOffset & c.
 [16:11:31]  <daniels> oh right, to be fair, i am building server-1.4-branch.  i suck.
 [16:12:22]  <daniels> jcristau: you really want the latest server-1.[45]-branch or master, or whatever.
 [16:12:26]  <daniels> dberkholz: ^^
 [16:12:27]  <daniels> ajax: ^^
 [16:12:36]  <daniels> this makes xkb problems debuggable ... out of the box.  slow down, i know.
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[16:13:33]  <jcristau> daniels: \o/
 [16:14:34]  <marcheu> MrCooper: man do you read all bugs ? you're even on the nouveau ones
 [16:14:49]  <marcheu> I was going to ping you once I was sure, but well ... :)
 [16:17:45]  <dberkholz> daniels: latest 1.4 branch? sure, that's the idea
 [16:23:24]  * daniels chuckles at http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=16408
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[16:26:03]  <idr> Eh...
 [16:26:09]  <idr> Where is option BusID processed?
 [16:26:18]  <idr> I'm looking, but I'm not finding.
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[16:34:45]  <dberkholz> `git grep -i busid` from top level isn't finding you stuff?
 [16:35:14]  <idr^ Not anything that looks related to parsing data out of xorg.conf.
 [16:35:55]  <idr> Man...all of that crap is so convoluted. :(
 [16:37:32]  <daniels^ hw/xfree86/parser/Device.c
 [16:37:37]  <daniels> do a case-insensitive grep for busid
 [16:38:06]  <daniels> it sets dev_busid, and from the looks of grep, this is the other interesting bit:
 [16:38:09]  <daniels> xf86Config.c:    devicep->busID = conf_device->dev_busid;
 [16:39:10]  <idr^ Yeah, I had seen the one in xf86Config.c.
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[16:42:35]  <idr> Neat.
 [16:42:53]  <idr> The code in parser/Device.c isn't getting executed.
 [16:43:05]  <idr> But the other code is.
 [16:43:08]  * idr sighs...
 [16:46:54]  <MrCooper> marcheu: I read the xorg-team list
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[16:47:53]  <marcheu> yeah I know, but you come up with patches for all EXA related issues it seems, before I'm even sure it's EXA related :)
 [16:48:12]  <idr> i has a smart
 [16:48:36]  <idr> 'BusID "PCI:xx:xx:x"' not 'Option "BusID" "PCI:xx:xx:x"'
 [16:49:11]  <MrCooper> marcheu: heh, well it's usually just seeing data that points to something I had thought about but wasn't sure it was important in practice
 [16:49:31]  <marcheu> well in that case firefox seemed pretty stupid
 [16:49:37]  <marcheu> I wouldn't have expected that either
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[17:07:41]  <aaronp> ssp: Did you get my email?  The first one I sent bounced.
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[20:56:18]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[20:56:18]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
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[21:42:54]  <whot> daniels: nevermind -> see 13037.
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[21:53:59]  <daniels> dberkholz: dbn is awesome
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----- [2008-05-08] -----
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[01:21:01]  <vignatti> whot: ping
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[02:04:29]  <whot> vignatti: pong
 [02:06:11]  <vignatti^ http://people.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/tmp/0001-Before-if-we-have-more-than-one-cursor-all-the-curs.patch
 [02:07:15]  <vignatti> I was planning to sleep right now, so I prepared this patch instead poke you before
 [02:07:45]  <whot> ed
 [02:07:48]  <whot> whoops.
 [02:07:58]  <whot> sorry I didn't answer earlier, had the window occluded
 [02:08:20]  <vignatti^ np
 [02:09:43]  <whot> not sure about the first chunk. that code was there before.
 [02:09:57]  <whot> second chunk: we still need to test for SWCursor, since we may not have HW
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[02:10:03]  <whot> third chunk looks good
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[02:12:40]  <vignatti> whot: I don't know if only to me this SWCursor field of xf86CursorScreenPtr seems biased and confuse
 [02:12:47]  <vignatti> maybe we could nuke it out
 [02:13:28]  <vignatti> whot: we don't want always hw cursor? or there would be some situation that we prefer sw?
 [02:13:45]  <whot^ there are situations where we don't have HW cursor I think.
 [02:14:01]  <whot> i.e. a device that can do HW cursor on the first output but not on the second or so
 [02:14:57]  <vignatti^ yes, but then we simple don't load the ramdac module
 [02:15:04]  <vignatti> in that situation
 [02:16:23]  <whot^ I'll have to take your word for it
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[02:19:12]  <vignatti> whot: dude, i have to go sleep
 [02:20:18]  <whot^ no problem. I'll have a closer look at your patch tonight
 [02:20:26]  <vignatti^ btq, do you have more plans to still working with the cursor rendering?
 [02:20:30]  <vignatti> *btw
 [02:21:15]  <vignatti> whot: maybe I can keep the work there for while (try to do silken mouse, etc)
 [02:21:33]  <whot^ no. I want to stay away from it as much as possible :)
 [02:21:48]  <vignatti^ heh, fair enough
 [02:21:57]  <vignatti> okay. Bye Peter
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[02:24:05]  <whot> good night
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[03:27:18]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:49:15]  <dberkholz> alright, i think i've got all my upstreamable crap upstreamed now
 [03:50:24]  <mraudsepp^ I have a few patches I think
 [03:53:40]  <mraudsepp> db9ae8 might be nice
 [03:53:51]  <mraudsepp> and I have one patch that should be gentoo specific, too
 [03:59:07]  <mraudsepp> daniels: db9ae8 looks useful for 1.4 branch?
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[04:30:55]  <mraudsepp> I also have a backport for 4fa89f
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[04:42:25]  <jcristau> mraudsepp: 4fa89f is just cosmetic
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[04:46:30]  <mraudsepp> if under cosmetic you mean it makes geode work without xorg.conf
 [04:46:39]  <mraudsepp> ok, yeah, the backport is for two commits
 [04:46:47]  <mraudsepp> one that adds a PCI ID at all, and then change to geode
 [04:46:56]  <mraudsepp> 1.4 does not have ANY pci id for geode nor amd
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[07:31:38]  <jcristau> is there any reason why drivers don't link directly against libpciaccess?
 [07:33:07]  <mraudsepp> drivers are dlopened by xorg, which has libpciaccess already opened up by the runtime linker, I'd imagine
 [07:36:25]  <jcristau> yeah, but that screws up dependency calculation for my driver packages; there's nothing to make sure the libpciaccess version is new enough, as it's only based on what the server was built against, and the driver might need something newer
 [07:37:45]  <jcristau> i could work around that by rebuilding the server each time the abi of libpciaccess changes, but that's ugly
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[07:41:16]  <MrCooper> jcristau: why does the driver require a minimum libpciaccess version?
 [07:42:37]  <jcristau^ because it might use functions which weren't there in the old version?
 [07:43:08]  <jcristau> (i'm not sure this will be an actual problem, just thinking it might be)
 [07:43:23]  <MrCooper> is it supposed to access libpciaccess directly?
 [07:43:45]  <jcristau> all drivers use libpciaccess directly afaik
 [07:46:14]  <MrCooper> I thought it was all encapsulated in server API
 [07:47:14]  <MrCooper> hmm no, doesn't look like it
 [07:50:38]  <jcristau> some drivers use pci_device_map_range for example, which was added in libpciaccess 0.10 iirc
 [07:51:08]  <mraudsepp> ok, but how does linking help?
 [07:51:29]  <mraudsepp> for added symbols new version without ABI breaks (only additions) DT_NEEDED won't be any different
 [07:51:41]  <MrCooper^ it allows the packaging tools to generate a versioned dependency
 [07:51:45]  <jcristau> DT_NEEDED won't
 [07:52:00]  <mraudsepp> so looking for a configure.in check rather I take it?
 [07:52:01]  <jcristau> but dpkg-shlibdeps will add the needed dependency
 [07:52:23]  <jcristau> which it won't if you don't use -lpciaccess
 [07:54:14]  <mraudsepp> same deal as application that have runtime (optionally used) dlopen, then your dpkg-shlibdeps tool misses those as well?
 [07:54:31]  <jcristau> yes
 [07:55:17]  <daniels> mraudsepp: how on earth would it pick it up?
 [07:56:44]  <mraudsepp> exactly, it doesn't... so the tool is not something that can work always
 [07:57:12]  <jcristau> it is something that would work for Xorg drivers if they were linked against libraries they use
 [07:57:23]  <jcristau> which is what i care about
 [08:00:45]  <mraudsepp> you seemed to also care about the minimum versions of libpciaccess that are needed by the driver. I'm just saying shlibdeps won't know that either way
 [08:00:53]  <jcristau> yes, it will
 [08:01:44]  <mraudsepp> there is no technical possibility for that to my knowledge, given there are no ABI backwards compatibility breaks
 [08:02:22]  <mraudsepp> unless you just presume the minimum version required is the exact major.minor.micro version the binary was built against
 [08:03:15]  <jcristau> the metadata for the libpciaccess package makes it work
 [08:04:52]  <mraudsepp> ah ok, so you have databases of when a symbol was introduced based on ELF symbol information gathered out of various library versions?
 [08:05:05]  <jcristau> pretty much
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[08:07:00]  <mraudsepp> I see. I've personally never seen a dlopened ELF file that links to anything more than glibc. So you want it to have a DT_NEEDED entry for pciaccess and libxrandr and anything it uses
 [08:07:06]  <jcristau> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/lib/libpciaccess.git;a=blob;f=debian/libpciaccess0.symbols
 [08:08:14]  <mraudsepp> (an ELF file that is only meant for usage through dlopen, I mean)
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[11:40:19]  <cbrake> daniels: made a little more progress with the elographics driver, but had to reverse one of the commits: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15875
 [11:41:23]  <cbrake> do you have any idea offhand what might be wrong with the loop in that commit?
 [11:42:02]  <daniels^ peter hutterer is whot on irc, so you could ask him.  to be honest, i have no clue: looks fine here.
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[11:42:55]  <cbrake> daniels: ok, I'll email him
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[12:56:43]  <glisse> 1
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[13:07:22]  <marcheu> 2
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 [13:08:32]  <revx> 4
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[13:10:30]  <jbarnes> that's numberwang
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[13:26:39]  <Amaranth> 9
 [13:26:43]  <Amaranth> oops, missed a few
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[13:52:54]  <int0x0c> Can someone explain to me how this code is valid?
 [13:52:57]  <int0x0c> screen = pDraw->pScreen->myNum;
 [13:53:05]  <int0x0c> AddResource(drawable, __glXSwapBarrierRes, (pointer)screen);
 [13:53:22]  <int0x0c> int screen; by the way
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[13:53:56]  <int0x0c> as far as I can see, _Screen.myNum is an index
 [13:54:12]  <int0x0c> yet for some reason this code thinks it can be casted to a pointer
 [13:54:50]  <int0x0c> I even checked to confirm that the pointer type really is a memory pointer
 [13:54:58]  <Ori_B^ it's not an uncommon trick to store an int in a pointer
 [13:55:07]  <Ori_B> so you don't have to malloc() and free() a single int
 [13:55:24]  <Ori_B> later when it's used, I'd assume they do 'screennum = (int)myresource'
 [13:56:07]  <int0x0c^ Sorry, I'm failing to see how this improves anything
 [13:56:23]  <int0x0c> Why not just declare a local int
 [13:56:34]  <Ori_B> er, what?
 [13:56:42]  <int0x0c^ I don
 [13:57:04]  <int0x0c> How does the fact that the storage type is a pointer change anything here?
 [13:57:26]  <int0x0c> oh
 [13:57:27]  <int0x0c> alright
 [13:57:31]  <int0x0c> I see your point
 [13:57:45]  <int0x0c> sorry, little bit of a brain freeze there
 [13:58:01]  <Ori_B> ok, cool.
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[13:58:45]  <Ori_B> (yeah. it's kind of ugly to store an int in a pointer. it's less ugly than malloc(sizeof(int)) every time you want to store an int in some generic data structure)
 [13:59:03]  <Ori_B> (generics are useful for this, but C doesn't have them... =/)
 [13:59:41]  <int0x0c^ yeah, definitely
 [14:00:36]  <int0x0c> Although is it safe across word sizes?
 [14:00:54]  <int0x0c> The reason I ask is that gcc throws a warning on 64 bit
 [14:00:56]  <Ori_B> erm.
 [14:01:03]  <int0x0c> glxcmds.c:2026: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size
 [14:01:23]  <int0x0c> I guess as long as your int size is smaller or equal to your pointer size
 [14:01:38]  <Ori_B> well, screen is a small number.
 [14:01:45]  <int0x0c> yeah, definitely
 [14:01:56]  <Ori_B> I guess size_t or long is better than int though, if you're going to cast to pointer
 [14:02:02]  <Ori_B> *back to work*
 [14:02:09]  <int0x0c> yep
 [14:02:12]  <int0x0c> alright
 [14:02:13]  <int0x0c> later
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[14:39:29]  <idr> Ori_B: intptr_t?
 [14:40:49]  <Ori_B^ ah, yes.
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[16:59:48]  <hachi> is there an easy test I can run to try ARGB visuals?
 [17:05:14]  <aaronp^ Try http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/argbtest.tar.bz2
 [17:07:13]  <hachi> thanks
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[18:33:21]  <hachi> is composite not complete in 7.2? I can't seem to see why it doesn't render right
 [18:34:24]  <airlied^ that question makes no sense.
 [18:34:56]  <hachi> probably... let me try it from the 2 year old perspective :\
 [18:35:08]  <airlied^ there are server and driver pieces to the rendering pipeline.
 [18:35:20]  <airlied> and some bits may have bugs but it might been in the server or in the driver.
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[18:38:08]  <hachi> then I guess what I want to know is. How do I figure out what part of the system is blocking this from working?
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[18:38:50]  <hachi> I can run the test (and tests, I found some other ways to test it) but they don't render the alpha channel instead leaving everything at 100% opaque
 [18:40:11]  <airlied^ what driver you using?
 [18:40:21]  <vignatti> what was the reason to kill the vga driver? I forgot it..
 [18:40:29]  <airlied^ ISA..
 [18:41:01]  <hachi> radeon, with dri
 [18:41:01]  <vignatti> airlied: VGA only works with ISA?
 [18:41:34]  <airlied^ it works by banging the VGA ISA regs..
 [18:41:49]  <airlied> but really most PCI cards support vesa.
 [18:42:22]  <airlied> hachi: so its probably the driver or you're server is too old.
 [18:42:37]  <airlied> but I'm not sure where that could be broken.
 [18:42:47]  <airlied> you many need a compmgr running
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[18:44:41]  <airlied> hachi: actually I think you do need a compmgr..
 [18:44:46]  <hachi> you're right
 [18:45:01]  <hachi> that's weird that I couldn't find anything saying that :\
 [18:45:46]  <hachi> everything seems okay now, with the exception of my root window... thanks though
 [18:45:52]  <hachi> I'll figure out what failed there :)
 [18:45:59]  <vignatti> airlied: and this registers probably are the same used to do the init of several cards? (as we see when we're trying to set up two or more devices. VGA arbiter bla bla..)
 [18:46:49]  <airlied^ nope, different regs
 [18:48:11]  * vignatti scratches his head
 [18:49:07]  <airlied^ killing vga driver shouldn't affect anything with 2 drivers.
 [18:49:24]  <airlied> the vga driver was mianly designed for cards which used banked memory and all sorts of legacy interfaces
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[18:50:18]  <alanc> wasn't the pciaccess conversion what finally killed the vga driver?
 [18:52:02]  <vignatti> airlied: well, it was exacly what I thought. I just trying to understand if that registers inherited from ISA are the same which cause the problem when 2 devices are on the machine
 [18:52:12]  <vignatti> and I think the answer is yes... right?
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[18:55:31]  <airlied> vignatti: yes those regs are why you need the arbiter.
 [19:04:33]  <vignatti> given that, we can do a good clean up inside xfree86/vgahw
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[20:38:42]  <whot> vignatti: ping
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[20:49:58]  <vignatti> whot: pong
 [20:50:50]  <whot^ had a look at your patch again
 [20:51:07]  <vignatti^ and what's the good news? :)
 [20:51:24]  <whot^ the first chunk should be ditched. it removes functionality that was there before.
 [20:52:28]  <whot> as I understand, if the HW doesn't do transparent cursors, this would cause a regression
 [20:52:58]  <whot> same with the second chunk. I assume there's a reason for the SWCursor flag.
 [20:53:03]  <whot> third chunk is fine
 [20:53:29]  <vignatti^ okay, so in both cases it's just a matter to set up the conditional correctly
 [20:54:40]  <whot^ well, AFAIK you don't even need to touch the first bit
 [20:54:40]  <vignatti^ but you saw the hw cursors together with sw working there? :)
 [20:55:07]  <whot^ haven't tried it yet tbh. will apply it in 10
 [20:56:29]  <vignatti^ fine, but no rushes. With this (tbh, with your last commit) I can work here
 [20:56:44]  <vignatti> thanks for the review
 [20:57:11]  <whot> no worries
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[20:59:26]  <vignatti> whot: the good news here is that I didn't see no hard lock up here so far
 [20:59:33]  <vignatti> I'm using around 1 week.
[20:59:46]  <vignatti> so congrats to you :)
 [20:59:55]  <whot^ cool. any other issues?
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[21:04:50]  <whot> vignatti: especially - any xkb issues?
 [21:06:09]  <vignatti^ I'm not using keyboards so far
 [21:06:42]  <vignatti> are you using gnome as your testbed?
 [21:06:45]  <whot^ pretty tough on the typing then :)
 [21:07:05]  <whot> yeah. standard gutsy and standard FC8, except for mpx
 [21:07:57]  <vignatti^ I don't know for sure, but I think that kmenu (kde) is having some strange behaviour with more then one cursor
 [21:08:16]  <whot^ oh? how comes
 [21:08:51]  <vignatti^ something regarding grabs, maybe. Let me try to reproduce here to tell you the steps
 [21:11:26]  <vignatti> jesus, the cursor sprite with my patch is fucked :(
 [21:11:36]  <whot> hehe
 [21:13:05]  <vignatti^ well I reverted here to reproduce the kde issue
 [21:14:08]  <vignatti> I see that any SD linked with another MD which is not the VCP is not working okay to select the menus in kmenu
 [21:14:58]  <whot^ yes. there isn't much I can do about that
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[21:15:19]  <whot> vignatti: try the following: take another SD, hold-click the K menu and then try to select.
 [21:15:28]  <whot> does that work?
 [21:15:52]  <vignatti^ yeap. Works
 [21:16:39]  <whot^ it's a race condition
 [21:16:43]  <whot> which can't be solved
 [21:17:02]  <whot> what happens is that if you click and release, the kmenu then grabs the pointer (after the release) and thus gets a pointer grab on the VCP
 [21:17:27]  <whot> if you click and wait, the kmenu grabs while you still have a passive grab on the other MD, and thus it gets the grab on the other MD.
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[21:20:40]  <vignatti> whot: humm. And there isn't some kind of 'hint' that we can send to the WM saying that this grab comes from this or that MD?
 [21:21:09]  <vignatti> well, we'd be changing the WM...
 [21:22:13]  <whot^ not easily anyway.
 [21:22:51]  <whot> you could somehow store in the server the last MD that had a passive grab and force active grabs on that.
 [21:23:13]  <whot> except that that makes the behaviour unpredictable. which is much worse than wrong but predictable behaviour
 [21:23:37]  <whot> when it comes down to it - if you want to use multiple mice, use a better WM
 [21:24:07]  <vignatti> heh
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[22:52:25]  <airlied> whot: so the default with mpx for a new device is to bind to the current virtual?
 [22:52:45]  <airlied> and you have some other Xi way to make new virtuals etc.
 [22:53:28]  * airlied forgets the demo at LCA :)
 [23:02:36]  <whot^ yes. yes.
 [23:02:56]  <whot> ChangeDeviceHierarchy request, easiest to use with xinput
 [23:03:01]  <whot> (the tool, not the extension :)
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[23:51:28]  ***  Information about anholt:
[23:51:28]  ***          Profile:
n=anholt@69-30-77-85.dq1sn.easystreet.com (Eric Anholt)
On channels #freebsd-gnome +#dri-devel #freedesktop #xorg-devel #cairo #swfdec #intel-gfx
On server irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/)
anholt is identified to services (320)

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[05:53:00]  <antgel> hi. i see from http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12 that dual-head independent desktops are no longer supported since the move to xrandr.  is it not considered a desirable feature?  i have been using it for years, others have too, and i'm just wondering why we're being left behind (not flaming!)
 [05:55:34]  <daniels^ it's now supported again in both the ati and intel drivers if you really want to do that.
 [05:55:45]  <airlied+ no intel doesn'tdo it yet I don't tnhink.
 [05:55:48]  <airlied> just -ati.
 [05:55:54]  <antgel> daniels: great, i'm using ati :D
 [05:55:58]  <airlied^ the main reason is that it was a dirty hack..
 [05:56:14]  <airlied> and lots of things breaks, like acceleration.
 [05:56:36]  <airlied> in theory we can do that stuff a lot better on top of randr-1.2 instead of the hack it was.
 [05:56:48]  <airlied> but it'll be another while until the server has the feature implemented properly.
 [05:57:01]  <antgel> indeed, accel breaks, but ime that's a small price to pay.  this is a development machine, accel isn't important to me.
 [05:57:07]  <antgel> thanks for the info
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[07:44:49]  <daniels> svu_: does http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15887 look sane?
 [07:50:28]  <jcristau> hmm. we have some other patch for ru_RU.UTF-8/XLC_LOCALE.pre
 [07:50:32]  <jcristau> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/lib/libx11.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/012_ru_RU_UTF-8_XLC_LOCALE.diff;hb=refs/heads/debian-experimental
 [07:53:33]  <jcristau> comes from bugs.debian.org/330144
 [07:54:14]  <daniels> svu_: please decide between the two ;)
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[11:09:34]  <jcristau> daniels: xkbcomp's configure.ac still says 1.0.4 afaict, did you forget to push the version bump?
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[12:32:37]  <svu_> daniels: which "two"?
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[13:25:03]  <dberkholz> daniels: hi, think you might have a chance to pull my patches in the next few days?
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[14:09:34]  <daniels> dberkholz: absolutely
 [14:09:52]  <daniels> svu_: see directly above what i said -- fdo #15887 vs. debian #330144
 [14:09:58]  <daniels> jcristau: oops
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[14:18:27]  <svu_> daniels: what's the difference?
 [14:18:48]  <svu_> the main thing is that ru_RU.UTF-8 is not an alias to en_EN.UTF-8
 [14:22:21]  <daniels^ i'm not entirely sure what the difference is, so i was hoping you could enlighten me. :)
 [14:22:47]  <svu_^ ok, I'll have a look. not that I am familiar with those formats...:)
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[14:24:21]  <svu_> daniels: I suggest being smart and lazy. in fd.o put the reference to the second patch and ask the guy for comments;)
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[14:27:23]  <daniels> heh
 [14:28:12]  * svu_ gives bad advises :)
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[14:32:17]  <theneb> Hi all
 [14:32:32]  <theneb> Does the xorg foundation support the egalax driver?
 [14:34:25]  <ajax> it's not in our repo, so no.
 [14:35:08]  <theneb> ok, are manfacturers allowed to sign the vendor of their module as X.Org Foundation?
 [14:39:18]  <ajax> no.
 [14:39:35]  <ajax> (unless it's something we host and have the source for, of course)
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[14:41:34]  <theneb> The reason I ask is because this is in my log: http://pastebin.com/m6b25b5d5 , this is for an egalax touchscreen
 [14:44:06]  <ajax> where did you get the driver?
 [14:49:58]  <ajax> heh.  yeah, they have a binary in their driver package, but i don't see source anywhere
 [14:52:07]  <ajax> it doesn't look like a derived work of any of the existing drivers, although it'd be fine if it was.
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[14:52:17]  <ajax> nonetheless they should really not claim we wrote it
 [14:53:04]  <theneb> ah ok, does it just need recompiling with a newer X lib?
 [14:53:21]  <theneb> well, xorg server
 [14:53:34]  <ajax> it probably needs more than that to work with newer X servers.
 [14:53:41]  <ajax> half the functions it's calling don't exist anymore
 [14:54:05]  <theneb> :S
 [14:55:02]  <theneb> Well as it stands, the touch screen will communicate Clicks to X, however it won't detect movement
 [15:04:12]  <theneb> Well I've got an email to the manufacturer and just hope they release an update
 [15:04:29]  <theneb> If not, whats the max version of Xorg that will support it?
 [15:05:45]  <ajax> probably 7.0
 [15:05:58]  <ajax> "compiled for 6.9.0", but 7.0 should be ABI-compatible
 [15:06:27]  <theneb> Hmmm, have to check out the machine in question next week. We use multiseating on it and downgrading X might harm that
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[22:09:06]  <jg> morning benh
 [22:09:11]  <benh> hi
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[05:55:40]  <Thunderbird> hi
 [05:56:22]  <Thunderbird> inside wine we use the X Composite extension for offscreen rendering in order to support opengl subwindow rendering
 [05:56:52]  <Thunderbird> (we make an X11 window offscreen render GL to it and copy the data back to the window)
 [05:57:38]  <Thunderbird> this is related to some design decisions in our X11 driver which for a big part caused by oddness of win32 and differences between win32 and x11
 [05:58:25]  <Thunderbird> when a win32 window is created we don't directly create an X11 window and due to this it can happen that a program makes a GL call
 [05:58:38]  <Thunderbird> during that time the 'offscreen window' can be around already but its X11 parent window isn't yet
 [05:59:06]  <Thunderbird> in such cases the root_window is the parent of the offscreen window and this is causing issues with composition managers like Compiz
 [06:00:19]  <Thunderbird> we get BadAccess errors because they are both trying to manage the same window
 [06:01:35]  <Thunderbird> I'm thinking about using the Composite overlay window as the parent
 [06:01:51]  <Thunderbird> is that intended usage? we aren't something like compiz
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 ----- [2008-05-12] -----
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----- Log file opened 2008-05-12T09:54 -----
[09:54:11]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[09:54:11]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
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[13:30:59]  <dberkholz> whot: thanks for converting & updating the xi doc!
 [13:31:43]  <dberkholz> fwiw, i'm all for merging mpx, in part i suspect you won't get enough testers to find any weird bugs till it's in master
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[13:39:01]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: I was looking at merging nsc, last night.  headers already know about all the old PCI ID, so it's just a matter of copying all the gx_* into gx1_* and making it do its math in 16 instead of 32-bit, or did I miss anything?
 [13:39:40]  <CosmicPenguin> That should be a good start
 [13:41:21]  <Q-FUNK> at least, comparing the gx1 and gx2 files from the old nsc driver, the main difference seems to be that gx1 does its math in 16-bit.  or was that just purposely using real mode to access the hardware?
 [13:42:14]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not sure what the thinking is there
 [13:42:16]  <Q-FUNK> of course, the code is out of sync between gx1_* and gx2_* too.  different styling & all
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[13:53:05]  <ajax> 1730 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 546942 deletions(-)
 [13:53:10]  <ajax> now that's a hell of a commit.
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[13:56:26]  <Mercury> ajax: !?
 [13:56:41]  <stillunknown+ That must be one oversized project.
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[14:10:23]  <idr> ajax: Snap!
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[14:15:54]  <Q-FUNK> stillunknown: I believe the word in undersized.
 [14:15:56]  <Q-FUNK> is
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[14:17:19]  <stillunknown> Q-FUNK: It may be now.
 [14:18:14]  <ajax> 151 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 39501 deletions(-)
 [14:18:25]  <ajax> though smaller, that one feels way better.
 [14:18:41]  <Q-FUNK^ sounds scary.
 [14:18:43]  <Mercury+ What are you doing?
 [14:19:08]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xprint/commit/?id=46f6e0d89e2f695e8980b76c7120358e07fe4f74
 [14:19:16]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=1c8bd318fbaf65890ef16fe26c76dd5e6f14dfde
 [14:19:17]  <Q-FUNK> oh. xprint.
 [14:19:19]  <ajax> respectively
 [14:20:04]  <spstarr> wow
 [14:20:06]  <spstarr> :)
 [14:20:07]  <daniels> ajax: you stole my commit :(
 [14:20:10]  <spstarr> instant kill
 [14:20:10]  <marcheu> ajax: your french sucks a bit
 [14:20:25]  <ajax^ "a bit"
 [14:20:31]  <Q-FUNK> une bite
 [14:21:02]  <marcheu^ yeah I can imagine where you learnt your french nos
 [14:21:03]  <marcheu> now*
 [14:21:29]  <daniels> ajax: dude, did you really forget to delete ddxInitGlobals?
 [14:21:33]  <ajax> marcheu: what's the french pronunciation for "X" anyway?  i know in spanish it's equis, which is at least vaguely soundalike with 'ceci', which is the joke.
 [14:22:09]  <ajax> daniels: i just did a sunifdef.  so, yes.
 [14:23:00]  <marcheu^ very similar to the english pronunciation, lemme dig the phonetics notation
 [14:23:17]  <marcheu> I think it'd be "iks"
 [14:23:24]  <Q-FUNK^ meuuuuuuuuuuuuuu non. tu me diras ppl
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[14:24:01]  <Q-FUNK> vivement ginsbarre!
 [14:24:12]  <Q-FUNK> tabarnak!
 [14:24:23]  <ajax> daniels: yeah, sorry about the snipe.  tell you what, you can delete mfb.
 [14:24:42]  <Q-FUNK> aga n thad koju...
 [14:24:46]  <marcheu^ tabarnak is from quebec specifically
 [14:25:08]  <marcheu> we only use it to make fun of quebec people usually
 [14:25:25]  <Q-FUNK^ tu m'en diras tant.  j'pense que mon /whois devrait t'expliquer pourquoi je l'utilise...
 [14:25:41]  <mbalmer> tabarnacle...
 [14:26:03]  <marcheu> Q-FUNK: crisse de tabarnak !
 [14:26:10]  <Q-FUNK> la poutine dans l'sauna, ce lisse! :-P
 [14:26:20]  <mbalmer> marcheu, tu es quebecois?
 [14:26:27]  <marcheu^ thanks fuck, no :)
 [14:26:31]  <jcristau> alsacien. c'est presque pareil
 [14:26:37]  <mbalmer> quebec-quoi???
 [14:26:37]  <Q-FUNK> encore pire
 [14:26:42]  <Q-FUNK> une choucroute!
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[14:27:02]  <Q-FUNK> mbalmer: en plein cyo
 [14:27:15]  <mbalmer> je suis de bale.  presque choucroute ;
 [14:27:28]  <ajax> that'll teach me to use french in a commit message
 [14:27:38]  <Q-FUNK> c'est ce qu'il Jura, devant la foule
 [14:28:12]  <mbalmer> j'etais dans la baroche les derniers jours (ajoie)
 [14:28:20]  <Q-FUNK> bon, s'tie, avec tout ca, m'a manquer mon bus, joual vert!
 [14:28:26]  <Q-FUNK> a+
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[14:40:15]  <daniels> ajax: nah, i'm not that upset. :)
 [14:40:24]  <daniels> i wouldn't want to rob you of .fb
 [14:41:12]  <daniels> ps: see what you've done? (re: french)
 [14:41:21]  <ajax> 14:27 < ajax> that'll teach me to use french in a commit message
 [14:41:55]  <daniels> use of the phrase 'language of diplomacy' will merit a /kb
 [14:46:52]  <OgreBoy> Q-FUNK: hmm. translation, please? it *looks* like you said, "well, after all that, my bus is still missing, <something> green" .. :)
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[15:30:13]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: ping
 [15:30:45]  <ajax^ sup yo
 [15:31:25]  <CosmicPenguin^ the OLPC guys want to be able to set lower resolution screen modes and then use the GPU to scale the output
 [15:31:37]  <CosmicPenguin> so you could switch to say 320x200 for doom
 [15:31:53]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not sure what the correct way to do that would be
 [15:32:18]  <ajax> randr 1.2 has a provision for this.
 [15:32:32]  <ajax> you get a property on the output that lets you choose how you want to scale
 [15:32:56]  <ajax> for most hardware you get the usual 1:1 / aspect / stretch choices
 [15:33:08]  <ajax> the downside is this requires redoing your output setup path
 [15:33:19]  <CosmicPenguin> and supporting 1.2
 [15:34:17]  <daniels> i'm not really sure that counts as a downside
 [15:34:29]  <ajax^ you haven't looked at geode output setup, have you.
 [15:34:35]  <ajax> it's a bit hairy.
 [15:34:53]  <ajax> i mean, yes, 1.2 is a better fit, but it's still effort to port to.
 [15:35:32]  <daniels^ this is not something i'm ashamed of
 [15:35:34]  <CosmicPenguin> There is much breakage and few resources
 [15:35:40]  <ajax> the other thing you could do is just define classic randr support on your chip to be scaled
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[15:36:02]  <ajax> possibly controlled through config file option or stealing the relevant pieces of sisctrl
 [15:36:37]  <CosmicPenguin> we do have classic randr
 [15:38:15]  <daniels^ much breakage and few resources sounds rather similar
 [15:38:29]  <daniels> bonus points for pretty much your sole resource being godawfully sick. \o/
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[15:41:55]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: you have me beat.. :(
 [15:44:56]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: Can I do something stupid like hijack the virtual screen, and automagically scale it if it is < the panel resolution
 [15:45:38]  <ajax> that's more or less what i meant by "define classic randr ...", yeah.
 [15:45:53]  <ajax> you'd have to hope you figured out the panel size right at startup, but you have that problem anyway.
 [15:46:30]  <CosmicPenguin> Yeah, we have to deal with that
 [15:49:10]  <ajax> basically you'd pull everything fun out of LXSetVideoMode() and do that all once at startup, and then replace it with something that just munges the scaler
 [15:49:31]  <ajax> okay, startup and VT-enter.  details.
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[15:56:43]  <Dr_Jakob> ls
 [15:56:47]  <Dr_Jakob> ops
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[15:59:51]  <CosmicPenguin> hmm - this is getting more complex
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[16:37:31]  <jasonlife> I noticed from lspci that one of my video card has "function" enabled in it BUS id.  Can I configure two Device sections from single card with different funcion?  (e.g:  00:01:0 and 00:01:1)
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[17:28:10]  <idr> jasonlife: That usually only happens if there are two PCI devices physically on one chip.
 [17:28:24]  <idr> Or at the very least on the same card.
 [17:29:34]  <jasonlife^ Is there a card that provides two busid, but has one PCI devices physically?
 [17:31:17]  <jasonlife> i'm little confuse.. Can I run two monitor from my card having two BUSID?  It doesn't work for now..
 [17:31:25]  <idr^ There are some that have the function number different, but not a completely different bus ID.
 [17:31:39]  <idr> Most Radeon chips have a .1 function for the second head, for example.
 [17:31:57]  <marcheu> firemv 2400 has 2 pciids for the 2 chips for example
 [17:32:09]  <jasonlife> Oh.. Then two separate Device/Screen sections won't work... right?
 [17:32:31]  <airlied> the second function isn't a head
 [17:32:35]  <airlied> its more of an ass.
 [17:32:42]  <airlied> it doesn't mean anything.
 [17:32:54]  <jasonlife> I see..
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[17:33:06]  <marcheu> airlied: on the firemv 2400 it is 2 chips..
 [17:33:34]  <airlied^ its not a second function its a second device
 [17:33:43]  <marcheu> ah
 [17:35:02]  <airlied> the second function is just because the Window device model sucked.
 [17:35:06]  <jasonlife> I thought there are two controllers because lspci show that one is "VGA controller" and another is "Display controller".
 [17:35:20]  <aaronp> Hey ajax, sorry to be a pest, but did you get a chance to look at my patch for bug 14692?
 [17:36:50]  <airlied> jasonlife: nope..
 [17:37:22]  <jasonlife^ i see.  thx
 [17:37:22]  <ajax> aaronp: no, i hadn't.  one sec...
 [17:37:25]  <airlied> jasonlife: Win2k driver model needs two devices..
 [17:37:35]  <airlied> so it can do dual-head because they messed up.
 [17:38:02]  <airlied> so instead of fixing the OS, MS made the device manufacturers hack the hardware
 [17:38:14]  <ajax> aaronp: looks good.
 [17:38:25]  <jasonlife> hahaha..  Money can do anything..
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[17:38:43]  <airlied> wierdly Win98 could do dual-head without the second device.
 [17:38:49]  <airlied> WinNT kernel ftl
 [17:39:40]  <aaronp> ajax: Awesome, thanks.  I'll go ahead and push it.
 [17:40:51]  <idr> jasonlife: What card is this?
 [17:41:00]  <aaronp> airlied: NVIDIA chips don't do that.  I'm not sure how the driver manages to work in Windows, but it's clearly not really necessary.
 [17:41:05]  <jasonlife> I965GM
 [17:41:13]  <jasonlife> idr: I965GM
 [17:41:26]  <idr> Some *old* 3dlabs card would show separate PCI IDs for the geometry chip, the rasterizer, and the VGA.
 [17:41:32]  <idr> jasonlife: Weird.
 [17:42:13]  <ajax> all intel chips have two functions, at least from i830 forward
 [17:42:26]  <jasonlife> I just tried dual-head on my laptop, and found there are two busid.. So I wondered..
 [17:42:51]  <airlied> aaronp: wierd.. you guys probably replce a large part of the OS with you're driver :)
 [17:42:53]  <jasonlife> dual-head didn't work with two screen sections by the way..
 [17:43:03]  <airlied^ it doesn't on intel driver anymore.
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[17:43:48]  <jasonlife> airlied: Yes.. i found intel dropped "monitorlayout" option and doesn't support zaphod..
 [17:44:21]  <jasonlife> That's why I tried with two screen section with different busid..
 [17:45:39]  <ajax> two screen sections with different busids _is_ zaphod mode.
 [17:46:27]  <jasonlife^ I meant two screen from dual-head card with "Screen" option..
 [17:47:35]  <jasonlife> like  BusID 1:0:0   Screen 0    and   BusID 1:0:0   Screen 1
 [17:47:46]  <airlied^ that is zxaphod
 [17:48:12]  <ajax+ let's start over.  why is dualhead not working for you?
 [17:48:18]  <jasonlife> airlied: oh.. I didn't know that.. thx..
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[17:49:26]  <jasonlife> ajax:  I used to use zxaphod with i810 driver..  and "intel" dropped zxaphod support..
 [17:49:53]  <jasonlife> I know I can use xrandr, but I want to run two desktop for testing..
 [17:50:16]  <Ori_B^ you're aware of Xephyr and/or Xnest?
 [17:50:27]  <Ori_B> they let you run an X server inside a window, so you can test in that
 [17:51:38]  <jasonlife^ thanks.. I will try that..  I kind of worried about the stability of those servers..
 [17:51:58]  <anholt> xephyr should be way better than zaphod mode ever was.
 [17:52:41]  <jasonlife^ is it?  I heard it doesn't support all X extensions..
 [17:52:52]  <Ori_B^ that'd be Xnest, yes.
 [17:53:02]  <Ori_B> Xephyr should support all the interesting ones, AFAIK
 [17:53:28]  <jasonlife> Oh.. I should try Xephyr.. :).. thanks..
 [17:56:23]  <jasonlife> By the way, has zxaphod mode been obsoleted.. ?
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[18:04:41]  <idr> WTF?  16 *THOUSAND* lines of fbdev code?
 [18:04:47]  <idr> What is wrong with Via?!?
 [18:05:11]  <idr> Stay tuned for the XFree86 4.3 drivers to be posted...
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[19:42:07]  <whot> dberkholz: no worries. I figured it's less painful to doclift and add my stuff than learn the .ms markup language
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[21:43:04]  <philips> A manufacturer is asking me what to use to test new Xorg drivers.  Is Xtest the right place to point them?  http://wiki.x.org/wiki/BuildingXtest   Or is there a more up to date testing suite?
 [21:53:45]  <jg^ heh.... XTest is an extension used to synthesize input events, to test applications, not test X servers.
 [21:54:22]  <DrNick> rendercheck
 [21:54:23]  <jg> philips: the right answer is the X test suite, along with the rendertest tests that cover most of the new rendering extension.
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[21:57:20]  <alanc> jg: the poorly named BuildingXtest page in the wiki is about the X Test Suite, not the Xtest extension
 [21:57:54]  <alanc> though it still talks about checking out from cvs - did we never move XTS to git?
 [21:58:24]  <airlied^ don't think so..
 [21:58:41]  <alanc> so for philips: I'd say yes, that plus rendercheck and the test code in xrandr now
 [21:59:00]  <jg^ seems like a rename of that page is in order.
 [21:59:31]  <jg> that page naming is broken in so many ways....
 [22:00:05]  <alanc> yeah, XTS needs love in so many ways, wiki naming being the least
 [22:00:42]  <jg> heh.  you are right of course...
 [22:02:14]  <alanc> x11perf also serves as a stress test of core drawing routines in black-and-white - make sure you can draw 10 million lines without crashing or leaking so much memory the server falls over, but it's performance numbers have little meaning today in desktops that do almost no monochrome core rendering
 [22:03:29]  <jg> heh.  leaking *no* memory....
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[22:11:20]  <philips> alanc: jg: DrNick: thanks
 [22:16:03]  <jg^ encourage your friends to help improve the state of the X test suite; it could use further loving....
 [22:17:38]  <philips^ Yes, I will.  It took me a good 30 minutes to figure out how to get it running :(
 [22:18:11]  <jg^ feel yourself fortunate; it's previous state was it took hours/days to get it running.
 [22:18:29]  <jg> the simpler the test stuff is to install/run; the more people will be running it routinely.
 [22:18:44]  <alanc> there was discussion at the dev summit on needing to improve things there - even getting it to the point where tinderbox could run it as part of the build cycle without any manual setup
 [22:19:08]  <jg^ sorry I had to miss the summit, but at least Chris Ball made it.
 [22:19:34]  <jg> I was dealing with doctors, and loathe to be far from home.
 [22:19:44]  <alanc> understandable
 [22:19:45]  <jg> as it turned out, I was exceedingly wise.
 [22:20:17]  <jg> 6 hours before I was due for my second round of surgery, I had a stone attack; this was the Monday after the developer's summit.
 [22:20:57]  <alanc> Chris's talk was the one about getting XTS & other tests into the tinderbox cycles, there was also talk of how much lack of testing was hurting the release work in ajax's "So why is the release slipping?" talk
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[22:21:01]  <jg> thankfully, they were able to get me into the operating room an hour or two early, as there had been a cancellation.
 [22:21:22]  <jg> yup.
 [22:21:49]  <alanc> ouch, hope you're doing better now
 [22:21:53]  <jg> so now I'm 13 stones lighter ;-).
 [22:22:16]  <jg> (6 in one, 7 in the other).
 [22:22:24]  <jg> I was a walking timebomb.
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[22:23:24]  <jg> the thing about stones is they don't bug you until they bug you more than you can imagine.  They are an all-or-nothing problem.
 [22:23:37]  <jg> so it isn't as if I've been in long term pain or discomfort.
 [22:24:28]  <jg> so i was feeling fine before all this, and after all this, and the surgery just reduced the misery down to a couple instances, rather than 13 of them.
 [22:25:01]  <jg> better to deal with them, than play roulette.
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----- [2008-05-13] -----
 [00:03:07]  <whot> alanc_away: thx for the strcasestr fix. didn't realise that
 [00:06:15]  <eboettcher> airlied: keep up the good work on that non-root xserver ^.^
 [00:06:19]  <spstarr> ya
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[01:08:32]  <dfeuer> So...  Switching my config to let evdev manage my keyboard fixed the ctrl-minus and ctrl-0 problem, as well as the LED problem, but then of course the GNOME keyboard config utility wouldn't do anything useful, so other stuff broke.....
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[01:22:14]  <whot> dfeuer: you need to convince gnome to not override anything
 [01:22:25]  <whot> i.e. take X settings rather than GNOME settings
 [01:23:33]  <dfeuer> ?
 [01:23:41]  <dfeuer> Sorryomeone
 [01:23:51]  <dfeuer> ummt: Leaving Call this screwy
 [01:24:02]  <dfeuer> Those should be periodsss you
 [01:24:27]  <dfeuer> I can get things to be sane by  just setxkbmap dvorak,
 [01:25:05]  <dfeuer> but then Fn-home and Fn-end no longer change screen brightness as they do with the default config...
 [01:25:49]  <dfeuer> I don't know enough about the different components involved to make them do my bidding :-/
 [01:26:47]  <dfeuer> Are there several different X keyboard configuration systems running around interfering with each other?
 [01:27:46]  <dfeuer> But I guess that's for #xorg.
 [01:28:08]  <dfeuer> I wanted to report that ctrl-minus and ctrl-0 work with evdev, though not with the default config.
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[03:29:00]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[11:05:03]  <jcristau> is someone dealing with the openssl vuln on *.fd.o?
 [11:08:16]  <ajax> yes.
 [11:08:27]  <jcristau> ok, thanks
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[11:15:44]  <jasonlife> If I setup dual-head with xrandr, does X have two ScrnInfoRec for each active screen?
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[11:20:43]  <ajax> jasonlife: no.
 [11:21:51]  <jasonlife> What structure does each active screen create then?
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[11:46:25]  <ajax> well crap.
 [11:46:45]  <ajax> so i know no one will care about this bug, but it exists and i have someone complaining about it, so i'm wondering what the solution is.
 [11:47:20]  <ajax> XAllocColor() calls into FindColor() in the server.  colors are refcounted.  the refcount is a signed short.
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[11:47:41]  <ajax> thus, if you AllocColor(black) enough times, eventually you get some random color back.
 [11:51:05]  <Mercury^ Is the refcount exposed to the X protocol?
 [11:51:15]  <ajax> kinda?
 [11:51:20]  <Mercury+
[11:51:28]  <ajax> the protocol says that they're refcounted and that the server will do the right thing.
 [11:51:39]  <Mercury> Ah, so why can't we just make the refcount an int?
 [11:51:43]  <ajax> technically it doesn't allow AllocColor to throw BadAlloc.
 [11:51:47]  <ajax> even though it does.
 [11:51:53]  <ajax> well, it's driver ABI.
 [11:52:03]  <ajax> i don't know that anyone _uses_ that bit of driver ABI, but it is there.
 [11:52:31]  <Mercury> So it would have to be a major release to be safe, even though the compiler is probably padding the struct to hold an int anyhow for alignment reasons. (Though, that will probably vary on some systems.)
 [11:52:47]  <ajax> (also: signed short?  fascists.)
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[11:56:42]  <ajax> hmm.  X's Bool type is an int.
 [11:56:58]  <ajax> and the union before it in the struct is going to be padded to the nearest 32-bit boundary.
 [11:57:26]  <ajax> so we _could_ make it a uint32_t without changing structure size.  although it'd change semantics.
 [11:57:29]  <DrNick> pahole is useful for looking at this kind of madness, btw
 [11:58:48]  <ajax> which would merely make the bug take ~1d to trigger instead of ~1s
 [11:59:09]  <DrNick> why are they allocating colors so quickly?
 [11:59:14]  <ajax> because their app is broken.
 [11:59:30]  <ajax> strictly, they're not doing it that fast, just the testcase is.
 [11:59:39]  <ajax> in the app this doesn't happen for weeks on end.
 [12:00:11]  <ajax> now why they AllocColor every time, yes, that's because the app is dumb.  but the protocol does give the app license to be dumb here.
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[12:03:04]  <DrNick> you basically need per-client refcounts or something equally retarded like that and something somewhere is still going to be broken
 [12:05:21]  <ajax> strictly, that'd be fine, because we can't ever do 2^32 clients
 [12:05:36]  <ajax> hell, we can't do 2^29 clients.
 [12:05:52]  <DrNick> well, a single client can allocate that color 2^32 times
 [12:06:26]  <DrNick> alternately, make it a uint64_t
 [12:07:11]  <ajax> BUT MY VAX yeah okay
 [12:07:25]  <DrNick> what? it's not like it needs to be atomic
 [12:07:29]  <ajax> if only the protocol didn't require us to refcount per-client.
 [12:08:04]  <ajax> if it was just an edge trigger then you could just make it a client resource and do the refcount then and you'd be protected from int32 overflow by the XID ceiling.
 [12:08:23]  <ajax> DrNick: just that 64-bit ints on shitty machines will be slow.
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[12:09:27]  <ajax> see this is why refcounting sucks.
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[12:30:21]  <jg> ajax: have any idea who is taking care of planet.fd.o?
 [12:33:53]  <MrCooper+ that would still break on big endian, wouldn't it?
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[12:50:24]  <ajax> MrCooper: yeah, it might.  i mean, i care less there, but yeah.
 [12:50:47]  <ajax> it's not actually consumed ABI in any of the open drivers, and the closed ones don't exist on big-endian.
 [12:51:06]  <ajax> jg: me, usually.
 [12:51:29]  <jg^ could you point my blog to http://gettys.wordpress.com/?
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[12:52:22]  <jg> someone broke in and defaced my wordpress installation (I haven't had time to keep it up to date), and my upgrade did not go smoothly to fix it. So I'm punting to where it becomes someone else's problem :-).
 [12:52:56]  <jg> sigh... :-(.
 [12:53:14]  <ajax> done, should be picked up next time the planet updates
 [12:54:51]  <vignatti> airlied: multi-card is not working on upstream due pciaccess rework which doesn't has a mechanism to enable/disable secondary cards
 [12:55:00]  <vignatti> (i'm talking about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446042)
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[16:54:54]  <dberkholz> ajax: if you're doing planet stuff, could you tag "/atom" onto the end of my feed so it gets the title right?
 [16:55:05]  <dberkholz> oops, that was 4 hours ago
 [16:55:41]  <vignatti> ^^^^^^ I have this problem as well
 [16:57:58]  <airlied^ yeah I noticedd lack of post hooking :)
 [16:58:09]  <airlied> I might have to look into fixing that somehow..
 [17:01:47]  <vignatti^ i talked with ajax and probably an external tool -- multi-card aware -- to setup and post video cards would be great
 [17:02:24]  <vignatti> maybe a vbetool-like
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[17:03:25]  <airlied> vignatti: yes that would be nice in the long run..
 [17:03:33]  <airlied> I think I need to fix F9 though ;-)
 [17:03:58]  <vignatti^ heh good luck :)
 [17:05:38]  <airlied^ but a vbetool on top of vga arb stuff would rock.
 [17:05:45]  <airlied> where is latest vga arb kerne stuff btw?
 [17:06:26]  <vignatti^ http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/gitweb?p=multiseat/vga-module.git;a=summary
 [17:07:03]  <airlied^ I might start reviewing it properly soon. :)
 [17:07:09]  <airlied> I have some time and I'd like it in F10..
 [17:07:46]  <vignatti^ I'm retaking this work right now with some friends here at uni. So probably until F10 we can have more news regarding this
 [17:07:59]  <vignatti> I'll let you informed
 [17:08:07]  <airlied^ cool..
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[17:16:31]  <vignatti> btw, to learn how those secondary cards post/setup works I removed the x86emu + vm86 code inside X server and had put it as a library. Maybe this could be removed from upstream X server as well and linked with that library
 [17:16:52]  <airlied^ hehe there is already a libx86 project :)
 [17:17:03]  <airlied> ask mjg59 if you can see him.
 [17:17:06]  <vignatti> I think that someone with more experience (hi airlied) could tkae a look at this thing
 [17:17:18]  <vignatti> airlied: yeah, I already talked with him about this
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[17:18:31]  <vignatti> airlied: what I did was a pretty procedural work just setting the auto build tools there and linked X server against it
 [17:18:38]  <vignatti> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/libx86/
 [17:18:41]  <dberkholz> that reminds me, i still need to split out libxf86config..
 [17:19:22]  <vignatti> airlied: and mjg59 gave me an 'okay' about this all
 [17:21:23]  <Q-FUNK^ coreboot people also maintian their form of vm86 and x86emu.  they wanted to merge back and comaintian this.  you might wanna talk to them.
 [17:23:16]  <vignatti^ yes sure. That's the reason why of the "libfication" :)
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[17:26:45]  <Q-FUNK> vignatti: libification doesn't directly imply getting around merging everyone's changes and comaintaining the result.
 [17:28:09]  <vignatti^ but is the first step ;)
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[18:14:05]  <vignatti> airlied: i'm just reading your post now. Awesome
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----- [2008-05-14] -----
 [00:07:36]  <vignatti> is ramdac module used for something else besides hw cursor?
 [00:14:32]  <airlied^ ramdac support :)
 [00:15:00]  <airlied> now what cards might still needs explicit ramdac support I've no idea.
 [00:16:01]  <vignatti^ seems that only glint and s3 call RamDacInit()
 [00:17:13]  <vignatti> and also tga driver
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[00:23:54]  <whot> what is ramdac anyway?
 [00:25:31]  <airlied^ its old skool :), DACs used to have RAM which was used to do color lookup
 [00:25:36]  <airlied> nowadays that stuff is in the crtcs..
 [00:26:12]  <vignatti^ and digital displays don't need it correctly?
 [00:26:17]  <airlied^ btw whats the git URL?
 [00:26:28]  <airlied> for the vga stuff.. you gave me gitweb.
 [00:26:36]  <airlied> but I'm failing on finding out what to clone
 [00:26:49]  <airlied> vignatti: well all displays needs it hence why it got put into the crtc now
 [00:27:03]  <vignatti> http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/gitweb?p=multiseat/vga-module.git;a=summary
 [00:27:04]  <airlied> I think some RAMDAC musta also done cursor overlaying.
 [00:27:13]  <vignatti> this URL isn't working for you?
 [00:27:20]  <airlied> I can't clone that :)
 [00:27:25]  <airlied> its gitweb..
 [00:27:25]  <vignatti> just a sec.
 [00:29:57]  <vignatti> git-clone http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/pub/scm/multiseat/vga-module.git
 [00:30:18]  <vignatti> airlied: and there's some informations here:
 [00:30:19]  <vignatti> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/VgaArbiter
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[00:30:22]  <airlied> vignatti: thanks..
 [00:30:26]  <vignatti> np
 [00:33:45]  <vignatti> is xf86 loader wise enough to just load the required symbols of a module or not?
 [00:34:32]  <airlied^ its just normal libdl now
 [00:34:44]  <airlied> so it just acts like a shared lib
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[00:40:19]  <whot> airlied: forgive my ignorance. what are DACs? something-something-controller I guess?
 [00:42:28]  <airlied> Digital-Analog Convertor
 [00:43:12]  <vignatti> whot: wikipedia article is good enough
 [00:45:40]  <whot> airlied: ok, that was my next guess. right after something-something :)
 [00:46:51]  <whot> vignatti: thx. I think I know nuff about them, just wasn't sure if DAC actually meant what I thought it did. always seen it written as D/A
 [00:50:57]  <vignatti^ np
 [00:51:17]  <vignatti> I would like to know if someone knows all the acronyms inside the X code :)
 [00:52:43]  <whot^ I think there's a glossary somewhere, but it only covers half the terms
 [01:06:18]  <whot> damnit. i need a tablet
 [01:07:23]  <vignatti> ?
 [01:10:27]  <whot^ graphics tablet. I'm messing with code that I can't test.
 [01:12:37]  <vignatti^ btw, I still not understood that XF86_FORCE_SW_CURSOR logic
 [01:13:03]  <whot^ logic? ;)
 [01:13:28]  <vignatti> heh, yeah
 [01:13:58]  <whot^ lemme see
 [01:14:25]  <whot> so the flag is necessary because in some cases SWCursor is TRUE, but then overridden by the code in xf86CursorSetCursor
 [01:14:47]  <whot> if we have multiple cursors, we can't afford to override this, hence the flag.
 [01:15:19]  <whot> for what you want to do (first cursor always in HW), we don't need the flag, you just check for inputInfo.pointer
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[01:16:28]  <vignatti> whot: the only case which SWCursor is TRUE is when VCP is created, isn't?
 [01:17:52]  <vignatti> btw, in xf86DeviceCursorInitialize() you can take away that ScreenPriv->SWCursor test, because is redundancy
 [01:19:00]  <vignatti> and there still the xf86DeviceCursorUndisplay() unused header..
 [01:19:14]  <whot> d'oh
 [01:19:51]  <whot> so - the swcursor test is not redundant. if the cursor is SW anyway, the call ain't needed
 [01:21:23]  <whot> header is removed, will be pushed soon
 [01:21:25]  <vignatti^ how? The only function that cat set SWCursor before xf86DeviceCursorInitialize() is xf86InitCursor() when VCP is created
 [01:21:38]  <vignatti> s/cat/can
 [01:25:31]  <whot^ seriously, if you think it's wrong and it works without, I'll merge any patch you send my way.
 [01:25:59]  <whot> I don't know the interaction between the bits too well, so I'm working after the "if it works it ain't broken" principle :)
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[01:26:59]  <vignatti> whot: heh, okay. I'll probably take a look at this tomorrow for fun
 [01:27:12]  <whot^ weird concept of fun :)
 [01:29:11]  <spstarr_home> airlied: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=305330
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[01:30:09]  <vignatti> airlied: lately everything that is different from my academic things is fun, you know..
 [01:33:16]  <whot> tell me about it.
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[01:41:55]  <spstarr_> ugh redoing.. i didnt set  break at right time
 [01:46:16]  <spstarr_> setting breakpoint DRIGetDrawableInfo
 [01:47:12]  <spstarr_> doing single step
 [01:49:29]  <spstarr_> it goes though
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[01:50:34]  <spstarr_> airlied: anything you want me to do while I'm stepping though
 [01:52:26]  <airlied> keep going till it segvs
 [01:53:53]  <spstarr_> guess i have to hold enter
[01:54:02]  <airlied^ just disqable the break point.
 [01:54:12]  <airlied> when it SEGVs have a look
 [01:55:28]  <spstarr_> 761         pScreen = drawable->base.pDraw->pScreen;
 [01:55:36]  <spstarr_> i tripped it again
 [01:55:44]  <airlied^ what file?
 [01:55:46]  <spstarr_> glxdri.c:761
 [01:56:06]  <airlied> wierd..
 [01:56:19]  <airlied> print drawable
 [01:56:35]  <airlied> print *drawable
 [01:56:36]  <airlied> even.
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[01:58:34]  <spstarr_> sec
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[02:00:40]  <whot> wow. the CPU load of the host rendering the ssh session is higher than the cpu load of the host doing the compile...
 [02:01:47]  <airlied^ welcome to X :)
 [02:03:19]  <spstarr_> i redid it this time
 [02:03:24]  <spstarr_> and it came back with
 [02:03:40]  <spstarr_> 49          PrivateRec *rec = *privates
 [02:03:43]  <spstarr_> privates.h:49
 [02:03:49]  <spstarr_> looks bogus
 [02:04:16]  <whot> ps
 [02:04:19]  <airlied> spstarr_: looks better.
 [02:04:19]  <whot> whoops
 [02:04:25]  <airlied> spstarr_: more like what I expected.
 [02:04:36]  <airlied> does info local show anything?
 [02:05:23]  <spstarr_> sec again, i let it continue, will reproduce
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[02:09:54]  <spstarr_> reproduced
[02:10:01]  <spstarr_> i = <value optimized out>
 [02:10:04]  <spstarr_> nothing useful
 [02:10:06]  <spstarr_> next?
 [02:10:20]  <spstarr_> same point : 49          PrivateRec *rec = *privates;
 [02:10:48]  <airlied> go up a level
 [02:11:00]  <spstarr_> i note, to trip this it seems to be random, turning on composite then off sometimes causes this, or switching texture qualities will trip it
 [02:11:09]  <spstarr_> up:
 [02:11:10]  <spstarr_> 763         retval = DRIGetDrawableInfo(pScreen, drawable->base.pDraw, index, stamp,
 [02:11:18]  <spstarr_> glxdri.c
[02:11:48]  <airlied> okay print pScreen and see does it look maybe right.
 [02:11:57]  <spstarr_> $1 = (ScreenPtr) 0xfcec8100
 [02:12:11]  <airlied> looks like a possibly valid pointer..
 [02:12:25]  <spstarr_> yes
 [02:12:28]  <airlied> print drawable->base
 [02:12:40]  <spstarr_> no context
 [02:13:17]  <airlied> print *(__GLXDRIdrawable *)data
 [02:13:47]  <spstarr_> nothing looks odd
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[02:14:34]  <airlied> print DRIScreenPrivKey
 [02:14:41]  <spstarr_> $6 = (DevPrivateKey) 0x6c6310
 [02:15:04]  <airlied> print DRIWindowPrivKey
 [02:15:15]  <spstarr_> $7 = (DevPrivateKey) 0x6c6314
 [02:15:26]  <airlied> damn everything looks mostly okay..
 [02:15:30]  <airlied> wait a sec
 [02:15:45]  <spstarr_> sure thing
 [02:17:12]  <spstarr_> one thing looks odd:   in DRIGetDrawableInfo  index and stamp are the same?
 [02:17:24]  <spstarr_> (gdb) print index
 [02:17:24]  <spstarr_> $8 = (unsigned int *) 0xa399af0
 [02:17:24]  <spstarr_> (gdb) print stamp
 [02:17:24]  <spstarr_> $9 = (unsigned int *) 0xa399af8
 [02:17:28]  <spstarr_> er no
 [02:17:33]  <spstarr_> f0, f8 I'm blind
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[02:18:09]  <airlied> spstarr_: have to construct the print .. another sec :)
 [02:18:28]  <spstarr_> :)
 [02:19:23]  <airlied> print *(WindowPtr)((__GLXDRIdrawable *)data)->base.pDraw
 [02:19:44]  <spstarr_> pastebinning
 [02:22:49]  <spstarr_> http://fpaste.org/paste/2153
 [02:23:18]  <spstarr_> data = 0x1ffffff!
 [02:23:24]  <airlied> looks like ass..
 [02:23:27]  <spstarr_> now that looks bad
 [02:23:40]  <airlied^ oh that would be bad..
 [02:24:13]  <spstarr_> y = -32257 ?
 [02:24:32]  <spstarr_> or is this offscreen coordinates
 [02:24:38]  <airlied> its all garbage.
 [02:24:53]  <airlied> print data gives garbage?
 [02:25:10]  <spstarr_> $11 = (void *) 0xa6ef500
 [02:25:18]  <airlied> hmm look okay..
 [02:25:38]  <airlied> print *(WindowPtr)(((__GLXDRIdrawable *)data)->base.pDraw)
 [02:25:42]  <airlied> spstarr_: try that maybe.
 [02:25:49]  <airlied> I mighta gotten the casting wrong.
 [02:25:55]  <spstarr_> garbage
 [02:26:25]  <airlied> so lets go bit by bit, *(__GLXDRIdrawable *)data
 [02:26:48]  <spstarr_> that doesn't look garbage pastebin...
 [02:27:34]  <spstarr_> http://fpaste.org/paste/2154
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[02:28:29]  <airlied> spstarr_: hmm not so sure about that..
 [02:28:43]  <spstarr_> something looks bad there?
 [02:28:55]  <airlied> well XAAPutImage isn't swapBuffers
 [02:28:56]  <spstarr_> other than destroy = 0x9cc50f8
 [02:28:59]  <spstarr_> hmm
 [02:29:57]  <MrCooper> XAAPutImage and XAACopyArea? That doesn't look right
 [02:30:38]  <spstarr_^ We're debugging that dri locking issue
[02:30:48]  <MrCooper> I figured
 [02:31:27]  <spstarr_> i dont know any of the code, so, i have no clue :-)
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[02:33:53]  <MrCooper> looks like memory corruption to me, maybe due to bad refcounting
 [02:34:27]  <airlied^ yeah or freeing something in wrong order.
 [02:35:44]  * spstarr_ is surprised this does not occur using gnome/compiz desktop-effects
 [02:36:01]  <airlied> I think KDE might be doing things in different order.
 [02:36:08]  <spstarr_> but that doesnt allow one to readjust texture quality when your already using composite
 [02:36:41]  <spstarr_> did you try to enable kwin composite then change texture quality?
 [02:36:51]  <spstarr_> (then disable composite and or reenable?)
 [02:36:54]  <airlied^ yup on my r300, but I didn't do it a lot.
 [02:37:00]  <spstarr_> ah
 [02:37:21]  <spstarr_> I'm wondering if this occurs in kde 4.0's kwin and 4.1
 [02:37:35]  <airlied> well at least I can see the inside of krh's brain now..
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[02:38:42]  <spstarr_> I didnt think there was a different way to use composite when you get down to the GLX layer
 [02:39:01]  <airlied> so it appears the "data" is pointing to random memory or someone has over-written it.
 [02:40:26]  <spstarr_> and data is a __GLXDRIdrawable structure
 [02:41:16]  <airlied> yup.. but it gets passwd to the 3D driver which passes it back later.
 [02:42:22]  <spstarr_> then the question is, is it getting corrupt in the 3D driver or outside?
 [02:42:36]  <airlied> or is it getting freed before the 3D driver passes it back
 [02:42:58]  <spstarr_> hence garbage
 [02:43:38]  <spstarr_> if its the latter case, tracing the code paths to data might not be too difficult?
 [02:44:17]  <airlied> well it might be worth seeing if you can break on driDestroyDrawable
 [02:44:36]  <airlied> or maybe DRIDestroyDrawable
 [02:44:45]  <spstarr_> in same thread I'm in now?
 [02:44:48]  <spstarr_> or restart
 [02:45:00]  <airlied> restart
 [02:45:02]  <spstarr_> restart
 [02:45:28]  <spstarr_> ok, i'll attach set breakpoint and wait
 [02:45:37]  <spstarr_> then it will tri[
 [02:45:38]  <spstarr_> p
 [02:46:23]  <airlied> hopefully it trips before the SEGV
 [02:48:33]  <spstarr_> setting bk DRIDestroyDrawable
 [02:49:19]  <airlied> sounds good
 [02:49:25]  <spstarr_> no
 [02:49:30]  <spstarr_>     data=0xa38d190) at glxdri.c:761
 [02:49:30]  <spstarr_> 761         pScreen = drawable->base.pDraw->pScreen;
 [02:49:32]  <spstarr_> we SEGV
 [02:49:43]  <airlied> damn..
 [02:49:57]  <airlied> wierdly in a slightly different place.. but same probme..
 [02:50:03]  <airlied> print drawable there
 [02:50:15]  <spstarr_> no context
 [02:50:37]  <airlied> so lets go bit by bit, *(__GLXDRIdrawable *)data
 [02:50:54]  <spstarr_> pastebin..
 [02:50:54]  <airlied> probqably the same type of garbage as before
 [02:51:02]  <spstarr_> looks different
 [02:51:34]  <spstarr_> http://fpaste.org/paste/2156
 [02:51:57]  <airlied> different garbage :)
 [02:52:04]  <spstarr_> in this case: I had composite already started and JUST changed the texture quality from excellent to fast
 [02:52:38]  <airlied> go back up do the __dri function
 [02:52:50]  <airlied> probably two levels.
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[02:53:01]  <spstarr_> up #1:
 [02:53:02]  <spstarr_> #1  0x0082ae0f in __driUtilUpdateDrawableInfo (pdp=0xa52d808)
 [02:53:02]  <spstarr_>     at ../common/dri_util.c:245
 [02:53:02]  <spstarr_> 245         if (! (*psp->getDrawableInfo->getDrawableInfo)(pdp,
 [02:53:08]  <spstarr_> #2  0x0082ff80 in radeonGetLock (rmesa=0xa0ab8c0, flags=0) at radeon_lock.c:115
 [02:53:08]  <spstarr_> 115             DRI_VALIDATE_DRAWABLE_INFO(sPriv, drawable);
 [02:53:36]  <airlied> print drawable there.
 [02:53:48]  <spstarr_> ($2 = (__DRIdrawablePrivate * const) 0xa52d808
 [02:54:05]  <airlied> print *drawable
 [02:54:21]  <spstarr_> THAT IS VALID data:
 [02:54:25]  <spstarr_> pastebin...
 [02:54:37]  <spstarr_> w = 1400, h = 1050..
 [02:54:42]  <spstarr_> which is resolution
 [02:54:50]  <airlied> yeah I'm just wondering about the private bits.
 [02:55:08]  <spstarr_> http://fpaste.org/paste/2157
 [02:56:03]  <spstarr_> last two lines got cut off
 [02:56:04]  <spstarr_> dri2 = {tail = 0, drawable_id = 0}}
 [02:57:10]  <airlied^ hmm I think we'll have to break in driCreateNewDrawable
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[02:57:27]  <spstarr_> restarting
 [02:57:28]  <airlied> print out data and see if the address is the same at the segv point
 [02:57:46]  <airlied> if it is then someone is being bad, and I suspect valgrind and a long wait might help )
 [02:57:56]  <spstarr_> heh
 [03:01:18]  <spstarr_> attaching bt driCreateNewDrawable
 [03:01:27]  <spstarr_> lets see....
 [03:01:55]  <spstarr_> it broke
 [03:02:11]  <spstarr_> we are in backtrace but no SEGV
[03:02:18]  <spstarr_> step?
 [03:02:24]  <airlied> nope.. just print private
 [03:02:29]  <airlied> oops data
 [03:02:36]  <spstarr_> $1 = (void *) 0x95e3a98
 [03:02:45]  <spstarr_> cast it to something?
 [03:02:49]  <airlied> now continue until the segv
 [03:02:55]  <airlied> and see if its the same pointer
 [03:03:08]  <spstarr_> its not
 [03:03:18]  <airlied> whats it now?
 [03:03:18]  <spstarr_> breakpoint is still set
 [03:03:20]  <spstarr_> $2 = (void *) 0x8c45df0
 [03:03:25]  <spstarr_> or remove breakpoint
 [03:03:27]  <airlied> keep printing it for every break..
 [03:03:32]  <airlied> until the SEGV
 [03:03:38]  <spstarr_> $3 = (void *) 0x8c48b10
 [03:03:44]  <spstarr_> $4 = (void *) 0x920db68
 [03:03:50]  <airlied> as I think you might get a new drawable every time you cycle the kwin
 [03:03:55]  <spstarr_> $5 = (void *) 0x8c42410
 [03:03:59]  <airlied> well when it segvs get me the last two
 [03:04:00]  <spstarr_> seems like it
 [03:04:03]  <spstarr_> ok
 [03:05:53]  <spstarr_> now it refuses to crash
[03:05:56]  <spstarr_> mmmm
 [03:06:29]  * airlied runs ;-)
 [03:07:03]  <spstarr_> love these kinds of bugs
 [03:07:10]  <spstarr_> CRASH
 [03:07:15]  <spstarr_> $34 = (void *) 0x960e480
 [03:07:18]  <spstarr_> $35 = (void *) 0x8c4cd60
 [03:07:21]  <spstarr_> ...SEGV
 [03:07:24]  <airlied> and now?
 [03:07:42]  <spstarr_> Data passed into getDrawableInfo is data=0x90cdcf0
 [03:07:57]  <airlied> uggh..
 [03:07:57]  <spstarr_> Line 761 glxdri.c 761         pScreen = drawable->base.pDraw->pScreen;
 [03:08:27]  <spstarr_> valgrind it is? :)
 [03:08:41]  <spstarr_> if so, explain how I run this beast in it, never used it w/ X
 [03:08:46]  <airlied> maybe.. that or get sources build somewhere, and lots of prints
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[03:09:13]  <airlied> valgrind X from ssh session, then export DISPLAY and run whatever runs a kde session
 [03:09:16]  <spstarr_> the latter option makes me feel pain
 [03:09:17]  <airlied> from another terminal
 [03:09:30]  <spstarr_> this box
 [03:09:32]  <spstarr_> sure :)
 [03:09:35]  <airlied^ I might try reproducing it at home later.. or maybe tomorrow..
 [03:09:42]  <airlied> its very bloody annoying
 [03:09:55]  <airlied> spstarr_: also I might gets this logfile and send it to krh ;-)
 [03:10:09]  <spstarr_> there's no way to force all composite operations to have one path to controlling things?
 [03:10:30]  <spstarr_> ie gnome desktop-effects and kwin's use of composite
 [03:10:56]  <spstarr_> sure, this log might help him
 [03:11:00]  <airlied^ there is only one path
 [03:11:07]  <airlied> just kde is causing something wierd to happen.
 [03:11:27]  <spstarr_> installing valgrind
[03:11:43]  <airlied> I gotta go home.. might bbl..
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[03:13:05]  <spstarr_> but if DISPLAY is set won't kwin know the remote display has no XCOMPOSITE (?) well, it will but i have no idea what will happen or what kwin will think
 [03:13:10]  <spstarr_> :)
 [03:15:54]  <MrCooper^ $DISPLAY is always set to something for an X client; the point is to set it to the display of the X server running in valgrind (probably :0) instead of what ssh may have set
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[03:28:06]  <spstarr_> ok
 [03:28:48]  <spstarr_> MrCooper: it wont let me  run setuid with valgrind, even if I do valgrind --trace-children=no /usr/bin/X -ac :0
 [03:29:05]  <spstarr_> keeps saying to turn it off
[03:29:20]  <spstarr_> (where trace-children is yes)
 [03:29:46]  <MrCooper> running valgrind as root?
 [03:29:52]  <spstarr_> yes
 [03:30:16]  <MrCooper> you may have to remove the suid bits from the executable(s) involved then
 [03:30:36]  <spstarr_> so be it
 [03:30:38]  <MrCooper> or just try Xorg directly
 [03:30:50]  <MrCooper> assuming /usr/bin/X is a wrapper
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[03:31:18]  <spstarr_> actially, i wont run it as root
 [03:31:23]  <spstarr_> just remove setuid for now
 [03:31:26]  <spstarr_> it runs
 [03:31:45]  <spstarr_> na
[03:31:50]  <spstarr_> i need root since log files etc
 [03:33:15]  <spstarr_> ok its chugging away
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[03:33:49]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:34:13]  <spstarr_> I suppose I should have captured this to a file...
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[03:36:34]  <spstarr_> ok it's where i want to begin debugging
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[03:49:04]  <spstarr_> wah
 [03:49:14]  <spstarr_> MrCooper: valgrind is able to compensate?
 [03:49:20]  <spstarr_> it wont crash now but valgrind is reporting errors
 [03:49:53]  <MrCooper> that's possible
 [03:50:36]  <spstarr_> http://fpaste.org/paste/2160
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[03:50:43]  <spstarr_> looks suspicious?
 [03:52:45]  <MrCooper> hard to say without radeon driver symbols, but probably it's just valgrind not knowing about some device mapping
 [03:52:51]  <spstarr_> or 2161
 [03:52:53]  <spstarr_> http://fpaste.org/paste/2161
 [03:53:01]  <spstarr_> which is where we were digging before
 [03:53:17]  <spstarr_> that is exactly the area
 [03:53:37]  <MrCooper> yeah, that looks more like it
 [03:55:15]  <spstarr_> do you need the conditional jump sections relating to the DRI?
 [03:57:27]  <spstarr_> wait a second... radeonGetLock()
 [03:57:31]  <spstarr_> where is the unlock?
 [03:58:07]  <spstarr_> is it the DRI that sets the lock and releases it?
 [03:58:22]  <spstarr_> DRI -> LOCK ---> DRM ---> DRI UNLOCK?
 [04:02:29]  <MrCooper> I'll leave this to airlied and/or krh, but I wouldn't worry about the locking until the use-after-free is fixed
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[04:12:01]  <spstarr_> :)
 [04:12:56]  <spstarr_> sleep
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[04:32:10]  <airlied> spstarr_: nice thats its alright.. which wwas what I expected..
 [04:32:13]  <airlied> dumb use after free.
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[08:59:22]  <auao> boys see my foto here --> http://rapidshare.com/files/113860291/sexy18.jpg.rar.html . if i like you come prive for cyber :D
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[09:04:23]  <geaaru> hi at all, i'm try to compile xorg-server from git repository on amd64 architecture but i have on error on compile vesa module for
[09:04:28]  <geaaru> kdriver
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[09:04:47]  <geaaru> problem is on assembler part of vm86old function
 [09:05:04]  <geaaru> {standard input}: Assembler messages: {standard input}:779: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `push' {standard input}:780: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov' {standard input}:783: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `pop'
 [09:06:12]  <geaaru> and still there is an error at row 213
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[09:06:44]  <geaaru> where is called ErrorF function with %d without insert params... in those case is needed only
 [09:07:13]  <geaaru> insert variable to print (num) but for assembler language i have some problems
 [09:07:30]  <geaaru> can be a problem with 64bit architecture and assembler language
 [09:07:34]  <geaaru> ?
 [09:07:55]  <geaaru> file is hw/kdrive/vesa/vm86.c
 [09:09:45]  <jcristau> you can't do vm86 on 64bit afaik
 [09:10:25]  <geaaru> ah ok, is a parameter of configure?
 [09:11:16]  <jcristau> no idea
 [09:11:47]  <geaaru> i think that problem is only on assembler syntax is convert assembler rows in c i resolve compile problem
 [09:12:09]  <geaaru> obviosly is less fast but is a workaround :)
 [09:16:15]  <whot> daniels: any guesses why Mod1 is permanently set on the keyboard?
 [09:16:45]  <whot> and even if I unset it with gdb, it keeps getting reset
 [09:17:22]  <geaaru> however, thanks for reply
 [09:20:08]  <jcristau^ vm86 on a non i386 kernel just won't work
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[09:23:19]  <geaaru> jcristau: thanks, then there is a way to avoid to compile vm86 module of kdriver because on configure i can only enable or disable kdrive compilation
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[09:49:25]  <whot> daniels: state->locked_mods is set. hmm.
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[09:51:42]  <Goran_> how do WMs implement things like ALT+mouse to move window?
 [09:51:56]  <Goran_> do they intercept all mouse and keyboard events?
 [09:52:36]  <mraudsepp> they do get to know about all of them, yes. They also implement global keyboard shortcut keys that way
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[09:57:27]  <geaaru> jcristau... at least on compilation i resolved, on 64bit i need use pushq, movq, popq instead pushl, movl, popl and use rbx and rax instead of ebx and eax
 [09:57:41]  <geaaru> i don't know if works but now compile ;)
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[10:25:08]  <daniels> whot: okay, so the modifier is locked
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[11:07:12]  <Goran_> but can WMs stop the apps from receiving mouse clicks?
 [11:07:38]  <Goran_> since on alt+mouse menus and buttons dont get clicked
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[14:27:15]  <papo> hi
 [14:28:50]  <papo> I'm encountering the problem described in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14867 which is a ticket with a strange state (RESOLVED but NEEDINFO??). I would like to report on this; should I open a new ticket or reopen #14647?
 [14:29:44]  <spstarr_work> airlied: ping
 [14:29:48]  <spstarr_work> <airlied> spstarr_: nice thats its alright.. which wwas what I expected..
 [14:29:48]  <spstarr_work> <airlied> dumb use after free.
 [14:30:06]  <spstarr_work> i have this logged if you need it (you might also :-)
 [14:30:31]  <ajax> daniels: so.  what the hell are we going to do about evdev?
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[15:08:39]  <ajax> i really don't like the XIKDS on the core keyboard.
 [15:08:43]  <ajax> that seems so wrong.
 [15:12:28]  <ajax> daniels: why can't i find xkb-atkins anywhere?
 [15:18:50]  <ajax> god xevie.
 [15:19:53]  <anholt> when you were talking about killing EVI, I thought you were talking about EVIE.
 [15:20:53]  <ajax> i think input wouldn't be so vile to deal with if we didn't have field names like keyButtonPointer
 [15:21:01]  <ajax> i mean
 [15:21:06]  <ajax> what the hell is that.
 [15:21:18]  <ajax> that's like a lemonheads album.  oh wait, that was car button cloth.
 [15:21:19]  <ajax> close!
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[16:03:16]  <ajax> this is fun.  you can pretty much read any given piece of globals.c and know you can delete it
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[16:10:21]  <daniels> ajax: evdev> what? x-a> been sidetracked by work and other things, but on it now; XIKDS on the core is fixed
 [16:11:27]  <ajax^ we were muttering about how to handle evdev keyboards sanely a while ago.  i'm looking at it again, but i forget what we decided.
 [16:11:37]  <ajax> good to hear about the XIKDS though
 [16:12:16]  <ajax> something squicked me about the idea of having one map for the vck and another for each of the real keyboards.
 [16:13:28]  <daniels^ you can't get rid of that completely, since you need to tell clients _something_, even with no keyboards attached.  that doesn't get to properly go away until x12, where it will be okay to have no keyboard at all.
 [16:13:51]  <daniels> the only sanity discussion i remember was having a separate ruleset for evdev, so you get rules evdev, model logitechbonghits, layout us.
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[16:36:38]  <vignatti> Does anyone seriously use hw/xfree86/doc/devel/Registry?
 [16:39:43]  <vignatti> if I delete a field of an structure am I affecting the ABI, right? What's the impact to do this in mpx branch?
 [16:44:40]  <vignatti> whot: ping
 [16:45:30]  <daniels^ yeah, you're affecting API and ABI by deleting fields, and yeah that's fine in the mpx branch, as 1.6 breaks all kinds of API and ABI.
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[16:47:39]  <vignatti> daniels: okay, tkx Daniel. I have 5 commits here for Peter which might "interest" you
 [16:47:55]  <vignatti> it concerns cursor rendering
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[16:49:43]  <ajax> vignatti: we really should use the registry more than we do.
 [16:54:02]  <daniels^ noting that any registry we do use has to be googleable.
 [16:55:48]  <vignatti> heh
 [16:56:50]  <vignatti> whot: http://people.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/tmp/hw-cursor-mpx/
 [16:57:12]  <vignatti> daniels: ^^^^^^^^^ it would be cool if you take a look also. Tkx
 [17:00:19]  <daniels^ tbh this is all code i've literally not looked at in four years, and never looked at in depth, so i'm afraid i'm not much help ...
 [17:04:00]  <vignatti^ np dude
 [17:04:21]  <vignatti> ajax: It would not be interesting to set --enable-builtin-fonts as default?
 [17:05:31]  <daniels> that'd be pretty sweet
 [17:05:45]  <daniels> weirdshit distros with customers who actually want core fonts can set --enable-loadable-fonts.
 [17:05:57]  <vignatti> yeah
 [17:06:28]  <vignatti> also, why {ioport, xorgconfig, cvt, gtf} is enabled by default in X compilation?
 [17:06:42]  <daniels> legacy ... they probably shouldn't be.
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[17:12:27]  <ajax> daniels: so here's the problem i'm seeing.
 [17:12:55]  <ajax> some evdev keyboards are going to come equipped with event codes above 255
 [17:13:13]  <ajax> i don't think i can represent that as a keycode in xkb at all
 [17:14:01]  <ajax> so i actually need to dynamically construct the map based on what kind of device i'm looking at, and translate that inside evdev(4) before even doing xf86PostKeyboardEvent
 [17:14:56]  <ajax> and then you just get the first 247 scancodes allocated based on what keyboard you plug in and then you're stuck until X12
 [17:17:03]  <idr> WOW.
 [17:17:19]  <idr> I AM SO GLAD I LET mattst88 TALK ME INTO INSTALLING GENTOO. :(
 [17:17:38]  <ajax> the only way i can map that to rules:evdev model:thinkpad layout:us is by not having any of the rules or model code in xkeyboard-config at all but doing it all internal to evdev(4)
 [17:17:47]  <ajax> idr: alphacore?
 [17:17:59]  <idr^ eh?
 [17:18:00]  <cjb> Gentoo sucks, it makes you write in all-uppercase.
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[17:18:46]  <ajax> idr: port of fedora to alpha.  actually looks fairly old and dusty at this point.  i thought we had someone working on reviving it though...
 [17:19:17]  <ajax> lame.  i see sparc and ia64 koji instances, but not alpha.
 [17:19:23]  <idr^ Oh.  That.
 [17:19:44]  <idr> I could never get AC2 to install on my Alpha, so I promptly forgot about its existence.
 [17:20:03]  <ajax> ac3 exists, it seems.
 [17:20:41]  <mattst88> idr, ehh?
 [17:21:26]  <idr^ I had no idea that it would talk, literally, all freakin' day to install on this box.
 [17:21:40]  <ajax> daniels: i dunno.  maybe i'm misunderstanding.
 [17:21:41]  <idr> mattst88: It has been going for 4.5 hours already.
 [17:21:49]  <mattst88> it's by definition, not a speedy installation
 [17:21:55]  <idr^ And now, pkgconfig won't install.
 [17:22:18]  <ajax> impressive.
 [17:22:21]  <mattst88> what error does it fail with?
 [17:22:52]  <ajax> i'd laugh if it really did end up being easier to set up a koji builder to febootstrap than to install gentoo.
 [17:23:31]  <dberkholz> idr: happy to help, if you're having issues
 [17:23:32]  <idr> mattst88: Hang on.  I have to wait for it to fail again.  The first time it failed was part of the install of syslog-ng.  I'm installing it by itself now.
 [17:23:46]  <dberkholz> or #gentoo-alpha would be helpful
 [17:23:57]  <dberkholz> more so than me or mattst88, guessing neither of us have ever used an alpha
 [17:24:23]  <idr^ The main issue so far it just time.
 [17:24:50]  <mattst88> I've got an alpha sitting beside me with gentoo on it now.
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[17:24:54]  <dberkholz> whoa. alpha doesn't do a binary package cd.
 [17:24:55]  <dberkholz> that's weird
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[17:31:59]  <ajax> daniels: also.  what was the list of kdrive drivers we wanted to preserve again?
 [17:32:38]  <ajax> i'm remembering ephyr, fake, fbdev, sdl, vesa.  i think that's it?
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[17:41:22]  <idr> mattst88: http://people.freedesktop.org/~idr/build.log
 [17:45:38]  * mattst88 powers up his alpha
 [17:49:14]  <mattst88> idr, what does 'grep model /proc/cpuinfo' give?
 [17:50:43]  <idr^ EV56
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[17:57:02]  <mattst88> idr, 'grep FEATURES /etc/make.conf'
 [17:57:33]  <idr^ FEATURES="ccache"
 [17:58:15]  <mattst88> if it's not already there, mkdir /etc/portage
 [17:58:45]  <mattst88> and do 'echo "=dev-util/pkgconfig-0.23">>/etc/portage/package.keywords'
 [17:58:55]  <mattst88> then try emerge pkgconfig
 [17:59:24]  <idr> pkgconfig-0.23?
 [17:59:53]  <mattst88> yes, let's try installing a newer version
 [18:00:09]  <idr> k
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[18:14:35]  <idr> mattst88: worked.  thanks.
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[18:18:11]  <mattst88> good :)
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[18:26:54]  <tango_> daniels, ping
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[18:45:15]  <idr> For cryin' out loud.
 [18:45:47]  <idr> mattst88: Same type of error with glib.  Is there way to disable "install_qa_check".
 [18:50:42]  <svu> daniels, ping (just in case)
 [18:53:42]  <mattst88> idr, sorry for slow response
 [18:54:07]  <mattst88> I found this bug (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=193669) that says you should emerge gcc
 [18:54:46]  <mattst88> some conflict between gcc in the stage tarball and portage or something
 [18:55:04]  <mattst88> what's 'gcc-config -l' show?
 [18:55:39]  <dberkholz> idr: FEATURES="-stricter" in make.conf
 [18:56:16]  <dberkholz> that's what "
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[18:56:25]  <mattst88> is stricter on by default?
 [18:56:26]  <dberkholz> that's what "hasq stricter ${FEATURES}" checks for
 [18:57:12]  <dberkholz> mattst88: it was for a while. presumably that time included the 2007 release that idr may not have run 'emerge sync' on
 [18:57:33]  <mattst88> makes sense
 [18:57:46]  <idr^ gcc-config -l shows "[1] alpha-unknown-linux-gnu-4.1.2"
 [18:58:12]  <idr> dberkholz: I'm using a 2008.0_beta2.
 [18:58:16]  <mattst88> latest stable gcc, so you're good in that category
 [18:58:36]  <dberkholz> that log you showed me strongly implicates the 'stricter' FEATURES setting
 [18:58:48]  <dberkholz> so you might want to try turning it off
 [18:59:10]  <dberkholz> it would also be on if you were using a developer profile
 [18:59:20]  <idr> Ah.
 [18:59:28]  <idr> dberkholz: I am using the developer profile.
 [19:00:11]  <dberkholz> problem with that profile is it assumes all developers want to fix all problems in all packages
 [19:00:11]  <idr^ The whole "profiles" thing wasn't that clear to me...so I guessed.
 [19:02:36]  <dberkholz^ it's kinda intended for gentoo developers more than generic developers. you might want to switch to the desktop one
 [19:03:07]  <idr^ Okay.
 [19:03:17]  <dberkholz> useful things in it for you are FEATURES="splitdebug" which provides debug stuff for everything you build in /usr/lib/debug/
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[19:46:08]  <whot> vignatti: one sec, I'll have a look
 [19:49:22]  <whot> looks good, I'll apply it to my box here, if it works consider it pushed soon
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[20:11:17]  <daniels> tango_: hi
 [20:11:18]  <daniels> svu: hi
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[20:11:32]  <daniels> ajax: do we want to preserve ati for history's sake?
 [20:12:00]  <airlied^ ati what?
 [20:12:01]  <daniels> ajax: also, remove all OS backends that aren't linux.  (i think that's just vxworks, tho.)
 [20:12:06]  <daniels> airlied: hw/kdrive/ati
 [20:12:09]  <airlied> ah ..
 [20:12:21]  <airlied> we've taken nearly all its good bits :)
 [20:13:37]  <spstarr> airlied :-)
 [20:13:57]  <spstarr> valgrind ran, see log
 [20:14:24]  <airlied^ yeah good job, now I just have to figure wtf is happening.
 [20:14:33]  <spstarr> :)
 [20:14:39]  <airlied^ I guessed it was something like that, but quite why it happens I'm not sure.
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[20:14:59]  <spstarr> don't you love these edge case bugs ;)
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[21:11:55]  <whot> vignatti: patches work fine. applied.
 [21:12:00]  <whot> thanks a bunch
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[22:25:28]  <vignatti> whot: sweet
 [22:26:54]  <whot> except that I cant push ATM :)
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[23:27:00]  <spstarr> sup raster
[23:27:14]  <raster^ burrp
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----- [2008-05-15] -----
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[00:00:23]  <whot> vignatti: the "restructure and reorganize.." patch breaks xtest
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[00:01:04]  <whot> vignatti: if I XTestFakeMotionEvent, the sprite doesn't move.
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[00:12:53]  <whot> airlied: if I need a machine with 4+ heads, which graphics card do I use?
 [00:17:04]  <airlied^ Windows :)
 [00:17:07]  <airlied> jokes..
 [00:17:33]  <airlied> in theory only nvidia will work properly and you need two of them..
 [00:17:40]  <airlied> I think you can but ati cards with 4 heads
 [00:17:43]  <airlied> buy even.
 [00:18:02]  <whot> but nvidia requires binary drivers that are not ABI-compatible?
 [00:18:12]  <airlied^ exactly so screwed there ;)
 [00:18:28]  <airlied> so you're best hope is to use two ATI cards and then get me to fix shit so they both work.
 [00:18:33]  <whot> well, I can buy a board that allows me to put 4 cards in though?
 [00:18:37]  <airlied> pciaccess kinda doesn't post the second card.
 [00:18:41]  <whot> oh
 [00:18:55]  <airlied^ you can get motherboards that take 2xPCIE16 cards
 [00:19:04]  <airlied> then use two dual-head cards
 [00:19:20]  <whot> yeah, that'd be good enough I guess. question is just which cards.
 [00:19:23]  <airlied> or you can buy PCI cards or PCIE1x cards..
 [00:19:37]  <whot> considering the last time I paid attention to graphics cards was when the Voodoo2 came out
 [00:19:46]  <airlied> well in theory I can make 2 ATIs work.
 [00:19:54]  <airlied> it just invovles us fixing shit.
 [00:20:26]  <whot> what's the likelyhood of that happening? how busy are you in the next months?
 [00:20:47]  <airlied^ well I'd like to fix it in F9 at least get a decent workaround in aplce
 [00:21:01]  <airlied> I just need to find some of that motivation stuff ;-)
 [00:21:24]  <whot> ah. that stuff. hard to find these days
 [00:22:39]  <airlied> well I need to set up my 4 monitors on my desk also ;-)
 [00:22:44]  <whot> hehe
 [00:22:56]  <airlied> and I already have a motherboard with 2XPCIE16 sltos.
 [00:23:05]  <airlied> so its not a lack of hardware :?)
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[00:23:59]  <whot> well. I'll forward that to my mighty boss and see whether he despairs over it
 [00:24:23]  <airlied> two ATI R500 cards would be easiest I suspect..
 [00:24:33]  <airlied> or even two X1050s (cheapest)
 [00:25:03]  <whot> i think this time I don't even have to go for the cheapest solution. yay.
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[02:00:03]  <vignatti> whot: damn. Do you have some easy xtest sample to stress it there?
 [02:04:26]  <whot> while (1) { XNextEvent(dpy, &ev); XTestFakeMotionEvent(...) }
 [02:04:30]  <whot> that's all you need
 [02:05:08]  <vignatti^ humm, okay. Give me one or two days to try this again
 [02:05:19]  <whot> there are two problems to it: one is that the cursor is NULL
 [02:05:39]  <whot> the other one is that this NULL cursor is updated in the miSprite* code, not in th xf86 cursor code
 [02:05:59]  <whot> the sprite stays HW rendered at the original position
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[02:08:00]  <vignatti> whot: okay. I forgot to stress the XTest suite :(
 [02:08:24]  <whot^ i only noticed because I tried to demo a program that uses it :)
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[02:09:28]  <vignatti> whot: I hope you tried to demo to yourself :)
 [02:09:55]  <whot^ it was a "hey, look at this cool thing" demo. nothing serious
 [02:11:33]  <vignatti^ you said that only the restructure and reorganize.." patch breaks xtest? Do you applied the subsequents?
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[02:12:11]  <whot> vignatti: yes, git-bisect told me that patch was the problem
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[02:37:01]  <tango_> daniels, re-ping 8-)
 [02:37:12]  <tango_> (let's see if we can do it while we're all awake)
 [02:37:19]  <tango_> or maybe I'll just send you a priv
 [02:37:29]  <airlied^ he was still awake at 4am..
 [02:37:37]  <airlied> so he might not be around for a while ;-)
 [02:37:45]  <tango_> ok, I'l privmsg him
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[02:39:14]  <tango_> airlied, but maybe you can help me too. assuming I wanted to use a different public key to access fd.o, what should I do? just log in to some specific machine and change it or send the new one to someone and have someone else change it?
 [02:39:36]  <airlied^ well openssh is down, but I think there is a mail interface that should work.
 [02:39:47]  <airlied> but that may also be failing.
 [02:40:56]  <ds+ http://freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountMaintenance
 [02:42:46]  <tango_> ah good thanks
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[02:46:48]  <ds> I'm wondering if the ssh package got replaced with one that doesn
 [02:47:01]  <ds> 't support authorized_keys in ldap
 [02:47:24]  <airlied^ its turned off
 [02:47:28]  <ds> since I can log in on a key that is in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys, but not one in LDAP
 [02:47:50]  <airlied> daniels has to forward port a patch to support ldap
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[03:03:03]  <dberkholz> idr: i got a note added to the handbook about the developer profile, so nobody else hits that. thanks for mentioning it
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[03:48:10]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:56:06]  <idr> mattst88: I think you're on your own for bug #15169.  I've spent, literally, an entire day trying to get gentoo installed on the Alpha so that I could reproduce it.
 [03:56:14]  <idr> I don't have any more time to waste on it.
 [03:58:53]  <stillunknown^ Trying as in waiting for it to install?
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[04:06:13]  <idr> stillunknown: Trying as in encountering problems getting the *#(*!@ to boot after installing.
 [04:06:33]  <idr> Though it did take over 4.5 hours just to do the install.
 [04:06:50]  <idr> 500MHz CPU for the win. :(
 [04:07:04]  <MrCooper^ tried Debian?
 [04:07:39]  <idr^ Does it work on Alpha?
 [04:07:39]  <stillunknown^ What installation method did you use?
 [04:07:56]  <MrCooper+ sure, or I wouldn't have asked
 [04:08:01]  <dberkholz> the bug was reported by a debian developer, so i presume so
 [04:08:15]  <idr> MrCooper: Fair enough. :)
 [04:08:48]  <mraudsepp> and what's the error..?
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[04:09:20]  <idr> mraudsepp: The error /now/ is that genkernel didn't bother to build a driver for my SCSI controller.
 [04:09:36]  <idr> It's not a module in the initrd and it doesn't seem to be built-in either.
 [04:09:41]  <mraudsepp> oh my, genkernel >o
 [04:10:05]  <idr^ I tried building a kernel by hand, but I encountered problems there as well.
 [04:10:14]  <dberkholz> you can pass genkernel the --menuconfig option to get around that, if you so choose
 [04:10:28]  <dberkholz> or you could just try debian and hope it works more easily
 [04:11:04]  <dberkholz> on a box that slow, i'd be prone to try distros that don't involve lots of cpu time
 [04:11:09]  <idr^ I discovered --menuconfig a bit a go, and I'm giving it a try.
 [04:11:13]  <idr> Yeah. :(
 [04:11:20]  <mraudsepp> and maybe the guys at #gentoo-alpha have some ready configurations or something. Or debian. Just need alpha to work for xorg-server anywhere
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[04:11:34]  <dberkholz> since you probably don't have any other gentoo installs around to provide a cross-toolchain for distcc
 [04:11:43]  <idr> mraudsepp: I've been on #gentoo-alpha all day.  I think they're getting tired of my complaining. :)
 [04:12:00]  <dberkholz> your kind of complaining is exactly what we need, i think
 [04:12:05]  <dberkholz> experienced linux users new to gentoo
 [04:12:17]  <idr^ Though, in the long-run having everything built specifically for EV56 is a win.
 [04:12:30]  <dberkholz> yeah, that's the quandary.
 [04:13:15]  <dberkholz> compiling is a loss, running the compiled stuff is a win. solution is to find binaries someone else already built
 [04:13:57]  <dberkholz> but do you really care about even a 10% difference on a box that you don't use regularly?
 [04:14:10]  <idr^ There is that.
 [04:14:54]  <idr> Though, being able to distcc would help.  Since the Alpha is so different, it is a good test-bed for some things.
 [04:14:58]  <mraudsepp> damn, seems http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/default-linux/hppa/ has been neglected
 [04:15:22]  <dberkholz> and alpha doesn't even exist..
 [04:15:28]  <mraudsepp> oh, damn
 [04:15:33]  <mraudsepp> why was I searching for hppa instead of alpha, eh
 [04:16:00]  <dberkholz> i could probably build a cross-toolchain on here and build any binaries you need that actually build by cross.
 [04:16:57]  <idr^ I was thinking of setting up http://www.kegel.com/crosstool/ tomorrow for that purpose.
 [04:17:34]  <idr> It used to work pretty well when the only PowerPC system I had as a 450MHz G4.
 [04:17:38]  <mraudsepp> a gentoo chroot on a bigger horsepower machine and crossdev sounds saner
 [04:17:42]  <idr> dberkholz: Man...that think was a skunk!
 [04:18:29]  <dberkholz^ if you've got a gentoo chroot around (just unpack a stage3), crossdev is insanely easy to use.
 [04:18:42]  <dberkholz> 'crossdev -t alpha' is what i just started
 [04:19:53]  <dberkholz> i actually had about 20 cross-compilers installed on my old dev box
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[04:24:13]  <dberkholz> on the other hand, if you've been scarred for life by the events of the past 24 hours, perhaps you want to use crosstool instead =)
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[04:27:34]  <idr> dberkholz: I'll have to get back to you on that one. ;)
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[04:29:02]  <dberkholz> wow, where did tonight go. it got late fast.
 [04:29:37]  <dberkholz> oh that's right, i spent 2 hours figuring out that --disable-debug broke libvirt in an obscure fashion.
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[10:21:17]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: are you doing anything about the ssh problems?
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[10:24:17]  <alanc> Dr_Jakob: see topic of #freedesktop
 [10:24:50]  <Dr_Jakob^ it says the same here
 [10:25:23]  <alanc> oh, missed that - topic here is so long it had scrolled past
 [10:27:33]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: my plan is to leave it for roughly a fortnight or so; might go on holiday, or just sit around watching lots of family guy.
 [10:27:50]  <Dr_Jakob^ excelent!
 [10:28:03]  <jcristau> w00t. holiday.
 [10:28:38]  <daniels> but seriously though, i have to hack openssh before any of you can log in again.  working on that, though obviously i'm being hella paranoid and quadruple-checking everything, and i'm slammed at work, so it's taking a little while.  hoping to have it back up tonight tho.
 [10:30:21]  <Dr_Jakob^ ok good work
 [10:30:25]  <alanc> darn, I was hoping for two more weeks slip in 7.4 - though we'll probably get that even if ssh is working
 [10:31:27]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: somebody should send a mail to the lists for the irc-challanged people.
 [10:34:33]  <daniels^ i tried to blog, but the blog was broken.
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[10:45:18]  <jcristau> alanc: did you get the syslog patch for xdm i sent you a while ago?
 [10:46:11]  <alanc^ I think it's in my e-mail backlog - still recovering from getting the OpenSolaris 2008.05 release out
 [10:46:40]  <jcristau^ ok, thanks
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[10:59:22]  <parabelboi> hi, i have a problem to get xorg recognizing my radeon card on ppc64 (32bit userland)
 [10:59:39]  <parabelboi> lspci looks like this: http://rafb.net/p/j3gt2069.html
 [11:01:05]  <parabelboi> it looks like a bug when storing addresses to unsigned long pointers instead of unsigned long long
 [11:01:14]  <parabelboi> sounds familar ?
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[11:02:23]  <MrCooper> parabelboi: storing pointers in unsigned long should be fine
 [11:02:55]  <MrCooper> oh, nm, 32 on 64
 [11:03:04]  <parabelboi> 64 bit hardware addresses i mean
 [11:03:42]  <parabelboi> tried this little patch, bit it did not help: http://rafb.net/p/FO5PUB81.html
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[11:04:52]  <MrCooper> 64 bit addresses with 32 bit code is probably indeed not handled correctly yet in lots of places
 [11:05:55]  <parabelboi> hm, I could try a 64bit install, but that would not fix the problem ;-)
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[11:08:09]  <MrCooper> parabelboi: I don't suppose there's a way to keep PCI resources within 32 bits as a workaround?
 [11:08:55]  <MrCooper> it's also possible that newer versions of xserver using libpciaccess would work better
 [11:09:55]  <parabelboi> I'm already using git sources of both
 [11:10:38]  <ajax> sigh.  that's the _one_ bug pciaccess was most expected to fix.
 [11:10:39]  <parabelboi> guess it's easier to make a 64bit install
 [11:11:53]  <parabelboi> well, if there is a chance to fix the rest of it within the next week, I'll compile and debug everything as needed
 [11:12:09]  <parabelboi> otherwise I reinstall a 64bit install
 [11:12:30]  <parabelboi> would like to have something running for LinuxTag by end of may
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[11:40:05]  <daniels> isn't unsigned long long a gccism?
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[11:44:59]  <alanc> C99 added long long as a base type
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[11:58:46]  <Charbucks> hi, I'm looking for help on a weird intel/xrandr related issue
 [11:59:14]  <Ori_B> hi there.
 [11:59:21]  <Ori_B> don't ask to ask.
 [11:59:23]  <Charbucks> fancy meeting you here
 [11:59:35]  <Ori_B> yeah. I lurk.
 [12:01:22]  <Charbucks> ok, in that case, I've got an issue on a tablet pc (Sharp TN10W with intel i810 graphics) where any lines drawn with the wacom stylus in portrait orientation have little bits missing until the screen is redrawn
 [12:01:47]  <Charbucks> this only appeared with xorg 7.3
 [12:02:14]  <Charbucks> and the problem doesn't appear on my desktop with an nvidia card
 [12:03:13]  <Charbucks> (Ori_B tells me to poke jbarnes or keithp or anholt)
 [12:05:52]  <keithp^ you can try disabling frame buffer compression
 [12:06:05]  <keithp> of course, testing the latest driver would also help
 [12:06:24]  <Charbucks> ok, thanks
 [12:06:37]  <Charbucks> keithp: am I the only one that's had a problem like this?
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[12:12:31]  <keithp> Charbucks: I haven't heard anyone else complaining
 [12:12:46]  <keithp> have you tried the latest release of the intel driver?
 [12:13:49]  <Charbucks^ I haven't, no... I just tried without the intel driver, and it works, so that does seem to be where the problem lies
 [12:14:06]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: btw, one of our customers praised your new libDDC enabled driver, today.
 [12:14:07]  <Charbucks> keithp: I will give the new driver a shot though, thank you
 [12:14:18]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: so thats 1 praise, and 80 flames
 [12:14:31]  <CosmicPenguin> At least I'm batting better then .000!
 [12:14:40]  <Q-FUNK^ 80 flames for that change alone?
 [12:15:13]  <Q-FUNK> or was that a figure of speech?
 [12:15:21]  <CosmicPenguin> and a .012 batting average puts me on part with most of the Yankee's roster
 [12:15:25]  <CosmicPenguin> s/part/par/
 [12:15:26]  <CosmicPenguin> so socre
 [12:15:30]  <CosmicPenguin> score even
 [12:15:36]  <Q-FUNK> typos are us
 [12:16:30]  <Q-FUNK> the guys on the team also love how the driver reports what GPIO settings it found.  pretty ysmart way to notice if they are configured for serial console.
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[12:19:16]  <idr> parabelboi: There are three possible solutions: use 64-bit user-mode, use 32-bit kernel, or use recent xserver bits with libpciaccess.
 [12:19:40]  <idr> Fixing this particular problem on ppc64 is the *whole reason* I embarked on libpciaccess.
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[12:21:24]  <Charbucks> keithp: okay, I feel silly now... all this time I've been using the i810 driver, not the intel one
 [12:21:51]  <Ori_B^ IIRC, i810 is just an alias.
 [12:21:59]  <Ori_B> at least on most distros
 [12:22:25]  <idr> parabelboi: Actually, if this system is a PowerMac, you should put the video card in slot 0 (the topmost slot).  The firmware automagically puts that slot below 4GB.
 [12:22:34]  <Charbucks> Ori_B: this is Ubuntu 8.04, and if I change the line in xorg.conf to say "Driver" "intel" from "Driver" "i810", then all my problems are solved
 [12:22:38]  <parabelboi> idr: I'm already using libpciaccess, started a 64bit install now
 [12:22:46]  <Ori_B> Charbucks: oh. odd.
 [12:22:54]  <idr> parabelboi: Good man. :)
 [12:23:04]  <parabelboi^ this is not a mac ;-)
 [12:23:06]  <Charbucks> Ori_B: tis.  Especially since i810 worked just fine in 7.10
 [12:23:29]  <idr> parabelboi: Ah...must be some sort of POWER6 awesomeness, then?
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[12:24:17]  <parabelboi> idr: it's a cell blade with some pci express adapter blade on top
 [12:24:51]  <parabelboi> i kept the 32bit install for later debug sessions
 [12:25:18]  * idr drools...
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[13:24:43]  <jasonlife> I heard there is a plan to implement zaphod (zxahod) on top of XRANDR. Is it true? anyone working on it on any branch?
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[14:18:36]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to logins currently disabled on all fd.o machines, good progress -- do _not_ ask daniels about the broken wiki | End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[14:28:25]  <wereHamster> does a crtc have to be completely inside the screen size? Or only the x,y coordinates of the (top left?) corner?
 [14:30:31]  <Mercury^ What is the crtc going to display if it's pointing to outside the framebuffer?
 [14:31:36]  <wereHamster> black/nothing
 [14:38:17]  <Mercury^ Right, er, the answer is more likely to be 'whatever is in memory past the framebuffer'.
 [14:38:19]  <agd5f+ you can point ti anywhere within the gpu's FB address space generally, and it will scan out whatever is there
 [14:39:51]  <agd5f> it'll look like garbage unless you setup the content correctly
 [14:42:56]  <wereHamster> I don't know how, but while I played with the xrandr cmdline tool, I ended up in a situation where my external screen showed the root window in the top part, and the bottom ~200 pixels were black
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[14:45:19]  <wereHamster> Now I have it again..
 [14:46:18]  <wereHamster> http://pastey.net/87876
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[15:07:41]  <jg> ajax: could you fix my planet.freedesktop.org link to gettys.wordpress.com?
 [15:07:59]  <jg> afternoon keithp
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[15:34:06]  <wereHamster> how can I, if I have RRInfo (which is an XID) retrieve the corresponding XRRModeInfo ?
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[16:11:46]  <anholt> ajax: I think this is you.  http://tinderbox.freedesktop.org/builds/2008-05-14-0030/logs/xserver/#build
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[16:12:51]  <cjb> xdmcp.c:71: error: 'COMPILEDDISPLAYCLASS' undeclared here (not in a function)
 [16:14:53]  <anholt> and brianp broke the mesa build.
 [16:16:38]  * cjb will send out mails.
 [16:23:49]  <anholt> easy fix, I'll push
 [16:31:50]  <cjb> ok.  this is the mesa one?
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[16:59:01]  <svu> daniels, ping?
 [17:03:16]  <ssp> wereHamster: If you mean that you have an RRMode, then GetScreenResources, and find the mode info in resources->modes
 [17:05:00]  <anholt> cjb: no, I pinged brianp about mesa
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[17:08:58]  <cjb> ah, ok.
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[17:50:25]  ***  anholt has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to weak ssh keys have been disabled on fd.o machines, good progress -- do _not_ ask daniels about the broken wiki | End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[18:06:41]  ***  anholt has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to ssh has been reenabled. do _not_ ask daniels about the broken wiki | End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[18:06:43]  <anholt> ok, so I lied.
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[18:08:18]  <daniels> svu: hi
 [18:08:56]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to ssh will be up in a bit (if it's up, it's up; if it's not, it's not).  do _not_ ask daniels about the broken wiki. | End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[18:09:33]  <idr> dberkholz: How do I tell emerge to put python 2.5.x on my system?  xcbproto "needs" it.
 [18:09:45]  <benjsc> daniels: looks like your having fun :)
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[18:11:39]  <dberkholz> idr: mkdir /etc/portage; echo '=dev-lang/python-2.5*' > /etc/portage/package.keywords
 [18:11:42]  <anholt> keithp: so, your kludge-around in libpciaccess is what's breaking my system.
 [18:12:02]  <anholt> the mprotect back to r/w fails
 [18:12:07]  <anholt> (-EPERM)
 [18:12:22]  <daniels> benjsc: barrel of laughs, yeah
 [18:12:31]  <daniels> don't suppose you're bored enough to badger moin back into shape? :)
 [18:12:39]  <keithp> anholt: yay!
 [18:12:46]  <benjsc> daniels: happy to look, what changed?
 [18:12:52]  <keithp> anholt: are you running something newer than .25?
 [18:12:54]  <daniels> benjsc: 1.5 -> 1.6 :\
 [18:13:01]  <benjsc> ouch - site wide?
 [18:13:10]  <daniels> yeah, and it's even worse than the transition to 1.5 ...
 [18:13:11]  <daniels> http://moinmo.in/ThomasWaldmann/AnotherWayToMigrateFrom1.5To1.6
 [18:13:13]  <anholt> keithp: it was .25rc3 before, now .25
 [18:13:18]  <keithp> hmm
 [18:13:20]  <daniels> seriously, this is an excuse to move off moin.
 [18:13:32]  <keithp^ to what?
 [18:13:33]  <svu> daniels, hi hi
 [18:13:41]  <benjsc> daniels: yeah, they changed major things dri.fd.o is running 1.6 - I'll see what I can do
 [18:14:05]  <svu> daniels, a question. is there any change in relation between xkb and compose in your coming changes?
 [18:14:11]  <daniels> keithp: vi.  mediawiki.  anything.  i don't care.
 [18:14:15]  <daniels> svu: nothing planned, no.  why?
 [18:14:49]  <svu^ it is actually a question from simos (my student) . he was wondering if he would be safe using existing Compose model
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[18:16:12]  <daniels> svu: i'm not planning to break protocol yet
 [18:16:29]  <daniels> even when i do, i have nothing in mind for compose, but please let me know if you have suggestions. :)
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[18:16:46]  <benjsc> daniels: we need a page up with the new host keys listed
[18:16:46]  <svu> daniels, good. that's what I expected
 [18:17:12]  <daniels> benjsc: yeah, will send out a mail when access is re-enabled
 [18:17:18]  <daniels> itmt, will mail you, gpg-signed
 [18:17:22]  <svu^ another little question - would you be able to add simos's blog to p.g.o?
 [18:18:18]  <daniels> benjsc: sent
 [18:18:22]  <daniels> svu: yeah, got the mail today, will send it
 [18:18:28]  <daniels> s/send/add/
 [18:18:32]  <svu> great
 [18:18:35]  <svu> thanks a bunch!
 [18:18:55]  * svu wishes maintainers of planet.gnome.org would be that responsive
 [18:19:26]  <daniels> heh, i'm so not getting into that
 [18:19:37]  <svu> :)
 [18:21:27]  <daniels^ added
 [18:22:09]  <daniels> benjsc: (fwiw, the current status is that i've updated openssh on all the machines and forward-ported all our mad hax, but i need to update userdir-ldap to reject vulnerable keys before i re-enable that.)
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[18:28:52]  <benjsc> daniels: k, looks like gabe doesn't know about annarchy anymore either.. could be vanishing side effect as you were changing keys though
 [18:29:39]  <daniels^ yeah, i only realised when i checked my mail. :) it's fixed now tho, every host knows about the other.
 [18:30:11]  <benjsc> k, I'm tied up for about 40mins then I'll see what I can fix
 [18:31:23]  <daniels> yeah, np -- ta
 [18:31:35]  <daniels> i'll take care of the ud-l stuff if you're desperate enough to man moin :)
 [18:31:50]  <benjsc> benjsc: will do
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[23:30:46]  <bryce> http://www.x.org/wiki/ is displaying moinmoin error messages btw
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[23:57:05]  <benjsc> bryce: should at least not be displaying errors any more
 ----- [2008-05-16] -----
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[03:18:15]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:23:07]  <Dodji> when compiling mesa, I got this error:
 [04:23:09]  <Dodji> brw_wm_fp.c: In function ?emit_fb_write?:
 [04:23:09]  <Dodji> brw_wm_fp.c:885: error: ?struct prog_instruction? has no member named ?Sampler?
 [04:23:09]  <Dodji> brw_wm_fp.c:890: error: ?struct prog_instruction? has no member named ?Sampler?
 [04:23:09]  <Dodji> brw_wm_fp.c:893: error: ?struct prog_instruction? has no member named ?Sampler?
 [04:23:10]  <Dodji> brw_wm_fp.c:897: error: ?struct prog_instruction? has no member named ?Sampler?
 [04:23:12]  <Dodji> make[5]: *** [brw_wm_fp.o] Erreur 1
 [04:23:14]  <Dodji> *** Attente des t?ches non termin?es....
 [04:23:16]  <Dodji> quittant le are?pertoire ? /home/dodji/devel/git/xorg-jhbuild/mesa/src/mesa/drivers/dri/i965 ?
 [04:23:19]  <Dodji> any idea anyone ?
 [04:35:02]  <glisse^ sounds like Brian change on gsl in master might have broken this driver
 [04:35:07]  <glisse> glsl
 [04:35:25]  <Dodji^ okay, that would make sense
 [04:36:37]  * Dodji uses make -i in jhbuild to just keep going
 [04:37:01]  * Dodji hugs jhbuild
 [04:37:54]  <daniels> glisse: probably worth filing a bug, as most of the TG guys don't believe in IRC
 [04:37:59]  <daniels> s/glisse/Dodji/
 [04:38:15]  <Dodji^ hey. right, will do.
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[04:39:11]  * Dodji is a great irc believer. yay faith
 [04:39:54]  <Dr_Jakob^ there is one allready
 [04:40:10]  <Dr_Jakob> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15955
 [04:40:13]  <Dodji^ oh cool
 [04:40:21]  <Dodji> irc is even better than what I thought
 [04:40:24]  <Dodji> \o/
 [04:40:27]  <Dr_Jakob> not my doing
 [04:51:14]  <daniels> Dodji: yo yo yo
 [04:51:42]  <mraudsepp+ that bug doesn't have any useful error message copy pasted, could add that I suppose to make the problem even more obvious
 [04:53:32]  <Dodji> daniels, what's up
 [04:53:52]  <Dodji> mraudsepp, okay. I will wait for my jhbuild to finish building and I will reproduce and comment on the bug
 [04:56:33]  <daniels^ still openssl :\
 [04:56:41]  <Dodji^ argh :-(
 [04:58:12]  <Q-FUNK> I'm wondering how much of OpenSSL is missing in GNU TLS
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[05:22:38]  <Dodji> mraudsepp, okay comment added
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[07:33:21]  <whot> vignatti: FYI, HW rendering works now
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[07:36:39]  <whot> vignatti: or to be more precise it looks like it does.
 [07:41:31]  <benjsc^ greetz, helped Alex get MPX working on a new box
 [07:42:45]  <whot^ thanks a lot. does it work?
 [07:43:21]  <benjsc^ yeah, he was expecting multicursor out the box, didn't realise xinput was needed
 [07:43:30]  <benjsc> seems happy
 [07:44:36]  <whot^ whew. it was getting a bit worrying when after I compiled everything up he suddenly wants glx...
 [07:45:18]  <benjsc^ hmm, not sure if he got gl running :)
 [07:45:46]  <whot^ as long as he has something it doesn't matter.
 [07:46:11]  <whot> I'm just wondering how long it'll take him to realise that he kinda needs MPWM to demo it
 [07:47:00]  <benjsc^ yeah, he was surprized when gnome didn't work out the box
 [07:49:05]  <whot^ 2 years and they still don't get it... depressing
 [07:49:31]  <whot> come to think of it, I don't think he's ever seen a working demo
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[08:57:59]  <jcristau> is bugzilla known broken atm?
 [08:58:46]  <benjsc^ just slow..
 [08:59:18]  <benjsc> anarchy is doing some work which is causing a few web issues
 [08:59:36]  <jcristau> ok
 [08:59:47]  <jcristau> thanks benjsc
[09:00:19]  <jcristau> i get error 500 though, but will retry later
 [09:01:45]  <benjsc^ load average: 96.57, 83.25, 67.82
 [09:01:53]  <benjsc> it's just a little stressed
 [09:01:57]  <jcristau> heh. i see :)
 [09:02:10]  <jcristau> poor little annarchy
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[10:17:05]  <daniels> jcristau: do you have any patches for 1.4.1?
 [10:17:07]  <daniels> dberkholz: ^^
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[10:24:11]  <jcristau> daniels: maybe 536f2ff5, db9ae863
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[10:28:08]  <daniels> jcristau: c-p'ed and pushed
 [10:28:10]  <daniels> thanks
 [10:28:15]  <jcristau> thank you
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[10:42:02]  <daniels> whot: by the way, in case you hadn't noticed, this openssl thing has really knocked my merge plans sideways. :\ assuming i sort out ud-l tonight, i guess that leaves the weekend to do it.
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[10:46:58]  <jcristau> daniels: i've also cherry-picked 0b0a0979
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[11:04:41]  <daniels> jcristau: solid plan, thanks
 [11:04:57]  <ajax> nughg
 [11:05:10]  <ajax> integrating rhel5 patches is always such fun
 [11:05:49]  <daniels^ i'm currently rebasing the maemo xserver tree, which had the hal development done there first and hargharhagharhg
 [11:06:48]  <ajax> you saw the config/hal.c patch i just pushed, right?
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[11:08:55]  <ajax> f52f6c5c7efc281f9ac204fbaa4f71383df7463d if not
 [11:14:47]  <ajax> jesus, annarchy is hurting.
 [11:15:08]  <benjsc^ moin wiki conversion in progress
 [11:15:33]  <ajax> ah.  to newer moin, or to something else?
 [11:16:04]  <benjsc^ yeah, 1.5->1.6  data needs conversion
 [11:16:32]  <benjsc> it'll be a brave soul to shift to another wiki :)
 [11:17:27]  <ajax> migrating from twiki was bad enough
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[11:18:53]  <ajax> 08:18:29 up 95 days, 13:29,  5 users,  load average: 111.21, 100.08, 76.38
 [11:18:56]  <ajax> now that's a load average
 [11:19:05]  <ajax> (that's a house.  that's a fish.  that's a bee!)
 [11:20:08]  <benjsc> seems to be io bound and nothing I do seems to make much difference. If I drop apache instances nothing works web wise.. the box needs more physical ram
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[12:05:42]  <vignatti> whot: cool dude. Is it just a simple modifications against my patches?
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[12:07:30]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, i pushed that patch to 1.4.1, thanks.
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[12:29:45]  <daniels> benjsc-away: yeah, the foundation in-principle approved the purchase of the ram, so we just need someone stateside (probably keithp) to cost and obtain the ram and disk.
 [12:32:10]  <daniels> ajax: btw, i'm not going to cherry your randr commits: much though they seem like a vast improvement in correctness, i'd rather not change behaviours in a point release.
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[12:38:11]  <dberkholz> daniels: just the same stuff that's been in my branch. didn't apply clean to head anymore since you added some stuff
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[12:44:57]  <daniels> dberkholz: yeah, sorry, i think the rebase ruined my day.
 [12:45:04]  <daniels> anything interesting?
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[12:45:54]  <dberkholz> daniels: fixes for building of xprint, dmx, and xephyr, and a few cherrypicks -- lemme check what they were
 [12:46:53]  <dberkholz> ah, the cherrypicks are da973e962d09854b571320dee7dd9569060bc39e and bc2d516f16d94c805b4dfa8e5b9eef40ff0cbe98
 [12:47:24]  <daniels> ajax: considered 04211c3532ca078420e3745a5eac3d9de120bc32 for 1.5?
 [12:47:43]  <dberkholz> i was gonna point you at gitweb, but it's down..
 [12:47:59]  <dberkholz> aha, cgit is there
 [12:48:14]  <daniels^ okay, those two c-ps are already there
 [12:48:41]  <dberkholz^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~dberkholz/xserver/log/?h=server-1.4-branch-gentoo shows the other 5 commits, all from 8 days ago
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[12:53:03]  <dberkholz> i think there's a little conflict in how pixman's specified in configure.ac for xephyr commit
 [12:53:07]  <dberkholz> the others might just apply
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[12:55:15]  <mraudsepp> daniels: also how about http://rafb.net/p/FYnHz634.html ?  (if looks good, i can git-am)
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[12:55:46]  <dberkholz> daniels: f52f6c5c7efc281f9ac204fbaa4f71383df7463d looks like a good candidate for 1.4 too
 [12:56:11]  <dberkholz> oh, you got that one already.
 [12:56:47]  <dberkholz> i'm happy with the current state of 1.4 branch
 [12:57:06]  <daniels> mraudsepp: doesn't that require a new driver, though?
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[12:57:58]  <mraudsepp> daniels: True. But xf86-video-amd isn't part of katamaris either it seems
 [12:58:15]  <daniels^ 1.4.1 should be usable with all xorg 7.3 components, and not require new drivers.  we could get alanc's multiple-driver stuff and do amd/nsc/geode if possible, but that really sounds like 1.4.2, and to be honest i'm not going to do 1.4.2.  jcristau can do one if he's desperate.
 [12:58:16]  <mraudsepp> and before there was no autoconfig at all
 [12:58:38]  <mraudsepp> daniels: changing "geode" to "amd" sounds good too.
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[12:59:40]  <mraudsepp> Then it's just ab9b0b36ac with additional check on device ID
 [13:00:02]  <mraudsepp> hopefully -geode's amd backwards compatibility symlinks will just work
 [13:00:29]  <mraudsepp> amending a bit and posting again
 [13:01:10]  <daniels> dberkholz: yeah, afaict everything in your branch is merged -- i certainly pulled from it last time you asked me to (except that doing a rebase to avoid a 'merged in fdo/whatever' message appears to have blown my merge message away).
 [13:01:17]  <daniels> mraudsepp: okay, that sounds fine to me
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[13:02:04]  <ajax> daniels: thanks for the reminder for the -wm patch
 [13:02:15]  <daniels^ i live to give
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[13:03:17]  <dberkholz> daniels: yes indeed, thanks for picking 1.4 up again
 [13:03:48]  <dberkholz> i was just about ready to unleash my own (like days), so it'll be nice to have an upstream the same as anyone else still on 1.4 is using
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[13:05:11]  <mraudsepp> daniels: ok, you've got mail :)
 [13:05:40]  <idr> ajax, airlied: F9 didn't happen to pick up xf86-video-xgixp, did it?
 [13:05:54]  <dberkholz> doesn't it require ttm?
 [13:06:02]  <daniels^ np.  i just need to release 1.4.1 before 1.5.0, to save my own embarassment.
 [13:06:07]  <daniels> mraudsepp: cheers
 [13:06:08]  <dberkholz^ =)
 [13:07:01]  <idr^ Sort of.  The next question was going to be what DRM patches that F9 kernel has.
 [13:07:18]  <ajax> cvs server: cannot find module `xorg-x11-drv-xgixp' - ignored
 [13:07:23]  <dberkholz> idr: i could get it into gentoo, if you'd have any use for that
 [13:07:23]  <ajax> looks like a no to me.
 [13:07:35]  <dberkholz> we have an external drm package available
 [13:07:38]  * idr has a sad
 [13:07:57]  <daniels^ you and about seven others on the planet
 [13:08:20]  <daniels> if the userbase is less than xomap, then i'm certain i don't care.
 [13:08:47]  <idr^ Of course there aren't any users...we haven't started selling the machines.  WTF?
 [13:09:04]  <ajax> i should go ahead and package it though
 [13:09:10]  <ajax> it's got more users than vermilion
 [13:09:33]  <dberkholz> you've got ttm in the fedora kernel?
 [13:09:34]  <daniels> oh, btw, the next maemo release is going to use xorg instead of kdrive, so consider this moment pretty much EOL for any kdrive maintenance for me.  (and the start of the make-xorg-small-enough-to-run-on-arm project.)
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[13:11:06]  <ajax> idr: would i be better off packaging 1.7.99.3, or a git snapshot?
 [13:11:42]  <MrCooper> dberkholz: they need to have it somewhere for DRI2
 [13:11:49]  <ajax> i'm morally flexible about shipping git snapshots.  clearly.
 [13:12:14]  <idr^ Use the release for now.
 [13:12:32]  <dberkholz> daniels: is the mysterious memleak still a 1.4 blocker?
 [13:13:14]  <ajax> idr: aight.  i'll pop that in as an f9 update once i get back.
 [13:13:19]  <ajax> right now, i need a serious haircut.
 [13:13:20]  <ajax> bbl
 [13:13:23]  <idr> heh...
 [13:14:01]  <daniels> dberkholz: afaict, that was (at least mostly) just pathological flash resource leakage causing enormous unrecoverable heap fragmentation.
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[13:15:09]  <daniels> dberkholz: i'm troubled by all the dbus bits turning up (it's happened to multiple people), though that may just be an utter red herring.  in any case, while resource usage seems a tad high on my system, it's not a function of time afaict, so i'm tempted to close that one and just be left with the xkb one, which i never properly looked into.
 [13:17:40]  <mraudsepp> I found a machine with a weeks uptime of X with filled RAM and half-filled swap and bloody slow a week ago, guess somethings there then
 [13:17:54]  <mraudsepp> (1.4.0.90 from gentoo there I believe)
 [13:18:06]  <daniels^ pushed, thanks
 [13:18:37]  <daniels> were you running the very latest version of flash? upgrading that completely killed the leak for me.  used to climb to about 2GB within a week, now i can measure uptime in months.
 [13:18:37]  <mraudsepp^ thanks
 [13:18:51]  <dberkholz> as in flash 10 beta, or the latest 9?
 [13:19:01]  <mraudsepp> daniels: I don't know, it's 100km away fathers machine. I can check the version soon when I get the IP :)
 [13:19:23]  <daniels> i thought i'd fixed it with various patches (mainly done by inspection -- fixing memory allocation via grep is hilarious) when i was down the beach in .au, but that was just because i had minimal connectivity
 [13:19:35]  <mraudsepp> (now I need to catch public transportation)
 [13:20:23]  <daniels> as soon as i got back to melbourne and started hitting the web again, bam, memory leaks out the arse.
 [13:20:37]  <mraudsepp> it was around 500MB only I imagine, but not a huge amount of flash usage
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[13:38:07]  <parabelboi> Hi, it's me again. I've compiled xorg for ppc64 now, pci scan looks a lot better, but my radeon is still not working correctly.
 [13:38:26]  <parabelboi> this is the lspci output: http://rafb.net/p/Made1g58.html
 [13:38:45]  <parabelboi> the device is detected like this: http://rafb.net/p/muUnil92.html
 [13:39:36]  <parabelboi> looks like the rom bar is the problem here. its not in the 32bit range, is this violating pci-express spec ?
 [13:40:04]  <idr^ No.
 [13:40:22]  <idr> Let me look at your logs...hang on...
 [13:41:34]  <idr> The reason the BIOS address shows up as ??????? in the Xorg log is that we don't care what it's address is.
 [13:41:40]  <idr> We just use sysfs to read it.
 [13:41:48]  <idr> Like civilized folk. :)
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[13:42:20]  <parabelboi> but maybe you are storing its adress in 32bits
 [13:42:29]  <idr^ We're never storing it.
 [13:43:40]  <idr> We open the rom file in sysfs and read that.
 [13:44:05]  <parabelboi^ ok, i found that ??? code
 [13:45:10]  <idr^ I just included that because it used to print the address.  I suppose I should have just removed it altogether.
 [13:45:41]  <parabelboi^ indeed, it looks like an error this way
 [13:48:30]  <parabelboi> maybe the strace output helps: http://rafb.net/p/wsbPxk77.html
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[13:52:06]  <parabelboi> idr: it was not the complete output, just a grep -20 /sys/bus/pci/devices/0002:00:00.0/
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[14:02:14]  <parabelboi> idr: I just recognized, I have a HD 2400 Pro (PCIE), which is not listed as a supported card (but AGP is). I can give it a try with a HD3450, too. Maybe everythis is just correct here ;-)
 [14:02:58]  <idr^ It's basically the same chip, though.  I suspect that someone just didn't update the text listing of supported cards.
 [14:03:04]  <idr> agd5f would know better.
 [14:03:33]  <agd5f+ both should work
 [14:03:42]  <agd5f> need at least 6.8.0
 [14:03:55]  <agd5f> may need git for 3450
 [14:04:02]  <parabelboi^ I'm using git sources
 [14:04:31]  <agd5f^ no support for AGP yet.  you'll have to disable the DRI
 [14:05:19]  <agd5f> pcie should work fine.  no DRI on r6xx anyway ATM
 [14:05:30]  <agd5f> so either one should work
 [14:06:32]  <parabelboi> adg5f: good, so I just need to debug a little why it's not on PPC64 ;-)
 [14:07:14]  <agd5f^ yup
 [14:07:16]  <parabelboi^ and you will get DRI running hopefully ;-)
 [14:07:48]  <stillunknown> I doubt it's trivial.
 [14:08:42]  <idr> parabelboi: Wait...how are you booting this card?  I didn't think there were any OF R600 cards.
 [14:09:32]  <parabelboi^ booting ? you mean vm86 bios emulation ?
 [14:09:49]  <parabelboi> i thought with atombios this is not needed anymore
 [14:10:40]  <idr^ Hmm...there used to be some bugs in the atombios code on big-endian.
 [14:11:04]  <agd5f+ yeah, atom is untested on BE ATM
 [14:11:25]  <parabelboi^ not anymore ;-)
 [14:11:33]  <agd5f> benh was going to look into what was needed to fix it up
 [14:12:06]  <agd5f> you might be able to get away with byte swapping the rom when you read it in
 [14:12:25]  <parabelboi> cool, was going to ask him about that anyway. but he didn't show up in irc the last few days (at least not in my timezone)
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[14:14:28]  <idr> parabelboi: The Germany <-> Australia timezone shift is a tough one.
 [14:15:08]  <parabelboi^ afaik ben is in usa atm
 [14:15:37]  * idr is always the last to know...
 [14:16:49]  <parabelboi> ups, i hope i was not expected not to tell you ;-)
 [14:19:36]  <parabelboi> for curiosity i just checked radeonhd, it's also not working.
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[14:20:27]  <parabelboi> ok guys, have a nice weekend
 [14:20:40]  <parabelboi> and thanks for the help so far
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[14:28:45]  <dberkholz> idr: i built an alpha cross-compiler this morning, so if you need any packages, lemme know and i'll try crosscompiling them
 [14:29:04]  <idr^ Okay.
 [14:29:10]  <dberkholz> i also built a ppc one, because i could. =)
 [14:30:03]  <leio> daniels: net-www/netscape-flash-9.0.124.0
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[14:59:53]  <daniels> leio: and you're still seeing huge leaks?
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[15:13:00]  ***  _aggelos 
----- Log file opened 2008-05-19T11:44 -----
[11:44:50]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[14:08:13]  <ajax> oh cool, you can't implement faster i2c modes without breaking abi
 [14:08:29]  <ajax> timeouts smaller than 1us, fields in us.
 [14:09:34]  <stillunknown^ Isn't it possible to override more functions that is usually done?
 [14:10:26]  <stillunknown> *than is usually
 [14:10:36]  <ajax> meh, yeah.  but the timeout values are inherited from the bus.
 [14:11:48]  <ajax> not really a problem, i'm fine with just making a new api for it
 [14:15:42]  <stillunknown> Do timeouts happen that often?
 [14:15:53]  <stillunknown> (for it to be important)
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[14:43:54]  <fnf> I'm interested in adding scroll wheel acceleration support to X or the standard 'mouse' driver. What part of the code I should look into?.
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[14:44:25]  <fnf> I looked at the mouse driver source code, but the header didn't tell me much
 [14:44:46]  <idr> daniels: My SSH key doesn't seem to have been accepted.  I assume it's because of the RSA key length issue that I mentioned last week.
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[14:45:29]  <stillunknown> idr: Your key is too long?
 [14:46:15]  <daniels+ 2048-bit keys are working just fine
 [14:46:35]  <fnf> anyone? or is X not responsible for handling cursor events?
 [14:46:37]  <daniels^ you probably want to look at dix/getevents.c in the server
 [14:46:50]  * fnf goes looking
 [14:47:47]  * idr scratches his head.
 [14:48:12]  <stillunknown> What is the reason for refusal?
 [14:48:31]  <idr> daniels: I submitted it last week...could it have just not percolated through the system?
 [14:48:53]  <daniels^ try again.  if you get an error, let me know what it actually is.
 [14:49:12]  <stillunknown> I submitted a key very recently, took a few minutes.
 [14:49:42]  <idr> daniels: I didn't get an error or anything.
 [14:50:11]  <CosmicPenguin> I submitteda  key this morning, still waiting.... :(
 [14:50:11]  <stillunknown> I do hope the webinterface will be supported in the future.
 [14:50:17]  <daniels> idr: then i'm assuming sending mail with mail(1) either has an invalid return address, or never results in getting sent.
 [14:50:22]  <daniels> stillunknown: patches welcome
 [14:50:25]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: then something went wrong
 [14:50:32]  <CosmicPenguin^ badness - I'll try again
 [14:50:48]  <daniels> eight minutes is the worst-case propagation time
 [14:50:54]  <stillunknown^ I though the web interface was a standard feature of whatever you're using?
 [14:52:53]  <daniels^ there's a web interface that lets you search the ldap directory, sure.  but it's not going to help anyone update their ssh keys.
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[14:57:33]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: or the key lenght exceeds 1024 char per line
 [14:58:53]  * CosmicPenguin suspects that the exchange server is mangling things
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[16:11:31]  <dyek> Hi, what is the easiest way to trace X protocol messages or trace X server activities? Any utility available? Is xlib debug-build the answer? Is there a way to get to X server log? (One solution for these question would probably be a good start for me.)
 [16:13:40]  <ds^ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=trace+x+protocol&btnG=Search
 [16:17:04]  <dyek^ Thanks. xtrace looks just like what I was looking for. :-) Need to look into it now.
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[17:24:16]  <Linuxhippy> hi
 [17:24:40]  <Linuxhippy> is it possible to do a scaled blit without adjusting the transformation matrix?
 [17:25:01]  <Linuxhippy> something like repeat, but instead scale if dst-rect is larger than src-rect?
 [17:26:40]  <Linuxhippy> and does the transformation matrix set on a source-picture influence operations where the source-pic is only read? (e.g. SrvOver?)
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[17:30:01]  <yannf> hello
 [17:30:36]  <yannf> i have the same bug as Ubuntu #32822
 [17:30:47]  <yannf> see comment #24
 [17:30:58]  <yannf> same laptop, same chipset
 [17:31:13]  <yannf> reported on 2006-05-02
 [17:31:55]  <yannf> VIA S3 Unichrome Pro
 [17:32:02]  <daniels^ okay, cool.  if it's in our bugzilla, we'll get to it.
 [17:32:27]  <yannf> chipset PM800, PM880, CN400
 [17:32:51]  <yannf> ok, thanks
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[17:33:50]  <Linuxhippy> or, if this is the wrong place to ask questions about Render, where else should I ask them?
 [17:34:30]  <ajax^ no, it's not possible, the transformation matrix is how you effect stretch blits.
 [17:34:46]  <Linuxhippy> ah thanks
 [17:35:04]  <ajax> and yes, it applies at pixel fetch time.
 [17:35:35]  <Linuxhippy> oh that will give me a hard time :-/
 [17:35:49]  <ajax> what are you trying to do?
 [17:36:07]  <Linuxhippy> will I am trying to write an XRender backend for Java2D
 [17:36:24]  <Linuxhippy> Java2D has some sort of GC
 [17:37:15]  <Linuxhippy> so it can be copied from an image
 [17:37:34]  <Linuxhippy> but its not possible to set a transformation matrix
 [17:37:57]  <Linuxhippy> I'll just have to reset it, before its read, will that be sufficient`
 [17:38:14]  <daniels> er, doing simple stretch blits is a strict subset of transformation matrices.
 [17:38:28]  <daniels> so when you need to do a stretch blit, you calculate and set the transformation matrix.
 [17:38:41]  <Linuxhippy> that will work without any problems
 [17:39:03]  <ajax> when i say "pixel fetch time", i mean that when you go to use the source image in a blend operation, as you walk across the destination pixels, you figure out the source pixels to involve in the blend using the transform.
 [17:39:18]  <ajax> i don't mean when you define the source pixels themselves.  that's always untransformed.
 [17:39:26]  <ajax> (that's just PutImage)
 [17:39:31]  <Linuxhippy> yes, of course
 [17:39:37]  <Linuxhippy> sorry for asking that stupid
 [17:39:42]  <ajax> no worries
 [17:39:45]  <Linuxhippy> if I would like to render to a destination
 [17:39:57]  <Linuxhippy> with a scale of 2.0 / 2.0
 [17:40:13]  <Linuxhippy> do I have to set the transformation matrix on the source or the destination picture
 [17:40:17]  <ajax> source.
 [17:40:26]  <ajax> destination is never transformed.
 [17:40:32]  <Linuxhippy> or does not not matter as long as source is 1/destination
 [17:40:38]  <Linuxhippy> ah, thanks a lot for clearing that up
 [17:40:47]  <Linuxhippy> that was my misunderstanding
 [17:41:34]  <Linuxhippy> so things like XRenderFillRect, trapezoids, ... won't work with transformation (e.g. rotation)
 [17:41:52]  <daniels> anything that works on a Picture will respect the transform
 [17:42:43]  <ajax^ with the picture as a source.  he's right, FillRectangles doesn't transform.
 [17:43:11]  <Linuxhippy> so will XRenderCompositeTrapezoids transform?
 [17:43:12]  <ajax> if you want that, FillRect into a temporary, then Composite it on the real dest with a transform
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[17:43:29]  <Linuxhippy> or will just the texture used as source be transformed
 [17:43:36]  <Linuxhippy> but the points of the trap stay untransformed?
 [17:43:37]  <daniels> ajax: right
 [17:43:39]  <ssp> Linuxhippy: One trap is that the matrix should be given such that it transforms from destination to source coordinates
 [17:44:56]  <ajax+ for Trapezoids i believe the traps are in destination coordinates (ie, untransformed).
 [17:44:57]  <Linuxhippy> so if I would like to scale 2x, i have to set it to 0.5?
 [17:45:08]  <Linuxhippy> ah, thanks a lot
 [17:45:33]  <Linuxhippy> so the transform-matrix just cares about the picture used, not about destination coordinates
 [17:45:40]  <ssp^ yes
 [17:45:46]  <Linuxhippy> sorry for asking, its hard to find docs for this kind of stuff
 [17:46:22]  <Linuxhippy> thanks a lot for the explanation, I hope I may ask further as questions arises?
 [17:46:27]  <stillunknown> Is trapesium rendering even accelerated?
 [17:46:32]  <ajax> renderproto.txt is the canonical reference.  if only it weren't painfully incomplete.
 [17:46:32]  <ssp> Linuxhippy: the matrix you set on a picture is used whenever that picture is used as a source or mask in a composite operation
 [17:46:39]  <ajax> stillunknown: nope.
 [17:47:10]  <ssp^ and misleading and wrong in some places
 [17:47:32]  <ajax> indeed.
 [17:47:50]  <dberkholz> ick, i hate it when files move from one package to another.
 [17:47:57]  <Linuxhippy> well for now java still works with rects and creates mask-images for aa'ed rendering
 [17:47:58]  * stillunknown wonders why render doesn't use triangles, at least those could have been used for arbitrary shapes.
 [17:48:14]  <Linuxhippy> render also does use triangles
 [17:48:24]  <stillunknown> Not at the hw level.
 [17:48:28]  <Linuxhippy> but traps usually occupy less network bandwith
 [17:48:34]  <ajax> stillunknown: it has tris.  it's more natural for some path-decomposition algorithms to give you traps though.
 [17:48:44]  <ajax> dude, it doesn't do _any_ geometry at the hw level yet.
 [17:49:17]  <stillunknown> It does rects.
 [17:49:47]  <ajax> axis-aligned solid fills aren't really geometry.
 [17:49:57]  <ajax> but, sure.
 [17:50:00]  <Linuxhippy> so basically a rotated rectangle filled with color can't be done enterly on the GPU?
 [17:50:18]  <ajax^ Render accel sucks still.  eight years later.
 [17:50:22]  <Linuxhippy> if you don't want to created hundreds of traps out of it
 [17:50:38]  <stillunknown> Some gpu's will do it gladly, but if you can access it is another question.
 [17:51:13]  <ssp> Linuxhippy: Three traps should be sufficient ...
 [17:51:32]  <Linuxhippy> but don't traps degenerate to mask-fills
 [17:51:43]  <Linuxhippy> which are basically done by pixman?
 [17:51:46]  <stillunknown> If you want more than rects accelerated, then i xrender may not be what you want.
[17:52:32]  <ssp> Linuxhippy: They degenerate to software rasterization to a surface which is then used as a mask, yes
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[17:54:19]  <Linuxhippy> last question
 [17:54:42]  <Linuxhippy> I tried blits using a transformation matrix from one window-backed picture to another
 [17:54:51]  <Linuxhippy> but the result was just a black square
 [17:55:02]  <Linuxhippy> are transformations from one window to another not supported?
 [17:55:17]  <ajax> Render on windows happens to not work well because the implementation is bad.
 [17:55:47]  <ajax> normally this isn't a problem because no one wants to draw to windows anyway, except for the final CopyArea to get the bits on the screen
 [17:55:48]  <Linuxhippy> as source or destination? or always?
 [17:56:05]  <ajax> because it's flickery as hell.  thanks X.
 [17:56:43]  <ajax> always, afaict.  it's a bug, we should fix it, but...
 [17:56:44]  <ssp> Source windows are essentially useless because you don't get GraphicsExposes
 [17:57:08]  <ssp> So you have no way to make sure you actually get the right content on the destination
 [17:57:17]  <Linuxhippy> yes, sure
 [17:58:23]  <Linuxhippy> thanks a lot for the explanations :)
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[17:58:44]  <Linuxhippy> i just wonder where x will go
 [17:59:14]  <ssp> The render spec claims that you do get them, but it's lying
 [17:59:48]  <Linuxhippy> for that kind of thing I'll simply use the old X11-Core based code
 [17:59:54]  <Linuxhippy> which does all the expose handling
 [18:00:41]  <ssp^ The problem is if you use a partially obscured window as a source, then the copy of the obscured parts will be black and you will have no sane way of knowing that
 [18:01:40]  <ssp> which means windows *cannot* be used as render sources in a correct way
 [18:02:03]  <Linuxhippy> thanks for clearification
 [18:02:09]  <ssp> So don't try unless you are also going to fix the implementation ...
 [18:02:21]  <Linuxhippy> hmm, I'll have find some way arround this
 [18:02:47]  <stillunknown> Why are you trying to duplicate a scaled window?
 [18:03:42]  <njs_> ssp: in principle you can use windows as sources just fine by using composite and damage
 [18:04:22]  <njs_> in practice I think I tried this on 3 different X drivers and hit 4 different show-stopper bugs, so never mind that...
 [18:04:42]  <ssp^ That turns the windows into pixmaps where you don't have the problem, but you can't really do that for toplevel windows unless you control what window manager runs
 [18:04:46]  <njs_> but the workaround is just to use NameWindowPixmap to get a pixmap that acts just like the window you care about, then use that pixmap
 [18:05:16]  <njs_> ssp: why can't you do it for toplevels?  (I was writing a wm, so I haven't thought about the problem)
 [18:06:44]  <stillunknown> Aren't toplevels actually on the frontbuffer?
 [18:07:03]  <Linuxhippy> well, one possibility could be to restrict Render on Windows to destination surfaces
 [18:07:29]  <Linuxhippy> and fall back to XGetImage if its used as source
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[18:08:43]  <ssp> njs_: Hmm, possibly
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[18:10:23]  <ssp> njs_: I'm sort of expecting it to blow up spectacularly, but I can't give a good reason why it should
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[18:11:02]  <Linuxhippy> my english is a bit bad ... do you mean blow up by code, or that it won't work at all?
 [18:11:04]  <mbalmer> w. umme'
 [18:11:32]  <ssp> Linuxhippy: I just mean "not work in various weird ways"
 [18:12:32]  <ssp> njs_: If you wanted to that, it would be a lot simpler to simply keep a persistent back buffer around and copy it to the window as necessary
 [18:12:47]  <Linuxhippy> I guess the whole thing will cause much more troubles that I thought :-/
 [18:13:04]  <ssp> That would produce the same effect in a less Rube Goldberg way
 [18:13:05]  <njs_> Linuxhippy: XGetImage works exactly like Render in this respect, I think
 [18:13:05]  <Linuxhippy> the problem is that java allows drawing directly to the window
 [18:13:41]  <Linuxhippy> well, for this special case I have to look what the Java2D spec says
 [18:14:01]  <ssp^ Drawing directly _to_ a window should work
 [18:14:01]  <Linuxhippy> maybe its no problem to get the actual content of the window, be it empty or not
 [18:14:41]  <Linuxhippy> but doesn't SrcOver to a window use the window also as source?
 [18:15:14]  <njs_> ssp: if you can find the XID of the window you want to copy, then it should be possible to just enable Automatic redirect mode on it (regardless of window manager fu), NameWindowPixmap, and do whatever
 [18:15:28]  <stillunknown> The problem lies with having an incomplete window.
 [18:15:54]  <njs_> ssp: it will still be a lot of code, all of it tricky, to accomplish a pretty simple task, but, well, that's X.
 [18:17:20]  <ssp^ How about the scenario where the window does not have decorations and you redirect it. Will it clip its siblings?
 [18:19:31]  <ssp> I agree it should work in principle, but the same effect could be achieved by manually keeping a pixmap around as backing store without depending on the somewhat unclear semantics of composite
 [18:24:55]  <ssp> Linuxhippy: 'Over' does make use of the contents of the window, but obscured parts are just obscured, so the composite operation doesn't care about them.
[18:24:58]  <njs_^ if you Manual redirect it then it stops clipping its siblings, if you Automatic redirect it then it keeps clipping its siblings.  Says so right in the spec :-)
 [18:25:23]  <njs_> but absolutely agreed that it's not the best implementation approach for achieving many goals
 [18:25:35]  <Linuxhippy> ah great, as far as I know that is perfectly fine for java
 [18:26:30]  <ssp> There could be clipping bugs, but if there are, they are likely fixable
 [18:27:25]  <Linuxhippy> thanks a lot for all your help and suggestions!
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[18:30:10]  <Linuxhippy> so DST will use the transformation from the destination-surface?
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[18:30:32]  <Linuxhippy> because its the surface read from?
 [18:31:11]  <Linuxhippy> or will it read from the destination untransformed and transform it to the source-transform
 [18:31:30]  <ssp^ destinations are never transformed
 [18:31:42]  <Linuxhippy> ok, fine
 [18:31:54]  <Linuxhippy> good that its consistent
 [18:38:24]  <Linuxhippy> thanks
 [18:38:29]  <Linuxhippy> ciao
 [18:44:59]  <dberkholz> daniels: could you cherrypick e7a364425547103a98acabfc67d16e1ae0c2967f 333e7123dc484888d79c0f5aa3977bd72f1eb341 for 1.4?
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[19:08:21]  <idr> daniels: Did DSA GPG keys get the boot as well?
 [19:08:42]  <idr> (I'm assuming so...since my GPG isn't groked by the e-mail system.)
 [19:08:52]  <jcristau> no
 [19:09:48]  <dberkholz> it may not have been uploaded into the ldap
 [19:10:05]  <cjb> idr: GPG?  GPG doesn't use openssl, so I don't see why it would.
 [19:10:06]  <dberkholz> daniels: sascha requested those
 [19:10:37]  <idr> Well....WTF.
 [19:11:34]  <jcristau> daniels, dberkholz: i was thinking maybe fa19e847 + 82c4075d
 [19:12:51]  <dberkholz^ are those from 1.5 branch? didn't see 'em on master
 [19:12:55]  <jcristau> master
 [19:13:02]  <dberkholz> maybe i just can't type
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[19:13:27]  <dberkholz> ok, multimonitor stuff
 [19:13:30]  <dberkholz> sure, fine
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[19:28:57]  <dyek> Hi! Is there any changes in X protocol between X11R6 and X11R7? Is Release 7 introducing major changes only in the source tree (modularized it, etc.), but not X protocol?
 [19:29:41]  <alanc^ correct, X protocol did not change, only the build/release process & source layout
 [19:30:30]  <dyek> Thanks. Question 2: How can I tell which version I have from Xorg --version output:
 [19:30:31]  <dyek> X Window System Version 1.3.0
 [19:30:36]  <dyek> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3
 [19:30:40]  <dyek> Build ID: xorg-x11-server 1.3.0.0-33.fc8
 [19:31:08]  <alanc> last change to core X protocol was R6.7 or 6.8 when IPv6 changes went in
 [19:31:24]  <alanc> that would be xorg-server version 1.3.0
 [19:32:09]  <alanc> which has a known bug in reporting the server version as the X protocol version and the X Window System version, neither of which are correct
 [19:32:35]  <alanc> xorg 1.3.0 was a release in between X11R7.2 and X11R7.3
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[19:35:36]  <dyek> Even with core X protocol changes, its minor version remains 0?
 [19:36:33]  <alanc> I think so, don't remember why
 [19:36:54]  <alanc> presumably explained in the versioning section of the X11 standard docs
 [19:38:35]  <dyek^ Thanks much!
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[20:13:55]  <whot> dyek, alanc: the minor version is supposed to be for downwards-compatible changes to the core protocol.
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[21:45:16]  <njs_> how weird... with r128 direct rending, and sync-to-vblank enabled, calling the flip function blocks until the vblank occurs (as desired), but then doesn't *actually* flip the buffer until about 1-2ms later, so you still get tearing.
 [21:46:48]  <marcheu> look at driconf, IIRC there ar eways to choose how vbank wait is implemented
 [21:47:03]  <marcheu> vblank evne
 [21:47:36]  <marcheu> bah so many typos
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[21:49:16]  <njs_> marcheu: not for r128, looks like.  and in any case, the blocking until vblank part works *perfectly*... just for some reason it doesn't actually flip the buffers until well after it's seen the vblank and returned.
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[21:49:40]  <airlied> yeah surprisingly I think vbl swap in userspace can be a bit slow.
 [21:51:27]  * benh wonders where airlied "surprisingly" comes from ;-)
 [21:51:30]  <njs_> airlied: not sure what you mean by vbl swap in userspace?
 [21:51:52]  <njs_> (which part is in userspace and surprisingly slow?)
 [21:51:58]  <airlied^ the actual swap is initiated from userspace, so the vbl interrupt happens, it then has to schedule the userspace app
 [21:52:02]  <airlied> to do the actual swap
 [21:53:02]  <marcheu> njs_: can't you use page flipping on that card ? that should be ok I think
 [21:53:32]  <njs_> airlied: "the userspace app" in this case is the one that's linked to libmesa etc., i.e. this is the same process where my code is running?
 [21:53:33]  <airlied> also blit can be slow.. and we had other problems blitting bottom to top ..
 [21:53:39]  <airlied> njs_: yup..
 [21:53:57]  <njs_^ because my app is being scheduled and executing my code again well before the swap actually happens
 [21:54:48]  <airlied^ have you added printfs to where it actually does the blit?
 [21:55:13]  <njs_^ for testing I'm just using a glRect call to blank the screen to white/black
 [21:55:25]  <njs_> which shouldn't take 10+ms, I would think...?
 [21:55:47]  <airlied> 10ms sounds like scheduler granularity
 [21:55:51]  <njs_^ no
 [21:55:57]  <njs_> running on an -rt kernel at rt priority :-)
 [21:56:09]  <airlied^ ah in that case you'll need to try and instrtument it
 [21:56:22]  <airlied> from when the interrupt fires to when the apps happens.
 [21:56:26]  <airlied> it might be the DRM_WAIT_ON loop
 [21:56:27]  <njs_^ yeah
 [21:56:38]  <njs_> the app is scheduled instantly at the vblank
 [21:56:43]  <njs_> and then the flip happens later
 [21:56:58]  <njs_> after we've left the GL stack and are back in my own code
 [21:57:56]  <njs_> I'm basically doing 'swap_buffers(); munge_pin_on_parallel_port()', and running the parallel port pin and some pins on the VGA cable into an oscilloscope
 [21:59:04]  <airlied^ so swap buffers returns and then it does the blit later?
 [21:59:19]  <airlied> hmm wierd.. no idea the copy buffer might just take a long time.
 [21:59:30]  <airlied> or maybe there is something wrong in the vbl stuff.
 [21:59:51]  <njs_^ I dunno if it's the blit or the swap or what, but yes, swap buffers returns and then the image being sent down the VGA cable switches >1ms later
 [22:01:29]  <njs_> (if I plug in a monitor and flicker black/white like that then there's also a very obvious tear line ~1/6 of the way from the top of the screen, different way of saying the same thing)
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[22:03:00]  <njs_> airlied: I'm happy to try debugging this more, but have gotten about as far as I can without hints
 [22:03:07]  <airlied^ sounds like maybe a long blit time, you might try pageflipping
 [22:03:26]  <airlied> really you want to see if the blit is in the ring r128 ring..
 [22:03:36]  <airlied> which is in r128_cce.c in the kernel.
 [22:05:14]  <njs_> "maybe a long blit time, you might try pageflipping" <-- not sure I'm following what's being referred to here.  Is the idea that having drawn on the backbuffer, the driver can implement swap() either by blitting from the backbuffer to the frontbuffer or just by swapping the frontbuffer/backbuffer pointers, and by default the r128 driver does the former?
 [22:05:46]  <airlied^ yes pretty much.
 [22:05:57]  <airlied> the pageflip code is in the driver alrady, just not sure if its enabled.
 [22:06:09]  <airlied> bbl.. lunch time.
 [22:06:30]  <njs_^ thanks, let me see...
 [22:06:46]  <airlied> look for PageFlip
 [22:07:20]  <njs_> (I'm just using the ubuntu-compiled 2.6.24 -rt kernel, so it may not have everything bleeding edge)
 [22:07:37]  <airlied^ no its in the Mesa driver mostly.
 [22:07:44]  <airlied> nobody has touch r128 in a long time.
 [22:08:39]  <airlied> I think you just need to add Option "Pageflip" "true" to xorg.conf
 [22:08:43]  <airlied> but not 100% sure.
 [22:08:50]  <njs_^ nod.  ...is there another driver where this would just work?  because buying a new card is cheaper than spending a week dredging through the kernel :-)
 [22:09:12]  <airlied^ unfortuantely integrated intel chips have the best support.
 [22:10:33]  <njs_> my drivers/char/drm/r128*.c don't have anything very promising re: pageflip (i.e., there's "do_init_pageflip", "do_cleanup_pageflip", and no other mentions)
 [22:11:52]  <njs_> AFAICT on my laptop, the intel drivers don't block at all the first time you swap, and then if you immediately request another swap, they block until two vsyncs have gone by
 [22:12:26]  <airlied^ r128_cce_flip is in my tree.
 [22:12:29]  <njs_> which might give nice tear-free results but is... sub-optimal, if you want to know when the swap actually occurred.
 [22:13:09]  <njs_> airlied: where's that?
 [22:13:10]  <airlied> I think you can use GL extensions to tune that..
 [22:13:14]  <airlied> njs_: r128_state.c
 [22:13:31]  <airlied> okay seriously lunch.
 [22:13:41]  <njs_> oh, I see *looks*
 [22:13:44]  <njs_> and thanks for the help!
 [22:17:11]  <njs_> hah... my x log file actually says "(II) R128(0): Page flipping disabled"
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[22:22:21]  <njs_> ah-hah!
 [22:22:48]  <njs_> airlied: apparently it's spelled "EnablePageFlip", and turning it on removes the tearing (on the screen and on my scope)
 [22:23:18]  <njs_> thanks so much.
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[23:49:58]  <vignatti> airlied: hi dave
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[23:50:22]  <vignatti> airlied: so for now are you forgetting vga arbitration and will just use the Linux sysfs to setup the cards?
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[23:51:28]  <airlied> vignatti: no I still need VGA arb.
 [23:51:36]  <airlied> I however need to enable PCI bars before that.
 [23:51:58]  <airlied> X used to enable bars but doesn't anymore.
 [23:56:02]  <idr^ Could / should the enable happen automatically when the BAR is mapped?
 [23:56:36]  <airlied^ I'd have to do it once per bar but I need it to post the ROM..
 [23:56:45]  <airlied> the only place I can hook is maybe the ROM read code.
 [23:58:30]  <whot> vignatti: ever had a look at the updated hwcursor patch?
 [23:58:39]  <vignatti> airlied: humm. So I misunderstood the email which you replied :/
 [23:58:58]  <vignatti> (and yes, I know that the vga arb code is ugly. It was my first adventure inside linux)
 [23:59:01]  <vignatti> heh
 [23:59:33]  <vignatti> whot: nop Peter. I'll take a look tomorrow. I promise :)
 [23:59:41]  <whot> cool. thx
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[00:04:36]  <vignatti> whot: I'm just trying to acostume myself again with the input code, understading a bit about mpx paths and etc
 [00:05:05]  <vignatti> but now I hope be ready enough with that to really start my SoC project before my mentor (hi daniels) starts to kick me
 [00:05:09]  <vignatti> heh
 [00:07:03]  <whot^ hey, mpx should be easier than previous input code ;)
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[00:11:07]  <vignatti> airlied: Are you setting HAVE_PCI_DEVICE_ENABLE by hand?
 [00:11:19]  <airlied^ nope from the configure.ac
 [00:11:49]  <airlied> AC_CHECK_FUNCS does it
 [00:11:53]  <vignatti^ dooh oops
 [00:12:21]  <vignatti> cool, really tiny patch
 [00:12:40]  <airlied^ yeah the pciaccess side is trivial.
 [00:12:45]  <airlied> but at least my second card is getting posted now.
 [00:13:06]  <vignatti^ and did you thought about a userspace implementation of the arbiter (in a long term), so others OSs that do not have the implementation could use it
 [00:13:09]  <vignatti> it would be cool
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[00:21:36]  <airlied> vignatti: I care little for other OSes that can't afford kernel hackers :)
 [00:22:02]  <airlied> really VGA arb needs to be in the kernel, all we should do it add the abstraction layer.
 [00:27:41]  <vignatti^ when I first tested that implementation of the arbter I was afraid with the number of context switches that could occur
 [00:28:00]  <vignatti> fortunately the experiments showed that it does not affect the server performance
 [00:28:23]  <vignatti> so in that situation I imagined that an userspace coudl be better, just doing the essential things inside the kernel
 [00:28:30]  <vignatti> just a thought...
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[00:44:01]  <airlied> vignatti: well Linux doesn't need it, unless another OS wants to do it I wouldn't bother :)
 [00:44:25]  <airlied> we shouldn't hit the arb paths that often.
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[02:10:34]  <dyek2> Hi, is it conforming to X Protocol (ignoring inefficiency) if a client/widget keeps sending CreatePixmap, FreePixmap, even when the screen is locked?
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[02:13:21]  <dyek2> When X server is locked, would it continue to process X client's CreatePixmap and FreePixmap requests? Or would the requests buffered until the screen is unlocked and then being processed?
 [02:13:53]  <whot^ AFAIK the server doesn't have a concept of lock (other than what is specified in GrabServer)
 [02:13:58]  <whot> the lock is client-side
 [02:14:01]  <DrNick> screen locking is largely unrelated to the X protocol
 [02:14:14]  <whot> dyek2: i.e. you can do what you want, just don't expect any input.
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[02:16:00]  <dyek2> whot, DrNick: That makes sense. Thanks!
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[02:19:30]  <dyek2> So, I'm trying to figure out a weird issue where my app/widget continued to do periodic drawing (and perhaps other stuffs that I am not yet paying attention to); after 4 hours or overnight, when the screen is unlocked, xorg spins like crazy, consuming huge amount of memory, making the entire desktop unresponsive, until the app is killed.
 [02:21:23]  <dyek2> I would like to be able to see traces of what is happening in X server. What is a good starting point to peek inside X server?
 [02:21:35]  <whot> gdb?
 [02:21:54]  <whot> you can also try xmond (or xscape I think) to try to snoop the traffic between your app
 [02:22:17]  <whot> but best might be to attach gdb, ctr+c and just see what the server is doing
 [02:22:25]  <dyek2> I use xtrace to snoop traffic. Is that equivalent to snoop?
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[02:22:57]  <dyek2> OK. I sure can do that.
 [02:23:02]  <whot> xtrace is fine
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[03:05:09]  <MacSlow> where to look up request_code (143) and minor_code (5)
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[03:05:50]  <MacSlow> I'm search the extension headers up and down but don't find a hint regarding request_code 143
 [03:10:14]  <MrCooper^ xdpyinfo -queryExtensions|grep 143
 [03:13:05]  <MacSlow^ thanks...
 [03:13:16]  <MrCooper> np
 [03:13:38]  <MrCooper> extension request codes are assigned at runtime
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[03:16:47]  <MacSlow> MrCooper, just confused ... I thought the request-code is static and not dynamically assigned
 [03:17:09]  <MrCooper> only for core requests
 [03:17:56]  <Dodji> it would be a nightmare if they were assigned statically
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[03:18:08]  <MacSlow> MrCooper, but the minor-requests of an extension are fixed?
 [03:18:31]  <MrCooper> yes
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[03:19:06]  <MrCooper> so you need the above to find out the extension, then look up the minor code in the extension proto header
 [03:19:32]  <MacSlow> Dodji, I assumed that they were fixed
 [03:20:01]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:20:05]  <MrCooper> if extension request codes were fixed, the number of extensions in the universe would be limited ;)
 [03:20:51]  <MrCooper> and we would need a central registry
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[03:21:23]  <Dodji> and someone to manage the registry ...
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[05:03:28]  <whot> anyone running gnome and git master?
 [05:05:31]  <eboettcher> me
 [05:06:10]  <whot^ when you start gnome-session, does the up key work?
 [05:06:42]  <eboettcher> up key?
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[05:07:35]  <whot> yep. the one on the cursor pad (or whatever its called)
 [05:07:47]  <eboettcher> no issues with it...
 [05:08:00]  <MrCooper> same here
 [05:08:13]  <MrCooper> wasn't this a symptom of using the evdev driver with pc105 keymap?
 [05:10:07]  <whot^ well, maybe. but this seems to be broken in mpx
 [05:10:15]  <whot> s/seems/is/
 [05:10:27]  <whot> I get a screenshot, if I kill metacity, it works fine after that
 [05:12:10]  <MrCooper> hmm, so maybe the keymap changes at some point and metacity doesn't adapt?
 [05:12:59]  <whot^ dont think so, otherwise master wouldn't have the problem. I think some keymap event may get lost
 [05:14:28]  <MrCooper> well I'm basically talking out of my ass anyway, you know much more about these things than I do :)
 [05:14:56]  <airlied> gnome i storing something somewhere.
 [05:15:42]  <whot^ that's what daniels said too. but if that is the case, master would have the same issue
 [05:18:44]  <airlied^ true..
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[05:29:57]  <whot> anyway. that's for tomorrow.
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[06:39:37]  <[AD]Turbo> what it the best (fastest) way, under x11, to blit a custom 32bit buffer inside a window (covering it at 100%) ?
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[09:45:59]  <ajax> so i think the world becomes a much happier place if i just turn xinerama multiplexing on all the time
 [09:46:13]  <ajax> the only problem then is pacifying the weirdos who think zaphod mode is something desirable.
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[10:00:44]  <wereHamster> zaphod mode is desirable if you have two monitors with different resolutions
 [10:01:31]  <ajax> huh?
 [10:01:45]  <ajax> why would you not want spanning for that?
 [10:01:55]  <glisse^ i think only Dave has a small idea of who the hell is ussing zaphod
 [10:02:17]  <glisse> weren't you working on somethings to make this things of the past like being able to resize screen :)
 [10:02:48]  <ajax^ kinda.  my long term plan has been to emulate zaphod mode way the hell up in the common layer
 [10:03:16]  <wereHamster> see for example gnome panels. If one monitor has a smaller vertical resolution, the panel is hidden on that monitor. Which can make the panel pretty unusable
 [10:03:35]  <ajax^ uh, my gnome panel is only on the one screen.  maybe you're doing something wrong.
 [10:03:52]  <ajax> it should be geometry-aware
 [10:04:05]  <ajax> (and if it's not, that's a gnome bug, not a motivation for an X misfeature)
 [10:04:23]  <wereHamster> do you have a separate panel per monitor?
 [10:04:40]  <ajax> i only have the one atm
 [10:04:45]  <ajax> but it's on one monitor only.
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[10:06:39]  <wereHamster> I was using zaphod mode before, and now that I have two monitors with identical configuration I switched TwinView on. However I find it sometimes more difficult to use then it was before.
 [10:08:01]  <wereHamster> it's a userspace problem really, but until that gets fixed a zaphod mode may sometimes indeed be desirable
 [10:08:43]  <agd5f> daniels: any chance you could look at why the server won't take my new ssh key?
 [10:08:59]  <daniels^ what's the exact error?
 [10:09:21]  <agd5f^ "Message Error: Verification of signature failed"
 [10:09:33]  <agd5f> benjsc fixed teh gpg issue so "show" works now
 [10:09:50]  <agd5f> but when I send my new key I get the above error
 [10:09:59]  <benjsc> daniels: I'm not sure what the issue is - be grateful to find out though
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[10:13:55]  <daniels> agd5f: usually indicative of lines being wrapped
 [10:15:59]  <daniels> idr: no, we haven't made any changes whatsoever to gpg key handling.
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[10:16:11]  <daniels> dberkholz: please send me an email and i'll pull it in a couple of days
 [10:16:12]  <daniels> jcristau: you too
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[10:24:20]  <benjsc> daniels: nagios finally annoyed me enough to fix it :)
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[10:26:02]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: I sent several "show" requests to the change bot yesterday, but never heard back - if my key was bad or missing, would I get a error message, or is silence the expected response?
 [10:28:12]  <benjsc^ you should get something back.
 [10:28:32]  <CosmicPenguin> then my mail system loses
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[10:33:45]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: indeed it does.  jcrouse@cosmic.amd.com doesn't route.
 [10:33:58]  <daniels> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
 [10:33:58]  <daniels> THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.
 [10:33:58]  <daniels> YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
 [10:33:58]  <daniels> Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.
 [10:33:58]  <daniels>        jcrouse@cosmic.amd.com
 [10:34:08]  <daniels> amd.com's mail server appears to be pretty crap as well.
 [10:34:12]  <CosmicPenguin> ack!
 [10:34:14]  <daniels> benjsc: ah, thanks ... what was the problem?
 [10:34:18]  <CosmicPenguin> where the hell did it get that email address from?
 [10:34:30]  <daniels^ presumably username@hostname.amd.com? :)
 [10:34:38]  <CosmicPenguin> that would be the problem
 [10:34:52]  <jcristau> daniels: ok, mail sent with nominations for 1.4.1
 [10:34:55]  <daniels^ ta
 [10:35:36]  <benjsc^ nagious didn't know about the hostkeys. I regnereated all keys to be rsa & updated on each host
 [10:36:13]  <daniels^ oh, hostkeys, bah.  i regenerated all the keys, but forgot the crucial last step. :)
 [10:36:27]  <daniels> (~danielsR/.ssh/known_hosts was fine, /root/.ssh/k_h was not.)
 [10:36:31]  * daniels disappears for a while.
 [10:42:03]  <rvalles> anybody familiar with xterm? bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=220026
 [10:42:49]  <daniels^ that's a bug about openoffice
 [10:42:50]  <tjaalton> doesn't seem like an xterm bug to me :)
 [10:47:34]  <rvalles> how the heck did I paste that?
 [10:47:49]  <rvalles> oh, off by one
 [10:47:52]  <rvalles> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15979
 [10:47:56]  <rvalles> that's the correct one
 [10:48:12]  <rvalles> it seems my hand slipped there ;)
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[13:13:07]  <ajax> something funky going on with cursors on r500
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[13:16:54]  <stillunknown> ajax: funky as in?
 [13:17:50]  <ajax> the glyph draws wrong sometimes
 [13:18:05]  <ajax> appears to be a function of screen coords and not window coords.
 [13:19:00]  <stillunknown> What has that got to do with cursors?
 [13:19:22]  <ajax> um.  what has the cursor drawing wrong got to do with cursors?
 [13:19:27]  <ajax> strange question.
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[13:21:16]  <stillunknown> ajax: I don't associate a glyph with cursors.
 [13:22:00]  <ajax> that's one way of looking at the world, i suppose.
 [13:22:38]  <stillunknown> And aren't hardware cursors always a function of screen coordinates?
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[13:29:10]  <idr> frustration++;
 [13:29:22]  <idr> daniels: > > ssh-rsa
 [13:29:22]  <idr> Command is not understood. Halted
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[13:30:22]  <stillunknown> and show works?
 [13:31:39]  <idr^ Checking...
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[13:33:02]  <idr> Your request to the mail gateway is malformed, or an internal processing
 [13:33:02]  <idr> error occured. The information below may help you, or the gateway
 [13:33:02]  <idr> administrator to identify the problem.
 [13:33:23]  <idr> Is there some less ass-y way this could be done?
 [13:33:26]  <idr> Seriously.
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[13:40:26]  <stillunknown> idr: daniels said he'd accept patches
 [13:40:42]  <idr^ Accept patches to what?!?
 [13:40:44]  <stillunknown> (when i asked for a webinterface)
 [13:41:30]  <stillunknown> I think they're running ldap.
 [13:41:44]  <stillunknown> But the exact setup is (obviously) unknown to me.
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[15:04:19]  <federico2> hi all
 [15:04:55]  <federico2> XRRQueryVersion() always gives me 1.2.  How can I find out if the driver being used really supports hotplug notifications?
 [15:06:00]  <ajax> you can't.  but don't worry, none of them do.
 [15:07:00]  <ajax> at least, not yet.
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[15:10:44]  <federico2> ajax: oh?  I thought some already did?
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[15:11:04]  <[vic]> hello to all, I found interestin bug in xf86input.c that possible present only on FreeBSD 6.x version; I found temp solution for me, but also whant to imform someone
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[15:12:22]  <federico2> ajax: a semi-related thing - how can I tell if the driver will allow changing the virtual size dynamically?  (that's XRRSetScreenSize, right?)
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[15:16:40]  <ajax> hmm.
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[15:18:16]  <ajax> probably by checking XRRGetScreenSizeRange() for maxima of 2^15-1
 [15:19:18]  <federico2^ oh, interesting.  Thanks, I'll play with that
 [15:19:20]  <ajax> you'd think 0, but the code seems to assume the maxima are real.  but 32767 is the protocol coordinate limit.
 [15:20:41]  <federico2^ the problem is this:  gnome-display-properties lets you nicely configure your dual monitors, *but* it will only work if your xorg.conf already has a Virtual size that will fit both monitors.  The idea is to avoid having to tweak a config file :)
 [15:21:16]  <ajax> right now we pretty much don't have drivers that let you reconfigure the front buffer to arbitrary sizes.
 [15:21:23]  <ajax> so it hasn't come up ;)
 [15:21:59]  <ajax> i think i can make the guarantee that drivers that can do arbitrary geometries will just advertise 32767 square as the maximum dimensions.
 [15:22:15]  <anholt^ unless you have coordinate limits.
 [15:22:22]  <anholt> so just respect maximum size and be done with it.
 [15:22:29]  <anholt> don't make some magic number.
 [15:23:17]  <ajax> nngh.  problem though.
 [15:23:21]  <ajax> the max size is per screen.
 [15:23:52]  <ajax> and not, for example, per gpu or per crtc.
 [15:24:42]  <ajax> i guess in a shatter world you can just look at the available modes for a crtc and there shouldn't be gpu limits at all in some sense.
 [15:25:39]  <ajax> so yeah, respect the max size we tell you, but in a multi-gpu world i'm really not going to have any choice but to report 2^15-1 and occasionally fail potentially legitimate requests if the drivers can't do them
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[15:27:12]  <ssp> So we need per CRTC maximums then
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[15:28:52]  <ajax> ssp: yeah, i think so.  you can't just look at the mode list, since that's a) per-output and b) doesn't reflect the hardware limits on the source side.
 [15:29:28]  <ajax> which i guess is just one point: mode lists are sink-side, not source-side.
 [15:30:32]  <ssp> That's correct I think - normally the monitor is limiting the modes, not the CRTC, except for coordinate limits
 [15:31:50]  <ajax> on new hardware that's almost always true.
 [15:32:32]  <federico2> is there a glossary of randr terms?
 [15:32:44]  <ajax> on like s3virge you can get weird things like a 4kb pitch limit on the source side, but, s3virge, piss off.
 [15:33:38]  <aaronp^ I'm working on some more Xinerama visual consolidation code, and it would be nice to have a mechanism to test whether a given visual was accepted by PanoramiXConsolidate.  Would you be opposed to me moving the "if (screen == 0) return orig" short-circuiting to after we've made sure that visual actually exists on screen 0 in PanoramiXTranslateVisualID?
 [15:33:40]  <ajax> federico2: the randr protocol doc is canonical, and not _that_ terrible.
 [15:34:02]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/randrproto/tree/randrproto.txt
 [15:34:30]  <ssp^ That's already expressable as a maximum screen width
 [15:34:49]  <ajax^ not if i have an s3v and a radeon in the same box.
 [15:35:23]  <federico2^ thanks
 [15:37:19]  <ajax> aaronp: hmm.
 [15:37:27]  <ssp^ To fix that you'd have to expose the fact that the s3v crtcs are on the same card
 [15:37:39]  <ajax^ well yes, i plan to add a gpu object to randr.
 [15:37:45]  <ajax> i thought this was well established.
 [15:38:02]  <ssp^ And then you could have a per-gpu size limit
 [15:38:28]  <ssp> But yes, wacky corner case
[15:38:29]  <ajax^ i don't think you do if shatter works, since that'll rewrite rendering relative to each crtc pixmap.
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[15:40:55]  <aaronp> ajax: http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/0001-Short-circuit-PanoramiXTranslateVisualID-after-verif.patch
 [15:41:04]  <ssp+ True, if shatter will reallocate all the pixmaps whenever something changes about the modes, then a per-CRTC maximum should cover this case too
 [15:41:49]  <ssp> You would gain a tiny bit of efficiency by having one big pixmap for the two s3v CRTCs when possible, but .. who case
 [15:41:53]  <ssp> cares
 [15:42:01]  <ajax> aaronp: yeah, okay.  i see what you're after there, and i think taking out that short-circuiting would be fine.  is it not sufficient to look at the connection block though?
 [15:42:21]  <aaronp> Hmm, does the driver have access to the connection block?
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[15:44:05]  <ajax> aaronp: yes, although not intentionally.  it's not explicitly exported but ELF would let it happen.  on second thought i think i'm against drivers playing with the connection block directly, so forget i said anything ;)
 [15:44:22]  <aaronp> Yeah, that looks gross.
 [15:44:36]  <aaronp> I could add a new query function as a compromise.
 [15:45:02]  <ajax^ nah, i think fixing the query we've got is fine.
 [15:45:10]  <aaronp> Okay, thanks.
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[15:46:15]  <federico2> ssp: quick question - so our git repos are obsolete now, and everything is in the svn branches for gnome?
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[15:46:42]  <ssp> federico2: Yes, and I'll soon merge those to head
 [15:46:50]  <federico2^ ok, cool
 [15:46:57]  <ajax+ yeah, shatter is flexible enough now to allow as many or as few pixmaps as you want for backing.  if you have four crtcs but two of them would fit in a single allocation and still be accelerable, shatter will let you do that as three shards.
 [15:47:09]  <ssp> federico2: Feel free to commit to the randr branches as you see fit
 [15:47:22]  <ajax> it's sort of an accident, but it's a pleasant property anyway.
 [15:47:24]  <federico2> ssp: sigh, I wish I weren't fighting fires all over the place; otherwise I'd concentrate on this
 [15:47:55]  <ssp^ I think the gnomecc list is probably the right one to use for discussions about features etc.
 [15:48:07]  <federico2^ ok, I'll subscribe
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[16:34:20]  <dyek> Hi, any idea what is the following request and what operations in GTK+ are related to it?
 [16:34:21]  <dyek> 000:<:b79274:  4: XC-MISC-Request(133,1): unknown
 [16:34:28]  <dyek> 000:>:9274:32: unexpected reply
 [16:35:31]  <ajax> that's the XID reuse extension
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[16:35:46]  <ajax> and it's only not available because you seriously screwed up your configuration
 [16:35:50]  <ajax> Load "extmod"
 [16:36:07]  <dyek> Yes, that sounds very much relevant.
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[16:36:48]  <dyek> I'm not sure if I messed with any configuration though. It could be shipped with distributions.
 [16:36:49]  <ajax> that reminds me to make that extension non-optional.
 [16:38:11]  <dyek> I think I'm inching closer to the problem where Xorg spins when responding to this regular periodic requests, making the entire desktop unusable.
 [16:38:14]  <dberkholz> here's something i'm curious about
 [16:38:41]  <dberkholz> i'd like to build the fixed/cursor fonts into the server, but i don't want to lose the ability to use xfs
 [16:38:50]  <dberkholz> or other core fonts
 [16:39:25]  <ajax> dyek: the deal is that XIDs are a limited resource.  bare X doesn't give you any way to know what XIDs you can reuse.
 [16:39:47]  <ajax> so you ask the server with the xcmisc extension, and it tells you which ones are reusable because they've been destroyed.
 [16:40:08]  <ajax> dberkholz: we just patch out the #ifdefs around that code so i load both the builtin and normal fpes
 [16:40:55]  <ajax> dyek: this necessarily involves walking over the entire XID range of a client, which can take a while.
 [16:41:30]  <dyek^ Thanks for the explanation. Yes, I know that there is a sub-range of XID the client can use issued during the connection.
 [16:41:48]  <dberkholz+ any reason you can think of not to do that upstream?
 [16:42:19]  <dberkholz> i suppose there might be some small startup speed gain from not looking for other fonts
 [16:42:29]  <dyek> I would expect that xlib would be able to build a table to keep track of what it chose to use and what it knows is freed, but I am by no mean knowledgeable about the problem domain.
 [16:43:27]  <ajax> dberkholz: not really.  had some vague dissatisfaction with the patch at the time, never really revisited it.
 [16:43:43]  <krh+ we had that patch from before daniels did it the other way upstream
 [16:44:00]  <ajax> also i'm not convinced the builtin fpe is actually safe to use in combination with anything else, but didn't chase that down all the way
 [16:44:15]  <ajax> really the builtin fpe should be something you just can't remove, but xset fp will let you...
 [16:44:28]  <krh> we should just make no core fonts a valid configuration, really...
 [16:44:36]  <ajax> etc.  seemed like a partial solution so i didn't push it up.
 [16:44:53]  <dberkholz> prevention of the 'no fixed' problem seems like an extremely good thing to me
 [16:45:07]  <krh> hey, what's the status of GL/windows ?
 [16:46:19]  <dberkholz> someone's X server did it "experimentally" a while ago
 [16:46:38]  <krh^ with the code that's in git?
 [16:46:40]  <dberkholz> can't remember if it was the forked-off one or in xserver repo
 [16:46:52]  <dberkholz> alanh might know
 [16:47:03]  <krh> I'd just like to move GL/glx up to just glx
 [16:47:10]  <krh> and forget everything else under GL/
 [16:47:32]  <ajax^ pretty sure the windows ddx is utterly broken atm
 [16:48:21]  <krh^ yeah, that was my assumption... and it really needs to be under glx/ anyway
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[18:18:59]  <svu> daniels, ping?
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[18:39:39]  <dberkholz> jcristau: thanks for picking up those commits in the email to daniels
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[18:40:55]  <jcristau> dberkholz: np
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[18:48:45]  <svu> daniels, whenever you have time, could you please have a look http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483182
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[18:51:43]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: still here?
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[19:58:51]  <ssp> keithp: In https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16042 , does deleting the code seem correct to you?
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[02:15:49]  <mlankhorst> Where's the source repo for intel drivers? /me wants to hack some
 [02:17:59]  <MrCooper> git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel
 [02:18:05]  <mlankhorst> ok
[02:18:55]  <mlankhorst> I'm just wondering why my lovely white box fails to draw properly, first step is getting familiar with source. :-)
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[03:30:21]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:36:52]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: did we ever push geode 2.9.0-1 into hardy-proposed?
 [06:37:58]  <bryce^ I uploaded it but I don't know that pitti has approved it yet
 [06:38:12]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [06:38:19]  <Q-FUNK> that's probably the missing step
 [06:38:23]  <bryce^ do you know who martin pitt is?  you could go ask him to take a look real quick
 [06:38:30]  <Q-FUNK> yes, I know him
 [06:38:37]  <Q-FUNK> I'll ask him after lunch
 [06:38:41]  <bryce> ok cool
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[06:41:15]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: we have a couple of guinea pigs in #ltsp who would be a good test case for both the X core fix and for the updated -geode
 [06:41:37]  <Q-FUNK> if we can get pitti to approve both of them today, we might not even need a session with ogra
 [06:43:31]  <bryce> cool
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[07:56:25]  <whot> daniels, benjsc: can you give me git permissions for libxcb please? thanks
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[10:39:52]  <benjsc> whot: done
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[12:58:43]  <wereHamster> who handles Emulate3Buttons? the mouse driver or the xserver?
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[13:09:29]  <Mercury> wereHamster: Mouse driver.
 [13:11:24]  <wereHamster> I'm asking because the middle button emulation stopped working
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[13:16:00]  <anholt> krh: thank you!
 [13:19:22]  <arekm> wow, xserver buildable without mesa symlinking crap
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[13:23:45]  <krh> anholt: my pleasure
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[14:02:26]  <cjb> anholt: any idea who might fix the libXtst build with make -j?
 [14:02:50]  <ajax> hate you, automake.
 [14:02:53]  <ajax> hate you so hard.
 [14:06:16]  <Ori_B^ it could be worse.
 [14:06:19]  <Ori_B> it could be imake.
 [14:06:38]  <Ori_B> or it could be RIM's internal bastard child of Cygwin, Make, and batchfiles that I'm working with right now.
 [14:07:06]  <ajax> aah batchfiles
 [14:07:18]  <Ori_B> there's something unhly about Visual Studio barfing because it's seeing the wrong Cygwin DLL.
 [14:07:22]  <Ori_B> *unholy
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[14:43:15]  <svu_> daniels: pinnnng
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[14:55:22]  <svu_> how would I make my key work again?
 [14:55:31]  <svu_> it is rejected by cvs :((
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[14:57:26]  <stillunknown> svu_: A lot of ssh keys were revoked recently, check your mailbox if you were one of them.
 [14:57:50]  <svu_^ it seems (according to cvs response) I was - but I did not get anything :(
 [14:57:54]  <svu_> who should I contact?
 [14:58:27]  <stillunknown> noone
 [14:58:29]  <stillunknown> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountMaintenance
 [15:00:08]  <svu_> thanks. Not that I have GPG key ....
 [15:00:31]  <stillunknown> Then you need to get one.
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[15:02:39]  <svu_> It seem so (and I really had DSA key, heh)
 [15:02:44]  <idr> What is the recommended replacement for the cfb stuff?  xf86-video-mga won't build now.
 [15:03:20]  <idr> cjb: I have a fix for that.
 [15:03:29]  <ajax^ deletion.
 [15:03:45]  <idr> cjb: I'll be committing it shortly...I was waiting for my ssh key to be fixed.
 [15:03:47]  <idr> ajax: ?
 [15:03:59]  <ajax^ do you know of anyone actually using the 8+24 overlay mode on that card?
 [15:04:04]  <ajax> it'd be a first
 [15:04:11]  <cjb> idr: Thanks!
 [15:05:19]  <ajax+ http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/rpms/xorg-x11-drv-mga/devel/mga-1.4.7-death-to-cfb.patch?rev=1.1 would do the trick
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[15:06:21]  <tilman> there's a patch in bugzilla, too
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[15:07:35]  <ajax> more seriously, if people really want 8bpp visuals, we should just finish extending Composite to provide a fake one.
 [15:08:26]  <ajax> it's not that far off from working, it wouldn't require hardware support, it'd work correctly with the compmgr...
 [15:08:46]  * svu_ still looking for daniels
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[15:19:20]  <stillunknown> svu_: Why not make a gpg key?
 [15:22:22]  <svu_^ no reason at all. I will probably make one
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[15:31:57]  <idr> ajax: Of course I see your patch *after* I re-create basically the same thing. :(
 [15:32:58]  <idr> Though, I also removed the Overlay option altogether.
 [15:33:53]  * idr sees only hate.
 [15:34:00]  <idr> Can someone explain WTF this means:
 [15:34:01]  <idr> [idr@localhost libXtst]$ git-fetch
 [15:34:01]  <idr> Warning: the RSA host key for 'git.freedesktop.org' differs from the key for the IP address '131.252.210.178'
 [15:34:01]  <idr> Offending key for IP in /home/idr/.ssh/known_hosts:12
 [15:34:01]  <idr> Matching host key in /home/idr/.ssh/known_hosts:22
 [15:34:04]  <idr> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes
 [15:34:06]  <idr> fatal: Couldn't find remote ref refs/heads/xprint_packagertest_20041125
 [15:34:10]  <idr> (The "fatal" from git.)
 [15:34:38]  <idr> Oh foo.  Nevermind.
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[15:45:35]  <idr> cjb: Fix pushed.
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[17:07:51]  <zackr> ajax: i get a major boner every time you remove large chunks of code from the xserver
 [17:10:01]  <stillunknown> Now someone needs to fix all the parts that are needed and we're good to go ;-)
 [17:10:02]  <Battousai> who doesn't?
 [17:11:04]  <ajax> it's my stress relief.
 [17:11:20]  <ajax> i'm about 1/4th the way through the forms for our annual review nonsense
 [17:11:28]  <ajax> something needed deletin'
 [17:12:12]  * airlied hands ajax a goal.. of deletin'.
 [17:15:03]  * spstarr_work hands airlied an r3xx ;)
 [17:15:26]  <spstarr_work> oh? what did ajax purge from X today? :)
 [17:15:46]  <spstarr_work> ajax touch my pads and make then click please ;p
 [17:15:51]  <spstarr_work> them
 [17:15:53]  <ajax^ no.  go away.
 [17:15:56]  <spstarr_work> :)
 [17:16:23]  <stillunknown^ You can try yourself ;-)
 [17:18:07]  <spstarr_work^ I'm just gonna use the reverted touchpad driver w/o the patch
 [17:18:16]  <spstarr_work> a touchpad is for tapping
[17:19:01]  <stillunknown> What has a touchpad got to do with an r3xx?
 [17:19:20]  <spstarr_work> the r3xx issue is something else
 [17:21:47]  <spstarr_work> the patch is anti-accessibility but since it's just a patch i can just build w/o it and have tapping working again so my thinkpad button won't break (it's already sunk lower than the right button)
 [17:22:19]  <stillunknown> make it an option ;-)
 [17:22:42]  <spstarr_work> it is
 [17:23:14]  <spstarr_work> now, assuming the driver still works on VT switch, suspend to ram/unthaw from disk otherwise the patch doesnt change that
 [17:25:05]  <spstarr_work> judging by the code.. no
 [17:25:18]  <spstarr_work> so the patch in question doesnt help, and adding the Xorg options is fine with me
 [17:25:45]  <spstarr_work> the driver itself is - broken -
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[18:36:56]  <dberkholz> ajax: i know people at work here who need 8bpp visuals for old proprietary apps that accompany million-dollar instruments
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[19:40:28]  <airlied> alanc: ping
 [19:40:39]  <alanc^ pong
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[19:41:34]  <airlied> alanc: pm.
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[20:25:12]  <dberkholz> hm, i wonder if i can figure out a way to get mesa out of dmx.
 [20:25:20]  <dberkholz> that's the only reason it's still in our packaging
 [20:26:14]  <airlied> it must only need some headers I would assume or some glx stuff
 [20:26:18]  <airlied> but maybe not.
 [20:26:22]  <dberkholz> it's got that weird glxproxy thing
 [20:26:56]  <airlied> should try removing the mesa include line and see what breaks
 [20:30:22]  * dberkholz tries some grep action
 [20:36:34]  <dberkholz> glxProxy/glxcontext.h and glxProxy/glxscreens.h want GL/internal/glcore.h
 [20:37:09]  <airlied> does mesa install that now?
 [20:37:22]  <airlied> or it used to and we stopped?
 [20:37:59]  <dberkholz> i've got it from glproto
 [20:38:04]  <dberkholz> not current git, though
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[20:38:45]  <dberkholz> looks like git still installs it
 [20:39:06]  <dberkholz> hm, that might be it.
 [20:39:42]  <airlied> it might just include glproto which would be nice.
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[03:26:41]  <tjaalton> what happened to gitweb? 403 forbidden
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[03:33:14]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:02:04]  <MacSlow> krh, hi there
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[05:53:27]  <tjaalton> ajax: you disabled input-hotplug for keyboards in F9, what issues did you bump into?
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[06:56:58]  <jcristau> ajax: libpciaccess configure.ac needs a version bump, it still says 0.10.1
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[09:25:58]  <dvandyk> ok, gone to the garden
 [09:32:30]  <krh> MacSlow: heya
 [09:36:03]  <MacSlow^ hey Krisitan
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[13:15:09]  <jbarnes> cworth: ping
 [13:16:35]  <cworth^ On my way out the door now. Back later.
 [13:16:39]  <jbarnes> ok
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[14:25:31]  <jcristau> ajax: your elographics tarball doesn't seem to have 0133d754c10341ca5b572beeee72488b8f5ae8a8
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[14:39:53]  <Linuxhippy> hi
 [14:40:24]  <Linuxhippy> any idea how I could efficiently implement blending with extra-alpha using XRender?
 [14:41:24]  <Linuxhippy> with the operators supporting a mask I could fill the mask with the extra-alpha value
 [14:41:43]  <Linuxhippy> but e.g. the trap methods don't support that, because they use the mask already for the geometry rendering
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[15:06:25]  <Linuxhippy> just did some searching, what I would need is something like GL_BLEND with XRender
 [15:07:42]  <Linuxhippy> whats the alpha_map in picture-attributes for?
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[15:19:06]  <ajax> over two months between RCs
 [15:19:09]  <ajax> i am completely lame.
 [15:20:13]  <DrNick> "thorough"
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[16:02:33]  <OgreBoy> "giving time for nVidia to release a driver" ?
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[17:47:21]  <jbarnes> krh: so what part of http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/git needs updating in the brave new world of no mesa symlinking?
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[17:51:10]  <cworth> jbarnes: I'm back now, by the way.
 [17:51:24]  <jbarnes^ what's the status of the batchbuffer branch?
 [17:51:34]  <jbarnes> how close are we to merging it into master?
 [17:52:52]  <cworth^ I'm afraid I haven't been in touch with the branch lately.
 [17:53:10]  <cworth> anholt probably knows much better than I do what still needs to be done at this point
 [17:53:13]  <jbarnes> sigh, and anholt's off writing a memory manager
 [17:53:24]  <jbarnes> I know he merged a bunch of stuff over
 [17:53:28]  <cworth^ Yeah, well...
 [17:53:45]  <cworth> Yes, I saw he merged pretty much everything I'd written, for example.
 [17:53:54]  <jbarnes> but I don't think he did it straight from the branch, didn't he do a bunch of cleanups?
 [17:53:55]  <cworth^ So I don't know what might still be missing.
 [17:54:22]  <cworth> Yes, he cleaned it up quite a bit in the process. That's why I have no idea what he got or didn't get.
 [17:54:36]  <cworth> But I do hope to be able to get back to looking at this driver stuff soon...
 [17:54:41]  <jbarnes> cool
 [17:54:52]  <jbarnes> I'm curious because the kernel modesetting stuff depends on it
 [17:55:05]  <jbarnes> but apparently we're in the same boat wrt the status of the branch :)
 [17:55:44]  <tjaalton> ttm & gem showdown :)
 [17:56:13]  <Q-FUNK> oh dear...
 [17:56:45]  <krh> jbarnes: on my way out, but it looks like we just need to remove the --with-mesa-source= part
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[17:57:02]  <jbarnes> krh: ok, and I guess there are new deps on the mesa build, figuring those out now
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[20:33:34]  <whot> jcristau: ping
 [20:33:47]  <jcristau^ pong
 [20:34:48]  <whot^ the evdev patch stops the build on my box
 [20:35:19]  <whot> error: xkbstr.h: No such file or directory
 [20:35:31]  <whot> not sure if that's supposed to be installed or what I need to point the driver there
 [20:35:53]  <jcristau^ doesn't the server install that?
 [20:36:18]  <jcristau> i have xkbstr.h in /usr/include/xorg/
 [20:39:17]  <whot> hmm. yeah, looks like it should...
 [20:43:49]  <whot> looks like my box doesn't like to install any of the extra_DIST stuff
 [20:45:15]  <jcristau> i only tested against 1.4 though
 [20:47:01]  <whot> well, xkbstr.h is part of EXTRA_DIST, but it doesn't get installed with a normal make install.
 [20:47:14]  <whot> (autotools help appreciated at this point)
 [20:47:48]  <jcristau> extra_dist stuff isn't supposed to get installed
 [20:48:26]  <jcristau> and, i'm wrong, i don't have xkbstr.h in /usr/include/xorg, just xkbsrv.h
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[20:51:19]  <jcristau> whot: as xkbsrv.h includes xkbstr.h in master/1.5, i guess xkbstr.h should be in sdk_HEADERS too
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[20:53:06]  <whot> I agree
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[03:26:10]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:40:13]  <Q-FUNK> bryce_: pitti just uploaded geode 2.9.0-1ubuntu1
 [03:43:47]  <bryce_^ excellent
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[05:17:39]  <tgillespie> hi, I heard that theres a function in xorg that will trigger a function of mine after a certain time has passed, something like idleTimeTrigger(time, myFunc). Does this actually exist?
 [05:24:00]  <saschahl^ you mean TimerSet?
 [05:24:23]  <tgillespie> saschahl I'm not sure, someone just mentioned it on a mailing list
 [05:25:00]  <tgillespie> saschahl i want a function that i pass a function pointer and time to, and it will call my function when the idle time that i specified is reached
 [05:25:18]  <saschahl> xorg/os.h: TimerSet(timer, flags, millis, func, arg)
 [05:25:33]  <saschahl> serverside, not clientside
 [05:25:55]  <tgillespie> saschahl ill have a look, is this just a timer though? or is it a timer conditional on idle time?
 [05:26:24]  <saschahl> it's a timer, no conditional on idle timer
 [05:28:28]  <tgillespie> saschahl ah right, i can get a timer already. I'll explain the situation. I'm building a powersaving app, and it dims the screen after the session is idle for a certain amount of time. I'm currently using a timer to poll the idle time from xorg, but polling seems a waste of power when I'm trying to build a powersaving app
 [05:30:06]  <jcristau> client-side, there's the sync extension
 [05:30:17]  <tgillespie> jcristau 1 min ill google it
 [05:30:37]  <jcristau> and the "IDLETIME" timer
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[05:34:03]  <tgillespie> jcristau is the idletime timer in the sync extension?
 [05:34:17]  <jcristau> yes
 [05:34:48]  <tgillespie> jcristau I'm still trying to find any info.... all i get on google is a load of forum posts about "no sync extension"
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[06:48:25]  <drindt> hello there, iam owner of a "ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Xpress 1250" and my beloved linux distribution comes with the radeon driver which isnt supporting the 1250 model but the 1200 so my question is if it helps when iam modify the card guessing code so that it accept the 1250 too and send the patch to your mailinglist or ist that a bad idea? how can i support the driver support? thanks
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[07:16:04]  <mraudsepp> drindt: can you check if perhaps the git version of the radeon driver already has support (necessary PCI ID as I understand it?)
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[07:45:15]  <rvalles> drindt: you should try latest release. If the device is supported fine there, you should then rant in your distro's bug database for them to provide upgraded drivers.
 [07:45:39]  <rvalles> otherwise, try git/svn/whatevertheyuse to see if there's at least support there.
 [07:47:02]  <rvalles> btw, I curse Ubuntu for being generally obsolete in terms of hardware support. Their policy with drivers is just stupid; they'd be better off just providing the latest driver releases as they are released instead of living in permanent obsolence.
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[07:47:39]  * rvalles has to support many people using that and is quite annoyed by that.
 [07:49:14]  <daniels^ welcome to every single distribution ever.
 [07:50:06]  <daniels> funnily enough, people are loathe to trade known bugs for unknown bugs in already-released distributions.  admittedly, ubuntu are worse than the rest in terms of never having bothered having anyone work on x development, which would help with that, but still.
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[07:56:44]  <drindt> rvalles: ok all what i have to do is check out the latest version from your git?
 [08:01:24]  <rvalles> daniels: there are distros and distros
 [08:02:49]  <drindt^ yes you're right.
 [08:02:51]  <rvalles^ there are releases of stuff, and there is the git. Check latest release first; you can complain to your distro if that one works and the one they provide doesn't. If you're not lucky there, you might be lucky with git/svn/whatever, but you can't ask distros till next release then.
 [08:03:18]  <drindt> yeah thanks
[08:03:45]  <mraudsepp> well, you can probably ask, but many distros insist on backporting that particular fix or improvement to the version they have as a patch on top
 [08:03:50]  <daniels> rvalles: what are you saying?
 [08:03:51]  <rvalles^ fedora, gentoo, debian unstable are quite up to date, ubuntu would be the extreme of being late in terms of drivers.
 [08:04:05]  <daniels^ wtf? you can't compare debian unstable and ubuntu release.  that's pointless.
 [08:04:21]  <rvalles^ ok, then look at fedora
[08:04:27]  <mraudsepp> I guess you could compare debian unstable with ubuntu development cycle tree
 [08:05:00]  <daniels> yes, but if you look at debian release vs. fedora release vs. ubuntu release vs. something like opensuse release or whatever, ubuntu isn't doing too badly.
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[08:05:18]  <daniels> as i said, they could be better and definitely should be getting people to do some x development, but it's not exactly fair to single them out.
 [08:05:27]  <rvalles^ even when they are drop-in upgrades, ubuntu does only rarely if ever upgrade any driver outside release-to-release
 [08:05:40]  <rvalles> and they usually release with already obsolete drivers.
 [08:06:03]  <tjaalton^ well, ubuntu has the latest -ati
 [08:06:22]  <daniels> re. the first point, your contention is that they should update existing releases, or their development tree?
 [08:06:54]  <rvalles> the problem is more about existing releases
 [08:07:18]  <rvalles> tho when they release with obsolete drivers, there must be some deeper problem
 [08:07:35]  <drindt^ fedora is up to date? oh not
 [08:07:43]  <drindt> its not :)
 [08:09:46]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: ok, it seems that we have geode in proposed now :)
 [08:09:58]  <Q-FUNK> we just need to find ogra and test this
 [08:10:00]  <rvalles> current-1 (before current was released) having ancient privative nvidia drivers, and current release having way too old alsa have been a major PITA for me to mantain my family's systems.
 [08:11:10]  <rvalles> they'll probably be moved to opensuse or fedora in the future. I'll hold till I see how well autumn's ubuntu release does with their hardware, tho
 [08:11:19]  * rvalles cuts the offtopic and goes back to work.
 [08:11:50]  <tjaalton^ looking at the current "stable" nvidia blob, you can clearly see that it's basically a hopeless task to pick a good version for a release..
 [08:11:56]  <daniels> re. the nvidia drivers, maybe you could try not running proprietary drivers? being as they're impossible to support and all.  (and i definitely don't see fedora shipping with nvidia's proprietary drivers.)
 [08:12:36]  <tjaalton> rvalles: so if you like bleeding edge blobs, use envyng
 [08:13:18]  <mraudsepp> they bleed in all cases, not just on the edges
 [08:13:28]  <tjaalton> heh .)
 [08:13:29]  <tjaalton> :)
 [08:13:35]  <mraudsepp> all places*
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[08:42:33]  <drindt> rvalles: please grant me a last question, which version is the 1250 supporting?
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[08:51:18]  <vuntz> has anybody heard of a bug looking like a stuck modifier because of the use of xkb layouts?
 [08:53:39]  <tjaalton^ should be fixed by now
 [08:54:02]  <vuntz^ in git?
 [08:56:04]  <tjaalton^ yes, and in ubuntu 8.04
 [08:56:07]  <tjaalton> for example..
 [08:56:21]  <tjaalton> fixed in upcoming 1.4.1 and 1.5
 [08:56:35]  <tjaalton> _if_ we are talking about the same bug :)
 [08:57:04]  <vuntz^ in opensuse, we have 1.4.0.90 and I can easily reproduce the bug. Not sure how old 1.4.0.90 is, though :-)
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[08:57:58]  <vuntz> tjaalton: seb128 told me about a bug in ubuntu which was about a stuck modified when you do alt+tab, but I don't think it's the same one
 [08:58:32]  <vuntz> the one I see is a stuck modifier on login, only when you use autologin in gdm/kdm
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[09:01:23]  <tjaalton> vuntz: it's bug 194214 in launchpad, fd.o 13511
 [09:04:05]  <vuntz> yeah, different one, I'd say
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[09:06:02]  <tjaalton> I wonder if some of the dupes of that bugs are misduped, and still valid
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[12:00:39]  <jasonlife> what is the xorg.conf option to disable input device hotplugging?
 [12:00:59]  <jasonlife> or auto detecting..
 [12:02:01]  <tjaalton> there is none
 [12:02:08]  <tjaalton> remove the fdi file
 [12:02:46]  <saschahl> there is one
 [12:03:04]  <saschahl> Option "AutoAddDevices" "false" in Section ServerFlags
 [12:03:09]  <tjaalton> oh, cool :)
 [12:03:23]  <jasonlife> saschalhl: thanks
 [12:03:28]  <tjaalton> just not documented
 [12:03:32]  <saschahl> np
 [12:03:37]  <jasonlife> I was looking for it.. I forgot that..
 [12:03:50]  <saschahl> tjaalton: true. But I think it's in git...
 [12:04:12]  <tjaalton^ that's enough then ;)
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[12:08:36]  <daniels>        Option "AutoAddDevices" "boolean"
 [12:08:36]  <daniels>               If this option is disabled, then no devices will be added from HAL events.  Enabled by default.
 [12:08:39]  <daniels>        Option "AutoEnableDevices" "boolean"
 [12:08:41]  <daniels>               If  this  option is disabled, then the devices will be added (and the DevicePresenceNotify event sent), but
 [12:08:44]  <daniels>               not enabled, thus leaving policy up to the client.  Enabled by default.
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[12:15:46]  <tjaalton> daniels: maybe pull the commit in 1.4-branch too :)
 [12:19:04]  <tjaalton> that would be 59df687835c68eda147de4
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[12:37:18]  <jasonlife> daniels: thanks for the explain
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[12:58:28]  <MenTaLguY> hello
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[13:26:29]  <jbarnes> aaronp: nice troll at http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=113645
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[14:02:18]  <krh> huh, designed for incompatibility
 [14:04:29]  <stillunknown^ There is some truth in that.
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[14:35:41]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: uh no there's not
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[15:59:18]  <libv> jbarnes: dream on.
 [15:59:33]  <jbarnes^ ?
 [16:00:20]  <libv> what "?"?
 [16:00:47]  <jbarnes^ "dream on" about what?
 [16:01:06]  <libv> the thing you started yourself with aaronp
 [16:01:51]  <jbarnes> I still don't know what you're talking about...
 [16:02:05]  <libv> 20:35 < jbarnes> stillunknown: uh no there's not
 [16:02:20]  <jbarnes> again, what's your point?
 [16:02:30]  <jbarnes> do you think the modesetting stuff *was* designed to keep nvidia out?
 [16:02:49]  <libv> if you really think you're so perfect and fantastic and all encompassing, then dream on
 [16:03:16]  <jbarnes> , wtf are you talking about?
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[16:03:45]  <libv> *sniggers and wanders off again and does something useful*
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[16:05:17]  <stillunknown> jbarnes: It was not designed to keep nvidia out, but neither was it designed with enough flexibility in mind.
 [16:05:36]  <jbarnes^ that somehow implies that the design is set in stone, it's very much not
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[16:05:44]  <jbarnes> if we need more flexibility to handle new stuff, we'll add it
 [16:06:19]  <jbarnes> there's no conspiracy here, even though libv likes to imagine them around every corner :)
 [16:06:37]  <libv> ?
 [16:06:44]  <libv> jbarnes: that so helps the situation
 [16:07:02]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: so if you have specific suggestions to add "enough flexibility" I'd like to hear them
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[16:07:12]  <MenTaLguY> all I've seen so far is NIH syndrome and a lack of professionalism on the Nvidia side
 [16:07:32]  <libv^ oh, and on the intel side there is...
 [16:08:19]  <jbarnes^ yeah sorry, I just get annoyed when people make vague claims and refuse to back them up with specifics
 [16:08:29]  <stillunknown> The whole kernel interface should have been as minimal as possible, like a wrapper.
 [16:08:44]  <jbarnes^ how is it not?  it only adds like 3 ioctls
 [16:08:45]  <MenTaLguY> well, the intel folks seem to be willing to work with the kernel developers
 [16:08:52]  <libv> jbarnes: oh, there are some specifics, called radeonhd and unichrome and whatnot
 [16:09:00]  <MenTaLguY> Nvidia seems to want to maintain their own silo
 [16:09:22]  <stillunknown> jbarnes: There is also a whole randr-1.2 clone in modesetting-101.
 [16:09:25]  <jbarnes> libv: so you're saying kernel mode setting should have been designed more like radeonhd or unichrome?
 [16:09:37]  <jbarnes> that's fine, can you post where you think the interfaces are lacking in particular?
 [16:09:46]  <jbarnes> we're still looking to make some changes, so the sooner the better
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[16:10:11]  * stillunknown can only do that once he actually has the opertunity to implement a driver.
 [16:10:13]  <jbarnes^ only the core<->driver interface is randr-esque, the userland api is simpler
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[16:10:35]  <stillunknown> That's why i've kept mostly quiet.
 [16:10:37]  <jbarnes> I assume libv is talking about the kernel internals
 [16:10:41]  <stillunknown> Yes.
 [16:10:44]  <stillunknown> I am too.
 [16:11:22]  <jbarnes> since the userland api is fairly simple though, someone could implement a totally separate module exporting the same interface
 [16:11:33]  <jbarnes> so the current core stuff is largely irrelevant to nvidia I'd think
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[16:11:44]  <jbarnes> since they probably won't want to re-use our code
 [16:12:12]  <jbarnes> anyway, I definitely agree that the internals could use a lot of work
 [16:12:28]  <stillunknown> I realize that, and should the need arise i'll also reimplement it.
 [16:12:29]  <libv> i haven't even looked at kernel modesetting, i just know that it is heavily set in randr1.2 mindset, and i spend way too much time working on radeonhd bugs which, quite often end up being some awkwardness in randr1.2 server side code that isn't reasonably hacked around yet
 [16:12:31]  <jbarnes> we made some changes when we ported stuff over, but we could still rip more out
 [16:12:49]  <ajax> "i haven't looked, i just know"
 [16:12:50]  <ajax> nice.
 [16:12:57]  <jay> alanc: whats up with irc
 [16:13:06]  <jbarnes> libv: yeah there have been changes there on the kernel side, but things are still somewhat messy; personally I'd like to see the driver in more control of things as opposed to the core
 [16:13:13]  <libv> ajax: oh, yeah, the driver dev and age old modesetter in you says thatm right
 [16:13:44]  <ajax> i'm sorry, did you have something constructive to contribute, or were you more interested in bitching today?
 [16:13:49]  <ajax> if it's the latter i can go back to work.
 [16:14:32]  <libv> go back to work then. i'm doing the constructive stuff somewhere else anyway, lord knows my day so far wasn't constructive at all yet
 [16:14:51]  <alanc> jay: you mean Sun internal irc?   working fine if you use irc.central since irc.sfbay is down for the power work
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[16:16:44]  <stillunknown> jbarnes: Which file(s) contains this interface?
 [16:16:57]  <jbarnes^ the main stuff is in drm_crtc.h
 [16:17:05]  <jbarnes> and drm_crtc.c
 [16:17:19]  <jbarnes> I've tried to document things, but a fuller writeup is still on my todo list
 [16:18:05]  <stillunknown> Does this interface rely on ttm, or just drm?
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[16:18:55]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: mode setting needs memory management of some sort
 [16:19:03]  <jbarnes> right now it uses ttm to do buffer object allocation
 [16:19:27]  <stillunknown^ But could i do without, and still keep the userspace interface?
 [16:20:08]  <jbarnes> with the current apis, you need some sort of memory management api exposed to userspace too
 [16:20:31]  <jbarnes> since for example to activate a new output, first you allocate an appropriately sized scanout buffer, then call back in to bind it to the output/crtc you've configured
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[16:20:51]  <stillunknown> Yes, but i'm not passing around ttm specific structs?
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[16:21:06]  <jbarnes> that allows for say a suitably privileged process to fade between two graphical applications
 [16:21:22]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: right now you are, in the form of drm buffer objects
 [16:22:48]  <stillunknown> I guess i could make my own interface as well.
 [16:23:02]  <jbarnes> yep :)
 [16:23:04]  <fcarrijo> #irssi
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[16:39:45]  <svu> daniels, ping
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[17:32:51]  <airlied> we only pass handles across to userspace.
 [17:33:06]  <airlied> and the userspace modesetting interface has no BOs in it.
 [17:33:19]  <airlied> so it would just be a matter of fixing it in the kernel.
 [17:33:35]  <airlied> unlike X you can fix the kernel core at the same time as you fix the drivers.
 [17:34:53]  <airlied> could the crack heads please join together and write a coherent message about what is wrong with the interfaces or GTFO
 [17:36:38]  <airlied> stillunknown: its been explained to you that you can redo the kernel internals quite easily
 [17:37:16]  <airlied> you still seem intent on moaning about it, if you don't send patches it isn't going to happen.
 [17:37:27]  <airlied> as you haven't described the problem you think you want solved.
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[18:09:03]  <jbarnes> airlied: yeah, it's bullshit.  all the development has occurred in the open, so to say it was "designed to be incompatible" with something is lies
 [18:09:27]  <jbarnes> and if people want to whine about the interfaces, fine, but it's much more useful to provide constructive feedback on the mailing lists about them
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[18:15:42]  <airlied> anyway nvidia already do kernel-side modesetting.
 [18:15:56]  <airlied> so they can write their own modepicking code which sets the mode on module load.
 [18:16:17]  <airlied> all I'm saying is they can't re-use the kernel GPL code to do it.
 [18:22:19]  <stillunknown^ Yes, i realize it's better to do my own instead of moaning about it.
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[18:24:41]  <airlied> stillunknown: you don't need to d your own, you need to contribute patches to the one we have.
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[18:25:48]  <stillunknown> airlied: Well, that would at least require waiting for the memory manager stuff to settle down.
 [18:26:20]  <airlied^ well also for nouveau to decide what sort of memory manager it needs.
 [18:26:31]  <stillunknown> If all i intend to use is some thin interface, then i might as well make it myself.
 [18:26:47]  <airlied> I will probably just make all ioctls go to a table you can hook out.
 [18:26:56]  <airlied> to be honest you can odo it now.
 [18:27:23]  <airlied> well actually you would need to make a copy of the drm ioctl table per drm device
 [18:27:35]  <airlied> and then use that from that point on, and have the driver re-write it.
 [18:28:06]  <airlied> the other option is to make a table of functions that getcalled after we validate all the args etc.
 [18:28:15]  <stillunknown> If the ioctl's require ttm, then that's pretty much useless for me now.
 [18:28:23]  <airlied^ they don't.
 [18:28:31]  <airlied> at least not the interfaces
 [18:29:04]  <airlied> so hooking them out would be fine.
 [18:29:59]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: you just need a memory handle
 [18:39:59]  <stillunknown> airlied: I wonder, what happens if i start passing non-standard data in the data pointers, does it even make sense to use the same ioctl's?
 [18:48:56]  <stillunknown> Is it normal in the kernel world that ioctl's contain arbitrary data, dependent on the context in which it is used?
 [18:49:12]  <stillunknown> (i would find that very confusing)
 [18:49:22]  <stillunknown> @airlied
 [18:50:23]  <MenTaLguY> unfortunately that is the case historically
 [18:50:31]  <MenTaLguY> not just with Linux either :/
 [18:51:03]  <stillunknown> I mean, what's the point of reusing a dozen ioctl's if you end up using them very differently.
 [18:51:54]  <MenTaLguY> ah, I see
 [18:52:06]  <MenTaLguY> yeah, it seems like multiplexing over a single ioctl would make more sense
 [18:52:13]  <MenTaLguY> then you aren't limited to N ioctls either
 [18:52:22]  <MenTaLguY> to use for different purposes
 [18:52:25]  <stillunknown> I mean, why not make my own ioctl's?
 [18:52:37]  <stillunknown> At least that would make it obvious they are not the same thing.
 [18:52:45]  <MenTaLguY> the main issue is allocating ioctl numbers, I guess
 [18:53:20]  <stillunknown> Is there a serious limit on those?
 [18:55:23]  <MenTaLguY> well, I think allocating new ioctls is discouraged generally
 [18:55:33]  <MenTaLguY> in favor of fs-based interfaces
 [18:55:44]  <MenTaLguY> not that such an interface is necessarily appropriate in this specific case
 [18:56:11]  <MenTaLguY> I've been out of the kernel world for long enough (I was never really that active) that I don't honestly know what the story today is
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[18:58:57]  <airlied> stillunknown: so you want to expose a nouveau specific complete modesetting arch?
 [19:00:23]  <stillunknown> I wouldn't mind sharing user interfaces, but the kernel <-> userinterface is something i'd like control over.
 [19:00:32]  <stillunknown> (btw, this is my personal opinion)
 [19:00:34]  <ds> remind me again why we want to go back to the bad old days of every device having a different interface?
 [19:03:47]  <stillunknown> I really can't judge what other people need, and if i make a driver, i'd like it to be nice, which means a structure suited to the hw.
 [19:04:56]  <airlied^ a driver cannot just exist in independence.
 [19:05:05]  <airlied> you need to interface it to something.
 [19:05:28]  <airlied> the driver internals are not dictated by the interface.
 [19:05:30]  <stillunknown> Yes, but that only needs to be a user interface.
 [19:05:45]  <airlied> if they are then clearly you need to change the internals.
 [19:06:12]  <stillunknown> Time will tell.
 [19:06:39]  <stillunknown> I'm also wondering if putting everything behind an ioctl is such a good idea.
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[19:07:36]  <airlied> stillunknown: where else you putting it?
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[19:08:21]  <stillunknown> Well, the card i have in my computer has a cmd buffer for most modesetting.
 [19:08:53]  <airlied^ and you want to expose that internal detail to the user?
 [19:09:11]  <stillunknown> If a driver is a user, then yes.
 [19:09:19]  <airlied> the driver is in the kernel.
 [19:10:45]  <stillunknown> The kernel is not everything.
 [19:11:08]  <airlied^ so how are you going to do provide fbdev?
 [19:11:11]  <stillunknown> The fb driver would obviously need to be made, but that's not impossible.
 [19:11:28]  <airlied> so you have the code in the kernel already..
 [19:11:39]  <stillunknown> Yes, but not behind an ioctl.
 [19:12:02]  <airlied> you do realise fbdev exposes ioctls to set modes..
 [19:12:22]  <stillunknown> Yes, but that i cannot change.
 [19:12:34]  <stillunknown> I do however control the X <-> kernel interface.
 [19:12:49]  <airlied^ this isn't primarily and X<-> kernel interface
 [19:13:10]  <airlied> we want to get other users.
 [19:13:30]  <stillunknown> like?
 [19:13:41]  <airlied> and I'd rather they didn't need to completely understand the card internals because you can't be bothered abstracting them.
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[19:13:55]  <airlied> stillunknown: EGL, directfb etc.
 [19:14:21]  <airlied> so lets say you can consider the DRM modesetting interface like fbdev.
 [19:14:31]  <airlied> you need to provide at least this much to users.
 [19:14:45]  <airlied> and if you want to add other paths via driver-specific ioctls then that might work.
 [19:15:11]  <airlied> though it does rather rely on everyone at least agreeing on some standard for a memory handle.
 [19:15:30]  <jbarnes> also things like hotplug notification and output properties should be standard
 [19:15:32]  <airlied> maybe it is impossible and we should just put the drivers in userspace
 [19:15:36]  <airlied> oh wait.
 [19:15:58]  <stillunknown> The only useful kernel driver is a fb driver imo.
 [19:16:15]  <stillunknown> The rest is dictated by what works best where.
 [19:17:10]  <airlied^ the idea is to try and keep the userspace code generic for modesetting.
 [19:17:27]  <airlied> though yes the whole memory manager changes make that a little harder.
 [19:17:40]  <jbarnes+ so you'd like to do away with OpenGL and just program your specific device?
 [19:18:07]  <stillunknown> No, but modesetting is different, few things need to do it.
 [19:18:50]  <stillunknown> The only reason i would like a kernel driver is interrupt handling and a fb driver that cooperates.
 [19:19:57]  <airlied^ I don't understand why you can't put this in the kernel.
 [19:20:05]  <airlied> at all, what is X going to do expose that the kernel can't?
 [19:20:32]  <stillunknown> It's not about what can and cannot be done, it's about what is the most elegant solution.
 [19:20:40]  <airlied^ its not about elegance..
 [19:20:59]  <airlied> because clearly having large amounts of code duplicated between fbdev and userspace isn't elegant.
 [19:21:21]  <stillunknown> It's not that much code.
 [19:21:37]  <airlied> not seeing any clear usefulness..
 [19:22:02]  <airlied> you clearly need to find specific problems I think rather than handwavy stuff.
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[19:22:56]  <airlied> currently we have randr1.2 <-> Xserver <-> card>
 [19:23:14]  <airlied> there is no other interface to expose.
 [19:23:32]  <airlied> randr1.2 <-> X <-> kernel <-> card
 [19:23:40]  <airlied> I'd rather the kernel interface was useful without X
 [19:23:43]  <stillunknown^ I do this for fun, so i'm not going to make something i don't like.
 [19:23:49]  <airlied> and fbdev isn't felxible enough to be useful.
 [19:24:14]  <airlied> stillunknown: I just don't see what you think is elegant, it sounds like you just want to re-create the nvidia binary.
 [19:25:06]  <stillunknown> Not quite, but i do think that those people aren't crazy.
 [19:25:45]  <airlied^ having hw specific solutions is easy when you don't have to interact with other people.
 [19:25:55]  <airlied> it doesn't mean its in any way the correct solution.
 [19:26:20]  <airlied> isn't the nvidia modeset cmd buffer just a sw method?
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[19:26:37]  <stillunknown> airlied: No, it's real and the only way i know of.
 [19:26:46]  <stillunknown> (older hw had it as sw method)
 [19:26:52]  <airlied^ so nv uses it?
 [19:27:22]  <stillunknown> Yes, it uses the mmio entry point though.
 [19:28:08]  <airlied> so I ask again what flexibility does this give you putting this in X?
 [19:28:28]  <airlied> what are the cost/benefits of doing all of this again in users[ace?
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[19:29:03]  <anholt> airlied: it'll be leet, and old-school.
 [19:29:22]  <airlied^ you too can live in the XFree86 days..
 [19:29:39]  <anholt> hot times
 [19:29:46]  <jbarnes> I think we should bring back the pci layer
 [19:29:51]  <jbarnes> I was thinking a usb layer might be good too
 [19:29:52]  <airlied^ PowerMAXOS.
 [19:29:57]  <jbarnes> YES
 [19:30:19]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: but seriously, if you have real criticisms, write down your design and send it to dri-devel@
 [19:30:35]  <jbarnes> we want things to work with lots of devices
 [19:30:57]  <airlied> stillunknown: just remember one of the goals is to remove modesetting from X.
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[19:31:14]  <airlied> any solution that requries large amounts of modesetting code in X is going to not be majorly suitable.
 [19:31:35]  * airlied wonders if people are just afraid of putting things in the kernel because it might get reviewed badly or something.
 [19:32:13]  <stillunknown^ The modesetting code will be largely independent of X (the stuff i write at least), so should a major change happen, then it won't be much of a problem.
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[19:33:14]  <jbarnes> stillunknown: so you're writing stuff for nouveau?
 [19:34:00]  <stillunknown> yes
 [19:34:44]  * airlied has to go paint a shed. any color suggestions?
 [19:34:58]  <airlied> actally the truth is I have to go paint the stairs.
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[19:37:22]  <alanc> airlied: a tye-dye pattern of course, so you can be sure to include a little of everyone's favorite color
 [19:40:03]  <daniels> svu_: email me?
 [19:40:39]  <svu^ ugh, I am lucky to see you here:)
 [19:42:21]  <daniels> libv: dude, six months or more ago, we had the same discussion on irc.  you said randr-1.2 was shit.  people asked why? you said that you hadn't looked yet, and would get back to them with specifics.  here we are, months later, and you still haven't come up with anything useful.  honestly, stop acting like a fucking child.
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[19:42:37]  <svu> daniels, just wanted a little consultation. The same xkb code (in gnome-settings-daemon) behaves differently depending on whether it is launched from startx of from gdm. Actually in the former case it is very odd - it looks like it configures xkb but actually it is not
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[19:45:23]  <daniels> svu: egh.
 [19:45:49]  <daniels> i'm just going to bed now, but could you please file a bug?
 [19:46:35]  <svu^ there is a bug in gnome bugzilla. if I send you the link - would you have a look? I am not sure EXACTLY it is xorg's fault - but would like to know your opinion. So I'll send you the link, ok?
 [19:46:48]  <libv> daniels: oh right back at ya: try this again when 1.4.1 actually happened.
 [19:48:56]  <daniels^ congratulations on disproving my assertion that you're acting like a child.
 [19:49:10]  <daniels> svu: yeah, that'd be great, thanks
 [19:49:38]  <libv^ you're too bloody busy on other crap, well, so am i.
 [19:50:17]  <daniels^ yes, but i don't feel the need to run around going HEY AJAX 1.5.0 IS FOR SHIT U R UNCOMPETENT.
 [19:50:51]  <daniels> if you want to have a technical discussion, bring technical facts to the table.  if you don't want to have technical discussions, i can recommend many other fora than #xorg-devel.
 [19:54:19]  <svu^ sent
 [20:01:14]  <airlied> libv: never too busy to bad mouth always too busy too help?
 [20:02:01]  <daniels> ~
 [20:02:36]  <daniels> ;3~lear
 [20:03:25]  * airlied still awaits a list of issues with randr-1.2 promised many years ago.
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[22:26:53]  <zythmer> Hi.  I'm looking for some input on if this is a good idea and how to proceed if so.  I've seen some support in X for color blindness by way of gnome/libcolorblind but that's WM/application specific.  Would it make sense to have X handle it globally?  Ideally, I'd like to do something like xrandr's interface:  'xcolorblind <my color profile> on'.
 [22:29:57]  <ds^ no.  the appropriate place for something like that is probably a compositing manager plugin
 [22:35:09]  <zythmer^ ok, thanks.
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[23:25:05]  <cjb> zythmer: how does that work?
 [23:25:38]  <cjb> (I mean, what is libcolorblind?)
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[23:40:01]  <zythmer> cjb: It looks like this is the API: you pass in an RGB and filter type and it returns what the color should be.  It's a tiny public domain library.
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[23:54:19]  <zythmer> gnome-orca uses libcolorblind but it only supports certain applications.  Compiz fusion has a color profiler so that sounds like what ds mentioned.  However, I don't use compiz.
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[01:33:26]  <coopht> Hello
 [01:33:48]  <coopht> I need help in X.org 1.4.99.902 compilation
 [01:34:06]  <coopht> it fails with message:
 [01:34:06]  <coopht> dri2.c:44:35: error: GL/internal/dri_sarea.h: No such file or directory
 [01:34:37]  <coopht> where can I find this file?
 [01:38:47]  <eboettcher> dri2proto
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[01:43:56]  <coopht> no, it is not a dri2 proto file
 [01:45:53]  <eboettcher> oh, that's from drm
 [01:45:55]  <eboettcher> sorry :)
 [01:46:11]  <coopht> drm proto?
 [01:46:15]  <eboettcher> no
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[01:46:54]  <eboettcher> do you have the mesa sources and libdrm installed?
 [01:47:37]  <coopht> yes
 [01:47:48]  <coopht> I have mesa sources and libdrm installed
 [01:48:04]  <coopht> Which version of mesa I need?
 [01:48:14]  <coopht> I have 7.0.3 installed
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[11:46:30]  <tormod> hi, xkbsrv.h anyone? I try to build evdev from git and xkbsrv.h is missing. Where does it live?
 [11:46:42]  <daniels> in xserver
 [11:46:50]  <daniels> only in current git versions, though
 [11:46:59]  <tormod> not in the 1.5 branch?
 [11:47:03]  <daniels> maybe.  dunno.
 [11:47:13]  <daniels> probably
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[11:49:37]  <tormod> hmm it's not in my xserver-xorg-dev package that I built
 [11:52:55]  <tormod> thanks I found it in the source at least
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[12:27:31]  <svu> is there any site wrangler around?
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[17:09:20]  <fnf> I have some problems with XGrabButton: I want all mouse button events to be sent to my applications while still allowing other apps to process. The function call caused my program to terminate.
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[17:10:12]  <fnf> My test program is a few lines of codes. Will anyone give me an example of how to do it correctly?.
 [17:11:35]  <fnf> It crashed when I passed the default root window to XGrabButton, in other cases the function returned BadWindow.
 [17:15:06]  <fnf> anyone?
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[12:42:39]  <eboettcher> err, my xserver is now dying when building Xi/getselev.c -- missing a definition for XEventClass (which is clearly in XI.h, which is included)
 [12:43:29]  <daniels^ so presumably it's finding another XI.h
 [12:43:50]  <eboettcher^ I can't find the other :)
 [12:44:52]  <eboettcher> the one that came from inputproto is the only one, I'm going to try git input proto
 [12:45:40]  <eboettcher> was using 1.4.2.1
 [12:47:05]  <jg^ locate is your friend?
 [12:47:32]  <jg> hi daniels
 [12:47:48]  <eboettcher^ indeed
 [12:48:10]  <eboettcher> and I used find just to mae since the db is out of date :P
 [12:50:44]  <eboettcher> yep... git input proto did it
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[17:37:44]  <Q-FUNK> somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that debian/ubuntu do something weird with their X core:
 [17:37:44]  <Q-FUNK> even after xf86Config has been patched to add the PCI ID of the Geode LX, X still barfs with an error saying it failed to find vga, vesa and fbdev, rather than try matching with geode.
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[03:34:25]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[07:57:25]  <vuntz> does anybody know where I can find the xkb code that switches the current layout (when the "keybinding" is pressed)?
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[08:26:27]  <daniels> vuntz: usually it isn't there
 [08:26:36]  <daniels> how much do you want to know?
 [08:31:37]  <vuntz^ well, I'm trying to understand a bug :-)
 [08:31:54]  <vuntz> so, ideally, I'd like to know everything ;-)
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[08:33:02]  <vuntz> daniels: a side-effect of the bug is that, with 4 layouts, when I switch layout, the order seems to be: 0, 1, 0, 3, 0, 1, 2, 1
 [08:33:10]  <vuntz> instead of 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3
 [08:33:49]  <vuntz> bug is https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=369263
 [08:34:13]  <vuntz> and the core part of the bug is that the layout seems to be corrupted on startup in some case
 [08:34:22]  <daniels> corrupted> that i can believe
 [08:34:38]  <daniels> so what happens is that you build one keymap which contains all four layouts you're going to use
 [08:34:45]  <daniels> these are then translated into X groups, so you have one group per layout
 [08:35:09]  <daniels> switching is purely X server internal: when you get a certain keysym (ISO_{Prev,Next}_Group or whatever), you latch/lock/shift into a certain group
 [08:35:19]  <jcristau> vuntz: careful there. this is xkb you're talking about
 [08:35:29]  <daniels> there's an option as to whether you should clamp/saturate at edge cases, or wrap, or whathaveyou
 [08:35:52]  <daniels> There's no good fix in the works now. I considered to report it upstream, but
 [08:35:55]  <daniels> since I was sure it would be ignored like any other issue, which pops up at the
 [08:35:58]  <daniels> moment, I decided not to report it. And then I felt we had already lost enough
 [08:36:01]  <daniels> time on this. Seriously, if you look at the bugreport ...
 [08:36:03]  <daniels> vuntz: thanks for letting me know :\
 [08:36:05]  * daniels sighs.
 [08:36:17]  <vuntz> (nice thing is that the bug only happens in GNOME so far, and only if you do not "interact" with X before the gnome-settings-daemon starts...)
 [08:37:27]  <daniels> quite why keycode 43 is hstroke and keycode 31 is rightarrow is beyond me, though.
 [08:37:40]  <daniels> vuntz: oh, hmm.  that last detail is very interesting indeed.
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[08:38:17]  <daniels> vuntz: output of 'xkbcomp -xkb :0 -' in all cases (both before and after g-s-d, both when you use the keyboard before g-s-d starts and when you don't) would be very interesting
 [08:38:24]  <daniels> as would an upstream bug on Input/Core assigned to me
 [08:38:36]  <vuntz^ sure, I can open a bug upstream
 [08:39:02]  <vuntz> problem with running xkbcomp is that the bug might not happen anymore after running it ;-)
 [08:39:04]  <daniels> thanks :)
 [08:39:06]  <daniels> <schema_key>/schemas/desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/general/defaultGroup</schema_key>
 [08:39:09]  <daniels>        <value>
 [08:39:12]  <daniels> -        <int>0</int>
 [08:39:14]  <daniels> +        <int>1</int>
 [08:39:17]  <daniels>        </value>
 [08:39:19]  <daniels>      </entry>
 [08:39:20]  <daniels> vuntz: xkbcomp -xkb :0 - is a read-only operation, just dumps the current map
 [08:39:23]  <daniels> that sounds suspicious though
 [08:39:27]  <daniels> it's almost entirely deterministic :)
 [08:40:46]  <daniels> jesus christ, how many hacks
 [08:41:42]  <daniels> okay, i think i know what this issue is
 [08:41:58]  <daniels> vuntz: bonus points if you want to title the bug 'initial group width n >= 2 results in broken map'
 [08:42:31]  <daniels> i've been mentally tracking this as a harmless issue, but good (ish) to know that it causes real problems.  i think fixing it would just be papering over gnome bugs, though. :\
 [08:42:39]  <daniels> svu: ping
 [08:45:28]  <vuntz^ this bug is making me crazy (been on it for a few days already), so I'll be happy to give it to you ;-)tf
 [08:46:12]  <daniels^ i'm glad someone actually told me; it's been something in the back of my mind for quite a while, but i had no idea it was actually breaking things.
 [08:46:43]  <daniels> of course the root cause is that we get the group width wrong and end up generating superfluous groups, but quite why gnome locks to the second group is beyond me.
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[08:53:13]  <daniels> svu: is fixing your key, real name and email address in ldap sufficient bribery to get you to look at why the base group gets locked at 1? ;)
 [08:53:27]  <daniels> vuntz: but yeah, if you ensure that your default group is _always_ 0, then you won't be encountering this problem
 [08:54:55]  <vuntz> good to know
 [08:58:53]  <vuntz> daniels: hrm, the xkbcomp output is the same if I use the keyboard before g-s-d starts and if I don't...
 [08:58:59]  <daniels^ awesome
 [08:59:06]  <daniels> but the bug triggers?
 [08:59:16]  <vuntz> yes :-)
 [09:01:00]  <daniels^ christ.
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[09:04:20]  <vuntz> daniels: also, setting the default group to 0 is kind of, err, not working :-)
 [09:04:29]  <daniels^ oh?
 [09:04:37]  <vuntz^ group 0 is US here and I'm still with the french layout (azerty, at least)
 [09:05:00]  <vuntz> then, I can't switch to group 1 with the keybinding, but I can do it with the keyboard layout applet
 [09:05:07]  <vuntz> and group 1 is still corrupted
 [09:05:10]  <daniels^ ah.  could you please send me a before/after xkbcomp dump?
 [09:05:15]  <vuntz> (and I can't reach groups 2 and 3)
 [09:05:42]  <daniels> that sounds quite seriously bonged.
 [09:08:05]  <vuntz> xkbcomp dump is still the same
 [09:08:12]  <vuntz> hrm
 [09:08:20]  <vuntz> I now wonder if my xkbcomp dumps are fine
 [09:10:44]  <daniels> this is not the input problem you were looking for.  *jedi handwave*
 [09:16:10]  <dr-xorg> whot: ping?
 [09:17:31]  <dr-xorg> (building libXext fails with "Xge.c:42:35: error: X11/extensions/XInput.h: No such file or directory", bit libXi needs libXext..? )
 [09:17:41]  <dr-xorg> /bit/bbut/
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[09:33:00]  <daniels> oops
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[09:34:59]  <whot> dr-xorg: doh. one sec
 [09:35:29]  <dr-xorg^ take your time :)
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[09:43:11]  <whot> hmm. interesting. tinderbox doesn't seem to care
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[09:44:05]  <dr-xorg> we've had this once before with an xserver-change which killed the VGA-driver compile...
 [09:44:05]  <dr-xorg> 't seems like it builds on top of an already existing install or somesuch ...
 [09:44:24]  <dr-xorg> that "avoids" some problems sometimes ...
 [09:46:11]  <dr-xorg> we here start wit an empty $XORG_PREFIX, running into them ... kind of ...
 [09:50:07]  <whot^ should be fixed.
 [09:54:03]  * whot goes to bed
 [09:55:34]  <dr-xorg^ thx.
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[16:45:47]  <svu> daniels, perhaps:)
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[16:51:02]  <svu> daniels, so, where is the bribe?:)
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[17:39:38]  <daniels> svu: your gpg key has been associated with your account for a while
 [17:41:15]  <svu^ does it mean I can try changing my ssh key?
 [17:41:44]  <svu> what's the story with the locked group?
 [17:44:08]  <daniels^ you can, yes
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[17:44:32]  <daniels> svu: scroll up to 13:01 UTC, conversation between me and vuntz
 [17:44:37]  <svu> great, thanks!
 [17:45:39]  <svu> daniels, can you see bugzilla.novell.com? for some reason it takes ages to connect - then it tries to save cgi script on my drive :(((
 [17:47:13]  <svu> show_bug.cgi I mean
 [17:49:27]  * svu pings vunts
 [17:49:30]  * svu pings vuntz
[17:53:38]  <vuntz^ pong
 [17:54:11]  <svu^ first question - what's wrong with bugzilla.novel.com? Is it me or your site?
 [17:54:22]  <vuntz^ works for me
 [17:55:05]  <svu> great
 [17:55:13]  <svu> now it is ok for me too:)
 [17:56:02]  <svu> vuntz, do I understand it right that without "group per window" everything is fine?
 [17:56:40]  <vuntz^ I believe that it's right -- I'd need to try again, without my ugly workaround
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[17:59:40]  <vuntz> svu: so, it seems it's broken in another way when you disable "group per window"
 [18:00:14]  <vuntz> I'm getting the layout from my xorg config instead of the layouts configured in gnome-keyboard-properties
 [18:01:05]  <svu> interesting
 [18:01:17]  <svu> do you start from gdm
 [18:01:20]  <svu> or from startx?
 [18:01:31]  <vuntz^ gdm with autologin
 [18:01:43]  <svu> if you disable autologin?
 [18:01:57]  <vuntz^ the bug doesn't appear (see coment #56)
 [18:02:22]  <svu> YEAH!
 [18:02:28]  <svu> I have another similar bug in xorg
 [18:02:35]  <svu> in gnome
 [18:02:36]  <svu> sorry
 [18:02:39]  <svu> that's mad
 [18:03:03]  <svu> I was already asking daniels about that
 [18:03:14]  <svu> xkb reports like IF it is configured by g-s-d
 [18:03:23]  <svu> (i.e. xkbcomp)
 [18:03:27]  <svu> but actually it is not
 [18:03:29]  <svu> and no errors
 [18:03:43]  <Q-FUNK> hm.  asides from adding the correct PCI ID in hw/xfree86/common/xf86AutoConfig.c is there anything to do to add support for a video driver?  where do I add the same info to have the "Xorg -configure" action succeed?
 [18:04:42]  <svu> vuntz, I'll be damned if I know what it is. I turned logging on in g-s-d - the logs are absolutely identical - for both startx (gdm+autologon) and gdm scenarios
 [18:04:55]  <svu> daniels, could we hit some race condition?
 [18:05:35]  <vuntz^ yeah, I've played with this for a few days and I couldn't see any difference in all logs
 [18:06:14]  <svu^ did you build g-s-d with enabled logging?
 [18:06:19]  <svu> (in keyboard module)
 [18:06:23]  <svu> like I did
 [18:06:49]  <vuntz^ I hacked libxklavier to force the debug (I hadn't all the deps for g-s-d at that time and I was offline)
 [18:07:02]  <svu> ok
 [18:07:07]  <daniels^ sorry, home haircut time.  with you in 10.
 [18:07:23]  <svu> vuntz,  It is enough to change one line in one g-s-d file
 [18:07:29]  <vuntz> daniels: we want live streaming! ;-)
 [18:07:49]  <vuntz> svu: yeah, I know
 [18:08:15]  <svu> daniels, ok:)
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[18:08:39]  <svu> vuntz, anyway, you seen the log. so you must have seen xkbcomp input, didn't you?
 [18:09:13]  * svu considers xkbcomp interface as alibi ;)
 [18:11:39]  <vuntz^ you mean the line showing how xkbcomp is run?
 [18:12:04]  <svu> yes, xkbcomp command line
 [18:12:10]  <svu> + xkbcomp input file
 [18:12:21]  <svu> (did you intercept it? it is not removed for high debug levels)
 [18:12:55]  <vuntz^ at some point, yeah, I had the files
 [18:13:38]  <svu> I checked - they were identical for both scenarios
 [18:15:40]  <svu> so the usd1000000 question is what's wrong with xkbcomp
 [18:17:18]  <vuntz^ if you have this money, I'm willing to fix the bug :-)
 [18:17:42]  <svu> :)
 [18:17:48]  <svu> well, not literally
 [18:18:26]  <vuntz> (although I really need to know more about X first -- I'm suffering quite a lot with this bug)
 [18:21:00]  <svu> My problem is that I know relatively little about xkbcomp internals - and even less about the way X server handles the stuff xkbcomp feeds into it
 [18:21:34]  <svu> that's why I have to chase daniels every time something is odd
 [18:21:45]  <svu> (and I am grateful for his patience btw)
 [18:22:27]  <vuntz> yeah, daniels is lovely. Although he doesn't stream his haircut!
 [18:22:53]  <daniels> MY HAIR IS CUT.
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[18:23:23]  <daniels> svu: so why do we end up with a default group as 1?
 [18:23:40]  <daniels> i'm fairly sure i know where the problem lies with getting two groups.  but why is gnome selecting the second group as default?
 [18:24:10]  <svu^ let's separate two problems first:)
 [18:24:39]  <svu> one problem - difference in the result of xkb configuration, depending on whether we configure from gdm or startx(=gdm autologin)
 [18:24:49]  <svu> second - default group 1
 [18:24:57]  <svu> the second one can be actually mine
 [18:26:27]  <daniels> the answer to the first is that the initial map is bonghits
 [18:26:56]  <daniels> if you have { foo, bar, baz, quux }, it deforms to g1 = { foo, bar, baz, quux }; g2 = { baz, quux };
 [18:26:57]  * svu learned new English word
 [18:27:20]  <daniels> but setting the map again will fix it; it's only an intial-map problem
 [18:27:25]  <daniels> i can fix that fine
 [18:27:38]  <svu> megasweet
 [18:27:43]  <svu> now, I am looking at another one
 [18:27:51]  <svu> In my configuration I have 2 groups/layouts
 [18:28:06]  <svu> and have "groupPerWindow" checked
 [18:28:28]  <svu> should I add the third one?
 [18:28:43]  <svu> (I am trying to reproduce, if you don't mind)
 [18:29:08]  <daniels> 'the third one'?
 [18:29:16]  <svu> any third layout/group
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[18:29:19]  <svu> ok, I added Albanian
 [18:29:38]  <svu> now, I am trying to cycle through the groups
 [18:30:04]  <svu> works ok.
 [18:30:06]  <svu> ghm....
 [18:30:42]  <svu> vuntz, how would I reproduce the issue please?
 [18:31:46]  <vuntz^ create a new user, load mmeeks' gconf dump from the bug, enable autologin in gdm, reboot (or do init 3; init 5)
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[18:32:09]  <svu> vuntz, is the problem reproducable without autologin?
 [18:32:15]  <vuntz^ no
 [18:32:21]  * svu does not want interference
 [18:32:41]  <vuntz^ or do you mean startx? (didn't try startx)
 [18:33:12]  <svu> it sees they have same effect
 [18:34:01]  <daniels^ autologin -> default map set on core, extended/whatever map set on extended, before normal map set on both
 [18:34:21]  <daniels> no autologin -> default map set on core, extended map set on extended, before extended map copied to core, before normal map set on both
 [18:34:39]  <daniels> (default -> pc105/us; extended/whatever -> fr/etc; normal -> fr/etc.)
 [18:34:58]  <daniels> if that made any sense.  i need sleep.  'night.
 [18:35:16]  <svu^ OMG. that's really odd. good night - and thanks a bunch
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[18:36:03]  <svu> vuntz, I will make an attempt with the new account. give me 5 mins
 [18:36:11]  <daniels> np.  i'll check scrollback if you come up with anything, but trust me that the groups issue is on my radar to solve in the immediate future (unlike the others involving xkbcomp, which i'm simply hoping will go away).
 [18:36:17]  <daniels> thanks for taking a look
 [18:36:37]  <svu> ok
 [18:36:59]  <svu> daniels, one last question - do you have a bug about it in fd.o?
 [18:37:03]  <svu> should I file it?
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[18:38:27]  <vuntz> svu: I filed a bug
 [18:38:43]  <svu^ sweet!
 [18:38:53]  <svu> novell's bugzilla hates me again :(((
 [18:39:05]  <vuntz> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16105
 [18:39:39]  <svu> cool! I will refer to that bug!
 [18:40:29]  <svu> ok, bugzilla is back. that's really odd. is it my provider?...
 [18:40:47]  <vuntz^ don't have any such issue, fwiw
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[18:46:21]  <svu> anyway, I am off to reproduce
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[19:01:54]  <svu> vuntz, ok, I have mmeeks's config loaded
 [19:02:01]  <svu> and gdm autologged in
 [19:02:21]  <svu> and I see 2 layouts are switching (by the mouse click on the applet)
 [19:02:34]  <svu> sure switching using 2 alts does not work, but that's expected
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[19:31:49]  <svu> vuntz, anyway, I have to go to bed now. Let's continue tomorrow
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[20:58:38]  <jklehm> I hate to be a pest but I'm back here again still confused about how tablets are detected.  In Wine right now we look for XExtensionDevice or XExtensionPointer.  Now I just got a report and the output of xsetpointer -l shows a wacom tablet gets detected as XExtensionKeyboard.  Is this a misconfiguration by the user or will tablets be consistently classified as XExtensionKeyboard in the future?
 [21:07:25]  <whot^ hmm. this is probably a wrong check in the server
 [21:08:10]  <whot> btw. XExtensionDevice is more or less deprecated, everything should detect either as XE...Pointer or Keyboard
 [21:09:42]  <whot> oh. ic. problem is that the check for keyboard is done before the check for pointer
 [21:09:56]  <whot> so any device that has keys will be listed as keyboard
 [21:10:59]  <jklehm^ I understand but if we just dropped support for XExtensionDevice people grabbing the latest wine on old distros would have problems. 
[21:11:40]  <whot^ that's fine. some devices are still labeled as ExtDevice, but only those that don't have axes, buttons or keys
 [21:12:37]  <jklehm^ so Wine should also check XExtensionKeyboard for tablets?
 [21:13:11]  <whot^ I guess so.
 [21:13:26]  <whot> you could just theck for (dev->use >= XExtensionDevice)
 [21:14:08]  <jklehm^ that constant isn't deprecated?
 [21:14:40]  <whot> no, sorry. what I mean is that only few devices will be labeled like this. most will be pointer or kbd. the constant remains though
 [21:15:59]  <jklehm> how does x decide the class of a device?
 [21:16:47]  <jklehm> is it based on the kernel driver or some internal scheme?
 [21:17:25]  <whot> xserver/Xi/listdev.c
 [21:17:54]  <whot> if d->key -> keyboard
 [21:18:01]  <whot> if d->valuator && d->button -> pointer
 [21:18:05]  <whot> else -> extdev
 [21:18:08]  <whot> that's pretty much it
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[21:31:32]  <jklehm> heh ok, thank you so much for your help whot.  hopefully will get this into wine before 1.0
 [21:34:27]  <whot> no worries
 [21:35:18]  <vignatti^ hi Peter
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[21:35:43]  <vignatti> whot: awesome. The hw cursor in mpx is wonderful working here
 [21:35:59]  <vignatti> thx and sorry for the delay on the feedback :)
 [21:42:52]  <whot> no worries. as long as it works
 [21:43:01]  <whot> haven't had any issues with it either since
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----- [2008-05-27] -----
 [00:08:56]  <whot> airlied: ping
 [00:09:22]  <airlied^ hey..
 [00:10:53]  <whot^ hey. question: what justifies a bump in the video driver ABI?
 [00:11:17]  <airlied^ changing structs that video driver use
 [00:11:19]  <whot^ driver must be recompiled for mpx, the ABI has changed. but do we bump it in git master?
 [00:11:28]  <whot> or is that something we wait for closer to release?
 [00:11:37]  <airlied^ generally we wait for releases usually.
 [00:12:15]  <whot> k, then I leave it.
 [00:12:36]  <airlied^ what did mpx do to my video API :)
 [00:12:41]  <airlied> or is just a generic driver breakage?
 [00:12:51]  <whot> add to fields to ScreenRec
 [00:12:58]  <whot> two fields
 [00:13:04]  <airlied> ah coool..
 [00:13:38]  <whot> so just recompile is enough
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[00:51:27]  <whot> that was one big commit...
 [00:54:38]  <vignatti^ congrat!
 [00:54:43]  <whot> thx
 [00:55:21]  <jklehm> the 1 liner abi bump? =P
 [00:55:23]  <airlied> whot: dude I thought you were crazy when you mentioned mpx in Dunedin :)
 [00:55:28]  <airlied> now I know you were :)
 [00:57:19]  <whot> hehe
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[01:33:42]  <jklehm> whot would you like to be referenced in the changelog for the XExtensionKeyboard type tablet support in wine?
 [01:33:53]  <jklehm> give me your real name if so
 [01:34:54]  <eboettcher> Hmm... so I was looking into giving verbose version numbers (that mention some of the contents of git describe) when I noticed something:
 [01:35:04]  <eboettcher> r300@Tuborg ~/version/mesa $ git describe
 [01:35:04]  <eboettcher> mesa_6_5_3-1834-gde27760
 [01:39:39]  <whot> jklehm: meh, don't worry about it.
 [01:41:50]  <jklehm> ok, thanks again!
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[01:53:44]  <eboettcher> is mesa ever going to be re-tagged to reflect the current version?
 [02:07:37]  <DrNick> current version is 7.0.3 and there's a mesa_7_0_3 tag, so I don't know what more you could want
 [02:08:22]  <eboettcher^ well if you ask git describe, everything is brached from mesa_6_5_3, not mesa_7_0_3
 [02:08:56]  <airlied> we don't tag the manline in mesa I don't think
 [02:09:04]  <airlied> we tag the stable branches.
 [02:09:56]  <DrNick> yeah, mesa_7_0_branch diverged before the mesa_7_0_3 tag was made
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[03:28:31]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:12:31]  <wereHamster> what does the _NET stand for in the wm-spec?
 [04:14:06]  <daniels> originally it was called netwm
 [04:14:15]  <daniels> after which it was renamed to ewmh
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[04:17:00]  <wereHamster> I'm asking because I'll have to come up with a spec, and I wanted to know whether the _NET prefix has a particular meaning and if I should use it as well or use some thing else
 [04:20:01]  <daniels> depends.  if it should be part of ewmh, then discuss it on xdg@lists.fd.o and get it as part of the spec.  if not, use a different prefix just for clarity.
 [04:20:34]  <wereHamster+ if it should be part of ewmh, then discuss it on xdg@lists.fd.o and get it as part of the spec.  if not, use  a different prefix just for clarity.
 [04:20:41]  <wereHamster> oops, sorry
 [04:21:44]  <wereHamster> it's to allow applications attach color profiles to windows, which then the compositing manager will use to automatically perform colorspace transformation
 [04:24:38]  <wereHamster> so I thought using a _NET_COLOR prefix (instead of _NET_WM). But thanks for mentioning the xdg list, I'll send them an email
 [04:27:20]  <daniels> yeah, best to co-ordinate that one with xdg
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[04:41:51]  <wereHamster> another question, how do you feel about the WM poking aroun on subwindows of top level windows? Like attaching properties, subscribing to events etc? would that be ok?
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[04:47:19]  <daniels> wereHamster: why would the WM do that?
 [04:48:42]  <wereHamster> err.. sorry, bad explaination. The application would attach color profiles to child windows and the wm would then get the profiles and perform the appropriate colorspace transformation
 [04:50:32]  <onestone^ it might be some kind for overkill for a WM to handle also all chid windows
 [04:51:25]  <wereHamster> the problem is when applications will want to have different profiles on different regions of their window
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[04:51:56]  <wereHamster> so there will have to be a way for them to specify regions and attach profiles to those
 [04:52:33]  <wereHamster> first I thought creating a new X11 extension, but you suggested using subwindows instead
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[05:02:42]  <onestone> wereHamster: use subwindows, but store it in the toplevel window
 [05:06:52]  <wereHamster^ store what in the toplevel window?
 [05:07:12]  <onestone> the color profile information for the sub windows
 [05:08:00]  <wereHamster> you mean store XID/Profile pairs for each subwindow?
 [05:08:23]  <onestone> yes
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[05:27:55]  <wereHamster> can an input-only window have a input-output as a child?
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[05:32:48]  <ddenis> wereHamster: no. man page for XReparentWindow says no.
 [05:36:01]  <ddenis> is it the right place to ask about using XComposite extension? How can I draw some toplevel window with some transformations applied at some other place on screen - for example inside my application - I tried reparenting (or embedding) a window, but what if the source window is a large one, and I want to draw a scaled version of it inside my app - if I use XCompositeRedirectWindow there will be a lot of garbage around scaled version of
 [05:36:01]  <ddenis> the window, right?
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[06:29:05]  <wereHamster> onestone: why do you think having the profiles in the top level window only is better?
 [06:29:59]  <onestone^ because the WM/CM will not need to go the window tree down to find windows with profiles
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[06:30:56]  <wereHamster> is XQueryTree() that expensive?
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[06:33:10]  <daniels> for every single rendering operation?
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[06:36:04]  <wereHamster> no, the tree would only be traversed once the application has attached the profiles to the subwindows and told the WM to check those
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[14:42:29]  <idr> I'm still having some confusion about some randr-1.2 terminology.
 [14:43:01]  <idr> The physical plugs on the video card are "outputs" in randr-1.2 speak?
 [14:44:04]  <idr> I guess I don't completely see how those are different from CRTCs.
 [14:44:17]  <jbarnes^ the terminology there is actually a little off
 [14:44:27]  <jbarnes> "outputs" in the randr sense really refer to encoders on the device
 [14:44:48]  <jbarnes> i.e. the dac chips the crtcs feed
 [14:44:56]  <jbarnes> which in turn have physical outputs attached to them
 [14:45:48]  <idr> okay
 [14:46:51]  <ssp> jbarnes: Then what does it mean for an output to be "connected"?
 [14:47:17]  <jbarnes> means that output/encoder is actually driving an external display
 [14:47:28]  <jbarnes> or at least thinks it is
 [14:48:11]  <jbarnes> you can think about it another way too
 [14:48:29]  <jbarnes> the number of crtcs you have is really the  maximum number of independent (non-cloned) displays you can drive
 [14:48:47]  <jbarnes> and the number of outputs you have should correspond to the number of external displays you can connect at once
 [14:49:02]  <jbarnes> usually there are the number of outputs >= number of crtcs
 [14:50:02]  <ssp> Right, but can it ever be the case that you have a different number of physical plugs than "output"s?
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[14:50:33]  <aaronp> ssp: Depends on the driver.
 [14:50:36]  <jbarnes> yes
 [14:50:41]  <aaronp> Some drivers expose DVI-I as two outputs.
 [14:50:42]  <jbarnes> since for example you could have a dongle
 [14:51:18]  <jbarnes> really that's a problem with the randr abstraction
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[14:51:29]  <ssp> ok, but you can never be in the situation where more than one monitor is plugged in to an "output", right?
 [14:51:30]  <jbarnes> outputs should have been separated into encoders & connectors
 [14:51:59]  <aaronp> ssp: Right.
 [14:52:21]  <aaronp> jbarnes: Yeah, I need to figure out how to deal with DisplayPort in the randr 1.2 framework.
 [14:52:33]  <ssp> In the DVI->VGA dongle case, I believe the nv driver simply reported a different output
 [14:52:49]  <aaronp> That's right.
 [14:53:10]  <ssp> jbarnes: Maybe internally to the server, but I don't think userspace really needs to care about the difference
 [14:53:19]  <aaronp> The nv driver just creates an output for each entry in the connector table.
 [14:53:46]  <jbarnes> ssp: radeon might do something similar, you'd have to ask agd5f
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[14:55:17]  <agd5f> in radeon we treat randr outputs as connectors (DVI, VGA, etc.)
 [14:55:50]  <stillunknown> It's possible, but hackish, imo.
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[14:56:28]  <agd5f> ideally we'd have an "encoder" object between crtc and connector
 [14:58:39]  <stillunknown> I'm working on some ideas for kernel modesetting, which will also include a new interface and a way of doing things.
 [14:58:42]  <ssp> But as seen from client-space, this distinction is irrelevant because all it means is that (say) VGA-0 and DVI-0 will never be reported connected at the same time, and that an attempt to assign both to a CRTC will fail
 [15:00:08]  <stillunknown> That doesn't make randr-1.2 any prettier.
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[15:02:52]  <anholt> jbarnes: I've always considered randr outputs to actually mean outputs.  if you've got one encoder that drives two outputs, like the old dvo junk on 830 laptops (TV+LVDS), you expose two outputs.
 [15:03:10]  <jbarnes^ yeah I think that's the only way to implement it
 [15:03:12]  <ssp> It's good enough for rock and roll. And drivers can create encoder objects internally if they want to - I believe nv does that
 [15:03:14]  <jbarnes> well only sane way
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[17:41:40]  <vignatti> is there a way to set an argument on the fly to a kernel module?
 [17:41:56]  <airlied^ after its loaded?
 [17:42:02]  <airlied> you can use /sys
 [17:42:20]  <airlied> /sys/module/<modname>/parameters
 [17:42:37]  <vignatti^ hum, let me see..
 [17:42:37]  <airlied> but the persmissions need to be correct and the driver needs to use it internally correctly.
 [17:43:01]  <vignatti^ okay. it's just a test that i'm doing here
 [17:43:18]  <airlied^ the drm does it for debugging.
 [17:43:29]  <jbarnes+ it's also fairly easy to wire up an ioctl if you need to pass a structure or something
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[17:46:13]  <vignatti> jbarnes: oh sure, forgot that as well. Tkx Jesse
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[17:49:49]  <dberkholz> whot: hmm, mpx doesn't "just work" here. i've got a thinkpad with the finger joystick, a touchpad, and 2 sets of mouse buttons. only the finger stick and top buttons work.
 [17:58:39]  <svu> vuntz, ping?
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[17:59:43]  <vuntz> svu: pong
 [18:00:21]  <svu^ yesterday I tried MMeeks's gconf with new user - could not reproduce the issue with the default group, even with autologon
 [18:00:35]  <svu> May be I did something wrong...
 [18:00:48]  <vuntz> weird
 [18:00:49]  <svu^ do you have simple sequence of steps to see what's actually wrong?
 [18:02:39]  <vuntz^ well, my sequence is "load the gconf dump, have a terminal autostarted, enable autologin, reboot or init3&&init5, wait for the login to be completed without using the keyboard or the mouse, press a key in the terminal"
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[18:03:36]  <svu> vuntz, ok, did you put the terminal into the session?
 [18:03:58]  <vuntz^ no, just autostart
 [18:04:07]  <vuntz> but it's really not needed
 [18:04:28]  <vuntz> I just added it for convenience (was easier to have it open directly so I could test)
 [18:05:08]  <svu> ok
 [18:05:17]  <svu> I'll try this
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[18:08:35]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: any idea what we might miss in 1.4 to make geode 2.9.0 work in LTSP?  1.5 already has everything that ajax committed, but we're probably missing some of that in 1.4
 [18:09:58]  <CosmicPenguin> I have no idae
 [18:10:01]  <CosmicPenguin> idea even
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[18:17:46]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: what does debian use to generate those pci id lists?
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[18:46:16]  <bryce> Q-FUNK: there are some scripts in the packaging that grep/sed them out of the appropriate src files
 [18:48:35]  <Q-FUNK^ found.  they seem to patch src/Makefile.am to generate those, though.  pretty strange way of doing this
 [18:50:50]  <bryce^ I'm unfamiliar with the background rationale for it, but I also found it a bit strange when I first saw it.  Seems to work though.
 [18:54:20]  <Q-FUNK^ I'm still trying tko figure out how to autoreconfigure to get the new Makefile.in without ending up with an impossibly huge diff
 [18:55:50]  <bryce^ *nod*  Usually I just hand-edit both the .am and .in.  But sometimes that's not trivial.
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[18:57:53]  <Q-FUNK> well, the goal of having this in debian/patches would be to patch this at build time, but how they manage to make the patch reversible after an autoreconf is beyond me
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[19:04:04]  <Q-FUNK> jcristau: would you be able to shed some light on how that works?
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[19:44:27]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: did I get this correctly that the full PCI ID for the LX is 10222081 ?
 [19:45:27]  <Q-FUNK> and GX would be 100B0030 ?
 [19:45:44]  <whot> dberkholz: can you post the xorg.log please?
 [19:45:58]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: yes
 [19:46:08]  <CosmicPenguin> have you tested that patch yet?  It is very critical
 [19:46:26]  <Q-FUNK^ I don't have any geode to play with here
 [19:46:36]  <CosmicPenguin> Just compile testing would do
 [19:46:59]  <Q-FUNK^ ah. in that case, yes, I can try.  that would be against 1.4 build, though
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[19:49:13]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: exactly what I was looking for
 [19:50:40]  <Q-FUNK^ can you hang in here a few minutes?
 [19:50:48]  <CosmicPenguin> sure
 [19:50:58]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [19:51:32]  <Q-FUNK> I'm trying to fix that damn geode.ids issue in my geode build.  if that works, I'll try your patch next.
 [19:51:44]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [19:53:19]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: the good news is that you pointed me to the right info.  even better, this might allow me to add support for GX, despite the x86config still being without the GX's PCI ID, due to id overlap with nsc.
 [19:54:31]  <bryce^ cool
 [19:56:49]  <Q-FUNK> unfortunately, I don't have any geode to try this here now, but I'll upload to my PPA now, so that people can test this
 [20:05:47]  <CosmicPenguin^ never mind - it got fixed
 [20:05:48]  <CosmicPenguin> mostly
 [20:07:20]  <CosmicPenguin> it will break for all you < 1.5 types, but I can add the #if later
 [20:07:35]  <Q-FUNK> that's ok.  we won't merge it for now
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[20:08:19]  <Q-FUNK> but the #ifdef would still be appreciated so that we can backport future releases to Hardy.
 [20:08:29]  <CosmicPenguin> indeed
 [20:08:35]  <CosmicPenguin> I'll put it in once my keys are fixed
 [20:08:47]  <CosmicPenguin> or have warren do it
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[20:09:18]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: cannot send new ssh keys with your gpg signature?
 [20:09:36]  <CosmicPenguin> I think our mail server is broken with a capital B
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[20:09:44]  <Q-FUNK> ouch
 [20:13:20]  <leio> and if you don't have a GPG signature on record, your security is behind bugzilla password, as someone noted before ;p
 [20:13:26]  <leio> CosmicPenguin: what's critical about it, btw?
 [20:14:05]  <CosmicPenguin> it broke HEAD
 [20:14:20]  <CosmicPenguin> erm - HEAD was broken
 [20:19:41]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: ok, I have a new package for hardy-proposed
 [20:20:32]  <Q-FUNK> where can I send you the dsc and debian diff?
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[20:28:23]  <bryce> Q-FUNK: either email me, or post it to a LP bug report and assign to me
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[20:29:48]  <Q-FUNK> bryce: ok
 [20:35:17]  <Q-FUNK> sent
 [20:36:03]  <dberkholz> whot: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/Xorg.0.log
 [20:41:15]  <whot^ hmm. it doesn't find a separate touchpad, just the trackpoint
 [20:41:24]  <whot> do the touchpad events come out of the same device?
 [20:42:55]  <dberkholz^ no, i've got /dev/input/mouse{0,1}
 [20:43:26]  <whot^ but you're not using them, it's evdev only
 [20:44:09]  <dberkholz^ hmm, they do both come from event6
 [20:45:04]  <whot^ ah crap. try to revert the recent evdev patch to suppress absolute axes when rel axes are found.
 [20:45:13]  <whot> this may be the issue here
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[20:45:17]  <dberkholz> k
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[20:47:48]  <dberkholz> gotta head over to another building, it'll probably be 15-20 min till i can test
 [20:48:31]  <whot> that's fine
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[21:19:46]  <dberkholz> whot: hmm, reverted 8b7738457feef13e1fab88bb30c94093dd8bfcc5 and no luck
 [21:20:10]  <dberkholz> i was running pretty current evdev before, and xorg-server as of shortly before the mpx merge
 [21:21:32]  <dberkholz> looks like may 21 xorg-server, may 9 evdev
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[21:26:40]  <whot> damn. can you gdb it?
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[21:49:21]  <dberkholz> whot: i only own 1 computer at the moment
 [21:49:52]  <whot> doh
 [21:51:14]  <dberkholz> and that will be the case for the foreseeable future, since i just got rid of my other stuff to make room for a nursery
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[21:52:38]  <whot> oh. congrats
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[21:53:08]  <dberkholz> i can probably do a bisect at some point, but i don't have the time now
 [21:53:17]  <dberkholz> and thanks
 [21:56:09]  <whot> can you put some ErrorF's in? there's two points where I can see the events possibly disappearing
 [21:56:22]  <dberkholz> sure
 [22:03:22]  <whot> there's a few early exists in GetPointerEvents, one at the start and one at the end would be good to see if the event goes into the EQ
 [22:03:42]  <whot> and then there's an exit right after UpdateDeviceState in ProcessOtherEvents (Xi/exevents.c). two there would be good
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[22:10:03]  <dberkholz> whot: one at start of end of each early exit in GPE, or just 2 for the whole fn?
 [22:10:14]  <dberkholz> start *and* end
 [22:15:55]  <whot> just 2 will do for now
 [22:22:26]  <whot> if the events disappear in GPE, the device is set up wrongly. if they disappear in POE we have ... issues.
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[03:28:48]  <MrCooper> whot: probably the required versions of those protos should be bumped in configure.ac
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[03:31:43]  <whot> MrCooper: well. the problem is that the protos haven't actually been bumped yet
 [03:33:05]  <MrCooper> that's a problem? :) if you don't want to do releases, bump them to *.99 or something?
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[03:34:08]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:35:38]  <whot> MrCooper: the problem would be that between now and the actual .99 candidate (which is usually shortly before release) we'd have to expect a number of bumps
 [03:36:03]  <MrCooper> .901?
 [03:36:17]  <whot^ the current stance (from an IRC talk ages ago) was more that if you want to run git master you should be expecting breakages and update often.
 [03:37:26]  <MrCooper> sure, but it's always good to catch stale dependencies early on, or we'll probably get more spurious compile failure reports
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[03:38:51]  <whot> MrCooper: true.
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[03:43:12]  <whot> do we have any guidelines on versioning numbers?
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[03:45:49]  <whot> in detail for x11proto and xextproto
 [03:48:26]  <MrCooper> dunno, but I think appending .901 should be fine?
 [03:50:56]  <dberkholz> whot: i'd really like to see version bumps of some sort for the new dependencies too
 [03:51:08]  <whot^ doing it right now
 [03:51:09]  <dberkholz> it was annoying to rebuild crap over and over till i found the right set of stuff
 [03:51:14]  <whot> sorry
 [03:51:24]  <dberkholz> that reminds me, i need to restart X
 [03:51:58]  <whot> looking at the logs, looks like x11proto and xextproto can just be bumped, no .901 or so
 [03:52:47]  <dberkholz> bah, i forgot to put newlines in those ErrorF's
 [03:53:08]  <whot> hehe
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[03:56:23]  <dberkholz>    2560 After UpdateDeviceState() exit in POE
 [03:56:23]  <dberkholz>    2564 Before UpdateDeviceState() exit in POE
 [03:56:23]  <dberkholz>     796 End of GetPointerEvents() early exits
 [03:56:23]  <dberkholz>     796 Start of GetPointerEvents()
 [03:58:58]  <whot^ that is for motion events?
 [03:59:24]  <dberkholz> lemme try to do nothing but ignored touchpad events and get sort of a diff
 [04:01:06]  <dberkholz> so i moved the touchpad around a ton for a few seconds, the GPE numbers didn't change at all, the POE numbers went up by 16 for both before and after
 [04:03:11]  <dberkholz> this is with the evdev patch to revert relative+absolute
 [04:03:33]  <whot> so GPE isn't called for the touchpad?
 [04:03:41]  <dberkholz> looks that way
 [04:04:32]  <dberkholz> whot: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/Xorg.diff
 [04:04:59]  <dberkholz> (just a summary, not a real diff..)
 [04:05:57]  <whot^ yeah. well, looks like the touchpad doesn't send events. Or these events never get through to the server
 [04:06:12]  <whot> I take it the /eventX device spits out data when you hit the pad?
 [04:06:39]  <dberkholz^ yep
 [04:06:47]  <dberkholz> event6 is pad + stick
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[04:09:07]  <whot> dberkholz: ok. next step: in EvdevReadInput (src/evdev.c), put an xf86Msg(X_ERROR, ...) before xf86PostMotionEvent
 [04:09:17]  <whot> before and after
 [04:14:10]  <dberkholz^ a particular xf86PostMotionEvent or around the group of 2?
 [04:15:13]  <whot> just put three in, not sure which one is called for your touchpad
 [04:24:26]  <dberkholz^ looks like it gets all the way through there
 [04:25:12]  <dberkholz> http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/Xorg-PME.diff has a log diff of touchpad movement
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[04:27:30]  <whot> you still have the debug msgs in GPE?
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[04:30:52]  <dberkholz> whot: yep
 [04:34:19]  <whot^ looks like the driver never posts the events then
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[04:34:38]  <whot> xf86PostMotionEvent only has one exit point, and that one logs an error
 [04:34:51]  <whot> unless you have a DGA client running permanently
 [04:36:57]  <dberkholz^ not unless gnome-terminal or firefox use dga
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[04:37:54]  <whot> unlikely
 [04:39:36]  <whot> MrCooper: dependencies are pushed, for xserver anyway. libs come later tonight or tomorrow
 [04:40:34]  <whot> dberkholz: well. I guess that dx/dy in evdev are 0 for some reason.
 [04:40:51]  <whot> but the only way to find that out is put more debug msgs in
 [04:41:03]  <MrCooper> thanks whot!
 [04:41:58]  <whot> dberkholz: sorry, gotta hop now.
 [04:42:00]  <whot> good luck
 [04:42:12]  <dberkholz^ alright, i'm just using the stick + top buttons in the meanwhile.
 [04:42:28]  <dberkholz> till i get sick enough of it to rebuild an older version
 [04:42:38]  <dberkholz> whot: thanks for the help so far
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[05:18:36]  <jg> hi egbert
 [05:21:06]  <jg> egbert: you at LinuxTAG, by any chance?
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[06:00:36]  <linuxpower1> hello, has any progress been made on getting xorg 7.4 released in the last couple of weeks?
 [06:00:51]  * linuxpower1 is anxious to have 3d acceleration in fedora 9
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[06:01:43]  <jcristau> moo_cow: how many bugs did you fix in the last couple of weeks?
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[06:02:51]  <moo_cow> jcristau, id like to help if I'm able to. I'm very good at C++, okay at Java, and can recognize some things in other code. what is xorg written in?
 [06:02:59]  <jcristau> C
 [06:03:08]  <moo_cow> sorry, said that wrong
 [06:03:15]  <moo_cow> very good at java, okay at c++
 [06:03:21]  <moo_cow> :(
 [06:04:01]  <moo_cow> id like contributing to linux in ways that I'm good at
 [06:18:30]  <pachi^ if you're not only interested in X development, there are interesting java projects like eclipse, openoffice or classpath that would fit your experience very nicely
 [06:20:22]  <moo_cow> okay pachi
[06:20:48]  <moo_cow> ill just look at the bug website
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[08:52:21]  <Jayjay> Hello, all. :)
 [08:52:22]  <Jayjay> Since the MPX merge I get a warning trying to start for example glxinfo:
 [08:52:24]  <Jayjay> Xlib:  extension "Generic Event Extension" missing on display ":0.0".
 [08:52:26]  <Jayjay> Since I pulled the whole modular X from GIT 3 hours ago: Do I have to adapt my xorg.conf to load this extension? I could not find a separate *.so for that...
 [08:53:17]  <mraudsepp^ MPX was merged to git master a couple days ago, this meant you need to rebuild input and video drivers
 [08:53:24]  <Jayjay> I did
 [08:53:34]  <mraudsepp> oh, you already mentioned about MPX, so you know all about it, sorry
 [08:53:50]  <Jayjay> I rebuilt the whole story from scratch...
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[10:54:56]  <Liskni_si> hello
 [10:55:29]  <Liskni_si> i just noticed that Xephyr sends a MotionNotify event between ButtonPress and ButtonRelease
 [10:55:42]  <Liskni_si> does anyone happen to remeber fixing it? :)
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[13:50:35]  <hwdyki> where can i find documentation on programming x drivers?
 [13:54:52]  <fredrikh^ there's doxygen docs for EXA, but i don't know if they're available in generated form anywhere
 [13:55:26]  <fredrikh> but you can read them in the header file: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/exa/exa.h
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[13:56:04]  <hwdyki> hello?
 [13:57:11]  <stillunknown> boo
 [14:01:20]  <anholt> fredrikh: annarchy's doxygen is broken, or they'd be autogenerated.
 [14:02:12]  <anholt> oh, that one works before the crash.  http://people.freedesktop.org/~anholt/doxygen/xorg/xserver/exa_8h.html
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[15:13:53]  <vignatti> I must to bother who if I want to hurry my account changes at fdo?
 [15:14:00]  <vignatti> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16137
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[15:27:19]  <dberkholz> anholt: did your parsecvs changes get merged into keithp's repo at some point?
 [15:27:30]  <anholt> afaik
 [15:27:51]  <dberkholz> i'm attempting to run jamey's git-split to see if i can get libxf86config out of the xserver repo and into its own
 [15:27:59]  <svu_> Is it allowed to do ssh to git.fd.o ?
 [15:29:10]  <ds^ not for most people
 [15:29:30]  <svu_^ for xorg devs?
 [15:29:36]  <ds^ for most people, it dumps you into a shell that only handles git and cvs
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[15:33:08]  <svu_> ds, that's what I am interested in. thanks!
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[16:03:16]  <dberkholz> hm, i can manage to get back to november 2003 with git-split, but then it dies on "R6.6 is the Xorg base-line" -- ded6147bfb5d75ff1e67c858040a628b61bc17d1
 [16:03:19]  <dberkholz> must be something weird going on there
 [16:11:06]  <svu_> ds, I cannot even get to shell
 [16:11:17]  <svu_> "missing original command" + "connection closed"
 [16:11:20]  <svu_> (on git.fd.o)
 [16:11:49]  <dberkholz> that's what he was saying -- you can't actually log in. you can only run git and cvs commands
 [16:12:10]  <dberkholz> ssh git.fd.o "git blah blah"
 [16:12:10]  <svu_> how would I create git repository then?
 [16:12:21]  <svu_> like "mkdir " etc stuff?
 [16:12:29]  <dberkholz> you won't be able to do that either
 [16:12:41]  <svu_> oops
 [16:13:00]  <svu_> ok, so who would be able to create repository for xkeyboard-config then?
 [16:13:16]  * svu_ is zero day newbie in git
 [16:14:39]  * ds bets you could do it with --git-dir, except that you still don't have permission to write in the correct directory
 [16:16:47]  <ds> svu_: you need someone with shell access to kemper.  filing a bug (um, or complaining on irc) is your best bet
 [16:17:06]  <svu_> keithp, ping ?
 [16:17:07]  <dberkholz> replying to your thread on the mailing list might work well
 [16:17:31]  <svu_^ ok, if I don't find anyone here soon - that's what I'll do
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[16:37:43]  <arekm> is swrast stuff going to be merged into 1.5 branch? (so it will be possible to built it with released mesa 7.1 rc1)
 [16:38:58]  <ajax> thinking about it.
 [16:39:05]  <dberkholz^ i'd really like that too
 [16:39:26]  <ajax> certainly would be less pain than banging in 7.0.3 support, which isn't going well
 [16:39:30]  <dberkholz> was going to suggest it myself, but didn't feel like crowding the mailing list since nicholson already said it
 [16:39:41]  <svu_> ajax, do you have shell access to git box?
 [16:40:12]  <dberkholz> if it doesn't happen, i'll probably do it in gentoo anyway to avoid the pain
 [16:40:17]  <ajax> svu_: yes.
 [16:40:44]  <svu_^ would you be able to help me with creating repo for xkeyboard-config?
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[16:47:37]  <ajax> done.  you should be able to push into git+ssh://git.freedesktop.org/git/xkeyboard-config
 [16:48:50]  <svu_^ thanks! how would I convert cvs history into it? the howto I have is using git-cvsimport
 [16:49:03]  <svu_> will it work remotely?
 [16:49:39]  <Ori_B^ just convert into your local repository and push
 [16:50:20]  <svu_^ it will keep the history, won't it?
 [16:50:38]  <Ori_B> never tried with cvs, but it should in theory
 [16:51:26]  <ds> it works the same
 [16:52:17]  <svu_> good
 [16:52:19]  <svu_> I will try
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[17:27:58]  <MrCooper> ajax: please merge 6c95fae1e9d6b0eb64bc78eced05a6e9f5faf02e ('EXA: Offscreen memory eviction improvements.') to the 1.5 branch
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[17:38:15]  * fredrikh also nominates 06e7e1d0486e8c516a9b3219a2c86026f88825fc
 [17:41:11]  <MrCooper> off for tonight, bbl
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[18:45:54]  <airlied> ajax: you may as well merge otaylots stuff for 1.5, EXA isn't exactly critical infrastructure yet :)
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[18:49:35]  <agd5f> also for 1.5 what about swrast?
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[18:50:55]  <airlied> agd5f: yeah he's considering it from earlier comments.
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[08:20:34]  <CE> Hi
 [08:21:31]  <CE> Can i request transormed compositon for glyphs?
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[08:44:26]  <Q-FUNK> *sigh*
 [08:45:21]  <Q-FUNK> I'm really wondering what the LTSP guys are doing to their chroot.  Cannot get X to work there with GEODE and yet it works fine in standalone mode, with or without a config.
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[09:54:41]  <Q-FUNK> does the code that -configure use have a fixed list of supported drivers that needs to be patched, whenever adding new drivers to the katamari, the same way that xf86AutoConfig.c needs to be patched for PCI ID matching?
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[10:19:39]  <mraudsepp> Q-FUNK: if you use X -configure on a standalone system, what's the result?
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[10:30:20]  <Q-FUNK> a usable config with the "geode" driver as device
 [10:32:16]  <mraudsepp^ ok, so what does LTSP use there then if both ways of Xorg doing it on its own work fine
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[10:33:20]  <Q-FUNK> I'm wondering about that now
 [10:33:51]  <Q-FUNK> i'm wondeirng if there might be contxts where -configure can fail
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[10:38:29]  <mraudsepp> does LTSP there use it to generate an xorg.conf?
 [10:38:40]  <Q-FUNK> afaik it does
 [10:38:53]  <mraudsepp> probably best seen if possible to ssh in and just less the xorg.conf - it should have notes on top like "autogenerated by foo" if it is
 [10:38:56]  <Q-FUNK> it first -configures and then it uses it
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[12:16:24]  <Linuxhippy> Hi
 [12:16:29]  <Linuxhippy> Does XRenderCompositeText* support traformations?
 [12:16:42]  <Linuxhippy> or do I need to upload my transformed glyphs every time it changes?
 [12:17:13]  <MrCooper^ what kind of transformations?
 [12:17:33]  <Linuxhippy> rotation for example
 [12:18:02]  <Linuxhippy> I could create many XGlyphElt8 for each glyph to "simulate" it
 [12:18:12]  <Linuxhippy> but, the glyphs itself are of course not rotated
 [12:18:19]  <MrCooper> can you render the text to a temporary picture and then transform that?
 [12:19:08]  <Linuxhippy> that would not work for subpixel AA as far as i know :-/
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[12:20:36]  <Linuxhippy> well if it does not support it, i'll have to do it myself. just thought there's a XRender way of doing things ;)
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[12:23:05]  <Linuxhippy> I'll ask the cairo-guys how they do the stuff
 [12:34:47]  <Linuxhippy> nobody knows :-/
 [12:35:07]  <Linuxhippy> I really wonder ... XRender is supposed to be *the* next generation API for rendering
 [12:35:21]  <Linuxhippy> and it seems only a handful of people really understand it :-/
 [12:42:28]  <MrCooper^ I think apps should rather use something like cairo rather than XRender directly
 [12:43:03]  <Linuxhippy> well if you write something like cairo there's no way arround ^^
 [12:43:10]  <Linuxhippy> thanks for helping anyway :)
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[13:41:23]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: found the source of the malfunction after adding the two PCI ID to Debian's unique geode.ids:  PCI ID conflict at the device ID level, because "nsc" includes backported GX supppport.
 [13:42:43]  <Q-FUNK> the end result is that even though we have more up-to-date GX support, NSC being an existing package in Debian and featuring the same vendor+device ID in its nsc.ids, we have to make our driver un-support GX.
[13:43:09]  <Q-FUNK> so I just removed the PCI ID for NSC+GX from geode.ids
 [13:43:27]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm sure that will end up pissing off somebody
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[13:52:40]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: not really. the "nsc" driver includes backported GX support.
 [13:53:07]  <Q-FUNK> they won't have the latest and greatest GX support, but they will have something.
 [13:53:36]  <Q-FUNK> I'll still file a bug against the nsc package, asking them to remove tthose PCI ID
 [13:54:09]  <Q-FUNK> but this might not happen overnight
 [13:54:28]  <jcristau> when do you need it to happen?
 [13:56:33]  <Q-FUNK> ASAP
 [13:56:46]  <Q-FUNK> a package that includes support for Gx is already in unstable
 [13:57:38]  <Q-FUNK> should we have versioned Conflicts to safeguard this?
 [13:57:46]  <Q-FUNK> on both packages?
 [13:57:52]  <jcristau> why?
 [13:58:35]  <Q-FUNK> to ensure that it won't barf if someone installs a version of geode thta supports devices with conflicting ID on a system with an older nsc package there
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[14:00:08]  <Q-FUNK> either that, or I simply stop including support for GX hardware in geode.ids until our driver has merged back support for older geodes.
 [14:00:33]  <Q-FUNK> then, you wouldn't need to play with nsc at all
 [14:01:10]  <Q-FUNK> instead, the day geode merges support for older products back, my transitional will make the "nsc" and "cyrix" drivers be removed automatically.
 [14:01:22]  <jcristau> iirc the problem is that there are two devices with same pci id but different drivers, right?
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[14:04:24]  <Q-FUNK> it's more complicated than that
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[14:05:36]  <Q-FUNK> two drivers cover Geode chips produced by two different vendors at different times and thus share the same PCI vendor ID. 
[14:06:16]  <Q-FUNK> to make things more complicated, some well-intentioned person at X.org decided to import GX support into the old nsc driver.
 [14:06:36]  <Q-FUNK> so now, we end up with two drivers covering the exact same hardware.
 [14:07:05]  <marcheu> this is darwinism at work
 [14:07:47]  <Q-FUNK> nsc covering old gx1 hardware, plus backported support for gx2 (which the successor to nsc, amd, calls gx).
 [14:08:31]  <Q-FUNK> geode covering new lx hardware and offering the latest codebase to support gx (a.k.a. gx2)
 [14:09:16]  <jcristau> what a wonderful mess
 [14:09:21]  <Q-FUNK> indeed
 [14:10:49]  <Q-FUNK> anyhow, IIRC, nsc (and cyrix, which is exactly the same code as nsc, prior to the backported GX support) both lack the bits to compile under X 1.5, IIRC
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[14:12:48]  <Q-FUNK> the only good news is the distant plan to completely eliminate the nsc and cyrix drivers, by importing support for them into the cleaner codebase of geode.
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[16:50:40]  <Linuxhippy> Is there any benefit for creating many GlyphSets for different attributes (size, font, ...) compared to a single one?
 [16:50:49]  <Linuxhippy> except that lookup in application-code is maybe simpler
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[20:23:39]  <jcristau> airlied: you pinged me earlier?
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[03:26:32]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:48:52]  <ZiggyFish> hello
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[10:52:11]  <PauloZanoni> on these newer video cards, with more than 1 output, would it be possible to open an xserver for each output? would it require huge changes on the driver or is it already possible with some card?
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[11:06:56]  <daniels> PauloZanoni: it would require pretty large-scale changes and kernel modesetting, yeah
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[11:08:13]  <marcheu> daniels: some drivers have reimplemented zaphod, though
 [11:08:41]  <jcristau^ that's still just one x server
 [11:10:08]  <marcheu> hmm why would you want 2 xservers ?
 [11:10:32]  <jcristau> i don't know, ask PauloZanoni :)
 [11:10:52]  <daniels> presumably multiple sessions
 [11:10:55]  <jklehm1> multi headed x
 [11:10:57]  <jklehm1> =P
 [11:11:08]  <marcheu> daniels: ah right
 [11:12:59]  <jcristau+ any progress on 1.4.1, or too busy?
 [11:15:17]  <daniels^ busy + sick
 [11:15:30]  <daniels> + elisa helpfully cut off my dsl for 3 or 4days
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[11:17:15]  <papillon81> dberkholz: ping
 [11:17:35]  <jcristau> daniels: nasty..
 [11:18:14]  <daniels> i'll check it out when i get back on sunday though
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[11:29:12]  <tjaalton> daniels: damn elisa..
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[11:33:55]  <chpo_work> hi, i got trouble whith kdrive, i ve got nothing on the screen
 [11:34:12]  <chpo_work> maybe it is because of the alpha channel
 [11:34:12]  <daniels> tjaalton: better than sonera ;)
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[11:34:29]  <chpo_work> how can i fix it?
 [11:34:30]  <daniels^ why are you using kdrive? even so, which kdrive server are you using?
 [11:34:40]  <chpo_work^ Xfbdev
 [11:35:11]  <daniels> well, alpha won't come into it.  xfbdev should generally work fine, but xorg's fbdev driver is far better tested.
 [11:35:19]  <tjaalton^ does sonera offer fiber to your house? 10/10 is ~34e/mo, 100/10 ~45e/mo
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[11:35:47]  <tjaalton> daniels: that should be slightly more reliable ;)
 [11:35:53]  <chpo_work+ and it is on arm arch
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[11:36:23]  <chpo_work> my fbdriver works in argb 32 bits
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[11:37:05]  <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: sonera has been bugging me to buy faster services from them. they call about once a month.
 [11:37:15]  <tjaalton^ heh
 [11:37:20]  <Q-FUNK^ something tells me that they are trying to get rid of all slow connections.
 [11:37:55]  <daniels+ huh, sonera do fiber? i'm on elisa dsl, ere50/mo for 24/1.  i'll check if fiber's there.
 [11:38:24]  <tjaalton> Q-FUNK: comparing 1/0.5 DSL (25e/mo) to 10/10 is a no-brainer, but let's just say that every ISP suck hard
 [11:38:36]  <daniels> chpo_work: well, xfbdev will only be feeding rgb.  if you really must have argb on your base fb for some reason, you'll probably need to use wfb.
 [11:39:05]  <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: they don't suck hard enough.  I don't come. :-P
 [11:39:16]  <tjaalton> *cough*
 [11:40:21]  <chpo_work> daniels: it is not possible to force alpha channel?
 [11:40:51]  <chpo_work> and if it s not, how do i use wfb?
 [11:41:55]  <daniels^ only with wfb.  use wfbScreenInit instead of fbScreenInit in hw/kdrive/src/, and that'll give you setup pointers which let you set functions to read/write.  you can use this to force alpha to 1.
 [11:42:44]  <chpo_work^ ok, i will try that, thanks for help
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[11:47:12]  <daniels> np
 [11:47:30]  <daniels> chpo_work: but seriously, i can strongly recommend moving to xorg instead of kdrive.  if you try it out and find anything that prevents you from doing so, please let me know.
 [11:48:40]  <chpo_work^ but xorg is to heavy, it is for embedded
 [11:48:58]  <CosmicPenguin> how embedded?
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[11:49:33]  <chpo_work> it is for an omap platform
 [11:51:01]  <daniels^ well, put it this way, i'm the x maintainer at nokia, and i'm migrating to xorg quite soon ;)
 [11:51:22]  <daniels> there are some bits which can be slimmed down quite trivially, others which need a bit of work which will be done, but the difference is probably not as huge as you think it is
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[12:43:58]  <dr-xorg> crossbuilder: pling ->
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[13:41:16]  <owen> idr: ping
 [13:41:23]  <idr^ Hello.
 [13:41:38]  <owen> you see my email?
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[13:43:03]  <idr> owen: Where / when?
 [13:43:27]  <owen> an half hour ago, to your us.ibm.com
[13:43:36]  <owen> having some issues with xf86-video-xgi
 [13:44:19]  <idr^ Hrm...I don't see it.  It's not in the spam bin either.  Weird.
 [13:44:26]  <idr> What's going on?
 [13:44:41]  <owen> let me pastebin it
 [13:44:46]  <idr^ k
 [13:46:06]  <owen> http://pastebin.ca/1034245
 [13:47:17]  * idr shakes an angry fist at ajax...
 [13:48:12]  <idr> owen: Submit a bug that xf86-video-xgi won't build now that xf1bpp.h and xf4bpp.h have been removed.
 [13:48:23]  <owen> ok
 [13:48:44]  <idr^ I should be able to get to it soon.  If I don't, it should be pretty easy to fix.
 [13:49:00]  <idr> Just remove the includes, and repeatedly remove whatever breaks after that.
 [13:49:15]  <owen> ok
 [13:49:28]  <idr> Wait just a tick...
 [13:49:59]  <idr> Okay.
 [13:51:15]  <idr> owen: It also looks like configure.ac needs some fixing too.  It's not detecting libpciaccess correctly.  That's causing the PciTag error.
 [13:51:23]  <owen> ahh yeah
 [13:51:33]  <owen> i didn't think the PciTag stuff was related
 [13:53:53]  <idr> mattst88: Any idea where there are no resource0 files on Alpha Linux?
 [13:54:12]  <mattst88> unfortunately no.
 [13:54:16]  <idr> s/where there/why there/
 [13:54:19]  <idr> :(
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[13:55:52]  <mattst88> is that holding you up?
 [13:56:53]  <idr^ I've patched the xserver so that it builds and starts.
 [13:57:08]  <mattst88> btw, you mean /sys/devices/pci<id>/resource ?
 [13:57:28]  <idr^ However, it dies when the driver tries to map it's bars.
 [13:57:39]  <owen^ it compiles clean other than the pci stuff
 [13:57:54]  <owen> which can you provide a hint for?
 [13:58:10]  <owen> i'm certaintly not an autoconf magician
 [13:58:13]  <idr> mattst88: No, I mean /sys/devices/bus/pci/devices/<device id>/resource[0-n]
 [13:58:49]  <idr> There should be an mmap'able resource# file for each BAR.  libpciaccess uses that on Linux to provide access to the BARs.
 [13:58:59]  <idr> Without that, you're toast.
 [13:59:24]  <mattst88> possibly a kernel problem?
 [13:59:56]  <idr^ It's possibly something that nobody ever got around to implementing on Alpha.
 [14:00:05]  <idr> But yeah, the kernel has to provide it.
 [14:00:30]  <mattst88> grr :(
 [14:00:57]  <owen> idr: and thats the only place where pXGI->PciTag doesn't want to compile
 [14:01:09]  <idr^ Hmm...I'll take a quick look.
 [14:01:41]  <mattst88^ are you going to file a kernel bug report or do you think it's something you can fix yourself?
 [14:01:45]  <owen> idr: thanks
 [14:03:18]  <idr> mattst88: My guess is that it would require much more time than I have to spend on it.
 [14:03:56]  <idr> Before filing a bug, I'd be inclined to ask around and find out *why* the resource# files aren't available.
 [14:04:05]  <mattst88> so as it appears now, if the kernel provided the resource[n] files, your code would work?
 [14:04:21]  <idr^ Presumably.
 [14:05:09]  <idr> The other approach is to add code to libpciaccess to fall back to using /dev/mem when the resource# files aren't available.
 [14:05:40]  <idr> But I doubt I'll have the spare cycles for that either. :(
 [14:05:59]  <mattst88> fallback code would presumably be slower but more compatible?
 [14:06:30]  <idr^ No slower.  Just more ugly ass code that doesn't belong in user space.
 [14:07:00]  <idr> /dev/mem is what the pre-libpciaccess xserver uses.
 [14:07:16]  <mattst88> from the top of your head, what other X developers have or have supported alpha in the past that I may be able to harass?
 [14:08:09]  <idr^ No clue.  git-log hw/xfree86/os-support/bus/axpPci.c should give a good starting point.
 [14:08:19]  <mattst88> btw, I'd be more than happy to shoot a mail to lkml about the resource files, but I doubt I'd have all the info right
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[14:10:43]  <mattst88> looks like Jay Estabrook would be a good person to ask
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[14:14:22]  <owen> idr: i ripped out that one pci bit
 [14:14:34]  <owen> (EE) No devices detected.
 [14:14:34]  <owen> Fatal server error:
 [14:14:34]  <owen> no screens found
 [14:14:44]  <owen> probably related?
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[14:19:17]  <mattst88> idr, do you mind if I attach out IRC conversation to an email to Jay Estabrook?
 [14:21:18]  <idr^ Yeah, that's fine.
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[14:25:28]  <idr> mattst88: I also added my patch to the bug report.
 [14:26:05]  <idr> owen: That doesn't seem likely.  All removing that PCI bit should do is make it mis-detect the memory size.
 [14:26:11]  <mattst88> good to know; I gave him the bug number in my email
 [14:26:42]  <idr> owen: What's the 'lspci -vvv -n' output for that card?  (pastebin, plz)
 [14:26:56]  <owen> one sec
 [14:27:00]  <owen> someone turned off the box
 [14:27:05]  <owen> and is going to get yelled at
 [14:29:41]  <owen> christ, we have 20+ units and the photo people take the one that I'm f'ing using.
 [14:31:15]  <idr^ I just pushed a (completely untested) fix for the PciTag issue.
 [14:31:15]  <mattst88^ officially, this bug blocks the new xserver release
 [14:31:32]  <mattst88> but will they really postpone a release to fix X on a platform like alpha?
 [14:31:32]  <owen> idr: thanks
 [14:32:11]  <idr> mattst88: Only if someone actually steps up to fix it.  Even then it's only "maybe."
 [14:33:10]  <idr> Then again, it's not my call to make.  You might ping ajax.
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[14:40:11]  <owen> idr: ok, it builds just by removing the two old header files
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[14:49:54]  <idr> Unnecessary include files for the win.
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[14:59:17]  <owen> idr: lspci -vvv http://pastebin.ca/1034315
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[15:44:02]  <idr> owen: Arg...I just saw your e-mail.  Use idr@ instead.
 [15:44:09]  <idr> The problem is you're using the wrong driver.
 [15:44:25]  <idr> You need to use xf86-video-xgixp.
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[15:52:38]  <elbeardmorez> hi. can anyone comment on X's 'sharevts' option which makes the x instance's cpu load hit 100% and stay there until killed. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-April/009108.html addresses a 'sharevts cpu load' issue and I was wondering whether it's possible that only ubuntu's xserver package gets that patch? has anybody heard of the problem?
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[16:27:47]  <owen> idr: with xgixp, i get this error...
 [16:28:31]  <owen> XGI-XGIScreenInit()...
 [16:28:31]  <owen> FATAL: Module xgi not found.
 [16:28:31]  <owen> (EE) [drm] drmOpen failed.
 [16:28:31]  <owen> (EE) XGI(0): [dri] DRIScreenInit failed.  Disabling DRI.
 [16:28:31]  <owen> Jong-After-XGIInitMC-7
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[16:32:37]  <idr> owen: You *MUST* have the xgixp DRM loaded for the 2D driver to work.
 [16:33:00]  <idr> Right now, the xgixp DRM in only in DRM GIT>
 [16:36:31]  <owen^ kernel module?
 [16:36:56]  <idr^ yeah
 [16:37:50]  <owen> what git "module" is that? mesa/drm?
 [16:39:47]  <idr^ It's in git://git.freedesktop.org/git/mesa/drm
 [16:39:58]  <owen> thanks
 [16:40:06]  <idr^ You'll need to build in linux-core with 'make DRM=xgi'
 [16:40:19]  <owen> k
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[17:14:47]  <owen> idr/anyone, is there a fairly simple way to take DRM git and include it in a normal kernel build
 [17:15:17]  <owen> wtf..
 [17:15:26]  <owen> /devel/xorg_update/drm/linux-core/xgi_cmdlist.c:325: error: nbsTRUEhat undeclared (first use in this function)
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[17:21:35]  <owen> idr: it works! apparently all the colors are goofed
 [17:21:48]  <owen> i bet i can blame my CurrentColorDepth fixes
 [17:24:29]  <idr^ All the colors?
 [17:24:34]  <owen> not sure
 [17:24:56]  <idr^ There used to be some problems with software rendered colors, but I fixed that 2 weeks ago.
 [17:25:36]  <elbeardmorez> is there anybody who can talk about xserver's sharevts option before I submit a bug?
 [17:26:13]  <idr> tilman: You have an opinion about bug #15935?
 [17:26:29]  <idr> owen: Are you on actual Bimini hardware?
 [17:26:31]  <owen^ getting a picture right now
 [17:26:36]  <owen> yes
 [17:26:46]  <idr^ What happens when you exit the X server?
 [17:26:51]  <owen> black screen
 [17:27:01]  <owen> the problem is the hw is 1500 miles away
 [17:27:18]  <idr^ ouch.
 [17:27:23]  <owen> and my assistant is at a conference, so i'm having to rely on the receiptionist and book keeper for details
 [17:27:45]  <idr^ ouch * 2.
 [17:28:05]  <owen^ but they say it goes back to a black screen
 [17:28:16]  <owen> no idea if the login is displayed
 [17:28:46]  <idr^ On my system here (a PowerMac with the XP10 and an Nvidia card for booting), the system tanks when exiting the X server.
 [17:28:59]  <owen^ hardlock tank?
 [17:29:06]  <idr^ I had been assuming this was because of some multicard interaction.
 [17:29:06]  <owen> it seems to be fine here
 [17:29:22]  <owen> i can kill/restart X and keeps looking the same
 [17:29:27]  <idr^ Hardlock tank.  Within a couple minutes the system fans would spin up to full speed.
 [17:29:36]  <idr> Okay.  whew!
 [17:30:03]  <owen> so i guess we just need to find the endian bug :)
 [17:30:12]  <owen> which is what it looks like to me
 [17:30:23]  <owen> and i remember ben saying you had some problems with that at one point
 [17:30:39]  <idr^ Oh man...you wouldn't even believe it.
 [17:30:59]  <idr> But it should be working now.  What sort of CurrentColorDepth changes did you make?
 [17:31:24]  <idr> And what version of the X server is this?  My fixes require libwfb.
 [17:31:30]  <owen^ ugly hack... i defined it, and BE_SWAP, just assumed 24bit depth...
 [17:31:34]  <owen> 1.4.99.901
 [17:31:40]  <owen> which i think should be libwfb
 [17:31:58]  <owen> from fedora 9
 [17:32:22]  <owen> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libwfb.so
 [17:32:33]  <owen> any xorg.conf magic to make it use libwfb?
 [17:32:48]  <idr^ You should be fine there.  Hm...
 [17:35:18]  <idr> BE_SWAP in the xgixp driver?  That should need any changes for different bit depths.
 [17:35:28]  <idr> BE_SWAP in the xgi driver might...
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[17:36:59]  <owen> idr: oh, i didnt touch the xgixp
 [17:37:13]  <owen> its Friday, been a long week :)
 [17:37:18]  <idr> heh...
 [17:37:48]  <owen> i tried both 16/24 bit depths, same thing both places
 [17:38:11]  <owen> idr: using 2.6.22 + today's drm git if that makes a difference
 [17:38:19]  <owen> fb is offb
 [17:40:02]  <idr^ And xf86-video-xgixp is from today as well?
 [17:40:12]  <owen> yeah
 [17:40:17]  * idr makes sure he didn't forget to git-push...
 [17:40:58]  * idr bangs his head on the desk repeatedly.
 [17:41:15]  <idr> Eh-hem...
 [17:41:28]  <owen> hahaha
 [17:41:34]  <idr^ I just pushed the changes that make it use libwfb.
 [17:41:40]  <owen> ok, thanks
 [17:46:05]  <owen> idr: that works
 [17:46:12]  <idr> yay!
 [17:46:25]  <owen^ just have a picture quality issue
 [17:46:30]  <owen> but 90% sure thats a monitor issue
 [17:46:44]  <owen> older 23" HP monitor always a pain in the ass
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[17:47:13]  <owen> idr: so does this mean working 3d accel?
 [17:47:20]  <idr> ha-ha.
 [17:47:30]  <idr> owen: No.
 [17:47:42]  <idr> 2D accel, but no 3D.
 [17:47:45]  <owen> shucks, gonna have to play with the r300 drm stuff
 [17:48:20]  <idr^ It took a *year* for them to figure out that their hardware couldn't actually display a big-endian formatted framebuffer.
 [17:48:51]  <idr> There's a bit that enables it, but it is, apparently, non-functional.
 [17:49:06]  <owen^ heh, i remember messing with XGI briefly on an embedded project a few months ago
 [17:49:13]  <owen> we ended up using the Silicon Motion chip
 [17:49:28]  <owen> but the SM chip still behaved the same way...
 [17:49:41]  <owen> apparently if you arent using the PCI bus, that bit works
 [17:50:23]  <owen> xgi could never give me a straight answer
 [17:50:52]  <idr^ That's what happens when you sell engineering to ATI.
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[17:54:53]  <owen> idr: picture quality issue fixed too
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[18:08:22]  <owen> idr: it apparently works well
 [18:08:50]  <idr^ Just don't try to use the DVI port. :(
 [18:09:13]  <owen^ yeah, we found that out :(
 [18:09:26]  <owen> can we use two of these cards to get dual head?
 [18:09:53]  <owen> the customer that we did the matrox "work" for apparently wants to upgrade all their systems to these
 [18:10:14]  <idr^ Doubtful.  I think having more than one card in the system is what is causing the hard-lock.
 [18:10:24]  <owen^ ok
 [18:10:27]  <idr^ I'm working on dual-head, but I don't have an ETA.
 [18:10:38]  <owen^ ok
 [18:11:37]  <owen> we're a bit away from shipping hw
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[18:14:06]  <owen> idr: thanks again, time to go drink beer :)
 [18:14:13]  <idr^ Sounds good.
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[18:27:25]  <vignatti> elbeardmorez: yeah, I heard about that 'sharevts' bug some time ago
 [18:27:59]  <vignatti> I trace the problem and for some reason when we set -sharevts the fd do not blocks and always returns with 0 value
 [18:28:24]  <vignatti> this only occurs with kbd driver (and my machine is Linux)
 [18:29:00]  <vignatti> you can try evdev driver which should not report this problem. Good luck :)
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[18:52:18]  <elbeardmorez> vignatti: when the world needed a hero ..I thank you ..very very much ..worked a charm.
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[18:54:18]  <vignatti> elbeardmorez: np
[18:55:09]  <vignatti> whot: seems that Xephyr is broken with mpx's merge :/
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[19:20:45]  <superjamie> hi, is anybody who writes libxinerama around?
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[19:23:39]  <superjamie> i guess not, i'll send to the mailing list
 [19:25:00]  <alanc> libxinerama hasn't really changed much in a couple years, so there's not really anyone who writes it
 [19:25:14]  <alanc> but the mailing list is a good place to find the people who know about it
 [19:28:43]  <superjamie> thankyou
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[20:09:41]  <whot> vignatti: crap. thanks
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[20:14:00]  <vignatti> whot: i don't know if this help but the far 32e4a88ae613c7200d84d5621344b418b656346b commit works
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[20:45:50]  <whot> vignatti: you mean the next one broke it or it broke after that
 [20:46:49]  <idr> Okay...I've never seen that before...
 [20:47:10]  <idr> When I try to start X (from GIT), it dies with: xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open /dev/tty0 (No such file or directory)
 [20:47:25]  <idr> Sorry x, but ls disagrees.  /dev/tty0 is there.
 [20:47:35]  <idr> WTF?
 [20:48:10]  <whot^ seen that a few times. IIRC its wrong permissions/ownership on the Xorg binary
 [20:50:44]  <idr^ Thanks.
 [20:50:57]  <idr> It must be getting close to beer o'clock...
 [20:51:51]  <vignatti> whot: i don't know for sure
 [20:52:39]  <vignatti> the interesting thing here is that all rungs okay with a recent tree (64677f6a167a5bee99e5dfb599a3c3a6fb5dffe7) added with some input thread patches
[20:52:49]  <whot^ nevermind, fixed
 [20:52:53]  <vignatti> but it did't only with 64677f6a167a5bee99e5dfb599a3c3a6fb5dffe7
 [20:53:03]  <vignatti> whot: cool. what happened?
 [20:53:37]  <whot> in ActivateDevice, dummyDev was mostly uninitialised (except id). something later tried to dereference a pointer in dummyDev
 [20:57:21]  <whot> vignatti: http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/
 [20:57:37]  <whot> can't push ATM, have some other half-baken patch in the pipe
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[21:05:38]  <vignatti> whot: okay. just give 1 min. and I'll give a feedback..
 [21:14:25]  <vignatti> nop :(
 [21:14:34]  <vignatti> it stills hanging on mieqProcessInputEvents () at mieq.c:358
 [21:15:13]  <vignatti> I can start the Xephyr but when I move the mouse it segfaults
 [21:15:44]  <whot^ interesting. seems to work fine here, bar a number of [mi] errorfs
 [21:18:37]  <eboettcher> I seem to have a very large # of [mi] errors
 [21:20:07]  <whot^ yeah, the server is a bit too excited about priting them, should be reduced in priority
 [21:20:07]  <vignatti^ weird... i double checked all the env variables and etc.
[21:20:24]  <whot^ are your running new xephyr under old server?
 [21:20:38]  <vignatti^ well, I got to go now (beer time). I'll trace again tomorrow
 [21:20:40]  <vignatti> nop
 [21:20:49]  <vignatti> both pulled from git right now
 [21:22:21]  <whot^ k. I'll have a look in the arvo
 [21:25:17]  <eboettcher^ well I'm about to silence them
 [21:25:35]  <eboettcher> because I could care less about [mi] -- but I do want very verbose info from radeon sometimes
 [21:26:21]  <eboettcher> (which asks for level 4 per default)
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[21:48:31]  <sowrd> hello
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[00:58:34]  <dav7> hey, does X have a function to return the ID or whatever of the active window?
 [00:58:37]  <dav7> I'd be surprised if it didn't, so this is more a "which function name is it?" sorta question.
 [01:06:42]  <whot^ XGetInputFocus
 [01:07:46]  <dav7> yay
 [01:07:47]  <dav7> thanks :D
 [01:09:14]  <dav7> whot: does "window" in that function's context refer to top-level windows or controls as well?
 [01:09:44]  <dav7> from an abstract perspective I simply want to find out if a terminal window is focused on my display or not, and if it is, get the titlebar.
 [01:09:55]  <dav7> (which I'll be doing with shell scripting and xwininfo)
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[01:14:58]  <DrNick> XGetInputFocus will tell you the window that has input focus
 [01:15:25]  <DrNick> that isn't likely to be the highest-level application window
 [01:15:40]  <DrNick> and even then, it isn't necessarily the top-most window
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[05:21:25]  <whot> vignatti: xephyr works again, just had to clean some detritus.
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[06:57:16]  <papillon81> I get this here with the latest xorg git:
 [06:57:37]  <papillon81> (**) Logitech USB Mouse: always reports core events
 [06:57:37]  <papillon81> (**) Logitech USB Mouse: Device: "/dev/input/event5"
 [06:57:37]  <papillon81> (WW) Logitech USB Mouse: Don't know how to use device
 [06:58:32]  <papillon81> is something broken or do I have to change my config? it used to work with a slightly older version from git
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[07:18:52]  <whot> papillon81: looks like the driver can't parse the mouse's capabilities
 [07:20:05]  <whot> i.e. it can't find any axes/buttons and it can't find keys either
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[07:38:36]  <papillon81> whot: i solved it meanwhile by deactivating my synaptics driver which does not work with the recent xorg anyway
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[13:02:11]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
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[13:19:42]  <vignatti> whot: you rock dude. It works worderful here
 [13:20:19]  <vignatti> tbh, the host cursor in Xephyr not but meh..
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[14:51:00]  <elupus> any intel guys here? i'm trying to add wss support to the intel driver
 [14:51:32]  <elupus> wss being widescreen signalling
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[17:08:09]  <gustaf1> there is no change of finding a debian Xorg maintainer in here? please step forward, if so.
 [17:08:56]  <jcristau> pong
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[17:09:40]  <gustaf1> how wonderful
 [17:10:09]  <gustaf1> jcristau: xserver-xorg exists in experimental with version 1.4.99. what is the reason for this package?
 [17:10:39]  <jcristau> build testing, mostly
 [17:10:41]  <jcristau> why?
 [17:10:43]  <gustaf1^ since, I cannot seem to find _any_ (input or video) driver which is compatible, even in experimental... hence, xserver-xorg 1.4.99 can't be installed
 [17:10:59]  <jcristau> yeah, the updated packages aren't uploaded
 [17:11:17]  <gustaf1> ok. I rather badly would like 1.4.99 :/
 [17:11:21]  <jcristau> i put some of them at http://pkg-xorg.alioth.debian.org/7.4/ a while ago
 [17:11:24]  <gustaf1> well, "user" badly... so no interrest
 [17:11:38]  <gustaf1> oh
 [17:12:24]  <jcristau> but, no drivers in experimental yet, at least until i can update mesa and rebuild the server with dri/glx support
 [17:12:43]  <gustaf1> you can update mesa, if you ask me =)
 [17:13:02]  <jcristau> no, i can't
 [17:13:16]  <gustaf1> in experimental?
 [17:14:00]  <jcristau> yes. needs more time than i have.
 [17:15:49]  <gustaf1> ah.. damn it...i'm using some non-official ubuntu packages of mesa 7.1-git which seems to work.. well, I just hope xorg 7.4 (xserver 1.5) will be in experimental soon, but I understand that time is an issue
 [17:16:06]  <gustaf1> (i'm in deb sid amd64 btw)
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[18:26:26]  <arekm> dberkholz: did you backport swrast already?
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[20:41:43]  <whot> vignatti: what do you mean by host cursor in xephyr?
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[21:22:17]  <dberkholz> arekm: no, i'm hoping ajax puts ajax in 1.5
 [21:47:44]  <spstarr> I wanna see this DRI2 stuff
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[22:30:09]  <Ori_B> dberkholz: ajax put ajax in 1.5? huh?
 [22:30:26]  * Ori_B has mental images of Xorg running in Firefox
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[01:56:09]  <dberkholz> i'll let you figure that sentence out for yourself, based on the available context
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[05:43:39]  <arekm> dberkholz: hehe, I'm hoping for the same
 [05:45:03]  <arekm> ajax: swrast + new "rc" release would be really welcome 8)
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[10:02:08]  <Santi> hi, is there a known problem with X crashing a 2.6.25 kernel on startup? Possibly evdev related
 [10:08:55]  <saschahl^ X crashing the kernel? Or the kernel crashing X?
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[10:17:18]  <Santi> startup of X crashing whole system, but with a different setup just X crashes
 [10:18:19]  <Santi> depends on the X settings it seems, but if I try to figure out what the logic is I go insane
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[10:21:27]  <Santi> and it can work too, like now
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[17:18:40]  <vignatti> whot: ping
 [17:19:58]  <vignatti> host cursor is the way of Xephyr to reuses the cursor of its host server
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[17:35:59]  <vignatti> whot: please, take a look at this:
 [17:36:00]  <vignatti> http://web.inf.ufpr.br/vignatti/xorg/0001-kdrive-changes-ephyr-API-according-mpx-merge.patch
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[20:29:56]  <whot> vignatti: looks good
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[23:04:38]  <vignatti> whot: cool. So apply when you can cause I don't have access to fdo machines right now.
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[23:41:44]  <whot> vignatti: yeah, I have it in the pipe here
 [23:41:50]  <whot> will be pushed with the next one
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[03:28:29]  <dberkholz> did someone change the planet so it only shows summaries now?
 [03:30:23]  <dberkholz> i just tried adding my own personal feed and it was full text, but on the planet, it's cut off in the first paragraph
 [03:30:53]  <dberkholz> the post name links to planet.fd.o instead of linking to the post like everyone else's, too.
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[03:45:31]  <ajax> dberkholz: no, wordpress is just shit.
 [03:45:51]  <dberkholz^ could you flip my feed over to the atom one if you haven't had a chance yet?
 [03:45:55]  <dberkholz> that might work better
 [03:46:34]  <dberkholz> me.wp.com/feed/atom instead of just /feed
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[08:42:18]  <CE> Hi again
 [08:44:02]  <CE> is it possible using XRender/XTrapezoids to draw a line where line-segments don't overlap?
 [08:44:54]  <CE> when drawing 1px wide lines, I have the problem that lines do not look always as if they were of constant width
 [08:44:55]  <CE> http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxhippy/Cairo/photo#5207262578956837426
 [08:45:25]  <CE> the first lines are drawn using XDrawLine, the second with a trapezoid
 [08:45:30]  <CE> (and two for the caps)
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[11:40:16]  <JohnFlux> anholt: I'm just reading your paper - it's really useful - thanks
 [11:40:46]  <JohnFlux> Btw, Hey all! :)
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[12:37:49]  <tilman> idr: no
 [12:39:00]  <idr^ I assume that's in reply to my message from Friday about the G200SE stuff?
 [12:39:06]  <tilman> yes
 [12:39:10]  <idr> okay
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[15:21:22]  <PauloZanoni> I have a video card with a DVI and a VGA output, and I configued it to make a big xinerama (half of the screen with each output), and it worked correctly. But I was using a DVI monitor. Now I am using a VGA-to-DVI adapter and 2 vga monitors, and it doesn't work anymore (xrandr knows it has 2 outputs and knows tat the DVI is analogic, but the outputs are cloned and commands made to one change the other)
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[15:22:09]  <PauloZanoni> is there any known problem with vga-to-dvi adapters or maybe it's a proble with the driver?
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[15:44:47]  <geaaru> hi at all, i installed git version of xorg-server (now i can use compiz with x200m card) but i have a problem with openoffice and skype... with update i can't see chars of menu. Is problem connect to a xorg library or font?
 [15:45:22]  <geaaru> can anyone help me to understand how can i resolve problem? thanks in advance
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[16:04:35]  <vignatti> krh: cool. Thanks for that tip of uinput dude
 [16:07:52]  <krh^ no prob - was it useful?
 [16:13:14]  <vignatti^ definitely
 [16:13:33]  <vignatti> different from my module it can emulate any kind of device/event in a flexible way
 [16:16:07]  <krh^ nice
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[17:51:13]  <jaclinuxhelp> somebody working on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444328 bug  for intel driver ?
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[20:26:16]  <dberkholz> could someone get me access to the planet so i can try to fix it?
 [20:26:41]  <dberkholz> somehow my feed works perfectly everywhere else but there
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[20:39:52]  * cjb wonders if emacs handles mpx well.
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[03:23:32]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[06:46:19]  <bertf> Hi. Where can I find information on the Composite extension? I'm developing an app that looks completely transparent as soon as Composite is enabled, and I'd like to fix it. Google didn't help me this time.
 [06:47:16]  <MrCooper^ it's probably picking up the depth 32 visual (which has an alpha channel)
 [06:47:54]  <bertf^ possible - so should I force a 24 bpp visual?
 [06:48:28]  <MrCooper^ does setting the environment variable XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 for running the problem work around the problem?
 [06:48:42]  <MrCooper> err, 'running the program'
 [06:48:45]  <bertf^ I'll try. sec.
 [06:52:03]  <bertf> no change :/
 [06:53:06]  <bertf> this is running in Xephyr, X.org v 1.3.0
 [06:54:03]  <MrCooper> that's oldish, can you try a newer version?
 [06:55:29]  <bertf> not easily ... but the problem does not appear to be th X server, just what the app is doing. it has been reported from machines running newer versions, too
 [06:57:09]  <bertf> I'll see if I can force a 24 bit visual, or pixmaps (we're using pixmaps for drawing)
 [07:03:55]  <soren> Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but (unless DontZap is set, of course) it shouldn't be possible for an X client to do anything that would make ctrl-alt-backspace not kill the X server, should it?
 [07:07:00]  <bertf> MrCooper: Yay! I changed it to prefer depth 24 over 32, and it works :) Unfortunately the primary target machine has no 24 bpp visual, only 16 and 32. Well, will see what I can do there. thanks anyway
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[07:13:22]  <MrCooper> bertf: I think basically you should skip visuals where the colour components you're interested in don't add up to the depth
 [07:16:01]  <bertf^ yes .. but I need to make sure we still get a visual ...
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[10:38:27]  <maniac103> hi guys, got a question regarding XSetWindowBackground ... if I do exactly that on a mapped window, which is unmapped later on; is the window supposed to be automatically filled with the set pixel color on subsequent map events?
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[13:19:42]  <JohnFlux> There's a XPutImage  to blit a pixmap - is there an equivalent to put the image, but vertically flipped?
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[13:41:17]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: howdy! any comment on how to handle the PCI ID conflict?  should we shuffle the milestones or should I just produce a quick patch to make Debian/Ubuntu's -nsc and -cyrix packages stop matching GX2?
 [13:41:51]  <CosmicPenguin> I have no comment
 [13:41:57]  <CosmicPenguin> whatever the distributions want to do is fine by me
 [13:42:45]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [13:42:55]  <Q-FUNK> so we keep the current release schedule then?
 [13:43:57]  <CosmicPenguin> As far as the code is concerned, probably
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[13:44:56]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [13:45:06]  <CosmicPenguin> Thats not to say that somebody else can't do the merger
 [13:45:18]  <Q-FUNK> indeed so
 [13:45:20]  <CosmicPenguin> but personally, I think I want to get RandR 1.2 out of the way
 [13:45:43]  <Q-FUNK> Randr first, XO next?
 [13:46:02]  <CosmicPenguin> no
 [13:46:16]  <CosmicPenguin> XO is first
 [13:46:19]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [13:46:26]  <CosmicPenguin> any day now, assuming I can figure out how to do the GPG key dance
 [13:46:29]  <Q-FUNK> I just got an XO at LinuxTag to test my build against
 [13:47:03]  <Q-FUNK> I'll first have to learn how to replace the default OS with Debian's custom install CD.
 [13:47:47]  <Q-FUNK> but basically, I soon should be in a position to A/B test and to build a separate target for the XO on Debian/ubuntu.
 [13:48:43]  <Q-FUNK> for the GPG dance, I'd guess that you run into the same problem as me:  SSH key in excess of 1024 characters per line
 [13:48:53]  <CosmicPenguin> no - my key never made it into the account
 [13:49:03]  <Q-FUNK> hmm.. ok
 [13:49:22]  <Q-FUNK> any other mailserver e.g. at home that you could use for the GPG dance?
 [13:50:02]  <CosmicPenguin> Like I said, my GPG key was never attached to my account - can't verify against signatures that don't exist
 [13:50:17]  <Q-FUNK> oh.  this is more serious, then.
 [13:50:35]  <Q-FUNK> daniels should be able to help.
 [13:50:51]  <Q-FUNK> but if you must, pitch the diff over here. I can merge it.
 [13:51:03]  <CosmicPenguin> You should have it
 [13:52:05]  <Q-FUNK> the OLPC diff for 2.10.0 ?
 [13:52:08]  <Q-FUNK> where?
 [13:52:27]  <CosmicPenguin> I thought I sent it to you
 [13:52:33]  <Q-FUNK> hmm... nope
 [13:52:35]  <CosmicPenguin> I'll send it again sometime today
 [13:52:39]  <Q-FUNK> probably sent it to warren
 [13:52:55]  <CosmicPenguin> Not directly, but he got his hands on it anyway.. :)
 [13:52:55]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [13:53:03]  <Q-FUNK> :)
 [13:54:04]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: anything left to merge from the XO tree then, for the X driver?
 [13:55:06]  <Q-FUNK> and do those XO-specific features require a -D option in CFLAGS to be enabled?
 [13:55:22]  <Q-FUNK> I'm trying to think of how to generate the separate package for Debian/Ubuntu
 [13:55:38]  <CosmicPenguin> no and no
 [13:55:42]  <CosmicPenguin> everything should be unified
 [13:56:07]  <Q-FUNK> how does it know when it's running on an XO and when it's not, then?
 [13:56:19]  <CosmicPenguin> it has its ways
 [13:56:23]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [13:56:34]  <CosmicPenguin> the DCON has a bunch of control files that it uses
 [13:56:50]  <Q-FUNK> so it should be transparent, then?  it looks for a DCON and if it finds one, it knows it runs on an XO?
 [14:03:06]  <CosmicPenguin> yep]
 [14:03:19]  <CosmicPenguin> it only needs it for the dcon control
 [14:03:36]  <CosmicPenguin> DPMS normally disables vsync and/or hsync
[14:03:43]  <CosmicPenguin> you turn off either to the DCON and it freaks out
 [14:03:44]  <Q-FUNK> and it uses DCON to control its peculiar kind of DPMS?
 [14:03:54]  <CosmicPenguin> so instead, we turn off the DCON directly
 [14:03:58]  <Q-FUNK> ah
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[16:01:06]  <CE> Hi
 [16:01:38]  <CE> does anybody know what exactly the "nbyte_images" parameter is for XRenderAddGlyphs
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[16:01:55]  <CE> it really challenges me, I thought its simply the amount of bytes the image has
 [16:02:18]  <CE> but with some exceptions, I almost always get BadLenght
 [16:02:56]  <CE> for a 10x10 glyph, I thought 100 should be ok
 [16:03:07]  <CE> but 100 throws badlenght, with 120 it works
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[16:22:02]  <aaronp> CE: IIRC, you have to pad the lines out to a multiple of four bytes.
 [16:22:50]  <aaronp> From the server: "size = gi[i].height * PixmapBytePad (gi[i].width, glyphSet->format->depth);"
 [16:22:57]  <CE> ah thanks :)
 [16:23:01]  <aaronp> So whatever PixmapBytePad returns for your server, that's the padding you need.
 [16:23:07]  <CE> does the start-adress also matter?
 [16:23:14]  <aaronp> It shouldn't.
 [16:23:27]  <aaronp> It gets packed through X protocol anyway.
 [16:23:47]  <CE> thanks a lot
 [16:24:11]  <CE> aaronp: I think a long time about accalerating traps using shaders
 [16:24:32]  <CE> I guess the devs at nvidia also thought about this possibility
 [16:24:39]  <CE> why is it so difficult?
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[16:25:53]  <CE> aaronp: just because of interest, no complain
 [16:26:10]  <CE> its just because tried something like this some time ago
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[16:30:57]  <aaronp> It's mostly the exact sampling grid specification.  It doesn't actually seem like it would be that hard to do in a shader.
 [16:31:03]  <aaronp> The tricky part is making it match Pixman.
 [16:32:55]  <CE^ ah, thanks :)
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[17:34:23]  <gregkh> ah, much better...
 [17:34:42]  <gregkh> so, anyone want to trust me to fix the broken build in the intel driver tree right now? :)
 [17:36:16]  <airlied^ how broken?
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[17:42:38]  <gregkh> airlied: does not build broken.
 [17:43:35]  <gregkh> i830_hwmc.c fails with problems finding a field in XvMCEnabled
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[18:15:31]  <tjaalton> is XInput properties something that is available already, just missing driver support, or is it part of the upcoming Xi goodness?
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[18:36:03]  <whot> tjaalton: what do you mean by XInput properties?
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[19:11:10]  <daniels> whot: device properties
 [19:11:11]  <daniels> tjaalton: upcoming
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[19:12:02]  <gregkh> airlied: ok, I got it to work, by editing config.h by hand, gotta love autoconf :(
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----- [2008-06-04] -----
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[00:53:50]  <tjaalton> daniels: ok, thanks for the info
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[01:53:42]  <compnerd> daniels: ping
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[03:26:26]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:43:22]  <daniels> compnerd: yes?
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[05:15:20]  <Ademan> is there a lib for parsing xorg.conf?
 [05:15:34]  <daniels> not a public one, no
 [05:15:42]  <Ademan> :-/
 [05:15:56]  <Ademan> that sucks...
 [05:16:06]  <daniels> i believe red hat/fedora does make libx86config available, though
 [05:16:12]  <Ademan> well... lex and yacc...here i come
 [05:16:57]  <Ademan> daniels: x86 or xfree86?
 [05:21:08]  <daniels> er, xf86
 [05:22:54]  <Ademan> ah thanks
 [05:23:01]  <Ademan> gonna poke around a bit
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[05:39:31]  <Ademan> daniels: it seems xf86misc or something like that, contains config parsing code... or so it seems at the moment anyways
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[05:56:16]  <daniels> Ademan: xxf86misc doesn't parse itself, but just gets part of it from the server.  it's a crap library.
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[06:00:53]  <Ademan> daniels: dammit... well thanks for the heads up
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[06:05:50]  <cbmuser> hello, anyone can give me a short help on the git-tree of xorg
 [06:05:56]  <cbmuser> ?
 [06:06:06]  <mraudsepp> you should probably just ask the question, instead of asking to ask
 [06:06:36]  <cbmuser> I am using xserver-xorg-video-intel from Debian/Unstable and I am expiriencing this bug: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15933
 [06:06:50]  <cbmuser> its not been fixed yet in unstable
 [06:07:19]  <cbmuser> but from the above posting it seems to be a trivial diff, so I'd like to apply it myself
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[06:08:17]  <cbmuser> the posting states the bug is fixed by reverting an earlier patch
 [06:08:25]  <cbmuser> but I'd like to see the diff
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[06:10:13]  <mraudsepp> just git show <commit id> after finding the id via git log and search (via hitting / and entering some keyword like "Add FIFO watermark" without quotes, commit log should mention it's a revert of that) for the revert
 [06:10:25]  <mraudsepp> git basics, not anything specific to xorg git tree really, I don't see
 [06:10:28]  <mraudsepp> lunch time
 [06:12:35]  <cbmuser> wow, thats easy
 [06:12:39]  <cbmuser> Thank You !
 [06:14:08]  <Ademan> daniels: well, ubuntu at least has xorgconfig.py which definitely parses xorg.conf, but i have no idea how well...
 [06:20:19]  <tjaalton^ that's part of guidance-backends, and being phased out
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[06:21:08]  <Ademan> tjaalton: that's exactly what they told me in #ubuntu-devel,  what's so wrong with guidance-backends ? and what's it being replaced with?
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[06:22:24]  <daniels> Ademan: why exactly are you trying to parse xorg.conf?
 [06:23:34]  <tjaalton+ it was used by the bulletproof-x fallback configuration, but we are about to rip it out and use the server defaults as much as possible
 [06:23:37]  <Ademan> daniels: i'm trying my hand at creating a configurator for mice with alotta buttons
 [06:24:28]  <tjaalton^ and tseliot actually wrote his own parser already, before I remembered that redhat had libxf86config :)
 [06:24:53]  <Ademan>
[06:25:01]  <tjaalton> so contact him
 [06:26:05]  <tjaalton> Ademan: um, trying to configure the mouse driver? what about evdev?
 [06:27:29]  <Ademan^ well, i'd like for changes to stick, which i assume means writing to xorg.conf
 [06:27:39]  <Ademan> ...but... of course... backing it up first :-)
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[06:29:44]  <daniels> Ademan: erm, what do you need t oconfigure?
 [06:29:59]  <daniels> tjaalton: libxf86config isn't red hat's, it's part of the server, it's just not exported because why do people need to mangle xorg.conf
 [06:30:10]  <tjaalton^ oh..
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[06:30:17]  <Ademan> scrollwheel, number of buttons, mouse type etc
 [06:30:19]  <tjaalton> yes, why would they :)
 [06:31:15]  <tjaalton> Ademan: umm, we are switching to input-hotplug anyway, so the default device is evdev which should get those mapped correctly
 [06:31:54]  <Ademan^ how far off is that? from what i could tell xinput-hotplug wasn't even all figured out yet, let alone implemented
 [06:32:16]  <tjaalton^ for intrepid
 [06:32:30]  <tjaalton> it's getting more mature
 [06:32:35]  <daniels> Ademan: scrollwheel works, number of buttons is automatically detected, so is mouse type ...
 [06:32:48]  <daniels> if you encounter any specific problems, please let us know and we'll try to let you know how best to solve them
 [06:34:02]  <Ademan> hrm
 [06:34:06]  <daniels^ input-hotplug has a couple of problems, but for mice, these tend to be simple coding issues (e.g. adding middle-button emulation to evdev) rather than anything infrastructural.
 [06:35:00]  <Ademan> can i stop xev from outputting mousemoves?
 [06:35:15]  <Ademan> ...without grep... ?
[06:35:37]  <daniels> you could just hack xev, if you were bored
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[06:35:47]  <Ademan>
[06:35:57]  <Ademan> i'd rather write a sed script that ate mousemove events
 [06:36:08]  <Ademan> just wondering
 [06:36:42]  <Ademan> er sorry, MotionNotify :-p
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[10:09:42]  <jg> daniels: do we have any precedent of an LGPL driver to date?  I can think of no good reason to forbid them anymore (as opposed to GPL, which would cause interactions between modules to be a headache...).
 [10:10:39]  <glisse^ avivo ddx was gpl iirc
 [10:11:32]  <daniels> avivo ddx was indeed gpl.  there's no precedent of lgpl and no particular reason to ban it, but we've still got the blanket mit/bsd policy, so that'd be something the foundation board would need to decide on, if someone actually had an lgpl driver to contribute.
 [10:12:21]  <jg^ I've had a conversation with a very interesting display vendor we don't have support for, and it appears to me it might make sense for that vendor.
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[10:13:03]  <jg> daniels: the other option is a piece of said driver being a binary blob, which I don't like at all, for said vendor.
 [10:14:18]  <daniels^ okay, well if they have an lgpl driver they want to contribute, then that's a discussion we can have when it appears.  not much point handwaving about future possibilities, though ...
 [10:15:43]  <jg^ dunno yet; I was mostly trying to get a sense of where the community was at right now.  As I've thought about that vendor's situation, I think making that concrete suggestion to them may make the most sense.
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[10:16:28]  <jg> and the display is *really* worth supporting, I believe, from having seen it being demo'ed and used.
 [10:16:32]  <daniels^ i don't think anyone would be opposed to it.  at the same time though, avivo was hosted on fd.o and developed alongside xorg.  with modular, it's pretty hard to notice the difference between internal and external.
 [10:18:06]  <jg^ yeah, that's what I thought.  In this case, lgpl makes the most sense from the concerns I heard and where that company's self interests are.
 [10:20:38]  <daniels> but yeah, just let us know when there's something concrete and we can discuss whether or not to change the policy in order to let the dp driver in.
 [10:20:46]  <jg> yup.
 [10:21:31]  <jg> I'll have the discussion with the vendor; thankfully, the person to have the discussion with is an old X contributor, so the ties are there and I'm not going to be starting from ground zero.
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[11:08:04]  <compnerd> daniels: hey, still around? having an interesting issue with X (git master) ... using the mouse driver for a synaptics touchpad, and if I attempt to move the mouse, it locks up both the keyboard and mouse
 [11:09:07]  <daniels^ the keyboard stops working as well? cool.
 [11:09:53]  <compnerd^ yeah ... its pretty cool ... but, to make it even cooler, if you wait like a minute or so, you can start typing again (but the mouse remains locked)
 [11:12:50]  <daniels> don't suppose you could attach gdb and work out what's going on when it's locked? is it just sleeping, or constantly processing events?
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[11:14:22]  <compnerd> hmm...can attempt it
 [11:15:33]  <compnerd> ah, bugger, I have it stripped, let me rebuild it
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[11:30:07]  <compnerd> daniels: hmm..actually, no, I wont ... I just realized that a) this is on my laptop which doesnt have a serial port b) by the time that I would be able to switch back to the vt to break in gdb, it would be too late
 [11:30:52]  <daniels> ssh?
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[12:17:45]  <compnerd> daniels: Ill have to disconnect for that, as the work network doesnt allow outbound ssh ... but Ill try that in a bit
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[13:09:20]  <cbmuser> hello, I am trying to compile the nouveau-dri module, I activated it in the configure.ac-file, then configure and make
 [13:09:30]  <cbmuser> I finally get a linker error:
 [13:09:32]  <cbmuser> Unknown type of argument:  nouveau_dri.so
 [13:09:32]  <Q-FUNK> jcristau: actually, the situation with PCI ID conflicts is even worse than I thought.  compare the contents for nsc.ids and cyrix.ids
[13:10:41]  <Q-FUNK> at the very least, debian/patches/01_gen_pci_ids.diff should skip the cyrix device IDs
 [13:13:08]  <Q-FUNK> bgoglin: actually, those PCI ID generation patches seem to be your work. ;)  it might work well to parse and echo for most drivers, but it causes a major mess between -geode, -nsc and -cyrix.
 [13:13:21]  <cbmuser> ok, found it
 [13:13:29]  <cbmuser> const __DRIextension *__driDriverExtensions is defined twice
 [13:14:07]  <cbmuser> once in src/mesa/drivers/dri/common/dri_util.c and in src/mesa/drivers/dri/common/nouveau/nouveau_screen.c
 [13:14:35]  <cbmuser> and it builts now
 [13:14:50]  <cbmuser> I think, I will file this as a bug
 [13:16:22]  <bgoglin> Q-FUNK: those patches are gravity's work actually, but he's busy
 [13:16:56]  <bgoglin> send all this to the bug report, I am gonna be almost offline for a week very soon
 [13:16:58]  <Q-FUNK^ hmm. ok.  mind me removing the patch from -nsc, at least, so that cyrix and -geode can be left alone?
 [13:17:25]  <Q-FUNK> I'll just produce a static nsc.ids instead.
 [13:17:25]  <bgoglin> so you think the server should _never_ use nsc by default ?
 [13:17:30]  <bgoglin> oh ok
 [13:17:52]  <bgoglin> that's probably fine
 [13:18:07]  <Q-FUNK> one that includes only ID numbers for non-cyrix and non-geode hardware.
 [13:18:17]  <bgoglin> ok
 [13:18:36]  <Q-FUNK> then I can re-introduce the GX2 ID into -geode.
 [13:19:33]  <Q-FUNK> I'll attach a debdiff to the bug.
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[13:32:41]  <Q-FUNK> bgoglin: patch added
 [13:32:54]  <bgoglin> ok
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[13:34:11]  <Q-FUNK> I'd add back GX2 support into -geode, now
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[13:39:04]  <Q-FUNK> anybody at debian that could pick up the patch, apply and upload?
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[17:19:53]  <jg> ping keithp
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[17:47:08]  <termitor> hello, sorry for my stupid ask , but , it's possible tu make gallium3d over network ?
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[17:55:37]  <vignatti> termitor: I think no one tried it so far. But you might be interested in Virtual GL
 [17:55:46]  <vignatti> http://www.virtualgl.org/
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[17:57:55]  <termitor> thank
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[19:16:18]  <Mikha> hey, in the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/symbols - file names are based on countries or languages?
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[19:25:16]  <jg> ping keithp
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[21:27:09]  <jg> quiet tonight...
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[21:49:32]  <jg> ping keithp
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[03:28:23]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:17:42]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
 [05:18:03]  <JohnFlux> is it possible to run xorg/kdrive into 32bit mode, when the screen itself is only 565 ?
 [05:18:50]  <JohnFlux> I'm developing a video driver.  it would be nice to try to have compositing etc, but the screen is only RGB565..  does that mean I just can't have an alpha channel?
 [05:20:16]  <daniels> you can run a completely composited environment with your root window as 16-bit, yeah.
 [05:22:26]  <JohnFlux^ How?  All my pixmaps will be in 565 mode, no?
 [05:22:38]  <JohnFlux> There's no room for an alpha channel
 [05:25:07]  <daniels^ not all your pixmaps, no.  render will offer additional visuals (including a8r8g8b8), and the compositor will flatten everything down to r5g6b5 as the last step.
 [05:25:44]  <JohnFlux^ the actual programs themselves - will they see the screen as 565 or 8888 ?
 [05:25:45]  <daniels> after all, most people have a depth 24 root window, where the 8 bits of alpha doesnt exist; the compositor takes it from depth 32 to depth 24.  so 16 isn't that much different.
 [05:26:04]  <daniels> JohnFlux: they'll pick whichever visual they prefer from 565 or 8888.
 [05:27:04]  <JohnFlux^ in my little test X app, I do:  int imageDepth = XDefaultDepth(display, screen_number);      and this returns 16
 [05:27:20]  <JohnFlux> is there something that I can do to use 32bpp instead, and have X convert to 565 ?
 [05:28:03]  <JohnFlux> in the hardware, everything is dealt with in 8888 format anyway
 [05:29:46]  <JohnFlux> hmm, I'll try the XListDepths  function
 [05:34:07]  <daniels> yeah, just pick the most appropriate visual.  there'll always be an 8888 visual around.
 [05:35:28]  <JohnFlux^ ooo.  so there is :)  7 Available depths: 1 4 8 15 16 24 32
 [05:36:09]  <JohnFlux> so, if I want to composite two screens together, I need to upconvert them all to 8888 right?
 [05:36:19]  <JohnFlux> uh, screens == windows
 [05:48:46]  <daniels^ you can composite an 8888 image and a 565 image together: the latter will just be assumed to have a constant alpha of 1.
 [05:53:25]  <JohnFlux^ Testing with a simple X program, if I call  XCreateWindow   with a depth other than 16, I get a BadMatch  x error
 [05:53:50]  <JohnFlux> If I test it on my 'real' computer, a depth other than 24 also gives a BadMatch error
 [05:54:25]  <JohnFlux> it doesn't like a depth which is different from the root window or something
 [05:59:23]  <JohnFlux> ah, maybe because I use CopyFromParent in the other parameters
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[06:25:12]  <chpo_work> hi, i got trouble with Xfbdev, it refuses all the connection
 [06:25:23]  <chpo_work> what have i done wrong?
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[06:25:57]  <JohnFlux> chpo_work: Xfbdev -ac   ? :)
 [06:26:28]  <chpo_work^ same problem, already tried
 [06:27:30]  <chpo_work> i got errors unable to open display and error Xlib : server refuse the connection
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[06:30:18]  <MrCooper> chpo_work: what does $DISPLAY contain?
 [06:30:52]  <chpo_work^ nothing, i try to export it with values :0 and :0.0
 [06:31:13]  <chpo_work> i have to go, ill be back in one hour
 [06:31:26]  <chpo_work> MrCooper: with the same result
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[07:19:31]  <JohnFlux> should it be possible to create a 32bpp window on a 16bpp display?
 [07:19:42]  <JohnFlux> I can't get it to work - i just keep getting BadMatch errors in XCreateWindow
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[07:28:16]  <JohnFlux> w000t!  i got it working!
 [07:28:26]  * JohnFlux hands out free hugs to everyone
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[08:03:12]  <chpo_work> i'm back, anyone got ideas for my problem?
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[08:10:41]  <whot> chpo_work: start the server, telnet to port 6000 + displaynumber, that'll tell you if the server started up and is listening
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[08:10:58]  <whot> chpo_work: if you can't connect, it's probably authorisation issues
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[08:12:01]  <chpo_work> whot: the server is running, I see the cross on the screen
 [08:13:13]  <whot> ah, well that's a hint usually :)
 [08:14:36]  <chpo_work^ and i dont have telnet
 [08:15:13]  <chpo_work> the Xserver is on an embedded system, if i want telnet, i have to cross compile it before
 [08:16:02]  <whot> ah. dunno then, sorry
 [08:16:22]  <chpo_work^ thanks for your help
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[10:08:46]  <chpo_work> i need help with kdrive, someone to help me?
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[10:12:57]  <MrCooper> chpo_work: does it work with DISPLAY=localhost:0 ?
 [10:13:07]  <chpo_work^ no
 [10:13:53]  <chpo_work> i got the same error
 [10:14:20]  <chpo_work> unable to open display and an error xlib:connection refused by server
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[10:15:18]  <chpo_work> i forget to say i m using the root acount
 [10:15:47]  <MrCooper> then it probably is some kind of authorization issue
 [10:15:47]  <chpo_work> and there is no user on the system
 [10:16:10]  <chpo_work> MrCooper: probably, but how to solve it
 [10:16:49]  <chpo_work> i got the same type of errors with xhost and xauth
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[10:35:31]  <chpo_work> there is a strace of xcalc : http://pastebin.com/m6029950a
 [10:36:15]  <chpo_work> maybe someone understand it
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[11:05:24]  <cbmuser> anyone can point me to the bugs listed for the ati-driver ?
 [11:05:55]  <cbmuser> I am having problems with a Radeon 9000 Mobility (RV250) since using version 6.8.0 from Debian Lenny
 [11:06:57]  <cbmuser> when starting X, the screen gets scrambled and the X-process takes 99% load
 [11:08:40]  <MrCooper^ http://bugs.freedesktop.org, product xorg, component Driver/Radeon
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[11:11:19]  <cbmuser> thanks
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[11:11:55]  <cbmuser> the weird thing also is, that the driver does not detect the hardware properly
 [11:12:41]  <cbmuser> when not specifying a driver in xorg.conf, it won't load "ati" but "vesa"
 [11:13:04]  <cbmuser> on a Radeon 7000 the auto-detection works without any problems
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[11:15:03]  <mraudsepp> doesn't debian have its own list of PCI IDs it looks at? *g
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[13:00:12]  <stukreit> anyone:  I have a system that doesn't use xf86/xorg.conf structure (for the time being, medium story).
 [13:00:59]  <stukreit> I want to inject an x86 Entity from a driver. I know this is not appropriate use, but it gets my system closer to ultimate goodness
 [13:04:37]  <stukreit> Is there some kind of "seeding" of the config database that needs to be done?
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[13:11:40]  <saschahl> what driver?
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[13:15:54]  <stukreit> its not _yet_ open. but we have an extension that needs to know what kind of graphics is there via xf86FindOptionValue()
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[16:03:43]  <jg> ping keithp
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[16:20:52]  <compnerd> daniels: around?
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[17:41:21]  <aaronp> I'm very tempted to push this change... http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/mesa-glxgears-fps.patch
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[17:42:49]  <airlied> aaronp: hehe... or daniels -iacknowledgethisisnotabenchmark
 [17:42:56]  <halfline> aaronp: a better change would be to make it print log10 (fps)
 [17:43:14]  <airlied> or rand%fps
 [17:43:41]  * CosmicPenguin is amused
 [17:43:42]  <halfline> then it just gives the order of magnitude of the frame rate which is actually sort of useful
 [17:44:44]  <marcheu> aaronp: I bet distros would revert it :)
 [17:44:53]  <daniels> airlied: the tragedy that -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark is that people would literally say on ubuntuforums, 'man i get 3200 fps' 'i typed glxgears -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark but i only get 2900fps!! wtf?'
 [17:45:14]  <compnerd> halfline: fine, then you can compromise and do log(fps)/log(rand()) :-)
 [17:45:28]  <marcheu> daniels: maybe -IAmAStupidMoron ?
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[18:02:17]  <marcheu> how far are we from multi-touch right now ? is there some work needed on the driver side to support simultaneous touch points as I think ?
 [18:05:51]  <daniels^ just needs hw drivers, really
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[18:06:25]  <marcheu> daniels: righto, so could an X.Org newbie try adding multi-touch support to a driver without needing wider changes ?
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[18:11:33]  <daniels> marcheu: should be pretty easy.  just modify it to create multiple devices and feed the co-ords into whichever device is appropriate.
 [18:11:43]  <daniels> (the latter part is the difficult one.  good luck!)
 [18:12:20]  <marcheu> ok, so the driver creates multiple devices, and sorts the events out to the right one
 [18:12:23]  <marcheu> sounds good
 [18:12:33]  <daniels> yep
 [18:12:44]  <marcheu> maybe the sorting out code would gain from being shared at one point
 [18:13:05]  <daniels> sure
 [18:13:10]  <daniels> when we have n > 0 drivers :)
 [18:13:19]  <marcheu> I'm all new to this Xinput stuff :)
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[18:38:59]  <whot> marcheu: look at people.freedesktop.org/~whot/xf86-input-diamondtouch.git
 [18:39:17]  <whot> does exactly that (the hw can detect 4 different users)
 [18:39:49]  <whot> the driver works fine, bar not being updated to last version of master yet
 [18:40:04]  <marcheu> ah, sounds good, I'll pass on that information, thanks
 [18:40:58]  <whot^ and multi-touch works if you consider multi-touch to be multi-point
 [18:41:09]  <whot> which is the current assumption by most implementations anyway
 [18:41:16]  <marcheu> what's the subtle difference ?
 [18:41:37]  <marcheu> between multi-touch and multi-point
 [18:42:21]  <whot^ if your touch is reduced to x/y coordinates of a point, then it ain't multi-touch
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[18:42:44]  <whot> marcheu: if your touch actually recognizes the area of the touch, then it's real touch. but hardly anyone does that right now
 [18:43:00]  <marcheu> ah ok
 [18:43:08]  <marcheu> people with fat fingers will be annoyed :)
 [18:43:36]  <whot> meh, if you're trying to operate traditional interfaces with your fingers, you're screwed anyway
 [18:44:00]  <whot> unless you're a 12 inch gnome with fingers that are just 1 px in diameter
 [18:44:27]  * whot runs to the bus
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[18:47:45]  <wereHamster> if I have a tiny build fix, where should I post it? Through bugzilla or can I send it to xorg@fdo?
 [18:48:27]  <daniels> either one is fine
 [18:48:43]  <wereHamster> or I could post it to a pastebin and hope someone here sees it and commit it?
 [18:50:32]  <daniels> your best bet is definitely the list or bz, given i'm going to sleep right now and don't have a clean tree anyway ...
 [18:50:51]  <wereHamster> it's for the intel driver, not the xserver..
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[18:51:38]  <wereHamster> well.. to the list it is :)
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[19:19:27]  <compnerd> daniels: got a few minutes?
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[19:29:46]  <jg> ping keithp
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[21:01:33]  <desrt> the xorg intel driver is currently busted
 [21:01:40]  <desrt> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel.git;a=commit;h=c2e2fe48113667c683c6e1e9b1237635c41c61c3
 [21:02:06]  <desrt> this commit removed the declaration of a local variable ('config') that is still used in the function in some #if cases
 [21:06:12]  <jbarnes^ yeah I think a fix got posted to xorg@
 [21:07:28]  <desrt> ah.  nice.
 [21:11:59]  <desrt> yay!
 [21:12:21]  <desrt> the evil bug is finally defeated
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[01:40:32]  <dagb> is gitweb severely underpowered, or is it just the network link?
 [01:42:43]  <airlied> use cgit :)
 [01:42:47]  <airlied> gitweb sucks.
 [01:45:06]  <dagb> but gitweb allows me to sort by age, which makes it (somewhat) possible to keep an eye on what happens where
 [01:46:24]  <airlied^ good point, but its slowness is mostly due to its crappyness :)
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[01:49:40]  <dagb> I guess I'll just have to bookmark the repos I care about with a cgit url. I guess an RSSfeed would be useful for this.
 [01:54:28]  <dberkholz> you could just subscribe to the commits list and filter on subject.
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[02:03:40]  <dagb> dberkholz: If it really, really mattered to me, I would. But it only matters enough to warrant keeping an eye on things via a web-browser.:-)
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[03:27:03]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:32:27]  <maniac103> if I have a window that has a background color set with XSetBackgroundColor(), do I have to XClearWindow() it on map to fill it with the color or is it filled automatically by the server?
 [04:33:15]  <daniels> it's filled automatically
 [04:33:26]  <maniac103> ok, then I have a Nvidia driver bug :-/
 [04:33:35]  <maniac103> http://www.picpaste.de/broken_switcher.png
 [04:34:11]  <daniels> so it's the bottom-right corner that should be clear, or?
 [04:34:17]  <maniac103> in the lower right corner, there's a triangle filled with the right color, but the rest of the background seems to be random window contents
 [04:35:11]  <daniels> unfortunately there's nought we can do about their driver ...
 [04:35:42]  <maniac103> yeah, I know :) I justed wanted to know if it might be an application bug and worked for the last two years by pure coincidence ;)
 [04:36:26]  <maniac103> aaronp: could you please have a look at the above? it's happening on both a 7600GT and a 7600Go here, on Fedora 9
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[05:09:47]  <maniac103> daniels: is there any way to read back the pixel value set by XSetWindowBackground? XGetWindowAttributes doesn't seem to cover it...
 [05:12:04]  <daniels^ XGetWindowAttributes with a value of CWBackPixel
 [05:12:10]  <daniels> or GWBackPixel
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[05:13:36]  <maniac103> but XGetWindowAttributes doesn't take a value mask (?)
 [05:14:01]  <daniels> ah
 [05:14:02]  <maniac103> and - as I understand it - background pixel value != backing_pixel
 [05:14:20]  <daniels> nope, XSetWindowBackground just calls XSetWindowAttributes with CWBackPixel
 [05:14:35]  <daniels> ah, hang on, i see what you're saying.  hm.
 [05:14:54]  <maniac103> (basically, I want to check if the bg pixel was correctly set)
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[05:16:43]  <daniels> looks like you might be right
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[05:19:08]  <CE> hi
 [05:20:01]  <CE> should I store glpyhs with vastly different dimensions in different GlyphSets?
 [05:20:16]  <CE> or should it be ok to use one glyphset for all glyphs?
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[05:28:50]  <CE> the reason I ask is because I don't know how xorg does position the glyphs in the server-side cache-pixmap
 [05:29:21]  <CE> is there one pixmap per glyphset?
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[05:30:45]  <MrCooper> CE: EXA has two caches, one for glyphs up to 16x16 and one for up to 32x32
 [05:32:08]  <CE^ are the caches per-glyphset or global?
 [05:32:17]  <MrCooper> global
 [05:32:54]  <CE> ah good ... so a single glyphset should be fine :)
 [05:32:56]  <CE> thanks a lot
 [05:33:56]  <MrCooper> np
 [05:35:34]  <MrCooper> CE: however, note that glyphs are processed in order, and switching between the caches is expensive (having to do it for each glyph would defeat the purpose of the caches)
 [05:39:03]  <CE> well, I have to draw what java requests, so thats out of my control :)
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[05:40:06]  <CE> so if I have a glyphset with e.g. 300 12x10 glyphs and 300 20x20 glyphs, where even id's are 12x10 and odd 20x20, rendering only even or odd IDs should be fine?
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[05:43:04]  <MrCooper> yes
 [05:47:27]  <CE> wonderful
 [05:47:29]  <CE> thanks
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[06:41:34]  <cbrill_> if anyone remebers ... I was the guy trying to relicense the synaptics driver to MIT in which I succeeded. Now I'd like to get the synaptics driver hosted on fdo ... could one help me to get it done?
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[06:41:45]  <cbrill_> I'd even voluteer to maintain the driver ... since the current maintainer seems to be MIA
 [06:42:42]  <mjg59^ No, you didn't
 [06:43:02]  <cbrill_^ who didn't agree?
 [06:43:05]  <mjg59> Me
 [06:43:24]  <cbrill_> but I'd start forking at the point before you commited anything
 [06:43:26]  <mjg59> But there's no issue with it being GPLed and hosted on fd.o
 [06:43:43]  <mjg59> Well, you could do that, but your driver would be worse as a result
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[06:43:52]  <mjg59> What benefit is there to it being MIT?
 [06:44:46]  <cbrill_^ I don't really care about the license. but from what I heard it can't be shipped along with xorg being GPL licensed
 [06:45:20]  <mjg59> It's unlikely to be part of the official Xorg release, but that's kind of irrelevant nowadays
 [06:45:53]  <mjg59> Modular X means the difference between being part of a release set and being what everyone ships is pretty uninteresting
 [06:45:57]  <saschahl> why is it unlikely? Why can't we make it part of official xorg?
 [06:46:23]  <cbrill_> mjg59, all I want is to have it hosted on fdo so that if the API/ABI changes it will get updated
 [06:46:25]  <mjg59> Because people want Xorg to be MIT-or-more-free
 [06:46:39]  <mjg59> Being hosted on fdo really isn't a problem
 [06:47:23]  <cbrill_^ are your contributions in latest git?
 [06:47:28]  <mjg59> Yes
 [06:47:31]  <mjg59> Well
 [06:47:41]  <mjg59> It's possible that one isn't, because it was sent after upstream vanished
 [06:48:06]  <mjg59> That was to automatically enable circular mode on circular pads
 [06:48:32]  <cbrill_^ what where your contributions?
 [06:48:56]  <cbrill_> the "corner coasting" stuff?
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[06:49:12]  <mjg59> Automatically fitting the pad resolution to the hardware
 [06:49:23]  <mjg59> WIthout that, you need manual configuration on ALPS
 [06:49:26]  <mjg59> And Apple
 [06:50:08]  <cbrill_^ I can't seem to find them in latest git ... strange :-/
 [06:50:25]  <cbrill_> or maybe I'm just blind ....
 [06:50:53]  <cbrill_> could you say when you added them?
 [06:51:16]  <mjg59> May 17
 [06:51:29]  <mjg59> I sent the circular pad support last August
 [06:51:37]  <cbrill_^ ah! found it :-)
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[07:20:58]  <daniels> there really is crap-all difference between being in the official module set and not.  there are very few input drivers we actually care about, and most of the ones in the tree we don't.
 [07:26:56]  <cbrill_^ does this mean there is no interest in hosting the synaptics driver at fdo?
 [07:27:34]  <daniels^ more than happy to host the driver at fdo, yes.  if xorg license policy is changed, we'll be happy to have it as part of xorg.  but at the moment, xorg doesn't allow gpl drivers.
 [07:27:51]  <mjg59> But it can go on fdo even if it's GPL, right?
 [07:28:30]  <daniels> right
 [07:28:33]  <daniels> just like avivo
 [07:33:25]  <cbrill_^ I opened bug 16253 to get it hosted on fdo :-)
 [07:34:38]  <daniels> rocking
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[09:18:28]  <jcristau> ajax: any chance you could push your v4l 0.2.0 changes to git?
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[09:41:55]  <daniels> compnerd: hi
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[10:05:56]  <JohnFlux> could I run compiz on the kdrive? :)
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[10:07:35]  <mraudsepp> could you run your system with xorg?
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[10:13:29]  <JohnFlux> mraudsepp: I'm writing a driver for kdrive.  I was wondering what apps would test the composite stuff
 [10:13:48]  <JohnFlux> I want a test app to make I sure I'm implementing the hardware acceleration functions correctly :)
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[10:25:47]  <whot> JohnFlux: glxgears?
 [10:25:52]  <mraudsepp+ ok. Do you know the state of kdrive maintenance?
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[10:27:53]  <JohnFlux> mraudsepp: I guess ask keithp about that.
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[10:29:07]  <jcristau> i think 'unmaintained except for xephyr' is pretty close
 [10:29:11]  <mraudsepp> JohnFlux: the state, as heard from this channel, is that daniels has been somewhat maintaining it for Nokia N810 and co tablets (he is the x maintainer for nokia), but very soon he will stop that and convert to using xorg as well. Xorg can be quite as small as kdrive after some work.
 [10:29:49]  <mraudsepp> so if you want to be the kdrive maintainer in the future, go ahead ;)
 [10:30:22]  <mraudsepp> I'd suggest xorg with the assumption it can be made even leaner soon (it already can be in the 1-3MB area, I believe)
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[10:33:42]  <JohnFlux> mraudsepp: hmm, interesting
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[11:52:48]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
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[11:53:28]  <JohnFlux> kdrive supports composite etc, but how can I find the API for this?
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[11:59:28]  <fredrikh> JohnFlux: i think you have to be a bit more specific...
 [11:59:48]  <fredrikh> are you writing a kdrive server?
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[12:07:48]  <JohnFlux> fredrikh: hi, sorry
 [12:07:59]  <JohnFlux> I'm writting an accelerated driver for kdrive
 [12:08:28]  <JohnFlux> kdrive provides 4 main hooks for accelerating.  I've done fill and copy, and now looking at doing blend/composite
 [12:08:59]  <JohnFlux> writing a test program to test fill and copy is easy - that's just core xlib commands.  i can call XFillRectange  etc.
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[12:09:31]  <bipak> hi, just asked in #xorg but i think this is a better place...
 [12:09:34]  <bipak> is there a function to set windows allways on top in the xlib?
[12:09:41]  <JohnFlux> but I don't know how to do write an X program that does composite etc
[12:12:33]  <fredrikh^ ah... well the composite call corresponds to XRenderComposite, XRenderFillRectangle etc.
 [12:13:01]  <fredrikh> there's a test program for it: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/rendercheck
 [12:13:24]  <JohnFlux^ hmm, is rendercheck supposed to work on kdrive?  i couldn't get it to work
 [12:13:32]  <JohnFlux> it works on xorg, but not kdrive
 [12:13:40]  <JohnFlux> bipak: XChangeProperty on the window perhaps?
 [12:14:06]  <JohnFlux> along the lines of   http://fixunix.com/xwindows/91717-window-without-title-bar.html  maybe
 [12:14:20]  <fredrikh^ it should, but i've never tried it
 [12:14:43]  <bipak+ thanks :)
 [12:16:01]  <JohnFlux> fredrikh: googling for  XRenderFillRectangle  kdrive    has just 4 hits, none are relevant.  is this stuff documentated at all?
[12:17:47]  <fredrikh^ yeah, look at renderproto.txt in the xorg/proto/renderproto repository
 [12:18:11]  <JohnFlux^ just to check - is that relevant for kdrive?
 [12:19:21]  <fredrikh> it describes the protocol used by clients when talking to the X server, so it's relevant for all X servers
 [12:19:58]  <JohnFlux^ thanks
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[14:04:15]  <mattst88> Is it possible to built xserver-git with the old PCI access code instead of libpciaccess, or has it been removed?
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[14:04:51]  <MrCooper> mattst88: the latter
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[15:35:13]  <wereHamster> is there a limit how many times a pixmap can be bound to a texture (glXBindTexImage)?
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[20:57:16]  <rvalles> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15979
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[06:39:30]  <papillon81> hi. are there any advancements on the synaptics driver? am I informed correctly that it got relicensed? the latest git version does not work with xorg git anymore
 [06:43:34]  <jcristau^ but if you look a bit you'll find a patch to make it work
 [06:44:58]  <mjg59+ It wasn't fully relicensed, though it could be forked from an earlier version if someone really wanted an MIT version. Christoph Brill just applied for fd.o hosting for it.
 [06:45:10]  <mjg59> I know ajax was looking at synaptics support at some point
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[06:48:26]  <papillon81> jcristau: i used the patches from fedora, but since some weeks they don't work either
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[06:50:05]  <papillon81> why not put the available parts into the freedesktop git?
 [06:52:32]  <mjg59> The plan is to upload current git to fdo
 [06:53:39]  <papillon81> fdo?
 [06:53:46]  <mjg59> freedesktop.org
 [06:54:26]  <papillon81> ah, that's exactly what I meant :)
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[06:56:28]  <papillon81> so it might happen during the next weeks?
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[07:31:50]  <arekm> bug #16253, finally
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[07:34:44]  <jcristau> papillon81: oh, right, mpx
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[07:37:26]  <papillon81> jcristau: yeah, maybe.
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[11:02:32]  <whot> papillon81: http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/synaptics/
 [11:02:55]  <whot> those patches make it work with git master again
 [11:10:46]  <papillon81^ do i have to apply them to the synaptics git version?
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[12:47:37]  <papillon81> whot: the patches work. I just created an ebuild. thanks a bunch :)
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[15:05:00]  <dberkholz> darn, i wanted to tell him to send it to me so i could stick it in the overlay.
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[15:55:15]  <ds> What is Aaron Whitehouse's IRC nick?
 [15:57:28]  <dberkholz> i'd guess luna-tick from google, but hasn't been on irc for a year and a half
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[16:00:05]  <ds> er, I think I made the mistake of thinking he was an X developer
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[16:02:50]  <dberkholz> there's david woodhouse..
 [16:03:31]  <ds> ah, yes.
 [16:03:39]  <ds> but I know him...
 [16:04:26]  <ds> oh well.  /me boggles as his neuron connections
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[16:29:58]  <iamsthithatoo> hey, I am looking to write an xorg input driver.. with network support
 [16:31:00]  <iamsthithatoo> I have a tablet pc and a desktop.. and I would like to use the tablet part on the desktop pc.. including pressure sensitivity and all
 [16:31:35]  <iamsthithatoo> anyone have any suggestions on what the best way to approach this would be?
 [16:32:55]  <dberkholz> http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ might work
 [16:34:17]  <iamsthithatoo> no it doesnt, synergy allows you to share a mouse.. I would have to point my stylus on the desktop monitor or something like that for synergy to work.. and it has no pressure sensitivity
 [16:34:35]  <iamsthithatoo> also.. vnc has no pressure sensitivity
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[17:50:03]  <jg> ping
 [17:51:57]  <stillunknown> pong
 [17:52:39]  <cjb> who is being pung?  :)
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[18:24:20]  <murrant> I'm looking for a program or a way to log randr events
 [18:24:31]  <murrant> does anyone know of any?
 [18:28:18]  <ds> log in a sysadmin way, or log in a debugging way?
 [18:28:37]  <ds> for the latter, i'd recommend xtrace
 [18:30:04]  <cjb^ Do you mean xtrace the protocol tracer or xtrace the generic tracer?
 [18:30:27]  <ds> yes
 [18:30:31]  <cjb> :)
 [18:30:47]  <ds> (there are two?)
 [18:30:58]  <cjb> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xtrace/ , might be vapor.
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[18:32:43]  <murrant> ok, well debugging way, I need to make sure the events are getting generated because they aren't coming down through qt to the program I'm working on
 [18:35:19]  <murrant> xtrace doesn't like x86_64 :(
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[18:53:59]  <murrant> ok, well, now I have a 6meg file from xtrace to look through, yay
 [18:55:30]  <wereHamster> the pages that mesa/src/mesa/drivers/dri/i915/i915_reg.h refers to, where can I get the document? I couldn't find anything related to that header in the docs at http://intellinuxgraphics.org/documentation.html
 [18:57:55]  <stillunknown^ I don't think i915 docs are public.
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[19:00:28]  <wereHamster> uhm. I'm using the xf86-video-intel driver, and it loads the i915 drm module. And I see there is a i965 directory in mesa/src/mesa/drivers/dri/ ... I'm confused
 [19:00:45]  <wereHamster> oh, and I have a i965 chip in the computer
 [19:01:37]  <Ori_B^ the docs aren't in the display registers PDF?
 [19:02:11]  <wereHamster> I'm looking at http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=mesa/mesa.git;a=blob;h=b5585e70e799f2f0737309dd3b5669624bd77ed7;hb=21f50818b09c1ab3b5b1dc797b34c23b9b1634dc;f=src/mesa/drivers/dri/i915/i915_reg.h
 [19:02:25]  <wereHamster> and am trying to figure out how the registers work
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[23:14:18]  <rvalles> about gallium3d... any way to get lib32 GL stuff on 64bit? Need that to try it against some binary-only games and wine.
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----- [2008-06-08] -----
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[01:52:16]  <dberkholz> yes, you can build 32-bit stuff on amd64 systems. you can probably find info on how if you google around
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[20:46:42]  <jg> ping keithp
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[01:42:27]  <aquarichy> I'm wondering whether anyone else is having issues with $ git clone http://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/lib/libX11.git
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[01:53:46]  <aquarichy> It gots for a while but encounters an object it cannot obtain. :S
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[04:09:50]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:44:48]  <eboettcher> pixman_region_equal is not exported from pixman anymore, which breaks xserver build
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[05:54:32]  <jcristau> eboettcher: thanks, should be fixed now
 [05:55:24]  <jcristau> ssp: see above
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[06:00:07]  <jcristau> hrm. pixman_version{,_string} disappeared too.
 [06:03:30]  <jcristau> ok, pixman abi should be restored for real now
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[06:08:32]  <eboettcher> oh please tell me that the release he just pushed out has said exports...
 [06:09:51]  <jcristau^ probably not
 [06:10:44]  <Q-FUNK^ do you think anybody would object if I took over -nsc to be able to merge my fixes on time for Lenny?
 [06:11:05]  <jcristau> 'your fixes' being?
 [06:12:05]  <Q-FUNK^ reverting the pci.ids patch and installing a static list of known hardware instead, plus versioned conflicts with a specific -geode release.
 [06:12:54]  <jcristau> then yes, i would object :)
 [06:13:31]  <Q-FUNK^ fair enough.  can you or someone else implement these changes then?  I'm waiting for this to upload a -geode that reintroduces support for GX2.
 [06:13:56]  <jcristau> i'm happy to make changes, if you can explain why they're necessary. preferrably in the bug report.
 [06:14:24]  <Q-FUNK> it's already there
 [06:14:42]  <Q-FUNK> PCI ID conflicts with -cyrix and -geode
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[06:15:48]  <Q-FUNK> requires not applying the patch that auto-generates the ID and instead shipping an nsc.ids that only contains exactly what the -nsc driver supports.
 [06:17:32]  <Q-FUNK> I attached a debdiff against your current package.  however, due to the way these XSF scripts work, it won't install the file at the right location.
 [06:18:26]  <Q-FUNK> the key element is the static nsc.ids that I attached.  how it's installed is up to you.
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[06:59:08]  <daggett> hi all
 [07:00:21]  <daggett> I'm using Fedora9 i386 with the Xorg 7.4 and I can't get EmulateWheel nor Emulate3Buttons to work
 [07:00:37]  <daggett> it used to work on Xorg7.3
 [07:01:11]  <daggett> in the Xorg.0.log log file my EmulateWheel option is taken into account
 [07:01:16]  <daniels> yes, the evdev driver doesn't support that; patches accepted, though
 [07:01:53]  <daggett^ but how is that it used to work in 7.3 but not in 7.4 ?
 [07:04:39]  <daniels^ 7.3 used the mouse driver, whereas 7.4 uses separate evdev devices
 [07:05:23]  <daggett^ what can I do to get EmulateWheel to work again ?
 [07:06:43]  <daniels> patch the evdev driver?
 [07:07:44]  <daggett> are there no possibility to use that old mouse driver anymore ?
 [07:08:29]  <daniels> you could add Option "NoAutoAddDevices" to the ServerFlags section
 [07:10:28]  <daggett> ok, I'll see that, and check if I can make Xorg use the mouse driver instead of evdev and maybe try to patch the evdev driver
 [07:11:08]  <daggett> but it's quiet astonishing to let the EmulateWheel option available if it's not supported anymore...
 [07:11:41]  <jcristau> it's a mouse driver option
 [07:11:42]  <daniels> the emulatewheel option is available for the mouse driver, not the evdev driver
 [07:13:53]  <daggett> ok then, so I'll try to get it to work, thanks
 [07:15:04]  <daggett> maybe I can post on some feature-request forum or something make this possible with evedev driver ?
 [07:25:23]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: and removing support for that, simply because we're switching to evedev, is supposed to be progress?
 [07:26:18]  <jcristau> no support has been removed
 [07:31:20]  <Q-FUNK^ aren't we relying upon evdev for everything, starting with 7.4?
 [07:32:18]  <mraudsepp> it tends to get to be used by default instead of mousedrv
 [07:32:47]  <mraudsepp> but mouse driver doesn't support EmulateWheel by default anyway, so to get that feature, you need to edit xorg.conf already iirc, hence you could at that point just select mouse driver as well
 [07:33:11]  <mraudsepp> that's what you'd do anyway, as Option "EmulateWheel" goes into mouse drivers device section
 [07:34:01]  <jcristau> Q-FUNK: evdev is used for hotplug.  that doesn't mean you can't use mouse
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[07:44:15]  <daggett> Ok I precised in my Xorg.conf Driver "mouse" in the mouse section... and it doesn't work either.
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[08:15:25]  <daniels> daggett: 14:14 < daniels> you could add Option "NoAutoAddDevices" to the ServerFlags section
 [08:15:37]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: thanks for your insight into the matter, it's been absolutely invaluable.
 [08:16:02]  <daniels> in the future though, if you could please attempt to limit yourself to matters you understood or at least had a chance of understanding, that'd be brilliant.  thanks.
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[08:26:51]  <daggett> well, I understand him, it's quiet frustrating to update to a new version and not be able to configure easily something you were used to...
 [08:27:12]  <daggett> so I'll try to find a way to do it and post it on the internet
 [08:27:43]  <daniels> it should be a relatively straightforward port of the xf86-input-mouse code to do exactly the same thing, and we'd gladly take patches
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[08:35:14]  <daggett> daniels: ok, I'll check that and try to make a patch (I never compiled Xorg, nor proposed a patch so ...)
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[08:41:53]  <daniels> daggett: let me know if you have any questions
 [08:42:49]  <daggett> ok no prob! thanks a lot
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[10:08:50]  <JohnFlux2> hey all
 [10:08:57]  <JohnFlux2> how do I change the resolution that kdrive runs at?
 [10:09:17]  <JohnFlux2> if I use  'fbset' to set the resolution, then run Xfbdev, it just reset the resolution to what it wants
 [10:09:27]  <daniels^ Xfbdev -help
 [10:09:53]  <JohnFlux2^ i've been looking at that.. can you give me a hint? :)
 [10:10:27]  <daniels> -screen
 [10:10:53]  <JohnFlux2> my --help  doesn't list a -screen option
 [10:12:16]  <daniels> it's definitely there ...
 [10:12:41]  <daniels>     ErrorF("-screen WIDTH[/WIDTHMM]xHEIGHT[/HEIGHTMM][@ROTATION][X][Y][xDEPTH/BPP{,DEPTH/BPP}[xFREQ]]  Specify screen characteristics\n");
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[10:27:08]  <Q-FUNK> bgoglin: it *is* debian's fault.  stop being an ass and fix it.
 [10:27:36]  <daniels> ... i don't see anything from bgoglin in this channel, at least in the last ~18h.
 [10:28:00]  <Q-FUNK^ irrelevant.
 [10:28:18]  <jcristau^ no it's not. please take this elsewhere
 [10:28:21]  <daniels+ it is entirely fucking relevant.  can you please keep your debian dispute whereever they started?
 [10:29:04]  <Q-FUNK^ please stay out of this since you have nothing useful to contribute to that particular topic.
 [10:29:14]  <Q-FUNK> jcristau: it is.
 [10:29:18]  <jcristau> sigh
 [10:29:28]  <jcristau> /ignore Q-FUNK it is, then.
 [10:30:07]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: exactly.  i don't have anything to say about debian development anymore.  that's why i'm in #xorg-devel and not #debian-devel.  if you only want to talk about debian development and not actual xorg development (which is entirely the case, ime), i suggest you do the reverse.
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[10:31:23]  * JohnFlux2 adds Q-FUNK to his ignore list
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[10:38:58]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I think my version of kdrive is too old
 [10:39:24]  <daniels^ er, which version does it report?
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[10:49:37]  <JohnFlux> daniels: i don't even have a -version etc option :-D  I think it's really really old.  I'm currently compiling a newer version :-D
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[12:03:45]  <arekm> #16253 who can process it? (sysadmin)
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[12:19:11]  <ssp> jcristau: Thanks for fixing this
 [12:19:19]  <jcristau^ np
 [12:19:23]  <ssp^ I'll do a brown paper bag release now
 [12:19:37]  <jcristau> thanks :)
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[12:58:08]  <CE> Hi
 [12:58:34]  <CE> I try to upload subpixel-antialiased glyphs, using an ARGB32 pixtformat
 [12:59:30]  <CE> any idea why the resulting pixel is yellow, when the glyph has A:255 R:0x00 G:0x00 B:0x00
 [12:59:41]  <CE> on white background with a black src-surface
 [13:01:05]  <CE> which purpose does the alpha-byte have in this context?
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[13:20:11]  <CE> does anybody know some sample code which shows howto upload subpixel-AA glyphs to the server?
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[13:21:19]  <JohnFlux> CE: just so you know you aren't being ignored - I have been reading your questions.  i just can't answer them :)
 [13:21:39]  <CE^ thx ;)
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[13:25:54]  <cjb> don't suppose it could be premult alpha?
 [13:26:47]  <cjb> oh!  A=255, not R=255.  Not sure what I'd expect to see there.
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[13:27:19]  <CE> cjb: I am not sure wether A is really A or if I messed something up
 [13:27:48]  <CE> I've created a glyphset with ARGB32 PictFormat
 [13:28:00]  <CE> and stored the glyph-data like this:
 [13:28:13]  <CE> const unsigned char glyph_data_H[12*4*16]={255, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, ....
 [13:29:58]  <fredrikh^ with subpixel alpha, all the channels are alpha channels
 [13:30:11]  <fredrikh> the glyphs are still masks, but each color channel has a separate alpha value
 [13:30:23]  <CE> yes, thats what I thought it is
 [13:31:31]  <CE> which purpose does the "real" alpha channel serve in the mask?
 [13:31:39]  <CE> will it mask the alpha form src?
 [13:34:04]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [13:34:27]  <CE> hmm
 [13:35:00]  <fredrikh> technically i guess it should be the average of the color channels, but i think everyone uses the green value
 [13:35:09]  <CE> how can that generate yellow, if glyph-mask alpha is set to 255 and the src is a solid black picture?
 [13:35:30]  <CE> and r/g/b are left at zero
 [13:35:38]  <ajax> the alpha channel from the CA picture is the global opacity.
 [13:35:50]  <ajax> it's a premultiplied alpha picture like anything else in Render.
 [13:37:09]  <fredrikh> CE: you can find a description of the math here: http://anholt.livejournal.com/32058.html
 [13:39:40]  <CE> thanks
 [13:39:44]  * CE is reading ;)
 [13:42:24]  <CE> I still don't understand how in my combination this could lead to yellow :-/
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[13:47:43]  <CE> according to this: dst.R = src.R * mask.R + (1 - (src.A * mask.R)) * dst.R
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[13:48:05]  <CE> it should be the background-color
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[14:09:37]  <ajax> boo, no MrCooper
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[14:11:05]  <piggz> hi....my X crashes > 2 times per day, its getting kindof annoying.   ive filed a bug with lots of logs @ http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16240 , and wondered if anyone has ant tips/suggestion/experience n this area as i havnt heard from the bug ownes yet
 [14:11:15]  <piggz> not that I'm wanting to hassle them, I'm sure they'll look at it, but i could do with less crashes
 [14:13:42]  <jcristau> ajax: can you push the v4l 0.2.0 changes to git? (3 commits apparently, removing RCS tags, 'Fix ioctl() outparameter on LP64 systems.' and the version bump)
 [14:14:20]  <ajax^ done.  how'd i miss that.
 [14:14:28]  <jcristau> thanks
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[14:15:24]  <jcristau> plus the tag, i guess :)
 [14:16:07]  <ajax> there we go
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[15:53:08]  <bipak_> hi
 [15:54:59]  <bipak_> i'm still trying to make a window "always on top".. i can bring it to the top now with XUnmapWindow(...) XChangeProperty(..._NET_WM_STATE_ABOVE...)
 [15:55:34]  <bipak_> first question... is this a good way? second question: how can i remove the STATE_ABOVE property
 [15:56:04]  <bipak_> simply calling XDeleteProperty, doenst work
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[15:59:57]  <CE> I created some screenshots of my subpixel-AAed glyphs: http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxhippy/Subpixel
 [16:00:34]  <CE> the "with alpha=255" version contains the pixel values of the first two lines
 [16:00:50]  <CE> I still don't understand how the background can be yellow :-/
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[17:28:45]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: sysadmin related ping
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[17:31:12]  <jcristau> ajax: can you cherry-pick 150c2f55a508ed24b230f68e30ec140c0901d9ae to server-1.5-branch? that would make it possible to fix drivers to use the server headers instead of the xlib ones
 [17:31:38]  <daniels> (ack)
 [17:33:29]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: mm?
 [17:36:21]  <jcristau> ajax: thanks!
 [17:38:41]  <ajax> np
 [17:39:34]  <dberkholz^ what's your feelings on 1.5 swrast?
 [17:39:58]  <ajax^ since mesa 7.1 might actually release i'm thinking that's the way forward.
 [17:40:07]  <dberkholz^ sweet!
 [17:40:19]  <ajax> i totally suck for being so slow with this
 [17:40:32]  <dberkholz> slow is fine, i was just getting concerned that slow meant not happening. =)
 [17:40:34]  <ajax> but it does pay off in that i get to do it in sync with my unsyncable external dependency
 [17:40:38]  <ajax> yeah, i know
 [17:41:00]  <ajax> had a sudden fire drill last week that involved getting on a plane and working through the weekend
 [17:41:10]  <dberkholz> ick. i only had to work saturday
 [17:41:56]  <vignatti> daniels: hey Daniel
 [17:42:05]  <daniels^ evening dude
 [17:42:10]  <dberkholz> yay, i get to build xorg-server 1.3.
 [17:42:12]  <vignatti> daniels: why you didn't update my ssh key as well?
 [17:42:26]  <daniels^ encouragement to test the system :)
 [17:42:36]  <vignatti> hum?
 [17:43:19]  <vignatti> daniels: am I able to push a tree only with the gpg key for instance?
 [17:44:29]  <daniels^ http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountMaintenance :)
 [17:45:17]  <vignatti^ oh sure. Let me try :)
 [17:47:27]  <daniels> let me know if there's any problem
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[17:56:38]  <vignatti> daniels: cool. The system is awesome
[17:56:39]  <vignatti> heh
 [17:57:16]  <daniels> first time anyone's ever accused it of being awesome ;)
 [17:57:50]  <lubomir> hello
 [17:57:56]  <lubomir> i changed to xorg 1.4 and i cant configure my keyboardlayout
 [17:58:04]  <lubomir> i think i had read somewhere, that i should reconfigure my keyboard config with evdev. is that right? is there somewhere an evdev howto?
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[18:01:21]  <daniels> lubomir: you have to modify the hal files
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[18:01:35]  <lubomir> daniels,no, i have not
 [18:02:05]  <dberkholz> was there someone working on a gui for that?
 [18:02:05]  <lubomir> is that new to xorg 1.4?
 [18:02:31]  <daniels^ yes, it is
 [18:02:35]  <daniels> dberkholz: dunno
 [18:03:11]  <lubomir^ is there a howto for that?
 [18:03:18]  <dberkholz> that reminds me, i wanted to check whether the commits to allow all the xorg.conf settings in hal files hit the 1.5 branch
 [18:03:19]  <lubomir> and why did you change that?
 [18:03:38]  <lubomir> with you i mean "you xorg-dev's" ;-)
 [18:04:49]  <daniels^ http://www.glokal.eu/node/50
 [18:05:05]  <daniels> it changed to use hal because hal already knows about all the devices on the system, so rather than invent the wheel, we just used that
 [18:08:51]  <lubomir^ what should i do to get just the germany keyboard layout again?
 [18:09:28]  <lubomir> how should that strange file in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ look?
 [18:09:42]  <daniels^ as in the keyboard example in that url
 [18:10:01]  <daniels> except make input.x11_driver be evdev, and input.xkb.model be evdev
 [18:10:22]  <daniels> in fact, you could just get rid of all the <merge/> elements except the layout one
 [18:10:32]  <dberkholz> ajax: care to cherrypick 47eb658e802775021e3efec109f95431cca188ca 901978ebe0f446532255701cd536e246e805a55b ff013b0da4e6d33b2b69ce1212e9bd62050574e1 ?
 [18:11:38]  <lubomir> thats my xorg.conf at the moment. had to create a new one, because with the old config file, kde reboots in a loop (login->x-restart->login->x-restart...): http://nopaste.com/p/aNyfAOoRn
 [18:13:18]  <lubomir> daniels, what is the better/prefered way?
[18:13:43]  <lubomir> evdev or hal?
 [18:14:40]  <jcristau> this 'or' doesn't make sense
 [18:18:07]  <lubomir> that could just work?: http://nopaste.com/p/aABUIAZq5
 [18:18:44]  <lubomir> instead of that, what is not working any more: http://nopaste.com/p/aJLR5Mzqe
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[18:21:34]  <jcristau> lubomir: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?><match key="info.capabilities" contains="input.keys"><merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">de</merge></match>
 [18:21:51]  <jcristau> in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/keymap.fdi
 [18:22:30]  <lubomir^ THANKS!!!!!
 [18:22:36]  <lubomir> will try that now
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[18:33:26]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: you should be good to go
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[18:36:04]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: thanks
 [18:37:00]  <daniels> np
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[18:55:13]  <dberkholz> bah. apple stuff screwing up my cherrypicks again
 [18:55:28]  <jcristau> fail
 [18:55:32]  <dberkholz> sometimes i wish we used something with actual patch dependencies like darcs
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[20:04:17]  <dberkholz> for some reason i can't cherrypick 61eaef22359ae2abcee7dcd73ee8610a83776fc7 from master to 1.5 branc
 [20:04:21]  <dberkholz> can anyone reproduce that?
 [20:04:46]  <dberkholz> i get a weird warning about renaming, it looks like it finishes, and then nothing gets committed
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[20:05:31]  <dberkholz> http://pastebin.com/m42f535b2
 [20:07:36]  <dberkholz> eh, i'm probably just mildly retarded. don't worry about it.
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[20:12:03]  <dberkholz> got my patches out of order
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[21:03:40]  <mattst88> my alpha system slows to a crawl after running a program that uses 3D acceleration after about 5 seconds
 [21:03:45]  <mattst88> glxgears, quake3, etc
 [21:03:57]  <mattst88> can anyone advise me on how to debug this?
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[21:04:10]  <mattst88> Xorg.0.log reveals nothing interesting.
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[22:20:50]  <idr> mattst88: Is this with Xserver 1.5?
 [22:22:45]  <mattst88^ 1.4.0.90
 [22:23:00]  <idr^ Okay.  So still no resource files? :(
 [22:23:19]  <mattst88> I haven't heard anything else from Jay Estabrook since the email I forwarded to you
 [22:23:24]  <idr> dang
 [22:24:18]  <jcristau> mattst88: any chance i could get a copy of that mail? :)
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[22:24:37]  <mattst88> absolutely, where should I send it?
 [22:24:58]  <jcristau^ jcristau@debian.org
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[22:27:50]  <mattst88> sent.
 [22:28:10]  <jcristau> thanks
 [22:28:17]  <mattst88> if either of you have the time to file a kernel bug report, please do.
 [22:28:23]  <mattst88> I don't think it can hurt.
 [22:33:39]  <jcristau> so any arch which doesn't define HAVE_PCI_MMAP is broken?
 [22:34:25]  <mattst88> idr?
 [22:35:14]  <mattst88> also, see http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0412.2/1139.html
 [22:35:52]  <jcristau> yeah. that's the code i was looking at.
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[22:36:38]  <idr> jcristau: If that means it doesn't have /sys/bus/pci/devices/*/resource? files, then yes.
 [22:37:06]  <idr> That's the only method currently implemented in libpciaccess to get at the device's BARs.
 [22:38:09]  <jcristau^ drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c has static inline int pci_create_resource_files(struct pci_dev *dev) { return 0; } if HAVE_PCI_MMAP isn't defined
 [22:38:32]  <idr^ Okay, then yes. :)
 [22:43:38]  <jcristau> we'll need some kind of fallback then :)
 [22:44:38]  <mattst88> http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/4/28/27
 [22:45:16]  <mattst88> according to that mail, alpha doesn't implement stuff necessary for the resourceX files
 [22:45:24]  <mattst88> /dev/mem needs to be used instead.
 [22:47:20]  <airlied> alpha should just implement that stuff..
[22:47:54]  <airlied> the days of hacking X to workaround OS inefficencies is gone thankefully
 [22:48:56]  <mattst88> I assumed he meant it was a limitation of the hardware.
 [22:49:29]  <mattst88> ahf, 'implement' it. yes, I think you're right.
 [22:50:10]  <airlied> also it should abstract away the Jensen sparse crap if it can.
 [22:54:47]  <jcristau> it's not just alpha though
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[01:10:48]  <dberkholz> ajax: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~dberkholz/xserver/log/?h=server-1.5-branch-gentoo has all the glcore->swrast commits in it, as well as a few hal-related ones
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[01:18:13]  <dberkholz> jcristau: maybe you're interested in the above too, dunno
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[03:21:48]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:47:06]  <whot> daniels: candidate for server-1.4-branch, http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=17025
 [06:52:32]  <jcristau^ that's a server log, not a patch? :)
 [07:01:21]  <whot> stupid copy/paste *grumble grumble*
 [07:01:23]  <whot> thanks
 [07:01:38]  <whot> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=16887
 [07:01:43]  <whot> that looks more like it
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[07:36:50]  <daniels> whot: mm
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[11:58:45]  <jcristau> ooh. 1.4.1.
 [11:59:28]  <jcristau> daniels: thanks
 [12:02:10]  <daniels> np
 [12:02:44]  <daniels> apologies for the minor delay
 [12:02:49]  <jcristau> :)
 [12:04:27]  <daniels> okay, so i pushed the announce at 19:01.  my bet is that phoronix pick it up by :28.  anyone else want to bet? next highest number wins (e.g. if it hits at :29, anyone who bet later wins).
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[12:07:14]  <mraudsepp> can I bet :20? :)
 [12:07:37]  <jcristau> i'll bet :27 then :)
 [12:07:37]  <daniels> sure
 [12:07:50]  <daniels> jcristau: haha, you bastard
 [12:08:31]  <daniels> i think their record for posting a story about an avivo commit was 15 minutes
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[12:10:30]  <mraudsepp> I hope someone already hinted #phoronix
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[12:15:00]  <daniels> mraudsepp: no chating now
 [12:15:04]  <daniels> ('cheating')
 [12:15:19]  <mraudsepp> I haven't!
 [12:15:24]  <daniels> good man. :)
 [12:19:05]  <mraudsepp> come on
 [12:19:16]  * mraudsepp turns back his clocks innocently
 [12:19:52]  <marcheu> will it hit phoronix before the anounce email is in my mailbox ?
 [12:20:49]  <daniels> mraudsepp: sorry, but you're out
 [12:21:01]  <daniels> marcheu: your mail sucks, it hit mine ages ago
 [12:21:14]  <marcheu> nothing new under the sun :)
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[12:28:20]  <jcristau> damn. i lose.
 [12:29:34]  <daniels> me too :(
 [12:29:45]  <daniels> phoronix is slipping
 [12:30:08]  <mraudsepp> you should blog about that
 [12:34:29]  <daniels> maybe if i did a commit to avivo, they'd wake up
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[12:39:23]  <drago01> michaellarabel> wow, xserver-1.4.1 is finally released...
 [12:39:31]  <drago01> they woke up ;)
 [12:39:50]  <daniels> 38 minutes, not too sloppy.  anything more than 45 minutes and i'd be worried.
 [12:39:55]  <marcheu> I should've bet on 42
 [12:41:40]  <marcheu> I wonder how open that OpenCL will be
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[12:41:48]  <marcheu> it could be the answer to open source gpgpu computing
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[12:43:16]  <Wallbraker> its just a API, its the same with OpenGL we can't really say its comformant since we don't pay anything but we can implement the API.
 [12:43:20]  <daniels> marcheu: probably the usual khronos dance -- open api, closed development process, next to zero open source interest ;)
 [12:43:50]  <marcheu^ yeah we lack an API though, using an existing one woule be good
 [12:47:10]  <marcheu> and it sure has more value than opengl-es or openvg in my opinon :)
 [12:47:19]  <marcheu> (at least on paper)
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[13:14:03]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: apparently, I fail to win - the ud-l interface is now telling me "Key (xx) not found"
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[13:22:21]  <daniels> 5A1A D59A 8B27 8849  51AC 47AC A63D E74D 84F7 3C24
 [13:22:23]  <daniels> is that right?
 [13:23:23]  <CosmicPenguin> nope
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[13:25:42]  <CosmicPenguin> E46A C1A2 A0F7 C948 88AA  0BB6 0785 1149 6C96 AF4D
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[13:48:31]  <arekm> I can't belive it. (about xserver ;)
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[13:49:15]  <arekm> the question is wheter it works with mesa 7.1rc1
 [13:49:24]  <arekm> s/works/is buildable/
 [13:49:59]  <jcristau> no
 [13:50:04]  <dberkholz> i just posted a version of 1.5 branch last night that would
 [13:50:10]  <dberkholz> jcristau: did you see that? thoughts?
 [13:50:24]  <arekm> posted?
 [13:50:38]  <dberkholz> 05:10 < dberkholz > ajax:
[13:50:38]  <dberkholz> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~dberkholz/xserver/log/?h=server-1.5-branch-gentoo  has all the glcore->swrast commits in it, as well as a few  hal-related ones
 [13:50:55]  <jcristau^ didn't look at it. but i think i like the idea.
 [13:51:18]  * arekm hopes that ajax will merge it
 [13:51:24]  <dberkholz> jcristau: ajax was for it, since it looks like a 7.1 release will happen soon
 [13:51:58]  <dberkholz> bbiab
 [13:52:03]  <jcristau^ i won't ship 1.5 for a while though; lenny freeze is coming up, and 1.5 is broken on quite a few architectures, so it's not an option for us (yet)
 [13:54:17]  <arekm> xprint doesn't build in 1.4.1
[13:54:30]  <jcristau> nobody cares about xprint
 [13:55:07]  <arekm> so why someone few weeks ago fixed in on master ?
 [13:55:17]  <arekm> or why it wasn't dropped from tree at all ?
 [13:55:20]  <jcristau> it was
 [13:55:23]  <arekm> and so on 8)
 [13:55:35]  <jcristau> master doesn't have hw/xprint
 [13:55:43]  <arekm> ah, good
 [13:57:30]  <alanc> technically, it was split into its own tree in master, where those who care can still feed it, without getting stomped every other week by changes in the rest of the code
 [13:57:52]  <alanc> will be interesting to see if anyone cares enough to maintain it
 [13:58:29]  <daniels> arekm: hmm, i merged all the patches to fix the build
 [13:58:38]  <dagb> alanc: will it? (be interesting?)
 [13:59:01]  <alanc> mildly, since some of us still ship it
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[14:00:00]  <dagb> ah. right. And do you get to decide if Sun should drop it or not?
 [14:00:24]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: oops, screwed up when i changed the fingerprint last time.  should be ok now.
 [14:00:26]  <arekm^ did you test the build, too?
 [14:00:44]  <dagb> Or will the guys with wider ties than yourself "appoint" you as the maintainer?
 [14:00:46]  <alanc> I get a vote, but so do our i18n guys who are still using Xprint for some of our international printing code
 [14:01:11]  <alanc> I'm still busy working on digging the hole to bury Xsun in
 [14:02:07]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: thanks, trying it now
 [14:02:32]  <alanc> dagb: ties?  people wear those?    only time in 9 years at Sun I've worn a tie was to go to a co-workers funeral
 [14:02:45]  <arekm> The other thing that interest me is synaptics driver. I wonder how it will be decided on what to do with this since on xorg@ there was just a little discussion about the matter
 [14:02:53]  <arekm> + the synaptics bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16253
 [14:03:39]  <CosmicPenguin> daniels: win!
 [14:03:51]  <daniels> arekm: i did not
 [14:04:02]  <stillunknown> alanc: I think dagb means connections, influence, power, etc.
 [14:04:45]  <arekm> daniels: then maybe my setup is correct after all and this build is failing correctly
 [14:05:12]  <mjg59> I'm still not clear on why anyone wants to relicense synaptics
 [14:05:30]  <mjg59> What's the perceived benefit?
 [14:05:57]  <dagb> alanc: Then *anyone* wearing a tie would have more votes than you? :-)
 [14:05:58]  <daniels> honestly, i don't even have printproto installed.  i took some patches from dberkholz that were reputed to fix the build, but i have no idea if they were successful or not.  i'd really love bug reports with logs and preferably patches, though.
 [14:06:20]  <arekm> mjg59: it was discussed some time ago on xorg with some arguments
 [14:06:23]  <alanc> being able to put it with the rest of the xorg/xf86-input-* drivers so whot & daniels can fix it when they're changing the input ABI seems like a good reason
 [14:06:53]  <daniels^ er, i can fix it if it's not in xorg/driver/xf86-input-*.
 [14:07:17]  <mjg59> arekm: Yes, but none of the arguments in favour of the relicensing actually seemed meaningful
 [14:07:22]  <daniels> alanc: the #1 influence on whether or not i fix it up when i break api again (not entirely distant future) is whether or not i can test it, and right now i have one laptop, which has no trackpad.
 [14:08:16]  <dagb> mjg59: simpler code reuse/integration? (Guessing wildly.) related: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-touchpad/
 [14:08:53]  <mjg59^ I'm not sure where the code re-use is helpful.
[14:09:13]  <mjg59> synaptics is already a generic touchpad driver
 [14:09:25]  <mjg59> The name is hideously misleading now
 [14:09:25]  <dagb> what are the perceived drawbacks to relicensing?
 [14:09:59]  <dagb> mjg59: thank you for clearing that one up for me!
 [14:10:12]  <arekm> anyway the relicense already happened so no point in discussing it
 [14:10:18]  <mjg59^ Yes, by removing code
 [14:10:35]  <alanc> daniels: okay, umm, then.... the next best one I can think of is less arguments from wannabe lawyers about whether shipping Xorg with a proprietary video driver and GPL synaptics driver will cause hell to break lose
 [14:10:45]  <mjg59> As a result, it now only usefully works out of the box on genuine synaptics pads. Alps and Appletouch users are out of luck.
 [14:10:54]  <daniels> alanc: don't ship proprietary video drivers. :)
 [14:11:24]  <dagb> mjg59: what alanc said
 [14:11:27]  <mjg59> Given that the non-GPL-compatible video drivers all currently rely on non-GPL-compatible kernel modules, I think we're already onto a losing streak there
 [14:11:42]  <arekm^ well, better have such one that none as we have currently (aka some patches needed to get it working on current xserver)
 [14:11:51]  <alanc> daniels: that decision was made far above my head, when the VP's signed the contract to bundle nvidia's cards into our machines
 [14:11:54]  <mjg59> I guess it makes life easier for the BSDs
 [14:12:12]  <mjg59> My recollection is that Synaptics doesn't have any PS/2 support, though
 [14:12:19]  <mjg59> Uh.
 [14:12:23]  <mjg59> Solaris. Not PS/2.
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[14:12:32]  <dagb> mjg59: you were the one refusing the relicense the code in question, right?
 [14:12:43]  <mjg59^ Yeah
 [14:12:52]  <dagb> so... why?
 [14:13:02]  <mjg59> Because nobody's given me a compelling reason to :)
 [14:13:11]  <arekm> 8)
 [14:13:22]  <alanc> mjg59: have never actually tried it on Solaris, so I don't know - the license kept me from wanting to spend that much time with the real lawyers finding out if we could ship it
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[14:13:59]  <Mercury> mjg59: So, in the name of fewer headaches all around? :)
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[14:14:32]  <daniels> alanc: sometimes company lawyers are useful; they can say things such as 'you need to drop all that sgi cid code'.
 [14:14:58]  <mjg59> In any case, a lot of the useful additional work that can go into Synaptics is heavily Linux dependent
 [14:15:00]  <dagb^ so you don't have a deep principal aversion towards the new license?
 [14:15:05]  <alanc> oh, believe me, I am ever so thankful they told us we could never ship Display Postscript in OpenSolaris
 [14:15:13]  <mjg59> dagb: I've a deep aversion towards relicensing code for spurious reasons
 [14:15:20]  <mjg59> In whichever direction
 [14:15:57]  <mjg59> libx86 is staying MIT, for example :)
 [14:16:30]  <daniels> alanc: i cannot thank them enough
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[14:17:25]  <arekm> for a long time pure synaptics driver is unusable, there are few people who can change it (even if some code was dropped), so IMO they should get green light for fdo hosting. For both synaptic drivers actually. (no one cares about third one it seems)
 [14:17:58]  <daniels> but yeah, i have no real position on it (i've written both a gpl and an mit/x11 driver myself), except to say that it being synaptics/xf86-input-synaptics.git vs. xorg/driver/xf86-input-synaptics.git has zero bearing on whether i contribute it, and i imagine the situation is similar for peter.
 [14:18:21]  <daniels> arekm: fd.o hosting will go ahead regardless of the relicensing.  fd.o already hosts xf86-video-avivo, which is gpl ...
 [14:19:07]  <arekm^ #16253 is waiting then
 [14:19:45]  <daniels^ as with other fd.o admin bugs, yes
 [14:20:10]  <dagb> mjg59: how about this reason: your action is going to keep two almost similar drivers around for a while...
 [14:20:48]  <mjg59^ Hey, if people want to fork the driver then go for it
 [14:21:04]  <daniels+ er, you could equally say that for the relicensing effort ...
 [14:21:31]  <daniels> noting that the driver was originally gpl, and mit/x11 is a recent conscious effort.
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[14:21:53]  <dagb> daniels: I'd say that the guy working the relicensing worked really hard to avoid a fork.
 [14:23:13]  <mjg59> Well, he argued for relicensing on spurious grounds
 [14:23:55]  <cjb> hm, I think I'm sitting next to the person whose fault this all is.
 [14:24:14]  <cjb> (C. Scott Ananian, who thought GPL seemed like a good idea when he was writing a kernel/console driver.)
 [14:24:46]  <mjg59> Heh
 [14:26:24]  <dagb> And he managed to convince some 40(?) people those reasons were good enough. But not good enough for you. Fair enough.
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[14:28:41]  <mjg59> dagb: The email he sent was effectively "No Xorg developer will touch this driver unless it's relicensed"
 [14:29:25]  <mjg59> It also stated that it was impossible to ship the Synaptics source code with the Xorg source code under the current licensing. Which is, again, untrue
 [14:29:50]  <arekm> and he also send second mail clearing things after xorg@ discussion right?
 [14:29:55]  <mjg59^ No
 [14:30:12]  <arekm> http://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/synli2/ ?
 [14:30:17]  <mjg59^ Oh, conceivably
 [14:30:23]  <mjg59> Sorry, misreading old mails in my inbox here
 [14:30:30]  <dagb^ I distinctly recall him rewording his proposal
 [14:31:52]  <mjg59> The list also seems to suggest that Christian Thaeter's code can't be re-used, though that would depend upon the exact phrasing
 [14:33:07]  <mjg59> And three of the contributors didn't agree to the second email?
 [14:33:22]  <mjg59> Personally, I think it's dubious
 [14:36:49]  <dagb> oh well. As longs there is a driver for my hardware, I guess I don't really care enough...
 [14:37:35]  <dagb> would be cool to have the multitouch thing as a native feature of the driver, though
 [14:37:46]  <arekm> I guess Rigot case is marked in wrong way on /synli/ url + Thaeter unclear
 [14:40:00]  <arekm> ups, xserver 1.4.1 on ppc build failed, ../include/colormapst.h:110:42: error: operator '==' has no left operand
 [14:41:28]  <daniels^ X_BYTE_ORDER is undefined, somehow
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[14:52:59]  <arekm> daniels: heh.
 [14:53:00]  <arekm> # AC_C_BIGENDIAN ([ACTION-IF-TRUE], [ACTION-IF-FALSE], [ACTION-IF-UNKNOWN],
 [14:53:00]  <arekm> #                 [ACTION-IF-UNIVERSAL])
 [14:53:10]  <arekm> and on this system I'm getting... universal byte order
 [14:53:22]  <daniels^ something's screwed in your build, i think.  colormapst.h explicitly includes X11/Xarch.h, which should define X_BYTE_ORDER.
 [14:53:29]  <daniels> um.
 [14:53:31]  <daniels> yay autotools.
 [14:55:23]  <jcristau> arekm: Xprt builds just fine from the xorg-server-1.4.1 tag here
 [14:55:58]  <arekm> bug in autoconf, there is a fix it seems. let me try
 [14:56:05]  <arekm> universal == macos universal binaries btw
 [14:57:00]  <daniels> are you building on macos?
 [14:57:17]  <arekm> no. anyway http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=autoconf.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=b524b0f996c9c1e9a81a3e3cdcc11517c39adb7c
 [14:58:03]  <daniels> rocking
 [14:58:58]  <arekm> but hm, autoconf 2.62 (which I use) already has this patch heh
 [15:12:16]  <arekm> oh crap. http://pld.pastebin.com/f63a1d948 note no headers (like endian.h included)
 [15:13:17]  <arekm> and autoconf detects such behaviour as universal binaries
 [15:17:50]  <arekm> $ echo "" | gcc -E -dM -x c - | grep ENDIAN
 [15:17:50]  <arekm> #define __BIG_ENDIAN__ 1
 [15:17:50]  <arekm> #define _BIG_ENDIAN 1
 [15:17:57]  <arekm> it's predefined here by gcc. weird
 [15:18:18]  <arekm> anyone with ppc/linux here?
 [15:19:07]  <jcristau^ yes
 [15:20:07]  <arekm^ is echo "" | gcc -E -dM -x c - | grep ENDIAN returning endian macros on your setup?
 [15:20:39]  <jcristau> yes
 [15:20:49]  <arekm> which gcc version?
 [15:21:08]  <jcristau> gcc (Debian 4.3.0-5) 4.3.1 20080523 (prerelease)
 [15:21:18]  <jcristau> same with gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 20061115 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-21)
 [15:21:40]  <arekm> ok, thanks
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[15:33:39]  * daniels stares at ajax.
 [15:33:59]  <ajax> i'm a bad man.
 [15:34:31]  <daniels> why?
 [15:34:42]  <ajax> clobbering libpciaccess
 [15:34:53]  <ajax> why, what were you thinking of?
 [15:37:07]  <daniels> sorry, was trying to be a little terse.  why .3?
 [15:37:25]  <ajax> because i already did a .2?
 [15:37:44]  <jcristau^ since you're doing brown paper bags: elographics 1.2.1 is supposed to have 0133d754c10341ca5b572beeee72488b8f5ae8a8, but the tarball doesn't have it afaict
 [15:38:04]  <ajax> whee
 [15:38:28]  <jcristau> i can do 1.2.2 if you want though
 [15:38:33]  <ajax> go for it
 [15:38:37]  <jcristau> ok
 [15:39:48]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, but was there something wrong with the .2 tarball, or? the only .3 change was the version number ...
 [15:40:00]  <jbarnes> anholt: oops I meant to push that pwrctxa fix but lost track of it, thanks
 [15:40:28]  <ajax> daniels: no, the other .3 change was anholt's mprotect fix.
 [15:41:10]  <daniels^ uhm, git at least shows that being part of .2
 [15:41:24]  <ajax^ yeah, i moved the tag
 [15:41:30]  <ajax> (not intentionally0
 [15:41:39]  <ajax> the 0.10.2 tag didn't get pushed the first time around
 [15:41:43]  <ajax> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg-announce/2008-May/000546.html
 [15:41:51]  <daniels> ah, i see you
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[15:57:09]  <arekm> jcristau: about xprint: /usr/include/X11/extensions/Printstr.h:761: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'PrivateRec'
 [15:57:21]  <arekm> xorg-proto-printproto-devel-1.0.4-1.x86_64
 [15:57:57]  <arekm> then bunch of xprint.c:759: error: 'struct _XpContext' has no member named 'funcs'
 [15:59:04]  <jcristau> as i said. works for me.
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[16:55:13]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: cheers! :)
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[17:55:49]  <lubomir> hello
 [17:55:54]  <lubomir> i have a problem with my xorg
 [17:56:02]  <lubomir> yesterday i get help from jcristau to get my keyboard language to german. now i have the problem, that when i start my system with some core-pointer settings in xorg.conf (for tablet-pc-pen) then x restarts every time i log into kde. i found out, that when i give the kde pw and change back while loading to ttyx and then when i see, that it do not load any more and change back to tty7(xorg+kde) then everything is fine
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[18:03:35]  <gustaf1> jcristau: I've had xserver-xorg in my "upgradable" list in synaptic for days now, and it's not installable. it wants to uninstall pretty much all my X stuff (including gnome and  kde).
 [18:03:45]  <gustaf1> so, how am I supposed to upgrade?
 [18:04:37]  <gustaf1> also, what's the progress on xserver 1.4.99?
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[18:27:51]  <wereHamster> When was I830EXAGetPixmapHandle introduced? Is it available in xserver 1.4.1?
 [18:28:01]  <wereHamster> err.. exaGetPixmapDriverPrivate
 [18:29:12]  <jcristau> gustaf1: wtf are you talking about?
 [18:34:33]  <gustaf1^ ok let's begin with 'unstable'
 [18:34:58]  <jcristau^ then please take it off #xorg-devel
 [18:35:03]  <gustaf1> oh ok
 [18:35:22]  <gustaf1> so never mind then, cheers.
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[18:41:37]  <jcristau> gustaf1: but xserver-xorg is installable just fine, and doesn't conflict with anything gnome or kde, as far as i know
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[18:46:37]  <gustaf1> jcristau: http://pastebin.com/m5d74fd72
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[18:49:10]  <gustaf1> jcristau: http://pastebin.com/m5a4200be
 [18:49:54]  <jcristau> looks like a #debian issue.
 [18:50:35]  <gustaf1^ ok. too bad you ain't there ;)
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[19:30:13]  <murrant> how can you tell which screen was modified from a XRRScreenChangeNotifyEvent?
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[19:40:26]  <whot> FWIW, the only thing I care about with the synaptics driver is whether its easy to obtain and to push patches.
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[19:52:09]  <jcristau> cjb: what version of pkg-config is running on the tinderbox?
 [19:53:27]  <cjb^ oh, is that not built by jhbuild?
 [19:53:31]  <cjb> guess not.  moment.
 [19:53:44]  <cjb> [cjb@localhost ~]$ pkg-config --version
 [19:53:45]  <cjb> 0.21
 [19:54:02]  <jcristau> ok, that's the problem then
 [19:54:04]  <cjb> (Fedora 7.)
 [19:54:21]  <jcristau> the change i made assumes 0.22
 [19:54:24]  <cjb> ok.  (are we saying that building X apps on F7 is unsupported now?)
 [19:54:37]  <jcristau> guess i'll have to revert it :(
 [19:55:39]  <jcristau> Requires.private is useless on old pkg-config; but Requires is wrong..
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[20:01:36]  <cjb> jcristau: maybe you can test pkgconfig version when decide what to use?
 [20:02:18]  <jcristau^ not sure i can test that in the .pc file itself, other than depending on 0.22
 [20:02:25]  <cjb> nod.
 [20:02:33]  <jcristau^ and checking at xft build time is useless
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[20:20:58]  <jcristau> cjb: pushed the revert. thanks for the notice.
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[20:35:04]  <Primer> Hi. Is there a way to blacklist a specific device from being used by evdev? If so, how?
 [20:37:14]  <whot^ no
 [20:41:02]  <Primer> that's...unfortunate
 [20:41:35]  <Primer> my only alternative at this point is to remove evdev altogether
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[20:45:37]  <whot> sorry. patches welcome though :)
 [20:45:51]  <whot> what feature is evdev missing?
 [20:46:10]  <Primer> it's not technically missing anything
 [20:46:19]  <Primer> it's just that it's contending with btnx
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[20:46:45]  <Primer> btnx being a userspace program that reads the mouse device directly and issues key and button combos via uinput
 [20:47:49]  <whot> ah, I remember
 [20:48:00]  <Primer> I just upgraded from Fedora 8 to Fedora 9. In 8 I was able to explicitly setup the mouse device, but in 9, with the newer xorg, it seems to detect it and set it up for me, without my...consent
 [20:48:49]  <whot> indeed. input-hotplug goodness
 [20:48:56]  <whot> or badness, in your case
 [20:49:02]  <whot> somewhat blurry sometimes :)
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[20:49:09]  <Primer> I thought there was a way to blacklist at that level
 [20:49:51]  <whot> the x server gets the list from HAL and adds either none or all devices. no blacklist inside the server
 [20:50:14]  <Primer> Perhaps I could dictate which driver it should use?
 [20:50:22]  <Primer> mouse, instead of evdev?
 [20:51:06]  <whot> yeah, there's probably a way how to change it in x11-input.fdi, but I wouldn't know how.
 [20:51:19]  <Primer> I think I saw an example of that recently
 [20:51:49]  <Primer> indeed, here it is: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=767206&page=4
 [20:52:36]  <Primer> err, or something
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[20:59:23]  <whot> yeah. something like that :)
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[21:07:06]  <jg> cjb: the issue about the synaptics driver is that it was GPL, rather than LGPL; that puts us into trouble with binary drivers, legally, at least in principle.
 [21:08:14]  <cjb^ well, it was written for the kernel and console.  not unreasonable to want to use the standard license of userland at the time :)
 [21:09:49]  <jg^ as an X driver, it was a problem....
 [21:10:26]  <cjb> yup.
 [21:10:46]  <jg> all Scott's fault.  I tried hard to find everyone 4-5 years ago, but I never managed to track him down (along with one or two others).
 [21:13:12]  <Primer> couldn't get it to work
 [21:13:28]  <Primer> I ended up movin evdev_drv.so out of the way
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[21:14:16]  <Primer> moving, even
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[23:57:11]  <aaronp> Hey Solaris gurus, how do I find the package containing a file that I need?  Namely /usr/ucb/echo?
 [23:58:48]  <cjb> wth happened to mesa?
 [23:58:49]  <cjb> 314 files changed, 17997 insertions(+), 29036 deletions(-)
 [23:58:53]  <cjb> anyway, it doesn't build anymore.
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[00:36:33]  <daniels> jg: x.org is in the business of shipping mit/x11 and bsd drivers.  adding gpl to that mix is not a problem.  if people want to add proprietary drivers as an aftermarket consideration, that's their problem to deal with.  (as mjg59 pointed out, they all violate the gpl on the kernel anyway.)
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[01:20:48]  <idr> airlied: I gutted dependency on TTM fences from the xgi DRM.  It should be ready for pushing to mainline. :)
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[01:23:48]  <airlied> idr: oh nice I'll add it to the list, I might be able to get it in now, as its a new driver.
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[01:38:48]  * airlied wonders if anyone has master mesa/xserver building together..
 [01:38:54]  <airlied> or if I missed something.
 [01:40:43]  <airlied> ah my mesa is older than I thought fail..
 [01:41:15]  <airlied> git clone of a git clone..
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[03:04:06]  <vignatti> what the "correctly" way to sincronize a separate xserver tree with my own?
 [03:04:21]  <vignatti> I'm doing my own commits here and then a 'git-pull git://anongit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver master:master'
 [03:04:29]  <vignatti> is this enough?
 [03:05:08]  <vignatti> the bad thing is that 'Merge branch 'master' of git://anongit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver' commits...
 [03:06:58]  <daniels> you can use git-remote to add multiple repositories, and at that point it's pretty simple
 [03:07:20]  <daniels> you can use git-rebase to replay all your commits on top of the remote head, which means that you won't get the merge messages
 [03:11:45]  <vignatti^ interesting. Thanks dude
 [03:12:35]  <whot^ what I used to with the mpx branch was the following
 [03:12:41]  <whot> git checkout master
 [03:12:46]  <whot> git fetch origin && git rebase origin
 [03:12:51]  <whot> git checkout mpx
 [03:12:57]  <whot> git pull . master
 [03:13:18]  <whot> this way master was upstream-like and I didn't get the merge messages for fixes on master
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[03:16:03]  <vignatti> whot: cool. So I think I just need add a `git-remote add myrepo git://myrepo` before all this
 [03:16:16]  <whot> yep
 [03:16:29]  <maniac103> does XGetGeometry return root window coordinates or parent coordinates?
 [03:17:19]  <whot> For a window, these coordinates specify the upper-left outer corner relative to its parenthiss origin.
 [03:17:22]  <whot> says the manpage
 [03:17:59]  <maniac103^ oops, seemingly I'm blind, I overlooked that ... thanks
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[03:24:11]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:02:29]  <MrCooper> FWIW, current versions of Git support an option branch.<name>.rebase to make git pull rebase instead of merge
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[09:10:23]  <Solarion> morning
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[09:18:22]  <mattst88> keithp, surely this bug can be marked fixed. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1197
 [09:19:16]  <mattst88> (and 9826 too)
 [09:24:21]  <ajax> "Redhate Linux 7.2"
 [09:24:28]  <ajax> man, the number of ways this guy fails...
 [09:27:37]  <mraudsepp> what was current in august 2004?
 [09:27:59]  <jcristau> redlove
 [09:28:30]  <ajax> KMFDM's WWIII album
 [09:30:27]  <ajax> and, if you were talking about rhl-derived distros, fc3 was november 2004
 [09:31:11]  <daniels> i'm reminded of a question posed during xdc
 [09:31:21]  <daniels> when we were talking about pruning the set of extensions
 [09:31:27]  <daniels> <bushing> what's DEC-XTRAP?
 [09:31:30]  <daniels> <anholt> it's a trap!
 [09:32:34]  <ajax> of course, he's using an alpha.
 [09:32:56]  <ajax> which should have been his first hint.
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[10:20:20]  <jcristau> so should we do 1.4.2 today? :)
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[10:25:38]  <daniels> jcristau: why not, that'll at least give osnews something to think about
 [10:26:12]  <chpo_work> hi
 [10:26:45]  <chpo_work> i got problem with Xfbdev, it refuse connection
 [10:27:40]  <chpo_work> it seems thats because _XSendClientPrefix fix auth_proto to NULL
 [10:28:20]  <chpo_work> i tried to create an Xauthority file but it s not working
 [10:28:53]  <chpo_work> can someone help me to get a working xfbdev?
 [10:29:32]  <jcristau^ does it work if you start it with -ac?
 [10:30:36]  <chpo_work^ no
[10:31:02]  <jcristau> then it doesn't sound like an Xauthority problem
 [10:32:20]  <chpo_work^ i tried with an Xauthority file because with it, auth_proto = MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE
 [10:35:46]  <jcristau> daniels: hah, osnews just copy-pasted the story from phoronix. nice job they did.
 [10:36:40]  <tjaalton> it's also on /.
 [10:40:05]  <ajax> osnews is not what one would call "journalism"
 [10:40:16]  <jcristau> daniels: next time you should remove the blocker status from the remaining bugs just before release, apparently an empty blocker list is very important ;)
 [10:40:25]  <ajax> there _are_ some -ism words that you could use there.
 [10:41:30]  <Solarion^ stupidism?  ;)
 [10:45:56]  <daniels> jcristau: honestly, i'll settle for 'not giving a fuck'.
 [10:46:25]  <jcristau> yeah, that'll work too
 [10:51:02]  <marcheu> the /. comments are insightful, as usual
 [10:52:08]  <jg> blocker is misnamed, unfortunately; I've seen two categories: 1) really blocking bugs, and 2) serious enough bugs to be worth taking a fix late in a release cycle.  But most tracking systems I've seen end up with the two categories lumped together....
 [10:52:21]  <jg> and yes, /. is its usual self....
 [10:55:06]  <daniels> quality slashdot commentage: 'However, we're all (primarily) software developers. '
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[10:56:28]  <ajax> we who, kemosabe
 [10:56:47]  <jg> heh....
 [10:57:38]  <Solarion> was wondering when it'd hit here.  ;)
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[10:58:56]  <jg> daniels, jcristau: the other strategy, short of fixing bug categories, is to shove the non-blocker blockers out to the next release rather than leave them against the release being released; less public embarrassment....
 [10:59:02]  <owen> daniels: shouldn't that be more like "We're all (primarily) arm chair critics for everything we know nothing about"
 [10:59:10]  <jg> heh...
 [11:00:07]  <daniels^ honestly, the public embarassment of having two blockers open is less than the public embarassment of releasing ~200 days late.  if we made an imperfect release, we should at least be honest about it, and i'm more than happy to admit that 1.4.1 still has some flaws.
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[11:01:10]  <daniels> i can wear the tirades from people who (mostly) haven't contributed in any way, shape, or form.  i still sleep at night.  admittedly less well given the current 22h of daylight thing, but that's unrelated.
 [11:01:52]  <alanc> *sigh* how many times can phoronix recycle that one letter I sent about the 1.3 release?
 [11:02:58]  <alanc> maybe it's good he wasn't at XDC for the talks on how we need test suites people can run so we can actually do testing...
 [11:03:58]  <daniels^ he was right about 1.4.1 being an utter fiasco, but the hyperbole is a bit crap.  oh well. :)
 [11:04:34]  <Solarion^ where are you at?
 [11:04:50]  <daniels^ helsinki, fi
 [11:04:52]  <marcheu^ honestly, I don't think 1.4.1 being late was such a big deal ? it's not like 1.4 stopped working or anything...
 [11:04:54]  <Solarion> ah
 [11:04:59]  <ajax> the problem with working on free software, you see, is that your users are the sort of people who use free software.
 [11:04:59]  <Solarion> even more sun than in Scotland.  ;)
 [11:05:04]  <jcristau> ok, 1.4.2 distchecked.
 [11:05:04]  <mraudsepp> bug fix point releases don't seem to have any reason to be delayed due to unfixed bugs - they can get fixed in the next micro version bumped release
 [11:05:20]  <Solarion> daniels: does it even really get dark?
 [11:05:25]  <daniels> marcheu: yeah, this is why i left it stew rather than shove it out ...
 [11:05:26]  <mraudsepp> I mean, as long as the branch doesn't have regressions compared to the last release off of that branch
 [11:05:36]  <ajax> which is to say, not merely the usual level of anticlue, but also a healthy dose of entitlement.
 [11:05:39]  <daniels> Solarion: not overly, no ... sunset is still visible at midnight
 [11:05:46]  <alanc> yeah, I was surprised 1.4.1 went out yesterday instead of waiting until today's security patch, but releases can be cheap if we want
 [11:05:51]  <Solarion> midnight daylight savings time?
 [11:05:57]  <daniels> mraudsepp: yeah, that's the conclusion i came to
 [11:06:00]  <daniels> Solarion: utc+3, yeah
 [11:06:04]  <tjaalton^ it's dark now, thanks to the thunderstorms ;)
 [11:06:12]  <daniels> alanc: i can offer no excuse for that other than my own unbounded stupidity.
 [11:06:22]  <mraudsepp^ might have been useful 200 days ago; anyhow, good it's rolling now :)  I'm in 1.5 world though :)
 [11:06:25]  <daniels> tjaalton: maybe in otaniemi, but here at the other end of litnsivayla it's looking okay ;)
 [11:06:43]  <tjaalton^ bah, and I should cycle home
 [11:07:38]  <mraudsepp> now back to sending this xorg-server package on a diet :)
 [11:07:40]  <daniels> tjaalton: you may already be a winner
 [11:11:21]  <tjaalton^ yep, at least according to testbed.fmi.fi :)
 [11:12:18]  <daniels^ how did anyone ever live before that site? watching storms over your own house is pretty awesome.  'hey, it's calm outside ... oh right, the enormous purple bit is centered right over my house.'
 [11:12:41]  <daniels> then it starts hammering down with rain again, and a couple of minutes later, the centre of the storm moves on the map too.  it's the future.
 [11:13:31]  <tjaalton> hehe, so true
 [11:13:36]  <daniels> best slashdot comment, in response to the 'I TRIED TO PAY SOMEONE $20 TO FIX MY BUG AND THEY SAID NO OPEN SOURCE IS FOR SHIT' idiots: 'If I give you five bucks, will you go away?'
 [11:14:35]  <jg^ cool comment....  Can't get anyone to even answer a phone for $20....  Nothing like clueless dweebs...
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[12:03:07]  <MrCooper> ajax: btw, thanks for backporting the EXA fixes!
 [12:03:49]  <ajax^ no problem.  thanks for writing them!
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[12:09:47]  <agd5f> is otaylor's exa glyph stuff gonna be in 1.5?
 [12:10:22]  <MrCooper> don't think so
 [12:10:29]  <ajax> it's not, currently.
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[12:11:33]  <ajax> i don't feel particularly strongly either way about it.  do we consider it an ABI change?  do we consider it stable?  is it enough of a win to justify taking this late in the game?
 [12:18:41]  <fredrikh> there's an EXA bugfix in the transform-proposal branch i think should be cherry picked to the branch: 06e7e1d0486e8c516a9b3219a2c86026f88825fc
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[12:19:52]  <mraudsepp> fredrikh: log tells it's not used by anything?
 [12:21:19]  <MrCooper> ajax: no ABI change, no known breakage, can increase text throughput by several times
 [12:21:28]  <fredrikh> and it won't ever be if that bug isn't fixed :)
 [12:21:53]  <mraudsepp> MrCooper: any idea what my font issues are about..? I should have filed a bug instead of talking on #radeon maybe :)
 [12:21:57]  <MrCooper> still, it's technically a new feature introduced after the freeze
 [12:21:57]  <mraudsepp> (I'm leio)
 [12:22:40]  <MrCooper^ probably still http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15513, I think that's a driver coherency bug
 [12:23:45]  <mraudsepp^ I have had corruptions like http://dev.gentoo.org/~leio/xorg/xf86-video-ati-EXA-glyph-cache-corruption.png for a while
 [12:24:10]  <mraudsepp> but at some point (also quite a while ago), I also started to get weird per-glyph clipping issues that get fixed on redraw
 [12:24:20]  <mraudsepp> (but a lot after the thing shown in the screenie)
 [12:24:52]  <mraudsepp> I'll try to update my git versions to recent at some point and get back on #radeon, makes more sense to know it's still actual
 [12:25:46]  <MrCooper> sounds good
 [12:26:09]  <mraudsepp> the per-glyph problem isn't per glyph in the same way as on those screenshots all "t" are bad
 [12:26:27]  <mraudsepp> I had that too (I had certain characters all turn to a filled box), but that was fixed a while ago, haven't seen that since
 [12:26:50]  <mraudsepp> it's stuff like "====================" in terminal sometimes randomly having the bottom line missing from just one of them, etc
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[12:31:41]  <anholt> ajax: text with owen's changes is 5x faster on my 915-class systems.  it's definitely good, and would go a ways to fixing "amg xorg is slow" complaints.  but yeah, I can't say much on how release-ready other than it's working great on my systems.
 [12:32:12]  <cjb^ any idea what's up with the mesa build?  tinderbox says 300 files changed, and no compiley.
 [12:32:48]  <anholt^ dunno.  I haven't been following master closely.
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[13:06:41]  <JohnFlux> anyone able to get their company to pay me to work on x11 full time? :)
 [13:09:14]  <mraudsepp> hrm, #include <openssl/sha.h> in 1.5 is spreading hate towards me right now
 [13:09:38]  <mraudsepp> will need openssl on a semi-embedded system only cause of xorg-server, should fix that I suppose
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[13:09:55]  <ajax> JohnFlux: if only i had a tenth the hiring reqs i need.
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[13:20:44]  <Mercury> JohnFlux: Hell, I'd go for that if someone was willing to do it.  I'm still trying to convince mine to let me do anything on xorg on company time.
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[13:33:40]  <mraudsepp> any new xf86-video-vesa release for libpciaccess support planned?
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[13:34:37]  <cjb> mraudsepp: vesa head seems to build okay on tinderbox, which implies that it uses pciaccess -- the build would fail if it didn't.  does it not?
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[13:35:04]  <mraudsepp> cjb: there is no released version that works with xorg-server-1.4.99.902, is what I mean
 [13:35:18]  <mraudsepp> last release is two months before it was ported to support pciaccess
 [13:35:30]  <cjb> I see, you're just waiting for a release.
 [13:35:46]  <mraudsepp> rather having to create a live git ebuild now :)
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[13:44:29]  <mraudsepp> though apparently that was a matter of a simple ebuild copy :)
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[13:49:07]  <cjb> Are arch-specific drivers (sun*, intel, geode) expected to compile on other arches?
 [13:49:28]  <daniels^ generally, no
 [13:49:33]  <cjb> sun* and intel compile on ppc, but geode doesn't.  Is it reasonable to say "well, why would you want to compile geode on ppc, go away"?
 [13:50:08]  <mattst88> I'd think that's reasonable
 [13:50:12]  <mraudsepp> it can be good for releng, I heard from somewhere
 [13:50:13]  <cjb> (answer: it's nice to have the ppc tinderbox machine happy with drivers.)
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[13:50:33]  <mattst88> what intel graphics chip works in ppc?
 [13:50:42]  <jcristau> none
 [13:50:48]  <cjb> yeah, spurious tinderbox breakage is the reason I'm asking.  I guess I need to exclude geode from tinderbox on ppc only.
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[13:50:59]  <cjb> mattst88: probably none, but at least it builds.  same for sunffb.
 [13:51:07]  <mraudsepp> or we fix it to work, should be possible, just not much prioritized
 [13:51:19]  <mraudsepp> (work == compile)
 [13:53:33]  <cjb> yes.  I'm wondering whether I should be asking the geode maintainers to do that, and how much effort I should use in doing so.
 [13:53:50]  <ajax> i wouldn't bother.
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[13:54:55]  <idr> mraudsepp: The Intel, Via, and Geode drivers should not be built on PPC.
 [13:55:20]  <mraudsepp^ but it would be nice if the geode driver would be buildable out of the box on amd64
 [13:55:33]  <jcristau^ why?
 [13:55:53]  <CosmicPenguin> It shoudl be able to compile on a multilib box with -m32
 [13:55:54]  <CosmicPenguin> thats reasonable
 [13:56:17]  <mattst88> idr, http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10893
 [13:56:36]  <mraudsepp> jcristau: why not? I can compile it on the host then with the native gcc and not mess with cross-toolchain.
 [13:56:47]  <mattst88> idr, please add any notes that I forgot.
 [13:57:11]  <jcristau> mraudsepp: with -m32, sure
 [13:57:34]  <mraudsepp^ yeah, for amd64 the keyword was "out of the box".
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[13:58:02]  <idr> mattst88: That pretty much covers it.  I added myself to the CC list.
 [13:58:15]  <ajax> but there's no amd64 machine you can buy with geode graphics.
 [13:58:19]  <ajax> for any amount of money.
 [13:58:30]  <ajax> why would you bother trying to build it for amd64?
 [13:58:36]  <CosmicPenguin> s/for/on/
 [13:58:43]  <mraudsepp> yes, the resulting binary wouldn't be used on the amd64
 [13:59:20]  <idr^ And if you don't build it with -m32, it wouldn't be used on any place where the geode chip would be either.
 [14:00:00]  <mraudsepp> it doesn't build without manually passing -m32 at all...
 [14:00:11]  <idr> I think this is another case of nobody caring enough to do the work.  Patches welcome.
 [14:00:22]  <mraudsepp> don't see what the debate is about, it'd be nice, but not in any priority lists
 [14:00:56]  <jcristau^ if you want to build x86 stuff on amd64, it's your job to set -m32, be it for geode or anything else?
 [14:01:25]  <mraudsepp> yes, yes, I'm supposed to be a "resource" for xf86-video-geode per its wiki page whatever that implies, I was just saying it has its uses and getting it to work might be nice, until it isn't, just disable it on tinderbox for non-x86 indeed
 [14:01:34]  <mraudsepp> jcristau: no
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[14:02:40]  <mraudsepp> just disable it on the ppc tinderbox and lets be done with this... it's not important
 [14:03:29]  <daniels> seems to boil down to: is it reasonable to have geode building cross-platform? potentially.  is it worth hanging tinderboxes on? no.
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[14:03:46]  <cjb> works for me.
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[14:04:50]  <mraudsepp> yes, fully agreed on that
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[14:06:45]  <owen> idr: ping
 [14:06:54]  <idr^ Hello.
 [14:07:37]  <owen> apparently we have swiggly lines on our XP10 output...
 [14:07:50]  <owen> with both a cheap 17" LCD and big 1080p display
 [14:08:29]  <owen> they vary in direction...
 [14:09:52]  <owen> any thoughts?
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[14:12:12]  <idr> owen: Swiggly lines?
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[14:12:36]  <owen> idr: or wavy lines, i cant see it, and the iphone isn't picking them up
 [14:12:51]  <owen> and kai f'ing donated tss's camera to an orphanage
 [14:13:41]  <idr> hmm...
 [14:14:30]  <owen> idr @ us. i. com ?
 [14:14:30]  <idr^ I assume this occurs at multiple resolutions...what color depth?
 [14:14:35]  <owen> 24bit depth
 [14:14:36]  <idr^ yeah
 [14:14:39]  <idr> hmm...
 [14:15:06]  <owen> you should have mail
 [14:15:10]  <idr> k
 [14:15:44]  <owen> 16bit depth is garbled until i fix my hack :)
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[14:17:49]  <owen> wait, i never hacked the xgixp driver
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[14:19:52]  <idr> owen: Is it that diagonal interference pattern?  I see that here as well, and I have no ideas about it. :(
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[14:21:46]  <owen> idr: you're joking?
 [14:22:07]  <idr^ eh?
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[14:23:48]  <owen> idr: my thoughts are not appropriate for a public forum
 [14:23:55]  <owen> does XGI know whats up?
 [14:24:11]  <idr^ Now it's my turn...you're joking?
 [14:24:25]  <idr> It took them a year to figure out that byte-swapping was broken in their hardware.
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[14:24:45]  <owen> idr: true, but do they know the issue exists?
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[14:25:15]  <idr> owen: I didn't think it was a big deal (esp. not compared to all the other issues), so I never mentioned it.
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[14:25:38]  <owen> idr: we cant exactly ship a $2000 box with that kind of issue
 [14:26:21]  <idr^ I don't know what to say.
 [14:26:35]  <idr> This is my last week at IBM, and I have a ton of other things to fix with this driver first.
 [14:26:47]  <owen^ sorry for venting at you
 [14:26:53]  <owen> dont mean too
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[14:28:06]  <krh> idr: you're leaving IBM?  where are you going?
 [14:29:06]  <idr^ Some place that does open-source graphics that isn't Redhat. :)
 [14:29:16]  <idr> I'll be making a "formal" announcement next week.
 [14:29:43]  <krh^ exciting :)
 [14:30:01]  <idr^ I think so!  It will be nice to do some 3D stuff again.
 [14:31:34]  <krh^ definitely.  good luck, looking forward to the announcement
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[14:37:53]  <idr> owen: I've pinged XGI.  I'll see what they say.
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[14:41:08]  <owen> thanks idr
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[14:42:22]  <jg> idr: cool....  Looking forward to seeing it...
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[15:23:08]  <owen> dumb question, are there any PCI-E supported by r300_dri still commonly available?
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[15:33:05]  <ajax> owen: pricewatch.com/video_cards/, pick a radeon 9500-9800, x+3 digits, or x+4 digits
 [15:33:42]  <owen> so an X1550 works with DRI now?
 [15:34:23]  <ajax> git master has r500 support, yeah.
 [15:34:29]  <owen> ok
 [15:35:00]  <owen> thanks, the wiki i guess hasn't been updated :)
 [15:35:16]  <ajax> it's still a little raw but rapidly improving.
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[15:57:16]  <drago01> krh: ping
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[15:59:49]  <krh> drago01: pong
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[16:00:35]  <drago01> krh: anything against adding 0.7.6 to f9 updates-testing? seems to be working fine here and some users are requesting it
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[16:01:13]  <krh> drago01: sounds fine
 [16:02:59]  <drago01^ ok
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[16:27:18]  <dberkholz> i've had a major memleak reported in the new pixman
 [16:27:21]  <dberkholz> anyone else seen that?
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[17:01:28]  <vignatti> daniels, whot: seems that inputPending field in xfInfoRec is unused
 [17:01:47]  <vignatti> I don't know if we can nuke it. Maybe it would be an ABI
 [17:02:18]  <vignatti> xf86InfoRec seems to be private for the server though
 [17:02:35]  <vignatti> * ABI break
 [17:04:05]  <ajax> xf86Info is not ABI.
 [17:05:16]  <vignatti^ cause it is internal to the server?
 [17:05:31]  <ajax> that, and because i say so ;)
 [17:05:49]  <vignatti^ okay. I'll nuke
 [17:06:14]  <ajax> and because of the line above it that says "/* Globals that video drivers may not access */"
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[17:06:44]  <ajax> in general, if it's marked _X_EXPORT, or is a data type you can get to from something marked _X_EXPORT, it's ABI
 [17:07:12]  <ajax> that second one is kinda tricky to determine programmatically, i admit.
 [17:07:40]  <jcristau^ vesa needs a release; maybe libx11 from 1.1-branch too (assuming xge won't be in 7.4)
 [17:07:47]  <Mercury+ In theory a tool could parse all the structs to tell you, though that will miss the void * cases.
 [17:07:57]  <ajax> ugh, vesa.
 [17:08:02]  <airlied> should fix the vesa clear screen bong first.
 [17:08:12]  <ajax> and merge all the drugs i've been carrying in fedora for it.
 [17:08:42]  <ajax> turns out it sort of relied on the server to filter the vbe mode pool.  and that's no longer the case.
 [17:09:04]  <ajax> (feature, but a change in behaviour)
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[17:13:46]  <vignatti> humm? two emails from my push?
 [17:15:08]  <bgoglin> ajax: assuming ati gets a new release soon, we'll need one for r128 and mach64 as well
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[18:13:34]  <alanc> don't suppose anyone has op in #xorg to kill the bozo channel-flooding, do they?
 [18:14:25]  <alanc> last I checked mharris owned that channel - should probably get the Board to officially request it for the foundation and assign a non-retired channel owner
 [18:15:01]  <dberkholz^ /query chanserv access #xorg list
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[18:15:36]  <daniels> yeah, mharris is the only one that can modify the list
 [18:15:47]  <daniels> i'll go through the freenode procedure of fail
 [18:16:18]  <alanc> thanks
 [18:22:32]  <daniels> okay, i've gone through the bonghits, hopefully we get #xorg back soon
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[19:57:42]  <airlied> whot: ping
 [20:00:26]  <jcristau> is e6cbb1e1 ok for 1.5-branch?
 [20:00:52]  <jcristau> (pretty trivial, but i'd rather ask)
 [20:01:06]  <airlied^ I'll pull it in now, though really GNU/kFreeBSD could just go die instead
 [20:01:47]  <jcristau> heh
 [20:05:34]  <whot> airlied: pong
 [20:06:02]  <airlied^ so we have this patch in Fedora.
 [20:06:04]  <airlied> http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs.cgi/rpms/xorg-x11-server/F-9/xserver-1.5.0-no-evdev-keyboards-kthnx.patch?rev=1.2&view=markup
 [20:06:13]  <airlied> whot: any ideas on how I should do that now? ajax gone home :)
 [20:07:06]  <whot> why? it doesn't work anymore?
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[20:07:29]  <airlied> whot: the patch doesn't apply anymore.. we don't seem to get the props
 [20:07:38]  <whot> ah. one sec
 [20:09:00]  <whot> so, the correct way AFAIK would be to cancel them out through the fdi file
 [20:09:39]  <airlied^ oh instead of haxoring the server I haxor the hal.
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[20:10:10]  <whot> yeah, you just add something to the fdi file that magically tells hal to ignore input.key
 [20:10:39]  <airlied^ now say I couldn't do that :), how would I butcher the server :)
 [20:11:18]  <whot> I'd say config/hal.c:250 put an strcmp for input.keys
 [20:12:10]  <whot> then free the stuff and goto unwind, that should sort you out
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[20:19:20]  <whot> airlied: actually, a better solution may be to make the server parse an "ignore" property, that can be easily merged for various devices in the fdi
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[20:22:00]  <idr> keithp: Another randr 1.2 question. :)
 [20:22:19]  <idr> I have the DVI and VGA outputs working, but only one CRTC supported.
 [20:22:34]  <keithp^ that isn't a question
 [20:22:36]  <jcristau> ajax: oh, and xtrans needs a 1.3 too, 1.1 and 1.2 were broken, git seems fixed
 [20:22:53]  <idr> keithp: If I just have a monitor connected to the DVI port, xrandr still lists VGA and DVI as outputs.
 [20:23:16]  <keithp^ sure
 [20:23:24]  <keithp> why is that weird?
 [20:23:27]  <idr^ The VGA just gets the default modes, and the DVI starts at 1024x768...assumedly because that's the best both "monitors" can do.
 [20:23:43]  <keithp> oh, you get the VGA as connected
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[20:23:47]  <idr> keithp: How do I make the DVI start at it's native res?
 [20:23:49]  <keithp> do you see DDC on the VGA?
 [20:24:01]  <idr^ I don't think so.  Let me double check.
 [20:24:22]  <keithp> you've got only a DVI connector, right?
 [20:24:43]  <keithp> DVI has only one DDC pair
 [20:25:02]  <keithp> so, the VGA output will need to auto-disable itself if the DVI-D is active
 [20:25:36]  <idr^ There are two connectors, and both are theoretically supportable.  I just need to write more code. :)
 [20:25:55]  <idr> If I connect a monitor to the VGA port, both monitors are correctly detected.
 [20:25:58]  <keithp> heh
 [20:26:18]  <idr> hmm...
 [20:26:19]  <keithp> so, you need to see why the VGA is getting detected when you plug something into the DVI port
 [20:26:33]  <idr^ The output in the X log seems odd to me.
 [20:27:08]  <idr> http://q7.com/~ianr/Xorg.0.log
 [20:28:40]  <airlied> whot: correct answer I can leave to ajax :), I want hacks for now :)
 [20:31:55]  <keithp> idr: why is that odd looking?
 [20:32:03]  <keithp> Other than having detected three devices?
 [20:33:34]  <idr^ Around line 280 it says there's nothing connected to VGA.
 [20:33:37]  <whot> airlied: correct version is open the /etc/hal/.../fdi file, remove the lines that match against Linux and use the evdev driver for keyboards
 [20:33:42]  <idr> "No DDC signal"
 [20:33:47]  <whot> airlied: no hacking required
 [20:34:27]  <idr> keithp: Then a few lines later it says "Output VGA connected".
 [20:34:49]  <airlied> whot: well I need to do a hal release as well then :)
 [20:35:07]  <keithp> idr: sure, VGA monitors don't have to have DDC
 [20:35:17]  <jcristau> what's the issue with evdev for keyboards, out of curiosity?
 [20:35:20]  <keithp> idr: so, presumably your driver detects the VGA using some other scheme, like load detection
 [20:35:21]  <whot> airlied: ah. so you want it fixed in Fedora, not just on your box then :)
 [20:35:33]  <airlied^ yeah I'm trying to push 1.5 master into F9 :)
 [20:36:08]  <airlied> jcristau: "Hrngh argh hatred." is the patch description :)
 [20:36:50]  <idr> keithp: That's done by xf86OutputFuncsRec.detect, right?
 [20:36:56]  <keithp> yes
 [20:37:31]  <jcristau> airlied: yeah, i think i've seen that. didn't find it very clear, though :)
 [20:37:43]  <idr> keithp: My implementation of that just looks for xf86I2CProbeAddress(pI2C, 0xA0) to return success.
 [20:38:06]  <whot> airlied: you might want to talk to ajax whether this patch is still necessary
 [20:38:42]  <jcristau+ our hal maintainer just moved the x11-input.fdi file out of the way when we switched to 1.4 because people started yelling all over the place that their keymaps were broken
 [20:38:50]  <keithp> idr: then that appears to succeed, even with DDC disconnected
 [20:39:21]  <whot> jcristau: is that still the case with the xkb option parsing patch?
 [20:39:29]  <idr> keithp: For the win.
 [20:39:57]  <jg_> evening keithp
 [20:39:57]  <idr> keithp: Okay....I'll poke around a bit more.  I might pester you again later.
 [20:40:08]  <jcristau> whot: not sure. the issue was that 1) instead of the settings from xorg.conf people got a us layout, and 2) gnome setting xkbmodel to pc10x instead of evdev
 [20:40:11]  <jcristau> iirc
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[20:40:35]  <airlied> my memory involves pressing up arrow and getting printscreen
 [20:40:42]  <jcristau^ right
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[20:41:00]  <whot> jcristau: 1) was fixed a while ago
 [20:41:34]  <jcristau> i think 1) just needs some packaging scripts to create a keymap.fdi from the xorg.conf settings
 [20:41:37]  <whot> airlied: that's a metacity issue. it doesn't reload the keymap, although I'm not sure whether that's metacity's fault or ours
 [20:41:55]  <jcristau> and 2) might be fixed by evdev refusing to change the xkbmodel
 [20:42:37]  <whot^ sorry, correct. I was referring to the patch that ignored the fdi settings and used the hal internal settings instead.
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[21:16:46]  <airlied> whot: okay I still fail, I'm not seeing input.keys anywhere all my info.capabilities are (null)
 [21:20:10]  <whot> one sec
 [21:21:05]  <airlied> I just did ErrorF("key is %s %s\n", psi_key, get_prop_string(hal_ctx, udi, psi_key));
 [21:21:17]  <airlied> and dumped out all the key/prop, but I think I fail to understand hal.
 [21:22:36]  <airlied> ah property string list..
 [21:24:57]  <whot> yeah, can have multiple capabilities
 [21:27:24]  <airlied^ I think I can hack it now :)
 [21:27:49]  <whot^ cool
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[22:34:14]  <jcristau> alanc: 7.4 will probably release with pixman 0.10, so #16312 shouldn't be a blocker i think?
 [22:34:50]  <alanc> oh, thought we were going with latest
 [22:36:21]  <jcristau> the announcement said 'This is a development version leading up to a stable 0.12.0 release'
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[23:08:23]  <spstarr> Might it be a good idea to wikify all the registers/documentation for cards for people to help? a detailed API of X, like Gtk+/Qt has?
 [23:10:22]  <airlied^ noe.
 [23:10:44]  <spstarr> bad idea why?
 [23:11:13]  <airlied> the X API isn't in the regiseter docs.
 [23:12:06]  <spstarr> I meant, the video card registers for ati, etc  and X API both wikified
[23:12:25]  <airlied> well we should have links to register doc guides on the wiki.
 [23:13:13]  <airlied> I think the effort to docbook X stuff is helpful
 [23:13:24]  <spstarr> we have .ps files for Xlib and others right still? I guess is there's enough to turn into a dockbook? (manually)
 [23:14:11]  <spstarr> s/is/if
 [23:14:39]  <spstarr> I could spend some doxyfying X code
 [23:15:15]  <spstarr> that would be quite helpful for people, but that will take an effort of people know what the functions do, what the arguments/parameters are
 [23:15:32]  <spstarr> If people are willing to sit/spend time with me, I'd be glad to help doxyfy x
 [23:16:40]  <spstarr> even if I don't know X code, the least I can do is help document the codebase
 [23:16:55]  <airlied^ the codebase is huge, you would need to find a place to start.
 [23:17:09]  <airlied> that a) you understand, b)  makes sense to document.
 [23:17:48]  <spstarr> yes, but that's where people like you can help a group of people like me and others know what makes sense to document
 [23:18:17]  <airlied> the problem is none of it makes sense to me to document, I've no idea about 90% of it and no wish to understand it :)
 [23:18:26]  <spstarr> hehe
 [23:18:28]  <airlied> the thing is people think you need to understand all of X to work on it.
 [23:18:41]  <spstarr> thats a big myth :(
 [23:18:46]  <airlied> you don't, you just need to not be lazy and afraid.
 [23:19:30]  <airlied> once you learn to ignore all the bits of X you don't need to know about it all becomes much easier.
 [23:19:41]  <airlied> maybe an intro to what stuff lives where in the tree might be helpful.
 [23:19:44]  <whot> spstarr: e.g. half the time airlied has no clue what I'm doing and I have no clue what he's doing.
 [23:19:51]  <airlied> what each subdir contains.
 [23:20:04]  <airlied> whot: looking at my hal patch this morning, I've no idea what I'm doing either :)
 [23:20:09]  <spstarr> :)
 [23:20:17]  <whot> airlied: would have been the same with me :) did you get the patch done?
 [23:20:53]  <whot> spstarr: IMHO, the external APIs may be interesting for developers. e.g. input drivers have a number of hooks into the server, that are all fairly undocumented
 [23:20:58]  <airlied^ http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs.cgi/rpms/xorg-x11-server/F-9/xserver-1.5.0-no-evdev-keyboards-kthnx.patch?rev=1.3&view=markup
 [23:21:04]  <whot> spstarr: getting some doxygen there may help
 [23:21:12]  <airlied> the thing is with X you have client and server to start off.
 [23:21:25]  <airlied> most server hackers ignore client side and vice versa.
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[23:21:33]  <airlied> then you have input vs output hackers.
 [23:21:43]  <whot> (where the input hackers are the cool ones)
 [23:22:26]  <airlied^ you'll soon feel the power of the dark side
 [23:22:35]  <whot> 'fraid so
 [23:22:51]  <spstarr> hmmm
 [23:22:57]  <airlied> then you have the whole DRI stack, which drags in kernel/drm/mesa
 [23:23:08]  <airlied> and then people get scared and hide.
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[23:23:46]  <spstarr> heh
 [23:23:54]  <spstarr> well then there's EXA/XAA
[23:26:49]  <spstarr> there is no diagram to explain how things all flow together is there?
 [23:28:00]  <spstarr> I can sense we'd need a lot of people to help document because of the numerous Xserver subdirs from framebuffer code, etc
 [23:28:02]  <airlied^ people start doing them every so often.
 [23:28:10]  <spstarr> hmm
 [23:28:34]  <airlied> but the diagram quickly gets out of control and out of date
 [23:29:38]  <spstarr> maybe the big problem is the fundamental changes you, ajax etc are doing to the Xserver itself, if there will ever be a time when the code will begin to somewhat normalize?
 [23:30:00]  <spstarr> we all know X needed/needs changes and you're all doing that
 [23:30:42]  <airlied^ we don't make tht many fundamental changes.
 [23:30:42]  <spstarr> so let's get rid of XAA  ;-) throw out the old ISA (PCI video cards)
 [23:30:52]  <airlied^ ajax rm's more code than adds.
 [23:31:02]  <spstarr> I notice
[23:31:15]  <spstarr> but he will reach a point when he can no longer rm code...
 [23:31:16]  <airlied> the only fundamental things done recently were MPX, security and randr really
 [23:31:38]  <airlied> spstarr: we threw out ISA cards agaes ago
 [23:31:54]  <spstarr> oh :)
 [23:32:07]  <spstarr> so can XAA go next?
 [23:32:10]  <airlied> XAA isn't for ISA cards.
 [23:32:24]  <airlied> it probably won't ever die though.
 [23:32:28]  <spstarr> for PCI+AGP
 [23:32:42]  <airlied> but XAA isn't sprawled throughout the server.
 [23:32:45]  <airlied> its just one subdir
 [23:32:57]  <spstarr> well, thats good didnt know
 [23:32:58]  <airlied> thats my point when you work on X you need to ignore the bits you don't understand.
 [23:33:01]  <airlied> not understand them.
 [23:33:15]  <spstarr> people just dont know what to ignore
 [23:33:56]  <whot^ my tipp. rather than trying to figure out how to do it best, do it badly first and then improve it. any decent documentation is good, and nobody expects a full API doc for X to pop up overnight.
 [23:34:11]  <spstarr^ of course
 [23:34:13]  <airlied> I'd start with a git trees overview.
 [23:34:24]  <airlied> then the server tree overview
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[23:34:56]  <spstarr> whot: do you want to work on that together? and get more people involved?
 [23:35:10]  <spstarr> so we can get the documentation out
 [23:35:23]  <spstarr> a Xorg documentation team
 [23:35:30]  <whot^ no.
 [23:35:38]  <airlied> we don't need a team, just build it and they will come
 [23:35:49]  <whot> spstarr: I'll certainly help, but if we start to have a "Xorg doc team" wel
 [23:35:55]  <spstarr> one person can't build Rome though :)
 [23:36:02]  <whot> we'll run into the typical "somebody else's problem" issue
 [23:36:05]  <airlied> spstarr: only one person ever has
 [23:36:22]  <spstarr> whot: you can correct that
 [23:36:23]  <airlied^ you ain't building rome you need to just lay the first few blocks.
 [23:36:48]  <whot> seriously, start a wiki page, start documenting what you feel like it, once there's something announce it on the list
 [23:37:12]  <whot> ppl may start contributing then
 [23:37:28]  <spstarr^ well, true, I can look at code but one has to know what the code/functions do
 [23:37:38]  <whot> having a dedicated team leads to the assumption that it's being done and noone needs to help
 [23:37:39]  <spstarr> some I can help by the name of the function
 [23:37:51]  <spstarr> whot: you divvy up section for people to do
 [23:38:06]  <airlied^ start with the highelevel overview.
 [23:38:07]  <spstarr> whot: perhaps a Fedora like meeting structure
[23:38:08]  <airlied^ work down.
 [23:38:11]  <whot> start with what airlied said above, a description of the git repos, a description of the tree
 [23:39:17]  <spstarr^ all the Xorg specific git repos yes
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[23:40:24]  <spstarr> looking at the git repos now
 [23:40:57]  <spstarr> a summary of which git repos are part of the Xorg family 
[23:41:48]  <airlied^ and what the app/proto/lib/driver categoires means
 [23:41:58]  <spstarr> sure
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[23:42:13]  <whot> spstarr: explain _why_ x is so hard to build, because it just depends on too many different modules
 [23:43:10]  <spstarr> its not hard to build, make World was hard to build tweaking old .cf files..
 [23:44:03]  <spstarr> but lemme start a wiki page see what I can do
 [23:44:32]  <whot^ it's hard to build if you expect to just "git clone xserver". seriously, I get a lot of emails complaining about that
 [23:45:09]  <spstarr> we have a build page on the wiki, i remember it when the autoconf process was going on
 [23:46:20]  <whot> we do. but it doesn't seem to be read or understood.
 [23:46:41]  <spstarr> !
 [23:46:56]  <spstarr> perhaps we need a wiki page reorg?
 [23:47:06]  * spstarr would love to steal Fedora's admin team :)
 [23:47:28]  <spstarr> the wiki is so inviting, colourful
[23:47:52]  <spstarr> funny but people like seeing stuff like that, makes them think a project is organized
 [23:48:09]  <fcarrijo> spstarr I'm just starting to get acquainted with the code base, but it would be a pleasure if I could help the documentation efforts anyway
 [23:48:37]  <spstarr^ let's create #xorg-doc channel if one exists and attract people to help
 [23:48:53]  <spstarr> I will join from work also
 [23:49:12]  <fcarrijo> spstarr cool
 [23:49:42]  <whot> spstarr: don't split out until you have a userbase worth splitting out
 [23:50:19]  <spstarr> well, from people in  here we can have a small channel and busily work away
[23:50:30]  <spstarr> no chanserv
[23:50:39]  <spstarr> +s
 [23:50:49]  <airlied> keep it in here, so others can see it.
 [23:50:52]  <spstarr> ok
 [23:51:07]  <spstarr> fcarrijo: which parts are you looking at right now?
[23:52:22]  <fcarrijo> spstarr i've been skimming the source code with no special atention to any part of it
 [23:52:30]  <spstarr> it would also be good to know what parts ajax etc are going to rip out so we don't try to document stuff thats going away ;-)
 [23:52:49]  <airlied^ start with a highlevel, work your way down.
 [23:53:05]  <airlied> I seriously doubt you'll hit anything that is intended for removal.
 [23:53:11]  <spstarr> well the git stuff i'll document first
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[23:53:57]  <spstarr> is there any plans from the Xorg admins to pretty wiki.x.org?
 [23:54:04]  <spstarr> or move to mediawiki?
 [23:54:15]  <airlied> no plans for wiki migration at all
 [23:54:41]  <spstarr> i suppose that can be done later if needed
 [23:55:41]  <spstarr> its the presentation of the information that can appeal to new developers
 [23:56:08]  <whot^ it's the content that is presented that _does_ appeal to new developers
 [23:56:16]  <spstarr> yep
 [23:57:00]  <whot> so content first, presentation later.
 [23:57:03]  <spstarr> does it make sense though for Xorg itself to formulate into a Fedora like structure in terms of administration? sub-groups working on tasks?
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[23:57:33]  <airlied> spstarr: no.
 [23:57:39]  <airlied> we don't have enough people to fill one group
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[23:58:33]  <murrant> keithp: ping
 [23:58:39]  <spstarr> ok
 [23:58:52]  <spstarr> i guess thats all moot then :)
 [23:59:01]  <murrant> xrandr dev: ping :)
 [23:59:11]  <spstarr> if we get the content, the users will come, then structures can be changed after
 [23:59:47]  <spstarr> its like getting the momentum started, then it will pick up pace
----- [2008-06-12] -----
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[00:00:49]  <spstarr> so tomorrow I'm gonna begin a wiki page and start documenting the git repos, what they are, what needs them, etc and get help if i get stuck by looking at some code, or asking people on here
[00:01:03]  <murrant> I'm trying to track down some randr buginess, but really need some assistance ofrom someone knowledgeable on the topic
 [00:01:25]  <spstarr> once that's done start looking at the libs libSM  session (management)
 [00:01:26]  <spstarr> etc
 [00:01:32]  ***  mattst88 has left chat #xorg-devel ("Leaving").
[00:02:19]  <spstarr> even though libSM wont help you with writing a video driver :-)
 [00:02:33]  <spstarr> if we're gonna document, document all of Xorg's parts
[00:03:06]  <fcarrijo> spstarr Personally, I guess the problem of attracting devopers lies not in the lack of documentation, but in the way it is organized
 [00:03:24]  <spstarr> yes that's true
 [00:03:33]  <spstarr> fcarrijo: there are .ps files explaining the protocol and other things
 [00:03:42]  <spstarr> but there is no one stop shop to get it ALL
 [00:03:53]  <fcarrijo> spstarr exactly
 [00:04:09]  <spstarr> something like Qt's documentation is spectacular (with examples) because it makes it so easy to know what you need
 [00:04:10]  <fcarrijo> spstarr something more digestable
 [00:04:27]  <fcarrijo> spstarr yeap
 [00:04:30]  <airlied> spstarr: Qt is a developer API
 [00:04:47]  <spstarr> we dont have an Xorg developer API though
 [00:04:56]  <airlied^ we do, there are books about it
 [00:05:06]  <airlied> the Xlib API is covered in many books.
 [00:05:14]  <spstarr> yes Xlib
 [00:05:22]  <airlied> as I said QT is a library only, you need API docs to write QT apps.
 [00:05:45]  <airlied> X libs have those docs, but we don't want X app developers as much as we want X internals developers
 [00:05:49]  <fcarrijo> airlied I've been looking for Adrian Nye's Volume Zero, but had no luck
 [00:05:54]  <spstarr> so then i shouldn't bother with libSM, libXt etc  and just focus on Xserver,
[00:06:05]  <airlied^ depends on what you are trying to do.
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[00:06:13]  <murrant> spstarr: right now I would kill for some randr documentation :( so I wouldn't have to beg for assistance ;)
 [00:06:19]  <airlied+ make more people write toolkits or help make X.org better.
 [00:06:22]  <spstarr> my goal is to fully document the Xserver
[00:06:24]  <airlied> murrant: what bits?
 [00:06:35]  <spstarr> no more toolkits! :)
 [00:06:46]  <airlied> comparing X to Fedora or QT is useless.
 [00:06:49]  <murrant^ XRRRootToScreen
 [00:07:02]  <jcristau> spstarr: you don't want to document it 'fully'
 [00:07:07]  <airlied> hal of X is more kernel like than anything else, and half of it is app libs.
 [00:07:13]  <airlied> half of X even.
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[00:07:31]  <murrant> airlied: Qt uses this to return a screen when resized, but this function doesn't seem to be aware of randr 1.2 stuff
 [00:07:31]  <spstarr+ ok so then, I need to know which X libs a user needs to know if writing a video driver, Xcomposite?
 [00:07:49]  <spstarr> or we dont care about any of the libs outside of Xserver
 [00:08:06]  <airlied^ no libs.
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[00:08:09]  <spstarr> if those are all application libs
[00:08:09]  <airlied> for writing a driver.
 [00:08:10]  <spstarr> ok
 [00:08:30]  <spstarr> so its all self-contained in Xorg + mesa/DRI(2)+DRM/hal
 [00:08:37]  <spstarr> depending on if you want 3D etc
 [00:08:51]  <spstarr> xorg -> Xserver
 [00:09:02]  <airlied> three bits, Xorg, drm and Mesa for writing a complete video driver
 [00:09:02]  <murrant> airled: so XRRRootToScreen(dpy, event->window) always returns 0, unexpectedly
 [00:09:17]  <spstarr> ok so are the drm and mesa parts documented?
 [00:09:25]  <spstarr> then I can just focus on Xorg
 [00:09:45]  <airlied> murrant: 0 is correct, there is only one screen
 [00:10:03]  <airlied> spstarr: start with Xorg.
 [00:10:30]  <airlied> there are lots of out-of-date docs on DRI architecture.
 [00:11:05]  <spstarr> hmm
 [00:11:36]  <spstarr> then I will tomorrow break down Xserver subdirs and explain what they are/do on the wiki
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[00:12:56]  <murrant> airlied: so am I just confusing two different things called screen (when you have multiple screens each has an int referring to it)
 [00:13:16]  <airlied^ yes there is an X protocol screen.
 [00:13:23]  <airlied> with randr you only get one of those.
 [00:14:03]  <murrant^ well that is very non-obvious to someone who doesn't know much about X, TYVM
 [00:14:51]  <murrant> I think the other screen I am thinking of has to do with xinerama
 [00:15:12]  <airlied^ yup xinerama gives you two protocol screens
 [00:17:17]  <whot^ patch looks ok btw
 [00:18:00]  <airlied^ you should've seen the first one, I missed some brackets and was cursing dbus :)
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[00:21:38]  <whot> hehe
 [00:21:56]  <whot> not sure if you need to free the prop list, but looking at the libhal sources it doesn't seem necessary
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[00:50:12]  <tjaalton> whot, airlied, jcristau: setting the kblayout on the fly via a HAL script should be possible, but I couldn't get it to work a while ago
 [00:55:48]  <tjaalton> will be trying again soon
 [00:57:20]  <whot^ there was a bug in the server that it woulnd't honor the XkbLayout/Xkb* settings. this has been fixed
 [00:58:14]  <tjaalton> see http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2008-February/010778.html
 [00:59:06]  <tjaalton> the problem was that hald refused to run the script..
 [00:59:37]  <tjaalton> hmm, that post doesn't say it, but I also tried to set 'sleep N' to make sure hald was running
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[02:40:12]  <dagb> airlied | spstarr: would it be useful to remove out-of-date docs, or at least add notes explaining that it is out-of-date?
 [02:40:55]  <whot^ yes
 [02:41:10]  <whot> adding a note anyway, unless there is documentation that replaces it
 [02:41:53]  <dagb> I guess I shouldn't have phrased that as a question. It was more like a suggestion for a task I have no intention of performing myself.  :-)
 [02:42:45]  <dagb> as I would have no idea if a certain bit of info is correct or not.
 [02:43:14]  <spstarr> wiki begins today sleep now.
 [02:43:22]  <dagb> good night
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[03:34:55]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[03:34:55]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[03:34:55]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aaronp agd5f aggelos ahf airlied alanc-away alanc_away alastair Amaranth anholt arekm b0le bartman Battousai bbyer bemasc bernie bgoglin bobbens bryce caro[vtorri] cbmuser cbrake_away chpo_work cjb Company compnerd crossbuilder_ ctyler cworth dagb daniels dante darktama dberkholz desrt Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds dvandyk dwmw2_gone dyek dyek2 eboettcher egbert_away emmes fcarrijo frenkel gabriel__ geaaru glisse gordonj gustaf1 hachi halfline idr Ingmar jacotton jbarnes jcristau jg JohnFlux keithp kem KRec kringa leio libv Liskni_si londo marcheu math_b Mercury mjg59 mmc mnem0 MrCooper murrant mvo ndim nolan nomego OgreBoy olih Ori_B otavio PauloZanoni pdurao pete__c psyquark Q-FUNK raster revx rvalles sangu soren sputnik|AU svu sxpert t4bz TBBle tcoppi The_Paya tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti vuntz Wallbraker wereHamster whot z3ro Zeddie Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[03:51:24]  <dberkholz> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=x_server_contributors&num=1 is a pretty nice story
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[03:52:58]  <MrCooper> dberkholz: I might agree if the methodology wasn't so flawed
 [03:53:06]  <dberkholz> go gentoo, not quite the worst distro
 [03:53:16]  <dberkholz> the one big method thing i noticed is that people switch companies over time...
 [03:53:28]  <MrCooper> exactly
 [03:53:41]  <MrCooper> that alone makes it pretty much meaningless IMO
 [03:53:53]  <dberkholz> makes the company part less meaningful
 [03:53:57]  <dberkholz> people part is still perfectly good
 [03:54:31]  <MrCooper> true
 [03:55:34]  <dberkholz> i found the alphabetical sorting pretty worthless, too.
 [03:55:58]  <dberkholz> if they'd at least used tables, i have a magic extension to let me resort by arbitrary columns
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[04:03:20]  <dberkholz> i posted on their forums saying so.
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[04:20:49]  <whot> MrCooper: how would I try EXA?
 [04:21:07]  <MrCooper^ Option "AccelMethod" "EXA"
 [04:21:42]  <whot^ thx. one sec
 [04:22:30]  <whot> nice.
 [04:22:32]  <whot> works
 [04:24:19]  <whot> thx for the quick fix
 [04:26:19]  <daniels> MrCooper: eh, it might not be perfect, but it's still very interesting.  (of course, i'm not arguing with the result.)
 [04:26:43]  <whot^ you're just proud you made 2nd place :)
 [04:27:05]  <MrCooper+ I'm mostly concerned about the lousy association with organizations, as that's what people seem most interested in
 [04:27:43]  <MrCooper> whot: cool, but that takes a different code path; we still need to make sure there are no ioctl failures with XAA
 [04:28:08]  <whot^ ok. but that's something for tomorrow, I'm going home now
 [04:30:42]  <MrCooper> k
 [04:33:36]  <daniels> whot: yeah, i'm happy to have beaten out ajax, but seriously, fair effort on getting #1 while having contributed for a shorter time than everyone going back to #6 or so (iirc it was you, me, ajax, anholt, keithp, eamon).
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[04:34:25]  <daniels> MrCooper: even then it's pretty much impossible to tell.  you get granularity and it tells you that all my 2004-2006 commits were sponsored by canonical, except that i was explicitly forbidden from doing x development on work time.
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[04:35:18]  <daniels> MrCooper: and now, i couldn't tell you off the top of my head what the split is between nokia-sponsored and personal development.  (even timestamps don't help; sometimes i've had a chat with my boss in the morning, while holding breakfast from the cafe downstairs, and been pondering going home).
 [04:35:34]  <daniels> so if you're looking for accuracy there, you've already lost. :)
 [04:35:43]  <MrCooper^ that sounds like support for my point :)
 [04:36:39]  <MrCooper> still, e.g. LWN seemed to do a better job for kernel contributors
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[04:38:42]  <daniels> MrCooper: well, for some people you're always going to lose.  the best approximation of corporate association you could take for me would be to say 5-10% is nokia, or something like that.  others will have similarly complex and arbitrary metrics, i'd imagine.
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[04:51:19]  <CE> Hi
 [04:51:47]  <CE> Is it possible to adjust gamma when rendering rgb-text with XRender?
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[05:01:08]  <frenkel> if somebody wants to get started in helping x.org development, where should he start?
 [05:02:12]  <JohnFlux^ start by trying to build it :-D
 [05:03:42]  <frenkel> ha, i've alread done that a few times
 [05:04:02]  <daniels^ there are a few bugs on bugzilla tagged 'janitor', but is there anything you want to help out with in particular?
 [05:04:02]  <JohnFlux+ imho, the best thing is to document what is already there :-/
 [05:04:39]  <daniels+ the coding tends to fall into either fix bugs (which can require a hell of a lot of knowledge about internals), or delete/fix horrible code (sometimes ditto).  non-coding, there's documentation, wiki, bug triage (which we desperately need), etc.
 [05:05:02]  <daniels> if you feel like fixing non-janitor bugs, the list of 7.4 blockers would be a good place to start.
 [05:06:37]  <frenkel^ ok, thanks, although i can't start right away
 [05:06:52]  <daniels^ no problem
 [05:06:57]  <frenkel^ i'm in a development county now, with quite horrible internet and stuff
 [05:08:02]  <daniels> yeah, i grew up in rural australia ...
 [05:10:33]  <frenkel^ i'm in tanzania, at the university of dar es salaam and we share internet with abou 1000 ppl
 [05:10:56]  <frenkel> (it's less then 20mbps i think)
 [05:11:43]  <frenkel> daniels: but coding: bugfixes and bug triage is the best to help you guys out?
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[05:16:18]  <whot> frenkel: actually, testing too. I dont think pre-releases get enough exposure
 [05:16:51]  <frenkel> what: ok
 [05:18:18]  <frenkel> i'll see if i can do some stuff here, and when i get home (in holland, where i have access to a real linux box, i only have my mac with me here)
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[05:20:17]  <daniels> frenkel: nice! fond (ish) memories of the days when you were on dialup with 300ms latency to the west coast us to start with, and then someone sunk an anchor through the main cable, so suddenly you had >80% packet loss and >2sec ping times to _anywhere_ international. :)
 [05:20:21]  <frenkel> ha, even creating a bugzilla account is hard with this internet connection :p
 [05:20:38]  <daniels^ but yeah, coding (inc. bug fixing), bug triage, and testing.
 [05:21:36]  <frenkel^ o=]
 [05:22:24]  <frenkel> today is a good day: http://pastebin.com/d2a4e7ede
 [05:23:31]  <frenkel> anayways, i'm off for lunch
 [05:25:40]  <daniels> awesome
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[05:34:25]  <whot> daniels: can you punch the wiki please?
 [05:34:41]  <whot> maybe it wakes up then
 [05:35:26]  <daniels^ annarchy is shot
 [05:35:35]  <daniels> it's taking me about a year to ssh in
 [05:35:46]  <Dr_Jakob^ new 3D docs?
 [05:36:55]  <daniels^ no, it does this all the time, and we're yet to work out why
 [05:37:23]  <Dr_Jakob> lovely.
 [05:37:45]  <daniels> but yeah, my guess is that its load right now is somewhere above 400
 [05:38:14]  <daniels> it's gone through it's 'fine then, i won't respond to ping' stage, and now it's at its 'i'll have a console by the time you're done with lunch' stage.
 [05:38:26]  <daniels^ ssh root.annarchy.freedesktop.org
 [05:38:26]  <daniels> Enter passphrase for key '/home/daniels/.ssh/psyence-annarchyR':
[05:38:26]  <daniels> Read from remote host annarchy.freedesktop.org: Connection reset by peer
 [05:38:26]  <daniels> Connection to annarchy.freedesktop.org closed.
 [05:38:30]  <daniels> \o/
 [05:39:01]  <Dr_Jakob> nice
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[05:47:33]  <monzie> Hi all
 [05:47:46]  <monzie> I am a newbie ; I want to help in Xorg development effort
 [05:47:59]  <monzie> I could not find much useful information in the wiki pages for users
[05:48:07]  <monzie> ( How to check out sources etc..
[05:48:27]  <monzie> I am KDE developer ; I want to contribute to X.org
 [05:48:46]  <monzie> Any help ( or pointers to RTFM the correct page ) would be useful
 [05:49:02]  <arekm> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/
 [05:49:05]  <daniels> i would give you pointers, but our web server is down
 [05:49:09]  <daniels> (that includes gitweb)
 [05:49:46]  <arekm> that server fails so often, overloaded?
 [05:50:04]  <daniels> yeah, we're working on getting it upgraded
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[07:17:29]  <CE> Hi
 [07:18:05]  <CE> Is it possible to use gamma-correction when rendering rgb-text with XRender?
 [07:27:54]  <CE> the reason I ask is because Java does it
 [07:28:17]  <CE> however I was not able to find any function which would allow to talk about it to XRender
 [07:30:41]  <whot> ajax: FWIW I think evdev is good enough for 2.0. I'll cut a release whenever you want me to
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[07:59:50]  <CE> well, maybe its not possible at all :-/
 [08:00:29]  <CE> will the glyph-cache improvements be already in 7.4?
 [08:01:29]  <jcristau> <1213217868.28032.112.camel@localhost.localdomain> says yes
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[08:01:56]  <CE> cool :)
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[09:27:55]  <agd5f> daniels: do you know that dates for XDS yet?
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[09:55:19]  <daniels> agd5f: sep 3rd-5th.  announce coming today.
 [10:01:01]  <agd5f^ awesome!  thanks
 [10:02:04]  <Dr_Jakob+ as soon as the server wakes up?
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[10:02:51]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: ajax is rebooting annarchy
 [10:02:57]  <daniels> agd5f: np
 [10:04:15]  <Dr_Jakob^ drastic measures.
 [10:04:42]  <agd5f> sorry about that, I think it's probably my fault
 [10:05:00]  <daniels^ nah, i don't think it was that -- it just occasionally dies horribly
 [10:05:02]  <daniels> how big was the pdf?
 [10:06:50]  <agd5f> 1.5 MB
 [10:11:06]  <glisse> .win 5
 [10:11:20]  <ajax> christing ilo
 [10:11:29]  <ajax> hp should be ashamed
 [10:11:32]  <daniels> agd5f: yeah, that's no problem, really
 [10:11:38]  <daniels> ajax: what's going wrong?
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[10:11:47]  <daniels> ajax: oh, the power thing
 [10:11:57]  <daniels> yeah, i really don't know what's up with that.  power off is no good, try 'power cold' or something.
 [10:12:02]  <daniels> or just use the web interface, that works.
 [10:12:21]  <ajax> well the machine's still running
 [10:12:28]  <ajax> because shutdown -r now _timed_ _out_
 [10:12:34]  <daniels> annarchy is awesome.
 [10:12:42]  <daniels> 'power cold' should axe it
 [10:12:46]  <daniels> or there's some way to reset it too
 [10:12:53]  <daniels> i wonder if there's updated ilo firmware we lack
 [10:14:45]  <ajax> i no longer believe in ilo.  we'd be better served to just run annarchy under kvm and let the host OS be the ilo.
 [10:15:52]  <daniels> yeah good idea, maybe we could use a rock-solid reliable host os like lin-oh wait
 [10:16:08]  <ajax> although i'm pretty sure these machines predate vmx
 [10:16:28]  <ajax> given the choice between linux and ilo...
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[10:17:00]  <daniels> ilo _usually_ doesn't die.  apart from the remcons thing.  that's its compelling feature.  terrible, but reliable except for the bits we know about.
 [10:17:12]  <daniels> whereas we know linux will randomly fail all the time.
 [10:18:12]  <ajax> i thought i'd throttled apache on annarchy to not start so many instances
 [10:20:37]  <ajax> what i really need here is a power strip i can telnet into
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[10:24:59]  <ajax> there.  finally.
 [10:30:54]  <glisse> agd5f: btw the isa doc is the same than the one in the stream windows sdk ?
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[10:32:14]  <ajax> daniels: the dxremaind/dyremaind patch isn't ABI, right?
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[10:35:21]  <jcristau> ajax: re: the socket handoff stuff, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xcb/3271
 [10:35:37]  <jcristau> but that's still not committed, so meh
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[10:47:39]  <agd5f> glisse: yeah
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[11:04:02]  <dr-xorg> Hi.
 [11:04:02]  <dr-xorg> I tried to take a look at how xserver-1.5-branch looks on intel965GM; the mesa I chose was the 7.1rc1 tagged one; the xserver-compile failed with:
 [11:04:02]  <dr-xorg> "/usr/src/Mesa-7.1rc1/src/glx/x11/indirect_dispatch.c not found"
 [11:04:44]  <dr-xorg> this is neither in the 7.1rc1 nor in the master branch...  ?
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[11:05:48]  <dr-xorg> is 1.5-branch not ready to compile against Mesa-7.1/master ?
 [11:07:28]  <ajax> probably not.
 [11:08:24]  <dr-xorg^ thx.. read your mail in xorg@ and thought I take a look, regarding mesa-bugs for our setup ...
 [11:08:24]  <dr-xorg> will try again later ...
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[12:23:02]  <daniels> ajax: where by 'isn't ABI', you mean 'drivers are still fine', yeah
 [12:27:18]  <tilman> is the server supposed to depend on an apparently unreleased version of inputproto?
 [12:27:52]  <tilman> err, i'm talking about master
 [12:29:05]  <daniels> you may be conflating 'supposed to' and 'does'
 [12:30:09]  <tilman> it does depend on it, but iirc module a shouldn't depend on an unreleased version of module b, no?
 [12:32:33]  <jcristau> only if you want to release module a, i think
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[12:32:49]  <jcristau> at least that seems to be how it's used
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[12:37:07]  <tilman> jcristau: aah, right. that makes sense :)
 [12:41:51]  <jcristau> and annarchy seems to be up in la-la-land again
 [12:42:52]  <daniels> shocked, i tell you.
 [12:43:01]  * ajax shakes fist
 [12:44:00]  <CosmicPenguin> Probably trying to get tickets to the Laker game
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[12:45:57]  <dberkholz> i can't get to cgit or gitweb
 [12:47:53]  <jcristau^ yeah, see above
 [12:48:37]  <dberkholz> i attepmted to see above, guess i didn't read the right 5 lines =)
 [12:49:09]  <daniels> ajax: you ilo'ing, or should i?
 [12:49:14]  <jcristau> dberkholz: annarchy is on strike today
 [12:50:11]  <daniels> it's setting cars on fire because someone asked it to work more than 35 hours per week
 [12:52:38]  <glisse> :)
 [12:53:02]  <glisse> daniels: we don't burn cars anymore, gaz is to expensive nowadays ;)
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[12:53:14]  <ajax> daniels: go for it.
 [12:53:24]  <daniels^ coolio
 [12:53:31]  <daniels> glisse: heh, damn.  what do the youths do to pass the time?
 [12:53:39]  <daniels> JESUS THIS IS SLOW.
 [12:54:06]  <glisse^ well we are discussing about what to do, this might take a while before we find out :p
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[12:58:37]  <daniels> glisse: heh
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[12:59:09]  <daniels> oh christ, you have to be kidding me
 [12:59:18]  <daniels> it looks like all three of google, yahoo and msn are simultaneously spidering cvs.fd.o
 [12:59:44]  <glisse> they can't live without fdo :)
 [13:00:01]  <jcristau> fdo could live without cvs :)
 [13:00:33]  <daniels^ gstreamer :(
 [13:00:44]  <marcheu> webcvs though ?
 [13:01:06]  <jcristau> webcvs could probably live with robots.txt then
 [13:01:53]  <daniels^ yeah, will just kill cvs for a bit and when they've finished trying to spider, add robots.txt
 [13:04:26]  <pjones+ but google code search is really useful...
 [13:05:19]  <marcheu> I'm not sure what's more useful to fd.o devs: google code search or working annarchy ?
 [13:05:23]  <jcristau> pjones: not if it puts annarchy down all the time
 [13:05:26]  <marcheu> oh, I guess I know
 [13:06:47]  <daniels> annarchy's load is now a constant 11 or so, so i think we win
 [13:13:53]  <ajax> alright, i need some input here.
 [13:14:09]  <ajax> i'm fixing the way vesa does mode validation
 [13:14:16]  <ajax> a dire prospect, to be sure.
 [13:15:31]  <ajax> what i've been doing in fedora is a two-pass scheme.  first time through, try to find a strict intersection of modes between the vbe and ddc lists.  second pass, guess wildly with some sync-range-based heuristics.
 [13:16:03]  <ajax> since many laptops give you EDID with exactly one mode, which naturally isn't in the VBE list.
 [13:17:55]  <ajax> it had at least one problem, which is sometimes you'd get a mode back from EDID that isn
 [13:17:59]  <ajax> 't actually something it can do.
 [13:18:12]  <ajax> typical case being, two 1680x1050 modes, one RB and one not, and only the RB mode works.
 [13:18:44]  <ajax> VBE would try, of two modes, to pick the one with the highest pixel clock.  so the non-RB mode would win.  and you, you would lose.
 [13:20:12]  <ajax> well, that's easy enough, just save aside the real mode parameters.
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[13:22:23]  <ajax> for the second pass... just keep doing what i've been doing?
 [13:24:28]  <spstarr_work^ do you have a .plan on what bits of Xserver you're planning on ripping out? or it just happens when as is ? :)
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[13:25:43]  <ajax> spstarr_work: mfb is the next big one.  dga and xf86misc once xi2 is a reality.  and i'd like to rewrite rendering up in exa or similar so that at some point we could remove all knowledge of tile/stipple and span-based rendering from fb
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[13:26:23]  <spstarr_work> ok so i will just not document what mfb, dga, xf86misc are, in the wiki I'm working on
 [13:26:44]  <ajax> eventually we'll kick out x86emu and just use libx86
 [13:26:47]  <spstarr_work^ the plan is to first document what the subdirs under xserver are/do, used for, then start doxygen the code
 [13:27:21]  <ajax> oh, mibank.
 [13:27:24]  <ajax> death to mibank.
 [13:27:55]  <spstarr_work> do you have a deathsquad page on wiki showing whats getting the axe?
 [13:28:05]  <ajax> and i feel like there's some fat to trim from hw/xfree86/common, but the problem there is it's thousands of tiny things.  hard to know what to cull.
 [13:28:09]  <daniels> XTrap/ may die
 [13:28:09]  <ajax> i don't think so.
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[13:28:35]  <spstarr_work> hmm, well when i get to start documenting it would be good to know what is dying/going to die, so i dont document dead code :)
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[13:28:49]  <daniels> ajax: i'll be having to cull a load of fat from hw/xfree86 for work, so we'll see how that goes.
 [13:29:16]  <dberkholz^ and may i say how excited i am about that
 [13:29:32]  <spstarr_work> ok :)
 [13:29:37]  * spstarr_work gets hamburger
 [13:29:58]  <daniels> and put it this way, if nokia aren't using kdrive, i don't see what excuse anyone else has.
 [13:30:53]  <dberkholz> has anyone built Xfake lately? seemed pretty broken to me
 [13:32:06]  <ajax> i don't think i build it anymore since the kdrive build got cleaned up.
 [13:32:11]  <ajax> i used to build it but not ship it.
 [13:32:40]  <daniels> i would like for one of fake or vfb to not exist.
 [13:33:29]  <ajax> i vote for fake.  killing a whole DDX would be nice, but vfb is the sort of thing people write scripts around, and i'd like to not do a cli-compatibility game.
 [13:33:39]  <daniels> ack
 [13:35:50]  <daniels> quality osnews comment:
 [13:35:52]  <daniels> 'Let the Compiz-Fusion team take it over. If X is barely staying alive and hardly developed then maybe integrate it into their code.
 [13:35:55]  <daniels> '
 [13:35:58]  <daniels> I'm not sure if that's logistically possible, but it's an idea. Better than a pretty important piece of code just stagnating hardly touched.
 [13:36:06]  <ajax> "barely staying alive"
 [13:36:16]  <daniels^ srsly.
 [13:36:58]  <dberkholz> if Xfake is cmdline-compat with Xvfb, could just install a link..
 [13:37:25]  <ajax^ isn't.  you'd actually have to port some functionality from vfb to fake to get there.
 [13:37:45]  <daniels^ if you say -fbdir, i swear you're going to get it in the eye
 [13:38:37]  <ajax> i'm not going to talk about customers who actually use that then...
 [13:38:46]  <ajax> (though yes, they're nuts)
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[13:40:09]  <daniels> i was hoping to get rid of that
 [13:40:32]  <ajax> i won't stop you.  "upstream deprecated the feature."  works wonders.
 [13:40:33]  <daniels> surely if nothing else it should be -fbfile
 [13:41:40]  <ajax> if they really want it bad enough they'll file a bug about it going away and then it becomes a well known cost equation to figure out whether we add it back in.
 [13:43:16]  <marcheu> daniels: hahaha best laugh of the day
 [13:43:30]  <marcheu> (the compiz thing)
 [13:51:21]  <glisse^ i think we should let compiz team take over nouveau ;->
 [13:51:38]  <daniels> they could take over avivo
 [13:51:53]  <glisse> that would make sense too :)
 [13:51:57]  <marcheu> they could take over xprint
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[13:53:42]  <daniels> checking the xprint repository is interesting
 [14:07:15]  <daniels> 10272     Jun 12 nagios@freedesk (   0) Host DOWN alert for annarchy.freedesktop.org!
 [14:07:18]  <daniels> 10273     Jun 12 nagios@freedesk (   0) Host UP alert for annarchy.freedesktop.org!
 [14:07:21]  <daniels> thanks nagios.
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[16:00:48]  <mattst88> jbarnes, IRC is easier than cross posting on bugzilla.kernel.org. :)
 [16:00:59]  <jbarnes^ heh
 [16:01:28]  <mattst88> I'll copy&paste some code tonight and see if I can make it work.
 [16:01:36]  <mattst88> I'll almost definitely need your help, if you'll be around.
 [16:01:47]  <jbarnes> the only tricky thing you might have to worry about is the iobase for each bus on alpha
 [16:02:17]  <jbarnes> aiui it can have several and unless the base addr is included in the address passed to pci_mmap_page_range you may need to fix it up somehow
 [16:02:45]  <jbarnes> arch/alpha/kernel/pci.c looks like it has some code to extract what you need though, so you should be able to get the right args to pass to remap_pfn_range somehow :)
 [16:03:03]  <mattst88> lots of guessing :)
 [16:04:29]  <mattst88> I have this feeling that idr's patch for the xserver won't make it into 1.5 because the necessary kernel bits aren't in place.
 [16:05:16]  <idr^ Adding my patch to 1.5 won't make things worse.
 [16:05:30]  <mattst88> oh, good
 [16:05:38]  <idr^ At least it /might/ work when the relevant kernel bits show up.
 [16:05:44]  <mattst88> any reason not to commit it, other than it's raw and completely untested? :)
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[16:05:54]  <idr> mattst88: And the xserver will compile on Alpha...though that may be misleading to people.
 [16:06:06]  <mattst88> yeah
 [16:06:11]  <idr^ Other than that?  Not that I can think of. :)
 [16:07:23]  <mattst88^ are you involved with any of the Power6 stuff IBM is doing?
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[16:16:09]  <vignatti> how focus works in the server?
 [16:16:21]  <vignatti> i must look where in the code?
 [16:17:03]  <mattst88> I would think that would be a part of the desktop environment/window manager, but I definitely could be wrong.
 [16:17:22]  <vignatti^ nop, for sure.
 [16:17:42]  <daniels> for 1.6, i'm going to make core fonts optional, as well as the following mandatory: xinerama, xdm-auth-1, composite (deal), mitshm, xres, xv, screensaver, xdmcp, dbe, and dpms.  and delete multibuffer.  anyone object to this?
 [16:17:49]  <vignatti> because I can start just a server with an xterm and see it working
 [16:18:08]  <daniels^ uhm, how many weeks have you got?
 [16:18:28]  <vignatti^ heh, for what?
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[16:19:28]  <daniels> vignatti: explaining how focus works
 [16:19:28]  <daniels> what do you want
[16:19:30]  <daniels> to know?
 [16:19:41]  <daniels> the best short answer is 'just always start a window manager, it makes life easier'
 [16:23:16]  <vignatti^ i trying to let both threads - input and main - totally indepedent here
 [16:23:32]  <vignatti> so I removed ProcessInputEvents from Dispatch and put it nside the input thread
 [16:23:49]  <vignatti> daniels: Cool. Now my cursor is updated correctly but the focus not
 [16:23:50]  <vignatti> got it?
 [16:25:15]  <daniels> you can't do that, because event delivery depends on the window structure and various other bits that could go away
 [16:25:50]  <daniels> assuming you're not moving/creating/destroying/reparenting windows though, i can't really see why it wouldn't be fine
 [16:26:44]  <daniels> deep in Xi/exevents.c:ProcessOtherEvents() [assuming you're working post-mpx merge -- dix/events.c:CoreProcessPointerEvent if not], is where window selection actually occurs
 [16:26:58]  <daniels> i'm still finding my way around after the mpx merge, so i can't tell you where exactly, tbh
 [16:27:55]  <daniels> see also dix/events.c:CheckMotion()
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[16:28:49]  <daniels> anholt: actually, were you still planning to fake xinerama proto based on randr 1.2 server api? if so, then i won't make xinerama mandatory.
 [16:29:18]  <vignatti^ tkx Daniel. I'll check it
 [16:30:36]  <anholt+ I have no randr plans at this point
 [16:33:45]  <svu> daniels, hi. congratulations on new xserver:)
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[16:35:46]  <daniels> svu: heh, thanks
 [16:36:03]  <daniels> anholt: okay.  is that the general idea of what the flying-car future looks like, though?
 [16:36:13]  <svu^ well done lads. it is a pity though xkb2 is not there yet...
 [16:36:35]  <owen> is it a known issue that gnome-screensaver-2.16 and Xserver 1.4.99.901 do not play nice? i have to kill gnome-screensaver to get past the password dialog
 [16:36:39]  <daniels> anholt: i.e. is there any point embedding panoramix (as in, the chunk of code in the server) deeper in core code, or should we keep it external and wait for something much more utopian to ome in and displace it?
 [16:36:43]  <daniels> svu: yeah, you're telling me ...
 [16:36:44]  <owen> the password dialog never displays
 [16:37:11]  <anholt> daniels: I'd talk to ajax
 [16:37:15]  <daniels^ okay
 [16:37:15]  <svu^ interested in some interesting bug report? http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16318
 [16:37:15]  <daniels> ajax: ?
 [16:37:24]  <daniels> svu: always interested, rarely have the time ;)
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[16:37:38]  <daniels> svu: yeah, i saw that on the list
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[16:37:57]  <daniels> svu: i really don't know what's up with the @#$* caps lock key.
 [16:38:07]  <svu^ it is reprodicable
 [16:38:31]  <svu> can it be the driver?
 [16:39:07]  <daniels^ it might be the kbd driver, yeah ... it does some pretty stupid shit.  do you know if they were using kbd or evdev?
 [16:39:20]  <svu^ I'll ask
 [16:40:11]  <daniels> hang on
 [16:40:15]  <svu^ I am using kbd - and has this problem
 [16:40:22]  <svu> has/have
 [16:40:48]  <daniels> if he's doing two xkbcomp dumps -- one with evdev, one with kbd -- how are they identical?
 [16:40:53]  <daniels> the names, keycodes, etc are all different
 [16:41:38]  <daniels> svu: might be worth checking if, e.g., control is okay
 [16:41:57]  <daniels> that tells us if we have a problem resetting the mod/repeat maps, or if caps lock in general just sucks
 [16:42:05]  <svu^ may be the behaviour is identical, not dumps
 [16:42:35]  <idr> Woo!  F9 FTW!
 [16:42:46]  <svu> daniels, the dump he provided works for kbd (in my case)
 [16:42:57]  <idr> I've tried installing twice on ppc, and both times it won't accept my root password after rebooting.
 [16:43:05]  <idr> FAIL
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[16:44:47]  <svu> daniels, does it mean it is special handling of CAPS keycode, regardless of the numeric value?
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[16:45:52]  <daniels> svu: i can't see anything obvious in grep, but i wouldn't be overly surprised if we were failing to set up autorepeats properly for modifiers that were subsequently remapped.
 [16:46:27]  <svu> heh. should I assign it to you, my friend?:)
 [16:46:58]  <daniels> whot: ping
 [16:47:00]  <daniels> svu: yeah, for sure
 [16:47:06]  <daniels> just punt all xkb code-related bugs my way
 [16:47:26]  <svu> I just do not want to do it without having a word with you
 [16:47:47]  <svu> (I do not want to blame you for my mistakes:)
 [16:47:51]  <daniels> no, please, just feel free to assign, though chats are always nice :)
 [16:48:11]  <svu> ok, let's keep it that way. and it gives me some knowledge about xkb internals too
 [16:49:58]  <svu> daniels, BTW, would it make sense to make you default owner of input/keyboard ?
 [16:54:00]  <daniels^ not for the input driver, no ... i think we just need an Input/XKB component
 [16:54:26]  <svu^ how would you distinguish input/keyboard from input/xkb?
 [16:54:41]  <daniels^ xf86-input-kbd is a trainwreck i refuse to touch
 [16:55:13]  <daniels> in my world, everyone uses evdev, and loves it
 [16:55:30]  <svu> ok, then let's split them indeed
 [16:55:30]  * CosmicPenguin shudders at a world that loves evdev
 [16:55:39]  * svu feels shame for using kbd
 [16:55:52]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: in fairness, current evdev bears no relation at all to what came before it
 [16:56:01]  <CosmicPenguin> this is true
 [16:56:03]  <daniels> except that it also uses /dev/input/event*
 [16:56:45]  <svu> ghm... is it safe to switch to evdev on powerpc ?
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[16:57:09]  <daniels> svu: btw, i'm hoping a lot of these mystic issues either go away or are actually possible to debug with the branch i'm currently rebasing against current master (i.e. dragging it from pre-mpx to mpx).  cutting down on all the core/xkb duplication and only doing things in one place ... revolutionary idea.
 [16:57:14]  <daniels> and yeah, it's completely safe.
 [16:57:23]  <CosmicPenguin> But there is a fine line between "love" and "tolerance"... I have tolerance, but little love for evdev
 [16:57:51]  <owen> idr: i found another new fun thing...
 [16:57:56]  <svu> ok I'll try
 [16:58:02]  <owen> cant get anything but 1280x1024 to stick
 [16:58:13]  <svu> daniels, but anyway, adding input/xkb is a good idea. will you do it?
 [16:58:14]  <idr> owen: You might try with recent DRM and user bits.
 [16:58:25]  <owen^ newer than 0530?
 [16:58:29]  <idr^ I managed to get a single display working on DVI.
 [16:58:37]  <idr> From earlier today.
 [16:58:45]  * svu experiences hangs with ati driver on powerpc, while watching movies...
 [16:58:46]  <owen> idr: ok...
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[16:59:03]  <owen> idr: is the interference gone on the DVI port?
 [16:59:25]  <idr^ It seems to be.
 [16:59:38]  <idr> At least, I don't notice it.
 [16:59:48]  <owen^ ok, give me 20, i'll get it tested
 [16:59:55]  <owen> i owe you many beers if it works :D
 [16:59:59]  <daniels> svu: yep, done
 [17:00:11]  <svu> hurray
 [17:01:11]  <airlied> owen: you asked yesterday, you could in theory use an ATI r500 in powerpc PCIE.
 [17:01:19]  <airlied> in practice I haven't finished endian fixing the driver.
 [17:01:43]  <airlied> I was going to put an r500 into my G5 and finish it.
 [17:01:55]  <owen^ ok
 [17:02:00]  <owen> ETA?
 [17:02:01]  <svu> airlied, is the driver for r350 considered as stable on powerpc?
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[17:02:11]  <svu> radeon 9800 pro
 [17:02:32]  <airlied^ well its considered the only driver you have.
 [17:02:40]  <airlied> owen: this week, early next week
 [17:02:41]  <owen> svu: it works mostly
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[17:02:54]  <owen> airlied: ok, if theres anything i can do to help with that effort
 [17:02:54]  <airlied^ I've done the first chunk of it already in -ati
 [17:03:17]  <airlied> well its mostly shoving le16_to_cpu all over *atombios* in the -ati driver :)
 [17:03:18]  <svu^ :) ok. is a report about hangs during movie watchin (using xv) of any interest?
 [17:03:36]  <airlied^ probably worth filing a bug..
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[17:03:57]  <svu> airlied, ok. thanks.
 [17:03:57]  <airlied> but it can be a pain for us to repoduce as I've got no 9800 that goes in my powerpc.
 [17:05:09]  * svu specifically bought ati because the box had nvidia fx which only worked with shitty nv driver
 [17:06:45]  <owen> idr: do i need recent dri user bits?
 [17:06:49]  <owen> or just xgi user bits?
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[17:07:24]  <idr> owen: Just xf86-video-xgixp and the xgi kernel module.
 [17:07:30]  <owen^ k
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[17:08:07]  <idr> airlied: What PPC doe you have?  Reflashed AGP cards work quite well. :)
 [17:08:52]  <airlied^ G5 PCIE
 [17:09:14]  <airlied> so nvidia, with an x86 ati card in an 8x slot as well
 [17:09:31]  <airlied> latest ati stuff doesn't need no BIOS exec to init it which is nice.
 [17:09:35]  <airlied> once I finish endianness cleanups
 [17:09:38]  <idr^ Oh.  AGP won't help there. :(
 [17:09:48]  * svu has agp
 [17:09:51]  <svu> on g5
 [17:12:20]  <owen> idr: guessing i need a newer libdrm...
 [17:12:22]  <owen> xg47_cmdlist.c:175: error: 'DRM_XGI_SET_FENCE' undeclared (first use in this function)
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[17:47:33]  <idr> owen: Don't need a whole new libdrm.  Just the xgi_drm.h.
 [17:47:41]  <idr> Sorry for the lag in my reply.
 [17:47:52]  <owen^ built the new drm, fixed the issue
 [17:48:16]  <idr^ Okay.
 [17:49:18]  <ajax> daniels: panoramix as rendering multiplexer is actually about at the right place.  we _could_ fold it straight into top-level dispatch without too much pain if we wanted.  not the worst idea ever.
 [17:49:45]  <ajax> i'm actually only holding off on that for a) possible embedded size concerns and b) too many critical-path extensions not xinerama-aware yet
 [17:49:52]  <ajax> damage and composite being the important ones
 [17:50:22]  <daniels^ okay, cool.  i'll leave it in your capable hands then? assuming that no-one cares about embedded size concerns.
 [17:51:03]  <owen> XGI-XGIScreenInit()...
 [17:51:03]  <owen> giving up.
 [17:51:17]  <mjg59> XGI? Give up.
 [17:51:45]  <owen^ if we didnt have a couple hundred cards, we would :D
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[17:53:14]  <ajax> daniels: i'd like to have at least a partial solution by 1.6, where that means damage/composite integrated and performant enough to turn on everywhere even if some people choose not to.  i'd fold together later.
 [17:53:27]  <ajax> it is, in fact, my roadmap to do so.
 [17:53:33]  <ajax> we'll see if i can deliver this time.
 [17:53:58]  <daniels> *nod*.
 [17:54:09]  <daniels> that's cool.  i'll try to avoid stepping on your toes. :)
 [17:55:12]  <dberkholz> yay, new ati.
 [17:55:36]  <ajax> composite is the hard one.
 [17:55:52]  <ajax> well, really, lazy screen resource creation is hard, and composite just makes it brutally hard.
 [17:56:31]  <owen> idr: ugh... so far all i'm able todo over DVI is hard lock the box?
 [17:56:46]  <stillunknown> lazy in what way?
 [17:56:54]  <daniels> ajax: ooi, how does composite make it harder?
 [17:57:02]  <daniels> stillunknown: 'not at startup'
 [17:57:18]  <ajax^ well with a Window, you can know more or less what screen it's supposed to be on.
 [17:57:27]  <ajax> composite turns those into also being Pixmaps
 [17:57:51]  <daniels^ yeah, good point
 [17:58:04]  <ajax> right now xin instantiates every pixmap on every backend screen
 [17:58:29]  <ajax> which means your rendering is a) serialized and b) bottlenecked by the worst card in the system
 [17:58:42]  <ajax> would be Really Nice to only put them where they need to be
 [17:59:01]  <daniels> right, that just seems like a Simple Matter of Coding, though
 [17:59:08]  <ajax> dmx does this by lying at drawable creation time and only realizing drawables on the backends when you first touch them
 [17:59:11]  <idr> owen: Let me make sure that I didn't forget to push something...
 [17:59:56]  <ajax> you could do that in the core if you moved a whole gc wrap layer up.  ick though.
 [18:00:10]  <ajax> i have a bus to catch.  back in a bit.
 [18:00:11]  <daniels^ well, either that, or just create it on a fake fb-backed screen (yeesh) to begin with, and then every time it's used as the source for a composite/copyarea, note which screen it was off to, and shift it there.  (potentially doing something smart for spanning.)
 [18:00:16]  <daniels> happy shuttling
 [18:01:51]  <owen> idr: same thing now with only VGA
 [18:02:09]  <owen> complete breakage
 [18:02:16]  <idr> Okay.
 [18:02:30]  <idr> owen: I was mucking with the fencing code, and I probably broke it.
 [18:02:35]  * idr sighs...
 [18:02:48]  <owen^ haha
 [18:02:53]  <idr^ Try this patch to the DRM:  http://people.freedesktop.org/~idr/xgi_fence_hack.patch
 [18:03:01]  <onestone> is there any chance that input redirection will be implemented for 1.6?
 [18:03:14]  <daniels^ barring a pretty major surprise, no.
 [18:04:30]  <daniels> whot and i will probably be moving about 20,000km between us in the couple of months before 1.6, so it's not going to be a thrilling release, input-wise.
 [18:05:35]  <onestone^ when will 1.6 be released?
 [18:06:19]  <onestone> 1.5 is still not ready
 [18:06:42]  <owen> idr: ok, rebooting again...
 [18:06:59]  <idr^ Okay.  Sorry for all the chaos.
 [18:07:16]  <stillunknown> onestone: Probably when it's done.
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[18:12:29]  <daniels> onestone: between 1.5 and 1.7, most likely.
 [18:12:40]  <onestone> ;-)
 [18:13:00]  <daniels> assuming 1.5 releases this month-ish, that puts 1.6's release christmas/new year-ish.
 [18:13:34]  <owen> idr: same behavior with the patch
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[18:14:55]  <owen> idr: not sure if this helps.... PCI: Unable to reserve mem region #1:10000000@c0000000 for device 0000:f1:00.0
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[18:16:24]  <onestone> daniels: I only fear that Windows 7 (2010?) will be released with some kind of input redirection and we will still be delaying it to the next release ;-)
 [18:17:23]  <dberkholz> ajax: worth activating xaanooffscreenpixmaps by default? seems pretty much everybody has the patch or is thinking of adding it
 [18:17:27]  <alanc> there's one easy way to make sure that doesn't happen - start helping to write the code yourself
 [18:17:28]  <dberkholz> ajax: upstream, that is...
 [18:17:40]  <daniels> onestone: i'm not going to turn down sensible patches, but there's no fucking way i'm doing it with input in the state it's in today.
 [18:17:48]  <idr> owen: Can you send me /var/log/messages and /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
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[18:18:20]  <marcheu> dberkholz: sometimes you wonder what we need a memory manager for, uh ? :)
 [18:18:45]  <daniels> onestone: to get a sensible, tractable and debuggable input processing platform, there's still a fair bit of work needed and a hell of a lot of cleanup.  i do this in parallel with everything else (inc. work and some sleep), and by the time i'm done, i'm moving continents and 1.6 is getting released.
 [18:19:31]  <daniels> if i ever told you that input redirection was 1.6 material, i apologise for that, and i'm not sure what i was thinking.  if i hadn't, well, i can't really take the blame for other people getting false impressions ...
 [18:21:46]  <owen> idr: http://cvs.terraplex.com/~owen/messages
[18:22:02]  <owen> http://cvs.terraplex.com/~owen/Xorg.0.log
 [18:22:08]  <idr^ eperm
 [18:22:44]  <owen^ should be good now
 [18:23:36]  <vignatti> (EE) MGA(0): [dri] Idle timed out, resetting engine...
 [18:23:40]  <vignatti> what does it means?
 [18:23:40]  <idr> owen: You have both VGA and DVI connected?
 [18:23:46]  <onestone> daniels: no you never told that it will be 1.6 but we have seen davids first patches more than a year ago and it was already on the feature list of 1.4? If you look at how long it took to bring composite to a shape where it can be enabled by default and now think how long it will take to fix broken apps for IR
 [18:24:00]  <owen> idr: just VGA in those logs
 [18:24:46]  <idr> (II) XGI(0): Output VGA connected
 [18:24:46]  <idr> (II) XGI(0): Output DVI connected
 [18:24:59]  <owen> yeah...
 [18:24:59]  <idr> It must not be the most recent code.
 [18:25:03]  <owen> confirming with hands
 [18:25:09]  <idr> heh...
 [18:25:29]  <daniels> onestone: putting them on the 1.4 list was a dumb mistake in hindsight, but those patches were not complete.  given the choice between mpx and ir first, mpx absolutely wins hands-down every time.
 [18:26:04]  <daniels> every time i work with the input layer now, i'm thankful for mpx having made things a great deal easier (go figure).  ir (or 'it', really) has the reverse effect of 'oh god how do we do this'.
 [18:27:14]  <owen> idr: commit 12d6b6092d945c4959e324be7f19fc941a7230fe
 [18:27:16]  <owen> from today
 [18:27:20]  <owen> first entry in git log
 [18:27:25]  <marcheu> onestone: composite is more complex IMO, since it requires rewriting the drivers
 [18:27:43]  <marcheu> which is why it took so much time for it to take off
 [18:27:46]  <onestone> daniels: is this more like how do we really implement a working system or how do we implement a system that doesn't break 50% of all apps?
 [18:29:50]  <owen> idr: yelling at assistant
 [18:29:56]  <idr> ?
 [18:29:59]  <owen> boy it'd sure be nice if i had a box in front of me
 [18:30:07]  <owen> (03:29:26 PM) Aaron: no, out last test was vga only including at boot, test just before that was just DVI including at boot
 [18:31:30]  <idr> hmm...
 [18:33:33]  <daniels> onestone: the general cleanup is 'how do we fix the existing issues affecting all apps', which devolves into 'how do we fix the system such that we can debug the existing issues affecting all apps'.  this is what i'm working on at the moment (rebase finished, will check if it works next week and then continue work, will push at some stage).  after that, we can think about input transformation, but until then, it's merely getting i
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[18:34:14]  <daniels> onestone: i'm not obsessed with landing an absolutely perfect input transformation that works in every possible circumstance, but i refuse to countenance any change that makes input worse than it is today.
 [18:34:32]  <daniels> ('worse' here includes 'less digestible and maintainable'.)
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[18:35:16]  <owen> idr: looking forward to monday? :)
 [18:35:34]  <onestone> daniels: thx for all the infos.
 [18:36:58]  <daniels^ no problem.  give me a shout if you have any questions or whatever, but yeah, it's not going to be on my radar until 2009, realistically.
 [18:39:33]  <idr> owen: It's Wednesday that I'm looking forward to...that's when I get to Holland. :)
 [18:39:51]  <owen^ haha
 [18:40:11]  <stillunknown> And why are you looking forward to that?
 [18:40:39]  <idr^ Vacation!
 [18:40:59]  <idr> My wife's family is there...then we go to Paris.
 [18:41:28]  <owen> oui oui!
 [18:42:27]  <stillunknown> Then you should know not to call it Holland, it's the Netherlands.
 [18:43:33]  <idr> D'oh!
 [18:44:08]  <idr> stillunknown: But Holland is less to type.
 [18:44:13]  <whot> daniels: pong
 [18:44:19]  <idr> :)
 [18:44:22]  <stillunknown^ But it's also wrong.
 [18:44:42]  <idr^ So...where does that name come from?
 [18:45:09]  <idr> I had (apparently incorrectly) assume that Holland vs. the Netherlands was like United States vs. America.
 [18:45:36]  <stillunknown> It comes from two regions called North- and South-Holland, which somehow made people think that they were the only ones in the country.
 [18:45:40]  <daniels> whot: so i was looking at dix/devices.c, and there's still a few dev == inputInfo.keyboard || dev->coreEvents tests.  weren't both supposed to go away?
 [18:45:55]  <stillunknown> By that i mean, they made others think that.
 [18:46:06]  <idr> Ah...
 [18:46:12]  <whot> daniels: yeah, they should. eventually
 [18:46:26]  <idr> stillunknown: That makes sense.  Ticksy hobbitses!
 [18:46:49]  <stillunknown^ So where specifically are you going?
 [18:46:58]  <spstarr+ it's a common misconception
[18:47:10]  <idr> stillunknown: Haarlem and Den Haag...mostly Haarlem, though.
 [18:47:17]  <idr> That's where her family lives.
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[18:48:08]  <daniels> whot: okay, cool.  also, stupid question, but is there any way for me to enumerate slaves from masters? is it just walking the tree looking for tmp->master == dev?
 [18:48:12]  <stillunknown> idr: No wonder your wife hasn't corrected you, she may be one of "them".
 [18:48:36]  <whot> daniels: yep, that's the way
 [18:48:40]  <daniels^ bitchin'.  ta.
 [18:48:55]  <idr> stillunknown: Well...she was born here.  Her dad emigrated to the US in the 70's to marry his pen pal.
 [18:49:01]  <whot> daniels: if (!dev->isMaster && dev->u.master == master) is the usual check
 [18:49:01]  <daniels^ btw, thanks again, mpx has made input vastly more tractable.
 [18:49:14]  <daniels> (aside from actually starting to rely on prev_state, which i'd removed in my tree.  oh well.)
 [18:49:16]  <idr> stillunknown: She's only been there twice.
 [18:49:18]  <whot> daniels: hehe. no worries
 [18:49:23]  * spstarr wants to visit Amsterdam :)
 [18:49:25]  <whot> daniels: prev_sate?
 [18:49:43]  <daniels^ dev->key->prev_state, which was the state before input processing started.
 [18:49:58]  <stillunknown> spstarr: really, you don't want to go there, much too crowded.
 [18:50:08]  <spstarr> but.. PARTIES!
 [18:50:31]  <whot> daniels: oh? does it? well, I'm sure you can figure something out  :)
 [18:50:36]  <whot> can't remember writing that code
 [18:51:19]  <stillunknown> spstarr: I doubt you'd have to come to Amsterdam for that.
 [18:51:19]  <daniels> whot: yeah, it's no biggie, just have to add it on the xkb side.  just a minor shaking of fist. ;)
 [18:51:26]  <spstarr> hehe
 [18:51:52]  <spstarr> stillunknown: well, i have good friends in .nl I dont think they all live in North Holland though
 [18:52:54]  <spstarr> ah
 [18:52:55]  <idr> owen: Okay...I just pushed some more changes to both DRM and xf86-video-xgixp GIT.  Could you try those *with* the previous DRM patch?
 [18:53:18]  <idr> If that all fails, I'll have to dig deeper.  I probably won't have anything else until tomorrow afternoon.
 [18:53:20]  <idr> Ugh.
 [18:53:30]  <spstarr> in 1064AD the county people called themselves was 'Holland'
 [18:53:35]  <owen> idr: ok
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[19:03:00]  <spstarr> stillunknown: I mean, everyone almost goes to De Wallen ;-)
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[19:06:18]  <stillunknown> spstarr: I doubt it.
 [19:06:29]  <spstarr> ;)
 [19:07:16]  <airlied> wow I barely got past the train station.
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[19:09:39]  <whot> anyone motivatd to backport 105d28652d1fb80dd8ce8511e2605dccc8812e99 to 1.4 and 1.5? would be an ideal problem for those new to X
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[19:13:12]  <daniels> hmm, 2:15.
 [19:13:25]  <marcheu> yeah, holidays ! :)
 [19:14:07]  <marcheu> you made me notice we're past midnight here, so I'm on hols
 [19:14:57]  <dberkholz> ooh nice. i got fancy new coloring in my .gitconfig
 [19:16:31]  <dberkholz> automatic colors for branches, commits, diffs..
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[19:28:58]  <daniels> marcheu: \o/
 [19:29:07]  <daniels> so nouveau will be finished by next week?
 [19:29:28]  <marcheu^ more like I'll be far from computers for 10 days :)
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[21:18:24]  <airlied> whot: I'm valgrinding the server and I see some bad memory access in EvdevMBEmuBlockHandler
 [21:19:01]  <airlied> http://pastebin.com/m2db2b5b3
 [21:20:17]  <whot^ is that with the latest and greatest?
 [21:20:43]  <whot> (and on that note, I'll shout you a beer if you tell me how to valgrind w/o making everything crash)
 [21:20:52]  <airlied^ lemme confirm..
 [21:20:57]  <airlied> for me valgrind Xorg works fine :)
 [21:21:04]  <airlied> from a remote ssh.
 [21:21:06]  <whot> oh, ffs. what's a recent GPU from ATI? I can't even answer the wiki captchas
 [21:21:19]  <airlied^ radeon
 [21:21:46]  <whot> yay! my attempt at r200 wasn't accepted
 [21:23:37]  <jcristau> you should add some mpx questions to the wiki captchas
 [21:24:22]  <whot> hehe.
 [21:24:59]  <jcristau> or you could be mean and add xkb questions
 [21:27:05]  <airlied> whot: so I guess you need a 1.99.5 :)
 [21:27:12]  <airlied> the mb fix in master fixed it
 [21:27:28]  <whot^ meh. I'll make .5 the 2.0
 [21:27:48]  <whot> if it works now, then I won't put any more changes in before 2.0
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[21:30:35]  <whot> jcristau: I could, but then I'd have to ask daniel for the answers. and he might not know them either :)
 [21:31:00]  <alanc> hmm, never seen the wiki captchas - wonder if I've got some "don't harass this dude" flag on my account
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[21:32:20]  <alanc> (not that I'm complaining, just figure if such a flag exists, whot seems worthy of skipping the harassment too)
 [21:33:03]  <whot^ btw, do you have time to look at 16171?
 [21:33:39]  <whot> airlied: any special version of valgrind or any special flags?
 [21:34:29]  <alanc^ hmm, not sure I've seen that before
 [21:35:10]  <airlied+ Fedora 8 on that box.
 [21:35:31]  <airlied> valgrind 3.2.3 it reports
 [21:35:34]  <whot> alanc: I checked the include paths etc and there is the odd chance that it happens, so some autoconf magic may be good
 [21:35:48]  <whot> airlied: same here
 [21:36:06]  <whot> valgrind: m_syswrap/syswrap-generic.c:1722 (vgModuleLocal_generic_POST_sys_shmdt): Assertion 's->kind == SkShmC' failed.
 [21:36:21]  <alanc> wait, Xarch.h defines X_LITTLE_ENDiAN & X_BIG_ENDIAN when X_BYTE_ORDER is defined, so I don't see the problem
 [21:39:37]  <airlied> I'm seeing that crash on Fedora as well
 [21:39:41]  <airlied> that build crash
 [21:40:22]  <whot> alanc: dix-config.h defines X_BYTE_ORDER = X_LITTLE_ENDIAN. but doesn't have a X_LITTLE_ENDIAN define before
 [21:41:06]  <whot> and then if xarch.h is included after, it doesn't overwrite it because it thinks it to be defined
 [21:41:25]  <alanc> but Xarch.h always sets X_LITTLE_ENDIAN & X_BIG_ENDIAN
 [21:41:57]  <airlied> I was more worried we never saw Xarch.h in those pats
 [21:41:59]  <airlied> ths
 [21:42:03]  <airlied> paths.
 [21:42:23]  <alanc> is it just a failure to include Xarch.h ?
 [21:43:04]  <whot^ nope, colormapst.h includes it
 [21:45:02]  <alanc> I can't see how it would fail then
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[21:46:03]  <alanc> every path I see through Xarch.h ends with X_BYTE_ORDER, X_BIG_ENDIAN, and X_LITTLE_ENDIAN defined
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[21:47:52]  <whot> alanc: hmm. guess we need some preprocessor output then
 [21:48:21]  <alanc> but I have to leave now, since my wife is waiting for me to pick her up to go to Fry's, so I'll have to look later
 [21:49:22]  <whot^ no worries, thx
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[21:50:03]  <airlied> ah my Xarch.h sucks alright
 [21:50:16]  <airlied> oh it sorta sucks but comes out the other side .
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[23:05:27]  <idr> owen: I just pushed one more fix to the 2D side that should fix the double monitor detection.
 [23:05:50]  <idr> I'm not able to reproduce your crash on PPC or x86. :(
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[23:07:10]  <owen> idr_away: :(
 [23:07:13]  <owen> ok, thx
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----- [2008-06-13] -----
 [00:22:32]  <whot> anyone running compiz under master?
 [00:24:19]  <whot> and if so, does it work for you?
 [00:32:38]  <b0le^ just compiled x and compiz from master and it kernel panic'd (though I probably messed something up...)
 [00:33:19]  <whot^ ok, not the same issue I see then :)
 [00:33:25]  <whot> I can't drag windows around
 [00:34:38]  <b0le^ I can move windows, but get a kernel panic when I try resize them
 [00:35:36]  <whot^ hmm
 [00:35:49]  <airlied+ can you pastebin the panic?
 [00:37:37]  <b0le^ it is one where the keyboards leds flash, so I need to figure out (again) how to setup remote logging
 [00:37:56]  <airlied^ oh bummer.
 [00:56:35]  <b0le^ http://joel.bosveld.googlepages.com/nc.log
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[01:00:58]  <whot> b0le: ok, nevermind. found that there's a move plugin that must be loaded
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[01:13:45]  <b0le> ok, it also plays up when creating a new window while compiz is running (without compiz, it is fine)
 [01:14:49]  <whot^ http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16292
 [01:24:40]  <b0le^ thanks. Reminds me of the kernel panic I had at beginning of the year: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14518
 [01:25:01]  <b0le> (specifically MrCooper's last comment)
 [01:31:33]  <whot^ does the fix work?
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[01:35:16]  <b0le> whot: with EXA problem is gone (though now I can't resize windows... probably a compiz problem (as I did temporarily disable the resize plugin))
 [01:36:21]  <whot^ ok. i'm having some troubles here as well with resizing/moving. could be compiz-internal stuff
 [01:37:04]  <b0le^ my problem is that ccsm is broken, so resize plugin isn't being re-enabled
 [01:37:46]  <whot^ yeah, ccsm just screws everything up here
 [01:44:26]  <b0le^ if you start compiz like this "LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 compiz --replace core decoration move resize", it should almost definitely work (unless you use ubuntu packages, then you need compiz.real instead of compiz)
 [01:46:15]  <whot^ yeah, thx. I did get it to work.
 [01:46:35]  <whot> although I'm kinda baffled of how compiz gets around mpx, since the second cursor doesn't do anything
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[03:21:57]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[10:21:02]  <JohnFlux> the 'op' in prepareComposite etc hooks - is that GXcopy etc?
 [10:22:36]  <agd5f^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/renderproto/tree/renderproto.txt
 [10:25:14]  <ajax+ no, it's a porter-duff op, not a raster op.
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[10:38:57]  <JohnFlux> agd5f: ajax: thank you
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[11:18:51]  <Turmlos_> ajax: ../include/servermd.h:48:1: error: unterminated #ifndef
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[11:20:43]  <ajax> bah
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[11:21:43]  <ajax> fixed
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[11:25:19]  <JohnFlux> just for testing, I tried doing    printf("Hello"); from inside the kdrive, but I see nothing on the output
 [11:25:35]  <JohnFlux> is stdout and stderr redirected, even for the kdrive?
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[11:47:14]  <alanc> with mfb/cfb gone, and half the platforms supported long dead, could probably really clean out servermd.h if anyone was bored enough to search the rest of the trees to see which #defines are no longer used anywhere
 [11:47:58]  <JohnFlux^ what's mfb and cfb? :)
 [11:48:56]  <alanc^ scary stories old X developers tell the kiddies late at night
 [11:49:05]  <JohnFlux> :)
 [11:50:21]  <JohnFlux> I've connected a function to all the hooks for {Check,Prepare,,Done}Composite  functions
 [11:50:57]  <JohnFlux> and run a test app that blends.  myCheckComposite gets called, but the others don't at all
 [11:51:03]  <JohnFlux> but I return TRUE; 
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[11:56:14]  <JohnFlux> oh, hmm, pSrcPix is not being set for some reason
[11:57:47]  <MrCooper^ in exaComposite?
 [11:58:47]  <JohnFlux> I was looking in kaaTryDriverComposite  
[11:59:11]  <JohnFlux> what does it mean if pSrc is set but pSrcPtr isn't
 [11:59:26]  <JohnFlux> i'm still slowly trying to understand this :)
 [12:01:38]  <fredrikh^ you mean pSrcPix?
 [12:02:47]  <JohnFlux^ ah yeah I do
 [12:03:50]  <ajax> alanc: i actually did nuke the ones i was sure were unused
 [12:04:14]  <fredrikh> JohnFlux: source pictures (gradients etc.) don't have a pixmap
 [12:04:18]  <ajax> some of the same #defines are used by fb, but fb then forces them to a small set of values
 [12:04:33]  <ajax> like, GLYPHPADBYTES has to be 4.  whatever.
 [12:04:35]  <JohnFlux> fredrikh: I can't accelerate compositing these then?
 [12:05:12]  <fredrikh^ i don't know about KAA, but EXA doesn't pass them along to the driver
 [12:05:46]  <JohnFlux> my test program does  xrender_surf_blend   with an image
 [12:06:20]  <spstarr_work> cfb = Colour Framebuffer? mfb = Mono Framebuffer?
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[12:09:39]  <JohnFlux> fredrickh:  Can I just confirm this with you?  in my test program, I basically do:     xrender_surf_blend(disp, surf_img, surf_win, x, y, surf_img->w, surf_img->h, 1);
 [12:09:55]  <JohnFlux> this does a fairly straightforward  over blit of a transparent image
 [12:10:05]  <JohnFlux> am I not able to accelerate this?
 [12:10:34]  <fredrikh^ you should
 [12:10:57]  <JohnFlux^ pSrcPtr should be getting set?
 [12:11:05]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [12:11:14]  <JohnFlux^ I'll try to track down why it's not being set :/
 [12:11:20]  <fredrikh> that's set when you create the Picture btw
 [12:11:57]  <alanc> spstarr_work: yes
 [12:12:55]  <spstarr_work> :-)
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[12:17:23]  <dberkholz> krh: i never saw any announcements for those dri2proto releases
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[12:18:58]  <krh> dberkholz: I did send them out
 [12:19:06]  <JohnFlux> fredrikh: could it be because I haven't implemented UploadToScratch?
 [12:19:18]  <krh> dberkholz: but now that I think about it, I used that script, and I think it didn't work
 [12:19:26]  <JohnFlux> hmm no that should be optional
 [12:19:58]  <dberkholz> krh: i say this only because it took me until about 5 minutes ago to realize there was a release, and someone else had to tell me
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[12:31:37]  <JohnFlux> fredrikh: it seems that if I want to accelerate blitting from a pixmap to window, I do need to implement  UploadToScratch .
 [12:32:02]  <JohnFlux> I thought that there would be a default (memcpy) implementation of this, but it seems not
 [12:35:24]  <jcristau> this nec hcl guy is getting old
 [12:35:31]  <dberkholz> seriously
 [12:37:28]  <jcristau> 'kindly do my job for me cause i don't know google'
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[12:38:33]  <dberkholz> he'd probably be happy to pay for support. someone should offer it to him
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[12:47:44]  <alanc> preferably someone who speaks his language, since English doesn't seem to be it ("Zaphod mode was removed", "So what do we put into xorg.conf to support Zaphod mode?"....)
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[12:49:34]  <JohnFlux> What's an offscreen pixmap? :)
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[12:50:43]  <JohnFlux> I'm getting a bit confused heh
 [12:50:44]  <fredrikh^ one that lives in offscreen memory
 [12:51:16]  <JohnFlux^ in the video card memory?
 [12:51:20]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [12:51:20]  <JohnFlux^ or in system memory?
 [12:51:24]  <fredrikh> the former
 [12:51:47]  <JohnFlux> uploadToScratch should copy from system memory to an allocated offscreen video card memory?
 [12:51:56]  <fredrikh> yeah
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[12:52:24]  <JohnFlux> and  uploadToScreen should do what sorry?
 [12:53:14]  <fredrikh^ look at exa.h, it has doxygen docs :)
 [12:54:47]  <JohnFlux^ I'm looking in kaa.c.   it kaaGetOffscreenPixmap returns a pixmap for a Window drawable
 [12:55:01]  <JohnFlux> but wouldn't the window be, well, on screen? :)
 [12:55:41]  <fredrikh^ not when it's redirected with composite
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[12:56:32]  <JohnFlux> there's a function kaaPixmapIsOffscreen   which seems to return true if the pixmap is on the screen
 [12:56:53]  <JohnFlux> It does:   return ((unsigned long) ((CARD8 *) p->devPrivate.ptr - (CARD8 *) pScreenPriv->screen->memory_base) <  pScreenPriv->screen->memory_size);
 [12:57:19]  <JohnFlux> if I read this correctly, it returns true if the pixmap is onscreen
 [12:57:33]  <JohnFlux> although it's calledd  kaaPixmapIsOffscreen
 [12:57:37]  <JohnFlux> which is confusing me
 [12:58:03]  <ajax> yeah, sort of bad terminology
 [12:58:20]  <mherrb^ is it just me or is libXxf86vm commit 0aa2ae83518b14e927fb5b8ced182a4f25cecc76 completely wrong?
 [12:58:21]  <JohnFlux> please explain this to me :)  I'm getting really confused :)
 [12:58:25]  <ajax> "offscreen memory" means "offscreen card memory"
 [12:58:52]  <ajax> as opposed to "onscreen card memory", which is your scanout bits, or "host memory", which is host ram instead of vram
 [12:59:18]  <MrCooper^ ah, but the screen is 'offscreen' in this context :)
 [12:59:19]  <anholt> and in kaa, we called both onscreen and offscreen card memory offscreen.  sorry about that.
 [12:59:31]  <JohnFlux> screen memorybase is offscreen?
 [12:59:50]  <JohnFlux> anholt: in kaa, offscreen basically just means video card memory?
 [12:59:55]  <MrCooper^ 'offscreen' in this context means 'accessible to the accelerator'
 [12:59:57]  <anholt> yes
 [12:59:59]  <JohnFlux> offscreen or onscreen
 [13:00:32]  <ajax> mherrb: it's you.
 [13:00:46]  <JohnFlux> okay, so basically to accelerate composite I intend to:
 [13:00:51]  <JohnFlux> hmm
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[13:02:44]  <JohnFlux> okay I get it mostly :)  Thanks all!
 [13:02:48]  <JohnFlux> have a good weekend :)
 [13:03:40]  <ajax> mherrb: monitor->vendor = ""; changes the pointer to point to a (statically allocated) null string.  you can't pass those to free(), and you'll crash if you try it.
 [13:04:06]  <ajax> monitor->vendor[0] = '\0'; just terminates the string you've already got.
 [13:04:15]  <jbarnes> ah, so 1.5 will have some DRI2 bits...
 [13:04:58]  <mherrb> yes, true but your chanch doesn't allocate memory to write the '\0' to
[13:05:27]  <mherrb> when vendorLength==0
 [13:05:50]  <ajax> hmm.  point.
 [13:06:04]  <ajax> yeah. should just always calloc at least one byte.
 [13:08:00]  <ajax> or, better yet, just leave ->vendor as null, free(NULL) is a nop anyway
 [13:08:48]  <mherrb> not on every system, but the clients can cope with that I guess.
 [13:09:14]  <ajax> i think Xfree() guarantees it even if free() doesn't
 [13:10:00]  <alanc^ pretty sure ANSI/ISO C requires free(NULL) to work too
 [13:10:46]  <ajax> yeah, let me fix that up
 [13:11:59]  <mherrb> Indeed free(NULL) is required to be a no-op.
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[13:17:34]  <KaneTheWolf> I think I'll reask my question here, it just isn't end-user-related: Well, I've reverse engineered N-Trig's Dual Input digitizer and I'm searching for someone to write a driver for it. This digitizer is used in Dells Latitude XT. I also wrote a small python script that analyzes the output.
 [13:22:38]  <cjb^ oh, nice
 [13:23:09]  <cjb> You might consider posting to the main xorg list.  I'm sure someone will be interested.
 [13:23:24]  <KaneTheWolf> ok :)
 [13:23:42]  <mjg59^ It's something I could potentially look at in a couple of weeks or so
 [13:23:51]  <mjg59> But I've no access to the hardware
 [13:24:18]  <cjb> (I'm pretty interested too, since the XO-2 calls for multitouch, and if nothing else we need a device to start working on such software with.)
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[13:48:23]  <arekm> dberkholz: is that pixman mem leak causing X to grow?
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[15:19:58]  <aaronp> ssp: Thanks for reviewing all those patches.  (The redhat.com mail server still hates me, apparently)
 [15:20:32]  <ssp^ No problem
 [15:22:20]  <ssp> If redhat.com hates you, feel free to use sandmann@daimi.au.dk
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[15:29:44]  <dberkholz> arekm: X to grow?
 [15:29:59]  <dberkholz> ssp: btw have you seen that memleak patch?
 [15:30:16]  <ssp^ No, where?
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[15:30:23]  <dberkholz> lemme search fdo bugzilla
 [15:30:48]  <ssp> 16312
 [15:30:52]  <dberkholz> yep that's it
 [15:31:17]  <arekm^ X process eating ram
 [15:32:14]  <dberkholz^ that's what memory leaks do =)
 [15:34:05]  <arekm^ but is that memleak manifesting in such way? or something else grows like gnome-terminal or whatever but not "X" process
 [15:35:23]  <ssp+ The memleak patch looks fine to push if you want to do it
 [15:35:40]  <dberkholz^ k, will do
 [15:35:47]  <dberkholz> thanks for reviewing it
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[16:36:44]  <papillon81> have there been changes concerning endianess in any X component in the last few hours? i have issues on PPC
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[16:38:50]  <alanc> there's an open bug around endianness symbols on PPC that no one has figured out yet: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16171
 [16:38:55]  <alanc> but that's older than a few hours
 [16:40:51]  <papillon81^ no, everything compiles fine here. I have yet to figure out what caused it
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[16:43:41]  <firewing1> Somebody recommended from #xorg that I ask in here... I'd like to design a (multitouch-enabled) driver for the new MacBook's touchpads
 [16:44:03]  <firewing1> The only software I know of now that supports it is touchd that uses uinput... Would I have to design only an Xorg driver, kernel driver, or both?
 [16:44:14]  <firewing1> touchd --> touchd.sourceforge.net
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[16:58:57]  <papillon81> alanc: I already had endian bugs with the radeon driver in the past. this time it looks like it is caused by X or by mesa
 [16:59:30]  <alanc^ then I don't know what changed to affect you, sorry
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[17:17:00]  <papillon81> alanc: i will wait a while and recompile the whole X stuff again
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[18:22:27]  <dberkholz> is there any way to control which screen the cursor starts on?
 [18:26:46]  <dberkholz> i've got a multimonitor setup with a single touchscreen, and the cursor starts out on the wrong screen.
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[18:29:24]  <airlied> dberkholz: don't think so..
 [18:29:37]  <dberkholz> hmm.
 [18:29:56]  <dberkholz> the weird thing is, i want the touchscreen's cursor to show up on its own screen, but it shows up on the other one.
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[19:02:41]  <agd5f> dberkholz: it's one screen
 [19:03:12]  <agd5f> I'm not sure how touch creen would work in a multi-head enviroment
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[19:31:22]  <dberkholz> how i want it to work is to stick to a single monitor
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[19:38:31]  <whot> dberkholz: cursors are hardcoded to show up w/2, h/2 on the first screen
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[19:39:21]  <whot> dberkholz: there is (was?) an api to switch screen for input drivers, but I can't remember it
 [19:42:17]  <whot> and I think it'd only work if you actually have two screens rather than one across monitors
 [19:48:50]  <dberkholz> ok, so i need to get the screens reordered.
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[20:00:28]  <whot> dberkholz: or you could just issue a XWarpPointer after startup, that may work
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----- [2008-06-14] -----
 ----- [2008-06-15] -----
 ----- [2008-06-16] -----
 [09:19:49]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[09:19:49]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[09:19:49]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aaronp agd5f aggelos ahf airlied ajax alanc-away alanc_away alastair Amaranth anholt antrik arekm b0le Battousai bbyer bernie bgoglin bobbens bryce cbmuser cbrake chainsawbike cjb coling compnerd coolray crossbuilder ctyler cworth dagb dan dante darktama_ dberkholz Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds dwmw2 dyek dyek2 eboettcher efw egbert_away emmes glisse gmansi gnawhurd gordonj gustaf1 hachi halfline Hermann hw_ Ingmar jbarnes jcristau JohnFlux joruffin keithp kem leio libv Liskni_si londo LordFly MacSlow maniac103 marcheu marvil07 math_b mattst88 Mercury mherrb mjg59 mmc mraudsepp MrCooper ndim nolan nomego OgreBoy olih onestone Ori_B osiris_ otavio pachi PauloZanoni pdurao pete__c psyquark Q-FUNK RaoulDuke rvalles sangu solarion soren spstarr_work sputters stillunknown svu sxpert t4bz tango_ TBBle tcoppi The_Paya tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker wereHamster whot whydoubt_ wubo z3ro Zeddie Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[09:28:20]  <coolray> Then if setting colormap for a window in X Window System is equivalent to setting colormap for screen then I'd must use something else than available X colormaps.
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[09:49:49]  <coolray> Ok. I'd change in sources of X how it handle Graphic Context setcolor functions and how it handle images.
 [09:50:35]  <coolray> If setcolor sets corrected color silently then nothing should crash? ;-)
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[09:59:58]  <coolray> Images use "put_pixel()" then it's like setcolor: one-time correction for color.
 [10:00:49]  <coolray> I'd never think I'd need to hack into X Lib... ;-)))
 [10:01:52]  <coolray> Well I don't know how to handle "XAddPixel()"...
 [10:02:41]  <coolray> ...desiring on that image viewers don't use it.
 [10:04:02]  <coolray> ...unlike Firefox which probably use this when it displays background effects. It also maybe put modified image.
 [10:05:21]  <coolray> I'll leave this one, it should work appropriately because a relative adding.
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[10:28:54]  <coolray> Just thinkig how I could switch this correction on/off in run-time. Because xlib runs in every separate process memory...
 [10:30:51]  <coolray> Maybe I never should switch, but I'd select X programs/windows which always will be corrected or not.
 [10:31:08]  <coolray> By default corrected...
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[11:23:46]  <coolray> "dixChangeGC()"
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[13:54:25]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ping.
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[13:57:55]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: hi
 [13:58:17]  <Dr_Jakob^ which month will XDC be held?
 [13:58:49]  <daniels> sep 3rd-5th, edinburgh zoo
 [13:58:53]  <daniels> full announce coming anon
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[13:59:13]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: UK?
 [13:59:18]  <Dr_Jakob> Zoo?!
 [14:00:29]  <daniels^ oh sorry, xd_c_
 [14:00:44]  <Dr_Jakob> Err XDS*
 [14:00:53]  <Dr_Jakob> Gah allways mixes those up.
 [14:00:55]  <daniels^ that was xds. :) xdc, i don't know, but i think it's looking more like northern hemisphere awesome.
 [14:01:04]  <daniels> next xds is in edinburgh, scotland, yeah
 [14:01:10]  <Dr_Jakob> ah cool.
 [14:02:36]  <daniels> nearest airport is EDI
 [14:02:42]  <daniels> you can take the overnight train from london if you're kene.
 [14:04:53]  <Dr_Jakob^ I'm waiting for somebody to put up the wiki/Events/XDS2008/Attendees page so I can sign up :-p
 [14:06:23]  <daniels> yeah, give it a few hours.
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[15:54:41]  <coolray> Conversion as default, works. Now I'm thinking how to configure this.
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[16:14:23]  <coolray> An idea of asigning colorspace conversion switch for every window isn't very good. The most of X programs (if not anyone) is made for sRGB by design. I think it'd be better to decide if convert an image or not, instead of window.
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[17:27:26]  <vignatti> weird, I'm seeing some 'Program terminated with signal SIGIO, I/O possible.' msg followed byt segflt after server had finish
 [17:28:04]  <vignatti> seems only using vesa driver
 [17:29:35]  <robert_> does anyone know when the xserver on ubuntu will be updated to version 1.5 with x86_64 support ? it's to complex for me to build, but i would like to get DRI working. i googled and found that fedora released a pre-release version 1.5 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XserverOnePointFive
 [17:29:49]  <cjb^ #ubuntu-x
 [17:30:00]  <robert_> thanks
 [17:34:46]  <vignatti> who else could be sending SIGIO events to server besides the guys who added a hook with xf86InstallSIGIOHandler?
 [17:41:01]  <ajax> root?
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[18:26:30]  <vignatti> #ifdef INHERIT_LOCK_STATE
 [18:26:31]  <vignatti> ?
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[19:25:08]  <warlock_mza> hi
 [19:25:27]  <warlock_mza> how can I get notified when wallpaper changes ? ... so that I can do fake transparency ?
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[01:31:29]  <coolray> what set color of drawable? GC (foreground and background) and XPutImage (any colors)
 [01:31:33]  <coolray> what more?
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[03:26:14]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:58:49]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
 [05:00:05]  <JohnFlux> In kdrive we can accelerate the 'UploadToScratch' function, but is there another way to put a pixmap in offscreen memory?
 [05:00:43]  <JohnFlux> I don't see how a general pixmap can be uploaded to offscreen memory
 [05:01:11]  <JohnFlux> there's UploadToScreen   but that seems to upload directly to the framebuffer (or whatever) memory.
 [05:01:55]  <JohnFlux> is there no way to put a pixmap in video memory without it being on screen or not in scratch?
 [05:02:18]  <airlied^ offscreen is framebuffer memory
 [05:02:30]  <JohnFlux^ right
 [05:02:36]  <airlied> offscreen == framebuffer memory == video memory
 [05:02:43]  <airlied> I can't see why UploadToScreen isn't what you want.
 [05:03:08]  <JohnFlux> Well I set my framebuffer memory to be about 2MB in size
 [05:03:17]  <JohnFlux> and it's supposed to be used for, well, the actual framebuffer
 [05:03:30]  <airlied> so you don't have any offscreen memory then
 [05:04:08]  <JohnFlux> I'm not really following hmm
 [05:04:27]  <JohnFlux> basically my hardware is UMA - the video card uses the system memory
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[05:04:50]  <JohnFlux> so I can put as much as I want in 'video memory'
 [05:04:51]  <airlied> so can the GPU operate on any part of video RAM for accel?
 [05:04:54]  <JohnFlux> right
 [05:05:06]  <JohnFlux> so really I want to put all my pixmaps in video memory
 [05:05:32]  <airlied> well you could just access them in system RAM from the gpu.
 [05:05:48]  <JohnFlux> well, the gpu has its own MMU
[05:06:00]  <JohnFlux> so I need to use a special internal malloc to allocate the memory
 [05:06:21]  <JohnFlux> this malloc returns two pointers - a cpu addressable virtual address and a gpu addressable virtual address
 [05:06:25]  <JohnFlux> does this make sense?
 [05:06:29]  <airlied> not sure how kdrive hooks pixmap allocation..
 [05:06:59]  <airlied> so you would probably need to hook pixmap allocation..
 [05:07:11]  <airlied> so all pixmaps get allocated via that malloc
 [05:07:28]  <JohnFlux> hmm, okay normally..  say you have a video card with 128MB of video memory
 [05:07:39]  <JohnFlux> would you basically set your framebuffer memory size to 128MB?
 [05:07:53]  <JohnFlux> and then upload pixmaps to that using  UploadToScreen?
 [05:08:17]  <JohnFlux> is that how you normally put pixmaps into video memory?
[05:08:42]  <airlied^ yes...
 [05:09:42]  <JohnFlux^ UploadToScreen gets told where to put the pixmap (src).  how is this set?  how does it know where in that 128MB it can put a pixmap?
 [05:10:04]  <airlied^ the offscreen memory manager allocates blocks of space
 [05:10:15]  * airlied hopes there is one but I think Kdrive is like EXA
 [05:10:28]  <JohnFlux> this memory manager is a piece of code in kdrive somewhere?
 [05:11:01]  <airlied> koffscreen.c
 [05:11:53]  <JohnFlux^ before I implemented UploadToScratch, composite etc operations where never done
 [05:12:22]  <JohnFlux> shouldn't it be able to upload pixmaps to offscreen using UploadToScreen, rather than uploading to scratch?
 [05:12:53]  <airlied^ its the problem with having a UMA arch, most gpus have separate VRAM.
 [05:13:06]  * JohnFlux nods
 [05:13:36]  <airlied> I'm not sure what the best kdrive solution is, for EXA we ignore the offscreen and use pixmap alloc hooks in the driver to use memory accessible to the GPU.
 [05:13:39]  <JohnFlux> but even so..  if it can't upload to scratch, shouldn't it just upload to screen instead?
 [05:13:54]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [05:14:13]  <JohnFlux> airlied: in EXA there is a hook for allocating pixmaps?
 [05:15:02]  <airlied^ yeah you can hook the create/modify/destroy pixmap bigts
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[06:27:57]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: don't know about KAA, but in EXA, UploadToScratch is just a fallback for pixmaps that aren't offscreen for some reason
 [06:28:20]  <MrCooper> KAA should move pixmaps offscreen as appropriate, using UploadToScreen or memcpy as a fallback
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[06:31:03]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: have you considered trying to get EXA working with your kdrive server? It's evolved a lot since it was based on KAA, which AFAIK hasn't changed much if at all since
 [06:34:04]  <JohnFlux^ hi
 [06:34:13]  <JohnFlux> well my current plan is to get it working on KAA first
 [06:34:18]  <JohnFlux> then move to EXA
 [06:34:20]  <JohnFlux> :)
 [06:34:53]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: KAA does not appear to memcpy as a fallback or anything
 [06:35:07]  <MrCooper> okay, so long as you're prepared to struggle with issues that may have long been fixed in EXA :)
 [06:35:15]  <JohnFlux^ at least, if I don't have UploadTo*  implemented, prepareComposite is never called
 [06:35:25]  <JohnFlux> well, it will be a learning experience :)
 [06:37:22]  <MrCooper> so maybe KAA requires the driver to provide UploadToScreen even if that just ends up using memcpy
 [06:37:56]  <JohnFlux^ it appears so
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[09:15:10]  <b0le> I got a basic test app, which was using just normal core events, now I am using xi (and multiple pointers). Before I was getting motionNotify events ('constantly' when I had the mouse button pressed), now I just get one when I first press the button (and sometimes one when I release)
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[09:17:02]  <b0le> From what I've read, the granularity of the motionNotify events isn't guaranteed, but I was just wondering if I was doing something wrong (or is such a difference is expected, from just switching to using core to xi events?)
 [09:19:21]  <daniels^ in 1.4 and later, core events are only generated from identical extended events
 [09:21:40]  <b0le^ so if I get lots of motionNotify events when I don't use xi, I should be getting similar amounts when am using xi (and multiple pointers)?
 [09:23:26]  <daniels> correct.
 [09:23:59]  <b0le> thanks, now I just need to find out why I'm not getting them...
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[09:35:15]  <johnflux> How do I print debug output to kdrive's stdout?
 [09:35:37]  <johnflux> I'm using Error("hello") at the moment, but I don't think that's the right approach :)
 [09:36:02]  <daniels> ErrorF and DebugF are the ones, yeah
 [09:37:15]  <johnflux^ out of interest, why is printf  not working? :)
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[09:40:45]  <johnflux> daniels: hmm, I get undefined reference for Debug
 [09:40:49]  <johnflux> and DebugF
 [09:41:40]  <daniels^ DebugF is only in 1.4 or newer
 [09:42:25]  <daniels> printf and fprintf write to specific fds, whereas ErrorF (which DebugF is aliased to when DEBUG is defined) will multiplex to the log as well
 [09:43:58]  <johnflux^ ah
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[09:44:13]  <johnflux> daniels: the thing is, I get ": Interrupted system call"  when I use ErrorF("anything")
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[09:44:28]  <johnflux> daniels: and it appears to quit the function(s?)  it is in
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[09:48:33]  <b0le> figured it out, you can't do DeviceButtonPress(dpy, mbp_type, cls[n++]) - the n++ breaks it
 [09:49:05]  <daniels> yeah, that macro will probably double-eval
 [09:49:32]  <johnflux> b0le: gotta love bugs like that
 [09:49:55]  <johnflux> the macro should probably be fixed to not double-eval
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[10:36:14]  <ajax> hmm.  i kinda want to cherry-pick eamon's 2d7ba09 to 1.5.
 [10:36:26]  <ajax> but kinda not.
 [10:37:20]  <johnflux^ what's that?
[10:37:26]  <ajax> a commit id.
 [10:37:51]  <ajax> less glibly, it makes the devprivate lookup functions ABI rather than macros, which would let us change how they're stored internally
 [10:38:11]  <johnflux> ah
 [10:38:24]  <daniels> any pressing need?
 [10:38:31]  <ajax> not really.
 [10:39:19]  <johnflux> in KAA, there's no offscreen-alloc type hook, right?
 [10:39:22]  <johnflux> like there is in EXA
 [10:51:35]  <ajax> oh hey, he already did cherry it.
 [10:51:40]  <ajax> good enough.
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[11:06:26]  <daniels> 2
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[11:18:24]  <MrCooper> ajax: I'd rather he made the implementation not suck again :}
 [11:23:14]  <cjb> hm:
 [11:23:14]  <cjb> ar: creating libglapi.a
 [11:23:15]  <cjb> gmake[5]: *** No rule to make target `../../../../../src/mesa/libmesa.a', needed by `mach64_dri.so'.  Stop.
 [11:23:27]  <cjb> I think the mesa install target is broken on -j >1
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[11:55:01]  <daniels> cjb: yeah, known issue
 [11:55:09]  <daniels> it's almost like rolling your own build system was some kind of poor idea
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[11:57:01]  <CosmicPenguin> Thats crazy talk
 [11:57:11]  <rvalles> btw
 [11:57:12]  <CosmicPenguin> Its always a good idea to roll your own build system
 [11:57:16]  <rvalles> just what's this?
 [11:57:21]  <CosmicPenguin> also, you should rewrite the libc at every oppertunity
 [11:57:29]  <rvalles> OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
 [11:57:29]  <rvalles> OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.1 rc1
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[11:57:36]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: hey, I had this great idea for a new malloc!
 [11:57:41]  <rvalles> this "software rasterizer" thing is definitivelly new
 [11:57:43]  <rvalles> and: direct rendering: Yes
 [11:57:56]  <MrCooper^ swrast_dri.so
 [11:58:02]  <rvalles> yes, MrCooper, noticed as much
 [11:58:05]  <rvalles> it's curious
 [11:58:18]  <MrCooper^ libGL now loads that when direct rendering is enabled but the real driver fails to initialize for some reason
 [11:58:48]  <rvalles^ I believe it's faster than usual mesa
 [11:58:54]  <rvalles> (software mesa, with no dri)
 [11:59:09]  <rvalles> if so, why not just make the fallbacks faster?
 [11:59:18]  <rvalles> this thing is making me incredibly curious.
 [11:59:25]  <MrCooper> what do you mean?
 [11:59:57]  <MrCooper> by 'usual mesa', do you mean the standalone X11 libGL?
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[12:00:16]  <rvalles> by usual mesa I mean what's used when there's no DRI.
 [12:00:31]  <MrCooper> previously that was indirect rendering
 [12:00:35]  <rvalles> when there's no direct rendering, I mean.
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[12:01:03]  <rvalles> MrCooper: what's the difference? I'm curious.
 [12:01:12]  <MrCooper> so handled in the server by AIGLX or software rendering (which now uses swrast_dri.so as well)
 [12:01:31]  <MrCooper> rvalles: the GLX protocol in the middle, basically :)
 [12:01:59]  <rvalles> aw, I know too little, apparently.
 [12:02:58]  <MrCooper^ indirect rendering marshals the rendering commands and data into GLX protocol on the clients side, then unmarshals and executes in the server
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[12:04:31]  <rvalles> MrCooper: with direct... rendering does happen in the client side?
 [12:04:40]  <MrCooper> right
 [12:05:26]  <daniels> hence the 'direct' bit
 [12:05:33]  <daniels> indirect is server-side, either accelerated or software-rendered
 [12:05:38]  <rvalles> MrCooper: rendering using hardware 3d acceleration on a different machine -> indirect rendering, right?
 [12:05:54]  <rvalles> and is that possible or not, atm? I think I've seen that on some TODO list for an Xorg release.
 [12:06:05]  <daniels^ that's accelerated indirect rendering/aiglx, and yes, that's worked since 7.2 or so.
 [12:06:12]  <rvalles> nice.
 [12:06:16]  <MrCooper^ yes, it's kind of hard to do direct rendering in that case :)
 [12:06:47]  <rvalles> nice.
 [12:07:00]  <MrCooper> and now with swrast_dri.so, the same code can be used on both sides for both software and hardware rendering
 [12:07:12]  <rvalles> in any case, with this new "software rasterizer" as DRI now
 [12:07:28]  <rvalles> I can play some games quite well with wine with just software, which is amazing
 [12:07:30]  <MrCooper> and more importantly, the xserver build no longer requires a Mesa source tree
 [12:07:36]  <rvalles> (totally out of the question, before)
 [12:07:51]  <daniels> MrCooper: \o/
 [12:08:17]  <daniels> only took a further two or three years for us to finish modularisation. :)
 [12:09:21]  <MrCooper> rvalles: it shouldn't make that much of a difference; maybe Wine was still using hardware acceleration somehow
 [12:09:56]  <rvalles^ that'd be amazing; I'm using nouveau.
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[12:10:29]  <MrCooper> hmm, oh well, all the better if it does make a difference :)
 [12:11:01]  <rvalles> x)
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[12:29:54]  <jbarnes> agd5f: is there some sort of fan control available for x850 boards?
 [12:30:12]  <jbarnes> my radeon machine is really loud these days even though I'm not really stressing the card
 [12:30:25]  <daniels^ iirc it's all third-party
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[12:30:33]  <daniels> just mash random i2c busses until something happens ;0
 [12:30:35]  <daniels> ;) even
 [12:30:39]  <Dr_Jakob> jbarnes: did you fix the scanout problems?
 [12:31:15]  <jbarnes^ was working on drm docs yesterday...  I could probably work on it today if you're waiting on it...
 [12:31:18]  <Dr_Jakob^ or clean it out, dust make the cool efficiency drop.
 [12:31:26]  <Dr_Jakob> no just interested.
 [12:31:32]  <jbarnes> oh good point, it's probably dirty
 [12:31:32]  <Dr_Jakob^ I'm still a TTM man :-p
 [12:31:36]  <jbarnes> heh
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[12:32:11]  <jbarnes> daniels: sigh... sounds like backlight fail
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[12:35:08]  <daniels> jbarnes: rather
 [12:35:18]  <daniels> i think mine actually works now rather than just turning off the backlight if the value is anything other than 255, so i won't complain
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[13:17:04]  <agd5f> jbarnes: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/xf86-video-ati/log/?h=agd-powerplay
 [13:17:15]  <jbarnes^ sweet, I'll check it out
 [13:17:39]  <agd5f> if your board exposes any powerplay modes, you can switch them statically
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[13:21:42]  <jbarnes> agd5f: branch looks a couple months old, has it been merged into master yet?
 [13:22:47]  <agd5f> no.  It really wants gpu objects so that you can change the powerplay mode dynamically
 [13:24:09]  <agd5f> or sysfs in the drm
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[13:41:47]  <MrCooper> whot: http://people.freedesktop.org/~daenzer/dix-swapevent-crash.diff fixes a crash I'm getting with byte-swapped clients, but I'm not sure it's correct for all cases
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[13:44:15]  <aaronp> ajax: We should probably bump the ABI version to 4.1 due to Eamon's change.  Drivers built against the older ABI headers should still work as long as the devPrivates internal format doesn't change,
 [13:44:23]  <aaronp> but drivers built against the new server won't work on 1.4.99.90[12]
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[14:27:23]  <ajax> aaronp: true.
 [14:27:46]  <ajax> at least in master.  4.0's safe for 1.5 as long as we don't ever change that.
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[14:33:39]  <aaronp> No, it's not.  Drivers built against server-1.5-branch HEAD will have unresolved references to symbols that don't exist in 1.4.99.90[12]
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[14:37:19]  <ajax> ah, right.
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[14:48:01]  <ajax> aaronp: should be ansic version though, not video version.  right?  the devprivates are global ABI, not just video ABI
 [14:49:55]  <aaronp> Are drivers checked against the ansic version?  It seems like the version should probably be bumped for all of the ABIs.
 [14:50:02]  <aaronp> This whole ABI class thing is a little weird.
 [14:50:39]  <ajax> i believe it's that everything is checked against the ansic version, and then against its module class' version.  one sec while i check.
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[14:54:06]  <ajax> wow, i hate this code.
 [14:55:01]  <daniels> you don't say.
 [14:55:41]  <ajax> yeah, i'm wrong.  you only get checked against the module class you declare yourself as.
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[14:57:33]  <daniels> this is, of course, fixable
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[14:58:44]  <ajax> no, i don't think it is.
 [14:59:34]  <ajax> XF86ModuleVersionInfo only has one class version slot.  there's nowhere to put the ansic version you expect.
 [14:59:41]  <vignatti> tinderbox scrutinizes xvfb as well?
 [14:59:53]  <vignatti> cjb: hi chris. Do you have an idea?
 [15:00:23]  <daniels> ajax: awesome.
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[15:03:15]  <vignatti> I'm getting './hw/vfb/Xvfb: symbol lookup error: /opt/mpx//lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_add_dispatch'
 [15:03:43]  <vignatti> and seems that all env vars are correctly
 [15:05:22]  <vignatti> hummm... oopss. I think tinderbox only checks for compilation errors, right?
 [15:05:23]  <ajax> so yeah, i'm thinking either back that out of 1.5, or bump the minor abi of everything.
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[15:33:23]  <ajax> oh thank the baby jesus, our bz has bug aliases now.
 [15:37:10]  <daniels> fd.o's? has had for years.
 [15:37:21]  <daniels> or do you mean rh?
 [15:40:17]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: actually, I might have someone available to perform the GX1 merge during July.
 [15:40:32]  <CosmicPenguin> WIlling to sign on the dotted line?
 [15:41:06]  <Q-FUNK^ I'll soon find out.
 [15:41:53]  <Q-FUNK> it would still be too late for the next stable Debian and for the next Ubuntu point release, but better late than never.
 [15:42:57]  <ajax> daniels: i mean fdo's.  rhbz had it first, fdo only got it when we moved to 3.0 which wasn't that long ago.
 [15:43:53]  <ajax> (--) NV(0): Found an LVDS Panel -268375673x-268374263
 [15:44:11]  <ajax> frank discussion about drug abuse
 [15:46:13]  <drago01>
[15:50:06]  <ajax> why do i let xaa live.
 [15:50:27]  <leio> because exa performs so bad?
 [15:50:34]  <ajax> wfm yo
 [15:50:47]  <leio> tried compiling noisy stuff in gnome-terminal?
 [15:50:57]  <ajax> only, you know, every day.
 [15:51:19]  <drago01> because else some people will decide to not let you live ;)
[15:51:22]  <leio> and keeping that tab active and in front, etc.
 [15:51:36]  <ajax> up, enter.
 [15:51:39]  <pjones> using a compiler to determine interactive terminal speed is...
 [15:51:42]  <leio> I'll get my shit to latest and knock on your door then if it's still slow
 [15:51:42]  <pjones> an interesting mistake.
 [15:52:35]  <leio> It was a real use case example, not a benchmark example.
 [15:53:00]  <anholt^ no.  you don't say "it's slow"  you sysprof and fallback debug and provide logs.
 [15:53:34]  <pjones> if you want builds to be fast, buffer them to something other than a display.  if you want your display to be fast, do what anholt said.
 [15:53:51]  <leio> done plenty of that, yes. I'll do that again soon.
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[15:54:43]  <drago01> so ajax 1.6 = xaa's death ? ;)
 [15:56:55]  <ajax> dunno.  maybe.
 [15:57:13]  <drago01> fglrx will break badly ... people will cry
[15:57:18]  <ajax> the only real exa fallback i know of anymore is when people are dumb and use tiled or stippled modes.
 [15:57:24]  <ajax> and, well.
 [15:57:35]  <ajax> that's fixable, just gross.
 [15:57:45]  <aaronp^ You mean you *don't* draw the root weave all day?
 [15:58:12]  * drago01 wonders what ever happend to glucose
 [15:58:16]  <ajax> aaronp: the app that actually triggers it most for people is some system monitoring app that happens to draw stippled lines.
 [15:58:19]  <DrNick> Fedora doesn't draw the root weave ever
 [15:58:22]  <ajax> whose name escapes me atm/
 [15:58:34]  <mjg59> DrNick: Sure it does
 [15:58:39]  <DrNick> nope
 [15:58:43]  <daniels> ajax: eh? fd.o got it when i bumped to 2.22, which was _ages_ ago.
 [15:58:52]  <ajax^ i must not have seen it.
 [15:58:56]  <mjg59> DrNick: Just running X gives root weave
 [15:59:00]  <DrNick> straight from black to the gdm background to your own background
 [15:59:34]  <aaronp^ Does it still do that by patching out the weave pattern in the server, or is it fixed to use -br now?
 [15:59:44]  <ajax> we just use -br from gdm
 [15:59:46]  <mjg59> DrNick: Only if you pass -br
 [15:59:52]  <ajax> krh got tired of carrying the patch
 [15:59:55]  <ajax> (rightly so)
 [16:00:01]  <aaronp> Oh good.  That always bugged me.
 [16:00:04]  <daniels> don't forget -wr as well, for those of us who aren't goths.
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[16:00:22]  <ajax> daniels: actually we'll have a -nr shortly
 [16:00:22]  <daniels^ i added aliases for all the releases i remember (e.g. xorg-server-1.4.1)
 [16:00:29]  <daniels> n?
 [16:00:32]  <ajax> no.
 [16:00:36]  <ajax> bg=None, more or less
 [16:00:44]  <daniels> er ...
 [16:00:55]  <ajax> which lets you inherit fb contents from the kernel for seamless transition and no redundant paint
 [16:00:56]  <aaronp> Nice.  That'll leave a nice big NVIDIA logo on the screen for us.  :)
 [16:00:57]  <daniels> why not just predictable backPixel?
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[16:01:16]  <daniels> ajax: oh, right.  yeah, i have the bit where the root window is exposed #if 0'ed out.
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[16:02:17]  <ajax> conky.  that's the name.
 [16:04:48]  <ajax> okay, totally sick of XAA's Render accel now.
 [16:06:58]  <anholt> "render accel"
 [16:07:48]  <ajax> i suspect we should just replace it with "evict all involved pixmaps from vram and fall through to fb"
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[16:08:28]  <airlied> ajax: I thought you decided to stop pixmaps in VRAM for XAA.
 [16:08:37]  <ajax^ well that's what i'm shipping in fedora
 [16:08:53]  <ajax> but i'd kind of like copyarea to work i guess
 [16:10:44]  <ajax> meh.  yeah, screw it, no offscreen pixmaps no more.
 [16:15:48]  <daniels> wow, 16399.  how pedestrian.
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[16:17:05]  <ajax> i know.  i'm disappointed in me too.
 [16:18:58]  <aaronp> I wonder if you can enter a number in the bug alias field... specifically another bug number.
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[16:31:52]  <agd5f> ajax: when do I need to have radeon 6.9.0 released to make it in 7.4?
 [16:32:14]  <ajax> say, end of next week?
 [16:32:18]  <ajax> maybe the one after?
 [16:32:19]  <agd5f> can do
 [16:32:26]  <ajax> but yeah, earlier better.
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[18:14:20]  <tjaalton> ajax: what about this patch for 1.5/master? http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/foo/default_to_intel.diff
 [18:15:22]  <tjaalton> not that huge a deal since the distros should have dropped -i810 by now and provided a symlink to intel_drv.so
 [18:17:29]  <daniels> looks fine for me at least, but i assume 'return "psb";' is ubuntu-specific damage?
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[18:18:03]  <tjaalton> daniels: it is, and to be exact, intel is already upstream (duh!) :)
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[18:18:19]  <tjaalton> I'll get me coat..
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[18:43:17]  <svu> daniels, your answer about CARD16 is rather harsh:)
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[18:43:57]  <daniels> svu: well, it's true ... :)
 [18:46:36]  <svu^ I know but you just shot the guy into his head:) He seemed so full of hopes:)
 [18:48:15]  <daniels> heh
 [18:49:08]  <svu^ any chance to have new xkbcomp by xmas?
 [18:49:37]  <daniels^ tbh, i have no idea, you'd have to ask keithp
 [18:49:47]  <svu> why?
 [18:49:53]  <svu> is he doing it?
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[18:50:55]  <daniels> yeah
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[18:54:40]  <libv> daniels: cute.
 [18:58:55]  <daniels^ hm?
 [18:59:04]  <libv> xorg@
 [19:05:24]  <daniels^ what'd i miss?
 [19:05:49]  <libv> your statement about the radeonhd ml?
 [19:06:41]  <daniels> yeah, just got your response now
 [19:06:44]  <libv> i'm sure you remember the answer you gave egbert, your fellow board member, at XDS, when he asked you.
 [19:07:34]  <daniels> board or not doesn't matter shit.  whether you filed a bug, sent me an email, poked me on irc, asked me in person, sent an sms, or simply skywrote CAN I PLEASE HAVE A LIST ON FD.O over ruoholahti, also doesn't matter shit.
 [19:08:04]  <daniels> as i've said, your request got handled about as quickly as other fd.o admin requests -- certainly at the same speed as things filed right before or during xds were.
 [19:09:03]  <daniels> if you want to say we're shit, then that's fine; i'll happily back you up on that one.  if you want to claim that i'm trying to sabotage the x.org foundation board or something (why else would egbert's bod membership be relevant?), i'm interested in where that one's going.
 [19:09:28]  <libv> well, it was not a time issue back then.
 [19:14:38]  <daniels> by the time it got to the bugzilla, it was bugzilla + git + commit list.  #12459 + #12452.  i don't have anything from you or egbert about radeonhd in email.  if your point is that i forgot something i was asked irl in the middle of a conference i was running -- again, sure, i can believe that.
 [19:14:47]  <daniels> there's a reason we ask for everything in bz.
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[19:18:47]  <libv> my understanding is that you found a mailing list completely superfluous, i of course have no direct transcription of the conversation you and egbert had over this.
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[19:23:20]  <daniels> libv: i probably would've said 'yeah, just use xorg@ until it becomes a problem and we can split it out', yes.
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[19:27:29]  <adamw> quick question about the radeon / r128 / mach64 split: which bit should support mach32 cards? mach64 ?
 [19:28:14]  <airlied^ mach32 if it still lives is in mach64.
 [19:28:23]  <airlied> but we may have removed it, as really mach32 ..
 [19:28:26]  <libv> adamw: the original split out of mach64 contained a statement in the README that a separate mach32 driver would be mandatory, but that, since i didn't have the hardware to implement it
 [19:28:34]  <adamw> okay
 [19:28:46]  <libv^ mach32 support was removed from the mach64 driver as well though
 [19:28:47]  <adamw> i've got two IDs in our (Mandriva's) database for Mach32 cards
 [19:28:48]  <airlied> is mach32 isa only?
 [19:28:55]  <airlied> adamw: oh there was pci ones..
 [19:28:58]  <libv^ no, there are some pci devices
 [19:29:02]  <adamw> well, that, or they're bogus entries :)
 [19:29:14]  <adamw> the IDs I have are 0084 , 0088 and 4141
 [19:29:16]  <libv> there's a card here at suse
 [19:29:35]  <adamw> so i guess all I can do is map them to a generic driver (vesa or fbdev) then?
 [19:29:39]  <airlied> libv: does any driver work on it? I assume vesa might not
 [19:29:51]  <libv> vesa is indeed a no go
 [19:29:54]  <libv> this predates vbe
 [19:29:58]  <adamw> how about vga or fbdev ?
 [19:30:13]  <libv> vga, sure, no clue about fb
 [19:30:19]  <adamw> i'll go with vga then
 [19:30:20]  <adamw> thanks guys
 [19:30:23]  <libv> yw
 [19:30:31]  <airlied> I think vga is mostly killed also.
 [19:30:49]  <libv> nobody has ever written up an int10 driver
 [19:30:50]  <adamw> you mean to tell me current X.org doesn't care about obscure fifteen year old graphics cards? for shame!
 [19:31:11]  <libv> at least not for xfree86 4.x.x and descendants
 [19:31:17]  <adamw> feh, i'll map them to vga and the world's sole remaining user can bug me about it if it doesn't work
 [19:31:17]  <libv> because that would be perfect in this situation
 [19:31:48]  <daniels> it's a new and untested plan, but we're trying it.  if someone else wants to care, they're more than welcome, but time seems to have shown that the only people who are interested are tsi and libv.
 [19:31:50]  <libv> and would be the handhold between the ledge that is vesa, and the steep drop that is vga :)
 [19:32:16]  <airlied> yeah I'm sure we could port XFree86 mach32 support :)
 [19:32:28]  <airlied> oh wait I also have some rusty nails and a hammer.
 [19:32:46]  <adamw> just a sec, I have to feed the hamsters that power my 286
 [19:33:08]  <airlied> granted I laugh now that XFree86 imported radeon :)
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[19:35:25]  <adamw> anyone know offhand whether "Rage Mobility" (not Rage 128 Mobility) and "Rage XL" chips would be r128 or mach64 ?
 [19:35:39]  <daniels> mach64
 [19:36:10]  <adamw> k
 [19:36:14]  <adamw> think that covers everything...
 [19:37:08]  <adamw> it's ironic, back in late 2006 i revised all our card definitions down into nice little simplified groups, so i combined the rage 128 and mach 64 cards into a single group. now i'm pulling the pre-2006 lists out of svn so i can split them back up again :)
 [19:40:19]  <tjaalton> ajax: what about cherry-picking fbad87f2ae9f97fcb for 1.5?
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[20:45:16]  <DrNick> so, how would one go about convincing the X server that it really wants to discard it's cached copy of the size 9 DejaVu LGC Sans 'X' glyph?
 [20:45:33]  <DrNick> since something seems to have replaced it with two vertical bars
 [20:46:41]  <airlied^ hmm force more glyphs in?
 [20:46:55]  <DrNick> I suspect that will be hard to do with XChat running
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[20:47:36]  <DrNick> oh, hey, switching VTs worked
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[21:21:43]  <jg> ping keithp
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[22:33:09]  <jg_> ping keithp
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[02:25:08]  <airlied> whot: you know that "feature" where the keyboard moves the mouse pinter if you hit ctrl-shift-numlock..
 [02:25:15]  <airlied> a) is that still in the codebase?
 [02:25:21]  <airlied> b) where the hell does it live
 [02:27:19]  <whot^ a) maybe b) probably xkb
 [02:27:34]  <DrNick> xkb/xkbAccessX.c
 [02:27:52]  <DrNick> props to me for remember that it's called AccessX
 [02:28:07]  <airlied^ nice.. thanks,
 [02:29:54]  <airlied> so wierdly on F9 hitting numlock seems to enable it.
 [02:30:04]  <airlied> or its enabled by default..
 [02:30:10]  <airlied> if I hit numlock I get it.
 [02:30:21]  <airlied> if I then hit ctrl-shift-numlock it goes away
 [02:30:27]  <airlied> and I can numlock on/off to get my keypad
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[02:45:43]  <daniels> airlied: yeesh.  does the behaviour change if you hit some other key first?
 [02:46:05]  <daniels> don't suppose you could run xkbcomp -xkb :0 xkbfoo.txt before you've ever hit a key and send me the output?
 [02:51:22]  <airlied^ I'll see if I can, I can't kill my current session..
 [02:51:34]  <airlied> I'll also try and see if it happens with a bare X server.
 [02:51:40]  <airlied> just in case GNOME is bonging it
 [02:53:12]  <daniels^ tbh, i don't even have a working full-size keyboard at home (just the x60s), so that's probably the only reason i haven't come across this.
 [02:53:12]  <MrCooper> whot: thanks for pushing the event byte-swapping fix
 [02:59:06]  <whot^ no worries, thanks for the patch
 [02:59:44]  <MrCooper> I didn't really have a choice but to fix it :)
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[03:11:25]  <whot> hehe
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[03:15:37]  <Dodji> hello
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[03:21:51]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:29:35]  <coolray> One question?
 [06:30:07]  <daniels> no need to ask to ask: just ask.
 [06:31:31]  <coolray> Xlib level. What function is able to set color of pixel? I know two: GC foreground and bacground color setters and CopyArea copying image colors.
 [06:31:56]  <coolray> I modified the two, but there is something else yet.
 [06:32:27]  <coolray> Some applications paints card widget bacground with original color.
 [06:32:34]  <daniels> probably XRenderComposite
 [06:32:52]  <daniels> also the primitive draw/fill functions
 [06:33:17]  <coolray> The last use GC color, right?
 [06:33:35]  <daniels> right
 [06:33:54]  <coolray> Then I'll check the function you put.
 [06:34:03]  <daniels> (for whichever gc they're using, which may be different to the one you're using.)
 [06:34:27]  <daniels> have you thought about something like xscope to simply look at the commands going over the wire?
 [06:34:36]  <daniels> (also, XPutImage and the SHM equivalent)
 [06:34:36]  <coolray> I modified XChangeGC function in "dix" then I probably have every GC.
 [06:34:49]  <coolray> Ok, XPutImage done.
 [06:35:22]  <coolray> The only problem is with tab widget bacground and other few widget bacgrounds.
 [06:35:25]  <coolray> Nothing else.
 [06:35:52]  <daniels> i'd definitely be looking at XRenderComposite.
 [06:35:57]  <coolray> Ok.
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[07:06:33]  <CE> Hi
 [07:07:26]  <CE> what does RepeatPad and RepeatReflect mean in XRenderPictureAttributes?
 [07:07:49]  <CE> normal and none is clear, but reflect and pad confuses me ;)
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[07:16:33]  <wereHamster> I need to attach a list of <XID, blob> tuples to a window. XID is clear and blob is binary data (up to a few kbytes). I'm trying to use window properties, but I'm stuck at how to attach the blob. I know window properties can be lists, but I fail to see how it would be possible to attach a list of tuples where each tuple has different size (size of the blob is not known). Any hints what else I could do?
 [07:18:25]  <daniels> serialise the blob to a string
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[07:31:35]  <wereHamster> and then attach "XID blob_string XID blob_string ..." to the window and use the fact that strings are zero-terminated to find out where one tuple ends and the next begins?
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[07:40:15]  <daniels> wereHamster: or just do the old pascal strings trick
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[07:49:16]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
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[07:49:51]  <JohnFlux> on the kdrive, in picturestr.h there's a _PictFormat  structure which contains fields like   type, depth  etc.  How do i find out what these mean? :)
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[08:17:32]  <daniels> JohnFlux: these correspond to XRender picture types
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[08:58:48]  <JohnFlux> daniels: are they defined somewhere or something?
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[08:59:26]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I can see that for my RGB565 pixmap it is set to  0x20565   - presumably the 0 is alpha.  the 2 maybe means the number of bytes?
 [09:00:03]  <JohnFlux> hmm no.  a ARGB8888 pixmap is set to 0x28888 format
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[09:05:35]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I'm not getting much luck googling for 'xrender picture types'
 [09:05:47]  <JohnFlux> and the code is totally undocumented :(
 [09:10:27]  <daniels> 2 probably just means argb.  if you want the numerical values, i think the ctors are in include/picture.h
 [09:10:50]  <daniels> render/picture.h, yeah.
 [09:12:03]  <JohnFlux^ ah the 2 indicates the order of the ARGB
 [09:12:14]  <JohnFlux> as opposed to ARBG 
[09:12:15]  <daniels> right
 [09:12:15]  <JohnFlux> thanks!
 [09:12:17]  <daniels> np
 [09:13:30]  <JohnFlux^ I hope that eventually I can work on kdrive/xorg
 [09:13:30]  <JohnFlux> once I understand it well enough :)
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[09:29:39]  <dr-xorg> hi
 [09:29:40]  <dr-xorg> when trying to build xorg (libs =git HEAD, mesa = 7_0_branch, xserver = 1.4-branch, intel-driver = 2.3-branch), the intel driver compile dies with:
 [09:29:40]  <dr-xorg> "In file included from i810_driver.c:88:i830.h:73:20: error: xf86mm.h: No such file or directory
 [09:29:40]  <dr-xorg> In file included from i810_driver.c:88:
 [09:29:40]  <dr-xorg> i830.h:199: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'drmBO'
 [09:29:41]  <dr-xorg> make[4]: *** [i810_driver.lo] Error 1
 [09:30:18]  <dr-xorg> is the libdrm-2.3-branch meant to be usable in that setup or is that expected behaviour?
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[09:31:58]  <daniels> JohnFlux: which version are you using, btw?
 [09:32:55]  <JohnFlux^ 2004 version of kdrive
 [09:35:18]  <daniels> yeesh!
 [09:35:27]  <daniels> you should probably update ...
 [09:35:45]  <JohnFlux^ i will.. eventually
 [09:35:47]  <JohnFlux> :-D
 [09:36:03]  <daniels> it's much easier for us to help you if we're looking at the codebase, as opposed to one with bugs we fixed four years ago. :)
 [09:36:58]  <JohnFlux^ sure, but we use what our customers use :)
 [09:37:41]  <JohnFlux> can you think of anything in particular that the new kdrive version has?
 [09:39:32]  <daniels> a lot of speed improvements, mainly.
 [09:39:42]  <JohnFlux^ that's cool
 [09:41:32]  <wereHamster> daniels, I don't know pascal string tricks, I'm too young to know those :P
 [09:42:13]  <mraudsepp^ storage starts with the string length in front, instead of a \0 in the end, basically
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[11:48:28]  <Trevelyan`> Hi. Xorg's compose key does not seem to have mappings for inverted circumflexes, eg in ex. Could v be made to do this? eg compose v e
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[11:52:24]  <daniels> Trevelyan`: in bare xlib apps, yes (edit /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose), but gtk+ has its own compose table.
 [11:53:22]  <Trevelyan`> i note that v z got re only in gtk apps, but that seems to be the only v .. one that i came across.
 [11:56:27]  <Trevelyan`> hmm that looks like a dangerous file to open in an editor
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[11:58:35]  <daniels> er, it's just plain text?
 [11:59:14]  <Trevelyan`> clobbering all the special char by accident was my worry
 [12:00:44]  <Trevelyan`> DejaVu has probably has the most glyphs of any fonts i've seen, and still there are plenty that wont show, and so i can't easily check as i would normally.
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[12:03:54]  <Trevelyan`> ohh what fun it does have <Multi_key> <c> <G> : "r ", as opposed to my guess v G. which works in qt, but not gtk. so it would seem that i'm in the wrong channel
 [12:04:10]  <Trevelyan`> daniels, thank you.
 [12:04:34]  <daniels> right, as i said, gtk+ has its own compose table, but if you submit a sensible patch upstream, it'll get into xlib, and later into a gtk release (as current gtk now just uses xlib to build its compose table).
 [12:06:10]  <Trevelyan`> apparently the 'down arrow' is called a Caron, hence the c G. but most other maps are based on look, hence my assumption of v G
 [12:06:29]  <daniels> it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to add tbh
 [12:06:36]  <daniels> feel free to submit a patch to bz, i'll try to pick it up and integrate it
 [12:06:58]  <Trevelyan`> xorg's c G is fine once you know it. strange that GTK doesn't support c G, especially if its based on xlibs table.
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[12:07:54]  <daniels> in newer releases, it's just the xlib table, but for older releases, it's something they just made up, with the aim of saving space.
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[12:08:28]  <Trevelyan`> daniels, i will discuss this with my Czech friend, if I make changes for her i'll look into submitting it.
 [12:09:25]  <daniels> rad, thanks
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[12:28:01]  <wereHamster> who is responsible for allocating and freeing the rects of a region? I don't see any functions for adding/removing rects from a Region. All I see is XCreate/DestroyRegion()
 [12:30:00]  <wereHamster> I need to convert a XserverRegion into a Region, getting the XRectangle's from the server region is easy, but I don't see any way how to add these to the clients-side Region object
 [12:30:12]  <maniac103^ XDestroyRegion will free all rects ... they'll be allocated as necessary
 [12:30:30]  <maniac103> you probably want XCreateRegion and n times XUnionRectWithRegion
 [12:30:42]  <maniac103> n being the number of rectangles in the server region
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[12:31:57]  <wereHamster> can I use the same region as src_region and dest_region_return in XUnionRectWithRegion() ?
 [12:32:34]  <maniac103> I think so, yes
 [12:33:09]  <wereHamster> ok, compiz does so, so I'll do that, too
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[14:33:59]  <wereHamster> xfixes regions (XserverRegion), does it have restrictions that all rectangles have to overlap? I can't create a region that has two distinct rectangles
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[15:43:24]  <agd5f> are there any good git to perforce tools?
 [15:43:55]  <anholt^ ouch
 [15:44:17]  <anholt> I never got git-p4import to work because it was so slow
 [15:44:25]  <anholt> ("it" being p4)
 [15:44:43]  <agd5f> I'll just stick with patch migration for now
 [15:53:40]  <daniels^ i'm so sorry
 [15:54:50]  <agd5f^ heh
 [15:55:02]  <stillunknown> What's p4?
 [15:55:28]  <Ingmar> perforce
 [15:55:57]  <stillunknown> Which is some version control system?
 [15:56:14]  <Ingmar> Yeah
 [15:57:58]  <Ori_B> agd5f: ooh, neat, never knew about git-p4import
 [15:58:09]  <Ori_B> is it bidirectional? (ie, can I submit changes to p4?)
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[17:48:54]  <vignatti> dberkholz: seems that our feeds from wordpress are still addressed wrong in planet :(
 [17:49:00]  <vignatti> any hints how to fix this?
 [18:02:46]  <dberkholz^ i asked ajax to try switching to the atom feed instead of the rss, i don't know whether he did
 [18:03:06]  <dberkholz> basically /feed/atom instead of /feed
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[21:47:48]  <benh> hrm
 [21:47:55]  <benh> somebody around understand the brain dead debian packaging of X ?
 [21:48:08]  <benh> I think I have installed about every damn -dev package on this side of the planet
 [21:48:17]  <benh> and autogen.sh of a fresh out of git driver still gives me
 [21:48:20]  <benh> checking whether XSERVER_LIBPCIACCESS is declared... no
 [21:48:21]  <benh> ./configure: line 21647: XORG_MANPAGE_SECTIONS: command not found
 [21:48:21]  <benh> ./configure: line 21648: XORG_RELEASE_VERSION: command not found
 [21:48:35]  <spstarr> you missing the xorg server-dev package?
 [21:48:40]  <benh> nope
 [21:48:53]  * spstarr in Fedora land now, but i remember needing some server package for those macros
 [21:50:10]  <benh> I think I have about as many server package installed as you can get
 [21:50:22]  * spstarr checks the debian pool
 [21:50:51]  <benh> haha
 [21:50:57]  <benh> the 2 last ones were in .... xutils-dev :-)
 [21:51:01]  <spstarr> oh that one
 [21:51:04]  <benh> which is -not- part of the build deps of any of the drivers
 [21:51:13]  <benh> now the worry is ....
 [21:51:15]  <benh> checking whether XSERVER_LIBPCIACCESS is declared... no
 [21:51:27]  <spstarr> you have libpciaccess-dev?
 [21:51:28]  <benh> note that libpciaccess itself -is- there and installed (including its -dev package)
 [21:51:30]  <benh> yes
 [21:51:31]  <spstarr> or whatever its called
 [21:51:32]  <spstarr> hmm
 [21:51:42]  <benh> I -HOPE- they don't still build X without libpciaccess support
 [21:58:08]  <benh> omh the amount of patches in there is scary
 [21:58:36]  <kagerato> building X is scary.
 [21:58:49]  <benh> straight from git it's not :-)
 [21:58:56]  <benh> what distros do to it is
 [21:59:49]  <kagerato> yeah, debian/ubuntu's packaging is a little broken
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[21:59:53]  <kagerato> to say the least..
 [22:02:08]  <kagerato> the entire system has some kind of circular dependency on x11-apps, as far as I can tell
 [22:02:49]  <kagerato> such that the package can't be removed without taking X with it, even though nothing in it appears to be important enough to warrant that
 [22:02:58]  <kagerato> and that's not even getting into development packages.
 [22:03:51]  <benh> which Xorg release ships with libpciaccess support ?
 [22:04:23]  <benh> none ?
 [22:04:30]  <benh> whatever's in debian doesn't have it
 [22:04:36]  <benh> (can't even enable it, it's not in the source)
 [22:06:46]  <kagerato> it seems to be rather recent
 [22:08:02]  <mattst88> xserver-1.5 will be the first to use libpciaccess, I believe.
 [22:08:05]  <benh> well, it's been in git for ages and in fc7 agaik :-)
 [22:08:11]  <benh> mattst88: hrm ok, a shame
 [22:08:28]  <benh> considering how broken PCI support is in the old code
 [22:08:34]  <benh> espcially on anything with domains
 [22:08:38]  <mattst88> well, it's turning out to be a bad thing for us alpha users :)
 [22:08:51]  <kagerato> yeah, looks like it was introduced in second half of 2007
 [22:08:56]  <mattst88> the few that there are, that is.
 [22:09:13]  <benh^ that should be easily fixed no ?
 [22:09:14]  <kagerato> and now drivers and other code are being updated to use it
 [22:09:17]  <kagerato> http://egbert-e.livejournal.com/tag/opensuse
 [22:09:45]  <mattst88> benh, it would, but we're missing a feature in the kernel (http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10893)
 [22:10:05]  <benh> vga arbiter ?
 [22:10:13]  <benh> oic
 [22:10:21]  <benh> yeah, I suppose arch/alpha is bitrotting
 [22:10:26]  <mattst88> and the feature is missing because (1) it's never been needed, (2) first couple generations of alphas lack hardware support for it to work
 [22:12:49]  * benh gets scared every time X tries to "fix" PCI resource allocation...
 [22:12:54]  <benh> which it doesn't understand a bit about
 [22:14:42]  <kagerato> X tries to be an operating system and fails miserably ~_~
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----- [2008-06-19] -----
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[00:10:04]  <ball> Hello.  I'm hoping to use an Intel Atom board with X.org (on NetBSD, or possibly Ubuntu). I'm told it has an Intel GMA950 graphics adaptor (probably integrated into the chipset).  Should I expect that to work?
 [00:10:29]  <Amaranth> I thought the Atom used a GMA500
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[00:10:38]  <Amaranth> which is actually a modified PowerVR chip
 [00:10:45]  <Amaranth> which afaik has absolutely zero support
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[00:11:21]  <Ori_B> 950 isn't in the manpage for supported either, but I dont' know.
 [00:11:37]  <Amaranth> 950 is just what apple calls the 945, I thought
 [00:11:54]  <Ori_B^ quite possibly.
 [00:12:14]  <ball+ Intel are calling it that too... http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/D945GCLF/index.htm
 [00:12:14]  <Amaranth> I know Apple claimed they were using something called the 950
 [00:12:48]  <Amaranth> ball: Oh, that's a desktop board. It has a 945 chipset
 [00:13:06]  <Amaranth> If it doesn't work right now it's probably very little work to make it do so
 [00:13:23]  <Amaranth> But this is not really a question for #xorg-devel, more like #ubuntu or #netbsd
 [00:13:38]  <Amaranth> I suspect it'll work out of the box on an Ubuntu install though
 [00:13:40]  <ball^ Ah, sorry.  I misunderstood.
 [00:14:15]  <ball> Amaranth, Ori_B: thanks for the help.
 [00:14:17]  <Amaranth^ Don't worry, it's just Wikipedia lying to me
 [00:14:35]  <Ori_B^ well, I pointed him here just because the people that knew exactly what the Intel driver supported tend to hang out here
 [00:15:03]  <Amaranth> "The Intel System Controller Hub U15W for the Atom embedded processor features a GMA 500 graphic system. Rather than being developed in-house, this core is a PowerVR SGX core licensed from Imagination Technologies."
 [00:15:09]  <Amaranth> I figured you were dealing with that
 [00:15:20]  <Ori_B> *bed*
 [00:15:32]  <Amaranth> I wonder what the eee 901 uses
 [00:15:39]  <ball^ That doesn't sound encouraging then.
 [00:15:47]  * ball writes that down anyway
 [00:15:51]  <Amaranth^ You don't have that, you seem to have the 945
 [00:16:04]  <ball^ how can you tell?
 [00:16:09]  <Amaranth^ only one way to know for sure though, install ubuntu and see if compiz is working by default :P
 [00:16:40]  <ball^ I haven't ordered the board yet.
 [00:17:02]  <ball> It's on my shortlist though, so I though I'd check important things like X.org support.
 [00:17:13]  <Amaranth> I guess Intel calls the video on the 945 chipset GMA950
 [00:17:31]  <Amaranth> I've never heard someone call it that though, it's just 945. Anyway, great support.
 [00:17:54]  <ball> I hope so, the board looks promising otherwise.
 [00:18:04]  <ball> Pity it doesn't have DVI-D and FireWire though.
 [00:18:19]  <ball> ...and perhaps S/P-DIF out
 [00:18:33]  <Amaranth> Just make sure you don't end up with one of those GMA500 things
 [00:18:58]  <ball> If it does, I'll put Windows on it and give it to Mrs. ball.
 [00:19:24]  <Amaranth> jeez, the eee is kind of losing the point
 [00:19:33]  <Amaranth> new one has a 10" screen and costs over $600
 [00:19:42]  <ball^ that's exactly what my friend Skully said to me the other day.
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[00:20:17]  <Amaranth> for that price you can get a toshiba or whatever with a 14" screen, core 2, 3GB ram, etc
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[00:22:19]  <ball> Amaranth: I've thought about something like that for Mrs. ball. Can't afford it this birthday though.
 [00:26:32]  <ball> ...For myself, I'd rather have something like a Cambridge Z88, but with a 640x240 supertwist LCD, WiFi and the ability to run unix.
 [00:27:05]  <ball> ...think I'll be waiting a while for that.
 [00:27:24]  <ball> I'd consider active matrix LCD instead of supertwist.
 [00:28:55]  <ball> I've just noticed that it's time for me to head home.
 [00:29:04]  <ball> Hopefully back on here in about an hour.
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[02:42:03]  <aaronp> Is all this talk about threading *really* just to make mouse movement smoother when the server is swapping???
 [02:42:26]  <aaronp> It seems like just adding a stick of RAM to your system is a much easier and better fix.
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[02:56:48]  <mherrb> updates of the mouse pointer are currently done in the SIGIO handler. Moving it to a thread won't changes lots of user experience.
 [02:57:49]  <mherrb> but the current signal handler potentially calls functions that are not async-signal safe. In a thread, it's easier to handle.
 [02:58:31]  <mherrb> and keyboard input can't be handled in the signal handler at all because of all the non-async-signal safe code that has to be called.
 [02:58:33]  <benh_^ it will cause other problems
 [02:59:06]  <benh_> the thread will grow code that doesn't mutex properly, driver gets called in from threads & doesn't lock HW access, etc etc...
 [02:59:13]  <mherrb> yes, I know. Threads are far from beeing magic. Locking has to be done right for one
 [02:59:33]  <benh_^ but yeah, locking -might- be easier than vs. signal
 [03:00:13]  <benh_> you can just block the thread until the server drops the lock... so with something like a per-device lock it would probably work (in addition to the DRM lock)
 [03:00:27]  <mherrb> and there are lots of issues with differences in thread implementation among the systems that run X.Org
[03:00:37]  <benh_^ yup
 [03:00:49]  <benh_> might want do build on top of a lib that isolates it
 [03:00:55]  <benh_> there's plenty of these already
 [03:00:56]  <MrCooper^ it shouldn't affect video drivers at all compared to SIGIO
 [03:01:07]  <benh_^ depends.. it might make things easier actually
 [03:01:38]  <benh_> from the driver POV... that is
 [03:01:51]  <benh_> ability to just mutex in the cursor update...
 [03:01:53]  <MrCooper> right, I meant it shouldn't be any worse
 [03:02:00]  <benh_^ yeah... true
 [03:02:17]  <benh_> I tend to worry when people try to bring threads as a solution to a given problem :-)
 [03:02:27]  <benh_> 99% of the time, it's the beginning of a train wreck :-)
 [03:02:38]  <benh_> but in this case, replacing a signal handler, it's probably an improvement
 [03:02:45]  <mherrb> Even if I'm not a big fan of threads, I think it's good to at least experiment with such an implementation.
 [03:02:51]  <benh_> agreed
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[03:24:58]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:20:55]  <airlied> we should just update the hw cursor in the kernel :)
 [04:22:40]  <Dr_Jakob^ is the ioctl slow/laggy?
 [04:25:19]  <airlied^ nope but never going to userspace means cursor updates won't be laggy.
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[04:34:12]  <Dr_Jakob> true
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[05:04:13]  <daniels> benh_: a) of course xutils-dev isn't in build-deps, as the drivers have autoconf run already (the only sane thing to do), b) i don't really see anything wrong with their packaging
 [05:04:14]  <benh_> airlied: but you really want to track mouse movements in the kernel ? :-)
 [05:04:45]  <benh_> daniels: well, I'm always annoyed when the needed autoconf bits aren't in the deps
 [05:04:54]  <benh_> just a pita
 [05:05:12]  <benh_> also the fact that it doesn't have libpciaccess support is annoying
 [05:05:18]  <benh_> it's just me ranting of course :-)
 [05:05:31]  <benh_> oh and I had another missing dep, not sure what it was now...
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[05:05:47]  <benh_> daniels: I think fakeroot wasn't pulled by the build-dep which is somewhat lame
 [05:06:00]  <benh_> build-essential should be always pulled in :-)
 [05:06:31]  <daniels> aaronp: as i've said, i'd also like to get extremely low latency input event delivery, which will become increasingly important in the future, and is already important to some particular people ...
 [05:06:44]  <daniels> benh_: dude, pthreads abstracts threads.  why abstract pthreads?
 [05:07:30]  <daniels> er, the entire point of build-essential is that it contains stuff you don't have to b-d on.
 [05:08:25]  <benh_^ because from my experience, everybody gets pthreads slightly differently
 [05:08:44]  <benh_> it's like saying the C library abstracts the kernel ... up to a certain point :-)
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[05:08:58]  <daniels> heh
 [05:09:03]  <benh_^ but then, everybody should b-d on build-essentials :-)
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[05:11:48]  <Amaranth> benh_: again, the entire point of build-essential is it contains stuff you _know_ is installed when building so you don't have to b-d on it
 [05:11:53]  <Amaranth> :)
 [05:12:20]  <MrCooper> benh_: Build-Depends: is defined as 'anything needed and not included in build-essential'
 [05:13:12]  <benh_> I'm just being a pain :-)
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[06:40:14]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
 [06:40:55]  <JohnFlux> kdrive moves pixmaps to screen memory when they have been used a certain number of times  (KAA_PIXMAP_SCORE_MOVE_OUT - equals 10)
 [06:42:16]  <JohnFlux> it seems to move it to the, well, the screen memory which is a 2MB big frame buffer allocated by the linux frame buffer drive
 [06:42:40]  <JohnFlux> is this correct?  it seems it can't use any more memory than this
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[06:47:19]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: there's no more than 2MB of memory accessible to the accelerator?
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[06:48:12]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: there's 2MB of memory for the linux framebuffer
 [06:48:29]  <JohnFlux> the accelerator has the whole system memory it can use :)
 [06:48:31]  <MrCooper> you said that before :)
 [06:49:40]  <MrCooper> so with KAA you probably need to increase that in the framebuffer device
 [06:50:02]  <JohnFlux^ yeah I can't really - that's in the framebuffer driver :)
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[06:50:17]  <JohnFlux> and besides, it would be a fixed size :)
 [06:50:38]  <MrCooper> you can't modify the framebuffer device?
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[06:52:09]  <JohnFlux> hum, not sure.  and resize it continually?
 [06:53:51]  <MrCooper> terminology mismatch I suspect; what you call 'linux framebuffer' is called a 'framebuffer device'
 [06:56:20]  <MrCooper> but yeah, basically the amount of KAA offscreen memory is determined statically upfront
 [07:00:47]  <JohnFlux^ in EXA on xorg, the restriction isn't there, right?
 [07:01:35]  <MrCooper> the basic scheme is the same, but the driver can override it with its own CreatePixmap and IsOffscreen hooks
 [07:02:30]  <JohnFlux^ ah, i think that's basically what I want.  So I can malloc some 'special' memory for the pixmap, which the accelerator can read
 [07:02:35]  <JohnFlux> and put all the pixmaps in that
 [07:03:15]  <MrCooper> you can even do it separately for each pixmap
 [07:03:38]  <MrCooper> can the accelerator really handle scattered physical memory though?
 [07:05:02]  <JohnFlux^ yeah, it prefers it
 [07:05:20]  <JohnFlux> i mean, it has it's own MMU etc
 [07:05:43]  <JohnFlux> and just use system memory on demand.  better than wasting memory by allocating a fixed amount
 [07:05:53]  <JohnFlux> or reallocing each time
 [07:06:33]  <MrCooper> and you have an infrastructure for setting up the MMU for arbitrary userspace memory or allocating suitable memory?
 [07:07:41]  <JohnFlux^ for allocating suitable memory
 [07:08:12]  <JohnFlux> so we need to malloc the memory ourselves, but after that the pixmap can use it like normal system memory
 [07:08:12]  <MrCooper> okay, the EXA CreatePixmap hook should be feasible then
 [07:08:16]  * JohnFlux nods
 [07:12:34]  <daniels^ note that scattered physical memory != scattered physical memory, so just make sure your accelerator can deal with pages being all over the shop.
 [07:13:01]  <daniels> oh, i see.  nevermind, sorry.
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[07:54:43]  <whot> Dodji: ping
 [07:55:34]  <Dodji^ pong
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[10:58:59]  <avsharyan> heeey people ...
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[12:47:00]  <fredreichbier> Hi
 [12:47:09]  <KaneTheWolf> hello
 [12:49:23]  <fredreichbier> i am not sure whether that's the right place for the question, but I'll ask anyway ;) Is it possible to filter events (especially mouse button presses), e.g. by setting a filter function which catches some events? I found XGrabPointer, but not a method how to propagate the events after filtering.
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[12:55:31]  <ajax> Author: root <root@linux.site>
 [12:55:40]  <ajax> ladies and gentlemen, then xgi driver
 [12:57:41]  <CosmicPenguin> That root dude, he does good work
 [12:58:21]  <drago01>
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[13:27:27]  <jg_> ajax: stamp it out, root and branch
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[13:40:11]  <spstarr_work> Question, is anyone following OpenCL?
 [13:40:19]  <spstarr_work> would this be useful for Mesa?
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[14:05:06]  <glisse> spstarr_work: OpenCL is for GPGPU
 [14:05:27]  <glisse> it has no use for mesa considering mesa is opengl state tracker
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[14:19:03]  <spstarr_work> glisse: nothing to help us with programming the shaders?
 [14:19:23]  <spstarr_work> Snow Leopard further extends support for modern hardware with Open Computing Language (OpenCL), which lets any application tap into the vast gigaflops of GPU computing power previously available only to graphics applications. OpenCL is based on the C programming language and has been proposed as an open standard.
 [14:19:52]  <spstarr_work> hmm
 [14:19:52]  <glisse^ nothing to help with programming shader
 [14:20:01]  <spstarr_work> ok
 [14:20:05]  <glisse> it's just and API to run stuff on gpu
 [14:20:44]  <spstarr_work> we dont have anything planned to create a intermediate code to then split out to program shaders of different GPUs?
 [14:21:01]  <spstarr_work> I'm told Apple has a JIT for LLVM for GPUs they support
 [14:21:24]  <spstarr_work> so they can program the GPUs with the JIT for the respective GPU
 [14:21:39]  <Ori_B> that wouldnt' surprise me.
 [14:21:49]  <Ori_B> and it sounds quite a bit like what Gallium is aiming for.
 [14:21:59]  <spstarr_work> ahh so Gallium is similar to that?
 [14:22:34]  <Ori_B> nothing to do with OpenCL, but yes.. running shaders on the GPU through JIT seems to be a goal...
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[15:01:48]  <spstarr_work> sounds good to me
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[17:57:01]  <aaronp> ajax, ssp: I made a change to the nvidia driver to turn on our fakerama by default, a la RandR 1.2, and apparently that's causing this "desktop effects" thing to die with "Desktop effects do not work with Xinerama"
 [17:58:01]  <aaronp> It was reported against CentOS, but I assume it affects RHEL5 as well.  Is that something that's fixable, or will we have to try to work around it in the driver?
 [17:59:36]  <drago01^ the check has been dropped in desktop-effects 0.7.1 (which has been in fedora for a while)
 [17:59:50]  <aaronp> Ah, good.
 [18:00:13]  <aaronp> Still, it would be nice if it would work out of the box on RHEL5.
 [18:00:56]  <drago01^ ask krh to backport that change ;)
 [18:01:41]  <ssp+ That's probably actually a question for krh
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[18:06:24]  <aaronp> krh: ping
 [18:07:19]  <aaronp> Oh wait, your messages would have alerted him already... I guess that was unnecessary.
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[20:36:30]  <jg> ping keithp
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[21:03:44]  <jg> evening anholt
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[22:34:21]  <jg> ping keithp
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[23:41:39]  <murrant> is there a way to figure out which (xinerama) screen an XRRScreenChangeNotifyEvent modifies?
 ----- [2008-06-20] -----
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[03:21:11]  <benh> airlied: xgi DRI just blows my kernel up
 [03:21:18]  <benh> when it doesn't corrupt things everywhere
 [03:22:13]  <benh> it's fubar
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[03:30:07]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[03:56:01]  <rvalles> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15979
 [03:56:23]  <rvalles> xterm bug
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[04:10:17]  <CE> hi
 [04:10:43]  <CE> does anybody know why XRenderAddTraps is preferred over XRenderCompositeTrapezoids?
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[05:04:14]  <JohnFlux> morning peeps
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[06:02:20]  <JohnFlux> How do I stop kdrive trying to upload pixmaps to offscreen?  I've set screen->memory_size = screen_size;    and set screen->off_screen_base = screen_size;      but this causes it to end up with null pixmaps and segfault
 [06:03:44]  <MrCooper> it'll prevent acceleration, is that what you're trying to achieve?
 [06:04:00]  <JohnFlux> well, I want it to still use scratch
 [06:04:09]  <JohnFlux> and accelerate blits to and from onscreen memory
 [06:04:47]  <JohnFlux> i just can't work out how I can implement offscreen memory for our architecture
 [06:05:30]  <JohnFlux> so for kdrive I think I need to just disable uploading pixmaps to offscreen (i.e. video memory but not on screen)
 [06:05:39]  <JohnFlux> and just use scratch where possible
 [06:06:30]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: make sense?
 [06:06:48]  <MrCooper> maybe there's a flag you can (not) set, or try making the range slightly larger than 0 :)
 [06:07:22]  <MrCooper> but I suspect always using scratch could incur a lot of overhead
 [06:07:23]  <JohnFlux> the problem is that it's the frame buffer driver that sets up the screen memory, and it makes this size exactly the size of the screen :)
 [06:08:05]  <MrCooper> can't you increase the virtual height?
 [06:08:25]  <JohnFlux> nah, because the frame buffer sets it up that way for flipping etc
 [06:08:35]  <JohnFlux> so there's a primary surface, secondary surface etc
 [06:09:15]  <JohnFlux> but kdrive can't handle having pixmaps in a different place to the screen, afaics
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[06:09:40]  <JohnFlux> I intend to move across to xorg, but just trying to make sure it's in a working condition for kdrive
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[06:35:27]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: kdrive uploads the same pixmap to scratch over and over
 [06:35:43]  <JohnFlux> does it really need to do this?  couldn't there be a way to tell if it's already in scratch, and then not upload again
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[08:05:55]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: no, hence 'scratch'
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[11:03:36]  <fredreichbier> Hello. I've asked that yesterday, but I'll  ask it again anyway ;) How is it possible to filter button press events (e.g. a function which decides wheteher an event is propagated further)?
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[13:01:48]  * spstarr_work has a bug for Xorg people an Intel GMAX3000 with desktop effects is using 20-30% CPU when idle (viewing top and nothing else) in gnome-terminal
 [13:02:11]  <spstarr_work> the card is a Intel 82Q963/Q965 controller, GMAx3000 on a Dell box
 [13:05:04]  <ajax> keithp: fb24_32ReformatTile() makes me sad.
 [13:05:36]  <keithp^ why so sad?
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[13:11:48]  <ajax> keithp: it calls fbCreatePixmapBpp directly.  that should really be pScreen->CreatePixmap(), surely.
 [13:12:23]  <keithp^ yes, probably
 [13:12:51]  <keithp> do you have hardware running at 24bpp still?
 [13:13:17]  <ajax> it happens on vesa sometimes, though i try to avoid it really hard.
 [13:13:23]  <keithp> heh
 [13:13:35]  <keithp> vesa surely doesn't need pScreen->CreatePixmap though
 [13:14:36]  <ajax> in that it doesn't have an accel layer, sure.
 [13:15:58]  <ajax> i mean, i could write vbe/af support, for all zero cards that shipped with it...
 [13:16:29]  <keithp> yup
 [13:16:54]  <ajax> this is apropos of bug #12414.  which admittedly looks like it's a bug elsewhere too.
 [13:19:20]  <ajax> i mean, how you get a 24+32 tile on a 16-bit window is a bit mysterious.
 [13:20:19]  <ajax> 16
 [13:20:26]  <ajax> 16+32 even
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[13:23:18]  <coolray> Hi.
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[13:28:10]  <coolray> I write some hacks into Xlib device-independent code for color remapping. I modify what a client program sets into my value. Badly I have problems with what I get. I have some GTK+ programs which works perfectly with it (f.ex. rox-filer)
 [13:29:04]  <coolray> , but some have problems with icons on buttons (f.ex. firefox). Almost every Java program have problems with text backgrounds on menu.
 [13:30:04]  <coolray> The problem is how I know: secondary mapping. I designed all to map once.
 [13:30:32]  <coolray> Then If I darkner color then it's done two times.
 [13:30:55]  <coolray> However it's only for selected limited areas.
 [13:31:11]  <coolray> places* on the graphical widget.
 [13:32:16]  <coolray> I don't know what should I check in X structures which are given as pointers into them by client programs.
 [13:33:22]  <coolray> I modified GC foreground and background changing, "PutImage" and shm versions, and RenderComposite.
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[13:33:57]  <coolray> The problem had happen since I've modfied anything in RenderComposite.
 [13:34:56]  <coolray> However I haven't understand it's double color mapping that times.
 [13:36:25]  <coolray> What more... When I open some menu which appear over some text with bad background color (too dark color) then when I click again to hide menu the text gets proper color.
 [13:37:49]  <coolray> It seems there is the same problem: in painting icons (I mean glyphs, rox-filer icons have no problems) and background of label, menu or any text widget.
 [13:38:58]  <coolray> The problem is secondary use the same mapping which I put into color setter procedure.
 [13:39:48]  <coolray> Where can it be, what can it be? I have the only 4 or 5 clear places code modified by me.
 [13:41:04]  <coolray> "dix/gc.c", "dix/dispatch.c", "Xext/shm.c", "render/picture.c"
 [13:42:23]  <coolray> I'll try do comment all but one and I'll try to get which modification is responsible for this effect, but I think it will help little.
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[13:43:50]  <coolray> Because I have to check some values of X structures which are given as arguments by client program, for guarrante of first copying of colors which I want to modify, into X server library.
 [13:44:57]  <coolray> First initialization or first copying. However I want to make my X subsystem because the code of X library is very trickly and I can't look on that too long time... ;-)
 [13:45:06]  <coolray> don't want*
 [13:45:44]  <coolray> Then I try to implement one next trick and I have one problem.
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[13:58:50]  <adamw> airlied: heya - is there any support for r700 / rv770 / rv730 / m96 in radeon yet? or only in fglrx?
 [14:02:47]  <bobbens> rv770 can be patched to work
 [14:03:19]  <bobbens> adamw: http://www.phoronix.net/downloads/rv770-id.patch
 [14:03:32]  <adamw> yeah, I saw that
 [14:03:35]  <adamw> and I could do a much better patch
 [14:03:36]  <adamw> heh
 [14:03:42]  <adamw> but just checking if anything got upstreamed yet
 [14:03:52]  <adamw> thanks though
 [14:04:06]  <bobbens> someone pointed that out here the other day
 [14:04:35]  <adamw> i have a rather full list of PCI IDs for these chips if it's useful, but i dunno if dave likes to do blind patches...
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[14:40:07]  <stillunknown2> Anyone know a website that describes i2c well?
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[15:14:40]  <ajax> the i2c spec?
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[15:16:08]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/i2c-03.pdf
 [15:19:17]  <stillunknown2^ forbidden
 [15:24:04]  <jg_> ping keithp
 [15:25:37]  <keithp> jg: what news?
 [15:29:28]  <kagerato> ping jg_
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[15:40:06]  <jg_> kagerato: pong
 [15:41:23]  <jg_> keithp: you at home today?
 [15:42:26]  <coolray> Ok, I got it. I probably modified A from ARGB.
 [15:43:59]  <keithp> jg: naturally
 [15:44:58]  <ajax> pfft, stupid apache.
 [15:45:02]  <ajax> stillunknown2: try again
 [15:46:10]  <stillunknown2^ I can't open the file, it seems damaged.
 [15:46:49]  <ajax> hmm, yeah, evince is giving me blank pages.
 [15:48:20]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/i2c.pdf is an older version
 [15:48:25]  <stillunknown2^ Do you happen to know what i2c protocol the xorg i2c functions implement?
 [15:48:36]  <ajax> but the new one is freely available on nxp's website
 [15:48:42]  <ajax> it implements... i2c?
 [15:49:06]  <ajax> the slowest mode, if that's what you mean.
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[15:49:11]  <ajax> but there's not really protocols there.
 [15:49:19]  <coolray> Where do I find values for "format" of image color: ARGB/RGB or other?
 [15:50:05]  <stillunknown2> ajax: In the kernel you have a few predefined algo's, a popular one being bit banging.
 [15:50:58]  <ajax> that's all about talking to the i2c host device.  we assume that's off in the video driver somewhere.
 [15:52:06]  <stillunknown2^ Well, the only thing a driver typically provides is a way to change the clock and data lines.
 [15:52:20]  <stillunknown2> And xorg offers a byte transfer function.
 [15:52:26]  <coolray> I have PICT_TYPE_* defines, but PICTURE_FORMAT_TYPE is a macro... mind-breaking
 [15:53:00]  <ajax> stillunknown2: those are factual statements.  but it sounds like you're trying to ask a question.
 [15:53:37]  <stillunknown2> No questions besides the original question.
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[15:55:07]  <stillunknown2> The reason i'm interrested is that most kernel based drivers use a bit bang adapter, and that fails partially for me (and i have a working X driver).
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[15:58:41]  <coolray> Tell me please if I have ARGB then where is A byte? in the lowest significant byte or opposite?
 [15:59:03]  <coolray> I don't say about Render stuff which has a field for it.
 [15:59:20]  <ajax> well, you get bit masks for the color channels...
 [15:59:24]  <ajax> the alpha is what's left, no?
 [15:59:34]  <ajax> core X really doesn't have a concept of alpha though
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[16:04:35]  <coolray> Visual has the masks as fields.
 [16:05:26]  <jg_^ core X only knows about pixels (possibly indexed by a colormap), and nothing about alpha.
 [16:06:28]  <coolray> Then I assume Xlib does something with alpha. However I can't modify X driver because I use closed-source one. haha
 [16:06:45]  <ajax> no, xlib _is_ core X>
 [16:07:41]  <coolray> I've checked on working X server that Xlib use 32-bit depth mode with ARGB.
 [16:08:20]  <ajax> xlib does nothing with the alpha bits.  it just reports that that kind of visual exists.
 [16:09:04]  <coolray> Then driver it does. Yes, I know driver has option something like "EnableARGBVisuals".
 [16:10:05]  <coolray> Exactly it enable always, just this option is for enabling with Composite or something.
 [16:10:52]  <coolray> Then I'm stuck with handling 32-bit ARGB modes...
 [16:11:23]  <coolray> Really in visual structure is nothing about alpha.
 [16:11:43]  <coolray> Then why it uses that?
 [16:11:48]  <coolray> :-]
 [16:12:18]  <coolray> (because int type has >=32 bit rigth)
 [16:12:23]  <coolray> bits*
 [16:12:33]  <Ori_B> there is no way of handling ARGB without Xrender, really
 [16:13:59]  <coolray> It slowly brighter my mind. I must check where the ARGB was observed by me...
 [16:14:50]  <coolray> It's interesing I switched some of my modifications and magicaly now all is working properly.
 [16:14:53]  <coolray> hehe
 [16:15:42]  <coolray> of course but Java apps
 [16:18:08]  <coolray> For sure I won't remove my code for handling 32-bit modes anywhere because it works...
 [16:22:43]  <coolray> The Java apps (Swing or something) has the only one problem: with background of labels and icons. Backgrounds of menus and panels have proper color. If I could meet any Swing creator then I'd know all... if I pay enought. ;-)
 [16:23:38]  <coolray> And the background is switching back into proper color if I cover it. It's like switch: proper/not proper.
 [16:24:26]  <jg_> yeah, that sounds like a different colormap is getting set for that window.
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[16:26:47]  <coolray> TrueColor uses colormaps?
 [16:27:34]  <coolray> Probably if an app want to change default one.
 [16:28:33]  <coolray> Oh, another Java program works good.
 [16:31:19]  <coolray> Let's think what I can do... I tried to not touch colormaps.
 [16:31:57]  <coolray> Just this hack is for apps which aren't aware of color managament.
 [16:34:18]  <coolray> I've looked last time into colormap code and I found it's harder to understand when and by whom procedures are called.
 [16:35:25]  <coolray> There is initialization in Create color map (default color map based on visual), Update color map, and some default color maps.
 [16:36:23]  <coolray> And everything mixed with in-line memory managament which is really distractious.
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[16:42:06]  <coolray> Somethimes in the one Java app the colors of the text background in menu are restored with some crap rectangles directly dependent on what was covered/hidden last time. I think Swing menu widget maybe read back from X the color which the widget set last time then put it again.
 [16:45:33]  <coolray> Ok, I got the behaviour: Everything that is displayed first time is properly colord, second time it has changed colors. Mouse pointer over all menu items restores proper color on little count of items.
 [16:50:13]  <coolray> And if I open many submenus and next close and come back into first menu which I didn't touched some time then it is properly colored as on the start of cycle and second time inproperly and mouse pointer over restores some of item etc.
 [16:50:23]  <coolray> It's like Java uses some buffer.
 [16:52:22]  <jg_^ no, it's using colormaps....
 [16:53:00]  <coolray> And this effect...
 [16:53:22]  <coolray> I disabled anti-aliasing in Java, run Java app again and all is proper now.
 [16:53:45]  <coolray> but glypsh
 [16:53:52]  <coolray> glyphs*
 [16:54:25]  <coolray> TrueColor allows for colormaps or it has static one?
 [16:55:47]  <coolray> An other java app has no problems with coloring, but it don't try to allow user set menu font.
 [16:57:44]  <coolray> I still don't understand how it's possible: I set darker color then inproper color is more darker.
 [16:58:57]  <coolray> I test two Java apps which use GTK+ library.
 [17:00:15]  <coolray> How the second Java app could set darker color if I hack all GC foreground/background changes in Xlib?
 [17:00:40]  <coolray> (but indexed of course since it has little sense here)
 [17:02:26]  <coolray> If the 'bad' color was one of original colors (one of colors before my change of color) then I'd understand.
 [17:02:44]  <coolray> But it's more more darkner than my modification.
 [17:03:32]  <coolray> Then I don't know where is it related with colormaps...
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[17:46:39]  <wereHamster> coolray: your chances to get help will be higher if you write everything into an email and send it to xorg@fd.o. This will give you the chance to nicely formulate everything you need to say, it will make it easier for everyone to understand what you're trying to do and what your problems are.
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[17:54:20]  <coolray> Sorry for all. I solved the problem...
 [17:54:29]  <coolray> Just thinking here.
 [17:54:54]  <coolray> It was DRAWABLE_WINDOW to check.
 [17:55:27]  <coolray> The prog drew into buffer and again into window then the hack was computed two times.
 [17:56:20]  <coolray> were*
 [17:57:15]  <coolray> Just here is more faster than by e-mail...
 [17:57:53]  <coolray> For several days when they'd want to reply me I probably will foreget the problem existed.
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[18:07:06]  <coolray> By the way... the Java app which changed font of menu uses -it seems- PutImage in some form to paint menu font.
 [18:07:31]  <coolray> not GC
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[20:39:15]  <l_r> hello
 [20:39:20]  <l_r> anypne alive here?
 [20:39:52]  <l_r> it seems i cannot write to the mailing list. must i be subscribed ?
 [20:40:14]  <l_r> and i cannot find a user mailinst list
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[21:08:38]  * benh_ wonders why his ssh key isn't working on f.d.o
 [21:08:44]  <benh_> it's not supposed to be vulnerable
 [21:08:45]  <benh_> oh well
 [21:09:05]  <benh_> now if I could get the bloody pgp account interface to work, that would be great...
[21:09:18]  * benh_ grumbles about exim4 configuration
 [21:09:43]  <benh_> is it supposed to reply at all if it's not happy about a request ?
 [21:10:02]  <benh_> I'm not sure I have a pgp key attached to my account... sent a "show" request but got no reply so far
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[22:11:42]  <benh_> hrm.. must have been a dsa key
 [22:13:35]  <benh_> it's taking its sweet time changing my key
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[22:25:47]  <benh_> hrm... weird
 [22:25:59]  <benh_> it's not reacting to key changes requests... it replies to "show" but not new keys
 [22:26:07]  <benh_> which is a valid rsa key I just generated
 [22:26:48]  <airlied^ make sure the new rsa key isn't too long
 [22:26:55]  <airlied> there was some issues before with long keys
 [22:27:10]  <benh_> isn't the default 1024 ?
 [22:27:20]  <airlied^ yup that should be fine
 [22:27:45]  <benh_> does it care about the name@address bogus field at the end of the key ?
 [22:27:55]  <benh_> can't seem to get ssh-keygen to put something sensible here
 [22:28:34]  <benh_> -rw-r--r--   1 benh benh   394 2008-06-22 12:06 id_fdo_rsa.pub
 [22:28:37]  <benh_> doesn't seem too long
 [22:28:38]  <airlied^ shouldn't, if the gpg key is fine
 [22:28:53]  <benh_> pgp key is ok, I can send a "show" command to read my infos
 [22:28:54]  <benh_> that works
 [22:29:00]  <benh_> but I never get any reply to key change requests
 [22:29:04]  <airlied> but I've no idea how that stuff works :) daniels is the only one.
 [22:29:15]  <benh_> yeah
 [22:31:05]  <benh_> oh well, we'll see what he replies
 [22:31:13]  <benh_> have to go, bbl
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----- [2008-06-22] -----
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[01:01:17]  <DrNick> neat. xdpyinfo -ext all segfaults
 [01:02:15]  <DrNick> rather, aborts in free() as called (indirectly) by print_XF86VidMode_info()
 [01:05:45]  <airlied^ I think that got fixed in master.. but maybe not
 [01:10:36]  <DrNick> ah, yeah, found the bug
 [01:10:53]  <DrNick> looks like F9 has the version after the wrong fix and before the right fix
 [01:11:02]  <airlied^ oops..
 [01:11:37]  <DrNick> actually, even with that fix, non-glibc systems will blow up when you pass NULL to printf %s
 [01:11:52]  <DrNick> but that's an xdpyinfo problem, not a libXxf86vm problem
 [01:13:51]  <DrNick> I think we need a third fix which sticks individually allocated empty strings in there instead of NULL pointers
 [01:15:32]  <spstarr> that works w/ the koji packages installed manually
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[05:35:19]  <mherrb> DrNick: no we decided to keep null pointers, but fix xdpyinfo. the fix is in master.
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[07:19:54]  <l_r> is there aynone here willing to help me? it's urgente
 [07:21:26]  <l_r> i have sent an email to the mailing list with the object "How to make another local user run x clients on the local x server"
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[07:21:47]  <l_r> i had no answer so far. is there a solution to that problem?
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[08:04:48]  <mherrb> just pass him your magic cookie.
 [08:05:01]  <mherrb> xauth nextract :0 > file
 [08:05:23]  <mherrb> and the other user does xauth nmerge file
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[08:06:10]  <mherrb> see the xauth(1) man page for details.
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[13:59:11]  <eikke> can I expose my 2 xinput devices of my server as 2 separate devices in xephyr? (to test mpx)?
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[18:22:53]  <whot> eikke: yes, but the second one won't be rendered IIRC
 [18:23:59]  <whot> oh, wait a sec. you should be able to create a new master, but I don't know about the slave devices.
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[19:50:43]  <eikke> whot: creating a master works :)
 [19:51:06]  <eikke> but my host server seems to export only one device "Xephyr Virtual Pointer" (or kbd)
 [19:54:02]  <whot^ yeah, that rings a bell. should be possible to fix that though :)
 [19:54:19]  <eikke> uhu, I'll try to hack it in the next few days, could be a cool hack
 [19:54:32]  <eikke> although I'm afraid it might need host server changes as well :s
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[22:46:44]  <davimint> sorry to bug :) the developer group, but is there any place to get the tarball of libxcb-1.1.90 other than git
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[01:25:38]  <benh_> airlied: SLOF x86emu is puking on both ATIs I've tried (one is a r5xx and one an r6xx I think, I have to dbl check)
 [01:25:44]  <benh_> I'll see if I can disable it
 [01:25:52]  <benh_> the XGI stuff is just hopeless
 [01:26:00]  <benh_> and the docs are totally unuseable
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[01:31:48]  <airlied> benh_: ouch, I wonder why SLOF dies..
 [01:32:46]  <benh_^ it dies with what I think is the r600
 [01:32:56]  <benh_> it probably needs a timeout in the emulation
 [01:33:12]  <benh_> could be some old x86emu base, I'll check they have the latest fixes from x.org when they give me the source
 [01:33:20]  <benh_> on the r500, it just doesn't init it
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[01:33:30]  <benh_> airlied: gets confused by the presence of 2 functions and tries to init the wrong one
 [01:34:05]  <airlied^ it tries to init the second function.. ouch..
 [01:34:16]  <benh_> yeah, it just fails as there's no ROM there
 [01:34:20]  <benh_> that's an easy fix
 [01:34:43]  <airlied> actually getting at the ROMs on r500 can be a bit tricky.
 [01:34:48]  <airlied> they don't always just appears where you want them.
 [01:35:03]  <airlied> agd5f has some code to enable ROMs in radeon driver
 [01:36:09]  <benh_> they should just appear at power-on resret
 [01:36:15]  <benh_> it's after that they might go away
 [01:36:19]  <benh_> and need to be re-enabled
 [01:36:20]  <benh_> no ?
 [01:36:27]  <airlied^ you'd think, but I'm not sure that happens.
 [01:36:28]  <benh_> or the x86 machines would never see them from BIOS
 [01:36:33]  <airlied> yeah I don't get it actually.
 [01:37:06]  <airlied> maybe they get turned off after post then.
 [01:37:17]  <benh_> I think that's the case
 [01:37:22]  <benh_> the POST code turns them off
 [01:37:28]  <agd5f^ you can read them directly from a set of a rom index/data pair
 [01:37:48]  <benh_^ hrm.. on some cards don't you have to actually power then back up via GPIO or something similar ?
 [01:37:57]  <benh_> even before doing the index/data thing ?
 [01:38:06]  <benh_> in any case, right now, the card is in power-on-reset state
 [01:38:15]  <benh_> the ROM should be there fine, it's just SLOF that is being stupid
 [01:38:45]  <benh_> I'm hoping they'll get me the source soon so I can fix that and move forward. At least an option in nvram to disable x86emu so I can just use an ATOM parser
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[01:41:14]  <agd5f> benh_: not 100% sure, but I think you generally just have to make sure the gpios are in a known state so they don't screw around with something while you're reading the image
 [01:49:54]  <agd5f> the more I dig into it, I think you just have to set the rom sclk prescale and the rom enable bit and then you can access it from the index/data pair
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[02:01:42]  <benh_> agd5f: ok, tho you confirm that at power-on reset, the ROM should be accessible normally through PCI right ?
 [02:02:26]  <agd5f^ yeah, should be.  posting seems to disabling it generally, at least for secondary cards
 [02:03:32]  <benh_> ok, thanks
 [02:03:40]  <benh_> I'll try to figure out why that variant of x86emu pukes on it
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[03:30:33]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:52:22]  <timri> Why would XCopyArea return 1 (BadRequest) ? I cannot find it in the manpages.
 [03:54:14]  <MrCooper> the libX11 function returns that value, or the X server returns a BadRequest error?
 [03:55:54]  <timri^ The libX11 returns it. It does not stem from the X server as such (at least, nothing suspicious is showing up with _Xdebug = 1 and XSynchronize(m_xDisplay, true) )
 [03:56:31]  <MrCooper> then I'd suggest inspecting the libX11 source code
 [03:57:16]  <timri^ Yeah, I was afraid of that. Though I'd ask here first. Digging through xlib + ubuntu patches... brrrr :) thanks anyway
 [03:57:30]  <timri> s/though/thought
 [03:57:31]  <MrCooper^ did you google it?
 [03:57:56]  <timri^ Yep, and only one useful result
 [03:58:24]  <timri> http://fixunix.com/xwindows/91631-xlib-translucent-opengl-windows.html
 [04:00:14]  <timri> However, I'am just blitting a pixmap to my window. Nothing fancy at all, besides using Xft.
 [04:00:35]  <MrCooper> I'm not sure the return code is an error value at all...
 [04:01:01]  <timri^ Good point. What could it be though?
 [04:01:08]  <MrCooper> the error values in the manpage refer to X11 protocol errors
 [04:02:50]  <timri^ and... ?
 [04:03:43]  <MrCooper> and nothing :) I'm not sure what the return value is supposed to mean, just pointing out it isn't necessarily BadRequest
 [04:04:57]  <timri^ Ah, ok. Well I kinda inferred the latter from looking up "1" in X.h so you might be right.
 [04:05:22]  <MrCooper> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.gnuplot.devel/5008/match=badrequest indicates it works despite returning 1
 [04:05:33]  <maniac103> timri: 1 == True?
 [04:05:35]  <MrCooper> the speculation about buffering there is bogus btw
 [04:06:21]  <timri> maniac103: Well, it is supposed to return a Status, so 0 would be good.
 [04:06:56]  <timri> MrCooper: Yeah, that link is not very helpful. :)
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[04:07:47]  <MrCooper> timri: 'supposed to return a Status' according to what?
 [04:09:33]  <maniac103+ looking in the libX11 sources seems to suggest XCopyArea _always_ returns 1
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[04:09:50]  <timri> maniac103: Whoa!
[04:10:32]  * timri wonders why he cannot find the xlib sources for Ubuntu. sigh.
 [04:10:44]  <MrCooper> apt-get source libx11-6?
 [04:10:55]  <maniac103> timri: I looked it up in the upstream libX11, though
 [04:11:06]  <timri> MrCooper: Yeah, but I'am no sudoer and the source repos are not in sources.list
 [04:11:15]  <timri> maniac103: Ah, ok.
 [04:11:55]  <MrCooper+ changing that downstream would be madness :)
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[04:12:04]  <maniac103> MrCooper: indeed :)
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[04:12:58]  <timri> MrCooper: Removing a seed is too. Doesnt mean it doesnt happen :P
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[04:14:10]  <timri> Btw: The Ubuntu diff for libx11 alone is 148.6 kB gzipped....
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[04:27:09]  <timri> MrCooper, maniac103: You are right. XCopyArea always returns 1 and not a Status. My apologies for wasting your time.
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[04:28:27]  <MrCooper> timri: no worries, it's easy to confuse return values and protocol errors when you've never seen what happens on the latter :)
 [04:31:26]  <benh^ heya
 [04:31:36]  <MrCooper> hey benh
 [04:31:49]  <benh^ tonyb here at ozlabs is going to look at an EXA driver for some IBM GXT4500 card for which paulus did an old fb driver
 [04:32:09]  <benh> anything I should know that changed significantly in the last 6 month to 1 year about writing an EXA backend ? :-)
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[04:32:41]  <benh> MrCooper: I know you added some damage stuff but that should be mostly invisible to the driver right ?
 [04:33:03]  <MrCooper^ not really, just some added optional flexibility for the driver to handle allocation of pixmap storage
 [04:33:17]  <benh> ah ok, nothing important for us then :-)
 [04:33:21]  <MrCooper> right, that's all encapsulated in the core
 [04:33:28]  <benh> btw, is there some doco about wfb and how it helps with tiling ?
 [04:34:03]  <MrCooper> I don't know of anything besides the source code of drivers using it
 [04:34:13]  <benh> yeah that was my guess
 [04:34:16]  <benh> I'll have to dig
 [04:35:36]  <MrCooper> xf86-video-vermilion uses it e.g.
 [04:36:23]  <MrCooper> note that an EXA driver should be able to handle everything in UploadToScreen and DownloadFromScreen though
 [04:36:35]  <MrCooper> or PrepareAccess
 [04:36:56]  <MrCooper> there isn't any access to video RAM without either of these
 [04:39:21]  <MrCooper> though I guess that doesn't help for the screen pixmap...
 [04:44:33]  <benh> yes
 [04:44:56]  <benh> true... we can't force a fallback for this one
 [04:45:00]  <benh> that would be nice if we cold
 [04:45:11]  <benh> since we can -almost- completely prevent vram access
 [04:48:09]  <MrCooper> I think it would be tricky to achieve that, wfb is probably easier after all :}
 [04:51:18]  <benh> hehe
 [04:51:50]  <benh> can you have a Composite callback with all 3 pixmaps coming from the screen ?
 [04:51:55]  <benh> or at least 2 out of 3 (src/dst)
 [04:52:07]  <benh> because that cannot be handled without surface-type swappers
 [04:52:45]  <benh> the idea is that cards who can't do that always return false from PrepareAccess
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[04:53:54]  <benh> oops
 [04:54:04]  <benh> anyway, the GXT4500 works without tiling afaik
 [04:54:18]  <benh> but it can tile the front buffer
 [04:55:05]  <benh> hehe, I suppose we could make exa also have a memory pixmap alter-ego for the front buffer like any other pixmap
 [04:55:10]  <benh> one could even call it shadowfb :-)
 [04:55:22]  <MrCooper^ not sure, it might be possible for source and destination to be on the screen
 [04:55:26]  <benh> it's then purely a matter of how often you force-migrate it back to screen
 [04:56:11]  <benh> which could be done from something like a blockhandler
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[04:56:47]  <benh> scary :-)
 [04:57:57]  <benh> MrCooper: note in the src/dst case, the bit depth would be the same anyway
 [04:58:02]  <benh> so it's likely that we are lucky :-)
 [04:58:09]  <MrCooper> might be something fun to play with, though right now the screen pixmap is pinned due to being used with ModifyPixmapHeader
 [04:58:12]  <benh^ as long as the mask isn't around
 [04:58:34]  <benh> yup, not sure it's worth the pain tho
 [04:59:29]  <benh> as a matter of fact, since the front buffer has only one bit depth (obviously) its a non issue as long as there is at least one swapper :-)
 [04:59:54]  <MrCooper> right
 [04:59:56]  <benh^ it would still be interesting to look at shadowing the screen tho for other reasons
 [05:00:15]  <benh> though I would add a separate callback for the blit back
 [05:00:31]  <benh> I suppose UTS would do ... it's just that it's a nice way to do rotation
 [05:00:37]  <benh> when HW won't do it for you
 [05:01:15]  <benh> bah, doesn't matter :-0
 [05:01:27]  <benh> let's get tonyb started with solidfill and copy :-)
 [05:01:48]  <hachi> any of you guys know what ForceBIOS in the i810 driver got renamed to? I see a message from 2+ years ago saying it was obsoleted and to use the 915resolution software package
 [05:02:02]  <hachi> but then the 915 package has notes all over it saying it was supplanted by xorg now
 [05:02:17]  <hachi> no docs I can find, and nobody seems to make the connection so I can find things
 [05:02:34]  <MrCooper^ 915resolution is obsolete as well with xf86-video-intel 2.x
 [05:02:59]  <MrCooper> the driver no longer uses the BIOS for modesetting
 [05:03:12]  <hachi> well crap, then mine isn't honoring my config
 [05:04:25]  <hachi> I tell it to do 1280x768, and it happily fires up and goes 'right, 1024x768 is our mode'
 [05:05:21]  <MrCooper^ there's some useful documentation on http://www.intellinuxgraphics.org/
 [05:06:01]  <hachi> uh... thanks
 [05:06:30]  <hachi> I don't think I ever would have found that... I've just been pouring over manpages
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[05:14:05]  <MrCooper> np
 [05:16:04]  <hachi> sadly, that doesn't say anything more than you said as well :\
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[06:04:35]  <jcristau> hachi: i suspect you want Option "PreferredMode"
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[06:44:27]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
 [06:44:36]  <JohnFlux> where do I download xserver? :)
 [06:44:49]  <JohnFlux> the website seems really broken
[06:45:10]  <jcristau> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/xserver/
 [06:45:31]  <MrCooper> git clone git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/xserver
 [06:46:05]  <JohnFlux> thanks all :)
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[06:50:45]  <JohnFlux> can anyone think of a simple program that uses xrender but not composite? :)  for testing a real app
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[07:24:02]  <papillon81> any news on the synaptics git repo?
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[07:37:23]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: anything that uses anti-aliased text should qualify
 [07:37:50]  <JohnFlux^ ah good point
 [07:38:43]  <JohnFlux> where can I find the 1.4.2 release of xlibs.tar.gz ?  it used to be packaged up, but I can't seem to find it.  I'm browsing around on http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/current/src/
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[07:39:48]  <eikke> JohnFlux: lib/libX11* ?
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[07:40:18]  <jcristau> JohnFlux: 1.4.2 is a version number of xserver; and there's no xlibs.tar.gz..
 [07:41:47]  <JohnFlux^ ah okay
 [07:42:03]  <JohnFlux> eikke: oh okay, there's no single package anymore?
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[07:42:22]  <eikke> JohnFlux: dunno, afaik xlib == libX11, but I might be wrong :)
 [07:43:26]  <papillon81> i'm asking about synaptics because someone wanted to put the relicensed code into the freedesktop git to finally make it working nicely again and maintain it in a proper way
 [07:43:49]  <JohnFlux^ excellent :)
 [07:45:08]  <papillon81^ well, yes, would be excellent indeed
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[07:52:54]  <JohnFlux> with git clone git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/xserver    is it possible to check out 1.4.2   rather than head?
 [07:53:01]  <JohnFlux> I've not used git before :/
 [07:53:24]  <eikke^ git-tag -l; git-checkout (tagname)
 [07:53:28]  <jcristau> git checkout xorg-server-1.4.2
 [07:53:49]  <JohnFlux> after I do the git clone?
 [07:54:00]  <jcristau> yes
 [07:54:00]  <JohnFlux> so I do the git clone as normal, then I do the checkout?
 [07:54:08]  <JohnFlux> ah
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[09:34:45]  <JohnFlux> Hi
 [09:35:08]  <JohnFlux> I think the webserver is somewhat out of date, no?   http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/current/src/xserver/   for example links to xserver 1.2
 [09:35:25]  <ajax> almost always.
 [09:36:56]  <JohnFlux> I don't suppose I can encourage someone to fix it ? :)
 [09:37:37]  <daniels> daniels@annarchy:/srv/xorg.freedesktop.org/archive% ls -lhd current X11R7.2 X11R7.3
 [09:37:41]  <daniels> drwxr-xr-x 6 kem    xorg        4.0K 2007-02-15 14:56 X11R7.2
 [09:37:43]  <daniels> drwxr-sr-x 5 anholt freedesktop 4.0K 2007-10-01 13:40 X11R7.3
 [09:37:46]  <daniels> lrwxrwxrwx 1 kem    xorg           7 2007-03-05 07:09 current -> X11R7.2
 [09:38:13]  <daniels> now fixed, but bear in mind that /releases/current/src/xserver/ gives you the link to the server that was part of the latest stable release
 [09:38:24]  <daniels> /archive/individual/xserver/ may give you more joy
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[09:39:20]  <JohnFlux> daniels: yeah, but it's hard to wget /individual  because it has lots of versions in one place
 [09:39:32]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to grab all the tar balls that I need
 [09:40:16]  <JohnFlux> X11R7.3  release contains xserver 1.4.0  right?
 [09:40:32]  <JohnFlux> so if I want the last full release, I should get xserver 1.4.0 rather than 1.4.2  right?
 [09:40:41]  <daniels> no, no, no, really, do not get 1.4.0
 [09:40:43]  <daniels> you really want 1.4.2
 [09:41:05]  <JohnFlux> what about all the packages in X11R7.3 ?  Shall I get those versions, or the latest versions?
 [09:41:09]  <daniels> any x.y.z where z < 90 is always a stable release, with bug and security fixes only
 [09:41:10]  <JohnFlux> all the other
 [09:41:31]  <daniels> if you're really trying to build up an entire X stack from scratch, then you're probably best off going with the packages in X11R7.3 + xorg-server 1.4.2
 [09:42:14]  <JohnFlux^ okay thanks.  It's just because I'm working on a driver for kdrive and it's better to tell clients that we support and tested some particular release version
 [09:42:24]  <JohnFlux> rather than just current git :)
 [09:43:38]  <daniels> kdrive hasn't changed much from 1.4.2 to git, so that's pretty much okay.
 [09:44:22]  <JohnFlux^ thanks
 [09:46:37]  <eikke+ is trying to get MPX working in xephyr (ie export multiple xinput devices from the host as different devices to the xephyr server) possible/possible for a non-X-hacker/useful ?
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[09:58:17]  <daniels> eikke: yes/yes/yes
 [09:58:28]  <eikke> ty :)
 [09:58:53]  <eikke> then I hope I can manage to get this done before/at guadec so I can get my beer back :P:P
 [09:59:43]  <daniels> heh, unfortunately i don't think i'll be at guadec this year, but i'm sure i'll manage to find a way to tunnel beer to you at some stage
 [09:59:56]  <eikke> grin ;) too bad you won't be there
 [10:00:16]  <daniels> yeah, oh well
 [10:00:29]  <daniels> lucky for you that you will be ;)
 [10:01:01]  <eikke> decided to get into my wallet :) will be the only trip this year though :D
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[11:58:49]  <JohnFlux> would it be possible to get the patches required for cross-compiling in the main tree?
 [11:58:57]  <JohnFlux> it's a lot of work cross compiling at the moment!
 [11:59:03]  <daniels^ i'm really unhappy with the state of the patches for the libs
 [12:00:18]  <JohnFlux^ hmm
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[12:02:35]  <JohnFlux> daniels: if you have a go at fixing them to your liking, I'll be the guinee pig and test the changes, if you want? :)
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[12:03:22]  <daniels> JohnFlux: heh, you do realise i'm the maemo x maintainer at nokia, right? :P
 [12:03:54]  <daniels> i'd love to have cross-compiling running so i can get rid of #$@*}% scratchbox, but i'm not happy with any approach that involves us re-inventing automake.
 [12:06:02]  <JohnFlux^ neat :)
 [12:06:51]  <daniels> tbh i don't think we're going to get a real solution that doesn't involve the automake guys giving us something like noinst_BUILDPROGRAMS or so, that generates something built with the host compiler.
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[12:51:42]  <jg_> daniels: you could also get a Marvell box to build native on...
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[12:54:57]  <ajax> qemu-arm
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[13:15:21]  <ajax> Summary: alt-ctrl-backspace crashes server
 [13:15:24]  <ajax> you don't say.
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[13:19:25]  <stillunknown> ajax: Someone filed a bug?
 [13:20:10]  <jcristau^ #16457
 [13:21:24]  <ajax> he's correct, of course.  it shouldn't crash on the way down, it should exit cleanly.
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[14:14:40]  <daniels> jg_: um, i'm quite literally drowning in arm machines.  i think i have well over 30 in my office.  i have one at the moment (quad-core arm11, ethernet, sata) that i got last week, that is actually looking promising for native builds, but everything up until that arrived has been slower than qemu.
 [14:15:37]  <daniels> sadly this one's only arm11 rather than cortex: it's the only machine that's yet arrived with any kind of decent i/o performance, which is what was killing all my builds.
 [14:15:57]  <daniels> cortex-a8 or a9 with ethernet and sata would be enough to have me building natively, i thin.
 [14:20:25]  <jg_^ as I don't know what a cortex is, I can't comment.  I was referring to some of the Marvell Orion based NAS oriented boxes, which presumably have decent I/O.
 [14:22:03]  <mjg59^ Shockingly slow CPU, though
 [14:22:11]  <daniels+ cortex is the new arm hotness, post-arm11.  the main problem with most of the NAS boxes is that they're something like arm7 or arm9, with stupidly lightweight processing, so even if they can push I/O, pretty much all they can do is DMA really quickly.  ask them to link something, and you'll find out in a few months.
 [14:22:31]  <mjg59+ (I picked one up at the weekend)
 [14:23:00]  <daniels> you might possibly consider compiling something on a quick arm11 if you really hated yourself, but cortex is really the only usefully quick processor.
 [14:23:13]  <mjg59> beowulf cluster
 [14:23:18]  <ajax> someone needs to bolt llvm into qemu.
 [14:23:42]  <mjg59> Someone needs to bolt qemu into ndiswrapper, but that's an entirely separate car crash
 [14:23:46]  <daniels> (arm9 -> armv5 -> omap1, arm11 -> armv6 -> omap2, cortex -> armv7 -> omap3.  and omap2 is still disgracefully slow, even if you ignore i/o.)
 [14:23:52]  <jg_> mjg59: not sure we're talking about the same Marvell box, but I've not played with one myself.....
 [14:24:16]  <mjg59^ They're 400MHz or so, but you're not talking about an especially clever CPU
 [14:24:30]  <ajax> hmm.  someone did that as a gsoc project.
 [14:24:30]  <mjg59> This one's a Bufallo - it's basically the Orion dev board smashed into a small case
 [14:24:42]  <mjg59> Buffalo, even
 [14:24:59]  <jg_^ Marvell has one that is > 1ghz; I think we're talking about very different boxes.
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[14:25:46]  <daniels> google suggests the orion is arm9, which is what we shipped the 770 with (and was disgracefully unperformant even then).
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[14:26:46]  <daniels> if marvell are also breaking the ghz barrier, then that's almost certainly going to be with cortex (either a8 or a9).  i haven't seen any of the cortex-a9 mpcore stuff, but that's looking extremely promising; cortex-a9 is actually a real processor.
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[14:27:39]  <mjg59> Hey, it flashes a little light when it oopses
 [14:27:42]  <mjg59> Sweet
 [14:27:59]  <jg_> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4310177652.html
 [14:28:23]  <daniels> armv5??
 [14:28:29]  <jg_> dual core
 [14:28:30]  <jg_> yes
 [14:28:32]  <daniels> that's still omap1, which is still 770 terrotiry ...
 [14:28:47]  <daniels> it really is a pretty stupid architecture.
 [14:29:09]  <mjg59> jg_: The architecture goes up that fast, but I'm not sure any of the current nas boxes do
 [14:29:10]  <daniels> i mean, you could probably clock a 486 up to 2ghz if you were keen, but it wouldn't be great to compile on.
 [14:29:22]  <mjg59> The terrastations are 500MHz
 [14:29:32]  <jg_> Martin is clearly the person to ask if it a decent machine.
 [14:29:53]  <mjg59^ Like I said, I've got a 400MHz one
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[14:30:07]  <mjg59> It's really not all that fast :)
 [14:30:35]  <jg_^ heh.  I certainly saw one in Marvell's lab doing 1.2mhz 18 months ago; dunno what gets shipped though.
 [14:31:32]  <mjg59> media:/# cat /proc/cpuinfo
[14:31:32]  <mjg59> Processor : Feroceon rev 0 (v5l)
 [14:31:32]  <mjg59> BogoMIPS : 266.24
 [14:31:55]  <mjg59> And a whole 64k of cache
 [14:32:18]  <daniels> jg_: as i said, you could clock a 486 up to 2ghz, but it wouldn't make it fast.  likewise, clocking an armv5 up to 1.2ghz is pretty silly, tbh.
 [14:33:08]  <daniels> i'd be happy to see xserver compilation benchmarks proving me wrong, though. :)
 [14:33:47]  <jg_> The Orion chips are based on Marvell's ARM9-based "Feroceon" micro-architecture, which the company implemented itself as an ARM architecture licensee.
 [14:33:57]  <jg_> sayeth http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html
 [14:34:03]  <daniels> 21:25 < daniels> (arm9 -> armv5 -> omap1, arm11 -> armv6 -> omap2, cortex -> armv7 -> omap3.  and omap2 is still
[14:34:07]  <daniels>                  disgracefully slow, even if you ignore i/o.)
 [14:34:31]  <daniels> again, we were shipping arm9/armv5 devices back in 2005, and they were abysmally slow ...
 [14:40:19]  <anholt^ hey, it rendered a webpage... eventually.
 [14:40:50]  <daniels^ ... poorly.
 [14:40:59]  <daniels> opera ft(unmitigated)l.
 [14:41:15]  <anholt> asynchronous javascript and giving up and getting a real browser
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[14:50:18]  <eikke> is there any high-level docs/intro on kdrive architecture?
 [14:52:15]  <ajax> ddx.pdf.
 [14:52:28]  <ajax> it's just about the thinnest binding to the dix you can imagine.
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[14:55:52]  <daniels> ajax: except with some well-intentioned, but misdesigned/bitrotted crap kicking around.
 [14:56:04]  <daniels> i thought about fixing it, but failed to care and later decided to just delete it.
 [14:58:14]  <ajax> that's my favorite kind of fixing.
 [14:59:14]  <daniels^ you don't say.
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[15:01:32]  <ajax> daniels: is xkb-atkins pushed anywhere?
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[15:05:37]  <daniels> ajax: no, not yet.  been busy with unrelated stuff for a while, but i have the entirety of july off, so assuming i don't just mix and watch spooks for a month, i'll get to it thenish.
 [15:07:05]  <ajax> does that take care of merging the core and xkb event code?
 [15:09:33]  <daniels> it comes very close, but i didn't successfully get to that point.
 [15:09:45]  <daniels> there were a couple of small bugs that i just didn't have the time ot track down.
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[17:39:53]  <joruffin> I think I've found the cause of #15307. Although I can point to the cause, I'm not sure how to fix it without breakage. Anyone up for helping?
 [17:42:07]  <ajax> sure.
 [17:42:15]  <ajax> (although i have to run in ~15min or so)
 [17:44:07]  <joruffin> there's an uncheck pointer access on line 133 of xorg/mi/mipolygen.c
 [17:44:17]  <joruffin> *width++ = pAET->next->bres.minor - pAET->bres.minor;
 [17:44:37]  <joruffin> the next is never checked, and I can find no gaurantee of it's existance.
 [17:45:50]  <ajax> those should be filled in in miloadAET, no?
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[17:46:46]  <joruffin> Yes, but it just gets moved to the end of the list.
 [17:47:37]  <joruffin> What's odd is that this seems incorrect, but I would expect this to be a common problem.
 [17:47:49]  <joruffin> i.e. segfault all the time.
 [17:48:06]  <ajax> it would be if apps used the core protocol geometry
 [17:48:14]  <ajax> but usually they don't because it looks terrible
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[17:53:45]  <joruffin> would think the app in question would crash all the time then.
 [17:55:05]  <joruffin> What I think I'm seeing is that a less than one pixel poly gets passed to miFillGeneralPoly and then has all of it's edges filtered by miCreateETandAET
 [17:55:17]  <joruffin> which ignores edges with a constant y.
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[17:56:43]  <ajax> that does sound plausible.
 [17:56:43]  <joruffin> Which would then cause a complete fallthrough of miloadAET, and so there would be no AET->next to dereference.
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[17:57:12]  <joruffin> That's something I can't prove yet.
 [17:57:15]  <ajax> (gotta run)
 [17:57:23]  <ajax> i'll be around tomorrow.  thanks for looking into this!
 [17:57:36]  <joruffin> np.
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[18:57:21]  <daniels> cworth1: i hope you've attended your week-long lesson on the correct use of irssi and screen.  wouldn't want to injure yourself.
 [18:58:25]  <cworth1^ I get training tomorrow on the corporate install of Windows software on a my IT-issued laptop. It sounds enthralling.
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[19:22:52]  <daniels> benh: to answer your message from a couple of days ago -- all good now, i believe?
 [19:23:23]  <benh^ nope
 [19:23:29]  <benh> never got a reply to the key update
 [19:23:50]  <benh> should I try doing it again ? (ie, there was a problem with the server ?)
 [19:25:26]  <benh> just sent the request again
 [19:25:51]  <daniels> Jun 23 16:24:54 fruit postfix/smtp[22601]: 0CBD538058: to=<benh@pastaga.myip.net.au>, relay=gabe.freedesktop.org[131.252.210.
 [19:25:54]  <daniels> 177]:25, delay=0.27, delays=0.13/0.01/0/0.14, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 3C3959E78B)
 [19:25:58]  <daniels> you might want to try with a valid return address this time ;)
 [19:26:21]  <benh> hah
 [19:26:29]  * benh kicks postfix in the arse
 [19:26:43]  <benh> actually, it's mail acting up
 [19:27:06]  <benh> daniels: so once the key is there, I should be able to ssh to git.fdo no ?
 [19:27:56]  <daniels> indeed
 [19:28:18]  <daniels> 203) SSH keys          :  'ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEAo787V36yori2ypBsk30iQwuUrBUpGRSCU1bVP2jcecn5R8zT7o9wIAvfV5YN6jk+R9YnpTD1ggDosHOB1qdKM8x/6CVClTSdVU2N2Jxh1uiY4tz5qiTV9qojAXcS/iJUeIDXN8lIs1oQNz1RnkUsq2KpusFiODbDfngx9YQ7mlrxfsWebq45PWn/OJDwyrOdE1VBjfpWTP0epNTJ7toKiY0h/uPNwJHLpCFAxXoge5Q1I1xpXCFGpFiJ4hdaTZkOIhONRrlZvyFSMjCvoLu8RJAspMYwg2NyYizVF+5QLxSQzmDINJih4kvDmn99aHRdrgc4zZELxRnbsIPe71HNEw== benh@pasglop'
 [19:28:21]  <benh> yeah
 [19:28:22]  <benh> works
 [19:28:26]  <benh> my bad
 [19:29:12]  <benh> sorry for the noise :-)
 [19:29:18]  * benh goes kick mail harder
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[19:31:28]  <daniels> heh.  np.
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[20:33:22]  <benh> airlied: ping
 [20:35:03]  <benh> I have bimini with an ATI X1650 Pro properly inited by x86emu
 [20:35:25]  <benh> time to play with the driver... should I still pull your home dir branch ?
 [20:39:11]  <airlied^ yuup.
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[20:43:08]  <benh> airlied: allright, let's have fun :-)
 [20:43:18]  <jcristau+ could you have a look at bug#16060? it looks like there's a bug in the glint pciaccess conversion
 [20:43:36]  <benh+ users/airlied/xf86-video-ati
[20:43:45]  <benh> does it need some DRM bits too or would work standalone ?
 [20:44:03]  <airlied^ it should work standalone, though it might need a new drm to build against.
 [20:44:11]  <benh> wait
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[20:44:14]  <benh> last commit 20 month ago
 [20:44:17]  <benh> that must not be the right onw
 [20:45:05]  <airlied^ branch atom-be
 [20:45:47]  <benh> ah yes
 [20:45:48]  <benh> got it
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[20:52:15]  <benh> airlied: what was your latest status ?
 [20:52:28]  <benh> still inverted clocks ? from running an atom script or from the driver reading values of a structure ?
 [20:52:31]  <airlied^ I was running the asic init.
 [20:52:37]  <airlied> and getting the wrong clock at the wrong moment.
 [20:52:42]  <benh> ok
 [20:52:48]  <benh> I can try without the ASIC init then
 [20:52:52]  <benh> since I have x86emu working
 [20:52:53]  <airlied> the inputs to asic init is two clocks.
 [20:52:56]  <benh> and look at that next
 [20:53:04]  <airlied> and when it got down through the code it was the wrong one at the wrong time.
 [20:53:07]  <benh> ok so it's the driver passing the wrong ones
 [20:53:18]  <benh> or the ASIC init getting the args in the wrong order ?
 [20:53:28]  <airlied^ or the asic init stack handling doing something wrong
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[20:53:32]  <benh> ok
 [20:53:33]  <airlied> the values are 32-bit
 [20:54:02]  <benh> argh
 [20:54:04]  <benh> bitfields
 [20:54:26]  <airlied> I fixed most of the bitfields for endianness I think
 [20:54:34]  <airlied> I fixed one and reverted it though.. so not sure..
 [20:54:52]  <benh> yeah, I'm trying to figure out what's up with the reverted one
 [20:54:56]  <benh> might hide a deeper problem
 [20:55:17]  <airlied^ its most likely something in the heart of CD_Operations.c or Decoder.c
 [20:55:24]  <benh> yup
 [20:55:50]  <airlied> I was just going step by step run, fix, reboot :)
 [20:55:56]  <benh> hehe
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[20:57:36]  <benh> btw, we have doc on the atom stuff ?
 [20:57:41]  <benh> other than that code ?
 [20:57:55]  <airlied> nope that is it all really.
 [20:58:00]  <benh> I'd like to replace those bitfields completely
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[20:58:03]  <benh> use masks & shifts instead
 [20:58:09]  <benh> but that may not be worth it right now
 [20:58:14]  <airlied> the problem is getting future updates from AMD.
 [20:58:18]  <airlied> we need to merge them easily.
 [20:58:20]  <airlied> for now at least.
 [20:58:37]  <airlied> the further we diverge the more hassle it is to add new cards later.
 [20:58:47]  <benh> well, there aren't many bitfields fortunatleyu
 [20:59:26]  <benh> ATOM_FIRMWARE_CAPABILITY is on its way out
 [21:00:09]  <benh> MODE_MISC_INFO too
 [21:00:17]  <benh> I wonder if somebody at ATI/AMD figured out that bitfields suck :-)
 [21:00:35]  <benh> they are turning it into a non-bitfield variant already
 [21:01:22]  <benh> in fact, most have tihs "access" variant
 [21:07:04]  <benh> hrm
 [21:07:12]  <benh> do you endian swap or just shuffled the bitfields ?
 [21:07:20]  <airlied> just shuffled them
 [21:07:24]  <benh> hrm
 [21:07:27]  <benh> I think that may be the problem
 [21:07:35]  <airlied> oh didn't think about that :)
 [21:07:42]  <benh> the flip fields don't remove the need to also swap the bytes
 [21:08:17]  <benh> well, you do swap in some places
 [21:08:30]  <benh> damn
 [21:08:39]  <benh> gotta love code with 300 col wide lines
 [21:09:55]  <benh> which makes it very hard to just deref the struct
 [21:10:12]  <benh> unless you never have fields overlapping two bytes
 [21:10:16]  <benh> in which case you can be a sneak
 [21:10:20]  <benh> and just shuffle the fields
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[21:20:42]  <benh> airlied: btw, before I try it, will it try to ATOM-init the card or not ?
 [21:20:49]  <benh> (ie, will it detect it's already up ?)
 [21:21:36]  <airlied^ it shouldn't try to I don't think anymore.
 [21:22:09]  <benh> ok
 [21:22:25]  <benh> I've hacked some horrible hack for the endian stuff of the TableAttributes struct
 [21:22:29]  <benh> let's see how it behaves :-)
 [21:22:47]  <benh> flipping the fields might be a workable alternate option if we know we aren't using a field crossing a byte boundary
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[21:23:54]  <benh> ah, segv :-) I must have done something wrong
 [21:24:08]  <benh> crap
 [21:24:10]  <benh> it's attempting to POST
 [21:24:38]  <benh> hrm, some ERROR port id is 0
 [21:27:12]  <benh> I suppose I should put it in an  x86 and compare the logs
 [21:29:23]  <benh> bah, debugging that is a pain
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[21:31:21]  <airlied> benh: yeah thats the last thing I did.
 [21:31:28]  <airlied> stuck the board into x86 with added debugging.
 [21:31:31]  <airlied> and then diffed.
 [21:33:13]  <benh> yup, I'm going to do that
 [21:33:27]  <benh> annoying I don't have 2 boards :-)
 [21:33:43]  <airlied^ neither did I, at least no the same enough to be useful
 [21:34:12]  <benh> yeah
 [21:39:03]  <benh> hrm, rhdAtomGetFbBaseAndSize() is failing
 [21:39:37]  <benh> it's hitting the warning, which means that GET_FW_FB_SIZE returns ATOM_SUCCESS
 [21:39:41]  <benh> but then data.val == 0
 [21:39:56]  <benh> now, I wonder... could it be that those values aren't hard wired in the BIOS ROM
 [21:40:02]  <benh> but supposed to be written at POST time ?
 [21:40:19]  <benh> ie, I don't have a copy of the self-modified memory image after POST
 [21:40:25]  <benh> maybe I should get SLOF to pass that to me
 [21:40:33]  <benh> so I can scan things from there :-)
 [21:51:38]  <benh> hrm, if I whack that stuff, I get a segv in dac detect
 [21:51:40]  <benh> hrm
 [21:51:42]  * benh debugs
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[22:03:14]  <benh> the PARAMETER_ACCESS stuff comes from the tables ?
 [22:03:16]  <benh> ie, needs swapping too ?
 [22:03:49]  <airlied> parametrs are sent in from the cpu side.
 [22:04:02]  <airlied> the question of what endianness the parameter stack needs to be is open.
 [22:04:40]  <airlied> I'm not sure if the opcodes for atom really care about endianness
 [22:05:40]  <benh> yeah, there's some inconsistencies there
 [22:05:53]  <benh> I think I'll hand decode some instructions to see what it really looks like :-)
 [22:06:09]  <benh> ok, good, doesn't crash anymore
 [22:06:19]  <benh> doesn't actually work but heh, that's progress
 [22:06:28]  <benh> I mean, not the POST, the parser doesn't pass crap values
 [22:06:34]  <benh> some parameters needed swap
 [22:06:50]  <benh> the current reg block for example was wrong I think
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[23:25:49]  <benh> airlied: hrm... parameter handling is a nightmare
 [23:25:58]  <benh> I'm going to single step with gdb to see if I can figure it out
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[23:49:58]  <benh> airlied: allright, I pulled some logs of an x86 box of the full POST to
 [23:50:00]  <benh> too
 [23:50:04]  <benh> airlied: I'll compare now
 ----- [2008-06-24] -----
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[00:31:39]  <benh> airlied: bloody hell
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[00:31:50]  <benh> airlied: could they have invented something more fucked up and convoluted ?
 [00:32:07]  <benh> I'm not quite getting my head around the command format, I think I need a drink !
 [00:32:25]  <benh> doesn't help that there are casts all over the place
 [00:39:12]  <airlied^ can you see where it diverges from the x86 trace?
 [00:39:26]  <benh> I'm single stepping with lots of breakpoints :-)
 [00:39:33]  <benh> takes a while, I'll let you know
 [00:39:41]  <benh> I already fixed what I think are a couple of endian bugs
 [00:39:48]  <benh> but there must be something still wrong
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[00:41:51]  <benh> airlied: it starts diverging quickly
 [00:42:42]  <benh> byte and dword OUTREG look ok but word sized ones seem to get the reg index wrong or something like that
 [00:42:46]  <benh> trying to figure it out
 [00:45:56]  <benh> airlied: it smells bad to me
 [00:45:58]  <benh> it's a total mess
 [00:46:17]  <benh> things are all over the place, between tables of tables with tables and tables and other crap on stack, allocated vs. in ROM
 [00:46:22]  <benh> and some need swapping and some not
 [00:46:27]  <benh> I'm not sure I can untangle it
 [00:46:42]  <benh> i looks like somebody ran a competition on who could write the most obfuscated way of doing that stuff
 [00:46:46]  <benh> and ATI hired the winner
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[00:51:43]  <airlied> yeah the trying to decide what to swap was getting to me.
 [00:51:49]  <airlied> it not always easy to know where stuff was coming from
 [00:51:52]  <benh> it's insane
 [00:52:00]  <benh> inside CD_Operations, it's totally insane
 [00:52:21]  <benh> I've spent a few hours on it already and I still feel like I don't quite understand what it's doing
 [00:52:25]  <benh> and it's not even a lot of code
 [00:52:32]  <benh> I think they deserve a medal for such an achievement
 [00:52:42]  <benh> it beats some obfuscated C contest winners
 [00:58:03]  <benh> ok, found another one
 [01:01:31]  <benh> airlied: getting better
 [01:03:03]  <benh> ok, I have it starting to diverge much later
 [01:03:09]  <benh> after an INREG / OUTREG pair, so RMW
 [01:03:18]  <benh> must be something wrong with manipulating the value
 [01:04:09]  <benh> wait... nah, could just be that the initial value is differnet
 [01:04:17]  <benh> x86 had the BIOS POSTing it
 [01:04:23]  <benh> hrm... here too
 [01:06:36]  <benh> ok, so I read different things but I always write the same thing so far
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[03:24:30]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[08:34:58]  <Sanjay> Hi, can anyone tell me that how do I change Window height & width which is already created?
 [08:37:04]  <Sanjay> I am creating Window with some default width & height, but the when I am getting the Image it is of different size.
 [08:37:53]  <Sanjay> please someone help...
 [08:38:58]  <saschahl^ there is XResizeWindow
 [08:40:06]  <Sanjay^ I tried that but it is not resizing internal window
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[08:40:39]  <Sanjay> means i can see two borders one at older another at newer dimensions
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[08:41:05]  <saschahl> so it's not updating the content of the window?
 [08:41:26]  <Sanjay> yes, looks like...
 [08:42:03]  <saschahl> that's task for the client that created the window
 [08:43:10]  <Sanjay^ here I am the client, the thing is I created window with default height & width, but when I get the Image I want to update the geometry.
 [08:44:15]  <Sanjay> I also tried XConfigureWindow, but it doesn't create any effect.
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[08:46:51]  <Sanjay> saschahl: please help me...
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[08:51:38]  <Sanjay> saschahl: I got the solution. Thanks for the help... Have a good day.
 [08:53:00]  <benh> pfiew, I though he was dying
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[10:33:15]  <JohnFlux> xserver/configure   dies if X11/defs.ent can't be found because it's cross compiling
 [10:33:32]  <JohnFlux> wouldn't it be better to just assume no rather than dieing?
 [10:38:32]  <jcristau^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/util/macros/commit/?id=e20c503d24e5ccf03035aa0f6d833d235d2179df
 [10:39:06]  <JohnFlux^ ah cool :)
 [10:39:54]  <JohnFlux> I've spent 2 days trying to cross compile X :(
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[12:49:00]  <ajax> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15399
 [12:49:03]  <ajax> best EDID ever.
 [12:49:31]  <jcristau> yeah, that one looks nice
 [12:49:57]  <Dr_Jakob> haha
 [12:50:12]  <ajax> what's amazing to me is we don't carp about the checksum being wrong.
 [12:51:32]  <mjg59^ The fs aren't there to make the checksum add up by some freak chance?
 [12:53:18]  <ajax> the first eight bytes are required to be like that, that's the defined header.
 [12:53:27]  <mjg59> Ah
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[13:51:00]  <maniac103> ajax: got a minute?
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[13:53:11]  <dagb> mjg59: your powersaving patch works for me. (See comment in blog.)  Any idea if you will be able to reduce/elliminate the flicker?
 [13:54:27]  <ajax> maniac103: maybe.  what about?
 [13:55:39]  <maniac103^ is there any reason why the intel driver in F9 advertises GLX_ext_texture_from_pixmap in direct rendering context?
 [13:56:20]  <drago01^ DRI2 ?
 [13:56:54]  <maniac103^ not enabled in xorg.conf
 [13:57:01]  <drago01> ok
 [13:57:03]  <ajax> if it advertises it and it works, that's intentional.  otherwise it's just a bug ;)
 [13:57:19]  <ajax> libgl seems incapable of getting this consistently right.
 [13:57:23]  <maniac103^ it advertises it and shows only whiteness ;)
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[13:59:43]  <mjg59> dagb: Excellent
 [13:59:59]  <mjg59> Hm. The flicker you describe sounds unrelated. Sure that's not something that was there before? :)
 [14:00:51]  <dagb> I wasn't testing with twm prior to this, so I'll check again.
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[14:09:28]  <dagb> mjg59: the flicker I see is only present with your patch applied.
 [14:11:10]  <mjg59^ Interesting.
 [14:11:31]  <dagb> The "jump" appears to be in the vertical axis only.
 [14:11:50]  <dagb> I.e. downwards.
 [14:12:35]  <mjg59^ In i830_display.c, can you try changing fp2 = (((clock.n+2)*2)-2) << 16 | clock.m1 << 8 | clock.m2; to fp2 = (clock.n+1) << 16 | clock.m1 << 8 | clock.m2; ?
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[14:15:35]  <dagb> mjg59: looks good. Do I need to recheck the powersavings?
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[14:20:37]  <mjg59> dagb: Yeah, they'll probably be lower
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[14:20:58]  <mjg59> dagb: Try bumping up the clock.n+foo until it displays the problem
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[14:26:42]  <mjg59> dagb: If you could add ErrorF("Clock %d\n",clock.n); after it as well and let me know what (a) clock.n is set to, and (b) what the maximum value you can add to it before you see screen flicker is, that would be handy
 [14:29:49]  <dagb^ I'll give it a shot. Getting a new baseline now.
 [14:30:31]  <mjg59^ Thanks
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[14:42:06]  <Turmlos> ajax: Did you miss this? http://sturmartillerie.org/linux/1.5-remove-xorgconfig.patch
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[14:44:54]  <ajax> i didn't think i did.
 [14:45:35]  <ajax> boo.  i distinctly remember cutting that section of configure.ac
 [14:45:55]  <Turmlos> Heh.
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[14:46:19]  <ajax> applied, thanks.
 [14:46:43]  <Turmlos> No problem.
 [14:51:21]  <dagb> mjg59: just to verify: does that ErrorF above do what you intend it to do?
 [14:52:09]  <mjg59^ It should dump the value of clock.n into Xorg.log
 [14:54:43]  <dagb^ mmkay. clock.n+2 or clock.n+3 provides the same output to log. We're printing clock.n, but the code doesn't really modify clock.n, does it?
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[14:55:49]  * dagb admits to having comletely corroded C skills. Whatever skills there ever was.
 [14:55:59]  <Turmlos> ajax: Now I think you're missing '||' in line 79 of hw/xfree86/x86emu/x86emu/types.h
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[14:56:09]  <mjg59> dagb: Yeah, that's fine. I'm interested in the original value.
 [14:56:36]  <dagb> ok.
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[14:58:21]  <Turmlos> ajax: Err, line 78.
 [15:07:55]  <dagb> mjg59: clock.n+4 "jumps", clock.n+3 does not (I think I saw it jump *once*, but couldn't provoke it.) The ErrorF prints 2,3,2,2,2. clock.n+3 saves me .3W
 [15:10:22]  <mjg59^ Ok, thanks
 [15:10:49]  <mjg59> Wonder if we have any way of working out what the lowest refresh a screen supports is...
 [15:11:15]  <dagb^ specifications?   :-)
 [15:11:47]  <mjg59> Heh
 [15:11:58]  <dagb> is that the problem here, you think?
 [15:12:12]  <mjg59> Yeah
 [15:12:18]  <mjg59> By the sounds of it
 [15:12:20]  <mjg59> This is 945?
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[15:12:39]  <dagb> mjg59: yes
 [15:13:27]  <dagb> R500 with the transflexive display. Which saves crazy amounts of power if you can make use of it.
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[15:35:52]  <anderco> ajax: I was looking at the evdev input driver log and wondering why this commit:
 [15:35:56]  <anderco> Ignore button events above BTN_TASK for now.
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[15:37:22]  <ajax> above that they stop being like mouse buttons and start being like joystick or gamepad buttons.
 [15:37:39]  <ajax> and i didn't finish working through how we should present that to the xinput extension.
 [15:38:12]  <anderco^ I have a user complaing that his mouse stopped reporting some cruise control buttons using evdev driver
 [15:38:17]  <anderco> maybe that is related
 [15:38:53]  <ajax> could be.
 [15:39:51]  <ajax> would be interesting to see what his mouse device looks like in /proc/bus/input/devices
 [15:40:10]  <ajax> the KEY= line should have bits set for all the button events it can generate
 [15:42:33]  <stillunknown> Is it reasonable that git merging "misses something"?
 [15:42:50]  <stillunknown> (by that i mean, does it happen or am i most likely doing something wrong)
 [15:43:42]  <stillunknown> (i'm seeing stuff removed from the master branch still present after pulling the changes)
 [15:47:49]  <ajax> git won't delete a deleted directory unless it's empty
 [15:48:04]  <ajax> so if you ever built something in it, it'll still be there...
 [15:48:54]  <anderco^ I don't have the output right now, but it is a Logitech MX1000. After googling around I believe it should look something like this:
 [15:48:57]  <anderco> B: KEY=ffff0000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 [15:49:00]  <stillunknown> ajax: I mean a file.
 [15:49:22]  <stillunknown> With a few lines in it that were changed in master and therefore supposed to be gone after merging.
 [15:49:28]  <pedroerp> anybody knows if all pci access in xserver pass throught libpciaccess?
 [15:51:37]  <ajax^ config space access and map creation happens with pciaccess, yes.  once you've got the memory map it's all just normal mmio though.
 [15:52:27]  <stillunknown^ So is it common for git to miss stuff when merging?
 [15:53:27]  <DrNick^ if the changes you pulled don't conflict with changes you've made to your working tree, you'll get that result
 [15:54:14]  <stillunknown^ So a removal from master doesn't imply it'll get removed from my branch?
 [15:54:32]  <stillunknown> (removal being a few lines of code)
 [15:54:48]  <DrNick> if you've changed that file in other ways, afaik, yes
 [15:54:56]  <DrNick> but #git would be the better place to ask
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[15:58:04]  <pedroerp> ajax: but after it, all drivers use pciaccess to write on pci bus?
 [15:59:00]  <ajax^ drivers use it to get an mmap() of the device's registers.  but they don't use anything in libpciaccess to actually _touch_ those registers; they just use *register = some_value;
 [16:03:15]  <pedroerp^ mmMMmm... thanks!
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[16:33:28]  <eikke> 9719354ae04a41e9834ac9ba8fd9e895092ba4f1 breaks xserver build
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[16:37:15]  <eikke> http://key.nicolast.be/files/patches/xorg/xserver/0001-Fix-build-issue-introduced-in-9719354ae04a41e9834ac9.patch
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[16:39:32]  <eikke> havent got a public repo, sorry :)
 [16:40:26]  <jcristau> fixed.
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[16:40:37]  <eikke> :)
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[17:07:14]  <stillunknown> is setting vtSema always the job of the driver?
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[17:14:42]  <dberkholz> ajax: have you cherrypicked b622f6dc5d8d70d17be0374a85a9b16b43a62a01 (fix kdrive minux xv) to 1.5 branch? i didn't spot it..
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[17:15:28]  * eikke still trying to figure out how kdrive/ephyr is structured
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[17:16:38]  <vignatti> since when Xorg is linked with pthreads?
 [17:16:59]  <dberkholz> since glx-tls?
 [17:17:17]  <dberkholz> (guess)
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[17:19:56]  <vignatti> dberkholz: yeah, probably. It's what I'm seeing in configure.ac
 [17:20:35]  <libv> any sitewranglers around who have a bit of time; there's an 11d old account request waiting: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16341
 [17:21:38]  <jcristau> dberkholz: i'm not sure i understand why that means Xorg needs -lpthread though
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[17:27:28]  <dberkholz> jcristau: so aiglx can load tls-using dri drivers
 [17:28:29]  <dberkholz> bug #1822 has some description of the whole tls thing
 [17:35:04]  <jcristau^ you can't load a tls-using shared object if you're not linked with libpthread?
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[17:39:00]  <dberkholz> jcristau: take a look at glx/glapi.c
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[17:39:43]  <dberkholz> looking at the tls vs not differences might help more than what i could say
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[17:41:53]  <jcristau> dberkholz: yeah ok
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[17:42:01]  <jcristau> dberkholz: thanks
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[18:51:30]  <vignatti> shit, seems that git doesn't preserve the history if the file is moved to other dir
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[18:55:08]  <DrNick> vignatti: git log --follow
 [18:55:52]  <DrNick> probably need a -M or -C in there, too
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[19:07:09]  <cjb> vignatti: git mv a/foo b/foo
 [19:07:29]  <vignatti> DrNick: sweet dude
 [19:07:46]  <DrNick> cjb: that doesn't do what you think it does
 [19:07:52]  <vignatti+ tkx Chris, --follow is enough
[19:08:02]  <cjb> DrNick: ooh?
 [19:08:45]  <DrNick^ it basically does a regular rename and then updates the index
 [19:08:55]  <DrNick> git doesn't track the histories of individual files
 [19:10:46]  <cjb^ so the history will be lost afterwards?
 [19:10:50]  <jg> ping keithp
 [19:11:02]  <DrNick> the history isn't stored in the first place :)
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[19:11:51]  <cjb> I'll take that as a cue to stop talking, I think :)
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[19:14:44]  <DrNick> remember, each git commit is the current state of the tree and a pointer to the parent commit(s)
 [19:15:26]  <eikke> a friend of mine pointed me at http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/git.from.bottom.up.php recently, which is worth a read
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[19:21:43]  <eikke> can only one application read an evdev device node?
 [19:24:19]  <cjb^ it depends.  applications can perform a grab ioctl on it, which stops further opens.
 [19:24:25]  <cjb> X does this.
 [19:24:50]  <cjb> so if you want to get access, you can open it in userspace before X starts, and not perform the grab ioctl, and then both of you should have access
 [19:24:57]  <eikke> hmh, so I cant assign a mouse to xephyr when my parent X server does HAL discovery
 [19:25:22]  <cjb> not sure about that.
 [19:26:52]  <eikke> hmh
 [19:27:02]  <eikke> so far so good mpx'ing xephyr :D
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[19:29:47]  <cjb> :)
 [19:30:01]  <cjb> my kingdom for an ubuntu X build with mpx turned on.
 [19:30:54]  <jcristau> i suppose i could do a debian one. but then all the pain is in rebuilding the drivers every time.
 [19:32:06]  * eikke runs git once in a while using his brand new build script :p
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[19:34:16]  <eikke> http://key.nicolast.be/files/fdo-build.sh.txt
 [19:35:09]  <eikke> i know its clumsy sometimes
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[20:21:47]  <whot> cjb: i think bryce is working on one
 [20:23:21]  <cjb^ yes, I think so too
 [20:23:29]  <cjb> might be a while, though
 [20:25:08]  <whot^ he mentioned "a couple of weeks", may be 1.5 dependent too
 [20:25:16]  <cjb> cool.
 [20:25:43]  <airlied> whot: we should put it into rawhide :)
 [20:26:01]  <whot^ doesn't rawhide have irregular git x server versions anyway?
 [20:26:45]  <cjb^ even better, I think it has regular git x server versions :)
 [20:27:24]  <airlied+ it stagnates when myself or ajax stop looking :)
 [20:28:55]  <whot> hehe. thought so.
 [20:33:23]  <whot> question to the room: can you guys gdb the xserver from startup on?
 [20:33:38]  <whot> or -to be more precise - if gdb hangs in the popen to xkbcomp, what am I doing wrong?
 [20:36:28]  <vignatti^ my little experience tells that it's always better attach gdb to X server process
 [20:36:39]  <vignatti> but my problems are usually related with threads
 [20:36:48]  <jcristau> whot: you haven't killed the need for xkbcomp yet :)
 [20:37:33]  <whot> vignatti: that only works if you are not trying to debug xkb startup
 [20:38:01]  <whot> or try to create master devices while you're attached with gdb
 [20:38:20]  <airlied^ xkb sucks . it breaks gdb badly.
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[20:38:33]  <whot> jcristau: it seems to be dropping to the end of my todo list. for no reason whatsoever ;)
 [20:38:53]  <airlied^ I blame daniels :)
 [20:39:06]  <whot^ that's always a valid option :)
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[21:51:30]  <jg> ping keithp
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[22:07:56]  <jbarnes> agd5f: would it be too perverse to add a fake output to attach the powerstep stuff to? :)
 [22:21:51]  <gravity> Did the on-list discussion for doing improved docs on the wiki amount to anything?
 [22:22:24]  <gravity> I was thinking about documenting the server internals a bit better, although in sgml rather than directly on the wiki, but I don't want to duplicate other people's work
 [22:23:56]  <gravity> s/sgml/xml/
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[22:34:05]  <benh> airlied: got a preference on how to fix that param stack issue ?
 [22:34:25]  <benh> ie, shuffling struct fields or requiring callers to write args as LE in the fields ?
 [22:34:44]  <benh> I'm almost tempted by the later to avoid having too touch the struct defs too much
 [22:34:48]  <benh> enough with the bitfields already
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[22:36:44]  <benh> btw, where are ATI docs nowadays ?
 [22:37:03]  <benh> is there anything for R5xx ?
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[22:38:29]  <alanc> I think they're hidden several levels down on AMD's site, or at http://www.x.org/docs/AMD/
 [22:38:32]  <benh> more specifically an X1650
 [22:38:42]  <benh> thx
 [22:39:06]  <alanc> http://developer.amd.com/documentation/guides/Pages/default.aspx seems to be the official AMD link
 [22:39:14]  <benh> so the closest thing to a R5xx reg ref is the M56 one right ?
 [22:40:00]  <alanc> looks like it - AMD's site describes it as "M56 - This document contains register information for AMD R5xx series processors (x1300, x1400, x1600, x1900 series chips)."
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[22:42:39]  <benh> hrm
 [22:42:40]  <benh> concerning
 [22:42:45]  <benh> I don't see an equivalent of SURFACE_CNTL
 [22:42:48]  <benh> no endian swapper ?
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[22:42:51]  <benh> agd5f: ping
 [22:44:15]  <benh> in fact, no surfaces for tiling etc.. I wonder if the doc is complete
 [22:44:20]  <benh> or if the regs are just still the same
 [22:46:11]  <ajax> probably the same.  tiling definitely happens on r500.
 [22:49:08]  <jg> ping keithp
 [22:49:53]  <keithp^ peng
 [22:51:02]  <jg^ here's the question: if you had to go to a lower bit depth to get better power savings on a flat panel (in grayscale), how would you choose the intensity values of the displayed graylevels to maximize text readability?
 [22:51:03]  <gravity> Damn, the xorg-docs build system sucks. Must fix.
 [22:51:24]  <benh> ajax: yeah... none of the surface control reg is mentioned in any of the r5xx or r6xx new docos tho
 [22:51:28]  <keithp> jg: I can't imagine anything better than a fairly plain gamma ramp
 [22:52:03]  <benh> oh well, we'll see if I finally coerce AtomBios into working
 [22:52:04]  <keithp> jg: you're looking for linear response in the viewer, which means an exponential curve of brightness values
 [22:52:06]  <benh> which is getting there ...
 [22:52:08]  <jg> ok, what values would you choose for 2 bits, 3 bits and 4 bits?  (the power is related to the number of bits you preserve, it turns out).
 [22:52:28]  <keithp^ I'd just use the sRGB gamma tables
 [22:52:39]  <jg> pointer?
 [22:52:46]  <ajax> no, array.
 [22:52:48]  <ajax> (ha!)
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[22:53:35]  <keithp> jg: wikipedia has a reasonable sRGB article with the function
 [22:53:50]  <keithp> this has the benefit of also making images appear reasonable without any correction
 [22:54:01]  <gravity> ajax: That's probably the cheesiest thing I've ever heard you say
 [22:54:13]  <keithp^ he's not even drunk
 [22:54:31]  <gravity> Slacking then!
 [22:55:29]  <jg> keithp: in any case, definitely not a naive linear ramp.....
 [22:55:31]  <ajax> if that's the worst joke you've heard me make then clearly we need to hang out more.
 [22:55:46]  <gravity> word
 [22:56:02]  <keithp> jg: yes, a na07ve linear ramp for an sRGB monitor
 [22:56:22]  <keithp> most LVDS panels expose a 2.2-ish gamma ramp
 [22:56:26]  <jg> the point is, not linear in straight intensity...
 [22:56:34]  <jg> but linear in gamma space.
 [22:57:09]  <keithp^ right, which is what we've always done :-)
 [22:57:53]  <keithp> it's kinda cool that linear voltage to a CRT works out to a linear perceptual response in the human eye
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[22:58:22]  <jg> dunno if that is true for LCD or not; not familiar enough with how it works.
 [22:58:27]  <keithp^ LCDs fake it
 [22:58:43]  <jg> yeah, and MLJ is as good as they come in LCD design.
 [22:59:03]  <jg> fun to get to have such discussions with such a person....
 [22:59:12]  <keithp^ The LCD response is quite non-linear -- looks a bit like pÖ
 [22:59:18]  <jg> do you think 2 bits will be "enough"?
 [22:59:27]  <keithp^ better than nothing
 [22:59:34]  <keithp> it's what the old next box used
 [22:59:34]  <jg> that was my reaction.
 [22:59:49]  <keithp> you can easily simulate it on the screen by hacking up cairo
 [23:00:04]  <keithp> or freetype (which is probably a better plan)
 [23:00:24]  <jg> yeah.  That's an idea.
 [23:01:29]  <jg> the power is related to the number of bits, it turns out.
 [23:01:35]  <keithp> of course it is
 [23:01:42]  <jg> 2 is alot fewer bits than the 6 you usually get out of an LCD.
 [23:02:15]  <keithp> I assume you're not using LVDS already -- that's no power delight
 [23:02:35]  <jg> no, we'll have other ways than LVDS to talk to the panel.
 [23:02:46]  <jg> LVDS is a power disaster.
 [23:03:07]  <keithp> LVDS is getting replaced with DP at some point, but I'm not sure that's a net power win
 [23:03:20]  <jg> our cables are short in Gen-1 and shorter in gen2.
 [23:03:26]  <keithp> oh, btw, we're doing dynamic clocking on the LVDS now -- mjg59 wrote up some code
 [23:03:38]  <jg> cool.
 [23:03:39]  <keithp> when the server is idle, we just crank the clock rate down to about half
 [23:03:47]  <keithp> saves all kinds of power
 [23:04:04]  <jg> yup.
 [23:04:10]  <jg> need to get that integrated sometime.
 [23:04:14]  <jg> is it checked in?
 [23:04:21]  <keithp> no, mjg59 is still playing
 [23:04:36]  <keithp> it's at 'credible demo' stage
 [23:04:49]  <jg> sounds like that should subsume the work Ajax was doing with us last summer.
 [23:04:54]  <keithp> in austin, we did the 'would this work at all' test
 [23:05:06]  <cjb^ I'm trying to work out what a "linearly perceptual" response means :)
 [23:05:09]  <keithp> You'd need to be able to switch the PLL at vblank time
 [23:05:09]  <jg> when we are idle more than a few frame times, we should move to using the dcon.
 [23:05:13]  <jg> yup.
 [23:05:18]  <keithp> cjb: it's well defined in CIE
 [23:05:29]  <jg> when deepak gets a chance, I'll ask him to work on the driver again on that.
 [23:05:48]  <jg> last I knew, ajax was suffering in Linux driver hell, and deepak is much better at that.
 [23:05:53]  <keithp^ yeah, we have frame buffer compression that helps us tell when things are idle
 [23:06:23]  <jg> the geode does too, but we're even better off turning off video entirely.
 [23:06:43]  <jg> and it would waste display memory badly on our system.
 [23:07:03]  <jg> the compression stuff on geode requires power of 2 alighnment.
 [23:07:53]  <jg> keithp: actually, the geode is nice about switching the PLL.
 [23:08:01]  <keithp> good.
 [23:08:07]  <jg> it will do the vsync synchronization on its own,
 [23:08:15]  <jg> they double buffered the registers.
 [23:08:26]  <jg> so we can set it and forget it, if I remember correctly.
 [23:08:38]  <cjb^ for increasing readability at lower bit depths, don't you just want *anything* that increases contrast?
 [23:08:43]  <keithp> yeah, intel does the same, except that the pll lock time is so long that we actually have two plls to flip between
 [23:08:51]  <jg> but after a few frame times, we should get video off entirely.
 [23:08:56]  <cjb> (a gamma ramp is a fine thing to do that, but seems like just about anything would work.)
 [23:08:57]  <jg> ouch.
 [23:09:48]  <jg> keithp: my memory is we tried messing with the frame rate manually, and there was no visible glitches.
 [23:10:14]  <jg> cjb: want to avoid jaggies; so we want AA to do some work.
 [23:10:15]  <keithp> cool. well, it's a fairly good power savings on LVDS; assume you'd save some power as well
 [23:10:19]  <ajax> with the frame rate, that was true.
 [23:10:44]  <ajax> though i never did get around to measuring the power delta
 [23:10:56]  <jg> keithp: yeah, I don't remember the exact number getting video off will be, but it was at least .5 watt.
 [23:11:14]  <jg> for us, that's a serious number.
 [23:11:23]  <keithp^ that's similar to LVDS
 [23:11:23]  <cjb> wow, that's much larger than I thought.
 [23:11:40]  <keithp^ driving a serial link at hundreds of MHz is expensive
 [23:11:41]  <cjb> where's that coming from?  the video hardware and the memory bandwidth from sending frames to DCON all the time?
 [23:11:51]  <jg> yup.
 [23:12:05]  <jg> video drivers and memory bandwidth.
 [23:12:33]  <jg> cjb: let's get this release out the door, so we can go back to more fun work ;-).
 [23:13:08]  <jg> or a parallel link at 10's of mhz.
 [23:13:40]  <cjb> cool.
 [23:13:59]  <cjb> so if I sit at the sugar home screen, leave the CPU on, and switch to DCON mode, I should see a .5W saving?
 [23:14:06]  <jg^ the compression buffer stuff can help on the memory bandwidth power usage, but in our case, we have a dcon and are better off just not driving the display at all.
 [23:14:08]  <cjb> (sounds like an easy test.)
 [23:14:14]  <cjb> yup.
 [23:14:20]  <jg^ yeah, if you get the right bits set.
 [23:14:40]  <jg> the Video unit itself needs power down from a register; there is no automatic clock gating on that functional unit.
 [23:16:11]  <cjb> righto.
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[23:16:36]  <jg> cjb: lowest power mode should be dcon at 25hz; video unit in geode off.
 [23:16:55]  <jg> note that will drop the dcon power consumption lots.
 [23:16:58]  <benh> agd5f: still not around ? :-)
 [23:18:09]  <benh> airlied: so, flip the structs or the field content ? :-)
 [23:18:15]  <ajax> did anyone ever get the dcon transition flicker-free?
 [23:18:37]  <jg^ events of late last summer intervened.  We'll have to get that fixed.
 [23:19:13]  <jg> deepak joined us a week or two ago; once he's got some critical bugs out of the way, I'll ask him to look at it.
 [23:19:37]  <cjb+ Put another way, I don't think we've had an X hacker as competent as you around since then.  We need to do more hiring.  :)
 [23:19:46]  <jg> heh.
 [23:19:50]  <jg> been trying...
 [23:20:17]  <ajax> i think the conclusion i reached was that the silicon was broken and nothing short of software genlock or blue wires would make it work.
 [23:20:23]  <jg> ajax was having trouble with the linux driver resynchronization end.
 [23:20:30]  <jg> ajax: you might be right.
 [23:20:31]  <airlied> benh: change the input contentes I think
 [23:20:42]  <jg> But we didn't get to the bottom of that at the time.
 [23:20:56]  <jg> it's a delicate dance to get right.
 [23:21:24]  <benh> airlied: yeah, that way we don't have to touch the structs
 [23:21:34]  <benh> easier to update from future ATI drops
 [23:22:30]  <ajax> the sync signal i was getting from dcon was in vertical back porch when it needed to be in vertical sync.  all i know is i saw that on the scope and got very angry.
 [23:22:44]  <ajax> i'd be happy to be wrong though.
 [23:23:16]  <cjb> (clarity:  Bernie did an awesome job as our X hacker considering he wasn't one when he started, and all as a volunteer, too.)
 [23:25:43]  <jg> ajax: yeah, but there is a register you can tweak to off set that, IIRC.
 [23:26:10]  <cjb^ a per-scanline interrupt or something?
 [23:26:26]  <cjb> or rather a given-scanline interrupt
 [23:26:50]  <jg^ no, there is a register to offset the time when things happen. but it's too long since i read the spec.
 [23:26:55]  <jg> ajax might be right.
 [23:27:06]  <jg> we'll have to reinvestigate.
 [23:27:07]  <cjb> I think we concluded he was right at the time :)
 [23:27:13]  <cjb> but worth another look.
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[23:30:15]  <jg> cjb, ajax, keithp: good night....
 [23:35:47]  <jg> cjb: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:DCON_Specification,_V0.8.odt has a description of the dance expected to be necessary to resynchronize the dcon.
 [23:45:17]  <cjb^ It says:
 [23:45:19]  <cjb> >  The chip will wait until the trailing edge of the input VSync pin occurs, indicating the start of a new display frame.  The DCON will then record the contents of the next video frame to the attached frame buffer.
 [23:45:33]  <cjb> And ajax says he saw that load start at v_backporch, not v_sync.
 [23:51:01]  <ajax> that's not the transition that was the problem.
 [23:51:14]  <ajax> that's transition from gpu to dcon, which worked fine.
 [23:51:40]  <ajax> coming back out was the problem.  the spec says the sync pulse should be from start of vfp to end of vsync.
 [23:51:57]  <ajax> what i actually saw was a pulse exactly over vbp.
 [23:52:22]  <cjb> oh, yes.
 [23:52:55]  <ajax> which means not just exactly too late, but also as useless as possible.  if only it were from start of vbp to the end of the next vactive ;)
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----- [2008-06-25] -----
 [00:02:23]  <benh> airlied: the mix of bitfields & words in structures with endianness crap is becoming nightmarish
 [00:02:34]  <benh> somebody at ATI needs to be shot ... twice
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[00:14:22]  <benh> airlied: in atombios_output_ddia_setup()
 [00:14:30]  <benh> we don't fill the usEncoderID field
 [00:14:42]  <benh> of the DVO_ENCODER_CONTROL params
 [00:14:45]  <benh> is that normal ?
 [00:16:15]  <airlied> not sure agd5f wrote that.. it may not be used internally.
 [00:16:57]  <airlied> or we just haven't gotten to seeing a c ard that needs it
 [00:17:04]  <benh> heh
 [00:28:08]  <benh> airlied: hoy !
 [00:28:11]  <benh> X up :-)
 [00:28:23]  <benh> still need to compare logs, there might be something wrong somewhere as I get a very noisy output
 [00:28:26]  <benh> on analog
 [00:28:36]  <benh> but I get the gray screen & cursor moving :-)
 [00:31:47]  <benh> got gnome up :-)
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[00:33:50]  <benh> airlied: an interesting thing that I noticed with the XGI driver too
 [00:33:58]  <benh> in FC9, the menus
 [00:34:15]  <benh> when "selected", the test becomes white on slightly-darker background
 [00:34:21]  <benh> which makes it pretty unreadable
 [00:34:39]  <benh> I wonder if it's an endian bug or something similar, though maybe in pixman or X itself or some gnome lib
 [00:34:52]  <benh> but I don't have an x86 with fc9 to compare wiht
[00:35:20]  <agd5f^ ddia doesn't use encoderid IIRC
 [00:36:47]  <benh^ ok
 [00:36:54]  <benh> so I have it working on the ppc box
 [00:37:01]  <benh> still have to compare logs etc...
 [00:37:01]  <agd5f> cool :)
 [00:37:09]  <benh^ VGA is noisy and DVI doesn't seem to work
 [00:37:23]  <agd5f^ what card?
 [00:37:49]  <benh^ X1650
 [00:37:57]  <benh> I'm pretty sure it works on X86 :-)
 [00:38:08]  <benh> I must have something wrong in one of my endian fixes
 [00:38:18]  <benh> I've added craploads of logging to the Atom interpreter
 [00:38:28]  <benh> so I can trace precisely what it's doing and compare with an x86
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[00:40:35]  <benh> hrm
 [00:40:37]  <benh> it worked once :-)
 [00:40:40]  <benh> now I get signal out of range
 [00:40:43]  <benh> need to compare more traces
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[00:44:58]  <airlied> benh: once is a good start :)
 [00:45:19]  <benh^ yeah :-)
 [00:45:33]  <benh> will do more comparison now, need to kick mpe out of his x86 for a while
 [00:45:38]  <benh> to get fresh traces
 [00:45:43]  <benh> but it's looking good
 [00:45:55]  <benh> also R500 has all the 2D engine stuff etc.. working right ?
 [00:46:03]  <benh> endian looked good, so I suppose surfaces are ok
 [00:46:10]  <airlied^ should be same as r300 as well
 [00:46:16]  <benh^ leaves that glitch with menus which I -suppose- could be some unrelated bug
 [00:46:45]  <benh> do we have 3D on R5xx using the R300 stuff yet ?
 [00:46:49]  <airlied^ it might be pixman or one of the composite ops in radeno
 [00:46:51]  <airlied> radeon
 [00:47:01]  <airlied> but if XGI does it sounds like pixman or fb stuff
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[00:47:26]  <benh> airlied: same problem with XGI
 [00:47:33]  <benh> I'll try with NoAccel, but I'd blame pixman
 [00:47:39]  <benh> yeah
 [00:47:53]  <benh> going to be a bitch to debug
 [00:49:17]  <agd5f^ yeah 3D works on r5xx
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[00:51:20]  <benh> cool
 [00:51:39]  <benh> I'm trying to dig us & terrasoft out of the shit we got into with XGI
 [00:51:49]  <airlied> using r500s would be nice :)
 [00:52:03]  <airlied> if AMD still sells em :)
 [01:03:26]  <benh> they can still be found
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[01:38:44]  <agd5f> benh: also, ddia is only found on RS690 IGP chips, so you shouldn't see it on anything else
 [01:39:19]  <benh> what is it ?
 [01:40:52]  <agd5f> basically TMDS over pcie
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[01:41:09]  <benh> DVO or TMDS ?
 [01:41:11]  <benh> actual TMDS ?
 [01:41:13]  <benh> heh
 [01:41:20]  <benh> that sounds weird
 [01:41:35]  <agd5f> actual tmds, muxed over pcie lines
 [01:41:43]  <benh> ok
 [01:41:53]  <benh> people do crazy things these days :-)
 [01:42:12]  <agd5f> kind of like sdvo, but with the logic on-chip
 [01:42:50]  <benh> yeah
 [01:42:59]  <benh> how much does it hit PEX bandwidth ?
 [01:43:03]  <benh> or just replaces an endpoint ?
 [01:43:37]  <agd5f> steals some of the lanes, variable based on bw
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[01:45:16]  <agd5f> IIRC, 4 for single link, 8 for duallink
 [02:01:12]  <benh> ok
 [02:01:14]  <benh> interesting
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[03:10:56]  <cb2> hello there... anyone know where can I get information related to TTM?
 [03:11:51]  <cb2> last time there is pdf version from tungsten website call mm.pdf, but seems now the link is not valid anymore
 [03:13:14]  <airlied^ what type of info?
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[03:14:11]  <cb2> the architecture of the TTM...
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[03:14:32]  <cb2> any idea where can I get it?
 [03:14:46]  <airlied> the pdf didn't really have a huge amount in it from memory.
 [03:14:55]  <airlied> it was more the reasons behind why ttm was needed.
 [03:18:15]  <cb2> ok... I see... but it still useful for me, you know where can I get the pdf.
[03:19:19]  <airlied> mail someone from tungsten maybe.. or ask MrCooper..
 [03:19:29]  <cb2> ok
 [03:19:34]  <cb2> thanks...
 [03:20:36]  <MrCooper> isn't there something on the DRI wiki?
 [03:21:20]  <cb2> yup... but if I'm not mistaken it still point to the tungsten link.
 [03:21:27]  <cb2> let me double check
 [03:21:39]  <MrCooper> if not, Thomas Hellstr0 m <thomas (at) tungstengraphics (dot) com> is the man
 [03:24:12]  <cb2> ok I will mail mail him then.. thanks for the info
 [03:26:59]  <MrCooper> np
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[03:27:26]  <MrCooper> you could also CC the dri-devel list just in case
 [03:28:29]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:08:57]  <benh> yay
 [04:09:03]  <benh> fixed
 [04:09:09]  <benh> AtomBios now seem to fully work on BE :-)
 [04:09:17]  <benh> now we need to clean up my hacks :-)
 [04:09:29]  <benh> man, that was painful
 [04:09:41]  <benh> looks like there will be some drinking involved tonight
 [04:13:26]  * glisse tend une biere a benh
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[04:16:35]  <benh> glou !
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[04:19:11]  <airlied> hehe.. it works here on the G5 as well..
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[05:50:40]  <benh> airlied: tried on the g5 yet ?
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[06:13:24]  <airlied> benh: yup it brought it up.
 [06:13:30]  <airlied> dodgy colors on login
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[06:13:37]  <airlied> and my X server is busted so I've no keyboard :)
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[06:16:43]  <airlied> but it gets to gdm at least.. I'll see what else I can play with tomorrow..
 [06:16:59]  <airlied> I need to update my Fedora install to get new bits first
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[06:28:05]  <benh> airlied: busted colors ? weird
 [06:28:11]  <benh> colors were fine on the bimini
 [06:28:35]  <benh> I haven't looked at the rest of the driver, how it does the swapper stuff etc... maybe there's an issue
 [06:28:40]  <benh> what card ? r5xx ?
 [06:29:16]  <benh> also I wasn't using the DRM, maybe there's something wrong there
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[06:29:34]  <benh> ie. host data blit broken swapper kind of thing
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[06:47:40]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to compile X, and I'm getting the error:  ../include/miscstruct.h:54:20: error: pixman.h: No such file or directory
 [06:48:05]  <benh^ install pixmap dev package
 [06:48:10]  <benh> pixman
 [06:48:13]  <benh> sorry
 [06:48:22]  <jcristau> should have failed in configure though if you don't have it
 [06:48:31]  <JohnFlux> i'm cross compiling
 [06:48:38]  <benh> heh, so configure is useless
 [06:48:46]  <benh> so yeah, you need libpixman and headers
 [06:48:59]  <JohnFlux> thanks
 [06:49:13]  <daniels> yeah, pkg-config needs proper cross-compilation support
 [06:49:31]  <daniels> someone buy me a flight to oslo and i'll sit down with tollef and bludgeon him and/or drink until all this just works.
 [06:49:49]  <JohnFlux> what requires libpixman?
 [06:49:55]  <JohnFlux> i mean, can I just disable whatever requires it?
 [06:49:59]  <benh^ X :-)
 [06:50:08]  <JohnFlux> rats :-)
 [06:50:08]  <benh> I doubt it
 [06:50:23]  <JohnFlux> is this a fairly new dependancy?  I had a 2004 version of X working
 [06:50:27]  <jcristau> yes
 [06:50:28]  <benh> JohnFlux: the fb render stuff uses it nowadays instead of its own impl, I don't think we still have our own in X
 [06:50:33]  <benh> yes, it's new
 [06:50:36]  <JohnFlux> ah
 [06:50:47]  <jcristau> from xserver 1.4
 [06:50:49]  <benh> the low level rendering code is now shared between X and cairo
 [06:51:03]  <benh> and thus moved to that lib
 [06:51:20]  <JohnFlux> like the xrender stuff?
 [06:51:26]  <benh> yup
 [06:51:26]  <JohnFlux> alpha compositing etc
 [06:51:34]  <JohnFlux> ah
 [06:51:36]  <benh> maybe more, I haven't looked :-)
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[06:54:46]  <daniels> all software rasterisation is done with pixman now, basically
 [06:56:13]  <Dr_Jakob^ still no announce of XDS2008?
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[06:56:59]  <benh> daniels: which reminds me I suspect one or two endian bugs still lurking around in there
 [06:57:07]  <benh> need to track them down
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[06:59:15]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: no, sorry.  long story but still trying to get it absolutely utterly 100% confirmed before i announce.  almost definitely sep 3rd-5th, edinburgh zoo, though.
 [06:59:26]  <daniels> hoping to find out for sure this week.
 [06:59:41]  <JohnFlux^ for kdrive, I don't need pixmap, right?
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[07:00:41]  <daniels> JohnFlux: er, yeah, you do if you ever want it to draw anything at all on the screen.
 [07:00:41]  <jcristau+ it's pixman, and you need it
 [07:00:45]  <daniels> if that's optional, you can ignore pixman.
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[07:01:19]  <daniels> it's the same code as used to be in xserver/fb/, but is now in as eparate library so cairo can use it too
 [07:01:19]  <eikke^ is there a way to disable hotplugging for specific devices?
 [07:01:32]  <JohnFlux+ and kdrive used to use xserver/fb  ?
 [07:01:41]  <jcristau^ yes
 [07:01:42]  <JohnFlux> daniels: i'm unclear on how much code kdrive and xorg share :)
 [07:01:44]  <JohnFlux> okay thanks
[07:01:47]  <eikke> daniels: looks like I cant expose a device to xephyr when it already works in my host server, since evdev is locked
 [07:01:49]  <Dr_Jakob+ ok thanks.
 [07:01:57]  <daniels> eikke: why would you use evdev?
 [07:02:16]  <daniels> xephyr now doesn't open /dev/input/mice, it just gets the events from the host server and relays them on, which is presumably what you should also do for multiple cursors ...
 [07:02:24]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: sorry about this, i'm not thrilled about it either
 [07:02:28]  <eikke> it can do both, right?
 [07:02:54]  <daniels^ i don't think evdev support even works at the moment; it's very recent, in either case.
 [07:03:02]  <eikke> ok
 [07:03:08]  <daniels> all the original code was all about getting events from the host server, whichi s about the only thing that makes any sense.
 [07:03:13]  <JohnFlux> what's XDS?  Google returns a lot of korean webpages ;_)
 [07:03:24]  <eikke^ X Developer Summit iirc
 [07:03:34]  <JohnFlux> cool - can I come? :)
 [07:03:35]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: if someone else was less busy, we would've had an announce two weeks ago.  if i was less shit, we would've had an announce, probably three weeks ago, i guess.
 [07:03:40]  <daniels> JohnFlux: please do
 [07:04:05]  <JohnFlux> in the UK?
 [07:04:12]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: hehe its okay, just wondering what happend to the annouce.
 [07:04:18]  <daniels> JohnFlux: edinburgh, scotland (airport EDI)
 [07:04:35]  <JohnFlux> yeah, not too far from me
 [07:04:54]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [07:04:58]  <Dr_Jakob^ looking forward to seeing you then :-)
 [07:05:01]  <JohnFlux> although I'll have a 2 week old baby at that time
 [07:05:08]  <JohnFlux> not sure my misses will let me out
 [07:05:09]  <JohnFlux> ;_0
 [07:05:47]  <daniels^ ah, you're in KL?
 [07:05:54]  <JohnFlux^ yeah
 [07:05:59]  <daniels> nice one
 [07:06:05]  <JohnFlux> if by that you mean kings langley
 [07:06:09]  <daniels> yep
 [07:06:21]  <daniels> the sprawling metropolis
 [07:06:40]  <JohnFlux> it's the middle of nowhere
 [07:07:09]  <daniels> yeah, i've been there.  made the mistake of calling a taxi to take me from the station, about 250m down the road ...
 [07:07:24]  <Dr_Jakob> Haha
 [07:07:28]  <daniels> then ended up sitting in that rubbish greasy spoon across the road for an hour.
 [07:07:30]  <JohnFlux> haha, yeah you can see the building from the station
 [07:07:46]  <JohnFlux> run by a daughter and mom
 [07:07:48]  <daniels> yeah, i realised that when the taxi driver just started laughing at me (after a 15min wait).
 [07:08:11]  <JohnFlux^ where do you work again?
 [07:08:14]  <JohnFlux> nokia?
 [07:08:24]  <daniels> ah, i just saw a man and a woman there.  they were just talking about who'd died in the village.  it was pretty depressing.
 [07:08:29]  <daniels> JohnFlux: that's the one, yeah.
 [07:08:46]  <Dr_Jakob^ You said something about moveing?
 [07:08:58]  <daniels^ yeah, i'm moving back to melbourne in october
 [07:09:03]  <JohnFlux^ nokia seems to come up a lot.  you've just bought trolltech, and symbian
 [07:09:12]  <daniels^ i noticed ;)
 [07:09:28]  <Dr_Jakob^ nice, changeing jobs or are they opening up a office there?
 [07:09:50]  <daniels^ haven't worked out all the details yet, but it's sort of neither
 [07:10:08]  <Dr_Jakob> ahum okay.
 [07:10:08]  <JohnFlux> heh
 [07:10:32]  <daniels> god i'm hungry.  ->
 [07:10:59]  <JohnFlux> it was donut day today.  now i'm on a sugar high
 [07:12:04]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: are you in the main Nokia office or are you deported to Karaporti?
 [07:13:43]  <daniels> JohnFlux: damn, if only.
 [07:14:36]  <JohnFlux^ our company is hiring if you want a different job ? :-D
 [07:14:43]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: neither, i'm in ruoholahti (in helsinki proper, about a 10min drive from the centre, and also about a 10min drive from nokia house/hq/keilalahti)
 [07:14:58]  <daniels> JohnFlux: heh, thanks, but unless you're hiring for melbourne ...
 [07:15:16]  <Dr_Jakob^ okay.
 [07:15:24]  <daniels> (likewise, we're always hiring x/linux people.)
 [07:15:59]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: http://research.nokia.com/centers/ruoholahti/index.html
 [07:16:34]  <JohnFlux^ will you pay more than I'm being paid now? :) If so, I'll move.. :)
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[07:19:12]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ok, thanks
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[07:31:53]  <JohnFlux> show pixman be added to:   http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/X11R7.3/src/
 [07:32:04]  <JohnFlux>    http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/X11R7.3/src/lib  in particular
 [07:32:17]  <JohnFlux> it's in the /individual/ branch
 [07:32:46]  <JohnFlux> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/lib/pixman-0.11.4.tar.bz2  specifically
 [07:32:57]  <JohnFlux> it seems to make sense that it should be in the releases subdir as well
 [07:34:23]  <daniels> good point, though i think it was still 0.9.0 or something back then
 [07:34:46]  <JohnFlux> can I use 0.11.4  with the 7.3 release?
 [07:34:53]  <JohnFlux> or should I get 0.9 to be safe?
 [07:35:43]  <jcristau^ you probably want 0.10
 [07:36:19]  <jcristau> 0.11.x has a nasty memory leak
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[09:43:10]  <JohnFlux> hmm pixman requires gtk
 [09:43:21]  <JohnFlux> or at least the composite-test does
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[09:44:48]  <daniels> yeah, disable the tests
 [09:45:42]  <JohnFlux^ yeah, just trying to decide whether to, or whether to compile the tests too :)
 [09:46:18]  <JohnFlux> does it test the compositing via X?  i.e. can I use the test programs to check that my acceleration code is written correctly?
 [09:49:07]  <daniels> no, it just tests them via pixman
 [09:49:10]  <daniels> to test X, use rendercheck
 [09:50:51]  <JohnFlux^ thanks
 [09:50:56]  <agd5f> or the cairo test suite
 [09:51:10]  <PauloZanoni> in Xorg 1.4.0.9 (don't know about newer versions), if I specify multiple video cards on my xorg.conf but don't specify their drivers, X will only open one screen. If I specify their drivers, X will open all the screens. Is this the correct behaviour or is it a bug?
 [09:51:29]  <daniels> i think autodetection only works in the single-card case
 [09:52:06]  <PauloZanoni> any specific reason for that?
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[09:52:46]  <PauloZanoni> well... X -configure dects everything correctly
 [09:52:50]  <daniels> the config code is complete and utter shit.
 [09:52:53]  <PauloZanoni> detects*
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[09:56:19]  <glisse> CGA/EGA here is the future :)
 [09:57:27]  <daniels> jg: fwiw, the marvell feroceon chips in NASes appear to be arm9e (arm926ej-s/armv5tej), which is the _exact_ same core as the 770, which is dog-slow.
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[10:03:42]  <ajax> glisse: i mean, really.  hercules?  who are these people?
 [10:04:03]  <daniels^ at least people owned hercules at some stage in computing history, unlike, say, i128.
 [10:04:13]  <mjg59> ajax owns all i128s ever made
 [10:04:26]  <daniels> i mean, there'd surely be vastly more deployed hercules units today than i128 and 3ga combined.
 [10:04:41]  <ajax> you don't want to know the kinds of places i128 ended up.
 [10:04:43]  <mjg59> daniels: Yeah, but our 3ga support is total.
 [10:04:46]  <mjg59> Erm.
 [10:05:11]  <ajax> although if ebay is any indication, they're getting phased out of medical imaging installations, so that's hope for the future.
 [10:05:56]  <JohnFlux> daniels: it seems I can't disable tests :-D
 [10:06:17]  <JohnFlux> http://lwn.net/Articles/285442/   this says that --disable-gtk  was added to pixman 0.11.2
 [10:06:29]  <daniels^ pixman 0.11.6 was released around an hour ago with a fix for the memory leak
 [10:06:36]  <JohnFlux> ah awesome
 [10:07:06]  <daniels> mjg59: total ... totally non-existent? totally proportionate to userbase?
 [10:07:15]  <mjg59^ Both work
 [10:07:25]  <ajax> i actually have a 3ga powered up.
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[10:07:46]  <mjg59> ajax: Bad man
 [10:08:05]  <daniels+ and you can in good conscience ridicule people asking about mga?
 [10:08:09]  <daniels> s/mga/hercules/
 [10:08:26]  <ajax> it's sufficiently ancient that the typical BIOS hack of banging at the font table to get text-mode graphics completely confuses the thing.
 [10:09:10]  <ajax> daniels: i don't run X on it.  it's just an emergency console for my build box.
 [10:09:22]  <daniels^ dude, do you want a real video card?
 [10:10:09]  <ajax> i've got plenty, thank you.  but it's nice to have them not already installed in a machine you don't reboot.
 [10:10:25]  <ajax> think about it: hardware you don't want to test stays in machines you don't test on.
 [10:10:49]  <ajax> whereas the piles of radeons typically need to be swapped around to repro bugs and whatnot.
 [10:11:22]  <glisse> marcheu: you should stop working on nouveau and start working on some serious hw like hercules :o)
 [10:11:42]  <mjg59^ You realise we have *no* support (binary or otherwise) for the 3D core in 3GA?
 [10:12:00]  <marcheu+ I have a hercules, but it's a very long card, and it doesn't fit on any of the ISA mobos I have
 [10:12:08]  <glisse> mjg59: how on earth such things is possible ?
 [10:12:13]  <marcheu^ mostly because of condos on the mobo
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[10:13:04]  <marcheu> the resolution is pretty nice for its age though
 [10:13:10]  <mjg59> glisse: Vista doesn't either, so there's an opportunity for us to provide a competative advantage here
 [10:13:50]  <marcheu> 720x348 !
 [10:14:01]  <daniels> glisse: you have seen the 3ga, right?
 [10:14:14]  <daniels> according to its marketing material, it's significantly faster than the s3 968!
 [10:14:41]  <glisse^ that sounds like the technology of the century
 [10:15:23]  <mjg59> The 19th century
 [10:15:30]  <glisse> i am working on evolution and this sounds like somethings that could take over all other gpu species
 [10:16:06]  <glisse> evolution is a painfull process, sometimes :)
 [10:16:08]  <daniels> it's kind of like vhs.  it's vastly technically inferior to the alternatives, but the main difference is that no-one uses it.
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[11:36:05]  <JohnFlux> the xserver configure doesn't seem to have generated an xserver/include/config.h   file
 [11:36:15]  <JohnFlux> anyone know why this might be?
 [11:36:22]  <daniels^ it doesn't generate include/config.h ... what problem are you trying to solve?
 [11:36:39]  <JohnFlux^ it used to, no?
 [11:36:40]  <daniels> the dix uses include/dix-config.h, xorg uses include/xorg-config.h, and kdrive uses include/kdrive-config.h
 [11:36:51]  <JohnFlux^ oh
 [11:36:55]  <daniels> i'm not overly sure why include/xkb-config.h exists, but i rather wish it doesn't
 [11:37:02]  <JohnFlux> at the moment I try to include config.h, which doesn't exist
 [11:37:03]  <daniels^ different ddx'es need different options, so we had to split them up
 [11:37:09]  <JohnFlux> I'm moving from a 2004 version of kdrive
 [11:37:12]  <JohnFlux> ah, makes sense
 [11:37:16]  <daniels> right, use kdrive-config.h if you're under hw/kdrive/
 [11:37:23]  <daniels> (backed by HAVE_KDRIVE_CONFIG_H)
 [11:38:02]  <JohnFlux> thanks
 [11:38:10]  <daniels> np
 [11:42:22]  <JohnFlux^ btw, -DHAVE_CONFIG  is still set in xserver/configure
 [11:42:37]  <JohnFlux> just incase that's an oversight
 [11:43:25]  <daniels> yeah, there's nothing we can do about that -- autoconf bug.
 [11:43:40]  <JohnFlux> heh
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[11:50:38]  <ajax> aaronp: so i'm still wibbling on the devprivate abi thing.
 [11:51:05]  <ajax> how much does nvidia_drv care?
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[11:53:49]  <JohnFlux> in kdrive.h,  offscreenByteAlign was renamed to offsetAlign   and offscreenPitch to pitchAlign  without any meaning change right?
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[12:12:56]  <ssp> ajax: Guofu says that he can log in, but has no home directory
 [12:13:13]  <ssp> on people.fd.o
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[12:29:17]  <daniels> ssp: yeah, MkHomeDir is broken
 [12:29:27]  <daniels> JohnFlux: afaik, yes
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[12:50:50]  <libv> daniels: since you're wrangling, is there anything missing from this account request... or is this purely a time issue? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16341
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[13:01:36]  <arekm> libv: sysadmin guys have big backlog afaik (at least bugs I know aren't processed)
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[13:02:07]  <vignatti> cjb: AFAIK vga driver is dead given that there's no ISA support anymore in the server -- about you mail in xorg list
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[13:02:55]  <cjb> vignatti: cool, ok.  sounds like we can kill those drivers.
 [13:03:03]  <libv> Eh?
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[13:03:12]  <libv> kill vga?
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[13:21:08]  <jcristau> cjb: sunbw2 only does depth 1 so without xf1bpp it's pretty much dead too
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[13:46:09]  <stillunknown> libv: The rationale seems to be that vga is only useful for isa (and no support for that anymore apparently).
 [13:47:41]  <libv^ what about mach32?
 [13:47:59]  <libv> and vga doesn't have any dependency on isa
 [13:48:08]  <stillunknown> Really no idea, i'm just repeating what others said in case you missed it.
 [13:48:21]  <libv^ it uses legacy VGA io space and memory
 [13:49:19]  <stillunknown> Do you happen to know what is needed to make xorg warm restart?
 [13:49:19]  <libv> like 0x03** for io, and the A and B segments for memory
 [13:49:43]  <libv> i have no idea what you mean by a warm restart... a new server generation?
 [13:49:47]  <stillunknown> Yes.
 [13:49:49]  <daniels> libv: i'm actually not wrangling at the moment.  i've been coding, i noticed that MkHomeDir was broken because i've seen three people with new accounts who don't have homedirs, and now i'm about to go for a run before i sleep.
 [13:49:51]  <libv> so screeninit again
 [13:49:56]  <stillunknown> ScreenInit > PreInit
 [13:50:02]  <stillunknown> (number of)
 [13:50:11]  <daniels> i might wrangle on sunday if i get back from turku at a reasonable hour, but i don't know.
 [13:50:21]  <libv^ ok, have fun, and goodnight
 [13:50:29]  <daniels^ you too
 [13:50:59]  <stillunknown> I think i once installed gdm with the hopes of recreating a bug, but to no avail.
 [13:51:01]  <libv^ i think it happens when the last X client exits, but i have no idea how to trigger this otherwise
 [13:51:25]  <stillunknown> if the last X client dies, then X goes down too.
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[13:53:07]  <libv> hrm... isn't that a closescreen/screeninit that's called then?
 [13:53:19]  <libv> am i that far off :)
 [13:53:50]  <stillunknown> In a normal startx situation X never restarts.
 [13:54:05]  <stillunknown> Anyway, i'll just poke the bug again.
 [13:54:33]  <tilman> doesn't a vt switch result in a new generation?
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[13:55:38]  <jcristau> tilman: not afaik
 [13:56:03]  <vignatti+ not at all
 [13:56:06]  <daniels> no, vt switch doesn't regen.  regen happens when all clients have disconnected and you haven't provided -noreset.
 [13:56:17]  <tilman> heh, ok
 [13:56:22]  <daniels> the easiest way to trigger it is sudo Xorg :1 -ac & sleep 3 && DISPLAY=:1.0 xdpyinfo
 [13:56:37]  <stillunknown> What did i miss (last 2 mins)?
 [13:56:55]  <daniels> 20:56 < tilman> doesn't a vt switch result in a new generation?
 [13:56:56]  <daniels> 20:56 -!- alanc is now known as alanc_away
 [13:56:56]  <daniels> 20:57 < jcristau> tilman: not afaik
 [13:56:56]  <daniels> 20:57 < vignatti> tilman: not at all
 [13:56:56]  <daniels> 20:57 < daniels> no, vt switch doesn't regen.  regen happens when all clients have disconnected and you haven't provided
[13:56:58]  <daniels>                  -noreset.
 [13:57:01]  <daniels> 20:58 < tilman> heh, ok
 [13:57:03]  <daniels> 20:58 < daniels> the easiest way to trigger it is sudo Xorg :1 -ac & sleep 3 && DISPLAY=:1.0 xdpyinfo
 [13:57:43]  <stillunknown> So that command will call screeninit more than once?
 [13:58:57]  <stillunknown> daniels: And won't that result in a continues restart of X?
 [13:59:43]  <stillunknown> Ofcource not, no client to start with in the first place.
 [14:00:35]  <stillunknown> brb
 [14:04:58]  <daniels> right.
 [14:05:09]  <daniels> you regen when the last client has exited, not when you have no clients left.
 [14:05:15]  <daniels> and yes, that'll result in n > 1 screeninits.
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[14:53:05]  <ajax> oh cute.  dixLookupPrivate will allocate.
 [14:53:16]  <ajax> there is, in fact, no way to delete a private except to delete them all.
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[14:53:20]  <ajax> and no way to look them up without allocating.
 [14:56:42]  <jcristau> i guess that's what bugs 16509 and 16508 are about
 [15:00:11]  <ajax> think so yeah.
 [15:00:25]  <ajax> makes it really hard to understand destructors.
 [15:00:55]  <daniels> well, efw would be the one to ask ...
 [15:01:39]  <ajax> hey, when did he start ircing.
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[15:11:28]  <agd5f> ajax: yes! -# 1600x1024 @ 60Hz (SGI 1600SW) hsync: 64.0kHz
 [15:12:21]  <ajax> i hate that damn mode
 [15:12:37]  <agd5f> so many bugs boil down to that mode
 [15:13:26]  <libv> it's not cvt reduced, but does have some form of reduced blanking.
 [15:13:58]  <ajax> if someone really wants that mode to work reliably they can send me a 1600SW or the corresponding Apple display
 [15:14:05]  <ajax> or else send a patch that isn't crap
 [15:14:06]  <libv> therefor just looking like a bad blanking mode, to according checks
 [15:14:54]  <ajax^ doesn't though.  it passes the blanking checks.  i've got a VGA panel that's merely 1280x1024 but where we try to set 1600x1024.
 [15:15:46]  <daniels^ that was actually me that pushed the 1600sw mode in, as it was kicking around as a debian patch for years.  so you can probably blame branden as the root cause, but mea culpa.
 [15:15:48]  <libv> urgh... because the syncs and the bandwidth just happen to fit?
 [15:16:09]  <ajax> yep.
 [15:17:28]  <ajax> anyway, custom connector, detectable in the driver.  i have a patch around somewhere to stuff the mode into the pool for i128 when we detect it that i think even works (at least it got the bug reporter to go away)
 [15:18:25]  <daniels^ also, re efw, too busy not paying attention etc
 [15:18:26]  <mjg59+ You mean the i128 owner?
 [15:18:30]  <stillunknown> What's wrong with limiting the modes to the largest edid mode?
 [15:19:15]  <ajax^ you may not get any edid modes.  also CRT people like having big ranges.
 [15:19:24]  <agd5f> we should just limit it to the edid modes
 [15:19:56]  <mjg59> ajax: Limit to 1x1?
 [15:19:58]  <ajax> i'd amend that to "if there's no sync range descriptor in edid", but yeah.
 [15:20:13]  <libv> stillunknown: edid is broken.
 [15:20:35]  <libv> if we knew whether a display was a TFT or a CRT, then we would be a whole lot further
 [15:20:54]  <libv> but for some reason this was not deemed important information
 [15:21:56]  <agd5f> if the user wants something besides an edid mode, they can add a modeline
 [15:21:58]  <libv> you have to go and pussyfoot around to find out whether reduced blanking is allowed
 [15:22:01]  <stillunknown> Well, a well made edid should be ok.
 [15:22:43]  <libv+ doesn't this sg display have some sort of edid?
 [15:22:51]  <ajax^ 1.4 does make that slightly better.  it defines RB support in a real way, and also lets the monitor say whether it has a physical size in pixels.
 [15:23:00]  <ajax> of course, the monitor can still choose not to tell you these things...
 [15:23:09]  <libv> if so, what is the reason for us still carrying this mode around?
 [15:23:22]  <ajax> i have no idea if it has EDID, tbh
 [15:23:30]  <ajax> nor do i care.  they're so freakin' rare at this point.
 [15:23:38]  <libv^ ah, so some sense introduced finally
 [15:23:56]  <agd5f> if you've got one and a cable to connect it, you probably know what you are doing
 [15:23:57]  <ajax> but that mode is gone from master and 1.5 now, so.
 [15:24:44]  <libv> ah, cool
 [15:25:01]  <libv> yeah, if needs be, the user or config utility can provide the mode itself
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[15:28:36]  <spb_nick_> Hello everybody. A quick question: where could I find a description or source for xf86InitValuator* functions online? And directly accessible, i.e. not in a tarball. I have only GPRS connection this evening and have only an hour to spend on advancing in understanding how evdev driver works. Thanks :)
 [15:29:19]  <spb_nick_> I've already spend much time searching for it :(
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[15:42:26]  <spb_nick_> OK, this seems to be a boring question :). Another one: I'm thinking on starting a project to make several popular and cheap graphics tablets work properly in Linux. I've previously hacked (yes, it was already a hack, but still) the WizardPen driver to support several more tablets. I've already made a fix for the kernel for one particular tablet and am now trying to make a quick fix to Debian's stable version of evdev. Here is the question: a
 [15:42:45]  <Ori_B^ gitweb.freedesktop.org
 [15:43:02]  <Ori_B> and you got cut off at "Here is the question: a"
 [15:44:00]  <spb_nick_^ Sorry :)
 [15:44:12]  <spb_nick_> Here is the question: are you aware of another project which has similar goals? I.e. to make as much as possible of cheap graphics tablets work good/properly in Linux?
 [15:45:21]  <spb_nick_> Ori_B: Thanks, I was actually pretty close: already got to cgit.freedesktop.org, but no luck :)
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[16:01:47]  <eikke> which lib defines I can use unix/:-1 as font path?
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[17:34:27]  <eikke> which lib could be misconfigured so XFS/unix/:-1 doesnt work anymore? or what option did i miss?
 [17:40:13]  <alanc> never seen :-1 in a font path - font path parsing should be libFS & libxtrans
 [17:43:33]  <eikke> is it normal I cant find the string 'unix/' in any of my source files?
 [17:45:22]  <alanc> yep
 [17:45:40]  <alanc> libxtrans splits the string at "/" and then looks for "unix" in the first half
 [17:45:43]  <eikke> right, /me puzzled :p it used to work as long as I was using some system libs
 [17:46:25]  <alanc> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libxtrans/tree/Xtranssock.c#n191 for instance
 [17:46:32]  <eikke> ty
 [17:47:04]  <alanc> (note that despite the name libxtrans is not a library, but a collection of shared source code compiled into each library/app that uses it)
 [17:49:39]  <eikke> yeah, I noticed that while building, wondered why a .c file was #include'd
 [17:50:29]  <eikke> UNIXCONN is enabled both in libFS and libXfont
 [17:50:48]  <eikke> but my ephyr isnt linked to libFS
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[19:31:32]  <eikke> alanc: turned out I had to add --disable-builtin-fonts to the xserver configure line
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[19:31:56]  <alanc> oh yeah, that change just went into git yesterday
 [19:32:09]  <alanc> didn't realize you were on head
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[19:32:16]  <eikke> hah :) some gdb'ing told me as well
 [19:32:28]  <eikke> yup
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[20:51:02]  <benh> airlied: did you commit anything yet ?
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[20:52:19]  <benh> airlied: hrm... I suppose I could commit in a branch and pull and update
 [20:52:42]  <benh> might not have much cycles today for it, so I wonder what do we do from now, ie, how do we clean the mess up
 [20:52:55]  <benh> especially the bit with C aliasing breakge that I need to fix for the table header
 [20:52:59]  <benh> I might do that today
 [20:54:43]  <airlied^ not yet, I was going to pull bits out of the patch and cleanly shove em into a branch.
 [20:55:04]  <spstarr> airlied / benh: has the TTM vs GEM war decided what radeon will use?
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[20:57:12]  <benh> spstarr: no idea
 [20:57:13]  <benh> airlied: well
 [20:57:17]  <spstarr> hmm
 [20:57:24]  <benh> airlied: if we want a chance for the AtomBios/* bits to be merged upstream by ATI
 [20:57:31]  <benh> we probably need to do things a bit differently
 [20:57:36]  <benh> use less X or linux centric macros
 [20:57:49]  <benh> I'll come up with an updated patch around those lines, you'll see what I have in mind
 [20:59:08]  <mjg59^ We need to figure out a way to ge AtomBios in a state where it can be both in-kernel and still mergable with AMD's code, too
 [20:59:16]  <mjg59> Not convicned that's going to be fun
 [20:59:26]  <benh> yeah
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[21:00:12]  <benh> worst case, now that I understand well how it works, I could rewrite it cleanly :-)
 [21:00:27]  <benh> doing the endian fixing pretty much required me to understand the gory details all the way to the bottom
 [21:01:00]  <benh> those there's little we can do about the struct definitions in atombios.h
 [21:01:11]  <benh> unless we write some script to mechanically make them cleaner
 [21:01:19]  <benh> (ie, de-uppercasing names etc...)
 [21:01:30]  <benh> because that's an area where we will need to pull updates from ATI regulary
 [21:01:57]  <benh> while the interpreter isn't likely to change much, so even if they add an opcode or two, it's easy to diff the ugly version and fixup the clean one
 [21:03:33]  <airlied> spstarr: it isn't really a GEM vs TTM war on radeno.
 [21:03:43]  <airlied> thats only intel..
 [21:04:04]  <airlied> benh: makes sense...
 [21:04:21]  <airlied> I have a script that deifdes most of atombios.
 [21:04:25]  <airlied> and reindents it.
 [21:04:38]  <benh> have there been any plan to make EXA & TTM be more friends or that's just not on the roadmap ?
 [21:04:40]  <spstarr> airlied: which will we be using?
 [21:04:43]  <airlied> as a first step to making it kernel worthy..
 [21:04:56]  <airlied> spstarr: pieces of both.
 [21:04:59]  <spstarr> ooh
 [21:05:38]  <benh> airlied: well, for the .c code, re-indenting it won't help much with the 500 cols lines
 [21:05:45]  <airlied^ indeed it didn't..
 [21:05:47]  <benh^ teaching whoever wrote it about local variables might tho :-)
 [21:06:14]  <benh> when you see something like 20 copies of struct ((foo *)a->b.c->d)->e
 [21:06:25]  <benh> in the same bloc
 [21:06:30]  <benh> it makes your eyes bleed
 [21:06:50]  <benh> i'm sure somebody honestly though it would make the compiler use less stack space :-)
 [21:07:16]  <benh> I wonder if ATI would take that sort of cleanup
 [21:07:30]  <benh> I'd rather leave it to a separate patch from the pure endian fixes
 [21:07:44]  <benh> I'll "update" the endian fixes to look more like the rest of their stuff later today
 [21:07:50]  <airlied> maybe we just bodge it up for now and see what happens later :)
 [21:08:11]  <benh> yeah
 [21:08:21]  <benh> oh well, let me see what i can do today
 [21:08:26]  <benh> I -do- need to fix that aliasing issue anyway
 [21:08:30]  <airlied> really atombios.h and the ObjectID.h are things we will be mainly getting from AMd.
 [21:08:40]  <airlied> the rest could concieveably end up different
 [21:08:51]  <benh> yup, I'm not too worried about Decoder.c and CD_Operations.c as I don't see then changing a lot
 [21:09:02]  <benh> if they end yup adding an op or two, we can always "backport"
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[21:39:33]  <benh> airlied: getting console offb to restore may be hard too
 [21:39:42]  <benh> ATOM provides ways to "read" the current mode, tmds setting, etc... ?
 [21:40:00]  <benh> because reading/writing back registers is an option but that  won't help much if some external TMDS encoder needs to be whacked
 [21:40:18]  <benh> looks like we -really- want kernel mode setting here :-)
 [21:41:16]  <airlied^ we aalways want that :)
 [21:41:32]  <airlied> the r500 restore code should work though.
 [21:41:54]  <airlied> the mode setting blocks are lot less crazy  than on older radeons.
 [21:56:10]  <benh^ sure tho they don't include things like external TMDS do they ?
 [21:56:17]  <benh> ie, if the pixel clock changes it needs to be reconfigured
 [21:56:25]  <benh> anyway, it doesn't so we'll have to do some register dumping
 [21:56:42]  <benh> I'll send you a new patch more in the "Atom style", with debug stuff compiled out optionally
 [21:57:03]  <airlied^ we don't have external TMDS on r500 usually.
 [21:57:25]  <airlied> the internal TMDS are all duallink
 [21:57:29]  <benh> ok
 [21:57:58]  <airlied> and I get back to text mode fine here with r500 on dual-link TMDS
 [21:58:12]  <airlied> so I think its just dump before starting, run, exit, dump again
 [21:58:16]  <airlied> see what screwed up.
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[22:01:21]  <efw> ajax: devPrivates were historically allocated at object-creation time.  They were stored directly after the object in memory.  So lots of code simply assumes they are there, hence dixLookupPrivates allocates.
 [22:01:47]  <efw> if you want calls to check without allocating and delete let me know.
 [22:02:12]  <efw> I will look at 16508 and 16509 tomorrow.
 [22:05:26]  <benh> airlied: almost done obfuscating my fixes to look more like the rest of AtomBios :-)
 [22:16:50]  <benh> atombios include dependency is a mess too
 [22:24:19]  <benh> new diff on your way
 [22:24:23]  <benh> I look at console restore later
 [22:25:10]  <benh> you are welcome to beat me to it tho, I need to switch to some other things asap
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[23:22:49]  <benh> airlied: btw, do we save the text mode before we try to POST ? :-)
 [23:22:55]  <benh> that would be a problem if not
 [23:23:01]  <benh> tho we can't save a non-POSTed card either can we ?
 [23:23:22]  <benh> I think that would be part of my problem, especially since we are POSTing someting that doesn't need to be POSTed with the current hack code
 [23:23:36]  <benh> ie, the Atom struct we look at contains 0 but that doesn't mean we aren't POSTed
 [23:23:43]  <benh> we should look at registers instead I suppose
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[23:26:58]  <airlied> benh: yeah that makes sense, but I think we save the regs for even an unposted card in theory.
 [23:27:23]  <benh^ ok, I'll have a look
 [23:27:32]  <benh> I really need to do something else for a little while now tho
 [23:27:46]  <benh> so I'll let you look at the patch I sent and move forward from there, at least for now
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[03:28:35]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[06:28:24]  <JohnFlux> I keep getting the error:   make[7]: *** No rule to make target `../../../config/libconfig.a', needed by `Xsgx'. Stop.      Xsgx is my code in a subdirectory in xserver/hw/kdrive/
 [06:43:04]  <dr-xorg> alanc_away: my app/xrx  compile dies after having in configure run:
 [06:43:04]  <dr-xorg> checking for MOZILLA_PLUGIN... no
 [06:43:04]  <dr-xorg> checking for FIREFOX_PLUGIN... no
 [06:43:04]  <dr-xorg> ./configure: line 20779: top_srcdir: command not found
 [06:43:04]  <dr-xorg> ..with:
 [06:43:05]  <dr-xorg> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I../rx -DNETSCAPE_PLUGIN -DXP_UNIX -DMOZ_X11 -DOJI -DXP_UNIX -D_BSD_SOURCE -DHAS_FCHOWN -DHAS_STICKY_DIR_BIT -I/opt/Xorg/include -I/opt/Xorg/include -I/plugin/include -I/opt/Xorg/include/pixman-1 -I/opt/Xorg/include -MT PRead.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/PRead.Tpo -c ../rx/PRead.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/PRead.o
 [06:43:09]  <dr-xorg> In file included from ../rx/PRead.c:30:
 [06:43:11]  <dr-xorg> ../rx/RxI.h:41:19: error: npapi.h: No such file or directory
 [06:43:57]  <dr-xorg> as you can see, the missing top_srcdir makes the plugin include dir be specified wrong...
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[06:53:21]  <dr-xorg> is it possible that this: http://pastebin.com/m35af6296
 [06:53:23]  <dr-xorg> would fix it?
 [07:00:12]  <dr-xorg> no, it doesn't :(
 [07:00:28]  <JohnFlux> vi Mak:)
 [07:00:29]  <JohnFlux> :)
 [07:00:39]  <JohnFlux> stupid paste
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[07:12:15]  <JohnFlux> hum
 [07:17:13]  <daniels> dr-xorg: why ar eyou trying to build xrx?
 [07:17:46]  <dr-xorg> hm ... :) it is in the list of apps built by build.sh ?
 [07:18:10]  <dr-xorg> (no specific reason , in other words ...)
 [07:18:31]  <daniels> JohnFlux: i can't see why libconfig would possibly not be built
 [07:18:37]  <daniels> does make -C config, from the top level, work?
 [07:19:13]  <JohnFlux^ I'll check..  give me a moment for it to be built :/
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[07:45:56]  <JohnFlux> daniels: ah, it failed earlier on compiling it :/
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[07:46:04]  <JohnFlux> daniels: missing dbus.h
 [07:46:13]  <JohnFlux> can I compile without dbus?
 [07:46:56]  <JohnFlux>   --enable-config-dbus    Build D-BUS API support (default: no)    hmm it should default to off
 [07:47:05]  * JohnFlux investigates
 [07:48:57]  <JohnFlux> okay i've added --disable-config-dbus  to configure, and see how that works..
 [07:49:19]  <whot^ config-dbus is the dbus API, not dbus support
 [07:49:32]  <whot> --disable-config-hal should also disable dbus IIRC
 [07:50:13]  <JohnFlux> ah
 [07:50:37]  <JohnFlux> whot: thanks
 [07:51:41]  <daniels> it shouldn't try to build if the headers aren't present, but this is probably just the cross-compilation thing.
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[07:56:08]  <whot> daniels: correct, I spend many hours recompiling after finding that libhal-dev wasn't installed at configure time :)
 [07:57:01]  <daniels> devicekit will save us all
 [07:57:19]  <eikke> right
 [07:57:22]  <JohnFlux> we should switch the build system over to cmake :-D
 [07:57:34]  <JohnFlux> has this been considered at all btw?
 [07:57:42]  <eikke^ which works terribly well when crosscompiling
 [07:57:51]  <eikke> </sarcasm>
 [07:57:54]  <JohnFlux^ is that sarcasm?
 [07:57:55]  <JohnFlux> heh
 [07:58:13]  <whot^ talked about, nothing happend
 [07:59:27]  <daniels> if someone steps up and shows that cmake is better than autotools, then we'll talk.  until then, it's pretty pointless discussing it.
 [07:59:49]  <JohnFlux> fair enough
 [08:00:54]  <JohnFlux> With porter-duff compositing operations in xrender
 [08:01:22]  <JohnFlux> does using CompositeIn, say, mean that you clear everything in the destination?
 [08:03:35]  <JohnFlux> so..  say I have a pixmap of size 10x10 that is completely transparent.  and I blit this to the screen using CompositeIn.  Will this result in basically clearing a 10x10 rectange on the screen?
 [08:03:42]  <JohnFlux> rectangle
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[08:12:53]  <mherrb> cmake has way too much external dependencies to be acceptable to build X imho.
 [08:15:14]  <eikke> no need to ship cmake, it can dump regular makefiles
 [08:15:25]  <eikke> (note, I'm no cmake fanboy at all)
 [08:16:28]  <daniels> but surely dumping makefiles doesn't let you configure stuff at runtime and let it autodetect?
 [08:16:51]  <eikke> no clue :)
 [08:18:01]  <drago01> daniels: nope .. you have to run "cmake ." to let it autodetect stuff (and generate/update the makefiles)
 [08:19:09]  <eikke> my bad
 [08:19:39]  <eikke> maybe they should dump makefiles which generate makefiles after checking out configuration on the build system :P
 [08:19:54]  <daniels> heh
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[08:45:09]  <kling0n> does anyone know if there are plans to assign a new maintainer to the SIS video driver ?
 [08:47:19]  <daniels^ maintainers don't get assigned.  we don't even really have enough people to work on the core stuff.  if anyone comes along and wants to start working on the sis driver, that would be great, but until then, we're pretty stuck just getting the basics working.
 [08:47:23]  <kling0n> as far as I can see, Thomas Winischhofer  has withdrawn
 [08:47:28]  <kling0n> daniels: ok
 [08:47:57]  <kling0n> I was just wondering whether some of the patches from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14848 had been implemented in the release
 [08:48:11]  <daniels> yes, twini hasn't been around for a long time.
 [08:48:24]  <kling0n> if i use the intel-provided driver for the 662 chipset my freebsd box crashes horribly
 [08:49:21]  <kling0n> ech... all the patches are binary patches
 [08:50:33]  <daniels> they're just .tar.gz's, for some reason
 [08:50:41]  <daniels> the patch is over 32,000 lines, though.
 [08:54:04]  <kling0n^ i think i'll give it a shot with the latest version of twini's sources
 [08:54:30]  <kling0n> can't be worse than the complete system lockup I get at the moment
 [08:54:50]  <kling0n> thanks for the info
 [08:55:47]  <daniels> np
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[09:10:15]  <kling0n> oh well.. they won't compile on freebsd... ill go talk to  the sis packager there ...
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[09:53:13]  <anderco> ajax: ping
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[12:51:39]  <wingo> good day. are the transformcoordinate / redirectcoordinate events and functions from http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/compositeproto/tree/compositeproto.txt still valid? they seem to not be implemented, neither in the clients nor in the server
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[13:00:36]  <ajax> wingo: they never have been. afaik that bit of the spec is an rfc.
 [13:00:51]  <wingo^ tx
 [13:01:37]  <anderco+ about the "mouse of a thousand buttons", I got another report from the user
 [13:01:50]  <anderco> it generates button events above BTN_TASK
 [13:02:10]  <anderco> BNT_TASK + 1 and BTN_TASK + 2, more specifically
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[15:11:20]  <ajax> grarghrlgyahghla
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[15:11:34]  <ajax> mesa is not improving my mood
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[15:15:20]  <Gadi> hey, all.  I am trying to find the maintainer of the "trident" video driver to ask a question - is s/he around?
 [15:17:43]  <ajax> there isn't one, really.
 [15:18:10]  <ajax> alanh would be the closest thing to a maintainer but he's rarely on irc.
 [15:18:18]  <Gadi> ah, ok
 [15:18:22]  <ajax> and hasn't touched it in quite a while.
 [15:18:25]  <ajax> what's the question?
 [15:19:18]  <Gadi> well, I have an issue with the trident driver + Xorg 1.3.  Everything works fine, except after a period of time, the USB controller dies completely and the USB mouse stops working
 [15:19:30]  <Gadi> its as if the driver is writing over the USB controller's memory space
 [15:19:51]  <Gadi> because any attempt to reload the usb drivers does not correct the issue
 [15:19:59]  <Gadi> and the system needs to be rebooted
 [15:20:30]  <Gadi> I wanted to know if there was a way to restrict the memory space that the driver uses to workaround this bug
 [15:20:44]  <Gadi> (note:  vesa driver does not have this issue)
 [15:21:18]  <Gadi> Im afraid the trident driver may not receive correct info on the memory addresses it is allowed to use from the Xserver
 [15:24:20]  <Gadi> does that make sense?
 [15:24:54]  <ajax> kinda.  typically the drivers only map PCI resources of the device they're talking to though.
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[15:25:21]  <ajax> so it's more likely not a matter of the server addressing something wrong, but rather that it's triggering DMA to someplace it shouldn't.
 [15:25:23]  <Gadi> hmm...
 [15:25:32]  <ajax> (or something along those lines)
 [15:25:38]  <Gadi> well, PS/2 keyboard continuees to work
 [15:26:23]  <Gadi> but, it is like the usb hid gets cut off at the root
 [15:26:25]  <Gadi> :)
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[16:02:38]  <agd5f> ajax: although I seriously doubt the trident driver does any DMA at this point
 [16:03:14]  <jcristau+ do you know if anyone's working on getting mesa to build against libdrm 2.3.1?
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[16:03:44]  <ajax> jcristau: no idea offhand.
 [16:03:51]  <jcristau> ok
 [16:03:58]  <ajax> i should probably make sure that gets sorted one way or the other
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[16:07:39]  <daniels> for some reason, i misread that as 'i should probably make sure i get married one way or the other'.
 [16:09:58]  <ajax> well that's legal here, so.
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[16:32:07]  <dberkholz> ajax: all my work for nothing!
 [16:32:31]  <dberkholz> well, nothing except my ebuild that doesn't get used because nothing builds with released libdrm..
 [16:33:00]  <dberkholz> jcristau: my impression was that 2.4 was gonna get released for it
 [16:33:07]  <dberkholz> i suppose airlied would know
 [16:33:19]  <ajax> yeah, i ended up just pulling your bits
 [16:33:32]  <ajax> (uh.  hmm.  not the best phrasing.)
 [16:33:39]  <dberkholz> pull 'em all you want, baby
 [16:33:53]  <ajax> i'm hitting other non-libdrm fails though
 [16:33:53]  <jcristau> dberkholz: i think airlied created libdrm-2_3-branch for this
 [16:33:56]  <ajax> glxdriswrast.c:129: error: '__GLXDRIscreen' has no member named 'copySubBuffer'
 [16:33:59]  <ajax> etc.
 [16:34:17]  <jcristau> dberkholz: but, the intel drivers on mesa master want ttm
 [16:34:18]  <ajax> which i think means i have an insufficiently awesome mesa?
 [16:34:31]  <dberkholz> my understanding of the whole plan was to get rid of ttm and have stuff released without it.
 [16:34:40]  <dberkholz> jcristau: even with the configure flag off?
 [16:34:49]  <jcristau> ah, maybe not
 [16:35:00]  <jcristau> i didn't try using configure
 [16:35:11]  <dberkholz> i tried applying that patch to 7.1rc1 and failed. weird crap with those depend files
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[16:35:16]  <dberkholz> i hate that build system
 [16:37:33]  <jcristau> yeah. and switching to the configure thing means i have to try and understand said build system at least a little
 [16:40:04]  <dberkholz^ oh, i'll link ya to my ebuild
 [16:40:19]  <dberkholz> basically check out src_compile() in http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/media-libs/mesa/mesa-7.1_rc1.ebuild?rev=1.2&view=markup
 [16:40:38]  <jcristau> thanks
 [16:40:55]  <dberkholz> driver_enable() is just a function defined a bit farther down and eminently not interesting
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[16:44:05]  <jcristau> dberkholz: so you don't build osmesa or the xlib version?
 [16:44:32]  <dberkholz^ nah. osmesa has actually become reasonable to build with the autoconf setup, but i'm not doing it yet
 [16:44:40]  <dberkholz> there's 1 guy on bugzilla who wants it.
 [16:45:01]  <dberkholz> not the best use of my time
 [16:45:03]  <jcristau> ok.  i think i build osmesa 6 times right now.
 [16:45:27]  <dberkholz> i don't recall where i saw this, but i did see something saying that the osmesa32 build should actually work on all depths
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[16:49:39]  <airlied> I was going to release 2.3.1.
 [16:49:49]  <airlied> then anholt said they might clean it up for GEM.
 [16:50:01]  <airlied> but it might not get the schedule so maybe I should push 2.3.1
 [16:50:14]  <airlied> I think server 1.5 needs fixage to build against that, i.e. disable dri2
 [16:50:45]  <anholt> if you had the time for 2.3.1, that'd be nice.  unfortunately this tiling bug is blocking me from merging things :/
 [16:51:40]  <jcristau> airlied: so just bump the dri2 req from >= 2.3.1 to something higher in configure.ac?
 [16:52:08]  <airlied> I think I have 2.3.1 all ready to go on that branch.
 [16:52:31]  <airlied> so I should totally release that.
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[17:00:29]  <jcristau> dberkholz: so, trying to build mesa against libdrm-2_3-branch, seems to still want to build common/dri_bufmgr.c which wants drm_bo stuff
 [17:01:57]  <airlied^ uggh.. that mesa master?
 [17:02:33]  <jcristau^ from a couple weeks ago. let me try with something newer...
 [17:03:57]  <airlied^ I pushed in fixes to build not sure when.
 [17:04:03]  <airlied> and someone may have busted them since.
 [17:04:11]  <airlied> but it needs configure
 [17:04:33]  <airlied> there is an env var I think you can use TTM_API is in it.
 [17:07:08]  <jcristau> an env var, or a macro?
 [17:07:35]  <dberkholz> look at configure.ac, it's in there
 [17:07:42]  <jcristau> configure puts -DTTM_API in DEFINES for ttm, but that's off by default
 [17:07:54]  <jcristau> airlied: same failure with mesa master
 [17:08:57]  <jcristau> using './autogen.sh --with-driver=dri --with-dri-drivers=i915; make'
 [17:10:57]  <airlied^ bummer... can you pastebin the error?
 [17:11:01]  <airlied> it might be just something I missed.
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[17:14:04]  <jcristau> seems to build if i remove intel_bufmgr_ttm.c and $(COMMON_BM_SOURCES) from src/mesa/drivers/dri/i915/Makefile
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[17:15:46]  <airlied> jcristau: might not run so well though.
 [17:15:54]  <airlied> missing dri_bufmgr.c and dri_bufmgr_fake.c
 [17:20:09]  <ajax> dberkholz: thanks for the gl work!
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[17:25:27]  <aaronp> ajax: Are CompositePicture and/or ValidatePicture supposed to be callable from modules?  I.e., should they be _X_EXPORT?
 [17:26:25]  <jcristau> airlied: yeah, didn't test that :)
 [17:27:49]  <jcristau> still want the error in pastebin?
 [17:27:53]  <airlied^ please..
 [17:28:44]  <jcristau^ http://paste.debian.net/8017/
 [17:29:52]  <ajax> aaronp: seems like they should be.  although i'm curious under what circumstances you need to generate your own Render drawing.
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[17:30:43]  <ajax> aaronp: also, devprivate ABI functions.  cool for 1.5 if we bump the ABI minor numbers?
 [17:31:00]  <airlied> jcristau: oops.. need to add some more defiines in the non TTM case for now.
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[17:41:22]  <dberkholz> ajax: glad i could help, i really wanted it in 1.5
 [17:42:09]  <dberkholz> separating mesa and xorg-server entirely is so awesome it makes me want to cry tears of joy
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[17:42:45]  <dberkholz> maybe for 1.6 i'll finally get around to splitting libxf86config into its own package
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[17:43:06]  <ajax> ideally we'll move to libx86 too.
 [17:45:28]  <jcristau> someone should fix libx86 to build on !x86, too
 [17:46:25]  <ajax> ExcludeArch:    ppc ppc64
 [17:46:32]  <ajax> apparently we think it builds on amd64...
 [17:47:00]  <jcristau> amd64 and i386, yes
 [17:47:17]  <jcristau> but i thought it was supposed to have an x86emu backend for others?
 [17:47:55]  <ajax> it's x86emu on amd64 too.
 [17:48:06]  <ajax> (in fact, we build it x86emu even on x86)
 [17:48:26]  <ajax> amd64 doesn't have a vm86 processor mode, after all
 [17:48:46]  <jcristau> true
 [17:48:49]  <ajax> and if you really want i can launch into a long rant about why vm86 is an insane idea that no one should ever have implemented let alone still be using.
 [17:49:40]  <mjg59> jcristau: It has an x86emu backend, but doesn'thandle the i/o stuff
 [17:49:55]  <mjg59> Which isn't too hard to fix up, but.
 [17:50:11]  <jcristau> ok
 [17:51:16]  <ajax> mjg59: which reminds me, i need to push the last few int10 fixes in the server back to libx86
 [17:51:23]  <ajax> or you need to pull them, or whatever.
 [17:51:28]  <mjg59> Yeah
 [17:51:36]  <mjg59> Or push Kees' patches that automatically pull it in
 [17:52:51]  <airlied> we should make 1.6 need libx86
 [17:53:27]  <jcristau> mjg59: i just meant that if X is going to move to libx86, then it would be nice to have that built on more than i386 and amd64. some day :)
 [17:54:07]  <ajax> you only really need it if you want to support posting cards with x86 firmware on that arch.
 [17:54:21]  <ajax> if you're embedded arm with no pci slots, who cares.
 [17:54:33]  <dberkholz> so if you want to buy the non-expensive cards for your g5
 [17:59:43]  <mjg59> You've already failed because the firmware has cried
[18:00:19]  <mjg59> Huh. uvesafb ought to be workable on PPC.
 [18:00:40]  <mjg59> It's just a simple linear framebuffer and a mode set call from userspace, after all
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[18:03:31]  <agd5f> doesn't tiago have a patch to build xserver aginst libx86?
 [18:04:15]  <jbarnes^ see my comment about an ugly fake output to handle gpu properties?
 [18:05:46]  <agd5f^ no
 [18:05:52]  <agd5f> on irc?
 [18:06:10]  <jbarnes> yeah... anyway I was just thinking of a perverse workaround for our lack of gpu properties
 [18:06:16]  <agd5f^ I had thought about that too
 [18:06:19]  <jbarnes> just create a fake output and put all the stuff there
 [18:06:35]  <jbarnes> would be easy enough to move it over to the gpu one when it shows up
 [18:07:02]  <agd5f> I worried about keeping ti around for backwards compat though
 [18:07:31]  <jbarnes> yeah that might be an issue
 [18:07:33]  <agd5f> in case some tool or gui decides to use it
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[18:07:43]  <jbarnes> you could always keep both for one release or something once the gpu stuff shows up
 [18:07:50]  <agd5f> true
 [18:08:00]  <agd5f> deprecate it evetually
 [18:08:12]  <jbarnes> thing is, we don't know how far off the gpu object is, and I really want my fan control :)
 [18:08:25]  <agd5f^ yeah me too.  I want powerplay!
 [18:08:33]  <jbarnes> :)
 [18:08:37]  <onestone> is someone working on gpu objects?
 [18:08:56]  <agd5f^ ajax looked at it at one point
 [18:09:04]  <agd5f> not sure he did anything with it though
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[18:14:19]  <onestone> If radeon and intel start to use fake outputs, then maybe nobody will start to implement GPU objects, because the won't be needed anymore ;-)
 [18:14:44]  <jbarnes> if that were the only reason they were needed, then yeah fake outputs would be fine
 [18:14:55]  <jbarnes> but iirc ajax also wanted them for multi card setups
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[18:16:07]  <jbarnes> so we'll probably see them eventually, but it'll probably be awhile
 [18:16:16]  <onestone> but then you also need a server object, to dynamically configure xserver options ;-)
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[18:21:58]  <agd5f> onestone: one step at a time :)
 [18:24:16]  <onestone^ just provide a generic tree based property system. server->gpu->output
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[18:27:51]  <onestone> agd5f: so that it could be used also for other drivers like synaptics
 [18:29:30]  <agd5f^ patches welcome :)
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[18:34:34]  <onestone> I'm scared, everytime I look into the xserver sources ;-)
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[20:32:26]  <jbarnes> agd5f: you're an animal :)
 [20:32:33]  <jbarnes> 178 commits in the last release, nice
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[20:34:12]  <agd5f> jbarnes: all of them pure gold :)
 [20:34:18]  <jbarnes> heh
 [20:35:23]  <mjg59> agd5f: Woohoo textured video
 [20:35:30]  <mjg59> Soon it'll be like we're living in the future
 [20:35:39]  <spstarr> radeon goodies?
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[20:40:35]  <gravity> Wobbly video ftw
 [20:40:57]  <mjg59> It's gonna change everything
 [20:41:36]  <gravity> I wouldn't mind seeing bad movies burst in to flames when I close totem
 [20:41:47]  <mjg59> Dude. Hackers is not a bad movie.
 [20:42:05]  <airlied^ Tron is much better.
 [20:42:09]  <gravity> I didn't mean Hackers. It'd be fitting for Firewall though
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[21:11:20]  <benh> airlied: tried R6xx, doesn't get a display
 [21:11:32]  <benh> we'll have to play compare-with-x86 on that one too
 [21:11:46]  <benh> I do expect endian issues tho anyway since we don't have working swappers
 [21:11:56]  <benh> but right now, I get no sync
 [21:12:27]  <airlied^ does it crash? or just not sync?
 [21:12:38]  <benh> just not sync
 [21:12:40]  <benh> hrm
 [21:12:46]  <airlied^ the connector tables may need looking at
 [21:12:48]  <benh> Connector... VGA, DacType: None
 [21:12:49]  <benh> sounds weird
 [21:12:51]  <airlied> they are different on r600
 [21:12:51]  <benh> yeah
 [21:12:56]  <airlied> Object_ID.h
 [21:12:57]  <benh> they look bogus
 [21:13:03]  <benh> it gets the 3 connectors right
 [21:13:13]  <benh> ie, VGA, DIN (S-Video ?) and DVI-I
 [21:13:20]  <benh> but it doesn't get the DACType and TMDSType
 [21:13:33]  <benh> it does find the monitor with DDC
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[21:14:06]  <airlied> yeah sounds like GetATOMConnectorInfoFromBIOSObject
 [21:14:11]  <airlied> I only started cleaning that up
 [21:14:33]  <benh> yuck
 [21:14:52]  <benh> ok
 [21:15:02]  <benh> I'll look some other time, I was just doing a quick test
 [21:15:02]  <airlied> I didn't have an r600 near the G5 at the time.
 [21:15:10]  <benh> so it looks good, ie, the POST seems to work
 [21:15:12]  <benh> it's just a glitch
 [21:15:23]  <benh> and we have to wait for agd5f to get us the doc on the swappers anyway
 [21:15:31]  <airlied^ I should have time to pull it all together next week..
 [21:15:33]  <benh> I need to go back to fixing XGI bits now
 [21:15:38]  <benh> excellent
 [21:15:44]  <airlied> I need to move the G5 into my lab..
 [21:15:49]  <benh> I may have a bit of time next week too
 [21:15:50]  <benh> heh
 [21:16:10]  <benh> oh, it also fails to restore console
 [21:16:14]  <benh> I'll have to look at that
 [21:16:22]  <benh> it's actually a big issue for real world people :-)
 [21:16:27]  <benh> btw, card here is RV610
 [21:16:31]  <benh> cheapo R6xx
 [21:16:36]  <airlied> same as my one :)
 [21:16:42]  <airlied> no budget for me :)
 [21:17:02]  <airlied> I'll have a look at how r600 swappers work of if they exist.
 [21:17:21]  <benh> agd5f says they do, they just are different
 [21:17:30]  <benh> not documented in what we have today but will be in what he'll release soon
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[21:21:02]  <airlied> bbl..
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[23:42:15]  <Gosu> hi
 [23:43:35]  <Gosu> somebody alive?
 [23:52:06]  <Gosu> how i can directly scaner control under win32? trough usbscan.sys without TWAIN and where i can get scaner low lewel instructions docs?
 [23:52:51]  <airlied^ think you are in the wrong channerl.
 [23:53:47]  <Gosu> sorry
 [23:53:51]  <Gosu> bye
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----- [2008-06-27] -----
 [00:08:37]  <aaronp> ajax: One of my coworkers was asking about them for some trapezoid acceleration thing he's doing.
 [00:08:46]  <aaronp> Bumping the ABI minor numbers sounds good to me.
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[01:16:18]  <vignatti> where is the fd.o cvs?
 [01:17:05]  <airlied^ cvs.fd.o
 [01:17:27]  <airlied> hmm webcvs seems  to be sick
 [01:17:46]  <vignatti> 'it works!' seems to not work :/
 [01:18:15]  <vignatti> who I must to poke about it?
 [01:18:46]  <airlied> daniels maybe..
 [01:18:51]  <airlied> or benjsc if he is around
 [01:22:52]  <vignatti^ btw, i trying to investigate the possibility to put the hw cursor inside DRM
 [01:23:02]  <vignatti> but i don't know anything about DRM code
 [01:23:09]  <vignatti> where I must to start? :)
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[01:26:11]  <airlied> vignatti: modesetting-101 branch.
 [01:26:19]  <airlied> as you would want the modesetting code I assume to do that
 [01:26:33]  <airlied> modesetting already puts the cursor setting in the kernel
 [01:26:36]  <vignatti> well, it seems to be the future right? :)
 [01:27:00]  <airlied> so you would just need to shortcut the mouse events to the cursor setting function
 [01:27:15]  <vignatti^ what do you mean about cursor setting?
 [01:27:27]  <airlied^ setting the cursor position..
 [01:27:28]  <vignatti> the blt cursor functions?
 [01:27:40]  <vignatti> ahh okay
 [01:27:44]  <airlied> modesetting gets a memory block from userspace and the coordss.
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[03:30:03]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:02:26]  <JohnFlux> yo
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[05:28:14]  <JohnFlux> I can't seem to compiling xserver  with dbus disabled
 [05:28:27]  <JohnFlux> it just ignores the --disable-config-dbus switch
 [05:29:32]  <JohnFlux> how can I force HAVE_DBUS to be set to 0 ?
 [05:30:49]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [05:30:58]  <JohnFlux> According to the configure.ac file:
 [05:31:16]  <JohnFlux> dnl HAVE_DBUS is true if we actually have the D-Bus library, whereas CONFIG_DBUS_API is true if we want to enable the D-Bus config API
 [05:31:34]  <JohnFlux> so I think it's an error for the c files to check #ifdef HAVE_DBUS
 [05:31:38]  <JohnFlux> instead they should check #
 [05:31:43]  <JohnFlux> instead they should check #ifdef CONFIG_DBUS_API  or something
 [05:31:55]  <JohnFlux> does this sound correct to anyone? :)
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[05:41:05]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [05:41:18]  <JohnFlux> is there any way to force PKG_CHECK_MODULES to return force?
 [05:41:24]  <JohnFlux> for cross compiling purposes
 [05:46:52]  <daniels^ yeah, that's correct
 [05:47:02]  <daniels> dbus-core.c should be built if CONFIG_DBUS_API || CONFIG_HAL
 [05:47:10]  <daniels> dbus.c should be built if CONFIG_DBUS_API
 [05:47:14]  <daniels> hal.c should be built if CONFIG_HAL
 [05:47:28]  <daniels> CONFIG_DBUS_API depends on both the config option and HAVE_DBUS being true
 [05:47:33]  <JohnFlux> and the Makefile.am  too I think
 [05:47:43]  <daniels> indeed.
 [05:47:43]  <JohnFlux> needs to be adjusted
 [05:48:24]  <JohnFlux> daniels: for now i'll patch configure, but do you want to make that change for the future?
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[05:50:38]  <daniels> does http://people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/have-dbus-becomes-need-config-dbus.diff work?
 [05:54:40]  <JohnFlux^ it takes a long time for me to build :(
 [05:57:31]  <daniels> tell me about it
 [05:58:20]  <JohnFlux^ i'll let you know in about 20 mins whether that worked :-)
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[06:04:06]  <daniels> heh
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[06:36:10]  <JohnFlux> daniels: it doesn't work :-D
 [06:36:29]  <JohnFlux> okay so config-backends.h still sees HAVE_DBUS as being set
 [06:36:52]  <JohnFlux> specifically I get the error "dbus/dbus.h: No such file or directory"
 [06:38:26]  <daniels> right ... updated patch available below
 [06:38:31]  <daniels> s/below/at the same url/
 [06:38:32]  <daniels> -> lunch
 [06:38:42]  <daniels> pkg-config really does need proper cross-compilation support though
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[06:45:02]  <JohnFlux> daniels: okay, here we go again.. ;)
 [06:45:23]  <JohnFlux> I should try to work out how to build xserver by itself
[06:45:41]  <JohnFlux> at the moment I'm restarting the whole build system that we have
 [06:46:24]  <daniels> yeesh.  just run make to kick the build off again?
 [06:46:39]  <daniels> though if it's the build system i think it is, good luck ...
 [06:46:48]  <JohnFlux> it's the build system from hell
 [06:47:04]  <daniels> yep, sounds likethe same.
 [06:47:23]  <JohnFlux> we have 3 seperate build systems in parallel for different architectures
 [06:47:29]  <daniels> \o/
 [06:47:35]  <daniels> (really lunch now)
 [06:47:40]  <JohnFlux> :)
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[07:15:34]  <JohnFlux> daniels: it works :_D
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[07:24:17]  <JohnFlux> the sis300/sis_draw.c  uses KdMarkSync   which seems to have been renamed to kaaMarkSync
 [07:24:26]  <JohnFlux> afaics, sis300/sis_draw.c  cannot compile
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[07:55:19]  <daniels> JohnFlux: don't bother building any DDXes other than Xsgx, Xfbdev, and Xephyr
 [07:56:47]  <JohnFlux^ I can't get it to run :-D 
[07:56:51]  <JohnFlux> it does compile now though
[07:57:05]  <JohnFlux> just says Modes not found.  is there any debug output anywhere?
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[07:57:51]  <JohnFlux> Warning: mode not found, using default
 [07:58:01]  <JohnFlux> error: Invalid argument
 [07:58:25]  <daniels> is this Xsgx or Xfbdev?
 [07:59:38]  <JohnFlux> both
 [07:59:59]  <JohnFlux> daniels: they both give the same error
 [08:00:17]  <daniels> mode not found sounds like you just need to add your current display mode to hw/kdrive/src/kmodes.c or similar
 [08:00:46]  <JohnFlux^ does kdrive produce a log anywhere btw?
 [08:01:02]  <Amaranth> I thought you were trying to convince people to stop using kdrive
 [08:01:23]  <JohnFlux^ my plan is to switch to the latest version kdrive
 [08:01:27]  <JohnFlux> and then switch to xorg
 [08:01:34]  <JohnFlux> that's my shakey roadmap :_)
 [08:01:37]  <daniels> Amaranth: xorg needs to get smaller first
 [08:01:42]  <daniels> JohnFlux: nope, just what's on stderr
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[09:20:14]  <anderco> whot: what do you think of but #9262?
 [09:20:25]  <anderco> could you take a look at the attached patch?
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[09:51:22]  <dr-xorg> hi.
 [09:51:23]  <dr-xorg> I try to build the drm-gem branch of drm (lib + modules) but git-describe seems to fail with:
 [09:51:23]  <dr-xorg> "fatal: Not a valid object name HEAD"
 [09:51:23]  <dr-xorg> is a specific git version required there or some other non-obvious conditions to make it build ?
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[10:06:14]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I got the mode thing working by commenting out chunks in fddev.c :-D
 [10:06:27]  <JohnFlux> although now it can't find default font 'fixed'
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[10:43:54]  <it-s> anybody home?
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[10:47:44]  <glisse> it-s: E.T. is certainly home
 [10:50:08]  <JohnFlux> didn't he die in the end?
 [10:50:30]  <JohnFlux> or did i just wish he did
 [10:50:42]  <glisse^ you are one of the people who were too sad to watch until the end !
 [10:51:10]  <it-s> oh goody :) life on Mars!
 [10:51:21]  <it-s> does anyone know about MPX?
 [10:51:51]  <b0le^ what about it?
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[10:52:58]  <it-s> I'm from kdegames and we were wandering how can we use it in our games?
 [10:54:33]  <it-s> and, if possible, if someone could do a quick presentation on MPX at our meeting next month
 [10:56:16]  <b0le^ I think you would want to talk to whot or daniels
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[11:02:15]  <daniels> JohnFlux: for the font thing, --enable-builtins
 [11:02:49]  <it-s> b0le: ah, right. thank you for the information
 [11:03:01]  <it-s> whot: ping
 [11:03:04]  <it-s> daniels: ping
 [11:03:05]  <daniels> JohnFlux: or maybe --enable-builtin-fonts
 [11:03:35]  <daniels> it-s: where's your meeting? i'm in finland, and whot's in australia, and i'm not travelling during july ...
 [11:03:36]  <b0le+ and if you haven't already seen this, you may want to look - http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/?q=tutorial (and if you are looking for more example code, I have written a small test paint app that uses mpx)
 [11:04:05]  <it-s> daniels: it's on IRC #kdegames
 [11:04:11]  <it-s> :)
 [11:04:20]  <daniels^ ah.  in that case, that would be a lot easier, i guess.
 [11:05:47]  <it-s^ the meeting is July 1st/2008 20:00 UTC.
 [11:06:22]  <it-s> but, I don't want to waste your time, so I'll make sure we have the max attendance and then I'll come back to reconfirm
 [11:06:24]  <daniels> that would more likely be me than whot, as that's something like 6:30am for him.
 [11:06:36]  <daniels> it-s: no problem.  drop me an email, daniel@fooishbar.org, but i make no guarantees.
 [11:06:48]  <it-s^ thank you SO MUCH!
 [11:06:54]  <daniels> np
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[11:07:50]  <JohnFlux> daniels: copying across an existing font directory worked, so I think another solution is to try to work out how to get the build system to install the fonts
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[11:14:00]  <daniels> JohnFlux: really, you do just want --enable-builtin-fonts
 [11:14:03]  <daniels> it's the default in master
 [11:14:16]  <daniels> no-one uses core fonts and they're an unbelievable world of pain.
 [11:14:46]  <JohnFlux^ thanks
 [11:16:19]  <daniels> np
 [11:16:28]  <JohnFlux^ at the moment i'm getting a crash in kaaWaitSync  in our Xsgx, but no crash in Xfbdev
 [11:17:10]  <JohnFlux> hmm, actually it might be font related - backtrace mentions ServerBitsFromGlyph 
[11:17:38]  <JohnFlux> hmm actually that might be a mouse cursor glyph :-D
 [11:19:31]  <daniels> tbh it's hard to help too much further without your code, especially as you're the last ones using kaa instead of exa ...
 [11:19:41]  <daniels> (note that xfbdev doesn't do accel.)
 [11:20:21]  <JohnFlux> :)
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[11:36:50]  <dagb> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "C-Media USB Headphone Set" (type: KEYBOARD) ?? 
[11:38:10]  <daniels^ cat /proc/bus/input/devices
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[11:42:06]  <maniac103> dagb: headset with skype buttons or similar?
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[12:11:01]  <caro> tilman: ping
 [12:11:15]  <tilman> pong
 [12:11:44]  <caro^ I've seen your comment on #edevelop
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[12:12:05]  <caro> do you have an idea of what we could do that cleanly ?
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[12:45:46]  <Thunderbird> hi
 [12:46:18]  <Thunderbird> I have got a question about an issue we are having in wine and for which we have a solution in mind but we need to know how feasible it is
 [12:46:45]  <Thunderbird> in short wine emulates nearly all virtual memory on startup in order to emulate the win32 memory layout
 [12:47:23]  <Thunderbird> in the end there is not that much left for native libraries (in total 300-400MB or so)
 [12:47:43]  <Thunderbird> these days this is causing issues especially for opengl drivers
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[12:48:08]  <Thunderbird> right now fglrx and in some cases also mesa are suffering from this and can fall e.g. back to software or have strange issues
 [12:48:42]  <Thunderbird> we are thinking about overriding memory allocation functions used by libGL.so and basically provide libGL.so with 'win32' memory
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[12:51:27]  <glisse> Thunderbird: i don't understand what yu mean by emulating virtual memory
 [12:52:17]  <Thunderbird> err, reserves
 [12:52:45]  <glisse^ how do you reserve it ?
 [12:54:10]  <ajax> mmap with map_fixed, one assumes.
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[12:54:20]  <DrNick> and MAP_NORESERVE
 [12:54:27]  <ajax> (win32 emulation: not doomed, not at all)
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[12:56:13]  <Thunderbird> I'm not sure exactly how it is done as it is rather complex but I see traces of MAP_NORESERVE stuff using mmap
 [12:56:40]  <glisse^ do you really need to reserve this memory ?
 [12:56:58]  <Thunderbird> yes it is needed
 [12:57:26]  <glisse> i am glad i forget everythings i was teach on win32
 [12:57:27]  <glisse> :)
 [12:58:10]  <Thunderbird> windows expects certain things in certain regions
 [12:58:21]  <Thunderbird> I'm not the guru in this area (only Alexandre knows this stuff very well)
 [12:58:24]  <glisse^ a dirty trick would be to intercept malloc from glibc when loading libGL but with the way dri play i am not even sure you can trap dri allocation
 [12:58:47]  <Thunderbird> that's what we are thinking about and we don't know whether it will work
 [12:58:56]  <glisse> more over when memory start to popup it will hurt if there is no more virtual space
 [12:59:00]  <Thunderbird> we would rely on dri, fglrx and nvidia driver quirks
 [12:59:08]  <ajax> trapping malloc isn't that hard.
 [12:59:29]  <Thunderbird> but who guarantees that everyone uses malloc and not something else?
 [12:59:31]  <DrNick> it is if the library is built to not allow it
 [12:59:46]  <DrNick> of course, that only really matters with glibc itself
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[12:59:59]  <ajax> Thunderbird: what else would you use?  no one allcates textures on the heap, that'd be insane.
 [13:00:10]  <ajax> (stack, not heap.  d'oh)
 [13:00:28]  <Thunderbird> ok
 [13:00:34]  <Thunderbird> do you expect issues in case of plain dri?
 [13:01:08]  <ajax> we don't depend on the details of how malloc is implemented, just that it work.
 [13:01:15]  <glisse> i think the problematic case would be memory manager trying to stuff on virtual mapping
 [13:01:31]  <glisse> to do stuff*
 [13:01:53]  <ajax^ the kernel doesn't know whether a request was satisfied from glibc malloc or from something else.
 [13:02:20]  <ajax> i mean.  it could know, but the drm doesn't distinguish, it just wants virtual addresses and doesn't care whose they are.
 [13:02:32]  ***  egbert is now known as egbert_away.
[13:02:34]  <glisse> ajax: so if the kernel memory manager try to map a bo it will fail ?
 [13:03:23]  <glisse> Thunderbird: one clean solution is to have a graphic server which is a normal X application, your win32 emulator then just send draw cmd to the server, easy ain't it ;)
 [13:03:27]  <ajax> if the kernel adds an mmap to the user's address space it'll do so somewhere that it fits.  which, presumably, is outside the region wine already reserved
 [13:04:31]  <glisse> win32 is limited to 2Go or somethings like, isn't it ?
 [13:04:56]  <ajax> you frenchies and your octets...
 [13:04:57]  <Thunderbird> I believe we reserver all the 4GB (with some exceptions somehow to keep some memory around for other things)
 [13:05:13]  <ajax> win32 gets to most of 3.5G or so i thought
 [13:05:20]  <Thunderbird+ can do more than 2Go, yeah 3.5 or so
 [13:05:27]  <Thunderbird> but it isn't set to that by default
 [13:05:57]  <Thunderbird> brb
 [13:06:05]  <glisse> ajax: we are trying to impose french with marcheu but so far the plan seems to be a complet failure :)
 [13:08:17]  <glisse> so with no more virtual memory address space i think wine will have serious trouble with gpu memory manager
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[13:19:20]  <Thunderbird> right now we have a lot of angry fglrx users who are affected by the VM issue and there is some other ati issue but I suspect that ati is performing some hacks which don't work anymore (a hack for a different issue than VM)
 [13:19:24]  <dagb> I know there has been a push to at least make the xorg.conf file optional. And with the intel driver, I can indeed get my monitor lit without xorg.conf. But neither keyboard or mouse defaults to the correct mapping. And if I add a partial xorg.conf with just the input devices, the xserver complains and requires me to add a device section, a screen section and so on.
[13:19:55]  <dagb> Is there a plan to allow "partial" xorg.conf files, or is hal the only way?
 [13:21:13]  <Thunderbird> or just try to create the sections but keep them as empty as possible
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[13:21:54]  <ajax> dagb: partials already (more or less) work
 [13:22:32]  <dagb^ really? Ah. This is 1.4.2. Would that explain why the server requires a device and screen section?
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[13:23:06]  <ajax> some stuff got better in that regard between 1.4 and now, but probably not enough.
 [13:27:07]  <dagb> hm. and 1.5 requires mesa 7.1, which requires drm 2.3.1.
[13:32:47]  <dberkholz> ajax: could i get access to fiddle with the planet config and try to get vignatti's and my feeds working again?
 [13:34:15]  <ajax> be careful what you wish for...
 [13:34:29]  <ajax> but sure
 [13:35:02]  <ajax> annarchy# getfacl /srv/planet.freedesktop.org/planetfdo/config.ini | grep db
 [13:35:05]  <ajax> user:dberkholz:rw-
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[13:41:15]  <dberkholz> ajax: cool, thanks. would you like help with the general planet admin as well (iow, should i add my name to the bottom of the page)?
 [13:41:58]  <ajax> i am happy to divest myself of ownership of that problem
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[13:42:12]  <dberkholz> ajax: ah, so not just add but replace entirely?
 [13:42:23]  <ajax> i should probably make a group for it first though so i don't have to screw with setfacl all the time
 [13:43:16]  <dberkholz> vignatti: i just switched yours and my feeds to the atom version. hopefully that will work, guess we'll see soon
 [13:46:31]  <ajax> (waiting for ldap to propagate)
 [13:46:52]  <vignatti> dberkholz: cool. tkx
 [13:49:15]  <ajax> bz's "change multiple bugs at once" doesn't have a field for blocks/blockedby
 [13:49:22]  <ajax> so awesome.
 [13:51:27]  <Thunderbird> does libGL use mmap or some XMalloc?
 [13:52:29]  <ajax> Xalloc, which calls malloc under the skin.
 [13:52:43]  <Thunderbird> ok
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[14:01:45]  <drago01> ajax: what happend to the 7.4 tracker?
 [14:02:19]  <drago01> no more bugs? you must have cheated!
 [14:02:24]  <ajax> of course i cheated.
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[14:02:40]  <ajax> software engineering consists of little else besides cheating.
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[14:02:52]  <ajax> and deleting stuff.
 [14:02:56]  <ajax> and drinking.  don't forget drinking.
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[14:03:54]  <stillunknown> I wonder how many people refuse to write hacks (on a large scale).
 [14:04:16]  <Lrrr> I'd say drinking is more closely related to the "bug triaging" subtask.
 [14:05:30]  <ajax> the point is i'm now well and truly done with caring what other people think are blockers (despite that i put most of those blockers on the list in the first place)
 [14:05:38]  <ajax> so i may as well not lie about it
 [14:05:54]  <ajax> also, this way phoronix doesn't write snarky bullshit about how we didn't even fix all the bugs.
 [14:06:02]  <ajax> OF COURSE WE DIDN'T THE BUGS ARE INFINITE
 [14:06:39]  <Thunderbird> the site sucks but somehow he seems to get a lot of hits with all the crap he is telling
 [14:06:50]  <ajax> it's like this:
 [14:06:52]  <ajax> people are dumb
 [14:06:52]  <Thunderbird> and creating news out already known facts
 [14:06:57]  <ajax> and they like being dumb in large groups
 [14:07:29]  <ajax> so if you give them a place to convene, they will.
 [14:07:39]  <ajax> like pigeons on a flat surface
 [14:08:03]  <stillunknown> The best news is when someone made a commit about cleaning up some whitespace issue ;-)
 [14:08:06]  <Lrrr> With all the ads he has there, it must not take that much hit to make a living.
 [14:10:43]  <Lrrr> <lurk>
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[14:12:19]  <drago01> there is even a paid service you get no adds and "one page articles" (???)
 [14:13:35]  <Lrrr> I've got a questions for you graphic driver programmers?
 [14:15:02]  <ajax> okay,
 [14:15:39]  <Lrrr> How did you learn you trade?  Are there books for that or that's mostly experience kept up to date?
 [14:15:39]  <drago01^ just ask (why do people keep asking if they are allowed to ask a question? ... this would be a question too)
 [14:15:58]  <ajax> i pretty much just started doing it.
 [14:16:47]  <ajax> if you understand what *foo = bar; does in C then everything else is just learning the jargon.
 [14:16:48]  <stillunknown> It helps to understand opengl, if you want to understand 3d engines.
 [14:16:49]  <Thunderbird> btw our beloved phoronix has an irc channel on freenode now, so he could be lurking here too
 [14:16:53]  <ajax> (handwaving furiously)
 [14:18:01]  <Lrrr> drago01: Asking to ask a question is a form of respect.  They don't want to annoy they people they are asking questions too.
 [14:18:24]  <Lrrr> It's silly because I'm in a #generic_programming_channel myself and get annoyed when people ask-to-ask.
 [14:19:42]  <drago01^ yeah but if its annoying/stupid you won't got a response and thats it ... ;)
 [14:20:22]  <Lrrr^ Yeah, don't tell me.  I know that.
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[14:23:46]  <Lrrr> I've got some OpenGL books @ home.  Should read that.
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[14:25:51]  <vignatti> dberkholz: hi planet admin :)
 [14:26:11]  <vignatti> so if I want to add my southpark face there, what I need to do?
 [14:27:54]  <Lrrr> As anyone made concrete step for switching the wiki away from MoinMoin?
 [14:28:16]  <ajax> dberkholz: oh, yeah.  /srv/planet.fd.o is now group writable, and you're in the group.  have fun!
 [14:31:56]  <Lrrr> guess not.
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[15:01:30]  <jg> anyone know what library is a good way to get an image from a file into memory?  (e.g. .bmp, .xpm, etc...)
 [15:02:10]  <ds> libpng
 [15:02:59]  <ds> or gdk_pixbuf
 [15:04:05]  <Thunderbird> or sdl, it all depends on what you want on your need
 [15:04:13]  <Thunderbird> some formats are too easy to read
 [15:04:28]  <Thunderbird> e.g. tga, pnm
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[15:08:06]  <dookdook> is there a function call that gets information on screen refresh rate?  and is there a way to change the resolution from a function call?
 [15:08:29]  <cjb^ google xrandr.
 [15:09:41]  <dookdook^ thanks.  and getting screen refresh rate?
 [15:10:38]  <cjb> it's in the xrandr output
 [15:10:54]  <dookdook> oh, sorry, thank you
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[15:14:39]  <wingo-tp> hey folks. i'm trying to write a compositor with gl, running on intel. currently this does not seem like a good idea, given that I have to do LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 to get TFP to work. if I jhbuild X, will things be any different? (will they be better? :)
 [15:14:41]  <wingo-tp> I'm currently using the things that come with fedora 9.
 [15:18:08]  <ajax^ tfp only works in indirect contexts in the open drivers.
 [15:18:13]  <ajax> fact of life, man.
 [15:18:50]  <ajax> that's why glXCreateContext() has a boolean at the end for direct or not.
 [15:18:53]  <wingo-tp> yeeps. well, thanks for the fact ;)
 [15:18:56]  <dberkholz> vignatti: yay, it worked!
 [15:19:15]  <ajax> it's being worked on but it's not there yet.
 [15:19:49]  <vignatti> dberkholz: free beers to you man
 [15:20:05]  <dberkholz^ gimme a png and i'll put it in the right spot
 [15:20:57]  <vignatti^ where people usually does it, you know?
 [15:21:21]  <dberkholz^ making the southpark png in the first place? i don't remember the link, you should be able to find it on google
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[15:43:19]  <vignatti> dberkholz: http://people.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/vignatti-southpark.png
 [15:46:08]  <dberkholz> ajax: need group w on /srv/planet.freedesktop.org/output/faces please
 [15:46:20]  <dberkholz> or can i do that myself?
 [15:46:28]  <dberkholz> i don't know acl stuff at all.
 [15:46:31]  <ajax> i thought i already did that.
 [15:46:44]  <dberkholz> `getfacl /srv/planet.freedesktop.org/output/faces` shows group::r-x
 [15:47:04]  <dberkholz> and i can't touch anything there
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[15:48:26]  <ajax> what the hell man.  chmod should have fixed that
 [15:48:30]  <ajax> fixed now i think?
 [15:48:45]  <dberkholz^ yep, good
 [15:49:35]  <dberkholz> vignatti: with luck you'll have a face in a few minutes.
 [15:49:55]  <vignatti> nice :)
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[16:00:14]  <Lrrr> funny hackergotchi
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[16:05:14]  <pjones> ajax: chmod just acts as a mask, it doesn't alter the acl itself.
 [16:05:49]  <ajax> hate.
 [16:05:59]  <pjones> mmm, hate.  so tasty.
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[16:13:20]  <ajax> woo, new server and mesa bits actually work.
 [16:13:25]  <ajax> i have to admit i'm surprised by this.
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[16:18:34]  <warren> I'm trying to have part of LTSP call setxkbmap to set the keyboard layout.  I have exported to it DISPLAY and XAUTHORITY environment variables, but it cannot connect to the display.  Anything else obviously I am missing?
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[16:19:08]  <warren> (I suppose I should be using the xkl* library interfaces directly, but I have some strange requirements...)
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[16:43:25]  <pjones> warren: xauth?
 [16:43:43]  <pjones> nevermind.
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[16:56:57]  <warren> strace of setxkbmap run myself from the command line gets to:
 [16:56:59]  <warren> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path=@/tmp/.X11-unix/X0}, 110) = 0
 [16:57:13]  <warren> but it doesn't do this when run through a C wrapper
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[17:07:50]  <dberkholz> is there any particular recommendation for a driver for a usb touchscreen? i've been trying to use evtouch, but i'm curious whether there's something better
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[17:34:51]  <dfjoerg> I'm looking for suggestions what could make -intel slow on redraw
 [17:35:17]  <dfjoerg> problem is seen with both 1.4.0.9x (forget exactly version) and 1.3.0
 [17:35:28]  <dfjoerg> on netbsd -current and I have reports for the same problem from 4.0
 [17:35:36]  <dfjoerg> both with and without DRI
 [17:36:08]  <dfjoerg> e.g. when moving an xterm around, partial drawing occurs, playing video with xv is notacable lagging
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[17:36:57]  <dfjoerg> I'm running out of ideas what could be the culprit
 [17:37:35]  <dfjoerg> I should add: both XAA and EXA show this, e.g. in general xf86-video-vesa is only slightly worse
 [17:39:26]  <drago01_> warren: how do you call it in your C wrapper?
 [17:40:09]  <drago01_> if you want the env vars to be passed you have to use execle()
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[17:47:56]  <svu> if I deleted some file by mistake (in my local git work area), how would I recover it from git?
 [17:48:15]  * svu feels so stupid with git, so different from cvs
 [17:48:20]  <saschahl^ just: git checkout file
 [17:48:21]  <fredrikh+ you can check it out with git checkout
 [17:48:31]  <svu> thanks, I'll try
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[18:13:17]  <warren> I am using execve() with an appropriate evnp
 [18:13:43]  <warren> in the car ride pjones suggested selinux might be blocking it since I was running it from /tmp
 [18:13:45]  <warren> but that wasn't it
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[18:21:43]  <warren> hmm, I'm not exporting *something*
[18:21:53]  <warren> no X client works through this wrapper
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[19:31:30]  <agd5f> can anyone follow bug 16086?
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[19:35:44]  <CosmicPenguin> barely
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[19:40:04]  <CosmicPenguin> agd5f: it kind of sounds like the ACPI script is turning on DPMS
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[19:51:17]  <agd5f> CosmicPenguin: yeah, I sort of get it, but his problem seems to be changing, lockups, then keyboard and/or mouse turning or not turning on the display
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[20:02:06]  <CosmicPenguin> agd5f: I agree, it isn't the best bug report ever
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[01:10:01]  <dberkholz> agd5f: having some issues on 6.9 with rs480. running xrandr seems to detect the 2 monitors as identical (available resolutions etc) where they're actually different.
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[01:13:34]  <dberkholz> agd5f: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/Xorg.0.log.rs480 if that helps.
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[06:06:22]  <wilku> hello
 [06:06:29]  <wilku> I have a question regarding X11, I am using the function XSetDeviceMode and apparantely, when the device can't handle the mode I want it to have the XServer throws an error. Is there a way to check the available modes of the device in X11? Or a way to handle the error that it won't destroy the whole application
 [06:06:43]  <wilku> ?
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[06:24:07]  <whot> wilku: IIRC no.
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[11:58:32]  <KrimReaper> can any1 help me???
 [11:59:09]  <KrimReaper> i am having trouble with using xlib
 [12:07:11]  <KrimReaper> so no one out of 122 people wants to help me ?
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[12:26:18]  <agd5f> dberkholz: known bug.  the rs480 uses the same gpio register for both monitor, but different pins for each head.  I've yet to find out the pin setup for the other head
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[13:20:19]  <dberkholz> agd5f: ah, damn. guess i'll have to use fglrx then.
 [13:20:48]  <agd5f^ does ddcprobe work for you?
 [13:22:04]  <agd5f> if so could you use airlied/mjg's hacked up vbetool to and run ddcprobe?
 [13:22:06]  <agd5f> http://people.freedesktop.org/~airlied/xresprobe-mjg59-0.4.21.tar.gz
 [13:22:53]  <agd5f> with the monitor attached to the head that's not currently getting ddc
 [13:23:02]  <agd5f> send me the output?
 [13:23:34]  <dberkholz^ i can't change the heads, it's a remote box i won't have access to till next week
 [13:23:50]  <agd5f> ok
 [13:24:11]  <agd5f> well, you might try ddcprobe anyway
 [13:24:16]  <dberkholz^ here's ddcprobe: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/ddcprobe.txt
 [13:24:34]  <agd5f^ d'oh!
 [13:25:26]  <dberkholz> should it be fine if X is running when i do that?
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[13:27:47]  <dberkholz> eh, no difference either way
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[13:59:03]  <gustaf1> how do I get the ascii code from a xcb_key_press_event_t?
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[20:13:14]  <Guest53311> can someone tell me y my window wont cover the entire screen when i make the resolution the same as the root window ???
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[20:16:59]  <KrimReaper> please i am just looking for some answers so i can get going on this so can someone help me ?????
 [20:21:28]  <agd5f^ ask your question and if someone knows the answer they'll answer
 [20:22:07]  <KrimReaper> well i am trying to create a window that is fullscreen that is not movable and such
 [20:23:01]  <KrimReaper> the problem is when i make the window the size of my root window my kde toolbar is still showing and my window is bordered
 [20:23:52]  <KrimReaper> so if any1 knows how to do this please help .... I'm just using xlib
 [20:24:21]  <jg> KrimReaper: if you use Xlib directly, then you are responsible for conforming to the ICCCM and EWMH conventions......
 [20:25:31]  <KrimReaper> can you explain a little more please ?
 [20:27:25]  <KrimReaper> i thought i wouldnt have to use the ICCCM because i was just creating a fullscreen window and going from there with glx to do some graphics
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[20:28:48]  <jg> KrimReaper: by default, windows get reparented and framed by window managers.
 [20:29:30]  <jg> so by doing the simple thing, you are getting what you should be expecting; but if you don't want window decoration, you'll have to add hints so the window manager has a chance to figure out what you want.
 [20:30:16]  <KrimReaper> okay how do i do that exactly ?
 [20:30:54]  <jg^ no clue off hand; in general, using a toolkit is the right way to go.
 [20:31:29]  <KrimReaper> well i wouldnt mind learning cause i have all the time in the world
 [20:31:54]  <jg> xlib is primarily for toolkit developers.  if you want to do it yourself, you get to go read the ICCCM and EWMH docs.
 [20:32:05]  <jg> you'll be setting some properties on the window.
 [20:35:57]  <KrimReaper> well i never bothered to read icccm because it was only for if the client was on another computer
 [20:37:02]  <KrimReaper> but i should be able to get away with just using one or the other since they build on each other right ?
 [20:38:54]  <jg> no, the ICCCM  and EWMH documents are how clients talk to window managers and vice versa; it has nothing to do with whether a client is local or remote.
 [20:39:07]  <jg> the EWMH is built on top of the ICCCM.
 [20:40:26]  <KrimReaper> okay this is the kind of info i have been looking for
 [20:40:27]  <KrimReaper> ty
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[06:15:34]  <theglass_> hi
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[06:20:52]  <theglass_> what's the xorg/driver/xf86-video-mga's xf86-video-mga-1.9.100 branch exactly for?
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[06:26:41]  <stillunknown> theglass_: It's a tag,
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[06:28:48]  <theglass_> oh
 [06:28:52]  <theglass_> right
 [06:30:59]  <theglass_> and what is it for?
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[06:31:29]  <tilman> it's a tag for the 1.9.100 release
 [06:31:45]  <theglass_> ..
 [06:31:49]  <drago01> mjg59: ping
 [06:32:02]  <tilman> theglass_: maybe you're asking the wrong question? ;)
 [06:32:14]  <tilman> 1.9.xxx added randr-1.2 support
 [06:32:22]  <tilman> but it's somewhat broken
 [06:32:29]  <theglass_> thanks
 [06:32:32]  <theglass_> tilman
 [06:32:38]  <theglass_> you're still human :)
 [06:37:53]  <stillunknown> tilman: pushing it to master might help ;-)
 [06:39:28]  <mjg59> drago01: Yo
 [06:39:41]  <tilman> stillunknown: it's broken too badly
 [06:40:03]  <stillunknown^ Then why the release tags?
 [06:40:27]  <tilman> from releasing the randr-1.2 branch i learned about the brokenness
 [06:40:42]  <stillunknown> What kind of brokenness?
 [06:40:53]  <theglass_> stillunknown
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[06:42:05]  <tilman> stillunknown: being forced to use sw cursors in a dualhead setup (since there's only one hardware cursor), and a bunch of weird issues i could never reproduce ;)
 [06:43:04]  <theglass_> can I still use the mga_hal module with the xorg driver?
 [06:43:27]  <stillunknown> tilman: wow, dualhead and one hw cursor, talk about being stupid.
 [06:43:27]  <theglass_> xf86-video-mga-1.4.8 tag this time
 [06:44:03]  <tilman> mmh, in theory
 [06:44:16]  <tilman> you'll have to hack it to work though
 [06:44:34]  <theglass_> yeah, I've noticed it
 [06:45:07]  <theglass_> would it be worth to?
 [06:45:25]  <tilman> what do you need?
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[06:45:49]  <tilman> if you need g550 dual dvi support, mga_hal is the only way
 [06:46:26]  <theglass_> probably too
 [06:47:06]  <theglass_> does it include any other interesting feature?
 [06:47:35]  <tilman> tvout, i think
 [06:47:53]  <tilman> oh, and mergedfb
 [06:48:09]  <theglass_> i remember loading it too with the xfree driver
 [06:48:09]  <tilman> not sure whether the pain involved with getting it to work are worth it ;p
 [06:48:20]  <theglass_> and graphically speaking?
 [06:48:31]  <theglass_> ah
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[07:20:39]  <drago01> mjg59: tryed to disable autorepeat for the volume keys using xset seems not to work like it should ... it no longer keeeps sending "keypress" but after the first keypress no release event is sent to clients
 [07:27:40]  <mjg59^ Yes, I think the server gets unhappy
 [07:27:56]  <mjg59> Since it's never seen a keyup from the kernel, it assumes that it's still held down
 [07:28:07]  <mjg59> Disabling autorepeat just means that it won't send more of them
 [07:28:09]  <mjg59> (IIRC)
 [07:29:06]  <drago01^ ok ...any other idea how to get such keys working?
 [07:30:36]  <mjg59> Hack one of either X or the kernel to assume that they can't depend on keyup from that key
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[08:15:40]  <drago01> mjg59: from reading the code seems like the hack hast to be added to atkbd_interrupt in atkdb.c correct?
 [08:16:37]  <drago01> if the last code = the  same send release event?
 [08:16:46]  <mjg59^ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-keyboard/+bug/20681
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[08:19:29]  <drago01> mjg59: ok, thx will test yor patch
 [08:19:34]  <drago01> *your
 [08:20:39]  <mjg59^ Depends on kbd, obv. If you're using evdev then it'll be different.
 [08:21:21]  <drago01^ I am using kdb for keyboard (evdev only for mouse; ajax disabled evdev keyboard because it was "broken")
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[08:29:57]  <drago01> mjg59: thx, it works
 [08:30:29]  <drago01> now we need something for upstream
 [08:31:53]  <drago01> I can even hold the volume key and the volume keeps changing until I release the key
 [08:32:00]  <mjg59^ Impressive :)
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[11:57:21]  <KrimReaper> Is any1 firmiliar with the XSetWMName function that can help me ?
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[12:09:43]  <KrimReaper> i am trying to follow the  icccm and the what i have to do to my client is to use the XSetWMName function but i dont know what to do with the XSetTextProperty ???
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[14:47:32]  <dagb> I have a dual-head setup. (xrandr). Flash movies in firefox fullscreens over both heads, as do firefox. mplayer fullscreens over both heads, but shows the actual content on one head only, but the wrong head. (The other head goes all black.) Is there a way with the extended desktop to have applications to fullscreen stuff one one head only?
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[14:48:35]  <jbarnes> dagb: I think the video overlay will only target one head
 [14:48:42]  <jbarnes> if you use x11 output you'll probably get it all
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[14:49:20]  <dagb> what would I need to do get what I want?
 [14:49:37]  <dagb> would xinerama solve anything for me?
 [14:51:20]  <dagb> is it xinerama which provides DISPLAYs :0.0 and :0.1 on a dual-head config?
 [14:52:51]  <dagb> and do drivers need to support xinerama for it to work?
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[03:05:48]  <geaaru> hi at all, i installed git version of xorg-server and git version of radeon video driver and drm... my video card is an ati X200M and lucky i can use
 [03:06:21]  <geaaru> compiz now, but when i try to use dualhead there is a part of the second screen that isn't refresh correctly.
 [03:06:45]  <geaaru> could be a limit of the video cards and of the 3d desktop size?
 [03:06:48]  <geaaru> thanks in advance
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[03:12:55]  <airlied> geaaru: yes there is a 2048 texture size limit..
 [03:14:19]  <geaaru^ ah ok, thanks for the info. But this is relative to my ati video card or other?
 [03:14:58]  <airlied^ yup video card..
 [03:16:10]  <geaaru> k thank you very very much
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[03:30:47]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:49:29]  <JohnFlux> Morning all
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[05:24:28]  <drago01_> daniels: ping
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[05:25:53]  <daniels> drago01: hi
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[05:37:12]  <drago01> daniels: anything against merging this patch http://rafb.net/p/PD2C8p58.html from mjg59 ? with it my volume keys are working
 [05:38:53]  <mjg59^ Daniel described it as making babies cry
 [05:39:08]  <mjg59> Best might be to punt it to the mailing list and see if anyone has any better suggestions
 [05:39:41]  <drago01^ ok
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[05:42:09]  <daniels> yeah, it's ... yeesh.
 [05:42:42]  <daniels> it might well be necessary though, and kbd is already a cesspit, so it's not like it makes it overly worse, just less deterministic
 [05:43:24]  <maniac103> is 146 some magic value in key event processing?
 [05:43:43]  <drago01> everything > 146 are not "normal keys"
 [05:45:02]  <daniels> iow, magic value, yes
 [05:45:20]  <mjg59^ I'd guess evdev will show the same behaviour, though
 [05:47:03]  <daniels> right, which is why it would be ideal to have it done by the kernel
 [05:47:21]  <mjg59> I'm kind of in favour of the kernel reporting the actual hardware behaviour
 [05:47:46]  <mjg59> At least, I don't have any faith in our ability to sell it to upstream
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[05:50:35]  <daniels> the point is that we have to do fucked-up hardware-specific hacks _somewhere_.  if we're going to do that, why not do it as close to the hardware as possible, instead of behind abstraction layers that progressively remove our ability to determine which hardware we're running on?
 [05:51:54]  <drago01^ what about a way of configuring it for specific keys and let hal do it? (ie. add it to the keymap stuff)
 [05:52:26]  <mjg59> Because the kernel response is going to be that this is how the hardware behaves, some people might want the functionality and consumers should filter as appropriate
 [05:53:00]  <mjg59> What /could/ probably be added to the kernel would be flags to control whether a key autorepeats or not
 [05:53:02]  <daniels^ for the tty reporting, i can see that.  for evdev, this goes against every principle of its interface deisgn.
 [05:53:39]  <mjg59> Then we could just bodge stuff in at boot time
 [05:53:42]  <mjg59> Or X startup
 [05:54:35]  <daniels> so what does everyone else using evdev do?
 [05:55:12]  <daniels> bear in mind that evdev was designed to be like x's input (ha ha, but seriously).  it should be abstract, it should be discoverable, and it should be directly usable by anyone without ps/2-like hacks.
 [05:55:18]  <daniels> this falls under the category of ps/2-like hacks.
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[05:59:05]  <mjg59> All I can say is that there's no realistic chance of having a default policy for this in the kernel
 [06:01:05]  <daniels> what's the practical difference between having this patch in kbd_drv, and its moral equivalent in the kernel?
 [06:01:35]  <mjg59> One is achievable. The other isn't.
 [06:01:45]  <airlied> I think you could push it upstream.
 [06:01:53]  <airlied> the kernel should expose a standard key interface
 [06:01:59]  <airlied> and the keys should all act the same..
 [06:02:14]  <daniels^ evdev, yes
 [06:02:14]  <mjg59+ The kernel /does/ expose a standard key interface. On keydown, it reports keydown. On keyup, it reports keyup.
 [06:02:32]  <airlied^ but on keyup it doesn't .. because the hw doesn't.
 [06:02:36]  <airlied> the key is up
 [06:02:37]  <daniels> mjg59: for the tty layer, you're correct.  for evdev, it's more abstract, and isn't supposed to be a 1:1 hw:event mapping.
 [06:02:57]  <daniels> as dave says, it's supposed to usefully represent keys, not usefully represent the ps/2 wire protocol.
 [06:03:14]  <mjg59^ But you end up with working hardware now reporting keydown/keyup/keydown/keyup rather than keydown/keyrepeat/keyup
 [06:03:33]  <daniels> cool.
 [06:03:42]  <daniels> as long as we're putting the patch into x, that's the end result, anyway.
 [06:03:58]  <mjg59> Right. But putting it in the kernel breaks any consumers that want the latter behaviour.
 [06:04:01]  <daniels> i'm not merging this patch or anything like it into evdev until someone admits that the concept of evdev is a complete failure.
 [06:04:07]  <mjg59> So it would need to be runtime configurable
 [06:04:10]  <arekm> hehe
 [06:04:15]  <daniels> mjg59: as opposed to just breaking any consumers that want keys to be reported.
 [06:04:24]  <mjg59> And if it's runtime configurable, then nobody's going to want to put a default policy in the kernel
 [06:04:40]  <daniels> so, don't make it runtime configurable.  life's tough for high keys.
 [06:04:49]  <daniels> how many keys act like that, anyway? i thought it was just hangul?
 [06:04:58]  <airlied> really can we list the evdev interface consumers?
 [06:05:20]  <mjg59> Volume keys on drag01's machine, eject and hibernate keys on Dell laptops
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[06:05:34]  <mjg59> High keys work fine on my HP
 [06:06:05]  <daniels> airlied: if it's an abstract interface, then it's an abstract interface.  if it's not, then let me punch through and see every fucking detail that was previously hidden.
 [06:06:19]  <mjg59> The behaviour's also PS/2 specific
 [06:06:32]  <daniels^ so you're saying we need some kind of table listing machine-specific quirks.  that's sure to be unpopular with the kernel team.
 [06:06:53]  <mjg59^ Ha.
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[06:07:41]  <mjg59> daniels: Well, I can look into the possibility of doing this in the ps2 driver.
 [06:07:46]  <daniels^ that'd be aces, thankyou
 [06:08:06]  <airlied> is usb not bongtastic
 [06:08:08]  <airlied> ?
 [06:08:22]  <mjg59> I haven't heard anyone report this behaviour on any USB devices
 [06:08:33]  <airlied> in that case the kernel shoyuuld abstract it
 [06:09:01]  <airlied> really a ps2 keyb and usb keyb should look the same to userspace
 [06:09:21]  <daniels^ right now they do, except that some keys mystically autorepeat forever.
 [06:09:27]  <mjg59> Downside to doing it in kernel is that the laoptop users on FreeBSD cry
 [06:09:46]  <airlied^ they all run macosx :-)
 [06:09:56]  <daniels> that's my point, is that if it's abstract enough that i can't tell the difference, then it has to be quirked in the kernel.  if it's the full brutal wire interface, then i'll deal with it.
 [06:10:18]  <daniels> mjg59: hopefully they can convert tears into patches for their kernel
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[07:43:48]  <Company> daniels: cgit is preferred to gitweb on freedesktop?
 [07:47:41]  <daniels> comp very
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[10:00:38]  <dagb> cgit is ok, but it does not allow for sorting by last change. Like http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?o=age
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[10:47:04]  <JohnFlux> daniels: my crash last week was because WaitMarker  was added, which I hadn't implemented :)
 [10:53:11]  <ajax> crap.  the rc3 tag i just pushed doesn't distcheck.
 [10:53:18]  <ajax> bad release manager.  no biscuit.
 [10:54:10]  <mraudsepp> have a beer instead
 [10:54:40]  <mjg59> Drinking on work time?
 [10:55:26]  <ajax> it's not even noon yet.
 [10:55:34]  <ajax> granted it's a holiday week...
 [10:58:46]  <JohnFlux^ holiday week?
 [10:59:59]  <cjb^ fourth of july is friday.
 [11:00:04]  <cjb> we get thursday off too, for some reason.
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[11:14:33]  <JohnFlux> cjb: oh yeah.  the day you terrorists attacked us :-D
 [11:14:45]  <JohnFlux> aka independance day
 [11:15:34]  <cjb> yup.  It feels pretty odd to be a Brit in Boston on July 4th.
 [11:15:51]  <JohnFlux> heh
 [11:16:36]  <ajax> i was playing gta4 yesterday
 [11:16:54]  <marcheu> ah, it's resolution independance day ? that explains this thread
 [11:17:22]  <JohnFlux> I'm using the built-in fonts with kdrive, and it crashes after I quit a program saying "Could not open default cursor font 'cursor'"
 [11:17:24]  <JohnFlux> any ideas?
 [11:17:27]  <ajax> there's a bit in the in-game tv feed that's a history channel kind of thing about america "winning her independence from britain's oppressive taxation, public health care, and education"
 [11:17:36]  <ajax> instead, guns!
 [11:17:37]  <cjb> awesome
 [11:17:47]  <cjb> "what did the Britons ever do for us?"
 [11:18:15]  <ajax> splitters.
 [11:18:39]  <ajax> JohnFlux: i think there's a bug in server regeneration in the built-in fonts provider.  that no one has bothered to properly track down.
 [11:18:58]  <ajax> it probably goes away if you use -noreset.
 [11:19:17]  <JohnFlux> also I get:  (EE) XKB: Couldn't open rules file /usr/X11R6_SGX/share/X11/xkb/rules/base      is this important? :)
 [11:19:38]  <ajax> only if you want your keyboard to work...
 [11:19:51]  <JohnFlux> not particularly.  i don't have a keyboard :-D
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[11:22:22]  <JohnFlux> woah
 [11:22:27]  <JohnFlux> the speed increase is amazing :)
 [11:22:40]  <JohnFlux> 2004 version of kdrive did 4096 blits in 12 seconds
 [11:22:45]  <JohnFlux> 2008 version of kdrive did 4096 blits in 3 seconds
 [11:22:54]  <JohnFlux> nice going guys :)
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[11:26:41]  <JohnFlux> Interesting
 [11:26:49]  <JohnFlux> I'm seing a 3 times improvement all across the board
 [11:27:06]  <JohnFlux> using render_bench
 [11:27:32]  <ajax> neat
 [11:29:05]  <mjg59> Thank you for using #xorg-devel consulting
 [11:29:09]  <mjg59> The bill will be in the post
 [11:29:16]  * JohnFlux grins
 [11:31:06]  <cjb> I see, we have a cunning plan to take back America by first making them discard their silly "check" and "mail" jargon.
 [11:31:49]  <mjg59^ I'm in the UK. Imagination are in the UK.
 [11:32:36]  <JohnFlux> my imagination exists everywhere
 [11:33:07]  <ajax> ITYM "cheque".
 [11:33:19]  <JohnFlux> .wik ITYM
 [11:33:22]  <JohnFlux> bah
 [11:33:46]  <CosmicPenguin> whats a check?
 [11:33:48]  <CosmicPenguin> whats mail?
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[11:35:11]  <JohnFlux> CosmicPenguin: the opposite of femail
 [11:35:58]  <daniels^ you need a newer xfont to escape the 'cursor' error
 [11:36:44]  <daniels> dodji fixed it, iirc
 [11:36:54]  <JohnFlux^ ah okay.  any chance of backporting the fix to the release or something?
 [11:37:03]  <JohnFlux> although the -noreload works fine :)
 [11:37:14]  <JohnFlux> -noreset
 [11:38:34]  <JohnFlux> btw, in old kdrive, 4096  non-scaled blends took  11 seconds, and half scaled blends took 32 seconds.  with new kdrive, they both take 11 seconds
 [11:38:39]  <JohnFlux> nice :)
 [11:38:51]  <ajax> all the changes dodji's made to libXfont (all one of them) are present in libXfont 1.3.2
 [11:43:04]  <JohnFlux^ thanks
 [11:43:29]  <ajax> crapping dammit evolution.
 [11:43:36]  <ajax> learn to eat unicode on the command line or die trying
 [11:44:11]  <JohnFlux^ are there other changes to libXfont 1.3.2  made by other people?
 [11:44:14]  <JohnFlux> or just 1 change in total?
 [11:44:30]  <ajax> several others.  including at least one CVE fix.
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[11:44:42]  <JohnFlux> CVE?
 [11:45:07]  <ajax> "common vulnerabilities and exposures".  security bugs.
 [11:45:08]  <stillunknown> Does anyone here know of any good binary comparison programs?
 [11:45:12]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libXfont
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[11:45:37]  <stillunknown> most seem to do either line by line or they give a binary diff which is hard to interpret.
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[11:48:24]  <JohnFlux> stillunknown: how would you expect it to work?
 [11:48:48]  <stillunknown> I'd expect to work like a normal diff, showing me regions where data is different.
 [11:50:45]  <mraudsepp> maybe meld on hexdump? ;o
 [11:51:26]  <stillunknown> hexdump is not ideal for detecting extra bytes here and there
 [11:51:55]  <mraudsepp> you just make it grokkable by tools like meld and diff with it
 [11:52:12]  <mraudsepp> ok, not diff. Those that can show what exactly on a given line changes, like meld
 [11:52:16]  <CosmicPenguin> stillunknown: bvi!
 [11:52:46]  * CosmicPenguin isn't sure if bvi does comparisions, actually
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[12:05:03]  <jcristau> crap, i forgot to sign the glint announce mail
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[12:18:47]  <JohnFlux> how do I compile X without ip6 support?
 [12:19:38]  <jcristau> --disable-ipv6?
 [12:19:57]  <ajax> that's not an option though.
 [12:20:08]  <JohnFlux> yeah, reading the configure code, it does check for --disable-ipv6
 [12:20:17]  <JohnFlux> but it's not shown in the ./configure --help
 [12:20:33]  <jcristau> ajax: xtrans.m4 has AC_ARG_ENABLE(ipv6, ...)
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[12:20:49]  <ajax> sigh.
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[12:21:07]  <ajax> xtrans makes me so sad.
 [12:21:28]  <jcristau> not just you, i think
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[12:32:57]  <petec> is there a way to compile a version of X with panning restored?
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[12:33:50]  <petec> or does anyone know where the code for panning was last seen so I can go take a look?
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[12:37:48]  <dagb> petec: panning? as in "having a larger virtual desktop than your physical screen"?
 [12:37:54]  <petec> yes!
 [12:38:14]  <petec> well also being able to move to it dynamically (with the mouse)
 [12:38:49]  <dagb> ah. the last bit doesn't work anymore?
 [12:39:10]  <petec> correct I believe (on my recent reinstall)
 [12:39:24]  <jcristau> that was killed by randr1.2
 [12:39:29]  <petec> I certainly cant seem to make it work or find out why its stopped apart from deliberate
 [12:39:42]  <petec> can I go back to randr 1.1 do you think?
 [12:40:34]  <petec> i believe the developers (inc Keith) said that they would replace it with something else in randr1.3
 [12:40:43]  <petec> ive seen messages to that effect
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[12:41:12]  <jcristau> the messages i've seen basically said 'just do it client-side'
 [12:41:21]  <petec> but i have no idea when 1.3 is out and I cant see most of my screen when I am in laptop mode (i use the laptop mostly with an external screen)
 [12:41:35]  <petec> is there any info on doing it client side?
 [12:41:44]  <petec> i am no X expert...
 [12:42:34]  <petec> i did see a reference to 'it should be possible to do it clientside' but i have heard of no code which does it
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[12:43:11]  <petec> and I'm not ready to write it myself...
 [12:43:57]  <petec> but i was thinking I can take a look at what was removed in randr 1.3 say and maybe work out how to put it back myself, but ive never dipped into the X code, it must be pretty large and difficult i would assume
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[12:53:00]  <dberkholz> whot: i just switched your blog on the planet, let me know if things look wrong
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[13:03:23]  <ajax> airlied: dude.  libdrm release?
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[13:07:45]  <jg> ajax: yeah, xtrans is about as evil as anything I've ever seen...  It makes me cry....
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[13:52:23]  <ajax> so, updating the module list for 7.4
 [13:52:41]  <ajax> if i dropped twm, who would notice or care?
 [13:53:04]  <drago01> only people that saw your message now ;)
 [13:53:32]  <fredrikh^ well they wouldn't necessarily care ;)
 [13:53:41]  <daniels> announce it and do it
 [13:53:53]  <drago01> fredrikh: ;) but notice
[13:55:13]  <fredrikh> ajax: any chance we could see 06e7e1d0486e8c516a9b3219a2c86026f88825fc in server-1.5?
 [13:56:07]  <ajax^ done.
 [13:56:26]  <fredrikh^ thanks
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[14:26:10]  <cworth`> keithp: Apparently default_nick isn't enough, but default_user as well.
 [14:26:25]  <cworth`> Thanks for the helpful glance at your file, though.
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[14:47:43]  <keithp> cworth: looks like bip is working
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[15:19:03]  <dagb> I am building xorg-server from git, via cloos' live-x11 ebuilds. It bombs out not finding /usr/lib/libxcb-xlib.la. Would this be a problem with xorg-server, libxcb, or either of the ebuilds?
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[15:20:09]  <daniels> sudo rm -rf /usr/lib/**/*.la
 [15:20:53]  <dagb> I was wondering about that...
 [15:21:15]  <daniels> seriously
 [15:22:11]  <dagb> ditto
 [15:23:49]  <ajax> we should figure out a way to hack the the libtool rules to not do that
 [15:25:39]  <daniels> pretty much the only thing i figured out is to append a bit to the install rule that removes every libtool file after it's been installed, but, ugh
 [15:29:36]  <dagb^ thanks for the tip.
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[15:37:54]  <anderco> May the window field of a XFixesSelectionNotify be set to 0?
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[15:44:28]  <ajax> from my reading of the code that should never happen.
 [15:44:37]  <ajax> it's not clear what it would mean if that did happen...
 [15:55:02]  <anderco^ thanks
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[16:17:35]  <erikg> i'd like to implement the following: when a specific button (say Super_L) is pressed, mouse x/y movements are interpreted as mouse button 4, button 5 events
 [16:17:49]  <erikg> i'm curious about where it would be sensible to implement this.  userland seems like a bad place.
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[16:25:30]  <User756> are there any icccm or ewmh progammers here ?
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[16:45:01]  <User756> nobody ehhh.....come one this is the xorg-devel channel there has to be some programmers here
 [16:45:32]  <ajax> there are several, but most people aren't writing window managers anymore.
 [16:45:43]  <ajax> you might have better luck just asking your question.
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[16:53:11]  <arekm> abi question, if xserver has videodrv abi 4.1 what does this actually mean? that drivers need to be build with exactly this abi version?
[16:53:25]  <arekm> or maybe with >= 4.1 && < 5.0
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[16:53:28]  <arekm> ?
 [16:53:48]  <airlied> ajax: today I swears..
 [16:55:51]  <ajax> arekm: if the driver is built against version x.y, it will work against any server >= x.y and < x+1.0
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[17:00:35]  <arekm> ajax: ok, need to rework rpm macros that find autodeps for abi here
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[17:02:09]  <arekm> libdrm 2.3 is fine for xserver 1.5 snaps I assume
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[17:14:09]  <airlied> arekm: libdrm 2.3.1 should be out today.
 [17:14:18]  <airlied> hopefully the xserver builds against it.
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[17:29:39]  <dberkholz> 3 RC's in a new day must be some sort of record.
 [17:29:53]  <ajax> i'm compensating for zero rcs over a month.
 [17:30:03]  <dberkholz> wow, i totally mangled that english.
 [17:30:11]  <dberkholz> i meant to say 3 new RC's in a day
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[17:54:44]  <astromme_> Hi, I'm having some trouble with mpx and xorg git head. I've updated xorg/app/xinput but it still seems to not have the flag I need.
[17:55:08]  <astromme_> ~/path-to-xorgbuild/xinput --create-master "foobar" produces the help page for xinput
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[17:57:44]  <astromme_> I guess what I'm wondering is.... is xinput --create-master "foobar" the correct syntax?
 [17:58:10]  <astromme_> I get a xinput version of 1.3.0
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[18:08:05]  <astromme_> aha, success! For some reason git-xorg.sh wasn't grabbing the newest xinput. I had to git clone manually
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[18:27:23]  <cworth> ajax: So xf86-input-mouse isn't building for me, (wrong args to InitPointerDeviceStruct). Is this related to your recent server ABI change?
 [18:30:41]  <astromme_> (Note... I am a newbie at Xorg stuff) -.. That's possible. What xinput headers do you have and how recent is your xf86-input-mouse source?
 [18:31:10]  <astromme_> and now that I say that... it would be because of an API change, not an ABI change.. I think
 [18:31:15]  <drago01_> the abi change was unrelated to this....
 [18:31:33]  <astromme_> ok, ignore me =P
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[18:34:12]  <daniels> cworth: make sure you have abi 2.1, not 3.1
 [18:34:26]  <daniels> i think abi 3.0 changed IPDS, but is only in master
 [18:35:21]  <cworth^ xf86-input-mouse doesn't build with master server, (where the number changed from 3.1 to 2.1), but builds if I revert that change.
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[18:37:05]  <daniels> cworth: um, yeah, ajax screwed up
 [18:37:20]  <daniels> ajax: sorry, my master is dirty and i'm lazy, but could you please revert the 3.1 -> 2.1 change on master only?
 [18:37:23]  <daniels> master was already 3.0.
 [18:37:26]  <daniels> cworth: okay, so revert that change
 [18:39:02]  <astromme_> Ok, so I have major flickering when I'm using xorg (trunk? master? what's the git word?) and I have two cursors. Is that because of the software rendering of cursors?
 [18:39:39]  <daniels^ if you mean that the cursors flicker, yes, that'll happen
 [18:39:40]  <cworth^ Yes. I reverted to be able to build.
 [18:39:50]  <cworth> I just came asking to know if I should push that.
 [18:39:54]  <astromme_+ no, my entire screen flickers white
 [18:39:56]  <daniels> cworth: ah, right.  yes.
 [18:40:02]  <daniels> astromme_: _that_ shouldn't happen, no.
 [18:40:05]  <daniels> which driver?
 [18:40:09]  <astromme_> I have a black background in an opengl app
 [18:40:15]  <daniels^ (the git word is 'master', btw)
 [18:40:16]  <astromme_> intel something.. lemmy check
 [18:40:23]  <daniels^ ah yeah, gl will probably screw everything
 [18:40:23]  <cworth^ Thanks for digging up ajax's comments. I'll push the rever.
 [18:40:24]  <astromme_+ I think i965
 [18:40:31]  <daniels> cworth: np
 [18:40:44]  <daniels> astromme_: although if you have the issue with only one cursor, it may be not having a double-buffered visual available
 [18:40:55]  <astromme_^ I'll check
 [18:41:28]  <daniels> cworth: would be interested to find out more about the crash
 [18:41:37]  <daniels> can you please clag me a full backtrace?
 [18:42:20]  <astromme_> Yes, I still have it even with only 1 pointer.. but I'm still getting the "0" next to my pointer.. does that mean still software?
 [18:43:22]  <astromme_> It looks like I'm on i915... is that normal for a "GM965/GL960" (from lspci)
 [18:44:01]  <cworth> daniels: I was only crashing with mixed ABI. Don't know exactly how I managed to build that.
 [18:44:07]  <astromme_> because my lsmod lists drm using i915 and no i965
 [18:44:10]  <daniels^ no, that sounds like gl failure
 [18:44:19]  <daniels> having the i915 drm driver is completely normal, yes
 [18:44:24]  <daniels> cworth: ah, right.  yeah, that'll happen.
 [18:44:24]  <astromme_> ok
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[18:45:04]  <astromme_> daniels: Yeah, I think it's a gl problem. Hmm.... any pointers for debugging this? I'm using mesa master as well
 [18:45:28]  <daniels^ no clue, sorry
 [18:45:36]  <daniels> glxinfo might tell you if you're failing to provide a double-buffered visual
 [18:45:40]  <astromme_^ is there a #mesa or something?
 [18:45:56]  <daniels> also iirc glxgears (not a benchmark etc) should fail to start if it can't get double-buffered
 [18:46:00]  <daniels> hmm, not sure, tbh
 [18:46:04]  <daniels> istr #dri-devel
 [18:46:47]  <astromme_^ glxgears does run... interesting
 [18:46:58]  <astromme_> but flickers horribly... not white this time but black
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[18:48:19]  <daniels> right, so you're not getting a double-buffered visual for some reason
 [18:48:51]  <astromme_^ ok, thanks. I'll ask there
 [18:49:45]  <daniels> np
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[19:02:03]  <cjb> cworth: it broke all the input drivers at once, per tinderbox.
 [19:06:17]  <drago01_+ Author "root" ? ;)
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[21:55:12]  <whot> dberkholz: thanks for that. seems to work fine
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[23:36:39]  <dberkholz> whot: good deal.
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----- [2008-07-01] -----
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[00:34:22]  <vignatti> dberkholz: may I bother you in the case of fd.o webcvs isn't working?
 [00:34:30]  <dberkholz^ can't do anything about that
 [00:34:41]  <vignatti^ okay, tkx
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[01:11:00]  <Amaranth> I remember someone talking about that
 [01:11:29]  <Amaranth> But that may have been some time ago, they were talking about it getting hit by google, msn, and yahoo bots and were disabling it so the rest of the server would keep working
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[01:16:48]  <vignatti> msn bots? :)
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[01:27:06]  <ds> if it were that simple, robots.txt could have fixed it
 [01:27:27]  <ds> the problem are spiders for no-name search companies that ignore robots.txt
 [01:28:03]  <ds> and worse, fall into the link trap that is webcvs, with a gigantic generated tar file linked on every page
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[02:17:01]  <arekm> airlied: oh, nice, I guess that will help mesa too since it doesn't build right now for me
 [02:17:33]  <dberkholz> vignatti: cgit is working fine, use that
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[03:25:29]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:08:56]  <arekm> xf86mm.h no longer needed? it's gone from libdrm 2.3.1
 [05:09:17]  <arekm> was there in 2.3.0
 [05:09:58]  <Dr_Jakob^ xf86mm.h had the ttm interface in it.
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[05:12:06]  <arekm> looking at mesa git then, 7.1rc1 want xf86mm.h
 [05:13:06]  <Dr_Jakob> i915tex? if that is still in there?
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[05:13:48]  <arekm> i810
 [05:14:09]  <arekm> master has ifdefs around that code
 [05:14:16]  <Dr_Jakob> ok
 [05:14:50]  <Dr_Jakob> airlied: do you know about this?
 [05:16:46]  <arekm> he added ifdefs 8)
 [05:18:15]  <Dr_Jakob> yeah, I'm guessing those commits should be cherry-picked to 7.1rc1
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[05:19:26]  <airlied> arekm: it wasn't in 2.3.0 was it?
 [05:19:44]  <arekm^ it was there
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[05:20:20]  <airlied> arekm: ah well .. oops..
 [05:20:27]  <airlied> it shouldn't have escaped back then :)
 [05:21:03]  <airlied> you need to backport a couple of patches to build rc1 against 2.3.1
 [05:21:07]  <arekm> not sure if mesa 7.0 used it. if not then who cares
 [05:21:23]  <arekm> backported have_ttm ifdefs. Now looking at ../common/dri_bufmgr.c:43: error: 'DRM_BO_FLAG_MEM_PRIV0' undeclared (first use in this function)
 [05:21:40]  <airlied^ backport the top patch in mesa mater
 [05:21:42]  <airlied> master.
 [05:21:45]  <airlied> I just fixed that.
 [05:22:10]  <airlied> mesa master is going to be 7.1rc2 soon I would guess
 [05:23:21]  <airlied> I've also fixed i810 master.
 [05:23:26]  <airlied> that needs to get backportewd.
 [05:32:12]  <Liskni_si> hm
 [05:32:43]  <Liskni_si> out of curiosity, airlied, did you receive my mails a week ago (tomi@nomi.cz, mplayer -vo gl not working due to kernel regression)
 [05:33:08]  <arekm> have_drm + top patch were enough to build 7.1rc1
[05:34:24]  <dagb> airlied: great changelog. Do you have any idea at all about when a (mesa/libdrm-)release with support for GEM can be expected?
 [05:35:19]  <arekm> after gem vs ttm fight ends ? :)
 [05:37:43]  <dagb> not much of a fight if intel goes GEM and AMD isn't seriously working on TTM, is it? (My picture of what is going on may be incorrect.)
 [05:40:03]  <arekm> hm, why swrast in mesa configs/* isn't enabled?
 [05:40:47]  <tjaalton> dagb: well, there's this
[05:40:49]  <tjaalton> uh
 [05:41:12]  <tjaalton> dagb: ..'radeon-gem-wcfs' branch on ~airlied/drm :)
 [05:42:08]  * arekm thought that swrast driver is base thing and should be build by default now
 [05:43:38]  <dagb> 'gem on ttm'?
 [05:44:36]  <airlied> Liskni_si: maybe which email address :)
 [05:45:23]  <Liskni_si^ did you read the part in parentheses?
 [05:45:47]  <airlied^ which one of my email addressees :)
 [05:45:54]  <Liskni_si^ oh, @redhat.com
 [05:46:12]  <Liskni_si> ccd to keith
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[05:48:53]  <airlied> Liskni_si: don't see it, it sorta rang a bell though.
 [05:49:28]  <Liskni_si> hm. interesting.
 [05:49:48]  <Liskni_si> well, i can fill a bugzilla, if you want
 [05:50:48]  <airlied^ probabyl betyter.
 [05:50:59]  <airlied> I lose mail a lot, bugzilla has a higher chance of someone tracking it
 [05:51:01]  <Liskni_si> oyaki.
 [05:51:01]  <Liskni_si> :)
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[06:02:50]  <arekm> added swrast to drivers in configs/linux-dri - it built fine
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[06:05:31]  <arekm> now I wonder when swrast_dri will be actually used? always? for 3d only? will commercial fglrx/nvidia also use it?
 [06:05:59]  <arekm> (need this for proper rpm packaging/deps)
 [06:06:33]  <airlied> it'll be used by 1.5 X server instead of GLcore I think.
 [06:06:46]  <airlied> not sure if ajax put it in 1.5 though..
 [06:06:54]  <jcristau^ he did
 [06:07:50]  <arekm> I had glcore in xserver package so it was always there available. Now it's in mesa package so some dependencies in xserver rpm are probably needed. The question is when swrast will be actually used?
 [06:08:12]  <Liskni_si> airlied: should i put it to kernel bugzilla or some drm one (and which, fd.o ?)
 [06:08:36]  <airlied^ kernel one if its in upstream kernel
 [06:08:41]  <Liskni_si^ ok.
 [06:08:44]  <jcristau> arekm: same answer as for GLcore before. you use glx and you don't have dri.
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[06:13:20]  <arekm> so I guess no deps will be needed. no swrast (and no other dri drivers) == no glx
 [06:13:28]  <arekm> but other this work fine, correct?
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[06:15:30]  <jcristau> it might crash your server
 [06:16:54]  <airlied> you need swrast.. no swrast == bad bad things
 [06:17:01]  <airlied> unless you have no glx
 [06:22:43]  <arekm> and if I have dri r300.so but no swrast? is swrast still used in such case?
 [06:23:08]  <arekm> (assuming hw matches)
 [06:23:15]  <airlied^ only if aiglx is off.
 [06:23:39]  <arekm> some software fallback don't go via swrast?
 [06:23:46]  <arekm> if aiglx is on
 [06:23:54]  <airlied> nope..
[06:24:00]  <arekm> ok
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[06:33:35]  <torsten> [12:05] <torsten> hi does anybody now can it use this USB to DVI adapter http://www.videkonline.co.uk/moreinfo.asp?code=2494HD
 [06:33:35]  <torsten> [12:05] <torsten> please help me
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[06:35:45]  <dr-xorg> airlied: the kernel modules for linux are not supposed to build with the drm-2.3.1, no?
 [06:35:58]  <arekm> uhuhu, xserver build failed
 [06:36:10]  <airlied> dr-xorg: its only the libdrm bits.. shouldn't be used for kernel modules.
 [06:36:14]  <airlied> kernel modules are in the kernel
 [06:36:20]  <airlied> arekm: --disable-dri2 :)
 [06:36:27]  <dr-xorg> :) ok, thx.
 [06:36:34]  <arekm> dri_interface.h missing, forgot to add it
 [06:37:02]  <torsten> is it possible that it use this USB to DVI adapter http://www.videkonline.co.uk/moreinfo.asp?code=2494HD with Linux // xorg
 [06:38:44]  <airlied^ unlikely.. but maybe, there are some SiS VGA ones.
 [06:38:56]  <arekm^ is GL/internal/dri_interface.h meant to be provided by mesa-devel like package?
 [06:39:51]  <airlied^ yes.
 [06:40:13]  <torsten> i need hdmi support if this does realy is useable that its uninteresting is this possbile
 [06:40:48]  <arekm> hm, /usr/include/GL/internal belongs to xorg proto-glproto-devel
[06:44:45]  <daniels> ds: the problem with robots.txt was that we were in the middle of a crawl and didn't have one at the time
 [06:45:00]  <daniels> so i disabled it until it blew over, and have now (far later) added a robots.txt and re-enabled webcvs
 [06:45:28]  <torsten> k i will ask the other way around, is there a USB to DVI graphics adapter that works with linux AND supports HDMI
[06:46:07]  <daniels^ probably not
 [06:48:34]  <torsten> shit thats not good is thereone  which just works with linux not to 100 % but just works
 [06:49:31]  <daniels> the sis one, but no hdmi.
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[06:55:25]  <arekm> can xserver ABIs be 3-digit, too?
 [06:55:38]  <daniels> only two
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[06:57:04]  <arekm> huhu, xserver build succeeded
 [06:57:12]  <JohnFlux> what does the mask do in kdrive PrepareComposite?
 [06:57:32]  <daniels^ er, it's used as a mask
 [06:57:34]  <JohnFlux> I don't quite understand how it interacts with the different porter-duff operations
 [06:58:16]  <daniels^ think of it as a bitmask to dictate which bits of the src will be ignored or used.  now imagine it's full alpha, not just one-bit.
 [06:58:36]  <JohnFlux^ so:  apply source transformations.  then apply mask transformations.  Then apply the transformed mask to the transformed source.  then apply the result to the destination with the given porter-duff operation.
 [06:58:39]  <JohnFlux> right?
 [06:59:00]  <daniels> pretty much, yep.
 [07:00:38]  <JohnFlux^ I'm trying to work out how to do arbituary transformations :)
 [07:03:17]  <JohnFlux> even if I can only accelerate a straight blit, it seems worth doing the transformations in software and then accelerating the final blit
 [07:03:41]  <JohnFlux> this isn't really possible right?
 [07:04:44]  <daniels> not at the moment, you'd have to write your own transform paths
 [07:05:39]  <JohnFlux> looking at some bench marks, it takes approximately  3.5 seconds to blit 4000 times, hardware accelerated.  to scale _in software_ takes only 0.18.  so theoretically, scaling in software then hardware blitting should be pretty fast
 [07:05:59]  <JohnFlux> doing an unaccelerated scaled blit takes 11 seconds
 [07:06:07]  <JohnFlux> (all times for 4000 times)
 [07:06:40]  <JohnFlux> it seems very much worth it for kdrive to be able to use composite for the final blit, even if all the transformations are done in software
 [07:06:51]  <JohnFlux> daniels: do I make any sense? :)
 [07:07:41]  <daniels> yeah, that makes perfect sense
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[07:08:13]  <daniels> at the moment, it just punts straight to the slow path if it's transformed, so you'd have to write a C 'fastpath' that would apply the transformation in sw and then hand off for the blit
 [07:08:25]  <JohnFlux> oh, the 0.18 software scaling is on my fast machine.  on a 400mhz processor it takes 3.5 seconds to scale
 [07:08:55]  <JohnFlux> but that's still 3.5 + 3.5   to software scale and hardware blit, compared to   11 for softare scaled blit
 [07:09:40]  <JohnFlux> s/400mhz/200mhz/
 [07:10:54]  <JohnFlux> daniels: do you think it's an easy change to hardware blit after the transformations?
 [07:11:11]  <JohnFlux> would you be interested in such a change for kdrive?
 [07:11:16]  <daniels> shouldn't be too difficult, just c+p and shuffling code around
 [07:11:33]  <daniels> for kaa? hm, you're the only one using it instead of exa ...
 [07:11:42]  <JohnFlux> heh
 [07:12:17]  <JohnFlux> daniels: there's already a blend hook - isn't that for compositing without any transformations/masks etc?
 [07:12:32]  <daniels> tbh, i'mnot sure
 [07:12:37]  <JohnFlux^ it would make sense to call the blend hook at the end of the software transformations, no?
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[07:14:35]  <daniels> yeah
 [07:32:47]  <math_b> mjg59: I have some (minor and quite trivial to be honest) patch for the badtouch driver, you will find it there: http://pastebin.com/m2ed1637f , the most usefull part is a compile fix against xserver 1.5.99 (git master)
 [07:33:34]  <mjg59^ Wow. Erm.
 [07:33:43]  <mjg59> Thanks, I'll merge that when I find some real connectivity
 [07:33:45]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I'm thinking about - I have to memcpy the pixmap anyway to device addressable memory
 [07:33:59]  <JohnFlux> I can apply the transformation during that copy of memory
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[07:34:23]  <JohnFlux> daniels: it would be effectively 'free', given that apply the transformation is fast compared to the copying of memory
 [07:34:36]  <math_b> mjg59: no problem
 [07:36:08]  <daniels> JohnFlux: right
 [07:36:37]  <JohnFlux^ actually not sure how to do this.  kdrive calls uploadToScratch itself, rather than letting composite do it
 [07:37:24]  <JohnFlux> since prepareComposite is called first, i could get uploadToScratch to apply the transformation set by prepareComposite, but that sounds pretty nasty
 [07:38:11]  <JohnFlux> I think that's the order they are called in - prepareComposite, UploadToScratch, Composite
 [07:38:32]  <daniels> yeah, that sounds about right
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[07:39:32]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I can't immediately see how it would be possible to apply the transformation while uploadingToScratch, so I think I can't do that idea
 [07:40:10]  <daniels> anholt or MrCooper would be the people to ask here
 [07:40:17]  <JohnFlux> thanks
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[07:58:15]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I'm getting a rendercheck failure on Xfbdev
 [07:58:53]  <JohnFlux> specifically:  Beginning transformed mask coords test 2
 [07:59:31]  <JohnFlux> I think I tested this on Xfbdev for an older version of kdrive, and it worked then
 [07:59:48]  <JohnFlux> anyone have kdrive installed? :)
 [08:00:12]  <daniels> not on holiday, i don't ;)
 [08:00:19]  <daniels> bear in mind that xephyr is a kdrive server too, so you can test against that
 [08:02:38]  <JohnFlux^ it works fine on Xephyr  on my linux machine
 [08:02:40]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [08:03:52]  <JohnFlux> maybe an endian problem
 [08:04:07]  <JohnFlux> daniels: and get off irc and party :P
 [08:04:23]  <JohnFlux> or whatever you do on holiday
 [08:07:39]  <daniels> surely your arm is little-endian?
 [08:07:51]  <daniels> and hm, at the moment irc is competing with lunch and cleaning up the house.
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[08:17:02]  <JohnFlux> daniels: how do I find out? :)
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[08:20:42]  <arekm> dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input//synaptics_drv.so: undefined symbol: xf86errno
 [08:21:02]  <arekm> is plain errno used now?
 [08:21:44]  <jcristau> yes
 [08:22:53]  <daniels> JohnFlux: look at config.log, for one
 [08:22:56]  <daniels> just grep for ENDIAN
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[08:23:46]  <JohnFlux> yeah it's little endian
 [08:23:48]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [08:25:40]  * arekm running 1.4.99.905 + mesa 7.1rc1 and ati driver 6.9.0 now
 [08:26:00]  <dr-xorg> airlied: the intel driver seems to rely on xf86mm.h ...
 [08:26:01]  <dr-xorg> I get "In file included from i810_driver.c:88:
 [08:26:01]  <dr-xorg> i830.h:73:20: error: xf86mm.h: No such file or directory" with either 2.3-branch, 2.4-branch or master ...
 [08:26:44]  <arekm> airlied: even with --disable-dri2 xserver reports in log: "(II) "dri2" will be loaded by default." Of course this module isn't there.
 [08:26:45]  <jcristau> dr-xorg: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/commit/?id=55678c64bc6e3ed613ea6db14c105c18a0cf28ce
 [08:27:12]  <arekm> airlied: not a problem but this could be cleaned up to avoid this message
 [08:27:48]  <dr-xorg> jcristau: OK, thx...
[08:28:24]  <jcristau^ which means master should build ok
 [08:29:07]  <dr-xorg^ yeah, thought that when I looked at it; off to new git pull, then ...
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[09:07:08]  <spb_nick_> Hello everyone! I'm trying to make the Debian Etch version of evdev work with tablets. Judging from the "xinput test" output and xf86Post* traces it works OK...
 [09:07:41]  <spb_nick_> ... at least when comparing the same output of WizardPen driver, which is working OK.
 [09:08:18]  <spb_nick_> The problem is that upon trying to draw (just touching with the pen) GIMP hangs.
 [09:08:45]  <spb_nick_> Does anybody have any ideas, or maybe had seen something like that?
 [09:09:13]  <spb_nick_> Or is it too much to ask you about such an ancient software?
 [09:10:32]  <spb_nick_> And yes it works alright otherwise, i.e. as a traditional input device, if I don't configure it as "extended" in the GIMP.
 [09:11:15]  <spb_nick_> GIMP hangs in something which seems to be a busy loop. And I'm not yet sure if it is the GIMP or GTK responsible.
 [09:12:14]  <spb_nick_> Thanks :)
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[09:14:17]  <daniels> hmm, that's very odd.
 [09:14:29]  <daniels> which version of the server are you using?
 [09:21:35]  <spb_nick_^ 1.1.1 it seems, but heavily patched by Debian guys :)
 [09:22:00]  <daniels> er, 1.1.1?
 [09:22:04]  <daniels> that's the version of xserver-xorg-core?
 [09:23:36]  <spb_nick_^ Sorry, I'm too stupid today :) xserver-xorg package has version 7.1.0-19.
 [09:24:29]  <spb_nick_> 1.1.1 was the source package version apparently
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[09:27:51]  <daniels> spb_nick_: xserver-xorg-core, not xserver-xorg, but i'd guess at -core being too old for this to work properly
 [09:28:07]  <daniels> basically most servers before 1.4.2 are too buggy to use for extended input.
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[09:32:00]  <spb_nick_> daniels: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core shows version 1.1.1-21etch5. Then I guess this means that it is too hard to say what could be wrong. Thanks :)
 [09:33:18]  <spb_nick_> I was only hoping somebody already experienced something similar and could point me at least in a vague direction :)
 [09:33:50]  <daniels> wow, okay, yeah.  afraid there's not much you can do bar getting a new server, tbh.
 [09:34:26]  <spb_nick_^ Well to the GIMP and GTK sources I go, then, and then maybe to Debian Testing (bye-bye CDMA traffic limit) :)
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[09:34:51]  <spb_nick_> daniels: Thanks once again :)
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[09:36:58]  <whot> spb_nick_: what version are you running (disconnect wiped half my history)
 [09:37:17]  <jcristau^ 7.1
 [09:38:07]  <whot> oh, no idea then :)
 [09:38:10]  <spb_nick_> jcristau: Thanks, I'm quite confused with version numbers now :)
 [09:38:15]  <spb_nick_> whot: Thanks :)
 [09:38:38]  <whot> though I know of gimp issues with current master too
 [09:38:40]  <jcristau> spb_nick_: X.Org 7.1, xserver 1.1 :)
 [09:39:34]  <spb_nick_^ So, X.org is a package and xserver is a part of it? Or?
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[09:41:09]  <jcristau> spb_nick_: something like that
 [09:42:00]  <whot^ you happy with 16301?
 [09:42:57]  <ajax> the jargon term is "katamari"
 [09:49:09]  <jcristau> whot: looks good to me. didn't test though.
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[09:59:00]  <whot> jcristau: works fine here, I'll leave it rest for a day or two, then push it if noone complains
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[10:08:00]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: ping?
 [10:09:02]  <MrCooper^ I'm afraid I can't really help much with KAA
 [10:10:54]  <JohnFlux^ just to run by you anyway, incase you have some feedback:    rendercheck fails on kdrive on my arm system - any ideas?
 [10:11:48]  <JohnFlux> and secondly,  I'm looking at modifying the code to call composite at the end of the software transforms for the final blit.  sound okay to you?
 [10:12:28]  <MrCooper> no, and not sure offhand
 [10:13:02]  <JohnFlux^ okay, np - thanks anyway
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[10:13:15]  <MrCooper> np
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[10:32:14]  <dagb> is the concept of DPMS tied to VGA, or does it apply to DVI and HDMI as well?
 [10:32:36]  <mjg59> It applies to DVI at least
 [10:36:15]  <pjones> ... which pretty much means it has to apply to hdmi, doesn't it?
 [10:36:21]  <dagb> ok. does DPMS imply anything but shutting down the output with the image data when on DVI?
[10:36:46]  <mjg59> Yes?
 [10:36:59]  <mjg59> It ought to power down the monitor rather than generating a "no signal" response
 [10:38:06]  <dagb> right. And that "shutdown-signal" is sent over the same pins as the picture data?
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[10:39:29]  <dagb> I am trying to figure out if my G35's inability to suspend my HDMI connected monitor is a problem with the driver or the monitor itself.
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[10:40:43]  <mjg59> dagb: I'm not sure how the signalling's done over DVI off-hand
 [10:41:57]  <pjones> it's done with ddc on the i2c bus in all cases, I think...
 [10:42:20]  <mjg59^ Legacy way on VGA was to cut either hsync, vsync or both
 [10:42:21]  <pjones> Or am I wrong about how dpms is implemented in general?
 [10:43:11]  <pjones> mjg59: ah, right.
 [10:43:13]  <dagb> The monitor manufacturer's support departement states that the monitor should be fine, so I suspect the driver.
[10:43:32]  <pjones> mjg59: so obviously that doesn't work on dvi, since there's no hsync/vsync.
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[10:44:00]  <pjones> mjg59: ah, ok.  it's done as part of ddc/ci now.
 [10:44:04]  <mjg59> DVI is i2c
 [10:44:18]  <pjones^ so yeah, it's on SCL/SDA
 [10:44:23]  <dagb> xf86-video-intel/src/i830_sdvo.c got some if (0)'ed code which appears related, but blindly enabling it didn't do any good for me.
 [10:45:44]  <dagb> ah. ddc/ci isn't something the xserver or drivers handle yet, right?
 [10:46:02]  <mjg59> ddcci is basically unhandled now
 [10:46:09]  <mjg59> ajax has been looking at it
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[10:47:29]  <dagb> ok. to sum this up: my monitor will not suspend until ddc/ci is handled. Does that sound right?
 [10:47:37]  <libv> pjones: dvi has h/vsync
 [10:47:48]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I think the rendercheck failure is because of the bit depth
 [10:47:49]  <libv> pjones: CTL signals encoded on one of the wires
 [10:47:49]  <pjones^ yeah, I meant hdmi.
 [10:47:55]  <libv^ hdmi is the same
 [10:47:55]  <pjones^ too early in the morning, sorry.
 [10:48:18]  <pjones> o_O
 [10:48:32]  <pjones> it is?
 [10:48:57]  <libv> ...
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[10:49:21]  <JohnFlux> daniels: If I run Xephyr :1 -screen 220x320x8     (so 8pp) on my pc, then render_check fails with src transform coordinates
[10:49:55]  <pjones> libv: hdmi has i2c, but not vga-ish signals
 [10:50:03]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I'm wondering if there's a bug in the calculation of the translation transformation
 [10:50:24]  <JohnFlux> it fails for both a src and mask translation transform  at 8pp
[10:51:34]  <libv> pjones: 16:47 < libv> pjones: CTL signals encoded on one of the wires
 [10:51:58]  <pjones^ right, but not hsync/vsync
 [10:52:05]  <pjones> that's all I was saying
 [10:55:09]  <libv^ h/vsync are encoded on one of the ctl signals on one of the wires.
 [10:55:39]  <ajax> it's true, it is.
 [10:55:52]  <pjones> libv: yes.  but dpms is done with ddc/ci in the hdmi world, or at least that's how it seems from here.
 [10:55:52]  <libv^ if you don't know that hdmi is basically dvi, then why are you pushing this?
 [10:56:08]  * pjones sighs.
 [10:56:41]  <pjones> libv: I do, in fact, know that.
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[10:59:20]  <Turmlos> ajax: I'm getting this from commit b4fbc31e109f1efe78613597f9a91d5363523493: Function `xf86InterpretEEDID' implicitly converted to pointer at xf86DDC.c:250
 [10:59:32]  <Turmlos> 64-bit no like.
 [10:59:43]  <ajax> odd.
 [11:00:15]  <ajax> i bet i just neglected to declare it in a header.
 [11:01:12]  <ajax> try now.
 [11:04:01]  <Turmlos^ That did it, danke.
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[11:08:13]  <MacSlow> hm... the build did not automatically pick up the goffcie 0.6.3 from my PPA while trying to build gnumeric 1.8.3
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[11:12:08]  <stillunknown> MacSlow: wrong channel?
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[11:15:17]  <MacSlow> stillunknown, ups
 [11:15:19]  <MacSlow> sorry :)
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[11:22:39]  <arekm> "Unknown vendor-specific block f" what that edid f can be?
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[11:25:40]  <ajax> arekm: edid 1.4 defines vendor-specific extensions for the detailed descriptor blocks.
 [11:25:57]  <ajax> which, naturally, we don't have any doc for.
 [11:26:17]  <ajax> i should probably just hush that warning for <1.4 blocks.
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[11:39:50]  <JohnFlux> is there any point in xrender these days if everything can just go through opengl ? :)
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[11:40:23]  <alanc> opengl seems a bit overkill for just drawing text on the screen
 [11:40:26]  <ajax> gl still lacks decent subpixel antialiasing for text.
 [11:40:32]  <ajax> which some people care about?
 [11:40:48]  <ajax> that's about it though.
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[11:43:31]  <CosmicPenguin> Also, there still are some 2D only accelerators in the world
 [11:43:40]  <CosmicPenguin> surprising as that sounds
 [11:43:50]  <JohnFlux^ it is surprising :-D
 [11:44:03]  <JohnFlux> even mobile phones have 3D accelerators :)
 [11:44:05]  <JohnFlux> these days
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[11:44:31]  <CosmicPenguin> What an excellent attitude
 [11:44:49]  <JohnFlux^ I'm just teasing.  don't get annoyed :P
 [11:45:32]  <ajax> 3d accelerators driven by java.
 [11:45:36]  <ajax> how far we've come.
 [11:45:47]  <CosmicPenguin> It would be funny if it wasn't such a prevailing attitude
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[11:47:12]  <JohnFlux> CosmicPenguin: well the world is changing rapidly
 [11:50:43]  <aaronp> ajax: I'm looking at a bug where the DPI gets screwed up during RandR 1.1 screen reconfigs, and I tracked it down to the DIX ignoring the physical sizes passed in from the DDX
 [11:50:48]  <aaronp> How does http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/0001-Work-around-the-DIX-losing-mmWidth-mmHeight-for-Rand.patch look?
 [11:51:30]  <JohnFlux> CosmicPenguin: i've seen a tiny mobile phone arm chip run doom3 at 1280x1024
[11:51:56]  <JohnFlux> give it another few years and it won't be possible to get a 2D card :)
 [11:51:57]  <aaronp> It would arguably be more correct to have the DIX remember the sizes for non-RandR 1.2 DDXes, but that'd be a much bigger and riskier change and I don't think it's worth it.
 [11:52:17]  <CosmicPenguin> JohnFlux: I'll take you up on that bet
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[11:54:49]  <Lrrr> I would side with JohnFlux seing how 2D-only cards are actually more expensive than a average 3D-accelerated cards.
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[11:57:14]  <ajax> aaronp: curious.
 [11:58:15]  <ajax> the way i'm reading it, the client is only allowed to set "sizes" that you provided.  so is the problem that the dix is constructing sizes rather than asking the driver for them?
 [11:58:26]  <ajax> (i'm assuming the case here is 1.2 driver but 1.1 userspace)
 [11:58:29]  <aaronp> Right
 [11:58:55]  <aaronp> We feed it a size of 1000x400 or whatever for a TwinView screen, and it comes back with 380x300.
 [11:59:04]  <aaronp> (Yes, we don't have RandR 1.2 yet)
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[12:00:39]  <ajax> yeah, that seems fine then
 [12:00:40]  <aaronp> Oh, no, sorry, this is for a 1.1 driver.
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[12:01:18]  <aaronp> This DDX code isn't used for a 1.2 driver.
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[12:02:06]  <aaronp> Does this look okay for server-1.5-branch?
 [12:02:54]  <ajax> sure.
 [12:03:03]  <aaronp> Fantastic, thanks!
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[12:05:44]  <maniac103> aaronp: did you have a chance to have a look into the transparent window problem on 1.5?
 [12:05:52]  <arekm> ajax: http://carme.pld-linux.org/~arekm/x-dri2.patch so it won't yell about dri2 if built without
 [12:06:06]  <maniac103> aaronp: incase I annoy you, please tell me - a public bug tracker would be nice :)
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[12:07:31]  <ajax> arekm: done, thanks.
 [12:09:33]  <aaronp> maniac103: No, sorry
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----- Log file opened 2008-07-01T12:54 -----
[12:54:54]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | 7.4 blocker list:  http://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=xorg-7.4&hide_resolved=1 - pick a bug and fix it! | 7.4 release plan: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/033195.html.
[12:54:54]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[12:54:54]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp agd5f ahf airlied ajax alanc alanc-away alastair Amaranth anderco anholt arekm astromme_ b0le bartman Battousai bbyer bernie BlackEdder bobbens bryce caro[vtorri] cbrake chainsawbike cjb coling CosmicPenguin crossbuilder ctyler cworth cworth- cyber_fusion dagb daniels dante darktama dberkholz Dodji Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds Duke` dwmw2 dyek2 eboettch1r efw_ egbert emmes Erik_A__ erikg fcarrijo fredrikh glisse gmansi gordonj GuentherB Guest56053 gustaf1 hachi halfline Herman hw__ idr Ingmar jbarnes jcristau jg JohnFlux jwelsh keithp kem keram krh leio libv Liskni_si londo Lrrr MacSlow maniac103 marcheu math_b mattst88 Mercury mherrb mjg59 mm1 mmc mraudsepp MrCooper ndim nha nolan nomego OgreBoy onestone Ori_B osiris_ otavio pachi PauloZanoni pedroerp pete__c pjones psyquark RaoulDuke raster rvalles saschahl sbodo_w soren spb_nick_ sputters Statler stillunknown svu sxpert t4bz tango_ TBBle tcoppi The_Paya tibbs tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker warlock_mza wereHamster whot wien z3ro Zeddie Zhenech zhenyuw zuh zurgling
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[13:07:32]  <alanc> ajax: should xf86-video-mach64 & -r128 be added to the module list for 7.4?
 [13:10:02]  <ajax^ probably.
 [13:10:21]  <idr> anholt: You ever have issues with the screen brightness on the Panasonic laptop?
 [13:15:01]  <anholt^ nope
 [13:16:03]  <idr^ Weird.  It won't get full brightness in Linux.
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[13:16:45]  <idr> anholt: I can get the dimmest setting and the second dimmest setting, and that's it.
 [13:17:06]  <idr> And it worked fine on that /other/ operating system.
 [13:17:07]  <anholt^ jbarnes is responsible for our panel brightness stuff
 [13:17:24]  <idr> jbarnes: ping.
 [13:17:25]  <idr> :)
 [13:17:35]  <jbarnes^ hey, welcome
 [13:17:47]  <jbarnes> just fyi, backlight control sucks
 [13:18:12]  * arekm wonders if it's possible to increase brightness on hardware level, by adjusting some potentiometer or something (thinkpad laptop)
 [13:19:00]  <jbarnes> idr: what backlight control method does xrandr --prop return for you?
 [13:19:44]  <idr> BACKLIGHT_CONTROL: kernel
 [13:19:58]  <arekm> airlied: some drivers broke with new libdrm http://buildlogs.pld-linux.org/index.php?dist=th&arch=i486&ok=0&name=xorg-driver-video-via
 [13:20:11]  <jbarnes> that means X is using sysfs (/sys/class/backlight) and not accessing it directly
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[13:20:48]  <jbarnes> idr: what's in your /sys/class/backlight dir?
 [13:21:14]  <idr^ xrandr also says "BACKLIGHT: 3 (0x00000003) range:  (0,20)"
 [13:21:35]  <idr> acpi_video0
 [13:21:52]  <arekm> airlied: http://buildlogs.pld-linux.org/index.php?dist=th&arch=i686&ok=0&name=xorg-driver-video-i810
 [13:22:09]  <jbarnes> idr: you should be able to whack the backlight directly from sysfs too
 [13:22:12]  <jbarnes> to increase it
 [13:22:14]  <arekm> but this one is obsolete I guess
 [13:22:35]  <jbarnes> idr: afaik though 20 isn't usually the max acpi value...
 [13:23:03]  <mjg59^ It's a plausible one with recent kernels
 [13:23:06]  <jbarnes> idr: /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0 might have a max_brightness file
 [13:23:12]  <jbarnes> mjg59: oh right you compressed them...
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[13:23:18]  <mjg59> Yeah
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[13:23:45]  <idr> jbarnes: Both brightness and actual_brightness say "20".
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[13:23:53]  <jbarnes> idr: fail
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[13:24:56]  <jbarnes> idr: you could try exiting X, rmmod video, then starting X again
 [13:25:05]  <jbarnes> that will make it use one of the native methods which *might* work better
 [13:25:07]  <idr^ The only values that seem valid are 0 and 1.
 [13:25:22]  <idr> I'll give that a try.
 [13:25:34]  <jbarnes^ sounds like the acpi backlight method on your machine is totally busted
 [13:25:56]  <jbarnes> is it a 965 based box?
 [13:25:59]  <mjg59+ Sigh. What hardware is this?
 [13:26:12]  <mjg59> Yeah, maybe it's trying opregion crack
 [13:26:18]  <jbarnes> yeah
 [13:26:32]  <jbarnes> mjg59: guess we should push that soon
 [13:26:37]  <jbarnes> gotta figure out that weird delay on t61 though
 [13:26:42]  <mjg59> Yup
 [13:27:34]  <tjaalton> ajax: could you cherry-pick fbad87f2ae9f97fcb4 for 1.5?
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[13:29:28]  * svu would like to thank people who made latest ati driver - it rocks!
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[13:31:38]  <idr> jbarnes: Now it says "BACKLIGHT_CONTROL: combination" and "BACKLIGHT: 25000 (0x000061a8) range:  (0,25000)" but the screen is still dim.
 [13:31:51]  <idr> And the brightness keys don't do anything now. :(
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[13:32:24]  <jbarnes> idr: try xrandr --output LVDS --set BACKLIGHT_CONTROL legacy
 [13:32:26]  <idr> mjg59, jbarnes: It is "00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)"
 [13:32:41]  <jbarnes^ yeah it probably wants to use opregion requests for everything
 [13:33:29]  <ajax> tjaalton: looks good to me, done.
 [13:33:35]  <tjaalton^ thanks!
 [13:34:01]  <idr> jbarnes: Is there a way other than the keys to adjust the brightness?
 [13:34:20]  <dberkholz> echo number > /sys/class/backlight/*/brightness
 [13:34:32]  <dberkholz> you can get max number from max_brightness
 [13:34:35]  <idr> jbarnes: Now I get "BACKLIGHT: 55 (0x00000037) range:  (0,255)"
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[13:34:51]  <idr> dberkholz: ACPI already failed, so I rmmod'ed video.
 [13:34:52]  <jbarnes^ then xrandr --output LVDS --set BACKLIGHT 255
 [13:35:12]  <dberkholz> i have two of them, it's pretty sweet
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[13:35:24]  <dberkholz> /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0 and /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video1
 [13:35:29]  <mjg59> idr: You'll only get keyboard events for the keys if you have video loaded
 [13:35:33]  <dberkholz> fail on backlights.
 [13:35:58]  <idr> jbarnes: fail. :(
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[13:36:28]  <jbarnes> idr: teh suck
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[14:00:16]  <jg> ajax, anholt, anyone: is anyone working on implementing keyclick via audio these days (e.g. for touch devices)?
 [14:04:29]  <cworth> OK, so with ABI adventures sorted out, I at least have an X server that will run now---and I built all the drm-gem branches I could find. Here's where things stand for me:
 [14:05:17]  <cworth> 1. Ctrl-Alt-Fx have no effect for changing VTs, (though Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does kill the server). The server complains about not being able to find XKB rules at startup. Is that related?
 [14:06:09]  <cworth> 2. There are a bunch of redraw issues---like text just not appearing at all in xterm after running a command with console output. Only half of the text cursor appearing when backspacing, etc.
 [14:06:25]  <cworth> 3. Direct rendering is not enabled, (so maybe I misbuilt some piece).
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[14:07:53]  <ajax> cworth: 1) yes, it's related. 2) neat. 3) probably.
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[14:11:13]  <cworth> ajax: Thanks.
 [14:11:31]  <cworth> For (2) I'll have to touch base with keithp and anholt to see if this is expected or not.
 [14:11:58]  <anholt^ yeah, you probably need to just install xkb data in your prefix
 [14:12:33]  <cworth^ Should I just copy/link in existing stuff from the system? Or what git module do I need to build/install?
 [14:12:55]  <anholt> I forget if it's in git or not now.  xkbdesc.  you might be able to just copy it, I dunno.
 [14:13:29]  * cworth is happy he didn't seem to need to do any fiddling with fonts
 [14:14:42]  <cworth> "xkeyboard-config" is labeled as "XKB data"
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[14:15:30]  <cworth> Weird. That one's next to xorg, not under it.
 [14:16:38]  <dberkholz> yeah, it's a "separate" project.
 [14:16:49]  <dberkholz> still in xlibs cvs i think
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[14:18:40]  <keithp> cworth: you should build/install the keyboard files from the git repo
 [14:19:07]  <keithp> dberkholz: no, the xkb data moved to git a short time ago (weeks?)
 [14:19:48]  <cworth^ Is it this xkeyboard-config module I found, or something else?
 [14:20:19]  <dberkholz> oh it did? guess i'd better grab a clone
 [14:21:12]  <dberkholz> . already had one
 [14:22:56]  <keithp> cworth: xkeyboard-config is the one
 [14:23:13]  <keithp> that should fix the VT switching
 [14:23:31]  <keithp> getting DRM working should fix the weird drawing issues; we clearly need to fix up the 'fake' bufmgr to do more flushing
 [14:23:42]  * cworth can't figure out what he's missing for AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT
 [14:23:55]  <cworth> keithp: Ah, OK. That makes sense.
 [14:24:21]  <keithp^ the 965 doesn't do any flushing until it's told to, so drawing can hang around in the render cache forever
 [14:24:29]  <cworth> Oh, libglib-dev maybe?
 [14:24:39]  <cworth> Nope.
 [14:25:19]  <keithp> glib-gettext.m4
 [14:25:41]  <keithp> libglib2.0-dev
 [14:26:21]  <cworth^ Ah, it's the 2.0 I was missing. Thanks.
 [14:27:12]  <anholt+ I'd like to try to test the difference between automatic and manual cache flushing, and likely switch to autmatic
 [14:27:15]  <anholt> it really simplifies things
 [14:27:47]  <anholt> of course, the fact that we can't keep the hardware busy means that we probably won't be able to see any difference anyway
 [14:27:57]  <keithp^ manual means knowing how the hardware works :-)
 [14:28:19]  <anholt> but also having to manually flush after any rendering that touches the front buffer
 [14:28:28]  <anholt> we've had so many bugs with that, and we still do.
 [14:28:40]  <anholt> even on mesa master
 [14:28:41]  <keithp^ I'm hoping the 'gtt' domain will make this easy -- just have idle and swap buffers make sure the front buffer is readable from the gtt domain and that should flush correctly
 [14:29:08]  <keithp> all part of eliminating explicit flushes
 [14:29:09]  <anholt> nope, not enough. you have to do it after GL frontbuffer rendering, too
 [14:29:15]  <keithp> sure
 [14:29:24]  <keithp> although, my level of care there is quite low
 [14:29:38]  <anholt> it gives you bad rendering in stupid mesa demos, leading to bug reports.
 [14:30:14]  * cworth takes his car into the shop before the drive belt shears off entirely---hopefully I'll find network access there
 [14:30:30]  <keithp^ cell phones are everywhere
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[14:39:31]  <keithp> jbarnes: we have to use tiled blts on 945 in the kernel -- were the tile settings different somehow?
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[14:52:49]  <Liskni_si> keithp: what does "have to" mean in this context? why does it work ok without them?
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[14:54:56]  <jbarnes> keithp: 945 has undocumented tile blits?
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[14:57:20]  <GuentherB> jg: libcanberra does something like that for gtk+, I think
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[14:57:34]  <keithp> Liskni_si: perhaps you don't have tiling actually enabled
 [14:57:47]  <keithp> in which case, the bug would be in how we tell the kernel that tiling is set up
 [14:57:56]  <keithp> although, it is rather odd that the display is 'kinda' correct
 [14:58:15]  <keithp> jbarnes: not that i know of (beyond the weird bit-6 xor stuff, but that isn't relevant here)
 [14:58:57]  <Liskni_si> well, that would make sense
 [14:59:04]  <jbarnes> keithp: I assume you're talking about http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11016
 [14:59:10]  <Liskni_si> since 2.1.1 didn't use tiling, did it?
 [14:59:18]  <keithp^ correct
 [14:59:23]  <Liskni_si> (yet the picture was damaged)
 [14:59:24]  <keithp^ tiling is quite new for front/back buffers
 [14:59:38]  <keithp> oh. I wonder if the sarea value is just scrambled
 [14:59:43]  <keithp> jbarnes: yes
 [14:59:46]  <keithp> 11016
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[15:00:15]  <Liskni_si> (II) intel(0): 0x01000000-0x01ffffff: back buffer (16384 kB) X tiled
 [15:00:15]  <Liskni_si> (II) intel(0): 0x02000000-0x02ffffff: depth buffer (16384 kB) X tiled
 [15:00:15]  <Liskni_si> (II) intel(0): 0x04000000-0x07ffffff: front buffer (65536 kB) X tiled
 [15:00:22]  <Liskni_si> does this mean it's tiled?
 [15:00:38]  <jbarnes^ yeah but the kernel won't know about it unless the sarea is setup right
 [15:03:21]  <keithp+ but things work correctly if you simply remove the tile direction bits in the blt?
 [15:04:29]  <Liskni_si^ iirc yes
 [15:05:43]  <keithp^ ok
 [15:05:56]  <keithp> oh. the 945 doesn't appear to care about the tile bits in the blt command. weird.
 [15:06:09]  <jbarnes^ it seems like we shouldn't set those bits... setting rsvd bits has screwed us in the past ;)
 [15:06:21]  <jbarnes> on pre-965 anyway... so hopefully my patch will work
 [15:06:25]  <jbarnes> Liskni_si: can you try it?
 [15:06:40]  <Liskni_si> well, if 945 ignores tile bits, how are we supposed to use tiling right?
 [15:07:12]  <keithp^ there are registers which set tile access on memory; it may just use those.
 [15:07:16]  <keithp> I'm looking through the docs
 [15:07:26]  <Liskni_si> jbarnes: if i remember correctly, commenting those two blocks solved it for me, so the patch should work. i can test it, but let's think about some other solutions now :)
 [15:07:33]  <Liskni_si> keithp: ok.
 [15:08:01]  <jbarnes+ even if the front buffer is tiled, we don't need to do anything special on 945
 [15:08:05]  <jbarnes> our exa code doesn't either
 [15:08:43]  <keithp^ right. sounds like only 965 adds tile state to the blt command.
 [15:08:51]  <jbarnes> that's my understanding
 [15:08:53]  <keithp^ which is fairly dire
 [15:09:02]  <keithp> you already submitted a patch then?
 [15:09:06]  <anholt^ correct
 [15:09:06]  <jbarnes> yeah the hw guys must love us to change reg layouts so often
 [15:09:13]  <keithp> sigh.
 [15:09:17]  <anholt> adding those bits was so important
 [15:09:19]  <jbarnes> keithp: I attached it to the bug, just need Liskni_si's ack and we can push
 [15:09:25]  <keithp^ cool.
 [15:09:25]  <anholt> pre-965 is really crippled by lacking them imo
 [15:09:44]  <jbarnes^ srsly?  having the bits is better than "just working"
 [15:09:54]  <jbarnes> ?
 [15:10:01]  <keithp^ yes, right now it only works when you get the fence registers set correctly
 [15:10:14]  <jbarnes> ah yeah kinda figured it relied on those
 [15:10:16]  <anholt^ I want to be able to tile things besides front/back/depth, but not having the bits means I have to mash fence registers before accessing with the blit engine
 [15:10:16]  <keithp+ and, with a limited number of those, we're going to run into lots of fun
 [15:10:29]  <keithp> anholt: 'not on pre-965' may be our answer
 [15:10:42]  <jbarnes^ given the tiling woes you have these days, seems like we need some fence reg mapping magic
 [15:10:47]  <anholt+ I think so
 [15:10:48]  <Liskni_si> ok, so it's supposed to work correctly if we don't handle the tiling bits at all, and the patch you gave me is final, right?
 [15:10:58]  <jbarnes^ yeah
 [15:11:00]  <Liskni_si> ok
 [15:11:07]  <jbarnes^ we just have to be careful not to break it in the future :/
 [15:11:09]  <keithp^ oh, the bit-6 woes wouldn't be helped with fence regs -- this is all touching memory without talking to the GPU
 [15:11:16]  <Liskni_si> will apply and give you ack in a few minutes
 [15:11:21]  <keithp^ thanks.
 [15:11:35]  <jbarnes^ right but I thought you were only doing that beacuse you didn't have a fence to go through, but I guess you want to avoid the cache madness too...
 [15:11:41]  <keithp> Liskni_si: the patch should bypass the tiling stuff on pre-965 hw
 [15:11:52]  <keithp> jbarnes: cache and GTT mapping allocation madness
 [15:11:58]  <jbarnes> yeah
 [15:12:03]  <keithp^ of the two, the GTT mapping allocation is the hardest
 [15:12:23]  <keithp> using GTT mappings means having to deal with all of the mapping adventures
 [15:12:49]  <keithp> we'll get there eventually as vram devices demand it
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[15:13:02]  <keithp> also, front buffer will want GTT mappings to avoid clflush adventures
 [15:13:29]  <keithp> although, doing page mapping tricks would mean tracking damaged pages and only flushing those. That would also be interesting to try
 [15:13:32]  <jbarnes^ so have you thought much more about mmap'ing the front buffer?
 [15:13:44]  <keithp^ its pinned, so it's not too hard
 [15:14:06]  <keithp> for X, we don't have any choice -- we have to map it through the GTT so we get detiling
 [15:14:09]  <jbarnes> I meant the shmfs games & the special mmap interface
 [15:14:12]  <Liskni_si> oh what the fuck, git started to checkout all files when i wanted to go two revision back
 [15:14:21]  <Liskni_si> this will make it more than a few minutes :/
 [15:14:39]  <keithp> jbarnes: I think we just want a different ioctl for GTT mappings
 [15:14:48]  <keithp> leave the choice up to user space for now
 [15:15:03]  <keithp> given tiling, use space kinda needs to know whats going on anyway
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[15:21:15]  <Liskni_si> ok, works.
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[15:23:16]  <jbarnes> Liskni_si: great, thanks, I'll push to Linus
 [15:23:34]  <Liskni_si> np, thank you guys for a very fast bugfix :)
 [15:31:12]  <jbarnes> keithp: and you were just saying the other day how these stupid tile bits tend to screw people up :)
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[15:55:02]  <keithp> jbarnes: I know. tiling sucks except for how it improves performance
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[16:11:21]  <cworth> So if I built everything with an /opt/xorg prefix why is the server looking in /usr/lib/dri for i965_dri.so?
 [16:11:42]  <cworth> And do I use ModulePath to adjust that?
 [16:13:32]  <halfline> fedora specfile passes --with-dri-driver-path=/usr/lib/dri and --with-module-dir=/usr/lib/xorg/modules to configure
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[16:14:26]  <jbarnes> cworth: hm if you rebuilt Mesa it should have the right paths
 [16:14:49]  <jbarnes> likewise with X, though maybe you have an xorg.conf modulepath line?
 [16:14:51]  <cworth^ I did, yeah.
 [16:15:21]  <cworth> No ModulePath lines at all in the config file.
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[16:15:52]  <jbarnes> cworth: hm, weird
 [16:15:56]  <cworth> halfline: Ah, interesting. So I can look into the default values for those. One would hope they would be based on prefix though.
 [16:16:09]  <cworth> jbarnes: Though, hmmm... wait.
 [16:16:12]  <ajax>                           Path to DRI drivers (default: ${libdir}/dri)
 [16:16:22]  <cworth> jbarnes: I might actually be running the wrong X server at the moment.
 [16:16:31]  <cworth> So -EMYFAULT perhaps...
 [16:16:32]  <jbarnes^ heh that would do it :)
 [16:16:42]  <jbarnes> are you following Development/git?
 [16:16:55]  <cworth^ A wiki page?
 [16:16:58]  <jbarnes> yeah
 [16:17:17]  <jbarnes> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/git
 [16:17:28]  <cworth^ I probably should be. Just going from knowledge in my head, and what messages the computer gives me so far.
 [16:17:59]  <jbarnes> that's what I use for everything, it's been working great for me (aside from the makes-me-cry number of dependencies)
 [16:19:10]  <cworth^ I didn't manually build anything in the "building dependencies" list I think---but I did need to go out and install distribution development packages for those.
 [16:19:23]  <jbarnes> often that's enough
 [16:19:35]  <cworth> So we could make those instructions easier by giving a couple of distribution-specific commands for that step.
 [16:19:56]  <vignatti^ are you trying to avoid LD_LIBRARY_PATH usage?
 [16:20:41]  <cworth^ Not explicitly, no. Ah, I see that in the instructions now.
 [16:21:01]  * cworth should have brought a second laptop to the auto shop...
 [16:21:09]  <vignatti> :)
 [16:21:43]  <cworth> Though, hmmm... there are plenty of local-network machines here... so I should be able to use one as a terminal I think.
 [16:22:09]  <cworth> Anyone have a recommendation for a reasonable terminal emulator to install on a Windows box?
 [16:22:27]  <Lrrr^ Putty
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[16:22:43]  * ds seconds putty
 [16:22:57]  <vignatti> yeah, Putty.. well it's _reasonable_
 [16:22:57]  <ajax> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html
 [16:23:14]  <cworth> Seems quite unanimous then. ;-)
 [16:23:27]  <ajax> despite that i am no longer a windows sysadmin, that url might as well be tattooed on the inside of my eyelids
 [16:23:45]  * Lrrr tried to strace the X server and crashed badly...
 [16:25:27]  <cworth> Nice. Full-screen putty and Windows disappears.
 [16:27:25]  <Lrrr^ It's still there though
 [16:27:58]  <Lrrr> waiting to strike
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[16:31:40]  <cworth> Lrrr: Fair enough. Hopefully screen will protect me...
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[16:34:22]  <cworth> So in the log file I get some happy-looking drmOpenDevice stuff, but then "Could not set DRM device bus ID.". What should that tell me?
 [16:34:53]  <anholt> cat /proc/dri/0/clients -- does someone have it open?
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[16:36:54]  <vignatti> to test the last delicious of kms with intel I have to use which branch of ddx driver?
 [16:37:52]  <cworth> anholt: Hmm... Thanks. There is a /usr/bin/X process there. (I didn't think I had any of those running anymore.)
 [16:38:10]  <vignatti> is origin/intel-kernelmode?
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[16:38:34]  * cworth discovers that "/etc/init.d/gdm stop" isn't working
 [16:40:35]  <cworth> anholt: Good. Those complaints are gone from the log now. And my redraw problems seem to be gone as well.
 [16:41:04]  <anholt^ are you actually getting the driver you built?  what you described should have been fixed in master quite some time ago
 [16:41:17]  <cworth> I do still have "direct rendering: No" in glxinfo though
 [16:41:20]  <anholt> drawing-wise
 [16:41:26]  <vignatti^ do you know?
 [16:41:44]  <cworth+ Who knows back then. I was clearly running some stale pieces at least.
 [16:42:08]  <jbarnes> vignatti: yeah, intel-kernelmode
 [16:42:14]  <jbarnes> though it won't work with gem yet
 [16:42:30]  <vignatti^ cool, tkx Jesse
 [16:42:34]  <jbarnes^ but drm modesetting-101 + intel-kernelmode should be ok
 [16:42:55]  <vignatti> what is exatcly gem?
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[16:45:31]  <cworth> anholt: "cat /proc/`pidof Xorg`/maps" confirms that at least now I'm running the stuff I just built
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[16:47:29]  <cworth> So the X server is finding i965_dri.so in /opt/xorg/lib/dri, but looks like libGL is still insisting on looking in /usr/lib/dri, (and LD_LIBRARY_PATH doesn't seem to change that).
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[16:49:05]  <cworth> Oh, I bet I'm just not running my new libGL.
 [16:49:43]  <cworth> Yeah, that's it. So all looks happy now.
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[16:51:50]  <cworth> With everything working now, it must be time for me to start breaking things...
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[16:59:07]  <vignatti> where's defined the autoconf symbol XORG_DRIVER_CHECK_EXT?
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[17:07:00]  <vignatti> stupid aclocal..
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[17:10:16]  <antrik> what does ErrorF do?
 [17:10:32]  * jbarnes cheers cworth
 [17:11:29]  <ajax> antrik: it calls VErrorF()
 [17:11:49]  <ajax> ... which, somewhere down the line, prints the message to both the logfile (if any) and stderr.
 [17:12:32]  <cworth> jbarnes: thanks
 [17:15:13]  <airlied> arekm: so via is deprecated, and I think -intel needs a patch from its master.
 [17:15:22]  <airlied> I'll see if one of the Intel folk can do another releae for 7.4
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[17:15:32]  <airlied> jbarnes, keithp: ^^
 [17:15:49]  <antrik> ajax: OK, thanks
 [17:16:21]  <cworth> anholt: 2D performance does not seem impressive with this X server.
 [17:16:24]  <keithp> airlied: right
 [17:16:28]  <keithp> cworth: you're working on that
 [17:16:37]  <keithp> it's composite that hurts at present
 [17:16:42]  <anholt+ one might even describe it as "bad"
 [17:16:55]  <keithp^ "bad" doesn't quite cut it
 [17:17:01]  <cworth+ Switching desktops I can watch xchat repaint with a slow swipe, (though I don't seem to see the same with firefox or gnome-terminal, say)
 [17:17:06]  <keithp> "mass failure" or "bonghits" gets a lot closer
 [17:17:08]  <ajax> "embarrassing"
 [17:17:17]  <keithp^ "unreleased"
 [17:17:20]  <anholt> cworth: yeah, xchat likes to anger exa somehow
 [17:17:29]  <keithp> ajax: hence "not so embarassing yet, but would be if released"
 [17:17:53]  <cworth> And just over 10k glyphs/sec. with "x11perf -aa10text".
 [17:18:07]  <stillunknown> It must be doing something very wrong.
 [17:18:10]  <keithp> cworth: did we mention that you're first job is to fix that?
 [17:18:18]  <keithp> stillunknown: more than you can possibly imagine
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[17:18:49]  <stillunknown> What precisely is it?
 [17:18:59]  <cworth> keithp: Well, I'm running this server from boot, so it will pain me until it's better. ;-)
 [17:19:24]  <cworth> Though, since the plan generally involves making things slower first, I may not be able to continue with actually running those... :-)
 [17:19:25]  <keithp^ I'm hopeful that suitable incentive has been found then :-)
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[17:19:52]  <keithp> cworth: I don't think we'll be making things slower; our buffer object code is fairly reasonable
 [17:19:54]  * cworth wonders what x11perf did that suddenly made the backlight become insanely bright
 [17:20:06]  <keithp^ screen saver frobbing, probably
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[17:21:56]  <cworth> Oh, hey, I lost the "make capslock act as control" setting.
 [17:22:12]  <cworth> That is, GNOME still shows the setting as enabled, but it's not functional with my new X server.
 [17:22:27]  * cworth certainly didn't do all the XKB stuff right...
 [17:22:39]  <keithp^ failure
 [17:23:01]  <keithp> oh, you might actually try it -- mine still toggles the LED but acts as control
 [17:23:23]  <cworth+ and I built/installed xkeyboard-config and that got rid of most of the server-start complaints, but there was still a rule/xorg file or directory that didn't get created.
 [17:23:35]  <keithp> yeah, sounds likely
 [17:23:48]  <keithp> I think that's where compiled versions of the file are written
 [17:23:57]  <keithp> xkbcomp failure. mass. failure.
 [17:24:21]  <cworth^ Do I need to go build a new xkbcomp perhaps?
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[17:26:09]  <keithp> cworth: I don't know.
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[17:26:19]  <cworth> keithp: Yeah, I'll fiddle with things.
 [17:26:29]  <stillunknown> Sometimes it helps to wipe all xkeyboard-config data and start over.
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[17:26:44]  <stillunknown> I once had older data in some other folder, which interfered.
 [17:26:48]  <cworth> Maybe the system xkbcomp was building stuff into the system paths or something.
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[17:28:07]  <cworth> keithp: Oh, but you're right. The key is working and just also toggling the LED.
 [17:28:16]  <keithp^ we should figure out why at some point
 [17:28:29]  <keithp> our input handling needs some love
 [17:28:31]  <cworth> Other bugs I've noticed:
 [17:29:00]  <cworth> Some portion of the right side of the last one or two rows of the root weave aren't appearing on first paint, (I think we've seen that before).
 [17:29:20]  <keithp^ lacking flushes
 [17:29:41]  <keithp> do you have gem running yet?
 [17:29:53]  <cworth> Killing the X server unceremoniously leaves the hardware in an unrecoverable state, ("vbetool post" brings it back for a bit, but it quickly degrades to unusable again).
 [17:30:16]  <cworth> keithp: This is all the drm-gem branches, if that's what you mean.
 [17:30:54]  <keithp^ I've got a 'resetgfx' script which prods the PCI bus reset bits
 [17:31:00]  <keithp> but, killing X should work
 [17:31:05]  <cworth> xfree98 ??
 [17:31:45]  * cworth has /opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb/xfree98 but no /opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb/xog
 [17:31:48]  <keithp^ that's a Japanese PC-ish hardware setup
 [17:33:03]  <cworth^ Ah, OK.
 [17:33:21]  * cworth reads dri_bufmgr.h
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[17:36:57]  <cworth> So what's the virtualization of dri_bufmgr for?
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[17:38:39]  <egregorion> hi, there is a list for cursors name? I cant find it :-(
 [17:39:37]  <ajax> cworth: porting drivers from internal malloc-based management to kernel services.
 [17:39:48]  <ajax> afaict anyway
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[17:39:57]  <ajax> abstract first, then implement kernel services
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[17:41:12]  <cworth> ajax: Fair enough.
 [17:41:33]  <ajax> ooh, guess what.
 [17:41:39]  <halfline> egregorion: cursorfont.h
 [17:41:51]  <ajax> i don't think there are any users of kaa left.
 [17:42:03]  <egregorion> oh, tnx
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[17:44:19]  <Lrrr> ajax: wasn't JohnFlux using kaa?
 [17:46:05]  <ajax> not in-tree
 [17:46:13]  <ajax> and i think he ported to exa anyway
 [17:46:59]  <Lrrr> nvm then
 [17:47:15]  <cworth> ajax: Getting out the big code-deletion machine?
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[17:56:44]  <krh> keithp: resetgfx? no way, please share
 [17:56:51]  <keithp^ heh
 [17:57:17]  <keithp> sudo setpci -s 00:02.0 0xc0.b=1
 [17:57:17]  <keithp> sleep 3
 [17:57:17]  <keithp> sudo setpci -s 00:02.0 0xc0.b=0
 [17:57:17]  <keithp> sudo vbetool post
 [17:57:27]  <krh> oh
 [17:57:35]  <krh> that's easy
 [17:57:37]  <ajax> i feel dirty just looking at that
 [17:57:38]  <keithp> not complicated
 [17:57:39]  <airlied> ./throwbrickatgpu
 [17:57:43]  <keithp> ajax: you're welcome
 [17:57:57]  <krh+ it's better than reboot 20 times a day
 [17:58:08]  <ajax> keithp: hope you didn't have any emotional attachment to kaa
 [17:58:18]  <keithp^ we have seen the registers that should unwedge the chip without a PCI reset
 [17:58:24]  <keithp> uh, not so much
 [17:58:32]  <keithp> you already deleted cfb
 [17:58:37]  <ajax> i mean, it has the k in the name
 [17:58:44]  <ajax> clearly territory was marked
 [17:58:46]  <keithp^ yeah, if only exa retained the k
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[17:59:27]  <keithp> ajax: don't any of the kdrive servers use it anymore?
 [17:59:50]  <ajax> not since i deleted them all
 [17:59:54]  <keithp^ harsh
 [18:00:00]  <ajax> none of them worked anyway
 [18:00:17]  <keithp> hey, the mach64 one was working last I tried it
 [18:00:51]  <ajax> vbe modesetting though.
 [18:01:01]  <ajax> tsk tsk
 [18:01:09]  <ajax> anyway, no one's complained yet.
 [18:01:18]  <ajax> (not counting your complaint as a complaint, i suppose)
 [18:01:25]  <ajax> bus time.  later.
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[19:02:02]  <anholt> jbarnes: your blit change looks weird -- symlink replaced by file
 [19:02:46]  <jbarnes> crap
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[19:06:01]  <jbarnes> wtf git is all I have to say
 [19:11:02]  <jbarnes> there that should be better, yay for messed up changelogs
 [19:11:25]  <anholt> git commit -a -v ftw
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[19:18:45]  <jbarnes> I usually diff before commit by hand
 [19:18:50]  <jbarnes> but wtf this was so trivial
 [19:18:52]  <jbarnes> fail
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[19:25:46]  <otavio> Is compose.dir used only in case we're using xkb? Or xmodmap also uses it?
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[19:41:17]  <cjb> ajax: ping.  think you broke the server build.
 [19:42:02]  <cjb> or maybe tinderbox needs a dist clean.
 [19:42:11]  <cjb> koffscreen.c:319: error: 'pKaaPixmap' undeclared (first use in this function)
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[19:51:24]  <daniels> cworth: symlink /opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg -> /opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb/rules/base
 [19:51:31]  <daniels> or merely change XkbModel from xorg to base
 [19:51:54]  <cworth^ Thanks.
 [19:52:02]  <daniels^ make sure /opt/xorg/var/lib/xkb/compiled (or whatever XKM_OUTPUT_DIR was set to in the server build) exists and is writeable by root
 [19:52:04]  <cworth^ Is there a broken default somewhere, then?
 [19:53:02]  <daniels^ possibly in the autoconfig code.  hal works by default. ;)
 [19:53:34]  <benjsc> whot: ping
 [19:54:37]  <daniels> cworth: oh, configure.ac is broken.  feel free to patch it up in the meantime, but i've already fixed that separately in a branch i should really finish when i get back to the computer.
 [20:00:15]  <cworth^ OK, I'll let you get it. Perhaps I'll pester you if I don't see it land soon. :-)
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[20:04:22]  <daniels> cworth: always a wise tactic :)
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[20:15:44]  <cjb> ajax: hope the patch helps.  fixing up the server build when it breaks for obvious reasons might be a good way for me to use my time to save (people like) yours.
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[20:56:10]  <whot> benjsc: pong
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----- [2008-07-02] -----
 [00:10:12]  <ds> anholt: ping
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[00:27:39]  <anholt> ds: yeah?
 [00:28:25]  <ds> oops, forgot to unping
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[03:29:30]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[07:42:02]  <stillunknown> is there anything a video driver needs to do for a console restore?
 [07:42:28]  <stillunknown> (specifically a framebuffer console)
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[07:45:08]  <mjg59`> stillunknown: You mean VT switching?
 [07:45:18]  <stillunknown> yes
 [07:45:33]  <stillunknown> What i get is that the cursor is disable, but nothing else changes.
 [07:45:38]  <stillunknown> *disabled
 [07:45:39]  <mjg59`> General expectation is that you need to reprogram the console mode
 [07:45:51]  <stillunknown> Yes, but shouldn
 [07:46:00]  <stillunknown> shouldn't fbcon just kick in again?
 [07:46:48]  <stillunknown> (the fbcon is part of the same driver)
 [07:46:48]  <mjg59`> Well, some framebuffers (vesafb, for example) don't support any mode setting
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[07:47:09]  <stillunknown> mine does
 [07:47:52]  <stillunknown> Is there some way to poke fbcon so it knows it has to set mode again?
 [07:48:00]  <mjg59> Well, does running fbset work?
 [07:48:05]  <mjg59> Blind, obviously
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[07:49:03]  <stillunknown> I'll have to install it.
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[07:51:04]  <mjg59> It doesn't look like the fbcon code does a great deal of modesetting on VT switch
 [07:51:10]  <mjg59> But I'm not familiar with the code
 [07:51:35]  <mjg59> drivers/video/console/fbcon.c fbcon_switch() is probably the right place to start
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[07:57:46]  <stillunknown> mjg59: That's the function, but i really wonder how other drivers deal with this.
 [07:59:50]  <mjg59> X drivers almost all restore state, since there's no other way for them to work with vgacon
 [08:00:14]  <stillunknown> In this case it's a kernel based modesetting driver, so that's another game.
 [08:00:30]  <mjg59> Yeah. I'm not sure how that's meant to work.
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[08:00:32]  <mjg59> airlied: ^?
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[08:46:50]  <mraudsepp> So I upgraded to 1.4.99.905 from 1.4.0.90
 [08:47:06]  <mraudsepp> now I get no working display output at start
 [08:47:09]  <mraudsepp> http://pastebin.ca/1060455
 [08:47:28]  <mraudsepp> The log shows in EDID reading that my samsung screen supports 1280x1024 at most
 [08:47:47]  <mraudsepp> yet xrandr tells 1400x1050 is a valid mode for that, and picks it, and looses hard
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[08:49:11]  <mraudsepp> http://pastebin.ca/1060459 for xorg.conf
 [08:50:12]  <mraudsepp> I didn't get output on DVI-0 either (listed last in xrandr for some reason), that has a ton of available modes, with 1400x1050 among them - randr didn't activate any mode, while 1.4 started up with 1280x1024 in clone mode always
 [08:50:49]  <mraudsepp> I'd think the framebuffer width wasn't enough for the native 1920x1020 mode, but then it could have picked a smaller mode or go into clone mode...
 [08:51:39]  <mraudsepp> and I wouldn't have had to change mode blindly, as from console it doesn't work with "xrandr: Configure crtc1 failed" or so
 [08:51:56]  <mraudsepp> (when using --mode for setting something different than current)
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[09:52:47]  <ajax> cjb: indeed, thanks.
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[09:53:26]  <ajax> man.  if gene heskett asks you not to do something, you're pretty much obligated to do it, aren't you.
 [09:54:58]  <mjg59> If Gene Heskett asked you not to jump off a cliff, would you?
 [09:57:03]  <ajax> in that case i think i'd push him off.
 [10:10:02]  <ajax> clearly no one tests Xvfb...
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[10:19:24]  <daniels> you don't say
 [10:19:31]  <daniels> i think it wasn't even building for a month or so
 [10:21:00]  <ajax> aspartame:~% Xvfb :7   
[10:21:00]  <ajax> Xvfb: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_add_dispatch
 [10:21:07]  <ajax> (sad trombone noise)
 [10:22:41]  <mraudsepp> We use it in Gentoo for a few packages for running automated tests that need X
 [10:22:56]  <mraudsepp> but I think most of those just skip it if Xvfb doesn't launch or so
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[11:33:22]  <arekm> #define ABI_XINPUT_VERSION      SET_ABI_VERSION(3, 1)
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[11:33:29]  <arekm> is this correct on master?
 [11:33:40]  <jcristau^ yes afaik
 [11:39:21]  <arekm> ajax: any chance to see glyph caching cherrypicked to 1.5?
 [11:41:42]  <ajax> mmmh.  kind of large at this point.
 [11:41:46]  <ajax> really trying to wind it down.
 [11:41:52]  <daniels> yeah, just release it and move on imo
 [11:41:53]  <ajax> maybe for the inevitable 1.5.1 though
 [11:42:04]  <daniels> arekm: yes, master is abi 3.x
 [11:43:35]  * arekm building master with a hope that text rendering will speed up comparing to 1.5
 [11:47:47]  <arekm> master wants to use: chdevhier.c:45:35: error: X11/extensions/XInput.h but XInput.h is no longer there in master proto/inputproto, dropping that include seems to work
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[11:48:54]  <jcristau> XInput.h is in libXi
 [11:50:25]  <arekm> oh, then this has changed
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[11:53:14]  <daniels> arekm: correct
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[11:57:56]  <arekm> xserver/hw/dmx/input/dmxinputinit.c:868: undefined reference to `XQueryInputVersion'
 [11:58:00]  <JohnFlux> Hey all
 [11:58:11]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to build x with autoconf-1.7 (ancient)
 [11:58:18]  <arekm> some configure dep wasn't bumped?
 [11:58:24]  <daniels^ -lXi
 [11:58:41]  <daniels> JohnFlux: 1.x? wtf?
 [11:58:50]  <daniels> for autoconf, 2.59 is required ...
 [11:58:56]  <daniels> i'm hoping you mean auto_make_ 1.7
 [11:59:06]  <JohnFlux^ uh, yeah :-)
 [11:59:11]  <JohnFlux> automake-1.7 sorry
 [11:59:18]  <JohnFlux> It doesn't work :-D
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[12:00:49]  <JohnFlux2> bah
 [12:01:21]  <jcristau> arekm: looks like the xi check in configure for DMXMODULES wants xi >= 1.1.99.1
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[12:03:05]  <JohnFlux2> specifically in   libX11/src/util  it tries to compile makekeys but complains that:
[12:03:06]  <JohnFlux2> Commands were specified for file `makekeys' at  Makefile:531
 [12:03:17]  <JohnFlux2> but `makekeys' is now considered the same file as `../../././src/util/makekeys'
 [12:03:46]  <JohnFlux2> Commands for `../../././src/util/makekeys' will be ignored in favour of those for `makekeys'
 [12:04:05]  <JohnFlux2> then it tries to compile makekeys-makekeys.o  with no input files
 [12:04:36]  <JohnFlux2> looking in the Makefile it seems that there are two rules for makekeys-makekeys.o  - one with dependancies and the other without
 [12:04:56]  <JohnFlux2> I am currently think different versions of makefile behave differently when there are multiple rules for the same file
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[12:16:29]  <JohnFlux2> a makefile question please..  how is this supposed to work? :
 [12:16:30]  <JohnFlux2> $(srcdir)/makekeys-makekeys.o:
 [12:16:38]  <JohnFlux2> $(COMPILE) -c $< -o $@
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[12:17:08]  <JohnFlux2> How does that manage to work on new versions of autoconf?
 [12:17:18]  <JohnFlux2> automake I mean
 [12:19:25]  <JohnFlux2> $< means the prerequiste
 [12:19:34]  <JohnFlux2> and there are no prerequistes
 [12:19:43]  <JohnFlux2> so I don't understand how it's supposed to work :/
 [12:22:32]  <jcristau> Makefile.am doesn't look like that
 [12:23:20]  <JohnFlux2^ in libX11/src/util/Makefile.am
 [12:24:02]  <JohnFlux2> okay one second
 [12:24:07]  <JohnFlux2> something wierd is going on :-D
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[12:50:17]  <arekm> ajax: http://carme.pld-linux.org/~arekm/xorg-xserver-server-glyph2.patch using with 1.4.99.905 currently (jump from 70k/s to 300k/s in x11perf -aa10text on radeon x600)
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[12:51:02]  <JohnFlux2> jcristau: the problem came from http://users.freedesktop.org/~idr/crosscompile/lib-libX11-20060424.patch
 [12:51:12]  <JohnFlux2> a patch required for compiling
 [12:51:21]  <JohnFlux2> for some reason this works, somehow, on new versions of automake
 [12:51:50]  <JohnFlux2> This patch is linked to from http://www.x.org/wiki/CrossCompilingXorg
 [12:54:08]  <JohnFlux2> any idea who 'idr' is?
 [12:54:17]  <JohnFlux2> It would be good to update the patch
 [12:54:55]  <JohnFlux2> jcristau: are you able to modify the wiki?
 [12:55:25]  <daniels> fun stats for the afternoon:
 [12:55:25]  <daniels^ git diff -p xorg-server-1.1.1..xorg-server-1.2.0 | diffstat | tail -1
 [12:55:29]  <daniels> 1796 files changed, 77180 insertions(+), 111649 deletions(-)
 [12:55:31]  <daniels^ git diff -p xorg-server-1.2.0..xorg-server-1.3.0.0 | diffstat | tail -1
 [12:55:34]  <daniels> 97 files changed, 14694 insertions(+), 1667 deletions(-)
 [12:55:37]  <daniels^ git diff -p xorg-server-1.3.0.0..xorg-server-1.4 | diffstat | tail -1
[12:55:40]  <daniels> 1302 files changed, 52148 insertions(+), 49189 deletions(-)
 [12:55:42]  <daniels^ git diff -p xorg-server-1.4..xorg-server-1.4.99.905 | diffstat | tail -1
 [12:55:45]  <daniels> 1231 files changed, 102359 insertions(+), 284905 deletions(-)
 [12:55:48]  <daniels^ git diff -p xorg-server-1.4.99.905..master | diffstat | tail -1
 [12:55:51]  <daniels> 1286 files changed, 27164 insertions(+), 238647 deletions(-)
 [12:57:10]  <JohnFlux2^ sounds like you need a release soon :-)
 [12:57:27]  <daniels> should start rolling 1.5.99.x out much earlier
 [12:57:42]  <ajax> % git diff -p XORG-7_0..xorg-server-1_1_0 | diffstat | tail -1
 [12:57:42]  <ajax> 1092 files changed, 57184 insertions(+), 85058 deletions(-)
 [12:58:17]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: can you modify the wiki?  it might be worth fixing this documentation 'bug' incase someone else gets bitten by it
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[12:58:28]  <daniels> overall:
 [12:58:28]  <daniels^ git diff -p xorg-server-0_99_1..master | diffstat | tail -1
 [12:58:30]  <JohnFlux2> for some reason the wiki can't be modified
 [12:58:32]  <daniels> 2724 files changed, 175827 insertions(+), 590429 deletions(-)
 [12:58:34]  <cjb> JohnFlux2: Anyone can, you just need to log in.
 [12:59:20]  <JohnFlux2> oh, it says "immutable page" at the bottom - i thought that meant I couldn't change even if logged in
 [13:00:42]  <ajax> daniels: -400kloc is a good start.
 [13:03:00]  <jbarnes> so who's lined up to do 1.6?
 [13:03:22]  <ajax> I SMELL A VOLUNTEER
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[13:05:10]  <ajax> wait, no i don't, that's the smell of everyone running away
 [13:05:10]  <Dr_Jakob> first rule of #xorg-devel, do not speak about the next-next release of xserver
 [13:06:19]  <jbarnes> ajax: given how much I've helped with 1.4/1.5 (zero) I don't think I'd make a good choice
 [13:06:38]  * jbarnes looks at alanc
 [13:07:51]  * alanc hides
 [13:08:34]  <mjg59> jbarnes: Think how great it would be to be able to tell your kids about the time you managed the Xorg release cycle
 [13:09:17]  <ajax> if you don't have kids, tell your bartender
 [13:09:18]  <jbarnes> oooh, did mjg59 just volunteer?
 [13:09:18]  <CosmicPenguin> of course, the entire experience is likely to make you so cynical as to not want to propagate the human species
 [13:11:07]  <mjg59^ That's why it has to be someone who's already reproduced
 [13:11:38]  <CosmicPenguin> Just like 300
 [13:14:12]  ***  ajax has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 by Friday, we think | 2724 files changed, 175827 insertions(+), 590429 deletions(-).
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[13:42:38]  <jbarnes> anholt: have time to review my ssc patch?
 [13:42:49]  <jbarnes> if so I'll send you an updated one
 [13:44:34]  <anholt^ sure.  I'm crawling through my bug list today, easily distracted.
 [13:44:45]  <jbarnes> ok it's on its way
 [13:52:10]  <daniels> ajax: as i said at xdc, i'll happily help out whoever does 1.6, but i just can't do it myself
 [13:52:14]  <daniels> 1.7 i might do myself
 [13:52:25]  <daniels> we'll see
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[14:17:25]  <ajax> oh, libSM.  you're such a treat.
 [14:17:37]  <ajax> #define STORE_ARRAY8(_pBuf, _len, _array8) \
 [14:17:37]  <ajax> { \
 [14:17:37]  <ajax>     STORE_CARD32 (_pBuf, _len); \
 [14:17:37]  <ajax>     memcpy (_pBuf, _array8, _len); \
 [14:17:43]  <ajax> and then later...
 [14:17:48]  <ajax>                 STORE_ARRAY8 (pData, 0, NULL);
 [14:18:24]  <daniels> libICE maintainer, you say? awesome! thanks, ajax.
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[15:01:29]  <ajax> tilman: hey.  mind if i roll out an mga 1.4.9?
 [15:01:47]  <tilman^ not at all, please go ahead
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[15:05:07]  <astromme_> Does anyone here have xorg input hotplug (with dbus) working? I keep getting: Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.x.config.display0was not provided by any .service files
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[15:18:38]  <jbarnes> anholt: wow the patch I sent must be really bad if you're still writing review comments :)
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[15:26:45]  <anholt> jbarnes: no, I didn't get to it, and I'm meetinged in 5 minutes
 [15:26:58]  <jbarnes^ have fun
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[16:20:04]  <daniels> astromme_: --enable-config-dbus, i think
 [16:20:23]  <daniels> the server will probably only be using hal, and unresponsive to dbus requests
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[16:25:09]  <astromme_> daniels: interesting. if I put that hal .fdi file in the correct place, should it autorespond to hal events?
 [16:25:34]  <daniels> correct
 [16:26:53]  <astromme_> How quick is this?
 [16:27:18]  <astromme_> Meaning... how long do I have to wait (using mpx for example) until the cursor is usable?
 [16:28:01]  <daniels> sub-second, once it gets to userspace
 [16:28:47]  <astromme_> Fast enough to appear realtime to a user? I.E. if I create a new XI when I put my finger on my touchscreen?
 [16:29:51]  <jbarnes> ajax: wanna do another release of libpciaccess?  I pushed the resourceN_wc bits so write combine will work with 2.6.26+
 [16:30:15]  <astromme_> daniels: btw, hal seems to work =). Thanks
 [16:30:57]  <daniels^ cool, thanks
 [16:31:18]  <daniels> right, the limiting speed there is just device creation
 [16:31:25]  <daniels> the x server shoves it through really quickly
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[16:59:27]  <daniels> cjb: ?
 [17:01:07]  <daniels> oh dear.
 [17:01:51]  <astromme_> =/
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[17:05:46]  <tjaalton> daniels: hehe
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[17:07:01]  <daniels> tjaalton: i was going to go with 'noniin' as a better translation of what i meant ('cool' rather than 'good'), but i wasn't sure if it'd fit.
 [17:08:14]  <tjaalton^ I think 'good' fits perfectly :)
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[17:11:09]  <daniels> heh
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[17:42:25]  <knoppix> Hello? -anybody here?
 [17:42:54]  <astromme_> ?
 [17:43:03]  <knoppix> ok, I have a question about compiling minimal Xorg
 [17:43:17]  <knoppix> I tried to compile an "as minimal as can be" xorg
 [17:43:27]  <knoppix> and it failed with the following error
 [17:43:39]  <knoppix> make[4]: *** No rule to make target `../../../miext/cw/libcw.la', needed by `libxaa.la'.  Stop.
 [17:44:41]  <knoppix> the configure line was
 [17:44:58]  <knoppix> ./configure --prefix=/usr/X11 \
 [17:44:58]  <knoppix> --disable-aiglx --disable-composite --disable-xaa \
 [17:44:58]  <knoppix> --disable-xres --disable-xtrap --disable-xv \
 [17:44:58]  <knoppix> --disable-xvmc --disable-screensaver --disable-xdmcp \
 [17:44:58]  <knoppix> --disable-xdm-auth1 --disable-glx --disable-dri --disable-xinerama \
 [17:44:59]  <knoppix> --disable-xf86vidmode --disable-xf86misc --disable-xace \
 [17:45:01]  <knoppix> --disable-xsecurity --disable-appgroup --disable-xevie \
 [17:45:03]  <knoppix> --disable-cup --disable-evi --disable-dbe --disable-xf86bigfont \
 [17:45:05]  <knoppix> --disable-dpms --disable-config-hal --disable-xfree86-utils \
 [17:45:07]  <knoppix> --enable-xorg --disable-dmx --disable-xvfb --disable-xnest \
 [17:45:09]  <knoppix> --disable-xwin --disable-mfb --disable-cfb --disable-afb \
 [17:45:11]  <knoppix> --disable-freetype 2>&1 | tee server.configure.log
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[17:45:27]  <knoppix> what i wonder about is that i disabled xaa, but it is compiled anyway... :-(
 [17:45:58]  <knoppix> or, more likely, is tried to be compiled... :-)
 [17:46:00]  <ajax> don't do that.
 [17:46:15]  <knoppix> what?
 [17:46:40]  <ajax> i mean, what you want is this patch: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=4c4e06af7950df509fa02099788be66cf37a4d01
 [17:47:52]  <ajax> but it's almost certain that you're disabling more than you need, and that it wouldn't make your life appreciably better anyway.
 [17:48:30]  <knoppix> I have built yorg two times now using the instructions on linuxfromscratch and wanted to dig deeper and start with a minimal x to grow by time
 [17:49:09]  <knoppix> in the end it should be full xorg, but i want to understand what thing does what...
 [17:50:56]  <knoppix> ok, if I use the suggested patch, what configure line would you suggest? -./configure --prefix=/usr/X11 and let configure autodetect everything?
 [17:53:34]  <ajax> i'm probably not the person to be talking to about that.
 [17:53:48]  <knoppix> am I on the wrong channel?
 [17:54:19]  <ajax> (i ship an X server for my distro that i believe is about as minimal as one would reasonably want, and I don't think repeating the exercise is an interesting use of anyone's time, so I'm not the guy to ask for advice on the subject.)
 [17:54:58]  <knoppix> could you give me a link to this server (or the build-log)... :-)
 [17:55:15]  <knoppix> or give the name of this distro?
 [17:56:32]  <ajax> http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/xorg-x11-server/1.4.99.905/2.20080702.fc9/data/logs/i386/build.log
 [17:56:46]  <knoppix> thanks a lot :-)
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[17:58:55]  ***  ajax has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 by Friday, we think | 2724 files changed, 175827 insertions(+), 590429 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000.
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[18:00:50]  <daniels> jesus
 [18:00:58]  <daniels> tjaalton: http://testbed.fmi.fi/history_browser.php
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[18:01:17]  <daniels> tjaalton: the air coming in off my balcony has got about 5 tC cooler in the last minute, lightning out over lauttasaari too
 [18:01:39]  <daniels> ajax: heh
 [18:03:16]  <astromme_^ where is that?
 [18:03:56]  <astromme_> oh... Helsinki?
 [18:04:10]  <tjaalton> daniels: heh, I saw the flash
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[18:09:31]  <daniels> astromme_: yeah
 [18:09:35]  <knoppix> anybody else out there, who trie{s,d} to manually compile a minimal Xorg?
 [18:12:07]  <dberkholz> i don't do it manually, i use gentoo, but sure.
 [18:13:59]  <knoppix> I want to do it manually one time to understand all the dependencies from source
 [18:18:20]  <knoppix> so folks, i'm going to try ajax's suggested patch, but for this I need to reboot the machine, so goodbye to everyone and a big thanks to Ajax for his help
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[18:27:41]  <daniels> dang, rain's coming in.  gotta close the windows. :\
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[19:55:05]  <dberkholz> agh, look out for the xedit zombie!
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[22:04:18]  <cjb> bah, server build is still broken on sparc:
 [22:04:20]  <cjb> glxdricommon.c:35:39: error: GL/internal/dri_interface.h: No such file or directory
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[01:22:54]  <dberkholz> cjb: is it not installing mesa properly?
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[01:27:26]  <tjaalton> hrm, I tell mesa to use --libdir=/usr/lib/foo, and it installs stuff in /usr/foo
 [01:30:00]  <tjaalton> eh, "echo /usr/lib/foo | sed 's%.*/%%'"
 [01:31:52]  <tjaalton> that's what configure does
 [01:31:58]  <tjaalton> so the result is foo
 [01:36:51]  <tjaalton> ..when it should be lib/foo
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[01:56:47]  <tjaalton> anyone know sed enough to change that to "match up until the second /"?
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[02:24:41]  <tjaalton> ok, 's%[^/]*/[^/]*/%%' works but not if libdir is just '/foo'
 [02:24:46]  <tjaalton> but it's enough for now
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[02:43:53]  <benjsc> tjaalton:  why not just use /*  ie: s%[^/]*/[^/]*/*%%
 [02:45:39]  <tjaalton^ if libdir is /foo, the result would be ""
 [02:48:40]  <tjaalton> uh, autoreconf stripped all []'s from it
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[03:34:21]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:00:20]  <arekm> airlied: #if XORG_VERSION_CURRENT < XORG_VERSION_NUMERIC(7,0,0,0,0) isn't this commit weird? like, can version be lower than 7,0,0,0,0 somehow?
 [05:01:28]  <marcheu> like 6.8 or 6.9 ?
 [05:01:36]  <airlied> arekm: when building drivers agsinst older servers using that code
 [05:01:59]  <airlied> intel/radeon/nv can all include server code in the tarballs for building against older servers.
 [05:02:13]  <airlied> granted I just copied that from another place that did the same thing :)
 [05:05:04]  <arekm> ban old servers in new drivers ;)
 [05:05:14]  <airlied^ I wish :)
 [05:06:30]  <arekm> that's a way of promoting upgrades 8)
 [05:07:03]  <airlied> granted I don't think I have any 6.9 servers to support any more apart from secutity updates.
 [05:07:08]  <JohnFlux2> I'm getting the error "Line 15868 : ../../././src/util/makekeys.c:49: error: syntax error before "KeySym"      in libX11
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[05:11:35]  <Traintop> has anybody out there experience in compiling minimal xorg from scratch?
 [05:12:41]  <JohnFlux^ is it the same as compiling xorg? :)
 [05:13:24]  <Traintop> it depends: I want to compile xorg from roots manually with a minimal set of proto/lib/app/util
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[05:13:51]  <Traintop> I managed to get to the point where I fulfilled all xorg-configure-dependecies
 [05:14:13]  <Traintop> but there are dependencies that are not covered through configure... :-(
 [05:15:09]  <Traintop> it alway exit with a complaint about not being able to make "libcw.la which is needed for libxaa.la" although I disabled xaa per configure-option... ;-|
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[05:19:26]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: thinking of the devil
 [05:19:51]  <MrCooper> Traintop: xserver/configure --help doesn't show any XAA related options here
 [05:20:00]  <Traintop> jeah
 [05:20:08]  <MrCooper> (sadly)
 [05:20:11]  <stillunknown> Do you know how older exa's respond to a pixmap outside the usual offscreen area?
 [05:20:20]  <Traintop> but if you give --disable-xaa to configure it does not complain
 [05:21:00]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: will probably never be considered 'offscreen' and thus never a candidate for acceleration
 [05:21:05]  <Traintop> so even, if I'm not diabling xaa: configure does not complain about any unfulfilled dependencies, but in make it complains aubout not being able to make libcw.la
 [05:21:16]  <MrCooper^ I think configure just ignores unknown options
 [05:21:56]  <Traintop> if you spell an option wrong, it complains about unknown option
 [05:22:12]  <Traintop> so I thought, if it does not complain, it works... :-)
 [05:22:18]  <MrCooper> for --enable/--disable-foo?
 [05:22:29]  <Traintop> ja
 [05:22:54]  <MrCooper> hmm, odd
 [05:23:07]  <Traintop> but I do not want to go into deail here; if I can get xorg to compile with xaa, I do not want to complain :-)
 [05:23:39]  <Traintop> problem ist, make wants libcw.la, which (as far as aI know) is part of xorg-server
 [05:23:43]  <MrCooper> Anyway, yeah there's clearly bugs you're finding :)
 [05:24:08]  <Traintop> but it ist noc compiled right away...
 [05:24:32]  <Traintop> so how can I get around this?
 [05:26:49]  <Traintop> or is there an "official release" I can compile from source to get xorg work (with NVIDIA-kernel-module) and being able to run compiz and fellows
 [05:27:29]  <Traintop> I just wanted to compile a minimal xorg first to get a bit of knowledge about all the modular things in new xorg
 [05:27:41]  <MrCooper^ does it work if you 'make -C miext/cw' first
 [05:27:50]  <MrCooper> ?
 [05:27:54]  <Traintop> haven't tried yet...
 [05:28:43]  <Traintop> I will do now, but I have to reboot machine...
 [05:28:48]  <Traintop> will soon be back
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[05:31:16]  <marcheu> MrCooper: aren't you admin on the xorg list ? if so you should ban the d*ckhead
 [05:31:29]  <MrCooper> I'm not
 [05:31:33]  <marcheu> damn
 [05:32:05]  <MrCooper> wonder how long until she figures out she's bombing herself as well :)
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[05:33:41]  <MrCooper> though I'm afraid she won't care as she's subscribed to the digest
 [05:33:58]  <marcheu> blacklist ftw !
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[05:41:17]  <traintop> MrCooper: I tried "make -C miext/xw": it complained : cw.c: In function 'cwGetBackingDrawable':
 [05:41:17]  <traintop> cw.c:94: error: 'struct _Pixmap' has no member named 'screen_x'
 [05:41:57]  <traintop> if this is of interest: i am using xorg-server-1.4.tar.bz2
 [05:42:07]  <MrCooper> so you passed --disable-composite ?
 [05:42:14]  <traintop> mom
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[05:42:25]  <drago01> whats up with the "Fwd: xorg Digest" spam...
 [05:42:35]  <traintop> yeah
 [05:42:40]  <MrCooper^ there's a good chance things like this have been fixed in newer versions
 [05:42:57]  <traintop> I also have 1.4.99.901 on disc
 [05:43:06]  <MrCooper> drago01: she can't figure out how to unsubscribe, so she's trying to get herself unsubscribed
 [05:43:09]  <traintop> but this leaves other problems
 [05:43:34]  <MrCooper^ unusual build configurations tend to expose subtle bugs
 [05:43:36]  <traintop> with 1.4 I got the farthest way to a running server
 [05:43:37]  <drago01> MrCooper: hmm... ok
 [05:43:57]  <marcheu> I think I'll fwd her my spam too ;-)
 [05:44:14]  <traintop> this is my configure line : (beware :-))
 [05:44:22]  <traintop> ./configure --prefix=/usr/X11 \
 [05:44:22]  <traintop> --disable-aiglx --disable-composite --disable-xaa \
 [05:44:22]  <traintop> --disable-xres --disable-xtrap --disable-xv \
 [05:44:22]  <traintop> --disable-xvmc --disable-screensaver --disable-xdmcp \
 [05:44:22]  <traintop> --disable-xdm-auth1 --disable-glx --disable-dri --disable-xinerama \
 [05:44:22]  <traintop> --disable-xf86vidmode --disable-xf86misc --disable-xace \
 [05:44:24]  <traintop> --disable-xsecurity --disable-appgroup --disable-xevie \
 [05:44:26]  <traintop> --disable-cup --disable-evi --disable-dbe --disable-xf86bigfont \
 [05:44:28]  <traintop> --disable-dpms --disable-config-hal --disable-xfree86-utils \
 [05:44:30]  <MrCooper^ you'll need Composite for compiz anyway
 [05:44:30]  <traintop> --enable-xorg --disable-dmx --disable-xvfb --disable-xnest \
 [05:44:32]  <traintop> --disable-xwin --disable-mfb --disable-cfb --disable-afb \
 [05:44:34]  <traintop> --disable-freetype 2>&1 | tee server.configure.log
 [05:44:36]  <traintop> I know
 [05:44:42]  <traintop> Idea was:
 [05:44:55]  <traintop> I compile a minimal X so I can get GUI
 [05:45:22]  <traintop> as of now, the linux on my disc is without X
 [05:46:07]  <traintop> when I manage to get this "minimal X" (which I thought would be easier to compile as a full-blown X) I can work on this X to get the "right" X compiled
 [05:46:47]  <traintop> and this (last) one with GL, compiz, eyecandy, whatyouname...
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[05:47:51]  <nakee_> any chance that regina person can be stopped from flooding the mailing list with digest messages?
 [05:50:09]  <airlied> not unless daniels wakes up :)
 [05:50:33]  <marcheu> he's on hols afaik :)
 [05:53:35]  <MrCooper> surely there have to be other xorg list admins?
 [05:53:42]  <MrCooper> e.g. benjsc?
 [05:54:11]  <MrCooper> traintop: 'minimal == easier' is the fallacy
 [05:54:31]  <traintop> ok, than I'm trying to compile "normal" :-)
 [05:54:50]  <traintop> which server-version should I use? (which is the most stable atm)?
 [05:55:34]  <marcheu> also, I thought compiling xorg was an end user thing
 [05:55:46]  <MrCooper> the current stable release is 1.4.2
 [05:56:12]  <_bernie> and, speaking of annoying people, did serdarszl also ask your sex/age/location and keep bugging you even after you told him to go away?
 [05:57:13]  <traintop> I'm running off Knoppix now...
 [05:57:24]  <traintop> I can't find 1.4.2 on x.org :-( only 1.4
 [05:58:30]  <MrCooper> did you check the individual release directory?
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[06:01:18]  <traintop> ok, my fault :-)
 [06:02:32]  <traintop> and, to be correct: ist marcheu right? -so, should I ask on #xorg instead?
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[06:05:41]  <traintop> I thought #xorg is for "is my xorg.conf right?"...
 [06:14:04]  <traintop> so, I'm away trying to compile "normal": thanks a lot MrCooper and bye to anyone :-)
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[06:27:52]  <daniels> i've woken up, but couldn't think of anything more harsh than to just unsubscribe her
 [06:28:05]  <daniels> should send her all the nagios mail
 [06:28:45]  <marcheu> you shouldn't have unsubscribed, but instead moderated her postings :)
 [06:34:47]  <daniels> yeah, if i was less asleep, i would've done that
 [06:35:03]  <daniels> she can join deepak on the mod queue
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[06:52:04]  <JohnFlux> On an old linux system, I get the error:  Line 8582 : ../../././src/util/makekeys.c:49: error: syntax error before "KeySym"  in libX11
 [06:52:21]  <JohnFlux> Googling, I think I need to include keysyms.h  which is supposed to be generated automatically
 [06:52:46]  <JohnFlux> Why would this work usually on newer systems, but not on an old system?
 [06:53:31]  <JohnFlux> On a newer system but with an older auto*, it does compile correctly, but it fails to link:  libX11/src/ConnDis.c:1211: undefined reference to `XdmcpWrap'
 [06:53:42]  <JohnFlux> I'm not sure if these errors are related
 [06:54:54]  <JohnFlux> googling, it seems the error seems to be from a bad pkconfig or something.  the fix seems basically be to link in -lxdmcp
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[07:24:29]  <timnik> could anyone hint on calibrating evdev? Is that even possible?
 [07:24:57]  <timnik> um, sorry, in relation to a touchscreen (using usbtouchscreen kernel driver)
 [07:29:20]  <daniels> you probably want evtouch
 [07:32:33]  <timnik^ I have found lots of calibration options for evtouch, but I have not managed to make evtouch work. evdev works to a degree, out of the box. Do you know where I might be able to read up more on it?
 [07:33:30]  <timnik> I've spent the last 2 or 3 hours googling and haven't found anything on it yet. Lots of stuff on evtouch, but that's not working for me.
 [07:34:29]  <timnik> According to http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/manual/doxygen/fb_calibration.html usbtouchscreen provides raw data, so it's up to userspace to translate this. I thought evdev could do this?
 [07:36:40]  <daniels> er, that would be evtouch, instead
 [07:36:43]  <daniels> i don't think evdev can
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[07:37:34]  <timnik> daniels, ok, thanks
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[09:48:46]  <CE> Hi
 [09:49:15]  <CE> any idea why XRenderFillRects is much slower to an A8 picture than to directly to screen?
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[09:52:12]  <CE> is EXA capable of accalerating fills to A8?
 [09:52:40]  <ajax> not actually sure.  let's check the code.
 [09:53:33]  <ajax> well, it'll certainly attempt to put 8bpp pixmaps in offscreen memory...
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[09:53:56]  <CE> well, good news
 [09:54:06]  <CE> should I try to sysprof it, to see whats going on?
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[09:54:34]  <CE> 2500 small rects (100px) to screen take ~3ms, but to A8 about 35ms
 [09:55:15]  <ajax> that's certainly one option.  if you've got a second machine it might be easier to just gdb the server and step through the rendering paths for each
 [09:55:34]  <CE> oh
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[09:56:00]  <CE> well you know ... sysprof frightens me less ;)
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[09:56:58]  <CE> thx, cu
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[10:01:03]  <b0le> daniels: onestone suggested that I show you this (its a video of mpx and input redirection): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8bXfJhmOVg
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[10:03:54]  <b0le> daniels: is there just a few small problems that need to be fixed, in order (for the input redirection patches) to be in a state ready for merging? Or is there no way that it will be merged anytime soon?
 [10:03:57]  <CE> seems I am hitting a fallback, 80% spent in memcpy, 8% in compositesolidmaskss2
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[10:07:00]  <ajax> CE: mmm.  what's the blend you're trying for?
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[10:07:42]  <CE> I have a library which gives me scanlines
 [10:07:45]  <MrCooper^ EXA is capable of it, but maybe your driver isn't?
 [10:07:54]  <CE> and I would like to fill the mask with those scanlines
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[10:11:04]  <CE> its some kind of sad - scanline-per-scanline composition is slow, traps are faster (but still too slow) and the rect-approach falls back to sw ;)
 [10:11:28]  <CE> MrCooper: Thanks, I'll have a look at the intel driver
 [10:11:40]  <CE> do you think other drivers provide that feature?
 [10:12:06]  <ajax> i'm reading through the ProcRenderCompositeRectangles path in the server and really not seeing any cases where it should fall back to software
 [10:13:06]  <ajax> (this is part of the reason i suggested gdb; once you hit the fallback, you can get a backtrace to see how you got there quite easily.  maybe oprofile finally grew support for that though)
 [10:13:06]  <MrCooper> CE: what card?
 [10:13:15]  <CE> intel 945GM
 [10:13:41]  <CE> yes, seems I should really try gdb, I am just afraid about the learning curve
 [10:13:42]  <MrCooper> I thought it should support it with that
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[10:13:57]  <MrCooper> are you using transforms or anything else unusual?
 [10:14:52]  <MrCooper> ajax: sysprof gives nice call traces
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[10:16:11]  <CE> no, not at all
 [10:16:24]  <JohnFlux> rotation,  scaling?
 [10:16:25]  <CE> thats more or less everything I do: http://pastebin.com/m520abf00
 [10:16:46]  <JohnFlux> oh
 [10:16:49]  <JohnFlux> you use a mash
 [10:16:55]  <CE> maybe the alpha-color is the reason?
 [10:17:02]  <JohnFlux> mask
 [10:17:07]  <JohnFlux> CE: can you avoid using the mask?
 [10:17:48]  <CE> I only use a mask in the final composition step?
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[10:18:10]  <JohnFlux> CE: it's hard to accelerate blits with a mask
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[10:18:16]  <CE> composition itself is fast
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[10:18:27]  <CE> its XRenderFillRectangles (display, PictOpSrc, alphaMask, &setAlpha, &rects[0], 250); what gives me troubles
 [10:18:49]  <JohnFlux> fill rectangle is basically a solid blit
 [10:19:00]  <CE> yes
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[10:19:27]  <CE> without mask ;)
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[10:20:10]  <JohnFlux> CE: sorry right - i had to just check the syntax of fill rectangle :)  I got confused
 [10:20:43]  <CE> so the only two reasons I could imagine why this falls back is - A8 is not supported or my color-falues somehow confuse the driver
 [10:21:15]  <JohnFlux> A8 meaning  you are using RGBA8888 ?
 [10:21:20]  <JohnFlux> or similiar
 [10:21:21]  <ajax> no, a8 meaning a8.
 [10:21:30]  <ajax> eight bit pixels, each representing an alpha value.
 [10:21:54]  <JohnFlux> oh, nothing by a8.  got ya sorry :)
 [10:22:33]  <JohnFlux> CE: maybe render to argb8888 instead? :)
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[10:22:50]  <ajax> yeah, but this ought to work.
 [10:23:01]  <CE> hmm, good idea
 [10:23:01]  <JohnFlux> ajax: it does work, right, just not very fast, right?
 [10:23:17]  <CE> the only drawback would be wasted vram
 [10:23:39]  <JohnFlux> ajax: I'm writing accelerated drivers at the moment, and i know that I just skip any non-standard cases
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[10:23:59]  <JohnFlux> ajax: it seems quite possible that your driver writer just didn't think to handle that case
 [10:24:00]  <ajax> yeah.  the problem with render is that the set of "standard cases" isn't particularly well defined.
 [10:24:13]  <JohnFlux^ true
 [10:24:14]  <ajax> well.  one of the problems with render, for there are several.
 [10:24:25]  <CE> I uploaded the whole program to http://pastebin.com/m7bcc91a - however its quite ugly
 [10:24:28]  <JohnFlux> ajax: and there's a lot of cases to try to handle
[10:24:35]  <ajax> actually i think i might see the problem.
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[10:30:53]  <ajax> well, either mi or exa is missing an optimization here.
 [10:31:18]  <CE> mi?
 [10:31:34]  <JohnFlux> me?
 [10:31:50]  <ajax> "machine independent".  a rather bad name for some of the core object model and rendering code.
 [10:32:17]  <ajax> once upon a time it meant "code you shouldn't need to modify for your driver because it assumes almost nothing about hardware details like pixel storage"
 [10:32:30]  <CE> ah thanks for explanation :)
 [10:33:16]  <JohnFlux> ajax: have you tracked down the reason ?
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[10:36:35]  <ajax> maybe?  it seems like he's hitting miCompositeRects, somehow managing to miss the miColorRects path there, and getting into exaComposite.  which then throws a blend from argb8888 to a8 at the driver, and the driver probably doesn't handle that because it turns out the ability to render to a8 in hardware is kind of rare.
 [10:37:08]  <ajax> that he's not taking the miColorRects path seems quite wrong.
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[10:38:03]  <ajax> but the 'missed optimization' here is that the general case in miCompositeRects should try harder to match the source and destination picture formats rather than always doing argb8888 -> whatever.
 [10:38:44]  <JohnFlux^ i know that for our hardware, everything is done internally in 8888 format
 [10:39:10]  <JohnFlux> not that uh really helps you
 [10:39:15]  <CE> john: just to be curious, whats "our" hardware?
 [10:39:38]  <JohnFlux^ 'sgx' - 3d accelerator for mobile phones and stuf
 [10:39:49]  <CE> cool, thanks
 [10:39:53]  <JohnFlux> for getting accelerated drawing on 'embedded' systems
 [10:40:06]  <CE> do you know where the descisions happen which path is taken?
 [10:40:19]  <CE> I would really be interested in looking at the source ;)
 [10:40:31]  <ajax> render/mirect.c:miCompositeRects()
 [10:40:50]  <JohnFlux> CE: I don't know.  but I wonder why it went to exaComposite instead of exaSolid
 [10:40:53]  <JohnFlux> it's a solid fill ?
 [10:41:23]  <ajax> it went to exaComposite because that all mi knows about.  it doesn't assume an acceleration architecture, it just calls the screen's Composite hook.
 [10:41:24]  <JohnFlux> hmm wait, does exa have a exaSolid?
 [10:41:42]  <JohnFlux> ajax: sure.  but on kaa it calls the Solid hook
 [10:41:45]  <CE> hmm, not sure - is a color with alpha still solid?
 [10:41:52]  <JohnFlux^ should be
 [10:42:01]  <JohnFlux> uh wait
 [10:42:02]  <CE> well, than FillRects is alway solid
 [10:42:02]  <ajax^ "solid" here means "not blended".  PictOpSrc counts.
 [10:42:14]  <JohnFlux> what ajax said
 [10:42:23]  <ajax> PictOpOver counts as solid if alpha is 1 everywhere.
 [10:42:24]  <ajax> etc.
 [10:42:42]  <JohnFlux^ does it actually check if it's alpha is 1 everywhere?
 [10:42:48]  <CE> ah, so in this case its definitivly solid?
 [10:43:06]  <JohnFlux> PictOpSrc would be blended, no?
 [10:43:15]  <CE> as far as I know now
 [10:43:23]  <CE> not
 [10:43:32]  <ajax> JohnFlux: for 1x1 pictures, exa will read out the single pixel and simplify based on that, if it can.
 [10:43:36]  <JohnFlux> CE: is that a yes or no? :)
 [10:43:40]  <ajax> mi doesn't since mi can't get to pixel contents.
 [10:44:07]  <ajax> but the mi code _will_ try to reduce operations where it can.  see ReduceCompositeOp in render/picture.c
 [10:46:41]  <CE> so should I try to fix it? should that be even possible without any deeper knowledge?
 [10:49:02]  <JohnFlux^ I don't know.  i've only just started :)
 [10:49:49]  <CE> hmm :-/
 [10:50:15]  <JohnFlux^ PictOpSrc should just do source over.  it should not blend at all.  thus, afaics, it should not call Composite
 [10:50:20]  <JohnFlux> it should be using Solid
 [10:50:26]  <JohnFlux> (insert disclaimer)
 [10:51:22]  <CE> yes, thats what I thought too
 [10:52:08]  <JohnFlux^ maybe try to find out why it's doing composite?
 [10:52:17]  <JohnFlux> and fix that :-D
 [10:52:24]  <CE> I'll look at it, but I don't think I'll succeed
 [10:52:28]  <CE> I'll try ^
 [10:52:53]  <JohnFlux> yeah i know the feeling
 [10:54:08]  <MrCooper^ <ajax> it went to exaComposite because that all mi knows about.
 [10:54:44]  <JohnFlux^ yeah I didn't understand that statement
 [10:54:50]  <MrCooper> exaComposite treats solid fills specially but seems to miss this case
 [10:55:13]  <JohnFlux^ isn't exaComposite  a hook?
 [10:55:32]  <JohnFlux> nm, i guess whatever calls the hook
 [10:57:14]  <MrCooper> exaComposite is the EXA screen Composite wrapper/hook
 [10:57:48]  * JohnFlux nods
 [11:03:57]  <CE> looking at miCompositeRects I can't see how it could get into the composite path
 [11:04:31]  <CE> op == PictOpSrc is true -> miColorRects
 [11:05:19]  <JohnFlux> what file is that in?
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[11:06:00]  <JohnFlux> CE: from what i understand MrCooper saying, it might be more interesting to look at exaComposite and see if it's calling the Solid hook ?
 [11:06:21]  <JohnFlux> did you see whether exaComposite calls the Solid or Composite hook?
 [11:06:53]  <CE> but that should not be called as far as I see, if miCompositeRects is really the entry point
 [11:07:08]  <MrCooper> I guess by now you could have traced it in gdb ;)
 [11:07:12]  <JohnFlux> ooo
 [11:07:24]  <JohnFlux> yeah looking at exa_render.c
 [11:07:46]  <JohnFlux> it checks that the format is 8888 or that the dest and src format match
 [11:07:55]  <JohnFlux> ce: you fail both those conditions right?
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[11:13:03]  <CE> hmm, I guess I'll really have to use gdb :-/
 [11:13:09]  <CE> JohnFlux: where?
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[11:19:36]  <JohnFlux> CE: exa_render.c  in exaComposite
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[11:20:10]  <JohnFlux> CE: it might be worth finding out what your pSrc->format is
 [11:20:21]  <JohnFlux> line 621 for me
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[11:21:47]  <CE> ah thanks
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[11:22:46]  <CE> by the way, just tried ARGB32 as mask - made it only worse
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[11:25:16]  <JohnFlux> CE: interesting
 [11:27:58]  <CE> thats strange
 [11:28:05]  <CE> the part that is slow is composition
 [11:28:26]  <CE> however if I never call FillRects, composition is accalerated
 [11:28:30]  <CE> I'll really have to use gdk
 [11:28:37]  <CE> thanks a lot for your patience and support
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[11:28:53]  <JohnFlux> CE: good luck
 [11:28:57]  <JohnFlux> btw, Qt is better :-D
 [11:28:59]  * JohnFlux grins
 [11:29:18]  * CE is fonfused
 [11:29:40]  <CE> better than what?
 [11:29:48]  <stillunknown> I think CE meant gdb.
 [11:29:55]  <CE> ah
 [11:30:00]  <stillunknown> He wrote gdk, which is a part of gtk.
 [11:30:02]  <CE> yes, but Qt is really better ;)
 [11:30:07]  <CE> ^
 [11:30:24]  <JohnFlux> I thought he meant he'd given up with talking to Xlib directly :-)
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[11:55:54]  <CE> seems I found the reason
 [11:56:18]  <CE> my src was a picture created with XRenderCreateSolidFill
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[11:58:26]  <CE> when I replaced this with an 1x1 RGB24-picture, I get a 10x speedup
 [11:58:44]  <CE> and got rid of all software fallbacks :)
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[12:13:57]  <JohnFlux> ce: excellent
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[12:18:19]  <ajax> oh, yeah, the solid picture support is nonsense.
 [12:18:22]  <ajax> (still)
 [12:18:30]  <ajax> did i mention how much i like render?
 [12:18:35]  <JohnFlux^ lots? :)
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[12:19:34]  <jcristau> bah. the patch to keep the osmesa soversion at 6 was only applied on 7_0_branch.
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[14:58:04]  <alex-weej> daniels: le ping
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[15:00:03]  <alex-weej> http://pastebin.ca/1061548
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[16:17:35]  <cworth> anholt: ping
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[16:43:54]  <daniels> alex-weej: email me?
 [16:44:00]  <daniels> daniel@fooishbar.org
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[16:56:24]  <alex-weej> daniels: ok
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[17:00:51]  <anholt> cworth: what's up?
 [17:01:30]  <cworth^ Just trying to figure out what's needed for porting i965 2D stuff to GEM.
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[17:02:06]  <anholt> cworth: are you up and running with all the branches now?
 [17:02:16]  <cworth^ Yes, (finally).
 [17:02:37]  <cworth> I notice dri_bufmgr.h talking about "bo_validate" in a comment. Is that just stale?
 [17:02:44]  <anholt> yeah, that would be
 [17:04:00]  <cworth> I also see i830_allocate_memory_bo which seems to already be GEM-aware and i830_batchbuffer.c which is already using dri_bo_alloc and dri_bo_map, etc.
 [17:04:49]  <cworth> Meanwhile, i965_render.c has one call to plain calloc in gen4_render_state_init.
 [17:05:28]  <cworth> So I'm just trying to figure out what needs to be done, and then what I need to learn before I can do that. ;-)
 [17:07:21]  <anholt> gen4_render_state is i965_render.c state, while gen4_state is the card state you'll be playing with
 [17:08:37]  <anholt> so, in the gen4_state the surface_state will need to contain relocations to the actual pixmaps being referenced.
 [17:09:01]  <anholt> relocations are constant for the lifetime of the object, so you'll need to create new objects when all the slots in your last one get filled up
 [17:10:18]  <anholt> so gen4_state will want to be split up most likely, into things that are constant (all the programs, the vs/sf state, etc) and the things you'll be recreating over and over (surface state, vb)
 [17:13:15]  <cworth^ OK. It's got a comment saying as much, (and a pointer to intel-batchbuffer branch). Anything useful in that branch you think?
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[17:16:17]  <anholt> cworth: not too much I don't think.
 [17:17:18]  <cworth> OK
 [17:17:21]  <anholt> my personal repo has 965-render-vb branch which may be useful
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[17:19:49]  * cworth looks
 [17:21:09]  <cworth> anholt: Ah, just the one patch, right?
 [17:21:33]  <anholt> yeah, that's what I was last working on for 965 before I got distracted
 [17:22:24]  <cworth> Cool, a great place for me to pick things up then. :-)
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[17:24:37]  <cworth> Oh, we've still got an i830WaitSync on every composite?! Ouch.
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[17:25:03]  <anholt> yeah, that's what that branch was going to finally fix
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[17:27:50]  <cworth> anholt: So is the patch incomplete? Or just not debugged yet?
 [17:28:22]  <anholt> not debugged yet, but there were other issues in the way that got fixed.  iirc.
 [17:28:30]  <cworth> OK
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[17:36:47]  <vignatti> the directory of xkeyboard-config in git isn't inconsistent with the rest? it makes more sense to be inside xorg/app
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[17:47:39]  <cworth> vignatti: Yeah, that tripped me up too.
 [17:47:53]  <cworth> Plus the fact that it didn't have "xkb" in its name anywhere.
 [17:48:07]  * cworth expected xorg/xkbdata or something like that.
 [17:49:39]  <cworth> Hmmm... why might I be seeing non-antialiased text in "x11perf -aa10text"?
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[17:50:54]  <vignatti> cworth: indeed. xkbdata seems more appropriated
 [17:51:18]  <cworth> strace says "open("/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/charR10.pcf.gz", O_RDONLY) = 4".
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[17:53:45]  <cworth> Oh, it even says "Charter 10" in the display while the test is running. But that font doesn't seem especially useful for this test.
 [17:55:41]  <cworth> Hmm... the source uses this string to select a font: "charter:antialias=true:rgba=0:pixelsize=10". Am I expected to have some better font for Charter?
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[18:27:09]  <cworth> anholt: With your patch on top of drm-gem I overrun the ring and abort---leaving my graphics card unrecoverable without reboot no less. :-{
 [18:27:19]  <cworth> I like that ring dump though---very cute.
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[21:15:27]  <vignatti> daniels: ping
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[01:16:53]  <cjb> guh.  I think the openmoko's graphics driver only supports kaa for accel.
 [01:16:57]  * cjb buys one anyway.
 [01:17:50]  * cjb is disturbed to see OUT_REG(RADEON_REG_RB3D_DSTCACHE_CTLSTAT, RADEON_RB3D_DC_FLUSH_ALL);
 [01:17:57]  <cjb> (in the glamo code)
 [01:22:00]  <airlied^ nice..
 [01:23:02]  <benh> yuck
 [01:38:10]  <spstarr> i love long #define names ;)
 [01:39:03]  <cjb^ the complaint is more "what are radeon register symbols doing in the openmoko chipset's code?".
 [01:39:16]  <spstarr> FUN!
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[01:39:30]  <spstarr> git blame that? :)
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[01:39:41]  <cjb> maybe they happen to share this op.  maybe openmoko people were lazy and reused a totally inappropriate symbol for no good reason.
 [01:39:47]  <cjb> I think the driver was written by a single person
 [01:39:52]  <cjb> probably Harald Welte
 [01:40:04]  <airlied> I doubt it has a 3D cache..
 [01:40:09]  <airlied> the same regs as radeon
 [01:43:26]  <cjb> yeah.  yuck.
 [01:50:52]  <vignatti> I'll git-rm README.OS-lib
 [01:50:58]  <vignatti> any complains?
 [01:51:13]  <vignatti> it's a bit old
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[01:56:45]  <vignatti> better, I'll update it :)
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[02:09:41]  <spstarr> 590,429 lines _deleted_  my good goodness, great work!
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[03:05:51]  <atul_> Hi while starting Xephyer I got this Error message "Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! "
 [03:07:05]  <benh> hrm
 [03:07:23]  <benh> wtf
 [03:07:31]  <benh> nv in hardy now claims it found resource conflicts
 [03:08:20]  <vignatti> atul_: try to init with '-fp /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc/'
 [03:08:38]  <benh> X PCI log output is designed to be unuseable to track those down too
 [03:08:38]  <atul_> vignatti: ok
[03:09:02]  <benh> I would have expectd 1.4.0.90 to have been built with libpciaccess.. looks like not
 [03:09:53]  <benh> I find amazing the amount of junk X manages to spit in its log about resource mgmnt and still manage to make it totally useless
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[03:10:15]  <atul_> vignatti: How to do that new to linux
 [03:10:39]  <vignatti> benh: yeah, 1.5 uses libpciaccess
 [03:11:38]  <benh^ not whatever's in hardy
 [03:12:00]  <benh> and as usual, it totally fucks itself over on pci for some reason (which is fun as it -used- to work on that same machine... go figure)
 [03:12:10]  <benh> maybe somebody at ubuntu applied one of those half-assed crackpot patches they love
 [03:12:19]  <tjaalton^ oh really?-)
 [03:12:34]  <benh> looks like I'm going to have to build my own X again
 [03:12:36]  <tjaalton^ what's the problem?
 [03:12:50]  <benh^ nv won't initialize, claims resource conflicts
 [03:13:05]  <benh> but X log regarding PCI resources is mostly unuseable to figure out what it thinks are conflicts and how it ended thinking that
 [03:13:08]  <tjaalton> there are no crackpot changes other than patches backported from upstream and a few stolen from fedora
 [03:13:21]  <benh^ beware of the fedora ones ;-)
 [03:13:34]  <benh> I have bad memories of distro (ubuntu & debian mostly) carrying some totally broken pci domain patches
 [03:13:40]  <benh> which did qualify as crackpot :-)
 [03:13:47]  <benh> dunno if that's it, I suppose I'll have to debug
 [03:13:58]  <tjaalton> which nv is this?
 [03:14:00]  <tjaalton> version
 [03:14:15]  <benh> why don't you guys build it with libpciaccess ? that solves most problems in my experience
 [03:14:18]  <tjaalton^ it was 2yrs ago ;)
 [03:14:21]  <benh> not like ubuntu cares about supporting alpha
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[03:14:46]  <tjaalton> 1.4.0.90 does not support pciaccess
 [03:14:53]  <benh> nv is 2.1.8
 [03:14:55]  <tjaalton> 1.5 does
 [03:15:01]  <tjaalton> (and rc)
 [03:15:18]  <tjaalton> so how did it break?
 [03:15:19]  <benh> ok, anyway, it used to work on those quad G5s
 [03:15:22]  <tjaalton> if it used to work
 [03:15:24]  <benh> this is a standard quad G5 setup
 [03:15:30]  <benh> gutsy -> hardy here
 [03:15:38]  <benh> tho I think my home one works and it's early hardy
 [03:15:46]  <benh> so it could be a recent update or something else, not sure
 [03:15:59]  <benh> I'm also running a newer kernel (home compiled), could be X puking at some stuff there
 [03:16:02]  <tjaalton> ok, in that case it would be nice to know for sure
 [03:16:09]  <benh> I'll have to track it down
 [03:16:13]  <tjaalton> thanks ;)
 [03:16:23]  <benh> yeah but you know how hard it's to figure anything out of X old PCI code :-)
 [03:16:35]  <benh> is there a "ignore conflicts and shut up" option ? :-)
 [03:16:47]  <vignatti> nice. More code deleted :)
 [03:17:49]  <benh> tjaalton: no idea, the log is meaningless
 [03:18:00]  <benh> it claims some resource allocations are invalid... while they are perfectly valid
 [03:18:15]  <benh> tjaalton: means I'll have to resort to gdb or printf
 [03:19:00]  <tjaalton^ test with 8.04.1 livecd to be sure it's not your kernel..
 [03:19:16]  <benh> could be
 [03:19:18]  <benh> oh oh
 [03:19:27]  <benh> I have the card in one of the x8 slots
 [03:19:27]  <benh> aha
 [03:19:30]  <benh> that may explain, it ends up on domain 1
 [03:19:39]  <benh> let me put it back into the domain 0 slot
 [03:19:42]  <benh> that will help
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[03:19:52]  <benh> I used to run my own builds on gutsy with pciaccess so that worked
 [03:20:21]  <benh> old PCI code totally craps out on domains
 [03:20:33]  <tjaalton> ok..
 [03:22:22]  <benh> I'll also remove the r6xx I have in there for toying with ATOM BIOS :-)
 [03:22:23]  <benh> for now
 [03:22:27]  <benh> until I rebuild a decent server
 [03:23:28]  <benh> ah works now
 [03:23:31]  <arekm> was there a program in xorg to make screenshot of fullscreen from cmdline?
 [03:23:49]  <benh> brb
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[03:29:30]  <arekm> found, xwd
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[03:33:47]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:40:37]  <MrCooper> hmm, is cworth with Intel now?
 [03:41:50]  <ajax> yep.
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[03:42:51]  <ajax> left rh a week or two ago.
 [03:44:04]  <ajax> we miss him already ;)
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[03:44:42]  <atul_> /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc and /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic Hi this package is not available in my system How to install them any Idea ?
 [03:47:20]  <tjaalton^ depends on your distro
 [03:47:49]  <atul_^ am using ubuntu hardy 8.10
 [03:48:19]  <tjaalton^ xfonts-base, xfonts-cyrillic
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[03:49:22]  <atul_> tjaalton: thanks
 [03:49:55]  <MrCooper> ajax: is there anybody on the west coast they haven't hired yet? ;)
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[03:51:26]  <benh> atul_: hardy is 8.04 no ?
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[03:52:00]  <atul_> benh, yes sorry for mistake
 [03:52:10]  <tjaalton^ np
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[05:12:09]  <dberkholz> ssp: the logic's broken in the sse/mmx enabling in pixman. for example, passing --enable-sse2 actually forces it off and vice versa.
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[05:14:53]  <dberkholz> ssp: mind if i commit a fix?
 [05:15:39]  <JohnFlux^
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[06:07:07]  <ssp> dberkholz: No, go ahead
 [06:07:47]  <ssp> Though, I definitely did test --disable-sse2
 [06:10:10]  <ssp> Looking at the code, it doesn't seem broken to me
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[06:41:25]  <maniac103> mjg59: ping
 [06:44:21]  <mjg59^ Hi
 [06:44:39]  <maniac103^ Re: LKML thread about video.ko ;-)
 [06:45:06]  <maniac103> I was just wondering when we could expect the functionality of Thomas' patches in Linus' kernel tree
 [06:45:22]  <maniac103> (because I happen to own a machine that's broken _now_)
 [06:45:39]  <mjg59^ When the opregion code works
 [06:45:53]  <mjg59> The patch that actually fixes things is my patch, incidentally :)
 [06:46:11]  <maniac103^ I know :)
 [06:46:26]  <maniac103> Thomas is playing advocate for people like me ;-)
 [06:46:28]  <mjg59> Thomas's original one would have broken machines with discrete graphics hardware
 [06:46:39]  <mjg59> maniac103: You have a T61?
 [06:47:26]  <maniac103^ no, a Toshiba with discrete hardware ;-) ... I get two ACPI brightness change notifications per brightness button press ATM due to the duplicate devices
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[06:47:37]  <mjg59> Ah
 [06:48:35]  <maniac103> I can live with only having 3 levels of brightness because of that (instead of the normal 8), I just wanted to know if there's any schedule for getting it fixed properly
 [06:48:45]  <mjg59^ Anyway, I'll try to get the opregion code working this week
 [06:49:01]  <mjg59> Then it can all get merged
 [06:49:21]  <maniac103^ oh, cool :-) so the schedule is "2.6.27 or 2.6.28" or something like that?
 [06:52:29]  <mjg59> 2.6.27 with luck
 [06:52:39]  <maniac103^ great, thanks :-)
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[09:45:39]  <JohnFlux> Compiling the xserver, I've got the error:  Use of uninitialized value in hash element at /usr/local/xserver-buildtools/bin//automake line 1241.
 [09:45:49]  <JohnFlux> googling I've found this error come up a few times
 [09:45:58]  <JohnFlux> but with no resolution
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[09:46:42]  <JohnFlux> the next error is  automake: unused variable: `DRI_SOURCES'
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[09:47:12]  <JohnFlux> i have --disable-dri  which might be why
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[09:55:13]  <daniels> hm, unused variable shouldn't be an error
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[10:22:11]  <JohnFlux> daniels:  xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/Makefile.am    uses DRI_SUBDIRS   which seems to be not defined if dri is disabled
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[13:04:33]  <KrimReaper> any1 know how to convert a bitmap into a pixmap and keep it color ???
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[13:06:58]  <KrimReaper> i believe its an xbitmap which is only black and white so i need a way to use convert a 24bit bitmap to a pixmap for my window icon ???
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[13:54:14]  <KrimReaper> what would be the best way to get a color icon for my window ?
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[14:46:10]  <murrant> I've got an xevent with type=22 (base=115) how can I figure out what type it is?
 [14:46:26]  <Lrrr^ Checked the protocol specs?
 [14:49:10]  <murrant> where can those be found at?
 [14:51:02]  <Lrrr> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/doc/xorg-docs.git;a=blob_plain;h=a8160221019d0444329e481f3f40e12991a06634;f=hardcopy/XProtocol/proto.PS.gz
 [14:51:20]  <Lrrr> I suppose types and such are written somewhere there.
 [14:53:59]  <murrant> ty
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[18:09:04]  <astromme_> Are there any api docs for XInput (Older is fine but I would be thrilled to find docs for XInput 2/MPX)?
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[18:23:13]  <stillunknown> Does anyone what could cause to end up on VT8 for no apparent reason sometimes?
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[19:45:59]  <dberkholz> any specific radeons anyone could recommend for dualhead?
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[19:58:01]  <dberkholz> astromme_: xorg-docs repo, specs/Xi/protocol.xml
 [19:58:26]  <dberkholz> hopefully there's useful stuff around there
 [19:58:52]  <astromme_^ I'll check it out, thanks
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[20:06:44]  <astromme_> dberkholz: Ok, this looks like what I want, but what's the easiest way to view it? if I ./autogen.sh; make install; it installs some smgl files? how do I view those?
 [20:10:00]  <dberkholz^ xmlto
 [20:10:13]  <dberkholz> just go into the dir with that xml file and run something like xmlto pdf protocol.xml
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[20:19:00]  <astromme_> hmm, xmlto pdf didn't work but html did
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[21:28:14]  <PauloZanoni> contraventor: /var/log/mdm/start-seat-X.log corresponde a cabepp wa onde vc teve que apertar FX no tecladois matching "lspci -n" with the files in /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/*.ids a reliable way to discover video cards and their drivers?
 [21:28:47]  <PauloZanoni> sorry.... accidentally pasted stuff
 [21:29:32]  <PauloZanoni> what I wanted to ask was: is matching "lspci -n" with the files in /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/*.ids a reliable way to discover video cards and their drivers?
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[22:18:20]  <jbarnes> airlied, daniels: ok keithp forced me to setup a blog, if appropriate can you link it to your respective planets?  http://virtuousgeek.org/blog/index.php?blog=2
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[22:27:58]  <jbarnes> airlied, daniels: or http://www.virtuousgeek.org/blog/index.php?blog=2&tempskin=rss for rss
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[02:44:41]  <airlied> dberkholz: most radeons should do dual head fine.
 [02:48:56]  <dberkholz^ i'm apparently fortunate enough to be configuring one of the few that doesn't -- rs480
 [02:49:19]  <airlied^ not so much a real graphics card..
 [02:49:28]  <dberkholz> figure i'll just tell 'em to buy a newer card instead of fiddle with that anymore
 [02:49:37]  <airlied^ rs480 is a chipset
 [02:49:46]  <airlied> hopefully they have a pcie slot
 [02:49:47]  <dberkholz> r500 stuff should work fine by now, right?
 [02:49:55]  <airlied^ yup..
 [02:51:06]  <dberkholz^ r600 stuff is still all on a branch?
 [02:51:18]  <airlied> nope the mode setting is all in 6.9.0
 [02:51:29]  <airlied> r600 3D is still under development.
 [02:51:37]  <dberkholz> oh, ok. i thought i'd seen an r600-support branch.  that's 3d only, though
 [02:52:06]  <dberkholz> maybe i'll have 'em buy r600 then. probably easier to find at the local store.
 [02:52:45]  <airlied> yeah should be easier to just pick up.
 [02:52:52]  <airlied> have they an rs480 DVI or something..
 [02:53:01]  <airlied> not sure Alex ever got the answers on how that works
 [02:53:25]  <dberkholz> yeah, it's got dvi + vga
 [02:54:05]  <dberkholz> airlied: should your recent mode-selection commit go into 1.5?
 [02:54:32]  <airlied^ I've asked ajax to review it..
 [02:54:47]  <airlied> it could probablyt do with some more work but its certainly better than what is there now..
 [02:54:57]  <airlied> without it preferred mode just doesn't work for multiple monitors
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[04:13:20]  <keithp> jbarnes: daniels owns the planets; he should be able to hook you up
 [04:16:02]  <dberkholz^ jbarnes: i've got planet fdo foo
 [04:16:13]  <keithp^ no wayz
 [04:16:27]  <keithp> feel like planetizing jbarnes?
 [04:17:17]  <dberkholz> done
 [04:18:10]  <dberkholz> we'll see if the planet has love for rss2, or if i have to switch to atom.
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[04:24:47]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: ok, your blog's showing up on planet fdo now
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[04:33:42]  <keithp> dberkholz: thanks muchly
 [04:34:05]  <keithp> jbarnes: now we just need the rest of the team blogging every week. we'll own the planet
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[09:49:25]  <Herman> (945GM with intel driver from pretty recent git, kernel 2.6.26-rc7) when I can't get the backlight as bright as before, coult it be the video driver or the kernel? a few versions ago I could get the screen brighter (sometimes required a suspend-to-ram before) but now I'm stuck with pretty weak brightness despite xbacklight sais 100
 [09:50:27]  <jcristau^ try playing with the BACKLIGHT_CONTROL and BACKLIGHT randr properties
 [09:51:29]  <Herman^ okay!
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[12:03:06]  <jbarnes> dberkholz: thanks
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[14:12:35]  <jcristau> vignatti: vignatti@fd.o seems to redirect to a nonexistent address (tv02@c3sl.ufpr.br bounces). can you fix that?
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[16:25:15]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: hmm. how's your blog look through your planet.fdo rss subscription? it's mangled here, and i'm unsure whether it's the planet or google reader
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[17:10:42]  <jbarnes> dberkholz: doesn't work for me
 [17:11:01]  <jbarnes> I'm using b2evo, theoretically it supports rss & atom if that helps
 [17:13:13]  <jbarnes> tempskin=_rss2 needs to be added to the url
 [17:24:10]  <dberkholz^ it started out on there, then i switched to atom and that wasn't any better
 [17:24:32]  <dberkholz> both of them "worked" in that i got text, but they looked like crap (totally unformatted)
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[18:32:58]  <Pupeno> I've modified /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/us, what should I do for the changes to be picked up?
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[18:36:35]  <dberkholz> run setxkbmap with the appropriate parameters or restart X
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[18:47:35]  <Pupeno> dberkholz: what about /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols.dir?
 [18:47:48]  <dberkholz> what about it?
 [18:48:28]  <Pupeno^ shouldn't it be updated with the new layout
 [18:48:29]  <Pupeno> ?
 [18:48:42]  <dberkholz> i'm not sure what uses that file
 [18:48:52]  <dberkholz> dig around a bit
 [18:48:55]  <Pupeno> ok
 [18:49:00]  * Pupeno restarts X
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[18:56:35]  <Pupeno> Restarting X wasn't enough for the Ubuntu configuration tool to show the new layout. Are you sure I don't have to compile it or anything?
 [19:01:29]  <dberkholz> for the config tool you'll probably need to add more crap to files.
[19:01:37]  <dberkholz> no idea which.
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[19:14:21]  <Pupeno> Working, not sure about the config dialog though.
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[21:18:34]  <vignatti> jcristau: hi julien
 [21:18:50]  <vignatti> do you know how to change kemper.fd.o mail adress?
 [21:19:02]  <vignatti> I thought it was the same mail use in fd.o's ldap
 [21:19:18]  <vignatti> jcristau: and thanks for point me about that wrong commit. I'll revert it
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----- [2008-07-06] -----
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[02:16:06]  <aaronp> "XML Parsing Error: not well-formed
 [02:16:07]  <aaronp> Location: http://planet.freedesktop.org/rss10.xml"
 [02:17:50]  <aaronp> (it doesn't like the '&' in the <link> tag in the "Jesse Barnes: a bit of history" article)
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[02:30:59]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: ^^ -- you need to use &amp; instead of & in your links
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[09:42:24]  <doomster> hi!
 [09:44:15]  <doomster> I'm looking for a way to do something every second, like setting a timer. I looked at the sources for xclock and oclock but those are rather hard to understand...
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[09:49:15]  <daniels> doomster: if you mean in a client, use something like glib with gtk
 [09:49:18]  <daniels> if you mean in the server, TimerSet
 [09:49:25]  <doomster> in a client
 [09:49:38]  <daniels> yeah, just use glib+gtk or qt ...
 [09:49:39]  <doomster> and, call me masochistic, I'm not using any toolkit
 [09:50:28]  <doomster> I want to learn what's going on closer to the X protocol than what toolkits allow
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[10:47:09]  <lolop> Anyone here? I have a multiseat issue..
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[11:18:42]  <stillunknown> Asking to ask is a bad idea.
 [11:37:03]  <jbarnes> dberkholz: so is it working now?
 [11:39:15]  <jbarnes> the links in my entries use &amp but it looks like the title link that planet is pulling doesn't
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[11:52:25]  <jbarnes> dberkholz: ok I changed the urls, hopefully things will work now
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[12:30:57]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: i tried switching back to rss2 as well. aaronp: is the planet working better for you now?
 [12:55:52]  <vignatti> lolop: what issue?
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[13:10:33]  <aaronp> dberkholz: Yeah, akregator is a lot happer about it now.
 [13:11:16]  <aaronp> happier, even.
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[13:35:38]  <lolop> vignatti: I can not seem to tell X which mouse belongs to which screen
 [13:36:45]  <lolop> It is a real crap shoot... every other time the daemon restarts X I get mouse0 on screen1 and mouse1 on screen0
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[13:37:08]  <lolop> vignatti: sometimes I get both pointers on :0 and none on :1
 [13:37:24]  <lolop> and vice versa
 [13:37:32]  <lolop> It is a mess!
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[13:50:04]  <lolop> xorg.conf @ http://pastebin.com/d14a93c3c
 [13:50:14]  <lolop> dont think that is an issue though
 [13:55:45]  <lolop> also sometimes when my second video card comes up... the first one goes blank. I think this particular one might be nvidias domain though
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[15:17:28]  <lolop> Anyone here? I have a multiseat issue.. I can't get the mice to group with a ServerLayout
 [15:17:41]  <lolop> It is a real crap shoot... every other time the daemon restarts X I get mouse0 on screen1 and mouse1 on screen0
 [15:17:52]  <lolop> sometimes I get both pointers on :0 and none on :1
 [15:17:53]  <lolop> <lolop> and vice versa
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[15:31:33]  <vignatti> lolop: what daemon are you talking about?
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[15:32:14]  <vignatti> lolop: you can use evdev driver for pointer devices as well. It's more reliable
 [15:32:15]  <lolop> umm the init script that launches X
 [15:32:25]  <lolop> yeah that didnt help
 [15:32:40]  <lolop> infact if I put driver "foo-bar"
 [15:32:44]  <vignatti^ where's the xorg log?
 [15:32:54]  <lolop> X stats with no problem
 [15:33:03]  <lolop> 1 sec I'll paste
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[15:35:13]  <lolop> http://pastebin.com/m4c305c37
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[15:35:24]  <lolop> thats the end of it
 [15:36:35]  <vignatti^ seems that someone already grabbed your devices
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[15:36:50]  <lolop> yeah
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[15:36:56]  <lolop> that is the problem
 [15:37:05]  <lolop> X :0 grabs mouse1
[15:37:26]  <vignatti^ do `lsof | grep /dev/input/event`
 [15:37:28]  <vignatti> to see it
 [15:38:28]  <lolop> lsof?
 [15:38:30]  <lolop> nogo
 [15:39:08]  <vignatti^ sorry?
 [15:39:24]  <lolop> http://pastebin.com/m562fc5a0
 [15:39:39]  <lolop> ls -l  of /dev/input
 [15:40:24]  <vignatti^ lsof will list who opened a given file
 [15:41:13]  <vignatti> this will help you to identify who grabbed the device's fd so you can kill it
 [15:41:22]  * vignatti -> bbl
 [15:41:39]  <lolop> well ATM the X servers are up and functioning properly
 [15:42:29]  <lolop> I can keep killing X an eventually the mice are attached to the proper X displays
 [15:42:47]  <lolop> I will shut off the X servers and see if I can mix them up again
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[15:44:22]  <daniels> lolop: try Option "NoAutoAddDevices" in the serverflags section
 [15:44:37]  <lolop> All events are owned by root(??)
 [15:44:41]  <lolop> cool
[15:44:43]  <lolop> will do
 [15:46:55]  <lolop> Wow! that seemed to work!
 [15:47:21]  <lolop> 3x's in a row and the mice are correctly associated!
 [15:47:55]  <lolop> THANK  YOU
 [15:49:48]  <lolop> Any idea why /etc/init.d/xdm restart brings up X :0, then X :1 (then X :0 dies), but subsequent restarts (killall X then let the script/daemon bring it back up) works fine?
 [15:52:53]  <lolop> Going eat... thanks daniels and vignatti.... I spent 5 - 15 mins restarting X (with the mice ending up on random displays) every time I rebooted, the issue now seems solved! :)
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[16:01:56]  <daniels> no idea with your xdm issue, but cool
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[16:49:52]  <klebezettel> hello
 [16:49:57]  <klebezettel> hello, I'm searching for a way to "catch" coordinates of mouse clicks...can someone point me to the right lib / header / function?
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[16:55:05]  <_doomster_> klebezettel: xev is a general tool that logs events, you can sure use the source to adapt to your needs. Alternatively, look at xeyes.
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[17:04:12]  <KaneTheWolf> re
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[17:40:15]  <klebezettel> thanks
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[18:42:11]  <klebezettel> so I playes around with xev.c and tried to get a simple program running, unfortunately I get a cast-error: invalid cast from type ?XEvent? to type ?XButtonEvent*?    ...which I can't understand since in xev.c is done the same thing
 [18:42:16]  <klebezettel> http://rafb.net/p/u91fAL70.html
 [18:46:44]  <klebezettel> oh, my mistake...forgot the address operator :x
 [18:50:45]  <klebezettel> hmm, this program makes no sense since there is no focus or something similar in a window (which does not exist)
 [18:54:25]  <klebezettel> is it possible to catch an event like ButtonPress/Release for the whole display/desktop without having a application window for this?
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[19:17:31]  <klebezettel> thanks anyway, good night
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[20:24:16]  <benh> wtf
 [20:24:55]  <benh> /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2: undefined symbol: pixman_format_supported_destination
 [20:25:02]  <benh> go ubuntu LTS :-)
 [20:25:18]  <benh> ah, maybe not their fault...
 [20:26:48]  <benh> not, it wasn't their fault
 [20:27:01]  * benh remove stale libpixman from /usr/local/lib :-)
 [20:30:15]  <keithp^ btw, that's what /usr/local is all about --stale software
 [20:30:57]  <benh^ yeah, pretty much :-)
 [20:31:08]  <benh> it's a pain in the neck to cleanup too, with shit spread all over lib, share, etc..
 [20:31:12]  <benh> oh and bin :-)
 [20:35:48]  <antrik^ you could try using checkinstall...
 [20:35:56]  <antrik> (though it tends to fail with libraries)
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[03:34:03]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:00:57]  <JohnFlux> Morning all
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[06:54:55]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I've got the problem  " Use of uninitialized value in hash element at automake line 1241"    and someone else had this problem before:  http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-July/016970.html  
[06:55:56]  <JohnFlux> he found that upgrading automake from 1.7.3 to 1.9.7   fixed the problem.  you told him that his automake 1.7  was 'spectacularly broken'
 [06:56:05]  <JohnFlux> I've got the same problem though :-)
 [06:56:21]  <JohnFlux> any ideas on what might be broken about my automake 1.7 install?
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[06:57:47]  <daniels> i think the main problems are the 'automake' and '1.7' parts.
 [06:58:47]  <daniels> last time i saw that happening were mismatched libs and scripts, but who knows, really.
 [07:01:49]  <JohnFlux^ :)
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[07:15:07]  <whot> daniels: did you do any work on input dev properties yet?
 [07:17:08]  <daniels^ just one of many things i have not done this month
 [07:17:28]  <whot^ good. I did it today, any special requests?
 [07:17:46]  <whot> so far I basically just copied randr's implementation and did the xlib bindings
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[07:20:16]  <daniels> whot: sounds good to me
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[07:22:36]  <whot> k. need to do the driver hooks too I just realised
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[07:34:23]  <onestone> whot: do you add the input properties to randr or to xinput?
 [07:34:34]  <daniels> to xinput
 [07:35:24]  <onestone> why not generate a generic x properties system, where you would have xserver/input/GPU, output properties?
 [07:38:54]  <onestone> all parts of x could then share the same configuration API
 [07:40:01]  <daniels> er, he copied them from randr's output properties
 [07:40:06]  <daniels> so they do have the same configuration api
 [07:40:18]  <onestone> but in a different lib
 [07:40:19]  <whot^ well, they sort-of do anyway, the only difference is basically whether you specify a device ID or a RR output
 [07:40:29]  <mjg59^ Thank you
 [07:41:17]  <whot> btw, that would mean we can deprecate the ChangeDeviceControl requests
 [07:41:21]  <whot> mjg59: nw
 [07:41:48]  <daniels^ yeah, ioctl ftl
 [07:42:46]  <whot^ huh? what does that have to do with ioctls?
 [07:44:45]  <daniels> the whole ChangeDeviceControl 'let's just put a hugearse arbitrary bytestream through here' thing
 [07:45:38]  <whot^ yeah, but the properties don't really change what the driver does with them.
 [07:45:59]  <whot> oh, how i love function calls with 15 parameters...
 [07:47:18]  <onestone^ daniels: the randr interface will also need to change to support GPU objects in the future. Why not create a generic "X configuration extenstion".
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[07:48:53]  <daniels> whot: yes, but making it less opaque from the dix and spec side of things is rarely an ill-considered move
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[07:49:08]  <whot> daniels: true
 [07:49:32]  <whot> onestone: that's what is happening. the properties are simply atoms + values on the device
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[07:54:32]  <onestone> whot: but you will need another userspace app to configure it. So again one  app more that is only able to control a small part of x. With one generic system you could have one application that is able to save all the properties (Outputs, input, server, keymappings ...) and is able to restore them on login.
 [07:58:09]  <jcristau^ you can write an app to do bothe s
 [07:58:45]  <whot+ well, this app would have to know the settings for each component anyway, and if it does so, it might as well know about the two APIs.
 [07:59:06]  <whot> though I agree that a generic approach may be better long-term, at the moment it's too much code-duplication
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[10:27:04]  <JohnFlux> libXaw  seems to generate shared libraries called    libXaw7.7.0.0   etc
 [10:27:24]  <JohnFlux> does the "JohnFlux is back"  actually get written to the channel btw?
 [10:27:48]  <JohnFlux> anyway, why would it be calling the library   libXaw7.7.0.0  instead of  libXaw7.so.7.0.0
 [10:27:54]  <ajax> not that i'm aware of.
 [10:28:12]  <JohnFlux^ okay good - noone has complained so far, but to me it looks like it does
 [10:28:20]  <ajax> um.  probably libtool getting confused about what the dll suffix is for your platform.
 [10:28:44]  <JohnFlux^ hmm, the strange thing is that it seems to work correctly for all the other libraries
 [10:28:48]  <JohnFlux> in X
 [10:28:51]  <JohnFlux> just not libXaw
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[10:29:17]  <ajax> probably our bug then.
 [10:29:54]  <ajax> we have some grossness in the Xaw build surrounding the conditional build of xaw8
 [10:30:00]  <JohnFlux> fun :-)
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[10:30:34]  <ajax> of course, if you don't need Xaw, you can just not build it...
 [10:30:46]  <JohnFlux^ yeah I don't need it
 [10:31:06]  <JohnFlux> just letting you know incase it's an easy fix or something
 [10:31:18]  <JohnFlux> to fix in cvs I mean
 [10:33:43]  <ajax> i'm sure there's a not-terribly-difficult fix but i'm just as happy leaving it broken.  Xaw's gross anyway.
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[11:26:30]  <mjg59> keithp: On resume, xrandr gives me the wrong backlight value
 [11:26:39]  <mjg59> (At a guess, because the hardware has changed the backlight value underneath it)
 [11:29:18]  <keithp^ a server upgrade fixes that by providing a driver callback to report teh value
 [11:30:56]  <mjg59^ Hurrah
 [11:31:09]  <keithp^ jbarnes is busy at times
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[12:37:51]  <mattst88> dberkholz, glext.h-40.bz2, used by app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.6-r2 in the x11 overlay, is unfetchable
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[13:34:50]  <dberkholz> mattst88: huh. i uploaded it ages ago. maybe it got pulled from mirrors because i took so long to commit the package.
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[14:09:33]  <jak> Is mach64 chiset (old) supported by "ati" driver?
 [14:12:55]  <arekm> no, there is separate mach64 driver now
 [14:13:48]  <jak> I installed mach64, and got fail with "X -configure"..
 [14:14:07]  <jak> I have ati-6.6.3 mach64-6.8.0 and xorg-server-1.3.0
 [14:16:54]  <arekm> I can be very wrong but afaik xserver has list of "default" drivers to try
 [14:18:00]  <ajax> X -configure has a built-in list of driver names.
 [14:18:11]  <ajax> said list predates the mach64 driver splitout.
 [14:23:48]  <arekm> was 1.5 updated for that anyway?
 [14:24:59]  <ajax> no, now that you mention it.
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[15:50:18]  <dvd_fenlon> Hi, I am trying to install xkeyboard-config from git and get the following errors
 [15:50:39]  <dvd_fenlon> ./configure: line 2380: syntax error near unexpected token `0.30'
 [15:50:56]  <dvd_fenlon> ./configure: line 2380: `AC_PROG_INTLTOOL(0.30)'
 [15:51:13]  <Ori_B^ you're missing autoconf and such
 [15:51:22]  <Ori_B> or at least autoconf macros.
 [15:51:29]  <tilman> or intltool
 [15:51:30]  <Ori_B> install intltool
 [15:51:56]  <dvd_fenlon> I've already done export ACLOCAL="aclocal -I /opt/X11-test/share/aclocal"
 [15:52:16]  <dvd_fenlon> and export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/X11-test/lib/pkgconfig
 [15:52:21]  <dvd_fenlon> any ideas ?
 [15:53:08]  <Ori_B> install intltool
 [15:53:29]  <dvd_fenlon> slocate shows /usr/local/share/intltool among others
 [15:53:44]  <tilman> locate intltool.m4
 [15:54:06]  <tilman> and make sure aclocal picks it up
 [15:54:19]  <dvd_fenlon> /usr/local/share/aclocal/intltool.m4
 [15:54:46]  <dvd_fenlon> O.K. extend the aclocal setting ?
 [15:55:32]  <tilman> yes
 [15:55:43]  <dvd_fenlon> thanks.
 [15:55:56]  <tilman> not sure whether xkeyboard-config's autogen.sh honors $ACLOCAL though, or whether aclocal itself does
 [16:01:20]  <ajax> the latter.
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[16:17:42]  <dvd_fenlon> Its configured now. I just needed to change aclocal  to point to /usr/local/share/aclocal and run autoreconf
 [16:17:57]  <dvd_fenlon> thanks again
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[18:41:26]  <tormod> hi, after sascha's AllowEmptyInput change, the server ignores my kbd and mouse unless I use the AEI option
 [18:43:32]  <tormod> tried both without xorg.conf and with one that has a keyboard and mouse section
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[19:00:14]  <tjaalton> the tinderbox doesn't have video-cyrix listed. Is that intended?
 [19:00:22]  <tjaalton> (because it fails to build against 1.5)
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[19:01:49]  <tjaalton> or is it one of the deprecated drivers?
 [19:07:44]  <tjaalton> seems to be the case..
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[19:22:08]  <alanc> isn't video-geode replacing -cyrix?
 [19:22:15]  <tjaalton> yes..
 [19:22:21]  <tjaalton> found out about it
 [19:22:24]  <CosmicPenguin> not very soon
 [19:22:32]  <tjaalton> well, cyrix is gone anyway
 [19:22:36]  <tjaalton> since it doesn't build
 [19:23:02]  <tjaalton> and doesn't look like anyone will care :)
 [19:24:50]  <tjaalton> looks like imstt is just as dead
 [19:31:16]  <tjaalton> hum, no new release of tga
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[19:35:59]  <leio_Ist> was there a -vesa release that builds against 1.5?
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[19:46:03]  <alanc> leio_Ist: ajax released a -vesa 2.0 release last week
 [19:46:23]  <leio_Ist> ah, must've missed that, thanks :)
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[20:34:33]  <whot> sweet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8bXfJhmOVg. input redirection in mpx
 [20:35:18]  <dberkholz> leio_Ist: it's in the tree, foo'
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[20:47:53]  <benjsc> whot: that rocks! looks like a compiz mod
 [20:49:01]  <cjb> what's freewins?
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[20:49:55]  <cjb> ah.  compiz plugin for free rotation.
 [20:53:30]  <whot> benjsc: I think the redirection patches are for the server, but I'm not sure
 [20:54:07]  <airlied> someone should totally write that stuff correctly, or port davidr stuff..
 [20:55:19]  <whot^ and we have a volunteer!
 [20:55:30]  <whot> just tell me when you're done with it and I'll test it
 [20:56:04]  <airlied^ I'll get one of minions to do it next week :)
 [20:56:31]  <whot^ d'oh
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[23:46:07]  <dberkholz> could someone push out an xman release?
 [23:46:16]  <dberkholz> it's got a patch for bzip2'd manpages
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[03:22:29]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:38:41]  <benh> airlied: ping
 [03:38:56]  <benh> to dump the r5xx regs, I should use avivotool from the avivo driver source or whatever is in radeontool in your home dir ?
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[03:39:05]  <benh> airlied: or something else ? :-)
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[03:58:35]  <airlied> benh: avivotool from my ~radeontool/.
 [03:58:37]  <airlied> the master branch
 [03:59:55]  <airlied> I merged it into master recently..
 [03:59:57]  <benh> yup
 [04:00:01]  <benh> found it
 [04:00:09]  <benh> airlied: so I see some differences before/after X
 [04:00:16]  <benh> I "fix them up" manually with avivotool
 [04:00:21]  <benh> but that still doesn't give my display back
 [04:00:34]  <benh> tho I did get the monitor to see a sync at least :-)
 [04:01:00]  <benh> interestingly enough, looks like the VBE code and the driver/ATOM choose to use a different DAC
 [04:01:05]  <benh> for that same display, or something like that
 [04:01:18]  <benh> I'm now adding regs from the m56 doc, see if it makes a difference
 [04:01:30]  <benh> if not, I'll start dumping entire address ranges :-)
 [04:03:14]  <benh> also using the trace of all regs touched by ATOM helps
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[04:13:59]  <benh> airlied: any idea what reg at 0x8 is ?
 [04:14:08]  <airlied^ its an indirect to mmio I think
 [04:14:11]  <benh> 8/c
 [04:14:14]  <benh> indirect something
 [04:14:16]  <benh> MMIO or PLL ?
 [04:15:02]  <benh> hrm... PLL is e008/e00c
 [04:15:04]  <airlied> actually its PLL indirect
 [04:15:22]  <airlied> pll is 0x8/0xc
 [04:15:30]  <benh> looks like pll
 [04:15:31]  <benh> 2e is a pll reg
 [04:15:39]  <benh> but the doco says pll is e008/e00c
 [04:16:09]  <benh> argh
 [04:16:18]  <benh> ok, so ATOM goes whack some PLL regs that aren't in the doc
 [04:16:22]  <benh> as part of setting up the CRTCs
 [04:16:26]  <benh> I wonder if that's my problem
 [04:16:40]  <benh> it doesn't happen to have some "read mode" calls ?
 [04:16:47]  <airlied^ most of the plls have moved on r500 though.
 [04:16:47]  <benh> to save/restore on console switch ? :P-)
 [04:16:55]  <benh> I'm looking at m56 doco
 [04:17:02]  <benh> ATOM goes to 2e but that's not in there
 [04:17:12]  <airlied> pll 2e?
 [04:17:19]  <benh> yup
 [04:17:30]  <airlied> its got revision id in it.
 [04:17:34]  <airlied> its read/only
 [04:17:41]  <benh> aha
 [04:17:42]  <benh> right
 [04:17:44]  <benh> it's reading from it
 [04:17:45]  <benh> not writing
 [04:17:47]  <benh> my bad
 [04:18:32]  <benh> ppll is still chosen from 8 ?
 [04:18:45]  <airlied> nope..
[04:18:51]  <airlied> they are all in normal memory now
 [04:19:11]  <airlied> up around 0x400
 [04:19:27]  <benh> ok
 [04:19:30]  <benh> so the monitor is happy with the sync
 [04:19:34]  <benh> but the screen is black
 [04:19:49]  <benh> the monitor says the sync is 1280x1024/56Hhz which I think is correct
 [04:20:03]  <airlied^ is the fbcon alive and pointing at the write address?
 [04:20:04]  <benh> I toyed with blank cntl etc... but that's not it
 [04:20:13]  <benh> maybe the write address changed ?
 [04:20:13]  <airlied> right address even
 [04:20:15]  <benh> it's offb
 [04:20:22]  <benh> it points to whatever the BIOS did
 [04:20:27]  <benh> SLOF does some VBE call to setup a linear mode
 [04:20:31]  <benh> 8 bpp
 [04:21:08]  <benh> where is the disp base address defined on those things ?
 [04:21:39]  <airlied> 0x6110 or so
 [04:22:07]  <benh> yeah
 [04:22:08]  <benh> I see it
 [04:22:52]  <benh> none of that changed
 [04:23:53]  <benh> I'm tempted to dump the whole 0x6000..0x6800 range
 [04:23:56]  <benh> and compare that
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[04:25:39]  <benh> oh
 [04:25:42]  <benh> there's already a regs all
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[04:53:35]  <benh> glisse / airlied: regs at 0x1xxx and 0x4xxx are irrelevant to the display right ? (ie, drawing engine regs ?)
 [04:53:48]  <airlied^ yup.
 [04:53:51]  <benh> hrm
 [04:53:54]  <benh> I can't get it back...
 [04:53:59]  <benh> got the mode right, etc...
 [04:54:02]  <airlied> display is up to 0x1000 and post 0x6000
 [04:54:03]  <benh> but I get black
 [04:54:06]  <benh> yeah
 [04:54:11]  <benh> oh well, I'll dig more later
 [04:54:16]  <benh> I'll do some more automated bits
 [04:54:19]  <airlied> so try mmaping /dev/fb
 [04:54:22]  <airlied> and writing crap :)
 [04:54:36]  <benh> there should be a login prompt on it :-)
 [04:54:38]  <benh> anyway, have to go
 [04:54:38]  <benh> bbl
 [04:54:54]  <benh> you are welcome to dig too :-)
 [04:55:00]  <benh> bbl
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[08:23:49]  <b0le> whot: airlied: The IR/MPX video you were talking about before was just david_r's patches (and using XCompositeSetTriangularCoordinateMesh in the compiz plugin)
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[08:26:54]  <b0le> airlied: also, what would need to be changed to rewrite it correctly? Would putting the transformation in FixupEventFrom window instead of WriteEventsToClient be more correct? (and then also the little things, like ignoring the original input rectangle if a mesh is specified)
 [08:29:37]  <benjsc_> Anyone able to chat to keithp? He's got domain issues atm that are affecting fd.o and keithp.com
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[09:07:05]  <b0le> airlied: also, what do you mean by port david_r's stuff? Just make the patches work with master? (if so, I've already done that)
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[10:50:54]  <MrCooper> ajax: actually, I think swapped dispatch should be a code generation exercise (think XCB :)
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[10:55:32]  <ajax> i think both sides of dispatch should be a codegen exercise
 [10:55:49]  <ajax> but despite my trolling about it for the last however long, no one's taken the bait yet
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[11:37:57]  <mjg59> jbarnes: Sigh 855 brokenness
 [11:38:11]  <jbarnes^ what's up?
 [11:39:58]  <mjg59^ Backlight on resume
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[11:43:36]  <jbarnes> backlight = <3
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[11:45:07]  <mjg59> Would be nice if it worked in .26
 [11:45:13]  * mjg59 heads out for food
 [11:49:06]  <Lrrr> xcb.freedesktop.org is quite broken
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[13:13:10]  <owen> can someone remind me of who was working with benh on the BE r500 stuff?
 [13:15:48]  <agd5f^ I's been pushed to radeon git
 [13:15:55]  <agd5f> *It's
 [13:15:58]  <owen^ it has... ok
 [13:16:31]  <owen> i have his hacks, that aren't happy
 [13:16:35]  <owen> i'll try git quick
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[13:22:18]  <owen> agd5f: xf86-video-ati right?
 [13:22:25]  <agd5f^ yes
 [13:22:45]  <owen> ok, cool, didnt see anything in the summary that was related
 [13:22:57]  <agd5f^ atombios: add support for other endians.
 [13:23:24]  * owen blind :)
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[14:05:09]  <CosmicPenguin> ugh /me finds badness in acpid
 [14:20:46]  <jg^ like the sleep(1) I found in it once ;-)?
 [14:21:17]  <CosmicPenguin> This one is fun too
 [14:21:43]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm testing suspend/resume - we leave the system in a awake 30 seconds / sleep 30 seconds cycle for three days
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[14:22:18]  <CosmicPenguin> when we VT switch into X, we open a connection to the acpid socket, and when we vt switch out to suspend, we close the file descriptor
 [14:22:33]  <CosmicPenguin> only, acpid doesn't look for the file descriptor close unless it gets an event
 [14:22:43]  <CosmicPenguin> so it quietly sits out there accumulating many fds, most of them defunct
 [14:22:50]  <jg> ugh....
 [14:23:02]  <CosmicPenguin> since there are no events to be had on a rack in a server room - nobody is pressing any buttons
 [14:23:23]  <jg> of course, we shouldn't actually need to vt switch to suspend, but that is a different discussion....
 [14:23:37]  <CosmicPenguin> And when it gets to the end and there are too many files open, it spams its log
 [14:23:43]  <CosmicPenguin> filled up the hard drives
 [14:23:48]  <jg> heh.
 [14:23:53]  <jg> serves them right....
 [14:24:06]  <CosmicPenguin> +1 on the VT switch thing
 [14:24:14]  <CosmicPenguin> if only we could be more like OLPC - those handsome devils
 [14:24:20]  <jg> heh.
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[14:24:56]  <jg> getting mode switching in the driver (not to mention being able to rely on *having* a driver, will help loads.
 [14:29:24]  <jg> ah, nothing like perusing antique X sources....
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[14:55:57]  <jg> ping keithp
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[16:48:44]  <airlied> owen: I pushed in cleaned up benh's changes.. but haven't really had a chance to test them yet.
 [16:48:53]  <airlied> need to hook up video cable to g5..
 [16:49:22]  <owen^ today's git works :)
 [16:49:36]  <airlied^ oh good.. I didn't mess up his patches then :)
 [16:49:45]  <airlied> I think vt switch is the only bug left..
 [16:49:48]  <owen> now i just need to source a couple hundred cards now
 [16:49:50]  <airlied> he couldn't get offb to come back..
 [16:49:54]  <owen^ i noticed :)
 [16:50:08]  <airlied> I can't test that here.. as my G5 won't post that card..
 [16:50:17]  <airlied> so hopefully I can help benh track it down.
 [16:50:46]  <owen> hmmmm
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[17:11:53]  <sxpert> any chance them people ever see the light ? http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9120pluslpx1/specs/
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[17:14:41]  <airlied> benh: hey.. btw I can't test offb, as offb won't attach to the x86 ATI card on my G5 :)
 [17:14:57]  <benh^ hrm... true
 [17:15:06]  <airlied^ I've pushed your patches into master.. owen said they seem to work.
 [17:15:18]  <benh> ok
 [17:15:22]  <airlied> I removed the debugging for now.
 [17:15:29]  <airlied> but I mgiht clean that side up a bit..
 [17:15:37]  <airlied> and push it later.. will to AMD..
 [17:15:46]  <benh> I'll continue trying to find out about restoring offb then
 [17:15:57]  <benh> another option would be to add some ioctl's to offb
 [17:16:04]  <benh> have radeon "detect" it's it
 [17:16:14]  <benh> and rather than restore things, just leave some valid mode on and "inform" offb about it :-)
 [17:16:17]  <airlied> its probably something stupid radeon does on vt switch..
 [17:16:23]  <benh> yeah well
 [17:16:31]  <benh> I already found out a bunch of stuff that aren't properly restored
 [17:16:46]  <benh> by manually restoring a whole bunch of stuff, I seem to get the output enabled and the right timings
 [17:16:54]  <benh> but the display is still dark, must be missing someting
 [17:17:13]  <airlied> does all all dump have many diffs?
 [17:17:28]  <airlied> hope its not some ordering thing.. but the new radeons are much better in that respect.
 [17:17:36]  <airlied> also maybe some lock on some regs.
 [17:17:53]  <airlied> but nothing rings a bell except the cursor.
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[17:23:48]  <benh> airlied: mostly diffs in the 0x1xxx range (accel stuff)
 [17:23:55]  <benh> a pair of CRTC regs
 [17:24:02]  <benh> and a few DAC stuff
 [17:24:22]  <benh> tough I 'fixed" the timing completely with a <0x1000 reg, I suspect by whacking a VGA pre-set timing or such
 [17:24:29]  <benh> I'll have to look more closely
 [17:24:57]  <benh> cursor has differences (ie. it's disabled on offb)
 [17:25:05]  <benh> but I think I whacked those too without effect
 [17:25:16]  <benh> I'll diff more things, could be something in the MC or PLL regs that aren't dumped
 [17:25:30]  <benh> there's also differences in the 0x65xx area which isn't in the doco
 [17:25:36]  <benh> not sure what those are
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[17:36:15]  <airlied> benh: < 0x1000 is a pll..
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[17:36:51]  <benh> airlied: ok
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[17:37:09]  <airlied> well 0x3xx-0x5xx range is at least.
 [17:37:15]  <benh^ do we know if the BIOS init does the same thing as the ATOM ASIC_INIT ?
 [17:37:21]  <benh> ok
 [17:37:23]  <airlied^ for the wierdass undoc ones let me know..
 [17:37:28]  <airlied> it should call the same path.
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[17:37:36]  <airlied> the mode set maybe not.
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[17:37:45]  <benh> airlied: ok so it wouldn't be something like the MC setting the vram elsewhere
 [17:37:47]  <airlied> the bios init asic and set mode paths would be different.
 [17:37:52]  <benh> yup
 [17:37:54]  <airlied^ could be.. :)
 [17:38:04]  <benh> I'll dump more regs :-)
 [17:38:14]  <airlied> but HDP stuff should change then
 [17:44:51]  <benh> we'll see
 [17:45:02]  <benh> I haven't yet scrubbed my traces of ATOM
 [17:45:07]  <benh> see every register it touches :-)
 [17:45:15]  <benh> in fact, I want to try not calling ASIC_INIT
 [17:45:22]  <benh> since the card is theorically already inited
 [17:45:58]  <benh> (tho we may not get some tables right as they haven't been "patched" by ASIC_INIT, ie, we don't get the RAM image of the BIOS, but I may be able to fix that with the SLOF guys, get it from the device-tree and whack it in sysfs "rom" file or such)
 [17:46:22]  <benh> that will limit the amount of registers touched and make it easier to spot what's up
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[17:47:44]  <agd5f> benh: the x86 part of the bios calls atom functions as well
 [17:47:56]  <agd5f> so it's unified, driver and bios
 [17:48:37]  <benh^ ok
 [17:48:44]  <benh> ATOM has no "read current mode" function tho ?
 [17:48:49]  <benh> that we could use to save/restore VT
 [17:49:16]  <agd5f^ nope.  however there is a set_vga function to "restore" a text console
 [17:49:16]  <benh> I wonder if I should just "guess" the current mode reading a few things and then make ATOM restore it on VT switch
 [17:49:29]  <benh> except we don't want to restore a text console
 [17:49:31]  <benh> it's offb
 [17:49:34]  <agd5f> right
 [17:49:41]  <benh> it's a linear gfx mode that was set by SLOF using VBE calls
 [17:49:58]  <benh> do we call "set_vga" currently ?
 [17:50:04]  <agd5f^ no
 [17:50:08]  <benh> k
 [17:50:28]  <agd5f^ vbe calls should set some of the bios scratch regs
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[17:51:48]  <agd5f> benh: so you can reference those for some things
 [17:53:49]  <benh^ do you have some infos ?
 [17:53:54]  <benh> about these ?
 [17:54:11]  <benh> unfortunately, the BIOS image in memory is lost, so only stuff in scratch regs is still around
 [17:54:30]  <benh> if the scratch regs contain the VESA mode that was set, that would be cool
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[17:57:27]  <agd5f> benh: most of the bits are defined in atombios.h
 [17:57:41]  <benh> ok
 [17:57:51]  <benh> I'll have a look later
 [17:57:54]  <benh> thx
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[19:35:40]  <ds> why would a recent jhbuild of xorg cause complaints about drivers having a newer ABI version than the server?
 [19:37:53]  <airlied^ drivers getting built against wrong server headers
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[20:05:39]  <night> hello all, i cant seem to get xorg to detedct my monitor, when i run  sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
 [20:05:39]  <night> its just all about my keyboard, nothing about my monitor,
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[20:07:03]  <night> hello all, i cant seem to get xorg to detedct my monitor, when i run  sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
 [20:07:03]  <night> its just all about my keyboard, nothing about my monitor,
 [20:07:36]  <glisse> agd5f, airlied: btw a pattern in rbbm_status is that bit 13 & 14 are set then shortly after 14 & 15
 [20:08:03]  <glisse> it seems that when the engine start using the retry buffer
 [20:08:10]  <glisse> things gonna end up badly
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[20:10:39]  <airlied> have we identified what the retry buffer actually is
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[20:12:17]  <glisse> my guess is that this is one of the things that handle failure on write transaction somewhere in the chip
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[20:16:44]  <glisse> even more interesting is that in few first instante the vap is busy then the vap goes idle than busy again and stay busy
 [20:18:39]  <glisse> okay so here is the theory
 [20:18:59]  <glisse> the engine is drawing somethings big and it takes times
 [20:19:32]  <glisse> somehow one of the command in the fifo fail and it goes to the retry buffer
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[20:19:47]  <glisse> processing of current rendering end
 [20:19:52]  <glisse> but the retry buffer is activ
 [20:20:16]  <glisse> then the vap start what was next but as soon as it try to start fetching vertex
 [20:20:39]  <glisse> the retry buffer stop him from doing so
 [20:20:45]  <glisse> and we end up locked
 [20:21:07]  <airlied> so what fails in the fifo.. something timesout?
 [20:22:03]  <glisse> lockup log supporting this http://www.pastebin.ca/1066067
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[20:22:11]  <glisse> last line is repeated infinite time
 [20:22:26]  <glisse> first reg is rbbm_Status second one is vap_cntl_status
 [20:23:18]  <glisse> i think that the a write to wait_until register fail in the fifo due to the isync setup
 [20:24:05]  <airlied^ where do we use the FIFO when DRI is running btw?
 [20:24:10]  <airlied> updating ring regs?
 [20:24:24]  <glisse> everythings goes through the fifo
 [20:24:32]  <glisse> cp parse reg and write to fifo
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[20:24:56]  <glisse> fifo is like the only entry point to the actual register place
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[20:25:07]  <glisse> except for unpipelined register
 [20:25:09]  <airlied> I thought we used the ring..
 [20:25:19]  <airlied> ah all mmio regs go via fifo..
 [20:25:38]  <glisse> yup and even cp parse ring but things go through this fifo
 [20:25:56]  <whot_> b0le: did you do anything to compiz to make it work with two mice? or was that just in that one app?
 [20:26:01]  <airlied> oh I forgot the CP was this side of the FIFO.
 [20:26:38]  <glisse> fifo is the man you have to speak to to get access :)
 [20:26:52]  <glisse> and i think retry buffer is their when fifo fails to do somethings
 [20:28:16]  <glisse> doesn't seems to be the isync delaying wait
 [20:28:20]  <glisse> wait_until
 [20:29:04]  <glisse> i will dump the fifo
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[20:43:22]  <glisse> agd5f, airlied: http://pastebin.com/m619ee46b cmdfifo dump on lockup with the retry failing
 [20:44:18]  * airlied fails to parse fifo speak :)
 [20:44:44]  <glisse> me too i don't know how to interpret it
 [20:44:53]  <glisse> i don't see packet
 [20:45:16]  <airlied> register-datum pairs.
 [20:45:53]  <airlied> according to old r200 docs
 [20:47:09]  <glisse^ does doc says anythings about  how to read cmdfifo data
 [20:47:26]  <glisse> like reading two times in a raw the cmdfifo data register
 [20:47:32]  <glisse> first time to get reg
 [20:47:34]  <airlied> nope :)
 [20:47:39]  <glisse> second to get datum
 [20:49:18]  <airlied> are you reading 0xe70 + 0xe74 at the moment?
 [20:49:43]  <glisse> i am writing to 0xe70
 [20:49:48]  <glisse> and reading 0xe74
 [20:49:56]  <airlied> yup..
[20:50:10]  <airlied> sounds correct.. nothing much in the docs.. it might be an agd5f one :)
 [20:50:20]  <glisse> yup
 [20:50:25]  <airlied> I suppose you could write a register and dump it
[20:50:28]  <airlied> and see if you can work it out
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[20:51:10]  <glisse> anyway i go to sleep hopping that agd5f tell us what it's while i am peacfully sleeping :)
 [20:51:13]  <glisse> bbl
 [20:52:19]  <airlied> hmm it looks to be different on r200.
 [20:52:26]  <airlied> there is a datal/h register
 [20:52:44]  <airlied> the high one disappears on r300
 [20:54:23]  <cjb> hm.  I built jhbuild X, set Xorg suid root, and when I run startx inside the jhbuild shell all my clients fail to connect with "no protocol specified".
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[20:58:08]  <cjb> The wiki helped.  Need to startx -- /path/to/new/Xorg.
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[21:15:07]  <cjb> hm.  using mpx, xinput list --short only shows one mouse/keyboard when two are plugged in.
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[21:29:09]  <whot> cjb: using evdev or the mouse driver?
 [21:29:19]  <whot> what does the log say?
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[21:33:44]  <cjb> whot: http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/mpx.Xorg.0.log
 [21:34:14]  <cjb> I have a USB keyboard, USB mouse, and single-device USB keyboard and mouse plugged in
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[21:35:08]  <cjb> (do I need to specify new input devices in xorg.conf?)
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[21:36:00]  <whot> cjb: looks like hal isn't set up properly
 [21:36:24]  <whot> so it only takes the devices from the conf
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[21:39:02]  <cjb> huh.  ok.  perhaps an artifact of being in jhbuild.
 [21:39:41]  <cjb> "lshal" from inside the X session works fine.
 [21:40:55]  <whot^ yeah, I meant that hal doesn't add the x11_ options, most likely due to a missing x11-input.fdi file
 [21:41:21]  <whot> just copy xserver/config/x11-input.fdi into /etc/hal/fdi/policy/
 [21:41:43]  <cjb> ah.  my HAL was started outside my jhbuild, it doesn't have that file.  ok!
 [21:42:37]  <whot^ make install doesn't install it, it's up to the distributor
 [21:42:45]  <cjb> yay, fixed.
 [21:43:03]  <cjb> sure, of course; make install in jhbuild didn't run as root anyway.
 [21:43:12]  <cjb> is there a recommended wm for mpx?
 [21:43:58]  <whot^ not yet. I have a mpx-aware version of compiz, but I'm waiting for my old bosses to give me the ok for publishing it
 [21:44:12]  <cjb> neat.
 [21:44:20]  <whot^ unfortunately it seems low on their priority
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[21:54:14]  <aaronp> ajax: What would you say to using this new multiple driver autoconfig stuff to try "nvidia" and then "nv"?  The assumption being that if somebody installs the nvidia driver, he probably wants to use it too.
 [21:54:45]  <gravity^ Did someone push code to do that finally?
 [21:54:57]  <aaronp> No, but I'm thinking of doing it.
 [21:55:03]  <gravity> Rock
 [21:55:08]  <aaronp> I need to make sure the server can fall back correctly, first.
 [21:55:22]  <aaronp> Also, I need to make the ABI check in the nvidia driver fail earlier.
 [21:55:22]  <gravity> I have some code to do it, but it's not really ready yet
 [21:56:02]  <gravity> Does it use pci id's to manage which drivers to load?
 [21:57:02]  <gravity> "it" being the server, not the nvidia driver
 [21:57:34]  <aaronp> Yeah.  Hold please while I find the cgit URL...
 [21:57:57]  <aaronp> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=5e847c1d4fc30a0d263a861a76982660f11998cd
 [22:01:03]  <gravity^ Much better than what's currently there, although I think the driver should probably have some say in what it supports
 [22:01:40]  <gravity> But I'd like to see this or something like it go in. It's what I was pushing for for a while
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[22:18:11]  <aaronp> gravity: The driver does have a pci_id_match structure in it that it feeds to xf86AddDriver, so that would work too.
 [22:34:47]  <gravity^ I'm pretty sure that's what my code was using, although I like your approach of having the server just hardcode a decision in case of a conflict
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[22:55:08]  <whot> cjb: ping
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[23:11:00]  <cjb> whot: pong
 [23:11:50]  <whot^ git://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/compiz.git
 [23:11:57]  <whot> just got the ok
 [23:14:19]  <cjb> oh!  how cool.
 [23:14:27]  <cjb> does it need patched gtk, too?
 [23:15:23]  <whot^ nope. a patched mesa is nice to reduce cursor artefacts, but other than that nothing
 [23:16:29]  <benjsc+ long time no chat .. just building a permanent fbsd tinderbox - vmware machine so shouldn't vanish like the last one :(
 [23:16:49]  <cjb> whot: super.
 [23:16:56]  <cjb> benjsc: oh, cool.
 [23:17:23]  <benjsc^ If I can find some spare ip addresses might try a netbsd / openbsd one as well
 [23:18:06]  <whot^ I can see you're overloaded with work :)
 [23:18:48]  <benjsc^ just doing docs .. procrastinating ..
 [23:19:04]  <whot^ hehe. lunch tomorrow?
 [23:19:13]  <benjsc> yeah, sure
 [23:19:34]  <whot^ greasy thai food or burger & beer?
 [23:19:47]  <benjsc> hmm beer
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----- [2008-07-09] -----
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[03:34:38]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:58:40]  <CE> Hi
 [03:58:52]  <CE> does somebody know how far EXA does accalerate lines?
 [03:59:20]  <CE> I see a lot of time spent inside of fbPolySegment32, but can't find the implementation to see how it works
 [04:06:20]  <CE> ah, I seeing exaFinishAccess I guess it writes directly to framebuffer but doin the line in software, right?
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[04:27:38]  <MrCooper> CE: yeah, it only accelerates some cases using rectangles
 [04:29:57]  <CE> thanks
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[04:30:11]  <CE> may I ask another thing?
 [04:31:17]  <CE> My idea is to draw with XDrawLine to an 8-bit pixmaps, and use that one as mask
 [04:32:04]  <CE> ah .. maybe found an answer
 [04:36:27]  <CE> I'll better go to #xorg ^^
 [04:36:29]  <CE> thanks
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[06:34:46]  <mjg59> jbarnes: On the broken i855, PP_STATUS claims that the panel is off
 [06:35:09]  <mjg59> Are you sure there isn't some further constraint on 855 before writing PP_CONTROL back?
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[07:30:55]  <b0le> whot: that was just my test mpx app, I had no changes to compiz (only modified freewins plugin to use the XCompositeSetTriCoordMesh function provided by davidr's IR patches)
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[09:00:54]  <anderco> In the KeySyms map stored in each keyboard device (pDev->key->curKeySyms.map), the first line refers to what keycode, 0 or minKeyCode?
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[09:14:37]  <whot> anderco: minKeyCode IIRC
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[09:15:41]  <anderco> whot: so, I believe there is a wrong test in GetKeyboardValuatorEvents
 [09:16:05]  <anderco> if you run X withoun Xkb, sym will have the wrong value
 [09:16:30]  <anderco> this causes the key 'm' to be not generate all the proper events
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[09:28:12]  <whot> anderco: good point.
 [09:29:06]  <whot> so, does it work if you replace it with map[(key_code - pDev->key->curKeySyms.minKeyCode) ...
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[09:29:57]  <anderco> whot: it works
 [09:33:07]  <whot> can you mail me a git patch, I'll push it
 [09:35:54]  <anderco^ ok, should I send patches for both 1.5 and master?
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[09:37:12]  <whot> yes please
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[09:47:32]  <krh> whot: you rock!
 [09:48:33]  <whot^ I do? thx
 [09:48:54]  <johnflux+ what about me?
 [09:48:56]  * johnflux cries
 [09:49:17]  <krh> whot: mpx compiz ftw :)
 [09:51:03]  <whot^ yeah, it's pretty cool. I just hope somebody picks it up and finishes it
 [09:53:19]  <krh^ if we had input redirection, you could spin the cube with one hand and wobble windows around with the other
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[09:53:22]  <b0le> krh: regarding IR, do you know why the root coordinates are transformed also?
 [09:53:46]  <krh^ hm, no
 [09:53:52]  <whot^ actually, you can do that now, it's just that the coordinates are a bit screwed. still makes for a cool demo though.
 [09:54:16]  <whot> and sometimes I think half the compiz plugins are more for demo than anything else anyway
 [09:54:22]  <krh> hehe
 [09:54:49]  <Dr_Jakob> whot: true, I only use one or two
 [09:55:23]  <krh> johnflux: you rock too
 [09:55:53]  * Dr_Jakob feels left out now
 [09:56:04]  <krh> haha
 [09:56:29]  <Dr_Jakob> I hope you brought enough to give to everyone.
 [09:56:48]  <krh^ sure, everybody rocks :)
 [09:56:50]  <whot> keithp: ping
 [09:57:57]  <whot> randr properties have an immutable state, but it seems to only stop deletion and configuration of the property, not actually changing it. Is this intended?
 [09:58:26]  <maniac103> krh: do you have heard anything from David lately?
 [09:58:38]  <krh^ nope, not sure what he's up to
 [09:59:35]  <maniac103^ jpr (who as I understand is still his boss ;-) ) told me he's working on another project, but I'm not sure if that explains no response to private mails over a few months
 [10:01:10]  <krh^ yeah, I wouldn't be surprised
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[11:39:03]  <dr-xorg> flow23er
 [11:39:43]  <ajax> that's not a very good password
 [11:40:00]  <dr-xorg> oh my ...
 [11:40:08]  <dr-xorg> but you may be right there ....
 [11:41:05]  * dr-xorg hates dysfunctional screensavers ...
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[12:10:39]  <erikg> i'm trying to use the xtest extension to issue fake mouse button presses to evoke scrolling behavior.  i've verified that the code i'm using to issue the fake presses works by encapsulating it in a script and executing it from the command line.  but when i attempt to execute the code from the window manager process, it has no effect--- no button events are received by the clients (but the return values from the functions are all the same).
 [12:10:55]  <erikg> (executing the code on the command line in an xterm)
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[12:20:19]  <erikg> i'd be happy to hear any advice...
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[12:57:44]  <glisse> agd5f, airlied: for the record to dump fifo: write(0xe70,index|0x100) reg=(read(0xe74)-1)>>2; write(0xe70,index); value=read(0xe74)
 [12:59:52]  <agd5f^ cool
 [12:59:54]  <nha> fifo = the thing buffering what the CP reads before it gets passed onto the actual pipe?
 [13:00:20]  <agd5f^ it's the buffer infront of the regsiter backbone
 [13:00:23]  <glisse+ nop after the cp
 [13:00:39]  <agd5f> both CP and direct MMIO feed it
 [13:00:45]  <glisse> this is the last place where cmd end up from my understanding
 [13:00:59]  <nha> agd5f: cool. that could be useful in debugging lockups, couldn't it?
 [13:01:06]  <nha> some of them at least
 [13:01:10]  <agd5f^ yeah
 [13:07:31]  <glisse> so in my lockup test case
 [13:07:41]  <glisse> it seems lockup happen after scissor change
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[13:07:49]  <glisse> just while drawing index buffer
 [13:09:08]  <glisse> in fact this is suspicious as index are set before vap_vf_cntl
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[13:13:18]  <glisse> agd5f: the packet3 draw_indx should set vap_vf_cntl before writing index right ?
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[13:19:50]  <glisse> agd5f: could the cp do interleaving ?
 [13:20:06]  <glisse> the cmdfifo look bogus
 [13:20:22]  <glisse> and i am willing to accept that the card lockup in front of this :)
 [13:20:23]  <onestone> whot: ping
 [13:24:05]  <glisse> for anyone wanting to take a look at fifo at when it lockups http://pastebin.com/m204fcb8b
 [13:24:50]  <glisse> what is suspicious is the write to 0x2084 which should immediatly followed by index ie write to 0x2040
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[13:31:37]  <agd5f> glisse: yeah, draw_index_2 doesn't set it however
 [13:31:40]  <glisse> i am wondering if it's due to the ring/ib1/ib2 order
 [13:31:58]  <glisse> agd5f: r5xx doc say draw_index_2 set it i think
 [13:32:38]  <glisse> yup r5xx doc says so
 [13:33:44]  <glisse> agd5f: my theory (i am doing a theory by day because this is good for health ;))
 [13:34:37]  <glisse> is that cp decode packet3 write vap_vf_cntl and before starting fetching from ib2 it parse few more cmd from ring
 [13:34:51]  <glisse> which doesn't make sense
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[13:35:07]  <agd5f> glisse: nevermind I was thinking of VAp_VTX_FMT
 [13:35:32]  <glisse^ strange that you confuse register they have very very different name ;)
 [13:36:52]  <glisse> the fact that scissor are udpated btw 0x2084 and index writting is very disturbing
 [13:37:36]  <glisse> what might especialy hurt is the waituntil before the indices are written
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[13:42:17]  <glisse> without the wait until hard lockup
 [13:42:24]  <agd5f^ are teh wait_untils somethign the driver inserted or something the CP is doing?
 [13:42:35]  <glisse> driver insert it
 [13:42:48]  <glisse> well drm insert it
 [13:42:53]  <glisse> at least mine drm does
 [13:42:58]  <agd5f> ok
 [13:43:10]  <glisse> i have a very different drm
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[13:44:26]  <ssieb2> I have an X hang bug.  would it be better to ask for debugging help here or in #xorg ?
 [13:44:41]  <glisse^ radeon ?
 [13:50:53]  <ssieb2> yes
 [13:52:06]  <ssieb2> glisse: it's the open-source ati driver, which I assume maps to radeon
 [13:52:58]  <ssieb2> you can see my initial comments in #xorg
 [13:53:03]  <glisse^ well then disable dri
 [13:53:38]  <glisse> only short term solution i can think of, i guess you got some 3d stuff running like compiz
 [13:53:43]  <ssieb2> no 3d
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[13:55:00]  <glisse> ssieb2: even not a 3d screensaver ?
 [13:55:09]  <glisse> if you don't use 3d
 [13:55:25]  <glisse> disabling dri won't hurt your usage and will likely solve this lockup
 [13:55:46]  <ssieb2> but wouldn't you rather get it fixed? :-)
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[13:56:45]  <glisse> ssieb2: lockup are things we have for years
 [13:56:50]  <glisse> it's not easy to fix
 [13:56:51]  <ssieb2> I have the debugger open right now for X and the kernel.  and it's completely reproducable
 [13:56:53]  <glisse> it needs time
 [13:57:07]  <glisse> ssieb2: if it lockup i guess you got unresponsive system
 [13:57:17]  <glisse> or at least x goes 100%cpu
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[13:57:38]  <ssieb2> yes, X takes 100% CPU, but I still have full remote access to the system
 [13:57:40]  <glisse> lockup need kernel debugging
 [13:58:05]  <ssieb2> and X stops using CPU when the debugger stops it
 [13:58:14]  <ssieb2> I have the kernel debugger open as well
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[13:58:31]  <glisse> oh so it's not the kind of lockup i am thinking too
 [13:59:05]  <glisse> then just open the bug with a backtrace of X ie where X is spinning in an heavy loop
 [14:00:20]  <ssieb2> it appears to be stuck in RADEONWaitForIdleCP which calls drmCommandNone which calls ioctl
 [14:00:49]  <ssieb2> top-level it's trying to set gamma
 [14:01:43]  <glisse^ and stoping X and restarting one give you a functional computer ?
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[14:02:58]  <ssieb2> no, it's impossible to kill X, it requires a reboot
 [14:03:55]  <glisse^ ok usual lockup
 [14:04:32]  <glisse> there is not much you can do without heavy knowledge of radeon hw
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[14:15:01]  <ssieb2> :-(
 [14:16:33]  <glisse^ disable dri
 [14:16:42]  <glisse> if you don't use 3d this won't hurt you
 [14:17:49]  <ssieb2> sure, but it's annoying and I may want 3d at some point
 [14:18:00]  <ssieb2> and it's still a *BUG* :-)
 [14:18:14]  <glisse^ well we are working on fixing it
 [14:18:45]  <ssieb2> ok, I was just hoping I would be able to help...
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[14:32:55]  <ssieb2> oh, I just noticed the following line in the X log:
 [14:33:00]  <ssieb2> (WW) RADEON(0): R500 support is under development. Please report any issues to xorg-driver-ati@lists.x.org
 [14:48:44]  <nha> by the way
 [14:48:58]  <nha> glisse: do you have a 100% way of reproducing the lockups?
 [14:49:15]  <nha> I mean, something completely deterministic that you can turn into a programmed test case?
 [14:49:55]  <nha> if not, ssieb2 may still have valuable information ;)
 [14:51:06]  <ssieb2> it may actually be a hardware failure or else it caused one...
 [14:51:21]  <ssieb2> my computer will not turn on the screen now :-/
 [14:52:28]  <nha> have you performed a cold boot?
 [14:58:58]  <ssieb2> yes
 [14:59:19]  <ssieb2> that's what I mean.  even the BIOS can't turn it on...
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[17:23:31]  <joeyadams> On my Radeon 9250 PCI, the Linux driver has great performance with 3D unless information changes rapidly (e.g. a lot of things happening in a game).  There isn't a lot of CPU consumption when this happens, though.  I'm guessing the driver doesn't transfer data as quickly across the PCI bus as it could.  What part of the (free) ATI driver would I be interested in studying if I wanted to improve on this?
 [17:24:05]  <Ori_B^ start with sysprof to see where the time is going
 [17:24:17]  <cjb+ I think you might want to ask again in #radeon (or #ati, I forget which)
 [17:24:33]  <joeyadams> Okay, thanks
 [17:24:37]  <joeyadams> Where is sysprof?
 [17:24:47]  <ajax> typically there's no moving data across the bus faster
 [17:24:53]  <ajax> there's only moving less data
 [17:24:57]  <agd5f> joeyadams: PCI radeons are real slow
 [17:25:04]  <cjb> ajax: there might be unintentional copies, though, I guess.
 [17:25:12]  <joeyadams> It runs faster on Windows, if I'm not mistaken.
 [17:25:51]  <agd5f> we never figured out why
 [17:26:31]  <cjb> joeyadams: sysprof's a system-wide profiler.
 [17:26:32]  <ajax^ we do a bad job of keeping vertex lists on the card, last i checked.
 [17:26:50]  <cjb> joeyadams: it'll tell you whether your time's being spent in memcpy(), radeon driver functions, mesa, etc.
 [17:27:07]  <cjb> it needs debug symbols, though.  and it runs as a GUI on the host under test, which is kinda weird, so you might want to use oprofile instead.
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[17:28:09]  <joeyadams> It doesn't seem to be consuming more CPU when Tremulous lags due to stuff changing.
 [17:28:15]  <agd5f> IIRC, someone suggested PAT may help, but I don't recall the details
 [17:29:30]  <joeyadams> What's PAT?
 [17:29:39]  <joeyadams> Port Address Translation?
 [17:29:50]  <joeyadams> Page Allocation Table
 [17:29:51]  <joeyadams> ?
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[17:30:18]  <airlied> page attribute table
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[17:30:36]  * airlied always forgets if PAT can help PCI radeons.
 [17:30:53]  <airlied> I think the mappings all end up cache coherent anyways.
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[19:36:56]  <whot> onestone: pong
 [19:38:33]  <onestone^ I'm getting this with xserver master http://pastebin.com/m434d091c It works with xserver before MPX merge
 [19:40:01]  <glisse> win 3
 [19:40:49]  <whot> onestone: crap. what app causes the map change?
 [19:41:02]  <onestone> kdm
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[19:43:01]  <onestone> whot: If I use the kbd keyboard driver I get a crash on each button press. It is also xkb related but I don't have the backtrace anymore
 [19:44:49]  <whot^ what does gdb say?
 [19:45:52]  <onestone^ I have currently no second PC to do gdb over ssh
 [19:46:09]  <whot> doh
 [19:49:36]  <whot> onestone: so my gut feeling is that an uninitialised pointer is being freed during a realloc
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[19:51:23]  <onestone> whot: I will try to get some gdb backtraces tommorow
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[19:54:44]  <whot> onestone: thx. if you have the sources, just look for uninitialised pointers in the xkb allocations. there's still a fair few around
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[20:09:30]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2724 files changed, 175827 insertions(+), 590429 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000.
[20:09:30]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
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[20:20:57]  <scgtrp> how do programs tell the x server what to draw? i know it goes through xlib, but how does the information get from one process to another?
 [20:23:40]  <DrNick> via the network stack
 [20:26:01]  <scgtrp> ah. i don't see it in netstat -l though... unless it's port 41572 (doesn't say what it is) or a "UNIX domain socket"
 [20:27:10]  <DrNick> it is a Unix domain socket
 [20:27:20]  <DrNick> unless you're actually dealing with an X server on a different machine
 [20:27:27]  <scgtrp> nope, local
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[22:15:16]  <joeyadams> Wikipedia:  "EXA is considered a stopgap measure to improve X.Org Server performance before the server is moved entirely to OpenGL." => So XAA, EXA, and OpenGL all have essentially the same role?  To provide a common interface between video hardware and applications that grants video acceleration?
 [22:15:41]  <joeyadams> and OpenGL could theoretically replace XAA and be just as useful in every aspect?
 [22:15:47]  <joeyadams> (and EXA)
 [22:15:58]  <joeyadams> I'm a newbie trying to learn more about Xorg and drivers and stuff :)
 [22:16:36]  <Lrrr> AFAIK, OpenGL is not a library that is meant to speak to the hardware.
 [22:18:22]  <Lrrr> oh perhaps I'm totally wrong and should shut up.
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[22:25:06]  <Lrrr> I'll need to dig more into that too.
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[23:07:41]  <joeyadams> In what part of the ati driver source would I find the 3D acceleration stuff?  (what would pertain to 3D programs like glxgears and Tremulous)
 [23:08:46]  <DrNick> that's in mesa and the drm, not the X driver
 [23:09:03]  <joeyadams> oh
 [23:09:38]  <joeyadams> Is there any code in the X driver that activates the mesa code?
 [23:10:08]  <joeyadams> (I noticed that Tremulous performs only slightly worse when I mv the stuff in /usr/lib/dri to get them to not load.
 [23:10:20]  <cjb`^ there's a Radeon architecture page that might help
 [23:10:22]  <joeyadams> Actually, by slightly, I mean maybe 30% decrease.
 [23:10:36]  <cjb`> hm, no, it's too low level
 [23:11:24]  <joeyadams> so when a program like Tremulous wants to run, it talks to mesa, and mesa spearheads all the 3D stuff without much involvement from the X driver?
 [23:11:55]  <cjb`> It makes OpenGL calls, which are implemented by Mesa, and those are converted into operations that are accelerated by the X driver.
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[23:12:21]  <joeyadams> so everything eventually does drain down to the X driver, then?
 [23:12:37]  <DrNick> no
 [23:14:29]  <airlied> http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/dri_data_flow.html
 [23:14:59]  <joeyadams> Would this be a good read for me?  http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Radeon%25Architecture  .  I'm trying to learn more about the Radeon, X, and 3D architectures so I might be able to hack at and try to speed up the apparent PCI overhead issues.
 [23:15:14]  <joeyadams> I'll check out http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/dri_data_flow.html , too.
 [23:15:32]  <cjb^ That's the page I was going to recommend, before seeing that it doesn't help with your questions about data flow.
 [23:16:10]  <joeyadams> Oh
 [23:16:51]  <joeyadams> So all indirect 3D data drains down to the X server, right?
 [23:19:43]  <joeyadams> Thanks for guiding me in my learning adventure :)
 [23:20:08]  <airlied^ indirect GLX stuff goes over the socket to the X server into Mesa driver in t he X server and down to the hw
 [23:20:26]  <airlied> the mesa driver is loaded in both direct apps and in the X server for indirect apps
 [23:21:50]  <joeyadams> Where is mesa involved in Direct Rendering of 3D Data?
 [23:22:14]  <airlied^ its loaded into the direct rendering app by libGL
 [23:23:34]  <joeyadams> okay, thanks
 [23:24:54]  <joeyadams> Where's a good place to read about what DDX, DIX, and GLX are?
 [23:25:13]  <joeyadams> k, found the glossary
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[00:44:49]  <joeyadams> What benefit does EXT_texture_from_pixmap have over the traditional texture-loading system?  I guess it eliminates overhead of copying the pixmap data from the server to the client, then loading it back to the server?
 [00:45:53]  <airlied^ pretty much.. it justs uses the pixmap data as the texture
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[00:47:27]  <joeyadams> I tried running Compiz on my (old) iBook Clamshell one time.  It reported errors related to texture_from_pixmap and alignment.  Would a workaround using traditional methods work in that case?
 [00:47:42]  <airlied> it should fallback in that case
 [00:49:24]  <joeyadams> Compiz doesn't work on my Clamshell.  I get the following:  compiz (core) - Fatal: GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing
 [00:49:34]  <joeyadams> Why wouldn't the workaround be there?
 [00:49:40]  <joeyadams> Does it have to be implemented in the driver?
 [00:50:50]  <airlied^ that is just missing indirect rendering.
 [00:51:00]  <airlied> you need LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 before compiz
 [00:51:35]  <airlied> actually TFP does copy the pixmap around at the moment on some drivers
 [00:51:39]  <airlied> other drivers take the shortcut.
 [00:52:24]  <joeyadams> I get this after adding that:  Fatal: Support for non power of two textures missing
 [00:52:53]  <joeyadams> Oh, I guess that means the hardware can't support any kind of textures that don't have dimensions that are powers of two, right?
 [00:53:02]  <airlied> yup the hw can't deal with rectangular textures
 [00:53:40]  <joeyadams> How are power of two textures defined?  1x1, 2x2, 4x4, 8x8, 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, 128x128, 256x256, 512x512, and 1024x1024?
 [00:53:46]  <airlied> pretty much
 [00:53:53]  <joeyadams> (and no others, not even 2x512)
 [00:53:58]  <airlied> and those.
 [00:54:06]  <joeyadams> oh
 [00:54:06]  <airlied> width doesn't have to equal height
 [00:55:17]  <joeyadams> Would it be theoretically possible to composite on the Clamshell by using textures that are powers of two and just not using the excess space?  (though it would take extra code)
 [00:55:47]  <airlied> yes.. not sure it would be worth it..
 [00:55:57]  <joeyadams> Okay, thanks
 [00:56:01]  <joeyadams> Just wanted to know
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[01:52:08]  <airlied> christ deepak again..
 [01:54:10]  <vignatti> who is this guy?
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[01:56:10]  <airlied> vignatti: no idea.. he seems to love X11R7.1 :)
 [01:56:42]  <vignatti> heh
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[02:43:04]  <dberkholz> it was a classic release.
 [02:43:17]  <dberkholz> perhaps the last one before the evdev mess began?
 [02:43:59]  <airlied> he could be stuck on RHEL 5 :)
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[03:13:27]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:59:12]  <johnflux> have you guys considered moving to cmake for example?
 [06:59:20]  <johnflux> instead of the current autotools system
 [06:59:38]  <johnflux> (i'm not saying it's a good idea, just curious on any reasons for/against)
 [07:00:19]  <tjaalton^ see xorg-devel@ archives
 [07:03:46]  <johnflux^ googling  xorg-devel archives   doesn't seem to have relevant hits..
 [07:04:22]  <johnflux> ah nm
 [07:04:24]  <johnflux> found it :)
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[07:27:21]  <glisse> nha: i do have a reliable systematic way to lockup :)
 [07:27:34]  <glisse> not easy to turn into a test though
 [07:27:41]  <johnflux^ pour treacle onto the motherboard
 [07:28:22]  <glisse^ no
 [07:29:03]  <glisse> nha: basicly run heavy app window game, i am using celestia big texture and use of index buffer rendering
 [07:29:39]  <glisse> fireup few glxgears (one is often enough for me) and as soon as you move the glxgears windows over celestia tada lockup
 [07:29:48]  <glisse> it can lockup before being over celestia
 [07:30:05]  <glisse> cmdfifo dump i posted were done with this case
 [07:30:29]  <glisse> and so far this is the last remaining case of lockup on this card (x550)
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[07:59:44]  <johnflux> tjaalton: reading the archives, it seems that there are a couple of problems, but nothing particular insummountable
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[09:23:36]  <whot_> anyone know if simon thum is on irc? and if so, by which name?
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[10:25:11]  <anderco> how do I calculate the size in bytes of a pixmap line, including padding?
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[10:42:45]  <MrCooper> anderco: in the server?
 [10:42:55]  <anderco^ yes
 [10:43:10]  <MrCooper^ that's pPixmap->devKind, in bytes
 [10:43:45]  <anderco^ i'm not sure if I aked the right question
 [10:43:56]  <anderco> asked
 [10:44:18]  <anderco> MrCooper: somewhere in the vnc code there is a call to PixmapBytePad
 [10:44:30]  <anderco> this macro takes as arguments only a width and a depth
 [10:45:37]  <anderco> MrCooper: do yoy know what is the meaning of this?
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[10:46:54]  <MrCooper> of the PixmapBytePad macro?
 [10:47:00]  <anderco^ yes
 [10:47:15]  <MrCooper> not sure, I think it's mostly for protocol data alignment
 [10:47:22]  <JohnFlux> anderco: sounds to me that it does something like  width * depth  + alignment
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[10:47:53]  <MrCooper> anyway, for any given pixmap the delta between two consecutive lines (usually called pitch or stride) is stored in the devKind field
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[10:48:43]  <JohnFlux> #define PixmapBytePad(w, d)     (PixmapWidthInPadUnits(w, d) << PixmapWidthPaddingInfo[d].padBytesLog2)
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[10:50:41]  <anderco> the size of a pad unit is fixed?
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[10:51:50]  <JohnFlux> anderco: it basically ensures that the width is aligned nicely
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[10:52:26]  <anderco> the code I'm seeing does the following
 [10:52:29]  <anderco> int truewidth = PixmapBytePad(width, in->bitsPerPixel) / 4
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[10:52:50]  <anderco> and use this truewidth in a pScreen->GetImage call
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[10:53:10]  <anderco> but when running in 16 bits, truewidth is smaller than width
 [10:53:15]  * JohnFlux nods
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[10:53:19]  <JohnFlux> that 4 assumes 32bit
 [10:53:28]  <JohnFlux> you want to divide by bytes per pixel
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[10:53:58]  <JohnFlux> int width_in_pixels = PixmapBytePad(width, in->bitsPerPixel) * 8 / in->bitsPerPixel;
 [10:54:00]  <JohnFlux> for example
 [10:54:15]  <JohnFlux> (i dislike the term 'truewidth' heh)
 [10:54:35]  <anderco> I'll try that. thanks for the help
 [10:54:41]  <JohnFlux> so basically   width_in_pixels  is going to be greater or equal to width
 [10:55:08]  <JohnFlux> anderco: for example, if the width is 3, width_in_pixels might be set to 4, or even 8.  just because 4 is a nicer number than 3
 [10:56:57]  <JohnFlux> but I can't promise that will work in all cases btw.  bitsPerPixel  doesn't have to be nice
 [10:57:18]  <JohnFlux> I have a machine with 18 bits per pixel, for example
 [10:57:46]  <JohnFlux> imho, you are better off sticking to width_in_bytes
 [10:58:20]  <JohnFlux> and not calculating width_in_pixels.    you don't ever need that anyway, since the real width is the variable 'width'
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[12:39:12]  <CE> hi
 [12:39:55]  <CE> does exaDoMoveOutPixmap moves "out" to vram or ram?
 [12:40:48]  <CE> my program spends about 70% of total time in exaDoMoveOutPixmap :-/
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[12:44:10]  <tilman> CE: system ram
 [12:44:21]  <CE> ah
 [12:44:37]  <CE> tilman: is there any way to "hint" EXA to not store a pixmap in vram?
 [12:45:06]  <CE> what I do is XDrawLine to an 8-bit pixmap (which I guess causes the fallback)
 [12:45:23]  <CE> and later use that 8-bit pixmap as mask for composition
 [12:46:43]  <CE> reading through exa_migration it seems exa migrates based on a "score"
 [12:46:58]  <CE> does XDrawLine not cause the score to go down?
 [12:47:50]  <tilman> i think you can control migration if you set up your own CreatePixmap/DestroyPixmap/ModifyPixmapHeader hooks
 [12:48:15]  <tilman> other than that there's only the migration scheme config value, but you probably shouldn't touch that ;)
 [12:48:57]  <tilman> no idea how the core is calculated these days
 [12:49:33]  <CE> well, I ment as as app programmer ;)
 [12:49:37]  <CE> sorry about the confusion
 [12:49:40]  <tilman> nah, that would be silly
 [12:49:48]  <CE> well, but its silly now
 [12:49:57]  <CE> i would prefer the mask to stay in sysmem
 [12:50:12]  <tilman> try to find out why exa decides to migrate your pixmaps
 [12:50:14]  <CE> for now it ping-pongs between sysmem and vram
 [12:50:42]  <tilman> maybe XDrawLine() is just doomed :p
 [12:51:04]  <CE> well, I need it and its still way faster than trapezoids
 [12:51:11]  <CE> oh, seems that its not the lines
 [12:51:45]  <CE> lines are just 14% according to sysprog, the rest is caused by exaComposite
 [12:52:21]  <CE> could it be that EXA pulls src and dst out of vram, just because the mask is in sysram?
 [12:52:57]  <tilman> it probably tries to move in the mask first
 [12:53:12]  <tilman> but yes, if that fails, src and dst will have to be moved out
 [12:53:38]  <CE> and what could be the reasons to make the mask migration fail?
 [12:53:43]  <CE> low score?
 [12:54:30]  <tilman> no memory left
 [12:54:53]  <tilman> but if the render op cannot be done in hardware anyway stuff will be moved out of course
 [12:55:28]  <CE> well, its just rgb24 -> rgb24 with a8 mask
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[12:56:06]  <CE> ah, I think I hit again a bug I found a week ago
 [12:56:53]  <CE> composition with a src generated by XRenderCreateSolidFill falls back alway
 [12:57:07]  <CE> I'll try again, thanks for the explanations
 [12:57:18]  <CE> and sorry for asking that much
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[12:58:47]  <astromme> Is there a list of XEvents and their type ids? For example, I have the event type 28 and 11, what are those?
 [13:01:25]  <Lrrr^ isn't that in the protocol doc?
 [13:02:16]  <astromme> [12:02:29] <jcristau> astromme: the event names are in <X11/X.h>
 [13:02:21]  <astromme> I think that will work
 [13:02:39]  <Lrrr> I guess so.
 [13:03:30]  <dberkholz> whot_: could you perhaps kick out releases of some of the protos and libs with mpx support?
 [13:04:32]  <dberkholz> it's making it kinda painful to write packages for things like your gnome gui
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[14:38:34]  <[eRISILMEz> !
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[14:52:42]  <joeyadams> Is 1000 calls to radeon_emit_vectors per frame (in Tremulous, for example) absurd?
 [14:54:31]  <ajax> not necessarily.  depends on what the app does.
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[14:55:06]  <joeyadams> It seems that the Radeon PCI goes very slow when radeon_emit_vectors gets called more per frame.
 [14:55:27]  <ajax> hmm.  lemme read what that does again
 [14:56:01]  <ajax> (my instinct is telling me that doing a thousand of anything per frame is probably something that we could fix, but it's been a while since i looked at this)
 [14:56:17]  <joeyadams> I remember asking earlier why the Radeon PCI is slow, and someone mentioned that it may be because there's a problem with holding vectors on the card)
 [14:56:33]  <joeyadams> I'm guessing that it's commonplace (this example was Tremulous in a very busy human base)
 [14:56:40]  <joeyadams> and I was getting 3 fps
 [14:56:48]  <joeyadams> (when it's not busy, it's about 28 fps)
 [14:56:52]  <ajax> i think that was me.  and i think i said vertices, not vectors.  not that there's a whole lot of difference.
 [14:56:55]  <joeyadams> When there's no action at all, it's about 70 fps
 [14:57:01]  <joeyadams> oh
 [14:57:13]  <ajax> which card is this again?
 [14:57:18]  <cjb> joeyadams: thanks for looking at this, by the way
 [14:57:20]  <joeyadams> Radeon 9250 PCI
 [14:57:31]  <cjb^ always good to have new people interested, and even better to fix bugs :)
 [14:57:44]  <joeyadams> I'm a noob at this, but I try to get my own problems fixed :)
 [14:57:45]  <cjb> (actually, maybe I even have the betterness the wrong way arouhd there.)
 [15:00:07]  <joeyadams> What's a good way to learn how to fix this?
 [15:00:59]  <joeyadams> I kind of understand what DRI, DRM, GLX, DDX, DIX, and mesa are now, I just wonder what a good way of approaching understanding the Radeon driver is.
 [15:01:27]  <cjb> sounds like you're getting there already; keep using profiling to find interesting functions, then look at the code to try and work out what they do and why.
 [15:01:51]  <ajax> you probably don't need to understand the whole driver.  (which is a good thing, since i don't think anyone _does_)
 [15:01:55]  <joeyadams> I was using printk traces and reading time with jiffies.  In this case, it wasn't a matter of time, but frequency.
 [15:02:17]  <joeyadams> the ones with time '0' were what I was interested in
 [15:02:40]  <ajax> typically what i do with problems like this is change the code and see how that changes the running behaviour
 [15:03:01]  <joeyadams> Yeah, I've been trying that with things.
 [15:03:16]  <ajax> so radeon_emit_vectors looks like it doesn't really do much
 [15:03:26]  <joeyadams> It looks like this is going to mostly involve the Mesa DRI driver
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[15:04:23]  <ajax> it looks like it's just stuffing commands at the end of the command buffer with some light sanity checking to make sure they're something the card won't cough on
 [15:06:27]  <ajax> so if i had to guess: i think we put the command buffer in a different memory space for pci cards compared to agp or pcie
 [15:07:20]  <ajax> the trick is you have to make the command list "complete" before you give it to the card to execute; if it's still stuck in the CPU's cache and hasn't been flushed to memory, then it ain't gonna work.
 [15:08:14]  <ajax> the process for doing that is slightly different depending on the bus type, so it might be that the way we're doing it for pci is less efficient than it could be
 [15:08:54]  <ajax> (say it's all still in host memory; you'd have to flush the cpu cache on every command buffer submit, which ain't gonna be fast)
 [15:09:07]  <agd5f> joeyadams: r2xx PCI and above were always MUCH slower than they should have been even considering the bus limitations
 [15:09:15]  <agd5f> we never were able to figure out why
 [15:09:40]  <ajax^ yeah, that's why i'm betting on memory domain silliness.
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[15:10:07]  <agd5f> r1xx pci seems to perform about where it should have
 [15:11:31]  <ajax> well, r100 was never a speed demon ;)
 [15:12:16]  <agd5f> heh, yeah, but the drop off where what we expected, while r2xx+ was much more signifigant
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[15:15:40]  <ajax> mm.  firemv 2400 is an r200 chip, right?
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[15:18:21]  <ajax> pciids says 2400 is an m24 but 2200 was an rv280.  nevermind.
 [15:19:41]  <ajax> well, i guess m24 should still show the problem.  i've got both the pci and pcie firemv 2400s, and i need to do some testing on them tomorrow anyway.
 [15:20:57]  <agd5f^ I committed a patch from wolke a couple week ago
 [15:21:09]  <agd5f> it's an rv380 IIRC
 [15:21:41]  <ajax> hey, so you did.  yeah, m24 == rv380 according to the big wikipedia table.
 [15:26:35]  <joeyadams> How do I install a custom-compiled radeon_dri.so ?  Just replace the current one at /usr/lib/dri/radeon_dri.so with my new one (after backing up the original) and running a program that uses OpenGL?
 [15:26:39]  <joeyadams> or do I need to restart X
 [15:27:22]  <ajax> if you're just testing games, just replace the one in /usr/lib/dri, yeah
 [15:27:37]  <joeyadams> Yeah, that's what I'll try
 [15:27:46]  <ajax> there's also a path where the X server will load the DRI driver, and for that you need to reload X, but you normally don't hit that path.
 [15:27:48]  <joeyadams> Are there severe version sensitivity issues?
 [15:27:57]  <ajax> usually not, no.
 [15:28:22]  <ajax> if there's version skew you'll know because it just won't work ;)
 [15:31:30]  <joeyadams> Hmm, there seem to be a lot of fallback radeon drivers
 [15:31:34]  <joeyadams> dri, that is
 [15:32:02]  <ajax> fallback?  not really.
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[15:52:07]  <joeyadams> Thanks for the help.  I'm mainly going to figure out how I can compile and modify my Radeon DRI library.
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[17:00:05]  <joeyadams> Okay, I got my Radeon DRI library (r200_dri.so) compiled, and I did a little test:  I made it so after a certain time, emit_vector only takes half of the vectors its given.  The framerate in high action doubled, I think.
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[17:01:49]  <joeyadams> ajax, you were talking about the possibility that using a different memory domain could possibly improve performance.  Memory domain for what?
 [17:02:10]  <joeyadams> I know of two memory maps, the frame buffer (on my card, it's 128MB), and the MMIO buffer (64kb)
 [17:02:18]  <joeyadams> the latter is where all the register access happens.
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[17:06:39]  <joeyadams> " so if i had to guess: i think we put the command buffer in a different memory space for pci cards compared to agp or pcie" => Is the command buffer that CP thing in the MMIO, or is it memory allocated and used by the driver?
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[17:07:31]  <airlied> pci is cache coherent mostly, so it will be slower due to coherency overhead compared to a 1x AGP.
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[17:08:37]  <airlied> I'm not sure how the DRM maps pages for PCI buffers though.
 [17:08:45]  <airlied> they may get mapped uncached or write combined ..
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[17:11:43]  <DrNick> something in the EXA/pixman/R200 stack misrenders https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=328074
 [17:12:09]  <DrNick> as this https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=328075
 [17:17:39]  <joeyadams> I browsed to the first one in Firefox 3, and it rendered correctly for me.
 [17:17:48]  <joeyadams> (I have a Radeon 9250)
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[17:28:43]  <DrNick> correctly being a thin red border on the top/right/bottom with rounded corners?
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[17:29:07]  <DrNick> you're not running on AMD64, are you?
 [17:29:34]  <joeyadams> I'm on an Intel Pentium 4 Northwood single core
 [17:29:40]  <joeyadams> Radeon 9250 PCI
 [17:29:58]  <joeyadams> I use the r200_dri.so as my DRI, and radeon as my DRM.
 [17:30:02]  <DrNick> I think this is 64-bit only
 [17:30:18]  <joeyadams> You mean if the page is just opened in Firefox?
 [17:30:21]  <joeyadams> Or anything?
 [17:30:40]  <joeyadams> I'm on Firefox 3 and Fedora Rawhide (bleeding edge) if that matters.
 [17:30:59]  <DrNick> that particular page and a bunch of other sites with similar markup, plus all the text entry fields in Firefox
 [17:31:51]  <joeyadams> Is that with the X server 1.5?
 [17:31:54]  <DrNick> well, no, the text entry fields just have a gray background instead of white, except for the odd redraw
 [17:32:13]  <DrNick> xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.4.99.905-1.20080701.fc9.x86_64
 [17:32:16]  <joeyadams> okay
 [17:32:26]  <joeyadams> What Radeon is it?
 [17:32:33]  <DrNick> FireGL 8800
 [17:32:39]  <joeyadams> oh
 [17:33:31]  <joeyadams> I'm not getting that to happen on my card.
 [17:33:56]  <joeyadams> Perhaps it's cache concurrency issues?  I don't know, I'm a newbie :)
 [17:34:01]  <DrNick> again, I think this is a 64-bit only problem
 [17:34:15]  <joeyadams> yeah
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[17:44:46]  <joeyadams> In the Radeon DRI code, there's a file called r200_maos.c .  What does maos stand for?
 [17:46:57]  <airlied> AOS is array of structures.
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[17:50:37]  <joeyadams> oh, thanks
 [17:50:44]  <joeyadams> the M is still there.  Memory?
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[18:04:25]  <airlied> joeyadams: multiple maybe..
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[19:39:58]  <joeyadams> When a Mesa OpenGL program wants to use the programmable vertex shader, does it provide the instructions in GLSL, which are then converted by Mesa and the video driver into instructions the video card can understand?
 [19:40:16]  <joeyadams> Or do OpenGL commands get turned into vertex shader commands for each respective card?
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[19:55:50]  <airlied> joeyadams: GL interface gets dealt with by mesa and the dri driver.
 [19:55:59]  <airlied> some parts generic code some parts driver specific.
 [19:56:14]  <airlied> it get turned into a card specific command stream and sent to the card.
 [19:57:31]  <joeyadams> Okay, thanks
 [19:57:47]  <joeyadams> I was reading on Wikipedia about GLSL, and I was wondering where that comes in.
 [19:57:55]  <joeyadams> (GL Shader Language)
 [19:58:37]  <airlied^ GLSL is just a highend interface, it gets converted in mesa by a frontend.
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[20:01:56]  <joeyadams> okay, thanks
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[20:14:53]  <knao> i have what should be an easy question - how do I focus one of the windows in my program?
 [20:15:01]  <knao> (I'm using GTK if that matters)
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[20:41:26]  <whot_> knao: XSetInputFocus in xlib. no idea how to do it in gtk
 [20:43:55]  <whot_> dberkholz: k. will try to get a xcb pre-release, that's basically blocking it right now.
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[20:55:28]  <dberkholz> whot_: sounds good. have fun with that
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[20:57:55]  <CE> if EXA hits a fallback and calls exaPrepareAccess for a pixmap, is the entire pixmap read back to ram, or only the area where the operation is targeted to?
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[20:59:35]  <ajax> CE: that's not what PrepareAccess does.
 [21:00:07]  <ajax> PA just makes sure that the pixmap is CPU-addressable
 [21:00:49]  <joeyadams^ I found an interesting comment in mesa/src/mesa/lib/r200/r200_maos_arrays.c :  "Currently, can only use arrays, verts are not implemented, though verts are suspected to be faster.  To get an idea how the verts path works, look at the radeon implementation."
 [21:00:56]  <ajax> for some hardware this requires changing device page tables (eg, if you have more VRAM than fits in a PCI BAR), or setting up device surfaces to correct for endianness or tiling.
 [21:01:22]  <joeyadams> Perhaps that's why my Radeon PCI is so slow when there's a lot of action.
 [21:01:27]  <ajax> could be!
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[21:02:35]  <CE> hmm, in my sysprof profile i see ExaCheckPolySegment->exaPrepareAxxess->/Reg->exaDoMigration->exaDoMoveOutPixmap
 [21:02:52]  <CE> thats my hottest path, but I simply can't avoid the lines
 [21:04:58]  <ajax> why are they falling back?
 [21:05:10]  <CE> because Exa can't accalerate diagonal lines
 [21:05:28]  <ajax> oh wow, someone actually using core X lines for diagonals.
 [21:05:40]  <CE> jep ;)
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[21:06:01]  <ajax> you know.
 [21:06:35]  <ajax> i bet we could do better there by rasterizing the core line to a bitmap, converting that to a region, and doing a solid fill through it.
 [21:07:37]  <CE> i guess it would give far better performance
 [21:07:42]  <ajax> how long of a polyline are we talking here?
 [21:07:49]  <ajax> fits in 64x64 or so?
 [21:07:56]  <CE> most of the time
 [21:08:17]  <CE> guess its quite short, maybe 5 to 20px long
 [21:08:22]  <CE> average
 [21:08:57]  <CE> so is EXA migrating back to sysmem, because the pixmap in vram is not cpu adressable?
 [21:09:33]  <ajax> not really.  the rules for when to migrate back out are a bit fuzzier than that.
 [21:09:48]  <ajax> (i hadn't caught that PA would trigger migration.  sorry about that.)
 [21:10:08]  <CE> PA?
 [21:10:15]  <CE> ah
 [21:10:18]  <CE> soryy
 [21:10:46]  <CE> my problem is that the pixmap I am drawing to is used as mask
 [21:10:46]  <ajax> well, you've given me a challenge, and i just opened a beer.  wanna wait 30 minutes or so while i hack something up? ;)
 [21:11:17]  <CE> so the pixmap is pinged-ponged between vram and sysmem
 [21:11:20]  <CE> wow :)
 [21:11:28]  <CE> for sure!
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[21:48:46]  <ajax> man, that 30 minute estimate wasn't too far off.  wonder if it works.
 [21:49:00]  <ajax> CE: http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/exa-polysegment-me-harder.patch might maybe do something like what you want.
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[21:49:43]  <CE> wow, thanks a lot
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[21:50:07]  <Battousai> that patch sounds dirty and exciting
 [21:50:23]  <CE> it is :)
 [21:51:55]  <ajax> i always feel a little dirty using scratch GCs from within another GC
 [21:53:00]  <CE> sorry about the naive question, what is a scratch pixmap?
 [21:53:15]  <CE> is it intended to be used and then thrown away
 [21:55:02]  <ajax> yeah.  the scratch there is a bitmap.  it only exists to hold the output of doing the same polysegment request again but at 1bpp.
 [21:55:13]  <ajax> because we have code to turn bitmaps into regions.
 [21:56:02]  <CE> and whats a region?
 [21:56:25]  <ajax> a collection of descriptions of rectangles.  in this case, it's being used as a clip list.
 [21:57:24]  <ajax> so: take the line segments you were going to draw and turn them into a region describing its outline, intersect that outline with the original cliplist for your GC, and solid fill through it.
 [21:59:07]  <ajax> the intersect is because "the original cliplist" also accounts for things like windows that overlap the lines you're trying to draw.
 [21:59:26]  <CE> ah, now its clearer :)
 [22:00:54]  <ajax> the existing accel in exaPolySegment did essentially the same thing, but skipped directly to the solid fill since it had proved there was a trivial translation from the segments you asked for to rectangles.
 [22:03:34]  <CE> yes, I saw that
 [22:03:57]  <CE> could it be that this puzzled migration heuristics?
 [22:04:11]  <CE> because some lines where done with solid rects, and some fell back
 [22:04:45]  <ajax> probably.  we aren't very smart about avoiding thrashing.
 [22:04:56]  <CE> so you think setting up a clip-list is faster than what EXA does currently in the fallback case?
 [22:05:42]  <ajax> for most cases i'd bet it's faster.  you end up doing a moderate amount of work on the CPU, but you should be able to do it without migrating more than necessary and without stalling the GPU.
 [22:05:59]  <CE> with some math i should be able to do this from the client too, right?
 [22:06:17]  <CE> what I tried was drawing lines with 1x1 rects, but that was horrible slow
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[22:07:23]  <CE> sorry for bothering you that much
 [22:07:27]  <ajax> sure.  in principle there's no kind of drawing that only the server can do.  it's just about making it go fast.
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[22:08:00]  <joeyadams> What is a GLvector4f, and what is it for?  The Doxygen doesn't seem to have it documented.
 [22:08:14]  <ajax^ just four floats in a row.
 [22:08:41]  <ajax> typically used for normalized coordinates like (x, y, z, w)
 [22:08:46]  <joeyadams> There's other attributes to it.  start, count, stride, size, flags, and storage.
 [22:08:59]  <joeyadams> In TNL
 [22:10:07]  <joeyadams> Ah, it's documented in the header, just not in Doxygen format.
 [22:10:08]  <ajax> imagine you have a list of vectors, each of which determines the lighting at a vertex
 [22:10:37]  <joeyadams> Oh, the W means brightness, usually?
 [22:11:21]  <ajax> that's not too far off.  it's a bit more accurate to think of it as a global scale factor on the other three.
 [22:11:47]  <ajax> but calling it brightness is close enough for government work
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[22:12:01]  <joeyadams> oh
 [22:12:16]  <joeyadams> GLuint size;         /* 2-4 for vertices and 1-4 for texcoords */
 [22:12:35]  <ajax> anyway, done thinking for the day.  later all.
 [22:12:39]  <joeyadams> What's the size for?  There's a count and a stride
 [22:12:43]  <joeyadams> Okay, later
 [22:13:54]  <joeyadams> Thanks for the help
 [22:14:52]  <CE> so, could I do the same from the client-side simply by using XRenderSetPictureClipRectangles?
 [22:15:04]  <CE> if I've created my list of clip-rects?
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[22:27:30]  <CE> ajax: Thanks a lot for everything :)
 [22:27:41]  <CE> good night
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[03:39:34]  <b0le> whot: ping
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[04:21:27]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
 [04:23:25]  <whot> b0le: pong
 [04:26:27]  <b0le^ do you know how long it will be till the various specs are updated to consider mpx? (for instance ewmh need _NET_WM_MOVERESIZE changed, xdnd needs to be updated, etc)
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[04:28:41]  <whot> b0le: depends. how soon will you sit down and do it :)
 [04:29:06]  <b0le> as with drag and drop, it doesn't seem to work with multiple pointers - if I have 3 gedit windows open, and try drag text from two windows at once (looking at the spec, I assume that could be fixed if you had a XDndSelection per device)
 [04:29:37]  <whot^ selections are broken for multiple devices
 [04:30:40]  <whot> one of the many things on my TODO list
 [04:34:42]  <b0le^ ok
 [04:35:43]  <whot^ but seriously, dont expect this to happen anytime soon, so if you find the time yourself - go for it. you're probably better suited for the job anyway, since I have virtually know clue of EMWH
 [04:39:34]  <b0le^ yes, I understand. THough I don't think I would be better suited for it :) - but I will most likely look more at it anyways (I want to look more at xdnd, as that seems to be the main problem with IR, and I also want to do some work with your xi version of compiz)
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[06:15:35]  <CE> in my profile I see exaCopyDirty which spends a lot of time in miSubstract, but I did not find it in the source
 [06:15:43]  <CE> any idea why, is this implemented by the driver?
 [06:16:59]  <JohnFlux^ "in my profile"  meaning that you ran oprofile or similiar?
 [06:17:16]  <JohnFlux> it should be able to tell you what function calls miSubstract
 [06:17:26]  <CE> its sysprof
 [06:17:36]  <CE> the path is CheckPolySegment->PrepateAccess/Reg->DoMigration->MoveOutPixmaps->CopyDirty->miSubtract->pixman_region_subtract
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[06:17:52]  <MrCooper> CE: have you tried the patch I attached to your bug report?
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[06:18:13]  <MrCooper> CE: some of the region stuff is in pixman now
 [06:18:39]  <CE> pixman_region_subtract consumes 40% of all cycles spent in X
 [06:18:46]  <CE> oh, didn't know there was a patch :)
 [06:19:02]  <CE> I will look at it, cool, thanks :)
 [06:21:03]  <CE> ah cool, seems like both problems are related :)
 [06:21:44]  <CE> I will try the patch immediatly, thanks a lot
 [06:23:19]  <MrCooper> which both problems?
 [06:27:17]  <CE> I experienced another line-related performance problem
 [06:27:31]  <CE> also, the region tracking seems to be the problem
 [06:28:26]  <CE> thank you very much for looking into this
 [06:28:31]  <CE> and writing the patch
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[06:29:42]  <MrCooper> the other one being the one you reported originally in the bug report?
 [06:30:15]  <CE> no, I haven't reported it till now
 [06:30:32]  <CE> I thought I should look into the source instead of bothering others ^^
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[09:21:35]  <orki> Is there a way to get the call stack from the mtrace log for a leak? I built the xorg server with debug information and with mtrace support, but am having difficulty figuring out the location of a leak (redhat bug 454117 or fd.o bug 16316).
 [09:24:03]  <orki> anholt: Is there a way to figure out whether dri_bo_fake_unreference is never called for a given allocation in dri_bo_fake_reference?
[09:26:14]  <orki> agd5f: Thanks for your pointer
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[10:58:58]  <jcristau> hrm. with the vesa driver, randr tells me i have a connected output with output->crtc == None
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[10:59:55]  <Dr_Jakob> ajax: Did somebody update cgit?
 [11:00:06]  <ajax> i don't believe so.
 [11:00:08]  <ajax> should they have?
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[11:00:40]  <ajax> whoa.  new css maybe?
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[11:04:34]  <Dr_Jakob> ajax: branches and tags only show one entry.
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[12:48:27]  <ds> why am I only getting 3 glx visuals from xorg* master?
 [12:53:16]  <glisse^ likely because unused visual where removed
 [12:53:18]  <glisse> .win 5
 [12:54:21]  <ds> but now I can't play tuxracer!!1!
 [12:54:22]  <ds> :)
 [12:54:30]  <ajax> that seems unlikely.
 [12:54:57]  <ds> *** ppracer error: Couldn't initialize video: Couldn't find matching GLX visual
[12:55:04]  <ajax> the set of visuals we give you now should be one that's utterly minimal and one that's mostly complete, and then maybe some others.
 [12:55:20]  <ajax> so if it's not picking the mostly-complete one anymore...
 [12:57:30]  <ds> makes sense
 [12:57:51]  <ds> i always wondered why there was a huge list of glx visuals that were all approximately the same
 [12:58:02]  <jcristau> ajax: it looks like when using vesa, the server creates one randr output and one crtc, but doesn't properly hook them together on init (in RRScanOldConfig). xrandr --auto fixes it. do you have an idea what's going wrong?
 [12:58:11]  <ajax^ nope.
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[13:13:21]  <CE> MrCooper: thanks for the patch, it improves performance a lot
 [13:13:31]  <CE> even for non synthetic workloads :)
 [13:13:50]  <MrCooper> np
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[13:18:06]  <PauloZanoni> I've updated bug #6820 information. Could someone please take a look? (it's a patch in Xlib)
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[13:20:22]  <ssieb2> glisse: it appears that my problem was due to a failing card.  that would explain why it wasn't occurring on an identical machine.
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[14:49:37]  <jcristau> ajax: filed it as 16674, fwiw
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[15:19:45]  <PauloZanoni> alanc_away: I'm compiling your Xlib patch and I'll test it here at the university. If I find any bugs, I'll tell you.
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[16:18:34]  <ds> how do i get ttm working the intel driver these days?
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[16:29:23]  <ajax> keithp: can you justify b4193a2eee80895c5641e77488df0e72a73a3d99 ?
 [16:29:32]  <ajax> apparently it's causing bug #16674
 [16:29:48]  <ajax> and i'm having trouble deciphering the intent there
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[16:59:10]  <ajax> man.  PIE is insanely cool.
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[17:10:26]  <anholt> someone mentions pie and keithp doesn't jump in?  he must be on a plane.
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[17:10:54]  <anholt> ds: master of drm, then 2d driver, then mesa with --enable-ttm-api
 [17:11:28]  <ds^ that didn't seem to work
 [17:11:51]  <ds> I'm still getting "Failed to initialize TTM buffer manager..."
 [17:12:22]  <anholt> does the memory allocation layout in xorg.0.log mention buffer objects?
 [17:13:36]  <ds> nothing in grep 'buffer ob'
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[17:14:17]  <anholt> (II) intel(0): BO memory allocation layout:
 [17:14:29]  <ds^ or, is there some other configuration i should be testing now that there's new code in town?
 [17:14:42]  <anholt> gem's what all us intel guys are working on
 [17:15:13]  <anholt> ttm will get removed from the intel driver "soon" (once we get gem merged)
 [17:15:20]  <ds> I don't have the above line
 [17:15:31]  <anholt> then your 2d driver is fali
 [17:15:32]  <anholt> fail
 [17:15:35]  <ds> heh
 [17:15:42]  <anholt> make sure the configure.ac test is succeeding
 [17:15:49]  <ds> ah, ok
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[17:17:00]  <ds> which test is that?
 [17:17:13]  <anholt> xf86drm_mm or something
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[17:17:47]  * krh wishes for a linux kernel tree with just gem added
 [17:18:37]  <krh> anholt: you must have something like that if you're planning to push it upstream for the next merge window ;)
 [17:18:41]  <anholt^ people.freedesktop.org:~anholt/linux-2.6 drm-gem (kernel patches needed for gem)
 [17:19:02]  <anholt> I don't have time to worry about kernel merge windows.  it'll be finished when it's finished, I can't really shrink my schedule.
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[17:21:01]  <ds> anholt: grrr... xf86-video-intel is checking for libdrm >= 2.4.0 for XF86DRI_MM
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[17:33:19]  <ds> ok, haxxored the requirement and it works
 [17:33:21]  <ds> sweet
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[19:25:57]  <Kebianizao> Hello
 [19:26:28]  <Kebianizao> is there xorg api documentation available? I'd focus on xserver
 [19:26:34]  <cworth> Hmm... so I just compiled everything for the server, (following http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/git [*]).
 [19:26:49]  <cworth> [*] Plus a few additional notes I've kept that I'll get into the wiki soon.
 [19:27:09]  <cworth> The server starts, but I get no functional keyboard or mouse, nor any complaint in the log file.
 [19:28:12]  <cworth> I see mouse_drv.so and kbd_drv.so in /opt/xorg/lib/xorg/modules/input/ and the server is loading lots of things from /opt/xorg/lib/xorg/modules/*/ but nothing from modules/input. Any ideas what I did wrong this time?
 [19:28:41]  * cworth has been through this three times from scratch this week and still wishes it were more repeatable...
 [19:29:12]  <ds^ i tend to use jhbuild for this
 [19:29:25]  <ds> although i'm not sure how it would help in this case
 [19:29:33]  <cworth> Oh, and look, "could not open default font 'fixed'". I guess my --enable-builtin-fonts option didn't take.... Ah well.
 [19:30:03]  <cworth> ds: Yeah, I *think* I followed the recipe precisely, (though jhbuild certainly would have done it more precisely).
 [19:30:28]  <ds^ is it using your original /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
 [19:30:39]  <cworth^ Yes.
 [19:30:49]  <cworth> No notices, warnings, or errors in the log.
 [19:31:11]  <ds> which prsumably has an InputDevice, Driver "mouse" in it
 [19:31:25]  <cworth> The config file is pretty simple, with 'Driver "mouse"' and 'Driver "kbd"' in it.
 [19:31:44]  <cworth> I'm more accustomed to the server just failling if it can't load those.
 [19:32:21]  <ds> that is the end of my debugging skills
 [19:32:53]  <cworth^ Heh. Thanks for trying! :-)
 [19:33:28]  <cworth> Ugh, I authored a commit as "root <root@samich.home.cworth.org>", Sorry about that, everyone.
 [19:33:52]  * cworth is still getting some things setup on this new laptop...
 [19:34:56]  * cworth looks at Peter's recent AllowEmptyInput changes...
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[19:51:21]  <cworth> Ah, hurrah! Backing up to the last commit I touched and the mouse works again. So probably NOTMYFAULT! :-)
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[20:42:38]  <Kebianizao> as regards with the question that brought me here, one good starting point would be: http://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.0/doc/PDF/DESIGN.pdf that you may know
 [20:42:51]  <Kebianizao> I didn't :)
 [20:42:58]  <Kebianizao> well, bye all
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[22:00:24]  <sharp15> how do i find information for using in .Xdefaults?
 [22:02:15]  <sharp15> specifically for xmessage, but in general would be of interest.
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[22:42:58]  <joeyadams> Why is a direct rendering module in the kernel necessary?  Can't all that needs to be accessed be accessed through memory mapping and such in user space?
 [22:43:22]  <joeyadams> What can be done in a direct rendering module that can't be done in user space without something in between?
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[22:56:53]  <airlied> joeyadams: security
 [22:57:02]  <cworth> Ah, so the wiki is stale and --enable-builtin-fonts *is* the default already. And it's also broken. OK, at least I know what needs to be fixed now.
 [22:57:44]  <cworth> And I've got a workaround with --disable-builtin-fonts plus a symlink from /opt/xorg/lib/X11/fonts to /usr/share/fonts/X11 .
 [23:00:12]  <joeyadams> With my Radeon 9250, I can write a program in C that runs in userspace that mmaps from /dev/ram the video memory of my card, and writing to that will write to the frame buffer.
 [23:00:52]  <joeyadams> I tried the same experiment on my really old Compaq LTE 5100 laptop, and nothing happened, even when I wrote over all the memory that I could.
 [23:00:58]  <joeyadams> (that is, memory belonging to the card)
 [23:01:16]  <joeyadams> With my Radeon 9250, I can write a program in C that runs in userspace that mmaps from /dev/ram the video memory of my card, and writing to that will write to the frame buffer. => I could tell because stuff was changing in a very systematic way.
 [23:01:38]  <airlied^ depends on the video card in the compaq.
 [23:01:43]  <airlied> it might have done things differentl
 [23:02:11]  <joeyadams> It's a Cirrus Fusion 7543 (the Xorg driver has not supported it since XFree86 4, but cards around it are supported it)
 [23:02:17]  <joeyadams> but I'm running vesa
 [23:02:33]  <joeyadams> Even in a virtual terminal, writing to that memory succeeded, but nothing seemed to happene.
 [23:02:35]  <joeyadams> happen*
 [23:02:48]  <airlied> so it might have some wierd banked setup. not all memory accessible via the pci aperture.
 [23:03:15]  <joeyadams> I'm not familiar with that term.
 [23:03:40]  <joeyadams> but I think I saw that a few times in the driver sources.
 [23:04:15]  <airlied^ the memory you are writing to might not be what is on the screen.
 [23:05:36]  <joeyadams> hmm
 [23:05:52]  <joeyadams> Can ports be accessed through userspace?
 [23:06:20]  <joeyadams> albeit probably through root.
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[23:06:47]  <joeyadams> I guess /dev/port does that?
 [23:06:56]  <airlied^ you can do it direct if you use iopl
 [23:07:03]  <airlied> the X server does it
 [23:07:07]  <joeyadams> oh
 [23:07:18]  <joeyadams> I guess that's a library?
 [23:07:31]  <airlied> iopl is just a C function
 [23:07:35]  <airlied> man iopl
 [23:09:50]  <joeyadams> Okay, thanks
 [23:10:23]  <joeyadams> How do most drivers do modesetting?  Through VESA, or directly with the card?
 [23:10:40]  <joeyadams> (I mean, mainstream drivers, not fallback stuff like vesa)
 [23:11:33]  <airlied^ direct to the card
 [23:12:08]  <joeyadams> Okay
 [23:13:43]  <airlied^ oh also interrupts are hard in userspace
 [23:14:42]  <joeyadams> What's with the dot clocks, HorzSync, etc. stuff?  Why does the system need to know about those?
 [23:15:06]  <airlied> thats how you specify what mode to set
 [23:15:19]  <joeyadams> Okay, thanks
 [23:15:33]  <joeyadams> and once that's set, does it need to be referenced again for day-to-day operations?
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[23:15:39]  <joeyadams> Once the mode is set, that is.
 [23:15:52]  <airlied^ once set you don't need to usually know that stuff
 [23:15:59]  <joeyadams> okay, that makes sense
 [23:16:25]  <joeyadams> Now how does the system know how fast the hardware is?  When a command is sent to render something, what keeps the computer from outpacing it?
 [23:16:31]  <joeyadams> Does it poll something?
 [23:16:51]  <joeyadams> I've seen stuff about ring buffers.  Does it just check if the ring buffer is full?
 [23:17:24]  <airlied^ generally it inserts a memory write into the ring, and the cpu blocks on it.
 [23:17:29]  <airlied> also it block on the ring buffer filling.
 [23:17:44]  <airlied> normally with modern hw there is a ring buffer and some other "indirect" buffers
 [23:18:01]  <airlied> if you read the r500 3D docs it contains some info on that.
 [23:18:50]  <joeyadams> By block, does that mean it stops executing, or can it be executing other stuff while it's blocked?
 [23:19:30]  <airlied^ it can run other processes etc.
 [23:19:33]  <airlied> like normal CPU.
 [23:19:48]  <airlied> generally you just block a thread on the interrupt from the GPU
 [23:20:03]  <airlied> of course this is simplifying what happens a lot
 [23:22:34]  <joeyadams> Where could I read more about the concept of banked memory?
 [23:23:14]  <airlied^ its an old concept.. not many gpus use it.
 [23:23:21]  <airlied> vga cards did a lot
 [23:24:07]  <joeyadams> I'm dealing with a VGA card :)
 [23:25:18]  <joeyadams> Maybe not.  I know it's faster (meaning tolerable) when it's accelerated
 [23:25:36]  <joeyadams> When it's not accelerated, the only text editor I can use comfortably is nedit
 [23:26:44]  <joeyadams> Perhaps I'll get and read the Cirrus driver source
 [23:33:26]  <airlied^ well vga cards use memory aat 0xa000
 [23:33:41]  <airlied> for the screen, so hitting things in pci space with /dev/mem may not always git something
 [23:34:06]  <airlied> banking basically swaps different pices of video RAM into the 64k space at 0xa000
 [23:34:42]  <airlied> but reading a driver source would help the most
 [23:34:45]  <joeyadams> so if I wrote at 0xa000, would I get something?  Would a full driver need to be able to control what gets swapped?
 [23:36:24]  <airlied^ you might get something around 0xa000..
[23:36:33]  <airlied> what is your end goal btw?
 [23:37:34]  <joeyadams> To figure out how the card works from the bottom up.
 [23:37:48]  <joeyadams> and to get a feel of how to reverse engineer video cards.
 [23:37:56]  <airlied^ any card or just the cirrus?
 [23:37:58]  <joeyadams> and to learn concepts like these :)
 [23:39:00]  <joeyadams> Well, I'd kinda like to get Cirrus 7543 supported some time, but that's not my main goal.  My main goal is to learn more about video cards in general, and the Cirrus and Radeon in particular (mostly the Radeon)
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[23:39:42]  <cworth> Oh! The X server starts with no font just fine... it's when restarting after the last client exits that it fails with the error that it cannot find the default font 'fixed'. So that should be an easy bug to fix I think.
 [23:40:14]  <airlied> joeyadams: http://www.botchco.com/agd5f/?paged=2
 [23:40:28]  <airlied> has some stuff in the older articles on radeons
 [23:41:08]  <joeyadams> Oh, thanks!
 [23:41:30]  <joeyadams> I saw a page on radeon architecture, but it ended after briefly explaining the memory ranges and the CP ring buffer.
 [23:41:39]  <airlied> oh that is probably it :)
 [23:42:02]  <airlied> so the CP ring buffer is how the CPU and GPU throttling happens
 [23:42:14]  <airlied> also the R500 3D accel doc has some info on the GPU architecture
 [23:43:29]  <airlied> but really the two main areas of GPU work are modesetting and acceleration.
 [23:43:42]  <joeyadams> Yeah, I'll read up on those after I figure out how writing to 15 bits/pixel video space works.
 [23:43:57]  <joeyadams> I figured out the are,g,b,unused for 24-bit
 [23:44:03]  <joeyadams> I mean b,g,r,unused
 [23:44:38]  <joeyadams> and every line is 5632 bytes in 24-bit mode, regardless of resolution
 [23:45:02]  <joeyadams> But who knows, maybe other modes that I wasn't in charge of setting work differently.
 [23:45:11]  <joeyadams> In 8-bit mode, I don't know where the colormap is in memory
 [23:45:35]  <airlied^ cards can scanout a wide range of memory formats
 [23:45:57]  <airlied> they can also have tiled memory which changes thing
 [23:45:58]  <joeyadams> You mean color formats?  Otherwise, I don't know what you meant.
 [23:46:15]  <airlied^ well color and tiled formats.
 [23:48:02]  <airlied> also there are some Intel 965 docs available that give a good bit of info, but they can be a bit technicaly
 [23:48:17]  <cworth> anholt: Hmmm... "x11perf -aa10text" gives me 142000 on my desktop before any patches from me===that's with master branches of everything.
 [23:49:34]  <cworth> joeyadams: Using modern graphics hardware rarely consists of writing individual pixel color channel values out to memory.
 [23:49:58]  <joeyadams> Unless it's a frame buffer driver like VESA or so :)
 [23:50:30]  <joeyadams> I wonder if it would be a good idea to write a driver for Xorg that's designed to be a fallback driver, but it knows about various video cards and can support high resolutions.
 [23:50:45]  <joeyadams> e.g. it would just do the modesetting, then write to the frame buffer.
 [23:50:59]  <joeyadams> or is that what fbdev is for?
 [23:51:53]  <airlied^ thats what vesa is for
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[23:52:01]  <airlied> and fbdev is the kernel has an fbdev
 [23:52:12]  <airlied> joeyadams: however how would such a fallback driver set the modes?
 [23:52:14]  <joeyadams> vesa only supports up to 800x600, if I'm not mistaken
 [23:52:22]  <airlied^ nope it support all resolutions that the BIOS lets it
 [23:52:37]  <joeyadams> Oh, didn't know that.
 [23:52:43]  <joeyadams> I guess VESA 3 can do higher modes?
 [23:52:51]  <airlied^ vesa 2 can as well I think
 [23:53:19]  <joeyadams> The thing I was talking about would have to know about individual cards, but the code for each card would not be a whole lot.
 [23:53:47]  <airlied^ modesetting can be quite a lot of code
 [23:54:25]  <joeyadams> hmm
 [23:54:46]  <joeyadams> Hopefully not 10% of a full driver :)  But hey, what do I know
 [23:55:08]  <airlied^ the radeon DDX has about 10k loc for modesetting
 [23:56:22]  <joeyadams> gee wiz!
 [23:56:37]  <joeyadams> I don't understand why it would take so much
 [23:57:18]  <joeyadams> Wouldn't it just be:  Process the input, send translated input to the driver, send command to driver to change mode?
 [23:57:32]  <airlied^ to what driver to change mode?
 [23:57:52]  <joeyadams> I don't know what you mean.
 [23:58:14]  <cworth^ You were describing the functioning of code in a driver.
 [23:58:28]  <cworth> So what could "send command to driver" mean in that context?
 [23:58:36]  <cworth> "send command to card" perhaps?
 ----- [2008-07-12] -----
 [00:01:34]  <cworth> joeyadams: But yes, modesetting can be surprisingly more complicated than one might na?vely expect it to be.
[00:01:46]  <joeyadams> I mean send command to card, sorry
 [00:02:49]  <airlied^ you have to program quite a lot of registers to set a mode
 [00:02:50]  <joeyadams> If there was a minimalistic implementation that didn't do the extras like supporting custom HorzSync and stuff (just setting to one mode), would it still be complicated?
 [00:02:58]  <joeyadams> hmm
 [00:02:58]  <airlied^ yes..
 [00:03:09]  <airlied> the card doesn't know what a simple mode is..
 [00:03:18]  <airlied> it just has a lot of register and clocks you need to setup.
 [00:03:33]  <joeyadams> Do differing monitors make things hard to implement, too?
 [00:03:40]  <joeyadams> e.g. a CRT versus an LCD.
 [00:03:50]  <airlied^ even differrent CRTS can require different modes
 [00:04:13]  <joeyadams> Otherwise, stuff gets shifted oddly, and the user has to adjust it?
 [00:04:22]  <joeyadams> (with their monitor control panel)
 [00:04:24]  <airlied^ or nothing appears.. or it looks crappy.
 [00:05:31]  <joeyadams> or nothing appears => Cards should be designed so something always appears unless the screen is supposed to be blanked :P  Too bad that's not  the case.
 [00:05:40]  <cworth^ There's definitely not any driver-author-conspiracy making things more complicated than they need to be. :-)
 [00:05:47]  <airlied+ cards aren't smart, they require drivers..
 [00:06:13]  <cworth+ Software authors always wish the hardware were smarter.
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[00:06:32]  <cworth> joeyadams: And hardware designers always plan on the software being smarter. ;-)
 [00:06:57]  <joeyadams> heh
 [00:06:59]  <airlied> also it takes more silicon to be smart, when they want that for 3D engine..
 [00:07:18]  <joeyadams> What is a scratch register, by the way?
 [00:07:49]  <airlied^ just a register the sw can use that he hw won't write to usuaully
 [00:08:03]  <airlied> unless the sw tells it to write to it.
 [00:08:11]  <joeyadams> Why can't the software just use its own memory?
 [00:08:24]  <airlied^ it may need the hw to write a value to it so it knows something  happened.
 [00:08:32]  <airlied> or the BIOS and driver might need to communicate something
 [00:08:42]  <joeyadams> oh
 [00:09:00]  <airlied> radeon has BIOS scratch regs and GUI scratch regs...
 [00:09:13]  <cworth> anholt: My patches do improve that to 208000, so still worth doing, just not as impressive.
 [00:09:43]  * cworth wonders what's different here----just non-GEM I guess?
 [00:10:32]  <joeyadams> What's crtc?
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[00:12:44]  <joeyadams> Also, I read about "programming registers".  Does this just mean reading and writing to them?
 [00:12:59]  <cworth^ CRT controller
 [00:13:10]  <cworth> quite likely
 [00:13:12]  <airlied+ yeah programming = reading/writing in some order.
 [00:13:54]  <joeyadams> CRT controller => Even though CRT stands for Cathode Ray Tube, are LCD screens involved in crtc stuff?
 [00:14:02]  <airlied^ CRTC is a legacy term
 [00:14:12]  <airlied> so it now means crtc :)
 [00:14:13]  * cworth avoided sending joeyadams after the #1-google-hit: "Canadian Radio-Television & Telecommunications Commission". It could almost sound plausibly relevant for a moment... ;-)
 [00:14:47]  <airlied> joeyadams: but it basically takes the data from VRAM, and generates a digital set of signals from it to feed into encoders
 [00:14:54]  <cworth+ Some names get wired into everyone's brains so much we don't ever change them.
 [00:15:18]  <airlied> the output is generates depends on the mode timings.
 [00:15:27]  <cworth> joeyadams: Think if you've ever talked about a computer display as a "screen" even though it's made of glass and not a mesh to be projected onto. :-)
 [00:15:57]  <airlied> the encoders then turn the digital data into something to send to the monitors..
 [00:17:14]  <joeyadams> I guess the CRT controller is part of the monitor's hardware?
 [00:17:39]  <cworth^ no, part of the video card
 [00:18:27]  <joeyadams> oh
 [00:18:28]  <cworth^ A card with multiple CRTCs will be able to drive multiple monitors simultaneously, for example.
 [00:19:52]  <cworth> We don't need to think about anything that happens to the signals inside the monitor, (well, at least not at the driver level---higher-level software does think about the characteristics of sub-pixels for sub-pixel rendering and filtering, for example).
 [00:21:56]  <airlied> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/HowVideoCardsWork
 [00:22:03]  <airlied> joeyadams: that has some info in it
 [00:22:32]  <joeyadams> Thanks
 [00:24:50]  <joeyadams> I'm reading about GART memory, and I have a PCI (not express) card.  Is the concept basically the same?
 [00:25:06]  * cworth should have added "independently" above as a card with a single CRTC might still have multiple outputs, (as explained on that page)
 [00:25:24]  <airlied> joeyadams: some PCI cards have on-board GARTs.
 [00:25:30]  <airlied> not all of them.
 [00:26:14]  <joeyadams> I guess that's a memory management unit for the card, analogous to the computer's MMU?
 [00:26:40]  <airlied^ so the GPU can access main memory like any other PCI card using DMA.
 [00:27:14]  <airlied> but generally the GPU needs to access more than one page of main memory and it likes to have a linear view of that memory.
 [00:27:40]  <airlied> so a PCI GART allows the driver to allocate memory non-linearly and have it appear linear to the GPU
 [00:28:03]  <airlied> AGP did this with the CPU chipset, PCI either didn't do it or did with some hardware on the GPU
 [00:28:16]  <joeyadams> Does DMA mean memory is accessed directly, or is that an acceleration feature that means copying blocks of data won't stall the CPU (or in this case, the GPU)?
 [00:29:00]  <airlied^ the GPU access main memory directly with DMA, so the CPU doesn't have to do any work
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[00:32:01]  <joeyadams> This is a general hardware question, but I'm kind of confused about it.  Why does DMA improve the performance of dd if=/dev/zero of=file.img bs=blah count=blah ?
 [00:32:13]  <joeyadams> Without it, it consumes CPU
 [00:32:18]  <joeyadams> With it, it is very light on the CPU
 [00:32:25]  <joeyadams> Doesn't the CPU have to generate the zeros?
 [00:32:48]  <airlied^ thats IDE DMA.
 [00:33:06]  <airlied> the hard disk controller also uses DMA to speed up access.
 [00:33:10]  <airlied> bbl
 [00:34:49]  <joeyadams> Thanks for the help.  Now I have reading material with which I can get familiar with things.
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[01:38:19]  <joeyadams> Hmm, I wonder if it's theoretically possible to write a driver that can use two video cards cooperatively (e.g. two Radeon cards rendering the same scene).  I suppose the GART(s) would be laid out so that both cards would point to each other's memory.
 [01:39:24]  <joeyadams> I guess the problem would be the overhead of transferring large image data across the cards.
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[02:04:52]  <airlied> joeyadams: SLI and cross-fire already do that sort of things but not simple like that.
 [02:05:31]  <airlied> doing it using GARTs would be very slow.
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[02:10:03]  <joeyadams> okay, thanks
 [02:12:45]  <joeyadams> I started looking at the r5xx acceleration doc, but the confusing thing is that there were many structural changes from the r200 to the r500, and I won't know if the information I read about the r500 is relevant to the r200.
 [02:13:45]  <airlied> lots of things are similiar, for example all the ring buffer stuff is the same
[02:14:24]  <joeyadams> I'm reading that they plan to release the r200 like they released the r300
 [02:15:22]  <airlied> chapters 2-5 are close enough for r200.. the rest not so much
 [02:15:34]  <airlied> hopefully they release the old r100/r200 NDA docs
 [02:15:49]  <airlied> the r200 doc was quite good..
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[02:16:51]  <joeyadams> I'm trying to find the main AMD page where they host that stuff.
 [02:18:02]  <airlied> http://developer.amd.com/documentation/guides/Pages/default.aspx#open_gpu
 [02:18:14]  <airlied> is the current page, I assume new stuff will also land there.
 [02:18:39]  <joeyadams> Thanks
 [02:19:46]  <joeyadams> Good night
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[11:24:43]  <cworth> anholt: OK, mroe vertex buffers pushed to xf86-video-intel, (with a granularity of 256).
 [11:24:54]  <cworth> And, argh! I still broke a commiter email. :-P
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[11:28:04]  <cworth> Though, I don't even want to admit how I messed that one up. :-P
 [11:31:40]  <xnguard> I can't build against git libxcb.
 [11:31:42]  <xnguard> libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libxcb-xlib.la' or unhandled argument `/usr/lib/libxcb-xlib.la'
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[12:38:31]  <okias> Hello, I'm sorry for bothering, but have any one from devs here old pci MGA card? Can someone with this card try solve this half year old bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14132 Thanks :-)
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[04:26:58]  <doomster> greetings!
 [04:29:08]  <doomster> I'm looking at xcb_create_window and I'd like to know how the last two parameters ( uint32_t value_mask, const uint32_t *value_list) work.
 [04:29:56]  <doomster> Am I right when I assume that the number of set bits in the mask must correspond to the size of the array and that the array contains the values in order of the corresponding bits?
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[14:22:26]  <cetiXX> I need to capture some text which is drawn by the xserver. how can I check, if any application executes XDrawString?
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[14:26:15]  <cetiXX> or is there any other possibility to capture text from the screen?
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[16:45:02]  <vignatti> whot: hey peter. Seems that Simon's patch doesn't have license in the code..
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[17:15:20]  <chuckr> with input drivers as context, what's a pointer feedback device (1st of 3 questions)
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[17:20:20]  <chuckr> nobody can answer this? Is there another channel for stuff like this? I'm trying to identify what 3 device types, the names, actually refer to. I found out that "valuators" are like mouse axes.
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[17:23:26]  <chuckr> c'mon, something like "pointer feedback" event?  ever heard of this?
 [17:25:14]  <jcristau^ asking 3 times the same question (4 if you could the list post) in 5 minutes won't help you get an answer
 [17:31:53]  <chuckr> sorry.  I'm getting impatient.  I've been researchig this Xinput driver I'm working on for months now, and I'm nearly ready to begin coding, so maybe you could understand me being a bit anxious?
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[18:21:07]  <dberkholz> ah, nice. just discovered `git pull --rebase`
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[18:33:08]  <vignatti> dberkholz: yeah it's nice.
 [18:33:16]  <vignatti> i think it's the same as git fetch origin && git rebase origin
 [18:33:40]  <dberkholz> yep
 [18:33:42]  <dberkholz> with less typing
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[19:06:05]  <whot> vignatti: whoopsi. I'll get it fixed. thanks
 [19:11:42]  <whot> chuckr: consider feedback as a method to feed data back into a input device
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[21:54:38]  <whot> server-1.5 relies on pciaccess but the .pc file doesn't state the requires. can anyone confirm that?
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[22:12:24]  <chuckr> I finally checked back into the channel, I had waited an  hour at first and then gave up ... you still there?
 [22:12:42]  <chuckr> I was talking to whot
 [22:14:57]  <whot^ yep
 [22:15:58]  <whot> answering times of 12h and more are common
 [22:18:30]  <chuckr> Yeah, but I can't wait that long, so if you take that long, I can't be immediately responding
 [22:19:27]  <chuckr> what I'm after here is the meaning of 3 different kinds of events.  One is a pointer-feedback type, could you give me any sort of real-life example of why you'd want such a thing?
 [22:20:11]  <whot^ I'm on ACST and usually online from 8.30 - 18.30. so just ask when I'm online :)
 [22:21:19]  <whot> feedback classes are to get stuff back to the device. keyboards use it for LEDs, joysticks can use it for force feedback
 [22:21:25]  <chuckr> can you answer my question now?  And also, I don't know what ACST is ...
 [22:21:44]  <whot^ australian central standard time
 [22:22:22]  <chuckr> if not, just let me know, honesty is far better than being bullshitted, you know?
 [22:22:53]  <chuckr> (not trying to insult you any)
 [22:23:06]  <whot^ i just did. look 5 lines above
 [22:23:30]  <chuckr> Ohhh ... wouldn't have guessed that in a million years, never been further west than Hawaii for 7 months
 [22:25:23]  <chuckr> ohhh, I see.  I *think* I can ignore that one.  Next, focus, is that what I usually think of as focus, I mean, I'd get an event when I'm the main focus?
 [22:26:17]  <whot^ what device are you working on?
 [22:27:06]  <whot> focus is keyboard focus. the window that has the kbd focus gets keyboard events. note this is not the same as window focus. mouse events are delivered to the win underneath the cursor
 [22:27:19]  <chuckr> well, I'm doing all of devices (all tablets) made by UC Logic
 [22:27:22]  <whot^ for input drivers, you don't care about focus, it's done by the server
 [22:27:37]  <whot> then you don't need to care about focus, and probably not about feedback
 [22:27:40]  <chuckr> then why is there a focus event?
 [22:27:55]  <chuckr> oh, you mean the server generates those events?
 [22:28:00]  <whot^ yes
 [22:28:11]  <chuckr> ok, last one:  proximity
 [22:28:48]  <whot^ if your tablet can do it, you should send them.
 [22:28:56]  <whot> xf86PostProximityEvent()
 [22:29:29]  <chuckr> I see how to do it, what I don't see is why to do it, what does gettimg a proximity event denote?
 [22:30:11]  <chuckr> Also, I don't follow your comment, if your tablet can do  it: do what?
 [22:30:28]  <whot^ if your tablet can do proximity in hardware.
 [22:30:31]  <chuckr> I get confused, often, by too many pronounds
 [22:30:34]  <chuckr> I get confused, often, by too many pronouns
 [22:31:36]  <whot^ wacoms can detect when the stylus is above the tablet but not touching it - this is referred to as a proximity event. if your hardware can detect proximity, you should send prox. events
 [22:31:42]  <chuckr> It probably sounds like I'm being purposely stupid, I'm really not, but I don't understand, why would I want my tablet to do any sort of proxmity, proximity to what?
 [22:32:49]  <chuckr> proximity to some widget I define?
 [22:33:50]  <whot^ no. the tablets have no notion of widgets. proximity to the tablet. you can send events that tell the client that the stylus is hovering 2 cm above the tablet surface
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[22:36:46]  <chuckr> OHH, I get it, thanksQ
 [22:37:00]  <chuckr> I was thinking completely differently
 [22:38:39]  <chuckr> ok, got it.  My single remaining question isn't really one you could probably answer.  I';ve been waiting  on the linuxwacom folks to answer, but their email list is VERY inactive, I don't know how long I'll wait.  I need to know the form that gtk events take, so I can prod GTK into receiving them from the input driver I'm writing.
 [22:39:17]  <chuckr> That's my real goal, to get gimp to use my tablet
 [22:39:26]  <chuckr> on FreeBSD, that is
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[22:39:46]  <chuckr> that's one reason that the linuxwacom stuff is so completely out of the question for me
 [22:39:50]  <whot^ GTK XInput with current xserver master is broken
 [22:39:59]  <whot> on account of GTK trying to be smart
 [22:40:11]  <whot> quit unsuccessfully, I may say
 [22:40:24]  <chuckr> you have succeeded in totally confusing me
 [22:40:44]  <chuckr> you're saying I need to give it up and wait until they fix things?
 [22:40:58]  <chuckr> that would be hugely disappointing
 [22:41:21]  <chuckr> I don't think that
 [22:41:51]  <chuckr> is totally whjat I'm after.  What I'm writing is an Xinput driver, so why do I care about the GTK Xinput?
 [22:42:05]  <whot^ you can write an input driver that builds against all servers up to and including 1.5. but since the mpx merge, gtk xinput is broken
 [22:42:25]  <whot> gimp uses gtk xinput, so if you want to use your tablets in gimp, then you rely on gtk
 [22:43:01]  <chuckr> I'm still just a tad confused.  You mean GTK's interface to my Xinput?
 [22:43:22]  <chuckr> because if it's GTK's own Xinput driver, I won't be using that
 [22:43:44]  <chuckr> why would I want to, I want to send to gtk, not receive from it
 [22:43:54]  <whot^ no, GTK's interface to Xserver's xinput. gtk doesn't interface with the driver.
 [22:44:06]  <whot> your driver sends events to the server, the server sends it to gimp/gtk
 [22:44:16]  <whot> the interpretation of the events is broken
 [22:44:28]  <whot> there's nothing you can (and should) do about that in the driver
 [22:44:30]  <chuckr> yeah ... but is that interface also called an Xinput?
 [22:45:03]  <whot> XInput is the extension. drivers don't use XInput, they use the input driver interface (or whatever you want to call it)
 [22:45:50]  <chuckr> and you say, it's broken. .... I was looing at the linuxwacom source, so I could dope out how to send data to the Xserver in some form that gtk would find useable.
 [22:46:01]  <chuckr> maybe I'm amking some mistake here?
 [22:46:16]  <chuckr> I know the usb part really well, the xf86 far less so
 [22:47:03]  <chuckr> am I supposed to really go looking for an xf86 function to receive my data in any form it wants, and let  the xserver translate it?
 [22:47:32]  <chuckr> I could do thjat with the data I currently have figured out
 [22:47:48]  <chuckr> if that's true., it's really very good news to me
 [22:48:28]  <chuckr> I've spent the last 6 hours trying to dope out linuxwacoms xf86 interface
 [22:48:34]  <whot^ xf86PostXYZEvent is all you ever need to send events. you don't care about X Input, you don't care about what the client does
 [22:48:48]  <whot> look at evdev.c, this is the easiest to understand right now
 [22:49:33]  <chuckr> I have already, all the parts except the actual sending of the event.  OK, I will look that over tomorrow.  Fine, if I missed it here, that's really some fine news.
 [22:49:47]  <chuckr> Can I ask, what's the last version of gtk I could use reliably?
 [22:50:09]  <chuckr> (working with you has been really, really helpful to me)
 [22:50:53]  <whot^ it's the server, not gtk. all released x servers are fine, and server-1.5-branch. not git master
 [22:52:44]  <chuckr> 1.5 of gtk, or 1.5 of Xorg?  I thought Xorg was at 7.4, but I wasn't paying ral attention to the version numbers of the xserver itself.  I'm kinda innocent of that one
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[22:53:03]  <whot> 7.4 is xserver 1.5
 [22:53:07]  <chuckr> (innocent == stupid)
 [22:53:49]  <chuckr> then you didn't mean I should watch out for gtk, I should instead be wary of late-model Xservers?
 [22:54:13]  <whot> yes
 [22:55:54]  <chuckr> then I think I have enough, I really appreciate your time, whot, you reallly, really help me out
 [22:56:12]  <chuckr> goodnight
 [22:56:13]  <whot> no worries.
 [22:56:29]  <whot> your homework is to answer your lists-xorg questions, so I don't have to type it again :)
 [22:58:09]  <chuckr> I was ahead of you, already x-cutting when you said that
 [22:58:25]  <whot> thanks
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[22:59:16]  <chuckr> I'm rather sleepy now, can't stay long, but you really hit the nail on the head for  me.  I think of things differently than most folks, so puttin gup with my brand of questions, well, it's more difficult than it sounds, isn't it?
 [22:59:44]  <chuckr> things that bother the heck out of most folks are crystal clear to  me
 [23:00:08]  <chuckr> but the simplest things totally blow me away
 [23:00:38]  <chuckr> I appreciate you not blowing your cool over that.
 [23:01:34]  <chuckr> well, Like I said, goodnight, and let me know if I can ever help you, my true calling is telephony, at which I know a bit more than most.
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[03:15:30]  <jXP3> How to know when user closed my window?
 [03:16:35]  <jXP3> Now then I close it, my program aborts with fatal IO error
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[03:20:03]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:22:42]  <whot> jXP3: you should let the WM know that you support the appropriate ICCCM protocols
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[06:26:23]  <Kelvin> Does anyone know if there is a driver available for the TVia CyberPro 5xxx series of multimedia/graphics boards?
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[07:39:44]  <johnflux> I have a file that when I try to check it in to rcs, rcs complains that the file is binary
 [07:39:57]  <johnflux> although it seems like a text file
 [07:40:08]  <johnflux> can anyway think of a way to find any non-text characters
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[08:06:11]  <papillon81> hi. can anybody tell me about the status of the planned freedesktop synaptics repo?
 [08:06:46]  <airlied^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-synaptics
 [08:06:49]  <airlied> that one?
 [08:07:44]  <papillon81> arekm: hey, cool :-)
 [08:07:54]  <papillon81> airlied: ^^
 [08:07:57]  <papillon81> sorry
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[08:10:12]  <arekm> but I agree ;P
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[08:26:16]  <papillon81> arekm: it's a dream come true. finally :)  I'll create a new ebuild for it
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[09:00:09]  <papillon81> dberkholz: ping
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[10:06:25]  <papillon81> when trying to load the new synaptics driver I get this in the logs: dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input//synaptics_drv.so: undefined symbol: event_proto_operations
 [10:12:23]  <papillon81> i am running xorg git
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[10:13:17]  <jcristau> papillon81: sounds like a bug in the driver, event_proto_operations should be in synaptics itself
 [10:20:40]  <papillon81^ hmm, well. somebody with programming skills should take a look at this
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[10:22:35]  <papillon81> what's the nick of Christoph Brill? are you around?
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[10:24:30]  <jcristau> all of eventcomm.c is under #ifdef __LINUX
 [10:24:49]  <jcristau> but that never gets defined i think
 [10:25:12]  <mjg59> The synaptics build system is utterly broken
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[10:25:55]  <papillon81> mjg59: huh?
 [10:27:00]  <Company> any freedesktop admins here that can tell me why cgit doesn't list swfdec?
 [10:27:14]  <mjg59> papillon81: It calls /bin/arch without checking if it exists and then fucks up the arch defines
 [10:28:05]  <ajax> fixed in badtouch
 [10:28:50]  <jcristau> mjg59: looks like cbrill tried to make it use automake, but failed.
 [10:29:19]  <mjg59> The "Burn it to the ground and start from scratch" option is highly tempting, and I'm glad someone did
 [10:29:37]  <ajax> up, enter.
 [10:29:48]  <mjg59^ Someone wrote a from-scratch BSD one
 [10:29:57]  <ajax> oh did they?  shiny.
 [10:30:04]  <mjg59> Let me find the link
 [10:31:01]  <mjg59>         http://math.berkeley.edu/~vojta/xf86-input-synaptics-0.99.3.tar.bz2                                                                                                                            
[10:32:25]  <papillon81^ did you try this one?
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[10:32:49]  <mjg59> papillon81: No
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[10:34:49]  <papillon81> i'm very glad however that the old driver is finally being worked on again
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[11:58:20]  <theglass_> hello
 [11:58:25]  <theglass_> everyone
 [11:58:36]  <Lrrr> lo
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[11:59:16]  <theglass_> is there any way to avoid Xorg to switch to the last vt at startup?
 [12:00:42]  <theglass_> I tried -keeptty, but it doesn't seem to work
 [12:00:55]  <ajax> just tell it to switch to the vt you're running it from.
 [12:01:12]  <ajax> eg, 'Xorg vt1 :0' from tty1
 [12:01:31]  <theglass_> ah
 [12:01:35]  <theglass_> interesting
 [12:01:38]  <theglass_> thank you
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[12:34:45]  <dberkholz> papillon81: pong
 [12:35:17]  <dberkholz> looks like you got your answer
 [12:37:00]  <papillon81^ yeah
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[12:39:02]  <papillon81> dberkholz: got my mail?
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[12:40:56]  <egore> dberkholz, do you have any plans on adding xf86-input-synaptics to the x11 overlay?
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[12:41:22]  <papillon81> egore: i posted an ebuild to dberkholz already
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[12:42:06]  <egore> papillon81, ah, ok :-)
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[12:48:26]  <JohnFlux2> does kdrive support xtest?
 [12:48:40]  <JohnFlux2> I want to run synergy on kdrive :-)
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[12:52:07]  <dberkholz> papillon81: i got an email but it didn't have anything attached. presumably it needs to get fixed for the issue you encountered above
 [12:53:27]  <papillon81^ ah, damn. sorry. will post it in a minute
 [12:54:57]  <papillon81> i'm currently working on the issue above with cbrill
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[14:33:20]  <jcristau> keithp: hi, any chance you could have a look at bug #16674?
 [14:34:41]  <keithp^ basketball rules
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[14:37:28]  <keithp> jcristau: is output->crtc not getting set in the vesa path somehow?
 [14:37:46]  <keithp> oh, this is with legacy driver support
 [14:37:58]  <keithp> ideally, the driver would be moved to RandR 1.2 APIs
 [14:38:10]  <ajax> yeah, i'll get right on that.
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[14:38:17]  <jcristau> keithp: yes. RRScanOldConfig never calls RRCrtcNotify, which should do that
 [14:38:23]  <keithp^ failing that, we'd have to figure out how to fix the backwards compatibility hacks
 [14:38:33]  <ajax> (not entirely joking, i do want to convert it eventually)
 [14:38:34]  <keithp> jcristau: feel free to try and fix that then
 [14:38:51]  <keithp> ajax: we should have a plan to eliminate the RandR 1.1 APIs...
 [14:39:14]  <ajax> i'd like us to be happy with the 1.2 apis first
 [14:39:27]  <ajax> InitialConfiguration is still bullshit.
 [14:40:10]  <keithp^ yeah, true
 [14:40:17]  * keithp is not happy when his LVDS comes up scaling
 [14:40:46]  <jcristau^ i'm not sure what pScrPriv->rate is supposed to be
 [14:40:50]  <anholt> or when my 1920x1200 panel comes up at 1400x1050
 [14:40:51]  <anholt> worst evar
 [14:41:03]  <ajax> i know jbarnes had some ideas about how he'd rather it act a while ago
 [14:41:37]  <jbarnes> we should just fail to start if there's more than one head plugged in, since whatever we do will be wrong
 [14:41:40]  <jbarnes> </sarcasm>
 [14:42:05]  <jbarnes> personally, I'd much rather default to the same as apple: extended desktop
 [14:42:11]  <jbarnes> the trick is properly choosing the "primary" head
 [14:42:16]  <jbarnes> in the laptop case that should be easy
 [14:42:16]  <ajax> istr team radeonhd also expressing displeasure over the interface, although it was then remarkably difficult to extract what they didn't like or what they'd rather have,
 [14:42:33]  <jbarnes> in other cases it could be whatever is the "better" head, falling back to detection order
 [14:42:35]  <keithp> ajax: suggestions are always welcome
 [14:42:37]  <ajax> jbarnes: rightof is clearly the correct heuristic
 [14:42:44]  <ajax> shame about that memory manager
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[14:42:54]  <keithp> ajax: I think the basic plan is sound though -- set up all of the information, then have some common function dtrt
 [14:43:22]  <anholt> (EE) intel(0): underrun on pipe A!
 [14:43:27]  <anholt> my 865 hates life right now
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[14:45:11]  <jbarnes> anholt: !
 [14:45:45]  <jbarnes> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=17574 might help
 [14:45:45]  <anholt^ black screen of can I pretend this machine doesn't exist and just work on 915+ yet?
 [14:46:35]  <jbarnes^ dsparb ftl... the display session at gfxcon was both enlightening and scary
 [14:47:17]  <anholt> it's being changed from 0x5f at X startup to 0x00000000
 [14:47:49]  <anholt> oh, wow, that's an old checkout.  hang on.
 [14:47:49]  <jbarnes> that would be massive fail
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[14:56:09]  <anholt> jbarnes: ok, same with master
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[14:58:32]  <jbarnes> anholt: hm, wonder if it has a different fifo entry count than the other chips
 [14:59:02]  <anholt> in i830_set_dsparb() readback has the expected value
 [14:59:32]  <jbarnes> but somewhere else hoses it?
 [15:00:33]  <anholt^ yeah.  set_dsparb is happening last amon set, saving regs, and restoring regs.
 [15:00:38]  <anholt> don't know what's going on.  lunch.
 [15:23:20]  <jbarnes> anyone have issues with http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14611?
 [15:26:31]  <ajax> enh
 [15:27:12]  <ajax> i'd be happier if we didn't need an option for "no, really, light something up dammit"
 [15:27:44]  <ajax> since we didn't need one before
 [15:29:13]  <jbarnes^ so what would you rather see?
 [15:29:46]  <ajax> if nothing detected, just light up pipe 0 at 800x600
 [15:30:19]  <ajax> i mean, that's what we had before
 [15:31:12]  <jbarnes> but then we'd always have all pipes enabled?
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[15:31:28]  <ajax> just the first one, no?
 [15:32:58]  <jbarnes> depends on where we put the logic
 [15:33:31]  <ajax> also, who cares?  if you can't detect anything, light 'em all up, hopefully the user will see something.
 [15:33:53]  <ajax> you're well into failure territory here, don't worry about power saving.
 [15:33:56]  <jbarnes> but we want to avoid lighting everything up
 [15:34:23]  <jbarnes> all the time
 [15:35:12]  <ajax> and if you detect >0 monitors, those are the ones you'll light up.
 [15:35:23]  <ajax> if you detect 0, then you turn on everything
 [15:35:27]  <ajax> am i missing something?
 [15:37:02]  <jbarnes> no I think that's what we should do
 [15:38:11]  <jcristau> so either xf86RandRModeRefresh is made of fail, or the mode set by vesa is :)
 [15:38:36]  <ajax^ vesa doesn't really have a good idea what refresh rate it's actually programmed.
 [15:39:07]  <jcristau^ then xf86RandRModeRefresh shouldn't return -2147483648
 [15:39:24]  <ajax> ooh, that's a shiny number.
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[15:40:34]  <ajax> looks suspiciously like (1 << 31) treated as signed int
 [15:40:38]  <jcristau> right
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[15:40:44]  <jcristau>         return (int) (mode->Clock * 1000.0 / mode->HTotal / mode->VTotal + 0.5);
 [15:41:03]  <jcristau> where mode->Clock == mode->HTotal == mode->VTotal == 0
 [15:41:22]  <ajax> hah.  well, htotal and vtotal should be real, but clock could easily be a lie.
 [15:42:12]  <ajax> clock==0 is a legal case though.  virtual framebuffers don't have a refresh rate.  (thanks xen.)
 [15:43:23]  <jcristau> so how would i go about fixing that?
 [15:43:30]  <ajax> and in that case the +0.5 at the end is crap since you'd round up to 1Hz, which is a lie.
 [15:43:45]  <ajax> i'd check for clock == 0 and just return 0
 [15:43:52]  <jcristau> ok, thanks
 [15:44:41]  <ajax> still weird though.  i was pretty sure i was still setting up ->Clock right for vesa.
 [15:49:37]  <jcristau> want to take a look at the log?
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[15:49:47]  <ajax> sure
 [15:50:58]  <jcristau> people.freedesktop.org/~jcristau/Xorg.1.log
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[15:54:07]  <ajax> oh, dude.  vesa 1.3.0?
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[15:54:26]  <jcristau> hmm
 [15:54:47]  <ajax> argh!
 [15:55:09]  <ajax> stupid driver using hardcoded version macros instead of looking at package version
 [15:55:10]  <jcristau> dpkg says 2.0.0 :)
 [15:55:24]  <ajax> angertron 4000
 [15:57:07]  <ssieb2> hmm, I timed out, so I'm not sure if my message went through
 [15:57:12]  <ssieb2> ajax: (int) doesn't round...
 [15:57:38]  <ajax> oh. sure.
 [15:57:53]  <ajax> this log still makes my head hurt though
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[16:02:32]  <jcristau> sorry about that. i'll need to offer you a beer sometime
 [16:03:20]  <ajax> yeah, i'm stumped for the moment.
 [16:05:10]  <anholt> jbarnes: ok, so DSPARB setting on 845/865 is wrong currently.
 [16:05:29]  <anholt> what did you use to come up with how you fill in aend/bend on other chips, though?
 [16:05:33]  <ajax> the modes we get back from VBEGetModePool should all be pre-inited with 0 for the pixel clock
 [16:05:43]  <anholt> I'm just stuffing 64 into aend and winning, but random numbers don't make me comfortable.
 [16:05:47]  <ajax> which is a slight lie but it's legal
 [16:06:42]  <jbarnes> anholt: see https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=17574
 [16:06:59]  <jbarnes> that patch splits it based on mode, but it could probably be done based on pixclk instead
 [16:07:46]  <jbarnes> and now that I look at it again, I think the last if block could be removed in favor of just one outreg
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[16:08:04]  <jbarnes> since I htink DSPARB_BEND_SHIFT == DSPARB_CSTART_SHIFT (I'd have to double check though)
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[16:18:22]  <anholt> jbarnes: ok, and fifo size -- does that just come from the register field size?
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[16:20:00]  <anholt> and why only half of the field size?
 [16:20:49]  <jbarnes> on 855 it corresponds to field size
 [16:20:54]  <jbarnes> but on 9xx it appears that the field is larger
 [16:21:06]  <jbarnes> there are only 96 entries but the fields have room to handle up to 128
 [16:22:02]  <anholt> ok, but on 830/855 the fields are in 8:0 and 18:9, but we're putting in 256(ish)
 [16:24:18]  <jbarnes> so nothing for pipe b?
 [16:25:57]  <anholt> I'm just questioning fifo_entries in the patch -- you're splitting a 256 into two pipes, for a field that can take up to 511
 [16:26:55]  <anholt> also concerned that on 965, you'll write 128 into one of the fields, when the fields are only 7 bits wide
 [16:27:27]  <jbarnes^ yeah but supposedly there are only 256 fifo entries to allocate, not the full field width
 [16:27:39]  <anholt^ that was about 8xx?
 [16:27:43]  <anholt> ok
 [16:27:51]  <jbarnes> on 965 that would be fail... should handle that case
 [16:28:20]  <anholt> so for 845/865, I should probably just try assuming that I have full field width (127) fifo entries, to match field width.
 [16:28:41]  <jbarnes> worth a try
 [16:28:54]  <jbarnes> but it might be 96 entries like 9xx
 [16:30:40]  <jbarnes> anholt: oh the released docs have some more info I didn't see
 [16:31:10]  <jbarnes> devbw has 96 entries also, but 965GM+ have 128
 [16:31:26]  <jbarnes> but of course the valid range is like you said, limited by the field size, so it should be 95 or 127
 [16:32:33]  <airlied> ajax: I fixed initial config to be better.. you should pull into 1.5
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[16:33:06]  <ajax> yeah, i should.
 [16:33:22]  <ajax> still wishing for a mesa though.
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[16:37:08]  <jcristau> ajax: so, making xf86RandrModeRefresh return 0 if mode->Clock == 0 seems to have fixed the problem as far as i can tell
 [16:37:22]  <ajax> \o/
 [16:38:58]  <anholt> jbarnes: ok, cool.  it's 96 entries -- bios programs 95, and if I program 127 the cursor renders as garbage.
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[16:40:55]  <jbarnes> anholt: neat
 [16:40:56]  <anholt> ooh, and the 830 has 288 entries.
 [16:41:05]  <jbarnes> sweet
 [16:41:17]  <jbarnes> I wonder if there are some "hidden" entries used for the cursor plane
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[18:11:16]  <anholt> jbarnes: so, cworth's eee, we can't get 1920x1200 to work without underruns (and displaying wrong) even if we give it the full allocation
 [18:12:05]  <jbarnes> what if you disable fbc?
 [18:12:17]  <jbarnes> we may need to poke at the watermark regs also
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[18:13:04]  <anholt> I thought we disabled fbc with multi-pipe config?
 [18:13:35]  <anholt> guess not
 [18:13:36]  <cworth> (**) intel(0): Framebuffer compression enabled
 [18:16:05]  <jbarnes> that might be old
 [18:17:38]  <jbarnes> iirc it should be disabled in master
 [18:21:36]  <cworth^ I think I'm current, (8ac00ca97995e36514ff593fec3c0f0d316ed138).
 [18:23:23]  * cworth doesn't trust the "(**)" above---I had no such option in my config file before.
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[18:25:09]  <jbarnes> oh nm, I disable SSC in multi-output configs, not fbc
 [18:25:16]  <jbarnes> anyway if you disable fbc does it work better? :)
 [18:28:48]  <jbarnes> anholt, cworth: it's probably the FW_BLC value for the 1920x1200 plane though
 [18:29:04]  <jbarnes> if you lower your plane's watermark it might work better
 [18:29:13]  <anholt^ he disabled fbc, and now he can't figure out how to get the vga back on, ever.
 [18:29:18]  <cworth> The FrameBufferCompression option doesn't seem to help, no.
 [18:29:23]  <anholt> moon phase has changed slightly I think.
 [18:29:32]  <cworth> Yeah, things are weird now.
 [18:29:41]  <jbarnes> err raise the watermark
 [18:29:56]  <cworth^ I can't even get 640x480 anymore...
 [18:29:59]  <jbarnes> oh fail
 [18:31:57]  <cworth^ Yeah, it's weird. This was working fine before I started fiddling, (worked up to 10x7 or so).
 [18:32:29]  <cworth> Oh, ugh. Could I have forgotten to recompile after "git reset --hard" ?
 [18:32:35]  <jbarnes> once you get an underrun, sometimes you need to reboot the machine to resync things
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[18:32:48]  <jbarnes> or otherwise reset the chip somehow
 [18:32:52]  <cworth> Looks like it. :-P
 [18:33:05]  <cworth> Yeah, I've been using keithp's resetgfx hammer.
 [18:33:47]  <cworth> OK, so that was me being stupid. Now I should be able to do a real test with FBC off.
 [18:33:49]  <wereHamster> What are the defaults of RRSelectInput()? I see that compiz listens for RR events, but never calls RRSelectInput().
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[18:34:58]  <cworth> jbarnes: OK, FBC off seems to not change the behavior at all.
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[18:35:15]  <jbarnes> ok, hopefully watermark adjustment will fix things
 [18:36:08]  <cworth> The underruns (and monitor failing to sync) start as soon as 1280x1024 for what it's worth.
 [18:36:46]  <Mercury> There, I can't type today, but.
 [18:36:57]  <cworth> jbarnes: FWATER_BLC?
 [18:37:02]  <jbarnes> yeah
 [18:37:18]  <Mercury> Now if I could only figure out why the DVI connector on my laptop's docking station is not seen by the video drivers.
 [18:37:42]  <jbarnes> cworth: just look at the "high priority bandwidth spreadsheet" for the right value :p
 [18:38:18]  * cworth looks around for that...
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[18:43:03]  <jbarnes> cworth: I think just setting the watermark values for each plane to something high will also work
 [18:43:24]  <jbarnes> it'll waste power (due to added memory traffic) but that's ok for this test
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[18:51:28]  <whot> JohnFlux3: xtest is part of the DIX, so it should work with kdrive
 [18:52:28]  <Mercury> Hrm, yeah, the intel video driver is flatly not seeing the DVI port.
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[22:04:17]  <jg> quiet tonight....
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[23:09:40]  <keithp> ajax: bug 16674 patch is solid?
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[03:24:49]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:16:59]  <airlied> keithp: so will I get an L shape if I use 3 DIMMS?
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[06:10:31]  <papillon81> dberkholz: FYI: synaptics is working now with latest git
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[10:20:59]  <Diabolo> hey guys
 [10:21:06]  <Diabolo> somebody can help me with this error
 [10:21:09]  <Diabolo> http://pastebin.com/m12b1e21e
 [10:26:07]  <JohnFlux2^ doesn't look good :-)
 [10:26:18]  <JohnFlux2> but there's no information there to be able help you
 [10:27:12]  <JohnFlux2> google for:   space: "wanted 32" xorg
 [10:27:18]  <JohnFlux2> there seem to be quite a few hits
 [10:27:24]  <JohnFlux2> Diabolo: you might find something there
 [10:27:29]  <Diabolo> k
 [10:27:32]  <Diabolo> tx
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[10:32:37]  <keithp> airlied: we tried that and it didn't work -- we got stacked mode instead
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[10:32:57]  <keithp> airlied: my theory is that you use two different sized dimms
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[11:20:44]  <wereHamster> XRRSelectInput(dpy, DefaultRootWindow(dpy), RROutputPropertyNotifyMask);
 [11:21:03]  <wereHamster> that produces a BadValue error
 [11:21:27]  <wereHamster> But when I change the mask to 'RRScreenChangeNotifyMask | RROutputPropertyNotifyMask' it works
 [11:21:39]  <wereHamster> should I bring up this issue on the mailinglist?
 [11:22:17]  <wereHamster> also, I'm not getting any RRNotify events when I change output properties
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[11:41:06]  * Ori_B reads keithp's blog post and wonders what the heck an "L-shaped" memory configuration is
 [11:43:50]  <glisse^ if i have to guess i would say linear :)
 [11:44:09]  <johnflux+ I prefer memory shaped like Q
 [11:44:29]  <glisse> as Keith lately is obsess by linear vs tiled memory
 [11:45:01]  <johnflux^ which is better? :)
 [11:45:13]  <keithp+ L shaped is where one channel has more memory than the other and the memory is interleaved in the overlapping area
 [11:45:18]  <glisse> for performance pov tiled
 [11:45:29]  <keithp^ interleaved *and* tiled, of course
 [11:45:42]  <johnflux^ which are the two channels?
 [11:45:54]  <johnflux> I mean, are we talking about dimm channels?
 [11:45:57]  <glisse> yup the igp world got this memory bandwidth things :)
 [11:45:57]  <keithp> johnflux: the two 'banks' of dimms
 [11:46:04]  <johnflux> ah okay, we are talking about that
 [11:46:08]  <keithp> glisse: everyone has a memory bandwidth thing
 [11:46:22]  <johnflux+ why would anyone have such a setup?
 [11:46:23]  <keithp> igp just has less bw than discrete
 [11:46:25]  <Ori_B^ wait, they make machines like that?
 [11:46:33]  <glisse> i can't remember figures but vram bandwidth on discret card is somethings like 2 or 3 times faster than current ram
 [11:46:50]  <keithp> Ori_B: I think it happens when you load the two channels with different sized DIMMs
 [11:47:03]  <jbarnes> glisse: vram bw is even higher than that, since it tends to have wider busses too
 [11:47:05]  <glisse> and this happens a lot
 [11:47:05]  <Ori_B> ah, ok.
 [11:47:07]  <keithp^ which makes me less interested in making it fast than making it work
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[11:47:38]  <glisse> keithp: how does the windows side ?
 [11:47:48]  <glisse> they must have found a solution didn't they ?
 [11:48:04]  <keithp^ they don't touch memory except through the GTT
 [11:48:09]  <glisse> oh
 [11:48:20]  <keithp^ so they didn't really care until vista came along
 [11:48:28]  <glisse> i guess they don't touch often the memory
 [11:48:33]  <keithp> under vista, textures can be paged to disk
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[11:48:54]  <keithp> which means that the physical address may change
 [11:49:06]  <glisse^ i would have think that they still can access through gtt and use normal linear backup in ram
 [11:49:10]  <glisse> of course wasting ram
 [11:49:29]  <keithp^ paging means that the GPU view of the memory changes when the physical address changes
 [11:49:37]  <Dr_Jakob^ can we reliably detect a system that does 17bit twiddling?
 [11:49:38]  <keithp> as the disk will read/write in linear mode
 [11:49:58]  <keithp> Dr_Jakob: yes, there's a register that controls the memory access mode
 [11:50:22]  <glisse^ so vista move the texture on its own and tell the driver ?
 [11:50:25]  <keithp> Dr_Jakob: eric has the detection stuff working at this point
 [11:50:30]  <glisse> it's not the driver which moves things
 [11:50:36]  <keithp^ I think so
 [11:50:52]  <glisse> would have been easier if vista gently asked the driver to do so
 [11:51:07]  <Dr_Jakob> keithp: ok
 [11:51:15]  <glisse> but i guess vista is bit brutal boy... :)
 [11:51:50]  <Dr_Jakob> do we get notifications of shem objects that has gone to disk?
 [11:52:18]  <johnflux> /whois Dr_Jakob
 [11:52:22]  <johnflux> doh
 [11:52:29]  <Dr_Jakob> Hehe :-)
 [11:52:32]  <johnflux> just curious who you are :-)
 [11:52:37]  <keithp> Dr_Jakob: they can't if they're in the GTT as they must be pinned to memory
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[11:52:49]  <keithp> Dr_Jakob: so, we can check when mapping them back to the GTT
 [11:53:40]  <Dr_Jakob^ right. so no notifications just a a flag change somewhere along the line.
 [11:54:30]  <Dr_Jakob> JohnFlux: I'm the guy doing most of the i915 gallium work. I also work for TG.
 [11:55:19]  <keithp^ we can fix shmem to tell us what's going on of course
 [11:56:02]  <JohnFlux+ TG?
 [11:56:15]  <Dr_Jakob^ TungstenGraphics
 [11:56:16]  <JohnFlux> first google match is:  Torture Garden - The world's leading Fetish Club
 [11:56:18]  <JohnFlux> ah
 [11:56:28]  <glisse>
[11:56:32]  <Dr_Jakob> what?
 [11:56:45]  <JohnFlux> google for TG  and see yourself
 [11:56:47]  <JohnFlux> :)
 [11:57:01]  <JohnFlux> (at least, gives me that on google.co.uk)
 [11:57:05]  <Dr_Jakob> I will just have to take your word for it :-)
 [11:57:26]  <JohnFlux^ anyway, cool
 [11:57:36]  <JohnFlux> I work at Imagination Technologies fwiw
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[11:57:57]  <JohnFlux> Dr_Jakob: I think we are competitors :-D
 [11:58:30]  <Dr_Jakob^ Ah yeah.
 [12:00:34]  <keithp+ Tungsten does driver software, not hardware.
 [12:00:55]  <Dr_Jakob> so does ImgTec.
 [12:01:28]  <JohnFlux> I think we mostly sell the hardware though
 [12:01:44]  <JohnFlux> ( I don't actually know, so I'm sure I'm not disclosing any secrets hehe)
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[12:02:03]  <JohnFlux> Dr_Jakob: i've only been here a couple of months
 [12:02:24]  <keithp^ Imagination Technologies sells silicon graphics IP blocks for embedded systems
 [12:02:35]  <Dr_Jakob> Indeed
 [12:03:35]  <glisse> keithp: btw i guess you don't know if you are trying to ask Imagination Technologies to release spec for powervr ?
 [12:03:44]  <glisse> you standing for intel :)
 [12:03:53]  <glisse> about poulsbo things i think
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[12:04:43]  <keithp> glisse: I can't talk about things like that
 [12:05:27]  <glisse> i am too used to science where we openly talk about everythings =)
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[12:05:46]  <JohnFlux> glisse: you haven't worked in science that long then :P
 [12:05:59]  <glisse^ i should say university
 [12:06:05]  <JohnFlux> yeah even so
 [12:06:08]  ***  osiris_ is now known as osiris__away.
[12:06:13]  <JohnFlux> most results are hidden for several years
 [12:06:22]  <glisse> well not in my field
 [12:07:28]  <glisse> and not in theoretical part of science where i guess the only way is to publish and give insight on your work if you want to get support
 [12:07:55]  <Dodji> JohnFlux  is maybe talking about research in the drug makers lab
 [12:08:03]  <glisse> but i might be vary naive sometimes
 [12:08:07]  <Dodji> they tend to hide things because ... they don't find that much ? :-)
 [12:08:19]  <Dodji> too busy looking for bluckbusters ...
 [12:08:31]  <glisse^ oh no they find things but they use pour les joies personnelles ;)
 [12:08:37]  <Dodji^ :-)
 [12:09:57]  <Dodji> most of them looking for the same things: which is basically, how to loose weight and not die too quickly cardio-vascular diseases
 [12:10:30]  <Dodji> basically things you can use as cash cows.
 [12:11:16]  <glisse^ while the solution is to eat sane food and avoid McD...
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[12:11:45]  <glisse> also drinking sane & good | very good wine help =)
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[12:13:20]  <Dodji> glisse, :-)
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[12:14:10]  <Dodji> glisse, and there is still no good solution against good old flue ;-)
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[12:14:42]  <glisse> Dodji: flue give you excuse to not go to work and it's not that painfull :)
 [12:14:48]  <Dodji> hehe
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[12:19:21]  <wereHamster> In the past I've been lucky not having to run xserver from git. I've been able to work around all problems by modifying drivers or the clientside apps. But it looks like I'm not that lucky anymore.
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[12:44:50]  <MrCooper> glisse: I think it's more like a 10x factor - high end cards have beyond 100 GB/s 8)
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[12:48:48]  <glisse> MrCooper: totaly plossible long time i haven't look at number :)
 [12:50:40]  <CE> when I draw to an A8 picture using XRenderFillRectangles
 [12:50:45]  <CE> ow are the values of XRenderColor applied to the single A8 value?
 [12:51:12]  <CE> because as soon as I change the alpha-value of the color, the whole composition doesn't do anything
 [12:52:28]  <CE> is a mix of rgb calculated and applied as gray-value, or if simply the alpha-value of the color applied to the affected pixels?
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[13:40:00]  <CE> ok, seems it was my fault
 [13:40:19]  <CE> as in 99.99% of all cases ;)
 [13:40:46]  <dberkholz> idr: yay, my t61 backlight will work properly! thanks!
 [13:41:13]  * sxpert needs an opengl tutorial ;)
 [13:42:31]  <papillon81> dberkholz: synaptics ebuild is working now. git got fixed
 [13:43:35]  <sxpert> who's responsible for touch screens ?
 [13:44:09]  <sxpert> I have the egalax somewhat working but I need to reverse the X axis for starters
 [13:44:28]  <sxpert> where's the tweaks docs ?
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[13:45:30]  <dberkholz> papillon81: ok. i'll stick that ebuild into the x11 overlay for a bit
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[13:46:14]  <dberkholz> jcristau: re your pixman commit, the same thing happens for sse2 etc as well if you'd like to fix those. haven't gotten around to it yet
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[14:33:14]  <jbarnes> mjg59: hey why aren't you in #intel-gfx?
 [14:33:28]  <jbarnes> I guess your opregion thinkpad_acpi fix hasn't made it upstream yet?
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[15:30:17]  <mattst88> glisse, I've heard claims of radeon kernel modesetting going mainline for 2.6.27/28.
 [15:30:22]  <mattst88> any validity in this?
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[15:59:43]  <mjg59> jbarnes: Correct
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[15:59:47]  <mjg59> jbarnes: What network?
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[16:01:26]  <agd5f> mjg59: freenode
 [16:01:42]  <jbarnes+ idr just pushed the drm opregion stuff
 [16:01:49]  <jbarnes> just gotta ping airlied_ to get it upstream
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[16:04:01]  <mjg59> jbarnes: Excellent
 [16:04:16]  <mjg59> I'll get the Thinkpad thing looked into
 [16:04:34]  <jbarnes^ we need to cultivate some lenovo contacts
 [16:10:42]  <mjg59> Yeah
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[16:24:29]  <airlied_> jbarnes: feel free to kick it into an upstream patch :)
 [16:24:49]  <airlied_> mattst88: we haven't got radeon modeseting written yet..
 [16:25:22]  <mattst88> thanks for the info. some guy was claiming the code was written and going mainline for .27 or .28.
 [16:25:32]  <mattst88> I called him on it.
 [16:25:42]  <airlied_> it might make .28, but it more likely will be Fedora first.
 [16:25:52]  <airlied_> I'm writing it as fast as I can.
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[16:28:32]  <jbarnes> airlied_: are you making any other changes to the upstream development process?
 [16:33:06]  <airlied_^ I was thinking of allowing vendors with an interest in  doing their own upstream patches :)
 [16:33:30]  <airlied_> still going via the drm git though first..
 [16:33:42]  <airlied_> jbarnes: I'm going to reorg drm git tree next when I get a chance.
 [16:33:47]  <marcheu^ that'd mean volunteer based project become second class
 [16:34:16]  <marcheu> then no wonder there aren't much volunteers in the DRI
 [16:34:39]  <jbarnes^ it sounds like it would mean that volunteers get first class service
 [16:34:50]  <jbarnes> they don't even have to push their own stuff upstream since airlied_ would do it for them :)
 [16:35:02]  <jbarnes> while the poor vendors have to do double the work :)
 [16:36:01]  <airlied_> marcheu: you can do upstream patches as well if you want :)
 [16:36:04]  <marcheu> I'm not sure why vendors would do it since it's so much harder ?
 [16:36:28]  <marcheu> airlied_: oh I'm more saying this'll turn into a mess, but I guess we'll see :)
 [16:36:55]  <airlied_^ well they can't push core changes, this is more for driver fixes etc.
 [16:37:25]  <marcheu> yeah, I guess if you say everyone can do that I don't mind
 [16:37:29]  <airlied_> I sometimes end up blocking for too long..
 [16:37:53]  <airlied_> I'd probably like to get one maintainer per driver, who understands kernel rules.
 [16:37:56]  <airlied_> esp with modesetting etc.
 [16:38:22]  <airlied_> the amount of stuff in a drm driver is getting too big for me to clean it all up etc.
 [16:38:53]  <airlied_> so somebody that understands, kernel whitespace rules, checkpatch.pl, API versiooning etc.
 [16:39:49]  <ajax> i'll maintain the #9 drm driver
 [16:39:56]  <ajax> i totally volunteer for that
 [16:40:05]  <marcheu> you have to write it first !
 [16:40:29]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/drm/tree/linux-core/imagine_drv.c
 [16:40:46]  <ajax> OH SNAP
 [16:41:11]  <marcheu> let me see, I'm sure I can find a flaw since it never saw user space usage right :)
 [16:41:18]  <ajax> well
 [16:41:24]  <ajax> there's the part where it exposes no maps
 [16:41:37]  <ajax> and how it violates the whitespace rules (tab fascists)
 [16:43:21]  <ajax> but you know.  other than that.
 [16:43:22]  <pjones^ now try to see if you can get Magic Hat to sponsor that work...
 [16:43:47]  <airlied_^ surely we have a RHEL customer that needs #9 support :)
 [16:44:22]  <pjones^ I was more thinking that maybe since the name of one of their beers is "#9", well...
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[16:44:28]  <pjones> you see where I'm going there.
 [16:46:07]  <ajax> huh.  #9's offices were in lexington.
 [16:46:10]  <ajax> small world.
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[16:49:29]  <anholt> airlied_: I think it's a sensible plan.
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[16:54:59]  <CE> the xrender-spec says "When fetching pixels.... three options .... outside the drawable" and lists transparent as one possible option
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[16:55:15]  <CE> how can I set transparent?
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[16:56:01]  <CE> I tried setting RepeatNone, but when rendering a transformed picture pixels not covered by the src are rendered black instead of transparent :-/
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[17:15:27]  <orki> Is anyone here familiar with the calling sequence for mapping/unmapping a window?
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[17:16:27]  <orki> With EXA enabled, RealizeWindow allocates two pixmaps.
 [17:17:02]  <orki> However, when the corresponding UnrealizeWindow is called, only one of the pixmaps is freed.
 [17:18:03]  <orki> This leads to a large memory leak as reported in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=454117
 [17:18:21]  <orki> airlied_: ping
 [17:19:07]  <idr> ajax: "We" need to do Xv (XvMC?) support for those cards.  I want reasonable video on my 1600SW. :)
 [17:19:12]  <airlied_> orki: pong just looking now
 [17:19:32]  <orki^ Thanks.
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[17:20:12]  <orki> Using gdb on a remote machine, I get lost between the calls to RealizeTree and AllocatePixmap
 [17:20:24]  <ajax> idr: no motion comp, sadly.
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[17:21:14]  <ajax> xv's doable though.  i can prosify what the docs state if you want ;)
 [17:21:33]  <idr> SO
 [17:21:36]  <idr> TEMPTING
 [17:22:13]  <ajax> oh man, i forgot how awesome this doc is
 [17:22:34]  <ajax> "A.2 Linear Memory Windows Operation (Kevin, please review this section)"
 [17:22:57]  <daniels> clasy!
 [17:23:06]  <daniels> (that's a less classy version of 'classy'.)
 [17:23:43]  <idr> heh...
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[17:24:38]  <idr> brb...
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[17:26:39]  <orki> ajax: Do you have any reason to believe that 443239 and 454117 are different?
 [17:27:32]  <orki> I could not reproduce fd.o bug 16316 (in terms of producing a similar valgrind log).
 [17:27:40]  <ajax^ no idea, tbh.
 [17:28:10]  <orki^ ok
 [17:29:51]  * airlied_ blames kde.. :)
 [17:33:03]  <orki^ Is there some documentation that can ge me an idea of what is supposed to happen to pixmaps allocated when mapping/unmapping a window?
 [17:33:04]  <ajax> idr: short answer is, MW0 and MW1 are your memory windows, more or less like radeon surfaces.  MWX_CTRL bit 20 turns on color space conversion.  bit 22 is 0: YCbCr, 1: YUV.  bit 23 is 0: YUV 4:2:2, 1: YUV 4:4:4.
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[17:36:31]  <orki> Also, when I have only a single window on my desktop, and the window is being mapped, the window object seems to have a child object of the same size as the window. So, when mapping, the child window gets a pixmap and then the parent window gets a pixmap. However, on unmapping, only the child's pixmap is destroyed. The parent's pixmap never comes within a mile of Xfree.
 [17:37:08]  <orki> My primary confusion is figuring out why there are two windoes of the same size at the same spot.
 [17:38:23]  <ajax^ is your window manager reparenting?
 [17:39:05]  <orki^ I don't know enough to answer that question. I am using kwin from KDE4. Does that help?
 [17:39:47]  <daniels> (yes, it is reparenting.)
 [17:39:48]  <orki> When the window is passed into RealizeWindow, it already has a child. Does reparenting, if it happens, happen prior to that?
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[17:41:16]  <daniels> yes, it won't get realised until after it's been reparented.
 [17:41:23]  <daniels> otherwise you'd get ugly flashing and whathaveyou.
 [17:42:15]  <daniels> basically, it goes something like: map request (initiated by client) -> frame map request (initiated by wm) -> frame mapped/realised (initiated by wm) -> original window reparented -> original window mapped/realised
 [17:42:37]  <orki> Does reparenting mean that a new parent is created with the window of interest as a child?
 [17:43:34]  <orki> So the newly created frame is the new parent?
 [17:43:39]  <daniels> correct.
 [17:43:58]  <daniels> this is what window managers do in order to paint the titlebar, close/minimise/maximise buttons, etc.
 [17:44:17]  <orki> When the child is unmapped, both the child and its new parent need to be unmapped, right?
 [17:44:48]  <orki> And they both have independent pixmaps representing them
 [17:44:50]  <daniels> well, they should both be destroyed, yes.  i don't know whether kwin would destroy the child and then the parent, or just destroy the parent which would result in automatic destruction of the child.
 [17:45:28]  <airlied_> does restarting kwin help?
 [17:45:34]  <orki> Hold on, when I move to a new virtual desktop, the child should not be destroyed?
 [17:45:53]  <orki> airlied_: I haven't tried that; back in a second with the results
 [17:46:48]  <ajax> oh, and then there's a yuv lut that i need to document
 [17:47:15]  <orki> airlied_: Killing kwin kills the X session and puts me back on the login screen.
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[17:47:49]  <jcristau> orki: he said restart, not kill
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[17:48:11]  <orki> jcristau: How do I restart kwin without killing it?
 [17:48:14]  <jcristau> as in, tell the wm to exec itself
 [17:48:19]  <orki> Pardon my stupidity
 [17:48:28]  <airlied_> run an xterm or something to keep X going and restart it.
 [17:48:28]  <jcristau> no idea, never used kwin :)
 [17:48:34]  <airlied_> does kwin have a --reload or something.
 [17:48:49]  <orki^ I'll check
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[17:49:43]  <orki> Also, the leaked pixmap memory is owned by X (both by debugging via gdb and checking the corresponding numbers in /proc/<pid of X>/smaps
 [17:50:30]  <airlied_^ kwin could be holding some sortof ref to it .. I'm not sure.
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[17:51:09]  <orki> ok, I am mapping/unmapping some windows to leak some memory before starting kwin, brb
 [17:51:58]  <airlied_^ the reason I ask about kwin, is I'm not sure anyone has seen this without using it.
 [17:52:13]  <orki> Too bad, running "kwin --replace" kills X, hmmmm
 [17:52:14]  <airlied_> I'll have a play with compizlater.
 [17:52:25]  <airlied_> orki: wierd.. run an xterm
[17:52:25]  <orki^ I see. Ok.
 [17:52:45]  <airlied_> before kwin is possible.
 [17:52:51]  <orki^ ok
 [17:54:02]  <orki> Trying that, brb
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[17:58:15]  <orki> Here's something weird: when restarting after X crash, between the time I launched startkde from the xterm and the time kwin started, the screen looked like the crashed desktop from before. After kwin started, things went back to normal. Is there some sort of memory?
 [18:00:07]  <orki> Even killing kwin from the xterm launched before it (via the failsafe option in F9), X crashes and returns me to the DM
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[18:04:10]  <daniels> kde probably kills the session if kwin dies.
 [18:05:13]  <orki> airlied_: I will submit my backtraces to redhat bug 454117 and wait for further developments.
 [18:05:27]  <orki> daniels: ok
 [18:06:48]  <orki> In order to get backtraces, I need to get this machine back on my work network, which means no more IRC. Thanks for the suggestions.
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[19:45:54]  <erikg> has anyone ever seen a display lock (via LockDisplay) produce a white wipe-from-top-to-bottom lockup of X?
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[19:51:18]  <cjb> erikg: a white wipe/lockup more often means the display controller's framebuffer suddenly stopped getting bits pushed through it.
 [19:54:27]  <CosmicPenguin+ olpc or another matter?
 [19:55:09]  <cjb^ rotate with xrandr -o left on latest olpc
 [19:55:21]  <CosmicPenguin> oh, sweet
 [19:56:20]  <CosmicPenguin> using the right driver?
 [19:56:40]  <cjb> whatever's in our joyride builds, I guess it might have switched to upstream
 [19:58:20]  <CosmicPenguin> this happens when the switch happens, or when the screen is locked?
 [19:59:12]  <cjb> when we rotate.  I think erikg's just reporting the function he sees in the backtrace.
 [19:59:25]  <cjb> hm, he does say display lock
 [19:59:38]  <cjb> I guess I'm wrong.  But earlier he was talking about rotate not working.  :)
 [20:00:06]  <CosmicPenguin> both are unfortunate
 [20:00:32]  <CosmicPenguin> but the white screen is when you turn off vsync and/or hsync while the DCON is unfrozen
 [20:00:52]  <CosmicPenguin> which would be an excellent indication that the driver is bad
 [20:01:01]  <CosmicPenguin> because that functionality is fairly new
 [20:02:59]  <CosmicPenguin> Make sure you have 2.10,0
 [20:03:21]  <CosmicPenguin> If you are up to date and it is still wonky, bother me in email and I'll try to recreate it
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[20:07:40]  <daniels> ajax: you might want to c-p some of those
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[20:56:18]  <ssp> keithp: Do you know if there are other extensions than XKB that don't have an "any" window?
 [20:56:48]  <daniels^ hm?
 [20:57:52]  <ssp^ I mean you can generally cast events to XAnyEvent and access the window field
 [20:58:05]  <ssp> Except for the XKB event
[20:58:09]  <daniels> ah, i see.
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[21:14:38]  <whot> ssp: a number of XI events don't let you do that
 [21:15:27]  <ssp^ They do have Xany as the prefix though. Are you saying that that the field will be uninitialized?
 [21:16:01]  <ssp> If the field is just None, I can deal with that
 [21:16:03]  <whot^ no, they just have other values that aren't a valid window
 [21:18:39]  <ssp^ Which events are that? I did look over XInput.h and didn't notice any that didn't have a window field in the right place?
 [21:20:28]  <ssp> For example DeviceMappingNotify has a window field which is initialized to 0 in XExtInt in libXi
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[21:21:22]  <whot> ssp: pretty much all new XI2 events
 [21:22:45]  <whot> I guess that should be fixed, care to submit a patch? :)
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[21:28:22]  <ssp> whot: Ah, I was looking at the Xi I have installed
 [21:29:38]  <ssp> I may send a patch, but simply saying that extensions do not generally send XAnyEvents may be just as useful
 [21:30:46]  <ssp> Toolkit event dispatching is never going to be completely simple because of structure vs substructure events and the unfixable xkb issue
 [21:31:09]  <whot^ still, we don't need to make life harder than it is
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[23:13:01]  <cjb> daniels: ping
 [23:13:31]  <daniels^ hello
 [23:13:41]  <daniels> have i broken the build?
 [23:13:46]  <cjb^ *ding*
 [23:14:06]  <daniels> fail!
 [23:14:23]  <cjb^ I was going to fix it up for you.  Can I take the remnants of mouse_dev stuff out of xf86MiscExt.c?
 [23:14:45]  <cjb> (http://tinderbox.x.org/builds/2008-07-16-0000/logs/xserver/#build for the log.)
 [23:16:33]  <cjb> Looks like MouseProtocolID is used in many structs/function returns.
 [23:17:46]  <daniels^ i can do even better
 [23:18:04]  <benh> airlied_: you merged my endian fixes in ati master right ?
 [23:18:13]  <benh> did you also put your fixes in ?
 [23:18:22]  <benh> (ie, the endian fixes for reading the tables)
 [23:18:27]  <cjb> daniels: http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/extmouse-build.patch fixes the compile, dunno if it's correct.
 [23:22:45]  <cjb> hard to tell since the callers are outside the server.  I should rebuild the input drivers to test, if you'd like the patch.  Sounds like you have it covered, though.  :)
 [23:26:10]  <daniels^ build's now fixed in master, yeah
 [23:27:51]  <daniels> well, i think so.  i haven't tested the build (ironic for a build fix), but all the failing code has been deleted.  fire was involved.  it was awesome.
 [23:28:48]  <cjb> Woo.
 [23:29:11]  <airlied_> benh: should be all in, own reported it as working.
 [23:29:18]  <benh^ yeah, found
 [23:29:19]  <airlied_> owen even..
 [23:29:36]  <airlied_> benh: I haven't given it a huge amount of testing though..
[23:29:59]  <benh> I'm still trying to fix restoring of offb...
 [23:30:02]  <owen> airlied_: hmmm?
 [23:30:18]  <airlied_^ just saying you test -ati master on r500 powerpc
 [23:30:32]  <owen> oh yeah :)
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----- [2008-07-16] -----
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[00:15:46]  <Level2Tech> Yeah yeah, join my irc channel
 [00:15:54]  <Level2Tech> visit my site too
 [00:16:05]  <Level2Tech> I have code on it for you to check and make better
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[01:12:28]  <benh> legacy_crtc.c:628: error: 'struct drm_modeset_ctl' has no member named 'crtc'
 [01:12:31]  <benh> airlied_: wtf ?
 [01:12:36]  <benh> I tihink I installed the latest drm
 [01:13:24]  <benh> hrm... maybe it's using the wrong one, bloody hell
 [01:13:54]  <benh> ah yes, it's not using the right one
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[03:06:11]  <whot> aargh. anyone free for some automake help?
 [03:06:36]  <whot> libxcb fails on make distcheck here, because it insists on adding xinput.h to the DIST_SOURCES, even if BUILD_XINPUT is disabled
 [03:06:47]  <whot> and I don't know how to stop automake from doing that
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[03:28:20]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:00:08]  <jcristau> whot: BUILD_XINPUT is a configure option, so it wouldn't make any sense if the sources weren't in the tarball
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[06:07:15]  <aep> greetings
 [06:07:53]  <aep> i got a setup with a ps2 and an usb keyboard (actually a barcode scanner). is there any way i can grab only the second keyboard?
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[06:13:26]  <JohnFlux2> aep: I don't know about these things, but maybe MPX is what you want?
 [06:16:39]  <aep> hmm, no i don't think so
 [06:16:58]  <aep> if you mean multi pointer Xorg
 [06:17:31]  <aep> actually i need to tell Xorg to stop sendin the key events to anyone else but me
 [06:17:39]  <aep> ie, grab the keyboard
 [06:17:49]  <aep> but only one of it... hmm maybe multi pointer is indeed what i need
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[06:18:17]  <JohnFlux2> aep: maybe you could do something via the XTest extension?
 [06:18:28]  <aep> oh? whats your idea?
 [06:18:59]  <JohnFlux2^ not sure - just wondering if your app can just grab all xevents
 [06:19:05]  <JohnFlux2> and filter for whichever events you want
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[06:19:23]  <aep> humm, Xorg does allow that?
 [06:19:23]  <JohnFlux2^ I don't know sorry :-)
 [06:19:31]  <aep> hehe np. ideas are welcome
 [06:21:32]  <aep> well the worst is that i need a solution which works on any default X installation
 [06:21:59]  <aep> i supose X doesn't even add an identifier to the Event saying which keybord it is from?
 [06:22:21]  <aep> maybe i need to write my own kernel module to take control away from X. *shudder*
 [06:22:30]  <aep> 4011886003470
 [06:22:33]  <aep> woops
 [06:22:47]  <JohnFlux2> is that your credit card number? :-D
 [06:23:03]  <aep> heh no, some arbitary pen i found on my desk
 [06:23:56]  <JohnFlux2> oh, it's from the barcode reader?
 [06:23:58]  <JohnFlux2> awesome :)
 [06:24:16]  <aep> indeed. we're writing open source ERP software here :)
 [06:24:35]  <aep> and now i need to grab input from that scanner
 [06:25:11]  <aep> on faildows you can just grab a specific device :/
 [06:28:05]  <JohnFlux2^ why do you want to grab that specific device though?
 [06:28:23]  <MrCooper+ so you can with MPX I think
 [06:28:31]  <JohnFlux2+ It should work the same whether you type the number in via the keyboard or via the barcode reader
 [06:28:41]  <JohnFlux2> all the ERP software that I've seen does that
 [06:28:48]  <MrCooper> or XI(2) or whatever's relevant for this
 [06:29:58]  <aep> JohnFlux2: no, thats exactly the point. ERP software works that way becouse they support legacy devices
 [06:30:08]  <aep> MrCooper: hm but that requires the user to install a fork of X, right?
 [06:30:36]  <MrCooper> no, it's merged to xserver master and will be in the 1.6 release
 [06:30:58]  <aep> oh nice. so it's an extension?
 [06:31:05]  <aep> will rtfm
 [06:31:14]  <aep> thanks for the ideas
 [06:31:16]  <JohnFlux2^ MPX will be in the next release of X I think
 [06:31:22]  <JohnFlux2> I think it's already in head
 [06:33:50]  <aep> outch, looks like the Qt toolkit doesn't like MPX
 [06:34:27]  <aep> i guess i can filter the events myself and feed them back as single pointer events. 
[06:34:30]  * aep scratches head
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[07:09:06]  <whot> jcristau: ah, so I can safely ignore the error then?
 [07:10:09]  <whot> aep: XInput allows you to grab specific devices, even before XI2/MPX
 [07:10:41]  <whot> except that grabbing a device still feeds into the core keyboard, so you lose without mpx :)
 [07:11:24]  <whot> XTestFakeKeyboardEvents is what you want to feed them back btw
 [07:12:32]  <whot> JohnFlux2: yes, mpx has been in head since end of may
 [07:15:47]  <aep> interesting. actually i'm fine with that as long as it means my application can decide which device sent the event.  i will ungrab if i loose keyboard focus anyway (so the user can use teh barcode scanner for some other apps in a different way)
 [07:16:19]  <aep> can't find any docs for XTestFakeKeyboardEvents . is that even user api?
 [07:23:31]  <whot^ XTestFakeKeyEvent
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[07:25:05]  <whot> aep: however, you won't be able to do it w/o mpx. xinput 1 was good for some things, but not for what you plan
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[07:59:55]  <Turmlos> daniels: The XFree86-Misc removal broke hw/xfree86/utils/xorgcfg/mouse-cfg.c.
 [08:03:00]  <daniels^ awesome.
 [08:03:20]  <daniels> i'd recommend --disable-xorgcfg for now, hopefully it gets deleted.
 [08:08:26]  <Dr_Jakob^ xds?
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[08:18:25]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: long story involving a chqeulost cheque in the mail
 [08:18:39]  <daniels> it should get to them in a day or two though, so i'm writing everything up now
 [08:18:48]  <daniels> trust me, this has been no more fun for me than it has for you
 [08:22:57]  <Dr_Jakob> I dont doubt it.
 [08:23:12]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: thanks for all the hard work you are doing.
 [08:23:53]  <daniels> heh, np
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[08:36:05]  <aep> whot: thanks. found the manual i need
 [08:36:53]  <aep> hum, how could i run Xorg head on my workstation without risking my working environment?
 [08:38:21]  <whot^ install into a directory of your choice? (e.g. /opt/xorg/)
 [08:38:46]  <aep> and start it manualy? sounds like a good idea
 [08:38:48]  <aep> thanks
 [08:39:48]  <whot^ mv /usr/bin/X /usr/bin/X_original; ln -s /opt/xorg/bin/Xorg /usr/bin/X
 [08:39:51]  <whot> then restart gdm
 [08:47:50]  <aep> yeah cool
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[09:07:40]  <marcheu> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/bibby ?
 [09:08:34]  <daniels> cover for a spam account, presumably
 [09:13:35]  <jcristau> whot: oh, i think i understand now. try nodist_libxcb_xvmc_la_SOURCES?
 [09:16:08]  <whot^ how do I apply that
 [09:18:58]  <jcristau> hrm. are these things supposed to be in the tarball?
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[09:19:50]  <whot> jcristau: well, the problem here is simply that make distcheck of the git repository fails, since xinput.h doesn't exist
 [09:20:22]  <whot> so I guess it shouldn't be in the tarball.
 [09:21:10]  <jcristau> let me try here
 [09:21:35]  <whot^ same for xselinux. both xinput and xselinux are disabled by default, make distcheck succeeds when they are explicitly enabled
 [09:22:34]  <whot> so I guess for a release, I just release with the tarball created with --enable-xinput/--enable-xselinux. shouldn't matter, right?
 [09:22:59]  <jcristau> sigh, i can't even build xcbproto
 [09:23:09]  <whot^ phython?
 [09:23:15]  <jcristau> yeah
 [09:23:16]  <jcristau> xcbgen/Makefile.am:3: required file `./py-compile' not found
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[09:25:05]  <jcristau> autoreconf -vfi fixed it
 [09:29:30]  <jcristau> whot: it works if i move the EXTENSION_XML += xinput.xml outside of the conditional
 [09:30:04]  <jcristau> because then it knows how to build xinput.[ch]
 [09:30:32]  <whot^ bloody hell, you're right
 [09:31:34]  <whot> want to push the patch?
 [09:31:40]  <jcristau> that stuff is kind of ugly though
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[09:33:10]  <whot> may be so. I do like the fact that it doesn't break though :)
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[09:34:19]  <jcristau> whot: i think either all the EXTHEADERS/EXTSOURCES/EXTENSION_XML should be outside of conditionals, or all the libxcb_foo_la_SOURCES should be nodist
 [09:35:28]  <whot^ when I tried nodist_...xinput_SOURCES with xinput it didn't work
 [09:35:37]  <jcristau> ok..
 [09:36:28]  <whot^ i stand corrected, now it does...
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[09:37:05]  <whot> jcristau: you know more about autotools than me - which one is the better way?
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[09:39:34]  <daniels> it depends what you want to do
 [09:39:57]  <daniels> nodist_..._SOURCES means you always have a build-time dep on xml, but you can only compile what you want
 [09:40:05]  <whot^ get past the "make distcheck" requirement for a module release :)
 [09:40:09]  <daniels> the status quo requires you to have all the proto headers installed in order to make dist
 [09:40:26]  <jcristau> i'll go with moving all the EXT* to outside the conditionals, i think
 [09:40:42]  <daniels> whot: make xinput buildable, then :)
 [09:41:17]  <daniels> hang on, change CLEANFILES to DISTCLEANFILES, maybe?
 [09:41:19]  <whot^ I did the start for it before XDC07, eamon did the rest, but there are some things that can't be parsed (last I heard anyway)
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[09:43:35]  <daniels> whot: okay, you can do something like DIST_OPTIONS = --disable-xinput
 [09:43:50]  <daniels> DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS=--disable-xinput
 [09:44:05]  <daniels> or am i still missing something? :)
 [09:44:29]  <whot^ by default, xinput is disabled. automake just insists on adding xinput.[c,h] to the distfiles. but they don't get created w/o --enable-xinput
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[09:45:27]  <daniels> whot: in theory, distcheck should force-enable everything you haven't specifically disabled
 [09:45:59]  <jcristau> http://people.debian.org/~jcristau/libxcb-automake-hate.diff works for me
 [09:46:25]  <daniels> oh no wait, that only works for subdirs.  shit.
 [09:47:14]  <daniels> hmm, yeah, i'd guess at julien's patch being the most correct.
 [09:47:20]  <whot> jcristau: looks good
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[09:51:29]  <whot> jcristau: can you push this patch? if so, I'll cut a release tomorrow so we can pre-release the dependent xorg stuff
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[09:52:08]  <jcristau> whot: EACCES
 [09:53:06]  <whot> oh? ok, then I'll push it
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[10:02:19]  <whot> jcristau: thanks for that again.
 [10:02:26]  <jcristau> np
 [10:02:28]  * whot sleeps
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[10:10:40]  <daniels> However, on first reboot, nasty surprise. DNS isnseet enabled by default.
 [10:10:40]  <daniels> I found out why DNS isnt, t enabled by default - and (as usual) this comes down to hysterical raisins. Back in what we laughingly call the past, during install Solaris would ask you what services you wanted to use for name resolution (which I guess made sense when people used yp/NIS more often than DNS). The default didn
 [10:10:45]  <daniels> In the graphical installer, it just chose the default without asking co which is no DNS.
 [10:10:49]  <daniels> wrong window, but yay opensolaris in any case
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[10:12:43]  <marcheu> daniels: uh, you use opensolaris ?
 [10:13:00]  <daniels> jesus no
 [10:13:20]  <marcheu> opensolaris on the n800 ? :)
 [10:13:25]  * marcheu hides
 [10:13:36]  <daniels> hey, don't let me stop you ...
 [10:13:43]  <ajax> step right up folks.  be the first to port osol to arm.
 [10:13:58]  <daniels> see if you can manage to beat the competition
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[10:14:49]  <marcheu> oh, the bots are back
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[10:15:28]  <marcheu> hmm right I have one on #nouveau too
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[10:15:46]  <marcheu> any idea what those do btw ?
 [10:16:06]  <daniels> no clue ... not seen them before, just noticed three random names joining at the same time from the same ip
 [10:16:15]  <daniels> i doubt they're benign
 [10:16:28]  <marcheu> they were there the other day then klined
 [10:16:52]  <Dr_Jakob> they are in #xorg too
 [10:17:13]  <marcheu> and #radeon
 [10:17:58]  <Lrrr> Xorg has ennemies?
 [10:18:08]  <ajax> typically we call them "users"
 [10:18:28]  <marcheu> daniels: what's your magic ban line ?
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[10:19:27]  <daniels> marcheu: i don't have any, sorry
 [10:19:41]  <daniels> i'm just looking for people with bullshit names in a _lot_ of unrelated channels
 [10:20:22]  <marcheu> weird they seem to be everywhere
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[10:23:28]  <cjb> Morning.
 [10:23:51]  <cjb> daniels: server builds, xf86-input-mouse doesn't:  http://tinderbox.x.org/builds/2008-07-16-0019/logs/xf86-input-mouse/#build
 [10:28:14]  <ajax+ the xf86Peek/Poke stuff was actually useful until very recently
 [10:28:48]  <ajax> since the kernel botched up ptrace peek/poke on device maps, meaning you couldn't use gdb to print card state
 [10:29:08]  <ajax> works now though.  and i owe riel a beer for it.
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[10:33:32]  <ajax> daniels: also, thank you for deleting misc.
 [10:33:42]  <ajax> PassMessage was a disease.
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[11:06:19]  <daniels> ajax: i shoot to satisfy, i aim to please
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[11:07:56]  <johnflux> oookay
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[11:12:41]  <bgoglin> whot: your last cherry-pick on the 1.5 branch seems to break with "kinput.c:2115: error: 'struct _DeviceIntRec' has no member named 'last'"
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[11:17:22]  <Dr_Jakob> keithp: ping
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[12:12:04]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin, cjb: it is on the xo.  i followed the crash through and confirms that it occurs when xrandr tries to lock the display (LockDisplay).  that it's a driver issue makes sense.
 [12:13:03]  <daniels> alanc: oops, didn't realise your mail was cced to jwz :)
 [12:13:44]  * erikg needs to double-check that conclusion ^^
 [12:13:51]  * erikg and heads to work to do so
 [12:13:59]  <CosmicPenguin^ when did it start breaking?
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[12:14:24]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: f-9 rebase i think
 [12:14:52]  <CosmicPenguin^ okay, that is unfortunate
 [12:14:57]  <erikg^ you think we're losing vsync/hsync?
 [12:15:02]  <CosmicPenguin> I know we are
 [12:15:30]  <erikg> ok
 [12:16:33]  <CosmicPenguin^ okay,  if you can find where LockDisplay steps into the driver, that would be helpful
 [12:16:49]  <erikg^ yes. i will
 [12:16:49]  <CosmicPenguin> there are few places where we would touch sync
 [12:17:23]  <erikg^ i don't quite understand the syncing issue.  what is sync'd to what?
 [12:17:46]  <erikg> if it's involved some documentation would be most helpful
 [12:18:16]  <CosmicPenguin> the dcon sits midstream between the GPU and the display
 [12:18:40]  <CosmicPenguin> it intercepts the TFT data generated by the GPU and swizzles it for Mary Lou's display
 [12:19:07]  <CosmicPenguin> it uses vsync (and a certain extent, hsync) to figure out where the frame starts and stops
 [12:19:23]  <erikg> ok
 [12:19:34]  <CosmicPenguin> if that disappears, then it can't figure out how to clock the data to the LCD, and so it just basically shuts it off
 [12:19:35]  <erikg> (i see that wikipedia has enough to give me an idea of what's going on)
 [12:19:39]  <erikg> right
 [12:19:47]  <CosmicPenguin> which will appear white to you
 [12:20:00]  <erikg^ the output becomes white because the syncing is lost
 [12:20:18]  <erikg> it is notable that at least one person has gotten the syncing to come back by pressing the rotate button four times
 [12:20:29]  <erikg> but i haven't been able to reproduce that
 [12:21:21]  <CosmicPenguin> which would imply that we are doing silly things with rotate
 [12:22:23]  <erikg> what do you mean?
 [12:24:09]  <erikg> ... i'm heading to work now
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[12:38:17]  <alanc> daniels: mine wasn't, ajax added him when he made that patch to shut up the whining
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[13:14:04]  <jcristau> hmm. so should i build the xc-security and/or x-selinux extensions? xc-security is default disabled in 1.5, was enabled in 1.4.
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[14:07:54]  <ssp> dberkholz: I'll be doing a pixman release sometime this week, so if you want the mmx/sse configure fixes in, you'll need to do them today or tomorrow
 [14:09:14]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: i made a mistake in my gdb tracing (debuginfo/libXRandr rpm mismatch).  it's not failing during LockDisplay.  i've seen as far as _XReply.
 [14:10:21]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
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[14:23:23]  <ssp> dberkholz: If you don't plan to get them in for this release, just let me know, and I won't wait for them
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[14:25:33]  <ajax> what the hell.  i thought i got rid of numVideoScreens.
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[15:25:40]  <cjb> should xf86-input-mouse work, or did we just intentionally kill it with the OSMouse removal?
 [15:26:02]  <ajax> it should work.
 [15:26:09]  <cjb> ok.  will send mail.
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[15:36:08]  <dberkholz> ssp: ok, i'll plan on today or tomorrow. thanks for the update
 [15:37:20]  <dberkholz> the problem more precisely is that passing --enable-foo actually disables it. autodetection or --disable-foo both work, which is why you hadn't seen it
 [15:39:30]  <ssp^ I don't see how that happens, but I don't know much about autotools, so I'll take your word for it
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[15:40:44]  <ssp> Ah, I see
[15:40:53]  <dberkholz^ the 3rd argument of AC_ARG_ENABLE is used when --enable-foo is passed and that argument is [disable_sse2=yes]
 [15:41:12]  <dberkholz> same goes for mmx i think, haven't checked the others
 [15:41:22]  <ssp> Yeah, the first argument is "do this if anything is passed", the second is "default"
 [15:41:49]  <jcristau> mmx, sse2 and vmx have that problem
 [15:41:54]  <jcristau> gtk i fixed the other day
 [15:42:01]  <jcristau> i should have looked a bit more :)
 [15:42:04]  <dberkholz> ssp: switching the logic around like s/disable/enable is what should happen, and that will fix it so it makes sense
 [15:42:35]  <jcristau^ if i change them like i did for gtk, does that work for you?
 [15:42:39]  <jcristau> ssp: ^
 [15:42:51]  <dberkholz^ guessing so, didn't look at the diff directly
 [15:43:09]  <ssp+ Yeah
 [15:43:18]  <jcristau> ok
 [15:49:05]  <cjb> could someone push http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/synaptics-modular.diff to xorg/util/modular, please?
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[15:53:35]  <jcristau> cjb: done
 [15:56:13]  <cjb> thanks :)
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[16:09:28]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: seems to be hanging in xcb_wait_for_reply
 [16:09:54]  <CosmicPenguin> hanging?
 [16:09:59]  <CosmicPenguin> wow - sexy
 [16:10:06]  <erikg> hanging... i mean wiping
 [16:10:08]  <CosmicPenguin> X might be dying then
 [16:10:08]  <erikg> unsyncing
 [16:10:12]  <erikg> i need to dig a bit deeper yet
 [16:10:15]  <CosmicPenguin> the server is still alive?
 [16:10:46]  <erikg> it's alive and kicking CPU
 [16:10:50]  <CosmicPenguin> heavily?
 [16:10:57]  <erikg> 99%
 [16:11:01]  <CosmicPenguin> infinate loop
 [16:11:05]  <erikg> yup
 [16:11:18]  <CosmicPenguin> this all seems familiar somehow
 [16:11:20]  <erikg> perhaps i should debug on a serial line
 [16:11:37]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: ping - do you recall something similar from the past?
 [16:13:45]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: can you get gdb on the X server?  we need to find out where it is
 [16:15:54]  <erikg^ yes.  do we just need a trace?
 [16:16:16]  <erikg> note that there is a while loop in xcb_wait_for_reply
 [16:16:31]  <erikg> while(!poll_for_reply(
 [16:17:39]  <cjb> yeah, googling xcb_wait_for_reply shows it's deadlocked before for others.
 [16:17:42]  <erikg> yes
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[16:18:43]  <erikg> there is a note in the source which says "we may have more replies on the way for this request: block until we're sure"
 [16:19:38]  <cjb> .. or we may never get a reply, and then we lose.
 [16:19:38]  <erikg> but ... it's the server that's stuck?
 [16:19:44]  <erikg> right
 [16:20:15]  <cjb> I dont really understand people who use while loops without timeouts.  :)
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[16:21:54]  <erikg> cjb: is there any quick way to resync the dcon with the gpu?
 [16:22:21]  <erikg> i'd prefer to not have to reboot the machine every time i cause the crash
 [16:22:29]  <cjb> don't think so.  restarting X doesn't help?
 [16:22:58]  <erikg> it does...
 [16:23:25]  <cjb> oh.  why reboot, then?
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[16:23:45]  <erikg> i got the machine in an odd place by trying to reboot.  when i just tried to startx it showed me the 'warning' display :)
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[16:40:41]  <cjb> boggle:  make[4]: *** No rule to make target `loadfont.o', needed by `libloader.a'.  Stop.
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[16:43:53]  <ajax> did i miss that?
 [16:44:07]  <cjb> just seen on tinderbox.
 [16:44:15]  <ajax> yeah, i did
 [16:47:02]  <ajax> fix pushed
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[17:03:54]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: so whats the story?  xcb issue or still thinking its the driver?
 [17:03:58]  <CosmicPenguin> it could very well be the driver
[17:04:23]  <ajax^ not ringing any bells, sorry
 [17:04:32]  <CosmicPenguin^ no worries
 [17:04:46]  <CosmicPenguin> if I was you I would have forgotten all I knew about OLPC quite a long time ago
 [17:04:47]  <CosmicPenguin> beer helps
 [17:05:27]  <ajax> it helps the pain but hurts the waistline
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[17:15:47]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: sorry i borked the system and had to reflash
 [17:15:51]  <erikg> ate some lunch as well
 [17:16:20]  <jbarnes> daniels: I think you broke xf86-input-mouse
 [17:16:30]  <jbarnes> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -g -O2 -I/opt/gfx-test/include/xorg -I/opt/gfx-test/include/pixman-1 -I/opt/gfx-test/include -I../src -MT mouse.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/mouse.Tpo -c mouse.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mouse.o
 [17:16:31]  <jbarnes> mouse.c: In function 'MousePreInit':
 [17:16:31]  <jbarnes> mouse.c:1063: error: 'BUILTIN_IF_OSMOUSE' undeclared (first use in this function
 [17:16:40]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: you meant that you wanted a backtrace of the X server when it's in that state?
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[17:17:57]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: that would be best
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[17:20:27]  <cjb> jbarnes: he did; I mailed xorg@ about it.
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[17:23:38]  <dberkholz> jcristau: thx for fixing that
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[17:26:45]  <xorg62> hi !! :)
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[17:44:51]  <daniels> jbarnes: i'm willing to believe that
 [17:44:57]  <daniels> my apologies
 [17:45:06]  <jbarnes^ don't feel bad... ajax busted it today too
 [17:45:33]  <jbarnes> also, I shouldn't be using x-i-mouse
 [17:45:42]  <jbarnes> you forced me to switch to the new synaptics repo
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[17:46:54]  <daniels> alanc: oh, right.  cool.
 [17:47:26]  <daniels> jbarnes: evdev ftw
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[17:49:06]  <jbarnes> daniels: does evdev support all the neat trackpad features I never use?
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[17:50:52]  <daniels> ah, no.
 [17:51:01]  <daniels> in that case, synaptics is the correct answer
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[18:18:43]  <dberkholz> i finally came up with a reason to use synaptics, so i could emulate a mouse wheel
 [18:19:58]  <daniels^ er, evdev does that now
 [18:20:09]  <daniels> no, sorry, 'wheel', not 'button'.
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[18:43:33]  <whot> bgoglin: aargh. thanks
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[19:44:55]  <whot> bgoglin: fixed
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[23:29:10]  <airlied> whot: btw can you look at the numlock issue, I'll find the RH BZ.
 [23:29:21]  <airlied> you may have found it already..
 [23:30:00]  <benh^ ok so I'm reorg'ing avivo_restore to proceed more like what atom does
 [23:30:04]  <benh> in term of ordering etc...
 [23:30:08]  <benh> we'll see if that helps
 [23:30:20]  <airlied^ cool that might help alright.
 [23:31:10]  <benh> yeah
 [23:31:14]  <benh> it was doing things in weird order
 [23:31:20]  <benh> without properly disabling/enabling around
 [23:31:21]  <benh> etc...
 [23:31:26]  <benh> there are still missing bits
 [23:31:27]  <benh> but heh
 [23:31:45]  <benh> for some things I may even be able to just make it use ATOM :-)
 [23:31:46]  <benh> we'll see
 [23:32:13]  <benh> airlied: one weird thing is on first laynch, the gray pattern is bogus
 [23:32:23]  <airlied^ its wierd it works fine with vesafb mostly.
 [23:32:25]  <benh^ maybe related to noaccel... gets weird colors
 [23:32:28]  <benh> like bad bit depth
 [23:32:33]  <benh> airlied: works on subsequent launches
 [23:32:39]  <benh> smells like we do something wrong still
 [23:33:28]  <benh> airlied: ok, VT switch works
 [23:33:31]  <benh> with my changes
 [23:33:50]  <benh> might be working without them tho :-) I just figured I never tried it before, I only ever tried killing X
 [23:34:20]  <benh> ah cool
 [23:34:23]  <airlied> yeah I wonder if killing X does something different.
 [23:34:23]  <benh> kiling X works too
 [23:34:29]  <airlied> niec one.
 [23:34:33]  <benh> yeah
 [23:34:43]  <benh> doesn't explain why the gray pattern is fucked on the first launch tho
 [23:34:44]  <benh> strange
 [23:35:36]  <airlied^ that is wierd.. some surface or swapper being set too late?
 [23:35:50]  <airlied> though I'd expect r300 to show the same type of issues
 [23:37:18]  <benh> dunno
 [23:37:24]  <benh> minor as far as I'm concerned
 [23:37:27]  <benh> I can look later
 [23:37:30]  <benh> let me see without NoAccel
 [23:38:23]  <benh> airlied: oh and I disabled ASIC_INIT too :-)
 [23:38:27]  <benh> gotta try re-enabling that
 [23:38:40]  <benh> I think there's other problems in that case, some regs aren't properly saved/restored that are whacked by it
 [23:38:59]  <benh> we'll see... in any case, we'll be able to ship Bimini
 [23:39:00]  <airlied^ we need to decide when to call that..
 [23:39:04]  <benh> yeah
 [23:39:08]  <airlied> the whole whats secondary vs what isn't is a pain.
 [23:39:15]  <airlied> benh: any idea what card they are trying to source?
 [23:39:27]  <benh^ well, if both CRTCs are off maybe ?>
 [23:39:36]  <benh> or memsize is 0 ?
 [23:39:39]  <benh> agd5f: would have an idea
 [23:39:54]  <benh> I'm not even sure ASIC_INIT is called on my card with current master, it was bcs of a hack in your branch
 [23:40:07]  <benh> bcs that stupid table to return the scratch memory isn't there or returns 0, something like that, for me
 [23:40:11]  <benh> but the card -is- initialized
 [23:40:36]  <benh> airlied: ok, gray background is fine without NoAccel
 [23:40:45]  <benh> might be some surface thingy
 [23:41:06]  <benh> we probably paint it too early
 [23:42:05]  <benh> now I should also try to find that stupid rendering on big endian with the gnome menus in fc9
 [23:42:17]  <benh> "highlighted" state does crap
 [23:42:30]  <benh> maybe a signed/unsigned char bug rather than endian, dunno, probably a libpixman bug
 [23:42:50]  <benh> oh and I haven't tried DRI & 3D :_0
 [23:44:07]  <benh> ok, console switch still busted if I do ASIC_INIT
 [23:44:42]  <benh> with my hacked branch, I'll try the proper one
 [23:46:05]  <benh> bargh
 [23:46:09]  <benh> no dirdiff package in fc9
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----- [2008-07-17] -----
 [00:01:06]  <airlied> benh: surely git diff :)
 [00:01:56]  <benh^ yeah well, I use dirdiff to manually merge my hack branch with a clean one :-)
 [00:02:02]  <benh> then I do git diff to produce a patch
 [00:02:55]  <benh> ok, so as-is, with just my patch, ASIC_INIT is still called, and that fucks it up
 [00:03:07]  <benh> I'll try to find out what registers are missing from save/restore, I think a couple, not more
 [00:03:30]  <benh> either that or we do the RADEONSave - after - the ASIC Iinit :-)
 [00:03:45]  <benh> in fact, we shouldn't bother doing save/restore if we had to do ASIC INIT
 [00:03:50]  <benh> I suspect
 [00:04:04]  <benh> and be smarter at deciding whether to do it or not
 [00:04:18]  <benh> agd5f: you were right, ordering was the issue
 [00:04:27]  <benh> doing the right sequence fixes it here
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[00:07:15]  <airlied> benh: you could try F9 on an r300 to see if the menus are the same.
 [00:07:29]  <benh^ problem exists on my nvidia too
 [00:07:35]  <benh> it's an old problem I think
 [00:07:50]  <benh> just that I use ubuntu on the G5 and whatever theme engine they use by default doesn't show it
 [00:07:58]  <benh> I only saw it on the bimini which happens to have fc9
 [00:09:02]  <benh> airlied / agd5f: current code -always- calls ASIC_INIT if BIOS is "unposted"
 [00:09:16]  <benh> airlied: which is weird ... the driver decides it's unposted if it didn't get it from int10 or something like that
 [00:09:29]  <benh> I suppose that means from segment c0000 in memory
 [00:09:39]  <airlied^ yeah deciding unposted is messy..
 [00:09:39]  <benh^ it doesn't actually care whether the card itself is POSTed or not
 [00:09:44]  <airlied> we need a better heurisitc..
 [00:10:00]  <benh> I suppose we expect ASIC_INIT to fill up some tables
 [00:10:04]  <airlied^ on x86 if the rom isn't at 0xc000 the cards needs posting at least once.
 [00:10:05]  <benh> but in my experience it doesn't
 [00:10:11]  <benh> ie, the scratch space etc... table isn't updated
 [00:10:21]  <benh> yeah but you can see that using MEMSIZE
 [00:10:24]  <benh> just like EnterVT does
 [00:10:25]  <benh> no ?
 [00:10:29]  <benh> any reason not to do that ?
 [00:10:31]  <airlied^ MEMSIZE isn't great.
 [00:10:39]  <airlied> it doesn't seem to work on all cards.
 [00:10:40]  <benh> I can do some blurb inside an ifdef powerpc
 [00:10:44]  <airlied> M6s are the suck.
 [00:10:47]  <benh> ah ? what is the failure case ?
 [00:10:49]  <benh> ah those
 [00:10:51]  <airlied> they always report 0
 [00:10:52]  <benh> yeah ok
 [00:11:01]  <airlied> but I think on newer cards its also a crap heuristic.
 [00:11:05]  <benh> my experience with rev. eng. old ATI stuff is that they use some master clock thingy
 [00:11:12]  <benh> CLK_PIN_CNTL
 [00:11:14]  <benh> or something like that
 [00:11:23]  <airlied> they may even write a scratch reg somewher.
 [00:11:24]  <benh> if the main xtal is disabled, card is only fed by PCIClk
 [00:11:26]  <benh> then they POST
 [00:11:38]  <benh> agd5f: can you find out something ? :-)
 [00:11:47]  <benh> it annoys me that it keeps re-posting when not needed here !
 [00:12:14]  <benh> and it breaks my console restore code :-) at least for now, I will try to fix it
 [00:12:23]  <benh> airlied: why don't I just do something like check if CRTCs are enabled ?>
 [00:12:26]  <benh> if none of them is, POST
 [00:12:37]  <benh> sounds like a good compromise ? (for AVIVO only for now)
 [00:12:47]  <airlied> yeah that might work,...
 [00:13:23]  <benh> I see that the POST code from tables is disabled for !ATOM
 [00:13:29]  <benh> it's that fragile ? :-)
 [00:14:28]  <airlied^ it works on some cards.
 [00:14:33]  <airlied> but I think its missing a few tables yet
 [00:16:09]  <benh^ well, my main problem is that we do the POSTing before we do RADEONSave
 [00:16:17]  <benh> that's not going to help with my console switches :-)
 [00:16:33]  <airlied^ yeah it only makes sense on unposted cards.
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[00:38:17]  <benh> airlied: patch sent
 [00:39:58]  <airlied^ cool.. looks good I'll check it in and see if it busts on x86 :)
 [00:40:05]  <benh> thanks :-)
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[00:58:18]  <airlied> benh: checked in ..
 [01:00:48]  <benh> thanks
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[02:15:43]  <MrCooper> benh: can you send radeon driver patches to the xorg-driver-ati list? Thanks
 [02:16:11]  <benh> oh, there's such a list ?
 [02:16:13]  <benh> missed that
 [02:16:14]  <benh> ok
 [02:16:23]  <benh> well, in that case, airlied merged them :-)
 [02:16:36]  <benh> wait
 [02:16:41]  <benh> I'm already on that list, I just forgot
 [02:16:46]  * benh needs new memory
 [02:17:08]  <MrCooper> I have a couple of spare 512 MB SODIMMs ;)
 [02:21:03]  <benh> heh, we can see if they fit my brain :-)
 [02:22:07]  <MrCooper> so the Mac variants of AVIVO cards also have ATOM ROMs?
 [02:22:33]  <airlied^ do you mean power or intel MAC :)
 [02:22:53]  <MrCooper> or does the PowerStation OpenFirmware run the x86 BIOS
 [02:23:01]  <airlied^ powerstation OF does it
 [02:23:13]  <MrCooper> ah
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[02:38:13]  <benh> MrCooper: I don't know of any Mac variant :-0
 [02:38:25]  <benh> we use an off-the-shelves x86 card
 [02:38:30]  <benh> with a variant of x86emu
 [02:38:54]  <benh> tho it can also run "mac" cards (ie, run the f-code of those, like the G5's nvidia)
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[03:26:06]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:32:15]  <whot> svu: ping
 [03:37:36]  <MrCooper^ btw, MPX seems to be causing some slightly different behaviour even with just a single pointer; e.g. in gitk, clicking on a combo box leaves me unable to select any of its entries until I move the cursor out of the box and back into it again
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[03:40:19]  <whot> MrCooper: ouch. you're right. must be the grab/ungrab enter/leave events
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[03:41:30]  <whot> MrCooper: added to todo list
 [03:41:42]  <MrCooper> awesome, thanks
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[03:57:24]  <whot> svu: nevermind, not what I thought it was.
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[04:33:11]  <Company> daniels: could you make the swfdec git repos listed by cgit again?
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[10:34:19]  <xorg62> hi , do you know how get a client name with Xlib ?
 [10:34:21]  <xorg62> plz
 [10:35:23]  <Lrrr^ client name?
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[10:36:56]  <xorg62> yes
 [10:37:07]  <xorg62> humm
 [10:37:27]  <xorg62> of a window on root
 [10:37:46]  <Lrrr> k, nvm
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[10:40:36]  <xorg62> uh ?
 [10:41:11]  <Lrrr> nevermind
 [10:41:18]  <xorg62> ok
[10:41:23]  <xorg62> why ?
 [10:41:51]  <Lrrr> because I don't know :D
 [10:42:09]  <xorg62> ok :)
 [10:45:58]  <xorg62> anyone else ?
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[11:00:10]  <ajax> woo
 [11:00:22]  <ajax> we're within spitting distance of 400kloc
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[11:04:41]  <antrik> ajax: what did you delete this time?... :-)
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[11:07:23]  <math_b> ajax: now that os-support/lynxos is gone can all the #ifdef(Lynx) and co. be nuked too ?
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[11:34:30]  <math_b> ajax: anyway here is a patch that remove all Lynx related stuff: http://pastebin.com/d69cee5c
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[11:53:22]  <linkdd> hi
 [11:53:35]  <xorg62> _o/
 [11:53:40]  <linkdd> where can i find a tutorial on XToolkit ?
 [11:53:53]  <xorg62> DTC ;)
 [11:54:30]  <linkdd> ^^ i haven't find any things
 [11:54:36]  <xorg62> :D
 [11:54:53]  <xorg62> so , on the tronch's tuto
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[11:55:04]  <xorg62> no ?
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[11:55:15]  <linkdd> xorg62: it's a tuto to learn xlib not XToolkit
 [11:55:36]  <xorg62> oh
 [11:55:43]  <xorg62> Xtoolkit is another lib ?
 [11:55:58]  <xorg62> sorry i didn't knew
 [11:56:02]  <linkdd> http://pficheux.free.fr/articles/lmf/xlib/
 [11:56:15]  <linkdd> XToolkit is the top-levelk of xlib programming
 [11:56:25]  <xorg62> http://www.poplog.org/docs/popdocs/pop11/teach/xtoolkit
 [11:56:46]  <xorg62> is it really needed ?
 [11:56:49]  <linkdd> thanks you
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[11:57:23]  <jcristau> why would anyone want to learn about Xt in this century?
 [11:57:24]  <linkdd> but it's in english i would like in french (i'm not very very good in english)
 [11:57:30]  <xorg62> hihi
 [11:57:35]  <xorg62> you are dreaming :(
 [11:57:57]  <xorg62> i never found a X tuto in french
 [11:58:00]  <xorg62> so xtoolkit...
 [11:58:03]  <jcristau> linkdd: then you should learn english, and forget that Xt even exists
 [11:58:20]  <linkdd> erf, okay
 [11:58:22]  <xorg62> :P
 [11:58:35]  <linkdd^ you will help me ?
 [11:58:37]  <xorg62^ i will help you if you want
 [11:58:39]  <xorg62> hihi
 [11:58:43]  <xorg62> yes
 [11:58:49]  <linkdd> okay
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[11:58:55]  <linkdd> thanks everybody
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[11:59:53]  <xorg62> ^_^'
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[12:01:56]  <math_b> ajax: small mistake, here is a corrected version: http://pastebin.com/m2b00bc58
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[12:09:31]  <ajax> applied, thanks!
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[12:10:37]  <daniels> ajax: i can easily drag us over 400kloc
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[12:10:44]  <daniels> i just need to, y'know, do it
 [12:11:06]  <mraudsepp> git rm hw/kdrive  *g
 [12:11:40]  <daniels^ kdrive is actually fuck-all these days
 [12:11:45]  <jcristau+ most of it is gone already
 [12:12:07]  <Amaranth> git rm *
 [12:12:15]  <Amaranth> yay all bugs gone
 [12:12:31]  <daniels> ajax: huh, why do chips, epson, i810, mga, neomagic, nvidia, pm2, r128, sis300, sdl, smi, and via still exist?
 [12:12:37]  <daniels> pretty sure none of those ever worked
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[12:13:23]  <jcristau> daniels: they... don't?
 [12:13:29]  * Amaranth cries for r138
 [12:13:34]  <Amaranth> err, r128
 [12:14:11]  <jcristau> daniels: there's Xfake, Xsdl, Xephyr, Xvesa and Xfbdev
 [12:14:33]  <xorg62> so , anyone know how get the name of the current window ?
 [12:14:44]  <xorg62> (Xlib)
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[12:16:44]  <Amaranth> what is the deal with via anyway?
 [12:16:47]  <Amaranth> are there still 3 drivers?
 [12:17:50]  <daniels^ two.  we killed the xorg one because it was bullshit.
 [12:17:53]  <daniels> jcristau: erm.
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[12:18:14]  <daniels> oh christ, Makefile.in
 [12:18:15]  <daniels> thanks, autotools
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[12:20:13]  <daniels> ajax: all the koffscreen stuff is unused (only users are people taking care to kick out offscreen pixmans when rotating) if you have a clean tree around and want to delete that
 [12:20:41]  <math_b> Old code in xserver may be fun. I like the "/* This requires linux-0.99.pl10 or above */" in lnx_video.c
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[12:39:02]  <jcristau> hmm, looks like the apple people made xf86bigfont default to no for everyone in xorg-server
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[12:40:27]  <ajax> pretty sure i'm not shipping bigfont in rhel5
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[12:40:42]  <ajax> and haven't heard any complaints about same
 [12:41:44]  <jcristau^ what about security? it's disabled in 1.5, i was wondering whether i should keep it that way
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[12:41:57]  <ajax> daniels: yeah, i toasted most of the kdrive drivers a bit ago
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[12:44:55]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, the directories still remained due to Makefile.in
 [12:45:07]  <daniels> jcristau: leaving security out is fine, it was mostly pointless anyway
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[12:45:17]  <jcristau> daniels: thanks
 [12:45:24]  <daniels> bigfont by default is pointless when you have builtin fonts by default anyway
 [12:46:27]  <jcristau> builtin fonts are still off by default in 1.5-branch
 [12:46:47]  <daniels> i only do 1.n, where n is an even number ;)
 [12:46:54]  <jcristau> heh
 [12:48:14]  <math_b> alanc: Sorry for the incomplete removal of defined(Lynx) && defined(sun)
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[12:48:32]  <alanc> math_b: not a problem, was an easy fix
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[13:04:58]  <xorg62> XLoadFont doesn't work with XDrawString :/
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[13:25:16]  <papillon81> is this current build problem known: "mouse-cfg.c:61: error: 'MTYPE_AUTOMOUSE' undeclared here (not in a function)" ?
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[13:30:19]  <daniels> papillon81: yeah, evdev works, i'm fixing mouse now though
 [13:30:36]  <dberkholz> jcristau, ajax et al: would it make sense to enable builtins by default but still allow for additional fonts to be specified? i think ajax has a patch in fedora for that
 [13:30:56]  <daniels> by default? why?
 [13:31:06]  <papillon81^ allright. just asking since i'm currently testing on ppc64
 [13:31:20]  <daniels> it might make sense for distros, but i'm not convinced having freetype in our default dependency set makes any sense otherwise.
 [13:31:35]  <daniels> especially since they still don't know what an api is.
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[13:33:13]  <ajax> we just build it so all the fpe's are enabled
 [13:33:23]  <ajax> fontfile, xfs, and builtin
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[13:34:05]  <ajax> i think if i was going to do anything along those lines it'd be to have the server dlsym() for the various entrypoints in libXfont and call them if they exist
 [13:34:20]  <ajax> that way it's all soft and works no matter how you build libXfont
 [13:35:02]  <papillon81> dberkholz: when will you commit the synaptics ebuild? or are there problems with it?
 [13:37:20]  <dberkholz^ i haven't had a chance, i'm kind of busy. i'll try to get it into the x11 overlay before i head out for a conference tomorrow
 [13:41:11]  <daniels> ajax: _yes_ _please_.
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[13:51:28]  <ajax> god, libXfont.
 [13:51:35]  <ajax> it's a miracle you work at all.
 [13:51:55]  <ajax> also, what's this shit:
 [13:51:58]  <ajax> 00000038c7c3ef00 W RegisterFPEFunctions
 [13:52:00]  <ajax> 00000038c7c3e5a0 W register_fpe_functions
 [13:54:01]  <ajax> serious stabby
 [13:54:54]  <daniels> jcristau: don't suppose you have an alpha port machine around?
 [13:54:56]  <daniels> ajax: srsly.
 [13:55:11]  <daniels> jcristau: does glibc define sethae now?
 [13:55:12]  <jcristau^ i can log in to albeniz.d.o
 [13:55:54]  <jcristau> (sid)jcristau@albeniz:~$ objdump -T /lib/libc.so.6.1 |grep sethae
 [13:55:54]  <jcristau> 00000000000ea510  w   DF .text 0000000000000070  GLIBC_2.0   0x88 sethae
 [13:57:51]  <daniels> thanks
 [13:57:57]  <jcristau> nothing in /usr/include other than the syscall number though
 [14:02:05]  <papillon81> dberkholz: np :)
 [14:05:07]  <daniels> #ifdef macII
 [14:05:07]  <daniels> #define IMAGE_BYTE_ORDER        MSBFirst        /* Values for the MacII only */
 [14:05:10]  <daniels> #define BITMAP_BIT_ORDER        MSBFirst
 [14:05:13]  <daniels> #define GLYPHPADBYTES           4
 [14:05:16]  <daniels> #endif /* macII */
 [14:05:17]  <daniels> jcristau: yep, that's fine
 [14:05:19]  <daniels> fail!
 [14:05:43]  <jcristau^ yeah, i've seen the #ifdef LIBC_IS_FIXED :)
 [14:09:48]  <ajax> sigh.
 [14:10:00]  <ajax> can't just delete bdftopcf from the OS because nethack requires it.
 [14:10:54]  <ds> new package!
 [14:14:26]  <ds> wouldn't it be easier to move the bdftopcf code into nethack?
 [14:16:42]  <daniels>     /* Why not use gethostname()?  Well, at least on my system, I've had to
 [14:16:42]  <daniels>      * make an ugly kernel patch to get a name longer than 8 characters, and
 [14:16:42]  <daniels>      * uname() lets me access to the whole string (it smashes release, you
 [14:16:42]  <daniels>      * see), whereas gethostname() kindly truncates it for me.
 [14:16:42]  <daniels>      */
 [14:16:50]  <daniels> ladies and gentlemen, the x window system.
 [14:17:09]  <daniels> ajax: sucks to be nethack.
 [14:18:27]  <ajax> i really don't get how libxfont is over 400k.
 [14:18:49]  <ajax> i blame keith
 [14:18:55]  <daniels^ because, failure.
 [14:20:53]  <ajax> oh cool, i'm still building the speedo support.
 [14:21:28]  <daniels> ...
 [14:21:32]  <daniels> (speaking of failure.)
 [14:21:46]  <mjg59> Did we rip out amoeba yet?
 [14:22:01]  <ajax> grep says yes
 [14:22:29]  <daniels> PMAX
 [14:27:49]  <math_b> I think hw/xfree86/os-support/bus/zx1PCI.[ch] is dead
 [14:28:49]  <leio> dberkholz: need help there with getting that to somewhere like portage? I have an alps touchpad in a laptop I need to return soon, and at some point getting a new one with whatever stuff in Latitude
 [14:30:10]  <daniels> hang on, are _any_ of those used with pciaccess now?
 [14:30:23]  <ajax> shouldn't be.
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[14:31:31]  <daniels> linuxpci.c is ...
 [14:31:57]  <daniels> xf86PciProbe -> xf86scanpci -> ARCH_PCI_INIT() == linuxPciInit()
 [14:32:03]  <daniels> which whacks sysfs directly
 [14:32:16]  <daniels> libwtfaccess
 [14:33:26]  <daniels> (via xf86BusProbe)
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[14:33:45]  <math_b> in fact at least 460gxPCI e8870PCI and zx1PC are dead
 [14:34:56]  <daniels> this is all absolutely batshit insane.
 [14:35:00]  <daniels> math_b: yeah, already deleted those ...
 [14:36:17]  <math_b^ right now or are they supposed to be long gone ?
 [14:38:37]  <daniels^ right now, yeah
 [14:40:34]  <ajax> oh my jesus t1malloc.c
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[14:43:53]  <ajax> holy shit.
 [14:44:06]  <ajax> if you do Type1OpenScalable more than ten times, the server will abort.
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[14:48:34]  <daniels> haha
 [14:50:14]  <daniels> ajax: does freetype do type1, or am i hallucinating?
 [14:53:13]  <CosmicPenguin> if you see phantom code when you hallucinate, you need some better drugs
 [14:53:59]  <daniels> sigh x.
 [14:54:00]  <daniels^ g -r DDXOSINIT *
 [14:54:00]  <daniels> configure.ac:AC_DEFINE(DDXOSINIT, 1, [Use OsVendorInit])
 [14:54:00]  <daniels> configure.ac: AC_DEFINE(DDXOSINIT, 1, [Use OsVendorInit])
 [14:54:07]  <daniels> include/do-not-use-config.h.in:#undef DDXOSINIT
 [14:54:07]  <daniels> include/xorg-server.h.in:#undef DDXOSINIT
 [14:54:07]  <daniels> include/dix-config.h.in:#undef DDXOSINIT
 [14:54:10]  <daniels> os/osinit.c:#ifdef DDXOSINIT
 [14:54:20]  <daniels^
[14:59:51]  <ajax^ iirc there's a lossless transformation from one to the other, but nobody's sat down and written it.
 [15:01:24]  <daniels> if only we had someone working on libXfont right as we speak.  he would be awesome, and definitely get bottles of absinthe at xds.
 [15:02:16]  <ajax> commit 15b52ccc25bfb0460578e6a6aac482e9fdd9be41
 [15:02:16]  <ajax> Author: Adam Jackson <ajax@redhat.com>
 [15:02:16]  <ajax> Date:   Thu Jul 17 14:24:26 2008 -0400
 [15:02:16]  <ajax>     Start libXfont ABI version 2.
 [15:02:34]  <daniels> !
 [15:02:40]  <daniels> absinthe all round.
 [15:02:51]  <daniels> ajax: also, why do we still ship xorgcfg?
 [15:03:09]  <ajax> uhh.  pcpa?  possibly just pcp?
 [15:03:10]  <mjg59> daniels: Because gentoo
 [15:03:31]  <daniels> ajax: if only someone would take angel dust and cut pcpa's face off with broken shards of glass
 [15:03:34]  <daniels> i'd be all over that shit
 [15:03:42]  <daniels> mjg59: fuck gentoo.  fuck them up their pre-pubescent arse.
 [15:04:41]  <dberkholz> as soon as X -configure (or no xorg.conf) always works, then there's no more need for that
 [15:05:08]  <daniels> (ahem.)
 [15:05:10]  <anholt> jbarnes: dsparb's looking good on g965 and 945g with 1920x1200 and 1024x768 together and 865 with 1920x1200.  and the 945 had memory pulled out and a compile running, to hopefully increase latency.
 [15:05:15]  <anholt> sound like enough testing?
 [15:05:25]  <jbarnes^ this is with the patch I just posted?
 [15:05:29]  <daniels> dberkholz: i love you, but please stop being a reason to ship xorgcfg. :)
 [15:05:44]  <dberkholz^ i love you too honey!
 [15:05:55]  <jbarnes> anholt: in 16169 I mean... testers reported that the old one didn't work
 [15:06:41]  <dberkholz> daniels: do you happen to know whether the "no xorg.conf state" falls back to fbdev & vesa? if so, that's probably good enough
 [15:06:55]  <mjg59^ It's meant to
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[15:11:19]  <daniels> dberkholz: yeah, alanc fixed that one up, iirc.
 [15:11:25]  <dberkholz> leio: sure, you can add it if you want. i'm sure papillon81 would be happy to send that along
 [15:14:33]  <jcristau> ajax: i think src/Type1 in libXfont is dead code, since the type1 module was removed from xserver?
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[15:40:05]  <ajax> jcristau: actually not.  FontFileRegisterFpeFunctions() will walk down a list of fpe's to register
 [15:40:14]  <ajax> including type1, if you build libXfont with type1 support
 [15:40:19]  <jcristau> argh.
 [15:40:27]  <ajax> and FFRFF is called unconditionally from dix/dixfonts.c, so.
 [15:40:39]  <jcristau> why do i build libXfont with type1 support again? :)
 [15:41:08]  <ajax> bongs and/or hits?
 [15:43:42]  <daniels> and/or hoods
 [15:43:55]  <jcristau> hmm. the fedora spec file doesn't seem to disable it either
 [15:44:03]  <xorg62> anyone know how make a multikey bind with the xlib event ?
 [15:44:27]  <ajax> #ifndef CRAY
 [15:44:31]  <ajax> thanks Xfont
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[15:44:49]  <daniels> xorg62: what do you mean, multikey bind?
 [15:45:02]  <xorg62> for instance : Control-enter
[15:45:15]  <xorg62> mod* + anykey
 [15:45:17]  <xorg62> you see ?
 [15:47:20]  <daniels> XGrabKey has a modifier parameter for exactly this
 [15:47:48]  <xorg62> hmm ok i will se :)
 [15:47:50]  <xorg62> see*
 [15:48:54]  <ajax> Created commit 84bbaab: Delete speedo.
 [15:48:54]  <ajax> 33 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 10822 deletions(-)
 [15:49:11]  <ajax> have i mentioned how much i hate this library?
 [15:49:49]  <daniels> i was so thrilled when our lawyers told me i had to delete cid.
 [15:51:22]  <xorg62^ need i to put it in a event loop ?
 [15:51:25]  <xorg62> :S
 [15:51:56]  <daniels^ erm, you should probably search for an xlib programming tutorial; there are many.
 [15:52:07]  <ajax> "We have two slightly different versions of xiMalloc()."
 [15:52:10]  <ajax> you have two mallocs.
 [15:52:13]  <xorg62> yes i do -.-
 [15:52:17]  <xorg62> http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/input/XGrabKey.html
 [15:52:26]  <xorg62> bingo...
 [15:52:29]  <xorg62> :P
 [15:53:33]  <ajax> jesus monkeybuttering christ
 [15:53:41]  <xorg62> xD
 [15:53:59]  <ajax> you know the fake malloc in t1?  the one that aborts if you add more than ten memory pools?
 [15:54:04]  <ajax> guess where it gets its pools from
 [15:54:39]  <ajax> if you guessed malloc, you win.  drink.
 [15:55:11]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax and daniels remind me of inventorying the contents of a deceased aunt's attic
[15:55:27]  <daniels> ajax: one step ahead!
 [15:57:38]  <ajax> whoa.  STACK_DIRECTION ?
 [15:58:13]  <daniels^ ... yeah ...
 [15:58:20]  <ajax> i bet we can blame cfb for that one
 [15:59:17]  <ajax> what the hell is with the miles of
 [15:59:19]  <ajax> /*SHARED*/
 [15:59:29]  <dberkholz> nice work deleting thousands of lines of code today, folks
 [15:59:34]  <ajax> /*END SHARED*/
 [15:59:36]  <ajax> in xfont
 [15:59:53]  <ajax> (backwards because irssi sucks, and yes, really no code between them.
 [16:01:52]  <dagb^ autogenerated code
 [16:01:54]  <dagb> ?
 [16:02:03]  <ajax> who knows
 [16:02:10]  <ajax> i'd have to go back to ibm circa 1990 and ask
 [16:02:40]  <dagb> some would consider that a waste of time
 [16:02:46]  <Turmlos> daniels: You might want to axe hw/xfree86/os-support/usl/Makefile from line 1932 of configure.ac.
 [16:03:19]  <ajax> oh my sweet christ
 [16:03:31]  <ajax> a free that calls abort.
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[16:03:45]  <ajax> why is there no whiskey in the fridge here
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[16:03:50]  <jcristau> ajax: is there anything in there that doesn't call abort?
 [16:04:02]  <daniels> Turmlos: oops, thanks
 [16:04:20]  <ajax> jcristau: possibly assert()
 [16:04:37]  <daniels+ dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block_but_for_the_love_of_god_dont_fucking_abort()
 [16:04:39]  <jcristau> that would make perfect sense
 [16:04:46]  <daniels> no wait that still calls abort()
 [16:06:10]  <ajax> &author. Jeffrey B. Lotspiech (lotspiech@almaden.ibm.com)
 [16:06:21]  <daniels> it's a pseudonym.
 [16:06:27]  <daniels> no-one would actually put their name to libXfont.
 [16:06:41]  <ajax> Results 1 - 10 of about 1,160 for "jeffrey b. lotspiech". (0.26 seconds)
[16:06:42]  <daniels> either a pen name or someone just trying to make sure someone they always hated could never get a job again.
 [16:07:31]  <jcristau> i should ask juliusz what his real name is, then
 [16:07:52]  <jcristau> there's his name somewhere in it
 [16:08:13]  <ajax>        while (are == NULL) {
 [16:08:13]  <ajax>                if (!GimeSpace()) {
 [16:08:13]  <ajax>                        Abort("We have REALLY run out of memory");
 [16:08:52]  <daniels> ....
 [16:08:55]  <ajax> there's still beer in the fridge, i bet.
 [16:09:00]  <mjg59^ REALLY not afraid of the memory right now
 [16:09:08]  <daniels> jcristau: juliusz chrobocek?
 [16:09:19]  <ajax> also what the hell is with people casting the return value of malloc
 [16:09:21]  <daniels^ bonus points for not spelling gimme correctly
 [16:09:27]  <daniels> seriously.
 [16:09:30]  <jcristau^ chroboczek actually :)
 [16:09:45]  <daniels^ thanks. :)
 [16:09:53]  <ajax> the kicker though:
 [16:09:56]  <ajax> #define   GimeSpace()     FALSE
 [16:10:07]  <jcristau> omg
 [16:10:07]  <daniels> ...
 [16:10:09]  <drago01>
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[16:11:11]  ***  daniels has been deoped by daniels.
[16:11:30]  <ajax> oh man, the comments.
 [16:11:33]  <ajax> /*
 [16:11:35]  <ajax> In some environments, constants and/or exception handling need to be
 [16:11:37]  <ajax> */
 [16:11:56]  <ajax> presumably, in some environments, they don't need to be.
 [16:12:16]  <Dr_Jakob> When was the last time somebody touched this code?
 [16:12:26]  <ajax> i did a release the other week
 [16:12:51]  <ajax> in a functional sense... uh, krh added the catalogue fpe, which was actually a net win all around
 [16:13:19]  <jcristau> and daniels removed cid :)
 [16:13:27]  <ajax> but before that i'm guessing freetype support was the last big change
 [16:17:03]  <papillon81> man, you are doing quite some big work here
 [16:17:47]  <papillon81> it keeps me from compiling xorg, but there are times when cleaning up is necessary
 [16:18:04]  <ajax> OH GOD NO NOT ANOTHER OPEN CODED ALLOCATOR
 [16:19:45]  <xorg62> :/
 [16:19:58]  <ajax> the best part is how they're both in the type1 code
 [16:20:11]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: made some minor progress on the xrandr crash
 [16:20:15]  <ajax> both written by ibm almaden
 [16:20:59]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: when running just X (not sugar) i can rotate the screen without a server lockup.  i've still got a mouse cursor that i can move around.
 [16:21:59]  <xorg62> hmm
 [16:22:03]  <CosmicPenguin> man, this just keeps sounding more and more familiar
 [16:22:10]  <xorg62> i know how make a grabkey but not use :(
 [16:22:19]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: can you try twm, make sure you the screen really is rotating?
 [16:22:35]  <erikg^ it's rotating to the extent that the mouse moves as would be expected in each orientation.
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[16:22:40]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: oh, and have you tried a trac search/
 [16:22:48]  <CosmicPenguin> too familiar
 [16:22:49]  <erikg^ on what terms?
 [16:22:57]  <CosmicPenguin> lemme see if I can figure out the magic touch
 [16:22:58]  <xorg62> i want to do : if the GrabKey == TRUE { system("xterm /*for example*/"); }
 [16:23:00]  <CosmicPenguin> trac and I are not friends
 [16:23:29]  <erikg^ X starts eating cpu when i run sugar and then rotate with xrandr
 [16:23:53]  <erikg> but when i don't (when i just run 'X') it does not hog the cpu
 [16:24:13]  <xorg62> :/
 [16:25:26]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: that sounds like sugar is involved, huh?
 [16:25:35]  <CosmicPenguin> try twm really quickly, that will confirm it
 [16:27:42]  <erikg> hold on
 [16:27:54]  <xorg62> no one know do that?  :/
 [16:29:17]  <erikg> i'm not finding twm in my path.  installing it...
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[16:35:03]  <erikg> twm gets unhappy and quits if there is no xterm on the system!
 [16:36:58]  <CosmicPenguin> yay twm!
 [16:38:43]  * ajax boggles
 [16:38:53]  <ajax>        int rc = -1;          /* return code for QueryDeviceState             */
 [16:39:01]  <ajax>        if (rc != 0)          /* we only bother with this check once          */
 [16:39:02]  <ajax>                Abort("Context:  QueryDeviceState didn't work");
 [16:41:14]  <ajax> my liver is cringing in anticipation
 [16:42:27]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: hm. the twm i have insists on running "xterm xterm" on startup.  xterm has no idea what that means and so the whole thing crashes...
 [16:42:49]  <CosmicPenguin> hum - strange
 [16:43:00]  <CosmicPenguin> must be a package thing
 [16:43:15]  <CosmicPenguin> I guess you can run x by itself and run a simple app
 [16:43:17]  <CosmicPenguin> like xlogo
 [16:43:27]  <erikg> yeah.  well.  i'm going to try fluxbox
 [16:43:37]  <CosmicPenguin> thattoo
 [16:43:51]  <erikg^ so i would run X ... ? to run the app as a client?
 [16:43:57]  <CosmicPenguin> yeah
 [16:44:02]  <papillon81> ajax: LOL
 [16:44:05]  <CosmicPenguin> all you want is something on the screen to make sure that rotation is realy happening
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[16:44:34]  <erikg> right.  i know the cursor orientation is rotating...
 [16:44:40]  <erikg> did i mention that?
 [16:45:30]  <erikg> oh bomb.  i got twm running...
 [16:46:10]  <pjones> ajax: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there.
 [16:46:18]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: looks to kill the wm
 [16:46:31]  <erikg> same situation.  X is hogging cpu....
 [16:46:58]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [16:47:11]  <CosmicPenguin> that is a good data point
 [16:47:13]  <erikg> yup.
 [16:47:43]  <erikg> now.  the display stays white.  (i tried to xrandr -d :0 -o normal to get it back)
 [16:47:49]  <CosmicPenguin> The time has come to start instrumenting the X server and figuring out where it is blowing out
 [16:47:54]  <erikg> yup.
 [16:48:09]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: i will need some guidance about the best way to start that
 [16:48:35]  <CosmicPenguin> Its likely to be crashing in the driver
 [16:48:38]  <CosmicPenguin> so thats good
 [16:48:40]  <erikg> (btw; the display is borked.  i can't kill the X server and restart.  it ends up in the same cpu-hog state and can't draw anything to the display.)
 [16:48:45]  <erikg> yes.  looks driver-ish
 [16:48:56]  <CosmicPenguin> Get yourself a X development environment and the driver from git
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[16:50:05]  <CosmicPenguin> src/lx_rotate.c is almost definately where you are hanging
 [16:50:12]  <erikg^ by 'X development environment' you just mean a system on which i can compile X?
 [16:50:23]  <CosmicPenguin^ yes - mainly just the driver
 [16:50:41]  <erikg> i'm there already.  i was compiling X yesterday for kicks.
 [16:51:00]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [16:51:23]  <CosmicPenguin> The macro ErrorF will print to the error log (and stdout)
 [16:51:32]  <CosmicPenguin> You can sprinkle it liberally throughout the code
[16:52:11]  <erikg> ok
 [16:59:41]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: i've cloned git://git.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/xserver, but i'm not seeing lx_rotate.c
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[17:00:13]  <ajax> argh
 [17:00:27]  <ajax> libXfont has a 4-clause BSD license
 [17:00:38]  <ajax> fortunately it's from the Regents, so it's not really.
 [17:01:39]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: no - you need the driver
 [17:01:45]  <erikg^ i misunderstood
 [17:01:48]  <erikg> i see
 [17:01:52]  <CosmicPenguin> git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-geode
 [17:02:04]  <erikg> thank you
 [17:02:12]  <mherrb> ajax, if it's from the Regents of the University of California the advertising clause can be removed.
 [17:02:23]  <ajax^ right, "so it's not really"
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[17:34:52]  <anholt> jbarnes: yeah, the old one was broken, though, in ways we'd noted
 [17:35:21]  <anholt> I'm using the patch from today, with both the IS_I9XX() class register writes coalesced, and a separate case for non-mobile 8xx that doesn't write into the reserved fields.
 [17:35:47]  <jbarnes> oh cool
 [17:35:49]  <jbarnes> yeah that sounds fine
 [17:36:52]  <anholt> so, I'm thinking of pushing it.  any objection?
 [17:39:49]  <jbarnes^ yay, seems to fix 16169
 [17:39:49]  <jbarnes> please push!
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[17:40:17]  <jbarnes> it'll probably fix 16284 too
 [17:41:10]  <anholt> arguably we should be using pixel rate rather than just hdisplay, but this is at least better
 [17:45:01]  <jbarnes> yeah... it was alanh's suggestion to use size, but pixel rate would be more accurate
 [17:45:18]  <jbarnes> easy enough to update though now that it's in i830_display.c
 [17:46:08]  <anholt> yeah, thank you for moving it.  I should have realized that when I split the function out
 [17:47:28]  <jbarnes> I don't really like how it's structured, but given how the core splits our output & crtc calls it's hard to do better
 [17:47:48]  <jbarnes> would be better if we got a bigger config structure for both crtcs
 [17:55:29]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: we're stuck in gp_wait_until_idle in cim/cim_gp.c
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[17:56:03]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: we're stuck in gp_wait_until_idle in cim/cim_gp.c
 [17:56:15]  <erikg> er.  CosmicPe1guin
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[17:57:08]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: shit, I should have known
 [17:57:16]  <erikg> no worries
 [17:57:21]  <CosmicPenguin> is this the new firmware?
 [17:57:34]  <erikg> whatever shipped with 2146
 [17:57:55]  <erikg> '2d16
 [17:57:59]  <erikg> q2d16
 [17:58:03]  <CosmicPenguin> what does your xorg.conf look like/
 [17:58:09]  <erikg> rebooting...
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[18:00:46]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: http://dev.laptop.org/~erik/scratch/xorg.conf
 [18:01:51]  <CosmicPenguin^ can you give me your x log too?
 [18:03:04]  <erikg^ through the crash?
 [18:03:14]  <CosmicPenguin> doesn't matter
 [18:03:17]  <CosmicPenguin> I want to see the init stuff
 [18:03:40]  <erikg> http://dev.laptop.org/~erik/scratch/Xorg.0.log
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[18:16:03]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: i don't see significant differences between build 708's xorg.conf and joyride-2146
 [18:17:47]  <CosmicPenguin> usually this problem happens when the commadn buffer gets corrupted
 [18:17:57]  <daniels>         /*
 [18:17:57]  <daniels>          * Just in case the ddx doesnt supply a format for depth 1 (like qvss).
 [18:18:00]  <daniels>          */
 [18:18:04]  <daniels> any reason this bit of dix/main.c shouldn't taste the curb?
 [18:18:11]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: the gpu command buffer?
 [18:18:15]  <CosmicPenguin^ nod
 [18:18:24]  <CosmicPenguin> but I'm not seeing any smoking guns
 [18:18:50]  <CosmicPenguin> but we do depend on some EXAish features that may have changed underneath us
 [18:18:56]  <erikg> is the gpu hung in a non-idle state?
 [18:19:09]  <erikg> actually hung in a non-idle state?
 [18:19:10]  <CosmicPenguin> the gpu is either hung, or processing an impossible blit
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[18:28:40]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: the hanging wait_until_idle is in LXUpdateFUnc, right?
 [18:28:49]  <erikg^ i'm trying to verify that now
 [18:28:55]  <erikg> i think it is but i'm recompiling to check
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[18:29:22]  <erikg> and rebooting this xo again... seems to take most of the time with problems like this
 [18:29:53]  <CosmicPenguin> I have no idea where this is going down
 [18:30:00]  <CosmicPenguin> very annoying
 [18:31:30]  * CosmicPenguin recreates
 [18:31:32]  <erikg> it's going to be another minute.  i'm just going to ErrorF flag all the gp_wait_until_idle calls...
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[18:31:39]  <CosmicPenguin> okay - I see
 [18:31:41]  <CosmicPenguin> this is totally memory fail
 [18:31:47]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: still here?
 [18:31:54]  <erikg> otherwise i may have to recreate / reboot a number of times
 [18:39:27]  <CosmicPenguin> okay, excellent - I recreated on my development platform
 [18:39:47]  <CosmicPenguin> time to hack
 [18:41:15]  <erikg> haha, it's getting stuck in the wait in lx_wait_marker
 [18:41:22]  <erikg> so i have to go back and instrument lx_wait_marker calls
 [18:44:48]  <CosmicPenguin> don't worry about it
 [18:44:52]  <CosmicPenguin> I know where that is
 [18:44:54]  <erikg> ok
 [18:45:03]  <erikg> where is that call coming from?  i'm not finding it...
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[18:45:25]  <CosmicPenguin> lx_wait_marker?
 [18:45:27]  <CosmicPenguin> its an exa call
 [18:45:36]  <erikg> ok
 [18:46:08]  <CosmicPenguin> okay, I'm guessing the shadow buffer is overwriting the command buffer
 [18:46:29]  <CosmicPenguin> if it was poorly configured memory then nothing would work
 [18:46:48]  <erikg> that sounds plausible
 [18:59:54]  <CosmicPenguin> That looks like the behavior that are seeing too
 [19:01:33]  * CosmicPenguin turns on massive EXA debug
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[19:04:21]  <erikg> any way to guess what git commit was pulled for ~708 ?
 [19:05:09]  <DrNick> guess what?
 [19:05:36]  <erikg^ i'm looking through git logs and wondering how they match a driver i used on an older build of the olpc XO-1
 [19:05:39]  <erikg> software
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[19:17:13]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: clues.  http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7442
 [19:22:05]  <CosmicPenguin> possibly
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[23:07:42]  <ssp> keithp: Does this make make sense in your opinion:
 [23:07:45]  <ssp> static CARD8 criticalEvents[32] =
 [23:07:45]  <ssp> {
 [23:07:45]  <ssp> -    0x7c                               /* key and button events */
 [23:07:45]  <ssp> +    0x7c, 0x30, 0x40                   /* key, button, expose, and configure events */
 [23:07:45]  <ssp> };
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[23:28:39]  <whot> hehe. good to know
 [23:28:47]  <whot> whoops, wrong channel
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[01:28:31]  <benjsc> anyone know if opengl works via dmx?
 [01:30:14]  <whot^ dmx doesn't work at all.
 [01:30:39]  <whot> but yes - i
 [01:30:49]  <airlied> you can make GL work on DMX.
 [01:30:51]  <whot> 've come across some gl code in it, but no idea if that was ever working
 [01:31:03]  <airlied> I think that was one of the main reasons for DMX
 [01:31:38]  <daniels> yeah, dmx has glxproxy which will explode and relay gl requests
 [01:35:11]  <sxpert> anyone has an opengl lighting tutorial ? I'm getting grayscale rendering ;)
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[01:46:31]  <benjsc> so would glxproxy support modern gl commands like shaders?
 [01:47:25]  <benjsc> or would they fail as shaders assume one device not distribution
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[01:53:44]  <daniels> benjsc: i don't know what version of glx dmx is current to
 [01:53:54]  <daniels> i assume it supports whatever's in glx 1.3 or thereabouts
 [01:56:40]  <benjsc> k thanks, might be looking into updating that...
 [01:57:26]  <daniels> nice!
 [01:57:35]  <daniels> check with ajax, i think he was the last one to look into dmx stuff
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[02:22:14]  <whot> daniels: can you have a look at http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/evdev/ too. figured rather than pushing into fedora I might as well get it upstream
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[03:08:35]  <daniels> whot: Y-E-E-S-H
 [03:09:19]  <daniels> if we're doing that, might as well just have AddDevice or something copy the keymap into the VCK/MD if we haven't yet copied _a_ map in
 [03:09:27]  <daniels> assuming that most people have consistently either kbd or evdev
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[03:26:02]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:27:04]  <whot> daniels: beautiful, isn't it :)
 [03:27:48]  <whot> actually, the problem is simply with evdev + gnome as far as I can tell. if you don't hit a key before gnome starts, the keysyms are all busted
 [03:28:22]  <whot> on another note, how do I get the magic color database to load?
 [03:29:36]  <daniels^ 'keysyms are all busted'?
 [03:29:49]  <whot^ up key happily making screenshots
 [03:29:56]  <daniels> and the magic colour database, assuming you mean the pseudocolour table, is just builtin.
 [03:30:24]  <daniels> whot: right, that's because gnome is waste and seems intent on storing keycodes rather than keysyms for shortcuts.  sigh.
 [03:30:29]  <whot> that doesn't explain the "unknown color gray85" in git
 [03:30:58]  <whot> daniels: yep, and the above "solves" it by getting the actual keyboards map into the VCK before gnome has a chance to screw up
 [03:31:08]  <whot> s/git/gitk/
 [03:31:36]  <daniels^ it's entirely possible that pseudocolour support is mostlybroken
 [03:31:43]  <daniels> poke around in os/oscolor.c
 [03:32:01]  <whot> only on my fedora box, works on the ubutnu one
 [03:32:08]  <daniels^ right. i'd rather just do a map copy from the core rather than adding yet another layer of working around the dix that we have to deal with later, tbh.
 [03:32:30]  <daniels> yeah, i'm assuming ubuntu just aren't sufficiently up-to-date to have a broken rgb db
 [03:32:51]  <whot> uhm, i'm running git master though
 [03:32:56]  <whot> on both
 [03:33:48]  <MrCooper> and the same versions of gitk and tk8.x?
 [03:33:51]  <daniels> hrm.
 [03:34:02]  <daniels> we removed support for a loadable rgb db _ages_ ago.
 [03:35:09]  <whot> so what exactly am I doing wrong then?
 [03:37:13]  <whot> MrCooper: not quite. tk 8.4 on one, 8.5 on the other one
 [03:37:29]  <MrCooper> and the older one complains?
 [03:37:35]  <whot> the newer one
 [03:37:46]  <MrCooper> hmm, that's weird
 [03:38:03]  <MrCooper> I could have imagined the newer tk no longer caring about the RGB db :)
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[03:40:06]  <whot> something seriously broken here. anyway. if you find another program that has a tcl dropdown box but doesn't require colors, I can debug the gitk issue :)
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[03:41:30]  <arekm> crappy libxcb :-/
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[03:45:34]  <MrCooper> whot: can't think of anything offhand... can't you debug it on the machine where gitk works?
 [03:46:04]  <MrCooper> or have gitk from that machine display on the other one?
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[04:17:00]  <whot> MrCooper: na, I'll just have to debug on the other machine. annoying, but it'll work
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[05:04:47]  <papillon81> I'm still having compile problems with current xorg git: "mouse-cfg.c:61: error: 'MTYPE_AUTOMOUSE' undeclared here (not in a function)"
 [05:05:24]  <jcristau^ don't build xorgcfg
 [05:06:29]  <papillon81^ it's a temporary issue, right?
 [05:06:52]  <jcristau> probably. until someone cares enough to fix it.
 [05:08:10]  <papillon81> ok, since i'm on gentoo this is a case for dberkholz to disable it in the live ebuild
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[05:49:51]  <papillon81> jcristau: xorg building fine now. next problem: xf86-input-mouse (git): mouse.c:421: error: 'MouseProtocolRec' has no member named 'emulate3Timeout'
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[06:21:24]  <hachi> xserver 1.5? I thought 7.4 was the version
 [06:21:44]  <marcheu> aaronp: hey man, I want to RE the 1.0-9762 driver for x86, but on your ftp it seems there is only the x86_64 version in the x86 directory
 [06:22:10]  <jcristau> hachi: 7.4 is the X.Org katamari version
 [06:22:51]  <hachi> wait, so you have an upstream?
 [06:23:37]  <jcristau> eh?
 [06:25:10]  <hachi> 'katamari' means clump, or ball, or whatever.... you're not using it to mean collection?
 [06:25:27]  <drago01^ xorg 7.4 ships (will ship) with xserver-1.5
 [06:26:03]  <drago01> yes its a "collection" of xserver, drivers, libs etc
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[06:28:31]  <drago01> marcheu: http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-9762/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9762-pkg1.run
 [06:29:32]  <marcheu> ah seems to work, thanks
 [06:29:36]  <marcheu> is ftp outdated ?
 [06:29:36]  <drago01> np
 [06:29:54]  <hachi> which repo are the drivers like 'nv' kept in?
 [06:29:56]  <drago01> dunno got it from here http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_archive.html
 [06:30:09]  <hachi> oh, git/xorg, bleh
 [06:30:16]  <marcheu> right, my mistake would've been browsing the ftp directly
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[06:41:28]  <hachi> to what end do you RE the driver anyways?
 [06:41:58]  <jcristau^ so he can make one that sucks less?
 [06:42:53]  <hachi> are you able to get meaningful code ideas from binary blobs like that, or do you use it mostly to get constants and the like?
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[07:05:39]  <marcheu> hachi: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/
 [07:09:53]  <jcristau> anholt: has the dsparb patch really been pushed?
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[09:30:36]  <JohnFlux> keithp: hi
 [09:31:29]  <JohnFlux> I read:  http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2008/06/accelerating-desktops.html    which is zackr's blog complaining about xrender.  his main complaint is that there are too many permutations and so the vast majority of permutations are not accelerated
 [09:32:06]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to accelerate xrender at the moment, and finding just this.  there's no reasonable way for me to optimize everything
 [09:32:35]  <JohnFlux> I'm becoming convinced that we really should work on mixing hardware and software acceleration
 [09:33:28]  <JohnFlux> so that we basically tell vendors "you really must optimize X, Y and Z.  The rest will be done in software to reduce them to either a X,Y,Z operation"
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[09:48:39]  <daniels> JohnFlux: accelerate a8r8g8b8/a8b8g8r8 OVER a8r8g8b8/a8b8g8r8, as well as whatever your hardware can manage with a8 (i think it's something like a8r8g8b8 IN a8 OVER a8r8g8b8, typically) and you're laughing.
 [09:49:06]  <marcheu> and the dreaded A8+A8
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[09:58:59]  <daniels> whot: do you know of anything at all using multiple input classes, or is this just more overengineered bullshit?
 [09:59:27]  <daniels> most of the code seems to just randomly draw for the default class because they forgot to put it in the protocol/there's no way to guess the right class given the (lack of) context.
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[10:07:15]  <JohnFlux> daniels: right, but the problem is that app developers have no idea what is accelerated and what isn't
 [10:07:54]  <JohnFlux> for example - is it best to ask xrender to scale and blit, or is it best to scale in software and then ask xrender to blit?
 [10:08:12]  <ajax> in fairness, GL has this problem too
 [10:08:16]  <JohnFlux> daniels: Qt has gone the route of scaling in software then asking xrender to blit.  I think cairo went the other way
 [10:08:20]  <JohnFlux> ajax: sure
 [10:08:29]  <ajax> but GL happens to be mandatory and cross-platform
 [10:08:45]  <JohnFlux> what I'm proposing is having xrender repeatedly try to hardware accelerate
 [10:09:00]  <JohnFlux> i don't think anyone is against the idea ( i've mentioned it before)
 [10:09:14]  <JohnFlux> just trying to drum up some enthusiam :-)
 [10:09:50]  <JohnFlux> so the way I figure it,   xrender should try to accelerate scale + blit.  if it fails, it should scale in software, then attempt a second time to accelerate the blit
 [10:10:25]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I had a look at the code though, and I'm not sure that what I propose is easy
 [10:10:35]  <JohnFlux> because it just uses pixman
 [10:10:51]  <JohnFlux> it hands off the whole of the task to pixman
 [10:11:11]  <JohnFlux> so I can't see how you could do, say, the scale with pixman and then the blit with accelerated xrender
 [10:11:21]  <JohnFlux> (I didn't look at the code for too long though)
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[10:11:41]  <marcheu> right, what about the pixmap migration costs ?
 [10:12:17]  <ajax> exa does kind of have a mechanism for this
 [10:12:25]  <daniels> yeah, exa is the right place to do this
 [10:12:34]  <daniels> it does already attempt to do this for a few ops
 [10:12:44]  <marcheu> with all the migrations, it's still going to be slow
 [10:13:19]  <daniels^ except on uma.  didn't you know that literally the entire world is intel now? get with the program.
 [10:13:39]  <marcheu> must... not... be.... assimilated
 [10:14:01]  <ajax> and except for all those cases where changing caching policy is insanely expensive.
 [10:14:35]  <ajax> OH YEAH IT'S GREAT NO MIGRATION COSTS HERE just don't mind the tlb flushes
 [10:15:16]  <daniels^ you're not handwaving furiously enough, i could still see that last bit
 [10:15:33]  <ajax> war is peace.  freedom is slavery.  uma is performant.
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[10:18:24]  <daniels> heh
 [10:24:04]  <JohnFlux> marcheu: i'm not sure what you mean by the pixmap migration cost.  with the way that I propose, where would that cost come in, but wouldn't otherwise?
 [10:26:06]  <ajax> it's sort of unfortunate that PrepareComposite can't tell you why it failed
 [10:26:19]  <ajax> just that it failed
 [10:26:39]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: software operations are usually done in system RAM whereas accelerated ops are done in video RAM
 [10:27:09]  <MrCooper> so the scaled data would need to be copied from system RAM to video RAM
 [10:27:31]  <MrCooper> (and possibly the unscaled data in the other direction first)
 [10:28:35]  <ajax> you'd have to do that anyway
 [10:29:19]  <JohnFlux> right, what ajax said
 [10:29:34]  <ajax> the idea, if i'm reading it right, is to perform the scale to a temporary surface and then do the final blend with that untransformed (and thus possibly in hw)
 [10:29:48]  <JohnFlux^ right
 [10:30:07]  <JohnFlux> the same thing would apply when there is a mask etc
 [10:30:16]  <marcheu^ that is not how it happens in real life. in real life, pixmaps live in vram because they're here from previous operations. so if you migrate back to system ram you lose
 [10:30:28]  <JohnFlux^ right, but you already do that
 [10:30:28]  <marcheu^ either do it all in vram, or all in system ram. otherwise you lose
 [10:31:01]  <JohnFlux^ if you do it all in system ram, you still have to upload back to vram at the end
 [10:31:22]  <JohnFlux> so you can't do it _all_ in vram
 [10:31:25]  <marcheu> sure, that's called shadowfb then, and most people know that it's quite slow
 [10:32:08]  <marcheu> yes you can, that's why acceleratiing as much EXA as you can is important
 [10:32:17]  <JohnFlux^ you download from vram to system ram.  you scale.  you upload to vram again.  you accelerate blit to the background.
 [10:32:26]  <JohnFlux> compared to:
 [10:32:31]  <marcheu> why would you do that, it's faster to use shadowfb
 [10:33:07]  <daniels> JohnFlux: the cost of doing one extra migration is usually worse than the saving gained by doing the blit in hw
 [10:33:21]  <JohnFlux^ there isn't one extra migration
 [10:33:30]  <daniels^ er, there is.
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[10:33:47]  <JohnFlux> daniels: we want the final destination to be in vram, right?
 [10:33:58]  <daniels> scenario #1: the pixmap is in vram already.  you migrate to system ram to do the scaling in software.  you migrate back to vram to do the blit in hw.
 [10:34:10]  <JohnFlux^ right.
 [10:34:12]  <daniels> scenario #2: the pixman is in system ram already.  you do the scaling in software, and migrate back to vram to do the blit in hw.
 [10:34:50]  <ajax^ you're comparing the wrong things.
 [10:35:01]  <daniels^ go on
 [10:35:04]  <JohnFlux^ right.  i'm proposing do those two scenarios that you said
[10:35:07]  <ajax> those two scenarios are what would happen if we added this additional semifallback.
 [10:35:13]  <ajax> they are _not_ what happens now.
 [10:35:20]  <JohnFlux^ right
 [10:35:24]  <daniels+ that's what i'm saying ...
 [10:35:39]  <daniels> right now, you have 0 or 1 migrations, not 1 or 2.
 [10:35:43]  <ajax> what happens now is: oh shit, gotta fall back to software.  which means slurping the pixels back out of vram one way or the other.
 [10:36:21]  <JohnFlux> daniels: right now, what would scenario 2 look like?
 [10:36:31]  <JohnFlux> if the pixmap in is system ram
 [10:36:43]  <JohnFlux> I don't see how you can do that in just 1 migration
 [10:36:45]  <ajax> scenario a is: pixmap is in vram, migrate it out, scale in software through the framebuffer
 [10:37:05]  <ajax> scenario b is: pixmap is in host, scale through the framebuffer in software.
 [10:37:28]  <ajax> "through the framebuffer" is at least as expensive as "migrate into vram", possibly more so if you're blending.
 [10:37:47]  <ajax> (where a and b are the "what we do now" versions of 1 and 2 above)
 [10:38:08]  <JohnFlux^ don't you have to migrate back into vram?
 [10:38:13]  <JohnFlux> in your scenario a
 [10:38:44]  <ajax> no.  why would you?  it doesn't do you any good to put it back in vram.
 [10:38:51]  <JohnFlux^ well to draw it
 [10:39:14]  <JohnFlux> you are doing a blit.  you need to do the blit part of it
 [10:39:19]  <daniels^ that's the 'through the framebuffer'
 [10:39:26]  <ajax> yeah, but the CPU does that.  in software.  across the bus.
 [10:39:48]  <daniels> it's not the quickest, but neither is migration
 [10:39:55]  <JohnFlux> still not sure what 'through the framebuffer' means if it's not migration
 [10:40:04]  <JohnFlux> it's got to end up in vram to be drawn
 [10:40:10]  <ajax> yes.
 [10:40:15]  <ajax> you have two pixmaps
 [10:40:22]  <ajax> pictures, since we're talking about Render
 [10:40:46]  <ajax> the source is the thing you're transforming.  the destination is the thing you're drawing to.
 [10:41:00]  <ajax> since this is software, they can be _anywhere_.  vram, host ram, whatever.
 [10:41:03]  <JohnFlux^ right.  at the moment we have to ensure both source and destination are in system memory
 [10:41:07]  <ajax> no we don't.
 [10:41:14]  <ajax> we can leave the destination in place.
 [10:41:15]  <JohnFlux> i mean to do software rendering
 [10:41:21]  <daniels^ er, so how do you draw to the front buffer, then?
 [10:41:23]  <ajax> i know what you mean, and i'm correcting you.
 [10:41:47]  <JohnFlux^ I'm saying:   if the destination is in system memory, and we do software rendering, we currently do 1 or 2 migrations.
 [10:41:50]  <daniels^
[10:41:57]  <daniels> (gah irssi)
 [10:42:27]  <marcheu> JohnFlux: that's called prepareaccess in EXA
 [10:42:32]  <marcheu> really, read the EXA docs
 [10:42:45]  <JohnFlux^ if you want to correct me, do so
 [10:43:21]  <JohnFlux> argh, i mean 'vram' above
 [10:43:30]  <daniels^ the point is that you can do software rendering into vram
 [10:43:30]  * JohnFlux sighs
 [10:43:38]  <ajax^ sure, we _do_ that many.  we don't need to.
 [10:43:41]  <JohnFlux> daniels: without a migration?
 [10:43:43]  <ajax> CPU doesn't care.
 [10:43:44]  <daniels> JohnFlux: yes
 [10:43:57]  <JohnFlux^ how? :)
 [10:44:03]  <ajax> it's mapped memory
 [10:44:06]  <daniels> JohnFlux: *pFoo = 0xdeadbeef;
 [10:44:06]  <ajax> it looks like pixels
 [10:44:21]  <daniels> JohnFlux: otherwise software rendering into the framebuffer would be impossible ...
 [10:44:38]  <JohnFlux^ we are talking about a system  with seperate vram and system memory, yes?
 [10:44:42]  <ajax> yes!
 [10:44:42]  <daniels> JohnFlux: yes.
 [10:44:52]  <JohnFlux> at some point that data has to go across the bus
 [10:44:52]  <ajax> do lspci -v on your video device.
 [10:44:57]  <daniels> JohnFlux: yes.
 [10:45:04]  <JohnFlux^ but you don't count that as a migration?
 [10:45:10]  <JohnFlux> it seems the same to me, speed wise
 [10:45:36]  <ajax> "migration" is the term for moving the whole pixmap from one memory domain to another
 [10:45:37]  <daniels> JohnFlux: a migration is when you copy the entire pixmap from vram to system ram or vice-versa, and that's its new canonical location.
 [10:46:06]  <JohnFlux> then it seems pointless to argue "right now, you have 0 or 1 migrations, not 1 or 2."
 [10:46:29]  <daniels> i don't think i can properly explain this, so back to input ...
 [10:46:54]  <ajax> i think we're arguing terminology to some extent
 [10:47:11]  <ajax> i think the semifallback idea does end up faster.
 [10:47:11]  <JohnFlux> yeah, sorry.
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[10:47:34]  <JohnFlux> ajax: i did some actual timings btw
 [10:47:47]  <JohnFlux> the scaling (for a small blit) takes a tiny percentage of the tiny
 [10:47:49]  <JohnFlux> *time
 [10:47:54]  <JohnFlux> compared to the actual blended blit
 [10:50:14]  <daniels> (plus, in some cases, the time taken to stall the gpu so the cpu can render to it.  even on uma, there's a complex cache flush dance in both directions.)
 [10:50:49]  <ajax> actually, i bet you could add this as another flag like EXA_TWO_BITBLT_DIRECTIONS
 [10:51:00]  <ajax> EXA_NO_HW_TRANSFORMS or something
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[10:57:10]  <MrCooper> actually, EXA migration is quite a bit more sophisticated now than always copying all pixmap contents back and forth :)
 [10:57:51]  <MrCooper> also, the default migration heuristic "smart" never uses the video RAM copy for software fallbacks (except for the screen pixmap, obviously)
 [10:57:57]  <MrCooper> err, "always"
 [10:57:58]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: ping
 [10:58:01]  <ajax> right.  it's really about making the contents in one domain or the other is authoritative.
 [10:58:15]  <MrCooper> right
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[11:01:13]  <MrCooper> so, if the scaling is done in software and the blending in hardware, and then the next operation on the destination is a fallback, that would be pretty bad migration wise
 [11:02:51]  <ajax> shouldn't you be able to check that with CheckComposite?
 [11:03:12]  <MrCooper> check what?
 [11:03:16]  <ajax> "the next operation"
 [11:03:39]  <MrCooper> how?
 [11:03:49]  <marcheu> crystall ballism !
 [11:03:52]  <ajax> oh, you mean the next _after_ you finish the hardware blend
 [11:03:58]  <MrCooper> right
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[11:06:53]  <ajax> no fixing that short of request batching i suppose.
 [11:07:34]  <marcheu> yeah, that would also buy you nothing in the case where you can accelerate all ops, and just globally slow you down
 [11:08:04]  <daniels> ajax: it's not wildly difficult
 [11:09:58]  <daniels> instead of calling in directly, just have a thread to pick up requests, which runs constantly, and a thread to do actual work, reading out of a request queue in memory.  not too bad that we don't have any real big requests in constant usage anymore.
 [11:10:13]  <daniels> then you can just walk the request queue to see if there's anything else around
 [11:10:41]  <daniels> this then lets you do cute things like coalescing updates ('you wanted to resize 5000 times? bugger all the intermediate steps, how about we try doing it once')
 [11:11:09]  <ajax> technically i don't think the protocol lets you do that.
 [11:11:16]  <ajax> or at least not as much as you'd like
 [11:11:53]  <ajax> give me a second to find the bible quote
 [11:12:55]  <daniels> (of course you'd have to bail on coalescing as soon as you hit another op involving the same drawable, etc)
 [11:14:36]  <ssp> It should certainly be possible to convert requests into a sequence of internal commands that were associated with the pixmap in question
 [11:15:08]  <ssp> That sequence could then be evaluated at the point where the pixels in the pixmap would become be used in a visible way
 [11:15:25]  <ajax> "                      The execution of a request includes validating all arguments, collecting all
 [11:15:28]  <ajax> data for any reply, and generating and queueing all required events.
 [11:15:31]  <ajax> "
 [11:16:04]  <ssp^ If you stored internal commands, you could think of it as just a fancy way of storing pixels
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[11:18:15]  <ajax> my reading of the above is that you'd be cheating pretty hard on the protocol if you tried to coalesce, say, resizes.
 [11:18:38]  <ajax> since you'd still need to generate all 5000 intermediate ConfigureNotifies
 [11:20:50]  <daniels> (sorry, was having a quick shower.)
 [11:21:01]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, that's fine
 [11:21:06]  <daniels> there are two ways out of this
 [11:21:26]  <daniels> one is that you generate all 5000 intermediate configurenotifies, while still only copying once, and doing one giant union expose at the end (if that's allowed)
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[11:22:29]  <daniels> two is that XFixesYesICanHandleCoalescedUpdates() sets pClient->coalesceWinUpdates = TRUE.  pWin->coalesceUpdates is FALSE by default, but you recalculate when the selection on a window changes.  if all pClient->coalesceWinUpdates = TRUE for people subscribed to events on this window, then pWin->coalesceUpdates = TRUE.
 [11:23:47]  <daniels> this way we don't have to have the WMs playing stupid games that are invalidated by xlib's inherent design flaws anyway.
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[11:25:14]  <daniels> of course, with the threaded deserialising, you're going to introduce lock contention if you just lock from beginning of request execution to end of request execution (as opposed from getting what you need and getting out), but in the worst case, you add a trivial overhead and reduce performance to what it was when it was strictly deserialise-handle-deserialise-handle-etc.
 [11:25:40]  <daniels> does this make any sense?
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[11:35:17]  <anholt> jcristau: oops, looks like I failed at pushing.  I need like a blink error message or something when I try to push a non-fast-forward
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[11:42:02]  <daniels> <marquee><blink>
 [11:43:54]  <MrCooper> git push || xmessage you suck
 [11:45:46]  <daniels> zenity, surely
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[12:57:39]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: pong
 [12:57:44]  <CosmicPenguin^ I found your problem
 [12:57:47]  <CosmicPenguin> but not the cause
 [12:57:48]  <erikg^ awesome
 [12:58:04]  <erikg> how's it go?
 [12:59:03]  <CosmicPenguin> in LXUpdateFUnc (lx_rotate.c:58), the fbGetDrawable() call is returning 0 for the pointer to the pixmap
 [12:59:23]  <CosmicPenguin> so the subsequent srcoffset math on line 109 was toasting us
 [12:59:47]  <erikg> oh!
 [13:00:08]  * erikg goes to see
 [13:00:18]  <CosmicPenguin> now, the question is..... why is the pointer 0?
 [13:00:27]  <CosmicPenguin> something changed upstream
 [13:01:04]  <erikg> sounds like it
 [13:03:20]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: out of curiosity, where is the code running into lx_wait_marker (in lx_exa.c)?
 [13:03:36]  <CosmicPenguin> its a exa hook - its called all over the place
 [13:03:41]  <erikg> oh, ok
 [13:04:21]  <erikg> i tried to find documentation about exa but didn't.  what exactly is it?
 [13:04:30]  <CosmicPenguin> and I'm not entirely sure if we even need to be doing the pixmap dance in the LXUpdateFuncin the first place
 [13:04:37]  <CosmicPenguin> I know where my buffer is
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[13:09:12]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: i'm getting:
 [13:09:13]  <erikg> in LXUpdateFunc
 [13:09:13]  <erikg> fbGetDrawable returns pShadow->drawable == 0x10100001
 [13:09:31]  <CosmicPenguin> okay, thats clearly wrong
 [13:09:40]  <erikg> yeah... what an odd number
 [13:09:48]  <CosmicPenguin> what is shaBits?
 [13:10:23]  <erikg> FbBits... any idea where that might be declared?
 [13:10:35]  <CosmicPenguin> grep is your riend
 [13:10:38]  <erikg> :}
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[13:13:12]  <erikg> from the xserver git tree... fb/fb.h
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[13:25:01]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: it's a CARD32/16...
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[13:28:15]  <CosmicPenguin> yeah - it should be a legitimate pointer
 [13:28:35]  <erikg> i'm checking the returns from fbGetDrawable now
 [13:28:50]  <CosmicPenguin> we set it in LXAllocShadow (or at least ,we think we do)
 [13:29:06]  <CosmicPenguin> now, if yours is returning 0x1010001, then that explains your crash
 [13:29:11]  <CosmicPenguin> the blit was happening in never never land
 [13:29:29]  <CosmicPenguin> mine returns 0, and the blit hits real memory, but clearly its wrong
 [13:29:33]  <CosmicPenguin> all FFs
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[13:36:02]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: you're not getting 0x10100001
 [13:36:03]  <erikg> ?
 [13:36:13]  <CosmicPenguin> no, shaBits is 0 for me
 [13:36:43]  <CosmicPenguin> mabye I have header incompatabilities
[13:36:47]  <erikg> hm.  maybe.
 [13:37:11]  <CosmicPenguin> I dunno - has PixmapPtr and friends changed drasitically lately?
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[13:40:09]  <erikg> i'm trying to figure that out
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[13:41:54]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: the long wiping of the display to white (takes >1s)... is that behavior related to the blitter?
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[13:42:42]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin:
[13:42:44]  <erikg> in LXUpdateFunc
 [13:42:44]  <erikg> fbGetDrawable returns pShadow->drawable == 0x10100001
 [13:42:44]  <erikg> fbGetDrawable returns shaBits == 0
 [13:42:44]  <erikg> fbGetDrawable returns shaStride == 600
 [13:42:46]  <erikg> fbGetDrawable returns shaBpp == 16
 [13:42:49]  <erikg> fbGetDrawable returns shaXoff == 0
 [13:43:09]  <erikg> also i'm running Hhttp://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=54593
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[13:46:34]  <ajax> huh.  xgc actually kinda useful.
 [13:46:40]  <CosmicPenguin> Yep - thats what I get too
 [13:46:59]  <CosmicPenguin> shaBits is the one that has gone south
[13:47:04]  <CosmicPenguin> for reasons that are unclear  to me
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[13:50:03]  <anholt> jcristau: is debian xorg packaging your project these days?
 [13:51:13]  <jcristau> my project?
 [13:51:28]  <anholt> should I complain to you?
 [13:51:34]  <jcristau> yes
 [13:51:51]  <anholt> could the package of xorg-macros somehow be findable with apt-cache search xorg-macros?
 [13:52:33]  <jcristau> i should fix that
 [13:52:33]  <anholt> since it doesn't get installed with build-dep xorg-server and the name (which I still don't remember) doesn't match the upstream name, I usually end up building it
 [13:52:41]  <jcristau> it's xutils-dev
 [13:52:48]  <anholt> blahhh
 [13:53:12]  <anholt> xorg-aclocal maybe?
 [13:53:37]  <jcristau> just mentioning the macros in the descriptions would help for apt-cache search
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[14:03:11]  <jcristau> anholt: as a bonus, xutils-dev gives you imake!! :)
 [14:03:35]  <anholt> /wrists
 [14:08:31]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: 2d7ba09dc4b5eff5dba8d7867f285111574b1737
 [14:08:43]  <erikg> oops.  git commit to xserver
 [14:10:00]  <CosmicPenguin> hmmm - that would splain things
 [14:10:06]  <CosmicPenguin> so what do we need to do?
 [14:10:19]  <erikg> dixLookupPrivate is being used now to return shaBits
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[14:10:33]  <erikg> first thing is to figure out what it did before that commit
 [14:11:50]  <jcristau> anholt: anyway, http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/app/xutils-dev.git;a=commit;h=469e00fc0492e9bc7fc481312f7d6fd91a6b387e
 [14:12:23]  <anholt^ \o/
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[14:16:46]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: look at the differences between that commit and 16f2b8892d9ebcef6410a675d10549043223f617
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[14:21:36]  <CosmicPenguin> okay, so clearly fbGetDrawable, or at least the version I have is bad
 [14:21:40]  <CosmicPenguin> and the version you have too, apparently
 [14:22:00]  <CosmicPenguin> because its used alot through the code - it doesn't seem to be deprecated to me
 [14:23:10]  <CosmicPenguin> Its lunch time - but i'm real close to just hacking it together
 [14:34:25]  <erikg^ what's your current approach?
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[14:40:58]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: seems very likely the problem starts in dixAllocatePrivate
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[15:28:18]  <jbarnes> is replying via email still busted at bugs.fdo?
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[15:28:27]  <jbarnes> I get "unknown encoding utf8" when I reply
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[15:41:01]  <jcristau> jbarnes: sounds like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413672 ?
 [15:42:05]  <jbarnes^ oh yeah sounds like it... what do we have to do to get it fixed at fdo?
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[15:45:14]  <jcristau> jbarnes: poke sitewranglers probably? email_in.pl is o-r so i can't check if it really is your problem though
 [15:45:37]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: leaving for the day
 [15:46:29]  <CosmicPenguin^ okay
 [15:48:13]  <jbarnes> jcristau: just filed a sitewranglers bug, should be easy to fix I guess, thanks
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[15:54:14]  <anholt> ~anholt/xserver boottime branch, or http://people.freedesktop.org/~anholt/xserver-boottime.diff <-- why is server startup slow?  find out
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[16:35:05]  <ssp> What the policy on ABI breaks and drivers end up being? Are you supposed to fix everything that breaks, or is that up to driver maintainers?
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[18:44:45]  <daniels> ajax: did you catch my rambling earlier?
 [18:45:14]  <ajax^ i might have, but then the shell server rebooted and took my scrollback with it
 [18:45:22]  <ajax> so let's just say no
 [18:46:05]  <daniels> ah
 [18:46:18]  <daniels> 16:21 < daniels> ajax: yeah, that's fine
 [18:46:18]  <daniels> 16:21 < daniels> ajax: there are two ways out of this
 [18:46:18]  <daniels> 16:21 < daniels> one is that you generate all 5000 intermediate configurenotifies, while still only copying once, and doing
[18:46:21]  <daniels>                  one giant union expose at the end (if that's allowed)
 [18:46:21]  <daniels> 16:22 < daniels> two is that XFixesYesICanHandleCoalescedUpdates() sets pClient->coalesceWinUpdates = TRUE. 
[18:46:25]  <daniels>                  pWin->coalesceUpdates is FALSE by default, but you recalculate when the selection on a window changes.  if
[18:46:28]  <daniels>                  all pClient->coalesceWinUpdates = TRUE for people subscribed to events on this window, then
[18:46:31]  <daniels>                  pWin->coalesceUpdates = TRUE.
 [18:46:34]  <daniels> 16:23 < daniels> this way we don't have to have the WMs playing stupid games that are invalidated by xlib's inherent design
[18:46:37]  <daniels>                  flaws anyway.
 [18:46:39]  <daniels> 16:25 < daniels> of course, with the threaded deserialising, you're going to introduce lock contention if you just lock from
[18:46:42]  <daniels>                  beginning of request execution to end of request execution (as opposed from getting what you need and
[18:46:45]  <daniels>                  getting out), but in the worst case, you add a trivial overhead and reduce performance to what it was when
[18:46:48]  <daniels>                  it was strictly deserialise-handle-deserialise-handle-etc.
 [18:46:51]  <daniels> 16:25 < daniels> does this make any sense?
 [18:46:53]  <daniels> (fin.)
 [18:47:12]  <drago01_> omg flood!
 [18:47:13]  <drago01_> ;)
 [18:48:47]  <ajax> that could work.
 [18:49:06]  <ajax> and really you don't need a second thread for continuously slurping the request queue in, we already read ahead iirc.
 [18:49:15]  <daniels^ how do we read ahead?
 [18:49:30]  <daniels> read() is only called as a direct precedent to requestVector[foo], iirc
 [18:52:38]  <ajax> bah, you may be right.
 [18:52:43]  <ajax> we certainly could do.
 [18:53:47]  <daniels> agreed.
 [18:54:02]  <daniels> someone should write this up on the wiki
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[19:04:21]  <ajax> why do we not have people just following us around taking note of our brilliance
 [19:07:09]  <airlied> clearly we need a street team
 [19:07:35]  <daniels> haha
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[19:11:57]  <ajax> i should blog about it
 [19:12:40]  <daniels> oh yeah, i have a blog
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[19:51:52]  <spstarr> the Xorg Posse ;p
 [19:52:01]  <spstarr> or Xorg Crew
 [19:56:34]  <ajax> sigh.
 [19:56:47]  <ajax> so now that i've deleted most of the obvious bullshit from libXfont
 [19:57:01]  <ajax> i'm left with needing to do a massive API rework
 [19:57:10]  <benh> is there anything left ?
 [19:57:11]  <benh> :-)
 [19:57:34]  <ajax> fair point.
 [19:57:45]  <ajax> i mean, it still implements core fonts, which isn't the best thing ever
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[19:57:59]  <benh> yeah
 [19:59:48]  <ajax> but i'm more offended by how it calls back into functions defined by the app it's linked against
 [19:59:51]  <ajax> DIRTY
 [20:00:17]  <ajax> this reminds me
 [20:00:23]  <ajax> i actually own dirty-like-zebra.net
 [20:00:34]  <ajax> (i think, possibly not hyphenated)
 [20:00:42]  <benh> hehe
 [20:00:43]  <whot> daniels: i've got a mouse that is a keyboard too if that is what you mean
 [20:00:52]  <ajax> i should rig up a cgi that just prints a single random source file
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[20:01:21]  <daniels> whot: hmm?
 [20:01:46]  <benh> a 105 buttons mouse ? :-)
 [20:02:12]  <whot> daniels: it has valuator, button and key input class
 [20:02:29]  <whot> benh: sort of. the multimedia keys of the keyboard are sent through the mouse' device file... yaya
 [20:02:45]  <benh> yeah, hw designers ...
 [20:02:47]  <daniels> whot: sure, but not multiple of each
 [20:02:59]  <daniels> multiple key classes are just crack afaict
 [20:04:35]  <whot^ ah, now I get it. there's devices that have both relative and absolute axis. which is bad, since they can't overlap
 [20:04:54]  <whot> so if you have a device that has both rel/abs x/y axis you're screwed.
 [20:05:26]  <whot> multiple key classes could get around the keycode > 255 problem
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[20:11:44]  <ajax> i think i've seen at least one with both rel/abs x/y
 [20:12:08]  <ajax> pretty sure that's how the sliders worked on the sides of the cintiq
 [20:12:35]  <whot> yeah, those are deactivated right now due to x server internal weirdnessss
 [20:12:40]  <ajax> and we should totally get you one of those
 [20:13:17]  <whot> i got one of them. sort of. not the hw, but the device announces having them.
 [20:16:44]  <ajax> i don't mean because you need one, i mean because they're sexy as hell
 [20:17:02]  <whot> the problem with those is that the driver can't tell the server whether it comes from the relative x-axis (i.e. no scaling) or the absolute one (i.e. scaling). and the server couldn't tell the client anyway, so we're left hanging.
 [20:17:09]  <whot> hehe
 [20:18:45]  <ajax> oh, rel/abs over the same field?
 [20:18:53]  <ajax> screwed
 [20:19:34]  <whot> no reason why we shouldn't be able to do it though
 [20:21:16]  <ajax> yeah i thought evdev coming out of the kernel had a provision for telling you which it was
 [20:21:49]  <whot> it does. X doesnt
 [20:22:07]  <ajax> we're so awesome
 [20:22:14]  <daniels> whot: yeah, except no-one implements multiple keyclasses, so we might as well just expand the keycode range in xkb and xi :)
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[20:22:36]  <daniels> whot: multiple valuator classes still don't get you around the rel/abs collision
 [20:23:11]  <whot> no. we'
 [20:23:33]  <whot> no, we'd need a axis number - axis id mapping like the kernel does
 [20:23:58]  <whot> but that can be done with one valuator class
 [20:24:15]  <daniels> tbh i don't think that's our biggest problem with input right now
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[20:25:19]  <whot> no, just one of the "nice to have" features.
 [20:26:16]  <daniels> rather
 [20:26:53]  <whot> though making axis labelling part of XI2 would be neat. gets rid of the forced 4/5 wheel button mapping, and allows dynamic axis assignment
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[20:28:14]  <daniels> sure
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[20:29:59]  <whot> but we could also solve that with properties anyway
 [20:34:44]  <daniels> indeed
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[20:50:41]  <malouin> Hello, xorg-devel.  I made a patch for my xorg mouse input driver to support a YAngleOffset option for "callibrating" trackballs... would this patch (or a similar one against the xorg development head) be valuable?
 [20:52:33]  <malouin> My local mouse(4x) manpage explains it like:
 [20:52:36]  <malouin> Option "YAngleOffset" "integer"
 [20:52:36]  <malouin> Similar to AngleOffset, specifies the offset (from 90 degrees) of the vertical axis.  This is useful for example in some trackballs in which the most comfortable horizontal and vertical angles are not generally 90 degrees apart.  Default: 0.
 [20:53:40]  <malouin> I didn't see any guidelines for submitting patches on the website, but maybe I didn't look hard enough.  If someone could point me to a link or someone to talk to, that would be great.
 [20:53:58]  <ajax> whot and daniels are pretty much the input cabal
 [20:54:06]  <malouin> ok, great.
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[02:29:07]  <whot> malouin: mail it to xorg@lists.freedesktop.org
 [02:35:18]  <whot> also, you may want to port it to xf86-input-evdev too
 [02:42:55]  <malouin^ neat.  Do you want a git-formatted patch, or would a diff -u work just as well?
 [02:43:13]  <whot^ in doubt, always git, makes life easier
 [02:43:22]  <malouin^ ok.
 [02:43:41]  <malouin> my version of evdev doesn't have an angleOffset option...
 [02:44:14]  <whot> see bug 16699 :)
 [02:44:14]  <malouin> I could port both into evdev, but I might be stepping on something that does the same thing in a different way...
 [02:44:26]  <whot^ no, you wouldnt. take it from me :)
 [02:44:36]  <malouin> ok, sweet.
 [02:45:49]  <whot^ for evdev anyway, look at the middle mouse button integration. I tried to keep it as much outside of the main code as possible, I'd prefer it if yours was the same
 [02:48:17]  <malouin> main code == xorg-core?
 [02:48:24]  <whot> evdev.c
 [02:49:03]  <whot> there's the core code of evdev, that provides the standard features. anything else should interfer with it little, over defined hooks to keep the main code readable.
 [02:49:18]  <malouin> ok, I see.
 [02:50:01]  <whot> defined hooks == whatever you make up, there's no driver-internal API.
 [02:50:22]  <malouin> ok, that makes sense.
 [02:51:45]  <malouin> whot: so I did run into one issue... as far as I can tell, in the mouse driver, the only thing that carries any kind of state is the MouseDevPtr, which is defined in the main xorg code... xf86OSmouse.h.
 [02:53:49]  <malouin> so this MouseDevRec has an angleOffset int, and it seems the most straitforward thing to do is add a yAngleOffset field to go along with it.
 [02:54:11]  <malouin> but of course then it touches what looks to me like a different codebase... is that a problem?
 [02:57:32]  <whot> oh, yeah. dunno off-hand actually. daniels did some removals, not sure if that got wiped too.
 [02:57:47]  <whot> one more reason why evdev is easier ;)
 [02:58:41]  <malouin> Ok, sounds like I need to get familiar with git and look at the newest code.
 [02:59:56]  <whot^ so, from a quick 20 seclook, MouseDevPtr has been removed from the server. it's not in the mouse driver yet, but I guess it'll be moved there - where it belongs anyway.
 [03:00:09]  <whot> if it is, then you can break it
 [03:00:15]  <malouin> ok, that sounds nicer.
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[03:05:42]  <malouin> so the git tip doesn't necessarily build I take it?
 [03:06:04]  <whot> correct
 [03:06:21]  <whot> well, if you're running xserver git master that is
 [03:14:51]  <malouin> Ok, thanks.  I'll see what I can do with this and maybe ask more questions in a day or so.
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[12:06:18]  <orki> airlied: Ping
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[12:07:28]  <orki> airlied: Figured out the cause (hopefully) of redhat bug 454117 (and probably some other GLX-related bugs as well).
 [12:09:15]  <orki> Anyone here familiar enough with glx/glxcmds.c to tell me which function is responsible to free a pixmap if the reference count goes to 0 in DoDestroyDrawable? It looks like the memory is leaked ...
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[15:28:22]  <jcristau> daniels: fwiw, iceweasel in sid has the cacert root ca builtin :)
 [15:34:45]  <daniels> yes, but iceweasel is already not firefox :P
 [15:35:12]  <jcristau> yup
 [15:35:39]  <daniels> i did notice that, thank god (wonder if ubuntu has it too? doubt it, since they still ship firefox branded as firefox, iirc) ... we're trying (well, about as well as we ever manage to sort anything out) to get a cacert certificate, but their process for organisations seems like it doesn't entirely exist yet :)
 [15:37:48]  <jcristau> hmm?
 [15:37:48]  <jcristau> subject=/CN=bugs.freedesktop.org
 [15:37:48]  <jcristau> issuer=/O=Root CA/OU=http://www.cacert.org/CN=CA Cert Signing Authority/emailAddress=support@cacert.org
 [15:40:33]  <daniels> ... oh
 [15:40:39]  <daniels> benjsc is more awesome than i thought.
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[18:35:47]  <math_b> Is post pci-rework Xserver supposed to compile for the sparc architecture ? (I fail to see how sparcPci.c can compile)
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[19:09:25]  <papillon81> to dberkholz or any other gentoo x11 guy: app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.6 from x11 overlay can not download the glext.h-40.bz2 file. it seems to be no longer available. please fix this
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[19:40:42]  <airlied> math_b: in theory sparcPCi shouldn't be needed.
 [19:41:39]  <math_b^ in theory libpciaccess should be used for pci access :)
 [19:42:50]  <spstarr> but... isn't it? ;)
 [19:42:55]  <math_b> in reality we have ix86Pci.c, sparcPci.c ...
 [19:43:17]  <spstarr^ more code for airlied  or ajax to rip out then :)
 [19:44:02]  <airlied+ yeah they should all disappear I think.
 [19:44:21]  <airlied> ask davem maybe I know he has sparc building with master.
 [19:45:24]  <math_b^ thanks, I will, as sparcPci.c is clearly in a pre pci-cleanup state
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[19:51:36]  <daniels> airlied: i had a quick poke around and i honestly don't understand the pciaccess port.  we still have code that roams sysfs.
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[19:54:35]  <airlied> daniels: we have lots of code that isn't linked to anything anymore also
[19:54:37]  <airlied> I think.
 [19:55:20]  <cjb> oh, video-sis broke
 [19:55:24]  <cjb> sis_driver.c:674: error: 'struct _ScrnInfoRec' has no member named 'HandleMessage'
 [19:55:51]  <cjb> daniels: any ideas on fixing mouse?
 [19:57:42]  <daniels> airlied: linuxPciInit() is definitely being called
 [19:58:00]  <daniels> cjb: send the dogs if i haven't done it tomorrow evening
 [19:58:12]  <cjb^ will do, thanks.  :)
 [19:58:21]  <daniels> as for sis, the HandleMessage stuff just needs to be axed
 [19:58:31]  <math_b> airlied: speaking of that lnxResource.c and bsdResource.c are dead
 [19:58:32]  <daniels> thanks for chasing me up about this; i am just being shit here
 [19:58:45]  <cjb> that's fine.  just a friendly prod.
 [19:58:48]  <daniels> math_b: they will be sadly missed
 [19:59:06]  <math_b^ I have no doubt
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[20:14:00]  <cjb> weird.  my first message to xorg@ didn't show up but its reply did.
 [20:14:38]  <cjb> oh.
 [20:14:39]  <cjb> 2008-07-20 01:07:32 1KKMNU-00057i-9C == xorg@lists.freedesktop.org routing defer
 [20:14:42]  <cjb> (-51): retry time not reached
 [20:14:52]  <cjb> ah.  greylisted, I bet.
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[21:11:49]  <cjb> haha
 [21:11:55]  <cjb> oops.
 [21:13:21]  <daniels> ?
 [21:14:30]  <cjb> the "haha" was the oops.
 [21:14:38]  <cjb> sorry.  laggy connection.
 [21:15:42]  <daniels> yarr
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[21:34:35]  <daniels> cjb: righto, tinderbox should be all pretty and green next time it kicks
 [21:35:24]  <cjb> Awesome.
 [21:38:19]  <daniels> in theory, that should also be backwards-compatible to old servers without changing a single loc
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[04:24:19]  <jcristau> math_b: post-pcirework does build on sparc. http://experimental.debian.net/fetch.php?&pkg=xorg-server&ver=2%3A1.4.99.905-1&arch=sparc&stamp=1216399725&file=log&as=raw
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[06:11:54]  <CE> are there plans to accalerate gradients, or at least fall back more gracefully?
 [06:12:21]  <CE> currently gradients are the performance-show-stopper for me
 [06:13:57]  <CE> the problem seems to be that compositing with a gradient source causes the dest to be moved out
 [06:14:22]  <CE> wouldn't it make more sence to move in the gradient into a temporary scratch surface?
 [06:16:39]  <stillunknown> If you get no answer, then MrCooper (when he returns) is typically well aware of EXA.
 [06:17:41]  <stillunknown> You may also consider making a patch yourself.
 [06:17:42]  <CE> I always feel sorry bothering him so much :-/
 [06:18:25]  <CE> ... I fear I am not experienced enough
 [06:18:50]  <CE> but I plan to get familiar with exa's source in two months or so
 [06:19:54]  <CE> i'll be here again later, thanks so far
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[06:25:08]  <stillunknown> delayed speaking of the devil
 [06:37:43]  <MrCooper> erikg: I'm late to the party, but FYI: the EXA core now sets the pixmap data pointer to NULL outside of exaPrepare/FinishAccess
 [06:39:52]  <stillunknown^ earlier there was someone here wondering why gradients were not uploaded to a temporary pixmap and then composited.
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[06:47:03]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: mostly because noone's done it
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[06:48:47]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: Is it just gradients or are all unsupported operations treated like that?
 [06:49:18]  <MrCooper> treated like what?
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[06:51:00]  <stillunknown> pulling the rest into the cpu domain, instead of the single thing into the gpu domain.
 [06:51:22]  <stillunknown> *instead of putting
 [06:52:50]  <MrCooper> where things are put is up to the migration heuristic
 [06:53:35]  <MrCooper> but yeah, usually it's either something can be accelerated or it's done in software, except for the exceptions of course :)
 [06:53:51]  <stillunknown> Now that i think of it, my question was not needed.
 [06:54:28]  <stillunknown> Because some "source material" has to be uploaded regardless of what happens later on.
 [06:54:28]  <CE> hi :)
 [06:55:00]  <CE> what i see in my profiles is that moving in is much cheaper than moving out
 [06:55:18]  <CE> would it be possible to upload the gradient to a scratch-surface?
 [06:55:50]  <CE> this way the fast path "down" could be used, and also wild migration of the dest surface could be avoided
 [06:56:27]  <CE> because even for a "simple" ui like this: http://bp1.blogger.com/_Y_-jaz-4d00/SH-uApxyXUI/AAAAAAAAATQ/d2KFJlJJ4Aw/s1600-h/netbeans.png
 [06:57:09]  <CE> is see ~50% of total time used of migrating pixmaps arround, which is reduced to almost zero when I disable gradients
 [06:58:34]  <MrCooper^ it sounds like you've looked into this deeper than anyone before :)
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[06:58:55]  <CE> ;)
 [06:59:16]  <MrCooper> obviously gradients and sold colour pictures could be handled better than currently
 [06:59:27]  <CE> in which way?
 [06:59:36]  <MrCooper> ideally they'd just be accelerated, but there may indeed be useful intermediate steps
 [07:00:31]  <MrCooper> for solid colour pictures, creating a 1x1 pixmap on demand should be easy, unless I'm missing something
 [07:01:03]  <CE> yes, I am already doing this in my code too - because I ran into some troubles when not doing so
 [07:01:16]  <stillunknown> For sufficiently small pixmaps host data transfers could avoid the need for nasty syncing.
 [07:02:05]  <MrCooper^ that's UploadToScreen, the problem is we're syncing globally instead of per pixmap
 [07:02:25]  <MrCooper> should be possible to fix that in a backwards compatible way if you're so inclined
 [07:02:39]  <stillunknown> I imagine that a gradient pixmap would be uploaded with UTS?
 [07:02:57]  <MrCooper> just like any pixmap, yes :)
 [07:03:02]  <CE> UTS?
 [07:03:09]  <stillunknown> Upload To Screen
 [07:03:15]  <CE> ah, thanks ;)
 [07:03:23]  <stillunknown> DFS = Download From Screen
 [07:03:56]  <stillunknown> host data transfer means you stash pixel data into your command buffer, meaning you don't have to sync between cpu and gpu
 [07:04:15]  <CE> ah, thanks for the explanation
 [07:05:00]  <CE> have to leave now ... sorry :-/
 [07:05:19]  <CE> hope you will be still here in 1-2h ^^
 [07:05:38]  <MrCooper> possibly
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[07:55:13]  <CE> hi again
 [07:58:38]  <CE> I could also work arround the gradient problems in my library myself
 [07:58:57]  <CE> drawing the gradient to a picture (which will never be migrated to vram)
 [07:59:02]  <CE> and use that one as source
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[07:59:26]  <CE> but ... it would slow down accalerated gradients once they are there
 [07:59:51]  <stillunknown^ why not fix it for everyone, and also, how does a pixmap that never ends up in vram help you?
 [08:00:42]  <CE> because I don't know howto do it, and I've a deadline on August 4th
 [08:01:02]  <CE> but later I can have a look at it ... would be interesting for sure :)
 [08:01:24]  <CE> however I guess it would hurt systems with direct adressability like TTM or GEM based drivers
 [08:01:40]  <stillunknown> That leaves the 2nd question unanswered.
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[08:02:08]  <CE> right ;)
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[08:03:07]  <CE> well, as far as i understand EXA it will be migrated to vram
 [08:03:24]  <CE> but no rendering happens to it in vram, therefor it will not be migrated to sysram
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[08:04:31]  <CE> because I only use it as source for composition (which should happen in vram)
 [08:04:41]  <stillunknown> Then what did you mean by:
 [08:04:42]  <stillunknown> CE> drawing the gradient to a picture (which will never be migrated to vram)
 [08:05:25]  <CE> well, that was wrong
 [08:05:46]  <CE> i ment that i never render to that picture except the gradient
 [08:05:55]  <CE> avoiding vram->sysram migrations
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[08:18:06]  <jcristau> whot: ping
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[09:29:04]  <CE> stillunknown: just finished my prototype, for my use-cases got a 5-10x speedup with gradients
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[10:18:27]  <jcristau> damn xquartz. breaks my distcheck.
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[13:41:42]  <arekm> huh, nvidia driver prefered over nv now in master
 [13:41:57]  <aaronp^ Only if it's installed.  Otherwise it falls back to nv.
 [13:42:28]  <ajax> i feel like i ought to be upset.
 [13:42:42]  <arekm> aaronp: sure but binary crap should be avoided
 [13:42:45]  <ajax> and i kind of am.  but not really enough to make a stink about it.
 [13:43:08]  <aaronp> So... don't install it then?
 [13:43:18]  <gravity> I'd like to be upset, but in reality this will save me *so* much pain when dealing with end users that it's worth it
 [13:44:20]  <arekm> next commit will be about fglrx
 [13:44:44]  <daniels> ... we are not doing this.
 [13:44:55]  <aaronp> I figure that since nvidia and fglrx aren't installed by default on any distro that I know of, this isn't really a functional change.
 [13:44:56]  * cjb puts the popcorn back.
 [13:45:25]  <daniels> aaronp: you're more than welcome to suggest this patch to distributions
 [13:45:30]  <aaronp> This just saves people who go to the trouble of installing those driver the trouble of creating an xorg.conf too.
 [13:45:42]  <aaronp> You guys should have spoken up when I asked if anyone objected last week...
 [13:45:49]  <daniels> if it was on irc, i wasn't around.
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[13:46:03]  <arekm> aaronp: will it work correctly if I have nvidia xorg driver but not kernel part? (I do). Will it fallback to nv?
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[13:46:26]  <aaronp> Why would you have that?? o_O
 [13:46:34]  <ajax^ to not taint the kernel, of course.
 [13:46:45]  <aaronp> It'll fail in PreInit then, which may be too late.
 [13:46:48]  <aaronp> I'll have to try it.
 [13:46:51]  * aaronp fires up the laptop.
 [13:46:59]  <daniels^ bear in mind that most people building from source will either be building a server that's unable to load your released drivers.
 [13:47:00]  <arekm+ because I'm changing kernel once per 2 days (building from git)
 [13:47:05]  <daniels> s/either //
 [13:47:23]  <aaronp^ In that case it definitely does fall back to nv.
 [13:47:46]  <daniels^ thus bringing the benefit to zero ...
 [13:47:52]  <daniels> nothing personal, but please do revert it.
 [13:47:58]  <aaronp> Wait, what?
 [13:48:00]  <ajax> like i said, i really don't care.  not a revert war i'm interested in.
 [13:48:05]  <aaronp> The benefit is definitely not zero.
 [13:48:38]  <daniels> ajax: i don't think anyone's interested in a revert war.  i tend to lose interest after the first.
 [13:49:50]  <ajax> binary drivers are a reality.  even outside that scope, we already have multiple drivers claiming the same pci ids.
 [13:49:51]  <stillunknown> Well at least make 12D2 default to nv ;-)
 [13:50:20]  <ajax> we could add some integer priority to all the drivers and then the binary driver would just advertise itself a lower priority.
 [13:50:29]  <gravity> I'd still like a general way of dealing with multiple conflicting drivers, rather than hardcoding preferenes in the server as a switch statement
 [13:50:46]  <aaronp> stillunknown: I thought I did.. did I push the wrong thing?
 [13:51:00]  <stillunknown> Oh sorry, i missed that.
 [13:51:14]  <ajax> gravity: certainly
 [13:51:44]  <stillunknown> Personally, the nvidia blob has blown up X during autodetect for me.
 [13:52:04]  <daniels> (noting also that there's no nvidia blob which supports any reasonable _range_ of cards.)
 [13:52:15]  <stillunknown> (an incompatible blob at the time i think)
 [13:52:19]  * gravity needs to have time to rebuild the stack so he can write up the driver priority thing
 [13:52:31]  <daniels> ajax: you're missing the subtle distinction between something that exists, and something that's actively supported.
 [13:53:23]  <daniels> reductio ad absurdum here because my headache's too blinding to pick a better example (i'm not comparing binary drivers to that, as i'm not rms), but drug trafficking is something that exists and that people are aware of.  it's not, however, actively supported ...
 [13:53:37]  <daniels> again, my apologies for the abysmal analogy.
 [13:53:46]  <ajax> yeah, would be pleasant if the legacy nvidia drivers would get a rebuild with unique names.
 [13:53:57]  <gravity> daniels: The amount of user support that goes in to dealing with that is pretty high though
 [13:54:12]  <daniels^ 'that' == ?
 [13:54:24]  <gravity^ The unsupported binary drivers
 [13:54:27]  <daniels> ajax: not to mention rebuilds that track our abi as we break it
 [13:54:29]  <daniels> gravity: rather
 [13:54:36]  <cjb> "Drug trafficking user support, please state the nature of your pharmaceutical emergency."
 [13:54:47]  <ajax> I'M JONESIN' REAL BAD MAN
 [13:54:53]  <daniels> gravity: but we do a fairly effective job of asking them to contact the vendors, as opposed to dealing with problems via xorg@.
 [13:55:09]  <gravity^ Well, downstream it's still an issue. I wish it wasn't, but it's there
 [13:55:12]  <daniels> 'if you've fallen into a k hole, please hold, and an operator will speak at you momentarily.'
 [13:55:41]  <gravity> BONG HITS DIDNT FIX MY X SERVER. HALP!
 [13:55:43]  <daniels^ a business i'm glad to be out of, in so many ways.  (except the one where i don't get to ship my own broken code, but the business is probably glad to have me out for the same reason.)
 [13:55:51]  <stillunknown> Anything that autostarts can be persieved as supported.
 [13:55:56]  <stillunknown> *percieved
 [13:55:58]  <gravity> heh
 [13:57:43]  <daniels> aaronp: in any case, it seems extremely odd to be doing it in master, where the driver stands the least chance of working.  (haven't we already broken abi relative to 1.5?)
 [13:57:52]  <aaronp> stillunknown: except it doesn't autostart, you still have to install the driver.
 [13:57:56]  <aaronp> No, the ABI still works.
 [14:00:16]  <daniels> point is that i'll be surprised if it doesn't break before we release.  so in a few months, we'll have a stable release where it will resume working.  and then master will break again, and etc.
 [14:00:23]  <daniels> i'm sure you're well aware of this. ;)
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[14:01:15]  <aaronp> daniels: Sure, and if it does, people get nv by default, and then when a new nvidia driver comes out that supports it, they can install that if they so desire.  I really don't think it'll be a problem.
 [14:01:49]  <gravity> Will the current code detect an ABI mismatch and not load the driver?
 [14:01:54]  <daniels> aaronp: except it implies that we support binary-only drivers, which we've so far been doing an extremely good job of avoiding.
 [14:02:18]  <aaronp> gravity: Yes.
 [14:02:19]  <gravity> And then recover, sorry. I know it'll fail to load
 [14:02:26]  <gravity> Cool, I should go find that.
 [14:02:53]  <marcheu> I'll just put in nouveau as a first choice. everyone's ok with that ?
 [14:02:55]  <cjb> daniels: makes sense to me.
 [14:03:41]  <jcristau> marcheu: makes sense to me
 [14:05:27]  <darktama+ you want people to murder you?!
 [14:07:18]  <marcheu^ this is why I keep changing the place where I live
 [14:08:08]  <daniels> i'm not exactly thrilled about it, but hey, if you think it works better than nv for most people and you can deal with the support load, whatever.
 [14:08:59]  <daniels> (but do get aaronp to agree, presumably well off the record.)
 [14:09:16]  <marcheu> hmm why does he have to agree ?
 [14:11:20]  <daniels> because my roots lie in the islands to the top-right of yours, so i still have this happy fantasy of everyone agreeing and getting along. ;)
 [14:11:25]  <daniels> s/top-right/top-left/
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[16:06:30]  <Primer> Hi, sorry for bringing my issues here, but no one has written a word in #xorg in what seems like days
 [16:06:47]  <Primer> Anyhow, is there any way to bypass hal and FORCE evdev for a mouse device?
 [16:07:39]  <Primer> I'm using Fedora's xorg, which is some pre 1.5
 [16:08:05]  <jcristau^ hal makes you use evdev anyway, doesn't it?
 [16:08:10]  <Primer> by default X loads the mouse as evdev, but it then uses ExplorerPS/2 protocol, which makes some buttons not work
 [16:08:26]  <Primer> it's an mx1000
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[16:08:53]  <daniels> jcristau: fedora have hal loading kbd + mouse
 [16:09:19]  <daniels> Primer: Option "NoAutoAddDevices" is one way, or you could edit the HAL FDI and make it use the evdev driver
 [16:09:28]  <Primer> ahhh yes
 [16:09:35]  <Primer> I remember the hal FDI method now
 [16:10:33]  <ajax> daniels: evdev should steal the device away from the mouse device though
 [16:14:01]  <Primer> I'm finding several examples of input.fdi
 [16:14:09]  <Primer> Is there a definitive one?
 [16:14:14]  <Primer> that forces evdev
 [16:16:44]  <ajax> i think you've misdiagnosed the problem.
 [16:17:35]  <daniels^ true
 [16:20:50]  <Primer> me?
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[16:21:17]  <drago01> wasn't the mx1000 issue fixed in evdev 2.0.2 ?
 [16:21:38]  <Primer> 2.0.1 here, it seems
 [16:21:50]  <ajax> i just pushed 2.0.2 i thought
 [16:22:13]  <drago01^ was about to ask you to do it ;)
 [16:22:15]  <ajax> hah, only to testing.
 [16:22:41]  <jcristau> btw, i got a bug report about mouse buttons that 'stopped working' when upgrading from evdev 1.2 to 2.0.x, because they're reported as 8 and 9 instead of 6 and 7
 [16:22:43]  <ajax> no feedback on it yet.  oh well.
 [16:22:50]  * ajax pushes the stable button
 [16:23:06]  <ajax> Primer: in the meantime, yum --enablerepo=fedora-testing upgrade xorg-x11-drv-evdev
 [16:23:18]  <Primer> excellent, thanks
 [16:23:33]  <drago01> s/fedora-testing/updates-testing/
 [16:23:40]  <ajax> what he said
 [16:23:50]  <ajax> jcristau: sigh.  buttons-as-axes was such a bad idea.
 [16:24:31]  <jcristau> should i tell the reporter to use xmodmap, or is that fixable somehow?
 [16:25:18]  <Primer> works :)
 [16:25:59]  <Primer> btw, one thing that seems not to work is X retaining the default mouse acceleration, which I set in ~/.xinitrc using xset m 0
 [16:26:22]  <ajax> jcristau: xmodmap probably the right plan
 [16:26:27]  <ajax> at least as a workaround
 [16:26:56]  <jcristau^ ok, thanks :/
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[16:30:25]  <daniels> Primer: that's more or less expected
 [16:30:50]  <daniels> it's only setting the acceleration on the core pointer, not the real one
 [16:31:05]  <daniels> in future server versions, slaves will inherit their master's settings, etc
 [16:31:25]  <Primer> I see
 [16:36:21]  <Primer> Is there any way to set the default acceleration other than using xset?
 [16:37:51]  <ajax> -a and -t options to the X server?
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[16:38:34]  <daniels> Primer: you could write a small application that runs as a daemon, listens for DevicePresenceNotify events, and sets useful acceleration on all newly-added devices
 [16:38:42]  <daniels> (as well as setting it on all existing ones during startup)
 [16:38:45]  * Primer mans
 [16:38:52]  <Primer> thanks again
 [16:39:16]  <daniels> np
 [16:39:17]  <daniels> http://people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/devicemon.c should help you on your way
 [16:39:34]  <daniels> then it'd be XChangeDeviceControl to change the acceleration
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[16:41:38]  <Primer> heh
 [16:41:49]  <Primer> now the xmodmap settings are reset
 [16:42:14]  <Primer> when I switch from back using the kvm
 [16:42:30]  <Primer> so it's both xset and xmodmap
 [16:43:02]  <Primer> what happened to using "Name" with evdev?
 [16:43:14]  <Primer> since the device path is so fickle in Linux
 [16:44:23]  <drago01> ?
 [16:44:48]  <Primer> Option "Name" "Logitech USB Receiver"
 [16:44:55]  <drago01> you can write an udev rules to have the device path you like
 [16:45:03]  <Primer> was all I ever needed before, to setup the device
 [16:45:27]  <jcristau> yeah that's gone from evdev. since the server can do hotplug.
 [16:46:52]  <Primer> I think I'm just going to force the noautoadd thing
 [16:47:20]  <Primer> because it seems that Xorg won't allow me to specify the mouse if it's already been grabbed
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[17:01:02]  <Primer> sigh
 [17:01:12]  <Primer> everything was fine with evdev before
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[17:01:26]  <Primer> it seems that it's since been gimped, not improved
 [17:01:55]  <Primer> now with noautoadddevices, X will not re-acquire it on kvm switch
 [17:09:09]  <airlied> revert it, its broken..
 [17:09:22]  <airlied> the legacy stuff will screw it up..
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[17:13:43]  <Primer> I guess an easy hack would be to run a scrip that runs xset and xmodmap as my user from udev
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[17:22:11]  <Primer> running the script from udev does nothing
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[17:42:23]  <daniels> Primer: the point was that evdev had its own hotplug infrastructure, which was bullshit
 [17:42:46]  <daniels> we outsourced this to some kind of system that knew all about devices (and even provided you with hotplug events) in a platform-independent manner, complete with properties and configuration
 [17:42:51]  <daniels> a hardware abstraction layer, if you will
 [17:43:09]  <daniels> you can write hal rules to set all kinds of things, if you like
 [17:43:26]  <daniels> e.g. you could write a match rule that matches on anything hte kernel exposes, and sets it to evdev, sets custom options, whatever
 [17:43:46]  <daniels> i believe input.x11.identifier = 'This Is My Awesome Mouse', will even set the name for you in X
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[17:48:04]  <gravity> input.x11.identifier = 'This is not my beautiful mouse! This is not my beautiful wife!'
 [17:50:10]  <daniels> i don't get the reference, but i laughed regardless; nice effort!
 [17:50:25]  <gravity> I fail
 [17:51:00]  <daniels> where's it from?
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[17:52:13]  <gravity> A Talking Heads song. 'Once in a lifetime'
 [17:52:32]  <gravity> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_in_a_Lifetime_(Talking_Heads_song)
 [17:54:40]  <daniels> nice
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[19:26:45]  <dberkholz> aaronp: wouldn't mind seeing your "prioritize nvidia" patch in 1.5 branch, and same for fglrx
 [19:28:00]  <dberkholz> although i see that other folks don't seem big on that on the list..
 [19:29:12]  <drago01> the static list seems broken anyway .... the server should decide based on the drivers installed and what they claim to support (after that we need to find a way how to deal with 2 or more drivers that support the same device)
 [19:30:02]  <gravity^ Priority numbers seem to be the preferred method
 [19:30:24]  <gravity> The other option is explicit named overrides followed by traversing the graph, but it's not as simple
 [19:31:39]  <drago01> yeah that would work ... that way vendors like nvidia and amd can make there drivers being autodetected when installed without adding any code that claims to "support"  them in xorg itself
[19:31:58]  <drago01> (the numbers not the named overrides)
 [19:32:16]  <airlied> but why should it magically give the closed drivers precendence?
 [19:32:18]  <gravity> Right
 [19:32:36]  <airlied> if you want closed drivers you can haz xorg.conf
 [19:32:40]  <gravity^ They'd obviously have to set their priority accordingly
 [19:32:43]  <airlied> it can have 3 lines in it.
 [19:32:59]  <airlied> gravity: but why should installing a package change my setup implicitly..
 [19:32:59]  <gravity^ I've been yelled at by so many users over the last few days when I suggest that
 [19:33:11]  <marcheu^ if each driver reports its own priotity, everyone will set 0xff and we're back to square one, except with more code
 [19:33:15]  <airlied+ deal with it...
[19:33:20]  <gravity^ We've pretty much forced the issue since I ripped the driver selection stuff out of our package scripts
 [19:33:49]  <airlied^ you need a stock, you are using nvidia drivers please contact aaronp@nvidia.com with your issues reply.
 [19:33:53]  <drago01^ I personlly don't really care but I don't see that a change that make life easier for users (even binary driver users without harming oss users) is that bad
 [19:33:53]  <gravity> marcheu: I know, but my hope is that we'd avoid the most pathological scenarios
 [19:34:13]  <gravity> My hope is that it'd be useful in less combatative scenarios too.
 [19:34:27]  <airlied> the problem is this is a tip of the iceberg stuff.
 [19:34:29]  <gravity> Like installing an updated driver that suddenly is worth using, or something similar
 [19:34:39]  <marcheu^ my view is you're overengineering something that'll be useless in the end...
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[19:34:44]  <airlied> we have to draw a line at some point or X.org won't have any non-binary drivers.
 [19:34:50]  <airlied> except what we have now..
 [19:35:09]  <gravity> marcheu: It's definitely not useless to the end user who just wants things to work
 [19:35:12]  <airlied> and then X will not be useful to anyone except on Nvidia/AMDs schedule..
 [19:35:23]  <airlied> so if distros want this, then distros can carry it.
 [19:35:32]  <airlied> but its isn't the X.org sample implementations jobs.
 [19:36:05]  <gravity> Note that we've also had this issue with ati and radeonhd
 [19:36:07]  <gravity> Both open
 [19:36:18]  <airlied^ exactly. and priority doesn't tell you anything there either.
 [19:36:25]  <airlied> so it becomes a distro problem..
 [19:36:27]  <marcheu> gravity: I'm ready to bet this is how thing will end. it's ovbious. as airlied said if your users want binary blobs they could use xorg.conf or you patch your xorg
 [19:36:48]  <drago01+ and how would you decide in this case? why prefer ati over radeonhd and vice versa
 [19:37:01]  <airlied> though quite why anyone would not use -ati is slightly beyond me..
 [19:37:01]  <marcheu> yup, provide means, not policy
 [19:37:12]  <gravity> drago01: I'd hope the respective maintainers would come to a conclusion. If they don't then it'd be up to the distros of course
 [19:37:13]  <drago01> airlied: the people writting radeonhd ;)
 [19:37:34]  <airlied^ I meant people who have to support a distro :)
 [19:37:35]  <drago01> *-t
 [19:37:37]  <whot> jcristau: pong
 [19:38:07]  <gravity> fwiw, I'm fine with not hardcoding the binary-only stuff in the server and leaving that to the distros. But I think having a mechanism where drivers can tell the server "Hey! I'm the best for the job! Load me!" is a Really Good Thing to have
 [19:38:23]  <airlied^ but as marcheu said who decides best?
 [19:38:30]  <gravity^ I'd like to think we're all adults
 [19:38:40]  <airlied^ still who decides it..
 [19:38:45]  <airlied> if I install nvidia legacy driver..
 [19:38:56]  <airlied> it'll attempt to get loaded on newer cards.
 [19:38:58]  <airlied> instead of nv.
 [19:39:14]  <gravity^ Then it's the user's problem. We've provided what mechanism we could to make it easy on the user
 [19:39:28]  <gravity> Currently we don't give them anything besides "edit your xorg.conf"
 [19:39:30]  <airlied^ its not the users problem if the nvidia put their driver as more important than all the others.
 [19:39:40]  <airlied> do you not have an installer to do that for them?
 [19:39:54]  <airlied> I thought the binary installers all did sed /nv/nvidia in xorg.conf
 [19:39:57]  <gravity^ It's against our policy to go mucking around in users' config files behind their back
 [19:40:10]  <gravity> I know that's not a popular thing, but it's expected in Debian
 [19:40:32]  <gravity> The nvidia package might do that, I don't know. I don't work on that one :-)
 [19:40:37]  <daniels> dberkholz: nvidia priority will not be merged to 1.5.
 [19:40:37]  <airlied> gravity: yeah we just don't ship binary drivers in Fedora.
 [19:40:53]  <daniels> dberkholz: that goes double for fglrx, since nvidia at least fucking works.
 [19:40:56]  <gravity> But for something like where we packaged avivo, and then wanted people to switch to radeonhd or ati, they had to do it all manually
 [19:41:19]  <gravity> airlied: I wish we were the same. Technically it's not "in Debian", but it's really splitting hairs there and we have to deal with it
 [19:41:43]  <airlied> really resolving the nvidia vs nvidia legacy issue hasn't been done by nvidia..
 [19:41:48]  <airlied> do you think they'll bother..
 [19:41:56]  <airlied> no because they don't give a shit about it.
 [19:42:09]  <airlied> so why are we making it easier for them not to give a shit?
 [19:42:17]  <gravity> I'm not on nvidia's side here at all. I do care about my users though.
 [19:42:26]  <airlied> ubuntu currently carries 3 nvidia drivers from what I know.
 [19:42:33]  <airlied> how the hell does having nvidia pick the right one?>
 [19:42:33]  <daniels> gravity: please don't let us stop you from shipping the patch.
 [19:42:46]  <gravity> Well, I'll avoid commenting on Ubuntu. They've got their own deal.
 [19:42:50]  <airlied> daniels: just don't mention it on debian-legal :)
 [19:43:07]  <daniels> gravity: it's up to you, julien, and the other xsf guys to do what you think is right for debian.  i'm sure you know my opinion by now. :)
 [19:43:13]  <gravity^ I'm fine with that option, but I'd still like a general priority system. The problem of conflicting drivers is orthogonal to binary-noly
 [19:43:30]  <drago01> airlied: afaik they become 4 drivers soon
 [19:43:38]  <airlied> gravity: priority doesn't make any senase.
 [19:43:44]  <airlied> I'm not sure how you think it might work.
 [19:43:46]  <daniels+ i'm equally keen on encouraging *chrome and radeonhd as i am on encouraging binary-only drivers.
 [19:43:58]  <gravity> airlied: How do decide which driver to load when you have several that support your hardware?
 [19:44:06]  <airlied^ the distro picks one.
 [19:44:09]  <gravity> daniels: Heh :-)
 [19:44:15]  <daniels> airlied: as people have said, unichrome and failchrome or whatever will both just set priority UINT_MAX and everyone loses.
 [19:44:17]  <airlied> gravity: there shoudln't be serveral drivers.
 [19:44:36]  <mjg59> The only real reason for having multiple drivers is something like nouveau
 [19:44:43]  <daniels> gravity: yeah, as dave said.  it _is_ the distro's job to pick one, though this is not, admittedly, one of debian's historical strengths. :)
 [19:44:45]  <mjg59> And that's certainly something you want people to have to enable manually
 [19:45:01]  <gravity> airlied: I agree, but there are several drivers. We'd like to be able to provide them all as options. If deprecating xorg.conf is a real goal like it's been for a while, then not having the distro specify a driver by writing a xorg.conf would be helpful
 [19:45:12]  <airlied^ but how else can you chose?
 [19:45:16]  <daniels+ how else are you going to specify it?
 [19:45:23]  <daniels> another config file that isn't called xorg.conf?
 [19:45:37]  <whot^ like .fdi files? :)
 [19:45:38]  <gravity> airlied daniels Ideally the server will just pick a good option at runtime. You can override it, but it should be able to pick one
 [19:45:40]  <airlied^ you seriously think the unichrome people would say out loud their driver in inferior to openchrome?
 [19:45:56]  <daniels> whot: touchbe.
 [19:46:15]  <aaronp> airlied: The driver checks the supported products in the probe routine.  The server *should* fall back to nv for unsupported chips, though I still need to make sure that works right.
 [19:46:16]  <aaronp> There's really no *technical* reason why people should have to create an xorg.conf ever.
 [19:46:24]  <drago01> what about doing it like the kernel? each driver claims to support pci id foo; bar; baz .. first loaded wins ... drivers can be blacklisted (like kernel modules) (ie.nvidia installer or rpm package that provides radeonhd can add a blacklist file)
 [19:46:36]  <marcheu> aaronp: well maybe because you push that change, and then we need it for nouveau ?
 [19:46:40]  <daniels> whot: (in all seriousness, the layout stuff is only there because non-x stuff needs it too.  the driver stuff is only there because i couldn't think of a better way.)
 [19:46:42]  <marcheu> that'd be the technical reason
 [19:47:54]  <airlied> drago01: or we could just use an xorg.conf
 [19:48:08]  <airlied> I fail to see the difference between a 3 line xorg.conf and another !xorg.conf file
 [19:48:13]  <airlied> with blacklists in it
 [19:48:41]  <drago01^ from a packging pov adding new files is the right thing to do (compared to editing! files)
 [19:48:47]  <whot> daniels: I don't have anything against HAL, it's in some ways way saner. looking at Fedora bugs, we certainly failed to communicate that we have two configuration files now
 [19:48:51]  <airlied> drago01: so someone should make xorg.conf.d :)
 [19:49:08]  <gravity^ I have a few requests for an xorg.conf.d actually
 [19:49:12]  <drago01+ yeah that would fix it ;)
 [19:49:35]  <airlied> really adding "nvidia" to the autoprobe isn't solving the problem of multiple drivers for the same hw.
 [19:49:49]  <gravity^ That's why I wanted the priority system, or something similar
 [19:49:58]  <airlied^ but we know a priority system can't work either.
 [19:50:05]  <gravity^ Apparently OSX has one
 [19:50:11]  <gravity> I don't know that for sure though
 [19:50:14]  <airlied^ unless you don't follow the *chorme* world.
 [19:50:21]  <gravity> heh
 [19:50:27]  <gravity> I avoid *chrome* at all costs
 [19:50:34]  <airlied^ seriously via vs openchrome vs unichrome..
 [19:50:43]  * drago01 likes airlied idea ... xorg.conf.d is the way to go
 [19:50:57]  <airlied> gravity: they can't even agree on getting the shittiest hardware in the world working.
 [19:51:04]  <gravity> Ha!
 [19:51:17]  <airlied> I don't think they'll agree on a priority system ..
 [19:51:32]  <gravity> Ok, well perhaps something that makes it easy for the distro to specify a priority then
 [19:51:49]  <airlied> but really its a distro problem I'm happy for something that we can use for more than nvidia stuff.
 [19:52:02]  <gravity> So we can trivially choose what to do about binary-only as well as open drivers
 [19:52:05]  <airlied> but it needs to be not an easily riggable priority system.
 [19:52:28]  <marcheu> #ifdef I_HATE_FREEDOM
 [19:52:31]  <airlied> maybe Fedora has it easier..
 [19:52:38]  <airlied> we make decisions for the users.
 [19:52:43]  <airlied> instead of having them give a shit..
 [19:52:46]  <airlied> its like the future.
 [19:53:29]  <drago01^ lets add an anaconda screen "which x driver to use" (going back to rl 8.0 days)
 [19:55:29]  <airlied^ well we just give you openchrome and -ati..
 [19:55:41]  <airlied> if you want other stuff install the package and edit the xorg.conf
 [19:56:08]  <drago01^ I wasn't seroius ;)
 [19:57:17]  <daniels> whot: yeah, i really fucked up on the documentation front.
 [19:58:03]  <airlied> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html
 [19:58:13]  <airlied> btw for why Fedora rocks, you all need an ajax :)
 [19:58:31]  <drago01^ btw any idea about rh #448171 ?
 [19:58:52]  <daniels> for those of you who are desperately waiting for the mail servers to deliver you my glorious reply, renaming nvidia to nv would fix this problem completely
 [19:58:57]  <daniels> after all, not much difference between four nvidia_drv.so and five nv_drv.so.
 [19:59:23]  * aaronp rolls his eye
 [19:59:23]  <aaronp> s
 [19:59:31]  <marcheu> hehe, are we going to see aaaaa_nvidia_drv.so now ?
 [19:59:43]  <daniels> aaronp: i'm not being facetious.
 [20:00:53]  <airlied> drago01: nothing comes to mind, except IGP uggh..
 [20:02:09]  <drago01^ hmm.. ok .. will ask him if its still present with a fully updated system
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[20:13:36]  <drago01> daniels, mjg59 : did you decide on what to do  about the volume key stuff?
 [20:13:53]  <daniels^ hm?
 [20:14:24]  <drago01> "volume key stuff" = mjg59's patch that deals with weird keys that keep sending a keypress event
 [20:15:43]  <drago01> daniels: the "Disable auto repeat for non standard keys?" thread on the ml
 [20:16:28]  <mjg59> Ah, no, I was still going to look at doing that upstream at some point
 [20:16:54]  <drago01> ok
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[22:03:11]  <Primer> no matter what I do, whenever udev runs its script, which runs xset and xmodmap when my mouse re-connects (from a KVM), even though xset and xmodmap exit 0, the mouse acceleration and xmodmap settings do not change
 [22:03:22]  <Primer> when I run it manually, it works
 [22:03:26]  <Primer> even as root
 [22:03:39]  <Primer> which is what udev is running it as
 [22:03:45]  <Primer> xset -display :0.0
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[22:35:36]  <daniels> Primer: are you sure it's been added to x by that stage?
 [22:35:57]  <daniels> remember it's udev -> hal -> xserver.  if you run the script at udev time, it's almost certainly going to win the race.
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[23:18:51]  <Primer> that'd be the only thing that explains it
 [23:19:15]  <Primer> I'm not quite sure hot to make the script run in the background with a sleep from udev
 [23:19:32]  <Primer> so udev can kick it off into the bg, then by the time it runs, X sees it
 [23:20:38]  <Primer> but yeah, what you wrote is entirely correct. Tailing /var/log/Xorg.0.log and the log file of my script shows my script ending, then X seeing it
 [23:22:55]  <Primer> guess I could make the initial script call the other script
 [23:23:48]  <whot^ start a little daemon that listens for DevicePresenceNotify events and terminates after doing what it needs to do
 [23:24:05]  <daniels^ that was my suggestion
 [23:26:05]  <whot> ah, ok. Primer, do what he says then :)
 [23:26:35]  <Primer> except he sent me a .c file
 [23:26:40]  <Primer> heh
 [23:26:51]  <Primer> and I figured this would be a simpler thing
 [23:26:59]  <Primer> this is working
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[23:30:17]  <whot> daniels: did you have a chance to look at 15133
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[23:39:29]  <daniels> whot: yeah, and your analysis is entirely correct ... but.
 [23:40:09]  <daniels> _XkbFilterControls is only ever called when you get a SetControls action.  which means that either a) the map's screwed, or b) somehow numlock's getting interpreted at the second level.
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[23:40:46]  <daniels> whot: if you can reproduce it, set debugging there to tell you what the level is.  if it's 1, you've got a fucked map.  if it's 2 ... well, presumably it shouldn't be.
 [23:43:52]  <whot^ key <NMLK> { [ Num_Lock, Pointer_EnableKeys ]}; says the map
 [23:44:42]  <daniels> rather.
 [23:44:51]  <daniels> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15133#c8
 [23:45:11]  <airlied^ its ctrl+shift+numlock
 [23:45:19]  <airlied> not just shift+numlock from memory.
 [23:45:27]  <airlied> and it happens with F9 just by pressing numlock
 [23:45:52]  <daniels> cute
 [23:46:05]  <whot^ well, the interesting thing is that you can't turn it off though -> i.e. even if enabled_ctrls is unset it activates
 [23:46:07]  <airlied+ I have another 4 letter word for it
 [23:46:26]  <airlied> whot: wierdly hitting ctrl-shift-numlock on F9 makes things go back to default
 [23:46:27]  <daniels> well, it'd be cool to dump out the entire XkbStateRec when that happens.  not being funny or anything, but i don't think i have a full keyboard that isn't at work, and i'm trying to pretend i'm actually on holiday.  i haven't even checked my email or anything.
 [23:46:29]  <airlied> so numlock works.
 [23:46:36]  <daniels> whot: mmm, that's bad.
 [23:47:09]  <whot^ yeah, it's this weird bitflipping, even if both VCK and the device have it unset it reactivates
 [23:47:28]  <daniels^ heh.  'course.
 [23:47:32]  <whot^ (that is with Shift+Numlock)
 [23:48:31]  <daniels> oh, hang on, the device definitely has it unset? bonghits.
 [23:48:58]  <daniels> it's 0648 though, i think i'm going to finish this episode of spooks and sleep on it.  can i get back to you tomorrow?
 [23:49:14]  <whot^ (enabled_ctrl & change) == 0
 [23:49:17]  <whot> sure
 [23:49:43]  <daniels> rockin.  thanks.
 [23:50:12]  <daniels> fwiw, the following in FixUpAction should take care of it:
 [23:50:13]  <daniels>     if (XkbIsPtrAction(act)&&(!(xkb->ctrls->enabled_ctrls&XkbMouseKeysMask))) {
 [23:50:16]  <daniels>         fake.type = XkbSA_NoAction;
 [23:50:19]  <daniels>         return fake;
 [23:50:21]  <daniels>     }
 [23:50:31]  <whot> thx
 [23:50:34]  <daniels> you _are_ sure that enabled_ctrls on both the VCK and the device doesn't have MouseKeysMask, yeah?
 [23:51:12]  <whot> I spent one afternoon debugging it, so pretty sure.
 [23:51:15]  <daniels> admittedly it is ridiculously goofy that we just never enter mousekeys mode, but my rough suspicion is that enabled_ctrls on the device still says mousekeys are okay.
 [23:51:18]  <daniels> hmm, okay.
 [23:51:22]  <daniels> speak to you tomorrow then. :)
 [23:51:32]  <whot> i'll check it again, just to be sure though
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[01:20:53]  <whot> airlied: ping
 [01:24:12]  <airlied^ hey.
 [01:24:34]  <whot^ hey. following up on the numlock bug. what happens in F9?
 [01:24:47]  <whot> my F9 box doesn't have a numlock key...
 [01:25:37]  <airlied^ logged into gnome, hitting numlock gives me mousekeys
 [01:25:54]  <airlied> hitting it again goes back to normal.
 [01:26:14]  <airlied> hitting numlock then hitting crtl-shift-numlock gives real numlock
 [01:26:19]  <airlied> and from then on numlock toggles normally
 [01:26:32]  <airlied> so either gdm or gnome or X is getting it wrong at startup.
 [01:26:50]  <whot> can you pastebin the xev output from hitting numlock after startup?
 [01:26:59]  <airlied> I'm not sure if I tested it with naked X + xterm
 [01:27:18]  <airlied> whot: lemme boot laptop, don't want to break my logged in session :)
 [01:30:26]  <airlied> doh laptop of course has no numlock..
[01:34:02]  <airlied> whot: now of course it won't happen for me :)
 [01:34:39]  <whot> ever happened before on that laptop?
 [01:34:47]  <whot> might be some combination of gnome settings
 [01:35:23]  <airlied> I just tried on my desktop.
 [01:35:29]  <airlied> and it definitely happend on it.
 [01:35:31]  <airlied> and now it doesn't.
 [01:36:02]  <airlied> I linked the RH bugs numbers to find someone else who had it.
 [01:37:07]  <airlied> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450797
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[01:37:21]  <whot> merci
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[01:38:26]  <whot> haha. I love bug reports with "expected results: numbers should appear" or "mouse should move"
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[01:40:18]  <airlied> hehe. expected results: get stoned, actual results: whitener.
 [01:41:12]  <airlied> actual results: xkb.
 [01:41:24]  <whot> hehe
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[01:54:16]  <whot> airlied: so, xorg.log says a build date of july 1. ever have it happened since?
 [01:54:49]  <whot> god, this keyboard is awful
 [01:56:12]  <airlied^ not sure.. I think I tested it a couple of weeks ago.
 [01:56:17]  <airlied> but I've dont an F9 updated on this machine since.
 [01:56:21]  <airlied> done even.
 [02:04:20]  <whot> hmm, can't find anything in the logs that suggests it has been fixed
 [02:04:54]  <airlied> maybe gdm fixed it :)
 [02:05:06]  <airlied> it might have been something since they added accessiblity support to gdm
 [02:07:09]  <whot> maybe, I have no idea. but the xserver part looks fine
 [02:07:58]  <airlied^ ask on the bug if they can upgrade to latest F9 bits and retest.
 [02:08:07]  <airlied> it was jgarzik that poked me about it originally
 [02:09:01]  <whot> yeah, filling the bugreport out right now
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[03:26:48]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:08:43]  <whot> daniels: btw, don't worry about 15133 for now, I mis-read the specs/code.
 [05:10:28]  <Dodji> fuck, I have hundreds of xorg emails to catch up with
 [05:10:30]  * Dodji sighs
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[05:35:44]  <wereHamster> I'm having problems with xrandr rotation. `xrandr --output XXX --rotate left` always returns "xrandr: Configure crtc 0/1 failed", I know it used to work a few months ago. I have the latest drm/intel driver, i965 chipset
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[05:43:41]  <wereHamster> the virtual size is definitely large enough to handle the rotation: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1200, maximum 4096 x 1920
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[05:48:20]  <bullgard4> My driver is i915
 [05:48:39]  <bullgard4> err, wrong channel.
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[06:05:11]  <daniels> whot: hm?
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[06:38:22]  <johnflux> daniels: what was the fix again for when xserver crashes because it can't find font 'cursor' ?
 [06:38:28]  <johnflux> kdrive   I mean
 [06:38:48]  <daniels^ --enable-builtin-fonts, unless it starts up okay, and then crashes when a client connects and then disconnects
 [06:39:11]  <johnflux> daniels:yeah it crashes when a client disconnects
 [06:39:27]  <daniels> yeah ... just keep a client running for the moment
 [06:39:36]  <daniels> i thought dodji fixed that a while back
 [06:39:45]  <daniels> you could also start with -noreset
 [06:40:01]  <johnflux^ yeah I thought so too.  i think i upgraded one of the packages specifically
 [06:40:18]  <johnflux> ah -noreset  helps
 [06:40:31]  <johnflux> daniels: what does noreset do exactly? :)
 [06:42:25]  <daniels> normally when the last client has quit, the x server regenerates, which basically means tearing everything down and back up again
 [06:42:34]  <daniels> consider it a really shit version of session support
 [06:43:10]  <MrCooper> wasn't part of the fix for that in libXfont?
 [06:45:00]  <daniels> all of it
 [06:45:20]  <johnflux> I did upgrade Xfont..  hmm
 [06:46:22]  <johnflux> if I don't use -noreset, it crashes with Xsgx but doesn't crash with Xfbdev
 [06:46:50]  <johnflux> daniels: am I supposed to handle a 'reset' in the accelerated hooks?
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[06:47:25]  <Dodji> JohnFlux, what is Xsgx ?
 [06:47:42]  <JohnFlux^ kdrive with acceleration for an 'sgx' chip
 [06:47:54]  <JohnFlux> my job is to write xrender accelerate for sgx
 [06:47:59]  <JohnFlux> *acceleration
[06:48:10]  <Dodji> 'kay so you might be linking to the wrong Xfont in Xsgx then
 [06:48:13]  <Dodji> or something like that
 [06:48:28]  <Dodji> you should not experience the "crash on reset" thingy anymore.
 [06:48:39]  <JohnFlux> hmm.  can't see how... they compile together
[06:48:40]  <Dodji> unless that's a new bug or something
 [06:48:46]  <JohnFlux> but then the build system I have is so horrible..
 [06:48:47]  <JohnFlux> :-)
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[06:51:39]  <daniels> JohnFlux: i'd try ldd on Xsgx and Xfbdev to see if they do link to the same libXfont
 [06:51:46]  <daniels> i wouldn't put anything past your build system
 [06:54:13]  <JohnFlux^ ah i didn't think of that - thanks
 [07:21:34]  <whot+ I misunderstood the meaning of enabled_ctrls, hence what I thought was broken actually worked according to the specs.
 [07:22:08]  <daniels^ hm?
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[07:22:36]  <whot> daniels: nevermind :)
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[08:48:47]  <whot> MrCooper: http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/0001-dix-fix-up-enter-leave-system-once-again.patch
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[09:36:09]  <MrCooper> whot: I think you meant to point that out to someone else :)
 [09:37:30]  <whot^ nope, present for you (gitk focus issues)
 [09:37:44]  <MrCooper> ah
 [09:38:38]  <MrCooper> so you want me to test it?
 [09:38:57]  <whot^ yes please. seems to work ok here, but I'm not 100% sure about it yet.
 [09:39:04]  <whot> won't push it for a couple of days
 [09:39:14]  <whot> anyway, off to bed for me
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[09:48:22]  <orki> airlied: ping
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[09:55:15]  <orki> In glxcmds.c, what happens when the refcnt of a pixmap goes to 0? With git head, I see that the memory is leaked.
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[10:11:47]  <drago01> agd5f, airlied : does the radeon driver use any kind of texture compression by default?
 [10:12:03]  <agd5f^ no
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[10:12:44]  <drago01> agd5f: ok, trying to debug this https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=448171 but with no hw its not easy ;)
 [10:13:12]  <glisse+ btw what is the status of this ipthings ? should it be legal to use the hw support for it without having software to decode or encode it ?
 [10:13:27]  <glisse> i think only the s3tc encoder is patented
 [10:13:30]  <glisse> not the format
 [10:13:36]  <glisse> algorithm
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[10:18:00]  <agd5f> drago01: I don't think that has anything to do with texture compression
 [10:19:00]  <drago01^ err... s/texture/framebuffer/ (the intel driver has such an option which caused artifatcs too)
 [10:19:30]  <agd5f^ framebuffer compression isn't supported yet on our hw
 [10:19:44]  <drago01^ ok
 [10:19:56]  <agd5f> and it's not supported on IGP340M hw anyway
 [10:20:37]  <drago01> any idea whats going on?
[10:20:51]  <drago01> or might be causing this
 [10:21:08]  <agd5f> looks like a stride issue in the 3D driver
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[10:28:22]  <drago01> ...ok
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[10:35:24]  <johnflux> Hey all
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[10:37:36]  <JohnFlux> daniels: libX11/src/util/makekeys.c  include X.h, which is in ../../../xproto/X.h    but that path isn't included in the X11_CFLAGS  (it is set to   -I../../src -I../../include/X11   )
 [10:41:29]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [10:41:36]  <JohnFlux> nm, i'll investigate more
 [10:44:24]  * benjsc announces just letting you know gitweb.fd.o is now just a pointer to cgit, all old links pointing to gitweb *should* be correctly redirected
 [10:44:59]  <krh^ heh, cool
 [10:46:03]  <benjsc^ I've shifted cgit on annarchy and updated to latest cgit - many thanks for running it for so long
 [10:46:19]  <drago01> can someone fix cgit to show the git::// url ?
[10:46:49]  <ajax> benjsc: nice, thanks!
 [10:47:04]  <benjsc^ you should checkout the redirect rules for it :)
 [10:47:07]  <krh^ yeah, very nice
 [10:49:35]  <benjsc> drago01: must be http, git:// is a very different protocol
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[10:50:37]  <drago01> benjsc: thats not what I was talking about ... gitweb showed me a git:// url that I could just copy and use git clone ... (was the only reason why I sometimes used gitweb before)
 [10:50:47]  <JohnFlux> how are you guys finding git btw?
 [10:51:00]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to decide whether to push to updade to svn or to git
 [10:51:11]  <JohnFlux> I'm worried that git might be too complicated for managers to use :-D
 [10:53:51]  <benjsc> drago01: ah, I understand.. please file a bug in freedesktop.org product and I'll make sure it appears again
 [10:54:19]  <drago01^ ok
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[10:55:20]  <benjsc> JohnFlux: both have their + & -'s depends on the managers I guess. Git just rocks for distributed work and the toolset is excellent. svn works well in a centralized nature. s
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[10:58:45]  <drago01> benjsc: filled 16794
 [10:59:03]  <benjsc^ thx
 [10:59:08]  <drago01> np
 [10:59:40]  <ajax> JohnFlux: honestly people who complain about the complexity of git, while they may have a legitimate complaint about the stock documentation, haven't taken the effort to search for one of the actually comprehensible howtos
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[11:01:12]  <JohnFlux> ajax: I need it to be moron proof
 [11:01:39]  <krh^ and note, when people tout svn's good fit as a centralized vcs, git will do the same job better
 [11:01:53]  <ajax+ what do your managers need to do?
 [11:02:51]  <krh+ you can have pretty much the exact same workflow with a centralized git repo as with svn, except with git it will be faster and allow people who want to use git's decentralized features to do so
 [11:03:04]  <JohnFlux> ajax: I guess..  be able to click a few buttons to create a branch that can be sent to the customers
 [11:03:43]  <JohnFlux> nothing that can't be fixed with a couple of visual basic programs I guess :-D
 [11:03:57]  <JohnFlux> hmm, actually does git has a windows interface?
 [11:04:18]  <JohnFlux> google says sorta, but experimental..  I thinik
 [11:04:38]  <JohnFlux> i think I'll probably push to upgrade to svn
 [11:04:39]  <benjsc> krh: git still struggles with huge repos
 [11:04:47]  <JohnFlux> it should be better than the current plan to upgrade to cvs
 [11:05:06]  <krh> benjsc: you mean like kde?
 [11:05:18]  <ajax> git checkout -b fixes-for-initech-0.1 (commit to branch from) ; for i in fixes-to-integrate ; do git cherry-pick $i ; ...
 [11:05:22]  <benjsc> krh: I was thinking more like freebsd src tree
 [11:05:31]  <JohnFlux> KDE also struggles on git
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[11:05:45]  <JohnFlux> (at least, putting all of KDE in a single repos)
 [11:05:59]  <benjsc^ git's windows interface is command line via cgin
 [11:05:59]  <stillunknown+ git is supposedly slow on windows
 [11:06:02]  <krh> benjsc: right, sort of the same situation... they should be split into separate repos, imo
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[11:06:33]  <JohnFlux> krh: for kde, i'm not sure how that will work out socially.  it's really nice having all the code in one place
 [11:06:35]  <benjsc+ That's the whole point. There is a good reason it's not. Cross repo commits under git don't work
 [11:07:02]  <JohnFlux^ you mean like moving code from one repos to another repos?
 [11:08:07]  <benjsc^ To break up the repo you'ld break userland / kernel land up. Then you lose history when a commit touches both. It's just harder to track with git. Don't get me wrong, git rocks, but things like svn still has it's place
 [11:09:16]  <JohnFlux^ *nod* - same thing in kde
 [11:09:23]  <JohnFlux> well, perhaps not quite the same
 [11:09:57]  <ajax> this is reminding me to hunt down a clearcase license so i can get the old xc history imported into git
 [11:10:00]  <krh> benjsc: but you'll still have to do cvs up in all modules
 [11:10:25]  <krh> oh, right, cvs lets you do sparse checkouts
 [11:10:48]  <benjsc^ fwiw the src tree for FBSD has now shifted to svn
 [11:11:11]  <krh> ok
 [11:12:40]  <ajax> away from perforce
 [11:12:47]  <ajax> i'm not sure whether that's an upgrade or not
 [11:13:58]  <benjsc^ yeah.. it was the commercial license thing that prevented perforce as the main vcs
 [11:14:30]  <ajax> perforce does the bitkeeper thing of freebie licenses for open source projects
 [11:14:37]  <ajax> (i'm fairly sure)
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[11:17:31]  <JohnFlux> benjsc: from CVS?
 [11:19:26]  <benjsc^ shift was cvs -> svn, some non mainstream stuff is in perforce
 [11:20:05]  <JohnFlux> cool
 [11:20:17]  <JohnFlux> benjsc: do you remember how long it took?
 [11:20:20]  <JohnFlux> benjsc:how much work?
 [11:21:26]  <JohnFlux> makekeys.c   includes "X11/X.h"   which, afaics, doesn't exist in the source code
 [11:21:52]  <JohnFlux> afaics, makekeys.c  cannot compile without X already being installed.. which is confusing
 [11:22:00]  <JohnFlux> there is a xproto/X.h 
[11:22:12]  <JohnFlux> ditto for Xos.h
 [11:27:27]  <ajax> isn't makekeys a solarisism
 [11:27:28]  <ajax> ?
 [11:28:07]  <jcristau> JohnFlux: you need xproto installed, yes
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[11:30:31]  <JohnFlux> jcristau: right, but shouldn't I be able to just make it all before I make install anything?
 [11:30:36]  <ajax> no.
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[11:30:41]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [11:31:13]  <ajax> to pick an example: xdpyinfo info has to link against libX11.  how is it going to do so unless libX11 is installed?
 [11:31:45]  <JohnFlux> that's in apps, no?
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[11:32:36]  <JohnFlux> ajax: at the moment we have "make" compile all the x11 libraries, and "make install"  then install all the libraries
 [11:32:44]  <JohnFlux> the only thing that breaks is makekeys
 [11:32:57]  <JohnFlux> I'm wondering whether to patch makekeys to change  <x11/X.h>  to <X.h>
 [11:33:02]  <JohnFlux> makekeys.c
 [11:33:09]  <ajax> could be, but that seems like an unlikely statement
 [11:33:17]  <ajax> libXext has to link against libX11, for example
 [11:33:48]  <JohnFlux^ right, but I think it can find it in the build tree
 [11:33:52]  <JohnFlux> rather than installed
 [11:33:58]  <jcristau^ that change would be wrong.
 [11:34:17]  <jcristau> because then it wouldn't work with xproto installed
 [11:35:38]  <JohnFlux^ true hmm
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[11:48:51]  <ajax> i love you, pdftotext
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[11:50:54]  <anholt> xit
 [11:51:29]  <anholt> hmm.  linux drivers for the touchpad are more sensitive to taps it feels like.
 [11:51:45]  <ajax> the tap threshold is pretty light, yeah
 [11:53:25]  <anholt> I can see why people care about configuration for synaptics.  these defaults are pretty painful.
 [11:57:11]  <mjg59> We should get whot to bang in input properties support
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[12:03:08]  <JohnFlux> jcristau: okay I basically worked out that I needed to pass the install directory through to makekeys :-)
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[12:11:02]  <vignatti> so nice to see intel people blogging their things..
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[12:15:00]  <dr-xorg> /part
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[12:17:32]  <JohnFlux> vignatti: i can't imagine my company agreeing to that
 [12:17:47]  <JohnFlux> daniels: how did you get intel to give you permission to blog? :)
 [12:17:57]  <anholt^ daniels doesn't work for intel
 [12:18:04]  <anholt> but we didn't need to get any permission
 [12:18:50]  <ajax> yay, i can extract the dmt modes from the spec with a very small python script.
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[12:36:24]  <murrant> what is the proper way to figure out which screen is being resized from an RRScreenChangeNotify event?
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[14:46:50]  <orki> airlied: ping
 [14:51:02]  <orki> Could one of you verify the validity of the following (complete & utter hack) fix for memory leak in GLX destroy drawable that makes kwin desktop effects almost unusable (see, e.g., https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=454117 among other bug reports): http://rafb.net/p/SReHKY28.html
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[14:54:28]  <krh> orki: it does look like maybe kde doesn't free the pixmap it uses
 [14:55:04]  <orki^ I doubt that. The pixmap free call is what leads into this call for Xorg
 [14:55:14]  <orki> I could be completely wrong though
 [14:56:03]  <orki> So, who is responsible for deleting a pixmap whose reference count goes to 0 in DoDestroyDrawable?
 [14:57:43]  <krh^ hmm
 [14:58:54]  <orki^ Am I missing something completely obvious?
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[14:59:32]  <krh> orki: no, you might have something here...
 [15:02:47]  <orki^ Ok, who do I bug to get greater understanding of this code? cgit does not show a very long history for this file; so I can't use that to track down the primary author/maintainer
 [15:03:52]  <krh^ glxcmds.c? that would be me, but to understand the refcnt semantics you need to look in fb/fbpixmap.c
 [15:06:13]  <orki^ I see. Ok, I looked at fbpixmap.c and that is what led me here.
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[15:07:45]  <orki> krh: In the sequence of calls from kwin, unmap window gets the refcount down to one, but they hold a reference to the pixmap until a little bit later to avoid some problems with ATI drivers (according to the comment in kwin source code) and then call destroypixmap in glx.
 [15:08:12]  <orki> Finally, the refcnt goes to 0, but noone deletes it.
 [15:08:19]  <krh^ yeah, and DoDestroyDrawable doesn't do the right thing...
 [15:10:46]  <orki^ The other issue I encountered in trying to fix it correctly is that I guess I need to call FreeResource with the right XID (for the pixmap), but I could not find a way to get it.
 [15:11:04]  <orki> Hence the totally hackish patch I posted.
 [15:11:35]  <krh^ I didn't see a patch in 454117
 [15:11:49]  <orki^ Just typing it into 454117
 [15:12:07]  <krh^ use the "create new attachment" linke
 [15:12:09]  <krh> link
 [15:12:27]  <krh> orki: but I have a patch here, if you can give that a try
 [15:12:33]  <orki> I spent the weekend doing this and needed a day to verify that it did not cause instabilities anywhere else.
 [15:12:47]  <orki> krh: I can try whatever you wish me to try.
 [15:14:43]  <orki> I will need to run in 30 minutes; if you want me to try your patch now, please post the patch somewhere in the next 15 minutes or so. Otherwise, please send me email and I will try it tomorrow.
 [15:14:45]  <krh^ try this one: http://people.freedesktop.org/~krh/free-pixmap-better.patch
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[15:15:16]  <orki> Compiling
 [15:22:49]  <orki> krh: That works, thank you very much. It is certainly better than mine (this is my first foray into fixinf an Xorg bug).
 [15:23:38]  <krh^ well, you tracked it down, make it easy to fix
 [15:24:27]  <krh> that's great, thanks,  I'll commit that
 [15:24:48]  <orki^ There is a second memory leak I am trying to track down as well. But that one seems related to font handling, but I have to wait until next weekend for the chance to track that down.
 [15:25:01]  <orki> Need to go, bye.
 [15:25:09]  <krh^ see you later
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[15:33:12]  <ajax> krh: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/Server15Branch
 [15:33:51]  * krh nominates
 [15:36:24]  <krh> wtf
 [15:36:34]  <krh> this textcha this is a little too good
 [15:36:38]  <krh> Give the model name of a [not so recent] GPU from NVIDIA?
[15:37:28]  <krh> rivatnt works
 [15:37:34]  <krh> that's ridiculous
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[15:40:08]  <stillunknown> It doesn't accept model numbers like NVXX, which is what i expected the first time.
 [15:40:24]  <krh> or G70
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[15:56:27]  <anholt> the dri.fd.o captcha has infected the xorg wiki now?
 [15:56:31]  <anholt> harsh
 [15:58:50]  <krh> I felt like I was in a quiz show
 [16:01:23]  <stillunknown> The questions are too difficult in a strange way.
 [16:01:42]  * cjb would have tried G70.  what works?  geforce?
 [16:01:42]  <stillunknown> The questions should have been more specific for the answers they seek.
 [16:01:50]  <stillunknown> geforce should work
 [16:02:10]  <stillunknown> But i'd expect codenumbers to work as well.
 [16:02:16]  <cjb> so, can we revert this?  it's ridiculously elitist.
 [16:02:25]  <cjb> "you may not help out with xorg unless you already know everything"
 [16:03:44]  <stillunknown> I'd just loosen up the answers a bit, so that someone with half a brain can answer.
 [16:04:07]  <anholt> I'm replacing it with addition questions.
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[16:05:51]  <stillunknown> I hope it's not 1 + 1.
 [16:06:51]  <anholt> better now?
 [16:08:41]  <ymanton> are xreqs handled by the ddx? I'm trying to figure out how i might reply to a ListSurfaceTypes xvmc req but i cant find any examples on how to handle these things in nouveau or openchrome
 [16:09:37]  <anholt> the config file says "don't ask computable questions", but until someone comes up with a better plan, that's what we're using.
 [16:13:33]  <ajax> ymanton: typically the driver doesn't do protocol itself...
 [16:15:14]  <ymanton^ where is the usual place to do protocol then?
 [16:15:32]  <ajax> well, XvMC protocol is done in Xext/xvmc.c
 [16:15:35]  <ajax> in the server
 [16:21:42]  <ymanton> i see, looks like i have to fill out some structs in the ddx and pass it to the server
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[16:46:17]  <drago01> airlied: "I only asked me" LOL
 [16:46:42]  <airlied^ oops.. 6:30am.. not a time to reply to flame mails :)
 [16:46:50]  <drago01> ;)
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[16:52:56]  <ajax> and now to wait for tinderbox to tell me i broke the build
 [17:00:32]  <airlied> we need a tinderbox bot..
 [17:00:38]  <airlied> that sits here and beats you ..
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[17:13:54]  <cjb> Maybe should have tinderbox triggered on commits, too.  Next one won't start for 45 mins.
 [17:14:41]  <ajax> it'll be miller time by then
 [17:14:45]  <ajax> so this sounds fine to me ;)
 [17:14:57]  <cjb> :)
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[17:41:19]  <Primer> I'm still trying to figure out why I can't produce mouse buttons 6 and 7 using btnx, a userspace app that uses uinput to send events to the kernel
 [17:41:56]  <Primer> Basically btnx reads a mouse device directly, and then sends events based on its settings into uinput
 [17:42:14]  <Primer> so imagine being able to send control-alt-1 by clicking one mouse button
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[17:42:47]  <Primer> I've concluded, so far, that X somehow sets up a "protocol" for the mouse
 [17:44:14]  <Primer> and that the only buttons that are able to be generated are those it knows about
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[18:16:34]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: heh
 [18:17:46]  <erikg> seems like something might be messed up with the change to ABI, eh?
 [18:18:48]  <daniels> JohnFlux: i work for nokia, as noted, but i can blog for the same reason i can post to public mailing lists -- it's my private blog, not company-related.  of course i'd be shot if i was putting confidential information on it, but in much the same way as if i walked around handing out dvds of confidential plans.
 [18:19:10]  <airlied^ thanks for those dvds..
 [18:19:27]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: I'm thinking so
 [18:20:03]  <daniels> airlied: ssh.
 [18:20:08]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: if reverting the calls back to static inlines resolves the issue, are we then going to try to figure out how to rectify the ABI problem?
 [18:20:42]  <CosmicPenguin> That would probably be best
 [18:20:48]  <erikg> i see
 [18:20:50]  <CosmicPenguin> it is probably as simple as finding a driver that works and copying whatever it does
 [18:20:57]  <erikg> right
 [18:21:01]  <erikg> do you know of any?
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[18:36:19]  <cjb> oh.  we just moved git to cgit?
 [18:36:24]  <cjb> it broke tinderbox.
 [18:38:10]  <cjb> I need a way to do the equivalent of:  http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/util/modular.git;a=blob_plain;f=xorg.modules
 [18:38:28]  <cjb> (ie. latest blob for a file, as text/plain, with cgit)
 [18:39:00]  <DrNick> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/util/modular/blob/?id=55c041b31d478881a4552aff75bc55f7d72b8fe8
 [18:39:33]  <cjb> Thanks!
 [18:39:59]  <cjb> Hm, is 55c04.. referencing a file, or a revision?
 [18:40:15]  <Primer> Is there a mouse "protocol" when it's used via evdev?
 [18:40:25]  <DrNick> oh, yeah, that's a file
 [18:40:48]  <cjb^ how do I find out the id for a given file, then?
 [18:41:03]  <DrNick> you'd probably be better off using git directly, I think
 [18:42:26]  <cjb> Don't think I can; jhbuild wants a "filename" for its moduleset.  It can be a URL.
 [18:56:15]  <daniels> haha, one of the google ad links on phoronix is 'nouveau riche'.
 [18:57:22]  <daniels> cjb: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/util/modular/tree/xorg.modules is close
 [18:59:46]  <cjb^ yes, but not text/plain
 [19:00:06]  <cjb> and I don't know of a static URL to the text/plain version.
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[19:06:37]  <cjb> ajax: here we go:
 [19:06:38]  <cjb> xf86EdidModes.c: In function 'xf86MonitorSupportsReducedBlanking':
 [19:06:38]  <cjb> xf86EdidModes.c:56: error: 'CVT_REDUCED' undeclared (first use in this function)
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[19:07:47]  <daniels> cjb: right
 [19:07:53]  <daniels> probably worth filing a bug to get that functionality
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[19:16:20]  <cjb> daniels: can you tell me which cgit version/commit we're running, please?
 [19:19:28]  <airlied> jbarnes: have you done any DDX on gem/modesetting?
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[19:29:02]  <jbarnes> airlied: no haven't tried that yet
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[19:29:54]  <airlied> jbarnes: so not so useful gem modesetting :)
 [19:30:23]  <jbarnes> even setting aside ddx it's not in great shape
 [19:30:28]  <daniels> cjb: b74cc91574a9284d2f6446fd2ef3df6298ed6992
 [19:30:33]  <jbarnes> it still wants a way to map fbcon w/o any flushing
 [19:30:37]  <cjb> daniels: thanks
 [19:34:00]  <benjsc^ or in non git terms: 0.7.2
 [19:37:34]  <cjb> yup
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[19:41:47]  <keithp> whot: did you see my hot-unplug crash fix on xorg@?
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[19:44:37]  <whot> keithp: I did, it's in my tree, will find its way upstream later today
 [19:44:49]  <keithp^ cool. look reasonable?
 [19:44:58]  <keithp> seemed like it could either fit in Disable or Close
 [19:45:19]  <whot^ no, it must go into disable, since the device won't send events after that.
 [19:45:42]  <whot> and the device's sprite is destroyed in disable too
 [19:45:43]  <keithp> ok, cool.
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[19:48:14]  <whot> thanks for the patch, btw
 [19:52:17]  <keithp^ my pleasure, as always :-)
 [19:52:31]  <keithp> server was crashing every time I undocked from home
 [19:52:36]  <keithp> not much fun in that
 [19:58:26]  <mattst88> I may not have updated all my dependencies, but when trying to compile xserver from git, I get this error: http://slexy.org/view/s2AfPAlb4v
 [20:00:01]  <mattst88> errors appear in xf86EdidModes.c, possibly from ajax's commits a few hours ago?
 [20:00:48]  <whot> keithp: i'm somewhat surprised I didn't spot this. i must have unplugged mice a zillion times
 [20:01:09]  <keithp^ you have to get a warp pointer before you touch another device
 [20:01:24]  <whot> ah, that might explain it then :)
 [20:01:25]  <keithp> mine was caused by resizing the screen
[20:01:39]  <keithp> yeah, it seemed like a fairly obvious corner case that few people would hit
 [20:01:45]  <keithp> but, I hit it every day :-)
 [20:01:58]  <keithp> which kinda made it my problem to fix
 [20:02:11]  <whot> hehe. i love problems that aren't mine :)
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[20:38:22]  * benjsc changes gitweb.fd.o back to gitweb till cgit learns a few features...
 [20:38:37]  <cjb^ ah, thanks
 [20:39:16]  <ds> yeah, some of us are stubbornly used to gitweb
 [20:39:38]  <ds> (although will not complain when we're forced to switch to cgit)
 [20:40:12]  <airlied> we could make gitweb not so public..
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[20:40:54]  <ds> is there something wrong with gitweb vs. cgit?
 [20:41:41]  <ds> well, apart from the crappy user interface
 [20:47:53]  <airlied^ cgit doesn't have bits the tinderbox guys needed.
 [20:49:46]  <benjsc+ gitweb has much higher server demands as well
 [20:52:27]  <leio> I would complain without gitweb, but no-one has to listen to me. Something was missing in it that was very annoying, but right now I can remember only something else that is a bit less annoying - lack of a full log - log in cgit is equal to shortlog in gitweb instead. I imagine that could be related to the server demands concerns but yeah
 [20:54:14]  <benjsc^ I noticed that as well when writing the redirect scripts. cgit doesn't have code to support it
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[23:44:05]  <gurkentraeger> what are the most significant changes to the Xserver or its config when using KDE4??? my screen was flickering most of the time in kde4 --> kde3 session .. no Problems like that!
 [23:44:30]  <gurkentraeger> and in hardy i dont see all the settings in my xorg.conf i used to see in debian etch??
 [23:44:51]  <gurkentraeger> has anybody in here some answers for me?
 ----- [2008-07-22] -----
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[00:23:08]  <sxpert> keithp, how expensive energy-wise would it be to periodically poll the edid info from an analog monitor output ?
 [00:28:03]  <keithp^ polling bad
 [00:28:10]  <sxpert> ah
 [00:28:19]  <keithp^ that means waking up the CPU etc
 [00:28:34]  <sxpert> yes, I understand that
 [00:28:43]  <keithp^ but, once we've moved into the kernel, it might be fun to give things a try and see *how* bad they are
 [00:29:01]  <keithp> just getting automatic *un*plug working would be a good start though
 [00:29:02]  <sxpert> however, i2c traffic probably cheaper than impedance testing
 [00:29:14]  <keithp> yeah, but not in the single-threaded X server world
 [00:29:37]  <sxpert> as for selecting which screen is master. I have a good example at work.
 [00:29:56]  <keithp> selecting master is fairly easy most of the time
 [00:30:02]  <keithp> on a laptop, for instance :-)
 [00:30:18]  <sxpert> my next door co-worker would prefer the laptop's screen to be the master
 [00:30:34]  <keithp> of course, that's what I'd expect
 [00:30:35]  <airlied^ not always..
 [00:30:48]  <keithp^ sure, if the lid was closed
 [00:30:48]  <airlied^ I've lots of users who have docked laptops who wnat desktop monitor the primary.
 [00:30:50]  <sxpert> (but FC9 decided on first boot to use the big monitor)
 [00:31:08]  <airlied> keithp: there is not right answer, there is lots of right for *me* answers.
 [00:31:23]  <keithp^ yeah, which means we should preserve the users choices and use that on startup
 [00:31:35]  <keithp> also, resizeable frame buffers
 [00:31:35]  <sxpert> should probably be in some setting option somewhere ;)
 [00:31:37]  <airlied> with a memory manager, right-of is probably best default
 [00:31:49]  <keithp^ not if it's connected-but-off
 [00:31:49]  <airlied> windows does different things I think.
 [00:32:00]  <keithp^ mac mirrors by default
 [00:32:02]  <airlied> on my laptop XP does native LCD with panning on the lower res VGA
 [00:32:07]  <keithp^ but, always uses the native panel res on the laptop
 [00:32:15]  <airlied^ so does it pan smaller vga?
 [00:32:20]  <keithp> I don't think so
 [00:32:24]  <keithp> I've never seen OS X pan
 [00:32:25]  <airlied^ you can't clone and not pan.
 [00:32:29]  <keithp> yes, you can
 [00:32:37]  <keithp> I think that's what Macs do
 [00:32:40]  <airlied^ Mac OSX don't do that.
 [00:32:54]  <keithp^ I've never seen one pan though; what do they do?
 [00:32:55]  <airlied^ where would the doc end up on the second screen..
 [00:33:01]  <airlied> that wouldn't be apple..
 [00:33:14]  <airlied> ^doc^dock.
 [00:33:16]  <keithp> yeah
 [00:33:25]  <airlied> I'm guessing they do rightr of by default
 [00:33:27]  <keithp> I should pull out $spouse's machine
 [00:33:32]  <airlied> and from talking to people in office that seems right
 [00:33:38]  <keithp> yeah, right-of could work
 [00:33:46]  <keithp> would be nice to get the mouse limits figured out though
 [00:33:56]  <keithp> losing the mouse to a black hole is not fun
 [00:33:57]  <sxpert> in right to left countries, you should probably do the opposite ;)
 [00:34:19]  <airlied> keithp: apple don't ever mess up detection :)
 [00:34:29]  <keithp^ what do we do on 2kx2k machines though?
 [00:34:32]  <airlied> so probably don't have mouse black holes :)
 [00:34:39]  <keithp^ yeah, they leave the VGA port live on intel chips and spend the power
 [00:34:50]  <airlied^ we need to fund shatter :)
 [00:34:57]  <keithp^ s/fund/do/
 [00:35:24]  <airlied^ in those cases, dodgy clone or clone with pan.
 [00:35:31]  <airlied> I think clone with pan is more acceptable than dodgy clone.
 [00:35:35]  <airlied> but they are all shit answers.
 [00:35:37]  <keithp^ panning is fail
 [00:36:11]  <airlied^ well native LCD + native CRT cloning just can't work.
 [00:36:17]  <agd5f> we should add a common function to the drm modesetting for checking acpi lid status
 [00:36:20]  <airlied> what maximise means is anyones guess.
 [00:36:35]  <airlied> at least panning says, this is the desktop.
 [00:36:47]  <keithp^ so we finish shatter and get right-of
 [00:36:55]  <keithp> who's gonna do the DRM piece of shatter though?
 [00:37:03]  <keithp> It's not a huge piece of work, I don't think
 [00:37:07]  <airlied^ I've got some rusty nails..
 [00:37:15]  <keithp> looks a lot like clipping to me
 [00:37:25]  <airlied^ doing the 3D bits of shatter will be painful.
 [00:37:43]  <keithp^ if you ignore large textures, I don't think so
 [00:37:46]  <airlied> granted with DRI2 it might just be cliprect.
 [00:37:58]  <airlied> blit this bit of backbuffer to A and this bit to B
 [00:38:08]  <keithp> right, with DRI2, you just create two backbuffers
 [00:38:12]  <keithp> (for large windows)
 [00:38:26]  <keithp> then just flip the base address and the scissors and go again
 [00:38:29]  <airlied^ does compiz do multiple windows..
 [00:38:43]  <keithp^ oh, that's ugly
 [00:38:55]  <sxpert> btw the latest google earth is slow as hell
 [00:39:00]  <airlied^ vertex shaders
 [00:39:09]  <airlied> don't run too well on the CPU
 [00:39:13]  <keithp> seems zippy here
 [00:39:14]  <sxpert> ah
 [00:39:26]  <airlied> keithp: 965 is fine..
 [00:39:31]  <keithp^ indeed
 [00:39:34]  <airlied^ 9[14]5 == fail.. lots of POW.
 [00:39:39]  <airlied> way more POW than needed.
 [00:39:45]  <airlied> but lack of x86 shader optimiser fai
 [00:39:46]  <airlied> fail
 [00:39:54]  <keithp^ heh. reminds me of a shader I heard about recently -- the "batman" shader.
 [00:39:58]  <keithp> POW POW POW
 [00:40:02]  <sxpert^ using debian sid's X on 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
 [00:40:15]  <keithp^ no vertex shader HW
 [00:40:30]  <sxpert> ah this explains that
 [00:40:31]  <airlied> keithp: google reused it :)
 [00:40:47]  <keithp^ POW is dire on 965 though -- like 8 cycles
 [00:40:54]  <airlied> sxpert: it might be worth trying to disable ARB_vertex_shader
 [00:41:03]  <airlied> keithp: its a lot worse on x86 :)
 [00:41:22]  <keithp^ I dunno
 [00:41:29]  * airlied wishes for LLVM yet again :)
 [00:41:30]  <keithp^ 8 cycles at a slow clock rate
 [00:41:42]  <keithp> oh, but we do get 8 executed in parallel at least
 [00:41:44]  <airlied^ googleearth chews 60-70%in POW.
 [00:41:47]  <airlied> CPU time.
 [00:41:49]  <keithp> so, that's like 1 clock effectively :-)
 [00:41:53]  <airlied> on a Pentium D
 [00:41:57]  <keithp^ ouch
 [00:41:59]  <keithp> failure
[00:42:20]  <keithp> airlied: and, if it's just vertex shaders, then that's not a big deal; there aren't many vertices in ge
 [00:42:36]  <keithp> the 'batman' shader was a fragment program
 [00:43:02]  <keithp> doing gamma-correction stuff (which the hardware does for free, but silly GL doesn't expose *that*)
 [00:45:37]  <sxpert> airlied, hmm... can't seem to find how to do that ;(
 [00:46:15]  <airlied^ I think you would need to  hack mesa.
 [00:46:23]  <airlied> we probably should add a drirc option
 [00:46:24]  <sxpert> ah ...
 [00:46:30]  <airlied> we might already have one but I don't think so
 [00:46:56]  <airlied> keithp: so get the 945 Mac plug in a big monitor and see what it does :)
 [00:47:54]  <sxpert> will vertex shader hardware show up in some future hardware or stuff is all going to raytracing ?
 [00:48:06]  <airlied^ all hw has vertex shaders now.
 [00:48:12]  <airlied> 965 and upwards.
 [00:48:36]  <sxpert> ok. so I should just replace my mobo ;)
 [00:48:39]  <sxpert> ok ;)
 [00:48:46]  <keithp^ of course, intel loves it when you do that
 [00:48:58]  <sxpert> that's not going to be that expensive anyways ;)
 [00:49:32]  <sxpert> anything interesting coming in the next few months I should wait for ?
 [00:49:35]  <keithp^ you really want that new R7 though
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[00:50:21]  <sxpert> btw that E8400 is pretty sweet ;)
 [00:50:36]  <agd5f^ better yet get an AMD 780G board :)
 [00:51:13]  <keithp+ http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/chipsets/g45/g45-overview.htm
 [00:51:30]  <sxpert> the previous via hardware started to show signs of old age... the graphics would hang at random
[00:51:58]  <sxpert> agd5f, lemme guess, you work for amd ;)
 [00:52:07]  <keithp^ he's one of the good guys at amd
 [00:52:14]  <sxpert> yeah, I figured ;)
 [00:52:26]  <agd5f^ :)
 [00:53:01]  <sxpert^ is that a real 100% amd solution, no via or anything inside ?
 [00:53:13]  <agd5f^ all AMD
 [00:53:14]  <agd5f> http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_15532,00.html
 [00:53:15]  <sxpert> ok
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[00:53:50]  <sxpert> agd5f, does that support server chips ?
 [00:54:28]  * sxpert has 1 intel and 1 amd, just to even the field ;)
 [00:55:15]  <sxpert> the AMD is the server box, that will eventually house the big honkin' hard drive set ;)
 [00:55:29]  <sxpert> once I get the money for the Areca raid board ;)
 [00:56:29]  <sxpert> agd5f, tell the sales people to add OpenGL in there somewhere next to "DirectX 10"
 [00:57:09]  <agd5f^ yeah it supports the quad core phenoms
 [00:57:16]  <agd5f> heh, yeah
 [00:58:18]  <sxpert^ keithp, will someone please come out with an HDSDI output too ?
 [00:59:11]  <keithp^ what's that?
 [00:59:21]  <keithp> G45 has HDMI/DVI at least
 [00:59:41]  <sxpert^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Digital_Interface
 [01:00:09]  <sxpert> agd5f, gah, no socket-F mobos
 [01:00:29]  <keithp^ seems unlikely. get an HDMI monitor :-)
 [01:00:45]  <agd5f+ or displayport
 [01:01:32]  <keithp^ yeah, or dp, but I haven't found those as cheap
 [01:01:57]  <sxpert> HDSDI can do 100m (300 ft) ;)
 [01:02:02]  <agd5f> keithp: it's hard to find DP monitors period
 [01:02:15]  <sxpert^ latest dell offering have this
 [01:02:22]  <keithp> agd5f: if you've read the DP spec, you'd understand why. What a mess.
 [01:02:25]  <sxpert> have one on my desk ;)
 [01:03:07]  <sxpert> try to find a 100m HDMI cable ;)
 [01:03:36]  <agd5f> keithp: yeah.  there's a dearth the verfication tools
 [01:03:40]  <sxpert^ anyhow, no socket F ;(
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[01:10:25]  <sxpert> agd5f, this would fit my needs ;) http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2800
 [01:10:56]  <sxpert> (I would gladly do without stupid/useless HDCP though) ;)
 [01:11:42]  <sxpert> keithp, guess I'll have to get one of those ;) http://dveo.com/broadcast-systems/HDMI-to-HD-SDI-converter.shtml
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[01:24:38]  <sxpert> agd5f, hmm... 75on , pretty sweet ;)
 [01:25:05]  <agd5f^ :)
 [01:26:48]  <sxpert> keithp, hmm... no G45 mobos that I can find at http://www.ldlc.com/cat/140024.html
 [01:27:02]  <keithp^ they may not be shipping yet
 [01:27:09]  <sxpert> ah. ok.
 [01:27:10]  <keithp^ it's rather recent (last week?)
 [01:27:18]  <sxpert> hmm. duh !
 [01:27:19]  <sxpert> :=
 [01:27:49]  <sxpert> agd5f, guess this will be it ;) http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00073086.html
 [01:28:34]  <sxpert> any good offering in socket F ?
 [01:29:46]  <sxpert> ah ha ! ;) http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00071795.html
 [01:30:04]  <sxpert> 250t i kit. good
 [01:30:19]  <sxpert> (DDR2 is ridiculously cheap)
 [01:30:23]  <agd5f> yeah
 [01:31:44]  <sxpert> keithp, tell your sales people to steal amd's "find a mobo" page ;)
 [01:32:26]  <agd5f> I'm off to bed
 [01:32:38]  <agd5f> 'nihappy hw hunting :)
 [01:33:37]  <sxpert> gn ;)
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[01:37:38]  <sxpert> keithp, btw, does G45 fixes the 2048 width limitation ?
 [01:37:47]  <keithp^ yes. 8192
 [01:37:56]  <sxpert> ah. that's good ;)
 [01:37:57]  <keithp^ so does the G35 and the 965
 [01:38:01]  <sxpert> ok
 [01:38:06]  <sxpert> good, good ;)
 [01:38:33]  <sxpert> and I take it you can have up to 3 monitors connected at the same time
 [01:38:47]  <sxpert> or mebbe 4
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[01:39:59]  <sxpert> hmm.. it uses DDR3... hmmm
[01:41:24]  <sxpert> ouch !
 [01:44:06]  <sxpert> 60âot / Gb
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[01:49:58]  <erikg> is there any way to get x to start on a readonly filesystem?
 [01:50:21]  <airlied^ point the logfile at /dev/null maybe.
 [01:50:35]  <erikg^ also need to deal with .xauthority
 [01:50:48]  <erikg> though that is something i forgot...
 [01:51:21]  <airlied^ when I used to do embedded stuff I mounted tmpfs
 [01:51:27]  <airlied> and pointed everything into that.
 [01:51:56]  <erikg^ i was just thinging exactly the same thing
 [01:52:22]  <erikg> i basically want a temporary fs which shadows the (read-only) filesystem underneath it
 [01:52:31]  <erikg> can you do that with tmpfs?
 [01:52:53]  <erikg> it's a failsafe for a semi-embedded system
 [01:53:54]  <airlied^ you can do a union mount over a ro fs either.
 [01:54:04]  <airlied> I did a tmpfs on /tmp and just made X use that.
 [01:54:13]  <airlied> so I set the logfile and the security stuff to go ther
 [01:55:11]  <erikg^ thanks man.  i think the union mount is what i'm looking for, only across /
 [01:56:14]  <erikg> the reason is i'm not just concerned with X.  there are other systems which i'd like to get running on a system in which the NAND flash storing the root fs has filled up.
 [01:59:28]  <sxpert> you can also mount some nfs share ;)
 [01:59:49]  <erikg^ unfortunately not possible in this scenario :(
 [02:00:11]  <erikg> at present the only way to resolve the issue in most circumstances is complete data loss (via a reconfiguration of the system)
 [02:00:24]  <sxpert> ah; hmmm
 [02:00:40]  <erikg> so allowing boot of all the user interfaces would allow us to provide an interface to at least selectively remove unnecessary data.
 [02:00:46]  <sxpert> tmpfs is probably a good solution
 [02:00:56]  <erikg> union mount of tmpfs?
 [02:00:57]  <sxpert> in that instance
 [02:02:02]  <sxpert> I think that's the simplest solution
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[02:03:43]  <erikg> sxpert: i'm having trouble finding documentation describing how to set up a union mount
 [02:03:48]  <erikg> do you have any pointers?
 [02:04:13]  <sxpert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_mount
 [02:04:17]  <erikg> :)
 [02:04:32]  <sxpert> says you need unionfs
 [02:05:24]  <sxpert> which, considering the / is full, may not be possible
 [02:07:51]  <erikg^ if it can be used for cdrs then i think it is
 [02:08:07]  <sxpert> well, you need the module to be there
 [02:10:19]  <erikg> right
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[03:48:54]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [04:02:29]  <caro[vtorri]> hey
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[04:03:19]  <caro[vtorri]> when using the WM_NORMAL_HINTS property, if I set the max_width < min width, how does X react ?
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[04:05:14]  <MrCooper> caro[vtorri]: s/X/the window manager/ I think
 [04:05:33]  <caro[vtorri]^ sorry, yes
 [04:10:37]  <MrCooper> I don't know, but I'm afraid basically you can either assume they all handle it reasonably, or be realistic ;)
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[04:30:48]  <caro[vtorri]> ok
 [04:30:53]  <caro[vtorri]> i'll ask raster
 [04:32:46]  <caro[vtorri]> thanks
 [04:33:55]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: you could also try lubos - I think he's the kwin maintainer
 [04:34:12]  <MrCooper^ you mean caro[vtorri]
 [04:34:22]  <caro[vtorri]> :)
 [04:34:34]  <caro[vtorri]> anyway, i read the comment
 [04:35:11]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: oh, for a while I thought you were telling me that caro[vtorri] was the kwin maintainer
 [04:35:20]  <JohnFlux> which confused me greatly :-)
 [04:35:29]  <MrCooper> no, he was the one asking...
 [04:35:31]  <caro[vtorri]> me ???
 [04:35:38]  <caro[vtorri]> not at all :)
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[05:08:21]  <math_b> xf86EdidModes.c needs a #define  _PARSE_EDID_ before #includen "xf86DDC.h" otherwise CVT_REDUCED is undeclared
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[06:17:00]  <daniels> airlied: surely right-of should only be the default in ltr locales :P
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[09:40:46]  <JohnFlux> most of the freedesktop packages have ltmain.sh
 [09:40:54]  <JohnFlux> for example  libX11/ltmain.sh
 [09:41:13]  <JohnFlux> this is for a specific version of libtool though
 [09:41:37]  <JohnFlux> so if you try to compile X on gentoo, it gives the error that ltmain.sh  version doesn't match libtool version
 [09:41:59]  <JohnFlux> if you compile on other distros, the 'problem' is still there, just hidden
 [09:42:21]  <JohnFlux> The easiest fix seems to be to modify autogen.sh to use --force
 [09:42:26]  <JohnFlux> to overwrite ltmain.sh
 [09:45:08]  <JohnFlux> or to not package them in the first place :-)
 [09:46:15]  <daniels> err, or just to not run autogen.sh
 [09:46:24]  <daniels> if you're building, just run ./configure and nothing else
 [09:46:45]  <daniels> if you're hacking the source, then run autogen.sh and yes, it should run --force --install
 [09:47:07]  <JohnFlux^ yeah I have to run autogen.sh because I add in the sgx code
 [09:47:37]  <daniels> yeah, it should have --force in that case
 [09:48:10]  <JohnFlux^ so.. what do you think of adding that change to Head?
 [09:48:34]  <daniels> seems fine to me
 [09:49:36]  <JohnFlux^ cool.  could you do it? :)  I don't actually use head, let alone git :-)
 [09:49:45]  <JohnFlux> no problems if not - i've been meaning to learn git
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[09:52:19]  <daniels> yeah, i'm on it
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[11:43:51]  <ajax> keithp: dammit, why did you put the mode list in so many places in the randr api
 [11:44:19]  <drago01> most likly to annoy you ;)
 [11:44:39]  <ajax> mission effing accompished.
 [11:45:00]  <MrCooper> accompized?
 [11:45:14]  <ajax> acclachughglughlhaghghalh
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[11:46:02]  <ajax> it's basically the only thing in the api that requires that you go do another ddc again (assuming you don't have connection sense tracking, which we don't because we're shit, and which we'll never have for some hardware)
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[12:41:46]  <JohnFlux> daniels: btw, in xserver/hw/xfree86/common/Makefile.am  there is        $(DISTKBDSOURCES)
[12:41:57]  <JohnFlux> which isn't defined anywhere
 [12:42:08]  <JohnFlux> this causes a build failure on picky autotools
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[13:00:04]  * jbarnes wants 16778 to get fixed
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[13:51:00]  <ajax> keithp: http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/randrproto-1.3.patch look plausible to you?
 [13:51:06]  <ajax> (and anyone else)
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[13:55:53]  <anholt> ajax: at least for my hardware. detecting 'connection' is probably going to be more expensive in many cases than getting the ddc mode list.
 [13:56:15]  <anholt> well, they're about the same -- configure pipe, do little thing, unconfigure pipe.
 [13:58:22]  <ajax> you can't send an i2c probe to 0xA0 without configuring the pipe?
 [13:58:26]  <anholt> nope
 [13:58:38]  <anholt> as far as we know
 [13:58:55]  <anholt> also, what consumer is this request for?  I was assuming it was people looking for output layout for window management things, but that doesn't seem to be the case
 [13:59:24]  <anholt> the 1.3 intro says it omits physical size and subpixel, but getoutputbasicinfo still has them
 [13:59:48]  <ajax> yeah, missed that bit.
 [14:00:57]  <ajax> should i ask why you don't just leave the pipes configured?
 [14:01:34]  <ajax> also, why "doesn't seem to be the case"?
 [14:05:35]  <anholt> because leaving the pipe on is about a watt
 [14:06:23]  <ajax> madness
 [14:06:32]  <ajax> well, madness that i2c is tied to it
 [14:06:36]  <anholt^ because I don't see the rectangle in the replies?
 [14:07:28]  <ajax> right, the rectangles come from RRGetCrtcInfo, same as before
 [14:07:44]  <ajax> you just can't get the XIDs of the CRTCs without doing GetScreenResources first...
 [14:11:27]  <anholt> yeah, I guess I'm suggesting that if this is just the request for those people RRGetCrtcRects returning LISTofCRTC and LISTofRECT might be a better plan
 [14:11:38]  <anholt> then you know you aren't going to do any ddc or load detect or anything
 [14:11:41]  <anholt> just get current state
 [14:15:07]  <ajax> the wrinkle is you also want output names, since that's the cheap way of knowing which one's the projector and thus where impress should display to
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[14:17:36]  <ajax> you go from crtc to output with GetCrtcInfo anyway, so just having a list of crtcs up front doesn't help that much
 [14:19:07]  <ajax> well, GetScreenTopology could just return the active set instead of the connected set.
 [14:19:30]  <ajax> the server knows what's already lit, after all
 [14:20:21]  <ajax> and you'd need to take 'connection' out of the GetOutputBasicInfo reply too
 [14:21:48]  <cjb> Anyone have experience with Xephyr/64-bit working?  Wondering whether it's expected (or tested) working.
 [14:22:34]  <ajax> it certainly should work
 [14:22:43]  <ajax> and i'm almost certain i've seen it do so
 [14:23:01]  <anholt> it had issues for a long time, but I thought we fixed them
 [14:23:18]  <ajax> alright, i'll go think about this some more.
 [14:24:01]  <cjb> ok, will try F9, and then Rawhide if that doesn't work.  thanks.
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[14:29:18]  <cworth> keithp: Great post. Thanks!
 [14:29:42]  <ssp> ajax: If this is a response to gtk+ calling GetScreenResources on startup, then it's probably better to just fix gtk+ to do it lazily, which I think is possible
 [14:30:07]  <ssp> The GetScreenResources call we can't get rid of is the one at login time
 [14:31:18]  <jcristau> cjb: there's a bug about xephyr being broken on master/1.5
 [14:32:14]  <jcristau> #15839
 [14:32:25]  <cjb^ d'oh, thanks
 [14:32:27]  <jcristau> ajax: ^ might want to fix that for 1.5
 [14:33:21]  <ssp+ Though they don't harm of course, and are probably sufficient in many cases
 [14:33:28]  <cjb> jcristau: ah, great, this is the same failure we see on F9
 [14:33:34]  <cjb> which at least means fixing one should fix both :)
 [14:33:50]  <cjb> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=454868
 [14:34:39]  <jcristau^ right
 [14:36:59]  <cworth> I want to make planet.x.org be a more X-specific set of bloggers than the current planet.freedesktop.org set.
 [14:37:08]  <cworth> Anybody have any objections to that?
 [14:37:44]  <cworth> Here are the results of my first quick scan through the names:
 [14:37:46]  <cworth> Adam Jackson, Alan Coopersmith, Carl Worth, Daniel Stone,
 [14:37:46]  <cworth> Dave Airlie, Donnie Berkholz, Egbert Eich, Eric Anholt,
 [14:37:46]  <cworth> Ian Romanick, Jerome Gliss, Jesse Barnes, Keith Packard,
 [14:37:46]  <cworth> Kristian H?gsberg, Luc Verhagen, Matthew Allum, Matthias Hopf,
 [14:37:47]  <cworth> Peter Hutterer, The Irregular Radeon Development Companion,
 [14:37:47]  <cworth> Tiago Vignatti, Zack Rusin, xkeyboard-config
 [14:38:11]  <cjb> doesn't sound objectionable if you're just creating a new planet.  I tend to enjoy planet.fd.o, it's not too high-traffic for me.
 [14:38:13]  <cworth> Anybody have any suggested edits for that list? (And please, no offense if I missed anybody...)
 [14:38:32]  <cworth> cjb: Right, planet.freedesktop.org won't change at all.
 [14:38:46]  <cworth> We currently have planet.x.org as an alias to the identical content, and that doesn't seem useful.
 [14:39:03]  <anholt> dodji does a decent bit of x work these days
 [14:39:17]  <ssp> cworth: Feel free to add me if you want (http://advogato.org/person/ssp/rss.xml)
 [14:39:29]  <ajax> anholt: not so much anymore
 [14:39:39]  <anholt> oh, was that just a one-shot deal?
 [14:39:43]  <ajax> he's off in tools land now
 [14:39:54]  <cjb> cworth: would you want posts about X only, or just a more limited set of people to get posts-about-everything from?
 [14:40:05]  <Dodji> yeah, but I'd like to still look at xephyr things
 [14:40:09]  <cworth> ssp: Oh, absolutely. How did I miss your name? Oh, you aren't on planet.freedesktop.org currently.
 [14:40:20]  <Dodji> time oh time, where have you been
 [14:40:25]  <ssp> cworth: I don't post much, so I never bothered to ask
 [14:41:05]  <cworth> ajax: Thanks. That's one I missed for sure.
 [14:41:29]  <cworth> Err... I read that backlog wrong.
 [14:41:53]  <cworth> Dodji: I'm glad to put your feed there.
 [14:42:14]  <Dodji^ thanks
 [14:42:15]  <anholt> cworth: I'd add svu and oliver mcfadden to the list
 [14:42:28]  <cworth> cjb: That's a tough question. Some people really like the "everything from everybody" kinds of feeds.
 [14:42:34]  <Dodji^ I should prolly give you a link that is specific to X stuff
 [14:42:48]  <Dodji> I will send you an email with that later, if you don't mind
 [14:42:50]  <cworth> And I totally understand the motivation there, (putting a personal touch on the presentation, etc.).
 [14:42:56]  <cworth> Dodji: Sounds perfect.
 [14:43:29]  <cworth> But I think the current problem I want to address is that there isn't an easy, single place to follow technical goings-on related to X.
 [14:43:50]  <cworth> So I'm leaning toward keeping the technical content high, and X-specific. Thoughts?
 [14:44:29]  <cworth> anholt: Good, thanks for adding names I'm not as familiar with.
 [14:44:41]  * cworth clearly doesn't read blogs or commit logs closely enough...
 [14:45:29]  <anholt> yeah, I wish planets were better on handling tag filtering, so we could have planets just for technical stuff and whoisi for "I think this guy is so cool I want to know when he had an awesome lunch"
 [14:45:49]  <cworth> ajax: I was a bit surprised to see the "X.org" blog listed in the planet.fd.o subscriptions. I don't recall ever knowing that that had existed. (I left if off as it seems quite dead.)
 [14:46:46]  <cworth> anholt: With ikiwiki, I'm generating a separate feed per tag, so it's easy for me to just subscribe my X-specific posts to this planet.
 [14:46:59]  <cworth> I don't know if other blogging software is as good about that.
 [14:48:24]  <cworth> I guess I could make it a rule that people would have to send me a feed for "posts targeted for the audience of people interested in X" before I add any feed.
 [14:49:28]  <cworth> But I also don't want to put myself too much in the place of making editorial judgment calls.
 [14:51:03]  * vignatti totally agrees with planet separation :)
 [14:52:16]  <cjb> cworth: yeah, the definition of "planet" that I'm used to is the original planet gnome definition -- a window into the lives of the people who work on <x>
 [14:52:24]  <cjb> not, "a work blog from the people who work on <x>"
 [14:52:35]  <cjb> it's fine to do something different, but it's not the normal definition.
 [14:52:52]  <agd5f> cworth: add me
 [14:53:17]  <vignatti+ and what about jim gettys?
 [14:53:49]  <vignatti> oops his blog is pointing to planet.fd.o
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[14:56:54]  <cworth> agd5f: Yikes! Yes, of course. Sorry I overlooked you!
 [14:58:33]  <cworth> vignatti: Right. I'm not aware of any X-related posts from jg. If there's a feed for those, I'd be happy to add it.
 [14:59:41]  <cworth> OK, so I'll start with the list of names I've got now, (and the feeds as they are on planet.freedesktop.org), and then send a post to the mailing list asking for any suggested changes.
 [15:01:06]  <vignatti^ cool. Thanks for the initiative.
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[16:13:52]  <Dodji> jcristau, for the xephyr bug, I have _finally_ setup an x86_64 box here. so I can work on the bug now
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[16:14:05]  <Dodji> jcristau, I didn't have that before :-(
 [16:14:16]  <cjb^ thanks!
 [16:14:36]  <cjb> OLPC uses Xephyr for running the Sugar environment on our desktops, so we'll be very happy with you if you fix it :)
 [16:15:20]  <Dodji> :-)
 [16:16:18]  <cjb^ (I'll gladly offer to test fix attempts, too.)
 [16:16:58]  <Dodji> :-)
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[16:24:44]  <jcristau> Dodji: cool
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[16:34:42]  <mtd> Dodji: just stopped by to say thanks for looking at the Xephyr on x86_64 bug, too! ( http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15839 )
 [16:36:09]  <Dodji> :-)
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[17:24:42]  <Dodji> hrm
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[17:35:04]  <Dodji> what option should I pass to mesa to have $libdir/dri/swrast_dri.so built ?
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[18:20:18]  <Dodji> cjb, mtd: 'kay, I think I might have  a fix
 [18:20:40]  * Dodji has just got glxgears working on x86_64 in xephyr
 [18:23:08]  <cjb> woot.
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[18:26:35]  <mtd> Dodji: killer
 [18:30:40]  <Dodji> I think I should really switch my laptop to x86_64 as well
 [18:30:57]  <Dodji> I don't know why I installed in x86 mode.
 [18:31:10]  <marcheu> fear of unknown, and flash :)
 [18:31:14]  <Dodji> haha
 [18:31:19]  <cjb> yeah, I think of x86-64 as being somewhat like unicode or IPv6; if we want everyone to use them, we should probably start running them more.
 [18:31:21]  <Dodji> marcheu, I don't use flash ;-)
 [18:31:28]  <Dodji> but yeah, fear of unknown
 [18:31:32]  <marcheu^ I guess that leaves you with just the former :)
 [18:32:01]  <marcheu> cjb: actually x86-64 rocks to me (I like mmaping huge file) but I couldn't care less about the 2 others :)
 [18:32:02]  <Dodji> also, I installed fedora on the laptop.
 [18:32:08]  <Dodji> and I was using debian before
 [18:32:16]  <Dodji> so maybe I didn't want to change too many things at one
 [18:32:17]  <Dodji> once
 [18:32:24]  <Dodji> I was wrong
 [18:32:38]  <marcheu^ rule #1: if fedora fails, blame ajax and airlied loudly
 [18:32:45]  <Dodji> hehe
 [18:32:58]  <Dodji> turned out fedora didn't fail :-)
 [18:33:40]  <Dodji> I will nevertheless re-install it on x86_64, rather sooner than later
 [18:33:46]  * Dodji hates installing
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[19:11:26]  <cjb> Dodji: lemme know how you'd like to distribute your fix -- if you're committing it directly, if you want to throw us a patch, etc :)  thanks!
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[19:15:02]  <Dodji> cjb, I have just committed to master
 [19:15:14]  <cjb> thanks :)
 [19:15:19]  <Dodji^ (and updated the bug)
 [19:15:28]  <cjb> I wonder how regularly ajax takes a master snapshot into Rawhide
 [19:16:09]  <cjb> oh, easy patch :)
 [19:16:28]  <Dodji> :-)
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[19:21:07]  <cjb> hm, X not worky on the new machine I just got.  Seems to have two graphics cards:
 [19:21:15]  <cjb> 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
 [19:21:20]  <cjb> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Mobilitiy Radeon HD 3450
 [19:21:24]  <cjb> (it's a desktop, not laptop)
 [19:21:56]  <airlied^ nice.. we sorta sucked at multiple graphics cards lately.
 [19:22:02]  <airlied> but I think master should be fine on it.
 [19:22:50]  <cjb> I'm presuming the mobility is the integrated one that I don't want to use
 [19:22:55]  <cjb> airlied: radeon doesn't seem to be claiming the other one
 [19:23:04]  <CosmicPenguin> RS780 northbridge, I take it?
 [19:23:52]  <cjb^ yup
 [19:25:33]  <CosmicPenguin> That would be 01:05.0 then
 [19:26:40]  <airlied> cjb: you could go with BusID in the xorg.conf
 [19:26:46]  <airlied> but it should pick the master one.
 [19:27:05]  <cjb> woot, working now
 [19:27:17]  <cjb> radeon just claimed "no devices found" without a BusID
 [19:27:28]  <cjb> then I picked 1:5, which turned out to be the VGA-only one
 [19:27:38]  <cjb> then tried 2:0, which worked dual-link DVI, which is where the monitor's plugged in.
 [19:28:10]  <cjb> http://chris.printf.net/radeon-xorg.log
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[19:45:22]  <anholt> ugh, why am I getting no input drivers loaded automatically?  xorg.conf just has section files, device (for 2d), screen, and dri.
 [19:46:55]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: Any familiarity with:
 [19:46:56]  <cjb> Your BIOS doesn't leave a aperture memory hole                                 
[19:47:09]  <cjb> ?  Can't see anything obvious about IOMMU in the BIOS.
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[19:59:11]  <daniels> anholt: should work.  are you linked to libhal? if yes, are you getting errors about failing to connect?
 [19:59:46]  <anholt> libhal.so.1 => /usr/lib/libhal.so.1 (0xb7fd5000)
 [19:59:56]  <daniels> log is silent on the matter?
 [20:00:09]  <daniels> lshal | grep evdev shows, well, evdev?
 [20:00:10]  <anholt> nothing in grep -i hal /var/log/Xorg.0.log
 [20:00:26]  <anholt> input.xkb.model = 'evdev'  (string) (4 times)
 [20:01:07]  <cjb^ when this happened to me, I was missing a HEAD .fdi file in my jhbuild X.
 [20:02:16]  <cjb> via whot:  "hal doesn't add the x11_ options, most likely due to a missingx11-input.fdi file"
 [20:03:39]  <daniels> yeah
 [20:03:52]  <daniels> you're only adding the xkb stuff, not the driver, so x is studiously ignoring them
 [20:03:58]  <daniels> as it doesn't know which driver to use
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[20:42:59]  <whot> XDS is 6-8 sep in EDI, right?
 [20:44:34]  <marcheu> I thought 12-12
 [20:44:37]  <marcheu> 10-12
 [20:44:58]  <marcheu> at least that's what the topic in #xorg-europe says, but OTOH I set it :)
 [20:45:10]  <whot^ oh, makes sense, 6 is a saturday...
 [20:45:29]  <marcheu> let me see private logs
 [20:46:02]  <marcheu> hmm 3-5 actually
 [20:46:24]  <marcheu> so, 3-5 sep, final answer
 [20:48:26]  <whot> k. thx
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[20:52:22]  <benjsc_> whot: Hey, how well does MPX work with the nvidia driver these days? Would we still have dri support?
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[20:53:05]  <whot> benjsc_: good question. I've broken the ABI but not in a way that it should affect the driver. So the latest nvidia driver may just work.
 [20:53:38]  <benjsc_^ what were you using when playing with compiz
 [20:53:46]  <whot> an ATI card :)
 [20:54:48]  <whot> benjsc_: is the DT setup in the eworld still there? that one has an nvidia card, using nv though.
 [20:55:06]  <benjsc_> k, looks like current project requires gl support and mpx. I'll try the nvidia driver see how well things work
 [20:55:25]  <whot> good luck...
 [20:55:43]  <benjsc_> doesn't sounds promising :) you think it won't work?
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[20:56:18]  <whot> I have no idea, tbh. The latest driver supports 1.5 AFAIK, so it could be fine. Haven't tested it myself though
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[21:26:38]  <aaronp> whot: The nvidia driver works with master, I'm using it right now.
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[21:43:10]  <whot> benjsc_: you win!
 [21:43:15]  <whot> aaronp: thx
 [21:43:32]  <aaronp^ How do I get master to autoconfig/hotplug/mpxify my input devices?
 [21:43:56]  <aaronp> I'm running hald and the dbus system bus, but I don't get any input.
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[21:44:45]  <whot> run hal-device and see search for input.x11_driver
 [21:45:04]  <whot>   input.x11_driver = 'evdev'  (string)
 [21:45:21]  <aaronp> I've got two of those.
 [21:46:02]  <whot> can you pastebin the log somewhere?
 [21:46:10]  <aaronp> Sure
 [21:47:05]  <aaronp> http://sh.nu/p/24706
 [21:48:34]  <aaronp> Oh, I'll bet the server failed to load evdev.
 [21:49:36]  <whot+ sorry. I meant the xorg.log
 [21:49:55]  <whot> the hal log looks fine
 [21:51:44]  <aaronp> http://sh.nu/p/24707
 [21:54:32]  <whot^ did you have libhal-dev and libdbus-dev installed at configure time?
 [21:55:41]  <aaronp> libdbus-dev, yes, but libhal-dev, probably not.
 [21:55:44]  * aaronp runs config.status --recheck
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[21:58:15]  <whot> aaronp: that'd be it then, all the hotplug code is ifdef'd out, so you don't get anything.
 [21:58:30]  <aaronp> Yep, that did it.  Sorry for wasting your time
 [21:58:41]  <aaronp> Now to get mpwm to work...
 [21:59:23]  <whot^ ouch. don't. seriously. it's not intended for anything more than a demo
 [22:00:12]  <aaronp> Heh.  It's only seeing one combined mouse.
 [22:00:21]  <whot> xinput --create-master foobar
 [22:00:31]  <whot> xinput --reattach MyUSBMouse "foobar pointer"
 [22:00:55]  <aaronp> Ah, thanks.
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[22:04:25]  <whot> aaronp: there's a gnome-utility too in it's first stages. git://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/gnome-device-setup.git
 [22:07:14]  <aaronp> Sweet, it works!
 [22:08:16]  <whot> bloody hope so :)
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[23:07:33]  <aaronp> Now we just need hardware with > 1 HW cursor or an 
 [23:09:13]  <whot> I think MrCooper is fond of rendering the cursors in the composite manager
 [23:10:48]  <airlied> we need to allocate a full screen overlay icon and put the cursors in it..
 [23:10:54]  <airlied> because its only RAM.
 [23:21:55]  <airlied> the only thing more incompetent than via is the open source situation with via.
 [23:22:03]  <airlied> 3 drivers all equally made out of ass..
 [23:22:26]  <airlied> oops wrong channel.
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[23:51:10]  <cjb> aaronp: whot's mpx-aware compiz might be worth trying.
 [23:51:16]  <cjb> (I haven't yet.)
 [23:51:29]  <cjb> whot: how does it compare to e.g. mpwm?
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----- [2008-07-23] -----
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[00:07:27]  <whot> cjb: the fact that compiz actually works gives it a significant selling point over mpwm :)
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[00:17:45]  <ace_suares> hi
 [00:17:55]  <ace_suares> cjb ? whot ?
 [00:18:04]  <whot> yes?
 [00:18:39]  <ace_suares> sorry to intrude but is there a way to monitor or sniff the traffic between an app started with ssh -X and the server ??
 [00:19:07]  <ace_suares> or is there another way to debug teh ever crashing app that I want to start with ssh -X and that works on older versions ?
 [00:21:10]  <whot^ i guess starting your server on :1 and xmond on :0 might solve your problem
 [00:21:34]  <ace_suares> xmond... okay thanx let me look that up...
[00:22:23]  <ace_suares> I can not find that package on my server... lemme google...
 [00:22:58]  <ace_suares> okay found it it's xmon package...
 [00:26:18]  <ace_suares> so i start xmond in a terminal in :0 ?
 [00:29:07]  <ace_suares> okay i got xmonui | xmond -server :2
 [00:32:33]  <ace_suares> Hm I see the xmonui but not the output of xmond...
 [00:33:03]  <whot^ dunno xmonui, but xmond puts it on stdout
 [00:33:32]  <ace_suares> k i will leave xmonui out, it's an innterface to the many options of xmond...
 [00:35:34]  <ace_suares> in the man it says 'xmond' connections mad on :1 will appear on :0
 [00:35:59]  <ace_suares> but with -server i can let xmond listen to :2 (i had to start :2 since :1 was already doing something else)
 [00:36:38]  <whot> if :1 is your server, xmond -server :1 -port :0
 [00:36:43]  <ace_suares> so 'xmond -server :2 ' should give me the output for :2 on :0... right ?
 [00:37:09]  <ace_suares> :2 is the server I started to test the crashing app... I need to monitor :2, yes ?
 [00:37:22]  <whot> you connect to port, and its forwarded to server
 [00:38:25]  <ace_suares> I am lost. I am reading the man page. Should I start an X server first (X :2) or do JUST xmond -server :2 ?
 [00:39:42]  <whot^ X :1, then xmond -server :1 -port 0; then xterm -display :0 shows the xtraffic on stdout
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[00:44:15]  <ace_suares> whot something just went horribly wron, I'll try on antoehr machine.
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[00:51:56]  <ace_suares> I am just not getting any output on stdout from xmond...
 [00:54:47]  <ace_suares> aha
 [00:54:59]  <ace_suares> I just dont need to start another X server...
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[00:59:24]  <ace_suares> well okay i got it now: start xmond from a terminal on :0 and it will MAKE a :1 to connect to.
 [00:59:37]  <ace_suares> then DISPLAY=:1 and then start xterm.
 [00:59:45]  <ace_suares> But xterm says can not connect to display :1
 [01:05:40]  <ace_suares> well now at least xmond tells me ECONNREFUSED.
 [01:05:53]  <ace_suares> but then it exits.
 [01:10:29]  <whot^ DISPLAY=localhost:1 should work
 [01:14:32]  <ace_suares> whot DISPLAY=:1; xterm -> connection refused.
 [01:14:42]  <ace_suares> started xmond without option
 [01:14:46]  <ace_suares> options
 [01:14:52]  <ace_suares> baffled here.
 [01:15:20]  <ace_suares> maybe becasue it is using socket ? I saw a bug report http://lists.debian.org/debian-qa-packages/2008/03/msg00161.html
 [01:17:19]  <whot^ did you try it with localhost:1?
 [01:18:02]  <ace_suares> yep, and with 127.0.0.1:1.0 and localhost:1.0 to no avail.
 [01:18:52]  <ace_suares> as I understand, xmond is in fact a tcp/ip listener... and if I interpret the bug report rightm, then my X server is not using tcp/ip but a unix socket ?
 [01:19:00]  <ace_suares> ahh... -nolisten tcp !
 [01:19:05]  <ace_suares> should I disable that ?
 [01:21:04]  <whot^ yes
 [01:21:45]  <ace_suares> working on it
 [01:34:02]  <ace_suares> I got some working xmond now :-)
 [01:34:13]  <ace_suares> i was also misinterpreting -server option
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[01:48:45]  <ace_suares> whot 1000x thanks, at least I can monitor the traffic now, I might be able to find the culprit
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[03:25:16]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:29:17]  <caro[vtorri]> tilman: ping
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[04:34:33]  <airlied> christ deepak on -ati list now
 [04:37:32]  <MrCooper> deepak?
 [04:38:08]  <airlied^ the X11R7.1 dude.
 [04:39:00]  <MrCooper> ah, the one we should tell which card to buy now?
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[04:39:44]  <airlied> MrCooper: yup..
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[05:13:29]  <JohnFlux> ace_suares: also see the -ac option
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[05:22:44]  <daniels> airlied: have funwith that
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[06:20:43]  <libv> airlied: so unichrome is made out of ass?
 [06:21:03]  <libv> strange... as unichrome was a proving ground for some concepts now deemed absolutely fundamental.
 [06:25:13]  <daniels> (please god do not let this be another rant about randr one point fucking two)
 [06:25:56]  <libv^ no, i just found dave's statements kind of ... out of place?
 [06:25:59]  <libv> maybe...
 [06:27:25]  <daniels> me too, but probably because they were intended, as he said, for another channel?
 [06:27:39]  <libv> makes me wonder which
 [06:27:51]  <daniels> me too
 [06:27:57]  <airlied> libv: if you can describe anything about the via situation as a win I'm all ears.
 [06:28:19]  <daniels> i don't have the context either, but i wholly agree with the sentiment
 [06:28:46]  <airlied> the fact there exists 3 drivers all that fail to run the hardware useably in different ways is a testament to it all being ass.
 [06:28:59]  <libv^ VIA itself no, but the statement i made there is pretty true nonetheless, however much you like to deny so
 [06:29:10]  <daniels> 11:25 < daniels> (please god do not let this be another rant about randr one point fucking two)
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[06:29:43]  <airlied> libv: its easy to say unichome was a proving ground, but erally it didn't prove much.
 [06:29:52]  <libv^ oh?
 [06:29:52]  <airlied> other than the fact that having another via driver wasn't helping.
 [06:30:10]  <daniels> no-one brought that aspect of it up (i invented encoders and everyone stole my ideas without attribution); what dave's saying right now is that the fork was a disaster for via users, and i agree with him.
 [06:30:32]  <libv> but forks seem to be the way of the world apparently
 [06:31:32]  <daniels> two things there.  one is that they don't happen every week, and you don't explicitly aim for them.  two is that there are two kinds of fork: if we look at xfree86, you have xorg, and xouvert.
 [06:31:34]  <libv> and yes, they usually are pretty catastrophic, as any dispersment of resources tends to be
 [06:32:26]  <daniels> at least the consensus seems to be that openchrome works for everyone and people can just use that.
 [06:33:01]  <libv> to some extent.
 [06:33:08]  <airlied> openchrome is the only choice from a distro pov..
 [06:33:36]  <daniels> libv: *shrug*, it's in xf86AutoConfig.c and i haven't seen anyone complaining, so that seems to be a win
 [06:33:46]  <airlied> btw my comments were on dri-devel.
 [06:33:51]  <daniels> that we're celebrating the fact that we now have one working driver is a pretty sad achievement, but c'est la vie
 [06:33:56]  <airlied> to MostAwesomeDude....
 [06:34:01]  <libv> oh, i fully acknowledge that one, well, except for those who are more and more moving to via's own crap code again
 [06:34:28]  <libv> as that is the only place where code is actually being worked on, sadly.
 [06:34:57]  <daniels> airlied: == corbin, yeah?
 [06:35:01]  <airlied^ yup.
 [06:35:07]  <daniels> libv: sad situation indeed
 [06:35:14]  <airlied> he wanted to get some via hw and I pointed him to adumpster.
 [06:35:18]  <daniels> heh
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[06:42:07]  <libv> sadly via is the fourth biggest player.
 [06:42:17]  <libv> it's market share is pretty much lost in an error margin
 [06:42:32]  <libv> but that's how sparse things have become
 [06:43:34]  <daniels> well, now we have the situation where intel has one open source driver, nvidia has one actually open-source driver, and amd has ... two
 [06:43:50]  <daniels> one of which uses atombios, and one of which has not using atombios as its defining feature (but also uses atombios)
 [06:44:16]  <libv^ yes, but guess what people will be saying about this situation and its players in future.
 [06:44:43]  <airlied> they'll wonder why the hell atombios wasn't used from the start and replaced gradually later.
 [06:44:49]  <libv^ sure.
 [06:45:08]  <daniels^ the whole cp -R thing isn't exactly helping radeonhd's case
 [06:45:20]  <libv^ cp -R of what?
 [06:45:42]  <airlied^ which will end up with more lines of code from the other?
 [06:45:50]  <daniels> nor is the ATOMBIOS IS HIDEOUSLY EVIL WE WILL NEVER USE THIS SHIT IT'S A PLOT quickly followed by the 'well, amd asked us to and we're being paid to work on it, so we must do what they say' thing (sound familiar?) :)
 [06:46:04]  <libv^ "asked"... hehe
 [06:46:09]  <libv> and AMD?
 [06:46:35]  <airlied^ I would think the accel code is going to be a lot larger than the radeon_atombios[ch] files.
 [06:47:01]  <libv^ fully and properly implemented atombios isn't exactly small
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[06:47:28]  <daniels> neither is fully and properly implemented exa, dri and xv support, it seems
 [06:47:47]  <libv> :)
 [06:47:51]  <airlied^ the main atombios code came from AMD, the two files I mentioned are the only code I had to use.
 [06:48:05]  <libv> right. that's your metric indeed
 [06:48:17]  <airlied> and lots of radeon_atombios.c is actually pointless function wrappers.
 [06:48:35]  <daniels> We have been asked to provide AtomBIOS support for the RadeonHD
 [06:48:36]  <daniels> driver to speed up the driver bring up for future generations of
 [06:48:36]  <daniels> graphics hardware. It relieves ATI of the burden to have register
 [06:48:36]  <daniels> specification available at the time of release of new graphics hardware
 [06:48:36]  <daniels> and thus allow it to focus on the publication of documentation for
 [06:48:38]  <daniels> 3D programming.
 [06:48:54]  <airlied> I would guess I actually need 1000 lines of it to get -ati working, but I was in a hurry..
 [06:48:55]  <daniels> http://egbert-e.livejournal.com/1768.html
 [06:49:05]  <daniels> libv: would you disagree with egbert's characterisation here?
 [06:49:49]  <airlied> my current kernel reimplentation is 337 loc.
 [06:49:50]  <libv> daniels: rv770 was interesting :)
 [06:50:01]  <daniels^ how so?
 [06:51:43]  <daniels> i just hope for your sake that you're not being forced to do anything by your employer, since we know from your earlier rants about red hat and intel that you _really_ don't like that.
 [06:51:51]  <libv> we could've had same day support if we had the hardware and the mc information there.
 [06:57:25]  <libv> daniels: and no, i am not doing any work with atombios myself.
 [06:57:53]  <daniels> very well-worded
 [06:58:09]  <daniels> tr - ' '
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[10:52:05]  <ajax> sunifdef needs a softer version of -D
 [10:52:56]  <ajax> like -d "__GNUC__ >= 3"
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[10:53:14]  <ajax> that just means "if this symbol is defined, it will have this property, simplify if you can"
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[11:19:37]  <glisse> anyone know other window manager which can have interactive change through command line like http://scwm.sourceforge.net/
 [11:20:08]  <ajax> you could just do 'yum install wmctrl'
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[11:23:00]  <glisse> ajax: thanks didn't know about that tools :)
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[11:23:42]  <glisse> Unix world is wonderfull
 [11:24:23]  <vignatti^ ratpoison? :)
 [11:24:37]  <ajax> eew.
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[11:29:24]  <jbarnes> ajax: can has shatter now pls kthxbye
 [11:29:54]  <ajax> you people and your pitch limits.
 [11:31:39]  <CosmicPenguin> yeah, my voice cracks when ever I try to get above tenor
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[11:32:30]  <ajax> #ifdef __GNUC__
 [11:32:30]  <ajax> #define XaceHook(args...) Success
 [11:32:33]  <ajax> #else
 [11:32:33]  <ajax> #define XaceHook(...) Success
 [11:32:35]  <ajax> #endif
 [11:32:55]  <ajax> sigh variadic args.
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[11:35:51]  <tilman> caro[vtorri]: pong
 [11:43:07]  <anholt> daniels: so, the fdi file is only installed when CONFIG_DBUS_API, but CONFIG_DBUS_API is off by default?
 [11:43:17]  <anholt> but that's what you need for a functioning input system?
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[11:53:36]  <math_b> unifdef : didn't know about that and last week when I chased all those #define lynxos *by*hand* ...
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[11:55:08]  <caro[vtorri]> tilman: did you see my mail about enthrall on the edevel ML ?
 [11:56:06]  <tilman^ yes, do what you feel
 [11:56:11]  <caro[vtorri]> ok :)
 [11:56:25]  <caro[vtorri]> tilman: i prefer to ask, you're the author of enthrall :)
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[12:45:16]  <jbarnes> sounds like whot volunteered to handle 1.6?
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[12:47:40]  <cjb> ooh.
 [12:50:09]  <agd5f> jbarnes: seconded.  the motion carries :)
 [12:50:15]  <jbarnes> heh
 [12:50:29]  <daniels> anholt: erm, no
 [12:50:31]  <jbarnes> agd5f: you coming to plumbers?
 [12:50:46]  <daniels> anholt: xorg-server.conf is only installed if CONFIG_DBUS_API, which is what you need to let clients talk to the server over dbus
 [12:50:57]  <daniels> x11-input.fdi is never installed, because your distro should do that for you
 [12:52:27]  <anholt^ I fail at reading, I guess.  my lovely distro puts x11-input.fdi in the examples dir
 [12:52:59]  <agd5f> jbarnes: plumbers?
 [12:53:28]  <jbarnes> http://linuxplumbersconf.org/
 [12:53:50]  <daniels> anholt: awesome.  get a more competent distro.
 [12:53:55]  <daniels> wtf one are you running?
 [12:54:07]  <anholt> debian
 [12:54:09]  <jbarnes> agd5f: you should submit a paper about exposing gpu properties or something :)
 [12:54:37]  <daniels> anholt: that's delightfully broken.  suggest rambling in jcristau's vague direction.
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[12:55:37]  <agd5f> jbarnes: doubtful, but I'll look into it
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[13:02:19]  <vignatti> jbarnes: is plumbersconf accepting papers? I'm just seeing '500 words abstract'..
 [13:02:40]  <jbarnes^ oh yeah I guess they're not really papers, but proposals for presentations/working groups
 [13:03:19]  <vignatti> yesh
 [13:04:39]  <cjb> Dodji: could you push your 64-bit Xephyr fixes to server-1.5-branch, perhaps?
 [13:04:57]  <daniels> speaking of 1.5 branch ...
 [13:05:17]  <Dodji> cjb, I didn't have any confirmation from you guys that it did fix it for you ?
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[13:06:03]  <Dodji> cjb, would be nice to add some more comments on the bug before I can "take the risk", I'd say.
 [13:06:22]  <Dodji> not that it's critical code :-)
 [13:07:18]  <cjb^ ah, ok.  I'll give it a try, then.
 [13:07:27]  <Dodji> thanks
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[13:12:02]  <daniels> ajax: last i heard, openbsd on vax still used gcc 2.72 or something, and didn't support shared libraries, so you're definitely alienating a crucial part of our userbase.
 [13:14:05]  <ajax> you're right.  hang on, i'll re-add aoutloader.c
 [13:14:45]  <daniels> also, why stop at qnx? iric, surely.
 [13:14:47]  <daniels> irix, even.
 [13:15:51]  <ajax> hey man.  you never had to read (or patch) the xfree86 4.3 port to irix.
 [13:16:06]  <ajax> what do you know about pain.
 [13:16:17]  <cjb> "I think this is what pain feels like!"
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[13:17:34]  <ajax> oh jesus, we have an ifdef DGUX?
 [13:17:40]  <ajax> GET OUT OF MY TEETH
 [13:18:05]  <Nedlinpopo> hey guys, I'm trying to figure out how to change the order of the window stack via the X protocol
 [13:18:16]  <Nedlinpopo> using python xlib
 [13:18:35]  <Nedlinpopo> and along with that find the window handles based on their names
 [13:18:42]  <daniels> ajax: i think we held equally painful jobs at the time, no?
 [13:18:45]  <Nedlinpopo> where shoudl i look at learning that
 [13:18:58]  <daniels^ XQueryTree, XRaiseWindow, XLowerWindow
 [13:19:54]  <Nedlinpopo^ i haven't found XRaiseWindow in python's Xlib implementation, so i think that means it's a wrapper for some lower calls, maybe?
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[13:20:19]  <Nedlinpopo> and dumb question: are all windows children of teh root window?
 [13:20:37]  <ajax> yes, with the caveat that there may be more than one root window
 [13:20:38]  <Nedlinpopo> so if i query tree on the root window, will i get all teh windows?
 [13:20:58]  <Nedlinpopo> more than one root window?  in what case is that?
 [13:21:02]  <ajax> you get one root window per "screen".  but, typically, there's only one screen.
 [13:21:06]  <Nedlinpopo> (multiple screens?)
 [13:21:13]  <Nedlinpopo> ah, okay
 [13:21:38]  <Nedlinpopo> is there 1 root per screen?
 [13:21:49]  <Nedlinpopo> is that a hard and fast X rule?
 [13:21:52]  <ajax> yes.
 [13:21:55]  <daniels> Nedlinpopo: probably Window.circulate()
 [13:22:13]  <Nedlinpopo> excellent
 [13:22:19]  <daniels> bear in mind that 'screen' in this sense does not necessarily mean a physical monitor, but yeah.
 [13:22:52]  <ajax> yeah, a 'screen' in the protocol sense is a thing that windows are confined to.  if you have multiple X screens, windows on one can't ever be moved to the other.
 [13:23:11]  <Nedlinpopo> so how does xinerama work then/
 [13:23:15]  <Nedlinpopo> ?
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[13:23:47]  <ajax> it creates a single virtual 'screen' that clients talk to, and splits the rendering requests over each backend screen.
 [13:23:49]  <daniels> badly
 [13:24:41]  <Nedlinpopo> like a proxy?
 [13:24:50]  <ajax> kind of.  all internal to the server though.
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[13:29:50]  <ajax> whoa.  AIX386?
 [13:30:04]  <daniels> isn't the world beautiful?
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[13:30:59]  <Nedlinpopo> what's the constant caled that i would use to circulate a window?
 [13:31:09]  <daniels> what?
 [13:31:19]  <ajax> "direction" i think he means.
 [13:31:23]  <ajax> have you used ipython?
 [13:31:27]  <ajax> you really should.
 [13:31:51]  <Nedlinpopo> i have and do
 [13:31:59]  <Nedlinpopo> it's is the awesome-sauce
 [13:32:20]  <Nedlinpopo> yeah, what's 'direction'
 [13:32:39]  <Nedlinpopo> i assume some #define somewhere has some values
 [13:33:39]  <daniels> probably raise or lower, but i don't know -- i just googled the python xlib documentation
 [13:33:46]  <daniels> so you could probably find out quicker than us
 [13:33:50]  <Nedlinpopo> (the manpage isn't helping much"
 [13:34:07]  <Nedlinpopo> is it common to send ascii strings for that sort of thig?
 [13:34:09]  <ajax> yeah, hmm.
 [13:34:15]  <daniels> i'd be very surprised
 [13:34:33]  <ajax>        direction Specifies the direction (up or down) that you want to circu-
 [13:34:37]  <ajax>                  late the window.  You can pass RaiseLowest or LowerHighest.
 [13:34:42]  <Nedlinpopo> it's aparently either 0 or
[13:34:43]  <Nedlinpopo> 1
 [13:34:47]  <ajax> from Xlib import X; X.RaiseLowest
[13:35:32]  <ajax> aah, introspectable languages.
 [13:35:34]  <Nedlinpopo> ah, i missed that in the dir() of X
 [13:38:14]  <Nedlinpopo> hmm, this may or may not be workign
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[13:53:09]  <ajax> right, enough of that for one day
 [13:54:04]  <ajax> daniels: useful toy: grep -rl pattern . | xargs sunifdef -r -Upattern
 [13:59:38]  <Nedlinpopo> so circulate doesn't seem to be doing anything...
 [13:59:58]  <Nedlinpopo> do you supose i should call it on thie children or the rot window?
 [14:00:15]  <Nedlinpopo> or is the window manager posibly fighting me?
 [14:01:41]  <ajax> Dodji: #ifdef foo, #undef foo?   what's wrong with plain undef? ;)
 [14:02:47]  <daniels^ rather
 [14:04:56]  <Nedlinpopo+ some preprocessors will compalin if it wasn't previously defined
 [14:05:15]  <Nedlinpopo> (if memory serves it's ansi strict too)
 [14:06:26]  <ajax> atropine:/tmp% cat undef.c
 [14:06:26]  <ajax> #undef notdef
 [14:06:26]  <ajax> int foo;
 [14:06:26]  <ajax> atropine:/tmp% gcc -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic -c -o undef.o undef.c | wc -l
 [14:06:29]  <ajax> 0
 [14:07:27]  <daniels^ you should try redirecting stderr too :P
 [14:07:55]  <ajax> it's silent either way
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[14:14:26]  <empLinux> HI
 [14:15:42]  <daniels> GOOD DAY
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[14:19:39]  <Dodji> ajax, yeah, it was for some clunky compilers
 [14:20:08]  <Dodji> I am not sure if it's the sun one that was complaining about that again
 [14:20:20]  <Dodji> but I can remove that if you want
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[14:20:56]  <ajax> meh
 [14:22:02]  <empLinux> Hi, I am using Fedora 9 and graphics is nVIDIA GeForce 7150/630i nForce. My graphics driver is not working default. So i installed xorg-drv-nvidia-173... from livna package. after rebooting my Xserver not started it shows error as 'ABI is not supported'. but my driver is running...
 [14:22:48]  <ajax> -> #nvidia
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[14:40:13]  <caro[vtorri]> cworth: try expedite with: software x11, xrender with exa enabled, xrender without exa
 [14:40:24]  <caro[vtorri]> it would be nice to see the differences
 [14:41:18]  <cworth^ Yes, I'll have to do that soon.
 [14:43:07]  <cworth> Oh, and I said that my chart here:
 [14:43:18]  <cworth> http://www.cworth.org/glucose/i965/first_look/expedite.png
 [14:43:40]  <cworth> Didn't have "evas software" speeds, (which it doesn't), but the raw data file for that here:
 [14:43:50]  <cworth> http://cworth.org/glucose/i965/first_look/expedite.data
 [14:44:39]  <cworth> Does have those. And for the final "EVAS speed" value at least, it is similar to the XAA number on the chart.
 [14:45:07]  <caro[vtorri]> ok
 [14:46:31]  <caro[vtorri]> cworth: you can also try software-xcb
 [14:46:42]  <caro[vtorri]> for xrender-xcb, i have to fix the engine
 [14:46:59]  <caro[vtorri]> you'll see that xcb is a bit more slower than xlib
 [14:47:27]  <caro[vtorri]> it's because some cache stuff, or something like that, that are bigger for xlib
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[16:16:24]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: working on the xrandr bug?
 [16:16:44]  <CosmicPenguin> not right now
 [16:16:49]  <CosmicPenguin> but I'm still planning to look at it
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[16:58:49]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: ping me if you do
 [16:59:12]  <CosmicPenguin> I am now
 [16:59:52]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not groking the problem - see everything miext/shadow/ - it does the same thing we do
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[17:13:12]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: okay, it looks like somehwere along the line, the  pPixmap->devPrivate.ptr item in the screen pixmap gets zeroed
 [17:15:31]  <erikg> right
 [17:16:41]  <CosmicPenguin> intentional?
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[17:19:44]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: no idea... i was just acknowledging
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[17:23:27]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: having to reset-up my test system.  i needed the serial console and i don't have a serial line on all my test machines
 [17:23:46]  <CosmicPenguin> nod
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[17:31:15]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: the pPixmap you're referring to is declared in LXRotate
 [17:31:16]  <erikg> ?
 [17:31:31]  <CosmicPenguin> no - it is supposed to be the screen pixmap
 [17:32:21]  <erikg> ugh, system is unbootable.
 [17:32:29]  <erikg> os2179 makes me sad
 [17:33:05]  <CosmicPenguin> WE try to move the screen pixmap offscreen so we can still render on it
 [17:34:23]  <erikg> via exaOffScreen*?
 [17:35:14]  <erikg> well, those are allocation functions... but in LXAllocShadow
 [17:35:29]  <CosmicPenguin> the exa pixmap is the offscreen where we are rendering
 [17:35:38]  <erikg> right.  so i'm following somewhat
 [17:35:50]  <CosmicPenguin> exa pixmap was just useful to carve out a chunk of memory
 [17:35:56]  <stillunknown> You do know that you normally cannot cpu access a pixmap?
 [17:36:20]  <stillunknown> Only between PrepareAccess and FinishAccess (or something like that).
 [17:37:41]  <stillunknown> CosmicPengium: You're trying to get rotation through composite to work?
 [17:38:00]  <stillunknown> *screen rotation
 [17:38:26]  <CosmicPenguin> it worked
 [17:38:45]  <stillunknown> And now it's broken?
 [17:39:03]  <CosmicPenguin> recently the second argument returned by fbGetDrawable started to be 0
 [17:39:35]  <CosmicPenguin> we are trying to figure out why
 [17:39:40]  <stillunknown> That's because pixmaps should be protected from cpu access normally.
 [17:41:01]  <CosmicPenguin> but presumably ModifyPixmapHeader has the keys to the kingdom, no?
 [17:41:08]  <CosmicPenguin> and fbGetDrawable definately does
 [17:42:27]  <stillunknown> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/exa/exa.c
 [17:42:33]  <stillunknown> look at line ~530
 [17:42:52]  <stillunknown> You'll see the pointer being removed.
 [17:43:23]  <stillunknown> CosmicPengium: the question is why you want cpu access?
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[17:44:04]  <CosmicPenguin> stillunknown: I need to know the address to set up the rotate blit
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[17:45:00]  <stillunknown> Then store the address when you allocate it.
 [17:45:07]  <CosmicPenguin> and ~530 has to do with a exa pixmap - I'm talking about the fbScreenPixmap
 [17:47:00]  <jcristau> daniels: when hal started shipping x11-input.fdi, we didn't have anything in place to keep people's kbd layouts working (so people complained, and they moved it to examples). and we still don't, because bonghits. i asked the hal maintainer to enable the x11-input stuff for mice, though.
 [17:47:26]  <airlied> someone should do a little util to read xorg.conf and write fdi
 [17:49:14]  <stillunknown> CosmicPenguin: Why don't you store the offset when you create it?
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[17:50:21]  <CosmicPenguin> stillunknown: well, I can, but I'm not convinced thats the right way to do it
 [17:50:28]  <CosmicPenguin> see miext/shadow/shrotate.c
[17:50:43]  <CosmicPenguin> we're doing essentially that, but with a hardware blit in the place of the software rotate
 [17:51:30]  <stillunknown> So you have some specialized rotation system?
 [17:52:57]  <CosmicPenguin> indeed
 [17:53:06]  <CosmicPenguin> but right now I am of the mind that even if I used shrotate, it would break
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[17:55:42]  <stillunknown> Maybe consider using exaOffscreenAlloc, that'll get you something in your offscreen "vram".
 [17:56:03]  <stillunknown> That would give you an offset, and that could fed into your blitter.
 [17:57:02]  <CosmicPenguin> again, what does that have to do with the backing pixmap of the drawable?
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[17:57:49]  <daniels> jcristau: ah, the fedora problem
 [17:57:54]  <daniels> no, wait, something else
 [17:57:55]  <daniels> yeah
 [17:58:16]  <daniels> jcristau: you could just do a trivial grep over xorg.conf and anyone with multiple evdev devices already just loses
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[17:58:20]  <daniels> but that covers >99% of the cases
 [17:58:25]  <daniels> haven't you got it in debconf anyway?
 [17:59:02]  <stillunknown> CosmicPengium: Oh, you want the source for the blit?
 [17:59:35]  <jcristau> daniels: the migration of settings from xorg.conf to .fdi shouldn't be too hard. we just haven't done it yet unfortunately
 [18:00:16]  <CosmicPenguin> stillunknown: right - what I want to do is move the backing pixmap offscreen, so that EXA can render to it, and then the rotate update function will be responsible for rotating that on screen
 [18:00:50]  <stillunknown> But, isn't your framebuffer offscreen already?
 [18:00:58]  <CosmicPenguin> not typically
 [18:01:01]  <daniels> jcristau: yeah, fair enough
 [18:01:58]  <stillunknown> CosmicPengium: You feed exa with some memory it sees as offscreen, during exa init.
 [18:02:17]  <CosmicPenguin> yeah, but thats not the visible screen
 [18:03:04]  <stillunknown> And it's not possible to include it there?
 [18:03:19]  <CosmicPenguin> include what?
 [18:03:32]  <stillunknown> Make the framebuffer part of this offscreen memory.
 [18:03:42]  <CosmicPenguin> thats what I'm trying to do
 [18:03:57]  <CosmicPenguin> but i don't want to do that all the time, because then I'll have an extra blit in normal mode
 [18:04:02]  <CosmicPenguin> which is suboptimal
 [18:04:18]  <stillunknown> That is not neccesary.
 [18:04:35]  <stillunknown> What you do is you have a framebuffer, which is offscreen and where you do all your rendering to.
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[18:04:48]  <stillunknown> For the special case you rotate blit this onto another piece of memory.
 [18:04:57]  <stillunknown> Then you point the scanout to that memory.
 [18:05:20]  <stillunknown> EXA will not have to render to this special piece of memory, so no special requirments.
 [18:05:28]  <stillunknown> As long as your hw can reach it.
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[18:06:02]  <CosmicPenguin> But thats 6 one way, half dozen the other way
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[18:06:28]  <stillunknown> You'll have to rephrase that, as it made little sense.
 [18:06:47]  <CosmicPenguin> what you would propose is the same as what we are doing now
 [18:07:02]  <stillunknown> Then it should be accelerated.
 [18:07:12]  <CosmicPenguin> the difference being that in your case, we change the display offset, where as in my case, we change where the normal screen gets blitted
 [18:08:00]  <stillunknown> It's easier to keep the normal screen fixed, as exa has to access that.
 [18:08:23]  <CosmicPenguin> up until really recently, it didn't matter
 [18:08:34]  <CosmicPenguin> ModifyPixmapHeader() did the right thing-  now perhaps that has changed
 [18:09:00]  <CosmicPenguin> and I still think it might work
[18:09:41]  <CE> Hi
 [18:09:43]  <CE> When using a scaling transformation for composition and a billinear filter, is it possible to tell the filter to not interpolate with pixels that don't belong to the image?
 [18:10:39]  <CE> the faded black/transparent pixels don't look that appealing: http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxhippy/Transformations/photo#5224020903104218962
 [18:11:12]  <CE> I already tried RepeatPad but that only causes a fallback to pixman, and does not change the output
 [18:11:37]  <stillunknown> So you scaled a black background with a small yellow piece inside?
 [18:12:00]  <stillunknown> Maybe show the source as well.
 [18:12:52]  <CE> the source is just a 10x1 RGB24 pixmap filled with yellow
 [18:13:13]  <CE> and a 5x scaling is applied to the x-axis
 [18:13:30]  <CE> the black is because the composition falls outside the bounds of the source-surface
 [18:13:42]  <CE> (i guess thats a bug, filed a report about this 10min ago)
 [18:14:09]  <stillunknown> Do you have a small test program for this (personal curiosity).
 [18:14:26]  <CE> sure ... could take 5min to find it ;)
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[18:18:07]  <CE> here it is: http://pastebin.com/m7020a7a2
 [18:18:32]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: do you know if there is a fedora pkg that provides all these *proto requirements that autoconf tells me i need to build xserver?
 [18:18:32]  <CE> however the intel-driver also has a bug and blurs the image also on the y-axis
 [18:20:25]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: i know not much of fedora, sorry
 [18:20:43]  <erikg^ an equivalent debian package would be helpful too
 [18:20:57]  <erikg> yeah.. i lack fedora-foo
 [18:22:17]  <daniels> debian -> sudo apt-get build-dep xorg-server
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[18:24:13]  <stillunknown> CE: I get the same result, i just wonder where this black is coming from.
 [18:25:22]  <CE> I filed 16820 about it
 [18:25:47]  <dberkholz> ssp: having fun following that gentoo bug? we've got lots more that are equally exciting. =)
 [18:25:50]  <CE> it makes drawing a single transformed image almost impossible with XRender
 [18:26:18]  <ssp> dberkholz: Heh
 [18:27:04]  <ssp> It seems to have calmed down now
 [18:27:58]  <dberkholz> thank god.
 [18:28:11]  <dberkholz> ssp: did you want to be on the fdo planet? saw you mentioning it earlier..
 [18:28:19]  <drago01> erikg: yum  install  'libX11-devel' 'fixesproto >= 4.0' 'libXv-devel' 'libXt-devel' 'xorg-x11-xtrans-devel >= 1.0.3-3' 'damageproto >= 1.1' 'libxkbfile-devel' 'libselinux-devel >= 2.0.59-1' 'libXau-devel' 'randrproto >= 1.2' 'libfontenc-devel' 'libXmu-devel' 'byacc' 'kbproto >= 1.0.3' 'libXrender-devel' 'libdrm-devel >= 2.4.0' 'libXext-devel' 'pkgconfig' 'openssl-devel' 'automake' 'libXtst-devel' 'libXfont-devel' 'git-core'
[18:28:20]  <drago01> 'flex' 'libXres-devel' 'pixman-devel' 'libXi-devel' 'xorg-x11-proto-devel >= 7.3-10' 'renderproto >= 0.9.3' 'dbus-devel' 'scrnsaverproto >= 1.1' 'glproto >= 1.4.9' 'libtool' 'mesa-libGL-devel >= 7.1-0.36' 'audit-libs-devel' 'xorg-x11-util-macros >= 1.1.5' 'dri2proto >= 1.1' 'freetype-devel >= 2.1.9-1' 'libXpm-devel' 'libXdmcp-devel' 'libdmx-devel' 'libpciaccess-devel' 'libXfixes-devel' 'hal-devel' 'libXaw-devel' 'autoconf'
 [18:28:34]  <erikg^ haha, thanks
 [18:28:37]  <ssp> dberkholz: Sure, feel free to add me
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[18:28:45]  <drago01> erikg: ;) np
 [18:28:46]  <erikg> debian++
 [18:28:51]  <stillunknown> CE: I suspect it's something subtle that needs to be done differently.
 [18:28:57]  <dberkholz> ssp: do you know offhand whether there's an atom feed on advogato?
 [18:29:18]  <cworth> whot: So ever since commit e317943c my mouse and kbd modules appear to be silently not working anymore.
 [18:29:27]  <CE> I though that too, and read the xrender spec up and down
 [18:29:37]  <ssp> dberkholz: I don't know for sure, but it doesn't look like it
 [18:29:56]  <dberkholz> planet seems to prefer atom for some reason
 [18:29:59]  <dberkholz> we'll see how it goes
 [18:30:16]  <CE> there was a discussion on the mailing-list: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg/30450/focus=30476
 [18:31:57]  <daniels> cworth: erm, are they in your config file, or were you expecting them to get added by default?
 [18:32:06]  <daniels> if the latter, you need to explicitly specify Option "NoAutoAddDevices"
 [18:32:09]  <daniels> (in ServerFlags)
 [18:32:11]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: hmm - interesting - if I rotate first, and then fire up an app, then shaBits ends up correct
 [18:32:39]  <cworth> daniels: I have to specify "no auto add" in order to automatically add my devices? I'm confused...
 [18:32:48]  <CE> stillunknown: maybe I would have to use a mask, but in this case what for
 [18:32:52]  <cworth> daniels: But I'll have to check. I just know things worked before that commit and not after.
 [18:33:05]  <daniels^ it's a little complicated
 [18:33:30]  <stillunknown> CE: I've never used the xrender user interface
 [18:33:32]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: any app?
 [18:33:39]  <daniels> AutoAddDevices -> adds devices found via HAL (default yes)
 [18:34:05]  <daniels> AllowEmptyInput -> don't add mouse/kbd devices if you don't have any InputDevice sections in your config file
 [18:34:06]  <cworth^ I do have explicit devices in the config file.
 [18:34:07]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: yeah, xlogo in this case
 [18:34:08]  <daniels> (default yes)
 [18:34:20]  <daniels> cworth: oh.  in that case, something's well broken.  can you please send your Xorg.0.log?
 [18:34:27]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: so clearly having an existing pixmap might be a mitigating factor
 [18:34:36]  <cworth> Though I'd prefer to not need those and have things work automatically, (without also having to add a *different* option in the config file).
 [18:35:08]  <daniels^ if your HAL exposes devices happily, you don't need _anything_ in your config file
 [18:35:15]  <cworth^ Thanks for explaining the options.
 [18:35:17]  <daniels> i don't have a xorg.conf, and i get devices automatically and independently added through HAL
 [18:35:21]  <daniels> np
 [18:36:12]  <CE> stillunknown: thanks for looking at it
 [18:36:17]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: maybe.  i've seen this crash when we're running apps
 [18:38:48]  <stillunknown> CE: You seem to be taking a NxN picture, putting a mask on filling what goes through the mask?
 [18:40:01]  <cworth> daniels: Files are here:
 [18:40:03]  <cworth> http://cworth.org/~cworth/tmp/xorg.conf
 [18:40:15]  <cworth> http://cworth.org/~cworth/tmp/Xorg.0.log
 [18:40:43]  <daniels^ right, you'll need a ServerLayout section
 [18:40:56]  <cworth^ No change in behavior with no xorg.conf file.
 [18:40:57]  <CE> stillunknown: i am not sure I understood, for now I don't use a mask
 [18:41:22]  <daniels> cworth: right, because AllowEmptyInput is now the default
 [18:41:32]  <CE> stillunknown: I use a rgb24 picture as source and composite to screen without a mask
 [18:41:42]  <cworth> Though then the log file provides a default built-in configuration for me.
 [18:41:48]  <daniels^ just running dpkg-reconfigure should give you a full one, and then specify Option "NoAutoAddDevices" in your ServerFlags section
 [18:41:59]  <daniels> tbh the config file is mostly pointless without a ServerLayout to tie it all together
 [18:42:01]  <stillunknown> CE: then why a maskPixmap in the example?
 [18:42:03]  <cworth> daniels: I still don't follow, though. My config file worked before the commit changing the default.
 [18:42:27]  <CE> stillunknown: bad example, backs the sourcePicture
 [18:42:38]  <CE> forgot to rename it, was a mask a long time ago ;)
 [18:42:43]  <daniels> cworth: right, because mouse and kbd were automatically added in spite of your config file
 [18:42:48]  <cworth^ And the case I *really* care about is the no-config-file case. Does this just mean I've got a broken HAL setup?
 [18:42:54]  <cworth> Ah, I see.
 [18:43:01]  <daniels^ without a ServerLayout section to tie everything together, everything else is meaningless
 [18:43:12]  <daniels> if there's no ServerLayout but a Screen, it adds the Screen to the ServerLayout anyway
 [18:43:23]  <daniels> you could do that for InputDevices too, should be a small patch to xf86Config.c
 [18:43:54]  <daniels> as to HAL, yes, it's broken in Debian and Fedora for different but related reasons (Debian don't have migration of keyboard layout settings from xorg.conf, Fedora didn't manage to fix GNOME in time)
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[18:44:36]  <cworth> daniels: With this new default should we make the log file warn if it doesn't get what it "expects" from HAL?
 [18:46:35]  <daniels^ if you find out how to distinguish between 'hal is broken' and 'we don't have any devices plugged in', let me know.  i solved that one by just telling people that it's hal's problem when hal is broken ...
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[18:47:46]  <cworth> daniels: "(WW) Running with no input devices. If this is unexpected then HAL may be misconfigured. See troubleshooting guide at URL..." ?
 [18:48:24]  <daniels^ it's the ... that's problematic atm.  i should sort that out.
 [18:48:57]  <cworth> The goal is zero-config and the user-experience I'm going through with this commit seems opposite to that.
 [18:49:20]  <cworth> "It was ignoring your config file before---now you need to add new options to get the same behavior you had previously".
 [18:50:20]  <daniels^ please hassle your distribution to fix hal then.  for debian, this is pretty trivial.  for fedora, this is fixing gnome.
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[18:52:25]  <daniels> cworth: i know x has been guilty of a litany of sins lately, but this is genuinely not x's problem at the moment.
 [18:53:41]  <cworth^ I'd be happy if the "please hassle" part were there in the log file, and if I had any idea what it entailed. Like, is there some document that explains somewhere how to unbreak my system?
 [18:54:05]  <cworth> I'd rather have hot-plugging goodness than just hardcoding it off.
 [18:54:32]  <daniels^ there's no document, but there should be
 [18:54:52]  <cworth^ HAL is 100% blackbox to me know.
 [18:54:54]  <cworth> "now"
 [18:55:03]  <daniels> the problem is that you also don't know at init time, since you don't attempt to connect to hal until your first blockhandler.
 [18:56:44]  <cworth^ Even if the message came late, something saying "This is not X's fault" in the log file seems useful to me.
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[18:57:58]  * cworth finds lshal and sees "keyboard" and "mouse" stuff in its output
 [19:00:06]  <daniels^ lshal | grep input.x11_driver
 [19:00:42]  <daniels> http://people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/hal-proof-of-concept.diff
 [19:01:05]  <cworth^ OK, no output from that.
 [19:01:14]  <daniels^ okay, so that's hal being broken.
 [19:01:36]  <daniels> gah, config/hal.c's coding style has been horribly violated :(
 [19:01:38]  <cworth^ cool-ness
 [19:05:06]  <CE> bye
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[19:06:44]  <cworth> daniels: dpkg-reconfigure insists on generating a configuration file with InputDevice sections and no ServerLayout section
 [19:07:22]  <cworth> Warnings about dangling sections might be nice too... (or like you said, just stitch them in automatically).
 [19:08:35]  <daniels^ cute.
 [19:08:48]  <daniels> yeah, i think they should just be stitched in automatically.
 [19:08:59]  <daniels> if it's generating a config file like that, bug jcristau :)
 [19:10:04]  <cworth> interpreting is named "remove" in xf86config.c or something??
 [19:11:39]  <daniels> i wouldn't put it past it.  the config code is horrendous.
 [19:12:16]  <cworth> OK, I'll file a Debian bug report for that part then.
 [19:13:36]  <cworth> There are something like 20 xf86remove functions, and 5 xf86rename functions. Nothing else in the file.
 [19:14:09]  <cworth> But maybe I'm just in the wrong place...
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[19:15:54]  <daniels> hw/xfree86/common/xf86Config.c?
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[19:18:21]  <cworth> daniels: I was in a very wrong place. It became obvious enough when looking around at nearby files.
 [19:18:41]  <cworth> ./xfree86/utils/xorgcfg/xf86config.c
 [19:18:58]  <cworth> ajax clearly hasn't been doing enough code deletion...
 [19:20:51]  <daniels> oh, xorgcfg is fail.
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[19:21:03]  <daniels> i think ajax removed xorgconfig, but inexplicably, we still ship xorgcfg.
 [19:21:05]  <daniels> ajax: could we not?
 [19:21:43]  <daniels> i mean, it's a gui utility, and if you can get an x server running with working input and output, the rest that xorgcfg knows about is runtime tweakable these days.  some parts aren't, but xorgcfg is useless there.
 [19:21:52]  <daniels> so i don't see what purpose it serves.
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[19:26:36]  <ajax> go for it.
 [19:27:00]  <ajax> i don't have any particular love for it, i just hadn't bothered yet.
 [19:28:13]  <daniels> not to mention ioport, kbd_mode, pcitweak, and scanpci ...
 [19:28:20]  <daniels> any reason those should exist anymore? i don't see any.
 [19:28:25]  <ajax> i thought scanpci was already gone
 [19:28:41]  <airlied> nope since someone killed mmapr/w the two most useful utils eva: )
 [19:29:18]  <daniels> ajax: correct you are
 [19:29:39]  <ajax> i'm trying to remember what kbd_mode did, and failing
 [19:29:43]  <daniels> okay, i'm killing kbd_mode.
 [19:29:47]  <daniels> yeah, i just looked, and ... nothing good.
 [19:29:50]  <daniels> ioport?
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[19:29:58]  <daniels> doesn't seem like the kind of thing we should ship.
 [19:30:07]  <airlied> ajax: raw vs xlate vs unicode
 [19:30:21]  <daniels^ yeah, but why?
 [19:30:32]  <ajax> ioport is terrifying
 [19:30:40]  <mjg59> /dev/port
 [19:30:49]  <daniels> ioport goes.
 [19:30:58]  <airlied^ probably when X bongs it on you :)
 [19:31:15]  <daniels^ so fix x.
 [19:31:25]  <daniels> if it doesn't clean up after itself, that's a horrible bug in itself.
 [19:32:14]  <airlied^ more a developer tool.. like when you kill -9 something
 [19:32:16]  <ajax> if, however, you're the one fixing the bug...
 [19:32:17]  <airlied> not really useful otherwise.
 [19:33:27]  <daniels> ajax: we already clean up after ourselves
 [19:34:56]  <daniels> i don't see why we're distributing it, in any case.  if it's useful, then ship it with the os.
 [19:35:08]  <daniels> (consider magic sysrq to be linux's kbd_mode.)
 [19:35:12]  * cworth cheers on the code deletion from the sidelines
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[19:44:14]  <CosmicPenguin> erikg: still there?
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[19:58:53]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: yes.
 [19:59:05]  <erikg> i've gotta get home.  been here since 10am, working since earlier
 [19:59:29]  <erikg> CosmicPenguin: i got stuck in dependency hell trying to build the xserver
 [19:59:44]  * erikg heads home
 [20:00:17]  <cjb^ hey, me too
 [20:01:40]  <CosmicPenguin+ okay - go, I'll talk to you later
 [20:02:03]  <CosmicPenguin> dependency hell sounds nicer then "endless chain of pScreen function calls hell"
 [20:02:10]  <CosmicPenguin> Mabye I can put in for a transfer
 [20:03:41]  <daniels> since the start of the year:  1671 files changed, 90672 insertions(+), 315659 deletions(-)
 [20:04:00]  <CosmicPenguin> xf86SetRootClip (pScreen, TRUE); is my culprit
 [20:04:14]  <ajax> daniels: my goodness.
 [20:06:19]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000.
[20:06:32]  <daniels> (net loc reduction since 0.99.1: 449989)
 [20:09:29]  <ajax> over half the code!
 [20:10:19]  <daniels> if only the remaining 50% wasn't also abysmal
 [20:10:52]  <ajax> welcome to open source.  here's your whiskey, you'll be needing it.
 [20:11:08]  <ajax> hey, so you might understand event delivery
 [20:11:14]  <ajax> riddle me this
 [20:11:45]  <ajax> on the bus home i decided to implement RRDeliverEvent().  radical notion, i know.
 [20:12:09]  <ajax> is there really no way of asking "tell me all the clients interested in this event mask" without walking clientTable yourself?
 [20:12:11]  <daniels> and i think we've farmed out (pciaccess, kbd, mouse) far less than we've dragged in (glx).
 [20:12:14]  <daniels> ajax: go on.
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[20:12:48]  <daniels> ajax: iirc the classical approach is to stash a list of clients yourself in a devPrivate attached to the relevant structure.
 [20:13:05]  <daniels> keeping a list of clients interested in ExposeNotify is pretty useless, e.g.
 [20:13:16]  <daniels> (and yes, radical notion.  slow down, flash.)
 [20:13:47]  <ajax> right now what randr does is stash the interest structure off the client itself
 [20:14:40]  <ajax> with a chaser from that to which (root) windows it wants events on
 [20:15:42]  <daniels> yeah, figures
 [20:16:20]  <daniels> presumably the reverse would be easier in terms of less iteration, but i assume there's some reasoning
 [20:16:45]  <ajax> well, it'll work.  and it won't be any more expensive than nclients * dixLookupResource()
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[20:18:26]  <daniels> yeah, for sure.  it's the tradeoff between walking clientTable on event delivery, and walking screenInfo on DestroyClient.  i know which one i'd prefer, but it doesn't really matter aside from violating the principle of least surprise, but that horse has well and truly bolted.
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[20:20:18]  <daniels> (remedial english 101, save me pls.)
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[20:21:04]  <ajax> augh, screens.
 [20:21:04]  <daniels> oooh, openssh 5.1:
 [20:21:04]  <daniels> * ssh(1) and sshd(8): avoid unnecessary malloc/copy/free when receiving
 [20:21:05]  <daniels>    network data, resulting in a ~10% speedup
 [20:23:51]  <ajax> shiny
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[20:24:47]  * airlied avoids ob debian joke
 [20:25:02]  <daniels> oooh, 2.6.27 includes iLO drivers.
 [20:25:16]  <airlied^ I think they might be ilo pass throughs.
 [20:25:19]  <airlied> for some binary app
 [20:25:33]  <airlied> because iLO is all sekritz
 [20:25:50]  <daniels> not that sekritz, it's got a documented xmlrpc api
 [20:26:02]  <daniels> (rather comprehensive, at that)
 [20:26:03]  <ajax> bitkeeper has a documented telnet api too
 [20:27:45]  <whot> cworth: http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/0001-xfree86-if-AllowEmptyInput-is-on-warn-the-user-tha.patch
 [20:27:54]  <whot> would that be about alright?
 [20:28:48]  <daniels> ajax: try the veal
 [20:29:02]  <daniels> when i say 'documented', i mean 'hp give it to you in gory detail'
 [20:34:18]  <daniels> cjb: did you ever hear back from david at coverity?
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[20:42:51]  * CosmicPenguin gets down to miPaintWindow and gives up for the night
 [20:42:53]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/randr-implement-output-property-events.patch anyone?
 [20:43:58]  <ajax> i wonder what other event types randr doesn't implement
 [20:44:39]  <ajax> bah, one obvious bug in that patch
 [20:45:47]  <daniels^ yeah, assuming you didn't mean to change the types around
 [20:46:36]  <ajax> also needs to not be called RRDeliverOutputEvent since apparently that's already taken
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[20:47:31]  <daniels> eh, something looks badly wrong in deliveroneoutputevent
 [20:47:37]  <daniels> firstly, it seems to deliver more than one
 [20:48:47]  <daniels> secondly, i'm not sure i understand what pRREvent is.  does it describe one randr event, or one client selection? looks like the former, in which case the api is insane, or you want to test on the client's mask, not the event's mask ...
 [20:49:16]  <ajax> it's one client selection
 [20:50:20]  <ajax> client can select for input on more than one window.  if more than one, you have to chase the next pointer.
 [20:50:24]  <daniels> that makes rather more sense now.  looks okay to me.
 [20:50:58]  <daniels> whereby 'window' you mean 'screen', because i can't see much point (besides insane corner cases where you want the logic in the client anyway) in selecting on anything other than the root?
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[20:52:35]  <ajax> yeah it's weird.  you select for input on a window, but the event is about its root; nothing in the spec to say you may only select on root windows, so...
 [20:53:49]  <daniels> right, so you get the corner case of 'i only want to know about events while my dialog is still up', but seems an odd case to design for.  oh well.  not your fault.
 [20:54:06]  <ajax> true, that does gc the selection for you
 [20:54:56]  <ajax> now why i bother to get that right when none of the rest of the randr events do...
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[20:55:37]  <daniels> trying to compensate for past sins?
 [20:57:50]  <ajax> that or some brave and na
 [20:57:58]  <daniels> ha ha
 [20:58:24]  <daniels> the beatings will continue until optimism creps in?
 [20:58:36]  <ajax> the beatings will continue until you fall in love with us
 [20:58:43]  <ajax> stockholm activism
 [20:59:04]  <daniels> 'x: love us, or cop a rifle butt to the face'
 [20:59:06]  <cworth> whot: Well, AllowEmptyInput is the default now, so I don't think we should warn about it just because it's the default.
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[20:59:28]  <daniels> cworth: yeah, but unfortunately we lose either way
 [20:59:31]  <cworth> That is, running with the defaults should result in a warning-free log.
 [20:59:49]  <cworth> But that text would be good in the "num_devices == 0" case I think.
 [20:59:55]  <daniels> either you get a warning in the log saying 'holy crap, you're using hal! this is probably going to go badly wrong', or you do it in hal and when you disable AAD, you get a 'holy crap, no devices! you're screwed' when you, in fact, aren't.
 [21:02:19]  <cworth^ We can't arrange for "Oh my, you're using hal and I failed to find any devices" ?
 [21:02:56]  <cworth> (After the first BlockHandler or whatever...)
 [21:03:26]  <daniels^ no, because config/ doesn't know about AutoAddDevices, and hw/xfree86 doesn't know when we've run the HAL probe :)
 [21:03:42]  <daniels> it's reasonably simple to fix via a couple of hooks both ways, just a simple matter of coding
 [21:04:06]  <cworth^ Ah, OK. I wasn't seeing the layering difficulties.
 [21:04:35]  <daniels> consider it on my wildly unreliable mental todo list (feel free to file a bug)
 [21:06:43]  <whot> cworth: well, changing it to X_INFO would get rid of the warning :)
 [21:07:04]  <whot> and as you said, any info in the log file is better than none
 [21:13:55]  <cworth^ Fair point.
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[21:14:43]  <cworth> whot: It was  tough having a totally non-working X server and no indication of why it wasn't working, (and the ignored sections in the config file that really *looked* like they should be doing something didn't help).
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[21:20:22]  <whot> cworth: that's the tricky bit though. I have various sections in my config file that I don't want to be enabled unless in a server layout, so warning about them is not perfect either.
 [21:20:39]  <whot> I guess a "dangling section" info may not be too bad though.
 [21:22:39]  <daniels^ only if you have no server layout, of course
 [21:23:32]  <whot^ what about a server layout w/o devices?
 [21:24:33]  <daniels^ don't do that
 [21:24:50]  <daniels> iirc a server layout without Devices (not InputDevices) fails now, so this is just getting InputDevices up to parity with Devices
 [21:25:09]  <whot^ pretty common setup though AFAIK
 [21:25:28]  <whot> problem is that it didn't use to fail, since it'd automatically take the first mouse/kbd sections
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[21:25:59]  <daniels> hmm, i guess only add them if AEI is disabled then?
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[21:26:13]  <daniels> pretty much whatever we do is fine, as long as it's documented
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[23:59:41]  <benh> airlied: ping
 ----- [2008-07-24] -----
 [00:00:29]  <airlied^ pong
 [00:00:40]  <benh^ paulus problem with his ibook
 [00:00:51]  <benh> looks like setting any mode other than the native one causes it
 [00:00:55]  <airlied^ yeah I've see the report but not sure where it went wrong..
 [00:00:59]  <airlied> yup setting up the RMX..
 [00:01:04]  <benh^ smells to me like we aren't setting the RMX ...
 [00:01:10]  <airlied> but I can't see why apple would be different.
 [00:01:12]  <benh^ ie, aren't using the fixed timings
 [00:01:19]  <benh> we don't get the fixed timing from the BIOS
 [00:01:24]  <airlied^ more likely we are getting the wrong fixed timings
 [00:01:24]  <benh^ we need to get them from the EDID instead
 [00:01:30]  <benh> that used to work, but maybe we broke that
 [00:01:46]  <benh> I can try to have a look later
 [00:04:35]  <benh> interesting... tried NoDDD and IgnoreEDID, and same problem
 [00:04:45]  <benh> maybe there's a bug with that revision of RV350 and the RMX ...
 [00:04:48]  <airlied> we call UpdatePanelSize
 [00:04:53]  <airlied> which should pull it from the DDC>
 [00:04:55]  <benh> yup
 [00:04:59]  <benh> strange
 [00:05:05]  <benh> I'll have a closer look
[00:05:06]  <benh> later
 [00:05:15]  <benh> after the merge window is way over :-)
 [00:05:53]  <airlied> it might be worth checking we do actually get into UpdatePanelSize preoperly
 [00:05:58]  <benh> yeah
 [00:06:00]  <airlied> it has a check on usebiosdividers.
 [00:06:03]  <benh> I think my tibook works tho
 [00:06:05]  <benh> I'll dbl check
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[00:51:20]  <pushax> where can I find documentation on x.org programming?
 [00:51:56]  <vignatti^ http://wiki.x.org/wiki/DeveloperStart
 [00:53:01]  <pushax^ thx.
 [00:53:35]  <vignatti^ np
 [00:53:43]  <pushax^ is there any dedicated book?
 [00:54:43]  <vignatti^ the DESIGN documentation is closed with this
 [00:55:02]  <pushax> ok
 [00:55:21]  <vignatti> see hw/xfree86/doc/DESIGN
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[01:01:05]  <pushax> so xfree86 is 1 to 1 on x.org?
 [01:02:20]  <vignatti^ xorg is a fork of xfree86
 [01:04:20]  <vignatti> wikipedia documented it very well
 [01:04:35]  <vignatti> search for 'X Window System' or something there
 [01:04:35]  <pushax> ok will read it soon
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[03:43:28]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:49:44]  <jcristau> daniels: imo the first mouse/kbd sections should be used if there's no serverlayout even with allowemptyinput
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[08:21:08]  <evdvelde> hi all, i heard about an issue in kde 4.x running on hosts with nvidia gfx, is it true that this is still dramatically slow using the nvidia driver?
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[09:45:21]  <daniels> jcristau: makes sense, yeah
 [09:45:24]  <daniels> feel free to commit :)
 [09:50:27]  <krh^ hah, you git noob
 [09:50:33]  <krh> you can pass --stat to git diff
 [09:51:03]  <glisse> :)
 [09:52:06]  <daniels> hmm, that was easy
 [09:52:20]  <daniels> now i just need to blog about doing something the long way with autotools and people will assume i don't know anything about the build system :)
 [09:52:33]  <marcheu> `/win 9
 [09:52:49]  <daniels> /loss 9
 [09:53:00]  <marcheu> blah blah :)
 [09:53:50]  <daniels> comedy all night
 [09:54:06]  <glisse> :)
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[09:55:08]  <glisse> marcheu: so still having trouble using more than one finger with a keyboard ? ;)
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[10:22:43]  <ajax> ngrhgnr
 [10:23:08]  <ajax> cgit seems to have lost the ability to give you unformatted diffs
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[10:33:42]  <daniels> ajax: it's spelled 'git show -p'
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[10:52:05]  <cjb> ajax: tried clicking on the "blob: " link at the top of the page?
 [10:52:15]  <cjb> (assuming you want a text/plain git diff)
 [10:55:48]  <ajax> i saw no blob link
 [10:56:21]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pixman/commit/?id=43370d1ce793ef2754c2e6f0fc08e534d4247793
 [10:56:25]  <ajax> show me blob link
 [10:56:37]  <cworth> cjb: "blob" doesn't sound like a diff option anyway
 [10:56:51]  <cjb> hrr, is true.
 [10:57:17]  <cjb> sorry.  yes, you can ask for blobs in text/plain, and apparently not diffs.  stupid.
 [10:57:33]  <cworth> ajax: I've found no use for cgit/gitweb except to give people links where they actually *want* to view the HTML result.
 [10:57:45]  <cworth> The git command line is so much more powerful for anything else.
 [10:58:12]  <ajax^ i just want raw diffs on the occasions where i want that patch but want to apply it to something not a git archive
 [10:58:30]  <cworth> And what I can't stand about cgit's diff output is that you can't even see the equivalent of "git show" in a single view, (committer, commit message, and patch).
 [10:58:42]  <cworth> ajax: Yeah, it really should have a "raw" link.
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[11:14:53]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: exa/exa.c:564 - can you explain to me what is happening here?
 [11:15:09]  <CosmicPenguin> why is pPixmap->devPrivate being set to NULL?
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[11:16:26]  <MrCooper> CosmicPenguin: to catch code paths that try to access pixmap data outside of exaPrepare/FinishAccess
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[11:17:59]  <CosmicPenguin> I see
 [11:19:10]  <CosmicPenguin> That would be me
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[11:22:26]  <MrCooper> CosmicPenguin: how do you end up dereferencing it when it's NULL?
 [11:22:54]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm in a damage update function
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[11:25:05]  <MrCooper> so you need to get pixels from a pixmap?
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[11:25:58]  <CosmicPenguin> MrCooper: yep - the pixmap is holding my shadow buffer for a rotate function
 [11:27:01]  <MrCooper> uh, that sounds like you need to write pixels to a pixmap? :)
 [11:27:46]  <CosmicPenguin> the rotate blit is from the pixmap to visible space
 [11:29:01]  <MrCooper> either try pScreen->GetImage or call exaPrepare/FinishAccess() directly
 [11:29:48]  <CosmicPenguin> I believe the latter would be best
 [11:31:40]  <MrCooper> hmm, they're supposed to be EXA internal though...
 [11:34:11]  <CosmicPenguin> well, I can cheat - I have other ways of knowing where the pixmap lives
 [11:34:53]  <CosmicPenguin> anybody using the rotate code in miext/shadow/shrotate.c might be sad though
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[11:35:47]  <CosmicPenguin> since that behaves in a similar manner to my code; though you can probably consider the set of exa users who need software rotation to be pretty small
 [11:37:05]  <MrCooper^ if you cheat, you'll also have to sync to the GPU before reading though
 [11:37:39]  <MrCooper> also, can't you use the RandR 1.2 rotation mechanism which uses Composite for the rotation?
 [11:39:10]  <MrCooper> also, if it's a 'normal' (not 'pinned') pixmap, not all the bits you need may be valid in the copy you know about (presumably the system memory copy)
 [11:40:16]  <CosmicPenguin> syncing the GPU is no problem
 [11:40:34]  <CosmicPenguin> making sure it is pinned is a good idea
 [11:41:17]  <CosmicPenguin> I would actually rather not use an exa pixmap at all, but this is an embedded plaform, and we don't want to keep the shadow buffer around all the time
 [11:41:37]  <CosmicPenguin> and IIRC, changing the EXA offscreen space on the fly proved to be problematic - at least it was when we wrote the code a few years ago
 [11:42:31]  <MrCooper> you have to tear down the offscreen space before changing it and then initialize it again
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[11:45:26]  <CosmicPenguin> Well, at least I know why it is broken - knowing is half the battle
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[11:56:53]  <jg> ping ajax
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[12:01:21]  <jg> ping keithp
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[12:11:20]  <jg> ping jbarnes
 [12:11:25]  <jbarnes^ pong
 [12:11:44]  <jg> who worries about system management these days for x.org?
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[12:12:22]  <johnflux> jg: system management meaning what?
 [12:12:28]  <jbarnes+ sitewranglers afaik
 [12:12:44]  <johnflux> oh, for x.org
 [12:12:47]  <johnflux> ignore me
 [12:12:50]  <jg^ who is on sitewrangler's whose likely around?
 [12:13:46]  <jbarnes^ cworth has been updating the x.org planet, but I don't know if any admins are online right now
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[12:14:51]  <cworth> jg: bugzilla is generally the quickest route to getting something done
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[13:23:16]  <dsd_> the new swrast dri driver causes X-1.4.99.906 to fail to startup if /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so is missing
 [13:23:20]  <dsd_> is that a bug?
 [13:24:05]  <dsd_> working with OLPC, where we don't have mesa-dri-drivers installed. AIGLX is not enabled in the config file, but it looks like X puts it on by default
 [13:26:25]  <krh^ it shouldn't fail to start up...
 [13:26:44]  <krh> but maybe you can work around it by disabling glx
 [13:26:50]  <krh> what's the error you get?
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[13:34:11]  <krh> daniels: you deleted xorgcfg - I owe you beer
 [13:39:40]  <vignatti^ indeed
 [13:40:11]  <dsd_+ (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)  
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[13:41:36]  <dsd_> krh: perhaps the dlopen shouldnt cause an epic failure on ENOENT, and instead should just return NULL
 [13:41:51]  <krh^ yeah
 [13:43:13]  <MrCooper> I think daniels tried that before and hit trouble down the road
 [13:43:22]  <dsd_> alright, i'll whack up a patch
 [13:44:22]  <krh> MrCooper: how so?
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[13:44:51]  <MrCooper> krh: I don't remember the details, but IIRC it would crash later on
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[13:45:20]  <krh> MrCooper: I guess it's a little tricky... we could fail to init glx for some screens and not others
 [13:45:42]  <MrCooper^ but it would be the right thing for sure, so if you can fix it... :)
 [13:45:51]  * MrCooper is off for tonight, bbl
 [13:45:57]  <krh^ laters
 [13:46:36]  <dsd_> hmm, commit 877e6c35f is interesting
 [13:47:56]  <krh^ well, it used to be that we could either always fall back to sw or not have glx at all
 [13:48:35]  <krh> the problem is that if we fail to load the sw driver, we'll advertise the glx extension, but wont have a driver to implement it
 [13:49:21]  <dsd_> that doesnt differ from when before swrast existed, does it?
 [13:49:31]  <dsd_> on the XO it failed to load DRI2, then failed to load DRI, then booted happily
 [13:49:58]  <krh^ it differs in that swrast is now a output of the mesa build, not the xserver build
 [13:50:11]  <krh> so you can fail to have the sw rasterizer installed
 [13:50:16]  <dsd_> we didnt have mesa on there either
 [13:50:39]  <krh^ in that case you're better off disabling glx entirely
 [13:52:01]  <dsd_> we havent turned it on
 [13:52:06]  <dsd_> looks like X does that automatically
 [13:52:09]  <krh^ it's on by default
 [13:53:04]  <krh> but you're right it would be nice to do the right thing by default
 [13:53:13]  <dsd_> yeah
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[13:53:59]  <krh> dsd_: if you want to write a patch, you'd have to fix the fatalerror to return NULL, and then in glxext.c, move the AddExtension call below the p->screenProbe loop
 [13:54:31]  <krh> so that we don't register the glx extension if some screen failed to initialize
 [13:54:55]  <dsd_> ok, i can try that
 [13:55:14]  <dsd_> i just want to confirm that i'm not changing any behaviour from our old setup
 [13:55:26]  <dsd_> on our old setup, we had xserver 1.4 and no mesa installed
 [13:55:48]  <krh^ for your case, the best option is probably to not compile glx at all
 [13:55:49]  <dsd_> by upgrading to 1.5 with no mesa, and glx being disabled as you describe, is that effectively the same configuration?
 [13:55:57]  <krh> ./confifigure --disable-glx
 [13:56:47]  <krh> dsd_: depends on how you configured the x server before
 [13:57:03]  <dsd_> i have one running right here, what can i look at?
 [13:57:12]  <krh^ the xserver would need the mesa source around at compile time to support glx
 [13:58:12]  <mattst88|laptop> ssp, in the MMX intrinsics in pixman-mmx.c, the argument to expand_alpha() should contain 4 components of 2 bytes each?
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[14:00:22]  <ssp> mattst88|laptop: Yes
 [14:03:42]  <dsd_> krh: yeah i think that is the case, its a standard fedora xserver build
 [14:03:54]  <mattst88|laptop> ssp, so, byte number 2 would be the upper byte for the alpha component, and it would be all zeros?
 [14:04:01]  <dsd_> krh: so that means it is using glx through software rendering
 [14:04:45]  <mattst88|laptop> s/byte number 2/second byte/
 [14:05:12]  <ssp^ Basically expand_alpha() takes abcdefgh and turns it into abababab
 [14:05:35]  <krh> dsd_: yeah
 [14:05:37]  <dsd_^ what are the pros/cons of glx+sw vs no glx?
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[14:05:59]  <mattst88|laptop> ssp, thanks :)
 [14:06:05]  <ssp^ Usually the first byte would be zero and the second byte is the 8 bit alpha value
 [14:06:17]  <krh> dsd_: sw glx is too slow to really be useful for anything
 [14:07:02]  <krh> it's more of a stop-gap measure
 [14:07:26]  <dsd_^ ok, thanks for the info. i'll try --disable-glx and see if anyone notices :)
 [14:07:56]  <krh^ yeah, if anybody really needs glx on the XO, they'll probably want hw accel
 [14:08:44]  <krh> well, that's just my guess
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[14:14:13]  <dsd_> apparently we have some glx users
 [14:14:27]  <dsd_> i'm going to try writing that patch so that we have a usable X again
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[14:14:45]  <dsd_> then we can consider moving mesa's swrast file into its own package to avoid all those drivers we dont want
 [14:17:49]  <mattst88|laptop> ssp, is it safe to assume that 'a' in abcdefgh will always be 0?
 [14:19:37]  <ssp^ That is the case right now I think, but the real answer is probably, why do you ask?
 [14:19:46]  <krh> dsd_: yeah, we could make a mesa-swrast sub-rpm and require that from the xserver
 [14:20:29]  <mattst88|laptop> ssp, I'm attempting to implement fbcompose functions using Alpha's MVI extensions. If that byte is always 0, it makes optimization a little easier for me.
 [14:21:54]  <ssp^ Oh, ok. Well, in that case you control yourself whether the input to it is on that form. If you are basing it off of pixman-mmx.c, then I'd say make the assumption, but put a comment in that it's assuming that
 [14:22:27]  <mattst88|laptop> that sounds good. thanks for the info. I may ping you from time to time.
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[14:49:42]  <dsd_> krh: thanks for your help, i just emailed a patch which seems to be working
 [14:50:17]  <krh^ cool, let me take a look
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[15:32:19]  <dsd_> krh: thanks for the feedback, i made the driswrast.c change you suggested, is it ok for me to commit?
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[15:33:31]  <krh> dsd_: yeah, please do
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[20:58:15]  <aaronp> What the?? Why is xf86_cursors_init calling my .hide_cursor routine?
 [21:00:07]  <aaronp> Is the crtc still considered active after a server generation?
 [21:01:20]  <aaronp> Ah, apparently it is.
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[21:09:07]  <dsd_> i just pushed (with permission) a bugfix into xserver HEAD. do i need to do anything special to ensure that the branch owner picks it up for server-1.5-branch?
 [21:10:19]  <airlied^ http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/Server15Branch
 [21:11:05]  <dsd_^ thanks :) i'll add it there tomorrow then
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----- [2008-07-25] -----
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[02:15:37]  <arekm> eff25430b4a391409e39337962ff7697165d23c7 goot candidate to cherry-pick for 1.5 server
 [02:16:52]  <ajax> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/Server15Branch
 [02:17:03]  <ajax> otherwise i'll forget
 [02:24:05]  <MrCooper^ btw, I'm afraid X.org commit logs aren't appropriate for communicating with Brian :)
 [02:24:46]  <ajax> probably not.
 [02:25:11]  <airlied> MrCooper: I think he also mentioned it in the announce email :)
 [02:25:38]  <ajax> it's just sort of ironic that the last server ever where we really really need a synchronized Mesa release is the one where we detach from needing a synchronized Mesa release.
 [02:26:23]  <MrCooper> airlied: I suspect the same goes for that :)
 [02:26:45]  <MrCooper> if only somebody finally fixed that trivial i965 compiz breaker
 [02:26:47]  <ajax> 7.4 has been a communication disaster all around
 [02:26:57]  <airlied> MrCooper: which one?
 [02:27:04]  <tjaalton> 14441
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[02:27:07]  <MrCooper> the remaining 7.1 blocker
 [02:27:18]  <ajax> hah, 7.1 blocker
 [02:27:21]  <ajax> we rock so hard
 [02:28:28]  <airlied> MrCooper: just turn off zero-copy TFP :)
 [02:28:54]  <MrCooper^ exactly, how hard can it be?
 [02:29:22]  <ajax> i hate release management, i really do
 [02:29:26]  <ajax> if only anyone else gave a fuck
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[02:31:05]  <ajax> anyway.  totally time for me to pass out.
 [02:31:44]  <airlied> MrCooper: done..
 [02:31:49]  <airlied> I had a patch in Fedora
[02:35:58]  <MrCooper^ err, did that disable it for non-i965 chipsets as well?
 [02:36:09]  <airlied^ all Intel.
 [02:36:11]  <airlied> screw em.
 [02:36:14]  <MrCooper> why?
 [02:36:21]  <MrCooper> works fine on non-965
 [02:36:53]  <airlied> because I've tested that patch in Fedora for 3 months.
 [02:38:15]  <MrCooper> could be as simple as #ifdef I915 instead of #if 0
 [02:38:20]  * airlied wonders why 965 would be different than 914 in that case..
 [02:38:58]  <airlied> they both have the same buffer managerment.
 [02:39:37]  <MrCooper> but not the same state management maybe?
 [02:41:30]  <airlied> damn you are going to make me care and try and fix this..
 [02:42:19]  <airlied> MrCooper: now I see the real answer..
 [02:43:35]  <MrCooper> eeexcellent</burns>
 [02:43:48]  <airlied> the 965 doesn't deal with image override.
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[02:52:03]  <airlied> don't suppose anyone has a 965 nearby :)
 [02:53:07]  <MrCooper> I'm sure the people on that bug report will be happy to test patches
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[02:59:44]  <tjaalton> I've got one!
 [03:00:54]  <airlied^ get latest mesa, patch with patch on bug..
 [03:00:58]  <airlied> let me know what explodes :)
 [03:01:11]  * airlied thinks 50/50 on it exploding.
 [03:01:13]  <tjaalton^ yep, will do :)
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[03:22:49]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:53:12]  <tjaalton> building mesa now..
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[04:18:34]  <tjaalton> airlied: boom :)
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[04:18:51]  <tjaalton> the server crashed when starting compiz
 [04:20:07]  <airlied^ damn ... any backtrace?
 [04:20:24]  <tjaalton^ not on the logfile
 [04:21:08]  <MrCooper> anything on X server stderr?
 [04:21:18]  <airlied> on 965 now will see what it does herer.
 [04:21:35]  <tjaalton> MrCooper: if I start X from cmdline?
 [04:21:52]  <MrCooper^ from the crash
 [04:22:02]  <MrCooper> should be in the *dm log file
 [04:22:06]  <tjaalton> ah
 [04:22:58]  <tjaalton> the last message is: X: ../common/dri_bufmgr_fake.c:980: dri_fake_emit_reloc: Assertion `target_buf' failed.
 [04:23:12]  <MrCooper> voilt
[04:24:35]  <airlied> ah doh..
 [04:27:59]  <airlied> tjaalton: gimme a minute.
 [04:28:08]  <airlied> nearly have a new patch.
 [04:28:20]  <tjaalton> heh, ok
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[04:32:53]  <airlied> tjaalton: okay a new patch attached.
 [04:35:42]  <airlied> this one is definitely correct ;-)
 [04:35:43]  <tjaalton^ thanks, building
 [04:39:09]  <airlied> anholt: actually maybe that is a good use for it :)
 [04:39:29]  <airlied> so disabling it for the X server should be fine.
 [04:39:39]  <airlied> as you ctrl-z X server you wanted to do it :)
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[04:43:17]  <MrCooper> ah right, ctrl-Z it was
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[04:57:10]  <dr-xorg> hiya.
 [04:57:10]  <dr-xorg> when building the drm-modules from master I get:
 [04:57:15]  <dr-xorg> /usr/src/rpm/BUILD/drm-git-2008-07-25/linux-core/i915_opregion.c: In function 'intel_opregion_init':
 [04:57:15]  <dr-xorg> /usr/src/rpm/BUILD/drm-git-2008-07-25/linux-core/i915_opregion.c:355: error: implicit declaration of function 'register_acpi_notifier'
 [04:57:15]  <dr-xorg> /usr/src/rpm/BUILD/drm-git-2008-07-25/linux-core/i915_opregion.c: In function 'intel_opregion_free':
 [04:57:15]  <dr-xorg> /usr/src/rpm/BUILD/drm-git-2008-07-25/linux-core/i915_opregion.c:376: error: implicit declaration of function 'unregister_acpi_notifier'
 [04:59:56]  <dr-xorg> doesn't seem to be defined nowhere.. ? ([un]register_acpi_notifier) ...
 [05:00:19]  <jcristau^ they're in include/acpi/acpi_bus.h in the kernel tree
 [05:01:00]  <dr-xorg> hm... possibly needing a kernel-version > <what-we-use-here>  (2.6.23.17)
 [05:01:03]  <dr-xorg> ?
 [05:01:41]  <jcristau> yeah, looks like they were added after .24
 [05:02:12]  <tjaalton> airlied: better, it didn't crash, but the screen is corrupted. want a picture to prove it?
 [05:02:15]  <tjaalton> :)
 [05:02:26]  <airlied^ same corruption? black or a new one?
 [05:02:46]  <tjaalton> new one, the colors seem right though
 [05:03:22]  <dr-xorg> jcristau: well, then I'm outta luck for now .... (upgrade being no option for various reasons...)
 [05:03:46]  <airlied^ we'll accept a patch to use a version check :)
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[05:05:00]  <dr-xorg> airlied: I'll keep that in mind :)
[05:05:00]  <dr-xorg> for now, master from 08-07-15 will do, I think.
 [05:06:37]  <tjaalton> airlied: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/foo/25072008088.jpg
 [05:10:33]  <MrCooper^ are the icons on the desktop too wide or vertically condensed?
 [05:11:09]  <airlied> ah messed up pitch or someat..
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[05:14:42]  <MrCooper> pixels vs. bytes mismatch?
 [05:14:43]  <tjaalton^ correct width but vertically condensed, yes
 [05:17:08]  <airlied> brb.
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[05:28:43]  <airlied> hmm it could also be tiling.
 [05:30:01]  <MrCooper> I doubt we could make out anything if it was tiling :)
 [05:30:28]  <airlied> true.. ah I see a pitch bug.
 [05:30:35]  <airlied> or maybe I don't ...
 [05:30:38]  <MrCooper^ maybe key.pitch should be in pixels whereas the pitch override is in bytes
 [05:32:10]  <airlied> yup looks like it..
 [05:34:06]  <airlied> tjaalton: okay try 3 is up there now :)
 [05:37:06]  <tjaalton^ cool, another rebuild it is
 [05:38:11]  <MrCooper^ btw, no need to rebuild everything; make DRI_DIRS=i965
 [05:38:22]  <MrCooper> or even just make -C src/mesa/drivers/dri/i965
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[05:54:59]  <tjaalton> MrCooper: well, built already :)
 [05:55:05]  <tjaalton> airlied: and now it works!
 [05:55:14]  <MrCooper> yay
 [05:56:25]  <airlied> tjaalton: woot..
 [05:58:40]  <airlied> okay patches checked in.
 [05:58:56]  <tjaalton> some effects have wrong colors, but that's not such a huge issue
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[06:05:12]  <MrCooper> tjaalton: does that also happen with zero-copy tfp simply disabled?
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[06:06:31]  <tjaalton> MrCooper: how to do that? in the dri driver?
 [06:07:33]  <MrCooper^ airlied pushed that to Git before attaching patches to the bug report
 [06:07:57]  <MrCooper> or just using the old workaround in the 2D driver
 [06:08:02]  <tjaalton> it's like the window is transparent with a wrong color until the effect is finished and the window redrawn
 [06:08:47]  <tjaalton> hmm ok, I could try something
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[06:17:57]  <CE> Hi there
 [06:18:59]  <CE> is it possible to have xrender not interpolating the edges with transparent, when compositing with a scale transformation and a billinear filter?
 [06:19:11]  <tjaalton> MrCooper: no, it works fine if I disable zc-tfp
 [06:19:43]  <CE> e.g. this is a 5x1 image scaled 5x in x direction: http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxhippy/Transformations/photo#5224020903104218962
 [06:20:35]  <MrCooper> airlied, tjaalton: so it's still not quite right
 [06:21:53]  <airlied^ it looks fine here.. :)
 [06:21:57]  <airlied> tjaalton: what plugins you seeing it on?
 [06:22:30]  <MrCooper^ I think key.format needs to be derived from the depth passed to intelSetTexOffset
 [06:22:39]  <tjaalton+ the fade-in/fade-out on windows, for instance
 [06:23:06]  <MrCooper+ look at r300SetTexOffset
 [06:23:07]  <airlied^ would make sense
 [06:23:17]  <tjaalton> like opening the right-click menu on the desktop
 [06:23:59]  <MrCooper> it's probably using ARGB8888 instead of xRGB8888
 [06:29:25]  <MrCooper> airlied: or look at the intelObj->depthOverride switch in i915_update_tex_unit()
 [06:29:35]  <airlied^ yup I think I see it..
 [06:32:43]  <airlied> okay fixed pushed I hopes.
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[06:37:11]  <CE> does anybody know some example-code which illustrates howto configure a filter with params?
 [06:37:19]  <CE> ... maybe this could solve it :-/
 [06:37:41]  <CE> just for the record ... google was not my friend ;)
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[06:38:52]  <MrCooper> CE: have you compared with ExaNoComposite / XAA again?
 [06:39:22]  * CE is reading the bug-report
 [06:39:51]  <CE> I'll try it now
 [06:40:13]  <CE> have to reboot, cu
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[06:42:37]  <tjaalton> hm, so should replacing the dri-driver with a new one crash the server?
 [06:42:44]  <tjaalton> anyway, the patch works
 [06:43:00]  <MrCooper^ if you overwrite the binary being executed, sure
 [06:43:14]  <MrCooper> cp --remove-destination is your friend
 [06:43:21]  <tjaalton> ah right
 [06:43:27]  <tjaalton> nevermind then :)
 [06:43:50]  <tjaalton> it's normal that i965 is slower with zc-tfp?
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[06:44:19]  <MrCooper> no, it's supposed to be an optimization...
 [06:44:34]  <tjaalton> at least it feels slower
 [06:44:42]  <tjaalton> when changing the desktop
 [06:45:49]  <MrCooper> what's the desktop size, and how much EXA offscreen memory is there? any non-default EXA related option values?
 [06:47:23]  <tjaalton> 10x7, 1Gb reserved for the chip, no options set
 [06:47:37]  <tjaalton> what would be a reliable metric?
 [06:49:05]  <MrCooper> grep ffscreen /var/log/Xorg.0.log
 [06:49:31]  <tjaalton> hum, 12288kB
 [06:50:13]  <MrCooper> quite little
 [06:50:39]  <MrCooper> also, you aren't patching the server to default to greedy heuristic or something like that? :)
 [06:50:45]  <tjaalton> not anymore :)
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[06:52:55]  <CE> MrCooper: yes, it also works with NoComposite
 [06:53:05]  <CE> it looks now like this: http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxhippy/Transformations/photo#5226902581353624754
 [06:54:17]  <MrCooper> 'also works' as in 'isn't what I want either'? :)
 [06:54:23]  <CE> however I still don't have any idea whether the interpolation at the edges is intentional or not and wether it can be disabled :-/
 [06:54:44]  <CE> yes ;)
 [06:54:55]  <CE> but already way better than before :)
 [06:55:16]  <MrCooper> IIRC it's intended, but don't take my word
 [06:55:58]  <CE> I think too, but isn't there any way to disable it?
 [06:56:20]  <CE> it quite hurts in some cases
 [06:57:14]  <stillunknown> Maybe limit the desitiination size.
 [06:57:21]  <stillunknown> To exactly the size you want.
 [06:58:02]  <MrCooper^ I think the problem is that the filtering makes the transparent border colour bleed into the destination area
 [06:58:31]  <CE> yes
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[06:58:42]  <stillunknown> But what if you give it an exactly matching destination area?
 [06:59:01]  <CE> hmm ... good idea, I'll have a try
 [06:59:16]  <stillunknown> brb
 [06:59:35]  <MrCooper^ it is matching
 [07:00:46]  <MrCooper> CE: btw, is this with a 1x1 source?
 [07:00:53]  <CE> yes
 [07:01:07]  <CE> ... but also happens to a lesser extend with larger sources
 [07:01:15]  <MrCooper> have you tried repeating the source then?
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[07:03:24]  <CE> yes, repeat works in the 1x1 case, but not if I would like to scale pixtures
 [07:03:43]  <CE> stillunknown: limiting destination size did not work :-/
 [07:04:14]  <CE> maybe RepeatReflect would do it in that case
 [07:04:35]  <CE> but its not implemented, and it still would not work with shearing
 [07:06:05]  <stillunknown> some hw needs power of 2 sizes for repeating, as far as i've been told
 [07:06:21]  <stillunknown> A lot of drivers just accept the 1x1 situation.
 [07:06:35]  <CE> 1 is also power if two ^^
 [07:06:41]  <stillunknown> I know ;-)
 [07:07:16]  <stillunknown> 1 is just used for faking a solid fill sometimes.
 [07:07:31]  <CE> yes I do it myself a lot
 [07:07:54]  <CE> it works more consistent than solid fill pictures generated by render
 [07:08:16]  <CE> hmm, would anybody bother if I file a bug about this?
 [07:08:33]  <CE> I tried for some time now to understand how this could be done and it seems theres no way to get it right
 [07:08:51]  <stillunknown> If opengl can do this the right way, then maybe.
 [07:09:06]  <CE> its quite problematic in cases where just one image with transformation should be drawn
 [07:09:18]  <CE> yes I know both opengl and d3d can do this
 [07:09:47]  <CE> had a conversation with the guy who write the d3d-backend for java and he said there has to be a knob somewhere to turn this off
 [07:10:04]  <MrCooper^ I may be misremembering the previous discussion related to this about the radeon driver...
 [07:12:06]  <stillunknown> I once made a test program to scale and rotate an image and noticed no such problem.
 [07:12:22]  <stillunknown> I made it in cairo.
 [07:12:39]  <stillunknown> Actually, i probably borrowed and modified it from somewhere.
 [07:13:20]  <CE> mrcooper: what was its outcome?
 [07:13:35]  <MrCooper^ http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=15880
 [07:13:35]  <CE> stillunknown: ... hmm good idea, I'll have a look at cairo
 [07:13:52]  <stillunknown> I can tar up the program, if you pm me your e-mail.
 [07:14:22]  <CE> yes that would be perfect :)
 [07:15:28]  <MrCooper> incidentally that bug report has such a test program attached :)
 [07:16:06]  <MrCooper> and it looks like I remembered correctly - this is intended (but at least some Radeons do more like what CE wants by accident)
 [07:16:09]  <CE> whats its number?
 [07:16:27]  <MrCooper> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15334
 [07:16:36]  <MrCooper> sorry meant to paste that before already
 [07:16:36]  <CE> ah, thanks
 [07:19:07]  <CE> np
 [07:19:25]  <CE> simply beautiful: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=15884
 [07:19:33]  <CE> ;)
 [07:20:19]  <CE> hmm, so it seems its really not possible :-/
 [07:20:41]  <stillunknown> You could double check the driver.
 [07:20:51]  <CE> it happens with pixman too
 [07:21:00]  <CE> I'll go and play a bit with your rotate-demo
 [07:21:02]  <stillunknown> typically CLAMP_TO_BORDER is used for no repeat
 [07:21:04]  <CE> thanks again for sending it
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[07:25:11]  <CE> hmm, happens there too :-/
 [07:25:31]  <CE> its only visible for extreme scale factors, but it happens: http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxhippy/Transformations/photo#5226911151131301954
 [07:27:42]  <stillunknown^ i found this in cairo release notes
 [07:27:42]  <stillunknown> The `CAIRO_EXTEND_PAD` mode is now fully supported by surface
 [07:27:43]  <stillunknown> patterns. This mode allows applications to use `cairo_rectangle` and
 [07:27:43]  <stillunknown> `cairo_fill` to draw scaled images with high-quality bilinear filtering
 [07:27:43]  <stillunknown> for the internal of the image, but without any objectionably blurry
 [07:27:45]  <stillunknown> edges, (as would happen with the default `EXTEND_NONE` and cairo_paint).
 [07:28:23]  <stillunknown> http://www.cairographics.org/news/cairo-1.6.4/
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[07:29:39]  <CE> good to know, thanks :)
 [07:29:51]  <stillunknown> But that won't work on older hw i suppose.
 [07:30:00]  <CE> yes, I was still using 1.4.14
 [07:30:22]  <CE> I guess it just emulates it through some kind of clipping
 [07:30:34]  <stillunknown> yes
 [07:30:42]  <stillunknown> I think so.
 [07:30:43]  <CE> I'll have a try with 1.6.4
 [07:31:53]  <CE> hmm, have to reboot again
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[07:32:02]  <CE> fedora8 is getting old now ;)
 [07:32:34]  <CE> thanks a lot for all your help and patience
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[07:41:24]  <osiris_> nha: could you take a look at: http://pastebin.com/m476b5016 seems like your fp optimization is failing with my frag prog
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[07:48:48]  <osiris_> nha: the rgb inst I get is 0.0*1.0 + src2.rgb and it should be src0.rgb * 1.0 + 0.0 or 1.0 * src1.rgb + 0.0
 [07:49:24]  <osiris_> the alpha inst seems correct
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[08:58:04]  <sx|lappy> hi there
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[09:24:13]  <math_b> ajax: closedown hook patches badly broke AddExtension, one liner fix: http://pastebin.com/m5602d326
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[10:05:42]  <ajax> math_b: applied, thanks!
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[11:10:56]  <nha> osiris_: see #radeon
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[18:05:07]  <drago01> agd5f: whats exactly the difference between "atom_op_eot" and "atom_op_nop" (or other question reason for having two nop functions)
 [18:05:14]  <drago01> ?
 [18:07:56]  <agd5f^ I think atom_op_eot is End Of Table IIRC
 [18:09:04]  <drago01^ ok
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[18:35:14]  <paperino2323> !addon
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[20:25:50]  <diegoviola> hi, i know this is developer-only channel, but maybe you'll know better, i have a dell xps m1530 laptop, and it has a touchapd, i can do cat /dev/input/mice and i see output in the terminal while moving my finger in the touchpad, i tried the 'mouse' driver in X but the mice pointer moves like crazy, i tried the synaptics driver but it doesn't move at all, X server version is 1.4.x
 [20:32:18]  <Primer> what OS?
 [20:33:40]  <Primer> You sure it's a synaptics? My laptop works fine with synaptics, but I have Fedora, which uses a pre 1.5
 [20:36:41]  <diegoviola> linux
 [20:37:07]  <diegoviola> yes i changed the driver to synaptics
 [20:37:48]  <diegoviola> this is ubuntu 8.04, maybe i should compile a newer version of the driver?
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[21:41:18]  <whot> diegoviola: won't matter much, synaptics hasn't seen a release for quite a while now
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[21:42:00]  <whot> diegoviola: check the Xorg.log and see if synaptics initialisation looks sane or if it complains
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[21:42:15]  <whot> diegoviola: also, let synaptics auto-pick the device (don't specify a Device option)
 [21:42:38]  <whot> if that doesn't help either, file a bug report on bugs.freedesktop.org
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[22:17:51]  <diegoviola> whot: ok
 [22:18:03]  <diegoviola> thanks
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----- [2008-07-26] -----
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[00:53:28]  <daniels> agd5f: nice work with the new atom stuff
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[01:03:03]  <benh> agd5f: yeah, looking at it now, it's a _LOT_ nicer
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[05:56:54]  <ace_suares> Hi, I have some serious trouble with an app that crashes on ubuntu hardy but not on ubuntu dapper. It's an ssh -X session.
 [05:57:23]  <ace_suares> I have used xmon to listen in to the traffix and I have used strace but I can either not understand their output
 [05:57:59]  <ace_suares> or they don't give a clue. What essential thing could have changed between 'ubuntu 6.06 and 8.04 that causes the crash ?
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[07:29:10]  <marcheu> :win 19
 [07:29:19]  <marcheu> damn keyboard
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[18:44:19]  <gravity> Interesting... http://wingolog.org/archives/2008/07/26/so-you-want-to-build-a-compositor
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[03:50:31]  <Q-FUNK> geode_ddc.c:31:23: error: xf86Modes.h: No such file or directory
 [03:50:55]  <Q-FUNK> is that file at a different location in X core 1.1 than in recent ones?
 [03:54:27]  <Q-FUNK> ok.  simply non-existent.   anything else providing the equivalent features under a different name in 1.1 ?
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[04:06:11]  <airlied> Q-FUNK: server 1.1? you need to do a tarball release vs a newer server
[04:06:17]  <airlied> it'll pull in the files to the driver.
 [04:07:12]  <Q-FUNK^ it already wroks against newer servers.  I need to do a backport.
 [04:10:16]  <airlied> backports are done by building the tarball vs a new server.
 [04:10:28]  <airlied> and then using the tarball against the old servers.
 [04:10:44]  <airlied> at least thats how randr 1.2 backports for intel/ati work.
 [04:10:56]  <airlied> it includes the modes, parser dirs in the tarball.
 [04:11:06]  <airlied> and builds  them when it can't find support in the server.
 [04:11:43]  <Q-FUNK> hm
 [04:11:50]  <Q-FUNK> any howto I could read for this?
 [04:12:20]  <airlied^ hehe. howto hwehe..
[04:12:27]  <airlied> look at the intel configure.ac
 [04:12:51]  <airlied> and xserver-source stuff
 [04:12:59]  <Q-FUNK> because geode 2.10.0 was indeed build against 1.4 and really doesn't find xf86Modes.h or equivalent when built against older servers.
 [04:13:32]  <Q-FUNK> ah.  so you'd venture that simply doing autoreconf would do the trick?
 [04:13:42]  <airlied> probably not..
 [04:13:55]  <airlied> I'm not sure geode has all the necessary bits in its conf
 [04:14:03]  <Q-FUNK> that's entirely possible too
 [04:15:58]  <Q-FUNK> but, ok, that at least tells me where to look.  thanks!
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[04:25:03]  <pushax> Can someone lead me to X11 documentation for starting programmers.  www.x.org site is awful to seek out the details.
 [04:26:22]  <airlied^ what type of programmer?
 [04:26:40]  <pushax> any.  probably C
 [04:26:50]  <airlied> well X has client app programming,
 [04:26:56]  <airlied> and server/driver programming
 [04:26:57]  <pushax> I need api lists, structure details, etc
 [04:27:31]  <airlied^ for what areas? client side or server side?
 [04:27:34]  <pushax> I want to make a simple windows manager
 [04:28:11]  <pushax> is there a site that lists all the protocol of the X layer?
 [04:28:16]  <airlied^ don't bother its a waste of time.. just download the source to one of the 50 already done.
 [04:28:29]  <airlied> there is no such thing as a simple window manager.
 [04:28:35]  <airlied> its a very complicated task.
 [04:28:49]  <pushax> I'm not too happy with others.  they are too mfc based or TLK based
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[04:30:50]  <airlied> well you are probably best startign from an existing wm,I would guess one exists close you what yuou want.
 [04:31:02]  <airlied> people have been writing them for 20 years.
 [04:31:31]  <airlied> but to write a nwe one, I think you need to seach for ICCCM
 [04:31:57]  <pushax> tk based, not tlk sorry...
 [04:32:34]  <tilman> aewm is pretty simple iirc
 [04:32:41]  <pushax> ICCCM is about the conduits between managers.
 [04:32:46]  <pushax> isn't it
 [04:32:48]  <airlied> http://xwinman.org/
 [04:32:57]  <airlied> pushax: nope its what a manager has to do to manager.
 [04:33:07]  <airlied> it has ti implement the WM parts of ICCCM
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[04:33:47]  <pushax> vignatti told me a site the other day but my adsl dropped and lost the sources.
 [04:34:37]  <pushax> thx for the site.  I'll do some reading
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[05:04:27]  <airlied> nha: so you might be able to check if you have enough space in the dma buffer for both index and vertices.
 [05:04:36]  <airlied> and flush the dma if you don't in advance.
 [05:05:43]  <nha^ that's a good idea
 [05:06:19]  <airlied^ hopefully when we have bufmgr done it gets easier.
 [05:06:45]  <nha> I understand that each command buffer is then attached or bound to all memory blocks that it references, right?
 [05:07:09]  <airlied> yes you submit command buffer + links to all the memory it uses.
 [05:07:20]  <airlied> so we would start a new vertex and/or index per cmdbuffer most likely.
 [05:07:46]  <airlied> nha: also for bufmgr we really want to have a 2 stage submit process.
 [05:08:03]  <airlied> one to setup all the buffers and confirm we have enough apertuer/vram space to process them all
 [05:08:15]  <airlied> and the second stage to submit all the state changes to the kernel
 [05:11:26]  <nha> from what I've seen, we could just have the r300_render code prepare a command buffer, and then the "command buffer submit" code would make sure all the buffers are available, do the relocation fixups and send the whole command buffer to the kernel
 [05:11:56]  <nha> the question is if we can somehow recover when it turns out that we don't have enough memory
 [05:12:08]  <airlied^ thats the problem..
 [05:12:42]  <airlied> you have to keep track of how much memory the referenced buffers are going to need..
 [05:12:49]  <airlied> and if it gets too much you flush the cmdbuf.
 [05:13:19]  <airlied> it would be a bug for the userspace to submit a single operation that requires more buffers that can fit in memory
 [05:13:49]  <airlied> actually even multiple operations would all need to fit in memory.
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[05:49:53]  <glisse> airlied: i think the best way is to do it through superioctl and get userspace clever when this happen
 [05:50:25]  <glisse> it's time userspace stop being dumb like waiting in infinite loop on cp idle :)
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[06:47:18]  <pushax> airlied thanks for the link before.  it's been a good start point
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[08:15:19]  <arekm> [config/hal] couldn't initialise context: (null) ((null)) hm,
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[12:54:13]  <jcristau> daniels, whot: any idea why the xkb options from my hal config wouldn't work? lshal says "input.xkb.options = {'compose:lwin'} (string list)", and this is on 1.4.99.906
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[14:52:58]  <MethoS_> I call XMapWindow(display, mywindow), and then XRaiseWindow(display, mywindow)
 [14:53:00]  <MethoS_> right after that I make a screenshot (sc1), wait 1/10sec and make another screenshot (sc2)
 [14:53:01]  <MethoS_> on sc1, mywindow isn't visible, but on sc2, it is
 [14:53:05]  <MethoS_> I thought, I could call XFlush(display), so that mywindow would be visible on both screenshots
 [14:53:09]  <MethoS_> but XFlush doesn't help
 [14:53:11]  <MethoS_> how can I make sure without an ugly usleep(), that mywindow is painted on the screen, before the screenshots are taken?
 [14:59:15]  <ajax> ask for MapNotify events with XSelectInput, then call XNextEvent in a loop until you get the MapNotify
 [15:03:28]  <ajax> in particular, be sure to select before doing the MapWindow.
 [15:03:45]  <MethoS_> ok, I will try that
 [15:04:28]  <MethoS_> after dinner :D
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[16:20:54]  * arekm wonders if there is at least 1 notebook on sale with that cool dual gpu stuff
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[18:10:20]  <daniels> jcristau: sounds fine to me ...
 [18:10:49]  <daniels> methowell, you also want XSync instead of XFlush, but yeah, wait for MapNotify
 [18:10:53]  <daniels> (argh)
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[02:10:25]  <MrCooper> whot: your gitk combobox fix seems to work fine
 [02:16:34]  <MrCooper> ... and I see you've pushed it already, great
 [02:18:35]  <whot^ yeah, just this morning I think
 [02:18:46]  <MrCooper> right, thanks
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[02:48:33]  <leszek> anybody has 1 minute to answer a question in #xorg ?
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[03:22:36]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[11:37:15]  <jcristau> bah. input.xkb.options used to be a strlist, now it's a string
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[18:34:19]  <dberkholz> oh goody, libpciaccess port for nsc.
 [18:35:25]  <ajax> there's just no teaching some people.
 [18:35:56]  <dberkholz> i guess that means the weird overlap between drivers covering the same pci id will continue
 [18:36:50]  <ajax> as my dad says, if you want something done right, you have three choices:
 [18:36:53]  <ajax> do it yourself
 [18:36:56]  <ajax> pay someone else to do it
 [18:37:00]  <ajax> forbid your kids from doing it
 [18:37:41]  <CosmicPenguin> eventually we'll kill nsc
 [18:37:43]  <CosmicPenguin> only a matter of time
 [18:37:55]  <CosmicPenguin> and enough bullets
 [18:38:13]  <dberkholz> bunch of ltsp folks complaining this weekend about the geode/nsc overlap being the only thing screwing over autoconfig
 [18:39:40]  <ajax> i'm going to refrain from expressing my opinion of most of the "ltsp folks"
 [18:39:44]  <CosmicPenguin> if people want to use nsc, then they can be my guest
[18:40:11]  <dberkholz> ajax: well, the ones doing the work at this point are nearly all from distros
 [18:40:20]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not one to stand in anybody's way
 [18:40:24]  <CosmicPenguin> hack what you need to hack
 [18:40:50]  <ajax> oh fine, why hold back.
 [18:41:34]  <dberkholz> anyway, i'm gonna get some work done.
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[18:42:17]  <ajax> the pattern i see (quite a lot, ltsp isn't unique here) is a combination of failure to understand the problem and either inability or unwillingness to find a good solution.
 [18:42:45]  <ajax> and i mean, this is understandable
 [18:42:56]  <ajax> i don't want to have to care how, say, poppler works, i just want to read pdfs
 [18:43:19]  <ajax> but if i were selling a product that prominently featured a pdf browser
 [18:43:33]  <ajax> i might take it upon myself to gain at least a passing familiarity
 [18:45:16]  <ajax> i really do wonder how much delta there is between geode and nsc.  it can't be much.
 [18:45:34]  <CosmicPenguin> The delta is the GX1 stuff
 [18:49:15]  <ajax> wow, that's just about trivial.
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[18:53:23]  <ajax> eh, slightly more than trivial, but still pretty straightforward.
 [18:54:38]  <CosmicPenguin> Up to this point, I've managed to find more interesting things to do to the driver
 [18:55:09]  <CosmicPenguin> And to be honest, I've been hoping for a volunteer
 [18:55:55]  <ajax> nod.  i'm not exactly champing at the bit here.
 [18:57:04]  <CosmicPenguin> I have to get cracking on RandR 1.2
 [18:57:39]  <CosmicPenguin> Make scaling useful
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[19:22:21]  <whot> daniels: ping
 [19:23:06]  <daniels> whot hi
 [19:23:20]  <whot^ good evening (or so)
 [19:23:48]  <whot> ProcXChangeDeviceControl sends a presence notify with devchange = 1
 [19:23:49]  <daniels^ sunsire is still an hour off
 [19:23:55]  <whot> haha
 [19:24:22]  <whot> daniels: unfortunately this is the same value as DeviceRemoved
 [19:24:51]  <daniels> sunsire? christ.
 [19:24:58]  <whot^ so we get DeviceRemoved DPNs when changing a control and when - well, removing a device
 [19:25:07]  <daniels^ hmm.  that is very unfortunate.
 [19:25:17]  <whot^ yeah, not your fault though, that code was written before i added DeviceRemoved etc. to inputproto
 [19:25:40]  <whot> add another #define and fix it? we shipped 1.4 with this bug
 [19:25:56]  <daniels> yeah, i think we just add a #define, fix it, and c-p to the old branches
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[19:28:07]  <whot> daniels: problem would be that we have to bump the inputproto 1.4 relies on, after the release. that's why I was hesitating
 [19:29:12]  <daniels^ yeah, that would be unfortunate ... could just hardcode the number with an explanatory comment for 1.4? after all, it's not like it's going to change.
 [19:30:53]  <whot^ ack
 [19:35:23]  <daniels> sound sensible?
 [19:37:32]  <whot^ yeah, I'll prob. just hardcode it in the 1.4 cherry-pick.
 [19:38:45]  <whot> just wanted to get a second opinion before I change "api" in a released server
 [19:40:41]  <daniels> speaking of doing so, the more i think about it, the less the input co-ord change seems at all sensible
 [19:41:09]  <daniels> the bit how xi in 1.5 now reports the events co-ords of the actual device, rather than the core pointer
 [19:41:23]  <daniels> feel free to revert if you don't think that makes sense
 [19:41:37]  <daniels> the spec is ambiguous, but not a good look having different releases act differently, i agree
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[19:42:47]  <whot> daniels: what was 1.3 behaviour?
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[19:43:21]  <daniels> co-ords of core pointer at time of event processing
 [19:44:27]  <whot> then we put the same thing in 1.4 and 1.5.
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[19:45:12]  <daniels> whot entirely reasonable
 [19:46:14]  <daniels> 8259d19f7155d82197ecc2aa16b316376c2dcb12 on 1.5 branch
 [19:49:07]  <whot^ ack. feel free to revert it
 [19:49:33]  <daniels> will do
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[19:52:47]  <whot> daniels: while you are at it -can you check out xf86-input-synaptics please. I somehow lost permissions to push to it, and cbrill as well
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[19:54:20]  <daniels> whot: should be fine now
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[19:56:44]  <whot> thx
 [19:57:01]  <daniels> np
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[21:01:10]  <spstarr> hmm
 [21:01:21]  <spstarr> X.Org X Server 1.4.99.906 (1.5.0 RC 6)
 [21:01:28]  <spstarr> did keyboards just break? :/
 [21:01:39]  <ajax> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456680
 [21:01:45]  <spstarr> danke
 [21:02:49]  <gravity> Urgh
 [21:03:01]  <gravity> The autoconfig stuff needs to be abstracted away from the xorg.conf parsing so very very badly
 [21:03:03]  <ajax> yeah, it's super awesome
 [21:05:45]  * spstarr downgrades
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[21:06:30]  <whot> spstarr: wouldn't the easier thing just be to add a device to your serverlayout?
 [21:07:20]  <spstarr> i did
 [21:07:24]  <whot> didn't work?
 [21:07:46]  <spstarr> sec i had a line commented.. putting back "kbd" driver
 [21:08:59]  <spstarr> whot: fails
 [21:09:05]  <gravity> I've been thinking that having the DIX explicitly call in to the DDX to do configuration stuff might be the cleanest method, although I've been a little shy about messing around in the DIX
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[21:11:52]  <whot> spstarr: can you put up a log?
 [21:12:10]  <spstarr> sure
 [21:16:57]  <spstarr> whot: http://www.sh0n.net/spstarr/Xorg.0.log
 [21:18:08]  <whot^ looks like event1 isn't your keyboard device
 [21:18:31]  <whot> try /dev/input/by-id/..., it's more reliable than the eventX devices
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[21:23:41]  <ace_suares> i have an app that crashes on ubuntu hardy, but not on ubuntu dapper. the app is invoked with ssh -X from a virtual machine (DSL-n).
 [21:24:09]  <ace_suares> I am tearing my hair out on who can shed some light about this problem.
[21:24:27]  <ace_suares> I used xmon and strace but no clues..
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[21:30:37]  <whot> ace_suares: what request crashes it?
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[21:31:54]  <spstarr> trying..
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[21:32:23]  <spstarr> whot: you mean by-path?
 [21:32:32]  <spstarr> platform-i8042-serio-0-event-kbd
 [21:33:52]  <spstarr> that worked
 [21:33:55]  <spstarr> /dev/input/by-path/platform-i8042-serio-0-event-kbd
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[21:34:04]  * gravity smirks
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[21:38:20]  <spstarr> whot: looking at /dev/input/by-path/ Im assuming mouse1 = IBM nipple, and mouse2 = touchpad?
 [21:38:53]  <spstarr> nice, vt switching no longer causes synaptics to lose touch clicking
 [21:40:06]  <whot^ https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=439386
 [21:40:37]  <whot> i always use /dev/input/by-id, so not sure. a hexdump on the device should  tell you which one is which though
 [21:41:19]  <spstarr> ya 439386 got fixed i saw someone added something last week or so
 [21:41:51]  <whot^ yeah, me :)
 [21:41:56]  <spstarr> :-)
 [21:42:14]  * spstarr just noticed
 [21:42:36]  <ace_suares> whot: hi!
 [21:42:49]  <ace_suares> I really can't see which request...
 [21:43:03]  <spstarr> whot: odd, i dont see /dev/input/by-id
[21:43:03]  <ace_suares> whot at the end it says something like 'nothng left in buffer...'
 [21:43:52]  <ace_suares> whiot tha last req before it crashes is
[21:43:52]  <ace_suares> REQUEST: GetImage
 [21:43:52]  <ace_suares>              sequence number: 0646
 [21:43:52]  <ace_suares>                       format: ZPixmap
 [21:44:28]  <ace_suares> whot it gets a reply too..
 [21:44:32]  <whot> spstarr: kernel version maybe? no idea when that was introduced
 [21:44:42]  <spstarr> Linux segfault.sh0n.net 2.6.27-0.173.rc0.git11.fc10.i686 #1 SMP Thu Jul 24 07:15:26 EDT 2008 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
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[21:44:58]  <ace_suares> eh whot you want my kernel version ???
 [21:45:22]  <ace_suares> 4128 bytes<-- Server 5
 [21:45:22]  <whot> spstarr: ok, that's definitely new enough.
 [21:45:22]  <ace_suares>                                  ..............REPLY: GetImage
 [21:45:22]  <ace_suares>                                                depth: 20
 [21:45:22]  <ace_suares>                                      sequence number: 0646
 [21:45:24]  <ace_suares>                                         reply length: 00000400
 [21:45:26]  <ace_suares>                                               visual: None
 [21:45:30]  <whot> spstarr: ah, stupid me, that's a udev thing
 [21:45:35]  <spstarr> :)
 [21:45:39]  <ace_suares> sorry i got it spstarr' skernel version.
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[21:45:59]  <whot> ace_suares: sorry, no idea then.
 [21:46:35]  <ace_suares> Client 4 -->    0 bytes
 [21:46:36]  <ace_suares> EOF. No unsent bytes in incoming buffer.
 [21:46:41]  <ace_suares> that's where it ends.
 [21:47:09]  <ace_suares> whot who could ever be helping me with this stuff ? I appreciate all the help of you so I could get xmon to work
 [21:47:43]  <ace_suares> but this is such a specific probhlem... involviong a proprieatray app too... how to find help on this problem.. !?
 [21:49:00]  <whot^ ah, you'd most likely be screwed then :) you need to debug which request fails, and why it fails, and why it didn't fail before. unless it's _your_ proprietary app, you won't have much luck with that
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[21:50:00]  <ace_suares> whot but i dont think these request win xmin give enough information. strace neither.
[21:50:28]  <ace_suares> whot I think if the app was a black box I shoukld be able to see what it the difference between the requewst taht crashes the app
 [21:50:40]  <ace_suares> whot and the requests tqaht dont' crash the app...
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[21:51:14]  <ace_suares> whot and if it works with the xorg that is with dapper, why not with hardy ? is there some big change in protocol between those two ?
 [21:51:36]  <ace_suares> whot it crashes on nvida and ati and intel on hardy... so maybe its not a driver problem
 [21:51:47]  <whot^ it's not the protocol, it's a change of behaviour (prob a bug) in the server. but you need to figure out what exactly it is
 [21:52:07]  <spstarr^ you're the person who wrote MPX?
 [21:52:22]  <ace_suares> whot yeah, but I am at my end trying to find out what it is... i can strace that app and xmon the server.. but it gives me no clue
 [21:52:26]  <airlied> whot: naw he stole it from my hard disk..
 [21:52:29]  <airlied> doh..
 [21:52:32]  <ace_suares> whot is there another more low level way to trace it...
 [21:52:35]  <airlied> spstarr: naw he stole it from my hard disk..
 [21:52:39]  <spstarr> hehe
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[21:53:57]  <ace_suares> whot my only option is to use dapper as the server, and that might be workable.
 [21:54:05]  <whot^ you can't get much more low-level than the protocol
 [21:54:08]  <ace_suares> whot but far less then ideal
 [21:54:15]  <whot> spstarr: yeah, was my phd project
 [21:54:20]  <spstarr^ good work!!!!
 [21:54:24]  <ace_suares> whot thats what I tought...
[21:54:25]  <whot> thx
 [21:57:51]  <ace_suares> gong to sleep
 [22:01:19]  <gravity> dr whot
 [22:01:43]  <spstarr> Mr. input :-)
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[03:38:39]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:24:52]  <jcristau> whot: turning allowemptyinput on by default in 1.4? ewwwon'
 [05:26:05]  <jcristau> ah, reverted already
 [05:26:15]  <jcristau> nevermind
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[07:49:20]  <whot> jcristau: yeah, i had a number of commmits on 1.4 that I can't remember putting there. and they got pushed too
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[10:30:04]  <pedroerp> every time i try to compile drm (make -C linux-core) i get the error "implicit declaration of function opyregister_acpi_notifier). ". Anyone knows how to fix it?
 [10:31:06]  <MrCooper^ I think the references to it need to be guarded by a kernel version check
 [10:32:32]  <pedroerp^ hum.. and what should i do to solve it?
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[10:33:49]  <MrCooper> pedroerp: what graphics card(s) are you building it for?
 [10:37:02]  <pedroerp^ i'm using a couple of nvidia's cards.
 [10:37:22]  <MrCooper> so you only need the nouveau driver?
 [10:37:40]  <MrCooper> try 'make -C linux-core DRM_MODULES=nouveau' then
 [10:38:16]  <pedroerp^ i'm doing some tests, i will use the vesa driver..
 [10:38:50]  <MrCooper> the vesa driver doesn't use the DRM
 [10:39:31]  <pedroerp^ hum.. so i dont have to install drm and mesa?
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[10:40:14]  <MrCooper> maybe libdrm, but not the kernel modules
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[10:41:31]  <pedroerp> rigth. but when i try to execute the build.sh script, it says that there is no package gl.
 [10:42:02]  <daniels> you probably want to hack build.sh to only build the vesa driver, not all of them
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[10:43:18]  <pedroerp> and if i just compile vesa driver i'll dont need gl?
 [10:44:33]  <jcristau> no
 [10:44:38]  <pedroerp> i mean the hole xserver with only the vesa driver
 [10:45:11]  <pedroerp> i'll try it. thanks!
 [10:45:24]  <pedroerp> sorry for the dumb questions..
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[10:52:22]  <daniels> anholt: wtf does exa accelerate core fonts?
 [10:53:28]  <stillunknown^ Possibly.
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[10:54:28]  <stillunknown> Otherwise the special case for A1 would have been unneeded.
 [10:54:46]  <stillunknown> (special case as in fake it as A8, so it can be accelerated)
 [10:54:51]  <MrCooper> daniels: it doesn't
 [10:55:07]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: if a 10x speedup is 'unneeded', sure :)
 [10:55:22]  <stillunknown> Who uses non-core A1 fonts?
 [10:55:34]  <stillunknown> (what should i be thinking of)
 [10:56:12]  <daniels> MrCooper: vim -t exaImageGlyphBlt
 [10:56:13]  <MrCooper> some apps end up using them for some reason
 [10:56:30]  <MrCooper> daniels: that's not acceleration but just damage control
 [10:57:30]  <daniels^ you have a calling in politics
 [10:57:35]  <daniels> 'it's not a timetable, it's a general time horizon!'
 [10:58:13]  <MrCooper^ if you want to call 'acceleration' something that doesn't involve the GPU...
 [10:59:09]  <daniels^ so it shouldn't be in exa_accel.c, then? :P
 [10:59:33]  <MrCooper> maybe it shouldn't
 [11:00:38]  <ajax> exa_best_effort.c
 [11:01:13]  <MrCooper> exa_damage_control.c
 [11:01:26]  <ajax> exa_fourth_down.c
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[11:01:43]  <MrCooper> there's only three downs ;)
 [11:02:02]  <ajax> right, and on fourth down you either try something crazy or punt.
 [11:02:30]  <stillunknown> Is there a good reason why core fonts are not accelerated, i always thought their A1'ness was the reason.
 [11:02:50]  <MrCooper> ajax: not what I meant :) but anyway
 [11:03:33]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: if you figure out a way to get a pixmap for a core glyph, I might be interested
 [11:04:10]  <ajax> it's not too tough, i don't think.
 [11:04:17]  <daniels^ exa_across.c
 [11:04:36]  <ajax> nice.
 [11:05:36]  <stillunknown> exa_thank_mr_stone.c
 [11:06:11]  <MrCooper> but basically, at least until recently, core text was faster than real text anyway, and it's a dying breed, so it hasn't felt too compelling to put too much effort into it
 [11:06:19]  <MrCooper> don't let that stop you though :)
 [11:08:10]  <daniels> wow, rac is incredibly unpleasant.
 [11:11:28]  <daniels> hrm.  what's TE in XAA terminology, OOI?
 [11:11:35]  <ajax> Terminal Emulator
 [11:11:42]  <ajax> non-proportional font in the GC
 [11:11:48]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: any hints on where to look in the code?
 [11:12:24]  <daniels> ajax: ah, thanks.
 [11:12:36]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: haven't really looked much beyond exaImageGlyphBlt()
 [11:12:53]  <daniels> because, y'know, monospace is poor terminology.
 [11:13:12]  <daniels> stillunknown: please don't send the impression that we want people to keep using core fonts
 [11:13:53]  <ajax> if you can make core font accel happen in a net reduction of code, i think i'd be okay with it
 [11:15:01]  <stillunknown> That sounds like the deletion fairy talking again.
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[11:15:13]  <ajax> who you callin' a fairy, boy?
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[11:18:40]  <ajax> i'm serious though.  the amount of rendering code we've got is vile.  we should be able to decompose all of core rendering to something incredibly simple up in exa and then never worry about it ever again.
 [11:19:34]  <ajax> assuming fast implementations of software a1 mask rendering and BitmapToRegion
 [11:24:47]  <stillunknown> Just the font rendering or more?
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[11:26:09]  <ajax> font rendering, stipples, tiles, wide arcs...
 [11:26:14]  <ajax> the whole thing really.
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[13:05:40]  <math_b> Does anybody know at which point the RAC features were affected by the pciaccess conversion ?
 [13:07:48]  <keithp> ajax: I'll sanity check the randr property patch
 [13:08:58]  <math_b> I've seen that lots of functions in xf86pciBus.c are now just noop, I'm trying to track the fallouts in the xfree86 bus code, but It's quite convoluted ...
 [13:10:07]  <ajax^ pciaccess still lacks the ability to set vga routing
 [13:10:38]  <ajax> because we're awesome.
 [13:11:44]  <math_b^ I've heard of the 'VGA arbiter' stuff, it's about that right ?
 [13:12:07]  <ajax> yep.
 [13:12:23]  <math_b> thx
 [13:14:23]  <math_b> the RAC seems to also have the notion of shared ressources, but I'm not even sure any of the driver we currently ship use this feature
 [13:15:37]  <ajax> vesa should.
 [13:19:29]  <keithp^ check out the RRTellChanged implementation
 [13:19:41]  <keithp> that walks the window tree looking for windows with the right bits set
 [13:22:50]  <ajax> mm, so it does.
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[13:24:25]  <wereHamster> thanks for your work ajax, it's much appreciated!
 [13:24:36]  <keithp> also, it deals with clients which are closed down
 [13:24:58]  <keithp> which is kinda important as otherwise you'll crash when dereferencing a missing output structure
 [13:25:07]  <ajax> so, extend RRTellChanged (and TellChanged) to handle output property notifies too, and just call RRTellChanged() a lot?
 [13:25:21]  <keithp> no
 [13:25:29]  <keithp> just writing a new function
 [13:26:42]  <ajax> are output-prop changes considered to change the config timestamp?
 [13:26:50]  <keithp> no
 [13:26:59]  <ajax> well that's easy enough then
 [13:26:59]  <keithp> he asserts baldly
 [13:27:44]  <keithp> yeah, something like:
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[13:27:48]  <keithp> static int
 [13:27:48]  <keithp> DeliverPropertyEvent (WindowPtr pWin, pointer value)
 [13:27:48]  <keithp> {
 [13:27:48]  <keithp>     xEvent                      *event = value;
 [13:27:49]  <keithp>     RREventPtr                  *pHead, pRREvent;
 [13:27:49]  <keithp>     ClientPtr                   client;
 [13:27:52]  <keithp>     ScreenPtr                   pScreen = pWin->drawable.pScreen;
 [13:27:53]  <keithp>     rrScrPriv(pScreen);
 [13:27:55]  <keithp>     int                         i;
 [13:27:57]  <keithp>     pHead = (RREventPtr *) LookupIDByType (pWin->drawable.id, RREventType);
 [13:27:59]  <keithp>     if (!pHead)
 [13:28:01]  <keithp>         return WT_WALKCHILDREN;
 [13:28:03]  <keithp>     for (pRREvent = *pHead; pRREvent; pRREvent = pRREvent->next)
 [13:28:05]  <keithp>     {
 [13:28:07]  <keithp>         client = pRREvent->client;
 [13:28:09]  <keithp>         if (client == serverClient || client->clientGone)
 [13:28:11]  <keithp>             continue;
 [13:28:13]  <keithp>         event->window = pRREvent->window->drawable.id;
 [13:28:15]  <keithp>         WriteEventsToClient(pRREvent->client, 1, event);
 [13:28:17]  <keithp>     }
 [13:28:19]  <keithp>     return WT_WALKCHILDREN;
 [13:28:21]  <keithp> }
 [13:28:23]  <keithp> static void
 [13:28:25]  <keithp> RRDeliverPropertyEvent (ScreenPtr pScreen, xEvent *event)
 [13:28:27]  <keithp> {
 [13:28:29]  <keithp>     WalkTree (pScreen, DeliverPropertyEvent, (pointer) event);
 [13:28:31]  <keithp> }
 [13:28:35]  <keithp> oh, that's missing the obvious mask test
 [13:29:12]  <keithp> I think walking the tree will be faster than walking the resource db
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[13:41:18]  <ajax> keithp: semi-related, what's the motivation for allowing you to select for events like this on non-root windows?  is it just so the selection goes away when the window goes away?
 [13:41:38]  <ajax> wereHamster: thanks man
 [13:41:39]  <keithp^ generally easier for toolkits to manage
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[13:42:08]  <keithp> ajax: dunno about gtk+, but it was true back in the Xt days :-)
 [13:42:20]  <ajax> we got the change into cairo so it'll do create_surface_similar relative to the existing drawable and not the root, right?
 [13:42:34]  <keithp^ I think so
 [13:42:54]  <keithp> that was for visual stuff though, right?
 [13:43:42]  <ajax> it's xinerama performance future-proofing
 [13:43:51]  <keithp> ah
 [13:44:01]  <keithp> but, yes, it uses the src->drawable instead of the root now
 [13:44:06]  * keithp checked the source
 [13:44:11]  <ajax> in the glorious future of lazy pixmap instantiation, you want a clue about where to do the initial alloc
 [13:44:22]  <ajax> yeah, so did i
 [13:44:26]  <keithp^ yup. dmx-ified xinerama
 [13:44:35]  <ajax> one of these days, man.
 [13:44:58]  <keithp^ then we get flying cars, right?
 [13:45:04]  <cworth+ I think we did that, yes.
 [13:45:15]  <cworth> keithp: Thanks for confirming.
 [13:45:18]  <ajax> i'm still kinda stumped about how to get Composite and Xinerama to play nice together without massive internal changes
 [13:45:27]  <keithp^ noted
 [13:45:32]  <jcristau^ flying cars might come first
 [13:46:00]  <keithp> ajax: I don't think it's massive
 [13:46:10]  <keithp> composite clearly goes 'on top' of xinerama
 [13:46:29]  <keithp> so that per-window pixmaps are created per-card
 [13:46:44]  <keithp> oh
 [13:46:51]  <keithp> that's not obvious at all
 [13:47:14]  <keithp> if xinerama was on top of composite, then the per-window pixmaps would automatically get created per-screen
 [13:47:34]  <keithp> in either case, I don't think it's a huge effort, aside from walking the screens in the composite extension code
 [13:47:42]  <ajax> i'm kind of considering attacking this from the perspective of finishing shatter, and then having xin's "screen 0" be a real ScreenRec that shatters to other ScreenRecs
 [13:48:08]  <keithp^ I thought shatter was going to be a driver helper
 [13:48:15]  <keithp> way down in the DDX
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[13:48:54]  <ajax> it's under miext/.  does that count as ddx?
 [13:49:12]  <keithp> I dunno
 [13:49:45]  <ajax> but, sure, think of the DDX as everything on the other side of a ScreenRec or GC dispatch chain, and yes it's in the DDX.  but that's the point here.
 [13:49:51]  <keithp> right
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[13:50:03]  <keithp> we still need 'real' xinerama code for dual-card support
 [13:50:11]  <keithp> although, we really want hot-plug card support
 [13:50:20]  <ajax> read what i wrote again.
 [13:50:31]  <ajax> you have one ScreenRec that's magical and knows about other ScreenRecs
 [13:50:48]  <keithp> as with the current xinerama code
 [13:50:51]  <ajax> no.
 [13:51:07]  <ajax> current xinerama doesn't have a ScreenRec of its own
 [13:51:12]  <ajax> it hooks dispatch
 [13:51:23]  <keithp> oh, you want to create a screen rec on top of the other screen recs
 [13:51:47]  <ajax> "... and then having xin's "screen 0" be a real ScreenRec that shatters to other ScreenRecs", yes
 [13:52:05]  <keithp> hm
 [13:52:30]  <keithp> presumably that would be cleaner looking
 [13:52:34]  <ajax> advantages include: no more writing dispatch code twice, only one polydispatch layer for both xin-shatter and gpu-shatter...
 [13:52:59]  <keithp> sounds like there would only be xin-shatter
 [13:53:13]  <ajax> not if you want 2x 1920x1200 on 915...
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[13:53:17]  <keithp> the only difference being that gpu-shatter would use a different pixmap allocation mechanism
 [13:54:03]  <ajax> oh, sure.  we're just disagreeing on terminology there.
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[13:54:10]  <keithp> heh
 [13:54:50]  <keithp> ajax: we'd want to start by reworking the screen initialization stuff so you could easily create/destroy screenrecs
 [13:55:30]  <ajax> yep.  dmx does let you do it, hopefully cleaning that up to be general isn't too atrocious
 [13:56:16]  <keithp> unfortunately, all of this ignores DRI
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[13:56:52]  <ajax> rough, innit.
 [13:57:32]  <keithp> I think we need to figure out how that's gonna work though
 [13:57:40]  <keithp> DRI isn't really optional these days
 [13:57:41]  <ajax> i've been hoping that adding GPUs to the randr topology is enough to let libGL client side know when you're crossing GPUs and thus when you need to do clever polydispatch on that end.
 [13:57:56]  <keithp> the polydispatch is one piece
 [13:58:05]  <keithp> the other is dealing with disjoint extension support
 [13:58:24]  <ajax> well there's only two sane things to do there.
 [13:58:41]  <ajax> one is intersect up front and cope with having a limited set
 [13:59:00]  <keithp> I think we need to do the 'real' thing and notify clients when the extension set changes
 [13:59:13]  <keithp> clients which can't deal with that could see the interesection
 [13:59:22]  <ajax> the other is pick a "most capable" screen according to some metric, expose that set, and just fail to black if you move the window to an incapable screen
 [13:59:26]  <keithp> that, of course, assumes that we know what possible drivers would be in advance though
 [14:00:17]  <ajax> i think we can know that.  there aren't any closed drivers that pretend to use the system DRI (except poulsbong i suppose, but it's not like that's a system that can do gpuplug)
 [14:00:47]  <keithp> I'd say we should extend GLX to be RandR aware and report the per-GPU extension list
 [14:00:55]  <keithp> then apps could dtrt
 [14:01:06]  <keithp> and, we'd have some notification mechanism when the set of GPUs changed
 [14:01:19]  <ajax> if you really wanted to be closed-driver-polite there, you could add a DRI entrypoint to get the extension list ahead of time
 [14:01:30]  <keithp> don't care
 [14:01:36]  <keithp> closed-drivers are history in my mind
 [14:02:18]  <wereHamster> ?wasn't there a plan to add a 'gpu' object to randr (much like the current screen/output/crtc objects)
 [14:02:32]  <ajax^ yep.  i've even mentioned it in this conversation.
 [14:02:38]  <keithp> but, building an efficient mult-dispatch GL might be tricky. People are sensitive about GL function call overhead
 [14:03:12]  <keithp> fortunately, less now that we have larger objects, but still
 [14:03:18]  <wereHamster> ah. I think I've seen in on the xorg mailinglist a few weeks ago. Or someplace similar :)
 [14:03:24]  <ajax^ typically when keith and i start talking like this we're doing so in a magical future world where all this shit magically works ;)
 [14:03:49]  <keithp^ it's like maths -- once you know a problem *can* be solved, you treat it as *already* solved and move on
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[14:04:40]  <keithp> ajax: btw, the code I posted compiled, but I didn't try to run it. Does anyone have a randr property event test case?
 [14:04:53]  * keithp has experience with untested code.
 [14:04:58]  <ajax^ iirc the gl3.0 people did some research on this.  turns out for many apps it makes more sense to just queue all the immediate-mode crap internally, and dispatch it how you like at glEnd.  in other words, dispatch overhead means you've solved the problem wrong.
 [14:05:11]  <keithp> heh
 [14:05:35]  <keithp> so we do the poly-dispatch underneath the API and assume vbos
 [14:05:37]  <keithp> I'm liking that plan
 [14:05:59]  <ajax> i would Not Be Surprised if one or more of the closed drivers did this under the skin
 [14:06:20]  <tormod> whot: did DeviceControlChanged and ChangeDeviceControl got mixed up in your last commit?
 [14:06:34]  <ajax> keithp: well, your driver exposes a backlight property...
 [14:06:49]  <ajax> but if you mean code actually listening for PropChangeNotify, no, don't think that exists
 [14:07:04]  <keithp> kinda need to test the actual event delivery :-)
 [14:08:53]  <tormod> whot: hmm I see one is a function and the other a constant, so I guess not. But I have input proto 1.99 and DeviceControlChanged is undeclared...
 [14:10:16]  <jcristau^ update inputproto
 [14:10:54]  <tormod^ but the commit log said "Requires inputproto 1.4.4 or higher."
 [14:11:02]  <jcristau^ yes. so?
 [14:11:20]  <jcristau> you need http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/inputproto/commit/?id=0daf8328cfa90b038753fc409c5eb05ba3fac6d5
 [14:11:51]  <tormod> it should have said 1.99.9.3 then?
 [14:12:36]  <jcristau> for master, yes. not for 1.5
 [14:13:03]  <tormod> I am on 1.5
 [14:13:35]  <tormod> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?h=server-1.5-branch&id=da29a25315b5dc0df4f6e221cf81587efffce4c6
 [14:14:39]  <jcristau> not sure what you're trying to say
 [14:18:43]  <tormod> that 1.5 only requires 1.4.4 but the DeviceControlChanged came in 1.99.9.3 and is used by 1.5.
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[14:23:55]  <jcristau> tormod: meh. x >= 1.4.4 is a good enough approximation of (1.99 > x >= 1.4.4) || x >= 1.9.99.3
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[14:26:53]  <tormod> jcristau: aha, so there's a gap in the middle and theoretically I could downgrade to something below 1.99 ?
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[14:37:49]  <tormod> jcristau: thanks, think I got it. upgraded instead anyway.
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[15:10:28]  <ajax> so i have this script i hacked up to generate the DMT modeline list
 [15:11:01]  <ajax> should i put that in git somewhere, or just upload it to annarchy, or...
 [15:16:33]  <wereHamster> keithp: do you still need a randr output event test code?
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[15:33:53]  <keithp> wereHamster: would be nice; did you see the patch to test?
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[15:38:29]  <wereHamster> keithp: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-July/037245.html
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[15:38:55]  <mherrb> re
 [15:38:56]  <wereHamster> I saw the patch, but unfortunately I haven't had much luck setting up xorg from git in the past
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[15:39:11]  <wereHamster> there was always something that didn't work
 [15:39:33]  <keithp> heh
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[15:54:45]  <jbarnes> merging kernel mode setting support into our driver really highlights how crappy our code is
 [15:55:04]  <jbarnes> well our i830_driver.c code anyway
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[15:59:13]  <anholt> jbarnes: I think the highlight was the eee with i830_driver.c's 1.7 seconds of accomplishing nothing.
 [16:00:14]  <wereHamster+ could you plase comment on http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-June/036215.html? Is there a reason the patch can't be applied?
 [16:01:38]  <jbarnes^ yeah I'll check it out
 [16:04:02]  <wereHamster^ on my i965 GLXFBConfigs with stencil have neither SLOW or NON_CONFORMING flags, so I think it's safe to enable those. I've seen that i810_dri.c sets SLOW for fbconfigs with stencil, so the patch changes only i830
 [16:05:20]  <dagb> keithp: thank you for the x output status  overview.
 [16:05:30]  <wereHamster> the binary nvidia driver also puts visuals with stencil at the beginning of the list.
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[17:07:25]  <airlied> jbarnes: I hope you are merging from intel-kernelmode.
 [17:07:31]  <airlied> and not starting again :)
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[17:13:09]  <wereHamster> are the needed kernel changes queued for inclusion? (IIRC there was a patch needed to add a new shm export)
 [17:13:41]  <airlied^ exports go in with the code that needs em.
 [17:13:58]  <wereHamster> ah right. I forgot -.-
 [17:14:49]  <wereHamster> so when will the drm version that needs the export merged? :)
 [17:15:52]  <airlied^ when GEM is merged..
 [17:16:38]  <wereHamster> and when is that? .27?
 [17:17:36]  <airlied> when its ready.
 [17:17:45]  <airlied> the .27 merge window is closed.
 [17:17:51]  <airlied> so its a maybe.
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[19:27:03]  <jbarnes> airlied: yeah though starting again is awfully tempting :)
 [19:27:24]  <jbarnes> and I'm not merging straight over... I'm actually diffing between batchbuffer & kernelmode and porting stuff
 [19:28:20]  <airlied^ yeah diffing batch->kernelmode should give all the changes pretty much
 [19:28:51]  <airlied> granted you need to GEM up drmmode_display.[ch :)
 [19:28:59]  <airlied> I have some of that done for -ati already.
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[19:29:27]  <jbarnes> airlied: right
 [19:29:30]  <airlied^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~airlied/xf86-video-ati/log/?h=radeon-gem-cs
 [19:29:55]  <airlied> has my new drmmode_display.[ch] in it for radeon its a bit different than the -intel one.
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[21:26:58]  <vignatti> dberkholz: hey dude
 [21:27:15]  <vignatti> planet.fd.o still haven't got my south park face :/
 [21:27:29]  <vignatti> any idea what is going on?
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[21:46:07]  <aaronp> Aargh, I hate MIT-SHM.
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[22:21:18]  <keithp> aaronp: what's broken with it today?
 [22:25:24]  <aaronp> gtkperf's duck test creates and destroys the duck pixmap every single time, and moreover uses SHM pixmaps to prevent the driver from putting them in vidmem.
 [22:26:02]  <aaronp> Clearly we're going to have to get with the program and disable SHM pixmaps like everybody else does.
 [22:27:30]  <mraudsepp> got to get those benchmark points ;)
 [22:27:35]  <keithp> heh. it's common, and accepted :-)
 [22:27:44]  <keithp> aaronp: shm pixmaps are just fail anyway
 [22:30:55]  <aaronp> Yeah.  I was just surprised to see that GDK was using them at all.  Uploading the duck pixmap every time you want to render it is braindead enough as it is.
 [22:31:49]  <keithp> as you can see, it's using them to force unaccelerated drawing
 [22:32:01]  <aaronp> It's not unaccelerated, it's just slower.
 [22:32:07]  <keithp> which is a horrible abuse of the API
 [22:32:31]  <keithp> ok, I've never considered supporting *accelerated* shm pixmaps. You're nuts.
 [22:32:51]  <keithp> although, it would be easy enough on a uma machine, but you wouldn't get tiling
 [22:33:03]  <aaronp> The driver doesn't really care, it just sees a src in sysmem and a dst in vidmem and uses the path for that.
 [22:33:55]  <keithp> yeah, of course
 [22:34:19]  <keithp> oh, as a source, sure.
 [22:34:25]  <keithp> but as a dest?
 [22:57:55]  <aaronp> No, of course not.
 [22:58:14]  <aaronp> We don't smoke *that* much crack!
 [22:58:30]  <airlied> surely we could just map into the GART coherently :)
 [22:58:52]  <aaronp> Not if your SHM pixmap lives in swap
 [22:59:25]  <aaronp> Maybe the X server should start mlocking everybody's memory.
 [22:59:43]  <airlied> you mean you can't pagefault in the pages from swap :)
 [23:00:07]  <aaronp> Not yet. :)
 [23:55:40]  <keithp^ yeah, anything in the GART has to be pinned, but only for the duration of the operation; then you can pull the pin and let it float to swap
 [23:56:12]  <keithp> and, we all await working pagefaulting for graphics ;-)
 [23:57:18]  <keithp> this actually works if you use the kernel to manage the X server pixmap GTT mapping. I'm tempted now to make shm pixmaps do this, but I'm not that tempted
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----- [2008-07-30] -----
 [00:13:37]  <dberkholz> vignatti: hmm, can you link me to a copy of it again?
 [00:20:43]  <vignatti^ sure, just one sec.
 [00:22:34]  <vignatti> http://people.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/vignatti-southpark.png
 [00:22:41]  <vignatti> ajax: ping
 [00:26:30]  <dberkholz^ good now.
 [00:26:36]  <dberkholz> looks like it somehow got corrupted last time
 [00:29:11]  <keithp+ that's quite a hat
 [00:29:21]  <keithp> dberkholz: and, who can say that it's not still corrupted?
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[00:30:27]  <dberkholz> keithp: well, the person behind the image may be =)
[00:31:22]  <keithp^ he's becoming a kernel developer; he'll soon leave our rag-tag band
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[00:38:11]  <dberkholz> oh noes
 [00:38:35]  <dberkholz> keithp: btw, you missed some outstanding brazilian whatever-it-is the other night
 [00:38:56]  <keithp^ yeah, I'm sure.
 [00:39:12]  <keithp> I've never had brazilian outside of brazil, actually :-)
 [00:39:21]  <keithp> and, missed even that this year
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[00:51:36]  <vignatti> heh
 [00:51:51]  <vignatti> keithp: did you like the hat? :)
 [00:52:02]  <keithp^ I like that party hat
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[00:53:39]  <vignatti> dberkholz: what was the "outstanding brazilian"?
 [00:53:51]  <dberkholz^ a place in portland
 [00:54:08]  * vignatti curious to know
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[00:54:11]  <keithp> vignatti: portland has a churrascaria
 [00:55:58]  <keithp> http://www.brazilgrillrestaurant.com/
 [00:56:27]  <vignatti^ awesome
 [00:56:39]  <vignatti> good luck for our friend veggies :)
 [00:56:48]  <keithp^ hey, they serve vegetarians there
 [00:57:04]  <vignatti> oh, i don't believe
 [00:58:07]  <dberkholz> there's a salad bar
 [00:59:00]  <whot> The braz. bbq was the first time in my life that I had too much meat. Didn't think it was possible, but they sure showed me.
 [01:02:45]  <vignatti^ you guys really need to come here to brazil. It will be my pleasure to do bbq for you only with meat -- bleeding meat for who like
 [01:03:13]  <vignatti> keithp: jesus, $31.95 the price
 [01:03:38]  <keithp^ cows are vegetarians
 [01:03:47]  <keithp> yeah, US prices are outrageous
 [01:03:49]  <vignatti> you can eat in the best churrascaria here in my city for about $20
 [01:04:04]  <keithp^ I'm sure -- I've been to porto allegre
 [01:04:08]  <whot+ hehe. same here with an ozzie bbq if you make it over here. less meat, more hoofes and assholes (i.e. sausages)
 [01:04:40]  <keithp^ brazil ftw
 [01:04:53]  <airlied> kangaroo ftw :)
 [01:05:02]  <keithp> whot: also, crazy pizza too
 [01:05:13]  <vignatti> heh
 [01:05:15]  <whot> airlied: australian sausages ftl
 [01:05:26]  <airlied^ yes they are fail.
 [01:05:34]  <airlied> need to get a good butcher with pork sausages.
 [01:05:43]  <whot^ btw - wallaby shank. if you can get your hands on one - tasty
 [01:06:05]  <whot> meh. found a butcher that sells austrian-style cheese kranskies. what more could I possibly want
 [01:06:20]  <airlied^ a butcher in Brisbane that sells them :)
 [01:06:48]  <whot> excellent. hope it passes my rigourous testing :)
 [01:07:01]  <airlied^ no I think you need to find one :)
 [01:07:12]  <airlied> granted I'm sure someone in the office knows one ..
 [01:08:13]  <whot^ well, the guys in the lab tried to tell me woolies sells cheese kranskies...
 [01:08:49]  <airlied^ yeah that would be fail..
 [01:08:50]  <whot> i'm not trusting australians ever again on where to get snags
 [01:09:12]  <airlied> well they think beef is acceptable in sauasges its not a good start.
 [01:09:49]  <whot> i'm more worried about sawdust and ... animal by-products
 [01:14:13]  <airlied^ so normal sausage ingredients then :)
 [01:15:18]  <keithp^ weisswurst
 [01:15:26]  * whot drools
 [01:15:42]  <keithp^ there's a couple of places in pdx that make decent sausage
 [01:16:01]  <whot^ weisswurst + beer for breakfast - great start into the day :)
 [01:16:13]  <keithp> one place makes everything from scratch -- including the kraut and spaetzle
 [01:16:34]  <keithp> plus a decent local lager
 [01:16:37]  <whot> ooh, spaetzle. I should make them again, thanks for reminding me.
 [01:17:07]  <keithp> airlied: we should hit german during lpc
 [01:17:25]  <keithp> plus, fairly good strudel
 [01:20:01]  <keithp> hmm. seems like #xorg-devel returns to form
 [01:20:12]  <keithp> we're all about the food
 [01:20:47]  <whot^ eating in many ways yields better results than x hacking
 [01:20:57]  <keithp^ sad, but true
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[03:09:40]  <MrCooper> whot: did you see my evdev endianness fix patch?
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[03:32:06]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:34:39]  <MrCooper> whot: I see you just pushed it, thanks!
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[03:42:45]  <geaaru> hi at all, i have a question but i don't know if is correct for this channel. I use a gentoo and i installed xorg-server version from git as drm kernel module and mesa/ati drivers
 [03:43:34]  <geaaru> now i can use compiz but with indirect-rendering. Is it possible use direct rendering with compiz with new ati driver?
 [03:43:56]  <geaaru> thanks in advance
 [03:43:56]  <jcristau> no
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[03:46:51]  <geaaru> why? (if you can said me something). Is there a problem of compliant between compiz and ati driver? Because without compiz direct rendering seems to be enabled (or is it only a fake glxinfo message?)
 [03:47:53]  <MrCooper^ GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap only works with indirect rendering without DRI2
 [03:48:16]  <MrCooper> that only affects compiz though, not other apps
 [03:48:34]  <MrCooper> and it shouldn't matter too much for compiz
 [03:52:21]  <geaaru> ah ok, thanks for reply. So, other applications that use direct rendering like mplayer or other use acceleration also if compiz is enabled?
 [03:53:12]  <geaaru> because on glxinfo direct rendering is to no for LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT
 [03:53:30]  <MrCooper> you only need to set that variable for the compiz process
 [03:53:44]  <MrCooper> there are compiz wrapper scripts which take care of it automagically
 [03:54:16]  <geaaru> ok thank very much
 [03:54:57]  <MrCooper> np
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[05:31:00]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo.
[05:31:05]  <daniels> http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/xds/xds-2008-07-30-12-34.html
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[05:33:26]  <arekm> glyph cache could be merged... a lot of time for testing and even one rc in meantime happened
 [05:34:08]  <daniels^ that might just mean that it's time for a 1.6 rc.
 [05:34:13]  <daniels> s/rc/zomgprealpha/
 [05:34:32]  <MrCooper> arekm: what rc contained the glyph cache?
 [05:34:37]  <airlied> none..
 [05:34:40]  <jcristau> MrCooper: none
 [05:34:40]  <arekm+ none
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[05:35:22]  <arekm> daniels: I hope you menat 1.5.1
[05:35:29]  <MrCooper^ so what did you mean by 'even one rc in meantime happened' ?
 [05:36:16]  <arekm^ between /me whining about glyph cache merge and current time
 [05:36:58]  <MrCooper> k, I guess I don't see how an rc without the glyph cache is relevant for merging it :)
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[05:37:31]  <jcristau> hrm. /me has to be in lisbon on sep 1-12, so no xds for me this year either :(
 [05:37:43]  <arekm> if it would be merged back then, then we would have one rc with cache ;)
 [05:38:34]  <airlied> yeah I should have pushed it into 1.5 back then.
 [05:38:47]  <airlied> I'm going to ship it in F10 in any case.
 [05:40:05]  <arekm> don't forget to push it after 1.5.0 is released so there will be a chance for 1.5.1 (but who knows, maybe 1.6 will be faster)
 [05:42:17]  <daniels^ no, i meant 1.6
 [05:42:31]  <daniels> anyone who wants to do 1.5.1 (hint: not me) is welcome
 [05:42:47]  <daniels> jcristau: ah :\
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[06:45:19]  <jcristau> daniels: i guess i'd rather have people confused by unused <default pointer> and <default keyboard> than confused because they got X up with no keyboard and mouse. but if that's just me, then ok :)
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[07:24:56]  <daniels> jcristau: maybe i'm just an idealist, but i'd rather things worked reliably, rather than being unbelievably defeatist and assuming everything's going to fail, and setting up fallbacks for when it does
 [07:25:02]  <daniels> but maybe this is just the difference between distro and upstream
 [07:28:42]  <Dr_Jakob^ congrats to the xds announcement, keep up the good work.
 [07:29:30]  <daniels> heh, thanks
 [07:31:51]  <Company^ speaking of xds, how interested are you in having users of X there? I've been wondering if me being there representing the needs from vector-graphics stuff like Flash would be useful
 [07:32:19]  <daniels^ sure
 [07:33:26]  <Company^ do you have sponsorship?
 [07:34:19]  <daniels^ we'll have some amount, but it depends on how much sponsorship we get from other companies, how many other people apply, etc
 [07:35:25]  <Company> kinda sucky that i'm away on holidays for 3 weeks starting tomorrow :o
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[07:40:48]  <daniels> heh
 [07:43:36]  <nha> that was indeed hideously late ;)
 [07:47:16]  <daniels> you're telling me
 [07:47:26]  <daniels> only got final confirmation today, long story
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[07:48:09]  <daniels> was hoping to have the announce out early or mid june, but a combination of me and two other people being rubbish, and then our contact person being on holiday, screwed that up
 [07:49:16]  <nha> I would have liked to go, but to be fair I had something scheduled for the first two weeks of september since may, so it wouldn't have changed anything for me
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[07:51:34]  <JohnFlux> The xds is at the zoo??
 [07:52:29]  <daniels> yep
 [07:53:23]  <daniels> it only seemed appropriate
 [07:55:01]  <Dr_Jakob> I wonder how many devs get stuck there.
 [07:58:38]  <JohnFlux> i saw a film along those lines
 [07:58:44]  <JohnFlux> some kids got stuck in a zoo
 [07:59:02]  <JohnFlux> i think the animals started talking or something
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[08:01:44]  <marcheu> JohnFlux: I can only hope they let us out, instead of throwing us back into the monkey cage
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[08:03:09]  <jcristau> the monkeys will complain if they do that
 [08:04:05]  <daniels> http://xkcd.com/456/ is quite good
 [08:05:15]  <nha> An xorg is something that is always able to find a bar.
 [08:05:19]  <marcheu> seems like the xorg devs got stuck at week two
 [08:05:39]  <Dr_Jakob> The alt text is depressingly true.
 [08:08:38]  <marcheu> btw who already has plans for xds ?
 [08:09:00]  <daniels> _o/
 [08:09:11]  <JohnFlux> o
 [08:09:13]  <JohnFlux> (no hands)
 [08:09:27]  <JohnFlux> okay I've just requested permission from the company to attend
 [08:09:32]  <daniels> i think i have to get the friday night train down to london though
 [08:09:37]  <marcheu^ but http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Attendees
 [08:10:12]  <daniels^ oddly enough, i'm spending work time doing _work_ at the moment :P
 [08:10:29]  <JohnFlux^ i try to avoid doing that :-D
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[08:54:24]  <libv> daniels: why not create a mailing list called xds and re-use it every year?
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[08:54:53]  <daniels> i haven't created one called xds2008, and was planning to create events@lists.x.org or similar
 [08:56:11]  <Dr_Jakob> Hmm yeah, I just copied the XDS2007/Attendees page and swapped all 7s for 8s when I created the XDS2008/Attendees page
 [08:58:31]  <daniels> not to worry, i'll fix it up tonight
 [08:58:32]  <daniels> thanks
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[09:03:31]  <Dr_Jakob> ok cool
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[09:22:58]  <xorg62> hi
 [09:23:12]  <xorg62> is anyone can help me with the Xlib plz ?
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[09:27:59]  <ajax> depends on what you need help with.
 [09:28:41]  <xorg62> actually , i'm making a little wm
[09:28:49]  <xorg62> and i've a little problem
 [09:32:54]  <Lrrr^ ask away or people will get bored
 [09:33:29]  <xorg62> yes
 [09:34:23]  <xorg62> so , in the FocunIn event , i want that event.xfocus.window = focus (Window focus) , but i can't use it in an other function :/
 [09:34:30]  <xorg62> i get a badWindow error
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[09:37:45]  <sini> hi, anyone awake?
 [09:37:48]  <sini> :)
 [09:37:50]  <benjsc> daniels: ironically xds2008  is already getting spam
 [09:38:16]  <daniels> jesus, that was quick
 [09:38:19]  <daniels> it doesn't even exist yet!
 [09:38:23]  <sini> i'm having strange problems enabling DRI on an ATI rage128
 [09:39:08]  <daniels^ it should just work out of the box
 [09:39:17]  <sini> when DRI gets enabled Xorg hangs and Xorg.0.log get's dfilled with these messages:
 [09:39:21]  <sini> (EE) R128(0): R128CCEWaitForIdle: (DEBUG) CCE idle took i = 1025
 [09:39:28]  <sini> (EE) R128(0): Idle timed out, resetting engine...
 [09:40:09]  <sini> daniels, i thought so too... searched the whole day solutions.. wihtout any luck till now
 [09:40:56]  <sini> i've found dicussions of ppc-users with a similiar problem, which they worked around by disabling dri
 [09:42:09]  <sini> so, does anybody know what the CCE in R128CCEWaitForIdle is?!
 [09:42:25]  <benjsc^ in the old days my r128 was detected with the wrong amoung of mem which caused all sorts of problems - s yours detected correctly?
 [09:42:36]  <ajax> it's the r128 word for what radeon calls the "CP", or command processor.
 [09:42:45]  <ajax> (mutter) command engine, iirc.
 [09:42:50]  <sini^ thx
 [09:43:03]  <ajax> anyway, it means the driver's broken.  sorry about that.
 [09:43:17]  <sini> benjsc, lemme see, didn't check that yet
 [09:45:11]  <benjsc> daniels: ah, it was xdc2008
 [09:47:24]  <daniels^ sorry about having been so slack with the moderating over the past couple of weeks, btw
 [09:48:04]  <ajax> vignatti: pong
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[09:48:45]  <benjsc> daniels: np, there's lots of lists that I don't think there is any moderators for - think we need to clean some up eventually
 [09:51:02]  <daniels> yeah
 [09:55:49]  <sini> is it possible, that Xorg or the r128 module mistakes my graphics card for a PCI card, although it is an agp card?
 [09:56:06]  <sini> i have a lot of pci-related lines in my Xorg.log
 [10:02:20]  <daniels^ no, that's fine
 [10:02:31]  <daniels> what's happened is that, due to a driver bug, the card is falling over and dying
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[10:03:57]  <sini> daniels, are you sure about that? is there nothing i can do?
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[10:04:06]  <sini> except turnign of dri
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[10:06:23]  <daniels> yeah
 [10:06:33]  <daniels> well, you could find the problem and fix the driver, i guess
 [10:07:14]  <sini> is r128 being developed anymore?
 [10:07:28]  <benjsc^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-r128/
 [10:07:31]  <rnoland> daniels: do you see anything obvious...
 [10:07:57]  <rnoland> If i can fix it in a few minutes... i have time... otherwise...
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[10:08:06]  <Davinci2008> I have an error on xorg
 [10:08:08]  <Davinci2008> http://pastebin.com/d33b4ffa2
 [10:08:30]  <Davinci2008> the error happens when I try to execute a ffmpeg + libswscale app, to play a video
 [10:08:39]  <Davinci2008> it also happens with a smpeg app doing the same
 [10:09:03]  <Davinci2008> uname -a: Linux DAVINCI-UBUTUS 2.6.24-19-generic #1 SMP Fri Jul 11 23:41:49 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
 [10:10:28]  <benjsc> sini: r128_accel.c has that exact error message..
[10:11:17]  <benjsc> Davinci2008: what ever player your using is doing bad things
 [10:11:27]  <Davinci2008> maybe not
 [10:11:30]  <Davinci2008> I use ffplay...
 [10:11:49]  <Davinci2008> it is very good actually, but only crashes when configured with --enable-swscale
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[10:12:18]  <Davinci2008> but I need ffmpeg with that support
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[10:12:25]  <Davinci2008> for an app of mine, that also crashes, by the way
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[10:13:11]  <Davinci2008> on google, my error has 16300 matches...
 [10:13:18]  <Davinci2008> they also get it with wine, xine, VMware
 [10:13:24]  <Davinci2008> so, it is not my player...
 [10:13:29]  <Davinci2008> it is xorg problem
 [10:13:36]  <Davinci2008> or maybe a video card problem...
 [10:13:51]  <Davinci2008> my problem is with nvidia card but on the net they got the same error with ati too
 [10:13:53]  <Davinci2008> so, I am lost
 [10:14:05]  <Davinci2008> maybe some xorg developer or user here can help me
 [10:14:13]  <Davinci2008> at least, replicating the error on his machine
 [10:14:18]  <benjsc^ BadMatch is normally something passed wrongly into an X function call.. do all the apps share a common lib? perhaps libswscale
 [10:14:41]  <Davinci2008> no
 [10:14:57]  <Davinci2008> I have another app using smpeg, which has nothing to do with that lib or ffmpeg...
 [10:15:02]  <benjsc^ Your best bet is file a bug with as much detail as you can at bugs.freedesktop.org if you believe it is an xorg issue
 [10:15:04]  <Davinci2008> they dont share the same libraries
 [10:15:09]  <Davinci2008> maybe they only share SDL
 [10:15:15]  <Davinci2008> cool
 [10:15:23]  <Davinci2008> yes, I will make a big paste
 [10:16:29]  <Davinci2008> they have that bug there too
 [10:17:06]  <Davinci2008> well, not exactly
 [10:24:21]  <Davinci2008> I will change my video card and submit the bug
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[10:27:39]  <Davinci2008> thanks for all the advice
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[10:55:13]  <vignatti> ajax: hey ajax, I have one more fun to decrease the loc of the xserver :)
 [10:55:34]  <vignatti> I updated my version of libx86 and did another bugfix merge with current x86emu code of Xorg
 [10:55:50]  <ajax^ my hero!
 [10:55:57]  <vignatti> basically libx86 is a library with two backends (vm86 and x86emu) and it also has that lrmi interface
 [10:56:16]  <ajax> yeah, i'm familiar
 [10:56:42]  <vignatti> so, I was thinking if it could fits better separating in three libraries (vm86, x86emu and libx86)
[10:57:04]  <ajax> eh.  i'm in favor of ignoring vm86 altogether.
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[10:57:13]  <vignatti> because link xorg against libx86 it doesn't make much sense
 [10:57:16]  <vignatti> cool
 [10:57:23]  <ajax> i have a nice long rant somewhere about why it's insane to use
 [10:57:36]  <vignatti> so libx86 would depends of vm86 and x86emu
 [10:57:50]  <ajax> but yeah.  mjg59's gonna be in town this week, we were going to poke at libx86 stuff
 [10:58:25]  <vignatti> so we can link xserver against x86emu and get 25k minus of loc :)
 [10:58:36]  <vignatti> ajax: anyway, i'll try to get some patches for you two
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[10:59:07]  <dante> bad developers make me cry.
 [10:59:36]  <daniels> bad project managers doubly so
 [10:59:45]  <vignatti> ajax: it would be awesome if Xorg could use the lrmi, ending up with just one api on server to execute real mode x86 things
 [11:00:05]  <ajax^ yeah, lrmi's not really sufficient as is though.
 [11:00:21]  <ajax> doesn't have a way to tell it which pci rom to use, etc.
 [11:00:57]  <vignatti^ hum, okay. So I'll try to get x86emu in shape for this evening
 [11:01:04]  <vignatti> thx
 [11:06:29]  <vignatti> daniels: hey Daniel. How can I change my mail forward of vignatti user at kemper.fd.o?
 [11:06:47]  <vignatti> or do you know at least who I must poke? :)
 [11:10:15]  <daniels> ahr
 [11:10:33]  <daniels> echo mailForward: foo@bar | gpg --clearsign | mail change@db.freedesktop.org
 [11:10:40]  <daniels> though @kemper.fd.o doesn't forward iirc, only @fd.o
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[11:19:57]  <vignatti> daniels: cool, it worked :)
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[11:20:10]  <vignatti> daniels: both @fd.o and @kemper.fd.o
 [11:20:30]  <vignatti> thx
 [11:21:48]  <daniels> ah, nice
 [11:21:48]  <daniels> npp
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[13:49:42]  <mwoehlke> I need a way to either find out what window did an XGrabButton/XGrabPointer and/or force X to release a grab, any hints?
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[14:06:27]  <ajax> can't do it, sorry.
 [14:07:02]  <ajax> caveat: with all the released versions of the server, there's an option you can turn on in the config file to enable a "break grabs" keystroke
 [14:07:09]  <ajax> but that'll be gone in 1.6
 [14:09:26]  <mwoehlke^ so, rogue apps are allowed to break my desktop? That doesn't seem very nice
 [14:09:41]  <mwoehlke> what's this about a 'break grabs' key? how would I use that?
 [14:09:53]  <ajax> any app can send any events it likes to any other app.  welcome to X, it's sort of all or nothing here.
 [14:10:20]  <mwoehlke> ah... no, my problem is something is preventing events from happening
 [14:10:27]  <jcristau^ the option is called AllowClosedownGrabs
 [14:10:29]  <ajax> look for the word "AllowDeactivateGrabs" in xorg.conf
 [14:10:56]  <ajax> either one.  Deactivate will break the grab, Closedown will break the grab and kill the client that was holding it.
 [14:11:09]  <mwoehlke^ in /man/ xorg.conf? (my xorg.conf has no such option ATM)
 [14:11:16]  <ajax> yes
 [14:11:35]  <mwoehlke> closedown is probably not what I want if the grabber is e.g. kwin :-)
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[14:12:19]  <mwoehlke> there is no way to find out what client did the grab though? that would really help debugging
 [14:12:33]  <ajax> short of instrumenting the server, not as far as i know.
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[14:13:17]  <mwoehlke> ajax: and "instrumenting" = building my own, yes? :-(
 [14:13:31]  <ajax> yep.
 [14:15:52]  <mwoehlke> nuts, so potentially ClosedownGrabs is my only hope for figuring out what process is misbehaving? :-(
 [14:16:44]  <ajax> well, or you could rebuild libX11 and spew to syslog every time something grabs...
 [14:17:08]  * mwoehlke would like to note that he considers removing options that can let a system recover from rogue apps is a Bad Idea
 [14:17:30]  <mwoehlke> ajax: yeah, I should rephrase the previous sentence, "short of rebuilding X"
 [14:17:31]  <ajax> if you let a rogue app connect to your server you've already failed at security
 [14:17:46]  <ajax> i agree with you and all, but the security model in X is what it is.
 [14:17:49]  <mwoehlke^ what if it's /broken/?
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[14:18:31]  <mwoehlke> AFAIK, something has a bug, but I don't know if it's kded, kwin, Xorg, or something else...
 [14:19:12]  <mwoehlke> (and meanwhile, starting kvm, letting it boot the guest, and shutting down the guest - and darned if I know why that helps - is a PITA way to fix things)
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[14:20:02]  <ajax> apparently everyone else who's had to debug a problem like that has not seen fit to leave their server instrumentation in place for the next poor soul
 [14:20:03]  <mwoehlke^ oh, and btw, thanks for being the first person in ~1 week of me asking that actually helped :-) (ah... make that "actually did something other than ignore me")
 [14:20:28]  <mwoehlke> yeah... I'm half tempted to file a bug at Fedora to add that instrumentation :-)
 [14:20:37]  <Lrrr> Grabs pass the boundary of Xephyr or Xnest?
 [14:20:50]  <mwoehlke^ ?
 [14:21:14]  <ajax> heehee.  man, if i could fix even a tenth of the fedora bugs...
 [14:21:21]  <ajax> (note: day job)
 [14:21:41]  * mwoehlke wonders if Xephyr would also free up whatever brokenness is hosing the mouse
 [14:21:42]  <Lrrr> I mean, would it work if you ran the potentially rogue app in a nested server?
 [14:21:58]  <ajax^ the nested servers don't proxy on the grab requests, no.
 [14:22:12]  <mwoehlke+ ah... if I wanted to run my entire desktop in Xephyr, maybe, but that would rather defeat the purpose
 [14:22:46]  <Lrrr> ajax: which means?
 [14:23:01]  <ds+ because you'd enjoy removing random poorly written instrumentation crap from X?
 [14:23:29]  <mwoehlke> my best guess is that it's either kded, kwin, or X itself that's broken (or the crap nvidia drivers - yeah, I know, though I don't get why that would hose the mouse)
 [14:23:31]  <ajax> Lrrr: if you XGrabServer in a Xephyr, the Xephyr doesn't turn around and XGrabServer on the server it's displaying to
 [14:24:30]  <mwoehlke> for 'run in Xephyr' to be useful, I'd have to run everything in Xephyr, and then I'd still have the same problem (i.e. the glitch would take out effectively my entire X session)
 [14:25:17]  <daniels> ajax: eh, just expose active grabs through xres or something.
 [14:25:28]  <daniels> pretty sure passive grabs are already there
 [14:25:33]  <Lrrr> mwoehlke: maybe, i'm just brainstorming.
 [14:25:42]  <mwoehlke> daniels: yeah, that's what I want :-)
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[14:26:13]  <mwoehlke> Lrrr: no worries, thanks for the ideas, and I didn't think to see if Xephyr can clear the grab, so that's still something to try
 [14:26:25]  <ajax> daniels: well, if pgrabs count as resources, then yeah
 [14:26:34]  <daniels> (they do)
 [14:26:39]  <ajax> sweet
 [14:27:06]  <mwoehlke> daniels: hmm... is xres something I maybe don't have installed? (or is the command not "xres"?)
 [14:27:36]  <ajax^ the X-Resource extension, of which the sample client is called 'xrestop'
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[14:27:55]  <mwoehlke> ok, have that, but how would I get details from it?
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[14:28:11]  <mwoehlke> ajax: or do you mean I'd need to write my own front-end?
 [14:28:32]  <ajax> or hack xrestop to show a 'grabs' column too instead of lumping them under 'other'
 [14:28:43]  <mwoehlke^ same difference ;-)
 [14:29:08]  <mwoehlke> probably I'll try to write something that does a one-time dump of all grabs, in detail
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[14:29:44]  <daniels> bear in mind that's passive grabs, which isn't really what you want.  active grabs are the problematic ones.
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[14:30:18]  <mwoehlke> daniels: yeah, that's what I'm worried about... how hard would it be to patch X for xres to list active also?
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[14:30:35]  * mwoehlke debates "xgdump" :-)
 [14:30:53]  <ajax> if you added active grabs as a new resource type, not terribly.
 [14:31:09]  <ajax> if you didn't, you'd need to update the wire protocol
 [14:31:19]  <daniels> or just added a timer to active grab taking such that it logged furious abuse if you held one for longer than, say, 15 seconds
 [14:31:36]  <mwoehlke^ hehe, that could do it ;-)
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[14:31:51]  <mwoehlke> ajax: ah, any reason not to add it as a res type?
 [14:32:03]  <mwoehlke> better question, any chance of getting patches accepted upstream? ;-)
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[14:33:16]  <ajax> i can't think of an obvious problem with adding an active grab resource type, besides making sure they clean up properly.
 [14:33:59]  <ajax> and yeah, i'd be pretty happy to take the feature if it worked
 [14:52:56]  <mwoehlke^ cool... anyway thanks for being helpful!
 [14:53:10]  <ajax> np
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[14:59:41]  <mwoehlke> anyway, I think I'd better take a break before people in #fedora push me into doing something violent :-), but I may be around, trying to make xres report active grabs (even if it doesn't help me solve this, it sounds useful in its own right)
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[16:01:10]  <Davinci2008> hi
 [16:01:30]  <Davinci2008> I had an error, now I fixed it
 [16:01:40]  <Davinci2008> I do not remember who I was talking about a few hours before
 [16:02:07]  <Davinci2008> dante: I fixed it, it was the video card
 [16:02:18]  <Davinci2008> I changed it to an ATI card and it now works perfectly
 [16:02:27]  <dante> that doesn't mean it was the card.
 [16:02:37]  <Davinci2008> it was one of the factors
 [16:02:38]  <dante> that just means the software isn't breaking with the ATI card.
 [16:02:45]  <Davinci2008> whatever
 [16:02:47]  <dante> it's an important difference.
 [16:02:52]  <Davinci2008> ok
 [16:03:00]  <Davinci2008> I don't speak so scientist
 [16:03:05]  <Davinci2008> but I understand
 [16:03:34]  <Davinci2008> well, the apps are not crashing with the ATI card as they were with the NVidia card
 [16:03:49]  <Davinci2008> for reasons I don't know
 [16:04:02]  <Davinci2008> and I know that error can be thrown by drawing out of the screen
 [16:04:22]  <Davinci2008> maybe the vesa implementation does something weird to that card
 [16:04:31]  <Davinci2008> or the card interpretates the data in a wrong way
 [16:04:35]  <Davinci2008> I still want to know why...
 [16:04:47]  <Davinci2008> but it is in low priority
 [16:05:07]  <dante> or maybe the software is being dumb
 [16:05:14]  <dante> because there is no XV in vesa.
 [16:05:25]  <Davinci2008> no?
 [16:05:27]  <dante> and maybe it is assuming there is something there
 [16:05:31]  <Davinci2008> weird...
 [16:05:39]  <dante> I mean finding out what the problem is will take time
 [16:05:47]  <dante> and I understand you just want a solution
 [16:05:52]  <Davinci2008> of course... that is why I say it is low priority
 [16:06:03]  <Davinci2008> my solution is to change to ATI cards, for the moment...
 [16:06:44]  <Davinci2008> anyway, in the future, I have to find out which special things is making ffplay to throw that error
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[16:09:56]  <Davinci2008> thanks for everything and bye
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[16:27:56]  <vignatti> so xds08 will be really at the zoo
 [16:28:06]  <vignatti> i thought it was some kind a joke :)
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[16:46:13]  <daniels> vignatti: no, i was dead serious :)
 [16:48:25]  <arekm> last standing in a tiger cage wins free laptop
 [16:49:46]  <Lrrr^ you mean wins every other participant laptop
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[17:06:20]  <daniels> 59 new laptops
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[18:45:54]  <cjb> woo, going to LPC.
 [18:46:49]  <daniels^
[18:47:09]  <cjb^ oh :/  suck.
 [18:47:25]  <cjb> I'm usually the person who does that when you guys announce you're going to conferences.  :)
 [18:47:26]  <daniels> rather
 [18:47:32]  <daniels> heh
 [18:47:51]  <daniels> will we be graced by your presence at xds?
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[18:48:36]  <cjb> oh, hadn't thought about that.  when/where?
 [18:48:55]  <cjb> ah hah, Edinburgh.  yeah, that's unlikely.
 [18:49:35]  <daniels> week before plumbers, iirc, so the two are pretty much mutualy exclusive.
 [18:49:49]  <cjb> OLPC's not as easy going with the travel fare as some other companies :)
 [18:49:53]  <daniels^ btw, erinn from coverity should (allegedly) be in touch with you at some stage
 [18:50:01]  <daniels> yeah, fair enough
 [18:50:05]  <cjb> I'd forgotten about that.  Cool.
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[18:52:38]  <dberkholz> even though LPC is like 2 hours away, i probably won't make it
 [18:54:30]  <dberkholz> unless i bring a 3-week-old baby with, and that might be a little disruptive to the whole atmosphere
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[18:55:39]  <CosmicPenguin> With some of the kernel crowd he/she will fit right in
 [18:55:53]  <marcheu> crybabies ?  :)
 [18:56:11]  <Lrrr> dberkholz: at that age they sleep 20/24h, don't they?
 [18:57:08]  <daniels+ belated congratulations
 [18:57:12]  <airlied> Lrrr: just not in a row..
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[19:01:08]  <daniels> airlied: surely brisbane would just make it too exhausted to cry
 [19:01:13]  <daniels> 'waa ... zzz'
 [19:03:57]  <airlied^ here's hopin :)
 [19:05:36]  <daniels> if all else fails, just keep going north.  noosa, cape trib ... surely there's got to be a point where even babies give up.
 [19:05:47]  <daniels> (of course, this is the point life is no longer worth living anyway.)
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[19:06:13]  <airlied> daniels: move to Darwin, get a drunk on..
 [19:06:40]  <daniels> replace the bottle with a goonbag?
 [19:07:09]  <pcpa> I just made a new xedit release, I think I did everything right, using release.sh. Do I need to explicitly/manually send email to @xorg-announce ?
 [19:07:16]  <xorg62> ouais pareille
 [19:07:25]  <Lrrr^ dude, wrong window ;D
 [19:07:41]  <daniels> pcpa: it'll generate xedit-1.2.3.announce, which you can pop into your favourite mua
 [19:08:49]  <pcpa^ Thanks. Now it seens a good moment to use another mua, thunderbird already crashed twice while trying to get it to work... :-)
 [19:08:55]  <pcpa> *seems
 [19:10:08]  <Lrrr> dang, I wish they made a chg like cgit
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[19:13:49]  <daniels> pcpa: classy
 [19:15:20]  <dberkholz^ thank you sir
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[21:26:29]  <aaronp> ajax, daniels: Do you guys have any objections to me making ShmRegisterFuncs part of the ABI?
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[21:29:28]  <daniels> aaronp: i don't see why not
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[21:49:30]  <aaronp> daniels: http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/0001-Make-shmint.h-part-of-the-SDK.patch
 [21:53:38]  <daniels> ack
 [21:53:47]  <daniels> (you probably want to export fbShmPutImage, though)
 [21:54:33]  <aaronp> It's already exported.
 [21:54:55]  <aaronp> Thanks.
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[21:59:01]  <daniels> np
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[01:13:07]  <keithp> aaronp: thanks, I need that too
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[02:20:38]  <moosepants> Hi team. Might be in the wrong channel. Looking for help with uinput. Specifically having written a keyboard driver (modified kbdd) and sending events to the driver via uinput from userspace - can anyone help?
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[02:47:09]  <marcheu> MrCooper: hey, so if you can look at why 36759427ed13c5ea96f46d511c74913b2e70d212 breaks things, I'm at a loss here mostly...
 [02:49:53]  <MrCooper^ which tree is that? (Haven't caught up with things)
 [02:50:16]  <marcheu> xserver master, the logarithmis gxcopy optimization
 [02:50:44]  <marcheu> I also suspect that there's another problem where you could end up doing blits bigger than the limits set by the driver
 [02:50:45]  <MrCooper> k, that's a3afa6f2fb80489f7b6a88d12def09281d32ed94 here
 [02:51:41]  <marcheu> right
 [02:52:25]  <marcheu> anyway I always fail with clip areas & similar things and I also have to go now :)
 [02:53:06]  <marcheu> we've been fighting this in #16911
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[02:57:41]  <MrCooper> I'll take a look
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[03:22:52]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:03:06]  <marcheu> MrCooper: great thanks
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[05:15:35]  <MrCooper> marcheu: should be fixed
 [05:26:15]  <MrCooper> daniels, whot: Now that I'm using hotplugging with evdev instead of kbd, pressing just alt-Fx switches to VT x (and sends alt-Fx to the focussed window, so I see the expected action after switching back to the server). Is this known/expected?
 [05:26:38]  <daniels^ you're incredibly fast, i woke up not long ago and literally just got back on irc seconds ago.  are you watching me?
 [05:26:56]  <MrCooper> nope, coincidence
 [05:27:01]  <daniels^ a) no, you should need ctrl obviously, b) known issue and will be fixed up
 [05:27:16]  <MrCooper> I just noticed it only seems to happen with the right alt key, not the left one
 [05:27:36]  <daniels> hrm
 [05:27:57]  <daniels> svu: any idea why that would happen? ^^
 [05:28:00]  <MrCooper> possibly related:
 [05:28:35]  <MrCooper> sometimes the right alt key will act as Control instead of Alt, I need to reload the layout in gnome-keyboard-properties to make it act as Alt again
 [05:30:45]  <daniels> wtf? that's quite special.
 [05:31:05]  <daniels> when it starts doing that, could you please send me the output of xkbcomp -xkb :0 -, and also xev when you press it?
 [05:31:18]  <MrCooper> it's actually wrong that way on the GDM login screen until I log in
 [05:32:27]  <daniels> special.
 [05:32:28]  <MrCooper> will do
 [05:33:25]  <daniels> thanks
 [05:39:43]  <MrCooper> no, thank *you* for your interest :)
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[05:40:39]  <daniels> i live to give
 [05:41:35]  <arekm> hehe
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[06:25:06]  <marcheu> MrCooper: I still fail at understanding the code, but thanks :)
 [06:25:56]  <MrCooper^ np - do you understand the basic idea though?
 [06:26:21]  <marcheu> yeah, I am just too lazy to checkout xserver, so I only look at the diffs
 [06:26:34]  <marcheu> being on the move on slow connections and all
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[06:43:11]  <JohnFlux> slightly offtopic...
 [06:43:21]  <JohnFlux> why would dmesg output not be put in /var/log/dmesg ?
 [06:43:40]  <JohnFlux> i can see new kernel messages when running dmesg
 [06:43:48]  <JohnFlux> but nothing is added /var/log/dmesg
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[07:27:39]  <daniels> JohnFlux: you need to run klogd
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[07:43:46]  <JohnFlux> daniels: yeah I have it running, and syslogd.  oh well
 [07:43:53]  <JohnFlux> probably something funny going on :)
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[07:45:28]  <JohnFlux> daniels: btw, there's rendercheck to check basic rendering - is there a more complicated test suite anywhereversion?
 [07:45:34]  <JohnFlux> anywhere
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[07:46:01]  <JohnFlux> daniels: rendercheck passes completely, but apps causes hardware lockups and drawing glitches and fun stuff
 [07:46:13]  <JohnFlux> so I'm going to have to write a load of unittests anyway I think
 [07:46:29]  <JohnFlux> it's worth pushing such unittests upstream if it would be useful
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[07:52:07]  <daniels> JohnFlux: if you have any, feel free to push them
 [07:53:35]  <JohnFlux^ at the moment does the xserver have any unittests in the repos?
 [07:53:49]  <JohnFlux> I think I downloaded rendercheck  from some random website
 [07:54:27]  <daniels> rendercheck is in our git repos (just app/rendercheck, i think), but no, we don't have useful unit tests
 [07:54:35]  <daniels> we have xts, but it's immutable and a nightmare to run
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[08:32:41]  <nha> ah, rendercheck
 [08:33:26]  <nha> JohnFlux: fyi and if you're interested in such tests in general, I'm maintaining piglit (also on fdo's git) which is for OpenGL
 [08:33:52]  <nha> I use it as a "write test cases as I fix bugs" thing, so it's growing in a somewhat uncoordinated way
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[08:37:46]  <dr-xorg> whot: ping
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[08:40:56]  <dr-xorg> whot: when using inputproto from git, your commit da29a25315b5dc0df4f6e221cf81587efffce4c6 (Require inputproto 1.4.4) doesn't help, as e.g. git from 080626 places "Version: 1.9.99.1" in the pkg-config file ....
 [08:41:56]  <jcristau^ so either use 1.4.4, or 1.9.99.3
 [08:42:14]  <jcristau> it helps people who're not using git inputproto
 [08:42:58]  <dr-xorg> yes, I'll update my proto/ now; just thought I'd mention it...
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[09:14:19]  <Dodji> what are the graphic card available today that have two dvi output ?
 [09:14:23]  <Dodji> cards
 [09:14:55]  <Dodji> so that one can have two physical monitors plugged
[09:17:39]  <pedroerp> hey guys.. i'm having problems with my xserver..
 [09:17:47]  <pedroerp> i have just compiled the newest version of xserver, protos, mouse, keyboard and vesa driver, but without gl and mesa stuff.
 [09:17:57]  <pedroerp> i'm testing in a machine with two graphic card and monitors. if i configure xorg to use the first graphic card (the default one) it works. but when i just change the graphic card to use it freezes my pc.
 [09:18:05]  <pedroerp> anybody??
 [09:18:10]  <wereHamster> Dodji: nvidia cards, I have one with two dvi outputs
 [09:18:54]  <daniels+ most good radeonhds have two dual-link dvi outputs
 [09:18:57]  <daniels> (aiui)
 [09:19:27]  <Dodji^ but the current randr driver can drive the radeonhds correctly ?
 [09:19:41]  <Dodji> wereHamster, hmmh, thanks :-)
 [09:19:52]  <daniels^ the current ati driver, yeah
 [09:19:58]  <daniels> works fine, randr 1.2, etc
 [09:20:24]  <wereHamster> Dodji: also depends on whether you want to use opensource drivers or whether you don't mind running the nvidia binary blob
 [09:20:52]  <Dodji^ I do mind ;-)
 [09:21:20]  <Dodji> I didn't want to be rude, that's why I said "hmmh, thanks" :-)
 [09:22:04]  <wereHamster^ I can't say how well the nv driver works, I used to run the nvidia blob
 [09:23:33]  <Dodji> I won't touch the nvidia driver ;-)
 [09:23:49]  <Dodji> well, I don't know if nouveau works though
 [09:23:58]  <Dodji> for randr that is.
 [09:24:09]  <Lrrr> good thing.  the last blobs are a bit painful.
 [09:25:44]  <pedroerp> anybody help me? =-]
 [09:27:51]  <Dodji> anybody knows where the code of the matrox video driver is in git ,
 [09:27:52]  <Dodji> ?
 [09:28:21]  <JohnFlux^ for xrender acceleration?  mga_draw.c  or something
 [09:28:35]  <Dodji> thanks
 [09:30:04]  <JohnFlux^ hmm no that's for the kdrive
 [09:30:47]  <JohnFlux> maybe  http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-mga/
 [09:34:06]  <daniels> wereHamster: nv doesn't do dual-head
 [09:34:20]  <daniels> i think nouveau has initial support but i don't know how well it works
 [09:34:27]  <daniels> just buy a radeon, it works just fine :)
 [09:35:02]  <daniels> i switched the nvidia card that came with my work desktop for an rv630 (radeonhd 2600), works perfectly with dual dvi.
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[09:40:27]  <ajax> Dodji: any given radeon, really.
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[09:45:23]  <Dodji> okay guy, thanks.
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[10:00:35]  <ddeath> Hi...
 [10:00:42]  <ddeath> I've small problem...
 [10:01:15]  <ddeath> I must join Wine and X programming technique
 [10:01:34]  <ddeath> I must create virtual desktop and reparent it.
 [10:01:53]  <ddeath> Bu the virtual desktop is a simple window(with borders etc)
 [10:02:34]  <ddeath> So I can't use XReparentWindow
 [10:02:39]  <ddeath> Is any way to do it??
 [10:02:49]  <JohnFlux> why can't you use XReparentWindow?
 [10:03:01]  <JohnFlux> (I don't know the answer to your question.  Just curious)
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[10:11:29]  <ddeath> If I use this function, the window is not repositioned
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[10:11:49]  <ddeath> Only caption is disabled(not visible)
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[10:15:48]  <ddeath> The same thinks is happened, when i create my custom app with two window.
 [10:16:33]  <ddeath> But if I created window and one widget attached to window, then alll will workin
 [10:17:02]  <ddeath> I can reparent control and move it throught it's parent
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[10:24:13]  <ddeath> Hi
 [10:24:27]  <ddeath> I make objdump -x on winex11.drv
 [10:24:48]  <ddeath> And why I can dynamically import X11DRV_get_whole_window
 [10:24:58]  <ddeath> I have other question
 [10:25:19]  <ddeath> wine_create_desktop semms returning X Window Identifier.
 [10:25:38]  <ddeath> Whe I can't do anything with it>>??<<
 [10:25:55]  <ddeath> X server returning something about bad window identifier....
 [10:26:22]  <ddeath> Sorry.
 [10:26:26]  <ddeath> Not this channel
 [10:31:35]  <malc0> MrCooper: the exa control flow patch doesn't return FALSE if PrepareCopy failed
 [10:31:45]  <malc0> (any more)
 [10:32:00]  <malc0> http://people.freedesktop.org/~stuart/0001-EXA-Fix-return-value-when-PrepareCopy-fails.patch works, but it's a load of reindent
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[10:44:38]  <MrCooper> malc0: hmm, unless I'm missing something, that doesn't return FALSE either if the second PrepareCopy fails... do you see any holes in http://people.freedesktop.org/~daenzer/exa-fillregiontiled-return-FALSE.diff ? :}
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[10:51:37]  <malc0> MrCooper: whoops, yeah. I just fixed the one that was causing me issues. your patch looks much better
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[10:52:17]  <MrCooper> I did mean to get rid of the ret variable, but I'm not sure it's worth it after all
 [10:53:16]  <stillunknown> Out of curiosity, why does only GXcopy get such an optimisation?
[10:53:28]  <stillunknown> (i'll be away soon, but i'll read backlog)
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[10:57:32]  <MrCooper> malc0: pushed, thanks for pointing out the problem
 [10:59:29]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: because others don't preserve the tile contents in the initial copy to the destination
 [11:00:09]  <MrCooper> technically it should also work with GXclear, GXset and GXnoop, but if you care about those, they could be dealt with at a higher level :)
 [11:02:27]  <MrDindon> ouais ouais
 [11:03:48]  <sx|lappy^ de la farce ;)
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[11:22:30]  <papillon81> dberkholz: when will you commit the synaptics ebuild? is there something missing? or should I rather post it to bugzilla?
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[11:52:43]  <wereHamster> I just built mesa, xorg, the evdev and intel drivers from git, and now I'm trying to run Xnest, but everytime I try to connect with a client to it Xnest refuses with 'AUDIT ... client 1 rejected from localhost'. Where could be the problem?
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[11:55:57]  <ajax> wereHamster: you need to either give it an auth file to use with -auth, or disable access control with -ac
 [11:56:55]  <daniels^ or we need to just make it grant access to SI:localuser:getuid() unless told not to.
 [11:58:18]  <ajax> i thought we did, tbh
 [11:58:42]  <wereHamster> can I tell Xorg to explicitely ignore any xorg.conf file it encounters and force autoconfiguration instead?
 [11:59:14]  <ajax> -config /dev/null, i think?
 [11:59:27]  <wereHamster> I use a xorg.conf for my normal xserver (because I use wacom and whatnot). But for the xserver from git I'd like to use autoconfiguration
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[12:02:07]  <daniels> ajax: nay
 [12:02:52]  <wereHamster> ah well, that worked. Thanks ajax
 [12:03:20]  <ajax> daniels: suck.  we should fix that.
 [12:03:44]  <daniels^ rather.
 [12:03:52]  <daniels> os/{access,auth}.c makes me weep, though.
 [12:04:18]  <ajax> bitter tears of despair
 [12:04:47]  <daniels> indeed
 [12:05:56]  <ajax> anyone mind if i rev libXau to not use stdio?
 [12:06:02]  <ajax> because, stdio.
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[12:08:33]  <daniels> go for it
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[12:17:08]  <wereHamster> alright, now I'm running xserver from git. However opengl/dri doesn't seem to work correctly. glxinfo only shows three visuals and prints lots of 'libGL claims not to support XXX', also, glxinfo prints '1.4 Mesa 7.0.3' as the renderer version but I thought xserver from git required mesa 7.1.0
 [12:18:05]  <daniels> ... did you install mesa 7.1.0?
 [12:18:15]  <wereHamster> I installed mesa from git
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[12:20:03]  <jcristau> probably not where ld.so looks for it
 [12:21:12]  <wereHamster> it's DRI_DRIVER_PATH, isn't it?
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[12:22:19]  <daniels> just LD_LIBRARY_PATH to find libGL
 [12:24:04]  <wereHamster> d'oh. That was it, thanks
 [12:25:27]  <aaronp^ Just to set the record straight, nv does do dual-head for GeForce 8 and higher GPUs.
 [12:26:29]  <daniels^ i thought you couldn't reprogram tmds at all, just enable or disable it?
 [12:27:02]  <aaronp> No, for G8x we have full control of the display engine.
 [12:27:53]  <aaronp> There are some new boards with external DisplayPort connectors that might be a bit tricky, but I got tentative permission to program those, if I ever get some free time to work on it.
 [12:28:04]  <aaronp> er, external DisplayPort *encoders*, that is.
 [12:28:41]  <aaronp> The only problem with TMDS is that the nv driver can't change the GPU clocks, so certain modes may exceed the available bandwidth.
 [12:29:37]  <stillunknown> You still need to look at that nv bug i filed ;-)
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[12:30:34]  <aaronp> Sorry!  :(
 [12:31:34]  <stillunknown^ If you do lvds in nv properly, then i might be inclined to tell you :-)
 [12:33:15]  <wereHamster> wow, resizing windows in compiz is much smoother then when I tried last time! great job!
 [12:35:12]  <stillunknown> aaronp: that would be g80 lvds, not lvds in general
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[12:36:00]  <aaronp> FWIW, I got DDC-based EDIDs for LVDS working.  Works great on my laptop.
 [12:36:35]  <stillunknown> You're forgetting the laptops that don't do ddc.
 [12:36:48]  <aaronp> I'm not forgetting them, I just don't have any.
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[12:37:39]  <stillunknown> I assume you have some very nice specs lying somewhere, that say when it needs non-ddc and what to do with it.
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[12:43:57]  <stillunknown> aaronp: Anyway, there are two potentional lockups in g80 nv.
 [12:44:07]  <wereHamster> daniels: just a quick question on your development model. When you work on the xserver, do you install it into /opt/gfx and keep a 'known, working' xorg stack in /usr or do you install everything into /usr and hope that nothing breaks?
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[12:44:31]  <daniels> wereHamster: the latter, yeah
 [12:44:38]  <daniels> it's fantastic motivation to force you to fix stuff when it breaks
 [12:44:50]  <stillunknown> aaronp: One is triggered by calling some of the cursor functions while modesetting (this leads to command 0x80 being send).
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[12:45:18]  <stillunknown> The other one is caused by changing modes on a crtc, but keeping the clocks.
 [12:45:44]  <wereHamster> daniels: hm. I'm just afraid that it will clash with the currently installed files and that gentoo will overwrite them the next time it updates any of the components
 [12:45:55]  <dberkholz> i heard gentoo
 [12:46:23]  <dberkholz> wereHamster: i've got live-git ebuilds in the x11 overlay, makes development pretty easy
 [12:46:28]  <aaronp+ I usually install it to /X (or /X32 for checking x86/x86_64 compatibility)
 [12:46:45]  <dberkholz> the x-modular.eclass almost has support for arbitrary prefixes too, if folks want that i could restore it.
 [12:46:51]  <stillunknown> aaronp: be sure to write to 0x00614200 when 0x00610024 & 0x00000020, even when 0x00610030 doesn't request a clock change
 [12:47:09]  <aaronp^ Are there bugs filed for those?
 [12:47:19]  <stillunknown> The latter one yes, iirc.
 [12:47:42]  <aaronp> Okay, thanks.
 [12:48:14]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: does your overlay support things like GEM and modesetting?
 [12:48:27]  <stillunknown> aaronp: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15309
 [12:48:35]  <dberkholz> wereHamster: it just provides the ebuilds ... you can easily modify them to make them pull from different upstream branches
 [12:48:37]  <stillunknown> except that doesn't give the answer i gave
 [12:48:49]  <stillunknown> i'll copy it though
 [12:50:39]  <wereHamster> uhm. great. Now I have three choices: Use the overlay, install into /usr or install into a different prefix.
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[12:51:32]  <daniels> wereHamster: dpkg at least has dpkg-divert, which is 'i'm messing with these files locally, don't touch them'.
 [12:51:57]  <aaronp> Gentoo's quickpkg tool makes it easy to switch back.
 [12:52:39]  <dberkholz> the overlay is most convenient when you aren't actually developing a package, just trying to use the latest upstream
 [12:52:52]  <dberkholz> since we do a crappy job of incremental builds
 [12:53:38]  <wereHamster> eventually I'd like to start hacking on xorg :P
 [12:53:57]  <wereHamster> but seeing how quickly the patches are accepted, I might just as well stick with the overlay for now
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[12:56:48]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: is 'x11' your overlay?
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[13:01:11]  <wereHamster> what's the status of GEM vs TTM? Have you agreed upon a memory manager API?
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[13:08:01]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: it was agreed that some things should be shared, open, close, rlink, pread, pwrite.
 [13:08:22]  <Dr_Jakob> But pread and pwrite is not currently shared
 [13:09:20]  <wereHamster> but the two are still being developed in separate branches, right?
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[13:09:39]  <Dr_Jakob> yes
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[13:10:59]  <dberkholz> wereHamster: yeah it is
 [13:11:18]  <dberkholz> well, technically it's the "gentoo x11 team" overlay. at the moment, that pretty much means me
 [13:11:34]  <dberkholz> jim cloos commits stuff to it too
 [13:12:47]  <wereHamster> does anyone have the kernel patch needed to compile drm-gem at hand?
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[13:13:53]  <jcristau> wereHamster: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~anholt/linux-2.6/ drm-gem-merge
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[13:33:54]  <wereHamster> oh, I forgot. There's likely another patch needed for the kernel, the kernel needs to export cfb_copyarea etc, but it currently does that only if some other drivers are selected
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[14:31:32]  <daniels> right, xds sponsorship program announced
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[14:41:29]  <vignatti> daniels: coolio :)
 [14:42:26]  <daniels^ apply!
 [14:43:46]  <Dr_Jakob+ I just love your blog picture on planet.freedesktop.org
 [14:45:07]  <vignatti> heh
 [14:45:13]  <vignatti> Dr_Jakob: you were the second
 [14:45:21]  <vignatti> keithp told he liked the hat :)
 [14:45:45]  <Dr_Jakob> Hehe
 [14:46:05]  <vignatti^ I just saw that all the people there don't put a smile face, so I decided to be more happy than others
[14:46:47]  <Dr_Jakob> Haha
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[15:57:48]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: remi` is your intel driver guy for gentoo
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[15:59:11]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: we still haven't bumped to 2.4, check https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232908 comment #4 for slight details
 [16:00:02]  <ajax> can we stop caring about 2.4 kernels now?
 [16:00:13]  <dberkholz> that was the 2.4 intel driver...
 [16:00:18]  <ajax> i know.
 [16:00:27]  <dberkholz> oh, ok. just weird timing, i guess
 [16:00:48]  <dberkholz> i don't care about 2.4 kernels, but i don't really care about breaking backwards compat either
 [16:05:09]  <jbarnes^ I'll push the fix for that now...
 [16:11:45]  <jbarnes> pushed... should be safe to upgrade now :)
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[16:20:25]  <dberkholz> jbarnes: cool, thanks
 [16:27:20]  <nha> the Edinburgh Zoo website features the Gentoo Penguin
 [16:27:25]  <nha> coincidence?
 [16:29:15]  <CosmicPenguin> yes
 [16:29:45]  <nha> says the cosmic penguin ;)
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[17:06:02]  <adamw> egbert: ping - sorry to bug you, but i've sent a couple of emails about the old 'conflicting types for xf86jmp_buf' error showing up in radeonhd builds again, and not had a reply...it's stopping me updating the mandriva package for radeonhd atm...
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[17:25:47]  <marcheu> adamw: askin in #radeonhd ?
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[17:26:03]  <adamw> marcheu: heh, forgot it had its own channel...
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[17:46:15]  <ajax> xfree86 i hate you so hard
 [17:46:16]  <ajax> #if !defined(__sparc__) && !defined(__sparc) && !defined(__powerpc__) && !defined(__mips__) && !defined(__ia64__) && !defined(__arm__) && !defined(__s390__) && !defined(__m32r__)
 [17:46:33]  <ajax> DID IT MAYBE OCCUR TO YOU THAT THIS SHOULD BE A POSITIVE-SENSE CONDITIONAL
 [17:47:17]  <daniels> i remember carrying the debian patch to add arm and s390
 [17:47:25]  <daniels> and i think i was the one who merged m32r support
 [17:47:26]  <daniels> so, sorry.
 [17:47:40]  <daniels> (you're talking about the iopl() protection in lnx_video.c/lnx_init.c, no?)
 [17:47:49]  <ajax> CheckGenericGA().  so, no.
 [17:48:33]  <ajax> but it's a bit sad that there's more that one candidate conditional here, innit?
 [17:48:49]  <airlied> lets just start again.
 [17:49:01]  <daniels> i don't even have that function in my server
 [17:49:04]  <airlied> now I'll buy the bongs and the crack.
 [17:49:07]  <daniels> (probably for the best.)
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[17:51:22]  <ajax> i'm inclined to make nobody have that function in their server
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[17:54:02]  <ajax> ugh, isolateDevice is unpleasant
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[17:55:30]  <ajax> jbarnes: hey.  any chance we can get a sysfs file that says what device vga was routed to when we posted?
 [17:55:46]  <ajax> one per domain if you like, i'm not picky
 [17:55:54]  <jbarnes> yeah per-domain would make sense
 [17:56:04]  <jbarnes> we should just merge the vga arbiter stuff and be done with it
 [17:56:08]  <ajax> well that too
 [17:56:11]  <jbarnes> vignatti: have those patches handy?
 [17:56:14]  <ajax> but that doesn't fix secondary posting
 [17:57:05]  <ajax> maybe we just let vbetool handle secondary posting for the devices we can't do natively, that'd be fine.
 [17:57:25]  <jbarnes> the arbiter would make it possible & portable though, and there could be an ioctl that tells you where things are routed
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[17:57:35]  <ajax> but vbetool still needs to be able to look at a device and know either the legacy BIOS map is the right one, or it needs to map the PCI ROM
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[17:58:11]  <ajax> right now the server does "this device is primary if it has vga routed to it when the server starts", and "this card needs posting if it's not primary"
 [17:58:26]  <ajax> if vga is routed away between boot and X launch... despair.
 [17:59:39]  <ajax> anyway, bus time.  something to think about.
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[18:00:34]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, isolateDevice is entirely unpleasant.
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[18:20:31]  <daniels> ajax: xidle!
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[18:26:19]  <daniels> ajax: http://bugs.xfree86.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926
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[19:22:01]  <dberkholz> man, i don't understand how that guy is so out of touch with reality
 [19:22:31]  <airlied^ some people exist on a different plane.
 [19:22:36]  <airlied> or plain
 [19:22:42]  <airlied> or I'm not sure, I suck at English.
 [19:23:24]  <dberkholz> a different plane, indeed
 [19:23:34]  <airlied^ don't you have like a please use Ubuntu default reply for people who try and use Gentoo but are too dumb?
 [19:24:07]  <dberkholz> in this particular case, i'm more thinking of "please don't use computers"
 [19:24:24]  <ajax> "have you considered a career in sheep farming"
 [19:24:52]  <dberkholz> i hear new zealand is nice these days
 [19:25:10]  <wereHamster> how can you be sure how difficult sheep farming really is, ajax?
 [19:26:06]  <ajax> i don't.  but i suspect it involves an entirely other skill set.
 [19:26:32]  <ajax> and, optimistically, the guy has to have _some_ skill, and is just not displaying them.
 [19:26:47]  <daniels> i'm trying to farm sheep and i'm wondering how the hell this is all supposed to work??? i've got a rack of lamb sitting on my table and the grass is sure as hell still growing.  i tried prodding it with a stick, but that didn't work.  i tried stuffing the rack of lamb with grass, but nothing happened.  should i use sulphuric or citric acid to dissolve the grass now on my rack of lamb??
 [19:27:40]  <ajax> now that i've got the lamb cooked, how do i make a sheep out of it?  i've tried sewing it to this pigeon but it doesn't seem to be working and the pigeon is making angry noises.
 [19:29:32]  <ajax> is there anyone interested in making sheep eat grass?
 [19:29:46]  <daniels^ while adding an extra element of humour, 'and the pigeon is making angry noises' is totally unrealistic.  you'd have to guess from vague implications that things were going wrong with the farming that the pigeon was pretty pissed off.
 [19:30:48]  <ajax> fair point
 [19:31:02]  <ajax> i guess i'm not cut out for the country life
 [19:31:30]  <daniels> i guess chuck's just not cut out for life
 [19:32:11]  <daniels> speaking of reality novices, whatever happened to georgina economou?
 [19:32:59]  <daniels> wow.  http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/GSDGenetics/message/5495
 [19:33:02]  <ajax> i have to believe georgina was not real
 [19:33:49]  <ajax> although it's a tough call whether it was a sock puppet or a troll
 [19:34:27]  <daniels> maybe david genuinely believed she existed?
 [19:37:06]  <ajax> hmm.  posted on debian-sgml@ in 1999
 [19:38:17]  <ajax> okay, possibly at least a long-lived alter ego
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[19:48:40]  <daniels> wow: http://www.spinics.net/lists/xf-xpert/msg03538.html
 [19:54:05]  <ajax> cute how xfree86.org blew away all their mail archives
 [19:54:10]  <ajax> by which i mean:
 [19:54:29]  <ajax> well.  something impolite.
 [19:54:41]  <daniels> by which you mean, bruce perens?
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[19:55:31]  <ajax> language, sir.
 [19:55:59]  <daniels> it's after the watershed, the kids are all asleep.
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[20:00:48]  <spstarr> isn't xf86 dead yet?
 [20:00:50]  <spstarr> (please?)
 [20:02:09]  <airlied^ you should go ask them on their mailing lists
 [20:02:31]  <spstarr> but that'd initiate a huge flamewar
 [20:02:48]  <airlied> not if they are dead.
 [20:02:53]  <spstarr> then google would archive it, and it would be preserved forever
 [20:02:54]  <airlied> its the only clear way to know..
 [20:03:01]  <spstarr> heh
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[20:04:53]  <daniels> tsi hasn't made a post for two months, and dawes for two years.  there are virtually no commits: certainly none of any significance.  god knows how many cves they're open to.
 [20:05:05]  <ajax> just the most recent round
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[20:05:14]  <ajax> which is still like six
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[20:05:39]  <spstarr> I see a post from this month
 [20:05:46]  <spstarr> http://www.mail-archive.com/xfree86@xfree86.org/msg21241.html
 [20:06:53]  <daniels> oh, i was only checking devel@.
 [20:08:04]  <spstarr> oh
 [20:08:42]  <spstarr> http://www.mail-archive.com/cvs-commit@xfree86.org/msg05261.html
 [20:08:49]  <spstarr> there's certainly commit activity :(
 [20:09:08]  <spstarr> by 2 people ;)
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[20:09:44]  <spstarr> hahahaha you can't be serious... _2_ people only
 [20:09:50]  <ajax> one person
 [20:09:56]  <ajax> the dawes commits are clearly a script
 [20:10:20]  <spstarr> :)
 [20:11:00]  <ds> people still work on xfree86 non-ironically?
 [20:11:04]  <daniels> look at the commits, too.  the mach64+netbsd+sparc users will be thrilled.
 [20:11:12]  <daniels> ds: well, no.
 [20:11:28]  <daniels> (statistical insignificancies aside.)
 [20:11:32]  <ajax> well, i think tsi still committing is mostly out of spite than irony
 [20:12:15]  <airlied^ we don't support IRIX.
 [20:12:37]  <spstarr> whats IRIX? *grin*
 [20:12:46]  <ajax> well, sure.  sgi doesn't support irix, why would we bother.
 [20:13:03]  <airlied> when I port X to the VAX I'll totally use XFree86.
 [20:13:35]  <ajax> some crazy person ported xc 6.3 to the next
 [20:13:41]  <ajax> on netbsd
 [20:14:27]  <ajax> and i mean.  i admire crazy people and all.
 [20:14:47]  <ajax> but working on consortium X voluntarily is a little extreme.
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[20:44:09]  <wereHamster> does xorg have something resembling intptr_t ?
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[23:04:26]  <vignatti> jbarnes: yesshhh, jesse
 [23:04:57]  <vignatti> (and sorry in the delayed answer. I think I got a nintendo wii in a wrong time of my life. I still need to finish my msc dissertation and etc. also grow up a little :)
 [23:05:08]  <vignatti> I have a not so updated version of the vga arbiter here
 [23:05:46]  <vignatti> but I can poke the guy here in university which started to play with this. Probably he has some patchs which are close with kernel and Xorg upstream
 [23:08:48]  <vignatti> ajax: pci_device_enable() on libpciaccess doesn't have the intention to enable the right card (e.g. secundary)?
 [23:08:58]  <vignatti> used inside xf86ExtendedInitInt10()
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[23:12:36]  <jbarnes> vignatti: cool, would be good to get them into an upstream tree somewhere
 [23:12:41]  <jbarnes> so that maybe they can hit 2.6.28 or something
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[23:15:06]  <vignatti> jbarnes: nice. I'll try to get that guy tomorrow and let you informed about it
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[03:39:13]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:07:01]  <CE> is it ok to modify a pixmap using both, the X11-GC and XRender?
 [05:07:28]  <CE> my app does it, but it seems to struggle a lot with XAA
 [05:07:39]  <CE> on EXA everything works fine
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[05:20:59]  <stillunknown> CE: XAA was never built to do XRender in any reasonable way.
 [05:21:06]  <stillunknown> That's why exa was created.
 [05:21:22]  <CE> well
 [05:21:27]  <stillunknown> But don't hold back because of xaa.
 [05:21:32]  <CE> but I fight with problems like pixmaps loosing content
 [05:21:44]  <CE> at least the result looks like something like that
 [05:22:40]  <CE> I don't hold back ... I am afraid my app does something not allowed
 [05:22:40]  <stillunknown> I don't know why that would happen.
 [05:22:49]  <CE> and EXA just hides the problems
 [05:25:11]  <MrCooper^ make sure XAA offscreen pixmaps are disabled, they're known busted
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[05:25:57]  <MrCooper> and if something works as expected with EXA but not with XAA, it's more likely due to XAA being broken rather than EXA 'hiding' the problem :)
 [05:26:42]  <stillunknown^ any reason why the exa driver createpixmap hook does include any hints as to what is being allocated?
 [05:27:11]  <CE+ thanks, I'll try without offscreen pixmap
 [05:27:30]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: no, you'd have to ask its creator(s), but note that you don't actually have to allocate memory until ModifyPixmapHeader
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[05:29:09]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: creater(s) are?
 [05:29:33]  <MrCooper> not sure, maybe airlied, ask git blame :)
 [05:33:44]  <CE> hmm, an old nvidia-binary driver behaves exactly the same as XAA
 [05:34:12]  <CE> either they derived their "nvidia accaleration achritecture" from XAA or my app is doing something very weird :-/
 [05:35:20]  <stillunknown> but XAA + nooffscreenpixmaps works?
 [05:36:59]  <CE> can't reboot for now ... in 30min I'll know :)
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[05:38:13]  <CE> ...well ment restart x ^^
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[06:07:24]  <CE> no, happens with xaanooffscreenpixmaps also .-/
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[06:25:22]  <CE> ah found the problem :)
 [06:25:39]  <CE> on XAA shm-pixmaps are available
 [06:25:57]  <CE> and my code seems to breat the underlaying logic using it ;)
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[10:41:55]  <Dr_Jakob> ls
 [10:41:57]  <Dr_Jakob> ops
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[11:10:19]  <sebas> aaronp: Just saw that there's a new nvidia driver out
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[11:10:40]  <sebas> Is this one supposed to improve the KDE4 rendering slowness? (the release notes don't say something about that)
 [11:10:56]  <sebas> I'm just setting up a machine to test with, but it'll take a while to have it going ...
 [11:16:49]  <Lrrr^ from what I read there is no major improvement in that area.
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[11:23:28]  <wereHamster> does xrealloc() handle NULL like the linux/glibc realloc?
 [11:23:49]  <wereHamster> eg. realloc(NULL, size) == malloc(size)
 [11:24:04]  <ajax> yes.
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[11:26:19]  <ajax> man, the xgi driver is a piece of work.
 [11:27:45]  <ajax> #define SECRETFLAG 0x00000008
 [11:27:52]  <daniels> classy
 [11:27:55]  <ajax> thanks guys!
 [11:28:36]  <stillunknown> That kind of defeats using defines.
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[11:31:45]  <sebas> Lrrr: hmm :/
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[11:33:04]  <ajax> #define MAN_BEHIND_THE_CURTAIN 1
 [11:33:24]  <daniels> #undef MAN_BEHIND_THE_CURTAIN
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[11:41:15]  <wereHamster> ajax: are you sure? http://pastey.net/92909 did not work as expected
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[12:34:30]  <vignatti> ajax: http://people.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/0001-Remove-x86emu-module-and-use-it-as-a-library.patch
 [12:35:01]  <vignatti> and there is the repository of libx86emu:
 [12:35:08]  <vignatti> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~vignatti/libx86emu/
 [12:35:43]  <vignatti> ajax: then you decide if vm86 code must be nuked as well :)
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[12:49:31]  <ajax> vignatti: nice
 [12:49:37]  <ajax>     case BUS_ISA:
 [12:49:37]  <ajax>         /*
 [12:49:37]  <ajax>          * This needs to be revisited as it doesn't allow for non-PCI
 [12:49:37]  <ajax>          * multihead.
 [12:49:43]  <ajax> "needs", eh.
 [12:52:54]  <krh> vignatti: ooh, nice
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[13:05:20]  <ajax> booo no idr
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[13:36:25]  <vignatti> booo no jbarnes
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[13:47:13]  <aaronp> We should really hack GetImage to just return an image of a middle finger for XYPixmap.
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[13:48:11]  <ajax> i've considered moving all knowledge of xypixmap out to the core and converting in software
 [13:48:42]  <ajax> the only downside to doing that is you'd probably make xypixmap acceptably performant
 [13:54:04]  <aaronp> See, if it returned goatse, then it'd be performant *and* discourage people from using it.  Best of both worlds!
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[13:59:03]  <ajax> i approve of this message.
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[14:43:22]  <wereHamster> keithp: are object types equal resource types (RT_WINDOW etc.) ?
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[14:46:28]  <ddeath> Hi.
 [14:46:35]  <ddeath> How to makes Window embed
 [14:46:51]  <ddeath> I tries to reparent top-level Window, but it does.
 [14:47:05]  <ddeath> What way be better and how can I do?
 [14:47:14]  <ddeath> is better
 [14:51:28]  * arekm wonders about copying with mouse under X... tabs when copied and pasted are replaced with spaces. What part of X/window manager/something else is responsible for this behaviour? I would like to see tabs copied as tabs
[14:51:44]  <ajax^ that's the app's doing.
 [14:52:11]  <ajax> X just copies around the data it's given.  if the app hands us spaces there's no way we can know they used to be tabs.
 [14:52:12]  <ddeath> Can I reparent top-level Window?
 [14:52:40]  <arekm> the app is kde konsole in this case
 [14:57:48]  <arekm> hm, even xterm doesn't copy tabs properly. xterm; cat x (where x is 1 line file with tabs between words); cat - > y; paste text; ctrl + d and I'm checking y content
 [14:58:27]  <ajax> yeah.  typically terminals copy based on what's in their display buffer, and they expand to spaces on the way to the display buffer.
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[15:02:58]  <arekm> hm, and no one considered this to be a bug?
 [15:03:20]  <ajax> oh, plenty of people.
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[15:06:41]  <arekm> so it's hard to fix for apps like xterm or just no one actually cares?
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[15:08:18]  <mraudsepp> gnome-terminal is fixed, for instance, I think that's at VTE level.
 [15:09:41]  <rx> hi guys. i've been experiencing problems with X since i upgraded to Xorg 7.3. in the past, the first thing i did after installing Xorg was to set my DisplaySize in xorg.conf. after that, i simply added xrandr -s myres to .xsessionrc and i was in business. however, since i upgraded to xorg 7.3, the DisplaySize setting doesn't work anymore. I get the good resolution when starting X but GTK/QT apps draw fonts so big because the DPI of my s
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[15:10:48]  <arekm> mraudsepp: oh, thanks (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query=353610)
 [15:10:50]  <jcristau> rx: don't write the same stuff to multiple channels at the same time
 [15:11:31]  <rx> ok
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[16:05:57]  <arekm> mraudsepp: hm, installed gnome-terminal but it doesn't copy tabs correctly
 [16:08:51]  <ddeath> Hi
 [16:09:09]  <ddeath> I still looking for method to reparent top-level Window
 [16:09:17]  <mattst88> ajax, in xserver commit 82d51e6df2bf677bdf24376092bcaa79b534f6e5, should 'if (pci->regions[0].size)' be 'if (pci->regions[i].size)'?
 [16:09:29]  <ddeath> I can reparent it's Window Manager parent
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[16:13:39]  <ajax> mattst88: almost certainly ;)
 [16:14:19]  <mattst88> :)
 [16:14:49]  <CosmicPenguin> hmm - with a GPU can do a 2D rotate blit, but doesn't grok transforms, I pretty much lose in the brave new world of xf86CrtcRotate, don't I?
 [16:15:59]  <ajax^ you can check if the transform is a n*90 degree rotation and accelerate only those, if you want.
 [16:16:06]  <ajax> but yeah, general case you'd have to do in software
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[16:17:10]  <mraudsepp> arekm: it does. off-topic for here a bit, so I'm continuing in pm
 [16:17:19]  <CosmicPenguin> n * 90 degree without scaling to boot
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[16:18:45]  <ajax> [ [ 0 1 ] [ 1 0 ] ], etc.
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[16:20:05]  <CosmicPenguin> well, thats not so bad, I guess
 [16:20:53]  <CosmicPenguin> I should still be able to get it to accelerate a typical rotated display, and thats not bad
 [16:22:17]  <CosmicPenguin> probably a small price to pay for killing of thousands of lines of crufty code
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[17:27:12]  <pinchartl> hi
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[17:30:34]  <pinchartl> I recently got bitten by a keyboard issue when switching to hal-enabled xorg and the xf86-input-evdev driver. kde was still setting the keybord model to a specific model and I had to set it to evdev to fix the problem. I'd like to understand how scan codes are translated to key codes and then to key symbols in the new xorg+hal+evdev architecture, compared to the old xkb model setup. does anyone know where I could find some i
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[22:25:00]  <daniels> ajax: holy god 82d51e makes you a king amongst men
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[05:12:30]  <pinchartl> hi
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[06:55:31]  <pinchartl> I'm looking for information regarding how xorg manages keyboard input with the evdev driver and hal. I recently experienced issues when upgrading to evdev + hal-enabled xorg because kde used xkb to set the keyboard model from the hal specified value (evdev) to one of the inet keyboards, and I'd like to understand how scancode/keycode processing has changed between the two models.
 [06:55:45]  <pinchartl> does anyone have pointers to related documentation ?
 [06:56:22]  <pinchartl> (I'm going to be afk for a bit but I'll read your answers when I'll be back)
 [06:58:57]  <ddeath> Sorry for few days of my idiots question.
 [06:59:10]  <ddeath> The simplest way is always ambesten
 [07:00:39]  <ddeath> I previously think, that should I unmap Window first, but in documentation wrotes, that the X Server do this automatically.
 [07:02:09]  <ddeath> So I hope is it.
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[08:24:18]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ping, whats the expected hotel cost going to be at XDS?
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[10:31:28]  <ddeath> Is a channel for XOrg developers or how about developing undex X?
 [10:31:52]  <xorg62> BLlililbibliliblibi
[10:37:01]  <glisse> ddeath: xorg dev
 [10:40:52]  <ddeath> So it's for pearson who used Xlib or X Window Protocol in they apps?
 [10:40:59]  <ddeath> Thanks... :-/
 [10:41:15]  <ddeath> And sorry for few days distrubing
 [10:41:41]  <ddeath> But I'm working for very hard project.
 [10:42:07]  <ddeath> Not hard, becouse it's lot of fork, but becouse i must undestand how it's work
 [10:42:09]  <wereHamster> don't we all?
 [10:42:26]  <ddeath> Where Can I give question about apps such xscreensaver?
 [10:42:42]  <ddeath> In Xorg channel or maybe it's only for users.
 [10:42:43]  <ddeath> ?
 [10:43:27]  <ddeath> I need info about how create configuration file
 [10:44:49]  <ddeath> Config included to my system is not intresting for me, becouse i need to call a program when user press button
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[13:17:52]  <math_b> Hi, ddx commit 3298249d8267c27235653f17379f8c (xv: reformat source so mere mortals can understand it), breaks XV here (NV20)
 [13:18:56]  <math_b> I see flashing bands of green and purple over the normal image, after that commit
 [13:19:25]  <cjb> that doesn't sound good.
 [13:19:38]  <marcheu> math_b: this is so not for this place and so related in #nouveau :)
 [13:20:38]  <math_b^ I now... just wrong irc window ... , sorry ...
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[13:43:17]  <ddeath> Hi.
 [13:43:40]  <ddeath> Is the way to lock mouse message only to one widget?
 [13:44:14]  <ddeath> XSetInput with XNoneEventMask will does nothing!
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[13:56:35]  <daniels> ddeath: you probably want XGrabPointer, and also XGrabKey to execute actions on certain keys
 [13:56:48]  <daniels> googling for xlib grab xgrabkey should give you a decent tutorial or something
 [13:57:04]  <ddeath> Yes.
 [13:57:19]  <ddeath> But i will to make t work in preview mode
 [13:57:36]  <daniels> 'preview mode'?
 [13:57:41]  <ddeath> How can I grab output only to specyfic window?
 [13:57:44]  <ddeath> Sorry.
 [13:57:51]  <daniels> i'm not sure what you mean ...
 [13:57:54]  <ddeath> It's nod full screen app
 [13:57:59]  <daniels> yes, that's fine
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[13:58:18]  <ddeath> And I will only grab pointer form children of specyfic window.
 [13:58:37]  <pinchartl> daniels: are you involved with the xf86-input-evdev driver development ?
 [13:58:37]  <daniels> XGrabPointer takes a window argument, and works top-down instead of bottom-up.  so if you grab on the root window, you get everything.  if you grab on any other window, you only get anything within that window.  so there's no problem.
 [13:58:47]  <daniels> pinchartl: i try not to be
 [13:59:12]  <pinchartl^ I saw your name in some commit messages so I thought you were, sorry
 [13:59:23]  <daniels^ basically there's no change in keycode _processing_ between kbd and evdev, but kbd uses AT keycodes, whereas evdev has its own defined set.  hence you need model evdev right now.
 [13:59:35]  <ddeath> I check it.
 [13:59:54]  <ddeath> Maybe it don't work, becouse i used XGrabSync mode
 [14:00:05]  <pinchartl> daniels: so the keycodes reported by the evdev linux driver and the keycodes reported through the linux console fd used by the kbd driver are different ?
 [14:00:17]  <daniels> ddeath: there are a bunch of grab tutorials around that should walk you through the whole thing.
 [14:00:23]  <daniels> pinchartl: correct
 [14:00:31]  <ddeath> Ok.
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[14:00:33]  <ddeath> Thanks
 [14:00:49]  <daniels> pinchartl: well, they're correct for [A-Z][a-z], but different for others (e.g. up in evdev is print screen in kbd).
 [14:00:52]  <daniels> ddeath: np
 [14:01:14]  <pinchartl^ I noticed the up/printscreen issue. pretty annoying when you switch to evdev :-)
 [14:01:36]  <daniels^ yeah, that's mostly a bug in gnome
 [14:01:58]  <pinchartl> I had the problem with kde, but it was mostly my fault
 [14:02:14]  <daniels> mm
 [14:02:19]  <daniels> -> supermarket, bbl
 [14:02:25]  <pinchartl> ok
 [14:02:35]  <pinchartl> can I bother you a bit more later with a few questions ?
 [14:03:30]  <pinchartl> I'll take that as a "I'm already gone, but yes" :-)
 [14:06:01]  <ddeath> Sorry.
 [14:06:17]  <ddeath> I have one other think to do
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[14:06:47]  <ddeath> How to disabled mouse messages to specific window
 [14:06:56]  <ddeath> XSelectInput don't work
 [14:07:23]  <ddeath> I will try something like hook(steal) mouse message from one widget and remove it.
 [14:07:37]  <daniels> pinchartl: sure
 [14:07:57]  <daniels> ddeath: again, use XGrabPointer, and just discard them all
 [14:08:09]  <papillon81> dberkholz: could you tell me how to properly compile x11-drm on a ppc64 machine with 32 bit UL? I get this: "cc1: error: -m64 not supported in this configuration"
 [14:08:23]  <ddeath> But it remains message loop?
 [14:08:32]  <ddeath> It can be in other thread?
 [14:09:32]  <daniels^ i don't really understand your question, but if you have two threads, one of which is handling input normally and another of which has  grab, no, you're screwed.  if you want to hide stuff from your own process, well, you can't.
 [14:10:28]  <ddeath> I explain
 [14:10:40]  <ddeath> I creating wine and X11 based project
 [14:10:52]  <ddeath> Wine have something like X11 message loop
 [14:11:40]  <ddeath> So I must find way to clear mouse message quene(becouse apps inside my X Window cann't get mouse message)
 [14:12:08]  <daniels^ i still don't really understand, sorry.
 [14:12:11]  <daniels> -> supermarket for real
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[14:32:51]  <wereHamster> can I tell X to not switch VCs when starting? I have a bug somewhere and when I start X under gdb, X changes the VC and won't let me switch back to the VC where gdb runs. Or is ssh the only solution?
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[14:36:49]  <drago01> wereHamster: starting Y
 [14:36:58]  <drago01> X under gdb is not a good idea
 [14:37:01]  <jcristau> wereHamster: tell gdb to not stop on sigusr1
 [14:37:07]  <jcristau> but, ssh is easier
 [14:37:34]  <drago01> yeah just use ssh
 [14:38:17]  <wereHamster> the crash is fairly early when I start X
 [14:39:30]  <jcristau> make sure to disable dri then. because dri + xkbcomp + gdb is made of fail
 [14:44:21]  <drago01> wereHamster: try to get it to dump a core
 [14:44:25]  <drago01> and run gdb on it
 [14:44:33]  <wereHamster> found the bug, a missing memset()
 [14:44:38]  <drago01> ok
 [14:54:41]  <wereHamster> is dix/gc.c:CreateGC() not called before fb/fbgc:fbCreateGC() ??
 [14:58:39]  <ddeath> Can i grab mouse on EnterWindowMask??
 [14:58:50]  <ddeath> EnterNotify?
 [14:59:12]  <ddeath> And realse it on leavenotify?
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[15:48:51]  <ddeath> How can I embed a Window inside other?
 [15:49:02]  <ddeath> I must stolen mouse input.
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[15:49:31]  <wereHamster> take a look at grabs
 [15:49:41]  <ddeath> I read in freedesktop spec, that owner Window get any embeded messages
 [15:50:09]  <ddeath> If i used window identyfier than i grab whole screen
 [15:50:47]  <ddeath> Ok. I'm stupid
 [15:50:54]  <ddeath> How to do it?
 [15:51:25]  <ddeath> I call to XGrabPointer with confine_to as None
 [15:51:39]  <ddeath> But it's not all than i must do,
 [15:52:12]  <ddeath> If i set event_mask to NoEventMask, then this don't give me anything
 [15:52:18]  <ddeath> The mouse is always grabbed
 [15:52:46]  <daniels> um, why would you set event_mask to NoEventMask?
 [15:52:57]  <daniels> set it to MotionNotify|ButtonPress|ButtonRelease
 [15:53:38]  <daniels> i don't see what the problem is with setting the window you want to steal events from as confine_to, and MN|BP|BR as event_mask.
 [15:54:24]  <ddeath> Becouse i don't like to handle any X Messages
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[15:54:51]  <ddeath> And if I steal button event then i can't press mouse button outside my window
 [15:56:03]  <daniels> yes, you can, if confine_to is set to your window and not None.
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[16:07:23]  <ddeath> confine_to prevents that mouse window have leave this window
 [16:08:10]  <ddeath> I like to only my apps don't like mouse events.
 [16:09:05]  <ddeath> I don't like to steal mouse from server
 [16:10:29]  <wereHamster> I see that dixLookupPrivate eats about 10% of the CPU cycles. But how can I find out which code is calling dixLookupPrivate()? I used oprofile and it listed fbCreateGC() as the offending function. So I replaced the private handling code of fb/fbgc.c with my own implementation, but oprofile still shows that fbCreateGC() is calling dixLookupPrivate()
 [16:12:52]  <daniels> you do realise that fb is built as a module, rather than being built into the Xorg binary, right?
 [16:23:58]  <ddeath> Goodbye.
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[16:38:35]  <CE> any idea if/when REPEAT_PAD will be supported for pixmap-backed pictures?
 [16:41:57]  <cjb> Huh.  On the OpenMoko, input events are misplaced by 100px horizontal after rotation (so perhaps it's keeping the old orientation absolute?), but only with their glamo driver, and not with fbdev.
 [16:43:09]  <cjb> Anyone know what the relationship between video drivers and this kind of input rotation might be?  Is there supposed to be a way for drivers to acknowledge that the viewport has changed and reinit their orientation?
 [16:49:37]  <stillunknown> CE: Is that a special case?
 [16:49:55]  <CE> well as far as I understood its GL_CLAMP
 [16:50:20]  <stillunknown> indeed
 [16:50:23]  <CE> would be nice-to-have for pictures with transformations
 [16:50:45]  <CE> to not let the tranparent pictures arround the image bleed into the image with bilinear+ interpolation
 [16:50:53]  <CE> btw ... hi stillunknown :)
 [16:50:56]  <stillunknown> XRender has pad.
 [16:51:05]  <CE> yes it has, but its  not implemented
 [16:51:16]  <stillunknown> uhh, it is
 [16:51:20]  <CE> cairo has it too, not for x-surfaces
 [16:51:32]  <stillunknown> use a new cairo ;-)
 [16:52:01]  <CE> so its already there?
 [16:52:08]  <stillunknown> Yes.
 [16:52:09]  <CE> in 1.4.99.902 it wasnt
 [16:52:28]  <stillunknown> That sounds like a xserver version.
 [16:52:41]  <CE> yes, I am using render directly
 [16:52:49]  <CE> but had a look at cairo 1.6.4
 [16:52:55]  <stillunknown> Which also adds the question of which acceleration architecture.
 [16:53:06]  <CE> they only offer EXTEND_PAD for image surfaces
 [16:53:13]  <CE> both XAA and EXA
 [16:53:30]  <CE> i guess its just not there, really ;)
 [16:54:25]  <stillunknown> All i know is that from a driver pov you can support pad.
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[16:54:39]  <stillunknown> And i've done a rotated picture + pad test in cairo.
 [16:55:57]  <CE> yes, but that was with an image surface as source
 [16:56:13]  <CE> btw. thanks again for the test-case :)
 [16:56:19]  <stillunknown> So you have test case in render that works with a normal repeat, but not pad?
 [16:56:36]  <CE> yes, sure
 [16:56:48]  <CE> actually it forces the intel-driver to fallback
 [16:56:54]  <CE> but the result is still RepeatNone
 [16:57:01]  <stillunknown> Can i see it?
 [16:57:08]  <stillunknown> the code that is
 [16:57:13]  <CE> ok, I'll search it
 [16:59:44]  <CE> here it is: http://pastebin.com/m65e58145
 [16:59:58]  <CE> RepeatPad is set in createPicture
 [17:01:36]  <stillunknown> What is this supposed to look like?
 [17:02:19]  <CE> the whole composition area should be yellow
 [17:02:33]  <CE> filling pixels outside the source with yellow
 [17:02:33]  <stillunknown> let me make a screenshot
 [17:02:52]  <CE> which setup do you have?
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[17:05:42]  <stillunknown> http://madman2003.ath.cx/repeat.jpg
 [17:06:15]  <CE> wow that is strange ;)
 [17:07:08]  <CE> hmm, haven't seen it doing anything but RepeatNone until now ... so maybe its really a bug in the demo
 [17:08:12]  <stillunknown> Up until recently pad was a no go, it was a default fallback in exa.
 [17:08:14]  <CE> which xorg/driver version do you use? master?
 [17:08:23]  <stillunknown> I removed that a few months ago.
 [17:08:32]  <CE> cool, thanks a lot :)
 [17:08:43]  <stillunknown> xserver git, 2-3 weeks old i guess
 [17:09:03]  <stillunknown> the driver is the nv50 nouveau driver
 [17:09:03]  <CE> wow cool, so its already there *yippie*
 [17:09:17]  <CE> do you develop on nouveau too?
 [17:09:41]  <stillunknown> yes, but i did not do the render implementation
 [17:10:33]  <CE> I've just tested my stuff on nouveau and did not see a single bug :)
 [17:10:47]  <CE> you develop for the embedded GPUs right?
 [17:11:03]  <stillunknown> No, why would you think that?
 [17:11:16]  <CE> oh sorry, seems I mixed some thing :-/
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[17:11:40]  <CE> could you please re-test the demo without the scaling transformation?
 [17:11:53]  <CE> seems I really have to try master soon :)
 [17:12:17]  <stillunknown> sure
 [17:12:37]  <stillunknown> keep in mind that the intel driver is not so complete when it comes to repeat types
 [17:13:07]  <CE> well, i too ran into some bugs in the intel driver
 [17:13:11]  <stillunknown> The vertical yellow band has become smaller.
 [17:13:34]  <CE> was very surpised how well nouveau actually works :)
 [17:13:40]  <CE> :-/
 [17:13:51]  <CE> I don't have an idea where that vertical band comes from
 [17:14:00]  <CE> strange
 [17:14:18]  <stillunknown> Keep in mind that you're dealing with finite precision hardware.
 [17:14:28]  <CE> well, but at least it will be there soon ... really great :)
 [17:14:38]  <CE> hmm
 [17:14:57]  <CE> maybe its because the billinear filter
 [17:14:59]  <stillunknown> If you're ever in the mood, try expedite and do their scaling quality test, you'll see funny things.
 [17:16:07]  <CE> thanks, did not know about it :)
 [17:16:29]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ping, whats the expected hotel cost going to be at XDS?
 [17:16:47]  <stillunknown> CE: what's the name of the none filter?
 [17:16:56]  <CE> fast
 [17:17:01]  <CE> its nearest
 [17:17:26]  <stillunknown> Now i've got yellow all over the place.
 [17:17:39]  <CE> cool :)
 [17:18:00]  <stillunknown> You should bug the intel guys, repeating on modern hw should be easy.
 [17:18:02]  <CE> really cool to hear it will be in 1.6 very likely :)
 [17:18:41]  <CE> well on xorg-1.4.99 even pixman does the repeat stuff not right
 [17:18:48]  <stillunknown> I thought it would be in 1.5 already.
 [17:19:17]  <CE> at least on my machine it was done exactly as repeatnone
 [17:19:30]  <CE> acually not, because my testcase hit a driver bug with repeatnone
 [17:19:35]  <stillunknown> Then the sw implementation is flawed.
 [17:19:42]  <CE> and with repeatpad ... pixman did repeatnone the right way ;)
 [17:19:43]  <stillunknown> Because it's in 1.5
 [17:20:11]  <CE> hmm
 [17:20:18]  <stillunknown> As far as exa is concerned.
 [17:20:39]  <stillunknown> The intel driver does fall back, that i double checked a while ago.
 [17:20:39]  <CE> well I already feel guilty consuming your time
 [17:20:57]  <stillunknown> I would ignore you if that were the case.
 [17:20:58]  <CE> ...but if you have some spare time would you mind testing with ExaNoComposite?
 [17:21:20]  <stillunknown> It's not a time issue, but i can't really atm.
 [17:21:24]  <CE> thanks for your patience and your help all the time
 [17:21:30]  <CE> no problem ;)
 [17:21:42]  <stillunknown> The driver i'm using has some rough edges that get worse if too many sw fallbacks happen.
 [17:22:17]  <CE> ah ... I think i have  Fedora9 with nouveau 0.10 somewhere
 [17:22:22]  <CE> I can give it a try :)
 [17:22:33]  <stillunknown> For pre-nv50 everything should be fine though.
 [17:22:51]  <stillunknown> And nv4x has a very complete render implementation as well.
 [17:22:56]  <stillunknown> (6000 and 7000 series)
 [17:23:01]  <CE> 6600 is nv30, right?
 [17:23:06]  <stillunknown> nv40
 [17:23:11]  <stillunknown> nv43 to be exact
 [17:23:16]  <CE> ah yes, I was testing on nv40 then ... really impressed me :)
 [17:23:25]  <CE> quite curious how my NV18 will do
 [17:23:41]  <stillunknown> That will be less, for sure.
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[17:24:55]  <stillunknown> But it should still be workable, just don't expect fany repeat options ;-)
 [17:25:00]  <stillunknown> *fancy
 [17:25:11]  <CE> ok, I'll test a bit and if pixman results really bogus, I'll report them
 [17:25:53]  <stillunknown> Good idea.
 [17:26:22]  <stillunknown> I think many still don't use the scaling and transformation options xrender offers.
 [17:27:51]  <CE> yeah, it seems it not that well tested
 [17:28:18]  <CE> but overall the API is quite powerful :)
 [17:28:42]  <CE> a bit more multitexturing-possibilities would be cool ^^
 [17:30:04]  <stillunknown> You mean more than one mask and stuff like that?
 [17:30:45]  <CE> hmh
 [17:31:02]  <stillunknown> (opengl is not exactly my area, that's why i ask)
 [17:31:11]  <CE> would at least in my case from time to time remove the need for a seperate one
 [17:31:23]  <CE> but I guess that cases are rather rare
 [17:31:58]  <stillunknown> So you want to use the same texture twice?
 [17:32:55]  <CE> no, in my case I would like to use two masks ;)
 [17:33:21]  <stillunknown> There is one huge advantage to only doing a limited amount of things.
 [17:33:27]  <stillunknown> You can make it fast.
 [17:33:28]  <CE> but quite seldom case
 [17:33:49]  <CE> sure
 [17:34:03]  <stillunknown> I noticed that the guy who did this render implementation, preuploaded 5 or 6 fragment progs
 [17:34:11]  <stillunknown> And just references them when needed.
 [17:34:30]  <CE> on the nv40?
 [17:34:35]  <stillunknown> nv50
 [17:34:47]  <stillunknown> nv40 uploads whenever needed
 [17:34:52]  <CE> cool!
 [17:35:02]  <CE> and everything without specs
 [17:35:23]  <CE> any idea why nvidia has such troubles with 2d performance on nv50
 [17:35:32]  <CE> but only to a lesser extend on nv40
 [17:35:40]  <stillunknown> migration of pixmaps
 [17:35:49]  <CE> nv40 migrates less?
 [17:36:02]  <stillunknown> I don't know why the difference is so great.
 [17:36:20]  <wereHamster> daniels: I 'make install' after each change, so I'd expect the makefile to install everything that has been updated, including the fb module
 [17:36:32]  <CE> ok,thanks a lot again :)
 [17:36:37]  <stillunknown> My guess machine says it might have something to do with having an opengl driver and writing the 2d driver to match.
 [17:36:48]  <stillunknown> While the other way around could be faster i suppose.
 [17:37:36]  <wereHamster> does xcalloc() clear the memory (memset/bzero)?
 [17:37:59]  <stillunknown> it's a calloc
 [17:38:23]  <stillunknown> not doing that would be a huge bug
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[17:49:44]  <wereHamster> this is my oprofile callgraph: http://dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/output.png and this is my fbCreateGC(): http://pastey.net/92992
[17:55:52]  <stillunknown^ and why are you pasting this?
 [17:59:27]  <wereHamster> I'm trying to find out which part of the xorg code causes the high dixLookupPrivate, but I'm failing at it. I thought someone else might give me a hint
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[19:01:21]  <ajax> well, i don't know what XorgPrivateSet is, but it almost certainly has to do dixLookupPrivate
 [19:17:31]  <wereHamster> no, it has not, because I wrote that function (as a replacement for dixLookupPrivate)
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[19:43:26]  <fredrikh> wereHamster: you should probably read the "xf86-video-intel 2.5 release planning" thread on the xorg list
 [19:44:15]  <wereHamster> what for?
 [19:44:39]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: trying to find out about hotels this weekend
 [19:44:45]  <daniels> got to do some legwork and call around
 [19:45:56]  <fredrikh> wereHamster: because fixing the dixLookupPrivate performance problem is discussed in that thread
 [19:47:47]  <wereHamster^ Eamon wants to replace the linked list with a simple array. But it's not that easy as it seems.
 [19:49:36]  <wereHamster> I introduced a new api (XorgPrivate) that I wanted to test alongside the existing dix private handling, to see the performance difference.
 [19:51:07]  <wereHamster> so when I saw that fbCreateGC() causes most of the dixLookupPrivate() calls I replaced the private handling inside fb/fbgc.c with my own implementation, but apparently oprofile has been lying to me as it still shows fbCreateGC() as the biggest offender
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[19:52:07]  <daniels> wereHamster: and you're sure there aren't any macros (e.g. fbGetDrawable) that it's calling?
 [19:53:05]  <wereHamster> I changed the macros as well. I'm running the modified Xorg binary right now and don't see anything broken so far. So I guess my private handling code works ok
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[19:53:59]  <daniels> put an ErrorF() into fbCreateGC and make sure that code really is absolutely getting called?
 [19:54:57]  <wereHamster> I did that already, and it is being called. But I suspect oprofile lying to me since it shows other completely impossible callpaths
 [19:55:48]  <wereHamster> it shows for example that fbCreateGC is calling exaPixmanIsOffscreen
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[19:57:39]  <wereHamster> due to the heavy use of function pointers and wrapping it's very difficult to see all the code paths. I saw that exaCreateGC() is calling fbCreateGC() etc, so maybe gcc is doing something funky with the stack that confuses oprofile
 [20:01:43]  <daniels> also beware inlines
 [20:09:35]  <wereHamster> could it be possible that oprofile picks up the wrong libraries (/usr/lib instead of /opt/xorg/lib)?
 [20:10:19]  <daniels> strace knows all, presumably
 [20:10:35]  <daniels> strace -e file -o out.txt
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[22:39:01]  <ace_suares> !seen whot
 [22:39:21]  <ace_suares> whot ?
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[22:54:11]  <dberkholz> whot whot there's no bot
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[03:02:54]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ok thanks
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[03:09:55]  <airlied> Dr_Jakob: ping
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[05:41:01]  <mlankhorst> Just wondering, is there any documentation on how to play with the modesetting/gemini branch?
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[06:58:00]  <wereHamster> exaDriverInit() is called once per screen. Is there a function that is only called once when libexa.so is loaded and initialized?
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[07:06:32]  <stillunknown> i updated to the latest xorg-server and i now crash in __glXUnrefDrawable+0x1
 [07:06:35]  <stillunknown> Is this a known issue?
 [07:06:55]  <stillunknown> (this happens when i close a terminal)
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[08:10:42]  <stillunknown> Does anyone know where the code for fbGlyph8 is?
 [08:11:54]  <daniels> fb/fbglyph.c, i think
 [08:12:43]  <daniels> ah, it's GLYPH() in fb/fbbits.h
 [08:12:44]  <stillunknown> only fbGlyph24 is there iirc
 [08:13:14]  <daniels> yeah, look at GLYPH() in fb/fbbits.h
 [08:13:22]  <daniels> which is then instantiated as 8, 16, etc, from fbbits.c
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[08:21:39]  <stillunknown> I wonder who made that glyph code.
 [08:24:07]  <stillunknown> daniels: Any idea if there is a decent spec on the format?
 [08:25:54]  <daniels> probably not ...
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[08:29:13]  <stillunknown> keithp: does a spec on the core glyph format exist?
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[09:21:20]  <ddeath> Hi everybody.
 [09:22:06]  <ddeath> I tries to grab coursor only if it it's on my Window and realse it if it's leave Window.
 [09:22:25]  <ddeath> I uses XQueryPointer to do it.
 [09:23:00]  <ddeath> But I wanna that the child's of my Window gets mouse motion messages
 [09:23:06]  <ddeath> Hot to fix it?
 [09:23:43]  <ddeath> If I fast move mouse to my Window, then child widget will receive mouse motion message
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[10:20:34]  <ace_suares> whot ?
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[11:07:49]  <MaximLevitsky> Is anybody here?
 [11:08:02]  <MaximLevitsky> I want to ask a question about xmodmap
 [11:08:15]  <MaximLevitsky> is it frontend to XKB
 [11:09:00]  <MaximLevitsky> Is this true that both xkbcomp and xmodmap send new xkb mapping to X
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[11:09:16]  <pinchartl> hi
 [11:10:04]  <MaximLevitsky> and that xkbcomp creates the mapping from complex set of files, while xkbmodmap presents the raw interface
 [11:16:03]  <pinchartl> does anyone know where I can find documentation about the scancode->keycode mapping difference when using the kbd and evdev drivers ? I'd like to understand where and how the different mappings occur (linux kernel, X input driver, ...)
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[11:16:47]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl, I recently researched it
 [11:16:57]  <MaximLevitsky> reading the source :-)
 [11:17:13]  <MaximLevitsky> I try to explain
 [11:17:17]  <MaximLevitsky> ok?
 [11:17:46]  <pinchartl^ thanks
 [11:18:06]  <MaximLevitsky> First of all we have hardware keyboard driver
 [11:18:40]  <pinchartl> that's the same driver regardless of what X uses (kbd or evdev), right ?
 [11:18:49]  <MaximLevitsky> this can be i8042.c, usbhid, or any other driver like saa7134 IR input
 [11:18:53]  <pinchartl> ok
 [11:18:55]  <MaximLevitsky> yes for sure
 [11:19:41]  <MaximLevitsky> those drivers receive very hardware depedent keycodes
 [11:20:07]  <pinchartl> those are called scancodes, right ?
 [11:20:12]  <MaximLevitsky> yes
 [11:21:20]  <MaximLevitsky> They convert those scancodes to united set of (you name it, maybe a list of linux scancodes), but it is all the same among all such drivers
 [11:21:26]  <pinchartl> let's assume I got an azerty and a qwerty i8042 keyboard. will A on the azerty keyboard and Q on the qwerty keyboard produce the same scancode ?
 [11:21:59]  <MaximLevitsky> maybe yes, maybe no, but they will be converted to same 'linux scancode'
 [11:22:20]  <pinchartl> ok. where does the conversion occur ? in the keyboard driver or in the input layer ?
 [11:22:28]  <daniels> yes, a and q produce the same at scancode, and the only difference is what's written on the keys.
 [11:22:34]  <MaximLevitsky> keyboard driver
 [11:22:50]  <daniels> the tty interface will give you raw at scancodes.  evdev will give you the one unified set of 'linux scancodes'.
 [11:22:57]  <daniels> (as seen in /usr/include/linux/input.h)
 [11:23:22]  <MaximLevitsky> let me explain this futher
 [11:23:28]  <daniels^ xkb and xmodmap both control the keymap, yes.  xkb has a lot of complicated insanity that xmodmap can't deal with, but xmodmap can express a subset of xkb.
 [11:23:44]  <pinchartl> if I'm not mistaken there's an in-kernel mapping table that can be loaded using setkeycodes. where does that conversion occur ?
 [11:23:47]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: thanks a lot
 [11:23:56]  <MaximLevitsky> let me explain
 [11:23:57]  <daniels^ np
 [11:24:13]  <daniels> pinchartl: that mapping occurs in the kernel, specifically drivers/input/evdev.c
 [11:24:33]  <MaximLevitsky^ I don't agree
 [11:24:41]  <daniels> x itself doesn't translate the scancodes it receives, it just spits them out to the client as keycodes.
 [11:24:48]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: go on
 [11:25:02]  <pinchartl^ but setkeycodes affects the console, which doesn't use evdev if I'm not mistaken
 [11:25:04]  <MaximLevitsky+ i8042, and usbhis can send EV_KEY input commands
 [11:25:27]  <MaximLevitsky> but they use internal keymapping table for that
 [11:26:08]  <MaximLevitsky> i8042 can send raw keycodes as well EV_MSC with MSC_RAW but  that another stoty
 [11:26:16]  <mjg59> daniels: There's a trivial transformation between scancode and keycode, IIRC
 [11:26:21]  <mjg59> Something like +136
 [11:26:26]  <MaximLevitsky> no
 [11:26:42]  <pinchartl^ so the drivers send both raw scancodes (EV_RAW) and linux scancodes (EV_KEY) to the input layer ?
 [11:27:01]  <MaximLevitsky> yes, but only i8042 does that
 [11:27:17]  <MaximLevitsky> setkeycodes  can modify this mapping for usbhid and i8042
 [11:27:22]  <pinchartl> the others use EV_KEY only ?
 [11:27:27]  <MaximLevitsky> yes
 [11:27:42]  <pinchartl> ok
 [11:28:03]  <pinchartl> and setkeycodes changes the mapping table at the usbhid and i8042 driver level ?
 [11:28:10]  <MaximLevitsky> yes
 [11:28:20]  <pinchartl> ok
 [11:28:50]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: erm, i8042's internal mapping is just to turn what you get off the wire into a sensible set of at scancodes.
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[11:29:18]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: exactly
 [11:29:35]  <MaximLevitsky> but this is the first step
 [11:30:01]  <MaximLevitsky> since now all input drivers send same 'linux scancodes'
 [11:30:54]  <MaximLevitsky> usbhid does lot of magic too to convert usb messages to 'linux scancodes'
 [11:31:01]  <daniels^ yes, that's one part of it.
 [11:31:31]  <daniels> one part is shoving the raw keycode through EV_RAW, which is what's used with the kbd driver.  another part is EV_KEY through the evdev interface, which will be normalised to KEY_* from linux/input.h.
 [11:31:37]  <MaximLevitsky> the point is that all input devices send same scancodes, and setkeycodes can be used to tweak it
 [11:32:06]  <daniels> i think you're getting very confused about the raw scancodes you get off the wire vs. linux keycodes.
 [11:32:20]  <MaximLevitsky> yes, the exception is i8042 that _also_ sends raw scancodes
 [11:32:35]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: I understand this clearly
 [11:32:35]  <mjg59> Which is only relevant for evdev, not kbd
 [11:33:25]  <MaximLevitsky> now on top of input drivers are two dufferent drivers:
 [11:33:30]  <daniels^ as mjg59 says, the single set of linux keycodes is only relevant for evdev, and setkeycodes controls the translation from at scancodes to linux keycodes.  kbd just uses the MSC_RAW values.
 [11:33:57]  <mjg59^ Well, setkeycodes is required to get scancodes that are not otherwise mapped to hit kbd
 [11:34:09]  <MaximLevitsky+ you mean Xorg's kbd, right
 [11:34:19]  <mjg59> MISC_OTHER
 [11:34:29]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: I will explain this too soon
 [11:35:17]  <daniels> mjg59: right, thus controlling the translation between off-the-wire at scancodes, and what gets presented to the input layer.
 [11:35:52]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: yes, i do mean xorg's kbd, as pinchartl was specifically asking about the difference between xf86-input-kbd and xf86-input-evdev.
 [11:36:07]  <MaximLevitsky> ok, on top of kernel input layer, are sitting two drivers
 [11:36:25]  <MaximLevitsky> Xorg evdev, and in-kernel tty driver
 [11:36:45]  <pinchartl^ don't you mean in-kernel evdev ?
 [11:36:53]  <MaximLevitsky> no
 [11:37:09]  <daniels> erm
 [11:37:12]  <MaximLevitsky> I call in-kernel evdev, a 'linux input layer'
 [11:38:03]  <MaximLevitsky> on top of this sits xorg 'evdev' driver that reads 'linux scancodes' and passes them directly to x applications
 [11:38:31]  <MaximLevitsky> so the only translation happens in kernel i8042 or usbhid driver
 [11:39:25]  <MaximLevitsky> it is right that X applications use a special 'evdev' keymap to translate those scancodes to actual keys
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[11:40:46]  <daniels> that's not quite correct, the scancodes aren't translated.
 [11:40:55]  <pinchartl> MaximLevitsky: I'm having a look at the kernel input layer sources. setkeycodes updates a keyboard device table called 'keycode' which is used by most keyboard drivers, not only i8042
 [11:41:15]  <daniels> when using evdev, the linux keycodes (independent of what came off the wire), are passed directly through to applications.  how keysyms, modifiers, etc are mapped to these is controlled by xkb, yes.
 [11:41:26]  <daniels> pinchartl: that's what i was trying to say.
 [11:41:58]  <MaximLevitsky+ yes, but not all keyboard drivers use this 'keyboard device table'
 [11:42:23]  <MaximLevitsky> some just send keys (correct me if I am wrong here)
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[11:42:54]  <pinchartl> MaximLevitsky: most drivers seem to use the translation table. the sun keyboard driver does for instance
 [11:43:24]  <MaximLevitsky> yes, but my remote control driver doesn't use it ....
[11:43:38]  <MaximLevitsky> saa7134 driver
 [11:44:21]  <MaximLevitsky> maybe it does, I double check this, anyway this mapping is still driver dependent
[11:44:45]  <MaximLevitsky> Anyway you understand now how the evdev works?
 [11:46:00]  <pinchartl> better yes. I'm reading the sources to check a few details
 [11:46:02]  <pinchartl> thanks
 [11:46:05]  <MaximLevitsky> now let me explain how kbd works
 [11:46:53]  <MaximLevitsky> the in-kernel tty driver sits on top of input layer just like xorgs 'evdev' and reads 'linux scancodes' from it
 [11:48:32]  <MaximLevitsky> it translates thoes scancodes using a fixed table back to raw scancodes as if they were sent to i8042
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[11:48:54]  <MaximLevitsky> sent to i8042 / sent from i8042
 [11:49:11]  <pinchartl^ sounds like a waste of CPU time :-)
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[11:49:36]  <MaximLevitsky> and obviously drops some unknown 'linux scancodes'
 [11:49:53]  <MaximLevitsky> yes, but this is for compatability with xorg driver
 [11:50:55]  <MaximLevitsky> now xorg's 'kbd' drivers reads those emulated scancodes and gives them to applications in same way as evdev
 [11:51:03]  <pinchartl> what does the in-kernel tty driver send to userspace in console (non-X) mode ? an emulated i8042 raw scancode ?
 [11:51:15]  <MaximLevitsky> no
 [11:51:48]  <MaximLevitsky> it has its own rich keymap that it uses to translate 'linux scancodes' to text
 [11:52:14]  <MaximLevitsky> and escape sequencies for all non-letter keys
 [11:52:22]  <pinchartl> so it translates linux keycodes to text for console mode and to emulated i8042 scancodes for X ?
 [11:52:24]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: er, you're confused about kbd's role
 [11:52:39]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl: yes
 [11:52:47]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: what exactly
 [11:52:51]  <daniels^ kbd reads the MSC_RAW events, not the linux/input.h:KEY_* events.
 [11:53:13]  <MaximLevitsky^ kbd reads from tty isn't it?
 [11:53:22]  <MaximLevitsky> xorg kbd that is
 [11:54:02]  <daniels> yes, and ioctls on the tty to get only the raw events.
 [11:54:30]  <daniels>         if (pKbd->CustomKeycodes)
 [11:54:30]  <daniels>             ioctl(pInfo->fd, KDSKBMODE, K_MEDIUMRAW);
 [11:54:30]  <daniels>         else
 [11:54:30]  <daniels>             ioctl(pInfo->fd, KDSKBMODE, K_RAW);
 [11:54:44]  <MaximLevitsky^ I understand you, you are taking about raw pass-through
 [11:55:04]  <MaximLevitsky> K_MEDIUMRAW is almost unused
 [11:55:26]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: kbd used K_RAW mostly
 [11:55:33]  <pinchartl> so ioctls on the tty can be used to read raw i8042 emulated scancodes, and read() on the tty can be used to get keycodes translated to text+escape sequences ?
 [11:55:53]  <MaximLevitsky^ ioctls change the tty mode
 [11:56:10]  <MaximLevitsky> tty can ether send text or sancodes
 [11:56:14]  <pinchartl> ok, and read() then reads the scancodes or text+escape
 [11:56:20]  <MaximLevitsky^ yes
 [11:56:22]  <pinchartl> ok
 [11:56:24]  <pinchartl> got it nos
 [11:56:24]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: right, so it's not the same 'linux scancodes' (linux/input.h) which are at play here, it's something else altogether.
 [11:56:25]  <pinchartl> now
 [11:56:46]  <pinchartl> 'linux scancodes' should be called keycodes
 [11:57:18]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: when you read from evdev devices, you get KEY_*.  when you read from the tty in raw mode, you get whatever happened to be passed as MSC_RAW.
 [11:57:21]  <MaximLevitsky> input layer scancodes maybe
 [11:57:42]  <mjg59> The things in input.h are really not scancodes in any sensible meaning of the word
 [11:57:48]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: they're AT-ish.
 [11:57:56]  <daniels> mjg59: right, hence why i've been trying to refer to them as keycodes.
 [11:58:10]  <MaximLevitsky^ yes, this is special raw pass through, it is only used for i8042, and isn't default
 [11:58:24]  <MaximLevitsky> I will explain this too now
 [11:58:50]  <pinchartl+ if I'm not mistaken only the i8042 driver sends MSC_RAW. what happens when X reads from tty in raw mode with a usbhid driver for instance ?
 [11:59:04]  <MaximLevitsky> exactly
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[11:59:12]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: er, i don't know what you mean by 'isn't default', but the only thing xf86-input-kbd will pretty much ever read is the MSC_RAW events.
 [11:59:44]  <MaximLevitsky^ I did small mistake, the keyboard driver is actually called atkbd, ok
 [11:59:50]  <MaximLevitsky> not i8042
 [11:59:56]  <daniels> pinchartl: in that case, things are pretty much recanonicalised from KEY_* to AT scancodes.
 [12:00:13]  <pinchartl^ in-kernel by the tty driver, right ?
 [12:00:28]  <mjg59^ There's a mapping table in the kernel console driver that remaps KEY_* to things that look like AT scancodes, yes
 [12:00:28]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: yes, but i don't see what you mean by 'isn't default'.  it isn't the default in the sense that you have to ioctl() to get it, but xf86-input-kbd _always_ ioctl()s.
 [12:00:37]  <daniels> pinchartl: yes, specifically drivers/char/keboard.c.
 [12:00:40]  <daniels> (keyboard, obviously)
 [12:00:43]  <pinchartl> thanks
 [12:00:53]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: atkbd doesn't send MSC_RAW scancodes by default
 [12:01:00]  <MaximLevitsky> unless you use  atkbd.softraw=0
 [12:01:12]  <MaximLevitsky> in kernel cnd line
 [12:01:29]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: I did a deep research on this
 [12:01:43]  <daniels^ yes, i know.  but what i'm saying is that xf86-input-kbd will always explicitly select for RAW (and MEDIUMRAW if someone enables a bizzare, never-used, option).
 [12:02:09]  <daniels> so if you mean that random apps just doing read() won't get raw scancodes, yes, you're correct.  if you mean that xf86-input-kbd won't get RAW scancodes, no, you're completely wrong.
 [12:02:45]  <MaximLevitsky^ xf86-input-kbd will get emulated RAW scancodes
 [12:02:53]  <MaximLevitsky> from tty driver
 [12:03:01]  <MaximLevitsky> by default
 [12:03:03]  <pinchartl^ is drivers/char/keyboard.c maps key codes (KEY_*) to emulated atkbd scan codes, what are the MSC_RAW events sent by the atkbd driver for ?
 [12:03:07]  <daniels+ yes.
 [12:03:24]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl: I will explain now
 [12:03:28]  <daniels^ (emulated in the case of usbhid, as raw as atkbd.c will ever give you in the case of atkbd.c.)
 [12:04:09]  <daniels> pinchartl: basically for x.  it tries to give you as raw a view of the events as possible, to let you do your own processing of modifiers, etc.
 [12:04:15]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl:  there is a way to pass through the raw scancodes from atkbd to xorg kbd driver
 [12:04:34]  <pinchartl> ok
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[12:04:45]  <daniels> evdev also provides this, but it also happens to not be an abysmal hack with more to do with what keyboards from the 80s put on the wire than how you'd want to do anything with input.
 [12:05:07]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl: the atkbd can send so called MSC_RAW events if you its module option 'softraw=0'
 [12:05:23]  <pinchartl> so instead of using emulated raw scan codes which could lead to loss of information, there's a hack in the atkbd driver to send the scan codes directly
 [12:05:31]  <pinchartl> and this is used for X only
 [12:05:36]  <jcristau> MaximLevitsky: when you say 'explain', it sounds more like 'confuse'
 [12:05:46]  <daniels> pinchartl: yes.
 [12:05:49]  <MaximLevitsky+ then the tty driver will just pass through those raw scancodes to X
 [12:06:19]  <daniels^ you don't need to set softraw=0, because as i've been telling you the entire time, the only driver which ever reads from the tty (-kbd) _always forces RAW mode on_.
 [12:06:34]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl: and I happly use this hack
 [12:06:38]  <daniels^ MSC_RAW events will _always_ be used for xf86-input-kbd, unless for some reason you set Option "CustomKeycodes".
 [12:06:58]  <MaximLevitsky^ you mix two things
 [12:07:32]  <MaximLevitsky> MSC_RAW will be used, but atkbd won't send any thats all
 [12:08:32]  <daniels> i don't think i can convince you.
 [12:08:45]  <MaximLevitsky^ and thCustomKeycodes will force tty driver to apply its own keymap
 [12:09:16]  <MaximLevitsky> MSC_RAW, and KD_RAW are two different things
 [12:09:24]  <MaximLevitsky> thats the point
 [12:09:25]  <daniels> yes, i'm aware.
 [12:09:51]  <daniels> no-one uses CustomKeycodes though, so it's irrelevant.  KD_RAW is the only thing you'll ever come across, and no-one needs to worry about KD_MEDIUMRAW.
 [12:09:52]  <MaximLevitsky> MSC_RAW is send by atkbd if you use softraw=0
 [12:10:02]  <MaximLevitsky> you agree
 [12:10:03]  <MaximLevitsky> ?
 [12:10:51]  <pinchartl^ have a look at atkbd_interrupt. it always sends MSC_RAW events regarless of the softraw state
 [12:10:58]  <daniels+ yes.
 [12:11:16]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl, yes and no
 [12:11:18]  <pinchartl> line 389 in 2.6.27-rc1
 [12:11:19]  <daniels^ yes, it doesn't declare MSC_RAW capability if you don't set softraw=0.
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[12:12:02]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl: yes and no
 [12:12:19]  <MaximLevitsky> there actually two types of MSC_RAW events
 [12:12:28]  <MaximLevitsky> the raw data, and keycode
 [12:13:00]  <MaximLevitsky> raw data events if I remeber correctly are just ignored by tty driver
 [12:13:08]  <MaximLevitsky> and are send always
 [12:13:22]  <MaximLevitsky> I will check this
 [12:13:49]  <MaximLevitsky> no
 [12:13:56]  <pinchartl> there's MSC_RAW and MSC_SCAN
 [12:14:17]  <MaximLevitsky> MSC_SCAN is send always, but it is ignored by tty driver
 [12:14:17]  <pinchartl> they are both always reported by the atkbd driver
 [12:14:37]  <MaximLevitsky> but MSC_RAW is send only with softraw=0
 [12:14:41]  <pinchartl> and MSC_RAW is always sent at line 389 (2.6.27-rc1)
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[12:16:13]  <MaximLevitsky> pinchartl, yes, but RAW capability of input device is removed without softraw=0, so this call becames a nop
 [12:17:57]  <MaximLevitsky> in atkbd_set_device_attrs
 [12:18:21]  <MaximLevitsky> you can see this for yourself with evetest
 [12:18:51]  <MaximLevitsky> evtest
 [12:19:18]  <pinchartl^ yes, and the softraw module parameter is a default value only, and can be changed at runtime through sysfs
 [12:19:33]  <MaximLevitsky> exactly
 [12:20:02]  <pinchartl> does the X kbd driver set the softraw parameter through sysfs ?
 [12:20:12]  <MaximLevitsky> no
 [12:20:40]  <pinchartl> ok
 [12:21:13]  <MaximLevitsky> at least I have to set it manually to get my keys all work without this setkeycodes hack
 [12:21:57]  <pinchartl> and when using the evdev X driver you have to use setkeycodes anyway, right ?
 [12:23:02]  <MaximLevitsky^ for unknown keys yes, because evdev X driiver doesn't understand MSC_RAW
 [12:23:33]  <daniels^ evdev using MSC_RAW would be pointless and completely defeat the point of evdev.
 [12:24:25]  <MaximLevitsky^ I agree completly
 [12:24:59]  <MaximLevitsky> what we want is some basic remapping ability for evdev
 [12:25:06]  <MaximLevitsky> I want
 [12:25:29]  <MaximLevitsky> so keycodes > (255-8) will work too
 [12:25:40]  <daniels> so use setkeycodes?
 [12:26:15]  <MaximLevitsky^ but setkeycodes doesn't work with all hardware drivers
 [12:26:44]  <mjg59> Most drivers should have an ioctl for remapping
 [12:26:57]  <mjg59> (all the ones I've written do)
 [12:27:02]  <pinchartl^ the ioctl is handled in the input layer, not in the drivers
 [12:27:07]  <daniels> i think mine does as well, but i can't remember.
 [12:27:13]  <daniels> pinchartl: it also provides you an override.
 [12:27:22]  <daniels> anyway, we should just support keycodes > 255 in x.
 [12:27:26]  <MaximLevitsky> btw setkeycodes doesn't even allow to say what input device you want to operate on
 [12:27:47]  <mjg59> pinchartl: No, see the setkeycode method in the input device struct
 [12:27:48]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: but this will break X compatibility?
 [12:28:04]  <MaximLevitsky> mjg59:  I mean from userspace
 [12:28:16]  <daniels^ no, but people using the old api just won't get those events delivered.  people using the new api do.
 [12:28:25]  <MaximLevitsky> setkeycodes actually talks to tty drivers
 [12:28:38]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: not a bad idea
 [12:28:41]  <mjg59^ Erm. I wasn't referring to that.
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[12:29:31]  <MaximLevitsky> mjg59: and tty driver picks first input driver that accepts that keycode
 [12:30:00]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: this would be the cleanest solution
 [12:30:55]  <MaximLevitsky> or we could make XKB keycode <-> symbol mapping dynamic, and compress all supported evdev keycodes into first 247
 [12:31:17]  <MaximLevitsky> like make evdev XKB keymap dynamic
 [12:31:25]  <mjg59^ You can remap the scancodes in individual drivers
 [12:31:41]  <daniels+ i'd much rather fix the solution properly than work on an incredible unstable hack that required user intervention anyway.
 [12:31:42]  <mjg59> Not with the setkeycodes command, no
 [12:32:08]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: I agree with you
 [12:34:17]  <MaximLevitsky> btw here evdev doesn't work correctly, it doesn't autorepeat left and bottom arrow keys
 [12:34:43]  <daniels> that may be one of the bugs peter recently fixed.
 [12:35:14]  <MaximLevitsky^ good to hear that
 [12:35:27]  <pinchartl> thanks a lot for all the information. I made a little ascii-art drawing, is there a place where I can post it ?
 [12:35:52]  <MaximLevitsky> can I install new evdev driver with current xorg (ubuntu default)
 [12:36:20]  <MaximLevitsky> server 1.4.0.90
 [12:37:16]  <daniels^ yes
 [12:37:51]  <MaximLevitsky^ one more question , server 1.5 will soon be released?
 [12:38:50]  <MaximLevitsky> and will it include all those good things like mpx, removal of cfb/afb, and pleny of other old things...
 [12:39:20]  <daniels^ /t
 [12:39:36]  <daniels> the only thing standing between server-1.5-branch and 1.5.0 is a stable release of mesa.
 [12:42:06]  <MaximLevitsky^ but will 1.5 include most of the stuff in  -git I have seen? or development is far beyond 1.5?
 [12:42:54]  <daniels> 1.5 includes everything in server-1.5-branch.
 [12:43:16]  <daniels> you can look at that today and there will be no substantial changes between that and 1.5.0, just bugfixes, really.
 [12:43:25]  <daniels> (and 1.5.0 is only waiting for mesa, not on any of our development.)
 [12:47:52]  <MaximLevitsky> Ok, thanks, it would be really great if X supported > 255 keycodes
 [12:49:15]  <daniels> it's on the todo, and quite high up.
 [12:49:18]  <MaximLevitsky> btw, applications rarely use X scancodes, so a patch to XKB client library + some changes tio XKB will enable those scancodes to all applications, right?
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[12:53:40]  <daniels> keycode as CARD8 is part of Xlib ABI, which we can't break.
 [12:54:08]  <daniels> most apps just get struct xEvents, look at the keycode that comes in, and use XKeycodeToKeysym to work out what they should display, more or ess.
 [12:54:30]  <daniels> just get the toolkits to switch and the tiny minority of apps which don't use gtk or qt can deal with the transition themselves.
 [12:54:46]  <MaximLevitsky> I understand you
 [12:55:43]  <MaximLevitsky> And I guess > 255 keycodes will be done using some extension, maybe switch toolkits to Xinput?
 [12:56:26]  <daniels> exactly.
 [12:57:27]  <MaximLevitsky> great.
 [12:57:58]  <MaximLevitsky> this will make even joystick buttons work like a keyboard
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[12:58:30]  <MaximLevitsky> I could dump lirc, and just use my remote as keyboard
 [12:59:12]  <daniels> well, nothing really stopping you from doing that today; it's an x <-> kernel driver problem, not an x <-> app api problem.
 [13:01:25]  <MaximLevitsky> maybe yes, but it would be easier with wide range of keycodes
 [13:01:34]  <MaximLevitsky> right?
 [13:01:43]  <pinchartl> I got to go. thanks for all the information.
 [13:01:56]  <MaximLevitsky> you are welcome
 [13:03:09]  <daniels^ um, not really.
 [13:03:20]  <daniels> pinchartl: np
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[13:05:13]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: why?
 [13:05:55]  <daniels^ because every time you press a key on a different device, we tell the clients the core keymap has changed and they have to grab the new map anyway.  it's not all merged into a single map.
 [13:06:34]  <MaximLevitsky^ you mean > 255 key?
 [13:06:58]  <daniels> no, > 255 just gets dropped.
 [13:07:44]  <MaximLevitsky^ yes, and my tv remote kernel driver sends > 255 keys
 [13:08:13]  <MaximLevitsky> so with > 255 keys they won't be dropped
 [13:08:31]  <daniels> ah, yes.  well, you'll want to not do that in the meantime.
 [13:08:59]  <daniels> erm, but you do realise the KEY_* events don't go above 246?
 [13:09:07]  <MaximLevitsky> yes, sadly
 [13:09:10]  <daniels> BTN_* is above 246, but they're button events anyway, not key events ...
 [13:09:55]  <MaximLevitsky> and evdev drops first 8 keys, although it could map them at 247-255
 [13:12:12]  <MaximLevitsky> I am looking at 1.5 git branch and I see it doesn't include mpx
 [13:12:38]  <MaximLevitsky> when you expect 1.6 to be released?
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[13:19:39]  <MaximLevitsky> ok I need to go now
 [13:20:12]  <MaximLevitsky> goodbye
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[14:04:40]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: can I ask another question?
 [14:05:48]  <daniels^ sure
 [14:05:57]  <MaximLevitsky> Hi, thanks
 [14:06:26]  <MaximLevitsky> I see that xorg new input hotplug will be configured through dbus
 [14:06:28]  <papillon81> Hi. it looks like the x11-drm modules have a problem on ppc64 with 32 bit UL. they try to compile with -m64 but use the wrong compiler. I get this error message:cc1: error: -m64 not supported in this configuration
[14:06:54]  <MaximLevitsky> How about making other xorg settings configureable via dbus?
 [14:07:17]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: this will allow to get rid of xoeg.conf
 [14:07:21]  <MaximLevitsky> xorg.conf
 [14:07:29]  <daniels^ well, it's hal, and less about configuration than simple device discovery.  randr 1.3 will introduce gpu properties, and xi 2 already has input properties.
 [14:08:00]  <MaximLevitsky^ via dbus too?
 [14:08:09]  <daniels^ no, just as x requests.
 [14:08:33]  <MaximLevitsky> Thanks
 [14:09:19]  <MaximLevitsky> Actually I don't think there will be need in xorg.conf after that.
 [14:09:32]  <daniels> yeah
 [14:09:39]  <MaximLevitsky> "gpu properties" is what xorg.conf is used now
 [14:10:29]  <daniels> er, you can think of it as analogous to options in the Device section.
 [14:11:13]  <MaximLevitsky> input I hope will all be evdev, and auto configurable, so thats all, this is great
 [14:12:08]  <MaximLevitsky> xorg.conf is real pain for new users. I have never seen a normal xorg.conf gui editors, they all just destroy the current settings
 [14:12:35]  <MaximLevitsky> My first rule about xorg.conf : don't use any gui editors for it
 [14:12:56]  <MaximLevitsky> even for trivial things like keyboard model
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[14:15:28]  <daniels> well, if you use hal, you can configure the keyboard layout there, and pretty much the only thing you need to configure now is the fb size for randr 1.2, which is less of a valid configuration option and more of a software limitation that's being fixed.
 [14:16:08]  <MaximLevitsky> of course
 [14:17:33]  <MaximLevitsky> Thanks a lot
 [14:18:43]  <cjb> daniels: On the OpenMoko, the input (from the touchscreen) rotates along with xrandr when using fbdev, but doesn't when using glamo (the accelerated driver).  Have any ideas on what might cause that?
 [14:19:34]  <cjb> I was wondering if there's some "your viewport changed" callback that glamo might be ignoring, or something like that.  The touchscreen itself is gonna continue to give absolute coords.
 [14:24:34]  <cjb> Oh.  The rotation is all done in software in fbdev, maybe that's the difference.
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[14:26:39]  <cjb> but it must be doing some rotation, because the vertical coordinate is correct.  there's a -100px horizontal offset or so.
 [14:29:20]  <wereHamster> are the drivers (x86-video-intel etc) loaded by the DDX (hw/xfree86 etc) or DIX?
 [14:29:49]  <MaximLevitsky> DDX
 [14:30:03]  <MaximLevitsky> drivers are for xfree86 ddx
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[14:33:32]  <MaximLevitsky> I am looking at xorg -git and it amazes me
 [14:33:45]  <MaximLevitsky> How much dead code was removed recently
 [14:33:57]  <MaximLevitsky> you xorg developers rock
 [14:34:33]  <MaximLevitsky> Even xgl was thrown out
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[14:37:54]  <MaximLevitsky> Btw I think Xgl should be resurrected as a replacement for Xnest, what do you think?
 [14:38:33]  <MaximLevitsky> it supports all extensions, so it is great to use it to run a KDE4 in nested window for example
 [14:39:13]  <MaximLevitsky> but it should be cleaned of all full screen stuff, like the fact that it takes over main server xrandr
 [14:39:30]  <MaximLevitsky> and takes on keyboard repeat
 [14:39:39]  <MaximLevitsky> what do you think?
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[14:40:36]  <daniels> erm, Xephyr is a replacement for Xnest
 [14:41:23]  <daniels> cjb: we haven't hooked that up yet, so i guess they must've hacked randr to also call down into the input driver.
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[14:43:00]  <MaximLevitsky> daniels: but last time I tested Xgl was better in terms of speed, and extensions, for example Xephyr doesn't support SHM I think.
 [14:43:42]  <MaximLevitsky> and I would really like the Xephyer to be renamed to Xnest and Xnest to be deleted
 [14:43:54]  <MaximLevitsky> too cryptic name :-)
 [14:44:05]  <MaximLevitsky> And Xnest is unstable
 [14:44:31]  <MaximLevitsky> It usually crashes as soon as it is hidden
 [14:46:58]  <daniels> yeah, Xnest is definitely going to get deleting at some stage
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[14:47:14]  <daniels> xephyr supports pretty much every extension imaginable, and will even tunnel Xv and DRI requests these days
 [14:47:48]  <MaximLevitsky^ probably I tried old version of it, glad to hear that
 [14:48:28]  <MaximLevitsky> But please rename it to Xnest, or Xwindow, or whatever memorable....
 [14:48:53]  <daniels> er, it's hard to rename it when it's already existed for a couple of years ...
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[14:49:09]  <daniels> Xwindow is all the wrong terminology, and well, it's not Xnest
 [14:49:25]  <daniels> Xnest tunneled everything through to the host server, whereas Xephyr renders almost everything in software and then just PutImages
 [14:50:47]  <MaximLevitsky> so make it Xnest2 :-)
 [14:51:46]  <daniels> erm
 [14:52:10]  <wereHamster^ but xephyr isn't being built by default
 [14:52:34]  <daniels> simple to fix
 [14:54:20]  <wereHamster> xorg/modules/libexa.so, is that being built from ./exa/* or ./hw/xfree86/exa/* ?
 [14:55:13]  <ajax> yes.
 [14:56:35]  <ajax> hw/xfree86/exa contains the module loading glue, the option parser, and a few other minor things that depend on the xfree86 ddx's implementation
 [14:56:54]  <ajax> that, plus the top level stuff, becomes libexa.so
 [14:57:40]  <wereHamster> ah, so xorg/modules/libexa.so is device dependant, and not a generic exa module that can be loaded and used by different ddxen?
 [14:57:51]  <ajax> correct.
 [14:58:07]  <ajax> none of the other ddxes are loadable anyway...
 [14:58:10]  <daniels> xorg is the only ddx which can dynamically load modules, so.
 [14:58:12]  <daniels> ajax: snap.
 [14:58:20]  <wereHamster> and in ephyr the top-level exa is built statically into the binary?
 [14:58:44]  <ajax> yep.
 [14:59:13]  <daniels> (and any hw/xfree86-like glue required is just statically linked too.)
 [15:00:51]  <wereHamster> keithp said in one of his emails regarding the private handling: The private indicies should be allocated per object-type instead of
 [15:00:55]  <wereHamster> globally;
 [15:01:47]  <daniels> right ...
 [15:02:46]  <wereHamster> but none of the code I see has an entry point that is called only once. All modules provide equivalent to xxxScreenInit() which is called once per screen.
 [15:04:37]  <daniels> right ...
 [15:04:50]  <wereHamster> so where should the 'I, exa, want to reserve a pointer in the array attached to all windows' be put? Into exaScreenInit() guarded by a 'static int doInitializeOnlyOnce' ?
 [15:06:33]  <wereHamster> or simple disregard the fact that some indices will be wasted when more then one screen is configured? (because X is slowly moving towards 'there is only one screen')
 [15:06:39]  <daniels> rather
 [15:07:14]  <daniels> the new privates shouldn't require you allocate anything upfront though, just use the address of a static variable as your index.
 [15:07:24]  <daniels> or key, rather than index.
 [15:08:06]  <wereHamster> that's how it works now. And the dix private code has to iterate over a linked list, which is slow. That's why the array/index was suggested
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[15:08:35]  <wereHamster> and explicit reservation of indices to avoit xrealloc() at runtime
 [15:08:40]  <daniels> mm, retro.
 [15:09:16]  <wereHamster> another solution would be to use some sort of hash table, but I doubt that will be any faster then the linked list
 [15:10:45]  <daniels> yeah.  devprivates get destroyed across generations anyway, so the old way was to request a new index whenever your index changed.
 [15:10:48]  <daniels> something like:
 [15:10:51]  <MaximLevitsky^ I tried the Xephyer shipped with ubuntu, and: 1) it resizes itself to fill all screen although I gave it screen size 2) totem crashed on video playback, and kaffeine too. I guess the new Xephyer is better
 [15:10:53]  <daniels> static int serverGeneration = -1;
 [15:10:56]  <daniels> static int key;
 [15:11:10]  <daniels> if (serverGeneration != myServerGeneration /* pretend i named this right */)
[15:11:17]  <daniels>     key = AllocateDevPrivateIndex();
 [15:11:20]  <daniels> something like that, anyway
 [15:11:41]  <daniels> MaximLevitsky: i think you'll find it'll be your window manager resizing it to fill the screen?
 [15:12:13]  <wereHamster> when does the server generation change? When I log out of gnome and see gdm reappear?
 [15:12:31]  <daniels> strictly when the last client exits, but yes.
 [15:12:58]  <MaximLevitsky^ could be
 [15:14:32]  <MaximLevitsky> commit "Bug #10016: Implement WM_CLASS hints in Xephyr." might fix this too
 [15:16:46]  <wereHamster> to what extent is the code in fb/ used in Xnest?
 [15:17:19]  <daniels^ not much, iirc it tunnels _all_ core drawing requests to the host server
 [15:19:56]  <wereHamster> that's why Firefix crashes Xnest when I open slashdot :)
 [15:22:48]  <MaximLevitsky> current Xephyer crashes video players
 [15:23:49]  <MaximLevitsky> I mean the one in ubuntu 1.4 I guess
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[15:25:18]  <wereHamster> --enable-xephyr doesn't imply --enable-kdrive?
 [15:25:55]  <daniels> it should
 [15:26:08]  <MaximLevitsky> I need to go now. Big thanks for your work on X, it really seems that X improves at unseen rate.
 [15:26:21]  <MaximLevitsky> Goodbye.
 [15:26:29]  <daniels> np
 [15:26:36]  <MaximLevitsky> thanks
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[15:27:29]  <wereHamster> daniels: does xephyr use fb/* ?
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[15:28:16]  <cjb> Dodji: around?
 [15:28:25]  <Dodji^ yes
 [15:28:27]  <wereHamster> I modified the private handling code in fb to use an array etc, like eamon suggested. Now I want to test it if it actually works.
 [15:28:42]  <cjb> Dodji: I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for fixing input rotation in glamo on freerunner.
 [15:29:07]  <Dodji> ah
 [15:29:11]  <cjb^ there's a -100px horizontal offset when in landscape mode, though vertical is correct.
 [15:29:12]  <Dodji> yeah, I should look into that
 [15:29:42]  <cjb> cool.  if you don't have time I'd be happy to do some gruntwork, but I'm having trouble working out what the path for input rotation is.
 [15:30:29]  <Dodji^ is there a bug for that ? I can answer the bug when I have time
 [15:30:38]  <Dodji> I am a bit under the water atm
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[15:31:29]  <cjb> Dodji: Yes, http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1244#comment:32
 [15:31:43]  <cjb> Mostly I'm wondering how glamo notices that we've switched to landscape, and what transformation it makes.
 [15:33:12]  <daniels> wereHamster: yes, xephyr uses fb/.
 [15:35:02]  <daniels> cjb: Xfbdev probably calls KdSetMouseMatrix in its randr handler
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[15:36:24]  <cjb> daniels: thanks.  is this bad because it's all software, or would it be appropriate for the accelerated driver too?
 [15:37:53]  <daniels^ np.  it's just as inappropriate for Xfbdev as Xglamo, really.
 [15:38:01]  <cjb> excellent.
 [15:38:01]  <cjb> :)
 [15:38:39]  <cjb> I'm confused about why it almost works, though.  Vertical's getting translated correctly under glamo.
 [15:40:35]  <wereHamster> daniels: Found that out myself, xephyr crashes :) That's a good sign though, now I'm _really_ sure my code is being used :P
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[15:47:35]  <Dodji> cjb, I _think_, in function GLAMORandRSetConfig(), a new mouse pointer matrix should be set
 [15:48:19]  <Dodji> like what is done in Xephyr, in the file ephyr.c, in function ephyrMapFramebuffer()
 [15:48:45]  <Dodji> the GLAMORandRSetConfig() function is in http://git.openmoko.org/?p=xglamo.git;a=blob;f=hw/kdrive/glamo/glamo.c;h=2c353ec91f7a566e00a184eb455a4408d33470fd;hb=master
 [15:49:07]  <Dodji> these are all blind guesses, as I don't have my environment setup on this box to look at that right now, sorry.
 [15:49:50]  * Dodji makes a mental note to look at the current XF86DRI breakage in xephyr soonish
 [15:50:43]  <cjb^ thanks!  will try
 [15:51:51]  <wereHamster> xephyr doesn't support glx? I'm getting 'couldn't find rgb visual' from glxinfo
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[15:53:09]  <Dodji> wereHamster, that's broken right now. I wonder why though. I think a recent change appeared at the XF86DRI protocol level that is breaking xephyr
 [15:53:17]  <Dodji> I need to dig into that
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[16:22:10]  <pinchartl> hi
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[16:40:18]  <wereHamster> what purpose do the files in miext/cw have?
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[16:40:58]  <airlied> wereHamster: they wrap XAA stuff to deal with composite from what I know
 [16:41:13]  <wereHamster> cw == composite wrapper?
 [16:41:19]  <airlied> yup.
 [16:43:03]  <wereHamster> is it that xaa doesn't know how to do composite so the wrapper is used to make the composite implementation easier?
 [16:46:57]  <daniels> yeah
 [16:47:32]  <keithp> wereHamster: xaa is easily fixed, cw was added strictly to retain ABI. A bad idea, as it turns out
 [16:48:27]  <drago01> if compat stuff is added people aren't happy if not (pci rework) they aren't either ;)
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[18:04:43]  <wereHamster> are the extension init functions called once per every server generation or only when the server starts up the first time?
 [18:04:56]  <wereHamster> functions like RenderExtensionInit() etc
 [18:06:27]  <spstarr> XAA? what's that? ;-)
 [18:06:55]  * spstarr is in EXA now and won't go back
 [18:12:35]  <jcristau> wereHamster: once per generation
 [18:13:02]  <jcristau> the InitExtensions() call in main()
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[18:30:13]  <wereHamster> protocol extensions have such entry point that is called everytime a new server generation starts up. But what's with exa for example? Is that only initialized through the drivers or other ddx glue?
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[18:41:27]  <daniels> exa is initialised through the driver
 [18:43:46]  <wereHamster> I have successfully replaced the private handling code in fb/ and render/, works fine in Xephyr, will try to run Xorg later.
 [18:45:18]  <wereHamster> there are some details left that have to be worked out though
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[19:34:58]  <wereHamster> does xorg have a 'make reconfigure' to rebuild the makefiles?
 [19:38:08]  <whot^ running config.status does it
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[19:45:18]  <wereHamster> `x11perf -aa10text` is about seven times faster inside xephyr then in my normal xserver (intel driver). Can it be that a purely s/w implementation is so much faster then hardware?
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[20:04:41]  <wereHamster> I think the results so far are pretty impressive: http://pastey.net/93041
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[20:25:19]  <cjb> Dodji: hm, no luck so far -- I added this to the bottom of GLAMORandRSetConfig, but no change in behavior:
 [20:25:20]  <cjb> KdComputeMouseMatrix (&m, randr, screen->width, screen->height);
 [20:25:22]  <cjb> KdSetMouseMatrix (&m);
 [20:25:51]  <cjb> (screen->width and height are 640x480 at that point, which is the correct new orientation)
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[20:33:54]  <airlied> wereHamster: yes a lot of sw is faster than hw.
 [20:34:01]  <airlied> esp when the hw setup costs are high.
 [20:35:51]  <cjb> Dodji: ah.  furthermore, GLAMORandRSetConfig() calls glamoSetScannoutGeometry(), which already does the MouseMatrix steps.
 [20:37:46]  <Dodji^ ah
 [20:37:50]  <Dodji> I forgot that
 [20:38:11]  <Dodji> very weird
 [20:38:24]  <Dodji> I don't know off hand. I'd need to debug that further
 [20:39:40]  <cjb> okay.  happy to help if you'd like it.  I feel invested in fixing it now.  :)
 [20:45:53]  <Dodji> wereHamster, re it's normal that a purely sw implem be faster than hw, because there is no need to go access any bit in the hw memory.
 [20:45:59]  <Dodji> in the GPU memory that is.
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[21:14:24]  <KWhat4> So i just found out that xevie is no longer supported... does X provide another way to grab keystrokes globally ?
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[21:20:38]  <daniels> argh, shame he wasn't any more patient.
 [21:20:46]  <daniels> i would love to find out what people actually want to use xevie for.
 [21:21:32]  <whot^ doesnt XIM use it?
 [21:23:39]  <airlied> I also thought some of the GNOME accessiblity stuff.
 [21:24:50]  <daniels> xim doesn't use it, and i don't know of any a11y stuff using it, but would love to find out.
 [21:25:01]  <daniels> no-one's told me that they're using it yet.  admittedly i haven't been trying hard enough to find out.
 [21:26:05]  <daniels> let's find out.
 [21:26:19]  <airlied> gok and at-spi
 [21:26:26]  <airlied> on Fedora 9
 [21:26:47]  <airlied> which would be GNOME accessiblity
 [21:31:42]  <airlied> so that sould suck, not sure gok works at all with xevie.
 [21:31:52]  <airlied> without xevie even
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[22:13:10]  <KWhat4> Is there a replacement for xevie?
 [22:15:07]  <antrik^ if you don't run away immediately again, someone might answer :-)
 [22:15:27]  <KWhat4> haha sorry i had to take care of a few things =)
 [22:15:33]  <KWhat4> i will be here for a while i promise
[22:16:02]  <antrik> from the earlier attempt:
 [22:16:06]  <antrik> <KWhat4:#xorg-devel> So i just found out that xevie is no longer supported... does X provide another way to grab keystrokes globally ?
 [22:16:06]  <antrik> *** Signoff: KWhat4 has quit ("Leaving.") [Mon Aug  4 03:19:06 2008]
 [22:16:07]  <antrik> <daniels:#xorg-devel> argh, shame he wasn't any more patient.
 [22:16:07]  <antrik> <daniels:#xorg-devel> i would love to find out what people actually want to use xevie for.
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[22:16:27]  <KWhat4> hehe
[22:18:03]  <KWhat4> daniels: i use it for global key hooking, like if i need a key to always bind do an action regardless of what application has focus.  For example, a push to talk voip program like ventrilo.   http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Ventrilo_Via_Wine#Push_to_Talk_Hotkey_Hack
 [22:20:38]  <daniels^ erm, XGrabKey.
 [22:20:50]  <daniels> same way you implement shortcuts everywhere else ...
 [22:21:00]  <KWhat4^ i remember trying to use that, but it wont forward keys
[22:22:14]  <KWhat4> xevie was also nice because it would grab all keys,  makes JNI real easy with current key listeners
[22:22:34]  <KWhat4> mmmm i am going to have to rework quite a few things
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[22:23:46]  <daniels> KWhat4: 'forward keys'?
 [22:24:35]  <KWhat4^ i could be wrong its been a while, let me play around with it... Can XGrabKey get keys to opengl windows
[22:26:33]  <daniels^ XGrabKey will deliver you any key on a keyboard, unless there's an open active grab.  if you have apps holding active grabs, threaten the developers' families until they change this.
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[22:32:11]  <daniels> KWhat4: so i assume you're the bug submitter, btw?
 [22:32:21]  <KWhat4> ahhh yes that was me
[22:32:42]  <daniels> cool
 [22:32:51]  <daniels> saves having to go through the process twice.
 [22:33:05]  <KWhat4> yes thank you.
 [22:33:18]  <KWhat4> I have more more question if you dont mind... I'm not much of a c person.
 [22:33:25]  <KWhat4> what is the grab_window
[22:33:35]  <KWhat4> i think its the window to listen on
[22:33:40]  <KWhat4> but i would liek to listen on all windows
[22:34:07]  <whot^ all event coordinates are in relation to the grab_window
 [22:35:04]  <KWhat4> mmmm, ok so is there a root window as in the screen ?
 [22:35:44]  <whot^ ?
 [22:36:23]  <KWhat4^ i am trying to mimic the global behavior or xevie, so I'm not sure what to put in that argument
[22:37:05]  <whot^ you can use the root window, it that's what you mean
 [22:37:57]  <KWhat4^ maybe I'm not exactly sure, but it sounds correct
 [22:39:07]  <daniels> yeah
 [22:41:07]  <whot^ turns out the xkb patches really trigger the map width >= 2 bug now
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[22:43:24]  <daniels> whot: yeah, i think we just need to get rid of curKeySyms, at which point the problem is at least debuggable if not fixed.  guess we'll find out in a couple of days. :)
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[22:44:24]  <KWhat4> so how do i get the root window?  display->GetRootWindow() tells me we have an invalid pointer type
[22:45:30]  <daniels> erm, that's a C++ism
 [22:45:34]  <daniels> RootWindow(dpy)
 [22:51:43]  <KWhat4> X Error of failed request:  BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)
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[22:54:01]  <daniels>        If some other client has issued a XGrabKey with the same key combination on the same window, a BadAccess error
 [22:54:04]  <daniels>        results.  When using AnyModifier or AnyKey, the request fails completely, and a BadAccess error results (no grabs
 [22:54:07]  <daniels>        are established) if there is a conflicting grab for any combination.
 [22:54:57]  <KWhat4> ehhhhhh so anykeys not going to work
[22:55:50]  <daniels> er, why on earth would you want to grab every single key there is?
 [22:56:10]  <daniels> you said before that you want to do shortcuts, so just grab on the key you actually want to trigger a shortcut from ...
 [22:57:18]  <KWhat4^ you familiar with the java keybaord listener
[22:59:32]  <daniels^ not in the least
 [23:00:52]  <KWhat4> there i was origanlly trying to seamlessly do a global keyboard hook in the same way that java does, anyway it allows the java programmer to get en event on each key
[23:01:03]  <daniels> ... why?
 [23:01:20]  <KWhat4> cause java doesnt do global shortcuts
[23:01:31]  <daniels> okay, well, x does, so you're fine?
 [23:01:50]  <KWhat4> well i will have to rewrite the jni, shudders
 [23:02:59]  <daniels> ah, hooray for java
 [23:03:29]  <KWhat4> i like the lang hate the limitations
[23:03:30]  <daniels> the point is that whole-keyboard grabs are used as guarantees that you really have _all_ input.  the primary two cases are popup menus and the screensaver.  both will get very upset if you're trying to intercept everything.
 [23:31:00]  <airlied^ so did we dump xevie without asking gnome keyboard people if they wanted it?
 [23:31:05]  <airlied> seems like some kind of stupid.
 [23:32:59]  <whot^ I think it's been broken for a while now
 [23:33:36]  <airlied^ guess what you might have to do then :)
 [23:34:12]  <airlied> the thing with accessiblity is none of us ever use it, but we won't know it doesn't work until it hits a distro.
 [23:35:00]  <airlied> whot: we might need to talk to mclasen about it..
 [23:35:26]  <ajax> amusingly, we build the client lib, but not the server support.
 [23:35:51]  <ajax> the lights are on but nobody's home
 [23:37:03]  <airlied^ oh maybe we never shipped it in Fedora servers enabled.
 [23:37:08]  <airlied> then that would be even more winning.
 [23:37:19]  * airlied wonders wtf gok is doing then.
 [23:38:04]  <ajax> mmm, i lie.  the server support is built, just not enabled per default.
 [23:38:30]  <ajax> still it's not like enabling accessibility goes and munges your config file
 [23:38:56]  <airlied> gok must be doing something manually.
 [23:39:09]  <airlied> it has support for building with it, and for if it fails.
 [23:39:30]  <airlied> and it only asks for pointermotionmask
 [23:41:11]  <airlied> "XevieStart() failed, only one client is allowed to do event int exception"
 [23:41:15]  <airlied> from at-spi.
 [23:41:20]  <airlied> so maybe nobody really needs it.
 [23:46:32]  <benjsc> is it possible to tell jhbuild not to fetch and just to rebuild?
 [23:47:22]  <whot^ --no-network IIRC
 [23:47:41]  <benjsc> txk
 [23:47:54]  <KWhat4> we have more xevie stuff
[23:53:36]  <KWhat4> mmmmm do i have todo somethign special to get XGrabKey( to have XNextEvent( fire events
[23:59:31]  <KWhat4> doesnt seem to work
[23:59:46]  <KWhat4> KeyCode key = XKeysymToKeycode(display, XStringToKeysym("a"));
 [23:59:46]  <KWhat4> XGrabKey(display, key, KeyPressMask | KeyReleaseMask, DefaultRootWindow(display), False, GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync);
 ----- [2008-08-04] -----
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[00:06:57]  <whot> KWhat4: grab succeeds?
 [00:07:10]  <KWhat4> well i dont get an error
[00:07:13]  <KWhat4> is the a return code
[00:09:04]  <whot^ arg 3 should be modifiers, not mask
 [00:10:19]  <KWhat4> as in XGrabKey(display, key, KeyPress | KeyRelease, DefaultRootWindow(display), True, GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync);
 [00:10:43]  <whot^ yeah, check the man page, you have to specify AnyModifier or the like
 [00:12:35]  <KWhat4> well any modifier throws errors
[00:13:23]  <KWhat4> ahhhh
 [00:13:24]  <KWhat4> ice
[00:14:20]  <KWhat4> issue, keys are not sent to the focus window
[00:31:56]  <KWhat4> whot you still there
[00:32:12]  <whot^ I think so. let me have a look.
 [00:32:21]  <whot> yeah. i'm sitting in front of the computer
 [00:33:14]  <KWhat4> http://pastebin.com/d51b71588
 [00:33:47]  <KWhat4> whot: it seems to grab the keys now but if i bind 'e' then i can no long type 'e's
 [00:34:29]  <KWhat4> s/long/longer
 [00:35:18]  <whot^ uhm, yeah. that's the point of a grab. you need to get a sync grab and ReplayKeyboard (XAllowEvents) if you want to do that
 [00:39:23]  <KWhat4^ is there actually a function called replaykeyboard or are your refering to XAllowEvents(display, ReplayKeyboard, time)
[00:40:31]  <whot^ the latter
 [00:42:52]  <KWhat4^ ok new issue, added the replay keyboard and now although i get the key events to there destination i do not get a KeyReleased Event ....
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[00:47:08]  <whot> KWhat4: oh, yeah. when you replay, you async the grab. I think there's a trick around that, but I cant remember off heart
 [00:57:19]  <KWhat4^ any idea where i should look for that trick
[00:58:50]  <whot^ man pages I guess
 [01:24:45]  <KWhat4> ahh i give up tonight
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[02:50:23]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:03:29]  <Quentusrex-lapto> Who knows about the intel hdmi audio+video feature in the new xf86-video-intel driver?
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[03:18:01]  <daniels> airlied: yeah, i asked the gnome a11y people, we'll see what they say.  i still think xevie's fundamentally broken.  it's a  hack around needing to bypass grabs.  soon someone will create something that wraps above xevie too. more layers!woo.
 [03:18:30]  <tjaalton> so which rules should be used with input-hotplug, xorg or base?
 [03:19:04]  <daniels^ base
 [03:19:07]  <daniels> xorg is the old name
 [03:19:22]  <tjaalton^ ah, thanks.. couldn't figure out the differenc
 [03:19:24]  <tjaalton> +e
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[03:23:31]  <daniels> there is none; xorg is a compat symlink to base
 [03:23:40]  <tjaalton> heh, right ;)
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[03:36:28]  <whot> daniels: do you have any guesses what causes the spurious groups to be created?
 [03:36:33]  <whot> so I know where to start looking for it?
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[03:39:22]  <daniels> whot: the comment on XkbCopyKeymap is a fair clue.  if it's not XkbUpdateKeyTypesFromCore (or the reverse, i can't remember the name, but it's called in a loop from ProcXkbGetKbdByName, to update the core map from the xkb map), then i guess it has to be XCK fucking the types up.  i'm planning to look at it this week if you have other stuff on your plate.
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[03:43:13]  <whot> daniels: not sure if i'll get to it, I'm way too slow debugging xkb
 [03:43:23]  <whot> but thx anyway
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[03:46:04]  <daniels> np
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[03:47:35]  <whot> daniels: on that note, do you have any idea for the correct fix of the pc105/evdev keymap issue?
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[03:48:49]  <daniels> whot: i don't think we can ever fix it completely, as clients still want to precompile maps and send them over, and those maps may well be pc105.  we could just say screw it and flip the switch upstream, change the default to evdev.
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[03:49:31]  <whot> daniels: \o/
 [03:50:30]  <benjsc> is there some trick to building libGL with jhbuild, it keeps dying like it's running mesa's old config setup
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[05:31:13]  <Quentusrex-lapto> Who knows about the intel hdmi audio+video feature in the new xf86-video-intel driver? I'm trying to help get it's development finished.
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[05:37:13]  <MrCooper> Quentusrex-lapto: try #intel-gfx maybe
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[05:58:23]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: ping
 [05:58:50]  <MrCooper> ack stillunknown
 [05:58:58]  <stillunknown> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16884
 [05:59:06]  <stillunknown> does that patch look ok to you?
 [06:00:27]  <MrCooper> I don't see any problem with it, but krh probably knows best, and the bug's already assigned to him...
 [06:01:26]  <stillunknown> It was filed several days ago and the crasher is not so nice.
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[06:08:04]  <wereHamster> is there a reason why FocusSemaphores aren't part of the Window structure and are instead attached as private data?
 [06:09:15]  <wereHamster> was ABI compatibility the reason when the focus semaphores were added?
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[08:26:24]  <whot> wereHamster: IIRC eamon is working on pushing them into the struct
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[08:56:49]  <wereHamster> so breaking the ABI isn't considered a crime anymore? :)
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[09:06:15]  <whot> wereHamster: depends on when, I guess :)
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[09:15:10]  <wereHamster> between major releases
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[09:22:33]  <daniels> wereHamster: er, breaking the abi between major releases is fine.  breaking the api is okay if it's justifiable.
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[09:24:58]  <wereHamster> that's what I had thought
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[09:40:35]  <svu> daniels, ping?
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[10:14:28]  <daniels> svu: hi
 [10:15:16]  <svu^ did you see new bug I was proud to assign to you?;)
 [10:17:07]  <daniels> heh, i did, and i agree it would be mad useful
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[10:30:58]  <whot> daniels: what's the XDS preferred hotel?
 [10:39:28]  <daniels^ ringing around today to find out
 [10:39:47]  <whot^ thx
 [10:41:03]  <daniels> i'll let you guys know as soon as i do
 [10:42:23]  <johnflux^ could you let me know as well please
 [10:42:40]  <daniels> i won't be keeping it a secret ...
 [10:42:46]  <daniels> it'll be on the wiki, mailing list, etc
 [10:43:19]  <marcheu> what if someone who hates blurry fonts plants a bomb at the hotel ?
 [10:44:07]  <whot^ that ain't gonna help with improving the fonts, so I think we're safe :)
 [10:46:18]  <jcristau^ thanks for pushing the evdev fd leak fix. i wasn't sure if that needed fixing in the driver or in xf86DeleteInput.
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[10:48:26]  <whot> jcristau: nah, xf86DI only deletes the structs, doesnt touch the contents. thx for the patch
 [10:49:07]  <KWhat4> Anyone know how to get XGrabKey and XAllowEvents(ReplayKeyboard) to replay KeyRelease events
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[11:24:33]  <Ciroc> hey what is this?
 [11:24:35]  <Ciroc> SetClientVersion: 0 9
 [11:24:39]  <Ciroc> (EE) DoSwapInterval: cx = 0x17ef270, GLX screen = 0x862c50
 [11:24:43]  <Ciroc> Backtrace:
 [11:24:43]  <Ciroc> 0: /usr/bin/X(xf86SigHandler+0x6a) [0x490eba]
 [11:24:43]  <Ciroc> 1: /lib/libc.so.6 [0x7f934127a2c0]
 [11:24:43]  <Ciroc> 2: /lib/libc.so.6 [0x7f9341598a20]
 [11:24:43]  <Ciroc> Fatal server error:
 [11:24:44]  <Ciroc> Caught signal 11.  Server aborting
 [11:24:54]  <ajax> it's a crash
 [11:25:06]  <Ciroc> where i go?
 [11:25:06]  <ajax> (helpful, aren't i!)
 [11:25:26]  <Ciroc> yes now ans
 [11:25:53]  <daniels^ bugs.freedesktop.org, attach (not paste) your _full_ /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and note exactly what you were doing at the time (bonus points if it's reproducible)
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[11:26:22]  <Ciroc> reproducable by what standard are we version checking?
 [11:26:41]  <Ciroc> so no one knows what that means
 [11:26:52]  <Ciroc> i dont wanna turn in a bug i just wanna fix it
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[11:27:44]  <daniels> well, if you want to fix it, feel free to attach a patch instead
 [11:27:54]  <KWhat4^ you wouldnt happen to know how to get KeyRelease from XGrabKey +XAllowEvents(ReplayKeyboard)
[11:28:07]  <daniels> reproducible in the sense of, 'do you have a set of clear steps that will reliably lead to the crash occurring'
 [11:28:21]  <daniels> KWhat4: not off the top of my head, i generally steer clear of client-side stuff
 [11:28:30]  <Ciroc> i dont think there was other than launching 3d
 [11:28:31]  <daniels> KWhat4: check anything that uses grabs though (e.g. any window manager)
 [11:36:07]  <Ciroc> anyone know a good guide to troubleshoot graphics problems?
 [11:38:18]  <daniels> is it crashing?
 [11:38:21]  <daniels> no -> cool!
 [11:38:23]  <daniels> yes -> file a bug
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[11:38:52]  <CosmicPenguin> rendering issues -> pretend they don't exist
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[12:06:15]  <mraudsepp> CosmicPenguin: the one in -geode is pretended to not exist, or really doesn't anymore? ;)
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[12:08:42]  <CosmicPenguin> mraudsepp: unfair - the rendering in -geode works fine
 [12:09:06]  <CosmicPenguin> and if you found a bug, the wrong way to report it is through cryptic IRC comments
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[12:11:23]  <mraudsepp> CosmicPenguin: warren saw it and I presumed it got reported, I haven't reproduced, don't have xorg-server-1.5 on geode system yet where this was supposed to happen.
 [12:12:10]  <CosmicPenguin> thats basically every bug report I ever hear
 [12:12:52]  <mraudsepp> well, lets pretend it doesn't exist then if there was no bug report even made :)
 [12:13:13]  <CosmicPenguin> then you'll run off and tell everybody that AMD is ignoring a rendering bug
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[12:16:28]  <mraudsepp> please don't make such unfounded claims or assumptions there
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[12:24:23]  <johnflux> I want to add a -geometry flag to my app
 [12:24:29]  <johnflux> is there a specific way to do this?
 [12:25:13]  <KWhat_Work> mmm, i am going to need some help, this is proving to be far more complicated than using xevie
[12:28:02]  <johnflux> comparing with xclock, it seems xclock uses XtOpenApplication  to pass in argv and argc
 [12:28:16]  <johnflux> whereas I use XCreateSimpleWindow
 [12:28:19]  <johnflux> hmm
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[12:31:51]  <johnflux> ah there's a XrmParseCommand
 [12:33:07]  <johnflux> which seems impossible to understand
 [12:33:16]  <johnflux> i need to pass a database (????) to it
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[12:43:44]  <KWhat_Work> "When you call XAllowEvent(ReplayKeyboard), you  also release the grab. So the release event is sent to the focus window,  not to your grabbing client. " is there anyway around that
[12:45:23]  <KWhat_Work> Or do i need to manually detect the focus window and send keys to it
[12:45:35]  <daniels> erm, what that's saying is the behaviour you want
 [12:45:50]  <daniels> the release event is send to the same window as the press event, not to the client with the grab
 [12:46:02]  <daniels> focus window -> where events would get delivered if it weren't for your grab
 [12:46:28]  <KWhat_Work> see i need the release event to be captured as well or the xkeygrab is useless to me
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[12:46:55]  <KWhat_Work> this is the closest to the problem i found but no solution http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=xorg&a=2008-02&t=6544748
 [12:47:50]  <KWhat_Work> only thing i can think of is to manually resend the keys while using a async grab
 [12:49:53]  <daniels> this is your filter again?
 [12:50:31]  <daniels> there are two options, really.  one, if you know no-one else will never need that keypress and it's yours, all yours, use GrabModeAsync.
 [12:50:52]  <daniels> two, if you know others are going to use the keypresses, use GrabModeSync and you don't see the release.
 [12:51:38]  <KWhat_Work> ehh, see this is why i need xevie
[12:51:40]  <KWhat_Work> i need both
[12:52:11]  <KWhat_Work> its almost never going to be a mod+key only a key so somethgin else will almost always use it,
[12:52:14]  <daniels> this is really not something the x input model supports
 [12:52:16]  <KWhat_Work> and i need the release
[12:52:43]  <daniels> so am i right in saying that your application needs, by design, to filter each and every single keypress that comes through the entire desktop?
 [12:54:06]  <KWhat_Work> well it would be nice but no, If i could get a key press and release while allow that key to be used by other applications that would be "enough"
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[12:54:57]  <daniels> okay, so the problem with the design i outlined is this: what happens when you run two? or just another app with the same thought process?
 [12:55:15]  <daniels> the problem with a single key is, well, why do you want to both deliver them to the focus window, _and_ take the event yourself?
 [12:55:33]  <jg> KWhat_Work: do you need all the key presses from all the keys, or just a single key?
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[12:55:46]  <KWhat_Work> jg: just a single
[12:56:09]  <daniels> if you just want the event and don't mind about shielding it from the other application, use XSelectInput.  but i'm struggling to see why you'd need to send it on to the focussed application, _and_ get the release as well (implying that two applications are processing it).  grabs are really meant to be either/or.
 [12:56:14]  <daniels> what's your use case?
 [12:56:20]  <jg> KWhat_Work: that's what key grabbing is for.
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[12:56:35]  <jg> you can grab exclusive use of a key in in an application.
 [12:56:40]  <daniels> i understood it was using a specific key as push-to-talk, which is generally on a separate key.  so you just grab that key Async and no-one else knows that you've pressed PTT.
 [12:57:13]  <daniels> jg: yes, we've been through this, but if you scroll up, he apparently needs to see the press, ReplayKeyboard to send it to the focus window, and then also see the release, which you'll note the grabbing model explicitly disallows.
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[12:58:02]  <KWhat_Work> daniels: ok so lets say in game i would like to bind 'b' to talk, well when I'm out of game i would liek to be able to type.
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[12:58:23]  <daniels> KWhat_Work: presumably when you're in-game, you have the focus?
 [12:58:36]  <KWhat_Work^ well the game has focus
[12:58:42]  <KWhat_Work> not the application
[12:58:52]  <daniels^ okay, so you're out of process.  in that case, you need to track focus in/out events on the game window.
 [12:59:20]  <daniels> take an Async grab on FocusIn, release it on FocusOut.
 [12:59:32]  <KWhat_Work^ except that i have no idea what game it would be
[12:59:40]  <KWhat_Work> unless there is a way to detect open gl windows
[12:59:52]  <KWhat_Work> then monitor for thoes events
[13:00:07]  <KWhat_Work> but this is getting seriously complicated for porting
[13:00:24]  <KWhat_Work> well maybe portings a bad word
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[13:02:51]  <daniels> how do you know when you're 'in-game', then?
 [13:03:08]  <daniels> presumably you need a way to know when to trigger PTT, and when to pass it on.  how do you differentiate?
 [13:03:36]  <KWhat_Work^ well the programs are created for windows where the windows key hooks very similar to xevie.
 [13:03:44]  <KWhat_Work> so these apps all just grab the key globally
[13:04:00]  <KWhat_Work> and they key events are just passed along to the focus app
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[13:04:49]  <daniels> KWhat_Work: i think you misunderstood.  you have an external application that grabs the 'b' key, yeah? and when you get this key event, you determine whether to begin push-to-talk or whether to just pass the event on, right?
 [13:05:05]  <KWhat_Work> ahh yes
 [13:05:10]  <KWhat_Work> and stop on release
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[13:08:10]  <daniels> KWhat_Work: okay.  so how does your application determine whether to begin push-to-talk, or whether to pass the event along?
 [13:08:31]  <daniels> since you apparently have some way of knowing when it should activate talk, and when you should just be typing.
 [13:09:54]  <KWhat_Work^ it doesnt. 
[13:10:17]  <KWhat_Work> if your typing and the ptt key is b when you type b it will breifly talk... btw this one isnt my app
[13:10:38]  <daniels> it sounds like you have bigger issues to solve than the keyrelease thing, then.
 [13:10:45]  <KWhat_Work> ran into this issue with wine and a windows app
 [13:11:08]  <KWhat_Work> its a problem going from windows behavior to linux
[13:11:36]  <KWhat_Work> "Without Xevie, we would have to either:  a) [Normal events] Accept shortcuts only when Mumble was the active application, making it useless for gaming.  b) [XGrabKey] Accept only key-down of specific combinations, so that you     could bind Ctrl-S to "toggle send speech". No binding of keyup in normal X11. "
 [13:12:48]  <daniels> yep.
 [13:13:05]  <KWhat_Work> soo the solution that mumble also came up with xevie ....
 [13:13:07]  <KWhat_Work> ehhhh
[13:13:25]  <daniels> the solution being that you get a short burst of microphone noise (or whatever) every time you press the 'b' key?
 [13:13:35]  <KWhat_Work> yup
[13:13:39]  <daniels> ...
 [13:13:40]  <KWhat_Work> not an elegent solution
[13:13:50]  <daniels> why don't you monitor the window list and check for specific games running?
 [13:13:54]  <daniels> and then track focus on them
 [13:14:36]  <KWhat_Work> well i would need to be for all games, so i would need a way to detect only opengl apps on linux, but then doing things like porting to mac and windows becomes difficult
[13:14:48]  <KWhat_Work> I'm not sure if i can do that on window or mac
[13:15:24]  <Lrrr> I'm pretty sure you can do that on Windows.
 [13:15:59]  <daniels> KWhat_Work: eh, i'm sure most people have less than 1000 games around, so just have a list, and allow you to add windows to the list.
 [13:16:53]  <daniels> even if you detected an opengl application with focus, that means that pressing b in most media players, anything using flash, glxgears, etc, would trigger ptt.
 [13:17:21]  <Lrrr> and that wouldn't work with games not using OpenGL :P
 [13:17:28]  <KWhat_Work> mmm yes... there is not good solution to this problem
 [13:18:23]  <daniels^ i think you just need to maintain a list of window names which will trigger PTT when they have focus.
 [13:19:00]  <KWhat_Work> yah thats going to be a huge headache
 [13:19:26]  <KWhat_Work> let me think about this for a while
[13:20:04]  <KWhat_Work> now that i know the limitation is not in my knowledge
[13:29:17]  <KWhat_Work> Is there a function to get the current focused window ?
 [13:29:44]  <daniels> XGetInputFocus()
 [13:29:51]  <KWhat_Work> thanks
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[14:04:10]  <KWhat_Work> Does XGetInputFocus not grab gtk windows
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[14:05:46]  <stillunknown> keithp: ping
 [14:07:49]  <daniels> KWhat_Work: huh?
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[14:08:58]  <KWhat_Work> daniels: XGetInputFocus(display, &focuswin, &revert_to); XGetWMName(display, focuswin, &text_prop_return); returns null when gtk windows have focus ....
 [14:09:56]  <daniels^ gtk uses subwindows pretty extensively, so you'll want to walk back up the window tree until you get a parent with a name.
 [14:11:05]  <KWhat_Work^ so use something liek XQueryTree and get parent untill i get something ?
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[14:14:23]  <daniels> KWhat_Work: yep
 [14:15:14]  <mlankhorst> Just wondering, how far is modesetting in development?
 [14:18:03]  <ajax> about four miles.
 [14:18:32]  <ajax> that's a glib answer, i'm sorry.
 [14:21:15]  <mlankhorst> o_o
 [14:21:38]  <pjones> no, a glib answer would be GMilesSetValue(4)
 [14:21:43]  <pjones> er
 [14:21:45]  <ajax> it's just not a very meaningful question is all.
 [14:21:46]  <pjones> with an object there.
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[14:22:21]  <mlankhorst> I'm interested in playing with modesetting and gem, but there are no instructions that even tell how to get it built.
 [14:23:32]  <daniels> pjones: GINT_TO_GOBJECT_SUPERCLASS_META_DESPAIR_GINT_MAIN_GCHAR_ARGC_GCHAR_ARGV_IS_A_GOOD_IDEA_HEY_GUYS_DONT_LEAVE_GUYS_GUYS(4)
 [14:23:56]  <pjones^ something like that, yeah.
 [14:24:12]  <mlankhorst> I think glib answer would be g_int_value_miles_set(4)
 [14:24:23]  <daniels> gint main(gint argc, gchar *argv[]) is still even more stupid than anything we've ever done with x.  seriously, wtf is wrong with these people?
 [14:24:38]  <pjones^ and that's ignoring GObject altogether.
 [14:24:44]  <ajax> maybe you have a system that doesn't have char?
 [14:24:54]  <mlankhorst> Any system has chars. o_o
 [14:24:59]  <pjones> ajax: in which case, you have bigger problems...
 [14:25:24]  <mlankhorst> void is the one that doesn't exist on some archaic systems, but even then it gets defined as char instead.
 [14:25:36]  <ajax> (yes i know.  that was the joke.)
 [14:26:09]  <daniels> mlankhorst: even then, the point is that you're proving gint and gchar are pointless.
 [14:26:33]  <daniels> main() is called by your c library.  so, either gint == int and gchar == char, in which case why use them, or they aren't, in which case shit's going to break.
 [14:26:48]  <mlankhorst> True.
 [14:27:49]  <daniels> s/===/&=/
 [14:27:55]  <daniels> er.  you get the idea.
 [14:31:54]  <wereHamster^ shouldn't that be gint gmain(gint argc, gchar *argv[]) ? (gmain)
 [14:34:35]  <daniels> assuming glib provided int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { return gmain(argc, argv); }, yes
 [14:34:52]  <daniels> that would arguably be less stupid than the current situation
 [14:36:10]  <mlankhorst> I never understood the glib fascination with redefining everything.
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[14:44:27]  <svu> daniels, talking about that bug - is it realistic? hard? I know you're busy - but if it is a cheap thing...
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[14:50:57]  <KWhat_Work> Is there a way to prevent apps from ignoring XSendEvent?
 [14:51:05]  <ajax> no.
 [14:52:03]  <KWhat_Work> well that idea almost worke d
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[14:56:14]  <mlankhorst> What kernel should I use for the i915-gem kernel driver? It fails on 2.6.26.1 with shmem_getpage and SGP_DIRTY undefined, I could export those from the kernel but I don't know if that's the right solution.
 [14:56:48]  <jcristau^ use anholt's kernel tree
 [14:57:48]  <mlankhorst> Ok thanks, I'll clone that.
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[15:05:22]  <KWhat_Work> is there a way to get the keyboard repeat rate?
 [15:06:57]  <jcristau> xset q tells you that
 [15:08:24]  <KWhat_Work^ anything more programmatically ?
 [15:09:00]  <ajax> whatever xset q calls?
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[15:16:19]  <wereHamster> where should I send these types of patches http://pastey.net/93079 ?
 [15:16:47]  <KWhat_Work> this may sound like a dumb question but where can i find the src for x
 [15:17:48]  <wereHamster> cgit.freedesktop.org
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[15:17:57]  <wereHamster> under xorg/xserver
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[15:32:55]  <mlankhorst> jcristau: Where is anholt's git tree? anholt.net seems to be down and it doesn't look like it's at git.kernel.org
 [15:34:25]  <mlankhorst> Or do you mean airlied's drm tree.
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[15:59:08]  <jcristau> mlankhorst: git://anongit.freedesktop.org/~anholt/linux-2.6
 [15:59:46]  <mlankhorst> Ok, thanks. :-)
 [15:59:51]  <mlankhorst> It has all the modesetting/gem stuff?
 [16:01:00]  <jcristau> not modesetting
 [16:01:22]  <mlankhorst> Ah well, I can live without that.
 [16:07:22]  <daniels> wereHamster: i've committed it and will push, ta
 [16:09:03]  <ds> compiling kernels is hard.  lets go shopping
 [16:09:33]  <krh^ shopping is hard!
 [16:15:56]  <mlankhorst> Lets go compiling kernels?
 [16:16:11]  <wereHamster> daniels: I have another one :)
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[16:17:59]  <wereHamster> http://pastey.net/93087
 [16:18:49]  <mlankhorst> Actually compiling kernels sort of turned into a noop for me, make oldconfig takes longer than actually compiling a kernel.
 [16:26:14]  <daniels> wereHamster: applied, will test and push, thanks
 [16:30:46]  <mlankhorst> I just wanted to try the gem branch to see if I could play any game with it in wine. :-)
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[16:36:08]  <wereHamster> hm. Core X11 requests don't have a minor opcode, do I read the code correctly? I only see minor opcodes used in extensions
 [16:36:25]  <ajax> correct.
 [16:40:09]  <KWhat_Work> is there a xsendevent alternative that will work with gtk apps
[16:40:28]  <wereHamster> fake events through the kernel :)
 [16:41:17]  <KWhat_Work> dirty dirty
[16:42:01]  <KWhat_Work> mmmm
 [16:48:59]  <wereHamster> wasn't as some point considered adding dpms support to randr?
 [16:52:29]  <ajax> yes.
 [16:52:35]  <ajax> we still should, in fact.
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[16:58:47]  <KWhat_Work> What are the valid Keymasks for modifiers
[16:58:55]  <KWhat_Work> ehh hold
[16:59:27]  <KWhat_Work> Valid key masks for XGrabKey(modifiers) aside from AnyModifier http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/input/XGrabKey.html
 [16:59:55]  <KWhat_Work> there we go found them
[17:00:33]  <tjaalton> would it be reasonable for the xserver not to probe ACPI every second and thus bloating the logfile if acpid died?
 [17:01:27]  <ajax> it would be even more reasonable for the server to not talk to acpid at all anymore
 [17:01:37]  <ajax> since we should be getting all relevant acpi events through the keyboard
 [17:01:58]  <tjaalton> splendid :)
 [17:03:06]  <CosmicPenguin^ I've encountered that same bug - its totally acpid's fault
 [17:03:22]  <CosmicPenguin> acpid is not well.....
 [17:03:39]  <tjaalton^ it shouldn't die, that's for sure
 [17:04:09]  <CosmicPenguin> Actually, I don't know if I've encountered your same bug, but I had a similar doozy
[17:04:30]  <CosmicPenguin> when the fd was closed on suspend - the other side of the pipe on acpid didn't get closed
 [17:05:12]  <CosmicPenguin> ran out of file descriptors during suspend/resume stress testing (once every second)
 [17:05:29]  <tjaalton> ouch
 [17:05:31]  <CosmicPenguin> So then, i figured out that I could flush it by sending it a signal to reload the config
 [17:05:44]  <CosmicPenguin> Turned out, _that_ code had a memory leak in it
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[17:24:58]  <KWhat_Work> How bad would using something like this be?  http://www.acm.vt.edu/~jmaxwell/programs/xspy/xspy.html
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[17:27:23]  <alanc> it can be broken by use of the various security extensions, and relying on it is a giant race condition/cpu-eating-constant-polling-monster, since you're hoping you query the server at the moment a key is pressed
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[17:39:44]  <tjaalton> ajax: looks like you managed to make the HAL script (fedora-setup-keyboard) work, something that I failed to do for ubuntu a while back
 [17:39:58]  <ajax> well i don't know that it _works_ works
 [17:40:03]  <tjaalton> hehe
 [17:40:06]  <ajax> it doesn't crash, on my laptop
 [17:40:14]  <tjaalton> it just hung for me
 [17:40:22]  <ajax> and it relies on the horrible mapping table we keep in rhpl
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[17:40:50]  <ajax> and i had to patch hal-set-property to make it work since neither python-dbus nor the system bus connection would let me actually set the damn property
 [17:41:11]  <ajax> but other than all those thing!
 [17:41:22]  <ajax> things, too
 [17:41:32]  <tjaalton> aha, there you go!
 [17:42:01]  * tjaalton looks for the patch
 [17:42:28]  <ajax> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/rpms/hal/devel/hal-0.5.10-set-property-direct.patch?rev=1.1
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[17:42:41]  <tjaalton> yeah, I figured it was the --direct thing :)
 [17:43:38]  <ajax> i should write the complementary patch for hal-get-property and then yell at davidz to merge them
 [17:43:57]  <tjaalton> I mailed the hal list about it in February but no-one managed to reply
 [17:44:48]  <tjaalton> about the problems I had.. it just either complained that hal was not running or something like that
 [17:45:04]  <tjaalton> anyway, looking forward to testing that myself
 [17:45:06]  <ajax> but hey, at least hal's being rewritten, so i'll get the opportunity to do it all over again later
 [17:45:15]  <tjaalton> <g>
 [17:45:30]  <airlied> ajax: you'll probably get to do it at again after that..
 [17:45:37]  <airlied> who knows..
 [17:45:37]  <daniels> ajax: wow, rhpl
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[17:46:25]  <tjaalton> DeviceKitKat
 [17:46:58]  <ajax> daniels: have you seen the callout script?  it's nice and embarassing
 [17:48:06]  <ajax> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/xorg-x11-server/devel/fedora-setup-keyboard?rev=1.1&view=auto
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[17:49:31]  <tjaalton> ajax: btw, shouldn't you be using the newer keys, input.x11_options.*?
 [17:50:02]  <tjaalton> at least config/x11-input.fdi says xkb.* are deprecated
 [17:50:15]  <ajax> oh, probably
 [17:50:35]  <ajax> i actually wrote the thing just before f9, but didn't get it landed in time
 [17:50:41]  <tjaalton> heh
 [17:52:51]  <wereHamster> what does 'mi' stand for (mi/ miext/ etc and in functions like miPictureInit etc)
 [17:53:07]  <krh^ machine independent
 [17:53:24]  <daniels> ajax: ...
 [17:53:40]  <wereHamster> krh: how's that different from dix (device independent)?
 [17:53:54]  <daniels> ajax: you should definitely have the shebang as /bin/bash, not as /bin/sh
 [17:54:03]  <krh> wereHamster: device refers to the graphics device
 [17:54:14]  <daniels+ dix/ is stuff that everyone always uses, at the absolute base.  mi/ is stuff that you almost certainly always want to use, but isn't mandatory because failure.
 [17:54:34]  <krh> it's arcane
 [17:54:41]  <daniels> tjaalton: no, input.x11_options.xkb* is bad
 [17:54:42]  <ajax> mi is mostly about rendering model
 [17:54:55]  <ajax> dix is mostly about protocol banging and object system and etc.
 [17:54:55]  <daniels> tjaalton: input.xkb.* is there because xkb can be used for the console too, and if distros want to unify keymaps, it's the only sensible way
 [17:55:14]  <tjaalton^ ok, someone should update that file then :)
 [17:55:43]  <daniels^ yeah
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[18:02:28]  <daniels> gah, just missed krh
 [18:04:56]  <wereHamster> hm. Looking at PictureInit and miPitureInit. miPictureInit calls the former which sets up the function pointers (like ps->CreateScreen etc). Then miPictureInit replaces some of these functions with noops (miCreatePicture is noop), how can that work?
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[18:08:54]  <wereHamster> ... apparently I've been staring at the screen for too long :(
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[18:09:27]  <tjaalton> whot, ajax: aren't the three recent config patches in master appropriate for 1.5 as well?
 [18:09:49]  <jcristau^ feel free to add them to the wiki page :)
 [18:09:51]  <jcristau> (i think they are)
 [18:10:00]  <tjaalton> oh, bummer.. didn't check that
 [18:12:49]  <mlankhorst> Finally found why gem fails, it seems the mtrr sanitizer/cleaner option in the kernel will make it fail.
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[18:21:38]  <tjaalton> jcristau: added :)
 [18:22:13]  <tjaalton> bag
 [18:22:15]  <tjaalton> uh
 [18:22:18]  <tjaalton> *bah
 [18:23:16]  <tjaalton> didn't notice the challenge the first time
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[19:09:42]  <kiras> hi    is this channel for people that are coding for the xorg project, people that are coding X applications or both?
 [19:09:54]  <daniels> mainly the former
 [19:10:44]  <kiras> ah    so if i have a question regarding whether something is possible/advisable to do with an X application, should i go to #xorg instead, or ask it here anyway?
 [19:12:02]  <mlankhorst> I think the question whether to ask that question here should be asked in xorg ;-)
 [19:12:20]  <kiras> :P  ok, thanks
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[20:02:22]  <KWhat_Work> is replay keyboard the only way to send events back out after a keygrab?  Can yon not send out asynced commands ?
 [20:05:01]  <KWhat_Work> or can you switch between AsyncKeyboard and SyncKeyboard keygrabs
[20:05:11]  <whot^ ReplayKeyboard is a server-internal behaviour, so yes - it's the only way
 [20:05:22]  <whot> XChangeKeyboardGrab or so
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[20:06:01]  <KWhat_Work> whot: is that XChangeKeyboardGrab ... no man page?
 [20:07:15]  <whot^ oh, XChangeActivePointerGrab, I thought there was the keyboard one too. nevermind
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[20:29:38]  <ajax> oh son of a pile of bitches
 [20:29:48]  <ajax> closing my laptop lid turns off the vga
 [20:30:18]  <ajax> who comes up with this crap anyway
 [20:30:19]  <airlied^ you may already have won..
 [20:31:20]  <ajax> i wonder if that's server bug or g-p-m novicery
 [20:31:48]  <airlied^ it could be driver also
 [20:31:52]  <airlied> I'd hope not though..
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[22:01:38]  <vignatti> jbarnes: ping
 [22:04:00]  <jbarnes^ pong
 [22:04:38]  <jbarnes> well, kinda
 [22:04:42]  <jbarnes> you can email me
 [22:04:51]  <vignatti^ one sec.
 [22:04:53]  <vignatti> here
 [22:04:56]  <vignatti> http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/gitweb?p=multiseat/vga-module.git
 [22:05:01]  <vignatti> http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/gitweb?p=multiseat/libvgaaccess.git
 [22:05:35]  <vignatti> jbarnes: and sure, please keep in mind that this code was written by two guys that never touched the kernel code before :)
 [22:06:07]  <jbarnes^ no problem, I'll be gentle :)
 [22:08:54]  <vignatti^ nice. you can see also that we don't put any effort there for months
 [22:09:04]  <vignatti> but it's kind working here
 [22:09:26]  <vignatti> jbarnes: we did a wrapper in all vga calls inside the server using the libvgaaccess, but that code is really indisgestible
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[22:16:22]  <vignatti> jbarnes: the urgent todo here is to do the arbiter "interrupt aware"
 [22:17:06]  <vignatti> this is important because we cannot reliably use interrupts if for instance MMIO decoding can be switched off by another card driver trying to get to its own legacy IOs or memory space (i think DRM does it)
 [22:17:40]  <vignatti> also, probably the library doesn't need to be visible to userspace. Maybe we can incorporate it with KMS
 [22:17:51]  <vignatti> I don't knwo. You know better than me..
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[01:47:05]  <benjsc> anyone know the fedora package providing AC_PROG_INTLTOOL macro?
 [01:50:09]  <airlied^ intltool
 [01:52:01]  <benjsc^ thx
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[03:08:26]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:45:20]  <osiris__> who is the anongit.fd.o admin?
 [05:48:22]  <daniels> hi
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[05:50:06]  <osiris__> daniels: hi. I need to checkout a git tree from anongit.fd.o through http proto (isp is blocking all other ports) and the tree I want to checkout doesn't exist there, but I can find it in gitweb.fd.o. the tree I'm talking about is users/csimpson/xf86-video-ati
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[05:58:50]  <CE> XAA is twice as fast as EXA for 20x20 solid rects on 1.5 and about 25% slower than on EXA/Xorg-1.3
 [05:59:08]  <CE> should I file a bug on this, or would that just be bothersome?
 [05:59:28]  <CE> for exa profile shows a lot of time spent in getpixmapoffset
 [06:01:52]  <wereHamster> in exaGetPixmapOffset() there is nothing expensive other then the ExaScreenPriv() (actuall that gets called twice, once in exaGetPixmapOffset and once in ExaGetPixmapAddress)
 [06:02:39]  <CE> hmm ... I did not save the profile
 [06:02:52]  <CE> will test it again and be back shortly
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[06:09:39]  <daniels> osiris__: hm
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[06:14:02]  <CE> hello again
 [06:14:19]  <CE> wow thats strange - according to sysprof 30% are spent in doMigration
 [06:15:12]  <MrCooper> region calculations?
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[06:19:17]  <CE> yes, part of that
 [06:19:39]  <daniels> osiris__: should be fixed now
 [06:20:02]  <CE> procrenderfillrects is 83%, down to exaFillRegionSolid which is only 50%
 [06:20:10]  <MrCooper^ is that with the patch I attached to one of your bug reports which tries to limit the number of valid region rects?
 [06:20:29]  <CE> its with the patch
 [06:22:01]  <CE> i wonder why it calls moveInPixmap at all
 [06:24:11]  <CE> I uploaded the source to http://pastebin.com/f3b90de0d, and the profile to http://www.uploading.com/files/L83Q3RRP/rect20.sysprof.html
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[06:28:30]  <MrCooper> CE: exaDoMigration must be called before each operation now because there are now separate valid regions for system and FB, whereas previously one of the copies was always fully valid and only the damage region was tracked between migrations
 [06:29:05]  <CE> thanks for the explanation
 [06:29:08]  <MrCooper> this is to avoid e.g. copying all of a 1280x1024 pixmap to system for a 1x10 software fallback
 [06:29:59]  <MrCooper> it can now better keep track of which bits actually need to be copied back and forth for each operation, but this comes at the cost of more region calculation overhead
 [06:30:01]  <osiris__> daniels: nope. maybe I'm trying wrong url? http://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/users/csimpson/xf86-video-ati.git? browsing http://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/users/ in web browser shows no csimpson dir.
 [06:30:37]  <CE> so ... in my case do you think it region calculation that hurts so much?
 [06:31:05]  <MrCooper> most likely, there shouldn't be any migration data copies for solid fills
 [06:34:37]  <CE> hmm, thats sad :-/
 [06:35:07]  <CE> ok, dixLookupPrivate gets 29% for this test ... nice speedup once thats fixed
 [06:36:28]  <CE> hmm, pixman_region_union all in all only gets 7%, with ~2% spent in malloc/free
 [06:39:35]  <MrCooper> yeah, with some luck it's just dixLookupPrivate :)
 [06:40:00]  <MrCooper> is the 25% slowdown compared to 1.3 with EXA or XAA?
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[06:49:46]  <daniels> osiris__: should now be accessible via http://people.freedesktop.org/~csimpson/xf86-video-ati.git
 [06:51:19]  <osiris__> danies: 403 Forbidden
 [06:52:44]  <daniels> try now?
 [06:54:06]  <osiris__^ still 403
 [06:55:22]  <daniels> argh, incompetence.  try now (directories work better at 755 than 644).
 [06:56:22]  <wereHamster> I'm also getting 403
 [06:56:58]  <osiris__> daniles: nope
 [06:57:23]  <CE> ah sorry, there is no slowdown between 1.3 and 1.5 with EXA
 [06:57:25]  <CE> mixed that up
 [06:57:48]  <CE> xaa runs the test in 90ms, exa in 160
 [07:03:36]  <daniels> osiris__: okay, works now, i tried it
 [07:04:48]  <osiris__^ thanks :)
 [07:07:22]  <CE> kcalc
 [07:07:28]  <CE> sorry ;)
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[07:15:38]  <daniels> np
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[08:54:28]  <sebner1> hi, is there a known issuse with intel gm 915 and xserver intrepid + kernel intrepid?
 [09:07:25]  <tjaalton^ wrong channel for that
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[09:12:59]  <sebner1> tjaalton: well, you are the uploader of the intel driver :P
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[09:16:15]  <tjaalton> sebner1: there you go, it's not necessarily an upstream bug :)
 [09:16:29]  <tjaalton> check the list of bugs on launchpad first
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[09:33:46]  <sebner1> tjaalton: well, my bug is not there yet. If it is a bug
 [09:34:03]  <tjaalton^ ok, what's the problem?
 [09:36:03]  <sebner1^ my sister has a laptop with hardy and intel gma 915 but because of wlan issuse I use the intrepid kernel but with it it's not booting always. sometimes it screen remains black. log says "No screens found"
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[09:36:08]  <sebner1> but also with intrepid xor
 [09:36:09]  <sebner1> g
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[09:36:52]  <tjaalton> disable usplash
 [09:36:56]  <tjaalton> kernel issue
 [09:50:37]  <wereHamster> oh man, this is mighty confusing: ProcCreateWindow()->dix/window.c:CreateWindow()->(*pScreen->CreateWindow)(); but ProcCreatePixmap()->(*pScreen->CreatePixmap)()->dix/pixmap.c:AllocatePixmap()
 [09:52:16]  <wereHamster> so pScreen->CreateWindow() merely has to initilize the already created window, while pScreen->CreatePixmap() has to allocate the pixmap (by calling AllocatePixmap)
 [09:52:59]  <sebner1> tjaalton: known?
 [09:53:02]  <ajax> and now you know why we drink.
 [09:54:52]  <tjaalton> sebner1: yes
 [09:54:54]  <wereHamster> why? So you can understand the code? And what exactly do you drink? Is it maybe Absinthe?
 [09:55:01]  <sebner1> tjaalton: cool, you saved my day :D
 [09:55:19]  <ajax> more to numb the pain than anything else
 [09:55:24]  <daniels> you are in a maze of nesting wrapper functions, all a maze of nesting wrapper functions, all a maze of nesting wrapper ... har har
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[09:55:41]  <ajax> also, don't be knockin' absinthe
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[10:07:18]  <wereHamster> It's because of the pain. I understand
 [10:11:03]  <wereHamster> can two different objects (eg. pixmap and window) share the same XID? Or do XIDs uniquely identify the object?
 [10:11:53]  <ajax> the answer is... not pleasant.
 [10:12:09]  <ajax> according to the letter of the law (meaning, the protocol spec), no, they can't.
 [10:12:43]  <ajax> internally, XIDs do occasionally alias
 [10:13:17]  <wereHamster> why does dixLookupResource() take a RESTYPE argument then?
 [10:13:22]  <ajax> primarily in the xinerama code, but other places too
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[10:14:13]  <ajax> because they alias, and therefore you have to look up "give me the object with this type and this XID"
 [10:14:31]  <ajax> typically objects within a class do not alias in any client-visible way
 [10:14:37]  <wereHamster> mh. evil.
 [10:14:48]  <ajax> so like, for drawables, you shouldn't need to worry
 [10:15:13]  <ajax> in fact just pretend i said "no they can't but specify the type anyway" ;)
 [10:15:17]  <wereHamster> what are resource classes used for?
 [10:15:44]  <ajax> like classes.  pixmaps and windows are both drawables.
 [10:15:58]  <ajax> drawable class, pixmap type.
 [10:17:12]  <ajax> XCopyArea, for example, doesn't care what kind of drawable you give it, just that you give it a drawable.
 [10:17:23]  <ajax> it'd be silly to have XCopyAreaWindowToPixmap
 [10:17:52]  <ajax> bbiab
 [10:17:57]  <wereHamster> thanks
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[11:22:28]  <CosmicPenguin> in crtc->mode_set, what is the difference between mode and adjusted_mode?
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[11:32:13]  <tilman> CosmicPenguin: the latter might be the one that you modified in your mode_fixup callback. but it's been a while since i've dealt with that ;p
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[11:36:16]  <CosmicPenguin> okay - I can investigate
 [11:36:20]  * CosmicPenguin is behind the times
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[11:41:48]  <tjaalton> hm, shouldn't the kb model be forced to evdev when i-h is used?
 [11:45:36]  <daniels^ it is
 [11:45:48]  <daniels> well, the xkb model is forced to evdev by the evdev driver
 [11:46:10]  <daniels> gnome, however, wants to compile keymaps on the client side and then send them to the server
 [11:46:22]  <tjaalton> yes, that's what I'm seeing..
 [11:46:30]  <daniels> right
 [11:46:36]  <tjaalton> and the fedora patches don't seem to help :)
 [11:46:49]  <tjaalton> whot: ^^
 [11:46:55]  <daniels> yeah, xkb needs fixing there
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[12:47:57]  <KWhat_Work> So there is absolutely no way to get keyreleased events and forward the key strokes with xgrabkey
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[12:49:46]  <tjaalton> uh, no keyboard after suspend or hibernate
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[13:28:28]  <wereHamster> does the xserver support any platforms that don't have 'void *' available?
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[13:28:55]  <daniels> no.
 [13:29:23]  <wereHamster> you've been mocking about glib redefining everything and yet xserver uses 'typedef void *pointer;' ;)
 [13:29:47]  <ajax> that's legitimate prehistory
 [13:29:48]  <wereHamster> so it would be ok to s/pointer/void */g ?
 [13:30:11]  <ajax> X strictly predates c89.  glib, however.
 [13:30:27]  <daniels> yeah, x predates void *; the only sensible generic pointer was char *.
 [13:30:28]  <ajax+ we've been writing void * in new code for the most part
 [13:30:39]  <ajax> or at least, i have
 [13:30:45]  <daniels> me too
 [13:31:04]  <wereHamster> also, I've seen a lot useless casts (return value from xalloc and frieds)
 [13:31:14]  <daniels> see above.  char *.
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[13:31:37]  <ajax> i've been deleting those too though
 [13:32:08]  <wereHamster> what is the reason for the xalloc #define?
 [13:32:19]  <ajax> historically the system malloc was terrible
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[13:32:57]  <ajax> and things like malloc tracers couldn't hook in at the symbol resolution level so you have to enable them yourself by wrapping malloc
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[13:33:40]  <wereHamster> ah, so you removed your own memory manager implementation and replaced xalloc() with a define to Xalloc() to avoid modifying all the code that used xalloc()?
 [13:34:03]  <ajax> and there was some fault-injection code that would generate random malloc failures _unless_ you used the xnfalloc() variants to say "no really, this can't fail".  which, ick,
 [13:34:15]  <ajax> oh the #defines are just madness
 [13:34:24]  <ajax> there's no good reason for them, they just are.
 [13:34:42]  <daniels^ don't forget Must_have_memory.
 [13:34:53]  <ajax> srsly
 [13:35:02]  <daniels^ also, xnfalloc doesn't avoid MEMBUG failing.  it FatalErrors on NULL.
 [13:35:10]  <daniels> and M_h_m is just xnfalloc, really.
 [13:35:16]  <ajax> ah, right
 [13:35:45]  <ajax> the best part is how much of the code does foo = xnfalloc(32); if (!foo) return NULL;
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[13:36:52]  <daniels> ajax: ...
 [13:36:58]  <daniels> seriously?
 [13:37:42]  <ajax> it's not common, but it does exist
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[14:04:40]  <wereHamster> ajax: how long have you been working on X? Since the very begining?
 [14:04:46]  <ajax> heavens no.
 [14:05:20]  <ajax> i was about five years old when X11 released
 [14:05:28]  <cjb> wereHamster: how old do you think {he,X} is?  :)
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[14:05:53]  <ajax> i started poking at it in like march of '04 as a way of avoiding studying for finals
 [14:07:01]  <wereHamster> I know X started around 1983, with X11 released around 1989?
 [14:07:20]  <ajax> '87
 [14:08:26]  <ajax> no, i just sound like a historian because i believe in learning from the past rather than repeating it
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[14:09:21]  <daniels> a bold and dangerous line of thinking
 [14:10:11]  <ajax> i'm a bold and dangerous kind of guy
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[14:11:52]  <daniels> tequila all round
 [14:12:18]  <ajax> certainly not afraid of the vax right now
 [14:12:59]  <daniels> middle-endian vigilante squad
 [14:14:31]  <wereHamster> is it ok to use libc functions (string.h etc) or does the xserver provide wrappers for those?
 [14:14:45]  <ajax> it's okay
 [14:14:57]  <ajax> we used to have wrappers but we deleted them because they were a stupid idea
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[14:18:44]  <rothwell> if i'm using a program that grabs the mouse and it crashes, i can't get the mouse back until X is forcibly restarted. is there any way to stop this problem from occuring?
 [14:19:09]  <wereHamster> fix the program to not crash ;)
 [14:19:25]  <rothwell> heh, that's one solution, yes
 [14:19:37]  <daniels> er, if the program crashes rather than hangs, you should be fine
 [14:19:37]  <ajax> i'm a bit concerned that that happens at all
 [14:19:49]  <ajax> we're supposed to release all grabs on client death
 [14:20:02]  <daniels> (and do)
 [14:20:15]  <rothwell> i've seen it happen in many programs, in many different versions of xorg
 [14:20:15]  <daniels> might be remaining dga failure, but that codepath at least looked okay
 [14:20:22]  <rothwell> not sure what's causing them to be kept
 [14:20:33]  <rothwell> let me get version numbers...
 [14:20:46]  <daniels> a way to reproduce would be nice.
 [14:20:52]  <rothwell> will do
 [14:21:37]  * daniels splutters at phoronix.
 [14:21:40]  <daniels> 'The design of DRI2, or the Direct Rendering Infrastructure 2, was a modest improvement over DRI'
 [14:22:02]  <rothwell> ok, well the most recent method i've used to get this to happen:
 [14:22:10]  <rothwell> X.Org X Server 1.4.0.90, prboom 2.4.7 on ubuntu
 [14:22:22]  <rothwell> prboom has a hanging bug that results in the process having to be killed
 [14:22:41]  <rothwell> usually i switch to the console to do this as there's no other way to get the mouse
 [14:22:47]  <ajax> prboom probably using dga input.
 [14:22:51]  <rothwell> when i get back into X from the console, the mouse is frozen
 [14:22:54]  <ajax> i really really loathe dga's input code
 [14:23:06]  <daniels> yeah, dga ftl.
 [14:23:19]  <daniels> (sorry.)
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[14:23:33]  <rothwell> i believe it's using whatever SDL uses
 [14:23:47]  <ajax> SDL typically uses DGA
 [14:23:48]  <daniels> which is dga, yeah
 [14:23:57]  <rothwell> ugh
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[14:24:28]  <ddeath> Hi
 [14:24:57]  <ddeath> What mean's do_not_propate_mask in XWindowAttributes
 [14:27:28]  <ajax> it's the set of events that, if no client has selected for that event on the window, should not be propagated to the window's parents.
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[14:30:00]  <ajax> daniels: the weird thing is, dga2 does have a hook for ClientStateChange.  it really should be cleaning up for clients, which just makes its failure to do so more confusing.
 [14:30:01]  <rothwell> so, is the solution in my case 'fix dga'?
 [14:30:46]  <rothwell> i mean, i'll try, if that's what's necessary
 [14:30:48]  <ddeath> Can I redirect some events from child to parent?
 [14:31:08]  <ddeath> Or catch them?
 [14:32:00]  <ajax> you can select for input on any window you like, yes.
 [14:32:29]  <ddeath> By XSelectInput?
 [14:32:36]  <ddeath> On the child Window??
 [14:33:04]  <ajax> that's how you select for input, yes.
 [14:33:28]  <ddeath> If I use XSelectInput(dpy,child,NoEventMask) then all events will be received by parent?
 [14:33:49]  <daniels^ i'm not sure why you would do that
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[14:34:19]  <ddeath> I would to prevent wine apps should receive some x message
 [14:34:21]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, that's what i was saying, it appears to roughly work correctly
 [14:34:24]  <daniels> rothwell: yes
 [14:34:28]  <ddeath> Shouldn't
 [14:34:41]  <daniels^ i'd really recommend hacking wine
 [14:34:44]  <ajax> you can't prevent an app from receiving an event.
 [14:34:47]  <TC-Rucho> hello, I am looking for a simple way to get the mouse pointer's coordinates. A shell command would be good enough, but if there's none, just tell me the lib I have to use in order to get that data. Thanks :)
 [14:34:55]  <ddeath> Yes, I know.
 [14:35:00]  <ddeath> But I'm simple man
 [14:35:13]  <ddeath> And this way is most funny ;-)
 [14:35:24]  <daniels> ...
 [14:35:25]  <ddeath> XQueryPointer
 [14:35:26]  <wereHamster> haking wine is simpler then doing it through X
 [14:35:49]  <TC-Rucho> ddeath: what lib is that function in?
 [14:36:02]  <ddeath> I truing to use hookwindowsex
 [14:36:10]  <ajax> TC-Rucho: it's in libX11.
 [14:36:12]  <ddeath> tying, but ir don't working
 [14:36:14]  <ddeath> Sorry.
 [14:36:37]  <ddeath> Ok. Thanks.
 [14:36:46]  <rothwell> daniels: ok
 [14:36:49]  <rothwell> thanks
 [14:36:55]  <rothwell> glad i got that worked out, at least
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[14:39:01]  <ddeath> It's Win32 function
 [14:39:07]  <ddeath> XQueryPoiter?
 [14:39:15]  <ddeath> XQueryPointer?
 [14:39:36]  <ddeath> It's xlib function
 [14:41:29]  <ajax> hmm.
 [14:42:11]  <ajax> okay, yeah, i see what the dga bug is
 [14:44:40]  <ajax> or i think i do anyway
 [14:44:51]  <daniels> do tell
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[15:00:44]  <ajax> i have to believe that the if (client && ...) part of DGA-CSC never gets called
 [15:01:09]  <ajax> because when i've seen this happen before, the failure mode is such that the video mode doesn't reset either
 [15:01:17]  <rothwell> yeah, that can happen
 [15:01:20]  <jg> ajax: wonderful; mail to sitewranglers@fdo gets held for moderation....
 [15:01:28]  <rothwell> got stuck in a 320x240 desktop once
 [15:01:30]  <rothwell> impressive!
 [15:04:15]  <ajax> yeah, it'll do that
 [15:05:24]  <jg> ping keithp
 [15:05:45]  <keithp> what's up, jg?
 [15:06:05]  <ajax> i just flushed the mod queue for sitewranglers
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[15:21:56]  <ajax> no, i'm defeated
 [15:22:23]  <ajax> i don't see the bug just from a readthrough, i'd need to actually trigger it to figure out what was going on.
 [15:22:42]  <ajax> simple enough though.  breakpoint on DGAClientStateChange would be the right place to start looking.
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[15:25:14]  <ajax> daniels: can we have less xf86Xinput.c please?
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[15:33:29]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, should be collapsed into the dix
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[15:53:17]  <ajax> i'm concerned about the circumstances under which XGetVisualInfo can give me back two identical visuals.
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[15:55:05]  <ajax> let me rephrase that
 [15:55:16]  <ajax> i'm concerned that circumstance exists
 [16:03:22]  <ajax> yeah, Xephyr visual setup is clearly boned.
 [16:03:53]  <ajax> % DISPLAY=:7 xdpyinfo | grep visual.id | uniq -c | grep ' 2'
 [16:03:53]  <ajax>       2     visual id:    0x21
 [16:06:22]  <papillon81> there is a bug in Mesa drm, making it not compile on ppc64 with 32 bit UL: cc1: error: -m64 not supported in this configuration
 [16:06:37]  <papillon81> it choses the wrong compiler (that for the UL)
 [16:06:41]  <keithp> ajax: that's allowed by the core protocol...
 [16:07:06]  <keithp> although, if it lists the same visual for the same depth and screen, that's wrong
 [16:07:47]  <jcristau^ it does
 [16:07:48]  <ajax> Value returned is $1 = (XVisualInfo *) 0x934a8f0
 [16:07:48]  <ajax> (gdb) print *$1
 [16:07:48]  <ajax> $2 = {visual = 0x934a1f8, visualid = 33, screen = 0, depth = 24, class = 4,
[16:07:50]  <ajax> ...
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[16:08:12]  <ajax> (gdb) print *($1 + 1)
 [16:08:12]  <ajax> $4 = {visual = 0x934a1f8, visualid = 33, screen = 0, depth = 24, class = 4,
[16:08:30]  <ajax> that's from x11perf's XGetVisualInfo call
 [16:09:01]  <keithp^ bonged
 [16:09:16]  <halfline> isn't that expected since different visuals might have various gl features associated with them? i thought krh mentioned that at some point
 [16:09:32]  <ajax> halfline: 'different' visuals have different VIDs
 [16:09:56]  <halfline> oh right
 [16:09:59]  <ajax> two visuals can have the same core properties but different GLX properties iff they have different VIDs
 [16:10:08]  <ajax> (or are on different screens)
 [16:10:21]  <ajax> (but no one likes screens, so pretend i didn't mention that)
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[16:10:59]  <ajax> keithp: seriously considering reviving pseudoroot to satisfy the zaphod-mode wackos
 [16:11:26]  <keithp^ \o/
 [16:11:50]  <imaginator> Hi.  I'm trying to get a definitive answer on whether or not XAllocID() can run out of ids these days.  Does it make any attempt to reuse XIDs over a period of time?
 [16:12:05]  <keithp^ xlib manages reuse automatically
 [16:12:16]  <ajax+ if you have the XC-MISC extension on your server (and you do) then they get reused internally, yes.
 [16:12:46]  <ajax> you can still run out, but that requires actually consuming all of the XID space
 [16:13:25]  <imaginator> ok, so an application that runs a long time will no longer need to reuse XIDs or replace the core dpy->resource_alloc?
 [16:13:37]  <keithp^ right
 [16:14:27]  <imaginator> ok, good to know.  So it seems we can put this code to rest in Tk: http://tktoolkit.cvs.sourceforge.net/tktoolkit/tk/unix/tkUnixXId.c?revision=1.11&view=markup
 [16:14:56]  <ajax> oh my.
 [16:15:07]  <imaginator^
[16:15:07]  <ajax> yes, please do
 [16:15:10]  <keithp> imaginator: uh, yeah, since like 1993
 [16:15:14]  <ajax> i just didn't know tk did that
 [16:16:24]  <imaginator> How does the XC-MISC extension do this, and how common is the XC-MISC extension?
 [16:16:39]  <dberkholz> agd5f: get any reports on that rs4xx yet? we've got an rs480 we need dualscreen on
 [16:16:49]  <ajax> it asks the server for a list of unused IDs
 [16:16:56]  <keithp> imaginator: it's been around in every X server for 15 years
 [16:17:06]  <imaginator> thank you :)
 [16:17:14]  <imaginator> Now I think I have suitable justification to nuke this code.
 [16:17:31]  <agd5f> dberkholz: not yet
 [16:18:08]  <dberkholz^ ok, i'll probably get it tested by the end of the week if nobody else gets to it. there's this funky dualhead single-touchscreen setup, and we were about to pick up a new card for it.
 [16:20:43]  <agd5f^ sounds good let me know how it goes.  I'm curious to see if it works :)
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[16:28:29]  <imaginator> There's a Tk bug that X.org introduced recently, because Tk was doing some things it shouldn't have.  When the LASTEvent was bumped for the GenericEvent it broke Tk's virtual events.
 [16:31:39]  <imaginator> This code fails now with the addition of the GenericEvent http://tktoolkit.cvs.sourceforge.net/tktoolkit/tk/generic/tkBind.c?view=markup    It fails because the LASTEvent shift caused problems with Tk's usage of virtual events.   http://tktoolkit.cvs.sourceforge.net/tktoolkit/tk/generic/tk.h?revision=1.113&view=markup   (on line 630)
 [16:32:34]  <ajax> ouch.
 [16:32:40]  <imaginator> This has the full description of the bug: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2010422&group_id=12997&atid=112997   We're not sure how to proceed best in fixing this. 
[16:32:57]  <imaginator> Ideally I would like to create a Tk_Event struct that contains extra metadata for virtual events that Tk uses.
 [16:33:27]  <imaginator> But that breaks binary compatibility, introduces API changes, and Tcl and Tk are very conservative about breaking things.
 [16:33:58]  <imaginator> Any advise on better ways to do things are welcome.
 [16:34:03]  <imaginator> advice*
 [16:38:37]  <ajax> start the virtual tk events at 63 and number down towards the core events?
 [16:38:55]  <ajax> it's still an abi break if anything's using the numeric value of the virtual events
 [16:39:20]  <ajax> but at least that way you put off further collisions as long as possible. pretty sure the X extension event space starts at 64.
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[16:40:10]  <imaginator> ajax: are there any plans for X12 that would complicate matters if we use that solution?
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[16:40:21]  <imaginator> or further X11 changes
 [16:40:32]  <drago01> oh one guy is still using XFree 3.3.6 because "S3 support is much better than in newer xfree versions and xorg"
 [16:40:39]  <ajax> imaginator: X12 is almost certainly going to use uint32 for the event number namespace
 [16:40:46]  <ajax> because, really, why screw around
 [16:40:57]  <imaginator> ok
 [16:41:20]  <ajax> drago01: anyone who seriously cares about ancient S3 support has my pity
 [16:41:58]  <drago01^ yeah first thing I thought "omg ancient hw"
 [16:42:22]  <imaginator+ thank you.  I'll share this information with the other Tk developers.
 [16:42:24]  <ajax^ let me double check the event numbering thing though
 [16:42:29]  <imaginator> ok
 [16:43:10]  <ajax> #define EXTENSION_EVENT_BASE  64
 [16:43:22]  <ajax> man, it's awesome when you're right.
 [16:43:25]  <imaginator> ok, thank you
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[17:28:20]  <ajax> hmm.  Xephyr -nodri doesn't give me the duplicate visual
 [17:28:34]  <ajax> that's plasant
 [17:28:41]  <ajax> pleasant, even
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[17:30:41]  <jcristau> Dodji said something about duplicating visuals in #16955
 [17:31:40]  <ajax> nughhhh
 [17:33:11]  <ajax> yeah, okay.  i see what he's doing.
 [17:34:59]  <ajax> i'll just turn dri off for a while then.
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[18:28:08]  <blauzahl> peek-a-boo.... pinging aaronp?
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[18:28:58]  <blauzahl> aaronp: i am told to give you this:  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167919
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[18:40:29]  <wereHamster> the macro LEGAL_NEW_RESOURCE() (used for example in ProcCreateWindow) uses LegalNewID() which calls LookupIDByClass() which is marked as deprecated and should print a warning when used. But I don't see the warning in any of my logs. What am I missing?
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[19:19:35]  <ajax> mmm.  XResQueryClientResources could be more useful, one suspects.
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[19:26:17]  <ajax> wow.  something like 80 resource types beyond the base set
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[20:07:48]  <whot> tjaalton: the patches work (mostly) fine here, what's the problem?
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----- [2008-08-06] -----
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[00:15:19]  <DrNick> would it be possible for bugs.freedesktop.org to get a "real" SSL cert from StartSSL?
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[00:25:34]  <ds> it's from cacert, which you can add to your browser
 [00:26:07]  <DrNick> the CA cert for the free StartSSL certs already came with my browser
 [00:26:49]  <DrNick> but, hey, if you guys insist on using the free certs from the unsupported CA instead of the free certs from the supported CA, I can live with that
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[01:07:29]  <tjaalton> whot: you can still change the keymap from gnome, and things break..
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[01:09:47]  <whot> tjaalton: what layout?
 [01:11:30]  <tjaalton^ fi
 [01:12:31]  <tjaalton> s/keymap/model/
 [01:13:00]  <whot^ oh - you're changing the model? that's not a good idea
 [01:13:20]  <tjaalton> I know :)
 [01:13:36]  <tjaalton> maybe that should be forced in gnome (as evdev)?
 [01:14:20]  <whot^ you must have evdev-managed keyboard in gnome. the recent patches allow layout switching, not model
 [01:14:34]  <tjaalton> right, my mistake
 [01:15:19]  <whot^ prohibiting model switches in X is not good.
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[01:16:45]  <tjaalton> btw, defaulting to AllowEmptyInput breaks things when hal is not running/desired (LTSP..) and there's no xorg.conf. so, what drawbacks (if any) are there if the server loads both mouse/kbd and evdev?
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[01:18:15]  <whot> tjaalton: dead devices. not really a drawback, but leads to confusion
 [01:18:34]  <tjaalton^ in users or the xserver?-)
 [01:18:53]  <whot^ users. I closed a wad of reports relating to that
 [01:19:06]  <tjaalton> hmm, it would be possible to set that option back on in an fdi file..
 [01:20:07]  <whot> it's a server flag - not part of the fdi
 [01:20:36]  <tjaalton> duh
 [01:21:48]  <whot^ I don't quite understand the issue though. AEI is on if we rely on hal. Otherwise it's off anyway
 [01:22:46]  <tjaalton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255133
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[01:23:41]  <tjaalton> at least he claimed on irc that there was no xorg.conf :)
 [01:24:19]  <whot^ so he wants the server to autoconfigure everything, but without running the daemon that provides the information that the server can autoconfigure?
 [01:24:44]  <whot> I think there's a tiny flaw in the reasoning
 [01:25:22]  <tjaalton> running without xorg.conf worked before..
 [01:25:28]  <tjaalton> with or without hal
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[01:27:46]  <whot> tjaalton: yeah, because we always added two devices for which the kernel did all the hotplugging.
 [01:28:09]  <whot> which means you always had two mute devices - default pointer and default keyboard
 [01:28:26]  <whot> only if hal was broken/not working, these devices actually did anything
 [01:28:42]  <tjaalton^ ok..
 [01:44:06]  <Lerc> I think I just reached my sugar breaking point.
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[02:15:08]  <daniels> DrNick: debian ships the cacert ca, if you are unhappy with your distro/whatever not doing so, please complain to them
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[02:54:38]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:52:41]  <MrCooper> keithp: how does EXA force pixel organization on the driver? I don't see anything in UXA that couldn't be done with EXA...
 [03:53:28]  <MrCooper> the migration code is already inactive when the driver manages pixmap allocation
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[04:06:45]  <aaronp> blauzahl: What the??  There's no way kio_fish and the NVIDIA driver have anything to do with each other...
 [04:06:56]  <aaronp> and if they do, then it must be a really cool bug.  :)
 [04:07:46]  <blauzahl^ indeed.
[04:07:48]  <aaronp> I'll need more information, though, like an nvidia-bug-report.log and a description of how exactly it's failing.
 [04:08:02]  <blauzahl^ it won our WTF bug report of the week award
 [04:08:35]  <blauzahl> if you don't have an account on there, write me up something and i'll put it in
 [04:08:45]  * blauzahl has no clue how to get an nvidia-bug-report.log
 [04:08:53]  <blauzahl> although it looks like fredrikh reappeared....
[04:08:54]  <aaronp> Run nvidia-bug-report.sh
 [04:09:12]  <aaronp> Also, please have the reporter email linux-bugs@nvidia.com with the relevant information.
 [04:09:40]  <blauzahl> how much more of a description of "how it's failing" can you give?
[04:09:44]  * blauzahl looks at the report again
 [04:10:10]  <aaronp> exactly what error message, if any, kio_fish is producing.
 [04:10:27]  <blauzahl> ah, ok
 [04:10:34]  <blauzahl> anything else?
[04:11:00]  <aaronp> No, the bug report should cover everything else, at least to start with.
 [04:11:17]  <blauzahl> ok. thanks! i am really curious about this one, i have to admit.
 [04:13:05]  <aaronp> Also, how the heck do I launch a kioslave in gdb??
 [04:13:41]  <blauzahl> there's a techbase page on debugging kio
 [04:14:51]  <blauzahl> http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Debugging/Debugging_IOSlaves look good?
 [04:15:29]  <aaronp> Ah, nice.
 [04:16:50]  <aaronp> Awesome, it even works in an already-running session
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[04:31:08]  <ssp> sd
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[06:22:20]  <marcheu> MrCooper: yeah I don't understand either, it seems like the pixmap allocation code already does just the same
 [06:32:09]  <MrCooper> also, for synchronization, you can just make the WaitMarker hook a nop and handle it in the PrepareAccess hook as well
 [06:32:47]  <marcheu> yeah, that is why I'm saying exa can do the same
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[06:44:06]  <_Andrey_> i upgrade xf86-input-keyboard to 1.3.1, but now not all buttons work correctly. moreover i can't switch to console (alt+ctrl+f1). why?
 [06:44:21]  <_Andrey_> i use xorg-x11 7.2 and xorg-server 1.4.2
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[08:38:47]  <marcheu> what would be needed to kill backing store ?
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[09:13:39]  <Trollinator> Is Glucose still being developed? The last news i heard about it were from 2006
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[09:45:24]  <MrCooper> marcheu: it was disabled by default until ajax reimplemented it on top of composite
 [09:45:43]  <ajax> it's still disabled by default.  or, ought to be.
 [09:45:50]  <marcheu> doesn't look like it
 [09:46:29]  <ajax> let's define "disabled" here.
 [09:47:01]  <ajax> "disabled" means "you can ask for backing store, but windows are not created with it on by default"
 [09:47:39]  <ajax> which i'm completely sure is true, since if it wasn't, i wouldn't still see garbage when i sigstop a terminal and drag another window over it.
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[09:50:26]  <marcheu> ah ok, I was wondering about that "disabled" thing
 [09:50:55]  <marcheu> I'm currently hunting backing store out of mplayer :)
 [09:51:09]  <ajax> man, i have no idea what they're using it for
 [09:51:18]  <MrCooper^ but previously clients wouldn't get it even if they asked for it without Option "BackingStore", right?
 [09:51:21]  <marcheu> neither do I, they seem open to remove it even :)
 [09:51:25]  <ajax> but i'm told it breaks their vsync code?
 [09:51:41]  <marcheu^ hmm ? can you enlighten me ?
 [09:52:06]  <ajax> MrCooper: i don't believe that to be correct
 [09:52:19]  <ajax> but, "believe".  i've been wrong before.
 [09:53:02]  <MrCooper^ I could easily be wrong as well, but I thought people had to enable that option for xboing's silly 'special effect' to work
 [09:53:18]  <ajax> marcheu: i just remember getting a bug at some point about how after the backing store rewrite mplayer's sync to vblank no longer did what they wanted.
 [09:53:32]  <ajax> MrCooper: oh, i see what you're saying.  yeah, that i think is true.
 [09:54:02]  <ajax> honestly it's probably a better idea to just rip out bs and saveunder support altogether
 [09:54:28]  <marcheu> well if I succeed in killing it from mplayer I'll be happy already
 [09:56:25]  <MrCooper> ajax: it can cause vsync trouble with textured video because the XvPutImage goes to the redirected window pixmap instead of the screen pixmap
 [09:57:40]  <ajax> hmm.
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[10:04:59]  <marcheu> MrCooper: that's also why I want the flag removed, redirection means 1. no overlay 2. slower 3. no vsync
 [10:05:16]  <marcheu> anyway they seem open to it, I'll send a patch tomorrow
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[10:11:34]  <ajax> do any of the open drivers manage to sync the overlay to vblank anyway?
 [10:12:41]  <Q-FUNK> hm.. seems that today is my 10th year in HEL.
 [10:13:42]  <MrCooper^ I think you dropped an L there ;)
 [10:14:01]  <Q-FUNK^ yes and no ;)
 [10:14:35]  <MrCooper> ajax: yeah, any decent overlay does that
 [10:15:22]  <MrCooper> when the XV_DOUBLE_BUFFER attribute is enabled
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[10:20:12]  <marcheu> ajax: nouveau does
 [10:26:42]  <ajax> ah, right.  forgot that part.
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[10:38:31]  <math_b> Hi, in latest git, server is killed by first keypress with Layout=fr and Variant=oss. I have all the glorious details in a gdb full backtrace : http://pastebin.com/m466249b7
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[10:40:49]  <math_b> if (dst->server->acts)  tmp = xrealloc(dst->server->acts,... yet backtrace says dst->server->acts is NULL, I fail to se how is that possible.
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[12:07:09]  <CosmicPenguin> now, if I can just figure out why I ended up with a 1600x1600 virtual window for a 1600x1200 mode
 [12:07:20]  <marcheu> rotation
 [12:09:40]  <daniels> math_b: if you could break on XkbCopyKeymap and print *src and *dst (should ideally be enormous), that'd be a huge help
 [12:12:28]  <math_b^ thanks, I've figured out I'd have to do something like that...
 [12:14:06]  <CosmicPenguin> marcheu: right - its fine to allocate a 1600x16000 visible space, but I don't want the actual virtual window to be that size
 [12:14:21]  <CosmicPenguin> I want it to match the mode
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[12:23:46]  <keithp> MrCooper: the pixmap allocation callback has the stride pre-computed, you get only a size
 [12:24:06]  <keithp> but, yes, I am hoping to merge uxa and exa as I said; there's not that much difference
 [12:24:22]  <MrCooper^ you don't need to allocate memory until the ModifyPixmapHeader hook
 [12:24:26]  * keithp doesn't want another acceleration architecture in the X server
 [12:25:01]  <MrCooper^ I agree the interfaces of those hooks aren't perfect...
 [12:25:04]  <keithp^ no, you get a info->CreatePixmap callback to allocate the memory
 [12:25:11]  <keithp> which provides only a size
 [12:25:28]  <keithp> and the ModifyPixmapHeader gets the pre-computed paddedWidth
 [12:25:34]  <MrCooper^ and you get a ModifyPixmapHeader hook call right after that
 [12:26:48]  <ajax> but he can't allocate before knowing the dimensions he needs.
 [12:26:52]  <ajax> and MPH can't fail.
 [12:27:13]  <ajax> (aiui)
 [12:27:44]  <keithp> MrCooper: which isn't error checked...
 [12:28:02]  <keithp> I think it will be easy enough to fix, but not without an ABI bump
 [12:28:17]  <keithp> The other big thing is that the damage tracking is unconditional
 [12:28:33]  <keithp> which is a huge waste of time when you don't have any migration going on
 [12:28:37]  <MrCooper> that's certainly not true
 [12:28:46]  <keithp> ?
 [12:28:51]  <MrCooper> the migration code is completely inactive when the driver handles pixmap allocation
 [12:29:06]  <keithp> Yes, the migration is inactive, but the damage tracking is not
 [12:29:30]  <keithp> Check the bottom of exaCreatePixmap
 [12:29:33]  <MrCooper> that's a bug then, which should be easy to fix
 [12:29:41]  <keithp> yes, it should be
 [12:29:58]  <keithp> Did I mention I was interested in getting rid of uxa as quickly as possible?
 [12:30:52]  <keithp> I would like to fix exa as cleanly as I can though, and I think that would be best done by making a uxa-ish layer inside it, and then putting the pixmap management on top of that
 [12:31:02]  <keithp> Having them mixed together is fairly ugly
 [12:31:15]  <keithp> You'll find additional damage tracking fun spread through the rendering code in exa
 [12:31:33]  <keithp> I'm not quite sure why it's all necessary, but uxa doesn't need it.
  
----- Log file opened 2008-08-06T12:34 -----
[12:34:38]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo.
[12:34:38]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[12:34:38]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp adamw agd5f aggelos_ ahelon ahf airlied ajax anderco anholt antrik arekm b0le Battousai bbyer benjsc bernie bgoglin blauzahl bryce caro[vtorri] cbrake chainsawbike cjb coling CosmicPenguin CP|home crossbuilder ctyler cworth dagb daniels dante darktama davej dberkholz Dodji Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds Duke` dwmw2 eboettcher egbert emmes erikg fijnman fredrikh glisse gmansi gordonjin GuentherB gustaf1 hachi halfline hbbs Herman hw_ Ingmar jbarnes jcristau jg jwelsh keithp kem krh KWhat_Work leio Lerc libv londo MacSlow malc0 malouin marcheu marvil07 math_b mattst88 Mercury mjg59 mmc mps MrCooper mvo ndim nonix4_ onestone Ori_B osiris__ otavio pachi PauloZanoni pcpa pedroerp_ pete__c psyquark RaoulDuke ribbits rnoland rothwell rvalles sebas solarion soren sputnik66 svu sxpert sx|lappy t4bz tango_ TBBle tcoppi teuf tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker wereHamster whot wlmttobks wptbkgrn z3ro_ Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[12:40:25]  <MrCooper> k
 [12:41:04]  <MrCooper> FWIW though, I think in the worst case you can just malloc the pixmap memory in MPH and have a pixmap that can't be used by the GPU; surely that's better than BadAlloc
 [12:42:00]  <MrCooper> also IINM these interfaces were created by airlied for the intel-batchbuffer branch...
 [12:46:14]  <keithp^ MPH cannot fail
 [12:46:46]  <dberkholz> ajax, jcristau, anyone else who cares about packaging: what do you think about drivers installing .pc files saying the abi they're built with, so it's easier to check for conflicts between driver & server?
 [12:47:03]  <keithp> in any case, there's no reason to think that malloc would succeed where gem object creation failed
 [12:47:33]  <keithp> MrCooper: we just need to eliminate exaCreatePixmap and exa's pixmap privates for drivers not doing migration
 [12:47:56]  <ajax> dberkholz: i wouldn't use them.  my original plan was to have the server report that ABI, and then the driver package would Require: on the ABI it was built against.
 [12:48:21]  <ajax> but i didn't do that because it's egregiously difficult to do programmatic Requires in rpm.
 [12:48:24]  <ajax> thanks jbj!
 [12:48:54]  <ajax> (and have the server Provide the same, of course)
 [12:48:54]  <jcristau> same here
 [12:49:25]  <dberkholz> we've got the server reporting the abi now, which is sort of useful if you can track the version inside your package across upgrades
 [12:50:05]  <dberkholz> is that possible for you guys already?
 [12:50:38]  <ajax> like i said.  there's no easy way to do Provides: %(pkg-config --variable xorg-ansic-version) in rpm, because it evaluates at the wrong time
 [12:51:09]  <ajax> at specfile parse rather than after the files have been added to the package
 [12:51:19]  <ajax> there's a way to do it, i just haven't been arsed to care yet
 [12:51:29]  <ajax> so yeah, it's possible, i just don't yet.
 [12:51:43]  <dberkholz> ok, then no point in doing this
 [12:52:43]  <wereHamster> what does UXA stand for?
 [12:54:08]  <osiris__> uma acceleration architecture
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[13:00:15]  <jcristau> dberkholz: i have the Provides in the driver, and the server depends on that (and conflicts against older ones), which is backwards, but. i also maintain that stuff by hand which is suboptimal but fixable.
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[13:19:50]  <math_b_> About this XkbCopyKeymap crash : I'm steping in gdb right now, and I think the stack got smashed or something like that
 [13:22:40]  <math_b_> Xrealloc is called with a correct (non null) arg, but just after the step into libc's realloc, I get a SIGSEGV and backtrace shows that Xrealloc was called with null arg ... which is not true
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[13:25:13]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: some time ago, we had been discussing OLPCs obsession with scaling smaller modes to fit the LCD
 [13:26:09]  <CosmicPenguin> I thought that you had said that we might be able to use the --fb option in xrandr to pull it off, but randr seems pretty insistant that the fb size be >= the mode size
 [13:26:17]  <ajax> this sounds familiar.  like the ache from an old wound.
 [13:26:36]  <CosmicPenguin> I must have mis-understood what you were trying tosay
 [13:26:40]  <ajax> i don't recall saying that.
 [13:26:49]  <CosmicPenguin> I also need to smoke less crack, apparently
 [13:28:05]  <ajax> so, the way the radeon driver does it is by having an output property for the scaler
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[13:28:33]  * CosmicPenguin cds over to the code
 [13:29:04]  <ajax> which you can twiddle by saying xrandr --output LVDS --set scaler [full|aspect|off] (or similar, possibly not the right value strings)
 [13:31:24]  <ajax> so if you wanted 800x600 scaled up, you'd do --set scaler full --mode 800x600
 [13:32:15]  <agd5f> full|center|off
 [13:32:21]  <agd5f> aspect would be doable as well
 [13:32:40]  <CosmicPenguin> Okay - so do I have to dummy up a 800x600 mode for randr, or can you specify any arbitrary value?
 [13:33:41]  <ajax> the user can gin one up if they like with --addmode
 [13:33:45]  <ajax> and --newmode
 [13:33:54]  <ajax> (one to specify the mode, one to add it to an output's list)
 [13:34:00]  <CosmicPenguin> with nonsense for the timings
 [13:34:24]  <CosmicPenguin> okay - I can get behind that
 [13:34:28]  <ajax> alternatively, the server will give you a huge pile of stock modes during mode validation; just accept anything smaller than the panel size (down to the limit of your scaler)
 [13:34:41]  <CosmicPenguin> hmm - that would probably work too
 [13:35:31]  <CosmicPenguin> it will give me the stock modes even if I return the mode for the panel in output->get_modes ?
 [13:37:20]  <ajax> yep.  see xf86GetOutputModes() for the gories.
 [13:37:32]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [13:38:19]  <CosmicPenguin> one last question - it seems like everybody sets up the video memory for the largest possible mode and calls it good
 [13:38:25]  <ajax> (this is assuming randr 1.2 output setup, but that's what you're working on here, right?)
 [13:38:50]  <CosmicPenguin> thats probably not great for our puny GPU - do the pixmaps and whatnot persist through a mode change, or can I re-arrange offscreen memory every time the mode changes?
 [13:38:59]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: yes - Randr 1.2 is in full effect
 [13:40:15]  <ajax> i think right now the only driver that actually implements framebuffer resizing on mode switch is the nv g80 code, when exa is active
 [13:40:19]  <ajax> let me see what they do there...
 [13:40:22]  <keithp> CosmicPenguin: there's no requirement here, just a lack of support for frame buffer resize
 [13:40:31]  <keithp> ajax: there are DRI implications as well
 [13:40:36]  <keithp> not just xaa
 [13:40:38]  <CosmicPenguin> DRI isn't a problem for me
 [13:40:59]  <ajax> geode, remember?
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[13:44:05]  <ajax> so, what G80 does, amusingly, is allocate the screen surface with exaOffscreenAlloc()
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[13:46:43]  <ajax> though i don't see where, exactly, that allocation gets used.
 [13:47:01]  <CosmicPenguin> I don't either
 [13:47:56]  <ajax> it looks like it'd do what you want though, since exaOffscreenAlloc will evict if necessary
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[13:48:30]  <CosmicPenguin> and how about the shadow pixmap - same deal?
 [13:50:09]  <ajax> blah.  why does the shadow code have to be so dire.
 [13:52:08]  <ajax> but yeah, you should be able to create and destroy the shadow pixmap on the fly
 [13:52:14]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [13:52:17]  <CosmicPenguin> thanks
 [13:52:19]  <ajax> np
 [13:52:56]  <CosmicPenguin> framebuffer resize isn't really a deal breaker - it just means you need to be more careful
 [13:53:11]  <CosmicPenguin> like say - don't expect to rotate 1600x1200
[13:54:31]  * CosmicPenguin is off to hack
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[14:00:41]  <ajax> huh.  minor problem.
 [14:00:56]  <ajax> miext/shadow/ is only usable once per screen.
 [14:01:21]  <tjaalton> what component is to blame if some keyboards don't work correctly with evdev?
 [14:01:37]  <ajax> depends how they don't work, i suppose.
 [14:02:30]  <tjaalton> right
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[14:03:43]  <tjaalton> if some keys don't produce events?
 [14:04:43]  <ajax> we can't (sanely) produce events for keycodes >255 atm
 [14:05:08]  <ajax> so if the key's event number coming out of the kernel is too high, you just lose.
 [14:05:19]  <tjaalton> yeah that much I know :)
 [14:05:25]  <ajax> that's pretty rare. but is something the driver should log about.
 [14:05:28]  * ajax writes on whiteboard
 [14:05:45]  <tjaalton> I've got such a keyboard (logitech wave)
 [14:05:55]  <tjaalton> maybe 20 keys are useless
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[14:06:11]  <ajax> if they don't even generate an event coming out of the kernel, then that's almost certainly kernel's fault.
 [14:07:12]  <tjaalton> the bug was about a brazilian ABNT2 layout not working correctly, so I'll just ask for more info
 [14:08:06]  <ajax> #define KEY_BASSBOOST           209
 [14:08:11]  <ajax> yeah man.  we totally need one of those.
 [14:08:23]  <tjaalton> hehe
 [14:09:00]  <Q-FUNK> :D
 [14:09:33]  <jcristau> the kernel people bumped KEY_MAX recently. breaking synaptics in the process.
 [14:09:57]  <Q-FUNK> nice
 [14:10:27]  <jcristau> (as in the synaptics x driver, which was misusing an ioctl)
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[14:11:09]  <Q-FUNK> we will, we will break you
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[14:18:15]  <ajax> whot: http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/evdev-warn-high-keycodes.patch look plausible?
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[14:25:40]  <agd5f> what version of exa added exaMoveInPixmap()?
 [14:31:00]  <jcristau> 2.1 afaict
 [14:34:15]  <agd5f^ thanks!
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[15:03:17]  <math_b_> Hum. that XkbCopyKeymap crash is a use-after-free bug
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[15:25:53]  <aaronp> http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/patches/xf86PrintBacktrace
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[15:31:22]  <ajax> aaronp: yes please
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[15:32:25]  <aaronp> ajax: Thanks
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[15:41:00]  <ajax> daniels: not completely happy about the WindowTable change
 [15:41:11]  <ajax> maxscreens really wants to be dynamic someday
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[15:51:47]  <jbarnes> so is there anything that guarantees that a PutImage call's buf address will be < 4G?
 [15:51:54]  <jbarnes> the intel xvmc code seems to assume so...
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[15:52:20]  <ajax> the dest address?  no.
 [15:52:21]  <daniels^ fair cop, but yeah, it isn't
 [15:52:41]  <daniels> (MAXSCREENS)
 [15:52:45]  <ajax^ yeah, what's one more really.
 [15:53:00]  <daniels> heh
 [15:53:03]  <ajax> hey, so.
 [15:53:13]  <ajax> who objects to fixes being mandatory?
 [15:53:27]  <daniels> no-one, ever.
 [15:53:31]  <ajax> giggity
 [15:54:11]  <ajax> i was looking again at implementing the property filter that desrt was talking about at guadec birmingham
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[15:55:00]  <ajax> (was re: you can't select for PropertyNotify on just the properties you care about)
 [15:55:24]  <jbarnes> hm maybe with xvmc we only ever pass around offsets to video memory so it might be ok...
 [15:56:19]  <ajax> which clearly belongs in fixes.  but i'd hate to have two deliverPropertyNotifyEvent paths.
 [15:56:22]  <ajax> that's just crap
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[16:52:10]  <wereHamster> does the function prototype (in the header) or the function itself (in a c source file) or both have to be annotated with _X_DEPRECATED?
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[17:06:35]  <daniels> wereHamster: just the prototype
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[17:27:35]  <ajax> holy
 [17:27:47]  <ajax> zaitcev's rt_none fix is terrifying in its implications.
 [17:29:16]  <keithp^ what is that supposed to fix?
 [17:29:37]  <ajax> fonts added by the font server have a resource type of RT_NONE
 [17:29:45]  <ajax> lookups on RT_NONE apparently no longer work
 [17:29:57]  <keithp> who broke that?
 [17:30:04]  <ajax> eamon, if i had to guess
 [17:30:10]  <keithp> sigh
 [17:30:15]  <ajax> but holy shit are there a lot of RT_NONE resources in the server
 [17:30:19]  <keithp> xselinux failure
 [17:30:24]  <keithp> yes, there are
 [17:30:29]  <keithp> we can't have RT_NONE fail
 [17:30:46]  <keithp> it should fail a lookup-by-type, but not lookup-by-id
 [17:31:11]  <ajax> ed75b056511ccb429c48c6c55d14dc7ae79e75a3 is the offender, it looks like
 [17:31:49]  <ajax> no wonder 1.4+ leaks, FreeResource() will never find RT_NONE objects
 [17:32:51]  <ajax> it's really not clear to me why dixLookupResource() was changed there anyway
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[17:33:59]  <keithp> trying to get a single entry point into the resource table, I assume
 [17:34:03]  <ajax^ what are the semantics of RT_NONE objects anyway?
 [17:34:16]  <keithp> No free function
 [17:34:23]  <keithp> otherwise, same as any other
 [17:35:24]  <keithp> I think it's actually easy to fix though
 [17:35:34]  <keithp> just switch the sense of the type test
 [17:36:34]  <keithp> istype = ((rtype & ~TypeMask) == 0);
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[17:37:01]  <keithp> which is to say, it's a type lookup unless it passes a class
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[17:38:31]  <keithp> oh
 [17:38:36]  <keithp> that's not right
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[17:39:56]  <keithp> how about it's a class lookup if there are class bits but no type bits
 [17:41:05]  <keithp> I'd rather just add dixLookupResourceByType and dixLookupResourceByClass though
 [17:41:35]  <wereHamster> ajax: I wrote the WindowTable patch. It was just something that I saw while reading the code. I didn't think it would be that big deal, I'd expect X12 to be released before the dynamic screens :P
 [17:42:20]  <ajax^ just idle whinging on my part.  i do want dynamic screens someday, and possibly even before X12.
 [17:42:36]  <ajax> but, like i said, the amount of other shit needed for that to get changed ain't small.  what's one more.
 [17:45:31]  <keithp>     Bool istype = ((rtype & TypeMask) && (rtype != RC_ANY)) || (rtype == RT_NONE);
 [17:45:31]  <keithp>
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[17:45:40]  <keithp> ajax: I think that's all we need
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[17:45:59]  <keithp> ajax: Can I also add dixLookupResourceByClass and dixLookupResourceByType and change all existing dixLookupResource users though?
 [17:46:23]  <ajax> yes plz
 [17:46:28]  <keithp> ok
 [17:47:18]  <keithp> one minute please
 [17:48:13]  <wereHamster> I have two more cleanup patches, much less controversial IMO (one removes the NullWindow, NullPixmap etc defines and replaces them with a NULL, and the other changes 'return(...);' to 'return ...;', removes the bracers aroud the return value). I also tried to remove all the casts of xalloc return value and remove the if from 'if (x) xfree(x)'.
 [17:49:05]  <keithp^ NullPixmap/NullWindow etc are useful as they catch parameter ordering errors
 [17:52:54]  <pcpa> ajax: can you check in xorg/xserver, please: $ git diff dfbe32b5b828cc4e3da36a0e2e6ad641164eaa5e..f7f3fe7fe7233a2ffc43106c48f44cbbd82b7c19 -- os/osdep.h   -- I think you made an incorrect change :-)
 [17:53:51]  <ajax> no, that's fine.
 [17:53:56]  <ajax> -#if !defined(__UNIXOS2__) && !defined(WIN32)
 [17:53:56]  <ajax> +#if !defined(WIN32)
 [17:54:04]  <ajax> __UNIXOS2__ is never defined
 [17:54:13]  <ajax> so, #if 1 && stuff
 [17:54:19]  <ajax> is equivalent to #if stuff
 [17:54:49]  <pcpa^ thanks, I am getting an weird error message: In file included from connection.c:108:
 [17:54:49]  <pcpa> osdep.h:95:5: error: missing binary operator before token "("
 [17:57:30]  <pcpa> ajax: will need to check it better, maybe for some reason I am having OPEN_MAX being defined to '(sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX))', that error message is from rpm build...
 [17:57:47]  <ajax> yeah, that's definitely not a good thing to have it defined to.
 [17:58:20]  <ajax> i would be surprised if POSIX didn't require OPEN_MAX to be a compile-time constant.
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[18:02:22]  <pcpa> ajax: I think I am getting that definition from xorg/lib/libxtrans/Xtransint.h +132, will need to build locally to see all logs... thanks
 [18:02:35]  <aaronp> Wow, resizing windows utterly fails with compiz + GTK + two X screens.
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[18:10:02]  <keithp> ajax: a sizable patch
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[18:38:40]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: still here?
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[18:56:04]  <dberkholz> agd5f: hmm. trying out xf86-video-ati git, xrandr still shows DVI-0 disconnected
 [18:56:53]  <dberkholz> this is that rs480 i was telling you about the other day
 [18:58:12]  <agd5f^ hmmm
 [18:58:19]  <agd5f> can you send me the bios?
 [18:58:44]  <dberkholz^ sure, gimme a command line
 [18:59:14]  <dberkholz> it's currently on xorg-server-1.4.99.902 if that matters.
 [18:59:37]  <agd5f> cd /sys/bus/pci/devices/<pci bus id>
 [18:59:50]  <agd5f> look that up with lspci
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[19:00:13]  <dberkholz> sure, i'm there
 [19:00:17]  <agd5f> echo 1 > rom; cat rom > /temp/video.rom; echo 0 > rom
 [19:01:44]  <dberkholz^ http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/video.rom
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[19:07:10]  <ajax> CosmicPenguin: back now
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[19:09:45]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: okay, I was going to say that I thought that a lack of monitor information was causing xf86ProbeOutputModes to discard all of the default modes
 [19:10:01]  <CosmicPenguin> but I just found out that I'm using an older version of th server with a buggy xf86GetDefaultModes
 [19:10:48]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: I was going to ask you if it was more correct to dummy up monitor information or just to call xf86GetDefaultModes myself in output->get_modes and add them to the list
 [19:11:11]  <CosmicPenguin> but that seems to be moot
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[19:12:45]  <ajax> even my silence speaks volumes
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[19:14:50]  <agd5f> dberkholz: I just pushed a fix
 [19:15:25]  <dberkholz^ sweet! trying it now
 [19:16:25]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: that aside, yay for scaling - now every random person who just _has_ to run quake on the XO can put it into 320x200 and frag away
 [19:17:07]  <ajax> huzzah!
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[19:18:14]  <dberkholz> huh.
 [19:18:15]  <dberkholz> DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
 [19:19:10]  <agd5f> :-/
 [19:19:36]  <agd5f> dberkholz: does it work if you force it on with xrandr?
 [19:20:53]  <dberkholz^ i was just thinking about that. lemme figure out how, and i'll have one of the henchmen over there take a look to see whether it actually lit up
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[19:24:04]  <dberkholz> alright, now i've done `xrandr --addmode DVI-0 1280x1024` and `xrandr --output DVI-0 --mode 1280x1024`, and i'm waiting for someone to go look at it
 [19:24:20]  <dberkholz> xrandr now says it's disconnected but shows the active mode as 1280x1024
 [19:24:21]  <whot> ajax: looks good, though I'd use xf86Msg instead of ErrorF
 [19:24:22]  <agd5f> dberkholz: cool
 [19:25:51]  <dberkholz^ no luck
 [19:26:13]  <agd5f^ got a log?
 [19:27:17]  <dberkholz^ http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/Xorg.0.log.biggerscreen
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[19:43:19]  <aaronp> Aargh.  When compiz gets a sync alarm event, it does this:
 [19:47:38]  <aaronp> w = NULL; for(s in each screen) for(w in each window on the screen) if(w->syncAlarm == sa->alarm) break;
 [19:47:44]  <aaronp> if(w) handle the event
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[19:48:28]  <ssp> aaronp: What's wrong with that?
[19:49:03]  <ssp> as long as "window" is toplevel, that shouldn't take too long
 [19:49:15]  <aaronp> The break only breaks the inner loop.
 [19:49:30]  <aaronp> It then fails to find the window on the second screen, and then fails to handle the sync alarm event.
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[19:52:14]  <ssp> ah
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[21:31:02]  <cjb> boggle.  I can "fix" the openmoko input rotation by passing height first instead of width to KdComputeMouseMatrix(), but it only works for normal/left/right and not inverted.
 [21:33:42]  <cjb> another way of saying that is that I should call KdComputeMouseMatrix() *before* updating pScreen->width and pScreen->height.
 [21:33:56]  <cjb> that seems to be borne out by other drivers, so I guess I'll do it.  Wonder why.
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[22:02:46]  <math_b> Is there any reason why Xcalloc does not just call libc's calloc ?
 [22:03:15]  <math_b> it does an explicit Xalloc + bzero instead
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[22:23:12]  <ajax> no good reason, no.
 [22:39:20]  <whot> math_b: can't reproduce the crash here. what's your setup?
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[01:21:43]  <agd5f> dberkholz: can you try this patch when you get a chance? http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/dberkholz.diff
 [01:22:58]  <dberkholz^ sure. i can test it now if it might fix autodetection, or tomorrow if i need someone to look in person
 [01:23:18]  <agd5f> it may fix ddc
 [01:24:22]  <agd5f> so auto detect
 [01:24:30]  <dberkholz> right
 [01:24:37]  <dberkholz> k, trying
 [01:24:43]  <agd5f^ I'm working on a possible fix for tmds too
 [01:28:45]  <dberkholz> DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
 [01:30:16]  <agd5f> :-/
 [01:30:29]  <dberkholz> yeah, i know
 [01:30:30]  <agd5f> http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/dberkholz2.diff
 [01:33:53]  <dberkholz^ same stuff, http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/rs480-xrandr.txt
 [01:34:06]  <agd5f> ok one last one
 [01:34:28]  <dberkholz> oh, i can go for another hour and a half till i have to get some sleep =)
 [01:35:07]  <agd5f^ http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/i2c_lock.diff
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[01:37:37]  <dberkholz> agd5f: same
 [01:38:24]  <agd5f> I'm out of ideas for now
 [01:38:42]  <dberkholz> damn
 [01:38:56]  <agd5f> that patch might fix the tmds though so it actually turns on
 [01:39:41]  <dberkholz^ with the last one, i can't actually set DVI-0 to the mode i just added
 [01:40:06]  <agd5f> ?
 [01:40:18]  <dberkholz> i run xrandr --addmode, and the mode doesn't add
 [01:40:40]  <agd5f> that patch might have broken ddc on your other monitor
 [01:40:46]  <agd5f> so there's no mode to add
 [01:40:56]  <dberkholz> the other monitor still shows all the modes
 [01:41:02]  <agd5f> weird
 [01:41:12]  <dberkholz> dberkholz@biggerscreen /usr/local/portage/overlay/x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati $ DISPLAY=:0 xrandr --addmode DVI-0 1280x1024
 [01:41:15]  <dberkholz> dberkholz@biggerscreen /usr/local/portage/overlay/x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati $ DISPLAY=:0 xrandr --output DVI-0 --mode 1280x1024
 [01:41:18]  <dberkholz> xrandr: cannot find mode 1280x1024
 [01:41:24]  <dberkholz> but from the other...
 [01:41:24]  <dberkholz>    1280x1024      75.0     60.0     60.0 
[01:42:21]  <agd5f^ weird.  try xrandr --newmode "1280x1024R"   90.75  1280 1328 1360 1440  1024 1027 1034 1054 +hsync -vsync
 [01:42:56]  <agd5f> then xrandr --addmode DVI-0 "1280x1024R"
 [01:43:02]  <dberkholz> xrandr: cannot find mode "1280x1024R"
 [01:43:24]  <keithp^ make sure xrandr lists it
 [01:44:01]  <dberkholz> oh, it doesn't
 [01:44:11]  <dberkholz> it silently "adds" it, but it never shows up
 [01:44:20]  <keithp> helpful of it
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[01:45:59]  <dberkholz> keithp: i figured out why X hack days have become so rare... you all work at the same frickin place now
 [01:47:31]  <keithp>
[01:47:36]  <keithp> you could come up and play too :-)
 [01:48:59]  <dberkholz> my primary focus right now is finishing grad school at some point in the not-distant future
 [01:49:10]  <keithp> yeah, I figured as much
 [01:49:46]  <agd5f> dberkholz: http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/dberkholz3.diff
 [01:49:46]  <dberkholz> X is getting even shorter shrift from me than before, between an increased focus on grad school, the kid showing up soon, and more effort into fixing gentoo
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[01:50:30]  <keithp> well, finish school and then you can work on X at least part-time
 [01:50:47]  <agd5f> dberkholz: and if that doesn't work switch the commented lines and try again
 [01:52:18]  <dberkholz> first way didn't work
 [01:53:23]  <dberkholz> keithp: i need to think of some way to make X development a core part of biochemistry research. ideas have not been forthcoming
 [01:53:42]  <dberkholz> agd5f: neither gave me a "DVI-0 connected"
 [01:53:54]  <keithp^ not sure why; most PhD's I know are working out-of-field :-)
 [01:54:00]  <agd5f+ i figured as much
 [01:54:21]  <dberkholz> i can give those 4 patches a try at some point where someone can actually look at the monitor
 [01:54:22]  <agd5f^ gpgpu stuff for chemical research?
 [01:54:36]  <dberkholz^ yeah, there's actually some of that going on and it's quite interesting
 [01:55:04]  <keithp^ integrated graphics might be an interesting place to play with that :-)
 [01:55:11]  <keithp> lots of memory, cheap boxen
 [01:55:22]  <dberkholz> everyone's writing their apps with tesla, because that's what works now
 [01:55:42]  <dberkholz> http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/jctcce/asap/abs/ct8001046.html# for example
 [01:56:08]  <dberkholz> or http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120736866/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 which is cell, but applies about the same to gpu
 [01:56:12]  <keithp> yeah, nvidia is doing a fairly good job pushing that stuff
 [01:56:40]  <dberkholz> i think it's gonna be one of those things where everyone else will have to provide something that's either ridiculously better, or will have to port tesla to their stuff
 [01:57:08]  <keithp> like regular x86 :-)
 [01:57:26]  <dberkholz^ re your comment, yeah it would give people something to do with that integrated chip after they buy a real card =)
 [01:57:45]  <keithp> oh, you can't turn both on at the same time (at least not yet)
 [01:57:59]  <agd5f> you can with ours ;)
 [01:58:15]  <keithp> cool.
 [01:58:37]  <dberkholz> i just had to buy an nvidia at work because ati's stereo has been too unreliable in the past and they didn't support anything but the latest hardware
 [01:58:38]  <keithp> I don't think there's any technical reason, just no obvious demand
 [01:59:09]  <keithp> dberkholz: that's too bad
 [01:59:12]  <dberkholz> not my first choice, but pragmatic wins
 [01:59:55]  <dberkholz> keithp: get someone to make stereo 3d work on your stuff
 [02:00:08]  <dberkholz> i'd love to save a few hundred bucks and just buy integrated
 [02:00:18]  <keithp> I haven't even looked at what that would take
 [02:00:26]  <keithp> we can drive two monitors; is that sufficient?
 [02:00:28]  <dberkholz> double the buffers
 [02:00:47]  <keithp> and flip at vblank?
 [02:00:56]  <keithp> with some kind of sync to glasses?
 [02:01:03]  <dberkholz> yeah needs flipping between left & right eye images @ 120hz+
 [02:01:06]  * keithp hasn't looked at stereo setups for 20 years
 [02:01:20]  <keithp> how do you get the frame counts sync'd?
 [02:01:22]  <dberkholz> workstation-class cards have stereo din ports that lcd shutter glasses plug into
 [02:01:33]  <keithp> ah
 [02:01:56]  <dberkholz> the old stuff did funky stuff like sync to green
 [02:02:56]  <dberkholz> the other problem with stereo is that it's nigh-impossible to find an lcd capable of it, so most folks are still on crt's
 [02:03:42]  <keithp> I've seen some 120hz LCD displays recently
 [02:03:49]  <keithp> I think they're available
 [02:04:48]  <dberkholz> they're in the thousands range atm for decent ones
 [02:04:51]  <keithp> looks like new shutters are just in-line HDMI devices
 [02:05:18]  <dberkholz> http://pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html is basically what people in our area use
 [02:05:26]  <dberkholz> for shutters, monitors, etc
 [02:06:16]  <dberkholz> http://pymol.sourceforge.net/pmimag/dual_lcd_stereo.jpg is what lcd's doing stereo look like
 [02:06:26]  <dberkholz> it's pretty much a hack
 [02:07:18]  <keithp> ok, that's ugly
 [02:08:06]  <keithp> seems like HD-15 passthrough is fairly common; I assume there's some kind of button to align frames
 [02:08:19]  <dberkholz> there's also the kind that chop your resolution in half and display the left/right images at the right angles in alternating vertical lines
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[02:08:40]  <keithp> sure, but if you've got a CRT, it should be fairly easy to do stereo with the 965
 [02:10:36]  <keithp> I should fund a summer intern to do that
 [02:10:53]  <dberkholz> there are old patches around for radeon and mga that one could get a conceptual idea from
 [02:10:56]  <keithp> I've got a giant CRT in my closet that should do 120Hz, after all
 [02:11:09]  <keithp> Not sure they're still relevant; GEM makes this kind of thing easy
 [02:11:32]  <keithp> just allocate another frame buffer and then program the kernel to flip between the two
 [02:11:33]  <dberkholz> you can pick up a great monitor (p1230) for <$150 used. i just bought one today
 [02:11:50]  <keithp> I know; I give them away if I can find anyone to take them
 [02:12:06]  <keithp> but, all of the development could be done on an LCD at 60hz
 [02:12:36]  <dberkholz> yep, as long as you can stand to look at something that flickery
 [02:12:46]  <keithp> I assume there are existing open source GL apps that use this stuff?
 [02:13:17]  <dberkholz> pymol, coot, O are the ones i use on a daily basis. that's in roughly the order of usability & ease of installing
 [02:13:30]  <dberkholz> O is closed but free
 [02:13:41]  <keithp> What do the systems do when the 3D app isn't full-screen?
 [02:13:48]  <dberkholz> be smart
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[02:13:52]  <keithp> ah
 [02:13:56]  <keithp> lots of copying, I imagine
 [02:13:56]  <dberkholz> only the gl window is stereo
 [02:14:03]  <keithp> check
 [02:14:06]  <keithp> Hmm.
 [02:14:10]  <keithp> I could probably do double-rendering
 [02:14:16]  <keithp> that would be fun to try
 [02:14:21]  <keithp> relevant for shatter too
 [02:15:05]  <dberkholz^ got any interest in intern coders from the OSL?
 [02:15:24]  <keithp> maybe
 [02:15:28]  <keithp> send some names along
 [02:15:40]  <keithp> having people near you doing interesting add-ons would be cool
 [02:15:57]  <keithp> and, something like stereo would have fairly geek-factor
 [02:16:05]  <dberkholz> i'm more connected on the sysadmin side of things, and i know those guys do plenty of internships. one of 'em is somewhere near pdx @ intel this summer
 [02:16:44]  <keithp> send some names along and I'll see what I can do
 [02:17:00]  <keithp> having a few extra minions around could be cool though
 [02:17:28]  <keithp> and, we're nearly done rewriting the X stack at this point, so that kind of hacking becomes fairly easy
 [02:17:31]  <dberkholz> ah, minion, that's the word.
 [02:17:34]  <keithp> except for the 2d part
 [02:17:40]  <dberkholz> i could not think of it earlier today for some reason
 [02:17:43]  <dberkholz> had to settle for henchman
 [02:17:47]  <keithp> heh
 [02:17:56]  <keithp> not quite the same flavor
 [02:18:38]  <dberkholz> i know, it was a real personal disappointment
 [02:19:12]  <keithp> would people mock an in-line HD-15 solution?
 [02:19:16]  <keithp> Or just cope?
 [02:19:54]  <dberkholz> well, you'd just need to come up with an explanation of why it's just as good as the separate port, but easier
 [02:20:04]  <dberkholz> and cheaper is a big factor
 [02:20:13]  <keithp> uh, because the machine is too cheap for a separate port?
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[02:20:23]  <keithp> How complicated are these models?
 [02:20:30]  <keithp> Thousands of polys? Or more?
 [02:21:06]  <dberkholz> i'll upload a couple of examples for you
 [02:22:22]  <dberkholz> keithp: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/vald-1t47-down-critical-axis.png http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/vald-1t47-down-critical-axis-consurf.png http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/overlay-histidines.png
 [02:23:11]  <keithp> I assume these are easier to parse in stereo ;-)
 [02:23:20]  <dberkholz> that's the idea =)
 [02:24:13]  <keithp> Looks like plenty of polys there
 [02:24:39]  <dberkholz> well, the last one is tricky to understand regardless, but it is a little easier in stereo
 [02:26:05]  <keithp> do you have anything like that in .pdb form already?
 [02:26:28]  <keithp> the examples with pymol are all fairly small
 [02:27:54]  <dberkholz> oh, sure
 [02:27:59]  <dberkholz> lemme dig up a pymol session file
 [02:28:04]  <keithp> heh
 [02:28:13]  <keithp> pymol was rather easy to install :-)
 [02:28:20]  <dberkholz> packaged already?
 [02:28:25]  <keithp> it is debian
 [02:28:39]  <keithp> and, just worked
 [02:28:49]  <keithp> a nice surprise for a 3D app
 [02:28:55]  <keithp> someday that won't be a surprise
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[02:29:36]  <dberkholz> keithp: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/caver-k66-e201.pse
 [02:30:02]  <dberkholz> either run pymol with that as $1 or open it from the file menu
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[02:32:19]  <keithp> hmm. it has two little pacifier bars in the upper left for a while, then stops
 [02:32:32]  <dberkholz> they should finish going to the right after a little bit
 [02:32:37]  <dberkholz> and then display something
 [02:32:38]  <keithp> yeah
 [02:32:41]  <keithp> nope
 [02:32:56]  <dberkholz> guess your pymol sucks. tell debian to update it, i guess. i'll find another .pse
 [02:33:57]  <keithp> it's 1.1
 [02:34:02]  <dberkholz> oh, that is current
 [02:34:19]  <dberkholz> ah, here's a good one
 [02:34:50]  <dberkholz> keithp: try http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/overlay.pse
 [02:34:57]  <keithp> oh, run from the file menu it does something at least
 [02:35:08]  <dberkholz> should be more renderable but similar complex
 [02:36:10]  <dberkholz> zoom in a bit (right-drag down) so your view is filled with stuff to get something like we'd look at
 [02:36:56]  <keithp> plenty fast
 [02:37:00]  <keithp> on even 965
 [02:37:11]  <dberkholz> you can manage that without 3d if you want to, but imagine adding an electron density map around that (a finely spaced tri mesh surrounding every single stick)
 [02:38:03]  <keithp> I'll try the other .pse here
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[02:40:28]  <dberkholz> keithp: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/coot-with-density-mesh.png is a screenshot showing the mesh
 [02:42:06]  <dberkholz> quite nicely rendered on my i965 with smooth lines, i may add
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[02:42:21]  <keithp> sweet
 [02:42:32]  <keithp> coot, otoh, is not packaged it seems
 [02:42:35]  <dberkholz> but you should be able to estimate triangles from that
 [02:42:41]  <dberkholz> yeah, it's a bit more specialist than pymol
 [02:42:51]  <dberkholz> there's an ubuntu package around that might work
 [02:42:51]  <keithp> a few thousand
 [02:42:58]  <keithp> uh, no thanks
 [02:43:13]  <keithp> but, pymol will use stereo, I assume
 [02:43:18]  <dberkholz> oh yes
 [02:43:27]  <dberkholz> it's in one of those menus up top
 [02:43:53]  <dberkholz> checkbox for stereo, and a chooser to pick the type (walleyed or crosseyed if you're too broke, and real quad-buffered stereo)
 [02:44:56]  <keithp> oh.
 [02:45:01]  <keithp> I'll bet I could make this work on a laptop
 [02:45:09]  <keithp> how cool would that be?
 [02:45:29]  <dberkholz> pretty cool if a laptop actually refreshed fast enough to be usable
 [02:45:41]  <keithp> just randr the CRT and LVDS to the same crtc
 [02:45:53]  <keithp> not sure how fast I can drive a typical LVDS
 [02:45:59]  <keithp> maybe 85hz though
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[02:46:07]  <keithp> that would still be fairly dire for stereo
 [02:47:35]  <keithp> oh well, must $office tomorrow, which means actually getting up in the morning
 [02:48:42]  <dberkholz> g'night sir
 [02:48:58]  <dberkholz> back to reading the new lwn..
 [02:49:23]  <keithp> already did that myself
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[02:54:37]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:09:54]  <tjaalton> hmm, right ctrl repeats, left doesn't
 [03:09:59]  <tjaalton> with evdev
 [03:11:37]  <whot^ fi layout?
 [03:11:58]  <tjaalton^ that's what I use, but got reports that others have it too
 [03:12:50]  <tjaalton> the guy with ABNT2 has a broken '?/' key, that's probably xkeyboard-config problem?
 [03:13:04]  <whot^ right, 1.5 does it. master doesn't
 [03:13:14]  <tjaalton> cool
 [03:13:21]  <tjaalton> that there's a fix :)
 [03:15:06]  <tjaalton> but I'm out of ideas how to debug the problem where a couple of guys have us layout, model evdev and the up arrow still produces printscreen
 [03:15:41]  <whot^ http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/xkbfix/0001-xfree86-force-SwitchCoreKeyboard-for-evdev-devices.patch
 [03:16:28]  <whot> of course, this doesn't work in a few cases, but I consider those cases where the users volunteer for pain
 [03:16:55]  <tjaalton> I already have that one :(
 [03:17:01]  <tjaalton> and they should too
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[03:18:10]  <tjaalton> but I'll ask to be sure
 [03:18:11]  <whot^ that's bad then. gnome -> keyboard pref -> layouts model must be evdev-managed
 [03:18:23]  <whot> if that doesn't help, I'm kinda out of ideas too
 [03:18:24]  <tjaalton> yes, and AFAIK it is
 [03:18:49]  <whot^ can you point me to a bugreport with conf + log?
 [03:18:50]  <tjaalton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008
 [03:19:01]  <tjaalton> damn.. logfile missing :)
 [03:19:12]  <tjaalton> but some extra noise
 [03:21:16]  <whot^ I need xorg.conf, log file and output of setxkbmap -print
[03:22:09]  <tjaalton^ ok, added comments
 [03:23:09]  <whot^ do you have the other patches in as well? the ProcXkb* ones
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[03:24:14]  <tjaalton> whot: the two patches you added in fedora
 [03:26:10]  <whot^ hmm. then I really need the setxkbmap output
 [03:26:55]  <whot> oh, and if you find which commit fixed the ctrl repeat issue that'd be nice :)
 [03:27:07]  <tjaalton^ searching for it atm :)
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[03:31:32]  <tjaalton> is it possible to get a git-log diff between branches?
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[03:32:58]  <whot> tjaalton: git log master..server-1.5-branch?
 [03:33:31]  <tjaalton^ yeah, thanks
 [03:33:50]  <tjaalton> thats.. long
 [03:34:20]  <whot^ well, mpx alone were 500 commits or so :)
 [03:34:45]  <tjaalton> gah :)
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[04:26:33]  <tjaalton> whot: same repeat problem on 1.4.1
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[04:29:40]  <tjaalton> bisecting it is hard since testing a random commit means the current drivers might not work because of ABI changes
 [04:29:51]  <tjaalton> at least that's AIUI
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[04:31:40]  <whot> tjaalton: that could be a bit of a pain, yes
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[05:06:30]  <tjaalton> whot: ok, now there's a logfile in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008
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[06:12:08]  <geaaru> hi at all, i use git version of xorg-server... is there a version of synaptics driver compliant? If yes, where i can found it? thanks in advance
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[06:18:19]  <airlied> geaaru: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-synaptics/
 [06:18:34]  <geaaru^ thanks
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[07:03:39]  <tjaalton> svu_: ping, key mapped to Romaji with evdev
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[07:29:27]  <math_b> whot: I have latest git for the graphic stack and current ubuntu intrepid for the rest.
 [07:33:29]  <math_b> This crash is just wierd, it crash somewhere deep in libc's realloc. My best guest is that it's a use after free issue, but none of the glibc provided debug tool (mcheck, mtrace, MALLOC_CHECK_ et al) are reporting any error
 [07:35:19]  <math_b> and valgrind report so many errors that is usually hang the machine
 [07:36:27]  <whot^ I can't even start through valgrind, so...
 [07:36:45]  <whot> no idea to be honest, it's one of the things that is hard to find if I can't reproduce it
 [07:37:56]  <math_b> possibly completely unrelated with that issue there ARE use after free bug in the server as several thing fails when valgrinded with --free-fill=0 (it fill freed memory with zeros)
 [07:39:34]  <math_b> very funnily the crash is gone if malloc is prevented from using brk and is force to always use mmap
 [07:40:20]  <whot^ can you file the use-after-free ones in a bug please. I'm off for tonight
 [07:40:30]  <math_b> so I really don't know what is going on here, I just hope it's neither a libc nor a gcc bug.
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[07:41:50]  <math_b> whot: Before tonight I don't think I will have the time, but I will keep you informed.
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[07:49:38]  <math_b> that's of course not a but ISO C says that realloc(NULL,size) == malloc(size) and realloc(ptr,0) == free(ptr), yet  Xrealloc implementation seems unaware of that AND there is plenty of "if(ptr) Xrealloc(ptr,..) else malloc()" at least in XKB code
 [07:50:05]  <math_b> that's of course not a bug but ...
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[08:15:12]  <daniels> math_b: thanks for tracking down where XkbCopyKeymap failed, I have a decent idea of where the problem is and will stare at the code when I get a free moment (presumably on the train this weekend)
 [08:18:13]  <math_b^ i will do my best to provide any details you might need regarding this issue before the weekend. I will try to find the time to fill a bug repport, if needed.
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[08:23:09]  <daniels> math_b: thanks very much! no urgent hurry, really appreciate your help chasing this down
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[09:56:46]  <jcristau> ajax: Xtransint.h defines OPEN_MAX to the problematic value afaict
 [09:57:27]  <ajax> do what now
 [09:59:49]  <ajax> oh.  oh dear.
 [09:59:57]  <ajax> someone needs an ass-whuppin'
 [10:00:13]  <daniels> if _POSIX_SOURCE is defined, we should be indirectly getting it through limits.h
 [10:01:19]  <ajax> one would hope so, yes.
 [10:01:48]  <jcristau> limits.h doesn't seem to define it
 [10:02:24]  <ajax> probably unistd.h then
 [10:02:29]  <jcristau> only _POSIX_OPEN_MAX, but, 16.
 [10:02:55]  <ajax> 344. Use return value sysconf (_SC_OPEN_MAX) instead of the fixed number 25
 [10:03:06]  <ajax>     for allowed number of open files on POSIX.1 conformant systems
 [10:03:07]  <ajax>           (Egbert Eich).
 [10:03:17]  <ajax> (g-t fail, should be 255)
 [10:03:23]  <ajax> 256 even
 [10:04:38]  <daniels> jcristau: limits.h -> bits/posix1_lim.h -> bits/local_lim.h, but only if __USE_POSIX (i.e. _POSIX_SOURCE) is usefully defined.
 [10:05:25]  <jcristau^ not here
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[10:06:31]  <jcristau> "The kernel header pollutes the namespace with the NR_OPEN symbol and defines LINK_MAX although filesystems have different maxima.  A similar thing is true for OPEN_MAX: the limit can be changed at runtime and therefore the macro must not be defined.  Remove this after including the header if necessary."
 [10:07:45]  <jcristau> and linux/limits.h doesn't define OPEN_MAX anyway
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[10:08:29]  <ajax> oh my god #ifdef ultrix
 [10:10:40]  <daniels^ yeah ...
 [10:10:51]  <daniels> jcristau: er, on debian?
 [10:11:00]  <jcristau^ current sid
 [10:11:16]  <daniels^ no, sorry, you're right
 [10:17:05]  <ajax> #if defined(O_NONBLOCK) && !defined(uniosu) && !defined(SCO325)
 [10:17:13]  <ajax> what the hell is uniosu?
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[10:17:41]  <daniels> if anyone wants to conduct archaeology on old and fucked unices, they should just read x source
 [10:17:57]  <ajax> __sxg__ ?
 [10:19:26]  <daniels> i have a very hard time not typoing that one
 [10:20:07]  <daniels> erm, grepping for __sxg__ and excluding xtrans/imake/etc turns up ... nothing.
 [10:20:37]  <ajax> banhammer
 [10:21:00]  <ajax> +#if defined(WIN32) || defined(USG) && !defined(CRAY) && !defined(umips) && !defined(MOTOROLA)
[10:21:08]  <ajax> honestly now
 [10:21:30]  <daniels> #@$)(@)($#@$
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[10:23:23]  <ajax> 7 files changed, 28 insertions(+), 631 deletions(-)
 [10:23:26]  <ajax> god i love sunifdef
 [10:23:27]  <krh> code contortionism
 [10:27:15]  <ajax> you know what, screw it
 [10:27:22]  <ajax> that whole block can just die
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[10:33:50]  <ajax> there.  let's see what that breaks, eh?
 [10:41:53]  <math_b> x11proto is a very nice place for some unifdef catharsis
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[10:44:23]  <daniels> not to mention xtrans
 [10:44:59]  <cjb> morning
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[10:45:59]  <daniels> cjb: i apologise that you have to wake up to such unpleasant conversation
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[10:47:35]  <cjb> well, apology accepted, just don't do it again.  I mean, Ultrix, really.
 [10:47:55]  <daniels> man, if you lived in the same city as ajax, you could probably smack him upside the head or something
 [10:47:58]  <daniels> oh hang on
 [10:48:25]  <cjb> :)
 [10:48:40]  <cjb> I think that's only true if we choose to believe Red Hat's propaganda about having a "Boston" office.
 [10:49:15]  <daniels> i can just imagine someone standing in the middle of westford (i.e. next to the road)
 [10:49:19]  <daniels> HELLO
 [10:49:21]  <daniels> HEY GUYS
 [10:49:23]  <daniels> WHERE'S BOSTON
 [10:52:38]  <math_b> Xfuncs.h: /* the old Xfuncs.h, for pre-R6 */
 [10:54:25]  <ajax> i remember a story about a thread on one of google's internal mailing lists
 [10:54:49]  <ajax> where people were complaining about how it really sucks to have to work in mountain view because there's nothing around
 [10:55:19]  <ajax> and how someone should really come up with some sort of construct where you could have residential and commercial services in close proximity with good transportation between them
 [10:55:36]  <ajax> the rejoinder of course being "yes, they have these things.  most of our offices are in them.  they're called cities."
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[10:56:25]  <ajax> not that this is in _any_ _way_ relevant to having an office in westford.
 [10:58:31]  <daniels> you could always move to raleigh
 [10:58:49]  <CosmicPenguin> ah, you silly east coast folk with your cities and cultural opertunities
 [10:59:01]  <ajax> raleigh not really a step up
 [10:59:17]  <ajax> better barbecue though
 [10:59:48]  <agd5f^ see if you can work from home
 [10:59:54]  <ajax^ i often do
 [11:00:04]  <agd5f> nice
 [11:00:09]  <ajax> problem is almost all of my toys are at the office
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[11:21:50]  <warren_> Is there any way to react to changes in an X atom without polling it in a loop?
 [11:25:33]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ping
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[12:48:42]  <ajax> cjb: learn still seems unhappy.  is the tinderbox building against system xtrans, or own-built xtrans?
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[12:50:54]  <cjb> ajax: I don't think it's had a chance to build your changes yet.
 [12:51:06]  <cjb> bombadil just turned green (but hasn't finished that run yet)
 [12:51:29]  <cjb> learn only runs once every four hours, so wait another ~20 mins for the current run to get down to the server and we'll find out.
 [12:51:35]  <ajax> cool
 [12:51:51]  <cjb> (sounds like all's good, since bombadil is happy now.)
 [12:52:04]  <ajax> huzzah!
 [12:52:24]  <ajax> i eagerly await someone telling me i broke the build on their amiga/ux box
 [12:52:36]  <ajax> ... in five weeks when the build finishes
 [12:52:42]  <cjb> haha
 [12:53:04]  <CosmicPenguin> 18 files changed, 1589 insertions(+), 1837 deletions(-)
 [12:53:11]  <CosmicPenguin> I have much love for the RandR1.2 right now
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[13:12:27]  <ajax> cjb: did you have instructions somewhere on adding machines to the tinderbox?
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[13:26:13]  <svu_> tjaalton, pong?
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[13:28:51]  <cjb> ajax: yup, moment
 [13:29:28]  <cjb> btw, intel's complaining about libdrm not being >= 2.4.0, but the version in git seems to be 2.3.1.
 [13:30:48]  <cjb> http://tinderbox.x.org/participate should do it.
 [13:30:58]  <cjb> For the final jhbuild command, I use something of the form:
 [13:31:06]  <cjb> /home/cjb/bin/jhbuild autobuild -a -c --report-url="http://cjb-learn:XXXXX@monad.printf.net/builds/rpc" xorg-libs xserver xorg-drivers xorg-apps
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[13:32:16]  <cjb> I'm using svn r1880 of upstream jhbuild.
 [13:34:56]  <ajax> nggh.  need to fix kvm on this machine.
 [13:37:21]  <cjb> keithp: Do you know whether video-intel's supposed to build against GIT master of libdrm?
 [13:37:30]  <cjb> jbarnes: ^
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[13:52:35]  <wereHamster> are C99-style loop variables allowed (for (int i = 0; ...))?
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[13:57:47]  <jbarnes> cjb: yes
 [13:57:59]  <cjb^ okay, it doesn't :)
 [13:58:19]  <cjb> you check for libdrm>2.4 and master HEAD is still 2.3.1
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[13:59:19]  <jbarnes> cjb: oh sorry I meant drm-gem of libdrm
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[13:59:50]  <cjb> I see.  I wonder what to do for the tinderbox.
 [14:00:16]  <jbarnes^ keithp or anholt are supposed to merge drm-gem libdrm bits into master soon
 [14:00:23]  <cjb> Oh, okay.
 [14:00:40]  <cjb> Thanks, will wait.
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[14:11:45]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: you want that experimental geode driver in F10? =)
 [14:12:01]  <CosmicPenguin> its your funeral.. :)
 [14:12:17]  <CosmicPenguin> it should stabilize quickly
 [14:12:57]  <warren> if I get through these LTSP changes I'll test it on my pile of geode LX
 [14:13:07]  <CosmicPenguin> awesome
 [14:13:40]  <CosmicPenguin> I don't foresee any problems  - RandR is pretty bulletproof
 [14:13:49]  <CosmicPenguin> or rather, idiot proof
 [14:14:26]  <warren> that's one way of asking for it.
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[14:25:47]  <mraudsepp> CosmicPenguin: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15700 is apparently the black boxes thing warren was having.
 [14:26:44]  <warren^ yes, I filed that.
 [14:27:32]  <CosmicPenguin> bleh
 [14:27:45]  <CosmicPenguin> alright
 [14:27:50]  <CosmicPenguin> I hate composite bugs
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[14:35:38]  <CosmicPenguin> That kind of sounds like a race with the upload functiona again
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[14:42:50]  <mraudsepp> again? Maybe a re-check with default (always) heuristics is in order then? :)
 [14:43:29]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not laughing
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[14:47:00]  <mraudsepp> I meant it might be worth checking it isn't fixed already from the previous time, if it's an "again" and that previous fix was after April. I'll just shut up now until I get xorg-server-1.5 stuff on my geode system
 [14:47:36]  <CosmicPenguin> the previous issue was several years ago
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[15:30:28]  <cjb> ajax: if you get python tracebacks from jhbuild autobuild, you'll want to svn up -r1880 in your jhbuild dir.
 [15:30:46]  <ajax> no, right now i'm getting kernel BUGs
 [15:30:54]  <cjb> woo.
 [15:30:58]  <ajax> it's all quite thrilling
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[15:35:10]  <cjb> ajax: once you get past that, you'll also want the .jhbuildrc from http://www.x.org/wiki/JhBuildInstructions
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[15:35:18]  <cjb> and you might add os.environ['MAKEFLAGS'] = '-j4' to the bottom.
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[15:41:53]  <jbarnes> yay for gtk probing all outputs, all the time
 [15:42:04]  <jbarnes> </sarcasm>
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[15:49:01]  <daniels> jbarnes: not even my hardware is that bad that i have to flicker for probing
 [15:50:17]  <jbarnes> we only flicker now because we have more outputs that crtcs and steal them sometimes for detection
 [15:52:16]  <daniels> oh, that makes it better! :P
 [15:53:06]  <ajax> you should just return StatusUnknown instead
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[15:53:46]  <ajax> or at least, once you have as many StatusConnected as pipes, just return StatusUnknown instead of blinkyprobing.
 [15:54:00]  <jbarnes> yeah that would be easy
 [15:54:11]  <ajax> it's not like you can _possibly_ do a right thing in that scenario anyway
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[16:15:07]  <ajax> yay, tinderbox machine somewhat working now.
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[16:18:54]  <cjb> ajax: hm. ./configure: line 3392: 13103 Segmentation fault
 [16:19:03]  <ajax> yeah.
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[16:22:00]  <ajax> i don't have complete confidence in the --cache-file stuff
 [16:22:41]  <ajax> i turned it off and now i make it past fontsproto
 [16:23:30]  <CosmicPenguin> warren: OLPC might soon be bothering you for a special Geode driver with this diff:
 [16:23:44]  <CosmicPenguin> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-geode.git;a=commit;h=f89f6d8004a0ae0ae7826f72a1058d26e9e0217a
 [16:23:56]  <CosmicPenguin> Just letting you know that I am going to make a real 2.10.1 release with that and the fix for the DDC thing on the mailing list
 [16:24:05]  <CosmicPenguin> sometime next week
 [16:24:17]  <ajax> hmm.  wonder if kvm's smp support is usable.
 [16:25:33]  <ajax> which is to say, if it'll actually use multiple cores on the host
 [16:26:10]  <ajax> looks like it.
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[16:35:56]  <ajax> and it does seem to help, so, yay for that
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[16:40:53]  <drago01> ajax: well it uses hw virt so it more or less "passes" the cpu(s) to the guest
 [16:41:56]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: poke me when 2.10.1 is out, I'll rebuild
 [16:45:30]  <CosmicPenguin^ oky
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[17:00:38]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: that was some mightily enthusiastic coding.  cheers!
 [17:00:57]  <CosmicPenguin> I very much enjoy deleting code
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[17:01:34]  <tjaalton> svu_: sorry I was at a concert.. still around?
 [17:04:38]  <tjaalton> anyway, if you wouldn't mind having a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255372
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[17:05:08]  <tjaalton> svu_: I'm a bit lost with this stuff, so I'd like to know who to blame :)
 [17:05:19]  <tjaalton> er, not about me being lost, but the bug
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[17:59:42]  <agd5f> dberkholz: take 3 on dvi ddc :)
 [18:02:35]  <dberkholz^ where's it at?
 [18:03:38]  <agd5f^ git master
 [18:04:18]  * dberkholz tries
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[18:05:55]  <dberkholz> agd5f: DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
 [18:06:39]  <agd5f^ argh!
 [18:07:03]  <dberkholz^ isn't driver work fun and exciting? =)
 [18:07:20]  <agd5f^ so much hate for rs4xx chips
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[18:37:14]  <tormod> jbarnes: do you have a bug reference for that gtk probing and resulting flicker?
 [18:37:40]  <jbarnes> hm, I don't, there might be one filed though
 [18:37:45]  <jbarnes> tormod: are you seeing it with current git?
 [18:38:13]  <tormod> yes, since some weeks I guess
 [18:38:28]  <jbarnes> I fixed one of the issues in the last few days
 [18:38:35]  <tormod> it's the same flicker as xrandr -q gives, right?
 [18:38:44]  <jbarnes> should be yeah
 [18:39:03]  <tormod> I see this on a radeon rv515 but not on a rv410
 [18:39:19]  <jbarnes^ oh hey no fair I thought you were talking about intel :)
 [18:39:30]  <jbarnes> agd5f can fix up your radeon flicker
 [18:39:50]  <tormod> what exactly is gtk doing all the time?=
 [18:40:14]  <jbarnes> it's probing all the outputs everytime a gtk app starts
 [18:40:29]  <tormod> that sounds so useful?
 [18:41:35]  <tormod> is gtk asking the server about screens, and the server probes outputs?
 [18:41:43]  <jbarnes> right
 [18:41:56]  <tormod> then I would say the server is dumb
 [18:42:21]  <jbarnes> there's more to it than that
 [18:42:24]  <tormod> or driver
 [18:42:38]  <jbarnes> the driver shouldn't cause flicker
 [18:42:55]  <jbarnes> but we should probably be better about being able to communicate screen layout changes to apps
 [18:43:10]  <jbarnes> since gtk doesn't have a way of getting layout other than asking the server at this point, that's what it does
 [18:43:20]  <jbarnes> rather than some notification mechanism
 [18:43:25]  <jbarnes> which would be nicer
 [18:43:42]  <tormod> ok, I will bug agd5f about that. But the server could cache the screen layout until it changes I guess.
 [18:43:54]  <jbarnes> but it won't know if it changes unless it asks the driver :)
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[18:44:21]  <tormod> aha
 [18:45:21]  <tormod> agd5f: is the xrandr -q flicker a known bug?
 [18:45:50]  <agd5f^ it's not a bug, the screen will flicker when it does load detect depending on what crtcs are available
 [18:46:26]  <tormod^ well there must be a bug somewhere :)
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[18:48:20]  <agd5f> tormod: if you have nothing attached to your vga port, the screen will do load detect if ddc fails, to do that it needs to steal the crtc.
 [18:49:17]  <agd5f> I guess there are two bugs.  apps should reprobe  the ouputs on start up, and the driver could do some things to avoid flicker in cases where ouput are shared and such
 [18:49:22]  <tormod^ I think I have something in the VGA but nothing in the DVI
 [18:49:28]  <agd5f> s/should/should not/
 [18:50:09]  <agd5f> tormod: does whatever tou have on the vga have an edid?
 [18:50:29]  <tormod> well the apps just asks the server, they don't ask for full reprobing really?
 [18:50:52]  <tormod> agd5f: I think so , it's a BenQ LCD.
 [18:51:20]  <agd5f^ there was some discussion about how to improve things earlier this week on the ml
 [18:51:55]  <agd5f> or maybe last week
 [18:52:40]  <tormod> good to know. but there's no way the radeon driver can stop flicker then (like intel was fixed)?
 [18:54:13]  <tormod> yes, there is EDID ( the machine is not here, but I found an old log)
 [18:55:48]  <tormod> agd5f: btw, is it the probing that makes VT switching 3-4 seconds on this rv410 laptop?
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[18:56:54]  <agd5f> tormod: no
 [18:57:10]  <agd5f> bug 16890
 [18:57:36]  <agd5f> thing is, I don't know if that sleep is needed or not, I guess it wouldn't hurt to remove it
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[18:59:26]  <tormod> I thanks, I'll try it later.
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[19:48:17]  <ilikenwf> whilest trying to build the 1.5 git branch, i ran into an error...
 [19:48:20]  <ilikenwf> any suggestions regarding it?
 [19:48:27]  <ilikenwf> osdep.h:95:5: error: missing binary operator before token "("
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[19:51:33]  <ajax> ilikenwf: you need a newer version of xtrans
 [19:51:45]  <ilikenwf> thanks
 [19:51:50]  <ilikenwf> i will have to build from git
 [19:51:54]  <ilikenwf> i appreciate your help
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[19:53:58]  <ajax> np
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[20:40:48]  <ilikenwf> riddle me this, please...when i build libXtst, why does it not build an XInput.h file? I need it to compile xserver, but it's just not there
 [20:41:39]  <ilikenwf> rather, inputproto
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[20:41:46]  <ilikenwf> that happens when i build inputproto
 [20:44:07]  <ilikenwf> kinda annoying since i'm trying to build xorg-server
 [20:44:16]  <whot^ XInput.h is part of libXi
 [20:44:30]  <ilikenwf^ i gotta stop staying up so late. thanks
 [20:45:05]  <ilikenwf> i tried building it from git with errors...
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[20:47:26]  <ilikenwf> i'm an idiot. nevermind.
 [20:47:50]  <whot^ no, libXtst should rely on Xi and not let you past the configure. that's a bug
 [20:48:13]  <ilikenwf^ i just discovered that
 [20:48:24]  <ilikenwf> and also found that my version of Xi is old anyway
 [20:48:29]  <ilikenwf> there's the problem
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[21:09:41]  <whot> ilikenwf: fixed
 [21:10:51]  <ilikenwf^ thanks...although now i'm getting an error complaining about xcbgen not being in my python path...it's installed and all, and should be there
 [21:13:34]  <whot^ there's a readme in xcbproto that explains what you have to do
 [21:15:38]  <ilikenwf> i know how to do it, but for some reason my path is messed up...
 [21:19:16]  <ilikenwf> wait..xcb-util wasn't installed...perhaps i should go to bed, i'm making mistakes
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[21:53:01]  <whot> uhm. what's the preferred method of storing floating points in atoms?
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[22:30:51]  <ilikenwf> I'm now getting the following error, and have no idea what provides the following: dri_interface.h: No such file or directory
 [22:30:58]  <ilikenwf> help?
 [22:34:29]  <cjb> mesa/libgl does
 [22:34:43]  <ilikenwf> i already built that
 [22:35:02]  <cjb> you should pass --with-mesa-source= to the directory you built it in, I guess
 [22:35:07]  <cjb> during xserver configure
 [22:35:08]  <ilikenwf> i did
 [22:35:10]  <ilikenwf> are you sure it isn't x11proto?
 [22:36:32]  <cjb> not sure, no.
 [22:36:37]  <ilikenwf> hrmph
 [22:36:48]  <ilikenwf> i'll ry x11proto first, as it's smaller
 [22:36:56]  <cjb> thunk:cjb~ % sudo dpkg -S /usr/include/GL/internal/dri_interface.h            
[22:36:56]  <cjb> mesa-common-dev: /usr/include/GL/internal/dri_interface.h
 [22:37:12]  <cjb> pullcord:cjb~ % sudo rpm -q --whatprovides /usr/include/GL/internal/dri_interface.h
 [22:37:12]  <cjb> mesa-libGL-devel-7.1-0.37.fc10.x86_64
 [22:37:30]  <ilikenwf> weird
 [22:37:50]  <ilikenwf> well...actually i'm on archlinux, and perhaps the packaging schemes are a bit different there
 [22:38:53]  <spstarr> heh cjb you're mixed up in distros ;)
 [22:39:01]  <cjb> shrug.  I'm just using it for hints.
 [22:39:09]  <cjb> spstarr: I figured he was likely to be using one or the other, but apparently not :)
 [22:39:16]  <spstarr> hehe
 [22:39:31]  <ilikenwf> i try to be different
 [22:39:36]  <ilikenwf> gentoo would've been closer
 [22:39:42]  <spstarr> always have distros ready, like a swiss army knife ;)
 [22:39:55]  <ilikenwf> i'm not as much of a n00b as you think, i'm just tireed
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[22:42:13]  <ilikenwf> i'm basically makign pkgbuilds for myself and other people so i can work hard once and be lazy from here on out with new xorg releases
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[23:04:08]  <ilikenwf> so, which git on xorg's site provides dri_interface.h?
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----- [2008-08-08] -----
 [00:17:38]  <math_b> Sorry, but it's really late here: am I dreaming or in _XkbSetNamedIndicator (xkb/xkb.c), sli is used without any initialization ?
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[00:18:22]  <math_b> my xserver just crashed there, and _that_ was not a dream
 [00:27:46]  <math_b> whot: git-blame says you loose here: 7e45c80204e06562d4475741caea65bc8758f3c7
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[00:43:46]  <whot> math_b: ouch. thanks for that
 [00:47:37]  <math_b^ no problem :)
 [00:49:00]  <whot^ http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/0001-xkb-actually-initialise-sli-before-using-it.patch
 [00:49:06]  <whot> does that fix it?
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[08:22:24]  <svu_> tjaalton, ok, I'll have a look
 [08:22:58]  <tjaalton^ excellent, thanks
 [08:23:21]  <tjaalton> are there generic debugging docs regarding keymap issues?
 [08:24:05]  <svu_> daniels, ping?
 [08:24:30]  <svu_> tjaalton, not really. other than "use xev and look at xkeyboard-config files"
 [08:26:28]  <tjaalton> ok
 [08:26:37]  <svu_^ my wild guess is something was changed in evdev driver
 [08:26:43]  <svu_> regarding keycodes
 [08:26:54]  <tjaalton> it's strange how the key maps to Romaji now..
 [08:26:56]  <tjaalton> right
 [08:29:19]  <svu_^ just out of curiosity - if you change layout from brazilian to, say, US - would it change anything?
 [08:30:08]  <tjaalton^ I'd have to ask the reporter
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[14:04:07]  <warren> Q-FUNK: any idea when the upstream geode release?
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[14:25:35]  <Q-FUNK> warren: which one?
 [14:27:55]  <Q-FUNK> probably september 15.
 [14:28:31]  <warren> huh
 [14:28:43]  <warren> Q-FUNK: whatever .1 Jordan was talking about for the OLPC fix
 [14:29:01]  <Q-FUNK> no, that wasn't for the OLPC
 [14:29:35]  <Q-FUNK> 2.10.1 was to fix DDC probing on GX2 and an other small bug he found
 [14:30:16]  <Q-FUNK> if you're talking about enhanced scaling, it goes to 2.12.0 with the RandR 1.2 port.
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[14:38:12]  <Q-FUNK> according to CP|home's plan, 2.10.x will become a backport fork for X server 1.4, while 2.12.0 and newer will only support X server 1.5 and newer.
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[17:43:23]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[18:36:23]  <ilikenwf> stupid queston, but which package provides do-not-use-config.h.in?
 [18:37:29]  <daniels^ it is not meant to ever be used, hence the name.  why do you need it?
 [18:37:46]  <ilikenwf> autogen gives me this: configure.ac:36: required file `include/do-not-use-config.h.in' not found
 [18:38:11]  <alanc> it's in the xserver git repo, but only used to placate configure
 [18:38:26]  <ilikenwf> i wonder why it's missing...
 [18:38:27]  <ilikenwf> weird
 [18:38:31]  <daniels^ autoheader hasn't been run
 [18:38:41]  <ilikenwf> d'oh
 [18:38:42]  <ilikenwf> dir
 [18:38:44]  <ilikenwf> whoops
 [18:38:47]  <ilikenwf> wrong text box
 [18:38:48]  <ilikenwf> hehe
 [18:39:44]  <ilikenwf> i guess that'd kinda be a good idea...to run autoheader, that is
 [18:39:52]  <ilikenwf> heh
 [18:40:15]  <daniels> autoreconf should do that itself
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[18:40:35]  <ilikenwf> well, it's not
 [18:40:50]  <daniels> which distro are you using, and which version of autotools? (autoconf, automake, autoheader.)
 [18:40:54]  <ilikenwf> i probably have something outdated somewhere
 [18:40:57]  <ilikenwf> i'm using archlinux
 [18:41:03]  <daniels> i know nothing about arch
 [18:41:11]  <daniels> it's not an error i've ever heard of, though
 [18:41:14]  <ilikenwf> pretty much like gentoo
 [18:41:21]  <ilikenwf> just not all source based
 [18:42:10]  <ilikenwf> looks like i don't have autoheader...and it's not provided by my distro...gotta build
 [18:42:40]  <ilikenwf> nevermind
 [18:42:46]  <ilikenwf> idk what's going on
 [18:42:51]  <ilikenwf> it worked yesterday
 [18:43:49]  <ilikenwf> i'll figure it out
 [18:43:51]  <ilikenwf> forget ti
 [18:45:03]  <ilikenwf> we use automated scripts...i'm writing them for xorg-git...and i fixed it
 [18:45:52]  <ilikenwf> i wasn't running ./configure after autogen
 [18:46:03]  <ilikenwf> which isn't usually necessary
 [18:46:09]  <ilikenwf> but with this many options, i guess it was
 [18:46:16]  <daniels> erm, shouldn't be
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[18:46:24]  <ilikenwf> it works this way
 [18:46:27]  <ilikenwf> it didn't the other
 [18:46:30]  <ilikenwf> not cool
 [18:46:31]  <daniels> bonghits.
 [18:46:41]  <daniels> autogen.sh runs configure right after autoreconf
 [18:46:44]  <ilikenwf> i know
 [18:46:57]  <ilikenwf> but i guess something's not running autoheader unless i re-run configure
 [18:47:29]  <daniels> awesome
 [18:48:09]  <ilikenwf> but it's building now so i don't care
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[18:48:46]  <ilikenwf> daniels:thanks for at least trying to help
 [18:49:17]  <ilikenwf> i wonder if the onesecondx stuff from fedora will ever be included upstream
 [18:49:30]  <daniels> np
 [18:49:40]  <daniels> and yes, it will be.  already has been in almost all cases, afaict.
 [18:50:05]  <ilikenwf> so it's in 1.5
 [18:50:09]  <ilikenwf> sweet
 [18:50:14]  <ilikenwf> that's what i'm making
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[18:51:35]  <ilikenwf> well, i guess i'll play with the zen kernel while this is building
 [18:51:37]  <ilikenwf> i love it
 [18:51:48]  <ilikenwf> i can build two or three things at once, and use firefox, watch video
 [18:51:49]  <ilikenwf> heh
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[19:03:04]  <anholt> cjb: drm-gem merged to master, hopefully tinderbox will clear up now
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[22:06:56]  <ilikenwf> well
 [22:07:00]  <ilikenwf> i got things built
 [22:07:14]  <ilikenwf> and it b0rked my kde installation, and for some reason my network daemon dosen't work
 [22:07:20]  <ilikenwf> furthermore, not much else works either
 [22:07:22]  <ilikenwf>
[22:07:34]  <ilikenwf> current git sources for the 1.5 branch i do not advise use of
 [22:07:54]  <illdred> heh. I'm attempting to build that now.
 [22:08:20]  <ilikenwf> you may want to make a partimage backup
 [22:08:24]  <ilikenwf> before actually using it
 [22:08:33]  <ilikenwf> heh
 [22:08:48]  <Lrrr> xorg can erase data?
 [22:09:06]  <ilikenwf> i think it corrupted part of my fs when i had to hard reboot a few times
 [22:09:26]  <ilikenwf> whatever happened, it sucks
 [22:09:32]  <ilikenwf> i gotta reinstall arch
 [22:10:18]  <ilikenwf> i guess 1.4 rc6 is still the way to go
 [22:11:33]  <ilikenwf> of course, i built all the modules and drivers from git too, those could be the cause
 [22:11:38]  <ilikenwf> the server ran, just locked up
 [22:11:50]  <ilikenwf> when i rebooted, wicd didn't work, and all my kde prefs were gone
 [22:12:16]  <Lrrr> you probably got quite unlucky
 [22:12:20]  <Lrrr> which remind me
 [22:12:35]  <Lrrr> I should remake my backup script...
 [22:12:43]  <ilikenwf> i'm using archlinux, and i wrote the pkgbuilds for this
 [22:12:54]  <ilikenwf> so i guess i get the crap end of things until i perfect them
 [22:14:35]  <ilikenwf> i just tar up etc and home and i'm good to go
 [22:14:53]  <ilikenwf> the arch kiss concept makes it simple to reinstall and drop your old prefs in place
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[04:08:48]  <Q-FUNK> hmm.  db replied with an ack on updating keys, but git-clone user@fd.o asks me for a passwd.
 [04:09:23]  <daniels> use -v -v -v to see which key you're trying to use
 [04:09:33]  <daniels> (also, propagation takes 8 minutes)
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[04:10:28]  <Q-FUNK> ah
 [04:10:49]  <Q-FUNK> propagation, it probably is, since I deleted my old dsa keys and generated a new rsa key.
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[05:07:51]  <osiris__> hi. I'm preparing a list of people hanging on dri related channels. please post me your name, email, location and timezone or put it by yourself in http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/WhosWho thank you
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[09:49:14]  <svu> daniels, any chance to get "explanations" from setxkbmap any time soon?
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[11:36:35]  <dagb> Are there any online notes about 'shatter' anywhere?
 [11:53:47]  <ajax> only if this channel is logged somewhere
 [11:54:52]  <ajax> there's a basic theory outline in the comment at the top of http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~ajax/xserver-shatter/tree/randr/rrmx.c?h=shatter
 [11:55:36]  <ajax> i have a newer branch than that i should push, turns out it really doesn't belong in randr/
 [11:55:56]  <ajax> but the gist is the same
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[12:11:26]  <daniels> xserver in 'code where it doesn't belong' shocker
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[12:32:58]  <dagb> ajax: 'shatter' == 'multimonitor aware xserver meant to replace xinerama and remove limitations of xinerama'  Did I get that right?
 [12:35:53]  <ajax> it's not really replacing xinerama.  and it's not really about multiple monitors
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[12:36:04]  <ajax> (although that's certainly one application)
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[12:36:59]  <ajax> at the most basic level, it's about the ability to back an X pixmap with more than one chunk of memory
 [12:39:53]  <ajax> so in the randr case, you can shatter the root window's pixmap.  if you do this, now you can have each crtc pointing to one of the shards, which means your display size is limited to (pitch limit * number of crtcs) instead of just (pitch limit)
 [12:40:42]  <ajax> but there are other places you could use it too
 [12:41:24]  <ajax> exa, for example, could shatter pixmaps that are larger than the accelerator's pitch limit, so you'd still get acceleration on very large pixmaps
 [12:44:13]  <malc0> anyone able to point me to a spec on the structure of EDID revision 1.0 (originally in the 1994 DDC 1.0 spec)?
 [12:46:30]  <ajax> sadly not.
 [12:46:44]  <ajax> i've got the 1.3 and 1.4 specs, and they describe (kinda) the changes since 1.0
 [12:46:59]  <ajax> so it's vaguely possible to work backwards from that
 [12:47:32]  <malc0> so, I'm wondering if the standard timings field changed from 1.0 to 1.1
 [12:48:26]  <malc0> I've got a monitor which has a standard timing of (0x81, 0x68), which currently gets parsed as 1280x960@100Hz
 [12:50:10]  <malc0> not that it's necessarily a good indicator of things, but the nvidia blob parses it as 1280x960@68Hz, which would make far more sense
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[13:23:24]  <ajax> malc0: it didn't change between 1.0 and 1.1.
 [13:28:58]  <ajax> the refresh rate is the low six bits of the second byte according to edid 1.3, so 100Hz is correct (0x68 & 0x3f == 40d, 40d + 60d == 100d)
 [13:29:19]  <ajax> but it's entirely possible that 1.0 defined it as the low five bits
 [13:29:45]  <malc0^ yeah, that's what I was wondering
 [13:30:54]  <malc0> currently the xserver extrapolates that I can support 1920x1440 and 1024x768 doublescan, which is kinda wrong
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[14:07:42]  <vitamin> hi, have an xinput question/problem. The device says it's in relative mode. But I'm getting absolute coords from it
 [14:07:49]  <vitamin> Any ideas why that could be?
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[17:20:53]  <notoy> hola
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[17:24:29]  <daniels> svu: erm, not sure tbh, depends on work
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[23:26:35]  <bradd___> Hi, i'm using nvidia proprietary but would like to develop opengl. Am I fine with installing mesa dev stuff even though i'm using nvidia drivers?
 [23:28:16]  <ajax> if you just want to write an opengl app, then you don't need mesa.  nvidia's drivers come with an opengl implementatin.
 [23:28:54]  <bradd___> ok, i'll install nvidia dev stuff then.. thanks
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[03:01:16]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:36:37]  <tjaalton> xset are N does not seem to have any effect when using evdev
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[03:41:27]  <whot> tjaalton: 1.5 or master?
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[03:42:16]  <tjaalton> whot: 1.5
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[03:42:29]  <whot> tjaalton: and it does work with kbd?
 [03:43:07]  <tjaalton^ hmm, let me check, althoug I'd say so since some people have issues with the rate being either way too slow or fast with evdev and worked fine before
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[03:44:04]  <whot> tjaalton: i just had a quick peek at the code, and if xkb is enabled, it doesn't seem to be calling into the driver anyway.
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[03:47:01]  <tjaalton> whot: hum, no change without evdev
 [03:48:07]  <tjaalton> so xkb is equally broken
 [03:48:14]  <tjaalton> um
 [03:48:22]  <tjaalton> make that kbd :)
 [03:49:01]  <whot^ yeah, because that stuff is supposed to be handled in the server (xkb)
 [03:49:20]  <tjaalton> right..
 [03:50:25]  <whot^ and I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is caused by the VCK-device separation. but that's a guess
 [03:50:38]  <tjaalton> heh :)
 [03:51:37]  <whot^ hmm. although that shouldn't matter, it seems to traverse all devices... something else is broken then.
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[08:18:10]  <wereHamster> uhm. can I use realloc() (the libc function) on pointers allocated by libX11?
 [08:19:32]  <wereHamster> There is no XRealloc(), and I found XtRealloc(), but I'm not sure if I can use the Xt function
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[09:30:00]  <daniels> wereHamster: Xrealloc isn't good enough?
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[09:56:20]  <ajax> okay kids, help me out.
 [09:56:32]  <ajax> where the hell are te DRM_BO_* defines supposed to come from?
 [09:57:09]  <ajax> i see them in drm_objects.h, but that's not an installed header
 [09:57:26]  <ajax> and intel 2.4.0 won't build without them
 [09:59:30]  <stillunknown^ from drm.h, which is part of libdrm
 [10:01:02]  <ajax> aspartame:/redhat/rpms/libdrm/devel/libdrm-20080801% grep -l define.DRM_BO **/*.h
 [10:01:05]  <ajax> linux-core/drm_objects.h
 [10:01:08]  <Santi> perhaps similarly, I can not compile glxdriswrast.c and xserver likely because of a missing headerfile...
 [10:01:10]  <ajax> so unless that's changed in git in the last 10 days...
 [10:01:48]  <stillunknown> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/drm/tree/shared-core/drm.h
 [10:01:50]  <stillunknown> line 680
 [10:02:45]  <jcristau> intel 2.4.0 built without them here, but then i only have libdrm 2.3.1, so the driver doesn't try to use the ttm stuff
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[10:10:56]  <Santi> I get a compile error with current git version of xserver, for glxdriswrast.c, anyone able to help me out?
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[10:26:26]  <MrCooper> Santi: maybe if you provide the error output
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[11:45:06]  <Santi> MrCooper: whole bunch of variables/defines seem not to be defined in glxdriswrast
 [11:45:49]  <Santi> glxdriswrast.c:68: error: expected ':', ',', ';', '}' or '__attribute__' before '*' token
 [11:45:50]  <Santi> In function '__glXDRIdrawableCopySubBuffer':
 [11:45:50]  <Santi> glxdriswrast.c:118: error: '__GLXDRIscreen' has no member named 'copySubBuffer'
 [11:45:52]  <Santi> etc..
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[11:48:06]  <Santi> where should __DRIswrastExtension be defined?
 [11:48:42]  <MrCooper> $prefix/include/GL/internal/dri_interface.h
 [11:49:02]  <MrCooper> that needs to be from recent mesa Git master
 [11:49:15]  <Santi> got mesa from git
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[11:49:42]  <MrCooper> maybe it's picking up a stale one from driproto
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[11:50:24]  <Santi> managed to find the correct one previously
 [11:51:10]  <Santi> driproto or dri2proto?
 [11:51:26]  <MrCooper> what I wrote
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[11:51:34]  <Santi> :-)
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[12:21:17]  <Santi> MrCooper: I changed the include to an absolute one and disabled dr2, that made it compile. thx
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[12:40:49]  <math_b> Is there any reason for the possibility to compile without SMART_SCHEDULE ?
 [12:43:17]  <daniels> not anymore
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[12:43:50]  <math_b> daniels: I'm cooking a path then
 [12:44:02]  <math_b> patch
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[13:07:26]  <anholt> ajax: the 845 only has one pipe.  what were you trying to do with that quirk?
 [13:07:47]  <anholt> disable crtc disable entirely?
 [13:10:59]  <ajax> the report was along the lines of "845 occasionally just goes black when switching modes"
 [13:14:00]  <ajax> i can certainly imagine that disabling the pipe might not work right on chips that only have the one.  i'm not really married to the fix though, if you have a better idea what's going on there.
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[13:21:55]  <math_b> removal of SMART_SCHEDULE conditionals: http://pastebin.com/m342adbc
 [13:22:09]  <math_b> compile tested on linux
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[13:46:57]  <vignatti> math_b: with this one seems that -dumbSched option will exist anyway, right?
 [13:47:25]  <math_b^ yep
 [13:47:30]  <vignatti> the option to use the old sched should exists until someone take a good look at the X scheduler
 [13:47:50]  <jcristau^ yes, SMART_SCHEDULE was defined to 1 unconditionally anyway
 [13:47:53]  <ajax> until gdb can do sensible things in the face of the smart scheduler, i will require that -dumbSched exist
 [13:48:29]  <vignatti> hmm okay, nice
 [13:48:30]  <math_b> yes you can still pass -dumbSched to disable the smart scheduler
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[13:48:58]  <vignatti> but the point is that we don't have an effective scheduler right now
 [13:49:03]  <vignatti> clients can block each other
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[13:49:20]  <vignatti> Just try to execute a `x11perf -getimagexy500` plus play a video to see. x11perf eats all the X process.
 [13:49:21]  <math_b> and we still check that we have SIGALRM at compile time (SMART_SCHEDULE_POSSIBLE)
 [13:49:44]  <vignatti> the funny thing is that -dumbSched gives a better result than with the _smart_ scheduler :)
 [13:50:03]  <ajax> getimage is sort of intentionally broken though
 [13:50:09]  <vignatti> maybe would be wiser to give a tiny quantum here for each client
 [13:50:15]  <math_b^ my patch hasn't the pretension of fixing any bug, it's just some janitorial stuff
 [13:50:22]  <ajax> the reply code is completely geared around sending small packets
 [13:53:16]  <ajax> math_b: applied, thanks.
 [13:53:24]  <math_b^ thanks
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[14:30:09]  <anderco> where does the DPI gets set when using the intel driver for a 855GM chip?
 [14:30:21]  <anderco> log says it is using default (96, 96) but
 [14:30:30]  <anderco> xdpyinfo gives 112x968
 [14:32:49]  <anholt> sounds like your monitor has broken edid data.  submit a bug with the xorg log and we can quirk your monitor.
 [14:33:14]  <anholt> (assuming that your monitor in the edid data reports that it's 1/10th as tall as it should be -- physical measurements of the monitor in the bug would be appreciated)
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[14:34:22]  <anderco> anholt: it already has a quirk. what is odd is that vesa sets the correct dpi on xf86SetDpi
 [14:34:57]  <anholt> a quirk -- does it have the quirk in question?
 [14:35:25]  <anderco^ "EDID quirk: Detailed timings give sizes in cm"
 [14:38:43]  <anholt> sounds like time to open a bug and someone will have to trace through and find who's picking up an unquirked value
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[14:39:08]  <anderco> anholt: ok
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[15:57:32]  <krh> argh, what's this sysconf/Xtrans breakage...
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[16:01:51]  <ajax> i thought i'd sorted that by now.
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[16:02:01]  <ajax> at least in git.  should probably update what we've got in rawhide.
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[16:05:43]  <krh> ajax: I think I just need to update xtrans, but maybe the xserver configure should check for that
 [16:06:37]  <ajax> probably, yeah.
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[16:21:13]  <jg> keithp: remind me not to get struck by lightning....
 [16:21:40]  <cjb^ my wife's dad's foot got struck by lightning
 [16:22:49]  <cjb> it seems like you're fine if it hits you below the chest.  above the chest and your heart stops, but will start again with CPR, and in the head is not good.
 [16:23:13]  <cjb> but I was surprised to hear that most occasions of lightning-hits-human aren't going to kill you if there's someone else around.
 [16:36:22]  <jg^ in this case, the damage so far is one tivo, one router box, one cable modem, one gigabit switch, and 2 ethernet interfaces.
 [16:36:50]  <cjb> but did it hit the tivo above or below the chest?  :)
 [16:37:54]  <CosmicPenguin> If our DVR died, I think my wife would fly up to Olympus herself to smack Zeus
 [16:38:17]  <jg> above....
 [16:38:41]  <jg> the tivo wasn't being used; just made my regular land line stop working until it was unplugged.
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[17:00:36]  <Ferocanis> compiling xorg-server from git dies for me on dri2.c, am i missing something?
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[17:00:58]  <Ferocanis> i get errors like dri2.c:60: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'drmBO'
 [17:00:58]  <Ferocanis> dri2.c: In function 'DRI2ScreenAllocEvent':
 [17:00:58]  <Ferocanis> dri2.c:86: error: 'struct _DRI2Screen' has no member named 'buffer'
 [17:01:20]  <Ferocanis> and a few dozen more "has no member named" ones
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[17:03:10]  <airlied> Ferocanis: --disable-dri2
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[17:08:53]  <jasonlife> I have multi-head configuration with onboard intel and Rage card.. During the X start I got "shmget(lowmem) error: Invalid argument" error message and "out of sync" on rage head..
 [17:09:13]  <jasonlife> Is this error related to shared memory?
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[17:15:38]  <Ferocanis> airlied, thanks, will that hurt my chances of getting 3d acceleration working?
 [17:16:59]  <airlied^ nope
 [17:17:20]  <Ferocanis> good =D, thanks again airlied
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[21:54:29]  <cjb> tinderbox is back now, sorry for the downtime.
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[22:15:57]  <ilikenwf> i'm building myself so don't try to tell me to install pacages, fyi, but i have a problem
 [22:16:03]  <ilikenwf> i have EVERYTHING i need built
 [22:16:09]  <ilikenwf> but i'm getting the following error:
 [22:16:16]  <ilikenwf> (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_tls_Context)
 [22:16:21]  <ilikenwf> whoops
 [22:16:23]  <ilikenwf> wrong past
 [22:16:24]  <ilikenwf> e
 [22:16:30]  <ilikenwf> this is what I get:
[22:16:54]  <ilikenwf> (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so : no such file or directory
 [22:17:00]  <ilikenwf> so something didn't build it
 [22:17:18]  <ilikenwf> what option does this something require? or, did my script just not copy it to where it needs to go? (archlinux pkgbuild)
 [22:17:43]  <ilikenwf> i've tried google but everything there is about ppc's
 [22:20:39]  <ilikenwf> anyone here, or am i lagging?
 [22:27:08]  <ilikenwf> whot: you'd probably know...sorry to ping you, but one quick question
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[22:32:39]  <ilikenwf> i think it's this commit 1087cc61b3776f4cdc991dcd95ee59dbd26307f3
 [22:36:55]  <ilikenwf> what option tells the compiler to build swrast_dri.so?
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[22:43:12]  <whot> ilikenwf: its in mesa
 [22:44:33]  <ilikenwf_^ i figured that out
 [22:44:52]  <ilikenwf_> i guess i need to add --with-dri-drivers="swrast,nouveau"
 [22:45:12]  * cjb wonders why dri2.c isn't compiling.
 [22:45:34]  <whot> ilikenwf_: no idea tbh. don't think I ever specified something special
 [22:46:03]  <ilikenwf_> it's not being built or at least, not copied into the pkg i'm building
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[22:53:07]  <ilikenwf_> well...to build mesa, don't i just use autogen, then make config, then make?
 [22:53:19]  <whot^ that's the theory
 [22:53:31]  <ilikenwf_> then i wonder what gives
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[23:00:14]  <ilikenwf_> it's not building anything into /usr/lib/xorg/modules
 [23:00:18]  <ilikenwf_> wtf
 [23:11:27]  <whot^ check /usr/local
 [23:13:48]  <whot> configs/default, change INSTALL_DIR
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[23:18:47]  <ilikenwf_> that's not it, as i have a script dumping it all into a specific directory, then making it into a package
 [23:19:24]  <ilikenwf_> i disabled aiglx
 [23:19:27]  <ilikenwf_> which is stupid
 [23:19:32]  <ilikenwf_> but if it works, it works
 [23:20:39]  <ilikenwf_> i use nvidia
 [23:20:44]  <ilikenwf_> so it shouldn't matter, right?
 [23:21:07]  <ilikenwf_> i may build nouveau someday, but hopefully i can figure this out
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[01:00:12]  <[R]> how hard would it be to add DFP support to the kdrive ati driver?
 [01:01:03]  <airlied> [R]: uggh why?
 [01:02:12]  <[R]> i have a computer hooked to the hdmi on my tv via the dvi output on my ati card... and i get no output during booting... but the xorg ati driver does work... and i'm putting x into my initramfs so i can get output during boot... butg i want o use kdrive... and the ati kdrive driver doesnt work right now... progably because it doesnt support dfp
 [01:03:14]  <airlied> [R]: you'd be better off trying to use kernel modesetting stuff
 [01:03:22]  <airlied> [R]: granted its not 100% finished yet..
 [01:03:28]  <[R]> the what?
 [01:05:46]  <airlied> [R]: we are moving the modesetting code into the kernel, so you could get a console earlier.
 [01:06:01]  <airlied> rather than trying to squeeze X into the initrd
 [01:06:16]  <[R]> i need it to initialize my dvi port just like the ati driver does
 [01:06:18]  <airlied> also kdrive uses the BIOS to modeset I think, so I'd say the chances of it working are 0
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[01:06:24]  <[R]> well if i can get kdrive working... its not squeezing... its pretty small
 [01:06:33]  <airlied> [R]: its just a port of the -ati driver into the kernel mostly.
 [01:06:40]  <[R]> interesting
 [01:06:43]  <[R]> where can i read about it?
 [01:07:02]  <airlied> [R]: some articles on phoronix.com
 [01:07:19]  <airlied> its not fully finished yet though..
 [01:07:27]  <airlied> what graphics card have you got?
 [01:07:31]  <[R]> 9600
 [01:07:35]  <daniels> [R]: kdrive isn't worth it.
 [01:07:40]  <[R]> but its so small
 [01:07:46]  <airlied> you should be able to get a preview in Fedora 10 Beta in a week or two
 [01:07:47]  <daniels> [R]: not that small, really.
 [01:07:59]  <airlied> [R]: its smal lbecause it doesn't support the features.
 [01:08:01]  <airlied> like setting modes
 [01:08:06]  <daniels> [R]: it also doesn't support your card.  at all.
 [01:08:25]  <[R]> kdrive works on my svideo outut
 [01:08:26]  <[R]> output*
 [01:08:31]  <daniels> instead of duplicating all the effort to support stuff in kdrive too, we'd rather just continue making xorg smaller and smaller.
 [01:09:18]  <[R]> airlied: where can i read about it in fedora?
 [01:10:16]  <airlied> [R]: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KernelModesetting
[01:10:21]  <airlied> [R]: as soon as I write the page :)
 [01:11:12]  <[R]> will this let me get a framebuffer on my dvi?
 [01:11:43]  <daniels> on kdrive? no.
 [01:11:50]  <airlied> [R]: yes..
 [01:11:58]  <airlied> it'll get fbcon going on dbvi
 [01:12:01]  <airlied> all oruputs
 [01:12:04]  * [R] ponders
 [01:13:07]  <[R]> airlied: and it'll work with my 9600?
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[01:13:55]  <airlied> [R]: thats the plan..
 [01:14:20]  <airlied> [R]: but it'll be Fedora 10 Beta next week before it all is useable
 [01:14:23]  <[R]> cuz then i can just use a regular framebuffer splash... although rhgb DOES rock my socks off...
 [01:14:38]  <[R]> airlied: will i be able to strip it out of fedora though?
 [01:15:09]  <airlied> [R]: eventually it'll be upstream...
 [01:15:26]  <airlied> [R]: and other distros can take it if they want
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[01:27:57]  <[R]> airlied: http://jglisse.livejournal.com/852.html its that?
 [01:36:01]  <airlied> [R]: that was some initial code, but we've started again since then..
 [01:36:15]  <[R]> is th code in git somewhere?
 [01:36:22]  <airlied> [R]: the only code that might work for 9600 is http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/drm/diff/?h=agd-radeon-ms
 [01:36:25]  <airlied> that branch
 [01:36:34]  <airlied> oops.
 [01:36:41]  <airlied> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/drm/log/?h=agd-radeon-ms
 [01:36:44]  <airlied> that one even
 [01:36:55]  <airlied> we have a bit of merging to do\
 [01:41:06]  <[R]> how do i checkout from a branch on the command line?
 [01:41:12]  <daniels> git checkout
 [01:41:39]  <airlied> git checkout origin/agd-radeon-ms
 [01:42:06]  <[R]> excellet
 [01:42:07]  <[R]> thanks
 [01:42:22]  <[R]> hopefully i won't explode my computer
 [01:45:03]  <airlied> [R]: well I haven't tested it on much, you need fbcon loaded
 [01:45:08]  <airlied> and you need to load radeon with modeset=1
 [01:45:18]  <airlied> it may or may not do anything useful
 [01:45:28]  <[R]> ok
 [01:45:34]  <[R]> i'll probably play with it tomorrow
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[01:55:07]  <[R]> airlied: what about nvidia cards?
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[02:13:39]  <airlied> [R]: the nouveau project is looking at it, they have kernel modesetting support for G80 and above so far I think.
 [02:17:23]  <[R]> i've got a 5500, i'll just stick wit hteh ati
 [02:18:19]  <daniels> (also, nouveau requires xorg.)
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[03:05:22]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:17:40]  <[R]> airlied: i got a null dereference at radeon_gem_mm_init... now to fix
 [03:21:38]  <mjg59+ Where's the opregion patch got to? I can't find it in your drm tree.
 [03:23:02]  <airlied^ I just started putting it in locally this morning..
 [03:23:08]  <mjg59^ Ok, thanks
 [03:27:05]  <airlied^ okay its in drm-next tree
 [03:27:12]  <airlied> I'll ask Linus to pull in a day or two
 [03:27:19]  <mjg59> Ta
 [03:27:36]  <mjg59> I'm seeing it fail to generate interrupts after a suspend/resume cycle, so there may be a followup
 [03:27:57]  <dberkholz^ have you got a t61, by chance?
 [03:28:22]  <mjg59> I do
 [03:28:33]  <mjg59> But this is on a 2510p
 [03:28:50]  <dberkholz^ i'm on 2.6.27-rc2, and my t61 doesn't wake up from sleep. it reboot instead. i'm curious whether anyone else has encountered this
 [03:29:01]  <dberkholz> reboots* too.
 [03:29:06]  <mjg59> Yes, others have seen it
 [03:29:19]  <dberkholz> ok, good deal. thanks for the info
 [03:29:28]  <mjg59> I haven't had time to look into it yet, though
 [03:29:49]  <[R]> airlied: wow... you talk to linus... how cool is that... i wish i talked to linus
 [03:29:51]  <airlied> mjg59: if the interrupty doesn't owrk after susp/resume will anyone notice anything that they wouldn't have before?
 [03:30:05]  <mjg59> Brightness control will fail after resume
 [03:30:13]  <mjg59> Of course, right now brightness control won't work at all
 [03:30:43]  <airlied^ cool so no regression..
 [03:30:50]  <mjg59> I need someone at Intel to actually talk to me about how the interrupts are supposed to work. I can't see at all how I can get something in ISR that isn't in IIR.
 [03:31:40]  <airlied^ race of some sort?
 [03:31:55]  <airlied> int arrives while setting IIR..
 [03:32:44]  <mjg59> Yeah, but then it never seems to get quenched
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[03:33:13]  <mjg59> Even after writing back the status register
 [03:33:24]  <mjg59> Eh. I'll poke it some more.
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[03:38:04]  <chencho> hi, i'am building Xorg 7.3 for mipsel, and i have a problem. I've changed input tty for a pipe like /tmp/kbd_pipe. Well, when i tried to see the events with xev, i can't see the keymap. Any idea?
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[03:38:40]  <chencho> in the xorg i'm using /tmp/kbd_pipe as input device, too
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[03:57:50]  <daniels> chencho: i didn't think the kbd driver let you open arbitrary pipes like that
 [03:57:57]  <daniels> note that kbd requires the ability to ioctl(), etc
 [03:58:15]  <daniels> you probably want something like uinput and evdev
 [04:00:33]  <chencho^ hmm evdev... i going to try with this, thanks
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[04:04:21]  <chencho> daniels: in any case, with xorg 6.8 the pipe works perfectly
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[05:37:27]  <wereHamster> is there an easy way to find the root window (or screen number) when I have a normal window? Or would I need to walk up the window stack until I reach the root?
 [05:40:00]  <MrCooper^ WindowTable[pDraw->pScreen->myNum]
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[07:51:04]  <whot> #ifdef _XSERVER64 xfree(keymap);
 [07:51:04]  <whot> #else XFree(keymap);
 [07:51:04]  <whot> #endif
 [07:51:09]  <whot> this is a joke, right?
 [07:51:26]  <whot> (aside from the newlines lost in the paste)
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[08:01:02]  <daniels> whot: all the more reason to kill it.
 [08:01:38]  <daniels> xnest is the joke where no-one's laughing
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[08:08:17]  <whot> daniels: thought so.
 [08:09:04]  <whot> first glance looking good, gotta go through it in more detail.
 [08:09:34]  <whot> got some patches in the pipe, but nothing worth mentioning yet
 [08:09:39]  <daniels^ k, cool
 [08:10:02]  <daniels> i'll rebase -i to shift those api changes to the front and try to revive some old code that drastically simplified the keymap setting path in particular.
 [08:10:17]  <daniels> you don't mind if it doesn't fast-forward, i hope?
 [08:10:42]  <whot> nah, don't care. i'll be mailing you my patches and then just reset from yours
 [08:11:05]  <daniels> sweet, ta
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[08:28:48]  <nlv22559> is there any alternate to XQueryTree() for geting parent window handle  ???
 [08:32:23]  <daniels^ no
 [08:32:46]  <nlv22559> thanks
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[08:41:42]  <benjsc> daniels: fg
 [08:42:01]  <daniels^ ?
 [08:42:26]  <benjsc^ oops, looks like mkhomedir config option isn't being passed through to where it's needed - any issues with me hardcoding it?
 [08:42:52]  <daniels> certainly seems better than the alternative :)
 [08:43:31]  <benjsc> k, will put the fix on anarchy
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[09:46:31]  *** ----- Log file opened 2008-08-12T11:16 -----
[11:17:03]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[11:17:03]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[11:17:03]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp ademar agd5f aggelos ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc alanc-away anderco anholt antrik b0le_ Battousai bbyer benjsc bernie bgoglin blauzahl bobbens bradd___ bryce cavassin cbrake_away chainsawbike cjb coling CosmicPenguin CP|home crossbuilder cskmax ctyler cworth d3ce1t dagb daniels dante darktama davej dberkholz Dodji dr-xorg Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds dwmw2 eboettcher egbert emmes erikg fijnman glisse gmansi gordonjin gustaf1 hachi halfline Herman illdred Ingmar jasonlife jay-away jbarnes jcristau jg jwelsh keithp kem KWhat_Work leio Lerc libv londo Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin marcheu math_b mjg59 mmc mpr mraudsepp MrCooper mvo ndim nha nlv22559 onestone Ori_B osiris__away otavio pachi PauloZanoni pcpa pedroerp pete__c pjones Plagman_ psyquark Q-FUNK RaoulDuke ribbits rnoland rnoland_ rvalles sangu sebas solarion soren sputnik66 ssp stillunk1own svu sxpert sx|lappy t4bz| TBBle tcoppi_ teuf tibbs tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker wereHamster whot z3ro Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[11:32:05]  <buggs> hoi
 [11:32:24]  <buggs> is there more documentation about xrandr then the man page?
 [11:33:05]  <buggs> Or maybe someone can just explain how an app that changes the mode should later restore the original one
 [11:33:15]  <buggs> especially in a two monitor setup
 [11:33:49]  * buggs looks at keithp
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[11:35:17]  * buggs offers to submit a patch to the man page afterwards
 [11:36:01]  <daniels^ get the current modes, set your new mode, restore the old modes if they haven't changed in the meantime
 [11:36:22]  <daniels> i really hope you're doing that in the context of a display configuration applet or so, though
 [11:36:48]  <buggs> opengl actually
 [11:37:10]  <buggs> but it seems that way i end up with only one monitor in the end
 [11:37:14]  <buggs> the other goes blank
 [11:39:49]  <buggs> daniels, http://rafb.net/p/Cgj52992.html this is how the app does it currently
 [11:45:42]  <daniels> well, you're only using xrandr 1.1, not 1.2
 [11:45:54]  <daniels> you need to walk the list of outputs and get their current status and modes, then restore them to their former glory
 [11:48:14]  <buggs> and with xrandr 1.2?
 [11:48:46]  <buggs> maybe one can just determine which output one is running on and only mess with that?
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[11:51:22]  <jcristau> buggs: yes, though you could be running on more than one
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[11:52:30]  <daniels> buggs: eh, it's gl, scaling is cheap
 [11:52:38]  <daniels> just scale yourself, rather than changing the modes
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[11:52:47]  <buggs> ok i think i know where to get the outputs from reading xrandr.c
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[11:53:37]  <buggs> daniels, most games seem to want to be able to change resolutions
 [11:54:02]  <buggs> probably for speed
 [11:55:11]  <buggs> btw. how did you know that was xrandr 1.1 daniels? how to use 1.2?
 [11:55:37]  <buggs> any pointer to documentation or source code that does it right would be enough
 [11:56:44]  <jcristau> he knows it's 1.1 because it XRRGetScreenInfo is randr 1.1
 [11:57:22]  <daniels> tragically, xrandr.c is probably the best source you'll find
 [11:58:47]  <buggs> how do i know which output i'm on
 [11:59:41]  <jcristau> you look at the position of your window and the enabled crtcs
 [12:00:16]  <buggs> 1.2 is XRRGetScreenResources then?
 [12:01:10]  <buggs> jcristau, no library function for that?
 [12:01:44]  <buggs> should there be one? just asking to understand the implications
 [12:02:04]  <jcristau> library functions wrap wire requests
 [12:02:06]  <jcristau> so no
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[12:24:21]  <cjb> krh, anholt: still hitting http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-August/037915.html
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[12:25:20]  <krh> cjb: ah, hang on
 [12:25:20]  <anholt+ it's getting replaced "soon", but for now --disable-dri2
 [12:27:00]  <krh^ I'm blocking uxa here, which was supposed to be working "now"
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[12:28:57]  <anholt> krh: keithp's the only one that's used uxa so far afaik, and he's on vacation.  I am too, in about 15 minutes.
 [12:29:23]  <krh^ uh oh... for how long?
 [12:29:26]  <anholt> a week
 [12:29:33]  <krh> hmm
 [12:29:59]  <anholt> it should be buildable on top of exa if you need
 [12:30:23]  <krh^ I need uxa though for the pixmaps as bo's feature
 [12:30:39]  <cjb> I don't think I'll pass --disable-dri2 in this case; not much use having a green tinderbox if the server doesn't actually build for anyone.
 [12:30:56]  <cjb> It would be more appropriate for someone to push --disable-dri2 to the default configure flags.
 [12:31:04]  <anholt^ agreed
 [12:31:15]  <anholt> krh: right, I meant do the pixmaps as bos on exa
 [12:31:22]  <anholt> anyway, time to pack up the laptop
 [12:31:45]  <krh^ you back-port keithp's uxa work to exa?
 [12:31:56]  <krh> you *mean
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[12:33:18]  <keithp> krh: uxa isn't working for you?
 [12:33:22]  <keithp> did you disable tiling?
 [12:33:51]  <krh^ I did, which just gives me a black screen and a gpu lock up I think
 [12:34:09]  <krh> I tried a i945 too, which had similar behaviour to i965 w/o tiling
 [12:34:12]  <keithp^ I don't know why
 [12:34:21]  <keithp> did you disable accel?
 [12:34:38]  <keithp> I mean, the accel code is all the same in uxa as exa
 [12:34:39]  <krh^ I forget, did you bring it up on i915 or i945?
 [12:34:42]  <keithp> 915
 [12:34:49]  <keithp> but, there's no magic here; it's just exa code
 [12:34:53]  <krh> right
 [12:35:04]  <keithp> should work on 965 except for composite
 [12:35:23]  <krh> yeah, I would think so... I guess I'll have to debug this a bit
 [12:36:35]  <keithp> I've got a 945 here that I should be able to get running
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[13:08:00]  <jasonlife> As the int10 backend, what is the differences with vm86 and x86emu?  any related document available?
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[13:11:23]  <vignatti> jasonlife: vm86 executes real mode instructions and x86emu is an emulator to execute those
 [13:11:31]  <vignatti> real mode == intel 8086
 [13:12:33]  <jasonlife^ What should I suppose to use ?  I noticed there is "--with-int10" option for server configuration
 [13:12:38]  <vignatti^ the things is that some architectures cannot switch to vm86, so they must rely on the emulator
 [13:12:54]  <vignatti> the server will do this automatically for you.
 [13:13:05]  <vignatti> at least if it isn't broke :)
 [13:13:24]  <ajax> you _should_ use x86emu everywhere
 [13:13:39]  <jasonlife> I compiled my server without "--with-int10", and I got "shmget(lowmem)" error..
 [13:13:39]  <ajax> there are some bugs in vm86 mode that are fundamentally insurmountable
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[13:14:13]  <ajax> but, there are also some bugs in the x86 emulator
 [13:14:17]  <jasonlife> So, i used "--with-int10=x86emu", now there is no error anymore
 [13:14:18]  <ajax> so really you lose either way ;)
 [13:15:11]  <jasonlife^ thanks
 [13:15:17]  <vignatti^ nice. so go for it  :)
 [13:15:25]  <jasonlife^ thanks
 [13:17:43]  <jasonlife> what kinds of bugs x86emu has? I wonder
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[13:18:17]  <jasonlife> I could reproduce the bug and try to fix.. Is there a bugzilla for it?
 [13:19:24]  <ajax> mostly they're to do with either not implementing all the instructions, or implementing them incorrectly.
 [13:20:53]  <ajax> i really do recommend using x86emu though
 [13:21:03]  <ajax> at least there the bugs are potentially fixable
 [13:21:09]  <jasonlife> :)
 [13:21:16]  <jasonlife> OK.. thanks ajax
 [13:21:23]  <vignatti> ajax: btw, you say that the bugs is intrinsically from vm86 or in our implementation?
 [13:21:35]  <ajax^ intrinsically
 [13:21:51]  <vignatti> sigh.
 [13:22:17]  <ajax> the vm86 task runs in virtual address space, just like the kernel
 [13:22:42]  <ajax> in order to have software interrupts (like int 0x10, the vbios entrypoint) work, you have to have the interrupt vector table mapped
 [13:22:57]  <ajax> it lives in the zeroth page of address space
 [13:23:23]  <ajax> you know, the thing that you'd get if dereferencing a NULL pointer _didn't_ fault
 [13:24:09]  <ajax> which means, while the vm86 task is running, any null pointer bugs in the kernel won't be fatal
 [13:24:53]  <ajax> which opens up a rather nasty set of security problems if you're really clever
 [13:25:48]  <ajax> also, some video bioses attempt to put the processor in unreal mode; 4G of address space, but no protection.
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[13:26:06]  <ajax> which means you can directly access, say, the acpi tables
 [13:26:21]  <vignatti> owoo
 [13:26:23]  <ajax> problem is, those live in the high 16M or so of address space
 [13:26:27]  <MrCooper> krh: I think it would be nice to just fix any shortcomings in EXA for using GEM BOs for pixmaps
 [13:26:43]  <ajax> and typically the kernel reserves the high 1G of address space for itself
 [13:26:50]  <vignatti^ if our plan is to reduce xorg's footprint so unfortunately vm86 would be the better chose, isn't it?
 [13:26:55]  <vignatti> considering that x86emu is bigger
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[13:27:16]  <ajax> which means trying to access those tables from vm86 will fault in a spectacularly fatal way
 [13:27:35]  <vignatti> indeed, got it..
 [13:27:36]  <krh> MrCooper: sure, we could just make the pixmap management part of EXA optional or something
 [13:27:58]  <MrCooper^ it already is...
 [13:28:01]  <ajax> vignatti: well, there's a reason it's loadable.  the only real reason you need int10 services is if you don't have native modesetting.
 [13:28:09]  <ajax> (and native posting)
 [13:28:53]  <krh> MrCooper: ok
 [13:29:06]  <MrCooper^ AFAICT the only 'reason' for UXA was the driver CreatePixmap/ModifyPixmapHeader hooks being inadequate
 [13:29:22]  <ajax> vignatti: plus, you need x86emu anyway to post cards on non-x86
 [13:29:25]  <MrCooper> so they should just be fixed
 [13:29:27]  <krh^ that sure did look confusing when I looked at EXA...
 [13:29:41]  <krh> yeah, that's probably a better approach
 [13:29:42]  <ajax> vm86 is really just this little performance hack for x86 that turns out to be a bad idea
 [13:29:52]  <stillunk1own> maybe add creation hints to CreatePixmap if any changes are made :-)
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[13:30:35]  <ajax> smaller footprint is nice and all, but it has to work right first
 [13:31:14]  <vignatti^ the current 'modern' cards can all skip BIOS initialization?
 [13:31:44]  <ajax^ at least in theory we know enough to be able to post intel and ati chips, yeah
 [13:31:45]  <stillunk1own> If you have the replacement for bios code.
 [13:31:49]  <ajax> code's not written, etc.
 [13:31:57]  <vignatti> right
 [13:32:56]  <MrCooper> I'm off for tonight, bbl
 [13:33:03]  <ajax> but, that's fine.  once they do that themselves (or rely on kernel services to do it for them), then they'll just not do xf86ExtendedInitInt10(), and it won't get loaded.
 [13:33:30]  <vignatti^ indeed
 [13:33:35]  <ajax> as a practical matter the closed drivers all do asic init themselves anyway
 [13:33:52]  <ajax> since there's so much state to restore that it's really hard to stuff it all into bios tables
 [13:33:56]  <vignatti^ anyway, i think you can nuke vm86 inside server too :)
 [13:34:08]  <ajax> you know, i think you're right
 [13:34:28]  <stillunk1own> sssh, do not tell that to the deletion fairy
 [13:35:04]  <vignatti> ajax: what's asic init?
 [13:35:29]  <ajax^ "asic" is a jargon word for "chip".
 [13:35:42]  <ajax> "application specific integrated circuit"
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[13:35:46]  <ajax> in this case, the GPU
 [13:36:18]  <vignatti> okay :)
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[13:38:50]  <ajax> boo.  don't really want to remove kdrive's vm86 support just yet
 [13:39:00]  <ds> keithp: my monitor blanks for about two seconds whenever I do anything with randr.  For some reason, totem also causes this to happen.  Do you have any idea why, and how I might fix it?
 [13:39:29]  <jasonlife> Is INT10 the interrupt service to initialize graphic card?
 [13:40:24]  <jcristau> ds: whenever you do anything with randr, the intel driver turns your monitor down so it can do load detection on the tv, iirc
 [13:41:18]  * stillunk1own wonders why a modern intel card needs that
 [13:41:35]  <keithp^ load detection means driving the output and monitoring the current flow
 [13:41:46]  <ds> jcristau: right.  I'm wondering what a media player would be doing to trigger it
 [13:42:13]  <ds> (guesses are fine)
 [13:42:16]  <stillunk1own> keithp: but it should be possible to do that without stealing someone's "pipe", ideally
 [13:42:47]  <keithp^ we have to drive it with something
 [13:43:35]  <stillunk1own> should have "wasted" a few transistors for that :-)
 [13:43:38]  <jasonlife> vignatti: Sorry for the basic question.. :)  Is INT10 the interrupt service to initialize graphic card?  Do I understand it correctly?
 [13:45:20]  <vignatti^ yes, it is
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[13:45:33]  <vignatti> jasonlife: lemmy point a doc for you. Just a sec.
 [13:45:54]  <jasonlife> thanks
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[13:47:28]  <vignatti> jasonlife: http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix05/tech/freenix/full_papers/lo/lo.pdf
 [13:47:46]  <jasonlife> thanks
 [13:48:45]  <vignatti^ this would give to you some basic knowledgement to all this
 [13:49:01]  <jasonlife> great..
[13:49:38]  <ajax> software interrupt 0x10 in DOS was the entrypoint to video BIOS services
 [13:50:00]  <ajax> including POST in that is actually sort of misleading; you post by just jumping to C000:0003
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[13:50:30]  <ajax> the int10 services are mostly things like DDC and mode setup
 [13:51:37]  <wereHamster> I ran into another problem with randr: http://pastey.net/93614
 [13:53:02]  <jasonlife> ajax: Does int10 services should be run for every card then?
 [13:53:26]  <ajax^ not really.
 [13:53:32]  <jasonlife> I have two card, but I can see EDID information for only first card.. why is that?
 [13:53:42]  <ajax> in fact the common case by far is _not_ using int10
 [13:54:12]  <ajax> typically we rely on system bootup to POST the card, and then do DDC and mode setup manually without BIOS calls
 [13:54:54]  <ajax> we only POST cards when we think they need it: when they're not the system primary, or when we're coming back from suspend and don't have native POST code
 [13:55:05]  <jasonlife> What happen if the manuall DDC and mode setup is wrong?
 [13:55:17]  <ajax> then they're just wrong, and we call that a bug and we fix it.
 [13:55:26]  <ajax> typically the bios services aren't very good anymore anyway
 [13:55:36]  <ajax> they only need to be good enough to set up 800x600, once
 [13:55:42]  <ajax> since that's what XP posts into
 [13:55:51]  <ajax> and then everything after that is handled by a native driver
 [13:56:04]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: so, you're okay with a Friday release schedule for 2.10.1 ?
 [13:56:27]  <ajax> and with Vista, int10 services are actually forbidden at runtime, so vista-only cards will probably stop having usable int10 services at all
 [13:56:41]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: yep - sooner if we can get a tester
 [13:56:45]  <ajax> int10 is really a last resort service
 [13:57:36]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: one guy confirmed that the CS5535 fix works.  only the EXA/RandR remains to be confirmed.
 [13:57:38]  <jasonlife> How do you get the DDC and mode information for each card? 
[13:58:05]  <jasonlife> Does vendor release that information?
[13:58:13]  <ajax> sometimes they do.
 [13:58:19]  <ajax> almost always, these days
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[13:58:55]  <ajax> if they don't, well, you do it once through BIOS services, watch what i/o cycles it's doing with the x86 emulator's debug output, and then write code to bang those registers yourself.
 [13:59:00]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: to be precise, Gadi confirmed that the CS5535 fix works. we'd need someone from OLPC to confirm the rotation fix.
 [13:59:11]  <ajax> same deal for mode setup
 [13:59:40]  <jasonlife^ thanks for the explanation.. appreciate..
 [13:59:50]  <ajax> (x86emu did not start life as a way to enable x86 cards on alphas; it's to figure out what the BIOS is doing so you can do it yourself)
 [14:00:41]  <buggs> daniels, jcristau, in my case above, with xrandr 1.2, would i walk the crtcs from res and save the modes of each and later restore them?
 [14:00:54]  <buggs> what would i need outputs for?
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[14:03:16]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: yes, the rotation fix is known working
 [14:03:23]  <CosmicPenguin> I never saw Gadi's confirmation
 [14:03:32]  <CosmicPenguin> he said his own patch worked, but I needed him to try the code that was checked in
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[14:05:48]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: he tried my patched package, made using the git commit. it worked.
 [14:08:12]  <Q-FUNK> (21:06:50) Q-FUNK: Gadi: just to be sure, you tried my 2.9.0-1ubuntu2.5 and it worked?
 [14:08:12]  <Q-FUNK> (21:07:51) Gadi: yup
 [14:09:35]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: so I guess that, unless there's more minor fixes in the pipeline, we pretty much have a release.
 [14:10:59]  <Q-FUNK> the only thing I'd add is a reference as to why this won't build on X server << 1.3 in the readme
 [14:11:59]  <Q-FUNK> other than that, I think we're done
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[14:19:49]  <wereHamster> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/proto/randrproto.git;a=blob;h=6719cf800a93a346d82514fc035b4f05cd27792e;hb=2df8499d24d15bfca3c928b681f64b6e8a05f0af;f=randrproto.txt#l1026 - Where in the RROutputChangeNotify event is the 'root' that the documentation talks about?
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[14:23:02]  <wereHamster> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=blob;h=9bfed052914dbe75b0470c224e41930d9bb3c085;hb=9f9268821b13038556fbc029df54ab0e9b2aa77f;f=randr/randr.c#l351 - This code is wrong, it should call RRDeliverEvent with pRREvent->window as the window and not pWin, could someone please fix that?
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[14:32:14]  <ndemi1> Hi, where i can find developer tutorial to write a Xorg touchscreen driver?
 [14:33:56]  <ajax> the short answer is "don't, write a linux kernel input driver, and evdev will just work"
 [14:34:35]  <ndemi1^ i guessed this "someone will say this" :)
 [14:34:56]  <ajax> the longer answer is that there isn't such a tutorial, but starting from the evdev driver as a base and replacing all its io code with something that talks to your device would be a decent start
 [14:36:48]  <ndemi1> ok thanks ajax. and one more question, since i wanted to write Xorg driver, i didnt search how to write a kernel input driver for evdev. Do you know a nice tutorial for this purpose? Or i will start to search on google :)
 [14:38:00]  <krh^ same answer for the kernel - start with existing, simple driver
 [14:38:22]  <krh> though there may be some input subsystem documentation in linux/Documentation
 [14:38:55]  <ndemi1> ok  krh
 [14:39:28]  <ndemi1> one more question, is there anyone who used wm97xx touchscreen (with kernel 2.4)?
 [14:42:14]  <stillunk1own> Such a question is unlikely to be answered with yes.
 [14:42:52]  <ajax> i haven't used 2.4 in ages.  and i certainly didn't own any touchscreens when i did.
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[14:44:18]  <ndemi1> i hoped maybe someone
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[15:08:47]  <tjaalton> whot: about the strange keymap problem even with your VCK patches; it's fixed, the user was missing some updates after all.. phew ;)
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[15:17:32]  <ilikenwf> any of you know why mesa isn't making the swrast driver when i build it?
 [15:18:38]  <ilikenwf> i get this when i startx:
 [15:18:54]  <ilikenwf> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/swrast_dri.so : no such file or directory
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[15:38:33]  <ilikenwf> mesa isn't building the rasterizer driver for me...i don't know what to do
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[15:41:02]  <krh> ilikenwf: you need to pass the right ./configure option
 [15:41:26]  <ilikenwf> i tried the --with-dri or whatever with nouveau and swrast in the params
 [15:41:27]  <ilikenwf> no good
 [15:43:36]  <ilikenwf> krh: so i'm a little confused on the whole ordeal
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[15:44:41]  <ilikenwf> krh: i'm trying to fix a script, a PKGBUILD for archlinux for this so that we can build xorg-server and all from git...
 [15:46:22]  <ilikenwf> krh:if you'd like, i'll show you the thing...it's the last piece in the puzzle, as i have everything else working
 [15:47:05]  <krh^ I have --with-driver=dri and --with-dri-drivers=i965,swrast in my command line
 [15:47:15]  <krh> maybe you didn't pass the first one?
 [15:47:26]  <ilikenwf^ maybe I didn't :)
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[15:48:02]  <krh> ilikenwf: maybe the mesa configure script should default --with-driver=dri if you pass --with-dri-drivers ...
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[15:48:42]  <ilikenwf> krh: that'd be a good thing; however this is more of a PKGBUILD
 [15:48:57]  <ilikenwf> it's for archlinux...it just goes through the build procedures
 [15:49:19]  <ilikenwf> and builds them into a package
 [15:49:20]  <krh^ sure, just saying this would make sense upstream
 [15:49:29]  <ilikenwf> yes, it would be a good idea
 [15:50:54]  <ilikenwf> krh: too bad i'm not a dev
 [15:52:17]  <ilikenwf> so this should work:   autogen.sh --prefix=/usr/ --with-driver=dri --with-dri-drivers=nouveau,swrast
 [15:52:33]  <krh^ try it and find out ;)
 [15:52:38]  <ilikenwf> i will
 [15:52:48]  <ilikenwf> i was up late last night...compiled mesa 5 or 6 times
[15:52:49]  <ilikenwf>
[15:52:59]  <ilikenwf> it's always a small stupid mistake
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[15:59:17]  <krh> keithp: ok, I had a stale libdrm installed.
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[16:09:49]  <ilikenwf> krh: d'oh...this was at the end of the pkgbuild: rm -r $startdir/pkg/usr/lib/xorg/
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[16:30:13]  <krh> ilikenwf: haha
 [16:30:26]  <krh> dont do that
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[16:36:13]  <CosmicPenguin> ohhh, output names are case sensitive?
 [16:36:16]  <CosmicPenguin> evil
 [16:36:28]  <ilikenwf> where in the mesa build directory are the built files stored?
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[16:42:00]  <ilikenwf> krh: any idea where the built files are put within the mesa build tree?
 [16:42:09]  <ilikenwf> i can't really find them, to be honest
 [16:42:24]  <ilikenwf> and the script needs to know where they are so i can put them in the package
 [16:43:30]  <ilikenwf> nevermind ;)
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[17:09:42]  <jasonlife> what is the difference "exa" and "xaa", and which one is better?
 [17:10:13]  <jasonlife> Without specifying the acceleration option, which one will be used?
 [17:10:33]  <sx|lappy> xaa is deprecated
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[17:11:25]  <jasonlife> It means it is not part of  xserver any more?
 [17:11:45]  <Duke`> it will be progressively be removed from drivers
 [17:11:48]  <sx|lappy> it is still used, but is going the way of the dodo
 [17:16:31]  <jasonlife> I lost about 10 % of total frame during full screen video play.  Is this related to acceleration?
 [17:17:42]  <jcristau^ the default depends on the driver
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[17:18:04]  <jcristau> it's usually xaa still
 [17:18:29]  <jasonlife> Oh.. I see, I need to try exa then.
 [17:20:43]  <jasonlife> Is EXA faster than XAA?  what is the advantage for EXA over XAA?
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[17:21:30]  Log file opened 2008-08-12T17:56 -----
----- [2008-08-13] -----
 ----- Log file closed 2008-08-13T09:14 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-08-13T09:14 -----
[09:15:07]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[09:15:07]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[09:15:07]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aaronp agd5f aggelos ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc-away alanc_away anderco b0le Battousai bbyer benh benjsc bernie bgoglin blauzahl bobbens bradd___ bryce buggs cbrake chainsawbike cjb coling CP|home crossbuilder cskmax ctyler cworth dagb daniels dante darktama davej dberkholz Dodji dr-xorg Dr_Jakob DrNick ds dwmw2 eboettcher egbert emmes erikg fijnman glisse gmansi gordonjin GuentherB gustaf1 hachi halfline Herman hw_ illdred Ingmar jasonlife jay-away jbarnes jcristau jwelsh keithp kem leio Lerc libv londo Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu math_b mjg59 mmc mpr mraudsepp MrCooper mw| ndim nha Ori_B osiris_ otavio PauloZanoni pcpa pedroerp pete__c_ Plagman_ psyquark RaoulDuke raster rnoland rnoland_ rvalles sangu sebas solarion soren sputnik66 stillunknown svu sxpert sx|lappy t4bz| TBBle tcoppi teuf tibbs|h tilman_ tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker wereHamster whot z3ro Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
[09:15:41]  <buggs> i see, thanks
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[09:24:49]  <buggs> A crtc with e.g. two outputs, which support different modes would be rather rare?
 [09:25:27]  <ajax> two outputs that support a different set of modes is quite common.
 [09:25:46]  <ajax> imagine having vga and tv scanning out the same thing.  the vga is clearly more capable.
 [09:26:30]  <ajax> however, modes are a property of the crtc.  you can only connect an output to a crtc if the output can handle the mode the crtc is programmed with.
 [09:27:04]  <ajax> (this is something of a lie, i suppose, but it's close enough.)
 [09:29:12]  <stillunknown> what's the lie part?
 [09:29:43]  <ajax> really?  you're going to make me do this?
 [09:29:48]  <ajax> i haven't even had coffee yet/
 [09:29:58]  <buggs> so the available modes for a crtc is the intersection of the modes of the OutputInfo?
 [09:30:07]  <ajax> ding.
 [09:30:10]  <ajax> (yes)
 [09:31:13]  <buggs> great
 [09:31:49]  <stillunknown> ajax: i guess not
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[10:55:13]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: hi!  anything to  add to those README changes for 2.10.1 ?
 [10:56:06]  <jasonlife> I configured my X with zaphod mode with three screen and find that the first head is much faster than others.  Are there some reason for it?
 [10:57:54]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: nope
 [10:58:16]  <Q-FUNK^ ok
 [10:58:28]  <jasonlife> When I play video on three screens, I lost frames a lot on the second and third screens.  The first screen is very fast
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[11:20:13]  <jasonlife> I can see "Cannot shadow an accelerated frame buffer" warning in the log file.  Can I fix this?
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[11:52:25]  <mjg59> jasonlife: Fix it in what way?
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[11:56:05]  <daniels> jasonlife: take Option "ShadowFB" out and that warning will disappear
 [11:56:33]  <jasonlife> I see..
 [11:58:14]  <jasonlife> I just wonder whether this warning message affects anything on my second head.  I have somewhat slow second head compare to the first one.
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[13:40:45]  <agd5f> daniels, or anyone else: is there a preferred hotel yet for XDS?
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[13:42:18]  <ndemir> Hi, where can i find a tutorial about xf86 functions? for example: what is the purposes of xf86XInputSetScreen, xf86PostProximityEvent functions?
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[13:57:19]  <dberkholz> anyone heard of stb systems?
 [13:57:30]  <dberkholz> i have a video card here made by them in 1991, and i have on clue what it is
 [13:57:41]  <dberkholz> no clue*
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[13:58:35]  <ajax> they just did boards, not asics
 [13:59:06]  <ajax> but yeah, i've heard of them
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[13:59:54]  <dberkholz> also, does anyone want this card? it's isa.
 [14:00:11]  <dberkholz> ah, looks like tseng.
 [14:00:22]  <mlankhorst> xserver head cannot be built with libdrm head.
 [14:00:29]  <dberkholz> finally found the right section of small gray print
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[14:00:48]  <ajax> dberkholz: no thanks, i gave up heavy bondage
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[14:02:08]  <dberkholz> time for lunch.
 [14:02:53]  <mlankhorst> I'll see if I can use GEM's equivalent of drmBO. I'm bored anyway. :-)
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[14:07:42]  <krh> mlankhorst: use --disable-dri2 for now
 [14:08:17]  <mlankhorst^ I want to do some xorg development, so I'm looking through the gem commits to see what changed.
 [14:08:26]  <ajax> right, this blows
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[14:08:50]  <ajax> server reports randr 1.2 no matter what the driver supports
 [14:09:03]  <krh> mlankhorst: the compile problems with xserver is because the ttm interface got dropped from libdrm
 [14:09:09]  <mlankhorst> I know.
 [14:09:21]  <mlankhorst> I want to write the part where it hooks into GEM.
 [14:09:36]  <krh^ I'm rewriting dri2 now to not use an sarea at all, so it wont depend on the memory manager in use
 [14:09:57]  <mlankhorst> Ok.
 [14:10:01]  <krh^ the GEM parts are all in the driver now (xf86-video-intel)
 [14:10:48]  <krh> I'm trying to bring the new code up right now, so hopefully I'll be able to post patches later today
 [14:11:24]  <mlankhorst> Awesome. I've been wanting to do some xorg development in the 3d area but it's hard to find a place to start.
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[14:21:39]  <agd5f> krh: you going to xds?
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[14:38:01]  <krh> agd5f: maybe... funding sitation is unclear...
 [14:39:34]  <agd5f> does anyone have a hotel yet for xds?  I need to book one
 [14:40:00]  <krh> we're not staying in the zoo?
 [14:40:32]  <agd5f> wiki page indicates not
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[14:49:12]  <agd5f> jbarnes_: you going to xds?
 [14:50:24]  <jbarnes_^ yep
 [14:50:41]  <agd5f^ you have a hotel yet?
 [14:51:14]  <jbarnes_> yeah, holiday inn, apparently right next to the zoo
 [14:51:39]  <CosmicPenguin> I'll take things you never hear about technology conferences for 100, Alex
 [14:56:09]  <jbarnes_^ yeah it's pretty cool that the Edinburgh zoo is hosting us this time
 [14:56:53]  <agd5f^ holiday inn on CORSTORPHINE ROAD?
 [14:59:26]  <jbarnes_^ yeah
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[15:09:43]  <agd5f> jbarnes: cool.  thanks
 [15:10:54]  <jbarnes^ what dates are you there?
 [15:11:06]  <agd5f^ hopefully 2-6
 [15:11:21]  <agd5f> I cna't book my flights till JB jget back to approve them though
 [15:11:34]  <jbarnes> me too... I land in EDI early on the 2nd
 [15:11:50]  <jbarnes> then take off around noon on the 6th
 [15:12:15]  <agd5f> yeah, sounds similar to what the travel agent looked up for me
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[16:00:32]  <Zouppen> How the absolute coordinates are supposed to work with evdev? I am writing an userspace touchscreen driver (for Wii Remote) and I can gen only button events working, but moving the pointer seems to be impossible.
 [16:02:53]  <ajax> absolute coordinate events move the mouse to a precise point on the screen
 [16:03:08]  <ajax> i have difficulty thinking of a way in which the wiimote is that kind of device.
 [16:03:19]  <Zouppen> with Linux and uinput. I can receive absolute axis data with evtest but xorg evdev is not listening that data.
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[16:04:04]  <Zouppen> ajax: we are writing a driver to do fancy matrix transformations to get absolute coordinates out of IR data
 [16:04:17]  <DrNick> why would you even want absolute coordinates?
 [16:06:18]  <Zouppen> I want to move the pointer to a precise point. I had some success with evtouch but I don't need all the stuff evtouch provides because we got our own calibration and so on.
 [16:06:18]  <ilikenwf> anyone here familiar with archlinux pkgbiulds? i have everything but mesa-git working...mesa-git isn't building the dri drivers for some reason
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[16:07:55]  <buggs> ilikenwf, yes
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[16:09:36]  <Zouppen> and errors like "(EE) Mouse1: AbsoluteTouch: 'DIGI_Touch' does not exist." seems to be undocumented
 [16:09:39]  <DrNick> hmm. I guess the IR information is reported in absolute coordinates over a 1024x768 region
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[16:10:50]  <Zouppen> DrNick: yes, and its multiplied with a matrix which is got from calibration data (it's given to the driver)
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[16:11:37]  <DrNick> I don't think you should be cooking the data in the driver at all; that would limit what userspace is able to do with the raw information
 [16:11:56]  <ilikenwf> buggs:lol...you're in the arch room too
 [16:12:07]  <ilikenwf> would you mind looking at it if i pastebined it?
 [16:12:11]  <buggs> guess it's better to talk there
 [16:12:53]  <Zouppen> DrNick: okay, do you have a suggestion where I should process the data in?
 [16:13:21]  <DrNick> the userspace application
 [16:13:43]  <ajax> i think the point here is to not have to modify every X app
 [16:14:09]  <DrNick> feed them the target point, the remote distance and the angle
 [16:15:25]  <Zouppen> yes, that's the driver I'm talking about. :-) It's a userspace driver listening some data from cwiid and doing some math and passing the data to Linux uinput.
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[16:16:26]  <Zouppen> but the problem here is that xorg's evdev driver is ignoring ABS_X and ABS_Y data from input device...
 [16:16:33]  <ajax> what version of evdev?
 [16:16:37]  <ajax> we definitely handle that.
 [16:16:52]  <ajax> (well, with a caveat, but let's find out version first)
 [16:18:16]  <Zouppen> Version: 1:1.2.0-1ubuntu2 (Ubuntu 8.04)
 [16:18:30]  <Zouppen> Package: xserver-xorg-input-evdev
 [16:18:59]  <ajax> 1.2 had enough config options that you could probably write towers of hanoi in it
 [16:19:13]  <ajax> so there's probably some way to do it there
 [16:19:22]  <ajax> 2.0 definitely works with that though
 [16:19:40]  <Zouppen> is there more documentation available than that stuff in evdev manpage?
 [16:19:41]  <ajax> tested on a touchscreen that's about nine feet behind me, in fact
 [16:20:08]  <ajax> google might know of some, but i don't.
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[16:26:11]  <Zouppen> ok... so I'll continue hacking with trial-and-error... :-P thanks anyway :)
 [16:30:25]  <airlied> ajax: what else can the server report?
 [16:30:52]  <airlied> unless the reporting is per screen..
 [16:31:07]  <airlied> I told the GNOME guys to just use default as a check for compat drivers
 [16:32:40]  <ajax^ true i suppose.
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[17:13:11]  <tjaalton> daniels: btw, turns out that fedora has had a patch for gnome-settings-daemon since May that does what you suggested; ignores the model setting if evdev is used :)
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[17:18:13]  <tjaalton> the patch is actually from March
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[17:21:18]  <ajax> we sort of assumed nobody was insane enough to be shipping input hotplug enabled.
 [17:21:29]  <ajax> given we had to half-disable it to make it usable
 [17:23:51]  <tjaalton> yah
 [17:23:56]  <tjaalton> +e
 [17:24:41]  <ajax> hmm.  trying to think of a reason to let backing store and saveunders live.
 [17:24:52]  <ajax> not having much success.
 [17:25:44]  <marcheu> I see one, I'm almost done convincing the mplayer guys to remove backing store. at least let this be useful for a short while :)
 [17:26:33]  <ajax> saveunders though
 [17:26:48]  <ajax> changing the storage policy of windows you don't own seems impolite
 [17:27:06]  <marcheu> heh well if you kill both I won't bother with mplayer :)
 [17:27:32]  <ajax> i wonder if xts5 covers them
 [17:27:36]  <marcheu> anyway that thing in mplayer is stupid in any case, I must complete my quest
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[17:31:38]  <ajax> well, there's that shot fired
 [17:31:42]  <ajax> we'll see if anyone notices
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[17:35:09]  <mlankhorst> ajax: Why aren't the structure members eviscerated?
 [17:35:58]  <mlankhorst> oh nm
 [17:37:01]  <ajax> generally i try to avoid changing the major abi structures without really compelling reason
 [17:37:18]  <ajax> even if we did already break abi for a given release
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[17:37:51]  <ajax> it's not like sizeof(struct _Screen) has a serious performance impact
 [17:41:18]  <airlied^ surely it needs cacheline alignment :-P
 [17:42:20]  <ajax> i'm hoping by, say, xserver 2.0, we'll have redone enough of the internals that changing the toplevel abis is actually worthwhile
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[17:42:49]  <ajax> (where 2.0 follows 1.9)
 [17:43:03]  <mlankhorst> Well at least I set a goal for tomorrow now, find, test and fix at least 1 bug I can reproduce with my card and the radeon driver.
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[18:04:28]  <cjb> airlied: hrr.  I just upgraded to Rawhide from Rawhide-two-weeks-ago, and I'm getting small patches of noise on radeon/dual-link DVI
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[18:04:56]  <cjb> (ie. artifacts that are very short and about a half inch long that appear for a brief moment at a different place each time)
 [18:06:57]  <mlankhorst> Do a git bisection?
 [18:07:33]  <cjb> yeah, sounds like I should.  I hope it's ddx and not drm.
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[18:14:44]  <cjb> whoa.  my Xorg.0.log is full of repeat EDID parsing and so on.
 [18:15:02]  <CosmicPenguin> DDC is so nice, we do it twice
 [18:15:31]  <cjb> pullcord:cjb~ % grep "EDID (in hex)" /var/log/Xorg.0.log | wc -l                                                                                                                                                       
[18:15:31]  <cjb> 42
 [18:15:34]  <cjb> more than twice!
 [18:15:40]  <cjb> ajax: ping
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[18:19:36]  <ajax> cjb: sup
 [18:19:53]  <ajax> i bet i broke the build, didn't i.
 [18:19:59]  <cjb^ not this time :)
 [18:20:16]  <cjb> I just updated to latest Rawhide from two-weeks-ago Rawhide, and X is behaving differently and poorly
 [18:20:24]  <ajax> you're telling me
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[18:21:01]  <cjb> okay.  :)  shall I leave you alone?  in particular, I'm getting screen flicker, and X appears to have EDID'd my monitor 42 times in a row.
 [18:21:07]  <ajax> the edid thing is gnome
 [18:21:18]  <ajax> the screen flicker, uh.  possibly related but i don't think so.
 [18:21:35]  <cjb> ok, I'll try bisecting.  here's a difference from before/after the upgrade:
 [18:22:04]  <cjb> -best_feedback_div: 1072
 [18:22:04]  <cjb> -best_ref_div: 27
 [18:22:04]  <cjb> -best_post_div: 4
 [18:22:04]  <cjb> +best_feedback_div: 268
 [18:22:07]  <cjb> +best_ref_div: 9
 [18:22:10]  <cjb> +best_post_div: 3
 [18:22:15]  <cjb> I'll go bisect radeon, I guess.
 [18:22:17]  <ajax> eenteresting.
 [18:22:28]  <cjb> also
 [18:22:29]  <cjb> -(II) RADEON(0): crtc(0) PLL  : refdiv 27, fbdiv 0x430(1072), pdiv 4
 [18:22:29]  <cjb> +(II) RADEON(0): crtc(0) PLL  : refdiv 9, fbdiv 0x10C(268), pdiv 3
 [18:22:47]  <ajax> i know there were some changes in git a while ago about pll computation
 [18:22:51]  <ajax> or, i think there were.
 [18:24:22]  <cjb> so, this didn't happen with 1.4.99.905
 [18:24:40]  <ajax> server shouldn't have anything to do with it.
 [18:24:42]  <cjb> but I guess Radeon might have received a large diff?
 [18:24:44]  <cjb> right.
 [18:24:46]  <svu> daniels, ping?
 [18:24:51]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/commit/?id=72feaa37ea07620f5f2ead438dbc72a1c8883cd3 is what i'm thinking of
 [18:25:09]  <ajax> in particular the "prefer lower ref dividers" thing
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[18:30:56]  <cjb> ajax: great, thanks, will try reverting.
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[18:39:32]  <airlied> cjb: also bandwidth calculation, try Option "DisplayPriority" "HIGH"
 [18:40:51]  <cjb^ Thanks, will try that now.
 [18:42:12]  <cjb> nope, didn't help
 [18:42:55]  <airlied> try BIOS
 [18:42:58]  <airlied> instead of HIGH
 [18:43:16]  <airlied> but otherwise its probably pll changes and us not doing the priority right.
 [18:43:37]  * CosmicPenguin discovers EXADriverPtr->PixmapIsOffscreen and is blinded by the light that went off above his head
 [18:44:49]  <airlied> cjb: open a bug on bugs.freedesktop.org, so we can track it
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[18:46:46]  <svu> anyone knows - why XKB is inited using evdev module even though xorg.conf contains explicit XkbModel pc105?
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[19:01:43]  <cjb> ajax: wow, you're good
 [19:01:48]  <cjb> that was the exact commit.
 [19:02:01]  <cjb> airlied: ^ which means it's PLL
 [19:03:23]  <airlied> agd5f: ^^
 [19:03:30]  <cjb> filing a bug now :)
 [19:03:31]  <agd5f^ it's a tough one.  that commit fixed several similar bugs
 [19:04:04]  * cjb remains disturbed at ajax's ability to tell him which commit introduced a regression without actually being particularly involved in the patches.
 [19:04:25]  <cjb> agd5f: happy to do whatever you'd like to diagnose.
 [19:04:41]  <agd5f^ pastebin your log?
 [19:04:45]  <cjb^ sure
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[19:08:17]  <cjb> at the commit before the PLL one:
 [19:08:19]  <cjb> http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/xorg-noflicker.log
 [19:08:30]  <cjb> at radeon git head:
 [19:08:36]  <cjb> http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/xorg-flicker.log
 [19:09:44]  <cjb> (compare "best_feedback_div" etc)
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[19:10:21]  <cjb> noflicker:  (II) RADEON(0): crtc(0) PLL  : refdiv 27, fbdiv 0x430(1072), pdiv 4
 [19:10:30]  <cjb> flicker:  (II) RADEON(0): crtc(0) PLL  : refdiv 9, fbdiv 0x10C(268), pdiv 3
 [19:11:51]  <agd5f^ yeah, the problem is there's many ways to get to the same clock, but not all monitors like the all combinations
 [19:13:56]  <agd5f> comment out line 228 of atombios_crtc.c: pll_flags |= RADEON_PLL_PREFER_LOW_REF_DIV;
 [19:15:15]  <cjb^ against head?  okay
 [19:15:19]  <agd5f> yup
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[19:19:17]  <cjb> (filed at http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17125 )
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[19:20:57]  <cjb> agd5f: nope, didn't help
 [19:21:20]  <agd5f^ new log?
 [19:21:23]  <cjb> sure
 [19:22:07]  <cjb> http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/xorg-flicker2.log
 [19:23:01]  <agd5f> it's ending up with eth same pll
 [19:24:15]  <cjb> ooh
 [19:24:27]  <daniels> agd5f: unsuccessfully trying to find one that doesn't cost more money than the catholic church has
 [19:24:58]  <cjb+ ah, the baf PLL, you mean
 [19:25:10]  <agd5f^ yeah
 [19:25:14]  <cjb> bad :)
 [19:25:46]  <cjb> So it's wrong to prefer a low ref div on this monitor, or this combo of card and monitor.
 [19:26:01]  <CosmicPenguin> the bat PLL of course is next to the bat channel
 [19:26:38]  <agd5f> cjb: I suspect it's more of an issue what combinations work best at certain frequency ranges
 [19:27:10]  <cjb> Ah.  Does dual-link DVI imply a very high frequency?
 [19:27:20]  <cjb> (this is 2560x1600, etc)
 [19:27:31]  <agd5f> all combinations produce the same clock, so it shouldn't matter, but it does
 [19:27:43]  <agd5f> 268 Mhz
 [19:30:03]  <agd5f> cjb: revert the last change and try changing line 232 of radeon_crtc.c
 [19:30:05]  <svu> daniels, do you know - why XKB is inited using evdev model (according to XKB_RULES_NAMES) even though xorg.conf contains explicit XkbModel pc105?
 [19:30:25]  <agd5f> change the '<' to '>'
 [19:30:44]  <benh^ heya
 [19:31:02]  <benh> the r6xx doco out there, do they document whatever endian swapping capabilities replace surfaces ?
 [19:31:17]  <airlied^ nothing public yet
 [19:31:20]  <agd5f+ nope
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[19:31:25]  <benh> agd5f: we're having AMCC people trying to do r6xx on powerpc
 [19:31:27]  <benh> ok
 [19:31:31]  <whot> svu: you're probably hotplugging the devices, in which case evdev is forced
 [19:31:59]  <svu^ I have laptop with its own keyboard and usb mouse. is that a reason to enforce evdev?
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[19:35:16]  <pcpa> ajax or someone else working on server-1.5-branch: please cherry pick 8d4d0b47a07a298a20ffae9fefe96c8c7ca9dccc or link will fail due to undefined references to assert, if compiled with --enable-debug
 [19:35:35]  <whot> Zouppen: evdev ignores ABS if there is a relative axis present
 [19:36:30]  <whot> svu: depends on your distro, but most likely yes.
 [19:36:59]  <daniels+ yep. welcome to the future.
 [19:37:06]  <cjb> agd5f: } else if ((flags & RADEON_PLL_PREFER_LOW_REF_DIV) && (ref_div < best_ref_div)) {
 [19:37:08]  <cjb> ?
 [19:37:14]  <cjb> (that's line 231 here)
 [19:37:17]  <agd5f^ yup
 [19:38:13]  <svu> whot, god almighty...
 [19:38:39]  <svu> daniels, should GNOME then disable chosing the model altogether? if it is going to be evdev forever?
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[19:39:12]  <daniels> svu: compare xf86-inpup-{kbd,evdev}
 [19:39:33]  <whot+ yes. don't touch the model in gnome
 [19:39:40]  <daniels+ no, due to things like abnt2.
 [19:39:50]  <whot^ oh?
 [19:40:02]  <daniels> also geom, if we still care.
 [19:40:20]  <svu> we do care - but the keycodes are different
 [19:40:57]  <cjb> agd5f: that seems almost perfect, but I think I did see one flicker
 [19:41:01]  <daniels> whot: some (notably pc98) send bizzare different keycodes.
 [19:41:26]  <svu^ should entire structure of models/geometries/keycodes be reviewed?
 [19:41:33]  <daniels> otoh, i really don't care about pc98.
 [19:42:00]  <daniels> svu: maybe rules/evdev makes sense.
 [19:42:06]  <agd5f> cjb: what dividers get picked in that scenario?
 [19:42:14]  <cjb^ I get occasional flickering when there's lots changing on the screen -- e.g. when I hit f11 to make gnome-terminal full screen or leave full screen.
 [19:42:16]  <cjb> moment.
 [19:42:19]  <svu> daniels, oh no... I'll die managing two sets of rules
 [19:42:43]  <svu> why not just making all models use evdev keycodes?
 [19:43:08]  <cjb> agd5f: http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/xorg-flicker3.log
 [19:43:18]  <svu> (well may be not - but most of models)
 [19:43:22]  <daniels^ eh. most of it (at least l,v,k) is common, and you can easily reuse them.
 [19:43:41]  <cjb> I've seen a couple more flickers, but still doesn't seem as bad as it was.
 [19:43:44]  <daniels> svu: abnt2, pc98, geom?
 [19:43:56]  <svu^ except for these special ones
 [19:44:38]  <svu> just last line in base.m_k.part would be changed
 [19:44:45]  <svu> from  *             =       xfree86
 [19:44:51]  <daniels> the former is the only one i really care about, tbh. does anybody care about xkb geometry?
 [19:44:51]  <svu> to * = evdev
 [19:45:23]  <svu> also, thinkpadz line probably
 [19:45:37]  <svu> (and if people ask for abnt2 and jp106 - we'll adjust them as well)
 [19:45:45]  <svu> small change
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[19:46:05]  <svu> I do care about geometry - I like to draw the preview in gnome;)
 [19:46:12]  <cjb> agd5f: so we have:  working=1072/27/4, not-working=268/9/3, almost-working=804/27/3
 [19:46:38]  <daniels> svu: yes, but then you have model representing driver + model, where driver is pretty much what rules are for.
 [19:47:22]  <svu^ I am not sure every driver should have own rules actually...
 [19:48:05]  <svu> though.... picking the rules by the driver name is interesting
 [19:48:17]  <svu> that way, we'll have rules "kbd" and "evdev"
 [19:48:24]  <svu> funny enough
 [19:48:54]  <agd5f> cjb: strange the you ended up with 804 rather than 1072
 [19:49:02]  <svu> daniels, is kbd going to become deprecated any time soon?
 [19:49:27]  <cjb> agd5f: yup.
 [19:51:23]  <whot> svu: unlikely. AFAIK evdev only works under linux so far?
 [19:51:47]  <svu^ arrgh. this all is so confusing..
 [19:52:18]  <svu> in some situations we should allow user to change the model - in some others we should not
 [19:52:22]  <svu> I have to think about all that
 [19:52:30]  <svu> thanks for the food for thoughts:)
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[20:14:04]  <agd5f> cjb: hmm, so I've got a fix, the question is, where are the limits...
 [20:16:35]  <agd5f> 200? 250? 170?
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[20:29:24]  <cheeseboy> hey I created a jar to show a bug in xorg
 [20:29:33]  <cheeseboy> How do I report it?
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[20:34:53]  <whot> cheeseboy: bugs.freedesktop.org
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[20:42:02]  <cheeseboy> ok now one of you devs do your super programming and fix it please http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17126
 [20:43:26]  <airlied^ you might want to attach /var/log/Xorg.0.log
 [20:44:29]  <cjb> agd5f: heading home soon, updated the bug, let me know if you have other ideas.
 [20:45:00]  <cheeseboy> airlied, i checked it
 [20:45:03]  <cheeseboy> no errors
 [20:45:10]  <airlied> we need it for info though
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[20:47:11]  <cheeseboy> happy now? :P
 [20:50:09]  <cheeseboy> so can you fix it please airlied ?
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[20:51:20]  <airlied> cheeseboy: not at the moment, but at least now we know what hw it happens on..
 [20:51:33]  <airlied> does it happen if you use the vesa driver?
 [20:51:42]  <airlied> (if X starts at all with vesa on your machine)
 [20:52:04]  <cheeseboy> um I havent tried vesa
 [20:52:59]  <cheeseboy> airlied, I have tested this on my freinds computers though
 [20:53:20]  <cheeseboy> also this bug doesnt seem to occut in xorg 1.4.2
 [20:53:35]  <airlied^ thats why it might be good to see if its a driver bug
 [20:53:50]  <airlied> also try with Option "AccelMethod" "XAA" in xorg.conf Driver section
 [20:55:31]  <cheeseboy> that for vesa or intel driver?
 [20:55:52]  <airlied> intel.
 [20:57:20]  <cheeseboy> wheres "Driver" section
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[20:57:52]  <airlied> oh Device section
 [20:59:28]  <cheeseboy> brb restarting X
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[21:03:04]  <cheeseboy> well said that was invalid
 [21:03:13]  <cheeseboy> and X won't start with vesa
 [21:03:20]  <cheeseboy> no usable screens
 [21:04:29]  <cheeseboy> brb typoed first one
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[21:05:45]  <cheeseboy> yep still crashes X with accelmethod
[21:08:22]  <cheeseboy> airlied, it crash your X ?
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[21:44:28]  <airlied> cheeseboy: I don't have java installed.
 [21:44:36]  <airlied> btw you should also include what jvm you are usinhg
 [21:45:04]  <cheeseboy> occurs in all versions of java
 [21:46:00]  <airlied^ also the java source code to the jar is possible.
 [21:46:25]  <cheeseboy^ jar are just a executable zip
 [21:46:33]  <cheeseboy> source is in it
 [21:47:48]  <airlied> ah cool.. I thought they were compiled bytecode stuff
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[21:49:39]  <Lrrr> err, sorry to unlurk, but source is often not in it.
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[22:03:40]  <cheeseboy> Lrr is in that one :P
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[22:34:38]  <cjb> whoa, drivers broke
 [22:34:39]  <cjb> rhd_driver.c:48:25: error: xf86Version.h: No such file or directory
 [22:38:28]  <cheeseboy> hmm?
 [22:39:34]  <whot> hmm. evdev breaks the kernel mouse button emulation. that's bad.
 [22:41:18]  <cjb> cheeseboy: tinderbox.
 [22:42:56]  <cheeseboy> fix my bug first :P
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[23:34:02]  <mjg59> I've just submitted a kernel patch that should fix the Dell keyup issue
 [23:37:11]  <cheeseboy> good job mjg59 now if you don't mind can you take a look at bug 17126
 [23:37:55]  <airlied^ someone will get to it eventually
 [23:38:03]  <airlied> we aren't all sitting around waiting for bugs to look at..
 [23:38:07]  <airlied> join the queue :)
 [23:38:50]  <cheeseboy> huh?
 [23:40:06]  <mjg59^ Entirely not my field of expertise
 [23:40:11]  <mjg59> Also, it's 4:40AM here
 [23:40:17]  <airlied> cheeseboy: i.e. stop asking people who randomly say things to fix your bug..
 [23:40:50]  <airlied> it doesn't crash my X server
 [23:41:00]  <cheeseboy> I'm not patient enough :P
 [23:41:12]  <airlied> though it goes really slow when that app is running.
 [23:41:21]  <cheeseboy^ what version of X you running?
 [23:41:46]  <airlied> whatever we ship in Fedora 9.
 [23:41:50]  <airlied> so 1.5 rc.
 [23:42:15]  <airlied> do I have to do anything to crash it?
 [23:42:17]  <cheeseboy> and you dragged and dropped an item from the list?
 [23:42:23]  <airlied> or just run java -jar Download/Crash.jar
 [23:42:31]  <airlied> I can't even select an item
 [23:42:59]  <cheeseboy> hmm?
 [23:43:05]  <cheeseboy> just click
 [23:43:08]  <airlied> the app seems to fail to accept input
 [23:43:21]  <cheeseboy> ive tested it on 3 pcs
 [23:43:32]  <airlied> just install openjdk now
 [23:43:36]  <cheeseboy> one even ran fedora
 [23:44:45]  <cheeseboy> airlied, what is your java version?
 [23:45:12]  <airlied> nope not crashing here with openjdk from f9
 [23:45:15]  <airlied> even if I drag stuff in
 [23:45:46]  <cheeseboy> thought you couldn't drag stuff?
 [23:45:56]  <airlied^ openjdk does..
 [23:46:02]  <airlied> I only had gcj installed before
 [23:46:48]  <cheeseboy> my freind also runs fedora core 9 and it crashed it
 [23:47:00]  <airlied> it might be a hw specific problem
 [23:47:10]  <cheeseboy> what does X -version say?
 [23:47:20]  <airlied> X.Org X Server 1.4.99.905 (1.5.0 RC 5)
 [23:47:56]  <cheeseboy> ok thasts what she has
 [23:48:06]  <cheeseboy> i have 1.4.99.906
 [23:48:25]  <airlied> so it quite possibly is only an intel driver issue
 [23:48:55]  <cheeseboy> can you help me get vesa working so I can test?
 [23:49:21]  <airlied> another option is try it in Xephyr
 [23:49:27]  <airlied> or Xnest
 [23:49:44]  <cheeseboy> never used those
 [23:54:39]  <cheeseboy> airlied, i know it doesn't crash xorg 1.4.2 though
 [23:55:48]  <airlied^ yeah thats why I'd guess a driver issue
 [23:55:55]  <airlied> the drivers changed a bit in between
 [23:56:54]  <cheeseboy> there no regression checker or sumtin?
 [23:57:07]  <airlied> not really.
 [23:57:15]  <cheeseboy> :(
 ----- [2008-08-14] -----
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[00:12:46]  <cheeseboy> airlied, tried on nvidia computer didnt crash it
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[00:15:22]  <cheeseboy> airlied gotta be intel specific
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[01:16:51]  <cjb> airlied: hm, are you or someone else going through and fixing up error: 'XF86_VERSION_CURRENT' undeclared here (not in a function)
 [01:16:52]  <cjb> ?
 [01:17:10]  <cjb> the number of drivers affected seems to be decreasing each time tinderbox runs :)
 [01:18:56]  <airlied^ not me.
 [01:19:37]  <cjb^ ok.  just sent a mail to xorg@, anyway, >20 drivers are failing to build at the moment
 [01:20:56]  * cjb sleep
 [01:21:02]  <airlied^ its wierd I didn't see anyone explicity break it
 [01:21:47]  <cjb^ tinderbox had been previously broken with the DRI2 stuff, so I can't give you a commit at which the drivers stopped working
 [01:21:51]  <airlied> oh I do see it
 [01:21:53]  <cjb^ but xf86version.h doesn't exist anymore
 [01:21:58]  <cjb> which seems like a smoking gun
 [01:23:04]  <airlied> ah ajax removed it.. I suppose we need to go clean the drivers then
 [01:24:21]  <cjb> ajax: hey, you did break the build after all!
 [01:24:25]  <cjb> surprise!  ;-)
 [01:24:39]  <cjb> airlied: there's a list of which need cleaning on xorg@ now
 [01:49:08]  <Zouppen> whot: ok, thanks. :-) we'll check if that works (after I get home from work)
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[02:35:09]  <whot> benjsc: ping
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[02:55:48]  <ndemir> In Debian Etch, i downloaded the xserver-xorg-input-evdev source code, but i can not see xf86Post functions.
 [02:55:55]  <ndemir> Why?
 [02:56:48]  <whot^ should be in src/evdev.c
 [02:57:36]  <ndemir^ ok, i found in src/evdev_btn.c
 [02:58:08]  <ndemir> and whot: do you know a simple xorg input driver. evdev is complicated for beginners :)
 [02:59:06]  <whot^ evdev is the simplest one
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[02:59:21]  <whot> ndemir: look at evdev 2.0 instead of evdev 1.2 though
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[02:59:32]  <ndemir> ok thanks whot
 [03:03:40]  <ndemir> the source code for debian etch is more complicated then the ubuntu's. it is easier to understand the source code in ubuntu repository.
 [03:04:48]  <tjaalton^ you are comparing different versions.. it's basically the same package
 [03:05:47]  <ndemir> and what is the difference between evdev and evtouch?
 [03:06:43]  <whot> tjaalton: did the property stuff work fine?
 [03:12:06]  <tjaalton^ I haven't got a driver to test on, yet
 [03:13:11]  <tjaalton> svu: there's a patch for gnome-settings-daemon to ignore the model if evdev is the initial model (ie. evdev is used)
 [03:13:12]  <whot^ evdev?
 [03:13:22]  <tjaalton^ but it tests XI2 currently?
 [03:13:39]  <whot^ just remove the ifdefs around the property stuff
 [03:13:42]  <tjaalton> trivial to change but didn't get to it yesterday
 [03:13:44]  <tjaalton> right
 [03:14:05]  <tjaalton> I'll build the server, evdev and xinput next
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[05:13:54]  <tjaalton> whot: where do I get XIPropertyInfo?
 [05:15:16]  <ndemir> hi who: i just want to download xf86-input-random via using git. how can i?
 [05:16:32]  <whot> tjaalton: XInput.h, libXi
 [05:17:10]  <tjaalton^ ah, seems I'm missing some commit
 [05:17:22]  <whot> ndemir:  git clone git://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/xf86-input-random.git
 [05:17:42]  <ndemir> thanks whot
 [05:18:42]  <tjaalton> crap, the libxi version of XInput.h was not installed
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[05:36:31]  <ndemir> whot: how can i fix this error?
[05:36:31]  <ndemir> random.c: In function '_random_init_axes':
 [05:36:31]  <ndemir> random.c:347: error: 'GetMotionHistory' undeclared (first use in this function)
 [05:36:31]  <ndemir> error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
 [05:36:31]  <ndemir> error: for each function it appears in.)
 [05:36:31]  <ndemir> I am not using source tree, i am using debian etch X libraries.
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[05:39:36]  <whot> ndemir: remove the parameter. the driver hasn't been updated for a while, so there are some issues with the new serve APIs
 [05:40:43]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ping
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[05:45:13]  <ndemir> whot: should random_drv.so work? Because when i use it, X gives error:
 [05:45:13]  <ndemir> Fatal server error:
 [05:45:13]  <ndemir> Caught signal 11.  Server aborting
 [05:47:30]  <tjaalton> whot: what about Xge.h, should I need that?
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[05:53:39]  <ndemir> ok i found which funcs makes it seg fault.
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[06:07:39]  <whot> tjaalton: Xge.h is in libXext
 [06:08:07]  <whot> ndemir: that driver hasn't been updated for ages, so you'll have to fix it. which is a good learning exercise btw :)
 [06:08:18]  <whot> you can send me the patches afterwards :)
 [06:10:39]  <tjaalton^ yes, I've updated xextproto to 7.0.3
 [06:14:43]  <whot^ come to think of it, you actually shouldn't need it for the backport. the whole point is that it gets by without xge
 [06:14:51]  <whot> stray include maybe?
 [06:15:01]  <tjaalton^ it's in XInput.h
 [06:18:48]  <whot^ you can remove it, only needed for XI2
 [06:18:55]  <tjaalton^ cool, thanks
 [06:23:47]  <tjaalton> I get a build error with the new XInput.h, http://pastebin.com/m611d2028
 [06:23:53]  <tjaalton> that's from libXi
 [06:24:30]  <jcristau^ you'll need to remove the xge stuff
 [06:24:43]  <tjaalton> good point
 [06:25:06]  <tjaalton> although I already downgraded the package
 [06:25:34]  <jcristau> from XInput.h i mean
 [06:25:49]  <tjaalton> gah
 [06:25:58]  <tjaalton> too many packages to hand-hold :P
 [06:26:52]  <whot^ well, if you wait until tomorrow evening (my time), you won't have to. I'll push it in the repositories then if I don't see any complaints
 [06:27:53]  <tjaalton> jcristau: same thing
 [06:28:16]  <tjaalton> whot: ok, maybe I'll have lunch instead of messing about with this ;)
 [06:28:54]  <whot^ hehe.
 [06:29:05]  <jcristau> hmm. food.
 [06:29:17]  <tjaalton> btw, how to prevent evdev from stealing my wacom?
 [06:29:34]  <tjaalton> the fdi file should be correct (it's from fedora anyway ;)
 [06:29:41]  <whot^ tell the wacom driver to steal it first?
 [06:30:27]  <whot> if linuxwacom grabs it. otherwise change the fdi file to not merge x11_driver for the tablet
 [06:31:21]  <tjaalton> does fedora ship the 10-x11-input.fdi that hal has?
 [06:32:34]  <tjaalton> anyway, stuff to test in the evening..
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[06:34:12]  <whot> tjaalton: http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/XInput.h should have all the XI2 bits removed (untested)
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[06:47:41]  <NewBiee> how to save window as bmp (bitmap)
 [06:47:45]  <NewBiee> ?
 [06:57:33]  <NewBiee> I there any alternate of SetLayeredWindowAttributes() function of Win32 in X..or anyother work around ????
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[07:14:57]  <tjaalton> whot: yep, that made libXi to build
 [07:22:03]  <tjaalton> dropped watch_props from xinput, then it built fine
 [07:22:26]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: i'll get back to you in a bit
 [07:22:40]  <daniels> currently attempting to unsubscribe from a few hundred mailing lists that some fucking twat signed me up to
 [07:23:06]  <daniels> if you want to complain, izanbardprince.blogspot.com is the delinquent responsible
 [07:25:54]  <tjaalton> whot: hehehe.. the new evdev seems a little bit trigger happy to me
 [07:26:20]  <tjaalton> every keypress I get two charactes, and keyup gives one
 [07:26:25]  <tjaalton> -ers
 [07:26:51]  <tjaalton> that's evdev master
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[07:43:57]  <ndemir> what does xf86FlushInput do?
[07:44:23]  <daniels^ not much you generally need to worry about
 [07:45:20]  <ndemir> If i use it, X freezes
[07:45:44]  <ndemir> daniels: i mean the next function does not start
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[07:46:15]  <daniels> tjaalton: yeah, that's because you still have kbd+mouse
 [07:46:23]  <daniels> ndemir: yeah, that sounds about right ... don't use it
 [07:46:40]  <daniels> tjaalton: cf. <20080814044337.GA11632@emu> on xorg@
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[07:49:10]  <tjaalton> daniels: right, missed that. now it works
 [07:50:09]  <Dr_Jakob+ when you have time, I was wondering about the hotel prices and such for XDS2008?
 [07:51:37]  <NewBiee> I there any alternate of SetLayeredWindowAttributes() function of Win32 in X..or anyother work around ???? Help!
 [07:56:38]  <tjaalton> hmm, ctrl-c kills the server
 [08:01:12]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: not cheap. :\
 [08:01:46]  <daniels> tjaalton: yeah, i think we just need to ignore SIGQUIT when we're in the VT
 [08:02:48]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: trying to find one alternative around /w60 and one around ic110
 [08:07:38]  <Dr_Jakob^ ok...
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[08:13:10]  <ndemir> what happens if i set type_name XI_TOUCHSCREEN instead of XI_MOUSE or vice versa?
 [08:16:38]  <daniels^ nothing in terms of event processing, it's just a label to hint clients
 [08:16:56]  <ndemir> thanks daniels
 [08:18:01]  <ndemir> and one question daniels: i am writing "fprintf(stderr, "%s", "test")" in function input_read. But fprintf function does not output anything. why?
 [08:18:50]  <ndemir> daniels: input_read works when the device produces/outputs somethins, is that right, or am i wrong?
 [08:21:20]  <tjaalton> whot: IDP seems to work fine :)
 [08:21:25]  <tjaalton> with 1.5
 [08:21:32]  <daniels> ndemir: try a \n on the end of your fprintf, but just register your normal read function as with every other driver
 [08:21:47]  <daniels> it lets you know when there's any activity on your device, and then you just read out of it
 [08:22:40]  <ndemir^ how to register?
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[08:24:52]  <daniels> ndemir: look at EvdevProc and EvdevReadInput
 [08:26:09]  <daniels> also, jesus our event delivery is horrible
 [08:27:29]  <ndemir^ do you mean " pInfo->read_input = EvdevReadInput;" when you say about register?
 [08:28:05]  <whot> tjaalton: you're mixing kbd and evdev then
 [08:28:23]  <whot> see warning sent to ML
 [08:29:23]  <whot> ndemir: use xf86Msg(...) instead of fprintf, this way it'll end up in the logs too
 [08:36:51]  <whot> benjsc: if you get to it, permissions in synaptics are botched again
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[08:44:02]  <ndemir> whot or daniels: i am not sending mouse motion events in read_input, but it still moves. why?
 [08:44:24]  <ndemir> i am not sending with xf86PostMotionEvent, but mouse moves.
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[08:45:48]  <daniels> ndemir: because you've got another device which is already taking care of it -- evdev or mouse
 [08:45:51]  <daniels> look at Xorg.0.log
 [08:47:17]  <ndemir^ but how? i have a really simple xorg.conf and the ServerLayout is here:
 [08:47:19]  <ndemir> Section "ServerLayout"
 [08:47:19]  <ndemir>        Identifier      "Default Layout"
 [08:47:19]  <ndemir>        Screen          "Default Screen"
 [08:47:19]  <ndemir>        InputDevice      "necati"
 [08:47:19]  <ndemir> EndSection
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[08:47:32]  <ndemir> InputDevice "necati" ise here:
 [08:47:42]  <ndemir> Section "InputDevice"
 [08:47:42]  <ndemir>     Identifier "necati"
 [08:47:42]  <ndemir>     Driver "random"
 [08:47:42]  <ndemir> #   Option "Device" "/dev/touchscreen/wm97xx"
 [08:47:42]  <ndemir>         Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
 [08:47:43]  <ndemir> EndSection
 [08:48:01]  <ndemir> and the random driver does not send the motion events
 [08:50:03]  <whot^ does your mouse work?
 [08:50:15]  <ndemir> yes whot
 [08:50:30]  <ndemir> Xorg.log:
 [08:50:31]  <ndemir> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "<default keyboard>" (type: KEYBOARD)
 [08:50:31]  <ndemir> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "<default pointer>" (type: MOUSE)
 [08:50:31]  <ndemir> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "necati" (type: MOUSE)
 [08:50:46]  <ndemir> Xorg adds default pointer as MOUSE
 [08:50:55]  <ndemir> how can i disable this?
 [08:52:37]  <daniels> Option "AllowEmptyInput"
 [08:53:48]  <whot^ here's an idea: we agree that EVIOCGRAB is a BadThing in evdev
 [08:54:05]  <ndemir+ it still adds MOUSE as default pointer
 [08:54:15]  <whot> as a result we know that if you're trying to mix evdev and kbd you're gonna be busted anyway
 [08:54:34]  <whot> as a result we can check the config for a kbd device, and if there is none init the VCK with model evdev
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[08:54:50]  <whot> and the keyboard issues go up in a puff of smoke
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[09:05:18]  <ndemir> should i use callback
 [09:05:20]  <ndemir> ?
 [09:05:35]  <ndemir> for example; device->callback = EvdevProc
 [09:05:45]  <ndemir> should i use something like that?
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[09:06:23]  <whot> there's a callback field?
 [09:06:44]  <whot> nobody tells me anything these days :)
 [09:08:09]  <whot> ndemir: what are you actually trying to achieve?
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[09:09:23]  <ndemir> whot: i have a device /dev/touchscreen/wm97xx, and it is a touchscreen, and i know how to read it from. And i want to use it with X.
 [09:10:03]  <ndemir> i know how to read it from, and can learn where the pointer is, and i want to use it with X.
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[09:11:04]  <whot> ndemir: ah, ic. get the evdev driver and slot your stuff in instead. that's the best approach.
 [09:13:31]  <ndemir^ i get the simple xf86-input-random driver from you git arhive and trying with it.
 [09:14:51]  <daniels+ EVIOCGRAB> ACK
 [09:15:07]  <whot> ndemir: that one is just to illustrate how things fit together. looking at evdev has two benefits
 [09:15:19]  <whot> 1. you see all the details that actually matter
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[09:15:59]  <whot> ndemir: 2. you get a feel for the evdev driver and can become a contributor :)
 [09:20:17]  * mlankhorst is trying to get a feel for the radeon driver, failing.
 [09:27:48]  <whot^ radeon 25 KLOC. evdev 1.5 KLOC. much easier to understand. maybe you should start hacking input?
 [09:27:56]  * whot is on a recruiting trip
 [09:28:33]  <mlankhorst^ But input already does what I need it to do.
 [09:29:40]  <mlankhorst> I'm interested in hacking on 3d because I would like to play games on wine without blobs. :-)
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[09:31:18]  <whot> mlankhorst: d'oh. we're clearly too good then :) maybe I should break things.
 [09:32:08]  <mlankhorst^ Hold on, there's one thing I would be interested in.
 [09:32:28]  <mlankhorst> Relative cursor positioning.
 [09:32:54]  <whot^ uhm. like a mouse does for example?
 [09:33:18]  <whot> pretty popular concept, that :)
 [09:33:48]  <mlankhorst> Some games like shooters need it.
 [09:33:53]  <ndemir> is it a must to use callback? why am i asking this? because read_input does not work. :)
 [09:35:03]  <whot> mlankhorst: yeah, that's a bit of an issue. the current solution is horrid, the correct solution not yet implemented.
 [09:35:37]  <whot> ndemir: the server calls your callback when data is available. so you don't have to wait in the driver, which is usually a bad idea in a single-threaded server.
 [09:35:45]  <mlankhorst> wiki.winehq.org/DInput
 [09:35:58]  <whot^ XInput 2.0 :)
 [09:37:07]  <mlankhorst> I have absolutely no idea if the reference windows implementation clips cursors to a single window or not.
 [09:38:25]  <mlankhorst> whot: Does it already have the relative positioning?
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[09:40:35]  <daniels> whot: as i just emailed, i think the fix is to tag valuator data in xi3 as abs/rel, and then just shove rel down the wire when that's what we receive
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[09:42:33]  <whot> mlankhorst: not yet :)
 [09:42:48]  <whot> daniels: i thought we're doing that for XI 2
 [09:43:08]  <whot> after we ditch the XI 1 events
 [09:43:31]  <mlankhorst^ It might be a good initial project for me to get started with xorg development.
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[09:44:50]  <mlankhorst> Anyway brb, shopping.
 [09:47:00]  <daniels> whot: oh, if the proto's not set in stone, i'm all for it :)
 [09:47:08]  <daniels> any comments on the XSelectExtendedInput()?
 [09:47:51]  <whot^ i'm hoping to catch you and interested others at XDS to set it in stone
 [09:48:56]  <whot> i'd vote for what XiSelectEvent does. either specific devices, or AllDevices
 [09:49:28]  <daniels^ i'm sure we can find a beer coaster somewhere in edinburgh
 [09:49:46]  <whot^ can't be much worse than whatever xkb was designed on
 [09:50:52]  <daniels^ roughly sketched in vomit on an alleyway, afaict
 [09:52:53]  <ajax> cjb: i don't actually know anything.  i just have a very very large hash table that i dump everything into.
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[10:35:34]  <ndemir> when an event occuts read_input function does not work. somebody help?
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[10:37:46]  <ndemir> whot, help help, i am driving crazy
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[11:13:51]  <ndemir> where do i make mistake? why read_input does not work when the device produces something.
 [11:20:21]  <mlankhorst> whot: Still around?
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[14:10:48]  <reduz> hi people, an SDL app died which was capturing the mouse and i have no mouse in X
 [14:10:55]  <reduz> how can i restore the mouse?
 [14:11:14]  <reduz> also i mean, isn't this a bug/design flaw in X?
 [14:11:58]  <daniels> it's a bug in xfree86-dga, yes
 [14:12:30]  <ajax> i really should track that down
 [14:12:43]  <ajax> since i'll be shipping dga until heat death in rhel <= 5
 [14:13:26]  <ajax> enterprise software!  it sucks.
 [14:13:39]  <reduz> i remember this happening since like, ever though.. at some point running an SDL app again and exiting properly somehow fixed it, but now even that doesn't do it
 [14:15:17]  <ajax> there are lots of old bugs in X, yes.
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[14:17:22]  <daniels> CHRIST
 [14:18:31]  <ajax> yeah?
 [14:18:53]  <daniels^ p.fd.o/~daniels/dga-client-death.diff
 [14:19:37]  <ajax> absinthe all around
 [14:19:54]  <ajax> i thought DGASelectInput(foo, 0, 0) would do that for you though
 [14:20:01]  <ajax> clearly not
 [14:20:43]  <daniels> nope
 [14:21:25]  <drago01> yeah that sucks when qemu decides to die an takes my mouse with it
 [14:21:32]  <drago01> *take
 [14:21:45]  <daniels> well, if anyone wants to test that patch, please feel free
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[14:30:13]  <bobbens> reduz: umouse should fix that, it does here
 [14:30:23]  <bobbens> it's just an SDL app that grabs mouse and releases it
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[14:41:30]  <daniels>     if(DGAClients[stuff->screen] != client)
 [14:41:30]  <daniels>         return DGAErrorBase + XF86DGADirectNotActivated;
 [14:41:30]  <daniels>     REQUEST_SIZE_MATCH(xXDGASelectInputReq);
 [14:41:30]  <daniels>   
[14:41:30]  <daniels>     if(DGAClients[stuff->screen] == client)
 [14:41:33]  <daniels>         DGASelectInput(stuff->screen, client, stuff->mask);
 [14:41:35]  <daniels> dga is definitely awesome.
 [14:43:26]  <daniels> ajax: updated patch on annarchy which should be rather more complete
 [14:43:58]  <ajax> it certainly inspires awe
 [14:46:26]  <daniels^ in much the same way that 'impressive' is merely 'leaves an impression'
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[15:55:08]  <cjb> agd5f: Your PLL patch doesn't make my flicker regression go away; it gets me back to the not-great 804/27/3 timings.  Can I reopen?
 [15:55:47]  <agd5f^ maybe I selected teh wrong flag
 [15:55:55]  <agd5f> hold on lemme check
 [15:58:41]  <cjb^ it does have an effect, it's just that it's the same one as I got with "ref_div > best_ref_div"
 [15:58:56]  <cjb> which isn't as good as the original behavior was that led to 1072/27/4 was.
 [15:59:09]  <agd5f^ yeah, I think i picked the wrong flag.  I'll sort it out
 [15:59:22]  <cjb> thanks.  can I reopen the bug and retest it once you commit?
 [15:59:29]  <agd5f> sure
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[16:10:26]  <agd5f> cjb: are you sure you don't have an old patch floating around?  I tested here and I get 1072/27/4
 [16:10:58]  <cjb> oh, that's odd.  I did try to make sure, but will check again.
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[16:16:21]  <cjb> agd5f: nope, still 804.  I blew away my tree and did a fresh clone.
 [16:23:05]  <agd5f^ can you try this patch and pastebin the subsequent log? http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/cjb.diff
 [16:24:40]  <cjb> yup, sure
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[16:38:39]  <cjb> agd5f: http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/xorg-flicker4.log
 [16:40:08]  <cjb> hm, doesn't have your ErrorF("flags: 0x%x\n", flags); in
 [16:40:08]  <agd5f^ this doesn't have any of the output in it.  check to make sure you installed int eh right place
 [16:40:34]  * cjb boggles.  moment.
 [16:41:03]  <agd5f> default is /usr/local unless you override with --prefix=
 [16:41:25]  <cjb> I've been copying into /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers.
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[16:45:40]  <cjb> agd5f: sigh, it's all good, sorry for the noise
 [16:45:58]  <agd5f^ cool
 [16:46:03]  <cjb> I ended up with a stale radeon_drv.so in /usr/lib64/xorg/modules, where it was preferred to the one in /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers
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[16:46:19]  <cjb> it's a good job xorg.log tells me where it's loading extensions from :)
 [16:46:40]  <airlied^ lib64 vs lib ;-)
 [16:46:54]  <cheeseboy> how do you check for regression?
 [16:46:55]  <cjb> airlied: no, modules/ vs. modules/drivers
 [16:46:57]  <mlankhorst^ My error was worse
 [16:47:00]  <daniels> cheeseboy: erratically
 [16:47:06]  <cjb> airlied: but that would suck too :)
 [16:47:11]  <mlankhorst> I install xserver as user, so I tried to run as root
 [16:47:14]  <daniels> cheeseboy: rendercheck + xts5 if you're bored
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[16:47:27]  <mlankhorst> Took a time before I realized what the cause of the permissions problem was..
 [16:47:32]  <cheeseboy> daniels ?
 [16:48:44]  <daniels^ rendercheck checks rendering.  xts5 checks a lot of stuff.
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[16:54:28]  <cheeseboy> daniels, test ever end ..
 [16:55:33]  <daniels> what?
 [16:55:46]  <cheeseboy> its seems to be looping forever
 [16:56:03]  <daniels> it doesn't finish in seconds.
 [16:56:31]  <cheeseboy> was a few minutes
 [16:56:51]  <cheeseboy> saw same thing in terminal like 5 times
 [16:56:59]  <daniels> yes, it takes ages.
 [16:57:14]  <daniels> i'm running it on an 800mhz arm cortex-a8 at work (quicker than you'd think); it's been running for three days or so.
 [16:57:55]  <cheeseboy> thats long time..
 [16:58:02]  <stillunknown> rendercheck takes more than a day on most computers
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[16:59:27]  <cheeseboy> well I know theres a bug in xorg and really want to get it fixed but don't know how :(
 [16:59:58]  * cjb wonders whether we continue searching for extensions such that it would be possible to stick "Warning:  /foo/bar/drv.so was found before /foo/drv.so and is being used, you might not have meant this." in the log.
 [17:00:27]  <ajax> we could but don't.
 [17:00:29]  <daniels> cjb: bonus points for last-[cm]time-wins.
 [17:00:30]  * cjb further wonders whether anyone (proprietary drivers?) _intentionally_ ships a driver that has the same name as another one and causes the older one to be shadowed by being first in the search path.
 [17:00:44]  <cjb> maybe libGL.so?
 [17:00:52]  <ajax> nvidia does their own libglx
 [17:01:09]  <daniels> on debian at least, this involves diverting the system one away, so it's not relying on search path order
 [17:01:12]  <ajax> for reasons never satisfactorily explained to me, since drivers are perfectly capable of loading extensions.
 [17:01:18]  <cjb> yeah.  and do they ship it earlier in the search path than nv/mesa's, or do they replace it?
 [17:01:28]  <cjb> ah.
 [17:01:31]  <daniels> cheeseboy: if you can debug and fix it yourself (if it crashes, attach gdb from a remote computer -- there's a debugging page on the wiki), that's great, elase we'll get to it at some point
 [17:03:08]  <cheeseboy> gdb?
 [17:03:26]  <daniels> http://www.google.com/search?q=gdb
 [17:04:04]  <daniels> sorry to sound harsh, but you'll note that your bug number is #17126; you'll forgive us if we can't just drop everything to figure out why your machine is crashing.
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[17:05:40]  <rfungy> hello
 [17:05:44]  <rfungy> anyone awake atm?
 [17:05:51]  <drago01> no
 [17:06:02]  <rfungy> can i ask a question here about a problem i been having with x/xorg/x?
 [17:06:08]  <ajax> "how do we check for regression"
 [17:06:11]  <ajax> man.  if only we did.
 [17:06:15]  <cjb> daniels: haha
 [17:06:19]  <rfungy> this problem has been happening for the past month
 [17:06:29]  <rfungy> is this the right place to ask?
 [17:06:35]  <mlankhorst> no
 [17:06:45]  <mlankhorst> (But I bet he will ask anyway, sigh)
 [17:06:49]  <rfungy> i tried in #xorg but its been dead for the past month
 [17:07:02]  <rfungy> this channel has been MUCH MICH more helpful in the past if you can believe it
 [17:07:12]  <mlankhorst> Still not the right place to ask..
 [17:07:21]  <rfungy^ whats the right place to go to?
 [17:07:27]  <rfungy> i dont want to piss anyone off
 [17:07:48]  <mlankhorst> I would start by using a search engine to see if the issue has been raised before.
 [17:08:14]  <rfungy^ yes, i thoroughly searched through google for the problem and have not found anything unfortunately
 [17:09:03]  <rfungy> it could be that my searching skills suck balls but everything that i found and tried didnt help
 [17:09:08]  <rfungy> what would be the next step?
 [17:09:23]  <mlankhorst> Determine: What has changed a month before.
 [17:11:40]  <rfungy> it was always like this since i installed xorg
 [17:13:39]  <daniels^ our bug tracker is http://bugs.freedesktop.org
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[17:15:07]  <daniels> and also http://bugs.x.org, as of now
 [17:15:17]  <ajax> ooh, shinies.
 [17:15:33]  <rfungy> whoa nelly
 [17:15:40]  <rfungy> how do you guys take care of all these bugs?
 [17:15:48]  <daniels^ poorly
 [17:15:56]  <rfungy> not enough man power?
 [17:16:00]  <ajax> not even close.
 [17:16:11]  <ajax> it's okay though, we have tequila for the pain.
 [17:16:20]  <rfungy> it probably takes a genius to understand how X works
 [17:16:27]  <daniels> put it this way: there seem to be as many active developers for a python app that lists bugs you've filed on launchpad, and they're begging for more.
 [17:16:28]  <mlankhorst> What pain? *slows down on tequila*
 [17:16:59]  <ajax> X is remarkably straightforward.
 [17:17:03]  <daniels> rfungy: there's a very blurry line between genius and nutcase.  of course, the blurring is often the result of absinthe.
 [17:17:23]  <ajax> especially since we keep deleting the stupid and/or redundant and/or egregiously overcomplicated stuff.
 [17:17:29]  <daniels^ eh.
 [17:17:38]  <daniels> x core proto is wonderfully straightforward, yes.
 [17:17:43]  <daniels> x as implemented by us is ... not.
 [17:18:02]  <ajax> okay, granted we're doing it in the wrong language.
 [17:18:10]  <daniels> though the deletion efforts are heroic and i'd like to sincerely commend anyone who's contributed to them.  champions all.
 [17:18:25]  <daniels> ajax: i swear to god if you mention objc i'm going to punch you through the internet
 [17:18:39]  <drago01> LOL
 [17:18:40]  <ajax> you'd prefer a lisp rant?
 [17:19:06]  <cjb> yup.  I find myself more pleased than annoyed when we deleted hundreds of lines and it broke the tinderbox a little.
 [17:19:06]  <daniels> ajax: yes, because then i'd just completely tune out and not even be bothered by it
 [17:19:23]  <ajax> i'm not entirely kidding though.  writing your own object system in C is a waste of time.
 [17:19:29]  <ajax> but.  we've got one anyway.
 [17:19:45]  <rfungy> why is it a waste of time?
 [17:19:49]  <daniels> ajax: yes, but using a language other than c is also a remarkably awful idea.
 [17:19:59]  <marcheu^ beware though, ajax is known for his punching abilities
 [17:20:17]  <drago01> no ajax uses guns ...
[17:20:21]  <daniels> ajax: i understand the pain that comes with c, but i'll take that predictable trudgery of dealing with memory management, linked lists, string handling, etc, over trying to work out why the toolchain's broken, or whatever.
 [17:20:24]  <ajax> whatever's handy really.
 [17:20:30]  <daniels> marcheu: i could take him any day, he's like half my size*
 [17:20:34]  <daniels> *: not strictly true
 [17:20:52]  <ajax^ sure.  i'm not suggesting a switch, just a general lament about the state of usable languages.
 [17:20:58]  <daniels> besides, to quote who i suspect was zack, he fights dirty, and my face is too beautiful to risk.
 [17:21:12]  <daniels> ajax: better the fail you know
 [17:21:20]  <marcheu^ your face might be out of reach though
 [17:21:20]  <ajax> you're only like a head taller than me, possibly a stone heavier (hah!).  the reach would do me in though.
 [17:21:52]  <daniels^ actually, thanks to my debargearseification efforts, i've dropped a bunch of weight recently, so it's really just down to reach and leverage.
 [17:22:14]  <daniels> kudos on the pun however, well played.
 [17:22:22]  <ajax> speaking of which, i should head home and hop on the bike soon.
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[17:24:07]  <ajax> anyway.  popping the discussion a bit.
 [17:24:23]  <ajax> i'm probably stockholmed at this point, but i really don't think X is that complex
 [17:25:39]  <daniels> there's nothing inherently complex in the problem space, and complexity of actual implementation is decreasing.
 [17:25:41]  <rfungy> you're a frickin genius then.. in the same league as von neumann
 [17:25:53]  <jcristau> well thankfully you don't need to understand all of it
 [17:26:18]  <daniels> there's bits we'll never be able to make incredibly simple (mpx focus management, anyone?), but those bits are at least quite well isolated and also well-documented, so we're not doing too badly on that front.
 [17:27:04]  <daniels> still a long ways to go until i can make a claim of straightforwardness.  our codebase is still a hell of a lot less tractable than, say, anything else ever written (except for arj, shithouse proprietary opengl es drivers, etc).
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[17:29:58]  <ajax> gcc isn't exactly cakewalk.
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[17:30:18]  <daniels> ajax: outlier.
 [17:31:18]  <daniels> put it this way: our (tractability of problem space) : (tractability of implementation) ratio is woefully low.  gcc, despite not having the world's most obvious codebase, has a vastly higher ratio there.
 [17:31:34]  <ajax> fair.
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[18:09:49]  <daniels> xkb :'(
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[18:13:12]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: how can I force mesa to build swrast? There is no use flag or such
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[18:35:27]  <svu> daniels, is there a reliable way to determine in runtime that current kbd driver is evdev?
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[19:01:58]  <dberkholz> wereHamster: swrast always builds
 [19:02:07]  <dberkholz> assuming you're on 7.1*
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[19:13:56]  <cheeseboy> :(
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[19:16:00]  <whot> svu: you mean from inside the server?
 [19:17:12]  <whot> the ddx can, but it's - discouraged.
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[19:21:05]  <svu> whot, no, from the userland
 [19:21:08]  <svu> from client
 [19:21:44]  <whot^ oh. no, not that I'm aware of.
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[19:25:24]  <svu> neither am i
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[19:28:31]  <cheeseboy> you have an svn or a cvs?
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[19:40:26]  <whot> cheeseboy: git
 [19:40:27]  <DrNick> the multi-second delays and screen flickering will drive me mad one day
 [19:55:09]  <whot> hmm. I mustn't have used ctrl+c for the whole day yesterday. this is a bit annoying.
 [19:55:44]  <whot> s/mustn't/<insert grammatically correct item>
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[02:43:16]  <ndemir> hi
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[02:44:10]  <ndemir> whot: is there a specific format for X server to trigger read_input? because when i use /dev/input/mice, it triggers read_input function, but when i use my touchscreen device, read_input function does not work.
 [02:46:55]  <whot^ I guess the device doesn't provide data then.
 [02:49:03]  <ndemir^ no it provides data, when i use "cat /dev/device", i can see the data.
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[02:50:22]  <whot> ndemir: read_input isn't triggered at all? or just no events posted
 [02:51:56]  <ndemir^ sorry, i did not understand you. i mean, when i touch the touchscreen the device provides data. i can see with "cat /dev/device".
[02:52:22]  <whot^ what happens if you put a breakpoint on read_input
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[02:54:33]  <ndemir> i did not put a breakpoint, because i am compiling the source on my machine and running on an embedded board. but i am using xf86Msg(....) to see if read_input works, and it does not seem to work.
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[02:56:11]  <Sonicadvance> Question, How do you set Anti-Aliasing using GLX? I've tried doing it multiple ways and they either crash or don't work.Anyone have an example or anything that will help me?
 [02:57:55]  <whot> ndemir: unconditional xf86Msg?
 [02:59:43]  <ndemir> yes unconditional. xf86Msg is at the beginning of the read_input function.
 [03:00:14]  <whot^ don't know then. only thing I could think of is that the SIGIO is not being triggered for some reason
 [03:00:33]  <whot> replace xf86AddEnabledDevice with AddEnabledDevice, this should enable polling
 [03:01:21]  <ndemir> ok whot, i will try it.
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[03:09:13]  <ndemir> whot: it didnt work, do you have another suggestion?
 [03:10:51]  <whot^ are you sure the device is opened, etc?
 [03:13:18]  <ndemir> SYSCALL(pInfo->fd = open(pRandom->device, O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK));
 [03:13:38]  <ndemir> whot
 [03:13:56]  <whot^ and device is set to the right path? fd is valid?
 [03:14:12]  <ndemir> yes it is valid.
 [03:14:23]  <ndemir> if not, it should give me an error
 [03:14:47]  <ndemir>     SYSCALL(pInfo->fd = open(pRandom->device, O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK));
 [03:14:47]  <ndemir>     if (pInfo->fd == -1)
 [03:14:47]  <ndemir>     {
 [03:14:47]  <ndemir>         xf86Msg(X_ERROR, "%s: failed to open %s.\n",
 [03:14:47]  <ndemir>                 pInfo->name, pRandom->device);
 [03:14:47]  <ndemir>         pInfo->private = NULL;
 [03:14:49]  <ndemir>         xfree(pRandom);
 [03:14:52]  <ndemir>         xf86DeleteInput(pInfo, 0);
 [03:14:53]  <ndemir>         return NULL;
 [03:14:55]  <ndemir>     }
 [03:15:43]  <whot^ dunno then tbh
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[03:16:18]  <ndemir> ok thanks whot
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[03:18:04]  <daniels> and you're sure that code block is getting executed?
 [03:18:39]  <daniels> shouldn't need to wrap it in SYSCALL() anyway
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[03:24:06]  <ndemir> daniels sorry; please give me more information. i couldnt understand.
 [03:24:32]  <whot^ pInfo->fd ... is enough, no need for SYSCALL() around it
 [03:25:47]  <ndemir> does it make different?
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[03:26:48]  <whot> ndemir: no
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[03:28:36]  <ndemir> daniels: i am sure because control_proc functions works and then the DEVICE_ON case works.
 [03:30:35]  <whot^ hardcode the device path to /dev/input/mice and then see if anything happens.
 [03:30:53]  <whot> then hardcode to the device path and try again. if nothing happens, it's the device itself
 [03:31:01]  <whot> if neither works, its a bug in the driver
 [03:31:13]  <ndemir> ok i will test now. whot.
 [03:32:22]  <ndemir> whot: but the default pointer uses the /dev/input/mice.
 [03:32:39]  <whot^ you should still get a spew in the log
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[03:41:04]  <ndemir> should i use xf86OpenSerial?
 [03:41:09]  <ndemir> whot
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[03:44:28]  <whot> ndemir: if you want to
 [03:53:41]  <ndemir^ is there another way to write an input driver? :)
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[03:57:14]  <whot> ndemir: ideally you'd write the kernel driver and expose the info through the kernel event interface
 [03:58:35]  <ndemir^ i know, but i wanted to write a x driver. maybe i should write a kernel driver. do you know a simple tutorial for beginning?
 [04:00:27]  <whot^ pretty sure google will spit out a few
 [04:01:14]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: nvm, it was another problem. The fix I need isn't in gentoo's stable mesa yet :(
 [04:01:22]  <ndemir> but i still wonder why X server does not trigger the read_input function!
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[04:40:43]  <Sonicadvance> so, adding GLX_SAMPLE_BUFFERS_ARB, 16, GLX_SAMPLES_ARB, 1,  to the end of my attribute list doesn't allow me to have Anti-Aliasing in my program
 [04:41:08]  <Sonicadvance> Which I tried before and it didn't work. Is there any other way to get Anti-Aliasing when using GLX?
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[05:01:37]  <JohnFlux4> Morning all
 [05:02:06]  <JohnFlux4> I'm interested in trying again at getting Xorg to cross-compile out of the box
 [05:02:53]  <JohnFlux4> There are various patches floating around, but it seems that these are considered too hackish to commit
 [05:05:00]  <daniels> rather
 [05:05:17]  <daniels> i'm not going to merge anything that manually invokes the compiler
 [05:05:23]  <daniels> autotools needs to get fixed for that.
 [05:05:40]  <daniels> more than happy to review and merge anything that doesn't involve that, though
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[05:10:10]  <JohnFlux4> daniels: is it going to be possible to do this without fixing autotools?
 [05:14:41]  <MrCooper> Sonicadvance: is the GLX visual you're using multisampling capable?
 [05:16:22]  <tjaalton> whot: still on schedule with the IDP backports?-)
 [05:17:56]  <wereHamster> Sonicadvance: run glxinfo and then look in the 'ms' column
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[05:22:55]  <Sonicadvance> hm
 [05:23:27]  <Sonicadvance> 8 red/green/blue, and 24 for depth size
 [05:25:08]  <Sonicadvance> Guess I'm not sure how to read from the ms column since it has two sub columns under it?
 [05:26:30]  <tjaalton> whot: sorry, didn't notice that they were applied already
 [05:27:08]  * Sonicadvance pokes wereHamster
[05:29:16]  <wereHamster^ glxinfo -t ;)
 [05:29:29]  <Sonicadvance> oh snaps information
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[05:32:34]  <wereHamster> also, run glXGetFBConfigAttrib(..., GLX_SAMPLE_BUFFERS_ARB, ...) on the fbconfigs that glXChooseFBConfig() returns, to make sure the features you need are indeed supported
 [05:33:08]  <Sonicadvance> Not using FBconfigs
 [05:33:13]  <wereHamster> visuals?
 [05:33:17]  <Sonicadvance> aye
 [05:34:37]  <wereHamster> well, then, do the same on the visual you select
 [05:40:43]  <MrCooper> Sonicadvance: so, does any of the visuals listed by glxinfo have non-0 multisampling values? :)
 [05:41:26]  <Sonicadvance> got some in both the MS Num and MS buf columns
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[05:45:02]  <Sonicadvance> hm, crash when trying to do GLXFBConfig *Config = glXChooseFBConfig(GLWin.dpy, 0, attrListDbl, &numelements);
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[05:47:47]  <Sonicadvance> http://pastebin.ca/1172730 <-- Code block if it helps
 [05:48:43]  <wereHamster> eh, so you're using fbconfigs.
[05:49:01]  <Sonicadvance> vi = glXChooseVisual(GLWin.dpy, GLWin.screen, attrListDbl);
 [05:49:05]  <Sonicadvance> I usually use that
 [05:49:16]  <Sonicadvance> I don't care for FBConfigs
 [05:49:43]  <wereHamster> print the visual ID that your code selects and then compare that with glxinfo output
 [05:50:08]  <wereHamster> or use glXGetFBConfigAttrib() to check whether the fbconfig supports that you need
 [05:55:39]  <batchy> why would my input module' TearDownProc gets never called ? did i forgot someting ?
 [05:57:41]  <daniels> input modules never get removed, as it stands
 [05:57:50]  <daniels> JohnFlux2: possible without fixing autotools? no, not really ...
 [06:03:28]  <Sonicadvance> I can do "GLX_SAMPLE_BUFFERS_ARB, 1, GLX_SAMPLES_ARB, 1," and it works >> 1x anti-aliasing...right
 [06:08:04]  <MrCooper^ have you tried the maximum numbers listed by glxinfo?
 [06:09:35]  <Sonicadvance> if I put either above 1, it crashes
 [06:09:46]  <Sonicadvance> well, not crashes, falls back to my single buffer one
 [06:13:51]  <MrCooper> are you using Git of mesa and xserver or something older?
 [06:14:15]  <MrCooper> there were some multisampling related fixes recently
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[06:16:16]  <Sonicadvance> I'm using Nvidia Geforce 8600GS with Proprietary Drivers, Xserver-Xorg 7.3
 [06:17:10]  <MrCooper> ah, try #nvidia then, and no thanks for wasting our time
 [06:17:25]  <Sonicadvance> ...
 [06:17:44]  <MrCooper> their GLX implementation is all their own
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[06:19:22]  <daniels> MrCooper: dude, harsh
 [06:19:39]  <MrCooper> says you? :)
 [06:20:14]  <MrCooper> the master of harshness
 [06:21:08]  <daniels> i don't disagree that it was a waste of time, but most of the time users don't realise what's going on
 [06:21:17]  <daniels> i also don't disagree that i'm occasionally harsh
 [06:21:33]  <MrCooper> yeah, maybe I overreacted
 [06:22:14]  <daniels> c'est la vie
 [06:22:50]  <airlied> Daniel McHarsh of the clan mcharsh.
 [06:23:04]  <MrCooper> there can be only one
 [06:23:21]  <MrCooper> err, wrong Mc
 [06:24:34]  <maniac103> daniels: that Ryan guy is really hilarious ... I wonder what stuff he smokes
 [06:24:41]  <daniels> MrCooper: meh, it's all the same ;)
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[06:24:59]  <daniels> maniac103: probably raspberry cordial and jell-o
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[07:16:42]  <wereHamster> is there a known problem with stencil buffer and screen resizing? I have a compiz plugin that uses stencil buffer, and everything works fine when VGA --same-as LVDS, but as soon as I do VGA --below LVDS it stops working.
 [07:19:48]  <wereHamster> if I do VGA --pos 0x100 then stencil partially works (the window flickers between two colors, meaning that stencil works for one frame and then stops working again when the next frame is drawn)
 [07:20:07]  <daniels> which driver?
 [07:20:39]  <wereHamster> intel from 2.4 branch, mesa dri driver from 7_0 branch
 [07:22:23]  <Dr_Jakob^ which hw?
 [07:22:56]  <wereHamster> i965 chip
 [07:23:36]  <Dr_Jakob> hmm, I don't have first hand experience with that type of chip (only i915) and that atleast uses a packed depth/stencil buffer
 [07:23:44]  <Dr_Jakob> 8bit stencil 24bit depth.
 [07:24:15]  <wereHamster> compiz uses this visual: 0x23 24 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
 [07:24:38]  <Dr_Jakob> looks good.
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[07:25:14]  <Q-FUNK> it seems that annarchy doesn't have up-to-date SSH keys
 [07:25:37]  <Q-FUNK> i managed to push my changes to git, but release.sh fails because annarchy doesn't know my key
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[07:27:10]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: it seems to be using packed as well.
 [07:27:47]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: use ssh -v -v -v to verify you're actually attempting to use the correct username and password.
 [07:28:11]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: it sounds like a bug in the buffer handeling. Most likely in the mesa driver.
 [07:28:35]  <Dr_Jakob> give the intel guys a ping
 [07:28:44]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: I thought that password logins were disabled?
 [07:31:02]  <daniels^ s/password/key/
 [07:31:38]  <wereHamster> I'll start grepping 1024 in the mesa source. with --pos 0x1023 stencil works, after 1024 it stops
 [07:33:30]  <Dr_Jakob^ the other screen don't happen to have 1024 in width?
 [07:33:55]  <wereHamster> both screens 1280x1024
 [07:34:05]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: ok.  found.  I'm on my work laptop, which uses a different username than my fd.o account.  however "release.sh --user q-funk video oldversion newversion" fails
 [07:34:08]  <wereHamster> shall I test with different sizes?
 [07:34:30]  <JohnFlux2> are there any blogs related to xorg?
 [07:34:40]  <JohnFlux2> the main xorg blog site seems to be dead
 [07:35:13]  <jcristau^ like planet.x.org?
 [07:35:15]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: no, its just that you get 2048 in height, that can't be a coincidence
 [07:35:26]  <Dr_Jakob> I mean't to ask about height.
 [07:35:41]  <wereHamster^ with 1280x1024 + 800x600 it doesn't work either
 [07:35:42]  <Q-FUNK> ö_Jak....  driver oldversion newversion
 [07:36:02]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: okay...
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[07:37:07]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: does, the plugin treat the screens diffrent if you two screens completly clear of each other vs when two screens partly on top of each other.
 [07:37:16]  <wereHamster^ do you think it could have to do with CRTCs? On which crts the outputs are?
 [07:37:47]  <JohnFlux2> jcristau:  http://xorg.freedesktop.org/blog/  seems to be dead. There is http://planet.freedesktop.org/   but not sure how X related it is
 [07:37:55]  <Dr_Jakob> I'm thinking that you might be clearing the stencil by mistake.
 [07:38:04]  <JohnFlux2> jcristau:  There's also http://keithp.com/blog/  of course
 [07:38:06]  <wereHamster> Dr_Jakob: no, the plugin does 'fill stencil buffer where the window is located, draw a texture'
 [07:38:19]  <Q-FUNK> daniels: I also tried setting the user in ~/.ssh/config but it still doesn't resolve it.  apparently, release.sh doesn't like the way --user q-funk comes
 [07:39:52]  <Q-FUNK> it barfs with "incorrect parameters" the minute I add --user q-funk to the stanza
 [07:39:54]  <Dr_Jakob> wereHamster: hmm okay, I think we have reach the end of my knowlage of the driver and intel hw, ping the intel guys, they are probably sleeping now.
 [07:40:57]  <jcristau> Q-FUNK: it's a freaking shell script. how hard can it be to figure it out?
 [07:44:09]  <daniels+ okay, so fix the script.
 [07:45:39]  <daniels> JohnFlux2: yeah, the xorg blog isn't coming back.  atm, planet.x.org is the best we have, really.  not everything is x-related, but still.
 [07:54:59]  <wereHamster> Dr_Jakob: already did. Just had a hard lockup when changing the screen size with randr
 [07:55:38]  <Dr_Jakob^ hmm okay, sounds like pointers get mixed up..
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[08:09:26]  <wereHamster> will there be another mesa 7.0 release? There is at least one fix that isn't yet in any official release
 [08:10:35]  <daniels> honestly, fuck knows
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[08:43:11]  <MrCooper> daniels: if you're alluding to the 7.1 release, has anyone actually asked Brian or on the mesa3d-dev list? Maybe he doesn't scan xorg commit/announce mails for rants directed at him...
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[09:10:05]  <Thunderbird> hi
 [09:10:28]  <Thunderbird> can someone tell me the status of 'redirected GL rendering'
 [09:10:33]  <Thunderbird> can someone tell me the status of 'redirected GL rendering' in open source drivers?
 [09:11:04]  <Thunderbird> I have only access to nvidia and some old radeon board and there are lots of wine bug reports about this and I'm not sure what to tell to people
 [09:11:14]  <MrCooper^ it requires DRI2, which is being reworked not to be TTM specific
 [09:11:18]  <Thunderbird> I believe some recent intel drivers offer it but I'm not sure which and what other drivers might offer it
 [09:11:42]  <Thunderbird> so the intel gem driver should support it and for the rest nothing right now?
 [09:11:48]  <Thunderbird> (except for closed source nvidia)
 [09:12:33]  <MrCooper> right, even intel mainline isn't quite there yet though
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[09:13:31]  <MrCooper> what are the Wine bug reports about, just visual artifacts when running 3D apps with a compositing manager?
 [09:13:33]  <Thunderbird> in what timeframe do you think it will be supported? (3 months ?)
 [09:13:57]  <Thunderbird> they are about 3d rendering not showing up
 [09:14:16]  <Thunderbird> we use redirected GL rendering to do some form of windowed 3d rendering
 [09:14:25]  <MrCooper> no idea, you'd have to ask krh / the intel driver developers
 [09:14:45]  <Thunderbird> we make a window offscreen using composite and then copy the contents over to the window :(
 [09:15:11]  <MrCooper> I see
 [09:15:15]  <Thunderbird> it has to with lots of technical reasons; we have pixmaps as a very, very, very slow fall back
 [09:15:38]  <Thunderbird> so if you would run a program like Google Earth it won't show anything
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[09:15:57]  <MrCooper> actually GLXPixmaps should work about as well with DRI2
 [09:16:17]  <Thunderbird> it affects apps which do subwindow rendering
 [09:16:29]  <MrCooper^ hmm, could that explain the Sketchup corruption everybody's complaining about?
 [09:16:35]  <Thunderbird> can you perform direct rendering on pixmaps in DRI2? the nvidia drivers don't allow it
 [09:16:43]  <Thunderbird> yes Sketchup is also affected
 [09:16:49]  <MrCooper^ yeah, I think that should work
 [09:17:15]  <MrCooper> okay, that's good to know, thanks
 [09:19:49]  <MrCooper> Thunderbird: is there any Wine workaround for this problem?
 [09:19:59]  <Thunderbird> no :(
 [09:20:08]  <Thunderbird> I had some hack in the past but it is very, very ugly
 [09:20:18]  <Thunderbird> roughly it would create an X11 subwindow and reposition it
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[09:20:42]  <Thunderbird> but this can have issues in some rare cases and it can have drawing issues
 [09:21:03]  <Thunderbird> we only use a toplevel window so you have all sort of z-sorting issues
 [09:21:29]  <MrCooper> wouldn't it be better than random garbage though? :)
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[09:22:05]  <Thunderbird> sure, but alexandre doesn't allow it in wine
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[09:23:06]  <Thunderbird> we have had this code for about 2 years now and we expected to have more driver support at this point
 [09:23:59]  <MrCooper^ so what if the X server doesn't support Composite?
 [09:24:21]  <Thunderbird> we fall back to pixmap rendering then
 [09:24:47]  <MrCooper> well, you know we don't support that either without DRI2 :)
 [09:25:00]  <Thunderbird> it is slow as hell though on most drivers, we use indirect rendering :(
 [09:25:19]  <Thunderbird> to be honest I haven't tested it on a non-nvidia card (nvidia accelerates it)
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[09:59:56]  <JohnFlux2> I'm trying to compile kdrive but I get an error that it can't link against libXp
 [10:00:45]  <JohnFlux2> I think it is libtool that is pulling in the library
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[10:09:27]  <daniels> libXp, wtf?
 [10:09:56]  <JohnFlux2^ seems to be a X printing lirbary
 [10:09:57]  <JohnFlux2> library
 [10:10:25]  <daniels> yeah ...
 [10:10:28]  <JohnFlux2^ it works fine on my ubuntu box, but I get this libXp linking error on a redhat mahcine
 [10:10:29]  <JohnFlux2> machine
 [10:10:35]  <daniels> what exactly is attempting to link against it?
 [10:11:41]  <JohnFlux2^ it's the last linker stage - xorg
 [10:13:38]  <daniels> xorg should never attempting to be link against libXp, especially not now.
 [10:13:39]  <JohnFlux2^ sorry, I mean xserver
 [10:13:47]  <JohnFlux2> the xserver module
 [10:14:08]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: hmm, i wonder if pkg-config is looking in the wrong place
 [10:16:02]  <JohnFlux2> the dependancies come from pkg-config  right?
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[10:17:15]  <daniels> well, depends.  is -lXp on the link line? if not, then it's coming from libtool deps.
 [10:19:08]  <JohnFlux2^ there's no -lXp passed to libtool
[10:19:16]  <JohnFlux2> so it does seem to come from the libtool deps
 [10:19:51]  <daniels> grep libXp /usr/lib/*.la (or whereever your libtool files live)
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[10:30:52]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: nothing
[10:32:29]  <daniels> awesome
 [10:32:58]  <JohnFlux2^ (other than libXpm matches of course)
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[10:35:46]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: -lXp does get passed to the libtool command
 [10:38:39]  <JohnFlux2> ah this is when trying to build libXaw
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[11:01:15]  <daniels> JohnFlux2: fixed in master
 [11:04:05]  <JohnFlux2^ what was the problem?
 [11:04:09]  <JohnFlux2> just curious
 [11:04:20]  <jcristau> xaw8
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[11:13:21]  <daniels> JohnFlux2: some code which still used xprint existed
 [11:13:31]  <daniels> if you had libxp-dev installed in PKG_CONFIG_PATH, then it would attempt to use it
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[11:15:55]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: ah thanks
 [11:19:26]  <malc0+ I'm getting include/Makefile.am:3: BUILD_XAW8 does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
 [11:20:17]  <wereHamster> rerun autogen.sh
 [11:20:28]  <malc0> that's what I get when I run it
 [11:20:41]  <wereHamster> oh -.- me stupid
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[11:27:23]  <daniels> malc0: oops.  fixed.
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[12:49:18]  <daniels> libv: ping
 [12:49:29]  <daniels> what do you know about #259290 and its associated fix?
 [12:50:12]  <libv> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259290 is invalid :)
 [12:55:02]  <libv> if this is about the novell bugzilla one, it is from before my time, but what sort of information do you want me to provide here?
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[13:01:02]  <libv> ...
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[14:13:56]  <spstarr_work> Question: Does X use PS or PDF for its representation of output ?
 [14:14:17]  <spstarr_work> or will Galleon3D get us to mapping PS/PDF <-> GL?
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[14:15:36]  <drago01> spstarr_work: no
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[14:26:50]  <spstarr_work> drago01: so X cannot render the output representation to PS or PDF right now?
 [14:27:16]  <drago01^ X itself can't
 [14:27:45]  <drago01> but it should be possible the same way you create screenshots/screencasts
 [14:27:50]  <ajax> we had that.  we called it Xprint.
 [14:27:57]  <ajax> turns out it's a shit-terrible idea.
 [14:28:58]  <spstarr_work^ even though Mac OS X does it?
 [14:29:43]  <ajax> OSX's rendering API, from the app's perspective, is significantly different than ours.
 [14:30:08]  <daniels> libv: nevermind, sorry
 [14:30:14]  <spstarr_work> ajax: true
 [14:30:23]  <daniels> libv: was mainly wondering why it was private, more than anything
 [14:30:29]  <spstarr_work> ajax: But does it make sense for us to go down that path?
 [14:30:34]  <ajax> turning X into PDF is foolish.  turning something like cairo into any of (X, png, pdf, ...) is fine.
 [14:30:52]  <daniels> spstarr_work: os x has a vector-based rendering api, which means serialising to vector is useful for them.  we have a bitmap-based rendering api, which means serialising to vector is retarded for us.
 [14:33:05]  <spstarr_work> hmm
 [14:33:06]  <spstarr_work> ok
 [14:33:41]  <libv> daniels: same reason why most people don't see the security related bugs on fd.o
 [14:34:11]  <daniels^ they see them as soon as they're unembargoed, but sure, makes sense
 [14:35:21]  <libv> well, i think people just can't or couldn't be bothered with making this public
 [14:35:35]  <daniels> heh
 [14:35:35]  <jcristau^ i think the last batch wasn't made public :)
 [14:35:37]  <libv> i expect the patch in there to come from upstream anyway
 [14:35:59]  <libv> and it's just laziness
 [14:36:02]  <daniels> jcristau: oh? give me bug numbers and i'll fix it
 [14:36:59]  <jcristau^ 15222
 [14:38:32]  <daniels^ fixed
 [14:44:39]  <wereHamster> umm, when I start Xorg, it won't let me switch the VT using ctrl+alt+fx. Is that because of the recent evdev changes?
 [14:45:22]  <ajax> almost certainly.
 [14:45:36]  <ajax> (really do think not grabbing is a bad idea)
 [14:46:15]  <wereHamster> it wouldn't even let me do ctrl+alt+backspace to kill X :(
 [14:46:30]  <libv> ah, heh, i now looked at the changelog entry for this patch in the xserver version of that time
 [14:46:55]  <libv> if it had mentioned the CVE number then probably i wouldn't have been asked these questions now
 [14:47:53]  <libv> but then, most of us here wouldn't label the ability to segfault X as a "denial of service attack" either
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[14:58:28]  <daniels> wereHamster: ctrl-alt-bksp not working is generally not symptomatic of that
 [14:59:21]  <jcristau> vt switch not working is usually symptomatic of xkb failure
 [14:59:48]  <wereHamster> daniels: yep, sorry about that. Found 'error compiling keymap' in xorg.log
 [14:59:49]  <daniels> jcristau: yes, but ctrl-alt-backspace is in the default compat map
 [15:00:09]  <jcristau> yeah that one would work
 [15:14:54]  <wereHamster> under which circumstances does drmSetBusid() fail? Because of that DRI is disabled
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[15:26:30]  <cjb> woo, thanks to whoever's fixing up the video drivers.
 [15:26:46]  * ajax waves
 [15:27:01]  * cjb awards ajax a cookie with a gold star on
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[15:28:20]  <ajax> don't worry, i'll probably break them again in a moment
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[15:39:47]  <ajax> jesus xfree86
 [15:40:11]  <ajax> who thought ConfiguredMonitor was a good idea.
 [15:43:11]  <daniels^ glint and apm owners will be thrilled
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[15:43:42]  <ajax> really i'm just bored and waiting for a kernel build.
 [15:47:03]  <daniels> am i avoiding the subject or am i doing _philosophy_?
 [15:49:54]  <wereHamster> I just installed xserver+mesa+drm userspace library+xf86-video-intel from git and tried to use that with my existing kernel drm modules. Everything except of course GEM works, but opengl is _really_ slow. Does git require the latest kernel/drm modules to reasonably work?
 [15:53:12]  <libv> ah, this is the todo of #5386
 [15:55:21]  <ajax> yeah. tired of seeing it still open.
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[15:57:18]  <ilikenwf> howdy everyone
 [15:57:29]  <ilikenwf> i think i've found a small but annoying bug in the current git
 [15:58:03]  <ilikenwf> check out the transparency (or lack thereof) here...notice that these icons should all have transparent backgrounds...
 [15:58:04]  <ilikenwf> http://www.mattparnell.com/zen/error.jpg
 [15:58:35]  <ilikenwf> also, vlc acts up a bit when you go full screen, but if you take it down to normal size again and then back full screen, it will get normal eventually
 [15:58:40]  <ilikenwf> but the other error is more annoying
 [15:58:42]  <ilikenwf> http://www.mattparnell.com/zen/error.jpg
 [15:59:12]  <ajax> pretty sure that's never worked
 [15:59:24]  <ajax> and is as much a bug in the tray spec as anything to do with X itself
 [15:59:25]  <ilikenwf> it worked before for me
 [15:59:32]  <ilikenwf> i know it is
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[15:59:49]  <ilikenwf> but since it worked in the previous versions of x for me, i figured i'd tell someboddy here
 [16:01:17]  <ilikenwf> this is kde 3.9
 [16:01:35]  <ilikenwf> i don't really care a whole lot, but figured i'd ask if anyone knows of a patch or anythign
 [16:02:05]  <ajax> knowing which version of the X and the driver worked for you, and what you're running now, would be helpful.
 [16:03:08]  <Zeddie> <daniels> am i avoiding the subject or am i doing _philosophy_? <--- philosophy is fun :)
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[16:04:47]  <ilikenwf> the version of x and the driver would have been 1.4.2.1 for the server, 2.1.9.1 for the driver nv, although the blob worked too
 [16:04:59]  <ilikenwf> and i'm using the git version of both now
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[16:29:08]  <ilikenwf> well...i hope somebody knows about the transparency thing
 [16:29:12]  <ilikenwf> it'll die eventually
 [16:29:13]  <ilikenwf> oh well
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[18:03:04]  * CosmicPenguin discovers that HARDWARE_CURSOR_SOURCE_MASK_NOT_INTERLEAVED is not a popular kid at the dance
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[20:50:56]  <svu> tjaalton, ping
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[20:57:04]  <jcristau> svu: he went to sleep
 [20:58:58]  <svu> ok, I'll talk to him later. thanks!
 [21:00:33]  <jcristau> np
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[21:59:46]  <wereHamster> does the ringbuffer need to be mapped strictly uncached? Or is write-combining also ok?
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[03:19:53]  <sxpert> keithp, see my comment at the end ;-) http://softwareblogs.intel.com/2008/08/14/welcome-to-g45-better-but-still-imperfect/#comment-14635
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[03:40:05]  <daniels> sxpert: i'm sure a comment on a blog will cause intel to rethink their entire strategy and drop drm
 [03:40:29]  <sxpert^ heh, well one can only hope ,)
 [03:41:07]  <sxpert> that common sense sets in ;)
 [03:43:46]  <tjaalton> svu: I got your reply. maybe the problem needs wider discussion (bug 17160)
 [03:44:02]  <tjaalton> also, jp106 seems to have a similar issue
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[06:36:35]  <svu> daniels, ping
 [06:41:26]  <daniels^ hi
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[06:42:53]  <svu> daniels, I am inclined to introduce ruleset evdev
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[06:43:35]  <svu> daniels, if I do so - will you change your code to drop the rule "if driver is evdev use model evdev", instead "if driver is evdev, use ruleset evdev" ?
 [06:43:41]  <daniels> sure
 [06:44:08]  <svu> ok. it seems this is the list of all possible evils
 [06:44:14]  <svu> "least"
 [06:44:39]  <svu> for compatibility, I'll still leave the model "evdev" in "base"
 [06:44:46]  <svu> or drop it?
 [06:44:57]  <svu> (for safety)
 [06:46:15]  <daniels> compatibility would make the most sense, i think
 [06:48:08]  <svu> but in reality people would never use model evdev with base
 [06:48:20]  <svu> if the driver is evdev - they won't use base
 [06:48:39]  <svu> if the driver is not evdev - they should not be able to chose evdev model
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[06:55:44]  <daniels> sure, but configurations take a while to be changed
 [06:55:55]  <daniels> and as you know, libxklavier compiles on the client side :)
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[07:01:55]  <svu> daniels, well, sometimes I think enforcing sane changes is good;)
 [07:02:20]  <svu> BTW, I still don't understand whether we need evdev(abnt2) or not...
 [07:04:14]  <daniels> i think we'll end up needing abnt2 and pc106 models for the evdev ruleset, as they send different keycodes for some reason
 [07:05:48]  <svu> ok, I will add empty sections for a moment
 [07:05:54]  <svu> jp106 you mean?
 [07:06:52]  <svu> and I will do the same for thinkpadz60 as well, for uniformity
 [07:08:27]  <daniels> jp106, yeah
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[07:20:19]  <svu> daniels, if I commit the change in next 0.5hr - would you be able to have a  look?
 [07:20:56]  <daniels^ sure thing
 [07:21:40]  <svu^ I am leaving to SPb on Monday, so I would not like to leave the thing in unstable state, you know:)
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[07:31:41]  <daniels> heh
 [07:31:43]  <daniels> sure, np
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[07:33:03]  <tjaalton> thanks svu
 [07:33:21]  <svu^ do you have abnt2 keyboard btw?
 [07:33:33]  <tjaalton^ I wish ;)
 [07:33:42]  <daniels> likewise
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[07:33:59]  <svu> pity. Because keycodes/evdev(abnt2) needs some love - to fill the keycodes
 [07:34:34]  * svu probably should ask people in his blog to donate some abnt keyboard ;)
 [07:34:52]  <tjaalton^ I could make a package for the bug reporter to try and report back any problems
 [07:35:30]  <svu^ I am sure there will be problems - but he should be able to show us the keycodes
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[07:39:35]  <svu> daniels, the changes are there. would you please try?
 [07:40:06]  <svu> ghm why in gitweb that change is marked with the "master" yellow label???
 [07:40:15]  * svu is so stipud when it comes to git
 [07:41:37]  <teuf^ I think the label indicates that the HEAD of the master branch is set to this commit
 [07:42:11]  <svu^ what if there is no label?
 [07:42:21]  <svu> which branch is it then?
 [07:42:40]  <svu> the concepts of DVCS are too complex for me:)
 [07:42:48]  <teuf> not sure how gitweb is showing commits ;)
 [07:42:56]  <teuf> so I don't know
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[07:46:30]  <daniels> svu: think of master as the default branch in CVS
 [07:46:46]  <daniels> so you can have xkbdata-0.9-branch if you want or whatever, but master is what people get by default
 [07:47:07]  <daniels> HEAD in git means the top of that branch ... so HEAD in CVS terms is technically the HEAD of master
 [07:47:23]  <svu^ what happens if my commit does not have "master" label?
 [07:47:32]  <svu> I though it is on top of HEAD anyway?
 [07:47:55]  <svu> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xkeyboard-config.git;a=summary
 [07:48:08]  <svu> look, a lot of commits - but only one of them has master label
 [07:48:59]  <teuf^ only the top of the master branch is tagged, not all the commits that belong to it
 [07:49:08]  <daniels> sure, the little yellow box with master there means that particular commit is the top of master
 [07:49:42]  <daniels> you should use cgit anyway, it's far more sensible
 [07:50:26]  <daniels> svu: uhm, all of the models should be pointing to evdev keycodes
 [07:50:34]  <daniels> some might need variants, but they can be fixed up later if so
 [07:50:48]  <daniels> i assume pc98 will need an evdev variant
 [07:50:54]  <daniels> the rest should just map directly to evdev(evdev)
 [07:52:56]  <svu> even the sun models?
 [07:53:19]  <svu> and macs?
 [07:54:15]  <svu> how can we be sure they actually work with evdev(evdev)?
 [07:54:28]  <svu> sure I can delete all those lines - but is it safe?
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[08:00:11]  <daniels> they may not work perfectly with evdev(evdev), but they sure as shit won't work as is
 [08:04:46]  <svu> that makes sense. so, which lines would you recommend to drop? all?
 [08:07:59]  <daniels> i'd drop all the ones that don't involve AT keyboards, since they should all normalise to proper evdev keycodes
 [08:08:16]  <daniels> and then i guess (read: hope) it's only pc98/abnt2/jp106 that need mangling
 [08:08:46]  <svu> ok
 [08:08:54]  <svu> so, we'll have four lines then
 [08:09:05]  <svu> what about xfree98?
 [08:09:34]  <svu> well, thinkpadz are special in xfree86 - are they special in evdev as well?
 [08:09:46]  <svu> the MENU key is different
[08:10:37]  <daniels> dunno, don't have a thinkpadz :)
 [08:10:45]  <daniels> xfree98 == pc98, no?
 [08:11:22]  <svu> yes, right
 [08:11:36]  <svu> ok, so....
 [08:11:47]  <svu>   pc98          =       xfree98(pc98)
 [08:11:48]  <svu>   abnt2         =       evdev(abnt2)
 [08:11:48]  <svu>   jp106         =       evdev(jp106)
 [08:11:48]  <svu>   thinkpadz60   =       evdev(thinkpadz60)
 [08:11:48]  <svu>   *             =       evdev
 [08:12:00]  <svu> (hopefully noone minds 5 lines copypaste)
 [08:12:15]  <svu> that's all that remains
 [08:12:27]  <svu> or evdev(pc98) ?
 [08:12:32]  <mjg59^ Hm? How is the menu key different in the Thinkpads?
 [08:13:17]  <svu^ do not ask me. look at keycodes/xfree86(thinkpadz60)
 [08:13:48]  <svu> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15999
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[08:15:36]  <mjg59> svu: Typically, the way we deal with that at the moment is to remap keys to sanity at boot time
 [08:16:01]  <mjg59> I actually worry about whether they're running Ubuntu. Sladen made the Fn key do something funny there.
 [08:16:05]  <daniels> suits me
 [08:16:15]  <daniels> mjg59: wtf did sladen do to the fn key?
 [08:16:16]  <daniels> svu: looks fine
 [08:16:33]  <mjg59^ Made it generate a keycode
 [08:16:42]  <mjg59> I'm not sure it does ootb
 [08:18:19]  <svu> daniels, so, I'll leave xfree98(pc98) - or should we add empty evdev(pc98) ? will xfree98 keycodes work?
 [08:18:19]  <daniels> m
 [08:18:38]  <daniels> svu: xfree98 keycodes won't work, i guess just add an empty evdev(pc98) for now until we figure it out
 [08:18:53]  <svu> mjg59, you can ask in the bug... I'd be happy to drop unneeded section
 [08:18:56]  <mjg59> Does *anyone* run pc98 nowadays?
 [08:18:59]  <svu> daniels, ok, deal
 [08:20:03]  <svu> another question - there are many model-related mappings in symbols/inet. will they still work with evdev codes?
 [08:20:16]  <svu> or should they all use symbols/inet(evdev) ?
 [08:22:38]  <daniels> they should all use inet(evdev) for now, but that might need some tweaking and special-casing later on down the line
 [08:22:47]  <svu> oh my...
 [08:22:48]  <daniels> mjg59: yes, people still send in patches for pc98 every now and then.  go figure.
 [08:23:01]  <svu> ok, I'll change that rule as well
 [08:24:27]  <svu> daniels, so, in evdev.m_s.part, I'd have:      * = +inet(evdev)
 [08:24:28]  <mjg59> daniels: Fail
 [08:30:27]  <daniels> svu: yeah
 [08:31:29]  <svu^ committed.
 [08:32:02]  <svu> now, it's your turn to change the code - to use ruleset evdev instead of model evdev
 [08:34:34]  <svu> (just in case, xk-c is to be released at the end of September)
 [08:37:42]  <daniels^ committed
 [08:38:27]  <svu> good. So, I'll close all respective bugs:)
 [08:40:23]  <svu> tjaalton, are you happy for a moment with that bug?
 [08:44:53]  <tjaalton^ I'll probably backport the fixes anyway ;)
 [08:45:00]  <svu> daniels, thanks a bunch anyway. in case something horrible happens when I am on hollidays - feel free to commit. it if it really horrible
 [08:45:30]  <svu> tjaalton, feel free. but the main thing - gnome code does not have to fallback to evdev model anymore;)
 [08:46:08]  <tjaalton^ yes, that sounds nice
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[08:48:28]  <daniels> svu: okay, thanks -- enjoy the holiday! how long are you there for?
 [08:49:47]  <svu^ thanks:) 2 weeks only
[08:50:11]  <svu> I wish I had more
 [08:50:40]  <daniels> still, pretty good
 [08:51:31]  <svu> well, better than nothing - but too little after 2 years not being home:)
 [08:56:01]  <daniels> 2 years! jesus
 [08:56:03]  <daniels> enjoy
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[09:05:58]  <svu> yes, 2 years - travelling with little baby is not something we'd enjoy:) now that he's 1.5+ , it is a bit easier... thanks)
 [09:06:39]  <daniels> yeah, for sure
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[13:10:53]  <jcristau> sigh. now mesa 7.1 rc4 needs an unreleased libdrm.
 [13:14:55]  <tjaalton> the gem stuff?
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[13:15:21]  <jcristau> tjaalton: yes, {dri,intel}_bufmgr
 [13:15:29]  <tjaalton> right
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[13:42:23]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[14:20:22]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[14:42:24]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[15:01:55]  <Thunderbird> hi
 [15:02:14]  <Thunderbird> how is xinput2 proceeding? (I'm not subscribed to the list but saw that there is a nice discussion about it)
 [15:03:49]  <_bernie^ ask whot
 [15:03:55]  <Thunderbird> the reason I'm asking is that dicussion seems to be fresh and that for Wine we like some new stuff (was discussed at xdc2008)
 [15:04:28]  <_bernie> ajax: did anybody file a bug concerning opengl crashes on ppc with X 1.5?
 [15:04:54]  <_bernie> I'm trying to decide if it's something I did, or something fedora specific...
 [15:04:55]  <Thunderbird> stuff to support relative mouse movements, receiving of events for the whole desktop
 [15:05:27]  <Thunderbird> just that it won't be forgotten when thinking about the new api
 [15:05:58]  <_bernie^ I think whot is in australia, so he might be asleep.
 [15:06:29]  <Thunderbird> ok
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[15:56:47]  <a_guest_> Hello. Is it possible to get a possible release date for X11R7.4, more precise than "2008"?
 [15:57:47]  <mlankhorst> 3rd quarter 2008? <ducks>
 [15:57:52]  <mlankhorst> actually 4th*
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[15:58:07]  <mlankhorst> I don't know. :x
 [15:58:16]  <Thunderbird> if you fix all the remaining bugs, I'm sure you can get an exact date ;)
 [16:01:13]  <a_guest_> Ok. Have you fixed the xrandr bug (currently it can only be run normally one time per restart)
 [16:01:17]  <a_guest_> ?
 [16:03:34]  <jcristau^ "the xrandr bug" doesn't tell anyone anything
 [16:06:30]  <a_guest_> The xrandr bug: If X is shut down and then restarted, without restarting the computer, it is not possible to change video mode. Listing of video modes from xrandr only shows one possible resolution.
[16:06:55]  <a_guest_> I think it is reported.
 [16:07:35]  <jcristau> if it is, then bugzilla would be the right place to see if it's fixed. if it isn't, bugzilla is the right place to report it.
 [16:09:30]  <a_guest_> I shall go and sleep, and
[16:10:31]  <mlankhorst> What about the 3d changes, will they stabilize before xorg 7.4?
 [16:11:00]  <a_guest_> I do not want to spill my time on system-developing. All I want is a well-working operating system, so that I am able to program at my own.
 [16:11:21]  <a_guest_> Therefore I left Xorg for you :)
 [16:11:34]  <mlankhorst> Then you shouldn't have to worry about xorg 7.4, it'll be done when it's done.
 [16:12:51]  <jcristau^ what 3d changes?
 [16:13:14]  <mlankhorst> The gem/drm/modesetting stuff.
 [16:13:25]  <a_guest_> I thought to update my system, and would have xrandr well working then. Therefore I asked for a release date.
 [16:13:31]  <jcristau> mlankhorst: then probably not
 [16:14:36]  <mlankhorst> What will be used then? The old system?
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[19:52:05]  <njs> so this bug in Damage has been sitting ignored for ~6 months: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14648 -- is there anything I can do to get it actually fixed?
 [19:54:06]  <njs> the patch to change the server's functionality is trivial, but it also needs a spec update etc. and I'm not sure who/how to nudge people on that
 [19:55:00]  <Thunderbird> I don't think most are online; send an email to the xorg list and perhaps attach a proposed patch
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----- [2008-08-17] -----
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[03:03:22]  <_bernie> whot: hey, you awake?
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[05:02:00]  <_bernie> whot: I have a trivial build fix for xf86-input-evdev: checking for xextproto in configure.ac
 [05:02:06]  <_bernie> mind if I push it myself?
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[06:24:42]  <Thunderbird> hi
 [06:31:18]  <Thunderbird> whot are you there?
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[06:41:14]  <stillunknown> Does anyone know if krh is on vacation or something like that?
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[07:51:24]  <eth9> If I want to create a new keyboard layout for eee-pc, what is the "right" way to do it? ie, which files to modify etc.. to be able to specify "Option  XkbModel  eee" in xorg.conf  ..?
 [07:52:30]  <daniels^ /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base, you probably want to create a model -> symbols mapping if it has weird keys
 [07:56:35]  <eth9> btw.. is there any webb-cvs ?
 [07:58:35]  <jcristau^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config
 [08:07:57]  <eth9> thx
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[08:11:36]  <airlied> Strunkenbold: nope he's working on dri2..
 [08:11:41]  <airlied> oops..
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[11:18:24]  <eth9> what's "evdev" ..? (keycode layout)
 [11:19:12]  <daniels> the linux event interface
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[11:22:29]  <Thunderbird> daniels: BTW is there already more known about xinput2? someone from Wine asked at XDC about some changes we would like to see, are those planned?
 [11:22:47]  <Thunderbird> (relative mouse input stuff and things like that)
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[12:49:11]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: ping
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[13:48:00]  <stillunknown> if (pExaPixmap->score != EXA_PIXMAP_SCORE_PINNED)
 [13:48:03]  <stillunknown>     FatalError("Driver failed PrepareAccess on a pinned pixmap\n");
 [13:48:10]  <stillunknown> does anyone know what logic is behind that?
 [13:54:44]  <stillunknown>
[13:54:51]  <stillunknown> anholt turned an assert into an if
 [13:55:00]  <stillunknown> without swapping != for ==
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[18:24:39]  <stillunknown> Anyone know why core font rendering doesn't generate PrepareAccces calls (exa)?
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[18:39:41]  <airlied> stillunknown: it never touches the GPU perhaps?
 [18:40:34]  <stillunknown^ As far as i know it's directly rendered onto the front buffer.
 [18:40:39]  <stillunknown> which is in vram
 [18:41:07]  <airlied> you sure its not being rendered to a pixmap in host memory and blitted?
 [18:41:23]  <airlied> it should definitely have prepare/finish access if it touches a pixmap
 [18:41:26]  <airlied> in vram
 [18:41:53]  <stillunknown> That's possible.
 [18:42:07]  <benh> even front buffer should have prepareaccess
 [18:42:10]  <benh> if not, there's a bug in exa
 [18:42:27]  <airlied> for most pixmaps now we set things to NULL outsdie the prepare/finish
 [18:42:39]  <airlied> so its unlikely we would have amny missing.
 [18:42:50]  <stillunknown> I've seen prepareaccess on fb with greedy.
 [18:42:54]  <benh> yeah
 [18:43:12]  <stillunknown> My problem is that cpu access to offscreen memory is failure.
 [18:43:44]  <benh> that's why you can return false from PrepareAccess
 [18:43:48]  <benh> it should -always- be called
 [18:43:59]  <benh> and can always return false except for the front buffer
 [18:44:00]  <daniels> ExaCheckPolyGlyphBlt certainly calls PrepareAccess
 [18:44:08]  <benh> at least that's how it was when I added it to exa ;-)
 [18:44:35]  <benh> however, if it returns false, you do need a working DFS/UTS pair of course
 [18:44:43]  <stillunknown> Noone lets prepare access fail, before me at least.
 [18:44:48]  <benh> I used to
 [18:44:53]  <benh> on radeon I did some experiments
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[18:44:58]  <stillunknown> There was a 3 year old bug.
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[18:45:04]  <stillunknown> That made non-pinned fail.
 [18:45:07]  <benh> but maybe it's broken nowadays, it's indeed not a very tested code path
 [18:45:12]  <stillunknown> and pinned go through
 [18:45:28]  <stillunknown> an assert replaced with if
 [18:45:35]  <stillunknown> in september 2005
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[18:46:05]  <benh> it shouldn't be hard to track down thpo
 [18:46:12]  <stillunknown> I fixed it.
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[19:03:23]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[19:03:23]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[19:03:23]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp agd5f aggelos_ ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc-away alanc_away antrik b0le Battousai bbyer benh benjsc bernie bgoglin bobbens bradd___ bryce buggs cbrake_away chainsawbike cjb coling cskmax ctyler-camping cworth dagb daniels darktama davej dberkholz Dr_Jakob DrNick ds dwmw2_gone eboettcher egbert_away emmes erikg fijnman fredrikh glisse gmansi gordonjin gravity GuentherB gustaf1 hachi halfline Herman Ingmar jcristau jum_ jwelsh keithp kem leio_ Lerc libv londo malc0 malouin marcheu mjg59 mlankhorst mpr mw| ndim ohsix onestone Ori_B osiris__ otavio PauloZanoni pcpa pedroerp pete__c pjones Plagman_1 psyquark Q-FUNK RaoulDuke raster red__ rnoland rnoland_ rvalles sebas soren spstarr_work sputnik66 stillunknown svu sxpert sx|lappy t4bz TBBle_ tcoppi teuf Thunderbird tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti vtorri Wallbraker wereHamster whot z3ro Zeddie Zhenech Zouppen zuh
[19:05:14]  <Thunderbird> ok
 [19:05:33]  <Thunderbird> I guess relative mouse movement stuff is still on the drawing table, right?
 [19:05:58]  <whot^ sure, the current "plan" is to include it with the normal events, so you get both with each event.
 [19:07:14]  <Thunderbird> ok
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[19:08:02]  <whot> Thunderbird: but of course we need to sort out the edge cases here, where abs doesn't change, but rel does. you don't want to bombard clients with events that are useless
 [19:09:15]  <Thunderbird> I'm happy if we don't need to use evil hacks anymore (they break a lot of games; most modern ones are broken due to this)
 [19:09:40]  <daniels> whot: what about just tagging axes as abs/rel, and we can use dcce or something to notify clients of changes?
 [19:10:57]  <whot^ yeah, or we have two different events, one abs/rel, one just rel. the former stops when you hit the edge, the latter keeps going
 [19:12:10]  <daniels^ hmm, tbh i'd only like to see the one value in valuators[], which would be what came from the device (plus acceleration, i guess)
 [19:12:39]  <daniels> so you have abs values in screen_{x,y} which are always there, just clipped, and rel values which represent what the mouse gave you, plus accel
 [19:13:01]  <whot^ or we could just send two valuators[]. basically same as now, but tack on the rel axes.
 [19:13:36]  <Thunderbird> also one developer asked for 'the ability to open main pointer device and keyboard as an Xinput device'
 [19:13:47]  <whot^ that's possible in master already
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[19:14:30]  <daniels> whot: given that the abs values would be synthesized, what would the point be?
 [19:14:31]  <Thunderbird> will that be in the next xorg? (7.4?)
 [19:14:59]  <daniels> whot: for rel devices, you'd have to have abs just match root_[xy] anyway, because the values make no sense at all without clipping
 [19:15:03]  <whot^ well, depending on the device the abs values are what is being reported.
 [19:15:14]  <daniels^ so we provide pseudo-rel tracking for abs devices?
 [19:17:07]  <whot^ hmm, dunno yet. for x/y maybe, not for the other axes
 [19:18:33]  <daniels^ seems like minor overkill then
 [19:18:53]  <daniels> how about we provide valuators[] in whatever co-ord space the device gives us, plus {root,event,delta}_[xy]?
 [19:19:36]  <whot^ that could work too
 [19:19:42]  <whot> Thunderbird> e.g. we need to re-center the mouse in order to keep some games happy
 [19:19:46]  <whot> 08:58 < Thunderbird> in some it doesn't work and when the 'real' cursor leaves the window there are issues
 [19:19:48]  <whot> 08:58 < Thunderbird> as you won't receive events then
 [19:19:53]  <whot> whoops. I said copy, not paste :)
 [19:20:26]  <Thunderbird> ;)
 [19:21:29]  <Thunderbird> the keyboard/mouse as xinput which is in master, will that likely be part of 7.4? (as that would already allow us to fix some stuff perhaps doing some things manually for now)
 [19:22:01]  <daniels> it's been there since 1.4, in a fashion (read: badly)
 [19:22:23]  <whot> but the VCP/VCK dont do XI events
 [19:23:18]  <daniels> not themselves, but the originating devices do, and you can use DEVICE_CORE to work out which they are
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[20:01:23]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[20:18:01]  <stillunknown> Is there any chance someone with a git xserver could run with ExaNoComposite and check if glyphs are still rendered ok?
 [20:19:08]  <stillunknown> (keeping migration heuristics on always)
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[03:02:47]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[05:06:02]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: ping
 [05:08:13]  <MrCooper> pong stillunknown
 [05:08:26]  <stillunknown^ do you run a git'ish xserver?
 [05:08:35]  <MrCooper> yes
 [05:09:09]  <stillunknown> Any chance you could check if ExaNoComposite and the default migrationheuristics doesn't screw up fonts?
 [05:09:51]  <MrCooper> I think I've seen that
 [05:10:35]  <stillunknown> That answer is ambiguous.
 [05:11:23]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: Have you seen that everything is ok, or that it's corrupted?
 [05:11:38]  <MrCooper> seen font corruption
 [05:12:08]  <stillunknown> Any thoughts on the cause?
 [05:12:36]  <MrCooper> not sure, does it also happen if exaGlyphs() is bypassed?
 [05:13:05]  <stillunknown> I haven't tried, but i suspect that is the cause.
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[05:14:37]  <MrCooper> would be interesting if you could try it
 [05:15:23]  <stillunknown> Perhaps it should be possible to disable ExaGlyphs at runtime.
 [05:15:55]  <stillunknown> (for testing)
 [05:16:10]  <stillunknown> Since it's one of the more sensitive parts of exa.
 [05:16:29]  <MrCooper> it is? :)
 [05:18:16]  <stillunknown> I suppose i'll find out soon :-)
 [05:21:37]  <stillunknown> (away'ish)
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[05:31:40]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: exaGlyphs is the problem (away again)
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[05:32:44]  <MrCooper> okay, I guess exaGlyphs doesn't make much sense without Composite acceleration anyway
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[06:02:55]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: but you notice no corruption when composite is active?
 [06:03:19]  <MrCooper> haven't noticed any
 [06:03:27]  <MrCooper> have you?
 [06:03:49]  <stillunknown> I have, but it's possible that the driver is to blame.
 [06:04:00]  <johnflux> software xrender goes through pixman
 [06:05:29]  <johnflux> I'm still thinking about how to make xrender faster
 [06:06:04]  <stillunknown> I'd like to have the glyph cache, and have correct rendering.
 [06:07:13]  <MrCooper> what kind of corruption is it?
 [06:08:30]  <stillunknown> foobar            ____
 [06:08:49]  <stillunknown> with the ___ being 2 or 3 pixels thick of seemingly random color
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[06:11:29]  <stillunknown> It's rare, happens with exaGlyphs as soon as non-greedy is used
 [06:12:13]  <stillunknown> I'm certainly not excluding driver bugs, just find it odd that it only manifests there.
 [06:18:14]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: i noticed a small difference between composite and composite rects
 [06:18:15]  <stillunknown> pixmaps[0].pReg = pixmaps[0].as_src ? NULL : &region;
 [06:18:43]  <stillunknown> while the one used by glyphs has
 [06:18:44]  <stillunknown> pixmaps[0].pReg = NULL;
 [06:18:58]  <stillunknown> Is this wrong?
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[06:23:19]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: the region passed into exaDoMigration for destination pixmaps is the region that will be overwritten by the operation (and thus need not be migrated)
 [06:24:43]  <stillunknown> So the other one is wrong?
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[06:29:26]  <stillunknown> ok, i get it
 [06:29:55]  <stillunknown> It's more expensive to calculate the affected region, so it's just ignored.
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[06:45:11]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: it's not really applicable for a blend operation
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[08:06:06]  <math_b> whot: compile fix to synaptics: http://pastebin.com/m32529da4
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[08:16:22]  <whot> math_b: thx. applied
 [08:17:20]  <jcristau^ http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0808.2/0519.html sounds like it would fix the problem with evdev grabs?
 [08:18:50]  <daniels^ i proposed that a while ago, but dtor said it was shit, and i couldn't be arsed going further
 [08:19:11]  <jcristau> :(
 [08:22:34]  <math_b> whot: thk for your works on device properties :)
 [08:23:17]  <whot^ no worries.
 [08:24:15]  <whot> daniels: we should just stop grabbing the device, release evdev and blame the bugs on the kernel until they fix it :)
 [08:26:39]  <daniels> heh
 [08:26:58]  <daniels> i'm tempted to say that the kernel should just ignore all tty output when in KD_GRAPHICS
 [08:27:51]  <mjg59> Nah, that's tricky.
[08:28:17]  <mjg59> I think usplash uses KD_GRAPHICS but still expects to be able to get stuff back from the tty
 [08:28:59]  <daniels> okay, so i guess we need an ioctl to say 'look, seriously, i'm handling this'
 [08:30:24]  <mjg59> Yeah
 [08:30:46]  <mjg59> And if that fails, falling back to a grab is probably reasonable
 [08:30:56]  <mjg59> Shit'll break, but people should just upgrade their kernels
 [08:31:19]  <daniels> rather
 [08:31:31]  <mjg59> And better to break stuff than leak passwords
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[09:50:14]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: when doing UploadToScreen, why does it matter what screen_x and screen_y is?
 [09:51:20]  <MrCooper^ which function are you referring to?
 [09:51:40]  <stillunk1own> exaGetOffscreenPixmap()
 [09:51:56]  <stillunk1own> and it's use in combination with UploadToScreen()
 [09:52:17]  <libv> cjb: radeonhd build is fixed... xf86Version.h was uselessly included anyway, even 7.0 builds nicely without it
 [09:52:58]  <daniels> even 6.9?
 [09:53:28]  <glisse^ is there any news on sponsorship ?
 [09:53:48]  <daniels^ i sent the motion to the board, just awaiting all their acks
 [09:53:56]  <libv^ with 6.9 i run into -ansi and the crappy atombios parser code
 [09:54:22]  <glisse> i guess most of the board is on vacancy at the beach :)
 [09:54:24]  <daniels> i'm sure all the 6.9 users will be gutted
 [09:54:31]  <daniels> glisse: i can understand that
 [09:54:36]  <glisse> i do too
 [09:54:39]  <MrCooper> stillunk1own: you mean exaDoPutImage?
 [09:54:42]  <libv> daniels: we're still shipping it on SLE
 [09:54:44]  <glisse> i wish i was there too :)
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[09:54:59]  <daniels> libv: i'm sorry to hear that
 [09:55:00]  <libv> and i just got a reply on my email on how sndirsch builds against it
 [09:55:03]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: that's one of them, yes
 [09:55:12]  <daniels> glisse: that being said, finnish beaches aren't hugely exciting
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[09:55:24]  <libv> because the way i do it hits the crap code wall
 [09:55:25]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: xoff and yoff, being the variables that i find odd
 [09:55:32]  <jcristau> aussie beaches, otoh
 [09:55:37]  <MrCooper> stillunk1own: I can't seem to find other places matching your description, if you could be more specific...
 [09:55:38]  <glisse> daniels: how cold is the water over there ?
 [09:55:52]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: the glyph code has a similar function
 [09:55:56]  <MrCooper^ xoff and yoff translate from window coordinates to backing pixmap coordinates
 [09:55:59]  <daniels> glisse: it's more the apocalyptic storms you have to worry about
 [09:56:18]  <MrCooper> or rather from screen coordinates I think
 [09:56:30]  <daniels> jcristau: yeah, but in summer there, going to the beach is hardly optional.  death vs. water, water wins every time ...
 [09:56:48]  <jcristau> heh
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[10:01:00]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: but CACHE_X() and CACHE_Y() don't seem to be in screen coordinates
 [10:01:12]  <liquidAcid> hi there, is it currently possible to get GEM running with mesa-7.1_rc4 and a 2.6.26 series kernel?
 [10:01:14]  <stillunk1own> rather in cache coordinates
 [10:01:36]  <liquidAcid> i'm currently on an older mesa git with TTM, kernel version is 2.6.25
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[10:01:56]  <MrCooper> stillunk1own: the cache pixmap doesn't back a window, so screen_x/y will be 0
 [10:02:46]  <MrCooper> I think it would be very obvious if those coordinates were off :)
 [10:03:58]  <stillunk1own^ i've seen situations where i was missing 50+% of my glyphs
 [10:04:18]  <stillunk1own> so this offset can only cause problems
 [10:04:46]  <MrCooper> eh? Doesn't miss any here
 [10:04:58]  <MrCooper> it does sound like a driver coherency issue
 [10:05:09]  <stillunk1own> migration heuristic smart make fun stuff happen here
 [10:05:26]  <MrCooper> ah, that's another story
 [10:05:40]  <stillunk1own> why is that another story?
 [10:05:58]  <stillunk1own> the fun stuff only happens to glyphs
 [10:06:14]  <MrCooper> I didn't really test smart or greedy when switching to the current migration scheme, they could very well be buggy
 [10:06:19]  <sx|lappy> the special case code from hell ?
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[10:13:22]  <stillunk1own> sx|lappy: A non-default pixmap migration scheme.
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[10:13:36]  <sx|lappy> right
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[10:19:00]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: Do you know the hystorical reason for submitting src coordinates relative to dst?
 [10:20:51]  <MrCooper^ -ENOCONTEXT again
 [10:21:48]  <stillunk1own> CompositePicture() is often called with (srcx - dstx) as srcx, why is that?
 [10:22:03]  <sx|lappy> s/historical/hysterical/ ;)
 [10:24:47]  <MrCooper> stillunk1own: no idea
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[10:38:29]  <ajax> glibc's backtrace() function is utterly useless on sparc
 [10:38:33]  <ajax> you're all shocked, i'm sure.
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[10:39:46]  <ajax> also:
 [10:39:47]  <MrCooper^ it's rarely better than utterly useless anywhere :)
 [10:39:52]  <ajax> (gdb) break linuxPciInit
[10:39:52]  <ajax> Breakpoint 1 at 0x78a64: file /usr/include/bits/string3.h, line 85.
 [10:40:18]  <ajax> MrCooper: eh.  on x86 and amd64 it at least tries.
 [10:40:23]  <ajax> on sparc it's just silent
 [10:40:46]  <Dr_Jakob> /facepalm
 [10:40:54]  <MrCooper> ajax: still, it usually leaves out the interesting bits as an exercise for the reader
 [10:41:39]  <ajax> sure.  i'm not saying it's _good_ by any means.
 [10:42:42]  <ajax> but i'm certainly glad when it works since it a) gets me to the right general area when debugging new problems, b) triggers my content-addressable memory when looking for patterns of problems encountered/solved before
 [10:46:56]  <MrCooper> sure, it seems to work about as well on powerpc as on x86 btw
 [10:47:27]  <ajax> linux on sparc is something of an also-ran.  i shouldn't be surprised.
 [10:48:04]  <MrCooper> somebody should just tell davem :)
 [10:48:36]  <math_b> ajax: have you tried with -O0 ?
 [10:49:21]  <ajax^ no, but i doubt it'd help.  having read that part of glibc, not printing _anything_ is a sign of just not having the code written to walk the stack and try to deduce call frames.
 [10:49:53]  <ajax> whereas walking it badly typically gives you either the innermost frame and nothing else, or else as many frames as you asked for full of garbage.
 [10:51:11]  <math_b^ that might explains something indeed...
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[10:51:51]  <ajax> unlike ia64, sparc stack unwinding isn't a halting problem, so i'm pretty sure not one's cared yet.
 [10:55:40]  <math_b> given how often a crash report with a xorg.log backtrace() is replied with 'could you try gdb', I'm surprised there isn't any patch that call gdb from the server signal handler
 [10:56:13]  <daniels^ when you can no longer input anything? erm
 [10:56:17]  <ajax> i think mandriva may have one?  it sounds familiar anyway.
 [10:56:30]  <daniels> mandriva have a truly, erm, inspired patch
 [10:56:37]  <ajax^ if you feed it a microscript that just dumps bt to a file and exits, it'd be okay.
 [10:56:46]  <math_b+ gdb has a batch mode where you need no input
 [10:56:55]  <ajax> well.  "okay".
 [10:56:58]  <daniels> iirc it does sigsetjmp before requests and longjmp afterwards if you catch a bad insn
 [10:57:08]  <daniels> ajax: eh, why not just link to libbfd
 [10:57:28]  <ajax> because then you'd be using libbfd.
 [10:57:51]  <ajax> i don't think it's a license problem?  but it's certainly a cheesegrater to the face problem.
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[10:59:24]  <ajax> i dunno.  i'm happy enough with xorg_backtrace() as is that i'm not inspired to make it better
 [11:00:14]  <ajax> but i encourage someone else to be that inspired ;)
 [11:00:28]  <daniels> yeah, same (beyond being shit and not walking symtab), but if we're going to go further, might as well use the lib and not hack it
 [11:02:54]  <ajax> what the hell is xf86AccResFromOS supposed to do.
 [11:02:56]  <MrCooper> just make sure to link it statically :}
 [11:04:05]  <daniels> http://svn.mandriva.com/svn/packages/cooker/x11-server/current/SOURCES/0504-SAVE_CONTEXT-Mandriva-Custom-X-Server-patch.patch (not for the faint of stomach)
 [11:04:08]  <ajax> it looks like it tries to find every pci domain and add the legacy vga resources to it?
 [11:04:19]  <daniels^ find the answer, win a prize*
 [11:04:28]  <daniels> *: knowledge that will haunt you for the rest of your life
 [11:04:30]  <ajax> but does so on the basis of "hey, all pci domains have host bridges, right?"
 [11:04:39]  <ajax> which uh.
 [11:04:41]  <ajax> no.
 [11:05:27]  <ajax> holy fuck they seriously ship that?
 [11:06:13]  <ajax> what an astonishingly bad idea.
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[11:08:01]  <daniels> don't say i didn't warn you
 [11:08:25]  <ajax> i don't just mean because it's ugly.  i'm used to ugly.
 [11:08:51]  <MrCooper> well, AFAIK cooker is their equivalent to Rawhide/sid
 [11:09:05]  <MrCooper> FWIW
 [11:09:48]  <daniels> indeed
 [11:09:51]  <ajax> looks to be present in 2008.1 updates too
 [11:10:46]  <ajax> for fifty bar dollars, why is that patch a terrible thing to do?  hint: cve.
 [11:10:56]  <daniels> 'bar dollars'?
 [11:11:47]  <daniels> i wonder how pciaccess works on the hurd
 [11:11:54]  <jcristau> 'not'
 [11:14:58]  <ajax> daniels: do they not have pub trivia in finland?
 [11:15:24]  <ajax> anyway, the answer is:
 [11:16:10]  <ajax> security attacks on the X server typically rely on being able to find some region of memory you can write shell code to, and jumping to it.
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[11:16:40]  <ajax> it's hard to do this on the stack anymore, but doing it into a pixmap would work, if you knew where the pixmap existed in server address space.
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[11:17:14]  <ajax> you could find out by running the exploit multiple times, except the first time you poke outside the server's address space, it'll fault, gdm restarts, you lose your auth token, etc.
 [11:17:27]  <ajax> however, with that patch, client-initiated server segfaults _aren't_ _fatal_
 [11:17:46]  <ajax> so the auth token you've already got stays valid, and you can just retry all day long until you've mapped server address space.
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[11:18:38]  <daniels> ajax: actually, we don't, and in .au it's usually rather more direct (cash or n cases of beer)
 [11:20:01]  <ajax> aah, cultural variety.  what a fascinating world.
 [11:20:36]  <ajax> anyway, short answer, that patch takes any hitherto-unknown possible root attack on the server and makes it a guaranteed root attack.
 [11:20:53]  <sx|lappy> daniels: it doesn't, there's no such thing as "the hurd" that's functionnal at this time ;)
 [11:21:17]  <ajax> like it's ever been functional
 [11:21:27]  <daniels^ i ran it once
 [11:21:27]  <sx|lappy> right ;)
 [11:21:31]  <jcristau> it can sort of run X, pre-pciaccess
 [11:21:34]  <daniels> then i realised i wanted more than 1.4gb and ditched it
 [11:22:08]  <antrik> olaf@alien:~$ uname -a
 [11:22:08]  <antrik> GNU alien 0.3 GNU-Mach 1.3.99/Hurd-0.3 i686-AT386 GNU
 [11:22:18]  <antrik> sx|lappy: ^
 [11:22:27]  <daniels> ajax: and yeah, agreed.  rather crash out than blithely continue.  i mean, best case you've got a benign overflow and you've probably blatted various internal structures anyway, so you're just going to fail in bizzare and unexpected ways.
 [11:23:43]  <MrCooper> at least get the hell out of there ASAP
 [11:24:09]  <daniels> maybe that patch and libdbus will cancel each other out
 [11:24:28]  <antrik> LOL
 [11:25:19]  * jcristau idly highlights pcpa to give him a chance to read the above
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[11:31:01]  <math_b> can we kill xf86_IlHack.c ? (http://pastebin.com/m7da60e3e) that hack is 14 years old.
 [11:31:03]  <sx|lappy> daniels: no chance, they'll add themselves one to the other ;)
 [11:31:27]  <ajax> math_b: yes, we can.
 [11:31:33]  <mjg59> daniels: Ooh, yes. Maybe our dbus apps should longjmp around libdbus failures.
 [11:31:53]  <math_b> ajax: thanks
 [11:32:00]  <daniels> x86 makes me so fucking sad.
 [11:32:06]  <daniels> s/x/&f/, but that too
 [11:32:27]  <daniels> mjg59: penalty box, fifteen minutes.
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[11:32:43]  <sx|lappy> daniels: perhaps in 20 years or so, it'll disappear ;)
 [11:32:48]  <sx|lappy> perhaps not :(
 [11:32:59]  <math_b> x86 ?
 [11:33:02]  <daniels> arm will rule the world with an iron fist
 [11:33:34]  * CosmicPenguin is glad to be doing his part to make all of your lives so rich and full of challenges
 [11:35:08]  <math_b> x86 will obviously be killed by ia64 not arm
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[11:47:44]  <ajax> math_b: applied, thanks.
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[11:51:34]  <jcristau> bah. http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0808.2/0738.html
 [11:51:47]  <jcristau> daniels: dtor didn't get the memo :(
 [11:52:56]  <daniels^ i agree that removing /dev/input/mice is sensible anyway (just flag-day it and move on with your lives), and if switching the tty to raw really does fix it, then i'm all for it
 [11:53:33]  <ajax> yeah, raw tty should be fine.
 [11:53:52]  <sx|lappy> daniels: talking about input, any clues where the tuning screws are for evtouch ?
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[11:54:55]  <daniels> sx|lappy: probably in evtouch.c, at a guess
 [11:54:58]  <daniels> i've never used it tbh
 [11:55:05]  <daniels> am going to in a couple of weeks though
 [11:55:38]  <sx|lappy^ ok. 'cause I have this linitx e-galax based screen i'd like to be able to use ;)
 [11:55:58]  <ajax> i'm curious what set of devices actually need evtouch over evdev
 [11:56:20]  <sx|lappy^ you need to specify tuning parameters for touchscreens
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[11:57:05]  <daniels> sx|lappy: well, far be it from me to stop you
 [11:57:07]  <ajax> i've got customers using evdev in rhel5 on touchscreens...
 [11:57:09]  <daniels^ calibration.
 [11:57:24]  <sx|lappy> the values need to be adjustable as the physical response of the sensor varies with use conditions (heat, humidity ....)
 [11:57:27]  <daniels> ajax: if evdev can do linear scaling, that's good enough for me
 [11:58:26]  <ajax> i think the assumptions we've been going on so far are a) big UI elements for fat fingers, b) 1:1 pixels
 [11:58:58]  <ajax> input props are the way forward here, right?
 [11:59:22]  <dberkholz> i think i tried evdev on a touchscreen here and it failed. don't recall the details though
 [11:59:56]  <daniels> ajax: not really convinced on props for this one tbh
 [12:00:20]  <daniels> it's a mostly-immutable property of the physical device, and without knowledge of same, you get no input
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[12:01:06]  <ajax> daniels: we get a range description from the kernel on absolute axes though.  is it just that that's unreliable?
 [12:01:28]  <ajax> or that it's insufficient.
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[12:04:13]  <daniels> ajax: smart devices (think: cintiq) will give you all you need
 [12:04:14]  <sx|lappy+ well, the thing can't tell you if one axis is wired the wrong way and goes negative
 [12:04:32]  <daniels> but essentially, wacom : what i have :: dvi-connected : lvds
 [12:04:34]  <sx|lappy> ajax: which happens on that touchscreen I have
 [12:05:10]  <daniels> on all the devices i have around here, you simply don't get any information as to the data range the ts will expose, so you need to do manual calibration at least once
 [12:05:25]  <daniels> if this sounds distinctly like the past, it's because it is
 [12:05:36]  <ajax> and, presumably, not even enough information about what device you're talking to.
 [12:06:44]  <daniels> for me, i only know that i'm talking to a ti tsc2005/2301 (tsc -> touchscreen controller).  i have no clue what the actual screen is.  the interface is more dumb than the person who thought russia were sending tanks into atlanta.
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[12:50:14]  <ajax> alanc_away: does osol actually make use of libpciaccess in the server?  there's solaris support in the lib, but it looks like configure will end up using the platform pci code.
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[13:01:27]  <stillunk1own> Is damage on a per-pixmap base or is damage screen coordinate based?
 [13:02:59]  <ajax> should be relative to the drawable's origin.  clients never know about any screen coordinates a pixmap might have, iirc.
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[13:07:44]  <fredrikh> keithp: ping
 [13:07:55]  <keithp> ?
 [13:08:51]  <fredrikh^ the tile offsets in miPaintWindow still appear to be broken, and i think this might be the right fix: http://rafb.net/p/UbRzIP29.html
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[13:11:03]  <keithp> fredrikh: you've just computed 0
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[13:11:09]  <keithp> fredrikh: oh
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[13:11:19]  <keithp> except for parent relative backgrounds
 [13:11:25]  <fredrikh^ right
 [13:11:41]  <keithp> uhh
 [13:13:17]  <keithp> fredrikh: I'm trying to figure out whether you've gotten the sign correct or not...
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[13:16:46]  <keithp> fredrikh: ok, the sign looks correct as wel
 [13:16:47]  <keithp> l
 [13:16:49]  <fredrikh> it should be negative when the position of the window relative to the parent is positive
 [13:16:53]  <keithp> yes
 [13:17:01]  <keithp> just reading the definition of tile/stipple origin :-)
 [13:17:04]  <fredrikh> heh
 [13:18:14]  <keithp^ will you push a fix then?
 [13:18:23]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [13:18:33]  <keithp^ also, might want to fix it in the 1.5 branch
 [13:19:13]  <fredrikh> i'm not sure what the rules are for committing to the branch
 [13:19:31]  <keithp> it's ajax's branch, you might just ask him to cherry pick
 [13:19:39]  <keithp> is there a proposed fixes page for 1.5?
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[13:24:15]  <ajax> there is.
 [13:24:25]  <ajax> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/Server15Branch
 [13:24:49]  <daniels> (www.x.org)
 [13:31:35]  <ajax> yeah, that's just what was in my browser autocompletion
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[13:39:16]  <ajax> sparcPci.c, how i loathe you.
 [13:39:49]  <pcpa^ daniels, jcristau: sorry, only read the comments about the mandriva custom patch. I think it is a good patch, and if someone finds outs how to crash the X Server, the server should be fixed. And none should give X access to untrusted people. But I understand it may sound not right; somewhat like the kernel continuing working after an oops...
 [13:45:06]  <malc0> can I interest anyone in applying http://people.freedesktop.org/~stuart/0001-modes-when-no-crtc-uninitialized-pointer-causes-in.patch
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[14:21:29]  <stillunknown> Is it normal that core text rendering results in DownloadFromScreen onto a large destination.
 [14:22:02]  <stillunknown> (dst_pitch > 100*src_pitch)
 [14:22:09]  <ajax> whether it's normal or not, it seems like it shouldn't.
 [14:22:28]  <stillunknown> It's merely a curious question.
 [14:22:28]  <ajax> at least not for GXcopy
 [14:22:36]  <ajax> no idea whether it
 [14:22:39]  <ajax> 's normal though
 [14:24:43]  <stillunknown> Maybe MrCooper knows.
 [14:29:44]  <ajax> okay, there's no way anybody can be building any of the content of sparcPci.c
 [14:30:04]  <daniels> definitely for the best.
 [14:30:38]  <ajax> compare the definition of pciBusFuncs_t with the definition of sabrePCIFunctions
 [14:32:20]  <ajax> i wonder if the same is true of ix86Pci.c
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[14:32:48]  <ajax> no, that one looks like it got fixed up
 [14:32:49]  <ajax> dang.
 [14:32:53]  <daniels> seriously, chuck _has_ to be a troll.
 [14:32:56]  <daniels> ajax: hurd represent.
 [14:33:05]  <ajax> also osol/x86
 [14:33:20]  <daniels> sucks to be them.
 [14:34:01]  <cjb^ I don't think he's a troll.
 [14:34:40]  <cjb> It's possible that, in the _Diamond Age_ world, he might have "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" tattooed on his forehead.  But that doesn't automatically make him a troll.  ;-)
 [14:34:47]  <daniels> heh
 [14:35:21]  <daniels> Because of some system instability injected because of all of my X testing, I
 [14:35:24]  <daniels> didn't think that this went out (the machine crashed moments later, and didn't
 [14:35:27]  <daniels> get into the send cache at all).  It's my normal tack, to go back and heavily
 [14:35:30]  <daniels> edit my mails before I send them.  This one didn't get the editing.  A bit
 [14:35:33]  <daniels> embarrassing, although I did mean all of it in actuality, I wouldn't have said
 [14:35:36]  <daniels> it this way at all.
 [14:35:38]  <daniels> seriously though, that doesn't even remotely make sense ...
 [14:35:45]  <stillunknown> cjb: Violent person, erratic movement?
 [14:35:50]  <daniels> how can it be that x crashing causes mails to be sent?
 [14:35:58]  <realmz> Does XRender use the alpha channel in a non-standard way?
 [14:36:28]  <cjb> He's written much more inflammatory mails in the past.
 [14:36:37]  <krh> realmz: it uses premultiplie alpha (ask google)
 [14:36:45]  <krh> premultiplied alpha
 [14:37:18]  <stillunknown> often at least
 [14:38:27]  <cjb> daniels: he said X crashed moments later.  if his mailer sends a mail and then "sends" a copy of it into his IMAP sent folder, it's plausible.
 [14:38:57]  <daniels> bizzare mailer with a bizzare failure mode :)
 [14:39:26]  <cjb> true enough :) I think Evo would fail like this.
 [14:44:12]  <realmz> krh, thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for
 [14:46:51]  <ajax> yay, now i can kill MAX_PCI_BUSES
 [14:47:30]  <krh> realmz: of course, keithp will tell you that premultiplied alpha *is* the standard way
 [14:48:40]  <realmz^ Even though most image formats use either ARGB or BGRA
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[14:51:35]  <ajax> hey cool, pciaccess broke the int1A handler.
 [14:53:28]  <stillunknown> and that's good?
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[14:53:41]  <ajax> not as such, no.
 [14:53:56]  <math_b^ pciNumBuses ?
 [14:54:20]  <ajax^ yeah.  that's pretty much always 1 now.
 [14:55:26]  <math_b^ saw that ... the xfree86 pci layer is such a wreck, that's depressing really
 [14:55:46]  <ajax> it's gotten a bit smaller today
 [14:56:52]  <math_b> tell me you're going to kill pciBusFuncs_t
 [14:57:07]  <ajax> very soon.
 [14:57:16]  <math_b> cool
 [14:58:20]  <jcristau> my build logs say sparcPci.c does get built. not that that means much.
 [14:58:31]  <ajax> yeah, so do mine
 [14:59:22]  <ajax> but on linux, ARCH_PCI_INIT is linuxPciInit(), and ARCH_PCI_PCI_BRIDGE and sun aren't defined, so none of the content becomes object code
 [14:59:33]  <jcristau> win
 [15:00:55]  <math_b> after you've done that i have a patch that tries to improve linuxMapPci, the "let's try a procfs ioctl on a sysfs file" must really die
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[15:15:58]  <alanc> ajax: I thought we used libpciaccess on Solaris - I know Xorg master a few months ago was unable to find my devices until I fixed a bug in the Solaris code in libpciaccess
 [15:16:59]  <daniels^ oh, on linux we still scan /sys and /proc as well as use libpciaccess
 [15:17:21]  <daniels> people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/pci-despair.diff being what kicked off the current period of pci introspection (and yes, that patch could be simplified still further)
 [15:17:31]  <alanc> ah, I haven't looked through the code lately to see what it actually does
 [15:18:06]  <daniels> don't
 [15:19:38]  <ajax> alanc: if you could, on a recentish x86/amd64 sparc machine, look through the X log for "Probing config type using method 1" or any of the other messages from ix86Pci.c, i'd love you forever.
 [15:19:51]  <ajax> i'm reasonably sure you're still using that code, given the buildsystem, but i could be wrong.
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[15:24:29]  <alanc> I don't have a current build handy on SPARC - on Solaris x86/x64, 1.5RC6 does have "PCI: Probing config type using method 1"
 [15:25:33]  <daniels> fail
 [15:25:48]  <ajax> 'swhat i figured.
 [15:26:19]  <ajax> so you might be using pciaccess somewhere deep under the skin, but it's still doing it by pretending to poke at 0xcf8/0xcfc to figure out what kind of pci bios you have
 [15:27:32]  <alanc> hmm, though it does then say "PCI: Standard check for type 1 failed." & "PCI: No PCI bus found or probed for" before then telling me it found my nvidia card at 'PCI:*(0@3:0:0)'
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[15:28:45]  <alanc> so at the very least it's confused
 [15:29:38]  <daniels> happily, this is the sort of problem entirely solved by deleting code.
 [15:29:56]  <ajax> yeah, uh.  that's quite weird.
 [15:29:58]  <daniels> ajax and i have relevant background in this field.
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[15:30:53]  <alanc> so I've seen - I'm waiting for the angry mail from nrubsig over libXaw.so.8
 [15:36:38]  <daniels> i've seen a couple of those before; i'll survive.
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[15:42:52]  <krh> daniels: so we'll just pretend it never happened?
 [15:47:05]  <daniels^ dri2> you are definitely a king among men
 [15:48:22]  <krh^ oh, I was talking about the libXaw.so.8 incident...
 [15:48:33]  <krh> pretend there never was a .8
 [15:49:34]  <daniels> oh, i was confused about what you meant.  i thought you typoed and meant .7.  that's the highest soversion we have of libXaw, remember?
 [15:50:06]  <krh> oh true
 [15:51:32]  * krh engages supression
[15:51:35]  <daniels> cjb: tinderbox> which moduleset is it using? i removed a bunch of stuff recently, i guess they need to be updated to match; also, if you could please remove xaw.m4 from $(aclocaldir), that'd be great, thanks.
 [15:51:39]  <daniels> krh: *jedi hand wave*
 [15:52:11]  <daniels> cjb: i'm too lazy to build all the apps myself; i was hoping the tinderbox would scorch red.
 [15:52:37]  <cjb^ will pull, I'd created a local copy of the moduleset because I don't have an fdo account to commit there.
 [15:52:41]  <cjb> (I should get one.)
 [15:53:49]  <daniels^ oh, cheers
 [15:53:59]  <daniels> and yeah, any time you feel like getting a gpg and ssh key together, we can definitely get you one
 [15:54:19]  * daniels goes back to swearing at modifiers.
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[16:12:44]  <ajax> xf86GetOSOffsetFromPCI is doing it very very wrong
 [16:13:30]  <ajax> why bother looking at the regions of a device, when you could do some more pcicfg cycles.
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[16:18:39]  <math_b> ajax: I completely failed so see the (assumed) deep magic behind xf86GetOSOffsetFromPCI, I'm quite relieved you find it to be broken
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[16:21:53]  <ajax> the whole thing looks not quite right.
 [16:23:20]  <daniels> HACKED BY ALBERTANS
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[16:28:08]  <ajax> god, lnx_pci.c
 [16:28:32]  <daniels> srsly
 [16:28:47]  <daniels> lnx_pci.c really wants to have 90% of it removed and then turned into pci.c
 [16:28:59]  <daniels> when i've stopped arguing with modifiers, i'll sort out my stash and push that
 [16:31:10]  <CosmicPenguin> Is there a ongoing schedule of which parts of the X server you guys will be tearing apart now?  I want to make sure I am here for my favorites
 [16:31:15]  <CosmicPenguin> s/now/next/
 [16:31:22]  <CosmicPenguin> Becuase this is really entertaining
 [16:31:47]  <ajax> i tried to write that list at one point
 [16:32:12]  <ajax> i failed mostly because the act of enumerating things to delete was sufficiently infuriating that i gave up and started deleting things again
 [16:33:53]  <ajax> pciBusAddrToHostAddr seems like we could probably kick it to the curb entirely
 [16:37:46]  <math_b> Speaking of removal: http://pastebin.com/m3b3f1eed removes a bunch of never compiled assembly 'optimized' stuff
 [16:38:18]  <math_b> as a bonus assyntax.h is removed too, it's part of the sdk but unused
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[16:39:32]  <krh> heh, assyntax.h
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[16:39:59]  <ajax> mmm, i thought some of those did get used.
 [16:40:04]  <math_b> okay we can keep assyntax.h if needed
 [16:40:27]  <ajax> i could care less about it, tbh
 [16:40:35]  <ajax> i just thought some of that code was live still
 [16:41:47]  <math_b> shared/inout.S BUSmemcpy.S IODelay.S SlowBcopy.S and xaaTEGlyphBlt.S are quite dead
 [16:43:05]  <math_b> that one keeps assyntax.h: http://pastebin.com/meb1d478
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[16:44:33]  <daniels> CosmicPenguin: i didn't have any grand guiding idea behind pci, i've just been going through xf86Init.c for work and wondering what looks like bullshit.  this, in turn, led me to the pci layer, which was indeed bullshit.
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[16:45:27]  <math_b> If assyntax.h is to be kept, then kill unused shared/bios_devmem.c as a compensation: http://pastebin.com/m41d99361 :)
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[16:45:33]  <ajax> math_b: nah, i'm sufficiently convinced.
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[16:47:24]  <ajax> math_b: applied
 [16:47:30]  <math_b> thanks
 [16:59:06]  <math_b> remove dead bsdRessource.c and lnxResource.c :  http://pastebin.com/m2dfbcc94
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[17:03:09]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: does that new push contain a fix for the EXA problem I reported?
 [17:03:19]  <CosmicPenguin> no
 [17:03:25]  <CosmicPenguin> rendering fixes are hard
 [17:03:31]  <CosmicPenguin> but I think I have to start working on it for OLPC now
 [17:04:11]  <CosmicPenguin> At least I hope its the same problem
 [17:04:24]  <CosmicPenguin> mainly because I have a minimal testcase for the OLPC thing
 [17:06:18]  <ajax> math_b: applied
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[17:12:57]  <math_b> ajax: thanks. http://pastebin.com/m4548b464 removed unused INCLUDE_XF86_NO_DOMAIN
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[17:15:46]  <airlied> seriously need vga arb in the kernel..
 [17:15:59]  <airlied> can rip out all resource code then.
 [17:16:17]  <stillunknown> xorg is not linux only
 [17:17:09]  <airlied^ other OSes can put vga arb in their kernels.
 [17:17:16]  <airlied> xorg should not be an OS replacement layer
 [17:17:28]  <airlied> its a rendering engine..
 [17:17:53]  <ajax> augh lnx_axp.c
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[17:19:05]  <stillunknown> airlied: On the long run yes.
 [17:19:15]  <daniels^ erm, we've grown up now and stopped trying to bash pci from userspace
 [17:19:21]  <daniels> vga arb is more sensitive still
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[17:20:25]  <stillunknown> All i'm saying that if linux has it in a month, then you can't expect everyone else to have it in 2 months.
 [17:22:35]  <ajax> this is indeed true.
 [17:23:00]  <math_b^ I think xaaTEGlyphBlt.S managed to escape it's due execution in 593144dddd977f53bcd1a115f9544eeece46df4c
 [17:23:08]  <ajax^ d'oh
 [17:23:19]  <daniels> stillunknown: otoh, we've never encouraged anyone to get their house in order; maybe it's worth actually giving that one a shot.
 [17:23:30]  <CosmicPenguin> panic brings out the best in everybody
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[17:24:03]  <ajax> math_b: fixed
 [17:24:11]  <math_b> thanks
 [17:24:35]  <stillunknown> daniels: A headsup of ~6 months to move certain stuff into the kernel, should those who care time.
[17:24:49]  <stillunknown> *should give those
 [17:24:51]  <daniels^ erm, 1.6 isn't coming for six months.
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[17:25:13]  <ajax> i still really wish i had a mesa to release against.
 [17:25:22]  <stillunknown> I'm not thinking with 1.6 in mind.
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[17:26:52]  <daniels> stillunknown: okay, so we've got at least 12 months headsup, if you're not talking about 1.6.
 [17:29:13]  <stillunknown> The important thing would be to agree on what needs to go, write it down, spam it to a wide enough audience.
 [17:30:42]  <daniels> yes, that's fine.
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[17:38:55]  <math_b> ajax: http://pastebin.com/m386380b6 is a proposed fix for linuxPciOpenFile
 [17:39:36]  <math_b> the current implementation is broken as it mix up sysfs and procfs
 [17:40:26]  <math_b> there are a couple of XXX in that patch, that's some questions i was wondering while hacking that, feel free to amend
 [17:42:01]  <daniels> that stuff should all just unexist
 [17:43:14]  <ajax> we dropped xf86misc, yeah?
 [17:45:57]  <math_b> daniels: yet we currently needs it, libpciaccess might need a pci domains aware interface to map legacy ranges, but that doesn't exist right now
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[17:48:10]  <stillunknown> legacy ranges being?
 [17:48:30]  <ajax> the vga io ports, 0xa0000, 0xc0000, ...
 [17:49:04]  <ajax> anything governed by the vga bit in pci, really.
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[17:50:14]  <stillunknown> lovely
 [17:50:49]  <math_b> the current code fails as it tries to use a procfs ioctl on a sysfs file which is not a brilliant idea
 [17:51:12]  <stillunknown> although 0xa0000 should be accesable through the mmio pci resource?
 [17:51:19]  <airlied> nope..
 [17:51:29]  <airlied> math_b: which ioctl?
 [17:51:34]  <math_b> at least some distro have a patch that disable the sysfs code of linuxPciOpenFile due to that
 [17:51:47]  <airlied^ its all in libpciaccess now
 [17:52:00]  <math_b> PCIIOC_MMAP_IS_MEM and PCIIOC_MMAP_IS_IO
 [17:52:01]  <daniels> airlied: there's still a lot of crap around
 [17:52:03]  <jcristau> ajax: mesa doesn't have a libdrm to release against.
 [17:52:06]  <jcristau> again.
 [17:52:17]  <airlied> I think we have to back out GEM from 7.1
 [17:52:30]  <jcristau> that sounds sane
 [17:52:34]  <airlied> put it back in afterwards.
 [17:52:44]  <math_b> every user of xf86MapDomainMemory uses that code, and there are still plenty
 [17:52:46]  <daniels> ajax: i think i made xf86misc unexist, yes
 [17:52:56]  <daniels> math_b: we can add that code to libpciaccess, that's fine
 [17:53:07]  <daniels> pciaccess is pointless if the server still does half the pci crap itself, though.l
 [17:53:19]  <ajax^ so the code that implements deactivategrabs and closedowngrabs is useless now.  yay!
 [17:53:36]  <math_b+ I totally agree with you
[17:54:06]  <daniels> ajax: never worked anyway ...
 [17:54:19]  <daniels> whereby 'never' i mean 'hasn't for a while'
 [17:58:31]  <ajax> it's a deletey kind of day
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[17:59:40]  <daniels> day, year, close enough
 [18:00:13]  <daniels> ffs, CustomKeycodes needs to go too
 [18:00:19]  <daniels> ajax: don't forget to update the manpage
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[18:06:42]  <daniels> ajax: pMouse and pKeyboard can go from ScrnInfoRec
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[18:28:04]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: I managed to get my hands on GX1 if you need any to test merging of the driver.
 [18:28:47]  <warren> could you ask the OLPC folks if the workaround in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15700 makes their problem go away?
 [18:29:03]  <CosmicPenguin^ oh, good
 [18:29:12]  <CosmicPenguin> about the GX1 - I will very much rely on you
 [18:29:28]  <warren^ actually, I was hoping to just mail it to you.  I got two.
 [18:29:30]  <CosmicPenguin^ and yes, that will likely make the OLPC problem go away
 [18:29:36]  <CosmicPenguin> oh, I have a GX1
 [18:29:40]  <warren^ I have no GX2 here though.
 [18:29:59]  <CosmicPenguin> We found a cache of them hidden at the bottom of a storage closet
 [18:30:43]  <warren^ GX2?
 [18:30:49]  <CosmicPenguin> Plenty of GX2s
 [18:30:57]  <warren^ you want one of the GX1's?
 [18:31:01]  <CosmicPenguin> No, I have one
 [18:31:03]  <warren> ok
 [18:31:20]  <CosmicPenguin> What I don't have is the desk space
 [18:31:39]  <warren> I suppose we only care about the GX2
 [18:31:46]  <warren> but it can't autodetect until GX1 is merged
 [18:31:57]  <warren> is anything older than NSC GX1 the same pciids?
 [18:33:58]  <CosmicPenguin> I don't think so
 [18:34:05]  <CosmicPenguin> but if there is, then I'm going to ignore it
 [18:34:51]  <warren> I like that attitude. =)
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[18:35:09]  <CosmicPenguin> My boss wants me to ignore GX1 too - but I love you guys too much to do that
 [18:35:51]  <warren^ I tried to make xorg-server simply detect the id, but ajax said no.
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[19:20:58]  <cjb> daniels: forgot about your moduleset changes -- have applied them now.  (thanks, interactive patch in ediff-mode)
 [19:23:43]  <daniels^ oh nice, thanks!
 [19:23:46]  <daniels> i'll check it in the morn.
 [19:24:31]  <jcristau> i just fixed (hopefully) 2 apps for the xaw8 removal, because somebody bothered to file a bug
 [19:25:58]  <CosmicPenguin> warren: ping
 [19:27:43]  <malc0> jcristau: thanks, it was mine
 [19:30:47]  <jcristau^ oh, hi :)
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[19:40:22]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: pong
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[19:53:56]  <CosmicPenguin> warren: I was wondering if the appliction in your rendering bug was using Xshm
 [19:54:46]  <warren^ the applicatino in the rendering bug is GNOME running over the network
 [19:54:56]  <CosmicPenguin> so that would be a solid _NO_
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[02:13:47]  <benjsc> b0le: howdy, you been working on compiz + mpx? Just starting to look at it and wondering what state things are in, whot mentioned you might have continued his work
 [02:15:09]  <b0le^ unfortunately I haven't yet had time to do anything with it (and I have only quickly looked over the code)
 [02:16:08]  <benjsc^ no probs, just starting myself just wanted to know where the latest state was. What were your plans for it?
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[02:25:22]  <b0le> benjsc: I was going to make it compile/work without xi2 (so that it can be merged to master). That was as far as I had thought, though there are probably more plugins that could be extended to use/handle mpx
 [02:26:10]  <benjsc^ k, might have a look at compiling/working without xi2 for you - need it for something I'm working on anyway
 [02:32:22]  <whot+ uhm, pretty much everything I did was just XI2-related, so removing that part won't leave much.
 [02:33:18]  <b0le^ not remove xi2, just make it work without it (fallback to core events (or xi1?))
 [02:33:52]  <whot^ ah, that should actually work. I left all the standard stuff in
 [02:34:19]  <benjsc^ perhaps compiling when xi2 doesn't exist is an example I guess
[02:36:24]  <whot^ true
 [02:38:13]  <whot> man, I hate it when I find a bug and git-blame lists kaleb for the whole file.
 [02:38:48]  <benjsc> could be worse, could be whot for the entire file :)
 [02:39:22]  <whot> it actually is, after an indent run :)
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[02:41:05]  <benjsc> I actually wonder how many bugs might be fixed if -Werror was the default in xorg/*
 [02:41:45]  <whot> I wonder how many bugs might be fixed if rm -rf xkb/ was the default in xorg/*
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[02:45:13]  <b0le> I wonder how much would work if that was done...
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[05:32:48]  <johnflux> good morning all
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[08:26:16]  <rvalles> so, for an ati hd4850... which of the drivers is appropiate?
 [08:26:48]  <airlied^ -ati or -radeonhd
 [08:26:58]  <rvalles> yeah, the question was more like
 [08:27:00]  <rvalles> which of those two_
 [08:27:02]  <rvalles> ?
 [08:27:08]  <jcristau> depends who you ask
 [08:27:17]  <rvalles> ah, the pain.
 [08:27:49]  <airlied^ they both do the same
 [08:27:52]  <airlied> so either..
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[08:28:22]  <rvalles> what do they do differently internally :?
 [08:28:30]  <airlied^ very little for those cards.
 [08:28:43]  <rvalles> at some point I think it was the atombios thing, but... theyre both using atombios now, arent they?
 [08:28:51]  <jcristau> yes
 [08:29:07]  <airlied> rvalles: for everything except the DAC, I think on that card radeonhd still uses their non-atom code for the DAC>
 [08:29:22]  <rvalles> is that good or bad?
 [08:29:27]  <rvalles> one of my screens is still vga.
 [08:29:52]  <rvalles> if they both work, then it doesn-t matter which one... I hate that sort of situation
 [08:30:07]  <jcristau> one of them should be killed
 [08:30:17]  <rvalles> with fire.
 [08:30:21]  <airlied^ shouldn't matter..
 [08:30:32]  <airlied> most distros should pick one for you..
 [08:30:46]  <rvalles> well, I'm not using one of those distros
 [08:30:49]  <daniels> just use -ati
 [08:31:04]  <rvalles> ok, somebody came forward with an specific suggestion
 [08:31:11]  <rvalles> now, the magic question... why?
 [08:31:55]  <stillunknown> because some people would like to see radeonhd disappear
 [08:32:22]  <daniels> if you have a specific reason to use radeonhd, it's not for me to stop you, but ati seems to have the useful advantage of actually working most places
 [08:32:23]  <airlied^ we should restart avivo, I don't think people have enough choice.
 [08:32:23]  <rvalles> that's a "some people say" argument
 [08:32:32]  <mjg59> Linux is all about choice
 [08:32:37]  <rvalles> aka, not an argument
 [08:32:41]  <glisse> avivo is the way to go !
 [08:32:45]  <glisse> :d
 [08:32:53]  <rvalles> airlied: Ill go with that.
 [08:32:55]  <jcristau> glisse: or was it unichrome?
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[08:33:22]  <daniels> jcristau: polychrome!
 [08:33:35]  <airlied> I see openchorome did a release..
 [08:33:46]  <daniels> we could always revive -via
 [08:34:08]  <jcristau> that would be a useful thing to do with our time
 [08:34:13]  <mjg59> Let's port the viafb driver to X
 [08:35:45]  <daniels> i128 dri for all!
 [08:36:03]  <rvalles> the via are the most popular ones after ati, nvidia and intel
 [08:36:22]  <rvalles> in cheap laptops and the like
 [08:36:28]  <airlied> via vs sis for the 4th place.
 [08:36:28]  <mjg59> Yeah, but that's kind of like saying Mars is the most popular planet to live on after Earth
 [08:36:41]  <airlied> I see a lot of Intel SiS motherboards..
 [08:36:45]  <mjg59^ :(
 [08:37:06]  <airlied^ Intel ship em to the poor countries :)
 [08:37:19]  <airlied> you can't afford 965, here's some SiS..
 [08:38:00]  * airlied & zzzz
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[08:40:32]  <sx|lappy> airlied: evil
 [08:45:05]  <daniels> i'm willing to bet there are more people using omap2 than all via hw.
 [08:45:46]  <libv^ which is not hard, how many cellphones come with omap2?
 [08:45:51]  <sx|lappy> haha
 [08:46:14]  <sx|lappy> anyhow, we're rid of via chipsets for intel and amd processors. good !
 [08:46:19]  <mjg59> daniels: So we have an excellent open 3D driver for the mbx, right?
 [08:46:27]  <mjg59> Oh :(
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[08:52:07]  <daniels> libv: at a guess, around the 30-40m mark?
 [08:53:02]  <libv> what pc hardware is able to compete with that?
 [08:53:04]  <sx|lappy> try an extra 0
 [08:53:11]  <libv> intel?
 [08:53:47]  <sx|lappy> nah, consumes about 1000 times the energy
 [08:53:57]  <libv^ in numbers shipped
 [08:54:20]  <libv> s/numbers/units/
 [08:55:46]  <daniels> sx|lappy: hm, i'm seeing total sales figures of 50m for nseries as of may (per google); the n95 is definitely the strongest seller there, and i'd guess that somewhere around 60-80% of nseries sales were omap2.
 [08:56:11]  <sx|lappy^ it's not only used in phones
 [08:56:14]  <johnflux> lots of phones
 [08:56:21]  <sx|lappy> and not only nokia
 [08:56:33]  <sx|lappy> stuff like HTC & friends
 [08:56:38]  <daniels^ sure, those are only the ones i know about.
 [08:56:39]  <sx|lappy> also use omap2
 [08:56:50]  <daniels> ah, htc's on 2430? i thought they were still back on 1710 or so.
 [08:56:59]  <sx|lappy> not for the more recent ones
 [08:57:31]  <daniels> hmm, you might want to update http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Tech_Computer_Corporation then :)
 [09:01:20]  <libv> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR search for omap
 [09:02:00]  <maniac103> daniels: a lot of HTCs (like mine) are on OMAP 7xx and especially 8xx
 [09:02:07]  <maniac103> (mine is 850)
 [09:02:43]  <sx|lappy> thing is, omap 17xx is not produced anymore
 [09:02:59]  <sx|lappy> according to what I've read here and there
 [09:03:19]  <daniels> the last tablet we used the 17xx for was the 770, and even then it was hardly a power beast.
 [09:03:22]  <daniels> maniac103: right
 [09:03:28]  <libv> no pc hw can get close to such numbers, especially not the players with like 1% of the market like VIA and SIS
 [09:03:52]  <sx|lappy> mebbe intel procs when all models are accounted for
 [09:04:03]  <sx|lappy> in a generic "intel proc" category
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[09:04:20]  <daniels> right, so you should all be hacking om omap.  glad we've got that sorted.
 [09:04:22]  <sx|lappy> then you have all the pics and avrs used by things like ovens, tvs, ...
 [09:05:03]  <maniac103> daniels: if omap would just have public data sheets :-/
 [09:05:11]  <sx|lappy^ heh
 [09:05:15]  <daniels+ um, it does.
 [09:05:26]  <maniac103^ it DOES? do you have any link?
 [09:05:41]  <sx|lappy+ yeah. one page that says "omap is a processor based on arm tech." ;)
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[09:05:46]  * maniac103 hasn't found any so far
 [09:05:52]  <daniels^ google omap 3530 trm
 [09:06:27]  <daniels> sx|lappy: er, no, a 3500 page pdf, a couple of hundred pages (iirc) of errata, and various other programming guides.
 [09:06:35]  <maniac103^ unfortunately not for 850
 [09:07:54]  <daniels^ not for 8xx, not for 1xxx, and not for 2xxx.
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[09:08:29]  <daniels> much easier to release a document that's been written for public consumption in the first place than to retrospectively attempt to please the lawyers.
 [09:08:33]  <daniels> (cf. ati/amd)
 [09:08:41]  <johnflux> maniac103: what are you trying to do btw?
 [09:09:00]  <sx|lappy> daniels: too many lawyers
 [09:09:12]  <daniels^ feel free to call ti and argue your case ...
 [09:09:22]  <maniac103> johnflux: get GSM information out of it (http://maniac.fschreiner.de/content/view/9/18/) - currently I use reverse engineered data structure information
 [09:09:41]  <sx|lappy> daniels: it's a societal pb, not TI's fault
 [09:09:41]  <johnflux> maniac103: ah.  probably easiest to stick to reverse engineering :-D
 [09:12:26]  <maniac103> daniels: but your google hint actually was good ;-)
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[09:32:14]  <math_b> Hum, I broke xf86-video-nsc, I missed it as it's not listed in http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/util/modular/tree/module-list.txt
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[09:34:09]  <ajax> it's intentionally not listed
 [09:34:39]  <ajax> the intent is to merge cyrix and nsc into geode
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[09:46:41]  <math_b> hum, it seems whoever wrote nsc really love assembly
 [09:47:36]  <daniels> compilers are shit, don't you know?
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[09:48:21]  <sx|lappy> "this being an embedded system, no need for platform portability... (and I'll be the only one maintaining this shit)"
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[10:44:39]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: mind you, it does seem like the current 2.12 branch won't build as-is on 1.3 or 1.4
 [10:44:58]  <CosmicPenguin> I wouldn't expect on 1.3
[10:45:03]  <CosmicPenguin> but 1.4 should have a pretty good shot
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[10:45:19]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: unless the new code specificly requires a new dependency not currently used by the ubuntu package?
 [10:45:43]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm counting on you  to tell me if thats true or not
 [10:46:51]  <Q-FUNK> has anything started to rely on libcpiaccess?
 [10:47:31]  <CosmicPenguin> nope - still ifdefed
 [10:50:22]  <Q-FUNK> it builds on 1.4 for you?
 [10:50:42]  <CosmicPenguin> I don't have a 1.4 setup handy
 [10:50:51]  <CosmicPenguin> like I said, I'm hoping that you will fill in that part for me
 [10:51:11]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [10:51:23]  <Q-FUNK> In file included from lx_driver.c:40:
 [10:51:23]  <Q-FUNK> /usr/include/xorg/xf86Crtc.h:697: error: expected declaration specifiers or "..." before "I2CBusPtr".
 [10:51:31]  <math_b> patch for xf86-video-nsc: http://pastebin.com/m72843146 only compile tested obviously. hope this works.
 [10:51:34]  <CosmicPenguin> Thats from 1.4?
 [10:51:42]  <Q-FUNK> yup
 [10:51:48]  <Q-FUNK> that's what he reported
 [10:52:52]  <Q-FUNK> math_b: what's this large bit of asm that was inserted?
 [10:54:08]  <Q-FUNK> argh... gotta go
 [10:54:09]  <Q-FUNK> bbl
 [10:54:22]  <math_b^ a replacement for removed nsc_msr_asm.S
 [10:54:42]  <Q-FUNK^ ok
 [10:54:54]  <math_b> It's nsc_msr_asm.S in gcc's inlinesyntax
 [10:55:07]  <math_b> ... hopefully
 [10:55:09]  <Q-FUNK^ mind you, the plan is to mothball cyric and nsc later this year.
 [10:55:17]  <math_b> yep yep
 [10:55:45]  <math_b> I just don't what to be responsible for a thinderbox red light, that's all.
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[10:56:04]  <Q-FUNK> :)
 [10:56:12]  <Q-FUNK> fair enough
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[11:07:59]  <CosmicPenguin> Is anybody aware of any strange interactions with exaShmPutImage and other render functions?
 [11:08:06]  <CosmicPenguin> s/with/between/
 [11:10:24]  <CosmicPenguin> I have a test app that is using render to do an alpha cursor and using XShmPutImage to draw a rectangle on the screen
 [11:11:27]  <CosmicPenguin> when the cursor and the rectangle meet, not all is happy - I've detailed some of it here: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7612
 [11:12:15]  <CosmicPenguin> It looks like the damage routines are copying the cursor back to the screen before the composite routine runs
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[11:21:11]  <warren> CosmicPenguin: migration heuristic greedy makes it go away?
 [11:21:45]  <CosmicPenguin> No, I don't think anything is getting migrated
 [11:21:59]  <CosmicPenguin> and it works when we don't use Xshm - I would think that migration would affect us either way
 [11:22:24]  <CosmicPenguin> warren: I no longer think this is the same problem you have, which is bad news form e
 [11:23:54]  <ajax^ looking.
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[11:26:58]  <ajax> /* The actual ShmPutImage isn't wrapped by the damage layer, so we need to
 [11:27:05]  <ajax> oh yeah.  that inspires confidence.
 [11:28:16]  <ajax> CosmicPenguin: this is with software cursor, i assume.
 [11:28:50]  <CosmicPenguin> yeah - Xrender is compositing an alpha cursor with PictOpOver
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[11:29:55]  <CosmicPenguin> XRenderCreateCursor and friends
 [11:29:58]  <ajax> yeah, looks like this has always been there
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[11:33:00]  <johnflux> daniels: for  prepareComposite - it will never try to composite onto the scratch memory, right?
 [11:33:42]  <ajax> static-x is completely the right music for this
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[11:35:14]  <ajax> augh.  how can the sw cursor code ever have worked.
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[11:43:11]  <CosmicPenguin> YOu know, this is the only industry where the top professionals can say "how did this ever work" and get away with it
 [11:43:23]  <CosmicPenguin> An airplane engineer can't look at a 747 and say that
 [11:43:56]  <CosmicPenguin> I think that just proves we all made the right choice
 [11:44:07]  <CosmicPenguin> If we fail, nobody dies, if we win, everybody plays quake
 [11:44:17]  <johnflux> and dies in quake
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[11:50:47]  <Batchy> I remember an interview of a guy working on the airbus A380 saying exactly this
 [11:52:11]  <Batchy> that they fixed thing the quick way and they hope the whole thing will work.
 [11:52:12]  <pjones> CosmicPenguin: turns out, that happens in pretty much all engineering fields, and a bazaar number of them think they're the only ones.
 [11:52:30]  <ajax> a bizarre number, too.
 [11:52:34]  <pjones> yes, that.
 [11:52:35]  <CosmicPenguin> Remind me not to leave the house ever again
 [11:53:01]  <pjones> damn spell checker, telling me something is right when it's merely a real word.
 [11:55:00]  <ajax> nugggggh hate this code.
 [11:56:32]  <johnflux> pjones: eye sea your spill chocker is working
 [11:56:44]  <ajax> ... wow.
 [11:56:51]  <ajax> i really hope i'm reading this wrong
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[12:01:24]  <ajax> oh, cool, miSprite{En,Dis}ableDamage are macros.
 [12:01:30]  <ajax> totally necessary
 [12:01:46]  <dberkholz^ thanks for cleaning out pci!
 [12:02:16]  <ajax^ still needs some work, but it's a little better
 [12:04:25]  <MrCooper^ probably ShmPutImage just needs to be properly wrapped by miext/damage?
 [12:05:00]  <ajax^ probably.  it's not typically considered a wrapped path though
 [12:05:31]  <ajax> i think the initialization order is okay to let us do that though
 [12:06:00]  <MrCooper> not doing so breaks anything that relies on the damage layer, doesn't it?
 [12:07:42]  <ajax> well, only for cases that don't handle ShmPutImage through enough of pScreen->PutImage to hit miext/damage/
 [12:08:22]  <ajax> problem is shmFuncs isn't something you can get to outside of Xext/shm.c.  static, no getter function...
 [12:08:40]  <ajax> once you get as far as doing that it seems like you may as well just add it to ScreenRec
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[12:10:54]  <ajax> i don't have any intrinsic problem with that.  there's api issues for people who want to backport the fix, but that's always true.
 [12:11:19]  <ajax> bbiab, sammich
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[13:29:41]  <dberkholz> does anyone know why http://david.freetype.org/lcd/libXft-2.1.7-lcd-filter-2.patch never got committed?
 [13:30:59]  <cjb> woo, two drivers left until a green tinderbox: 
[13:31:03]  <cjb> video-nsc says nsc_msr_asm.S:133:22: error: assyntax.h: No such file or directory
 [13:31:15]  <cjb> video-sisusb says sisusb_cursor.c:169:60: error: macro "XF86_VERSION_NUMERIC" passed 5 arguments, but takes just 4
 [13:31:28]  <ajax> gah, sisusb
 [13:32:13]  <math_b> cjb:  http://pastebin.com/m72843146
 [13:32:35]  <math_b> compile tested only
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[13:35:55]  <fredrikh> dberkholz: partly because if distros don't enable the subpixel code in freetype, you don't get subpixel rendering
 [13:36:18]  <dberkholz^ sure, but if they do, you still don't
 [13:36:44]  <fredrikh> you do, since libXft does it on its own
 [13:37:11]  <dberkholz> worse, presumably, or else why would that patch exist?
 [13:37:35]  <fredrikh> it doesn't apply the filter freetype uses
 [13:37:45]  <fredrikh> which reduces color fringes
 [13:38:08]  <dberkholz> sounds like a win to me
 [13:40:42]  <fredrikh> those filters are patented by microsoft, which is why distros usually leave that code disabled in freetype
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[13:42:15]  <dberkholz> right
 [13:42:17]  <fredrikh> and cairo and qt4 don't use libXft, so it wouldn't make much of a difference if it was applied
 [13:45:52]  <dberkholz> thanks for the info
 [13:46:04]  <dberkholz> i'll just send the reporter upstream and let him spend time on it if he wants
 [13:46:19]  <dberkholz> i told him what you said
 [13:49:52]  <ajax> oh, sure, this is straightforward.
 [13:50:20]  <ajax> CosmicPenguin: pretty sure the DamageDamageRegion in exaShmPutImage needs to go before the rendering code, not after.
 [13:50:36]  <CosmicPenguin^ okay - I'll try that
 [13:54:19]  <dberkholz> hmm, i need to check the 1.5 blocker
 [13:54:33]  <ajax> should be empty
 [13:54:49]  <dberkholz> so are things just waiting on a libdrm release?
 [13:54:57]  <ajax> pretty much.
 [13:55:26]  <dberkholz> my goodness
 [13:55:40]  <dberkholz> that means the latest release will actually be within a year of current development
 [14:02:48]  <dberkholz> Author: Adam Jackson <ajax@redhat.com>
 [14:02:48]  <dberkholz> Date:   Mon Mar 3 15:04:49 2008 -0500
 [14:02:48]  <dberkholz> Branch for 1.5.
 [14:06:46]  <ajax> sigh.
 [14:12:03]  <wereHamster> is it possible for a video driver to change the max virtual size of the screen? I'd somehow expect that xorg uses the max virtual size which the hardware supports instead of the max resolution of the currently connected displays
 [14:12:44]  <ajax> it's possible, yes.
 [14:12:49]  <ajax> several drivers do it.
 [14:12:59]  <wereHamster> intel apparently not :(
 [14:13:11]  <ajax> the reason the rest don't just preallocate out to the virtual size limit is because you'd pin gobs and gobs of memory
 [14:13:50]  <ajax> on intel 965, for example, that's 4096 * 4096 * 4 bytes, just for the front buffer.  add back and depth for 3d and it's on the order of 200M.
 [14:13:58]  <ajax> and since that's shared with host memory...
 [14:14:03]  <wereHamster> well, do you really need to pin all that memory? Even with the drm memory manager active?
 [14:14:19]  <ajax> with a drm memory manager that worked, no, you wouldn't.
 [14:14:24]  <ajax> we're still awaiting one that works.
 [14:14:31]  <wereHamster> *sigh*
 [14:14:40]  <daniels> (contributions welcome)
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[14:15:09]  <wereHamster> still waiting for bugs to be fixed so that I can actually run the latest git code
 [14:15:43]  <math_b> how hard would that be to dynamically adjust virtual size ?
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[14:46:40]  <ajax> math_b: well, since we still don't have a working memory manager...
 [14:48:36]  <math_b> sigh
 [14:48:53]  <ajax> it's the sort of thing that's hard in proportion to how many problems you want to solve with it.
 [14:49:05]  <ajax> if you just want a dumb framebuffer in userspace, it's way easy.
 [14:49:27]  <ajax> if you want it as a kernel service and you want working 2d and 3d accel, it's a little tricky.
 [14:56:10]  <ajax> christing xfree86
 [14:56:13]  <ajax>       /* The Identify function is mandatory, but if it isn't there continue */
 [14:56:54]  <cjb> haha
 [14:57:11]  <cjb> I wonder if different people wrote the first and second parts of that sentence
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[14:59:39]  <daniels> -#define miSpriteIsUpTRUE(pDevCursor, pScreen, pScreenPriv) if (!pDevCursor->isUp)  \
 [14:59:42]  <daniels> -    pDevCursor->isUp = TRUE;
 [14:59:45]  <daniels> ajax: but you removed that vital guard!
 [15:00:12]  <ajax> i run with scissors too
 [15:00:29]  <daniels> *gasp*
 [15:00:58]  <nha> wow
 [15:01:22]  <nha> it's like someone was trying to get onto dailywtf or something
 [15:04:07]  <math_b>   /* Note:  IA-64 doesn't compile this and doesn't need to */
 [15:04:08]  <math_b> #ifdef __ia64__
 [15:04:17]  <math_b> that's puzzling ....
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[15:06:11]  <daniels> math_b: yeah, that bit is awesome
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[15:21:10]  <nha> grr
 [15:21:16]  <nha> LoaderOpen(/home/prefect/dev/xorg/prefix/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//ati_drv.so)
 [15:21:16]  <nha> (EE) module ABI major version (2) doesn't match the server's version (4)
 [15:21:16]  <nha> (EE) Failed to load module "ati" (module requirement mismatch, 0)
 [15:21:35]  <nha> what can be causing this if both ati_drv.so and the X server have been compiled from current Git master?
 [15:21:50]  <nha> I'm probably missing some stupid library or something, but which one?
 [15:22:13]  <ajax> you probably didn't install the server's headers, so you were still building the driver against the old server's sdk.
 [15:22:24]  <daniels^ mad props for using 'mad props' in a commit message.
 [15:22:28]  <nha> aren't they installed automatically when I do make install?
 [15:22:48]  <daniels^ configure -ati with PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/home/prefect/dev/xorg/prefix/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH
 [15:23:08]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: it looks like moving the damage did the trick
 [15:23:18]  <daniels> else it doesn't know where to find the correct headers, and just assumes the system path
 [15:23:31]  <ajax> CosmicPenguin: giggity
 [15:23:40]  <nha> I'm usually doing that (have a little script that sets that environment variable), but I'll check again...
 [15:23:44]  <ajax> also needs a DamageReportAfter or something at the end
 [15:23:53]  <ajax> basically whatever DamagePutImage does
 [15:27:50]  <nha> indeed - I don't know what exactly I did, but after some permutations of make clean, autogen.sh again, and rebuilding it works
 [15:29:04]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: okay
 [15:29:14]  <CosmicPenguin> now I have to work on warren's bug - I'm all a twitter
 [15:29:51]  <ajax> which one is that?
 [15:30:17]  <CosmicPenguin> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15700
 [15:30:42]  <ajax> oi.  still.
 [15:30:58]  <CosmicPenguin> yes still - I've been blissfully ignoring it
 [15:31:21]  <ajax> jeremy's supposed to have a pile of production XOs now, i should steal one for a bit
 [15:31:48]  <ajax> i never did get better than a b1
 [15:32:01]  <CosmicPenguin> mostly becuase I wish I had a test case instead of "use Nautilus"
 [15:32:06]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: you need to remedy that situation
 [15:32:11]  <ajax> srsly
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[15:36:16]  <ajax> well, that was easy enough
 [15:36:54]  <ajax> i do wonder where my b1 went off to.  pretty sure dcbw has it now.
 [15:38:49]  <cjb^ yup, he has 10
 [15:40:39]  <ajax> wow, it's been a long time since i've played with one of these
 [15:40:45]  <ajax> i hadn't seen the boot animation
 [15:41:22]  <CosmicPenguin> heh
 [15:42:40]  <cjb> and you don't want to know how the boot animation works
 [15:44:35]  <ajax> boot animation is never good
 [15:45:06]  <ajax> is the terminal no longer built in?
 [15:45:49]  <pjones^ meh, our boot animation isn't so bad...
 [15:46:09]  <pjones> of course, it's like the thousandth attempt or something.
 [15:46:42]  <cjb> ajax: it should still be built-in.  do you have any activities in the ring?
 [15:47:21]  <cjb> if not, you might have grabbed one of the two that jeremy couldn't get to connect to wireless.  mouseover on the home view XO icon and Control Panel->Software Update will pull down all the activities
 [15:47:36]  <ajax> bah.  that's going to require a wep key
 [15:48:21]  <cjb> yeah.  there's still the Linux tty too, if you just need something quick with a terminal.
 [15:48:56]  <ajax> i really hope i'm not still seeing the same dcon flicker.
 [15:49:39]  * cjb quickly confiscates ajax's XO, replaces it with a beer, and tells him it's all going to be okay.
 [15:50:01]  <ajax> don't tell me these things
 [15:50:19]  <CosmicPenguin> Now gutting the X PCI engine doesn't sound so bad after all, does it?
 [15:51:08]  <ajax> aah, there it is.
 [15:51:40]  * daniels quickly confiscates ajax's beer, replaces it with a tequila, and tells him there are bad people out there.
 [15:52:37]  <ajax> this really is going to eat at me
 [15:52:52]  <ajax> it's bad enough i failed on the hardware design to not notice how broken the dcon design was
 [15:53:13]  <ajax> that i also never got the software timing hack working is just poor form
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[15:54:35]  <ajax> daniels: speaking of tequila.  xkb-atkins?
 [15:55:28]  <daniels^ swamped by work.
 [15:55:40]  <daniels> it's 11pm: hoping to go home soon, clean up as people are coming to stomp through my apartment at 7:30am, and pass out.
 [15:55:50]  <cjb> ajax: eh, not your fault.  I think it's actually regressed since the last release.
 [15:56:02]  <ajax> daniels: no worries, just curious
 [15:56:35]  <daniels> yeah.  i really hope this dies down soon, but realistically, who knows.  i think it should be okay once i track this modifier bug down, though.
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[16:01:33]  <ajax> cjb: it's acting like it's all handled in the resume path now.  at least there you stand a chance since you can legally run with interrupts off.
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[16:02:07]  <daniels> xf86cli() ftw
 [16:02:49]  <cjb> ajax: we seem to be getting flicker there too (as well as when we just change modes), sadly.
 [16:03:23]  <CosmicPenguin> changing modes is a known flicker
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[16:03:38]  <ajax> i wonder if lx has enough of a command queue to hack up fakey sync-to-vblank
 [16:03:57]  <CosmicPenguin> not really
[16:04:28]  <ajax> sigh.
 [16:04:49]  <ajax> i wonder who i have to bribe to get a hardware respin with a new dcon and a genlock wire.
 [16:05:11]  <daniels^ lx or 2420?
 [16:05:33]  <ajax^ either one would be fine.
 [16:05:54]  <ajax> yeah, definite dcon flicker still there.
 [16:08:28]  <ajax> actually
 [16:08:40]  <ajax> you need a modicum of kernel support for the blank interrupt anyway
 [16:08:42]  <CosmicPenguin> the genlock would have been, is still key
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[16:09:00]  <ajax> may as well just write your own command stream there and fake it in the kernel driver
 [16:09:53]  <ajax> that gets icky though.  maybe not.
 [16:10:00]  <CosmicPenguin> no - its icky
[16:10:33]  <ajax> yeah, switching in and out of software rendering would get weird, and you'd have to do usage estimation, and blah.
 [16:11:41]  <daniels> who needs hardware when you have a kernel?
 [16:11:50]  <daniels> it's just like winmodems all over again
 [16:11:54]  <ajax> we could move fb into the kernel!
 [16:11:58]  <ajax> (drink)
 [16:12:14]  <daniels> 'sweet, we've got an rj11 jack! job done.'
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[16:13:33]  <CosmicPenguin> Both sides of the hardware in question come up just short of being useful
 [16:13:41]  <CosmicPenguin> Thats the story of my life
 [16:13:54]  <ajax> hardware always loses though
 [16:15:01]  <CosmicPenguin> Our saving grace is that nobody uses power managment on the XO, so nobody sees the flicker
 [16:15:03]  <daniels> my ambition is to one day get to the point where the hardware is merely just short of being useful, as opposed to being a mere doorstop.  except that it's a terrible doorstop, because it only weighs a shitteenth of a gram.
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[16:17:27]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: now you're making *me* sad.
 [16:18:04]  <CosmicPenguin^ sorry about that
 [16:18:25]  <daniels+ if you love power management, come work with us!
 [16:18:27]  <CosmicPenguin+ I have the distinct privilege of having failed in both areas
 [16:18:37]  <mjg59> (in Helsinki)
 [16:18:39]  <daniels> i promise* the food's great in helsinki.
 [16:18:42]  <daniels> *: mumble
 [16:20:44]  <cjb^ I do have the advance of being vegetarian, which means that all the crazy things Helsinkians do with fish get disqualified by default.
 [16:21:19]  <mjg59^ Oh, that just means you don't get to eat
 [16:22:28]  <cjb> Helsinki:  Europe's Texas?
 [16:22:37]  <ajax> do you have a vegetarian option? "sure, fish or chicken?"
 [16:22:59]  <daniels> eh, no, vegetarian here is fine.
 [16:22:59]  <mjg59> cjb: Texas has Austin. Helsinki has, erm.
 [16:23:16]  <daniels> in fact, it's better than most anything else in the world, because the vegetarian option is just as abysmal as the meat option.  you aren't missing _anything_.
 [16:23:43]  <cjb> ajax: "Yeah, see, it turns out that chicken salad isn't *actually* vegetarian."
 [16:24:15]  <halfline> meh it's all relative
 [16:24:25]  <halfline> i don't consider rennet vegetarian, but a lot of vegetarians do
 [16:25:07]  <cjb> honey's an interesting example (for vegans).
 [16:25:25]  <halfline> a lot of thai and japanese restaurants consider fish vegetarian too
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[16:25:51]  <halfline> well most people consider honey in the same category as milk i think
 [16:26:08]  <cjb> no, there are many vegans who do not drink milk but do eat honey.
 [16:27:09]  <halfline> again, it's all relative. i thought most vegans avoided honey
 [16:27:21]  <cjb> most vegans for ethical reasons fall into that category, I think.  The correlation between the milk production and the suffering of the animal is clear in the case of cows and not really present at all in the case of bees :)
 [16:27:23]  <halfline> but just shows you can't really put people in buckets
 [16:27:38]  <cjb> yeah
 [16:27:55]  <halfline> well some honey farmers kill the bees when taking the honey
 [16:27:57]  <dagb> that would be cruel. Unless the bucket was really big.
 [16:28:07]  <cjb> and, like you say, some people would just say that they don't consider insects capable of suffering and be happy to eat their products for that reason.
 [16:28:42]  <ajax> if the bees die during collection, the apiary is doing it wrong
 [16:29:16]  <halfline> s/wrong/wrong and traditional/
 [16:29:39]  <jbarnes> apiarist you mean?
 [16:29:44]  <dagb> ajax: that didn't remind me of http://xkcd.com/463/ at all...
 [16:29:55]  <ajax> traditional here means inefficient, so, subset of wrong.
 [16:30:03]  <jbarnes> we have a beehive actually, afaik the whole idea is to keep your colony alive and not swarming to maximize honey production
 [16:30:13]  <jbarnes> killing your colonoy everytime you harvest would be pretty silly
 [16:30:33]  <jbarnes> tradition included
 [16:31:25]  <halfline> well that's the nature of skeps though
 [16:31:46]  <halfline> granted most honey farmers don't use skeps anymore
 [16:32:46]  <jbarnes> yeah defining skeps as "traditional" is going back quite a ways :)
 [16:33:15]  <jbarnes> anyway, #xorg-devel and all...
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[16:55:55]  <ajax> daniels (and anyone else): http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/hide-cursor.patch
 [16:55:58]  <ajax> how crazy?
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[16:56:23]  <ilikenwf> what provides glcore.h? i'm getting a build error with xorg server as a result of it being missing
 [16:56:51]  <cjb^ mesa.
 [16:57:06]  <ilikenwf^ dang...i have a current version installed
 [16:57:13]  <ilikenwf> is there a flag for that to be installed
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[16:58:28]  <ilikenwf> cjb: is there a flag for that to be built?
 [16:59:24]  <ajax> the hide-cursor thing isn't my idea, it's shamelessly stolen from garmin's kdrive patches, but the implementation is mine
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[17:05:39]  <daniels> ajax: hmm, wouldn't you need to hack GWA for symmetry?
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[17:06:18]  <daniels> ajax: else someone's going to get and save the current cursor (not displayed but presumably returned as crosshairs), set their own cursor (unhide), and then restore the old one.
 [17:06:31]  <daniels> aside from that, i heartily approve.  our patch is pretty fugly.
 [17:07:00]  <daniels> (hack DefineInitialRootWindow or thereabouts to declare a 0x0+0x0 empty cursor.)
 [17:07:48]  <ajax^ you'll call CWA to set, which will turn off CursorGloballyHidden
 [17:07:58]  <ajax> so, shouldn't need to touch GWA at all
 [17:11:44]  <daniels^ right, the point is that once you've set the cursor, it will never return to hidden
 [17:12:22]  <ajax> that's sort of the intent though.  i just want to hide the X until something defines the real cursor to use
 [17:12:26]  <daniels> iow, CursorIsHiddenAsADefaultStateUnlessToldOtherwise, instead of CursorIsGloballyHiddenAtThisPointInTime
 [17:12:38]  <ajax> maybe CursorInitiallyHidden then?
 [17:12:49]  <ajax> i mean, we already have a stfu mode, it's XFixesHideCursor
 [17:13:05]  <daniels> yeah, i guess we want CIH (maybe even by default?) for normal people, as well as CIHAADSUTO for touchscreen devices.
 [17:13:16]  <daniels> but flashing up the crosshairs is the _suck_.
 [17:14:11]  <ajax> you won't though.  metacity (or whatever) will load the cursor theme, which defines some Cursor objects; then you set it with DefineCursor
 [17:14:41]  <daniels> the thing is, everyone who needs this (which is a lot of people) ends up NIHing it.  but at the same time, i can't help but feel that this was what was happening in 1995; the very same thought process behind all the bizzare options and #ifdefs that now make us sigh and delete.
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[17:15:13]  <daniels> mmm.  s/metacity/matchbox/ of course, but i get the creeping feeling you're right here.
 [17:15:23]  <daniels> also allows us to be reductionist in terms of weirdshit options, which, hey, result.
 [17:15:29]  <ajax> i'm fine with doing it by default too, i'm just trying to get the behaviour to be something we can call reasonable with a straight face.
 [17:16:09]  <ajax> i think "suppressed until first DefineCursor, if you want it really gone call FHC first" is reasonable
 [17:17:17]  <cjb> math_b: so, what do we have to do to get your nsc patch tested/committed?
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[17:17:42]  <ajax> i'm morally opposed to committing to nsc or cyrix, sorry.
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[17:18:50]  <daniels> ajax: okay, ack
 [17:18:52]  * cjb will accept a removal of them from xorg.modules in lieu of a fix.
 [17:18:59]  <ajax> i thought i already did that
 [17:19:11]  <cjb> seems not.
 [17:19:56]  <ajax> fixed.
 [17:20:13]  <cjb> danke.
 [17:20:21]  <cjb> oh, you should remove their deps as well
 [17:20:25]  <cjb> from xorg-video-drivers.
 [17:20:35]  <math_b> couldn't care less, tbh
 [17:21:21]  <ajax> daniels: cool.  i'll test on at least one actual machine first though.
 [17:21:28]  <cjb^ looks like cyrix got removed but nsc didn't, so there's still a <dep package="xf86-video-nsc"/> in <metamodule id="xorg-drivers">.
 [17:21:52]  <ajax^ re-fixed
 [17:22:04]  <daniels^ tsk
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[17:22:11]  <daniels> ajax: you're so conservative these days.
 [17:22:24]  <daniels> just push it to f10 and 5.2 and what could possibly go wrong
 [17:22:53]  <ajax> tough for me to get it into 5.2 at this point.
 [17:23:27]  <ajax> will definitely happen for f10 though
 [17:23:34]  <halfline> call it a security fix
 [17:23:48]  <CosmicPenguin> that actually a good thing - we'll see how many people squeal when -nsc disappears
 [17:23:51]  * CosmicPenguin is guessing few
 [17:24:00]  <cjb^ it's only disappearing from tinderbox and jhbuild.
 [17:24:10]  <CosmicPenguin> thats a start... :)
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[17:30:21]  <davidL> is it necessary to call XCloseDisplay after another part of my program fails (failing to grab the pointer for example)?
 [17:30:46]  <cjb^ Do you want the display to be closed?
 [17:31:04]  <cjb> oh, or are you asking if you have to close and reopen it after an error?  no, you don't.
 [17:31:24]  <cjb> (in soviet X after a fatal error, the xserver closes you.)
 [17:31:35]  <davidL> the program just exits after an error, I'm asking if I have to close the display before I exit
 [17:31:47]  <daniels> cjb: xlib, but yeah
 [17:31:51]  <daniels> davidL: no, don't worry about it
 [17:32:10]  <cjb^ oh, good point.  that's my main reason for being interested in libxcb at the moment.
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[17:32:50]  <davidL> thanks
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[17:34:05]  <daniels> cjb: xlib is everyone's main reason for being interested in libxcb.
 [17:34:10]  <halfline> cjb: XSetIOErrorHandler might be easier than porting to a whole new xlib api
 [17:34:18]  <cjb> halfline: doesn't work.
 [17:34:33]  <cjb> you can put whatever you like in it; you'll still be killed after it returns.
 [17:34:34]  <halfline> err XSetErrorHandler with no IO
 [17:34:38]  <halfline> and longjmp
[17:34:44]  <cjb> (unless what you put in it is "exec" or "longjmp"
 [17:34:45]  <cjb> )
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[17:34:51]  <cjb> halfline: that's not a solution ;-)
 [17:34:55]  <math_b> GX2 is handled by geode right ?
 [17:34:59]  <daniels> cjb: yeah, but you _really_ don't want to try reconnecting after XSetIOErrorHandler.
 [17:35:22]  <cjb> math_b: yes
 [17:35:37]  <halfline> just to be clear, IOErrorHandler needs longjmp, ErrorHandler doesn't
 [17:35:46]  <cjb> right.
 [17:35:59]  <cjb> IOErrorHandler is what you get if you're running a non-X daemon that happens to connect to X, and X dies.
 [17:36:16]  <cjb> (in this case, ohmd)
 [17:36:21]  <cjb> s/this/my/ :)
 [17:37:24]  <cjb> daniels: ah, why's that?
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[17:38:30]  <daniels> cjb: last i checked, xlib didn't bother cleaning anything up, so any kinds of random crap could (and would) happen.
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[17:39:05]  <cjb> ah, unfortunate.
 [17:39:13]  <daniels> xlib is, yes.
 [17:39:27]  <cjb> but if that's true, shouldn't the longjmp hack fail in the same way?
 [17:40:51]  <halfline> longjmp hacks are always fragile as rule
 [17:41:14]  <cjb> Sure.  But lots of projects are using this one.  :)
 [17:41:48]  <halfline> i don't think there are many projects that try to reopen a display after an xio error
 [17:42:11]  <halfline> but maybe there are, and maybe it works. i have no idea
 [17:42:34]  * halfline has to go
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[17:58:04]  <math_b> is video-i830 still relevant ?
 [17:58:23]  <math_b> it's in module
 [17:58:25]  <math_b> list
 [17:58:36]  <math_b> but not in tinderbox
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[18:02:01]  <math_b> hum, forget that, I smoked.
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[18:21:10]  <CosmicPenguin> okay, I figure if I make enough of the cairo benchmarks work, I will fix bugs by magic
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[18:27:35]  <math_b> Hum, the xfree86 power management layer. very nice. very unused is you don't have (yet) an hardware that support upcoming technologies such as APM.
 [18:28:21]  <daniels^ to be fair, it does actually support acpi
 [18:28:43]  <math_b^ that's where it's fun: not for power managment event
 [18:28:54]  <daniels> yeah, i know
 [18:28:57]  <daniels> awesome, isn't it?
 [18:28:59]  <math_b> only for video device notification
 [18:29:11]  <daniels> yeah
 [18:29:19]  <math_b> and i830 is the only user
 [18:29:22]  <daniels> yep
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[18:33:35]  <math_b> oh, and /proc/acpi/event is officially deprecated, so event that won't work for long
 [18:34:35]  <daniels> yeah, it shouldn't be talking to acpi at all.  the grand glorious future involves consolekit or similar bonghits, i assume.
 [18:34:36]  <wereHamster> doesn't hald support what you need?
 [18:34:45]  <daniels> ha.  no.
 [18:34:52]  <daniels> well, maybe.  but i'm assuming not.
 [18:35:00]  <daniels> if it does, i'm sure it'll be removed with the devicekit rewrite.
 [18:42:18]  <math_b> we should rename xserver into XWindowKit, that would make it super sexy
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----- Log file opened 2008-08-20T10:00 -----
[10:00:32]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[10:00:32]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[10:00:32]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aaronp agd5f aggelos_ ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc-away alanc_away anderco anholt b0le bartman Batchy Battousai bbyer benjsc bernie bgoglin bobbens bradd___ bryce buggs cbrake cheeseboy cjb coling crossbuilder cskmax ctyler-camping cworth dagb daniels darktama davej dberkholz Dodji dr-xorg Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds dwmw2 eboettcher egbert_away emmes erikg fifthbro fijnman glisse gmansi gordon_jin GuentherB gustaf1 hachi halfline haubi Herman Ingmar jbarnes jcristau jwelsh keithp kem krh leio Lerc libv londo MacSlow Maedris__ malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu marvil07 math_b mjg59 mmc mpr MrCooper mvo ndim nha ohsix onestone Ori_B osiris__ otavio papillon81 PauloZanoni pcpa pedroerp pete__c Plagman_1 psyquark RaoulDuke raster ribbits rnoland rvalles soren spstarr_work sputnik66 stillunknown stukreit sxpert_ sx|lappy t4bz TBBle tcoppi teuf tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker wereHamster whot xnixmt z3ro_ Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
[10:02:04]  <xnixmt> can I get the NET_WM_CLASS property of a window with xwininfo
 [10:02:17]  <ajax> no, but you can with xprop
 [10:03:00]  <xnixmt> ah is it just WM_CLASS(STRING)
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[10:34:27]  <ajax> MrCooper: what's the motivation for the CopyArea call in exaDoShmPutImage?  seems like it can't add any meaningful acceleration
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[10:36:32]  <MrCooper> ajax: that's just the fallback for when exaDoPutImage doesn't work, borrowed from fbShmPutImage
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[10:37:59]  <ajax> you fall back to fbShmPutImage anyway though
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[10:42:19]  <MrCooper> hmm, good point :)
 [10:42:26]  <MrCooper> not sure why I left that in there
 [10:42:54]  <ajax> also, the DamageDamageRegion in exaShmPutImage needs to go before rendering, not after.
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[10:44:46]  <MrCooper> ajax: no, that'll break the migration code
 [10:45:02]  <ajax> your choice is to break the migration code or the software cursor code
 [10:45:32]  <ajax> swcursor needs damage before so it can remove the glyph from the scene
 [10:46:31]  <MrCooper> yeah, we discussed that yesterday
 [10:46:34]  <daniels> don't we already have DamageAfterDamage() or so?
 [10:46:42]  <ajax> we have damageReportPostOp, yes.
 [10:46:49]  <MrCooper> I don't think there's any solution for both other than wrapping ShmPutImage in the damage layer
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[10:47:16]  <MrCooper> daniels: look at DamageDamageRegion, it does pre and post work at once
 [10:48:05]  <daniels> ajax: unfortunate naming.
 [10:48:18]  <MrCooper+ maybe the fallback code in exaDoShmPutImage is for exaPutImage
 [10:48:24]  <daniels^ if only it was humanly possible to somehow change the api.
 [10:49:16]  <MrCooper^ you're speaking in riddles
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[10:49:53]  <ajax> MrCooper: why does moving the damage before rendering break migration for shmputimage but not for normal putimage?
 [10:51:05]  <MrCooper^ PutImage is wrapped by the damage layer
 [10:51:32]  <daniels> and wrapping ShmPutImage is impossible?
 [10:51:36]  <daniels> the dix isn't immutable, as it turns out.
 [10:52:02]  <ajax> above exa, yes.  which is logically equivalent to doing your own damage in your shmputimage hook.
 [10:52:17]  <MrCooper^ no
 [10:52:44]  <MrCooper> there's no way to properly do the pre and post damage work before and after the actual operation other than in a damage wrapper
 [10:54:06]  <daniels> okay.  so we can't turn shmputimage into something wrappable by damage?
 [10:54:18]  <ajax^ i want to know _why_ first.  all i'm hearing is assertion.
 [10:55:04]  <MrCooper^ EXA needs to know what will be damaged by an operation beforehand and get the actual damage afterwards
 [10:55:05]  <ajax> damageShmPutImage does thing A, calls down to exaShmPutImage which does B, then does thing C.  this is exactly equivalent to exaShmPutImage itself doing A, then B, then C.
 [10:55:14]  <MrCooper> everything else seems to need everything beforehand
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[10:56:53]  <ajax> the regions before and after are not different.
 [10:58:05]  <MrCooper^ if the pending damage isn't correct or the damage is recorded before the actual operation, the EXA migration logic will make wrong decisions
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[10:59:34]  <ajax> if the pending damage is wrong somethings already wrong.  and damage reports before for plain putimage already; so, logically, the migration logic is doing wrong things already.  right?
 [10:59:46]  <ajax> "is wrong"?  what does that even mean?
 [10:59:51]  <MrCooper> no
 [10:59:59]  <MrCooper> look at damagePutImage
 [11:00:19]  <MrCooper> damageDamageBox() only changes the pending damage region for the EXA damage record
 [11:00:33]  <MrCooper> then damageReportPostOp actually records the damage
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[11:01:22]  <MrCooper> DamageDamageRegion does both at once, which is never right for EXA
 [11:02:04]  <MrCooper> that's why EXA manually constructs the pending damage in some places
 [11:02:07]  <ajax> so you just need damageDamageRegion to be exported.
 [11:02:25]  <ajax> (lovely naming we've got)
 [11:03:12]  <MrCooper> not sure its signature is suitable for public consumption
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[11:04:51]  <ajax> it is kind of ugly, yeah
 [11:05:34]  <MrCooper> maybe splitting off the post op part to something like DamageDamageReportPostOp could work
 [11:07:57]  <ajax> could be.  i'd want to check the other internal uses of DDR, i suppose.
 [11:08:16]  <ajax> anyway, yeah.  shm functions in the screenrec.  all opposed?
 [11:10:41]  <ajax> motion carries.
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[11:15:50]  <johnflux> Hey all
 [11:17:01]  <johnflux> daniels: in xrender, the composite hook function can be called with maskX and maskY coordinates set, but the prepareComposite hook function has the pMask and pMaskPicture  as NULL
 [11:17:13]  <johnflux> I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it
 [11:20:26]  <ajax> MrCooper: thanks for the patient explanation
 [11:20:50]  <MrCooper> np
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[11:21:30]  <MrCooper> johnflux: if there's no mask, ignore the mask coordinates?
 [11:24:10]  <johnflux^ maybe..  hmm.  i have one rendercheck failure - trying to track down why it's failling
 [11:24:17]  <johnflux> I guess it's not because of the mask coordinates
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[11:31:38]  <ajax> hmm.  my hidecursor hack seems to have hidden it quite permanently.
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[11:55:34]  <johnflux> MrCooper: Xfbdev also fails the rendercheck
[11:55:49]  <johnflux> so I think it might be a bug in kdrive
 [12:00:12]  <ajax> aaw, you can't just wait until the first CWA, because we call that in InitRootWindow.
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[12:46:51]  <daniels> ajax: ruh row.
 [12:47:03]  <daniels> how about just messing with IRW?
 [12:47:11]  <daniels> surely that has the same one-shot semantics as what you wanted.
 [12:49:14]  <daniels> http://home.fooishbar.org/~daniels/messy-null-root-cursor.diff
 [12:51:09]  <ajax> i got it working
 [12:51:38]  <ajax> you do still need to define the root window's cursor set, so you can't just skip it in IRW
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[12:52:32]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/xserver-1.5.0-hide-cursor.patch works
 [12:53:19]  <ajax> highlights that ConnectionInfo needs a proper decl, but.
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[13:07:49]  <ajax> and i'm not completely sold that checking for its nonnullness is the right way to figure out that it's a client request, but it certainly works.
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[14:19:08]  <stillunknown> cworth: ping
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[15:03:48]  <ajax> keithp: damage tracking on mitshm pixmaps is undefined, yes?
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[15:04:20]  <ajax> hard to see how it could be otherwise
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[15:09:03]  <math_b> yet more pci cleanup: lnx_ia64.c and ia64Pci.h are in fact dead
 [15:10:43]  <math_b> and shared/ia64Pci.c is shared between linux linux and linux
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[15:21:04]  <stillunknown> Can anyone conform that sw-rendered "rendercheck -f a8r8g8b8,r5g5b5,x1r5g5b5 -t blend" results in a lot of errors?
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[15:26:01]  <math_b> Cleanup patch: http://pastebin.com/m901294c together with a
 [15:26:18]  <math_b> "git rm hw/xfree86/os-support/shared/ia64Pci.h"
 [15:26:39]  <math_b> and "git mv hw/xfree86/os-support/shared/ia64Pci.c hw/xfree86/os-support/linux/lnx_ia64.c"
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[15:36:26]  <ajax> aaw, MrCooper went away
 [15:36:53]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/mitshm-screen-hooks.patch
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[15:37:37]  <ajax> CosmicPenguin: ^^ if you could try this as well that'd be great, should be a better fix for the ShmPutImage corruption you were seeing
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[15:54:36]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: oh, snap!
 [15:54:39]  <CosmicPenguin> I'll try it asap
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[16:00:05]  <CosmicPenguin> ts
 [16:00:11]  <CosmicPenguin> nice -irssi
 [16:00:27]  <CosmicPenguin> I was going to say, that I would try it after the cairo tests I am running
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[16:15:24]  <stillunknown> Is there any difference between x1r5g5b5 and r5g5b5?
 [16:20:36]  <jcristau> oh, win. the randr swap dispatch stuff just returns BadImplementation.
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[16:24:16]  <stillunknown> anholt: ping
 [16:25:21]  <fredrikh^ maybe the latter is 15bpp
 [16:25:45]  <stillunknown> The problem is that render doesn't not define any 15 bpp formats.
 [16:25:57]  <stillunknown> And still rendercheck is picking them up :-?
 [16:26:57]  * fredrikh shrugs
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[16:31:04]  <stillunknown> keithp: do you have any idea where a r5g5b5 format could come from?
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[16:38:33]  <keithp> stillunknown: depth 15 screens; preferred by some as they offer true greys
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[16:39:31]  <stillunknown> keithp: but render defines them nowhere
 [16:39:48]  <stillunknown> it only has x1r5g5b5
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[16:41:36]  <jcristau> so, yet another reason why gtk calling rrgetscreenresources is a bad idea
 [16:42:04]  <keithp> stillunknown: 'x1' means 'unused'
 [16:42:27]  <keithp> one could imagine r5g5x1b5 as well, although I haven't ever seen that
 [16:43:13]  <stillunknown^ yes, but why do these 15bpp formats show up and not just the 16 bpp form?
 [16:43:24]  <keithp^ no-one uses 15bpp
 [16:43:34]  <keithp> that would be insane
 [16:44:07]  <stillunknown> rendercheck picks up a r5g5b5 format with depth 15 and one with 16
 [16:44:18]  <stillunknown> what is supposed to be done with the 15 one?
 [16:44:29]  <keithp> depth, not bpp
 [16:45:02]  <keithp> x1r5g5b5 should be matched with a depth 15 visual
 [16:45:52]  <stillunknown> Then why does the depth 16 r5g5b5 exist?
 [16:46:32]  <keithp> because it can
 [16:46:38]  <keithp> it's not terribly useful
 [16:46:56]  <keithp> depth 15 and depth 16 r5g5b5 would use precisely the same code
 [16:47:25]  <keithp> and, depending on how the render formats are created, it might construct everything that can work, not just things that should be used
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[16:53:35]  <jg> afternoon keithp
 [16:54:27]  <jg> why would anyone do 15bpp anyway?  Any sane person does 5/6/5.... stillunknown...
 [16:54:54]  <stillunknown> I should at least try and fix rendercheck.
 [16:55:24]  <jg> since your eye is green sensitive, you always try to put an extra bit in green.
 [16:55:29]  <keithp^ depth 15 means true grey; depth 16 gives either a magenta or green tint
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[16:55:37]  <ohsix> even on pc hardware it used to occur often enough, but on embedded devices and stuff its pretty well placed
 [16:55:47]  <keithp> jg: apple used to use depth 15 a lot
 [16:55:53]  <jg> sigh...
 [16:56:24]  <keithp^ it makes sense when you see the colors that depth 16 gives you
 [16:56:43]  <keithp> although, anyone interested in usable color quickly abandons 16bpp these days.
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[16:57:10]  <ohsix> or they use the extra bit on blue :]
 [16:57:19]  <jg> now there is insanity.
 [16:57:40]  <keithp> ohsix: sometimes you get one bit of alpha
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[17:01:23]  <jg> keithp: we toyed with that idea, but decided if we were going to do serious alpha, we'd use a compositing manager and depth switch on the way to the screen, if we ever got so ambitous.
 [17:01:43]  <jg> well, gotta run for the train.
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[17:28:35]  <ajax> keithp: so, the randr protocol bits from xorg@ a few weeks ago.
 [17:29:05]  <ajax> any objection to banging that out as protocol 1.3 and quietly shuffling all the grandiose gpu object and etc stuff to randr 1.4?
 [17:29:21]  <ajax> ----- Log file opened 2008-08-20T18:02 -----
[21:19:26]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[21:19:40]  <jcristau> whot: sounds like a plan
 [21:21:45]  <jcristau> although, i could probably ssh -X to some debian sparc machine..
 [21:24:02]  <jcristau> hmm. that could even work. i can at least reproduce the BadImplementation errors now :)
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[21:29:03]  <jcristau> whot: looks like you got yourself some minions to work on evdev features :)
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[21:33:49]  <whot> jcristau: yeah, it's great, innit?
 [21:34:11]  <whot> evdev is functionally pretty equiv. to mousedrv now
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[22:08:38]  <jcristau> whot: ok i lied. http://people.freedesktop.org/~jcristau/0001-Add-swapped-dispatch-for-randr-1.2-requests.patch (not even compile tested)
 [22:11:02]  <whot^ +    swaps(&stuff->lentgh, n);
 [22:11:11]  <whot> in SProcRRSetScreenSize
 [22:11:13]  <jcristau> heh
 [22:11:16]  <jcristau> "oops"
 [22:15:03]  <whot^ i'll have a look at it after lunch.
 [22:15:56]  <jcristau> maybe by then it will actually build
 [22:17:00]  <wereHamster> wasn't there a plan to use xcb for the server-side bindings as well?
 [22:19:13]  <jcristau> there, librandr.la built.
 [22:19:41]  <jcristau> wereHamster: there was a plan, but no code afaik
 [22:20:08]  <wereHamster> after my exams I'll have time :)
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[22:25:35]  <alanc> wereHamster: more of a plea than a plan after we got sick and tired of fixing security holes in every extensions protocol dispatch code, so if you do it, we'll all love you lots
 [22:27:06]  <jcristau> i fail. 'Fatal server error: Not implemented'
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[22:29:01]  <wereHamster> is xcb really that old: Copyright (C) 2001-2004 ?
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[22:38:17]  <whot> oh ffs xkb.
 [22:40:34]  <whot> if I read this correctly, any action that requires virtual modifiers will never trigger
 [22:41:35]  <jcristau> hrm. looks like i need a ReplySwapVector.
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[22:44:10]  <whot> airlied: you got a RHEL box at hand?
 [22:44:46]  <airlied^ not a real one, I have a CentOS 5 kvm running
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[22:45:36]  <whot> airlied: good enough. can you mail me the output of setxkbmap -layout "us,de" -option "grp:alts_toggle" | xkbcomp -xkb - out.xkb
 [22:46:31]  <whot> make that setxkbmap -print ...
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[22:49:56]  <airlied> lots of warnings
 [22:50:17]  <airlied> http://pastebin.com/m540f7c7d
 [22:51:22]  <whot> I need the out.xkb file please
 [22:51:31]  <airlied> ah ..
 [22:52:56]  <airlied> whot: sent to rh addr
 [22:53:14]  <whot> merci
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[23:08:39]  <cjb> woo, green tinderbox.
 [23:08:44]  <cjb> .. except the sparc box.
 [23:09:43]  <cjb> glxdricommon.c:35:39: error: GL/internal/dri_interface.h: No such file or directory
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[23:10:34]  <cjb> hmph, libgl install seems to go fine.
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[23:17:47]  <cjb> well, nothing called dri_interface.h exists on the disk.  So it's more than it not getting into the right place.
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[23:58:38]  <airlied> cjb: mesa installs it
 ----- [2008-08-21] -----
 [00:08:44]  <cjb^ mesa doesn't seem to be even building it, since locate can't find it
 [00:08:56]  <cjb> could you take a look at the configure/build log and see if anything looks obviously bogus?
 [00:09:07]  <cjb> http://tinderbox.x.org/builds/2008-08-21-0004/logs/libGL/
 [00:10:29]  <airlied> hmm it not building a dri mesa
 [00:10:31]  <jcristau> "        Driver:          xlib"
 [00:10:36]  <jcristau> you want --with-driver=dri
 [00:12:00]  <cjb> great, thanks
 [00:12:40]  <cjb> pushed, we'll see if the next build works
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[00:48:16]  <whot> huzaah. i found the bug
 [00:48:25]  * whot celebrates
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[01:09:47]  <cheeseboy> what bug?
 [01:15:56]  <whot> alts_toggle brokenness
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[01:34:57]  <jcristau> whot: and i found mine :) (the call to WriteSwappedDataToClient in ProcRRQueryOutputProperty was corrupting stuff)
 [01:50:50]  <jcristau> updated patch, same url, xrandr --verbose works :)
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[01:53:14]  * cjb notes a fully green tinderbox for the first time in months.
 [01:53:26]  <cjb> ajax: you should get k-hole up again so it can go back to being at least partly red.
 [01:54:14]  <cjb> and I should merge the functional tests.
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[02:52:15]  <tjaalton> whot: there doesn't seem to be a tarball for inputproto 1.9.99.4?
 [02:55:37]  <whot^ correct, there aren't any tarballs for the .99.x releases yet
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[03:01:24]  <tjaalton> whot: ok, so coming later or should I just build one for my own purposes?-)
 [03:02:38]  <whot^ just build one.
 [03:02:59]  <tjaalton^ k, thanks
 [03:03:32]  <whot^ all the inputproto > 1.9 stuff relies on git master server (unreleased), libX11 (unreleased), libXext (unreleased) and libXi (unreleased). so unless we get libXi and libXext releases, there isn't much point of having inputproto tarballs
 [03:04:15]  <tjaalton^ sure, but I can have the latest inputproto without breaking anything with 1.5?
 [03:04:38]  <tjaalton> or maybe I'll just backport the IDP on top of 1.4.x..
 [03:04:52]  <jcristau> and call it 1.4.99.x :)
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[03:04:58]  <tjaalton> hehe
 [03:05:21]  <jcristau> then you can do an 1.5 release with the properties and without the XI2 stuff
 [03:05:33]  <tjaalton> that sounds plausible
 [03:06:09]  <tjaalton> whot: what do you think about that idea?
 [03:06:11]  <whot^ yep, that works
 [03:06:24]  <whot> still waiting for yay or nay on the IDP for server-1.5.
 [03:06:41]  <tjaalton> yay!
 [03:06:50]  <tjaalton> :)
 [03:08:00]  <whot> hehe
 [03:09:42]  <whot> vignatti: ad carnivore: you should try haggis when you're in EDI. it's fantastic
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[03:14:06]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:19:54]  <whot> jcristau: can't see anything obviously wrong in the patch.
 [03:20:15]  <whot> bar indentation in hunk 7
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[03:21:06]  <jcristau> yay for consistent indentation. sometimes tab, sometimes 8 spaces
 [03:22:00]  <whot> hehe
 [03:29:32]  <jcristau^ does something need to be done for events as well?
 [03:32:37]  <jcristau> hmm. SRRNotifyEvent looks like it should take care of those.
 [03:33:01]  <whot^ yep,looks like it
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[03:41:17]  <jcristau> whot: pushed. thanks again for the review.
 [03:44:34]  <whot^ no worries
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[10:06:45]  <ajax> MrCooper: http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/mitshm-screen-hooks.patch look plausible?
 [10:09:02]  <daniels> jesus christ x sucks
 [10:09:16]  <ajax> what this time?
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[10:10:19]  <daniels> DriverProc(GET_REQUIRED_HW_INTERFACES)
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[10:10:38]  <daniels> ajax: anyway, erm, shouldn't ShmPutImage be a GC op?
 [10:10:40]  <MrCooper+ all the pending damage stuff in exaShmPutImage can go thanks to damageShmPutImage
 [10:11:19]  <ajax^ yeah, i wasn't quite clear how much of it needed to remain.
 [10:12:12]  <ajax> daniels: quite possibly.
 [10:13:28]  <ajax> i think the strong argument for being a GC op is "is this something the server might want to use for internal rendering purposes", and i don't think that's true of shmput
 [10:14:08]  <daniels> mm, the strong argument is really 'is this symmetrical with PutImage' imo
 [10:14:30]  <daniels> i know we've never tried this before, but i figure we could actually attempt to stop violating the principle of least surprise at some point ;)
 [10:15:44]  <ajax> maybe we're coming at this the wrong way
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[10:16:03]  <MrCooper> can't say I understand the logic behind where to put what, e.g. PutImage vs. GetImage
 [10:16:19]  <ajax^ GetImage is specified without reference to a GC.  PutImage is.
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[10:16:37]  <MrCooper> as is ShmPutImage
 [10:16:45]  <mjg59> aHELLO I'M ON A TRAIN
 [10:17:06]  <mjg59> Gosh. Latency means that things turn up in entirely the wrong channel.
 [10:17:17]  <daniels> MrCooper: err
 [10:17:18]  <daniels>     REQUEST_SIZE_MATCH(xShmPutImageReq);
 [10:17:18]  <daniels>     VALIDATE_DRAWABLE_AND_GC(stuff->drawable, pDraw, DixWriteAccess);
 [10:17:42]  <ajax> so here's the thing.  what fundamental difference is there between PutImage and ShmPutImage that would necessitate different implementations?
 [10:18:03]  <daniels^ history?
 [10:18:11]  <ajax> iow: why is this not all done relative to the GC way way up at dispatch time
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[10:20:18]  <daniels> up, enter.
 [10:24:30]  <daniels>         num = xf86AllocateEntity();
 [10:24:30]  <daniels>         p = xf86Entities[num];
 [10:24:32]  <daniels> API OF THE FUTURE.
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[10:25:24]  <ajax> you maniacs!  you blew it up!
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[10:33:21]  <ajax> i'm having real trouble fathoming why shmput is so bonged.
 [10:34:03]  <ajax> the difference between miSPI and fbSPI seems to be that the latter just wraps the image in a pixmap header, where the former creates a whole new pixmap, puts into it, then copyareas.
 [10:34:14]  <daniels> giggle.
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[10:34:36]  <ajax> i'm having difficulty coming up with a scenario where the latter would work but the former wouldn't
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[10:35:07]  <stillunknown> You saw that everything should have "shm" beheaviour?
 [10:35:12]  <stillunknown> s/saw/say
 [10:35:37]  <ajax> those are words, but they don't seem to form a parseable question.
 [10:35:42]  <CosmicPenguin^ uh, oh - did I send you on a wild goose chase through questionable code?
 [10:36:20]  <ajax^ i don't know that it's wild
 [10:36:35]  <CosmicPenguin> but there are geese involved?
 [10:36:36]  <stillunknown> ajax: You would prefer everything to wrap images instead of copying?
 [10:37:19]  <daniels^ 'everything'?
 [10:37:30]  <ajax> anything calling shmput, i think he means
 [10:37:33]  <CosmicPenguin> You know the old saying - When life gives you geese, make foie gras
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[10:38:46]  <stillunknown> ajax: I was thinking even wider than that, but i'll stop now, before i embarress myself.
 [10:40:05]  <ajax> yeah, i'm pretty sure that whole pile of crap can go.
 [10:42:12]  <stillunknown> Ignore what i said, before the misunderstanding becomes even bigger.
 [10:42:37]  <stillunknown> but fbShmPutImage is indeed unusual
 [10:43:39]  <stillunknown> Some guy from opera said they used zpixmap with shm, to avoid some kind of performance problem.
 [10:43:46]  <stillunknown> This makes it apparent why.
 [10:44:05]  <stillunknown> At least i remember something along those lines.
 [10:45:03]  <ajax> and i really need to finish ripping out the span code.
 [10:45:03]  <MrCooper> that was about ShmPixmaps I think
 [10:45:11]  <ajax> spans!  they suck.
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[10:48:20]  <stillunknown> Were the xfree86 guys thinking normally when they wrote it?
 [10:48:27]  <stillunknown> (in general for the xserver)
 [10:49:16]  <stillunknown> Or is it mostly case of not being useful in this day and age?
 [10:50:07]  <ajax> they didn't write the mitshm code
 [10:50:39]  <stillunknown> You mean it's actually new'ish extension?
 [10:51:25]  <ajax> no.  it predates xfree86.
 [10:51:56]  <stillunknown> I thought xfree86 was written from scratch.
 [10:52:00]  <mjg59> X has a long and glorious tradition that goes back far further than xfree86
 [10:52:03]  <mjg59> Ask jg about it some time
 [10:52:25]  <mjg59> It's why the server directory structure makes no sense whatsoever
 [10:53:21]  <ajax> first release of XFree86 was september of 1992
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[10:53:23]  <ajax> compare:
 [10:53:25]  <ajax> Copyright 1989, 1998  The Open Group
 [10:55:59]  <ajax> oh good, shmputimage is broken in the face of xinerama too
 [10:56:30]  <stillunknown> I was a child when xfree86 was born, so i don't know all the history.
 [10:57:12]  <ajax> oh, no, no it isn't, it's just being clever
 [10:57:20]  <jg> stillunknown: old fart has burning ears....
 [10:57:25]  <stillunknown> The first time i used X was around the same time that 2.6.0 was included in suse.
 [10:57:32]  <jg> There are bits I typed in 1984....
 [10:57:44]  <stillunknown> 2.6.0 as in kernel
 [10:58:56]  <CosmicPenguin> heh... "back in my day, we didn't have ASCII - we typed the bits directly.  And we liked it!"
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[10:59:06]  <jg> ajax: I think the mitshm was badly limited by what sysV shared memory would allow....  I think keithp might have had his fingers in it.
 [10:59:36]  <jg> mmap and friends were in 4.2BSD's manual, but never implemented until way later....
 [10:59:40]  <stillunknown^ I thought keithp was the only left from forgotten times.
 [10:59:42]  <jg> (IIRC).
 [10:59:58]  <jg> stillunknown: I predate keithp... I go back to the dawn of X's history....
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[11:00:32]  <stillunknown> The good old days.
 [11:01:05]  <jg^ X was started by Bob Scheifler and myself, hacking on some code that Paul Asente (W) had written in reaction to VGTS....
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[11:03:14]  <jg> stillunknown: more precisely, the bad old days...
 [11:03:30]  <stillunknown> Let's think of the children, shall we :-)
 [11:04:17]  <tjaalton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(operating_system)
 [11:07:31]  <jg> and X differered fundamentally from W or VGTS by going to an asynchronous, streaming protocol.
 [11:08:29]  <jg> in a nod to the previous naming, we called it X, and have regretted the name ever since....  Binding the free variable was a criminal offense ;-).
 [11:10:14]  <wereHamster> how would you call it now (if you had the chance to rename it)?
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[11:25:38]  <daniels> DisplayKit
 [11:27:19]  <nha> the upside is that it has one of the shortest urls there can be
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[11:29:06]  <daniels> nha: unfortunately x.ws is reserved by samoanic
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[11:41:22]  <wereHamster> daniels: X12 will be DisplayKit, right? :)
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[11:43:50]  <daniels> not if i have anything to do with it.
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[13:28:17]  <ajax> aaronp: do you guys try to support shm pixmaps at all?
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[13:32:35]  <ajax> cjb: i should, yeah, but there's still some kvm funkiness i want to sort out first
 [13:33:08]  <ajax> the joys of prerelease hardware
 [13:34:27]  <ajax> i'm not completely sure it's a hardware bug, but it's certainly hardware that's very good at triggering other bugs.
 [13:34:39]  <stillunknown> What's the command to get a listing of all xorg visuals?
 [13:34:48]  <ajax> xdpyinfo
 [13:36:23]  <stillunknown> strange, why would XMatchVisualInfo segfault on a request for a depth 32 visual?
 [13:36:27]  <stillunknown> (i have one)
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[13:39:04]  <aaronp> ajax: No, they just look like sysmem pixmaps that can't be migrated.
 [13:44:38]  <ajax^ let's phrase it differently.  do you care about ShmRegisterFuncs() at all?
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[13:45:34]  <ajax> i'm within epsilon of dispatching shmputimage directly into the gc and not exposing a secondary path at all, and possibly also removing shm pixmaps entirely
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[13:45:46]  <ajax> the former for correctness, the latter because they kinda suck
 [13:48:59]  <marcheu> "kinda" ? I would say "big time"
 [13:51:13]  <tjaalton> what's preventing to fix bug 9209?
 [13:51:21]  <tjaalton> (MAXCLIENTS)
 [13:52:39]  <ajax> you trade more clients for fewer resources per client
 [13:53:27]  <ajax> i haven't heard anyone run into the resource limit yet, so maybe it's not a big deal
 [13:53:42]  <ajax> but eventually someone'll want 1024 clients...
 [13:58:26]  <tjaalton> we've hit that years ago (lots of clients with xload running and directing the output on a single server :)
 [14:01:46]  <tjaalton> used to be a debian box, now it's rhel4 and there the limit is raised
 [14:02:01]  <ajax> yeah, i remember adding that patch
 [14:05:03]  <tjaalton> so it basically consumes more memory per client?
 [14:05:41]  <ajax> not really
 [14:05:51]  <ajax> the XID space is carved up weird
 [14:06:09]  <ajax> (when i say "resources" i mean "protocol objects with an XID")
 [14:06:40]  <ajax> top three bits are reserved (fuck you lisp), next eight bits are client id, the rest are for the client to allocate however it likes.
 [14:07:28]  <stillunknown> does xtest also deal with rendering correctness?
 [14:08:04]  <ajax> so, with 256 clients, each of them can create up to 2 ^ (32 - 8 - 3) ~= 2 million resources
 [14:08:26]  <ajax> 512 clients, one million resources each.  etc.
 [14:09:05]  <tjaalton> ah..
 [14:09:47]  <ajax> XIDs are allocated client-side to avoid round-tripping to the server on every resource creation, but that means you have to be able to allocate unique ids within each client.  so you have to have some partition...
 [14:10:39]  <ajax> i suppose the right way to fix this is to do a field survey of how many resources a typical "small" app and a typical "big" app use.
 [14:10:43]  <anholt> iwbni there was a small initial allocation and you had to ask for more.
 [14:10:57]  <ajax^ yeah, was going to suggest adding that to XC-MISC
 [14:13:03]  <ajax> on my machine, metacity is far and away the one with the most resources, and it's still down around the 2000 mark
 [14:13:54]  <ajax> you do still want a fairly sizable allocation per client since XID reuse is pretty fast and furious, and requires a round trip through xc-misc
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[14:14:59]  <tjaalton> ajax: how to count those?
 [14:14:59]  <ajax> and, you can't know that you're talking to an xlib that's new enough to know about the newer version of xc-misc
 [14:15:16]  <anholt> insert handwaving about xcb or xcb-util prefetching ids for you here.
 [14:15:18]  <ajax> tjaalton: xrestop, sum up the wins/gcs/fnts/pxms/misc columns for a row
 [14:15:26]  <tjaalton> k, thanks
 [14:17:07]  <tjaalton> my firefox has around 3500
 [14:18:02]  <ajax> this _might_ be a case where you could do protocol 11.1 meaningfully
 [14:18:37]  <ajax> which would let the server assign huge ranges to 11.0 clients and tiny ones to 11.0 clients
 [14:18:53]  <ajax> uh, tiny ones to 11.1 clients
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[14:30:16]  <tjaalton> ajax: mind if I quote the discussion on a bug report (on lp.net)?
 [14:30:33]  <ajax^ go for it.  i'm eminently quotable.
 [14:30:49]  <tjaalton> hehe ;)
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[15:08:24]  <aaronp> ajax: I just added code to call ShmRegisterFuncs(pScreen, NULL)
 [15:08:39]  <aaronp> If the server does something reasonable without calling that, that's fine with me.
 [15:08:58]  <ajax> right now that'll disable mitshm support, i'm pretty sure ;)
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[15:09:48]  <ajax> but yeah, the idea is to just slam the shm requests into the gc from a high level, since right now we get damage tracking wrong on ShmPutImage sometimes
 [15:10:55]  <aaronp> No, it disables SHM pixmaps but plugs in miShmPutImage, which seems to work.
 [15:11:42]  <ajax> it's slightly less efficient than it could be, but it certainly does work.
 [15:11:52]  <aaronp> There's some wonderfully convoluted code in ShmExtensionInit for that.
 [15:11:54]  <aaronp> Yeah.
 [15:12:19]  <ajax> anyway.  just wanted to make sure there wasn't some magic dma hack there you were relying on to make someone's motif app performant
 [15:12:25]  <aaronp> I found that plugging in a custom ShmPutImage improved things somewhat, but miShmPutImage was a huge enough improvement over SHM pixmaps that I figured simplest was best.
 [15:13:03]  <aaronp> No, we definitely don't do anything special to detect SHM pixmaps.
 [15:13:09]  <ajax> rockin'
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[17:17:16]  <anholt> keithp: 70% CPU time in pixmap migration while typing in the lj entry box.  I want uxa already.
 [17:17:54]  * airlied wonders why you aren't using exa pixmaps at least.
 [17:18:51]  <keithp> anholt: how's jbarnes doing on gtt mappings?
 [17:19:21]  <anholt> airlied: keithp thought that we needed more information in the createpixmap hook or something
 [17:19:39]  <jbarnes> I've got a few patches you can try
 [17:19:54]  <keithp^ maybe with anholt and krh's fixes things will be better?
 [17:19:57]  <jbarnes> but they're definitely not upstream acceptable
 [17:20:02]  <keithp> heh
 [17:20:11]  <keithp> kludge-fest-o-rama
 [17:20:17]  <jbarnes> well I'll send them, you can see
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[17:20:41]  <keithp> jbarnes: push 'em somewhere
 [17:20:47]  <keithp> then post that to the list
 [17:20:58]  <keithp> I'm speaking shortly, then on vacation until next wed
 [17:22:09]  <ajax^ did you have any opinion on the extra randr protocol stuff?
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[17:22:23]  <keithp> ajax: which extra randr protocol stuff?
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[17:22:58]  <keithp> hey ho, stukreit
[17:23:21]  <ajax> was re the 'gtk+ and randr' thread on xorg@ a while ago.  basically do a trim version of GetScreenResources that just returns current geometry rather than going and hunting for things derived for edid
 [17:23:31]  <ajax> s/for/from/
 [17:23:52]  <keithp^ kinda the xinerama data?
 [17:24:13]  <keithp> sounds like a plan
 [17:24:35]  <keithp> just return the current layout and not the whole set of possible layouts
 [17:24:58]  <ajax> right.  that way you get the output names and object XIDs too, so if you need to ask further questions you're already set.
 [17:25:37]  <ajax> kinda want to do that as randr 1.3 and defer other grand plans to later, since clearly they're not happening "soon"
 [17:26:17]  <keithp^ yes.
 [17:26:20]  <keithp> let's do that
 [17:26:27]  <stillunknown> What is actually preventing dual cards to work (minus xinerama multiplexer)?
 [17:26:33]  <keithp> and the projective transforms; that code is done and I've got customers shipping it
 [17:26:49]  <keithp> stillunknown: dual cards should work, just not in a single screen :-)
 [17:27:04]  <ajax> motion carries.  you land that bit and i'll do the other bit.
 [17:27:20]  <ajax> "what's preventing it from working (besides the absence of the thing that would make it work)"
 [17:27:22]  <keithp> I may have time at the airport this afternoon
 [17:27:23]  <ajax> you ask the best questions
 [17:27:50]  <ajax> keithp: throwing git repos at me is also an acceptable solution
 [17:28:02]  <keithp> ~keithp/xserver
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[17:28:20]  <keithp> hasn't been merged in a while, but I don't think it will conflict
 [17:28:31]  <stillunknown> ajax: I was under the impression it was even more broken than that.
 [17:28:42]  <airlied> in 1.4 is crashes out.. I fixed most of those..
 [17:28:49]  <keithp> ajax: friends from asus were mocking me about that yesterday actually
 [17:28:52]  <airlied> if you have one randr driver and enable xinerama..
 [17:29:07]  <keithp> ajax: transform-proposal
 [17:29:09]  <ajax> i work on rhel.  merge resolution is sort of a fact of life.
 [17:29:27]  <ajax> keithp: ack.  i'll see what i can do.  how long are you back on vacation for?
 [17:29:45]  <ajax> "until next wednesday".  i can read, i swear.
 [17:29:56]  <keithp^ wed/thu, depends on weather
 [17:30:39]  <keithp> I've got a recent merge; pushing now
 [17:30:45]  <ajax> ta
 [17:30:46]  <keithp> I've still got ten min  before my talk, after all
 [17:31:00]  <keithp> 10k objects over the IDF show network
 [17:31:13]  <keithp> I think this is the first tech conf I've been to in years with credible wireless
 [17:31:14]  <sxpert_^ how's idf going ?
 [17:31:38]  <keithp^ fairly good
 [17:32:15]  <sxpert_> I've read about the latest atom still using the 945 chipset :(
 [17:32:44]  <ajax> yay 2048 pixel pitch limit.
 [17:32:48]  <keithp^ pushed
 [17:32:48]  <keithp> sxpert_: 945 is lower power than 965
 [17:33:18]  <sxpert_^ I would have thought they'd have used the laptop chipset instead
 [17:33:37]  <ajax> 945gm exists.
 [17:34:00]  <sxpert_^ apparently not used on the mini itx format boards
 [17:35:04]  <anholt^ that *is* what's used on the mini-itx format boards.
 [17:35:12]  <anholt> other than the 915gm
 [17:35:14]  <anholt> and now the gm965
 [17:35:19]  <sxpert_^ ah.
 [17:35:58]  <stillunknown> They still need to make a power friendly chipset.
 [17:36:01]  <sxpert_> anholt, other issues I have with it is... the network chip being somehow too recent for any linux distro, and the soundchip heating up like hell
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[21:06:23]  <jcastro> daniels: ping
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[21:26:30]  <jcastro> mjg59: are you within strangling distance of daniels?
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[22:35:48]  <alanc> awesome - Xorg -configure with master/pciaccess created a 16-head config file since it picked up every PCI device id belonging to nvidia as an nvidia graphics card, and this system has an nvidia chipset, so many device ids
 [22:36:19]  <alanc>         Driver      "nv"
 [22:36:19]  <alanc>         VendorName  "nVidia Corporation"
 [22:36:19]  <alanc>         BoardName   "CK804 Serial ATA Controller"
 [22:36:19]  <alanc>         BusID       "PCI:0:7:0"
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[23:44:05]  <aaronp> alanc: Hah
 [23:44:16]  <aaronp> It used to be limited to VGA and 3D controllers.
 [23:44:25]  <aaronp> Did that code get lost in the transition to pciaccess?
 [23:44:57]  <alanc> might be something missing in the Solaris pciaccess code
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[01:56:56]  <DrNick> X should really run gcore on itself when it catches SIGSEGV
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[03:13:55]  <[AD]Turbo> yo all
 [03:19:27]  <tjaalton> so, I've got a joystick that evdev refuses to handle ("Don't know how to use device" in the log)
 [03:20:51]  <tjaalton> and I've understood that evdev _should_ be able to handle joystics just fine (this is a logitech rumblepad 2)
 [03:21:47]  <whot^ that means that the evdev device doesnt advertise buttons or keys
 [03:21:52]  <whot> run evtest on it
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[03:22:42]  <tjaalton> whot: that works
 [03:23:10]  <whot^ does evtest claim to find keys/buttons?
 [03:23:15]  <tjaalton> yep
 [03:24:09]  <whot> axes?
 [03:24:22]  <tjaalton> those too, let me pastebin the output
 [03:25:38]  <tjaalton> whot: http://pastebin.com/m694c9475
 [03:26:03]  <whot^ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-evdev/tree/src/evdev.c, line 1046
 [03:28:13]  <tjaalton^ yes?
 [03:28:45]  <whot^ we stop before BTN_JOYSTICK, so the device doesn have buttons
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[03:30:21]  <tjaalton> hum, ok
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[03:33:08]  <tjaalton> right, it does find axes but no buttons -> fail
 [03:33:40]  <whot^ correct. why dont you use the joystick driver?
 [03:34:05]  <tjaalton^ it doesn't have an fdi file (yet) :)
 [03:35:17]  <whot^ s/synaptics/joystick/ on the synaptics one gets you halfway there already :)
 [03:37:25]  <tjaalton^ heh, right. the problem is that it only lists input.mouse as a capability, so the fdi file would have to have entries for every device that needs the joystick driver
 [03:38:58]  <whot> tough
 [03:39:10]  <tjaalton> life is
 [03:40:17]  <tjaalton> btw, fedora doesn't seem to have drv-joystick at all?
 [03:40:34]  <whot> that could very well be. and I decline any responsibility :)
 [03:40:49]  <tjaalton> hehe :)
 [03:43:03]  <daniels> whot: 'what use is a handler if we only use one function anyway?' -- clearly you're new to xkb ;)
 [03:44:03]  <whot> tjaalton: but we ship valuable drivers such as e.g. citron, which has seen 1 (one) actual commit since 2003 (not counting compile fixes)
 [03:44:30]  <whot> daniels: so young and innocent I was. xkbcomp on an empty stomach was interesting
 [03:48:25]  <tjaalton^ :)
 [03:49:02]  <daniels> oh me, oh my
 [03:49:39]  <whot^ are you talking about your xkb rework at xds?
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[03:50:15]  <daniels> erm, not that i'm aware of
 [03:50:51]  <daniels> i'm afraid it might not fit in to such a congested schedule anyway: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Program
 [03:51:44]  <whot^ hehe. BoF talk then ;)
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[04:10:23]  <tjaalton> whot: joystick works for the rumblepad. nice to know that only a hal restart was needed in order for the new fdi file to work
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[05:01:52]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: ping
 [05:02:01]  <Dr_Jakob> hotels?
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[06:33:08]  <ebo> While building an application I got an error from Xft.h from the line "#include FT_FREETYPE_H"
 [06:33:52]  <ebo> The compiler bugged out since it was expecting something in the form "file" or <file> .
 [06:34:22]  <ebo> Is there a typical deffinition for FT_FREETYPE_H, or is this just a bug?
 [06:40:34]  <jcristau^ <ft2build.h> provides it
 [06:41:10]  <jcristau> and, Xft.h includes that, so..
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[06:48:00]  <ebo> that's odd... I can not find ft2build.h in the X11 include tree. 
[06:48:38]  <ebo> ahhh... never mind it is in /usr/include
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[07:06:46]  <ebo> jcristau: thanks, it turned to be a bug upstream in the Makefile hard coding the include path to some place in /usr/local.  Compileing now.
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[07:40:48]  <daniels> MrCooper: don't spose you feel like trying http://people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/dga-client-death.diff ?
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[08:02:54]  <daniels> haha.  awesome.  rac is literally unused right now.
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[08:03:14]  <daniels> all the pci enable/disable functions are #if 0'ed out, and both fbBus and sbusBus have null enable/disable functions.
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[08:08:32]  <daniels> commit 190f229ed77d87797e0f2f6762c86b3ad3a3dcbe
 [08:08:32]  <daniels> Author: Ian Romanick <idr@umwelt.(none)>
 [08:08:32]  <daniels> Date:   Tue Aug 8 16:47:32 2006 -0700
 [08:08:32]  <daniels>     Make xf86PciVideoInfo static since it is only used within this file.
 [08:08:32]  <daniels>    
[08:08:35]  <daniels>     Dummy out all of the PCI bus and device access control functions.  We
 [08:08:37]  <daniels>     need a better way to do this, and that will probably be in
 [08:08:40]  <daniels>     libpciaccess and / or the kernel.
 [08:08:42]  <daniels> heh.
 [08:09:27]  <Dr_Jakob^ about those XDS hotels?
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[08:14:01]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: ah, sorry.  not having any luck finding anything with more than about 4 rooms.  i can give you a couple of links to places which had a few rooms last i checked though.
 [08:21:52]  <Dr_Jakob^ okay, so it doesn't look like there will be any common hotel then
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[08:27:45]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: and it would be kind of you to send the list...
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[08:29:58]  <pedroerp> is there a way to configure Xorg to load some dynamic libs when it runs?
 [08:31:50]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: indeed, will try to do asap.  sorry, just ben utterly slammed at work.
 [08:31:55]  <daniels> pedroerp: LD_PRELOAD
 [08:32:29]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: and yeah, reason it's been so delayed is because i've been desperately trying to find a common hotel, but the ones that assured me they had full availability turned out to have about 7 rooms.
 [08:32:33]  <daniels> sigh.
 [08:33:29]  <jcristau^ LD_PRELOAD not so good with setuid stuff, though?
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[08:35:58]  <pedroerp> daniels: i just set the lib in this variable and runs Xorg normally?
 [08:37:16]  <daniels> yeesh, xf86GetClocks().
 [08:37:19]  <daniels> pedroerp: yes
 [08:37:22]  <daniels> jcristau: oh yeah
 [08:39:00]  <pedroerp^ i'm trying to do something like
 [08:39:23]  <pedroerp> LD_PRELOAD=/opt/master/lib/libmylib.so sudo Xorg
 [08:39:44]  <jcristau> not going to work like that
 [08:39:52]  <pedroerp> daniels: but it didn't work
 [08:40:12]  <pedroerp> jcristau: so how do i do this?
 [08:40:55]  <mjg59> Be root
 [08:42:41]  <sx|lappy> keithp: that'd be any good ? http://thinkitx.com/intel_dg45fc_box_(boxdg45fc)-838-1-c.html
 [08:43:16]  <pedroerp> mjg59: thanks man!
 [08:43:36]  <pedroerp> but why it didn't work with sudo?
 [08:43:42]  <daniels^ security.
 [08:44:56]  <jg> sx|lappy: optimist: keithp is in Portland; it's 5:44 AM his time.
 [08:45:08]  <sx|lappy> ah ;)
 [08:45:16]  <sx|lappy> well. he'll see when he wakes up ;)
 [08:45:41]  <daniels>   ErrorF("-flipPixels            swap default black/white Pixel values\n");
 [08:45:46]  <daniels> what the christ would posess someone to do that?
 [08:45:52]  <jcristau> pedroerp: sudo is setuid root. so if ld.so lets you override system libs with your own...
 [08:46:22]  <jg> daniels: left over from 1 bit per pixel system days.
 [08:48:54]  <pedroerp> jcristau: huum.. thanks man!
 [08:49:49]  <daniels> jg: sigh.
 [08:50:00]  <daniels> why is it a command-line option, though?
 [08:50:05]  <daniels> seems like a driver thing, if _anything_ at all.
 [08:50:14]  <jg^ that's a guess at best...
[08:50:41]  <jg> because some demented souls like white on black, maybe?
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[08:53:03]  <jg> daniels: lots of folks forget that in those days, color display cards and monitors were *really* expensive; b/w displays were the norm.  IIRC, a color monitor was $5K in 1988 dollars, not to mention the display card.
 [08:54:14]  <jg> so when X11 was born, 1 bpp was much more common than 8bpp, and very few had 24bpp displays indeed....
 [08:54:55]  <jg> I didn't have a 24bpp display until some years later, due to the cost of vram.
 [08:54:58]  <daniels> yeah, i'm aware
 [08:57:07]  <Dr_Jakob> in my days we had half a bit, if we where lucky!
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[08:58:48]  <jg> daniels: other amusing trivia: the X weave pattern was *really* good at exposing monitors with lousy video amplifiers.  We refused to change it to encourage monitor vendors (like Digital, who I worked for), to spend a buck or two extra to put in decent transistors....
 [09:02:20]  ***  rnoland__ has left chat #xorg-devel (Remote closed the connection).
[09:02:52]  <jg> daniels: I originally designed that weave because it works particularly well for xor'ed are....ubber banding
 [09:06:11]  <sx|lappy^ heh. that's a nice weave pattern.
 [09:06:20]  <Dr_Jakob> its also good at detecting crappy acceleration.
 [09:06:26]  <sx|lappy> jg: of course, it doesn't serve any purpose now that most monitors are LCDs ;)
 [09:06:40]  <sx|lappy> Dr_Jakob: hmm ?
 [09:07:02]  <jg^ you can still have lousy electronics, but I agree it has served its purpose....
 [09:07:40]  <Dr_Jakob+ on exa its pretty much faster to write the pattern directly to the screen via the CPU then do it via the GPU.
 [09:07:48]  <sx|lappy> ah
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[09:11:09]  <zuh> sx|lappy: I hear it's good for adjusting LCD and plasma pixelclock sync (in the case where it's not automatically adjusted to correct value)
 [09:11:43]  <sx|lappy^ good point, except most of those are connected via digital connections now
 [09:12:05]  <sx|lappy> well, still serves for the few that still use VGA
 [09:12:17]  <jcristau> i don't think 'few' covers it
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[10:37:54]  * benjsc moves pkg-config.freedesktop.org from gabe->annarchy, upgrades wiki.. stay tuned whilst dns expires
 [10:37:57]  * benjsc Sets www.fd.o wiki ro whilst upgrade begins...
 [10:39:01]  <keithp> sxpert_: it's supported
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[10:44:47]  <sx|lappy> keithp: ok. good
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[10:46:55]  <MrCooper> Dr_Jakob: sounds like you haven't tried EXA from current xserver master :)
 [10:47:14]  <sx|lappy> keithp: what would be a proper low power processor to put in there ?
 [10:47:57]  <sx|lappy> something like an E4xxx ?
 [10:48:18]  <MrCooper> daniels: that patch should help for clients that crash and leave the mouse frozen?
 [10:50:11]  <Dr_Jakob^ ah, it doesn't a request for each little square anymore?
 [10:50:28]  <MrCooper> nope
 [10:51:05]  <Dr_Jakob> cool
 [10:51:19]  <MrCooper> see commit a3afa6f2fb80489f7b6a88d12def09281d32ed94 and friends
 [10:51:43]  <Dr_Jakob> no need, I trust you :)
 [10:53:44]  <MrCooper> 17 driver copies instead of 81920 for 1280x1024 :)
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[10:54:57]  <Dr_Jakob> MrCooper: why not just err 1?
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[10:55:30]  <MrCooper> Dr_Jakob: you mean using Composite?
 [10:55:47]  <Dr_Jakob^ yeah.
 [10:56:34]  <MrCooper> feel free to implement that :)
 [10:56:43]  <Dr_Jakob> hehe :-p
 [10:57:07]  <MrCooper> not sure it's worth it though
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[11:07:26]  <sx|lappy> keithp: here's a pi(e) for you ;) http://pics.nase-bohren.de/apple_pi_pie.jpg
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[11:48:16]  * benjsc notes annarchy might be a little sluggish for the next few hours while the wiki conversion runs
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[12:15:58]  <daniels> MrCooper: dga> yeah, should fix that
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[13:03:25]  <MrCooper> daniels: doesn't seem to help unfortunately (tested with killall -9 sdljump)
 [13:04:57]  <MrCooper> note that keyboard input works fine, just the cursor is dead
 [13:05:14]  <daniels> arse.
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[13:42:10]  <benjsc> daniels: do you know of any cron jobs on kemper that repack things like xorg, just noticed how much git-upload pack is using on anarchy
 [13:42:31]  <jcristau> whot: someone with an evdev device in xorg.conf, using /dev/input/by-id/..., which breaks when they log out (device is closed and apparently not reopened). i guess my patch to close the fd broke it..
 [13:42:59]  <daniels> benjsc: not that i'm aware of; pretty sure i haven't manually repacked in months
 [13:43:20]  <benjsc> I'll add it to the todo list :)
 [13:43:47]  <ajaxx> i thought i had scripted that a while ago
 [13:44:14]  <ajaxx> albeit only for kemper
 [13:45:38]  <daniels^ it's not in cron, at least
 [13:46:05]  <daniels> root@kemper:~% ls ~ajaxR/cron
 [13:46:05]  <daniels> repack-git
 [13:46:05]  <daniels> root@kemper:~% crontab -u ajaxR -l
 [13:46:05]  <daniels> no crontab for ajaxR
 [13:46:05]  <daniels> zsh: exit 1     crontab -u ajaxR -l
 [13:46:06]  <benjsc> a repack of most the repos seems to have made a major difference
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[13:47:24]  <ajaxx> well i certainly intended to.
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[14:02:12]  <jcristau> whot: maybe the open() could be moved from preinit to init in the driver?
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[14:39:08]  <cjb> hm, gitweb is broke
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[16:18:18]  <cjb> Anyone able to fix http://git.f.o?  It's giving 403 Forbidden - No project found for all projects.
 [16:21:34]  <dagb^ I much prefer gitweb.fdo myself. But for now, cgit may do what you need?
 [16:22:11]  <cjb^ it works for me, but not for tinderbox :)
 [16:23:31]  <dagb> ah. good. I ws afraid The Powers considered removing gitweb. I guess they will not, then.
 [16:24:47]  <cjb> They did, I think cgit not yet having support for getting a named file in raw with a url was part of what prompted reverting it.
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[16:25:52]  <dagb> Uh.. Because cgit is missing something or other, they removed gitweb?
 [16:26:05]  <dagb> cgit doesn't show the drivers, it looks like.
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[16:26:24]  <cjb> No, I don't think turning off gitweb was intentional.
 [16:26:35]  <cjb> I mean, it was the first time, then we realized cgit was deficient.
 [16:26:40]  <dagb> ah. thanks.
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[16:27:28]  <dagb> I could be happy with cgit. If it offered a "sort by age", as gitweb does.
 [16:28:38]  <nha> ... and an rss feed
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[16:34:47]  <jcristau> cjb: load on annarchy is around 70 right now, maybe gitweb doesn't like that?
 [16:35:24]  <cjb> it's possible :) it returns a 403 immediately, though.
 [16:35:29]  <jcristau> yeah
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[19:03:51]  <anholt> whot: fwiw, I disagree with 3a94b25538c647df965a93cd7734b841257ef203 -- you've introduced a race between the reporting of damage and when the damage actually occurs.
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[19:05:56]  <anholt> and isn't the direct rendering by the client just spamming over the cursor anyway?
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[20:29:22]  <jbarnes> benjsc: ping
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[21:47:53]  <whot> anholt: I know, airlied mentioned that ages ago. I didn't expect it to be pushed
 [21:48:02]  <whot> see http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16384
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[21:52:21]  <whot> jcristau: ok, I'll look at it tomorrow or monday
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----- [2008-08-23] -----
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[00:52:17]  <DrNick> any crashes in __glXDeassociateContext fixed recently?
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[01:03:43]  <DrNick> two entries in bugzilla, but I get a lovely 500 Internal Server Error trying to add my two cents
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[10:25:51]  * benjsc : www.freedesktop.org wiki converted, things should now be returning back to normal, sorry for any issues
 [10:26:33]  * benjsc : In the end, we sacrified the page hit count as the conversion was just too resource intensive
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[16:28:18]  <stillunknown> Would it be hard to accelerate the Polygon part of xrender? (in imprecise mode)
 [16:31:46]  <erikg> a month or so back i wrote a hack using xtest and xwarp which switched a touchpad into 'scroll' mode whenever a certain button was prossed
 [16:32:14]  <erikg> i was wondering how i might integrate this work into X so it didn't remain in the realm of a specific window manager
 [16:33:01]  <erikg> jg mentioned x accessibility, but i haven't encountered much on the subject
 [16:33:34]  <erikg> any advice would be helpful
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[04:47:16]  <papillon81> any synaptics devs around?
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[08:14:49]  <stillunknown> cworth: ping
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[18:06:12]  <marcheu> tilman:
[18:06:16]  <marcheu> oops
 [18:06:33]  <marcheu> tilman: do you know of overlay breakages on mga ?
 [18:08:05]  <marcheu> or more generally, xv breakages (but I guess it uses the overlay)
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[18:19:08]  <rnoland_> anyone around that works on the intel ddx driver?
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[18:31:05]  <drago01> whot: ping
 [18:31:23]  <drago01> wrong channel
 [18:33:58]  <rnoland_> where does the modeset ioctl and irq install/uninstall get called from?
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[18:38:30]  <marcheu> doesn't grep answer that question or did I miss something ?
 [18:40:43]  <rnoland_> it's not answering as readily as i'd like....
 [18:40:48]  <stillunknown> Can anyone tell me why the special case in exaTrapezoids() ignores the source altogether?
 [18:41:10]  <marcheu> rnoland_: irq is certainly not in the ddx, it's in the drm
 [18:41:49]  <marcheu> traditionally, irqs are setup on init/lastclose
 [18:41:58]  <marcheu> not sure about intel, but I don't see why it would differ
 [18:42:18]  <rnoland_> yeah.... i'm good now....
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[18:42:52]  <rnoland_> thanks..
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[18:48:25]  <rnoland_> marcheu: ok, that is what i thought... the drm uninstall irq based on ioctl from driver...
 [18:49:03]  <rnoland_> i need to change the order of modeset_ctl and irq_install
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[03:07:52]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[04:37:33]  <whot> jcristau: ping
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[05:56:39]  <jcristau> whot: pong
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[08:01:05]  <daniels> evtouch is despair.
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[08:03:14]  <daniels> 'Calibration is currently untestet, broken and needs to be fixed --
 [08:03:20]  <daniels> sorry. I'll fix it if I have time..'
 [08:04:11]  <daniels> why is it that everything to do with touchscreens has to be rubbish?
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[08:08:25]  <drago01> because very few people actually have touchscreens ? ;)
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[08:13:51]  <daniels> erm
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[08:45:19]  <dagb> drago01: n800/n810 ...
 [08:45:27]  <dagb> and the 770
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[09:24:22]  <daniels> dagb: yeah, well ...
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[12:01:21]  <CosmicPenguin> Could somebody 'splain to my dumb self what the EXA_OFFSCREEN_PIXMAPS is, and why stuff magically started working when I stopped setting it?
 [12:01:35]  <CosmicPenguin> erm - what the EXA_OFFSCREENS_PIXMAPS flag
 [12:01:37]  <CosmicPenguin> is
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[12:09:00]  <MrCooper> CosmicPenguin: if that flag isn't set, little if anything is getting accelerated
 [12:10:26]  <CosmicPenguin> okay, so I'm playing around with the pygtk demos - they have a XPM picture of a trash can
 [12:10:49]  <CosmicPenguin> I see the same number of uploads / copies in my driver with the flag on and the flag off
 [12:11:04]  <CosmicPenguin> but when the flag is on, the colors are completely off the wall, when the flag is off, all is well
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[13:46:43]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: ping
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[14:12:46]  <tilman> marcheu: nope
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[14:44:14]  <stillunk1own> cworth: ping
 [14:46:37]  <cworth^ pong
 [14:47:55]  <stillunk1own^ I have a question or two about the trapezoid part of xrender.
 [14:49:38]  <stillunk1own> The trapezoid functions are all about making a mask is opaque in some places?
 [14:52:26]  <cworth^ The trapezoid calls are primitives for drawing arbitary geometry.
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[14:52:50]  <cworth> stillunk1own: But it can be understood as creating an implicit mask and then using it in the standard compositing operation.
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[14:54:42]  <stillunk1own> cworth: Just to be sure, 255 represents opaque and 0 represents transparant in X?
 [14:56:12]  <cworth^ For 8-bit alpha, yes.
 [14:58:19]  <sxpert> grrr... debian has broken keyboard input. number pad gives the arrows with numlock on or off :(
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[14:58:34]  <sxpert> works on the text console :(
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[15:01:13]  <ajax> agd5f: so, this maxPitchBytes limit in r500 exa.
 [15:01:16]  <ajax> it makes me sad
 [15:05:51]  <agd5f^ I'm sorry
 [15:06:37]  <stillunk1own> For r300 it's not that strange.
 [15:07:25]  <ajax> agd5f: how mad would it be to try switching to the Composite path for excessively wide images?
 [15:07:57]  <ajax> background: two 30" monitors -> 20480 bytes wide -> fallbacks and sadness
 [15:08:12]  <marcheu^ aren't you working on precisely that ? :)
 [15:09:25]  <ajax> well i'm kind of working on something tangentially related
 [15:09:30]  <ajax> except i haven't touched shatter in like three months
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[15:12:00]  <agd5f> ajax: go for it.  the texture pitch should allow greater values IIRC
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[15:21:20]  <ajax> mmmm.  txpitch looks like you can get up to 16kpixels, but i only see 4k worth for txwidth
 [15:21:30]  <ajax> which would help a little?  but not that much.
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[15:38:17]  <stillunk1own> ajax: At least you have motivation now to finish shatter :-)
 [15:38:50]  <ajax> motivation, my friend, is not what i am in need of.
 [15:40:10]  <MrCooper> ack stillunk1own
 [15:40:27]  <jcristau> maybe you need one more month of lockdown at fedora so you have more time to work on x upstream :)
 [15:46:25]  <stillunk1own> MrCooper: i wanted to ask why some pixmaps are damaged before rendering (in exa), but i realised it was for a migration optimisation.
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[17:42:56]  <stillunk1own> Is there any reason why applications try to rerender everything upon every ConfigureNotify when resizing a window?
 [17:45:29]  <daniels> ... what's the alternative?
 [17:46:23]  <ajax> if you have a reflow engine that doesn't end up just repainting the world on reconfigure, and does so faster than just repainting everything, i'm sure the toolkits would love to know about it.
 [17:47:38]  <stillunk1own> I mean, i resize the window, which causes let's say a 100 ConfigureNotify events, is there really no way to see that these are all about resizing and it should skip ahead?
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[19:33:01]  <whot> stillunk1own: XCheckTypedEvent
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[19:48:49]  <stillunk1own> whot: A shame that it removes the event.
 [19:49:07]  <whot^ XPutBackEvent should help there
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[19:50:09]  <stillunk1own> whot: It'll still end up in another place in the queue.
 [19:52:43]  <daniels> it's almost like apps and toolkits need to manage their events sensibly or something.
 [19:52:59]  <whot> hehe
 [19:53:33]  <daniels> just walk the whole event queue, set up whichever events you need to process and flag them as pending, coalescing as necessary, then fire them all when you hit the end of the queue.  i don't really see the problem, modulo xlib which is broken by design.  xcb ftw.
 [20:00:32]  <marcheu> yeah that's pretty easy to do even with bare xlib, I did that for a window manager and it was flying
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[20:02:38]  <daniels> XDoWhatIMean(dpy);
 [20:05:41]  <marcheu> well I sometimes wonder why toolkits don't seem to do much refresh throttling (seeing that most reasonable window manager do), but well...
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[22:48:08]  <whot> question: resume from suspend, open() called on device, succeeds. next read fails with ENODEV. what am I missing here?
 [22:50:44]  <ajax> three pounds of flax?
 [22:51:56]  <airlied> themite charges..
 [22:52:00]  <airlied> damn I fail
 [22:53:47]  <ajax> whot: this is evdev, i assume?
 [22:54:17]  <whot^ yep
 [22:55:25]  <ajax>         if (!evdev->exist)
 [22:55:39]  <ajax> pretty sure that's a bad sign right there
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[22:58:30]  <whot> yeah, looked at that. but why does the open succeed then.
 [23:00:42]  <ajax> if i had to guess, because the open assumes the old (pre-suspend) topology is valid, and either the read invalidates the old topology as a side effect, or the disconnect notification races in between your open and read calls.
 [23:01:39]  <whot> hmm
 [23:04:30]  <ajax> doesn't look like there's anything inspecting the device itself in evdev_read before the -ENODEV, so i'm sticking with that 'race' idea
 [23:05:00]  <CP|home> this sounds familiar
 [23:08:13]  <CP|home> no - I guess not - a long time ago I saw the OLPC crash and burn after many suspends/resumes - but I think then there was a nasty global index that got ++ed every open()
 [23:08:30]  <CP|home> That doesn't seem to be there any more
 [23:09:51]  <whot^ the problem we have is that evdev devices are dead after resume, and only come back if you VT switch. the latter is hard if your keyboard is dead though.
 [23:10:18]  <CP|home> that would be hard
 [23:10:20]  <ajax> shouldn't we hear plug events for the new kbd?
 [23:11:04]  <whot^ sure, if everything is through hal we're fine. (with the possible exception of 459903)
 [23:11:08]  <ajax> i mean.  we open an evdev node that's about to go stale.  then it does.  the assumption is that the bus renumbered from under us, and a new device is forthcoming.
 [23:11:28]  <whot^ this is for xorg.conf devices only
 [23:11:45]  <ajax> nurr.
 [23:12:11]  <ajax> "Additional info: Life is beautiful!"
 [23:12:21]  <ajax> that's the sort of upbeat bug report you don't often get
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[23:13:38]  <ajax> um.  i guess you can't just immediately read after open until you win an event.  that's a bit iffy.
 [23:14:28]  <ajax> although if it's O_NONBLOCK, maybe.
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[23:15:26]  <ajax> i suppose there's nothing like udevsettle for hal either
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[23:22:39]  <ajax> actually, the O_NONBLOCK thing looks like it might even work
 [23:23:26]  <[R]> is -novtswithc broken or do i think it shoudlo do something it doesnt? when i run X -novtswitch... it switches to the new vt... i don't want it to... but when X quits it stays on the VT instead of switching back to where it was... am i using this option wrong?
 [23:23:32]  <[R]> -novtswitch*
 [23:26:23]  <ajax> [R]: that option isn't great.  the easiest way to suppress the initial switch is to just tell the server to run on the vt it's already on
 [23:26:37]  <ajax> 'X vt1' if you're on tty1, etc.
 [23:26:38]  <[R]> mmm
 [23:26:50]  <whot> mutt
 [23:27:02]  <[R]> the thing is i'm using the fbconsole decorations with a splash and i want th server to be fully loaded before i switch to it's VT
 [23:27:19]  <ajax> life doesn't work that way, sorry.
 [23:27:23]  <[R]> :(
 [23:27:28]  <[R]> is there a technical reason?
 [23:27:45]  <ajax> the server can't know if it can "fully load" until it owns the vt, because that's the mechanism of exclusion to know that it has the hardware
 [23:28:40]  <[R]> mmm
 [23:28:48]  <[R]> are you quoting it because i said that?
 [23:29:00]  <ajax> only kinda.
 [23:29:34]  <[R]> i wish it were possible, oh well
 [23:29:45]  <[R]> maybe once this kernel modesetting stuff is settled it won't be so bad
 [23:30:00]  <ajax> if you're using a 1.5 RC, server startup should be fast enough to not notice
 [23:30:31]  <ajax> if it's not, do let me know, i've been trying to get us down to being (perceptually) instant
 [23:30:31]  <[R]> it flashes a little
 [23:30:43]  <ajax> yeah, that part sucks.
 [23:31:10]  <[R]> its justrunning one program, and i wante to be able tos witc to the vt once the program was loaded
 [23:31:14]  <[R]> oh well
 [23:31:32]  <ajax> whot: so, this is for xorg.conf devices.  what's the success mode here?  should the driver retry until it doesn't get -ENODEV?
 [23:31:43]  <ajax> or what.
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[23:32:30]  <ajax> because if it should retry, then i think we can do that, with the small caveat of needing to post an event from DEVICE_INIT.  pretty sure that's legal?
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[23:51:53]  <whot> ajax: posting an event from DEVICE_INIT is nasty. requires changes in the server to not segfault.
 [23:55:31]  <ajax> blah.
 [23:55:41]  <whot^ well, depends on the type of event of course.
 [23:55:59]  <ajax> could do QueueWorkProc maybe?
 [23:56:27]  <whot^ maybe, don't know that area well enough.
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[23:57:40]  <whot> one sec, trying something
 [23:59:38]  <ajax> ProcessWorkQueue gets called right at the top of the main loop, before BlockHandler.  driver could register a one-shot that would post the read event then.
 ----- [2008-08-26] -----
 [00:17:23]  <whot^ yep. that works
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[01:32:02]  <whot> ajax, jcristau: http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/evdev/0001-Attempt-to-re-open-devices-on-read-errors.patch
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[03:09:48]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:41:27]  <tjaalton> any way to increase the amount of offscreen pixmap memory the (stable) intel driver will use?
 [06:41:33]  <tjaalton> with EXA
 [06:42:20]  <tjaalton> mine only uses 12MB which seems like too little
 [06:46:57]  <airlied^ I think setting VideoRAM might help
 [06:47:12]  <tjaalton^ ok, I'll try that
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[06:48:26]  <airlied> hmm..
 [06:48:34]  <airlied> it looks fixed
 [06:48:45]  <airlied> painful.
 [06:51:32]  <tjaalton> well, it does use the default which is 262144kB, but EXA uses less
 [06:51:57]  <airlied> yes EXA is fixed to 3xfront buffer
 [06:52:06]  <tjaalton> ah...
 [06:53:36]  <tjaalton> 2.4.2 still moves the mouse cursor every time you run xrandr -q (or start a gtk app).. I wonder if it's even reported on b.fd.o :)
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[07:11:01]  <whot> http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/patches/evdev/0001-Attempt-to-re-open-devices-on-read-errors.patch
 [07:11:05]  <whot> if anyone feels like it
 [07:11:14]  <whot> (updated versino)
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[07:12:10]  <tjaalton> whot: I noticed this morning that my mouse didn't work after suspend (but after re-plugging the receiver it did). this is to fix such cases?
 [07:12:18]  <whot> yes
 [07:12:27]  <tjaalton> cool
 [07:14:13]  <airlied> might we not get a different device ordering on resume?
 [07:16:21]  <whot^ we may. the thing really only works when you use by-id/
 [07:16:29]  <airlied> ah cool.
 [07:16:41]  <whot^ which is arguably an improvement over never working at all
 [07:18:01]  <airlied^ how many ppl use by-id :-)
 [07:18:54]  <whot^ well, we only need this if you specify a device in the xorg.conf (hotplugged devices aren'd affected). and if you specify a device in xorg.conf with /dev/input/eventX you've already lost anyway
 [07:19:26]  <daniels> yeesh
 [07:24:45]  <tjaalton> whot: oh, mine was with hotplug
 [07:25:22]  <whot^ argh.
 [07:26:35]  <tjaalton> it doesn't happen every time though. might have been something else, since I had to reboot it anyway (broken nvidia video)
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[07:57:29]  <daniels> whot: i'd say cache every tiny bit of information the ioctls give you, and only readd if they match exactly
 [07:58:38]  <whot^ ack
 [08:01:07]  <jcristau^ re: debian bug 496548, this is with kbd, not evdev
 [08:01:29]  <jcristau> (the 'xmodmap in Xsetup doesn't work' bug)
 [08:08:29]  <daniels^ getting an empty modmap is a symptom of running without xkb
 [08:10:43]  <jcristau^ oh, hum.
 [08:11:07]  <jcristau> looking at his log in 496543, it says '(EE) XKB: Couldn't open rules file /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base'
 [08:11:26]  <daniels> hmm, but that should still get the default map.
 [08:12:28]  <daniels> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/dix/devices.c?h=server-1.4-branch -- CoreKeyboardProc()
 [08:31:40]  <whot> jcristau: ah, ic. didn't see that from the files.
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[08:36:01]  <jcristau> whot: yeah sorry about that. he filed two bugs at pretty much the same time, only one had config/logs..
 [08:40:13]  <whot^ yeah, the xkb should be it then. if it fails, the modmap is still bzero'
 [08:40:17]  <whot> d
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[08:41:45]  <jcristau> i'll tell him to install xkb-data then
 [08:42:26]  <daniels> whot: eh? you only bzero the modmap if you've set noXkbExtension, or ifndef XKB.
 [08:44:05]  * jcristau is confused
 [08:45:37]  <whot> daniels: CoreKbdProc bzeros it, passes it to XkbInitKDevStr. if xkb fails there (which is where the error comes from), then we memmove the bzero'd array into the devices' modmap (InitKeyClassdeviceStruct)
 [08:48:56]  <daniels^ sure, but in XkbFinishInit (i think), you later stomp the device's modmap with the one from the default XKB map.
 [08:49:43]  <whot> sapperlot
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[08:50:34]  <daniels> whot: erm
 [08:54:27]  <whot^ XkbInitDevice, actually.
 [08:54:34]  <daniels> ta
 [08:55:05]  <whot> anyway. that's it for me for today.
 [08:55:14]  <daniels> yeah, i need to get back to work
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[08:57:17]  <whot> daniels: still, I can't actually find the place where it's initalising it if the xkb load failed.
 [09:00:39]  <daniels> oh, cock.  i think you're right here, looking at it.
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[09:47:17]  <RealSystem> hi people
 [09:47:24]  <RealSystem> can you help me?
 [09:48:15]  <daniels> if you ask a specific question, sure ...
 [09:48:18]  <RealSystem> i tried to start Xorg -configure but I see Using config file: "//xorg.conf.new"
 [09:48:21]  <RealSystem> what is it?
 [09:48:38]  <RealSystem> what am i doing incorrect?
 [09:48:44]  <daniels> did you compile the server yourslef?
 [09:48:50]  <RealSystem> no
 [09:48:53]  <daniels> okay
 [09:49:00]  <daniels> you don't have a file called /xorg.conf.new?
 [09:49:16]  <RealSystem> yes
 [09:49:27]  <RealSystem> the path "//" is incorrect
 [09:49:46]  <daniels> // is just /
 [09:50:02]  <daniels> but it will look in / for a config file, in old versions
 [09:50:13]  <RealSystem> but in root dir config file doesn't found
 [09:51:15]  <RealSystem> how to retransfer output for config data?
 [09:51:26]  <RealSystem> some options?
 [09:51:31]  <RealSystem> or nothing?
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[10:07:21]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: why do some functions (exaShmPutImage for example) call DamageDamageRegion() and others (exaTrapezoids) not?
 [10:26:11]  <MrCooper^ because ShmPutImage isn't wrapped by the damage layer
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[10:27:03]  <jcristau> why does it feel like this discussion already happened last week?
 [10:27:09]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: and where is trapezoids wrapped then?
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[10:29:31]  <ajax> jcristau: because it did!
 [10:29:45]  <ajax> i have a patch for that that i think i'm happy with
 [10:29:55]  <ajax> want to test it in Xephyr though
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[10:32:22]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: sorry, I don't have time to dig into this right now
 [10:34:01]  <stillunknown^ I suppose the right way to fix this would be to wrap them?
 [10:35:12]  <jcristau^ which is what ajax's patch does, aiui
 [10:35:25]  <stillunknown> ajax' patch was for the shm functions
 [10:35:50]  <stillunknown> I'm referring to Trapezoid, Triangle (and maybe more).
 [10:36:34]  <stillunknown> Trapezoid and Triangle are already wrappable, they're just being wrapped by damage
 [10:36:41]  <stillunknown> *not being wrapped
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[10:37:17]  <stillunknown> @jcristau
 [10:37:27]  <jcristau^ i see
 [10:37:36]  <jcristau> sorry for the confusion :)
 [10:37:54]  <stillunknown> No problem, i'm just doing some exa code cleanup.
 [10:38:02]  <stillunknown> And this confused me a bit.
 [10:40:20]  <ajax> they don't need to be
 [10:40:29]  <ajax> they call down to the Composite hook
 [10:40:39]  <ajax> (or at least, all known implementations do that)
 [10:40:56]  <stillunknown> exa doesn't always fit the bill
 [10:41:09]  <stillunknown> It has an optimized case that avoids Composite.
 [10:41:18]  <stillunknown> But i suppose that is exa' fault.
 [10:41:44]  <stillunknown> I'll fix that too while i'm at it.
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[12:33:12]  <jcristau> daniels: any chance you could have a look at debian bug#470901?
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[12:47:36]  <daniels> jcristau: libhal needs to expose async calls
 [12:50:06]  <ajax> jbarnes: should i be targetting 2.4.x or 2.5.x for f10?
 [12:50:48]  <jbarnes^ you wanna do mode setting stuff for f10 right?
 [12:51:00]  <jbarnes> if so, 2.5.x would probably be best, though it depends on git libdrm
 [12:51:19]  <jbarnes> it also has gem bits so dri2 will be possible etc
 [12:51:53]  <ajax> would be lovely to have intel kms in f10, yes.
 [12:51:57]  <jcristau> daniels: ok, i'll block that one against a libhal bug. thanks.
 [12:52:44]  <jbarnes> ajax: would be cool if you could find someone in rh to return our osv survey too, I don't remember seeing yours come back yet?
 [12:52:59]  <ajax> yeah, it's in the pile somewhere
 [12:53:11]  <ajax> i suppose i can do that today
 [12:53:12]  <jbarnes> we aim to please :)
 [12:53:25]  <krh^ I'm planning to pull in 2.5 this week
 [12:53:30]  <jbarnes^ cool
 [12:53:38]  <daniels> jcristau: ta
 [12:53:51]  <krh> jbarnes: and I just tracked down the dri2 bug I was chasing for over a week :)
 [12:54:17]  <krh> turns out the depth buffer stride needs to be a multiple of 64 bytes
 [12:54:34]  <jbarnes> doh
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[12:55:10]  <ajax> wow.  oowriter 3 doesn't take ages to start up.
 [12:55:14]  <ajax> progress!
 [12:55:30]  <CosmicPenguin> good - now it can crash and take your documents to hell quicker
 [12:55:53]  <jbarnes> ajax: ugg, you got a .doc version?
 [12:55:54]  <jbarnes> sigh
 [12:56:04]  <ajax> yep
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[14:15:29]  <ajax> jbarnes: right, osv survey sent around for internal comment, should be back to you guys in a day or so
 [14:15:39]  <jbarnes> cool thanks
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[14:39:04]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: DamageDamageRegion() is an exported function unfortunately, and i'm not sure how people would respond if it's beheaviour would implicitly change
 [14:42:24]  <stillunknown> a PreOp and PostOp is an option.
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[14:48:09]  <stillunknown> (reboot)
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[15:02:38]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: DamageDamageRegion() calling damageReportPostOp() makes little sense really, EXA currently has to work around it with contortions like ExaDamageReport()
 [15:06:21]  <stillunknown^ what does ExaDamageReport work around?
 [15:06:55]  <MrCooper> that DamageDamageRegion() as it stands confuses the EXA migration logic
 [15:07:35]  <stillunknown> So you would replace ExaDamagaRegion with damageDamageRegion?
 [15:08:21]  <MrCooper> what's ExaDamageRegion?
 [15:08:31]  <stillunknown> i meant Report
 [15:08:36]  <stillunknown> sorry
 [15:08:58]  <MrCooper> no, that could just go away again
 [15:11:35]  <stillunknown^ What's stopped you from making the change?
 [15:12:54]  <MrCooper> the lack of time since I thought of it
 [15:15:33]  <stillunknown^ i'll make a patch and let you have a look at it
 [15:20:22]  <MrCooper> actually, I'm afraid ExaDamageReport will have to remain, or pending damage that never went into a rendering operaiton will still get spuriously reported as damage
 [15:22:03]  <stillunknown^ But the other changes still stand?
 [15:22:20]  <MrCooper> yes
 [15:23:00]  <stillunknown> And where precisely should postop not be be called?
 [15:23:17]  <stillunknown> because a search and replace won't actually change anything
 [15:27:11]  <stillunknown> @MrCooper
 [15:28:06]  <MrCooper^ it should only be called after an actual rendering operation following DamageDamageRegion()
 [15:28:28]  <MrCooper> I'm not sure there's any case matching that description outside miext/damage and exa
 [15:28:44]  <MrCooper> hmm, glx/glxdri(2).c I guess
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[16:01:26]  <ESphynx> hi guys
 [16:01:29]  <ESphynx> keithp: you around? :)
 [16:01:53]  <ESphynx> I'm getting this weird draw bug with nVidia drivers: www.ecere.com/test.jpg
 [16:01:56]  <ESphynx> And i'm wondering who's to blame
 [16:02:16]  <ESphynx> the thing is, you move around in the menus and stuff, and sometimes the fonts draw properly, sometimes they draw like this...
 [16:07:17]  <ESphynx> i'm drawing these with XRenderComposite ...PictOpOver, with a src bitmap 1x1 and RepeatNormal for the source, and the actual glyph is the mask with only component_alpha
 [16:08:39]  <jg> keithp: where can I find the latest xscope or friend>?
 [16:08:40]  <stillunknown> try doing rendercheck -t cacomposite -f a8r8g8b8,a8
 [16:09:37]  <wereHamster> ESphynx: the closed-source nvidia driver?
 [16:09:49]  <ESphynx^ yes
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[16:11:01]  <ESphynx> sorry where did my XChat go
 [16:11:25]  <wereHamster^ the closed-source drivers are not supported by the community. Go ask in #nvidia
 [16:12:03]  <ajax> a more useful answer might have been: does it do the same thing with the nv driver?
 [16:12:31]  <ESphynx^ thanks ;) it didn't with vesa, but I will try with nv
 [16:12:47]  <ESphynx> the thing is, it's a rather bad bug which no other apps seem to show
 [16:13:19]  <ESphynx> So I might be to blame, or at least I should try to find a work around since a large number of people run the nvidia drivers :P for example a fresh default install of Sabayon had this problem
 [16:13:27]  <wereHamster> is that an application running under wine? Or why does it look windows-like?
 [16:13:40]  <ESphynx> i'm running renderTest right now
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[16:13:52]  <ESphynx> it's not an application running under wine, it's me drawing windows like gradients
 [16:14:26]  <wereHamster> looks good :)
 [16:14:56]  <ESphynx> oh it's giving error
 [16:15:01]  <ESphynx> renderTest that is
 [16:15:27]  <ESphynx> 455560 tests passed of 456000 total
 [16:15:58]  <stillunknown> what test?
 [16:16:17]  <ESphynx> rendercheck -t cacomposite -f a8r8g8b8,a8
 [16:16:33]  <stillunknown> The errors indicate the operation.
 [16:16:44]  <ESphynx> yeah but as you can see 440 of them failed
 [16:17:27]  <stillunknown> That's like saying there is a problem somewhere on this planet.
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[16:18:11]  <ESphynx> www.ecere.com/errors.txt
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[16:19:06]  <ESphynx> would you guys be able to tell me with this which particular situation is faulty , maybe I should work around it ?
 [16:19:18]  <stillunknown> You should report this to whomever makes your driver.
 [16:19:36]  <ESphynx> i'm reporting it in #nvidia :P
 [16:20:22]  <ESphynx> i'm also wondering if it's bad or mismatched libraries?
 [16:20:50]  <stillunknown> CA operations are not that common
 [16:20:55]  <stillunknown> but they're not all failing
 [16:20:56]  <ESphynx> So what are CA operations?
 [16:21:02]  <stillunknown> component alpha
 [16:21:06]  <ESphynx> ah
 [16:22:03]  <alanc> "I'm planning on releasing Mesa 7.1 in the next hour or two"
 [16:22:29]  <ESphynx> i've been planning to release my software for over a month :S
 [16:22:43]  <fredrikh> stillunknown: they are common if you consider text common :)
 [16:22:55]  <ESphynx> yeah thats the thing
 [16:23:02]  <ESphynx> i draw text with 'em :P
 [16:23:12]  <alanc> we've been planning on releasing Xorg 1.5 for many months, just as soon as Mesa 7.1 was out 8-)
 [16:25:03]  <ESphynx> oh , nice
 [16:25:13]  <ajax> crap, i've got some work to do then
 [16:25:23]  <ESphynx> I don't really understand the role that Mesa plays to be honest with hardware acceleration?
 [16:25:45]  <ESphynx> is it used at all by the NVidia drivers?
 [16:25:48]  <ajax> no.
 [16:26:04]  <ESphynx> Should it be used by a free driver implementation ?
 [16:26:10]  <ajax> should be, and is.
 [16:26:53]  <ESphynx> Well guys i've enlightened part of my problem
 [16:27:02]  <ESphynx> instead of using a 1x1 bitmap with Repeat, I'm using a 100x100
 [16:27:19]  <ESphynx> and the problem seems to go away (assuming glyphs aren't bigger than that)
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[16:28:02]  <ESphynx> the issue is that my "SetForeground" method does a XRenderFillRectangle to fill that rectangle and this makes things much slower
 [16:28:46]  <stillunknown> that's hackish
 [16:29:20]  <ESphynx> I had XRenderCreateSolidFill
 [16:29:26]  <ESphynx> but that's commented out, must have been broken :P
 [16:30:02]  <ajax> it's mostly just slower
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[16:30:20]  <ajax> CreateSolidFill creates what's called a "source-only" picture
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[16:30:32]  <ajax> which exa doesn't accelerate and i'm pretty sure nvidia doesn't handle specially either
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[16:30:56]  <ajax> embarassingly it's usually faster to just make a 1x1 pixel containing the color you want
 [16:30:59]  <ESphynx> Well i'd much rather use XRenderCreateSolidFill but it wasn't workign
 [16:31:05]  <ESphynx> ajax: that's the thing
 [16:31:25]  <ESphynx> except that's what's breakign right now... but the funny thing is it works SOMETIMES
 [16:33:13]  <ESphynx> the overall performance is also a lot slower than what i'm used to :S
 [16:33:35]  <ESphynx> But I do want to run 3D application
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[22:36:30]  <Ori_B> daniels: ping
 [22:41:02]  <daniels> pong
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[01:10:34]  <aaronp_> ajax: Recent nvidia drivers handle solid source pictures.
 [01:12:16]  <aaronp_> I guess I should probably release a new nv driver, if 7.4 is imminent.
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[03:15:16]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:58:29]  <JohnFlux2> Hey all
 [05:59:14]  <JohnFlux2> kdrive Xfbdev fails with the rendercheck program
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[09:30:40]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I'm playing about with kdrive and rendercheck, trying to iron out any bugs in kdrive
 [09:31:26]  <JohnFlux> daniels:are you interested?  :) 
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[09:33:55]  <daniels> JohnFlux: sure, what's up?
 [09:37:29]  <JohnFlux^ I'm running 'rendercheck' - do you know it?  Kdrive fails one of the tests
 [09:37:34]  <JohnFlux> Xfbdev
 [09:38:40]  <JohnFlux> one of the:  "mask coords test error of 64.0000 at (1, 0) "
 [09:38:49]  <JohnFlux> Part of "Beginning transformed mask coords test 2 "
 [09:45:53]  <JohnFlux> hmm, kaa was recently deleted by Adam Jackson ?
 [09:45:53]  <JohnFlux> last month
 [09:45:53]  <JohnFlux> why? :)
 [09:45:53]  <JohnFlux> ajax: ping ? :)
 [09:45:53]  <daniels^ kaa was deleted because you should just use exa
 [09:45:53]  <JohnFlux> in kdrive?
 [09:45:53]  <daniels> yeah
 [09:45:53]  <JohnFlux> kdrive supports exa?  from when?
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[09:45:53]  <daniels> erm, exa is ddx-agnostic
 [09:46:34]  <JohnFlux^ okay thanks
 [09:50:16]  <JohnFlux> running the rendertest against my Xsgx, I get a segfault on one of the render tests.  It seems that there is a code path in kaapict.c  in kaaComposite  where  pSrc->pDrawable  can be null, but dereferrenced anyway, causing a segfault
 [09:50:59]  <daniels> yeah, kaa doesn't handle pictures without drawables (gradients and solid pictures, iirc)
 [09:51:02]  <daniels> exa handles them though
 [09:51:43]  <JohnFlux^ well, i think the reason is because the test creates an source without a drawable
 [09:51:49]  <JohnFlux> then does a Clear op on the destination
 [09:52:00]  <JohnFlux> so it ultimately doesn't matter that there's no source drawable
 [09:52:19]  <JohnFlux> (I'm guessing this because the test is called "Beginning Clear blend test on a8 "
 [09:52:22]  <JohnFlux> )
 [09:53:08]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I think the code can be 'fixed' by simply changing if (pSrc->pDrawable->type == DRAWABLE_PIXMAP)     to if (pSrc->pDrawable && pSrc->pDrawable->type == DRAWABLE_PIXMAP)
 [09:53:22]  <JohnFlux> although this is in kaapict.c which doesn't exist anymore  :-)
 [09:53:25]  <daniels> right
 [09:53:50]  <JohnFlux^ does my analysis make sense to you?
 [09:53:59]  <JohnFlux> is it possibly correct? :)
 [09:55:22]  <daniels> yeah, it looks as correct as you can get for a quick glance with zero context
 [09:55:34]  <JohnFlux^ :)
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[10:06:19]  <daniels> krh: plymouth -> i can't believe it's not rhgb?
 [10:06:25]  <daniels> (i can't believe it doesn't take 100% cpu)
 [10:06:41]  <krh^ that's right
 [10:07:56]  <daniels> cool beans
 [10:08:14]  <krh> it does look pretty cool :)
 [10:09:02]  <daniels> does everything bounce, a la ... akamaru?
 [10:09:55]  <krh> hah, no, no physics engines in there
 [10:10:21]  <krh> but halfline made it easy to write custom splash screens, so it's definitely doable
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[11:36:15]  <johnflux> daniels: if I do a PictOpClear in composite, that is the same as doing a solid fill of the color 0x0 of the size of the source rect, right?
 [11:38:24]  <daniels> probably true for pixmaps, but for windows, i'd imagine background/backpixel comes into play
 [11:38:29]  <daniels> not sure though, the spec should say though (haha)
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[11:39:54]  <ajax> no one wraps windows in pictures anyway
 [11:40:39]  <ajax> though, even if they did, Render should only be concerned with the raw pixel values of the window and not with its implicit rendering properties
 [11:40:49]  <johnflux> daniels: i can't really understand the spec to be honest :-)
 [11:41:05]  <daniels> makes sense, yeah
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[11:42:11]  <johnflux> daniels: wouldn't it make sense for exa to internally to these 'simplifications' ?
 [11:42:29]  <johnflux> i.e.  map composite PictOpClear to a solid fill
 [11:42:49]  <johnflux> and map PictOpSrc to a copy  etc
 [11:42:56]  <johnflux> rather than relying on each driver to do this
 [11:43:01]  <ajax> it does do a lot of that.
 [11:43:36]  <ajax> check out exaComposite() for example: if ((op == PictOpSrc && other stuff)) ret = exaTryDriverSolidFill();
 [11:44:02]  <johnflux^ hmm, I wonder if exa is more aggressive than kaa
 [11:44:13]  <johnflux> I'm using kaa :-)
 [11:44:58]  <johnflux> how much work would it be to change my code from kaa to exa? :-)
 [11:45:02]  <daniels> exa is a _lot_ more aggressive than kaa
 [11:45:07]  <daniels> hmm, not really, the basic hooks are very similar
 [11:45:13]  <johnflux^ thanks
 [11:45:35]  <daniels> np
 [11:45:36]  <ajax> kaa has some op reduction but not nearly as much as exa.
 [11:45:39]  <johnflux^ are you going to zoo btw? :)
 [11:45:44]  <ajax> sadly not.
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[11:46:19]  <ajax> even if i had money for travel, i've got huge piles of work to do for f10 and rhel 5.3
 [11:46:29]  <johnflux^ f10?
 [11:46:33]  <ajax> fedora 10
 [11:46:47]  <johnflux^ do you work for redhat?
 [11:47:04]  <ajax> -!- ajax [n=ajax@nat/redhat/x-5ef73365ad895a2b]
 [11:47:11]  <johnflux> :-)
 [11:47:18]  <johnflux> ajax: get them to pay for your travel :-)
 [11:47:38]  <ajax> yeah, uh, about that.
 [11:47:39]  <wereHamster> he said 'even if I had money', so money is not the issue
 [11:47:45]  <cjb> johnflux: > "even if i had money for travel, ..."
 [11:48:05]  <ajax> the economy is pretty dire right now, which means we're not spending for shit.
 [11:48:17]  <johnflux^ fun :/
 [11:48:29]  <ajax> and, yes, i could have applied for sponsorship from the foundation
 [11:48:46]  <ajax> but as a board member i'm not quite comfortable with that; feels too much like conflict of interest
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[11:49:05]  <ajax> so between that and being mad busy anyway, no edinburgh for me
 [11:49:06]  <johnflux> fedora foundation?
 [11:49:10]  <ajax> x.org foundation
 [11:49:13]  <johnflux> ah
 [11:49:24]  <johnflux> ajax: oh well :-)
 [11:49:39]  <johnflux> I'll post you an animal of your choosing
 [11:49:48]  <ajax> i want a turducken
 [11:50:18]  <ajax> i guess that's three animals?  so maybe not.
 [11:50:28]  <CosmicPenguin> beautiful plumage
 [11:50:36]  <cjb> you'll have to make do with just the turd.
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[11:50:50]  <johnflux> cjb: ha!
 [11:50:57]  <ajax> cjb wins
 [11:51:20]  <daniels^ http://www.flickr.com/photos/arabella/2791293113/
 [11:52:27]  * cjb decides to unsubscribe from xorg@ for the rest of today.  srsly.
 [11:52:40]  <CosmicPenguin> oh, dramaz?
 [11:52:49]  <cjb> oh noes teh GPL
 [11:52:51]  <jcristau> 'omg x gplz'
 [11:52:59]  <ajax> daniels: i'm confused.  that packaging says something about "Creole Pork".
 [11:52:59]  <CosmicPenguin> fail
 [11:53:11]  <glisse> daniels: is their a picture of people eating this kind of food ?
 [11:53:21]  <ajax> ... i think.  it's not exactly clear, and there's no bigger image.
 [11:54:23]  <ajax> i guess maybe you'd do pork sausage stuffing inside the chicken?
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[11:55:25]  <CosmicPenguin> ajax: yeah, I think thats the classic preparation
 [11:55:34]  <CosmicPenguin> because pork is tasty with everything
 [11:57:41]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, looks like
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[12:02:17]  <ajax> wow, xorg@
 [12:02:34]  <ajax> i'm really trying as hard as i can to avoid splitting off a -devel list
 [12:04:29]  <daniels> the volume of user problems isn't terribly crushing, it's just the volume of bullshit
 [12:04:36]  <daniels> the latter will end up on xorg-devel@ regardless
 [12:04:47]  <ajax> right.
 [12:04:58]  <daniels> i mean, it's not like #xorg has kept this channel completely unpolluted
 [12:05:14]  <daniels> so i don't think it'll really help per se, given our real problem isn't people emailing logs going 'hai it doesn't work also sdvo pls'
 [12:05:18]  <cjb> I guess unpolluted == dead, for the most part.
 [12:06:13]  <daniels> sure, so you eventually fill it with your own chatter and bollocks until it reaches the pleasant equilibrium between quiet and interesting.
 [12:06:26]  <jcristau^ 'hi i want to make dual screen work with xorg 7.1 help me plz'
 [12:07:28]  <ajax> "i need dual screen in vesa"
 [12:07:33]  <ajax> you're not going to get it.
 [12:07:36]  <ajax> "yes, but i need it"
 [12:07:40]  <daniels> jcristau: 'hi we promised stupid shit to our customers with zero understanding of what it meant also i'm the one posting to hide the technical people because i'm a project manager'
 [12:07:45]  <ajax> then life is hard for you.
 [12:07:49]  <ajax> "so how do i do it"
 [12:07:51]  <daniels> luckily he did mostly stop posting after i smacked him down severely in private mail
 [12:07:55]  <ajax> /shotgun
 [12:07:58]  <daniels> (also when i set his moderation flag)
 [12:08:05]  <jcristau> heh
 [12:08:20]  <daniels> ajax: i think the 'i hear vesa is a generic driver so can we make the ati driver work on intel on asianux 3.despair for dual screen'
 [12:08:25]  <daniels> was the pinnacle
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[12:35:40]  <johnflux> I'm finding that a lot of operations are broken in kaa :(
 [12:35:58]  <johnflux> most of the cacomposite's draw incorrectly
 [12:36:16]  <johnflux> I think I might have to change from kaa to exa
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[12:38:17]  <daniels> well, you'd be the only person still using kaa, so
 [12:38:35]  <daniels> hell, you're pretty much the only non-xephyr kdrive user at this point (at least in terms of people who talk to us)
 [12:38:50]  <johnflux^ :)
 [12:39:00]  <jcristau+ you're not a kdrive user any more?
 [12:39:02]  <johnflux> daniels:  i'm wondering if it's easier to switch to exa than to try to get this working
 [12:39:39]  <johnflux> how would I switch to using exa instead?  can I do it with the last released version of kdrive or would i need to use head?
 [12:39:41]  <daniels> jcristau: no, thank christ
 [12:40:03]  <daniels> johnflux: well, either way, you could fix kaa and be screwed with the next bug, or migrate to exa and get support ...
 [12:40:12]  * johnflux nods
 [12:40:12]  <daniels^ should be fairly trivial, the api is mostly rather similar
 [12:40:22]  <daniels> exa was based upon kaa, ish
 [12:42:31]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: did you see the patch i sent to xorg@?
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[12:43:59]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: patience, young man... I just got back from 10-11 hours of travel and am writing up a review
 [12:48:32]  <daniels^ such a lovely day, shame you had to leave
 [12:48:58]  <MrCooper> all good things come to an end ;)
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[12:56:35]  <cjb> daniels: I've been hacking on glamo a little, which is non-xephyr kdrive.
 [12:57:38]  <ajax> would be nice to have that in-tree someday
 [12:57:50]  <cjb> it's GPL
 [12:58:11]  <krh> what? Xorg is going GPL?
 [12:58:41]  <cjb> yup.  it just happened.  the GPL is a virus, see.  tag, you're it.
 [12:58:50]  <jbarnes> krh: yeah you didn't get the memo?
 [12:58:59]  <krh> euw, GPL cooties
 [12:59:03]  <daniels> we would've got away with it too, if it weren't for you pesky kids
 [12:59:11]  <jbarnes> we're using spin_lock from the linux kernel and infecting the X server
 [12:59:21]  <Ori_B> daniels: ping
 [12:59:23]  <ajax> aaw.
 [12:59:26]  <daniels> jbarnes: BUT USING LINKED LISTS MAKES YOU GPL
 [12:59:27]  <cjb> oh, hey
 [12:59:28]  <daniels> Ori_B: repong
 [12:59:28]  <mjg59> The GPL is a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell?
 [12:59:31]  <cjb> it's not actually GPL
 [12:59:45]  <cjb> I just totally messed up the IRC channel FOR NOTHING
 [12:59:46]  <Ori_B> daniels: I just realized I never updated my key for fd.o
 [12:59:52]  <ajax> alright, failing that: it would be really really awesome to have a standard "based on the SI but GPL" tree for things like glamo and Xvnc
 [13:00:02]  <Ori_B> and to complicate matters a bit, my PGP was on a dead hard drive
 [13:00:09]  <daniels^ nicely done
 [13:00:12]  <cjb> yeah, it's BSD.  Someone told me it was GPL and was obviously lying.  :)
 [13:00:14]  <Ori_B> indeed.
 [13:00:23]  <daniels^ the usual procedure is to file a bug on fd.o/Account Maintenance with the new gpg key
 [13:00:48]  <ajax> (i still maintain that xgpl would be a good thing to have)
 [13:00:51]  <cjb> Dodji: any objections to pushing glamo in-tree?
 [13:00:57]  <Ori_B> ok, cool. I'll do that when I get home then
 [13:00:59]  <Ori_B> thanks
 [13:01:00]  <daniels> ajax: if only git made it easy to have multiple repositories, branched from one single master, pulling from multiple downstream trees
 [13:01:10]  <ajax> if only!
 [13:01:19]  <daniels> that would totally solve all our problems
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[13:19:04]  <cjb> wiki seems dead.
 [13:20:43]  <daniels> annarchy is screwed, robot101 is looking into it
 [13:20:47]  <daniels> you're shocked, i know
 [13:20:48]  <daniels> me to
 [13:20:49]  <daniels> o
 [13:20:51]  <daniels> christ
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[13:25:30]  <cjb> let me know if I can help, I'm near the machine.
 [13:25:37]  <cjb> (which is to say, 5 mins away by bike.)
 [13:25:52]  <cjb> we probably have swanky iLO that means ut doesn't matter who's near it, though.
 [13:25:56]  <cjb> s/ut/it/
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[13:26:57]  <MrCooper> johnflux: I told you long ago that a lot of issues were fixed in EXA after it spawned from KAA...
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[13:42:07]  <ajax> damage confuses me.
 [13:46:41]  <stillunknown^ I thought you were an X guru.
 [13:47:09]  <ajax> that doesn't preclude damage from being confusing.
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[13:48:03]  <stillunknown> Is it the "it's confusing but i still understand it reasonbly well" kind of confusing?
 [13:48:27]  <ajax> more like the "it's internally inconsistent and needs a bit of detangling" kind of confusing
 [13:48:33]  <Dodji> cjb, no, no objection. the only problem is that it is 1.3 based
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[13:50:20]  <stillunknown> ajax: I can't argue with that.
 [13:50:26]  <cjb> Dodji: ah, okay.  do you think the openmoko folks are interested in moving up?
 [13:50:57]  <stillunknown> I just don't understand what damage does outside exa.
 [13:54:45]  <Dodji> cjb, yeah I think so.
 [13:55:04]  <Dodji> I wanted to do it. thenI got sidetracked :-(
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[14:00:18]  <ajax> stillunknown: well, it's also exposed in the protocol
 [14:00:25]  <ajax> and in shadow
 [14:00:32]  <ajax> er, "and used in shadow"
 [14:00:37]  <ajax> and in the software cursor code
 [14:00:39]  <ajax> and and and.
 [14:00:45]  <ajax> it's a remarkably useful hammer
 [14:01:30]  <stillunknown^ I know it's used in other places, i just don't have the oversight to predict any consequences of changes.
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[14:05:21]  <stillunknown> aaronp: So you're only interested in damage once it's actually rendered?
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[14:15:47]  <jcristau> ajax: any known x86emu bug that would cause 'Emulator asked to make a suspect byte access to port 4 (0x0004); terminating.' (with the sis driver)?
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[14:17:07]  <daniels> jcristau: you'd probably need to build it with debug to get a full insn trace, to work out how exactly it got to that point
 [14:20:30]  <ajax> wow, my brain hurts now
 [14:25:05]  <jcristau> daniels: ok i'll build a debug libint10.so and get the submitters to try it
 [14:27:40]  <jcristau> got two reports with that error, same sis chipset
 [14:32:19]  <ajax> it really shouldn't abort when that happens
 [14:32:30]  <ajax> i'm not pleased that that patch went in.  i've half a mind to revert it.
 [14:33:21]  <ajax> i mean, once you call bios services, either whatever it does is right and you shouldn't second guess it, or the emulator is broken and needs fixed anyway and aborting isn't going to get you any closer to working.
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[14:35:01]  <aaronp> stillunknown: For direct-rendered OpenGL clients, yeah.
 [14:35:25]  <aaronp> I'll write up a reply email after lunch, but the gist of it is that X sends the damage event and Compiz processes that event before the rendering actually occurs.
 [14:35:57]  <ajax^ i did a fairly exhaustive brain dump there.  lemme know what you think.
 [14:36:22]  <aaronp> even if the X driver has already flushed its commands to the hardware
 [14:38:43]  <stillunknown^ my idea would be to add postedDamage as well as pendingDamage, a callback with the damage pointer into the driver alowing it to inject a marker, and a callback into the server to signal it's done
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[14:42:01]  <stillunknown> damage pointer not being the real pointer for internal api sake
 [14:42:48]  <jcristau> daniels: just to be sure, building libint10.so with -DDEBUG is enough?
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[14:56:04]  <daniels> jcristau: i can't remember off the top of my head, tbh
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[14:56:24]  <jcristau> ok, i'll check that later
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[15:19:34]  <jcristau> omg pcpa..
 [15:22:53]  <daniels> this is a fucking trainwreck thread
 [15:28:58]  <ajax> i probably shouldn't point out that i'm approximately as close to a linus as we're likely to get any time soon.
 [15:29:31]  <ajax> both because it's a bit egotistical, and because if i say it it'll come true and that's doom i really don't need
 [15:29:50]  <pcpa> jcristau, ajax :-)
 [15:30:00]  <CosmicPenguin> thats a good rule - never admit you are in a position of power
 [15:33:47]  <daniels> ajax: plus, pragmatically, there's not much point.  people are going to start being contrary just for the sake of it.
 [15:33:58]  <ajax> NO THEY AREN'T
 [15:33:59]  <ajax> etc.
 [15:34:47]  <ajax> (WW) avc:  denied  { saver_hide saver_show } for request=X11:ForceScreenSaver comm=x11perf scontext=unconfined_u:unconfined_r:unconfined_t:s0-s0:c0.c1023 tcontext=unconfined_u:object_r:unconfined_t:s0 tclass=x_screen
 [15:34:55]  <ajax> thanks for that, selinux.
 [15:35:18]  <daniels> well, it is doing its job
 [15:40:29]  <ajax> yay, the radical shmputimage lobotomy appears to work.
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[15:47:21]  <jbarnes> hm wiki.x.org is down as well?
 [15:47:45]  <mjg59^ annarchy is sad
 [15:52:14]  <bryce+ it's not responding for me either
 [15:52:41]  <jbarnes> fail
 [15:52:51]  <jbarnes> we obviously need more clones of benjsc_
 [15:53:12]  <jbarnes> bryce: btw thanks for getting that survey back to us
 [15:53:26]  <jbarnes> we're using the feedback to refine our development process
 [15:53:30]  <bryce> oh hey sure, thanks for 2.4.1 it's much improved :-)
 [15:53:44]  <bryce> excellent
 [15:55:32]  <bryce> wiki.x.org isn't down, it's just reaaaallly slow.  (or maybe it just came back?)
 [15:57:13]  <bryce> nope, just slow.
 [15:59:20]  <daniels> freedesktop@ilo.annarchy.freedesktop.org's password:
[15:59:20]  <daniels> Received disconnect from UNKNOWN: 11:  Client Disconnect
 [15:59:22]  <daniels> THANKS ILO
 [15:59:50]  <cjb> oh
 [15:59:57]  <cjb> there are some bugs with iLO
 [16:00:12]  <cjb> for OLPC's machines, we have to unset $LANG before ssh'ing, or something like that happens
 [16:00:22]  <cjb> (or rather, LANG=C)
 [16:00:38]  <cjb> but if you've done it before, it's probably something else.
 [16:00:38]  <daniels> yeah, i already hacked ssh_config to comment out the SendEnv line
 [16:00:41]  <daniels> yeah
 [16:00:42]  <cjb> k.
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[16:02:56]  <aaronp> Great, xchat + transparent background + no SHM pixmaps = BadImplementation
 [16:03:18]  <ajax> i fixed that a while ago?
 [16:03:55]  <ajax> apparently they still haven't taken the patch.  fantastic.
 [16:04:18]  <ajax> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/xchat/devel/xchat-2.8.4-shm-pixmaps.patch?revision=1.3
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[16:10:49]  <jcristau> ajax: would it make sense to fix the randr 1.2 'if (client->swapped) return BadImplementation;' stuff for 1.5? either by cherry-picking the fix, or just not exposing 1.2 for swapped clients?
 [16:11:13]  <wereHamster> is the mail archive stored on anarchy? Would explain the slowness (low on disk space, see the mail to xorg@fdo)
 [16:11:27]  <ajax> jcristau: yeah, should do that.
 [16:12:26]  <jcristau^ i'm using http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/xserver/xorg-server.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/50_Make-RandRQueryVersion-return-1.1-for-swapped-client.patch;h=d2b76e9e457e66f07602e5e7279e82dcfe8b2b19;hb=HEAD fwiw
 [16:12:34]  <jcristau> (yay gitweb)
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[16:15:52]  <daniels> wereHamster: no, lists.fd.o lives on gabe
 [16:16:19]  <daniels> i just called keithp, he's not in portland right now but will poke at the machine later this afternoon pacific time.  it needs physical attention: i can't even log in via ilo.
 [16:17:13]  <daniels> wereHamster: btw, gabe isn't low on diskspace.  i assume that's just pipermail being shit.
 [16:17:45]  <daniels> i'm completely regenerating the xorg archives.  this probably won't be pleasant.
 [16:18:11]  <cjb^ oh, does annarchy live in portland?
 [16:18:49]  <cjb> .. so it does.
 [16:18:59]  <daniels^ all the fd.o machines (gabe, fruit, kemper, annarchy) live at cs.pdx.edu.  all the xorg machines (expo + another two which are never switched on) live at mit.edu.
 [16:19:08]  <cjb> got it.
 [16:19:31]  <daniels> alanc: injecting sensible and reasoned argument into this thread is setting a dangerous precedent
 [16:19:34]  <daniels> soon everyone will be doin git
 [16:20:19]  <alanc^ I know, reason has no place in license religious wars
 [16:22:00]  * cjb considers objecting to "religious" as a denigration of ethical viewpoints, decides to shut up instead.
 [16:24:12]  <alanc> "faith-based license discussions"?    "If Xorg converted to GPLism, I have faith that it would experience a second coming of developers"    (and apologies in advance for how many people that's going to offend)
 [16:25:20]  <cjb> I guess it hadn't occured to me that, while I'm offended because I'm not religious and don't wish my viewpoints to be mistaken with religious ones, other people are going to be offended because they *are* religious and don't wish their religious viewpoints to be confused with their licensing ones :)
 [16:25:30]  <cjb> .. so in short, it's probably a good idea not to say that.
 [16:26:35]  <CosmicPenguin> assuming you feel sympathy for folks who can't keep the two concepts seperate in their minds
 [16:28:06]  <alanc> cjb: fair enough, just a very old habit among many geeks ("vi vs. emacs religious wars" and the like), and RMS's "Saint iGNUtius" stuff just encourages it
 [16:28:38]  <daniels^ phew, someone's come along making stupid and unjustified blanket statements.  lucky.
 [16:28:57]  <cjb+ but it means that you're arguing that anyone who would advocate for the GPL is not being rational, and is instead holding an unwarranted faith belief.  I suspect you're smarter than that.
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[16:29:42]  <cjb> (that came out harsher than I intended, sorry.)
 [16:30:08]  <alanc> daniels: there is one licensing question I've been meaning to ask, but now is the wrong time to mail to the list - I thought the board was going to put out a new recommended form of the MIT/X11 license last year - did that ever happen?
 [16:30:59]  <alanc> I've been waiting to submit relicensing Sun's code until the final form was agreed to avoid doing it multiple times, though I know our lawyers prefer the version of the MIT license on the OSI website, to avoid proliferating more varients
 [16:31:20]  <daniels^ long story, but the answer is essentially no
 [16:31:28]  <daniels> it sort of got lost between us and the sflc because handwave
 [16:32:26]  <daniels> proliferation is definitely a valid concern too, we'd only change it if it was actually problematic.
 [16:33:02]  <alanc> cjb: I believe that the people who claim switching to GPL will greatly increase our developer ranks are operating on an unwarranted faith belief - I understand there are other reasons to switch, and not everyone arguing for it is irrational
 [16:33:55]  <cjb^ righto.
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[16:34:05]  <aaronp> ajax: Thanks for the patch, that definitely fixes it.
 [16:34:55]  <daniels> alanc: if it were me making the decision today, i'd say gpl, just because i don't want to encourage people to develop binary-only drivers, and _certainly_ not their own binary-only forks and improvements (generally accompanied by websites saying LOL XORG IS TEH SUX, LOOK @ US WE R AWESUM).
 [16:35:23]  <alanc> obviously, my employer is a GPL fan, having released OpenOffice & Java under GPL, so I'm not coming from the "GPL is always wrong" camp
 [16:35:41]  <daniels^ but what's done is done, and i can't really see a huge benefit at the moment, other than pissing people off by making such a big statement.  tbh there are some people i would enjoy pissing off, but it's not really a good motivation.
 [16:36:34]  <cjb^ that's very restrained of you :)
 [16:37:19]  <daniels^ it's tough, but i'm willing to make these kinds of sacrifices.
 [16:37:24]  <aaronp> ajax: Also in other news, apparently I managed to break xmessage in nv 2.1.11...
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[16:38:32]  <jcristau> aaronp: btw did you see my mail about UseFBDev in nv a few days ago?
 [16:38:56]  <aaronp> Yeah, it's in my pile of mail I received while on vacation that I still need to deal with.
 [16:39:03]  <jcristau> ok
 [16:39:56]  <cjb> hah, this thread is getting better.
 [16:39:59]  <cjb> by which I mean, worse.
 [16:40:13]  <jcristau> hopefully it'll soon die on its own
 [16:40:15]  <daniels> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_problems_solved_by_MacGyver
 [16:40:18]  <jcristau> and only come back next year
 [16:40:25]  <daniels> there's a hell of a lot of cool stuff there, but he never once mentions licensing flamewars
 [16:40:29]  <daniels> i demand a refund
 [16:40:53]  <daniels> oh for fuck's sake
 [16:41:21]  <alanc> yeah, my biggest fear of a GPL Xorg is that the semi-annual "Xorg should go GPL" threads become monthly "____ is violating GPL by shipping nvidia drivers" threads
 [16:41:39]  <cjb+ those threads should stay on linux-kernel where they belong
 [16:43:28]  <stillunknown> alanc: lgpl would solve that issue wouldn't it?
 [16:43:29]  <daniels+ that's fine, they can go to the named distros
 [16:43:52]  <DrNick> the fun thing about the perpetual licensing flame war threads is that you don't have to read them
 [16:44:00]  <alanc> stillunknown: yes, or GPL-with-exceptions-for-loadable-modules
 [16:44:15]  <drago01> cjb: it does not belong there either ... lkml is a technical list
 [16:44:23]  <cjb> DrNick: yeah, you can be all "I bet someone said that GPL is a religious virus" and you're right without having to look.
 [16:44:31]  <cjb> drago01: sorry, was being sarcastic.
 [16:44:34]  <jcristau+ but i don't read that one so it doesn't matter
 [16:44:40]  <drago01> ;)
 [16:45:52]  <daniels> i think my ideal dream would be to have a gpl server, in order to piss off all the BSD AND MIT IS PURE EVERYTHING ELSE IS BULLSHIT WE OWN PURITY JUST DON'T LOOK AT OUR TOOLCHAIN people, and then somehow find a way to piss all the fsf freaks off too, so we're just left with reasonable people.
 [16:46:44]  <cjb^ genius.
 [16:46:53]  <pjones+ oh, pissing off the fsf freaks as well is easy.  just use GPLv2 not GPLv3.
 [16:47:04]  <stillunknown> gpl is a different kind of freedom than mit, it all depends on what people want
 [16:47:18]  <alanc> daniels: take a MPL style license to piss everyone off
 [16:47:21]  <DrNick> pjones: and call Linux "Linux"
 [16:47:27]  <pjones> daniels: (and omit the "or, at your option" bit, of course)
 [16:47:39]  <cjb> stillunknown: I think of them as societal freedom instead of individual developer freedom.  Anyone who claims that one of them is more "free" than the other without saying whose freedom is being optimized is lying.
 [16:47:48]  <daniels> alanc: yes, but the main problem is that you then have the mpl ;)
 [16:48:03]  <daniels> pjones: good point.  i also happen to not really like the gplv3, so i think that is actually the winningest position.
 [16:48:14]  <pjones> convenient, eh?
 [16:48:25]  <daniels> a little ... _too_ convenient.
 [16:48:29]  <mjg59> Wow. Good thing the embedded guys aren't running Linux, eh?
 [16:49:00]  <daniels^ yeah, then we'd all be screwed.  doubleplus tragedy if their entire toolchain was also gpl.
 [16:49:01]  <pjones> DrNick: I'm becoming more and more convinced that the source of the phrase "GNU/Linux" is actually BSD people.
 [16:49:27]  <cjb^ is this like Republicans who say people should write-in votes for Hillary?
 [16:49:37]  <pjones^ yes.
 [16:49:41]  <cjb> .. wow, we totally lose at not being distracted by the stupid flamewars.
 [16:50:35]  <daniels> LOOK, A DIVERSION.
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[16:58:02]  <krh> all the embedded devices use twm
 [16:59:03]  <daniels> no, they all use twin
 [16:59:28]  <krh> is twin pure?
 [17:00:00]  <daniels> purity is only achieved by your first slaughter of the infidels.  it's like a rite of passage.
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[17:02:08]  <daniels> i should put twm + xterm + xeyes + xclock + xedit + xmessage on the n810 for a laugh.
 [17:02:14]  <daniels> desktop of the future!
 [17:02:40]  <CosmicPenguin> funny - I use most of those for my Geode testing
 [17:03:27]  <daniels> i'm _so_ sorry.
 [17:03:41]  <CosmicPenguin> twm ran on the XO long before sugar did... :)
 [17:03:42]  <krh> oh, twm is cool for testing
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[17:04:12]  <krh> opaque resize sucks when you leak a buffer object per resize event :)
 [17:05:01]  <daniels> in my world, app/ is pretty much xkbcomp + setxkbmap + xev.
 [17:07:53]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to annarchy (www.x.org, {people,anongit,bugs}.fd.o) down, back in some hours | End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 once there's a Mesa 7.1 | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[17:08:20]  <jcristau> the 'once there's a Mesa 7.1' bit could be removed now :)
 [17:09:00]  ***  daniels has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to annarchy (www.x.org, {people,anongit,bugs}.fd.o) down, back in some hours | End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 when you all start behaving yourselves | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[17:09:49]  <wereHamster> that is a bit unrealistic, don't you think daniel?
 [17:10:33]  <daniels> you've got to want it.
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[17:22:19]  <z3ro> daniels: hmm the n810 looks like a nice bit of hardware.
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[17:32:17]  <osiris__> did AMD just open sourced their fglrx driver then put it on fd.org and everyone is trying to download it? because I can't open any fd.o site (gitweb, cgit, x.org, fd.org) since yesterday
 [17:33:25]  <alanc> Mesa 7.1 released yesterday, so now everyone keeps hitting reload every 5 seconds to see if we released Xorg 1.5 yet
 [17:33:59]  <daniels> osiris__: i haven't heard reports of any mass suicides, so that seems unlikely
 [17:34:25]  <daniels> annarchy is utterly hammered and so is its remote management console, so keithp is going to go in and take a look today
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[17:37:28]  <osiris__> alanc: will Xorg 1.5 be released before/during XDS?
 [17:37:47]  <osiris__> daniels: ok, will try later then
 [17:38:18]  <alanc^ dunno, have to ask ajax
 [17:38:23]  <daniels+ probably before
 [17:38:51]  <alanc> depends how much scotch we send him to make up for him not coming to XDS
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[17:39:06]  <osiris__> great :)
 [17:39:27]  <daniels> alanc: he's more of a bourbon man.  west virginia, remember.
 [17:39:42]  <osiris__> btw, thank you for all the great work. it's really appreciated
 [17:44:53]  <osiris__> aah, don't be so modest. just say it. you're the heroes :)
 [17:45:24]  <daniels> i accept paypal and 42 below
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[17:48:27]  <z3ro> daniels: you should try Chinese wine. Woah!
 [17:48:36]  <daniels> heh :)
 [17:48:59]  <z3ro> it tasts somewhere between petrol and rocket fuel.
 [17:49:06]  <jcristau> whot: looks like XI.h in master includes <X11/Xmd.h>. i believe that should be removed, see b5cbe2d9.
 [17:49:46]  <daniels> z3ro: i have to admit i'm not really an expert in that doman
 [17:50:00]  <z3ro> heh it was kind of funny. one time at dinner I said I liked the wine... more just being polite than actually enjoying it...
 [17:50:06]  <ajax> bourbon, absinthe, simple syrup, splash of bitters.
 [17:50:23]  <z3ro> so a few mins later one of the waiters brings out about 8 shot glasses of it.
 [17:50:28]  <ajax> purists will tell you you should use rye instead, and they may be right
 [17:50:53]  <z3ro> I found walking difficult after that.
 [17:51:00]  <daniels> jcristau: eh, if we're not allowed to use {INT,CARD}{8,16,32} for fixed-size types, we may as well use {u,}int{8,16,32}_t.
 [17:51:17]  <daniels> z3ro: jesus, you win
 [17:51:38]  <z3ro> and they usually expect you to finish a whole shot glass in 1 or 2 drinks.
 [17:51:39]  <jcristau> daniels: i'm all for using {u,}int{8,16,32}_t :)
 [17:52:02]  <ajax> personally i think bourbon in a sazerac is just fine
 [17:52:04]  <osiris__> I'd recommend honeywine
 [17:53:31]  <z3ro> I'm usually vodka, beer, and burbon... although B52's are nice in the clubs (at least in China... they are probably expensive in NZ)
 [17:54:34]  <z3ro> flaming B52's are especially fun (don't spill this one ;)
 [17:55:02]  <ajax> for reference, i'm going to shoot for 7.4 within the week
 [17:55:19]  <ajax> noting that i don't work on weekends as a matter of sanity, and that monday is a US holiday
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[17:57:57]  <ajax> "the week" being a week from today, not "by friday"
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[17:58:24]  <ajax> i may be a ninja, but i'm not a messiah
 [17:59:03]  <daniels> da-na na-na, da-na-na-na, ...
 [18:00:08]  <ajax> (katamari damashiiii...)
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[18:00:34]  <daniels> ajax: also a good option, but i was strictly referring to family guy
 [18:01:12]  <ajax> which one?  i'm not catching the reference quickly enough
 [18:01:20]  <ajax> clearly more bourbon is required
 [18:01:36]  <daniels> stewie griffin: the untold story
 [18:01:44]  <daniels> i think it's roughly halfway through, when he's on the tram in sf
 [18:02:43]  <ajax> i haven't watched that recently.  been going through the last two seasons though.
 [18:02:57]  <ajax> i like that they don't bleep the dvds of the last season
 [18:04:09]  <z3ro> I find american dad funnier than family guy...
 [18:04:11]  <daniels> jesus, that'd be unwatchable.
 [18:04:22]  * z3ro waits for a bottle of burbon to fly past his head. ;)
 [18:04:58]  <z3ro> *bourbon
 [18:05:28]  <ajax> did we just jack someone's car, brian?
 [18:05:38]  <daniels^ i don't remember that
 [18:06:23]  <osiris__> z3ro: why wait? I'm sure they have many of them in the nearby shop :)
 [18:06:47]  <z3ro^ heh it's like 9 am here...
 [18:06:54]  <z3ro> 10:07am
 [18:07:09]  <z3ro> maybe a *little* early. ;)
 [18:07:42]  <ajax> daniels: "Road to Rupert", s5e09.
 [18:07:47]  <aaronp> Aargh, how am I supposed to reply to your message when Mutt doesn't see it?
 [18:07:48]  <osiris__> z3ro: oh, the unwritten don't drink before noon rule
 [18:07:51]  <aaronp> Stupid software never works.
 [18:07:54]  <z3ro> although... I'm about to tackle installing a new version of fglrx...
 [18:08:15]  <z3ro> so a shopping cart o' vodka wouldn't go a miss. ;)
 [18:08:16]  <jcristau> aaronp: thankfully, hardware doesn't either
 [18:08:22]  <jcristau> ;)
 [18:08:25]  <aaronp> Very true
 [18:08:43]  <aaronp> Apparently ~/.mutt-cache was to blame.
 [18:08:48]  <daniels> ajax: oh, of course.
 [18:08:57]  <osiris__> z3ro: but hey, you can pretend that you're going to continue the yesterday's night party :)
 [18:09:11]  <z3ro> hehe :P
 [18:10:04]  <daniels> ajax: 0:54:59 in the movie, fwiw
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[18:11:01]  * ajax makes a note of it
 [18:11:33]  <daniels> well, you probably want to start watching 30sec earlier for context
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[18:13:17]  <ajax> someone please explain this sentence to me:
 [18:13:22]  <ajax> "Last time I checked, a Linux company expects to make a profit."
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[18:13:29]  <ajax> in the context of a licensing discussion.
 [18:13:40]  <jcristau^ 'type d'
 [18:13:44]  <cjb+ simple -- "I smoke crack.  Would you like some of my crack?  I like my crack very much."
 [18:14:21]  <ajax> oh good.
 [18:14:28]  <daniels^ i tried to parse that mail, i really did.
 [18:14:30]  <ohsix> url to discussion?
 [18:14:40]  <cjb^ save yourself
 [18:14:42]  <jcristau+ you don't want to read it
 [18:15:36]  <ajax> marc.info, xorg list, something about the gpl.  there's a drinking game to go along with it, if you're into that kind of thing.
 [18:15:46]  <daniels> http://slashdot.org, look for comments containing the words 'gpl' or 'bsd', preferably rated far below 0.
 [18:15:55]  <daniels> ajax: 'every time, drink.'
 [18:16:09]  <osiris__> my parser returned: unexpected constant string 'company' after keyword Linux
 [18:16:39]  <daniels> INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE
 [18:16:45]  <ajax^ if you get suckered into replying, finish the bottle.
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[18:19:26]  <ajax> aaronp: you totally missed an opportunity to say "fuck it, we're going straight to five"
 [18:20:16]  <aaronp> You could reply to that effect.  ;)
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[18:21:24]  <stillunknown> But 4 also requires some kind of synchronisation mechanism.
 [18:21:41]  <ajax> i could!
 [18:21:50]  <ajax> the world is full of opportunity and wonder
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[18:22:05]  <daniels> ajax: i have more bottles than replies sent, so i'm winning, by which i mean losing.
 [18:22:31]  <ajax> in related news, i'm taking this opportunity to go home and then go consume beer, which is wonderful.
 [18:23:04]  <stillunknown> I for one wouldn't mind having the 3 stage damage design.
 [18:23:10]  <daniels> my sole bottle of red stripe was emptied long ago.
 [18:23:15]  <stillunknown> eg, before, submit, done
 [18:23:52]  <stillunknown> 5 just seems like a different way of transmitting that damage has been done
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[18:55:17]  <z3ro> damn amd gpu temp tool. why can't it just access regs and make my life easy. ;P
 [18:55:35]  <z3ro> as fun as tracing library and system calls is...
 [18:58:07]  <airlied^ its probably just bashin i2c gpios.
 [18:58:21]  <airlied> talking to temp sensors like lm_sensors does.
 [18:59:13]  <z3ro^ yeah, but this tool also can get/set the core/mem clocks, and get back GPU load, etc. I guess this could all be done over i2c?
 [18:59:32]  <airlied> nope that stuff is probably just hitting regs.
 [18:59:42]  <airlied> the core mem clocks stuff we already know.
 [18:59:53]  <airlied> the GPU load I'm not sure how they magic that up.
 [19:00:34]  <z3ro> well it all seems to go though this libatiadlxx, and I *think* it's going to the kernel from there... but I'm not sure yet.
 [19:02:48]  <z3ro> does BDF mean anything in the context of i2c? there are functions Send and SendBDF
 [19:03:05]  <mjg59> We need to figure out how to handle runtime power management sanely
 [19:03:16]  <ohsix> seems that openbsd chap isn't helping things :] do they all aspire to act like theo?
 [19:06:27]  <airlied> mjg59: alex is adding the powerplay stuff to modesetting.
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[19:06:32]  <mjg59> airlied: Oh, nice
 [19:06:34]  <airlied^ so we just need to make a sane userspace interface.
 [19:06:43]  <airlied> we'll do a sys one initially..
 [19:06:51]  <mjg59^ And for X to do dynamic clocking of it
 [19:06:52]  <airlied> the latency on some state changes isn't trivial..
 [19:06:56]  <mjg59> Except, ugh.
 [19:06:59]  <airlied> also in certain states you can't do 3D
 [19:07:10]  <airlied> so you have to change state on say someone running a 3D app.
 [19:07:18]  <mjg59> Sigh drm
 [19:08:19]  <airlied> X probably won't want to control this..
 [19:08:22]  <mjg59> Yeah
 [19:08:30]  <mjg59> We need a sane in-kernel interface
 [19:08:48]  <airlied^ yup but that was beyond my realm of thinking until we had the code somewhere.
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[19:08:58]  <mjg59> There was a noticable power saving when I underclocked an nv40, even in idle 2D
 [19:08:59]  <airlied> currently we've just got a hacked X driver that does it statically.
 [19:09:13]  <airlied> with a sys interface at least we can play with it..
 [19:09:22]  <mjg59> Whatever's controlling it needs to know what's going on
 [19:09:27]  <mjg59> Static downclocking is teh suck
 [19:09:40]  <airlied^ the question is who knows whaats going on :)
 [19:09:49]  <mjg59> Right, that's the misery
 [19:10:21]  <airlied> the drm knows when the GPU is processing, and what it is processing.
 [19:10:27]  <mjg59> Sigh. It'd be good to talk about this next week, but I've no idea whether anyone relevant is going to be there
 [19:10:34]  <mjg59> airlied: Even for 2D right now?
 [19:10:50]  <airlied^ yes if the drm is loaded all stuff goes via it
 [19:10:52]  <airlied> at leasty on AMD
 [19:11:01]  <mjg59> Oh, duh, of course
 [19:11:08]  <mjg59> And nouveau, presumably
 [19:11:26]  <airlied^ nouveau is a bit different but I think the kernel can still know something is happening.
 [19:11:31]  <airlied> they have independent fifos.
 [19:11:34]  <mjg59> Yeah
 [19:11:39]  <marcheu> hmmm
 [19:11:45]  <mjg59> Intel just seems to have clock gating
 [19:11:58]  <mjg59> So we don't really care about them
 [19:12:03]  <marcheu> I was wondering the same, we can see the fifo position regs move for sure, but how do you sample the information ?
 [19:12:22]  <marcheu> I mean like every 100th of a second ?
 [19:12:24]  <airlied^ there is probably a context switch counter somewhere :)
 [19:12:31]  <airlied> but polling for it would be a pain..
 [19:12:53]  <marcheu^ doesn't tell much about the load... you can have a blinking cursor which will trigger switches but wouldn't warrant upclocking
 [19:13:21]  <airlied^ people with blinking cursors deserve to burn their knees.
 [19:13:37]  <mjg59^ Or moving cursors
 [19:13:40]  <marcheu> sadly they exist. there's also clocks with seconds and the time display in media players...
 [19:13:55]  <airlied> the thing is we can't make special rednering paths for those..
 [19:13:56]  <marcheu> all this will trigger graphics activity 4-5 times per second
 [19:14:09]  <airlied> so we really don't know if they are about to do something big..
 [19:14:30]  <marcheu> yup, I've been thinking about this before and I realized we were going to neeed user space hints
 [19:14:38]  <mjg59> Ouch
 [19:15:13]  <marcheu> for 2d I considered the alternative of using occlusion queries to find out the number of pixels being pushed...
 [19:15:38]  <marcheu> i.e. enable occlusion queries all the time and get "accurate" data on drawn pixels
 [19:15:48]  <marcheu> still only a band aid
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[19:16:01]  <mjg59> marcheu: Hints from the server rather than from clients, I guess?
 [19:16:25]  <marcheu^ hopefully
 [19:16:36]  <mjg59> Pretty heavy fail otherwise
 [19:16:45]  <marcheu> also another way would be "if my fifo pointer are trailing too much I upclock"
 [19:16:48]  <airlied> the problem is that the driver will just get EXA operations.
 [19:17:03]  <mjg59> marcheu: Yeah, that might work
 [19:17:04]  <airlied> and on -ati say the second ticking will do a 3D op.
 [19:17:13]  <marcheu> mjg59: I don't know, didn't try it :)
 [19:17:19]  <airlied> now I more than likely have to powerup to do that :)
 [19:17:43]  <marcheu^ why so ?
 [19:17:57]  <airlied> using 3D means powering up to another level.
 [19:18:03]  <stillunknown> For nouveau i'd first worry on how to do voltage switching, something which is a mystery so far.
 [19:18:05]  <marcheu> airlied: always ?
 [19:18:17]  <airlied^ well from what agd5f mentioned before.
 [19:18:17]  <marcheu> stillunknown: we can do clocks first it's a win already
 [19:18:24]  <marcheu> airlied: hmm ok
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[19:18:27]  <airlied> marcheu: only if we are in the lowest state of hell
 [19:19:00]  * airlied doesn't even want to contemplate laptops with dynamic chipset configuring
 [19:19:07]  <marcheu> I must've missed that discussion
 [19:19:10]  <airlied> switch between Intel and nvidia at runtime.
 [19:19:23]  <airlied> not just a dumb switch + reboot
 [19:19:35]  <stillunknown> marcheu: Then we still need a reliable clockgen.
 [19:19:38]  <marcheu> those laptops are braindead in the first place... why have 2 graphics card if you have a _laptop_
 [19:19:57]  <airlied^ because you do CAD work.
 [19:20:02]  <marcheu> stillunknown: no, the default clocks are the max, we can still underclock
 [19:20:13]  <marcheu> airlied: then get a nice graphics card and not a small one...
 [19:20:20]  <stillunknown^ we still need a working clockgen
 [19:20:26]  <airlied+ yes but you want the laptop to work for longer than 2 hrs.
 [19:20:32]  <marcheu> stillunknown: ah nv50 ?
 [19:20:33]  <airlied^ there is a market..
 [19:20:37]  <marcheu> stillunknown: we have it otherwise..
 [19:20:40]  <airlied> otherwise people woudln't seel em.
 [19:20:41]  <stillunknown> marcheu: nv40 too
 [19:20:50]  <marcheu> airlied: a market for laptops that are too big to carry ? :)
 [19:20:57]  <mjg59> stillunknown: nvclock seems to work on nv40?
 [19:21:06]  <airlied> marcheu: there are a bunch of new ones coming out.
 [19:21:15]  <marcheu> sad
 [19:21:20]  <stillunknown> mjg59: maybe the fun starts for 7xxx, i forgot
 [19:21:34]  <mjg59> airlied: Yeah, but people also think that reducing the CPU frequency will save them power
 [19:21:45]  <stillunknown> It's just that gpu clocks are a lot more magic than video clocks.
 [19:21:45]  <marcheu> nope works on all nv40, it just have some loose ends on all cards
 [19:21:48]  <mjg59> Dell appear to have put a button on this machine to do precisely that
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[19:22:39]  <malc0> mjg59: nvclock just does gpu pll iirc, which is easy and we can do fine. the mem pll is a bit harder
 [19:22:48]  <marcheu+ well with a gpu that's not the case... issue being that a higher clocked GPU will redraw the same thing 10 times where the low clock will redraw only 2 or 3 times
 [19:23:25]  <mjg59> malc0: It seemed to do both last time I checked
 [19:23:35]  <marcheu+ I don't think we're touching mem pll... or you explain me how to fix all bandwidth issues first :)
 [19:23:49]  <mjg59+ Though maybe I'm confised :)
 [19:23:54]  <marcheu^ yup works fine for both, again loose ends... like too high/low clocks
 [19:24:04]  <marcheu> and sometimes things going berserk
 [19:24:09]  <mjg59^ Yeah, the lack of the runtime idle shutdown functionality on GPUs makes it a quite different problem
 [19:24:25]  <malc0+ sure, so the fact that the mem pll is a loose end isn't a problem for this
 [19:24:37]  <airlied> mjg59: we have dynamic clocking it just isn't good enough on its own
 [19:24:58]  <airlied> a cpu doing nothing is doing nothing, a GPU doing nothing is updating a screen
 [19:25:19]  <marcheu> maybe we should have a button on the laptop that makes X send less sceren updates :)
 [19:25:23]  <mjg59> airlied: Yeah, but in an ideal world you could power down everything except the scanout hardware when idle
 [19:25:38]  <airlied> marcheu: well we could drop to 25Mhz refresh on laptop panels
 [19:25:41]  <airlied> when idle
 [19:25:42]  <mjg59> Innovative display controller
 [19:25:52]  <mjg59> airlied: Works for Intel
 [19:25:57]  <mjg59> I should finish off that code
 [19:26:21]  <mjg59> airlied: It does depend on you being able to reclock the LVDS without any screen flicker
 [19:26:32]  <mjg59> On Intel you can do that with the post dividers
 [19:26:56]  <marcheu> actually I think it's ok to compute the arbitration bandwidth, we just need to recompute it on the fly
 [19:27:29]  <marcheu> and upclock again if someone uses the overlay :)
 [19:28:01]  * mjg59 wonders what effect compiz will have on this
 [19:28:31]  <marcheu> yup, at least on nvidia binary drivers compiz puts the card in 3D mode with battery drainage
 [19:28:55]  <marcheu> but tracking "how much is the fifo trailing" might workaround this
 [19:29:20]  <marcheu> now the fifo could be stuck because of some slow DMA transfers, but hey we can't be perfect
 [19:32:47]  <marcheu> also another question I had is do we have only "high" and "low" settings or do we go for more...
 [19:34:34]  <mjg59^ tbh, I suspect high and low would probably do it
 [19:35:15]  <mjg59> But I'd be kind of interested in whether separate control of the gpu and memory would be worthwile (or even practical)
 [19:35:44]  <mjg59> My experiments suggested that some 2D operations are dependent on the GPU clock more than the memory, while others were the reverse...
 [19:37:54]  <marcheu^ IME 2D operations depend on DMA transfer speed 1st, then memory speed 2nd
 [19:38:15]  <mjg59^ Heh. This was playing with x11perf
 [19:38:25]  <marcheu> and GPU clock is mostly irrelevent as long as it's not too low
 [19:38:28]  <mjg59> So not necessarily especially real world
 [19:38:58]  <marcheu> yeah I played with nouveau/EXA/gtkperf
 [19:39:15]  <marcheu> probably not any more relevant... but it matches what I'd expect at least :)
 [19:39:56]  <marcheu> actually my university desktop machine is FX 5200 @ 10 mhz GPU and 200 mhz mem
 [19:40:08]  <marcheu> (broken fan)
 [19:40:19]  <stillunknown> performance scales with gpu speed, but too low a gpu speed and you get really bottlenecke
 [19:40:23]  <stillunknown> *bottlenecked
 [19:40:35]  <marcheu^ well 10mhz with XAA goes pretty far in my case
 [19:40:48]  <marcheu> touching mem results in slowdowns there, too
 [19:40:57]  <stillunknown> That's because you're doing very little with the gpu.
 [19:41:07]  <mjg59^ For the common 2D case, that's fine
 [19:41:17]  <marcheu> I'm doing stuff with the GPU, but really GPU clock is relevant when you have huge shaders, not some blits & alpha blends
 [19:42:46]  <stillunknown> I did some tests with my 6600gt, and i needed 150 Mhz gpu clock, otherwise performance dropped noticably.
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[19:43:26]  <marcheu> anyway, back on topic, I think it's fine to have high/low for now
 [19:43:44]  <stillunknown> A modern low end card needs high gpu clocks as well to overcome the lack of pretty much everything in great numbers.
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[19:47:40]  <stillunknown> marcheu: Ideally these would not be fixed limits.
 [19:48:20]  <stillunknown> But dynamic based on the number of shaders and other things.
 [19:48:40]  <marcheu> "number of shaders" ? how is this a relevant metric ?
 [19:49:00]  <stillunknown> high end cards function much better at lower clock frequencies
 [19:49:27]  <marcheu> and how is this a relevant metric ?
 [19:49:41]  <stillunknown> You don't want to reduce speed too far.
 [19:50:23]  <marcheu> and how is this a relevant metric ?
 [19:51:25]  <stillunknown> Cards that have more shaders tend to function better at lower clock speeds, their default clock speeds tend to reflect this.
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[19:51:46]  <stillunknown> Ofcource you can also use the performance levels in the bios.
 [19:53:08]  <stillunknown> Although those (eg more than one) only come with high end cards.
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[23:30:48]  <benjsc_> daniels: perhaps once annarchy is all back we could make use of those other 2 machines in x.org which are turned off - ie for some redundacy perhaps :)
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----- [2008-08-28] -----
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[00:10:35]  * z3ro goes to pass out now, and probably wake up at the wrong time... anyway, later.
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[00:32:50]  <agd5f> z3ro: you can find out the chip and i2c address of the thermal chip in the powerplay tables.  it's already ion my powerplay tree.  all you need to do is write a driver for the chip
 [00:33:12]  <agd5f> they are common thermal chips with datasheets available
 [00:35:32]  <airlied> more than likely the kernel has a driver already..
 [00:35:44]  <airlied> lm_sensors has a lot of i2c drivers.
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[03:21:05]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:44:44]  ***  benjsc_ has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to Annarchy is now back to normal.
[03:45:31]  ***  benjsc_ has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to Annarchy is now back to normal  End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 when you all start behaving yourselves | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
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[03:59:48]  * whot bows before benjsc
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[05:30:10]  <JohnFlux2> I can't find any information on implementing exa support for kdrive
 [05:30:55]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: is it possible to implement exa acceleration with the last released xorg?
 [05:30:59]  <JohnFlux2> for kdrive
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[05:43:01]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux2: Xephyr uses it
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[05:43:44]  <daniels> benjsc: yeah
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[05:57:10]  <daniels> jcristau: ooi, why do you guys run autoreconf at build time now?
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[06:00:09]  <jcristau> mostly i'm tired of keeping the generated stuff in git, and because it happened a few times that someone forgot to run it before uploading a new version, or to run it with patches applied..
 [06:00:18]  <jcristau> harder to make mistakes this way
 [06:02:30]  <jcristau> daniels: but, if there's a reason i shouldn't do that, i'm all ears :)
 [06:03:48]  <daniels> yeah, agreed.  the reason why it isn't generally done (though it seems to be getting ever more popular) is because autotools is subtle and quick to anger, so the slightest change in autotools upstream could cause ftbfses.  also, the m68k people will probably whine, but whatever.
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[06:07:09]  <daniels> hmm, crap.  with people.d.o moving from gluck to ravel, i'm going to lose p.d.o/~daniels, because i can't log in anywhere to move it.
 [06:08:42]  <jcristau> you could get your key back in the keyring, move it, and resign again
 [06:09:05]  <daniels> heh
 [06:09:22]  <jcristau> or not resign, and join the xsf! :)
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[06:11:44]  <daniels> good idea! but no, thanks.
 [06:14:18]  <JohnFlux2> there is no talks at all planed for the XDS ?
 [06:14:21]  <JohnFlux2> are
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[06:19:48]  <Dr_Jakob> JohnFlux2: furthest down the page.
 [06:20:38]  <JohnFlux2^ where?
 [06:21:02]  <Dr_Jakob^ http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Program
 [06:21:25]  <JohnFlux2> right - and it's completely empty
 [06:21:37]  <Dr_Jakob^ down the page
 [06:21:56]  <daniels> yeah, there's at least four
 [06:21:57]  <JohnFlux2> Dr_Jakob: I saw that, but I don't think that's going to be good to enough for the company
 [06:22:01]  <JohnFlux2> I need to justify going
 [06:22:02]  <daniels> (PLEASE SUBMIT MORE)
 [06:22:18]  <JohnFlux2> if there's no official relevant talks, I can't go
[06:23:09]  <daniels> okay, so find the embedded/consumer (not me, sadly) and/or 3d people and squeeze them :)
 [06:25:16]  <Dr_Jakob> There I signed myself and TG for two talks.
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[06:48:48]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: heh, gotta be brand-compliant
 [06:49:10]  <Dr_Jakob^ indeed
 [06:59:30]  <Dr_Jakob> I would have gotten marketing on my if I didn't change it :-)
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[09:19:14]  <JohnFlux2> how do I check out the xorg using git?
 [09:19:32]  <JohnFlux2> git clone http://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/util/macros xorg/util/macros
 [09:19:41]  <JohnFlux2> this gives the error:  Initialized empty Git repository in /home/john.tapsell/shared/fd.o/xorg/util/macros/.git/
 [09:20:02]  <JohnFlux2> looking via the web, there is a directory  macros.git   rather than  macros/.git
 [09:20:08]  <JohnFlux2> did something change perhaps?
 [09:20:31]  <whot^ git:// works
 [09:20:56]  <daniels> bear in mind 'initialized empty git repository' isn't an error
 [09:20:59]  <JohnFlux2> whot: stupid company blocks git://
 [09:21:07]  <daniels> try checking out macros.git instead of just macros
 [09:21:14]  <daniels> i.e. git clone http://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/util/macros.git xorg/util/macros
 [09:21:36]  <JohnFlux2> that seems to work
 [09:21:38]  <JohnFlux2> hmm
 [09:21:49]  <JohnFlux2> did something change in your configuration maybe?
 [09:22:03]  <JohnFlux2> i'm sure these instructions used to work
 [09:22:04]  <daniels> nope, just http checkouts are crap and always have been
 [09:22:09]  <JohnFlux2^ :-)
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[10:09:04]  <JohnFlux2> anyone use jhbuild for building xorg?
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[10:25:55]  <JohnFlux2> could you theoretically get xrender to use opengl ? :)
 [10:26:32]  <Dr_Jakob^ glitz
 [10:26:36]  <Dr_Jakob> glucose
 [10:28:18]  <ajax> you can implement it in terms of gl, sure.
 [10:28:27]  <ajax> with only mild contortion!
 [10:28:55]  <JohnFlux2^ so, why isn't that done instead? :)
 [10:29:09]  <JohnFlux2> drop all the driver-specific 2D code and just use opengl for everything :-)
 [10:29:25]  <ajax> because the existing implementations of same a) don't work b) cover even less hardware
 [10:29:26]  <JohnFlux2> then graphic cards company only have to support accelerated opengl and not worry about anything else
 [10:29:33]  <JohnFlux2> hmm
 [10:29:40]  <ajax> trust me, this is well tread ground by now
 [10:30:05]  <JohnFlux2^ yeah - just having fun thinking about it
 [10:30:20]  <JohnFlux2> btw, with indirect rendering (non-dri opengl)
 [10:30:24]  <JohnFlux2> what part of it makes it slow?
 [10:30:34]  <JohnFlux2> is it the marshelling of the requests, or something else?
 [10:31:28]  <ajax> mostly textures
 [10:31:43]  <ajax> rather than uploading them straight to the hardware, you have to memcpy them to the server, which then uploads them.
 [10:32:04]  <JohnFlux2> which is the part that aiglx tries to accelerate?
 [10:32:08]  <JohnFlux2> accelerated indirect flx
 [10:32:09]  <JohnFlux2> glx
 [10:32:34]  <ajax> all of it?
 [10:32:45]  <ajax> "which part" isn't really a sensible question
 [10:33:19]  <JohnFlux2> 'which' referring to uploading textures to the hardware directly :-)
 [10:33:39]  <JohnFlux2> rephrasing...   does aiglx accelerate uploading textures?
 [10:33:45]  <MrCooper^ 'accelerated' as in 'hardware rendering' as opposed to 'software rendering'
 [10:33:56]  <MrCooper> AIGLX can't do anything about the protocol
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[10:39:35]  <MrCooper> hmm, I wonder if JohnFlux2 has me on /ignore or something...
 [10:40:11]  <stillunknown> I doubt it.
 [10:40:12]  <ajax> maybe he's just thinking?
 [10:40:32]  <MrCooper> it's been a while since he acknowledged anything I said to him
 [10:40:44]  <MrCooper> kind of like talking to a wall
 [10:41:35]  <stillunknown> It would be odd if JohnFlux2 has MrCooper on ignore.
 [10:41:48]  <JohnFlux2> MrCooper: sorry man
 [10:41:54]  * JohnFlux2 hugs MrCooper
 [10:42:33]  <JohnFlux2> MrCooper: I tend to sit and think about it, not realising that it can appear as ignoring :-)
 [10:42:55]  <MrCooper> k
 [10:43:54]  <stillunknown> Is there a special reason why a single drawable can have multiple damage, apart from making the bookkeeping easier?
 [10:44:24]  <MrCooper^ every party interested in damage gets its own record
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[10:45:23]  <MrCooper> otherwise one of them clearing the damage would prevent others from getting it
 [10:47:34]  <stillunknown> I'm wondering if allowing abitrary rendering marker callback's are needed.
 [10:47:48]  <stillunknown> Doing it in the screenrec means it'll only work for the X driver.
 [10:48:10]  <stillunknown> But what about future needs of opengl clients doing rendering and letting the X driver wait.
 [10:50:42]  <MrCooper> hmm yeah, actually I wonder if glXWaitX wouldn't be sufficient with damage reported post operation
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[10:51:35]  <stillunknown> I'm imagining a potentional two way render synchronisation extension.
 [10:52:38]  <stillunknown> Not that i know much about opengl, just don't want to do a crappy change now.
 [10:53:48]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: is glXWaitX a blocking kind of call?
 [10:53:58]  <MrCooper> no
 [10:54:23]  <MrCooper> and there's also glXWaitGL
 [10:56:30]  <MrCooper> see the GLX spec
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[10:59:26]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: I can imagine this would be suboptimal.
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[11:11:30]  <MrCooper> possibly, but is it any worse than a round trip to get a sync ID? What would be optimal, the sync ID being included in the damage event, which is generated post operation?
 [11:13:33]  <stillunknown> It's not a round trip, postop would submit the damage to the driver.
 [11:13:58]  <stillunknown> It's then the driver's responsibility to call the xserver again once rendering is done.
 [11:14:41]  <stillunknown> Meanwhile, the driver has something to base synchronisation on.
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[11:15:21]  <aaronp> MrCooper: glXWaitX isn't sufficient.
 [11:16:01]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: aaronp suggested a new request for getting the sync ID
 [11:16:06]  <MrCooper> aaronp: why not?
 [11:16:25]  <aaronp> Because glXWaitX stall the CPU until the X server has processed all of your requests.
 [11:16:33]  <aaronp> It doesn't guarantee that the hardware is done with said requests.
 [11:16:56]  <aaronp> *stalls
 [11:17:00]  <MrCooper> that's not my understanding of the spec
 [11:17:44]  <MrCooper> 'X rendering calls made prior to glXWaitX are guaranteed to be executed before OpenGL rendering calls made after glXWaitX.'
 [11:18:16]  <aaronp> Hmm.  I'll have to look at how it's implemented.
 [11:19:23]  <aaronp> I remember one of my coworkers who's knowledgable about this stuff telling me it wasn't sufficient, though.
 [11:19:43]  <jg> CosmicPenguin: so what's the state of the shm cursor bug?
 [11:19:44]  <stillunknown> Still, what if you have a client who wants to use a X rendered pixmap.
 [11:19:54]  <aaronp> The spec *does* say that the same result can be achieved by XSync, which definitely does *not* guarantee that the GPU is done.
 [11:19:59]  <stillunknown> You tell it to stall rendering until X is done with everything.
 [11:20:32]  <stillunknown> As oposed to the thing you're interested in.
 [11:21:05]  <CosmicPenguin> jg: patches are in the server
 [11:21:38]  <CosmicPenguin> unfortunately, the patches are accompanied by other patches that break glyph rendering which I fixed in the new RandR 1.2 tree
 [11:21:39]  <MrCooper> aaronp: doesn't XSync use GetImage from a 1x1 pixmap? How does that not guarantee the GPU is done?
 [11:21:51]  <aaronp> No.  IIRC, it uses QueryPointer.
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[11:22:31]  <jg> MrCooper: that would be dumb to do.
 [11:22:35]  <MrCooper> anyway, the spec language above (in particular 'rendering operations') seems pretty clear
 [11:22:53]  <jg> CosmicPenguin: ah, and those aren't ready for prime time?
 [11:23:08]  <CosmicPenguin^ they need eyeballs
 [11:23:15]  <CosmicPenguin> but I think they are pretty close to prime time
 [11:23:19]  <CosmicPenguin> we've gone live wit hworse
 [11:23:25]  <jg> heh.
 [11:23:35]  <stillunknown> aaronp: I still don't get though why post submission report is useful for direct rendering opengl clients.
 [11:23:38]  <aaronp> MrCooper: No it doesn't, it specs it as being the same as XSync, which looks like is uses GetInputFocus.
 [11:23:39]  <CosmicPenguin> But if you are asking me if you should put it in 8.2, I would say no
 [11:24:00]  <CosmicPenguin> jg: I would turn off xshm immediately - unless etoys just becomes absolutely unusable without it
 [11:24:04]  <aaronp> stillunknown: There's no well-defined way to get a pre-submission damage event from a direct-rendering client.
 [11:24:08]  <aaronp> What does that even mean?
 [11:24:32]  <MrCooper^ does it? It says XSync should have the same effect of synchronizing GL and X rendering operations
 [11:24:33]  <jg> CosmicPenguin: IIRC, there was some other issue with that; I'll have to ask m_stone...
 [11:24:39]  <CosmicPenguin> okay
 [11:24:44]  <aaronp> From the X server, a pre-submission damage event means, "if you respond to this event by triggering rendering in X's channel, it will happen after the rendering this event describes."
 [11:24:51]  <aaronp> which clearly doesn't make sense for direct-rendering clients.
 [11:24:59]  <CosmicPenguin> I told dsd to try copying the exa code directly back to the old driver - it should go right over
 [11:25:23]  <CosmicPenguin> that might handle the glyph problem
 [11:25:28]  <jg> I'll check with dsd.
 [11:27:10]  <stillunknown> aaronp: but even then it's not garuanteed to be done with rendering.
 [11:27:24]  <jg> CosmicPenguin: do you happen to know where xscope or equivalent sources can now be found?
 [11:27:29]  <stillunknown> It's only an indication something will happen.
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[11:28:24]  <CosmicPenguin> jg: no idea, sorry
 [11:28:40]  <jg> I've sent mail to keithp, but I suspect he's vacant....
 [11:28:55]  <jg> he used to host a CVS version on his home site.
 [11:28:56]  <aaronp> stillunknown: Oh, right, I meant post-rendering events.
 [11:29:05]  <aaronp> You're right that post-submission is pretty useless.
 [11:31:43]  <stillunknown> I think two damage report functions will be useful.
 [11:32:09]  <stillunknown> damageReportPostSubmit and damageReportPostRender, or damageReportSync and damageReportAsync
 [11:33:30]  <aaronp> Are you talking about solving (4) or (5) in my email?
 [11:34:06]  <stillunknown> primarily 4, but allowing 5 to be implemented on top
 [11:34:51]  <stillunknown> what i would add is a callback to the driver, driver chooses an id, puts in private struct, emits sync marker or whatever
 [11:35:01]  <stillunknown> driver calls back into server
 [11:35:18]  <stillunknown> async notification happens
 [11:35:34]  <aaronp> Yeah
 [11:35:38]  <stillunknown> (this is to facilitate cases where rendering architecture and driver are not the same)
 [11:35:47]  <stillunknown> this id travels with damage
 [11:35:48]  <aaronp> The question is, when does the server decide to call into the driver to schedule the event?
 [11:36:01]  <jg> stillunknown, aaronp: if DRI exposed an XSync counter, that was incremented at appropriate times, it becomes easy to synchronize X protocol and/or get notification in X applications....
 [11:36:03]  <stillunknown> post op
 [11:36:17]  <stillunknown> post submission
 [11:36:34]  <aaronp^ That'll be pretty slow.
 [11:36:50]  <aaronp> I.e. xscreensaver will spam the server with events.
 [11:37:06]  <aaronp> it should work, though.
 [11:37:17]  <stillunknown> you mean the driver will be spammed
 [11:37:20]  <aaronp> and maybe it would be an okay interim solution until we can implement something for (5).
 [11:37:55]  <aaronp> I mean the hardware will generate an interrupt to wake up the X server after every tiny solid fill, blit, and line of text.
 [11:38:27]  <stillunknown> You don't have to garuantee that you deliver the event.
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[11:38:32]  <stillunknown> when it happens
 [11:38:34]  <stillunknown> just asap
 [11:39:12]  <stillunknown> Just use the reference counters.
 [11:39:22]  <stillunknown> And read them somewhere convient.
 [11:39:34]  <jg^ aaronp: note that XSync is designed to support both blocking of X protocol traffic and asynchronous notification as well.
 [11:39:39]  <stillunknown> Interrupt stoms is the last thing you want.
 [11:39:42]  <stillunknown> *storms
 [11:41:01]  <stillunknown> aaronp: maybe something that is done in idle time of the server
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[11:42:34]  <stillunknown> what did you miss?
 [11:43:35]  <aaronp_> I don't know, I missed it.  ;)
 [11:43:42]  <aaronp_> Seriously, WTF AT&T?
 [11:43:52]  <stillunknown> what did i say last?
 [11:44:44]  <aaronp_> 38 #xorg-devel: < stillunknown> You don't have to garuantee that you deliver the event
 [11:44:54]  <stillunknown> when it happens
 [11:44:57]  <stillunknown> just asap
 [11:45:02]  <stillunknown> Just use the reference counters.
 [11:45:05]  <stillunknown> And read them somewhere convient.
 [11:45:09]  <stillunknown> Interrupt stoms is the last thing you want.
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[11:45:27]  <stillunknown> aaronp: maybe something that is done in idle time of the server
 [11:46:07]  <stillunknown> Something you put in a common code path, but with less cost than an interrupt.
 [11:46:08]  <aaronp_> I guess the driver could set a flag in its callback, then actually write the event in the BlockHandler.
 [11:46:42]  <stillunknown> The driver would only have to garuantee a reasonable latency.
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[11:51:12]  <stillunknown> aaronp: the xdriver would have to negiate any such notifications for opengl clients, probably
 [11:51:41]  <stillunknown> (the other way around. letting X wait on opengl)
 [11:54:12]  <aaronp> It already does that: OpenGL client schedules an interrupt, rendering finishes, HW wakes up the X server, X server sends the damage event.
 [11:54:31]  <aaronp> Of course, OpenGL has the luxury of only doing that on a SwapBuffers or glFlush.
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[11:56:45]  <stillunknown> aaronp: Is there some piece of essential information that 4 doesn't give you, but 5 needs?
 [11:58:07]  <aaronp> 4 and 5 are fundamentally different: 4 needs to deliver events as late as possible, while 5 needs to deliver them as early as possible.
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[11:59:27]  <aaronp> 5 is basically the current report-before semantics plus a mechanism for cross-channel HW synchronization without ever stalling the CPU.
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[12:00:53]  <stillunknown> I would still do 5 post submission, because then you know what to let the gpu block on.
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[12:01:13]  <aaronp> That's why I suggested doing something like DamageSubtract that also inserts the sync marker.
 [12:01:58]  <stillunknown> Is it common for the ddx to handle damage for opengl clients, or does that go through damageext?
 [12:02:01]  <aaronp> That gives you the benefit of not having to write a semaphore release after every single rendering operation, plus the benefit of report-before events.
 [12:02:17]  <aaronp> I don't think damageext knows about GLX at all.
 [12:03:13]  <stillunknown> Then i know enough.
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[12:22:29]  <JohnFlux2> http://www.virtuousgeek.org/exa-driver.txt   I'm reading over the exa notes
 [12:22:38]  <JohnFlux2> and it recommends _not_ implementing a scratch
 [12:23:08]  <JohnFlux2> this seems a bit backwards in that it would seem faster to upload text gylphs to a scratch space
 [12:23:27]  <JohnFlux2> than to require continual allocating and deallocating of space for text gylphs
 [12:24:33]  <JohnFlux2> unless internally a signal space is created for glyphs and reused
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[12:31:06]  <anholt> glyphs are in pixmaps now anyway
 [12:33:33]  <jbarnes> heh, forgot that document still existed
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[13:05:49]  <stillunknown> JohnFlux2: i suggest you look at exa.h, it contains notes
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[13:24:17]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: is it on purpose DamageReportRawRegion doesn't actually do anything with the damage?
 [13:28:47]  <stillunknown> Ah, found i found the proto.
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[13:47:57]  <krh> aw
 [13:48:01]  <krh> the gpl thread died
 [13:48:08]  <ajax> tragedy
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[13:49:11]  <mjg59> Yeah, I was expecting that to go on for ages
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[13:51:16]  <anholt> the comedy/message ratio just wasn't high enough
 [13:55:13]  <keithp^ we didn't call you today for our 10:00
 [13:55:18]  <keithp> we assume you're on vacation already
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[14:00:01]  <anholt> keithp: too bad, could have joined.  just about to leave now.
 [14:00:17]  <anholt> any important news?
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[14:07:12]  <ESphynx> hi guys, is there an easy way to figure the lock count for a display from a particular thread?
 [14:07:41]  <ESphynx> XLockDisplay is not returning , but I didn't think the display was locked in any other thread
 [14:15:56]  <ESphynx> dpy->lock->locking_thread is most useful :P
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[14:49:07]  <stillunknown> ajax: You didn't compile test that shm change
 [14:49:13]  <stillunknown> static oid is missing a v
 [14:49:18]  <ajax> meh.
 [14:49:56]  <ajax> the irony is i did, like four times, but then didn't right before i pushed.
 [14:50:26]  <stillunknown> I know.
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[15:51:50]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: ping
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[16:26:32]  <ajax> guh
 [16:26:40]  <ajax> gc clip management is non-obvious.
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[18:41:15]  <MrCooper> ajax: did you check for x11perf -putimage500 -shmput500 performance regressions with EXA?
 [18:42:10]  <MrCooper> when I was writing the previous EXA (Shm)PutImage code, the performance impact of any change tended to be rather unintuitive
 [18:46:38]  <stillunknown^ do you know if it would be bad to always update damage postop, regardless of reportafter (ofcource reporting would happen when asked for)?
 [18:48:27]  <MrCooper> the parts before and in the parentheses seem conflicting
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[19:10:21]  <cjb> server build broke.
 [19:11:00]  <cjb> .. and so did mesa.
 [19:11:10]  <airlied^ two great tastes.
 [19:11:17]  <cjb> http://tinderbox.x.org/builds/2008-08-28-0028/logs/libGL/#build for mesa on sparc
 [19:11:40]  <cjb> http://tinderbox.x.org/builds/2008-08-28-0022/logs/xserver/#build for xserver on ppc
 [19:12:19]  <airlied^ that would be ajax and krh I would think
 [19:12:24]  <cjb> yeah
 [19:12:36]  <MrCooper> the xserver bug has been fixed
 [19:12:52]  <cjb^ ah.  I can't tell because then mesa broke, and we don't build xserver if mesa fails.
 [19:13:39]  <MrCooper> looks like mesa needs to be adapted to the dri2proto changes
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----- [2008-08-29] -----
 [00:21:32]  <vignatti> daniels: ping
 [00:25:41]  <vignatti> as a mentor, you need to complete the final survey of gsoc
 [00:25:48]  <vignatti> there's some instructions here:
 [00:25:54]  <vignatti> http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/final-survey-information---2008
 [00:25:59]  * vignatti -> bed
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[03:15:27]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[03:18:59]  <_bernie> whot: hey, are you there?
 [03:19:09]  <whot> _bernie: I think so.
 [03:19:36]  <_bernie^ hey, I have an evdev question for you
 [03:19:48]  <_bernie> you seem to be in charge of it, at least on fedora
 [03:19:53]  <whot> _bernie: ok. I'm not here ;)
 [03:19:57]  <_bernie> haha
 [03:20:31]  <_bernie> whot: you can't escape: if you don't fix my problem, I'll file it in redhat
 [03:20:34]  <_bernie> 's bz!
 [03:20:45]  <whot> hehe
 [03:22:46]  <whot> _bernie: what's up?
 [03:23:49]  <_bernie^ on the mac, people usually load the mac-hid module which simulates the right and middle mouse buttons by crearing an additional event device which looks like a mouse
 [03:24:15]  <_bernie> since when we switched to X 1.5 with evdev in rawhide, the buttons do not work any more in X
 [03:24:35]  <_bernie> they still work in the console... and I see the device being autoconfigured in the X log...
 [03:25:14]  <_bernie> the only difference with a regular mouse seems to be that the device only has buttons, and no axes.
 [03:26:20]  <whot> _bernie: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=459018
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[03:50:59]  <johnflux> on wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXA , it says EXA is considered a stopgap measure to improve X.Org Server performance before the server is moved entirely to OpenGL
 [03:51:12]  <johnflux> is this correct? :)
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[03:51:33]  <JohnFlux> or rather, would you still agree with it
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[04:03:25]  <_bernie> whot: your comment to rh#469018 contains an irrelevant link!
 [04:05:47]  <whot> _bernie: thx. fixed
 [04:08:50]  <JohnFlux> anyone use jhbuild for building xorg?
 [04:09:01]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to work out the best way to cross-compile x
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[04:09:42]  <JohnFlux> jhbuild looks pretty nice, but I can't yet work out how to cross-compile with it
 [04:11:33]  <_bernie> whot: when you say it's been fixed upstream, do you mean in the linux kernel?
 [04:12:01]  <_bernie> sorry, disregard the above question... I misread what you said
 [04:12:46]  <_bernie> do you think it might have to be fixed somehow in the kernel?
 [04:14:13]  <whot> _bernie: correct
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[04:19:46]  <_bernie> whot: so, we need to find a way for the evdev device to keep forwarding events to the mac-hid thing even after it's being grabbed. is that right?
 [04:20:33]  <_bernie> if nobody is looking into it, I might find some time one of these days...
 [04:22:03]  <whot> _bernie: you'd need a two-stage grab in the kernel. one for "grab everything", one for "just don't send to tty"
 [04:24:22]  <MrCooper> actually, is 'grab everything' even useful for anything? :)
 [04:25:22]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: the 'stopgap measure' has been working for several years, and 'the goal' doesn't seem anywhere near
 [04:26:06]  <whot> _bernie: jcristau posted this link http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0808.2/0519.html
 [04:26:16]  <whot> _ gotta go now
 [04:26:45]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: do you cross-compile? :-D
 [04:26:59]  <MrCooper> nope
 [04:27:53]  <whot^ rfkill I think. not sure though, mjg59 knows more about that
 [04:28:10]  <whot> (grab everything is useful for rfkill)
 [04:28:20]  <MrCooper> k
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[05:27:00]  <JohnFlux> gitweb seems to be down
 [05:29:44]  <JohnFlux> excellent, back up now :-)
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[05:34:16]  <JohnFlux> I have some changes for xorg/util/modular/xorg.modules     (it describes the  dependency tree for jhbuild)
 [05:34:25]  <JohnFlux> some dependencies aren't listed
 [05:35:07]  <daniels> vignatti: i did the final survey last night :)
 [05:36:59]  <JohnFlux> dri2.c:125: error: onnxDRI2ConnectReplyigh has no member named r="sareaHandleome
 [05:37:05]  <JohnFlux> is this my fault? ;-)
 [05:37:12]  <JohnFlux> in mesa/src/glx/x11
 [05:44:58]  <JohnFlux> ajax: you modified xorg.modules  last - can I confirm that xorg.modules should be fixed to add libXt libXmu and libXi to the dependancies of libGL
 [05:45:25]  <JohnFlux> it's what libGL configure says it requires, but just checking that I'm doing this correctly
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[05:48:06]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: no, xserver and mesa haven't been adapted to the latest dri2proto changes
 [05:50:19]  <JohnFlux^ is it something that will be fixed today, or within a week, or more long term or something?
 [05:51:07]  <JohnFlux> I should checkout an old dri2proto revision to fix this?
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[05:51:28]  <MrCooper> shouldn't take long I think, but in the meantime you can just revert your dri2proto to before the latest change
 [05:52:02]  <MrCooper> or disable DRI2 in the xserver build, not sure that's easily doable in mesa though
 [05:56:58]  <fifthbro> JonhFlux: Add --disable-dri2 to the jhbuild autogenargs
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[06:39:12]  <JohnFlux> exaOffscreenAlloc has a parameter 'locked' - what does this do?
 [06:39:29]  <JohnFlux> the comment says that when it's enabled, it shouldn't be freed unless told to explicitly
 [06:39:53]  <JohnFlux> does that mean the driver can free the memory without being told explicitly if locked is false?
 [06:40:21]  <stillunknown> It can migrate things into normal ram.
 [06:42:11]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: the EXA core offscreen code can evict offscreen areas at any time (calling the save callback before) when locked isn't set
 [06:42:53]  <tjaalton^ so, my intel only has ~12MB's of offscreen pixmap memory.. is there any way to increase that? some operations in compiz are slow, like changing the desktop
 [06:43:08]  <MrCooper> gratuitous use of locked areas will lead to offscreen memory fragmentation
 [06:43:23]  <MrCooper> tjaalton: fix the driver :)
 [06:43:58]  <tjaalton^ ok, so I'll just wait for the New stuff to settle :)
 [06:44:30]  <MrCooper> it shouldn't be hard to make the driver reserve more offscreen memory
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[06:44:59]  <tjaalton> airlied said that it has a fixed valu of 3*fb
 [06:44:59]  <MrCooper> à la the radeon driver Option "FBTexPercent"
 [06:45:03]  <tjaalton> value
 [06:45:32]  <MrCooper> so that would need to be changed to some value larger than 3*fb
 [06:46:32]  <tjaalton> ok.. I can play with that
 [06:47:04]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: so is that something that I should deal with, when writing exa accelerating for a particular device?
 [06:47:08]  <JohnFlux> acceleration
 [06:47:25]  <MrCooper> deal with what?
 [06:47:50]  <JohnFlux^ evicting offscreen pixmaps
 [06:48:34]  <JohnFlux> I'm implementing the function hook exaOffscreenAlloc  and wondering what to do with the locked parameter
 [06:48:53]  <JohnFlux> can I safely just ignore it?
 [06:49:21]  <MrCooper> you don't need to, if you just set the EXA_OFFSCREEN_PIXMAPS flag for EXA initialization, the core will handle pixmaps on its own
 [06:50:07]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: that's a core function, not a driver hook you implement
 [06:51:16]  <JohnFlux^ oh, so it is.  so what's the driver hook that I implement to allocate the offscreen memory?
 [06:51:27]  <MrCooper> the driver hooks are in ExaDriverRec
 [06:51:50]  <MrCooper> there's no such driver hook, you just define the offscreen memory area
 [06:52:07]  <MrCooper> or you can choose to allocate pixmap memory yourself in the first place
 [06:52:36]  <JohnFlux^ what about for shared memory systems?
 [06:52:43]  <JohnFlux> i don't have a fixed offscreen memory area
 [06:53:41]  <MrCooper> then you may want/need to implement the Create/DestroyPixmap, ModifyPixmapHeader and PixmapIsOffscreen hooks
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[06:54:28]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: ah, yeah that does sound like what I want indeed
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[06:55:48]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: basically I think I can get away with _all_ pixmaps being offscreen
 [06:56:08]  <MrCooper> yeah, that tends to be the case when the driver allocates pixmap memory
 [06:56:28]  <JohnFlux^ just to confirm, a pixmap on the screen counts as 'offscreen' right? :)
 [06:56:37]  <JohnFlux> offscreen == video memory
 [06:56:45]  <stillunknown> yes
 [06:57:03]  <MrCooper> 'offscreen' as in 'accessible by the accelerator'
 [06:57:14]  <JohnFlux> right
 [06:58:16]  <JohnFlux> is it recommended to implement UploadToScratch or not?
 [06:58:25]  <JohnFlux> one article says that I shouldn't, another says that I should
 [06:58:48]  <JohnFlux> (assuming i implement Create/DestroyPixmap etc hooks)
 [06:59:26]  <stillunknown> UploadToScratch needs to die, so no
 [06:59:34]  <stillunknown> I'm surprised it still exists.
 [06:59:38]  <MrCooper> it's only used if one of the pixmaps involved in a Composite operation isn't offscreen in the first place
 [06:59:53]  <JohnFlux> are glyphs handled fairly smartly?
 [07:00:06]  <JohnFlux> it wouldn't be efficient to create and destroy pixmap memory for every single letter
 [07:00:26]  <MrCooper> yes, there's a single glyph cache pixmap
 [07:00:26]  <JohnFlux> it would be more efficient to use a single allocated memory (i.e. scratch) for gylphs, no?
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[07:00:52]  <stillunknown> Just implement UploadToScreen instead of UploadToScratch
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[07:01:51]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: are there still drivers using UploadToScratch?
 [07:02:03]  <MrCooper> no idea
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[07:31:28]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: even disabling dri2  (with --disable-dri2)  it still get a compile error in src/glx/x11/dri2.c
[07:31:44]  <JohnFlux> i don't know why it's trying to compile dri2.c  though
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[08:31:24]  ***  Log file opened 2008-08-29T09:27 -----
[09:27:44]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: Annarchy is now back to normal  End-user questions: #xorg | xserver 1.5 when you all start behaving yourselves | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-) | Blur fascists since 2000 | XDS2008: Sep 3rd-5th, Edinburgh Zoo -- if you aren't coming, why not?.
[09:27:44]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[09:27:44]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aaronp_ agd5f aggelos ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc_away anderco b0le bartman Batchy Battousai bbyer bedahr benjsc bgoglin bobbens bryce buggs caro[vtorri] cavassin cbrake cjb coling CP|home crossbuilder ctyler cworth dagb daniels darktama davej dberkholz diegoviola Dodji_ dr-xorg Dr_Jakob drago01 DrNick ds dwmw2 egbert emmes erikg ESphynx fcarrijo fdd fifthbro fijnman geaaru glisse gmansi gordon_jin GuentherB gustaf1 hachi halfline Herman hw__ Ingmar jbarnes jcristau jg JohnFlux jwelsh keithp kem kylem libv londo Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu math_b Mercury mjg59 mmc mpr MrCooper ndim Neurergus nha ohsix onestone Ori_B osiris__ otavio PauloZanoni pcpa pete__c Plagman_ psyquark Q-FUNK rnoland rvalles sangu soren sputnik66 stringfellow stukreit t4bz TBBle tcoppi tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos vignatti Wallbraker wereHamster whot wien z3ro Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[09:53:44]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: yeah, that's a bug
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[10:04:59]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: I had a quick look but I couldn't see any obvious way to add those files in conditionally in the makefile
 [10:05:29]  <JohnFlux> to prevent it from attempting to compile dri2.c if disable-dri2 is set
 [10:05:45]  <JohnFlux> any hints? :-)
 [10:06:07]  <MrCooper> revert the last dri2proto change?
 [10:06:31]  <JohnFlux> how do I do that in git?  :-)  I've never used git before heh
 [10:06:57]  <MrCooper> git checkout -b temp-branch HEAD^
 [10:08:04]  <JohnFlux> HEAD^  means one revision before HEAD right?
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[10:09:50]  <MrCooper> right
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[10:16:55]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: you wouldn't happen to know how to specify the revision with jhbuild would you? :)
 [10:17:19]  <MrCooper> nope
 [10:19:02]  <ajax^ i checked for performance regressions with Xvfb and Xephyr (in both normal and fakexa), didn't see anything.
 [10:19:27]  <MrCooper> how about a real driver on real hardware? :)
 [10:20:04]  <ajax> the only exaful real machine i've got handy is an r500 that's hitting the blitter pitch limit
 [10:20:20]  <ajax> so any results there would probably not be meaningful
 [10:22:54]  <ajax> (it might have regressed; if that's the price paid for correctness, so be it)
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[10:23:52]  <JohnFlux> ajax: what are you using to test performance?
 [10:24:25]  <ajax> x11perf -shmput{10,100,500} for this case
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[10:28:32]  <stillunknown> MrCooper ajax: shmput500 at least beats putimage500
 [10:29:00]  <ajax> one would hope so, since it's two fewer memcpys
 [10:29:16]  <MrCooper> heh, I was about to write 'one would hope so'
 [10:29:33]  <stillunknown> for 10, putimage is the winner
 [10:29:56]  <MrCooper> what would be interesting though would be comparing -shmput500 before and after ajax's change
 [10:30:44]  <stillunknown> shmput100 is the winner
 [10:31:18]  <ajax> yeah, there's a cache warmth effect
 [10:31:19]  <stillunknown> That's not so fast to test.
 [10:32:53]  <stillunknown> I might note that the treshold for using scatter gather instead of hostdata transfers is 16 KiB.
 [10:33:40]  <stillunknown> I don't know what the depth of the test images are.
 [10:33:42]  <JohnFlux> does Kristian Hregsberg come on irc?
 [10:33:46]  <daniels^ yes, krh
 [10:33:57]  <JohnFlux^ thanks
 [10:34:01]  <daniels> np
 [10:34:09]  <ajax> he also sits about eight feet behind me
 [10:34:35]  <daniels> wow, we have an ajax irc gateway
 [10:34:38]  <daniels> ha ha ha ha ha
 [10:34:39]  <daniels> ha ha ha
 [10:34:40]  <daniels> ha ha
 [10:34:41]  <daniels> ha.
 [10:34:44]  <daniels> i'll get my coat.
 [10:34:45]  <ajax> /kickban
 [10:35:21]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: you said something about DamageDamageRegion needing to be called before swap buffers in the glx code, where precisely is that?
 [10:36:49]  <MrCooper^ see mesa commit 3a94b25538c647df965a93cd7734b841257ef203
 [10:37:24]  <MrCooper> it should also call PostOp afterwards
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[10:38:59]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: exa seems to function fine without ExaDoDamage, or whatever the name of that thing is.
 [10:39:18]  <JohnFlux> ajax: could you ask him if he has any ideas why I get a build faillure on dri2.c  even though I pass --disable-dri2 to autogen.sh :-)
 [10:39:52]  <stillunknown> ExaDamageReport i meant
 [10:40:02]  <MrCooper^ ExaDamageReport? Nope, it's needed e.g. when starting a compositing manager
 [10:40:41]  <MrCooper> otherwise DamageDamageRegion tricks the migration logic into thinking stale bits are valid
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[10:41:07]  <stillunknown> I'm running xcompmgr, doesn't that count?
 [10:42:47]  <MrCooper^ start an xterm on a naked X server and then run compiz, not sure xcompmgr will reproduce as reliably
 [10:42:55]  <dberkholz> ajax: could you kick out a new RC so that people can have working mesa between now and 1.5 final?
 [10:44:31]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: i can't test that, but i do wonder, how does DamageDamageRegion (without postop) fool the migration logic?
 [10:45:26]  <MrCooper> ah, without PostOp (and if pending damage gets replaced instead of accumulated) it shouldn't
 [10:45:46]  <stillunknown> Pending damage is flushed postop.
 [10:46:22]  <MrCooper> that could still result in bogus damage with a series of DamageDamageRegion followed by PostOp
 [10:47:22]  <stillunknown> Then someone is not calling postop when he should.
 [10:47:38]  <MrCooper> doesn't matter
 [10:47:44]  <stillunknown> Bugs should be fixed. not worked around.
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[10:48:12]  <MrCooper> PostOp will turn all pending damage into damage, regardless of whether a rendering operation was involved
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[10:48:51]  <MrCooper> I didn't say there was a bug we should work around, did I
 [10:49:35]  <stillunknown> Your current solution also puts all pendingDamage into damage.
 [10:49:49]  <MrCooper> define 'current solution'
 [10:49:58]  <stillunknown> ExaDamageReport
 [10:50:30]  <MrCooper> pExaPixmap->pendingDamage
 [10:51:09]  <MrCooper> ah, I think I get what you mean
 [10:51:25]  <MrCooper> yeah, we're slowly discovering how things are broken and need to be fixed...
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[10:53:22]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: i have a reasonable patch already, just need to do some minor cleanup and fixup the glx stuff.
 [10:53:37]  <stillunknown> (note: i can't test that glx code)
 [11:00:02]  <krh> MrCooper: not coming to xds?
 [11:00:15]  <MrCooper^ unfortunately not
 [11:00:28]  <krh> that's a shame
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[11:02:28]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: How did you came to be the exa maintainer (or at least a considerable contributer)?
 [11:02:57]  <MrCooper> scratching my own itch
 [11:03:04]  <stillunknown> (away)
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[11:42:42]  <vignatti> daniels: so sad that you're not going to xds dude
 [11:43:05]  <daniels^ yeah, sucks :( just busy at work ... oh well
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[11:46:07]  <vignatti> daniels: but the conference is part of your work
 [11:46:13]  <vignatti> can't you justify for it? :)
 [11:47:08]  <daniels> i've spent the last few weeks trying, but it's a bit insane over here right now
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[11:48:53]  <vignatti> daniels: it's a shame
 [11:49:05]  <vignatti> btw, thanks for complete gsoc final survey
 [11:50:13]  <daniels> yeah, would really have liked to come, but in the end i only managed to convince two levels of management instead of the required four ... ah well
 [11:50:16]  <daniels> and no problem :)
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[11:54:46]  <vignatti> daniels: right now I'm syncronizing my gsoc work with master branch here
 [11:55:01]  <vignatti> I would love to show this all to you there in the conference, giving a rough summary, et
 [11:55:48]  <vignatti> probably I'll bother whot for a while there and show my things asking his thoughts about it
 [11:56:58]  <vignatti> daniels: anyway, I'll let you informed
 [11:58:04]  <daniels> well, there's more than enough room in the schedule for whatever you want to present ;)
 [11:58:08]  <daniels> cool
 [11:58:33]  <daniels> i really shold sit down and review this properly, but whot would be even more competent to discuss the issues than me, so if you can snare him over a beer or caipirinha there, that'd probably be even more useufl.
 [11:58:59]  <vignatti> heh sure
 [11:59:05]  <cjb> krh: did you seen the dri2 mesa breakage?
 [11:59:21]  <vignatti> definitely I'll bring another cachaVPa :)
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[11:59:47]  <krh> cjb: no
 [12:00:14]  <daniels> vignatti: i'd suggest giving it to whot, as he's been hacking on all the input stuff i haven't this year ...
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[12:08:29]  <krh> cjb: oh you mean the dri2proto change?
 [12:08:59]  <cjb^ which causes mesa to fail to build, yeah.
 [12:10:53]  <krh> ok
 [12:11:03]  <krh> why don't I push the corresponding mesa changes then...
 [12:11:21]  <MrCooper> and xserver
 [12:11:28]  <krh> yeah
 [12:13:31]  <krh> that too
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[12:38:38]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: this is my patch so far http://rafb.net/p/GtQBXS74.html , if you have any specific thoughts or concerns
 [12:48:45]  <MrCooper> hmm, getting a bit convoluted, might make sense to split it up for the separate issues
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[12:56:11]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: the triggers are the same, how would you seperate it?
 [12:56:35]  <MrCooper> Fix PostOp first, then add the new stuff
 [12:56:58]  <stillunknown> Oh, you mean two seperate patches.
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[12:58:16]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: btw, there was an incosistency in damage report
 [12:58:43]  <stillunknown> One of the levels didn't actually modify the damage, the raw report one.
 [12:58:54]  <stillunknown> The protocol said nothing about this as far as i can tell.
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[13:00:12]  <MrCooper> sounds like yet another issue/patch :)
 [13:00:53]  <stillunknown> Exa was even abusing this i must say.
 [13:01:00]  <stillunknown> So i can't seperate the two.
 [13:03:17]  <stillunknown> There is still the question of leaving DamageDamageRegion intact or not.
 [13:03:39]  <MrCooper> EXA 'abused' what how?
 [13:04:03]  <stillunknown> It expected to be able to modify damage itself.
 [13:04:41]  <stillunknown> Instead of it happening unconditionally.
 [13:05:46]  <MrCooper> I'm not following
 [13:06:16]  <stillunknown> All other modes of reporting set the damage before calling the report function.
 [13:06:27]  <stillunknown> Only raw report did not do this.
 [13:07:12]  <stillunknown> ExaReportDamage conditionally sets the damage.
 [13:08:15]  <MrCooper> so the patch that fixes DamageReportRawRegion (if it's really a bug) needs to be after the one that removes ExaReportDamage
 [13:08:44]  <stillunknown> At the same time, or infinitely close together.
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[13:09:36]  <MrCooper> huh? DamageReportRawRegion was working mostly fine before ExaReportDamage was added
 [13:10:26]  <stillunknown> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/miext/damage/damage.c
 [13:10:29]  <stillunknown> line 132
 [13:10:44]  <stillunknown> notice it does not do REGION_UNION like all the others
 [13:12:03]  <MrCooper> no, it calls the damageReport hook
 [13:12:34]  <stillunknown> Yes, but nowhere in the protocol can i find that it's supposed to be like that.
 [13:13:20]  <stillunknown> All the others do set pDamage->damage.
 [13:15:08]  <stillunknown> After all, raw only indicates how the damage should be reported.
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[13:17:21]  <MrCooper> I don't know about that, but I know it's orthogonal to the changes removing ExaDamageReport; EXA used DamageReportNone before it was added
 [13:17:39]  <stillunknown> ReportNone is fine
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[13:18:21]  <MrCooper> well, not orthogonal but the patch dependency I mentioned before
 [13:18:35]  <stillunknown> Point taken.
 [13:18:43]  <stillunknown> But still, it's unusual.
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[13:20:36]  <stillunknown> keithp: ping
 [13:29:57]  <pcpa> what is the plan to fix the occurrences of XF86_VERSION_CURRENT in the sources?
 [13:30:08]  <pcpa> $ pwd
 [13:30:09]  <pcpa> /home/paulo/anongit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver
 [13:30:13]  <pcpa> $ grep XF86_VERSION_CURRENT */src/*.{c,h} | wc -l
 [13:30:13]  <pcpa> 77
 [13:30:21]  <krh^ git grep
 [13:30:44]  <pcpa^ better :-)
 [13:31:01]  <krh> oh, I guess that doesn't work if you're grepping across repos
 [13:31:22]  <pcpa> but it was implicitly defined in xf86Version.h, now a lot of drivers don't compile
 [13:32:07]  <ajax> there shouldn't be any of that left
 [13:32:22]  <jcristau> pcpa: tinderbox doesn't show that?
 [13:32:37]  <jcristau> they've been fixed (by whot and ajax, iirc)
 [13:34:31]  <pcpa> Running git pull in some of those directories show the problem.
 [13:35:10]  <pcpa> this should not be the case of tinderbox, but I had problems before attempting to build on a computer with 1.4.x sdk and git master on a /opt/... just in case...
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[13:45:51]  <pcpa> I will try to push a merge of siliconmotion driver today (merge with smi sources and the smi501 repository from Alex), by spliting commits, the first one is basically:
 [13:45:57]  <pcpa> +#ifdef XF86_VERSION_CURRENT
 [13:45:57]  <pcpa> +#  if XF86_VERSION_CURRENT < XF86_VERSION_NUMERIC(4,3,99,0,0)
 [13:45:57]  <pcpa> +#    define REGION_EQUAL(pScreen, r1, r2)      RegionsEqual(r1, r2))
 [13:45:57]  <pcpa> +#  endif
 [13:45:57]  <pcpa> +#endif
 [13:46:09]  <pcpa> just to not change code semantics...
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[15:19:04]  <ajax> there's a certain joy in building software on a machine that you know has a kernel memory leak but that you haven't got a fix for
 [15:19:36]  <ajax> you can sit there with 'watch grep kmalloc /proc/slabinfo' in a terminal window and see your impending doom
 [15:22:29]  <ds> that's what it feels like using X some times...
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[15:22:45]  <ds> (sorry, it was just too easy)
 [15:23:12]  <ajax> sometimes?
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[15:27:42]  <stillunknown> ajax: No luck finding the leak?
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[16:07:24]  <ajax> can we stop releasing .gz files now?
 [16:09:27]  <drago01> just do .. nobody will complain
 [16:09:32]  <jcristau> i might
 [16:10:00]  <ajax> do you do .gz for source packages because m68k is too lame?
 [16:10:33]  <jcristau> we do .gz for source packages for no good reason, afaik
 [16:10:53]  <ajax> weird.
 [16:11:26]  <ajax> technically we don't insist on any particular format for sources, but rpm directly knows about bz2 since like rhl7
 [16:11:43]  <daniels> debian does gzip for source packages because bzip2 didn't exist at the time.
 [16:12:12]  <daniels> people can start using bzip2 now, though.  it got into dpkg a while ago, though you have to wait until the dpkg released in stable supports something before you start using it.  upgrades and all that.
 [16:12:37]  <daniels> so yeah, nothing stopping anyone from using bz2 source packages now, unless there's something i'm missing.
 [16:12:51]  <jcristau> looks like dpkg-source knows about bzip2 since 2005
 [16:13:34]  <jcristau> so the version in etch has that
 [16:13:37]  <ajax> yay, only 37 app packages in the katamari
 [16:13:43]  <ajax> progress, bitches.
 [16:13:48]  <jcristau> but, i think dak still rejects them
 [16:14:01]  <drago01> dak?
 [16:14:16]  <ajax> not that it matters _too_ much, individual/ is still only like 1.1G
 [16:14:17]  <jcristau> drago01: debian archive kit, the software behind the archive
 [16:14:26]  <drago01> jjc
 [16:14:33]  <drago01> jcristau: ah ok
 [16:15:22]  <daniels+ dunno, ask the admins?
 [16:17:59]  <ajax> is there any standard debian tool way of saying "given these two EVRs, which one is newer"?
 [16:18:17]  <pjones^ debian EVRs?
 [16:18:32]  <ajax^ it doesn't matter that much, i'm just going to hardwire E and R to 0
 [16:18:58]  <ajax> and all our V's should compare identically regardless whether it's rpm or dpkg doing it
 [16:19:04]  <daniels^ dpkg --compare-versions 'lesser_version < greater_versions'
 [16:21:49]  <daniels> jcristau: um, looking at process_unchecked.py from dak git, i can't see that rejecting bz2 is even configurable anymore.  so i'd be surprised if uploads would be rejected.
 [16:22:10]  <ajax> heh.  --compare-versions lesser '<' greater.  three args, not one.
 [16:22:22]  <daniels> meh
 [16:22:32]  <ajax> still, that helps automate the boring bit of this
 [16:22:43]  <daniels> 'this' == ?
 [16:22:49]  <ajax> building the 7.4 archive
 [16:23:12]  <ajax> easiest to just symlink in all the drivers and keep the one that's ver-newest
 [16:23:46]  <jcristau> daniels: sid's Sources.gz doesn't have anything bz2 though
 [16:28:01]  <vignatti> it makes sense to define a variable both in dix-config.h.in and xorg-config.h.in?
 [16:28:06]  <vignatti> i mean, the same variable
 [16:28:53]  <daniels^ no, xorg-config.h includes dix-config.h
 [16:28:56]  <daniels> jcristau: oh, blimey.
 [16:29:15]  <daniels> you can only have data.tar.bz2 (and maybe control.tar.bz2, though that'd be pointless).  orig.tar.gz is still, well, orig.tar.gz.
 [16:29:37]  <daniels> so the resultant binary packages can still have bzip2 data within the ar container, but you can't have bz2 sources.  gah.
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[16:30:25]  <vignatti> oh sure
 [16:30:41]  <ajax> go dpkg
 [16:31:23]  <alanc> well, if some major project like, say Xorg, just stopped releasing .gz's, then debian might have incentive to fix it, right?
 [16:31:50]  <daniels> ajax: much though i'm bothered by negativity and 'my desktop environment beats yours' sniping ... dpkg's major virtue remains that it isn't rpm.
 [16:32:09]  <vignatti> krh: you put DRI2 env both in dix-config.h.in and xorg-config.h.in (see daniels comment ^^^)
 [16:32:16]  <mjg59> If rpm involved shell rather than magic macros, I'd be a happier person
 [16:32:23]  <ajax> i have yet to find a packaging system that _isn't_ shit.
 [16:32:24]  <mjg59> Beyond that, I ahven't found much reason to prefer dpkg
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[16:32:35]  <vignatti> krh: the same for XF86DRI
 [16:33:08]  <daniels> alanc: well, it wouldn't cause an overnight revolution, but it would still definitely advance the cause.  even so though, the stable rule applies: support would have to be written and tested, then put into unstable, then to testing, then to stable, then once you've got that stable release out, you can start supporting use of .orig.tar.bz2 in main.
 [16:33:57]  <alanc> it would probably be more reasonable to put out .gz's this time and announce it's the last time we're doing it so they have a little warning to change
 [16:34:12]  <ajax> i hate being reasonable
 [16:34:15]  <daniels> mjg59: not having one file larger than the known universe.  not having file dependencies (_worst_ _idea_ _ever_).  using make instead of some retardo fake macro language.  not having file dependencies.  i guess its upstream history is about equal though: jbj vs iwj.
 [16:34:16]  <ajax> but, yes.
 [16:34:33]  <daniels> +1 from me.  worst case, jcristau has to bunzip2 and then gzip.  boo hoo.
 [16:34:39]  <vignatti> ajax: AvailableClientInput symbol is unused. git-grep for it
 [16:34:47]  <daniels> or actually, you know what we should do
 [16:34:52]  <daniels> abandon releases altogether
 [16:35:03]  <ajax> "one file larger than" referring to?
 [16:35:11]  <jcristau> i already have to repack the server anyway. freaking README.DRI not allowing modifs.
 [16:35:14]  <daniels> everyone should use everything directly from git, and any distro that doesn't update their stable version to contain the very latest xorg git master is clearly done by idiots.
 [16:36:01]  <daniels> jcristau: eh, the server is the least of your worries, it's already a nightmare.  it's the 4000 auxiliary packages that become a nightmare: adding, say, 2min to every proto or lib package, or whatever.  oh well.
 [16:36:09]  <daniels> ajax: any spec file i've had to read in the last few years?
 [16:36:58]  <daniels> debian's devel documentation does suffer from having been written by, well, debian people, but i don't know, i find it pleasant to use even though i can actually socialise with others.
 [16:37:20]  <ajax> i find it rare that they're significantly larger than a corresponding control file that does as much work.  xserver spec, for example, is like forty things at once.
 [16:38:01]  <ajax> still: packaging sucks.
 [16:38:17]  <ajax> you pick your arbitrary constraints and you deal with them as little as possible
 [16:40:22]  <daniels> getting out of the packaging business was not accidental, nor was it (entirely) incidental.
 [16:41:36]  <daniels> ajax: i guess the point is that one spec file is every bit of metadata altogether.  i guess the relevant analogy is debian/rules (or debian/control if you prefer) : .spec :: configure.ac : configure.ac + **/Makefile.am.
 [16:43:28]  <ajax> there's something to be said for only needing to touch one file; and something to be said for factoring out common bits
 [16:43:58]  <ajax> at some level i deeply just don't care
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[16:44:12]  <ajax> at the deep level, i suppose?
 [16:44:37]  <daniels> tequila all round.
 [16:44:54]  <ajax> it's a beer kind of night i think
 [16:45:23]  <ajax> i've yet to find a bar in this town with both a) decent tequila selection b) tolerable patrons
 [16:45:24]  <daniels> i've been on nothing harder than coca-cola, and am about to go to sleep.  \m/
 [16:46:14]  <ajax> later
 [16:48:02]  <daniels> 'nacht.
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[16:56:05]  <ajax> hooray, an archive
 [16:56:12]  <ajax> everything but the server
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[18:19:26]  <rnoland> what is xserver holding on?
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[18:48:43]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: DamageRegionPending is a misnomer for non-ReportPostOp records
 [18:49:41]  <MrCooper> why the gratuitous name change? Doesn't it require bumping the video driver ABI?
 [18:50:26]  <stillunknown> changing DamageDamageRegion changes api, so i made something new
 [18:50:42]  <stillunknown> what name would you have used, that is less ackward?
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[18:51:26]  <stillunknown> Pending can also be interpreted as "Pending for rendering" btw.
 [18:52:29]  <stillunknown> @MrCooper
 [18:52:49]  <MrCooper> so we're keeping bug compatiblity for the nvidia driver?
 [18:53:23]  <MrCooper> the previous names seemed better to me
 [18:54:06]  <MrCooper> DamageRegionPending isn't necessarily related to rendering
 [18:54:36]  <stillunknown> damage is done to either trigger rendering or as foreplay
 [18:54:40]  <MrCooper> it isn't even related to 'pending' for 'normal' damage records
 [18:54:49]  <jbarnes^ "infamous vblank-rework" :)
 [18:54:57]  <MrCooper> :)
 [18:55:14]  <daniels> jbarnes: hey, at least it's not i-h
 [18:55:23]  <jbarnes> suppose so
 [18:55:28]  <mjg59> Hypothetical changeset tool
 [18:56:16]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: changing api semantics for the fun of it isn't what i do, even though i care little for the nvidia blob
 [19:06:58]  <math_b> my xserver strart spinning forever in damageDestroyPixmap, from times to times, is that a known bug ?
 [19:07:26]  <math_b> background: a few days old git master, radeon, compiz
 [19:08:05]  <MrCooper> never heard of it
 [19:08:25]  <math_b> I have a gdb backtrace
 [19:08:52]  <MrCooper> excellent
 [19:08:55]  <math_b> that happen, say, one a week-ish
[19:09:17]  <math_b> when a window is closed
[19:09:29]  <math_b> writting a bug report
 [19:09:35]  <MrCooper> I tend to have that kind of X uptime as well but haven't hit it yet
 [19:10:31]  <math_b> I certainly don't have week long X uptime
 [19:12:04]  <math_b> memory leaks tends to be noticeable after a day or so
 [19:12:12]  * stillunknown remembers seeing some guideline on api breakage, i just don't remember where i saw it
 [19:15:09]  <MrCooper^ relax... I know the rules, but in this case IMO the API was broken wrt PostOp records, and you're just keeping bug compatibility
 [19:17:47]  <stillunknown> I'm ok with the old name, so if "everyone" thinks that, i can change it again.
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[19:28:39]  <MrCooper> math_b: is pPrev->pNext == pPrev?
 [19:29:58]  <MrCooper> when it hangs
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[19:44:58]  <MrCooper> I mean pDamage->pNext == pDamage
 [19:46:23]  <MrCooper> hmm weird, pPrev and pDamage have the same value
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[20:30:19]  <math_b> MrCooper: isn't pDamage used uninitialized, at the very least on the first loop iteration ?
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[20:31:18]  <math_b> hum not really, if I read damageRemoveDamage...
 [20:31:42]  <stillunknown> it's =, not ==
 [20:33:27]  <math_b> argg, yess
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[05:32:30]  <tjaalton> whot: ping? is the synaptics properties stuff for XI2?
 [05:33:28]  <tjaalton> it does check if the ABI_MAJOR is >=3
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[05:52:11]  <tjaalton> I guess that needs to be patched out
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[07:06:06]  <mnemo> what is an X11 "atom" ??
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[07:16:33]  <daniels> mnemo: an atom is a 32-bit integer that represents a different value (often a string)
 [07:16:53]  <daniels> the server keeps a list of atoms; it's just to cut down on wire traffic, etc.
 [07:23:57]  <MrCooper> ajax: I'd prefer if exaShmPutImage could be reinstated; it can handle damage correctly with stillunknown's damage changes, and can accelerate cases PutImage can't
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[07:30:08]  <mnemo> daniels: thanks
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[07:59:45]  <mnemo> how can I detect at the XCB level that the user closed my program (using ALT-F4 or top-right X button for instance) ... I'm seeing this small xcb_poll_for_event() loop and when I press the top-right X button the app SIGSEGV's because the app doesn't detect that the window has been torn down (or something like that)...
 [07:59:50]  <mnemo> the loop that crashes is here --> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xcb/demo/tree/tests/flames.c#210
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[09:54:35]  <tjaalton> whot: dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input//synaptics_drv.so: undefined symbol: SetProperty
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[10:01:53]  <stillunknown> Does anyone know why a lot of drivers ignore planemask != 0xFFFFFFFF cases?
 [10:02:05]  <stillunknown> for copy and solid operations
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[10:28:57]  <tjaalton> whot: nevermind, the package didn't regenerate Makefile.in
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[12:24:56]  <agd5f> stillunknown: hw doesn't support planemasks?
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[12:36:35]  <stillunknown> agd5f: they do use the planemask, just don't adjust the raster operation when a planemask becomes relevant.
 [12:37:17]  <stillunknown> Later i realised they may be using the planemask to shield off any bits that are not supposed to be touched.
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[12:40:08]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: another name idea, DamageRegionAppend
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[14:18:01]  <iphands> Any ideas why  Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7" does not work in 1.4.99.906 (1.5.0 RC 6) ??
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[19:59:15]  <math_b> configure.ac does a PKG_CHECK_EXISTS on openssl, why not on  libcrypto ?
 [20:00:40]  <math_b> this cause the Xorg binary to be needlessly linked with libssl.so
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[20:34:00]  <daniels> math_b: because libcrypto didn't provide the sha1 routines: if it does, feel free to send a patch. :)
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[21:05:51]  <spstarr> math_b: does it matter? libcrypto and libssl are both from OpenSSL anyway
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[22:20:59]  <math_b> daniels: I think libcrypto provide the required routine
 [22:23:25]  <math_b> spstarr: yes, but still there is no point linking against libssl.so and usung none of its symbol
 [22:23:37]  <math_b> using
 [22:23:53]  <spstarr> true
 [22:25:38]  <math_b> daniels: I'm currently typing in a server that has this patch applied: http://pastebin.com/m96817cb
 [22:27:06]  <math_b> SHA1_Init is provided by libcrypto here
 [22:30:04]  <daniels^ okay, thanks
 [22:30:59]  <math_b> and according to openssl changelog openssl.pc and libcrypto.pc where introduced at the same time so ...
 [22:31:06]  <math_b> no pb
 [22:31:08]  <daniels> oh, hm
 [22:31:18]  <daniels> okay, if that's the case i guess i can just directly apply your patch
 [22:31:19]  <daniels> thanks!
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[11:46:16]  <math_b> I found a nasty bug in xf86SetScrnInfoModes: if crtc is NULL then mode is left to whatever is on the stack, yet it's used later in the function
 [11:47:04]  <math_b> in my case while (scrn->modes != mode) loop forever, or I see no symptom depending on compiler optimization settings
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[12:03:49]  <math_b> Tested fix: http://pastebin.com/m8e3a47e
 [12:04:30]  <math_b> please consider applying this patch
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[12:10:07]  <math_b> and cherry pick to server-1.5-branch too
 [12:13:09]  <stillunknown^ I'm on it.
 [12:16:38]  <stillunknown> satisfied?
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----- [2008-09-01] -----
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[00:03:20]  <ewomer> hello I'm using xhost 1.0.2 and i get this error http://pasteall.org/2242/bash
 [00:03:20]  <ewomer> cant find the answer on line anywhere
 [00:03:32]  <ewomer> anyone got a clue
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[01:11:02]  <dagb> ewomer: try `xhost +localhost`
 [01:12:06]  <ewomer> its been added
 [01:12:36]  <ewomer> why does that work but xhost +si:root:localhost fails
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[01:55:48]  <dagb> ewomer: can't tell. I was not even aware of that syntax.
 [01:56:02]  <dagb> though I see it is documented in the man-page.
 [01:56:37]  <dagb> there may be some requirements for that syntax. feel free to study the man-page!
 [01:59:11]  <ewomer> thanks
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[03:12:20]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[04:19:47]  <Bertl> greetings! having troubles with mga driver xrandr/xvideo .. anybody here who knows some details about the 7.2.0 mga driver?
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[04:35:41]  <airlied> MrCooper: ping
 [04:35:59]  <MrCooper> ack airlied
 [04:36:27]  <airlied^ just off the top of your head question..
 [04:36:42]  <airlied> I've backported exa/damage from 1.5 into -ati driver for 1.1
 [04:37:00]  <MrCooper> xserver 1.1?
 [04:37:14]  <airlied^ yup...
[04:37:29]  <airlied> its rendering a lot of black block of text.
 [04:37:52]  <airlied> just wondering if you have any ideas of where it might have divereged.
 [04:38:38]  <MrCooper> RENDER or core text?
 [04:38:44]  <airlied> render..
 [04:38:51]  <airlied> core txt appears to be not rendering either
 [04:39:00]  <airlied> i.e. xterm just is empty..
 [04:39:17]  <MrCooper> did you account for glyphs not being real pixmaps?
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[04:39:57]  <airlied> MrCooper: hmm must check that actually I didn't check the render diffs..
 [04:40:05]  <airlied> that might be an idea alright..
 [04:40:32]  <MrCooper> doesn't explain core text though
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[04:41:21]  <MrCooper> can't think of anything else offhand, but I guess a lot's changed between 1.1 and 1.5...
 [04:41:25]  <airlied> hmm I wonder am I just going to end up chasing myself down a hole..
 [04:41:36]  <airlied> I'll backport render bits and fb will hurt me :)
 [04:42:02]  <airlied> it may be more effort than I want to just get texture video going.
 [04:43:07]  <MrCooper> quite possibly
 [04:46:07]  <airlied> I now know for nvidia feel ;-)
 [04:46:12]  <airlied> ^for^how
 [04:49:31]  <MrCooper> yeah, I was just thinking you might end up with a monster like that :)
 [04:50:04]  <MrCooper> maybe try disabling exaGlyphs for a start
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[04:51:29]  <airlied> will put that on top of my list.. thanks..
 [04:51:53]  <johnflux> hey all
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[04:53:00]  <JohnFlux> ../common/dri_util.h:59:35: error: GL/internal/dri_sarea.h: No such file or directory
 [04:53:09]  <JohnFlux> did someone forget to check in dri_sarea.h ? :)
 [05:00:56]  <JohnFlux> just deleting the include seems to work
 [05:01:06]  <JohnFlux> from the git message, it looks like krh delete the sarea code
 [05:02:28]  <MrCooper> so you probably need to update whatever you're trying to build from Git
 [05:03:26]  <MrCooper> I guess that would be xserver
 [05:03:44]  <JohnFlux^ manually delete the include from the file works
 [05:03:54]  <JohnFlux> i think krh just simply forgot to check that file in
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[05:05:38]  <MrCooper> didn't you just say he removed it?
 [05:06:36]  <JohnFlux^ I'm saying he removed all the files, but forgot to remove the #include line from  common/dri_util.h
 [05:06:46]  <JohnFlux> if I delete the #include, then it compiles
[05:07:21]  <MrCooper> ah, I thought you meant he forgot to check in dri_sarea.h
 [05:07:38]  <JohnFlux> ah no - dri_sarea.h  is deleted now
 [05:08:19]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: well, in my first line I thought he'd forgot to check in dri_sarea.h, but back then I wasn't as knowledgeable as I am now :-)
 [05:10:27]  <MrCooper> the commit did change dri_util.c, I suspect he just had a stray dri_sarea.h installed in his build environment
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[05:11:30]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: want to fix?  I don't have an account
 [05:12:40]  <MrCooper> may do when I get to it
 [05:13:00]  <JohnFlux^ yeah no rush.  i emailed krh
 [05:13:12]  <JohnFlux> just mentioning it so I don't forget it :-)
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[05:45:39]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: fix pushed
 [05:46:37]  <JohnFlux> thanks
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[06:43:20]  <JohnFlux> xauth depends on xmuu  - but I don't have xmuu anywhere in the jhbuild_modules
[06:43:25]  <JohnFlux> could it be called something else?
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[06:45:08]  <JohnFlux> oh, it's just called xmu
 [06:45:09]  <JohnFlux> :-)
 [06:56:22]  <JohnFlux> libxcb requires Xauth.h - what installs this Xauth.h file?
 [07:02:19]  <JohnFlux> I'm trying to work out the dependancies between the modules :-)
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[07:11:47]  <daniels> libXau
 [07:13:35]  <JohnFlux^ ah thanks
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[07:18:30]  <JohnFlux> daniels: cross-compiling for arm doesn't work because it cross-compile's makekeys instead of compiling it natively.  there are patches floating on the interwebs, but I'd like to try to get this fixed upstream
 [07:18:47]  <JohnFlux> do you have a particularly way that you would accept?
 [07:19:15]  <JohnFlux> urgh, bad english
 [07:19:42]  <JohnFlux> I'll have a go at making a nice patch and send it to you
 [07:23:08]  <daniels^ most of the patches take the form of completely circumventing automake and calling $(CC_FOR_BUILD) $(CFLAGS) $(DESPAIR) -o $@ $<
 [07:23:46]  <daniels> ideally it should be just changing from noinst_PROGRAMS = makekeys, to noinst_HOST_PROGRAMS = makekeys, or such
 [07:25:07]  <JohnFlux^ noinst_HOST_PROGRAMS is not something recognised by automake though, no?
 [07:25:15]  <JohnFlux> at least, google gives no matches
 [07:25:39]  <JohnFlux> daniels: I need to somehow write a rule for it?
 [07:43:20]  <JohnFlux> would you be happy with just:
 [07:43:21]  <JohnFlux> +CC = @CC_FOR_BUILD@
 [07:43:30]  <JohnFlux> (assuming CC_FOR_BUILD was defined elsewhere)
 [07:47:25]  <JohnFlux> daniels: i've gone through all the emails that google brings up on this, and there doesn't seem to be a proposed good solution yet
 [07:47:45]  <JohnFlux> If I can get it down to just  +CC = @CC_FOR_BUILD@, would that be accepted?
 [07:47:52]  <JohnFlux> I don't know what else I can do
[07:48:09]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [07:48:17]  <JohnFlux> hell, what if I rewrite makekeys in python or something?
 [07:48:21]  <JohnFlux> that would work, no?
 [07:48:40]  <JohnFlux> it's a pretty small and simple program
 [07:48:48]  <JohnFlux> it should be easy to rewrite in python
 [07:54:24]  <daniels> yeah, atm automake doesn't support the concept of host programs, so you'd have to hack automake
 [07:54:47]  <daniels> CC = @CC_FOR_BUILD@ would be acceptable, yeah, but you could also rewrite in awk or something
 [07:55:00]  <daniels> python would be a pretty harsh addition to our build-depends, though you could argue that xcb already requires it
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[07:59:43]  <daniels> i think someone already rewrote it in perl, but, ugh
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[09:02:47]  <daniels> #ifdef __SCO__
 [09:02:53]  <daniels> /* The system defined value is wrong. MAXPATHLEN is set in sco5.cf. */
 [09:02:57]  <daniels> #undef PATH_MAX
 [09:02:58]  <daniels> #endif
 [09:03:09]  <mjg59> ...
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[09:06:49]  <daniels> os/access.c is a barrel of laughs
 [09:07:19]  <mdales> a quick question about the xorg/xfree86 copyright for code - trying to work out whether I can put out a binary driver legally
 [09:07:59]  <mdales> daniels!
 [09:08:06]  <mdales> how's daniels doing these days?
 [09:08:08]  <daniels^ good afternoon :)
 [09:08:14]  <daniels> not too bad thanks, and yourself?
 [09:08:36]  <mdales> good
 [09:08:41]  <daniels^ the mit/x11 and bsd licenses let you release binary drivers, yeah, but you should really ask an actual lawyer if there's anything you're concerned about
 [09:08:53]  <mdales> well, it will be passed onto a lawyer
 [09:08:58]  <mdales> I'm just doing a first pass
 [09:09:26]  <mdales> I noticed copying file didn't hold useful info :)
 [09:09:46]  <mdales> well, not my copy
 [09:09:51]  <mdales> just seeing if it's updated
 [09:10:46]  <daniels> hmm, really?
 [09:10:49]  <mdales> in particular I based parts of my driver on shadowFB which is copyright xfree86 1999, which confused me a bit :)
 [09:11:00]  <mdales> damn phone - back in a sec
 [09:11:07]  <mdales> bloody disties of kit that screwed up
 [09:11:38]  <daniels> commit bd49332e4772bd57ffb76c829f0e4770ab876057
 [09:11:38]  <daniels> Author: Daniel Drake <d.drake@mmm.com>
 [09:11:38]  <daniels> Date:   Wed Aug 1 08:07:08 2007 +0300
 [09:11:38]  <daniels>     Add proper COPYING file
 [09:11:45]  <mdales> doh
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[09:13:25]  <JohnFlux> daniels: okay to get libX11 to crosscompile requires just 4 lines added.  The CC=   and 3 lines in configure.ac 
[09:13:34]  <JohnFlux> and it works for me (tm)
 [09:14:33]  <daniels> nice
 [09:17:59]  <JohnFlux^ can I get an account to push up small changes?  I won't do anything bad ;-)
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[09:23:38]  <mdales> daniels: ta
 [09:27:49]  <mdales> that's very usefully very comprehensive :)
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[10:45:08]  <tjaalton> whot: maybe commit f04b27861983212bb made macbook touchpads too slow?
 [10:46:13]  <mjg59+ Which tree is that commit from?
 [10:46:47]  <tjaalton^ that was synaptics, if you meant to ask me :)
 [10:47:16]  <mjg59> Sorry, yes
 [10:48:53]  <tjaalton> or maybe not. there's still the old patch in ubuntu which could interfere
 [10:51:48]  <tjaalton> at least it could be dropped now that there is support for properties
 [10:51:52]  <tjaalton> duh
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[11:36:49]  <slicer> Hi. The x.org wiki seems to be down; does anyone have the URL for SVN/git/whatever? I found a bug in
[11:37:04]  <slicer> the X server regarding Xevie, and I'd like to check it it's been fixed before I send a patch :)
 [11:37:40]  <slicer> (the bug was found in 1.4.2 as compiled on debian testing)
 [11:38:18]  <cjb^ git clone git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/xserver
 [11:38:40]  <slicer^ Thank you.
 [11:40:43]  <slicer> Ok, it's not fixed. Basically, in Xext/xevie.c, for all the replys but ProcXevieQueryVersion, the rep.length field isn't set to zero, which makes the client misbehave when it gets the reply. I've made a patch; do you have a patch submission process?
 [11:40:53]  <daniels> nice
 [11:41:10]  <daniels> slicer: you can file a bug on bugs.freedesktop.org or xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, but Xevie is planned to go away quite soon.  what are you using it for?
 [11:41:20]  <daniels> also, the wiki at www.x.org works fine fo rme.
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[11:41:45]  <slicer> daniels: I'm using it for global shotcuts.
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[11:42:51]  <slicer> Ok, the wiki works from a different net connection, so that's just a bug with the university net.
 [11:43:17]  <slicer> daniels: Are any replacements planned for XEvIE?
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[11:52:13]  <daniels> slicer: what's wrong with XGrabKey?
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[12:11:56]  <slicer> daniels: XGrabKey only works for key presses, not key releases.
 [12:12:01]  * slicer needs push-to-talk hotkeys :)
 [12:13:34]  <daniels> oh, this thing again
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[12:14:09]  <slicer> daniels: "again"?
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[12:15:16]  <daniels> didn't we talk about this a while ago? or was that someone else?
 [12:17:18]  <slicer> Last I talked to anyone about this was a year ago or so, I think?
 [12:17:40]  <slicer> And while I might be mistaken, I don't think I've been in this channel before.
 [12:19:10]  <daniels> ah, okay.
 [12:19:28]  <daniels> i assume this is for a game or something?
 [12:19:41]  <slicer> VoIP tool (mumble.sourceforge.net)
 [12:20:06]  <slicer> And as it will be a background application while you work with a game (or any other application), it needs to passively monitor the keyboard.
 [12:20:12]  <slicer> I have a workaround in place using. Er. Hold on.
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[12:21:09]  <slicer> XQueryPointer and XQueryKeymap, but that needs continous polling, which I'd rather not do.
 [12:24:11]  <slicer> Anyway, as soon as the bugzilla sends me the registration URL, I'll upload the patch there. At least then XEvIE will work until it gets removed, instead of being nonfunctional :)
 [12:24:48]  <daniels> sure, ta
 [12:25:31]  <johnflux> what's XEvlE?
 [12:25:56]  <slicer^ http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XEvIE - X Event Interception Extension
 [12:26:26]  <johnflux> similiar to xtest?
 [12:26:55]  <slicer^ Basically, allows applications to tell the X server: "Send me all keyboard and mouse events, regardless of who has the focus, and allow me to modify or suppress them."
 [12:27:10]  <johnflux> sounds like the xtest extension
 [12:27:18]  <slicer> The original idea was to use it for accessibility.
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[12:27:47]  <slicer> I don't think there's an xtest function for intercepting all input events.
 [12:28:03]  <slicer> There's some for simulating them, though.
 [12:30:02]  <daniels> the problem with xevie is that it doesn't wrap.  at the moment, if you want to run another PTT app, or if you want to use it for a11y or whatever, you're screwed.
 [12:32:39]  <slicer^ That's been addresses in the 1.1 version of XEvIE, which has a specification, but no implementation :(
 [12:33:55]  <daniels> yeah
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[12:34:59]  <johnflux> what's liblbxutil, and do I need it? :)
 [12:35:25]  <johnflux> low bandwidth x
 [12:35:31]  <johnflux> i guess I can disable it, somehow
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[12:49:45]  <johnflux> does xserver require libpciaccess?
 [12:49:54]  <johnflux> libpciaccess doesn't cross compile for me
 [12:50:01]  <johnflux> checking for /usr/include/asm/mtrr.h... configure: error: cannot check for file existence when cross compiling
 [12:50:20]  <stillunknown> yes, libpciaccess is a requirement
 [12:50:52]  <jcristau> sounds like it should use AC_CHECK_HEADER instead
 [12:52:02]  <johnflux> AC_CHECK_FILE([/usr/include/asm/mtrr.h],  [have_mtrr_h="yes"], [have_mtrr_h="no"])
 [12:52:06]  <johnflux> what should this be changed to?
 [12:52:17]  <johnflux> AC_CHECK_HEADER([/usr/include/asm/mtrr.h], [have_mtrr_h="yes"], [have_mtrr_h="no"])    ?
 [12:52:33]  <johnflux> hmm, although not good to hard code in the full path, no?
 [12:52:41]  <jcristau> AC_CHECK_HEADER([asm/mtrr.h], ...)
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[12:57:13]  <johnflux> jcristau: that worked
 [12:57:20]  <johnflux> thanks!
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[13:01:54]  <johnflux> I've almost got it to cross compile
 [13:02:04]  <johnflux> xserver seems to rely on openssl:   glyph.c:33:26: error: openssl/sha.h: No such file or directory
 [13:02:08]  <johnflux> in xserver/render
 [13:02:28]  <johnflux> is it possible to turn off some feature to disable this?
 [13:02:37]  <johnflux> or do I really need to cross compile openssl as well :-)
 [13:02:39]  <jcristau> no
 [13:06:33]  <jcristau> hrm. xevie doesn't seem to byteswap replies.
 [13:11:30]  <johnflux^ out of interest, any idea why xserver/render requires the SHA stuff?
 [13:12:21]  <jcristau> they need a hash function
 [13:12:22]  <wereHamster> it's about time someone wrote server-side xcb bindings. Last week it was randr not implementing swapped replies, now xevie ...
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[16:43:56]  <Dr_Jakob> So when are the people going to XDS2008 going to show there?
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[16:44:09]  <Dr_Jakob> I'm already there.
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[19:42:17]  <xkpe> hello
 [19:42:47]  <xkpe> is this # about xorg development or development for xorg?
 [19:43:29]  <DrNick> xorg development
 [19:46:11]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: you're in edinburgh already? christ
 [19:47:27]  <xkpe> so, can you tell me where would be more appropriate to ask some questions about capturing keyboard input, and redirect to multiple windows?
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[20:39:44]  <benjsc> xkpe: probably here
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----- [2008-09-02] -----
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[00:27:44]  <reduz_> hi people
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[00:27:55]  <reduz_> where can i find the function reference for xlib?
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[00:39:01]  <benjsc> reduz_: do a search for the X protocol specification or use manpages
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[01:15:22]  <reduz_> i really like the x11 docs
 [01:15:24]  <reduz_> clear and nice
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[01:34:42]  <reduz_> do you know if there is any way to associate a Window structure to a structure of mine?
 [01:35:03]  <reduz_> so i don't have to like, hash up / sort everything
[01:35:15]  <reduz_> to receive it on the proper one
 [01:43:22]  <benjsc> anyone know of any .spec files to build master xorg -> rpm's
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[01:50:09]  <airlied> benjsc: rawhides ones?
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[02:07:56]  <daniels> reduz_: not really, no
 [02:12:39]  <reduz_> oh, no problem then, i'll just hash them up, thanks!
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[02:21:52]  <daniels> np
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[02:29:01]  <reduz_> oooh awesome, have my little window and can see all the events
 [02:29:12]  <reduz_> x11 brings me joy
 [02:30:07]  <daniels> not a phrase often heard
 [02:31:10]  <reduz_> i'm not getting many expose events when moving a window over mine.. i guess because of compiz?
 [02:31:47]  <daniels> right
 [02:34:14]  <reduz_> well, compared to windows, this was so easy and simple it's amazing :P seems like i'll have a lot of fun with xlib
 [02:38:33]  <reduz_> question.. am i just supposed to redraw right away when i get an expose event? or should i wait for more events and see if i can combie regions or something?
 [02:42:20]  <daniels> you pretty much want to combine regions for all the events you currently have
 [02:44:26]  <reduz_> oh, so i combine regions until count in XExposeEvent.count is zero?
 [02:46:14]  <reduz_> then draw as much as i can without redrawing?
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[03:10:26]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:18:34]  <daniels> reduz_: well yeah, but keep walking the queue with XNextEvent() to aggregate multiple XExposeEvents if possible.
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[04:15:23]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: indeed, I couldn't get a fligt for today so I had to go yesterday.
 [04:17:15]  <keithp^ already through edi then?
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[04:22:26]  <Dr_Jakob> No I'm there now...
 [04:23:02]  <keithp^ excellent. we're in fra and heading for edi in a few hours
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[04:26:00]  <Dr_Jakob> keithp: ah okay, I went in via PIK (Glassgow)
 [04:26:10]  <Dr_Jakob> what hotel will you be staying at?
 [04:26:23]  <keithp> Anholt, idr and I will be at the ramada on princes st
 [04:26:33]  <keithp> we booked a bit late, I'm afraid
 [04:26:41]  <Dr_Jakob> ah okay
 [04:27:24]  <Dr_Jakob> what about jbarnss?
 [04:27:33]  <Dr_Jakob> s/ss/es/
 [04:27:51]  <keithp> He's out at the Holiday inn by the zoo with Gordon Jin
 [04:28:03]  <Dr_Jakob> ah okay.
 [04:28:13]  <keithp> I'm not sure which will be better in the end, although princes st is closer to more bars...
 [04:28:17]  <Dr_Jakob> also why are you flying in from frankfurt?
 [04:28:23]  <keithp> and, as you know, nothing related to xorg should ever fail to find a bar
 [04:28:28]  <Dr_Jakob> Indeed
 [04:28:33]  <keithp^ PDX->FRA->EDI is the fastest route
 [04:28:44]  <keithp> the only non-stop from PDX goes to FRA once a day
 [04:28:53]  <Dr_Jakob> Ah.
 [04:28:59]  <keithp> We met Stuart Kreitman and Alan Coopersmith here as well!
 [04:29:36]  <keithp> Dr_Jakob: I end up going through fra many times because of this
 [04:30:35]  <Dr_Jakob> okay, well it seems kinda like a waste flying from FRA back to EDI. That distance is about what I have fly to get there directly.
 [04:32:54]  <Dr_Jakob> Anyway I'm staying at the "Murrayfield, Ellersly House Hotel (opp 9), UK"
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[04:45:37]  <keithp> ok, gate time
 [04:46:15]  <johnflux> Morning all
 [04:46:45]  <johnflux> keithp: are you going?
 [04:48:31]  <Dr_Jakob^ morning
 [04:49:15]  <johnflux> hey jakob
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[04:50:53]  <Dr_Jakob> johnflux: are you comming?
 [04:51:50]  <johnflux^ not sure - I'm looking over the talks and trying to come up with a justification
 [04:52:04]  <johnflux> is anyone going to be talking about the next Xorg release?
 [04:52:17]  <daniels> erm, maybe anholt
 [04:52:27]  <mjg59> We should be able to beat anholt into doing it
 [04:52:33]  <mjg59> He's too much of a hippy to defend himself
 [04:52:38]  <daniels> over the last while it's mainly been ajax, myself and anholt doing release stuff, and neither of the former two will be there
 [04:53:25]  <johnflux> what's anholt's full name?
 [04:53:45]  <daniels> eric anholt
 [04:53:52]  <daniels> a cunning nom de plume
 [04:54:58]  * johnflux googles what 'nom de plume' means
 [04:55:15]  <daniels> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-cat-eats-feather.jpg
 [04:55:18]  <johnflux> it means what I guessed it means :-)
 [04:55:24]  <daniels> sadly the url destroys the joke
 [04:55:34]  <johnflux> haha
 [04:55:35]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: haha
 [04:55:36]  <johnflux> that is funny
 [04:57:00]  <johnflux> who will be there that knows about xrender?
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[04:57:27]  <JohnFlux> or exa
 [04:57:29]  * mjg59 blames Keith
 [04:58:05]  <JohnFlux> what about the current DRI status? :-)
 [04:58:23]  <daniels^ exa: keithp, anholt.  dri: krh, anholt.
 [04:59:04]  <Dr_Jakob+ all of which will be there :-)
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[05:04:47]  <JohnFlux> keithp: what will your 'rah rah' talk be on? :-)
 [05:04:53]  <JohnFlux> intel obviously, but...
 [05:05:27]  <mjg59> He hasn't actually decided yet, we just put in a placeholder
 [05:05:50]  <mjg59> daniels: If you could throw those into something approximating a schedule, that'd be all the win in the world
 [05:06:11]  <daniels^ okay, i'll do that later today, so we're not in any danger of having anything done in advance.
 [05:06:59]  <mjg59^ Y'know, so people who are speaking tomorrow know they are
 [05:08:08]  <daniels> oh, right, i thought it was still monday.  hmm.  right.
 [05:08:11]  <daniels> okay, after lunch.
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[05:11:43]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: please place my talks on thusday...
 [05:11:59]  <daniels^ sure
 [05:12:04]  <Dr_Jakob^ thanks
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[05:39:49]  <JohnFlux> openssl is a pain to cross compile :(
 [05:39:54]  <JohnFlux> it seems to be impossible without patching it
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[05:44:50]  <wereHamster> can't you rip out the sha1 code and put it directly into the xserver source?
 [05:45:11]  <mjg59> License awkwardness
 [05:46:03]  <wereHamster> aw :(
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[05:48:04]  <JohnFlux> i figured out how to cross compile it :-0
 [05:48:25]  <JohnFlux> i hate that every program seems to use its own build system :-)
 [05:48:30]  <JohnFlux> there needs to be consolidation
 [05:49:08]  <stillunknown> There are more programs that build systems.
 [05:49:10]  <stillunknown> *than
 [05:49:36]  <mjg59> JohnFlux: The good news is that X now uses something standard
 [05:50:00]  <stillunknown> For better and for worse.
 [05:50:19]  <JohnFlux> mjg59: yeah X from git has been a pleasure to cross compile with jhbuild
 [05:50:36]  <wereHamster^ build system, you mean like autotools/make? :)
 [05:51:03]  <JohnFlux^ yeah.  but openssl doesn't use autotools :-)
 [05:51:10]  <JohnFlux> it has its own custom scripts
 [05:51:56]  <wereHamster> I didn't use autotools either for some of my small projects, but you can still compile them with './autogen.sh && make'
 [05:52:22]  <wereHamster> err. ./configure && make
 [05:53:04]  <JohnFlux^ and bypass their build system?
 [05:53:51]  <JohnFlux> the problem that I had was that ./Configure  (yes, with that capitilization) didn't allow me to specify the compiler
 [05:57:48]  <whot> tjaalton: not sure how that commit could make the touchpad slower
 [05:58:01]  <tjaalton^ ok, thanks
 [05:58:52]  <whot^ all it does is  set axis ranges. which addmittedly screwwes with edge detection, but I have a patch for that locally
 [05:59:10]  <whot> bloody network at LHR is worse n dialup
 [06:00:06]  <JohnFlux> LHR?
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[06:00:47]  <jcristau> JohnFlux: heathrow
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[06:04:56]  <whot> yeah, the airport where they built a terminal in 2008 and the only two working power points are at starbucks.
 [06:07:43]  <JohnFlux> ah yeah
[06:09:02]  <mjg59> whot: You got a train booked?
 [06:09:10]  <mjg59> Or are you just rocking up to the station and buying a ticket there?
 [06:09:23]  <whot^ train?
[06:09:31]  <mjg59> Oh, you're flying on to EDI? Fair enough
 [06:09:37]  <daniels> heh
 [06:09:52]  <mjg59> I guess it makes some kind of sense if you're starting from LHR
 [06:10:04]  <whot^ yeah, though I guess the train wouldnt take much longer... 7 h stopover
 [06:10:11]  <daniels^ 7h?!?
 [06:10:13]  <mjg59+ Fail
 [06:10:22]  <mjg59> Train is <5 hours
 [06:10:31]  <mjg59> And you're about an hour from Kings Cross
 [06:11:01]  <daniels^ tbf, an hour is pretty keen.
 [06:11:11]  <mjg59^ Yeah, maybe 90 minutes
 [06:11:56]  <whot^ true, but after 25 h on the plane 7 h in lhr are more attractive than 5 h on the train
 [06:12:24]  <mjg59> And you end up at Waverley, not OMG I can't believe it's not Glasgow
 [06:12:49]  <daniels> whot: train = byo booze.
 [06:13:25]  <whot^ 3 h sleep == need no booze to be dizzy :)
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[06:21:42]  <daniels> whot: yeah, i know how that one goes
 [06:29:13]  <daniels> almost like you were flying to the other side of the world or something
 [06:29:22]  <daniels> but at least you save ~3h coming from bne rather than adl, right?
 [06:33:26]  <whot> daniel: not in BNE yet. and ADL-SYD-BKK-LHR is a quite roundabout way to get to london
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[06:35:15]  <daniels> oh right, i thought you moved already.
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[06:35:54]  <whot> daniels: first WE in nov
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[06:36:46]  <daniels> just in case you were in any danger of seeing reasonable summer temperatures? :)
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[06:38:59]  <whot> hehe
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[06:52:10]  <JohnFlux> what does render use SHA for exactly?
 [06:52:25]  <JohnFlux> openssl is really fighting against being cross compiled :/
 [06:52:39]  <daniels> it's used for the glyph cache
 [06:53:05]  <JohnFlux> what happened before the SHA support was added?
 [06:53:08]  <JohnFlux> there was no cache?
 [06:53:30]  <airlied^ if you can find another SHA1 lib you can use it.
 [06:55:34]  <tjaalton> I wonder if 7b6f4d22211d71480caf6 was meant to be included in intel 2.4.2
 [06:55:39]  <MrCooper> it's rather a glyph store than cache; the SHA1 is used to avoid storing the same glyph several times
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[06:58:34]  <JohnFlux> and what was the license problem with just including the code?
 [06:58:48]  <JohnFlux> a 2 second glance at the license seems to indicate that it's bsd-license like
 [06:58:54]  <JohnFlux> (it = openssl)
 [06:59:08]  <MrCooper> who said it was a licence problem?
 [06:59:25]  <mjg59> It's more restrictive than BSD
 [06:59:33]  <mjg59> You can't link it against GPLed code, for instance
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[06:59:52]  <JohnFlux> hmm, the openssl license appears to have the advertising clause
 [07:01:24]  <JohnFlux> mjg59: yeah, it seems you're right
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[07:02:11]  <JohnFlux> what about using GNU TLS library?
 [07:02:14]  <JohnFlux> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnutls/
 [07:02:18]  <JohnFlux> LGPL'ed
 [07:02:35]  <JohnFlux> the other option is the mozilla NLS library
 [07:02:53]  <airlied> its more about not bothering reinventing the sha1 code yet again.
 [07:03:14]  <daniels> the bsd people will scream bloody murder if we use gnutls.
 [07:03:21]  <JohnFlux> airlied: *nod*.  I'm just trying to find an alternative to openssl
 [07:03:27]  <JohnFlux> daniels: hmm
 [07:03:37]  <daniels> something about purity only coming from a system with absolutely no gpl software anywhere ever what about the toolchain OH LOOK A DIVERSION
 [07:03:39]  <stringfellow> if it's just about sha1, the implementation most libraries use is public domain, iirc
 [07:04:53]  <JohnFlux> daniels:
[07:05:11]  <JohnFlux> stringfellow: if you can find it, that would be useful
 [07:05:17]  <JohnFlux> we could import that into X, no?
 [07:05:24]  <JohnFlux> if we find a public domain implementation?
 [07:06:09]  <stringfellow> most libraries that do SHA use it internally
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[07:06:47]  <JohnFlux> stringfellow: yeah it makes sense rather than depending on the whole of openssl
 [07:06:58]  <JohnFlux> sha is a pretty small algorithm
 [07:07:05]  <airlied> there was a discussion xorg about it before
 [07:24:14]  <JohnFlux^ i've googled through the xorg discussion list ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sitesearch=lists.freedesktop.org%2Farchives%2Fxorg%2F&q=sha+openssl&btnG=Search )
 [07:24:27]  <JohnFlux> I can find the initial commit, but no discussion
 [07:24:42]  <JohnFlux> it does seem to be simple to hard code in sha support
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[07:40:09]  <wereHamster> < daniels> the bsd people will scream bloody murder if we use gnutls.
 [07:40:35]  <wereHamster> so what? If they can't come up with a library that can be cross-compiled, they have no right to complain
 [07:43:54]  <fcarrijo> just out of curiosity: do people usually record the sessions held in xds?
 [07:45:45]  <ajax> here, let's talk about the next Xorg release:
 [07:46:29]  <ajax> why in the name of the sweet baby jesus am i the only one who gives any sort of a damn about releasing software?
 [07:46:41]  <ajax> (transmission ends)
 [07:48:27]  * JohnFlux ponders whether any baby can be sweet
 [07:49:02]  <JohnFlux> I'm copying some public domain SHA1 code into xorg/render
 [07:49:17]  <JohnFlux> shall I #define out the openssl code, or delete it?
 [07:50:15]  <ajax> according to at least one variation of the legend, part of the reason for the kosher prohibition on eating pig is because human tastes like bacon
 [07:50:32]  <ajax> in which case, yeah, more of a salty thing than sweet i suppose.
 [07:51:12]  <stillunknown^ Maybe because the people here don't use the released versions?
 [07:52:10]  <JohnFlux> I use released versions :-)
 [07:52:25]  <ajax> talking to you is an intensely frustrating excercise in begged questions.  i'm not going to do it today, sorry.  i'm in a really nasty mood and i don't feel the need to make it worse.
 [07:52:26]  <JohnFlux^ I would be a happy bunny if there was a released xorg with my patches committed
 [07:52:40]  <JohnFlux> (patches to let it cross compile)
 [07:52:55]  <JohnFlux> then we could have a xorg release that cross-compiles out of the box
 [07:52:58]  <JohnFlux> :)
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[07:58:38]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, i'm hoping to fix up when i'm back in .au and start release caballing again for 7.5
 [07:58:52]  <daniels> more than happy to run the initial 1.6 stuff, and will also try to do random libs/apps/etc
 [07:59:25]  <ajax> thanks.
 [07:59:33]  <Dr_Jakob> jbarnes: hi
 [07:59:47]  <daniels> ajax: i live to give
 [07:59:48]  <ajax> the server is the pig that needs the thrust though
 [08:00:09]  <ajax> and i think where i've failed is in trying to get people to think about it as something that Will Release On Time Dammit
 [08:00:18]  <daniels> i'm more than happy to do that thrusting for 1.6.  i'm all about even minor numbers (1.2, 1.4, 1.6), apparently.
 [08:00:19]  <jbarnes> Dr_Jakob: hey
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[08:00:32]  <Dr_Jakob> jbarnes_EDI: how is EDI?
 [08:00:38]  <ajax> that it was a mesa ordering issue for 1.5 is sort of a fluke this time around
 [08:00:41]  <daniels^ i think the only way to do that is to just shove one out on time, regardless, and have some features miss and wait fix months.
 [08:00:43]  <jbarnes_EDI> good so far
 [08:00:45]  <ajax> it's always something.
 [08:00:47]  <daniels> s/fix/six/
 [08:00:57]  <daniels> then they'll learn through brutal experience
 [08:01:03]  <jbarnes_EDI> Dr_Jakob: had a small walkabout this morning, unfortunately i was carrying luggage
 [08:01:03]  <Dr_Jakob^ cool, your in the hotel right next to the Zoo right?
 [08:01:06]  <jbarnes_EDI> right
 [08:01:09]  <Dr_Jakob^ ugh.
 [08:01:14]  <daniels> heh
 [08:01:17]  <daniels> holiday inn ftw
 [08:01:28]  <jbarnes_EDI> saw the world rugby fest in progress
 [08:02:22]  <ajax> i think releasing a server without buildable GL suppor might have been a bad PR move.  whether it's worse than missing your release date by two quarters, i don't know.
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[08:06:40]  <ajax> regardless, i'm not in edi.  if someone else wants to talk about how our release process is shit, please, by all means do so, that'd mean someone else actually cares.
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[08:09:57]  <JohnFlux> ajax:  :/
 [08:10:14]  <JohnFlux> hmm, sha1.h  uses  u_int32_t etc types
 [08:10:27]  <daniels^ that's fine
 [08:10:30]  <JohnFlux> should I typedef these myself?
 [08:10:38]  <daniels> any system which doesn't have uint32_t isn't worth bothering about.
 [08:10:39]  <JohnFlux^ how should I get them defined?
 [08:10:42]  <Dr_Jakob> ffs, stdint.h!
 [08:10:53]  <daniels> JohnFlux: ^^
 [08:11:10]  <Dr_Jakob> those defines aren't stdint btw.
 [08:11:13]  <daniels> ajax: anholt's doing a talk about release stuff (read: he's on the wiki as doing a talk about release stuff), so we'll see what happens
 [08:11:29]  <JohnFlux> Dr_Jakob: so, what are they in?
 [08:12:22]  <Dr_Jakob> I was more uppset that they had gone and invented something themself and not use stdint.h which standard.
 [08:12:32]  <Dr_Jakob> JohnFlux: so I don't know where.
 [08:12:38]  <JohnFlux> ah okay
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[08:16:16]  <JohnFlux> u_int32_t  would be the same as UINT32  no?
 [08:16:24]  <JohnFlux> UINT32 being what the xserver seems to use
 [08:18:03]  <JohnFlux> Dr_Jakob: u_int32_t seems to be a C99 specific thing
 [08:18:15]  <JohnFlux> which might be why I don't have it defined
 [08:18:27]  <daniels> the server uses {INT,CARD}{8,16,32}, INT being signed and CARD being unsigned.  the standard types are {,u}int{8,16,32}_t.
 [08:18:28]  <Dr_Jakob> uint32_t are those called
 [08:18:45]  <daniels> s/the server/X/
 [08:18:48]  <JohnFlux> ah yeah uint32_t  works
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[08:21:47]  <JohnFlux> what's the type that sizeof()  returns?
 [08:22:02]  <Dr_Jakob> size_t i would guess
 [08:22:19]  <JohnFlux> sha1.h  uses  size_t  but that doesn't seem to be recognised
 [08:22:22]  <daniels> size_t, yeah
 [08:22:23]  <daniels> erm
 [08:22:29]  <JohnFlux> sha1.h:30: error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before 'size_t'
 [08:22:35]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [08:22:37]  <Dr_Jakob> eh?
 [08:22:57]  <Dr_Jakob> what manner of voodoo compiler do you use?
 [08:23:07]  <JohnFlux> the code is:  void SHA1Update(SHA1_CTX *, const uint8_t *, size_t) __attribute__((__bounded__(__string__,2,3)));
 [08:23:12]  <daniels> should be in stddef.h
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[08:23:59]  <JohnFlux> daniels: ah yeah
[08:24:17]  <JohnFlux> don't suppose you know where off_t is defined
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[08:30:31]  <daniels> grep says unistd.h
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[09:02:21]  <tjaalton> should there be a fallback mechanism for the driver autoconfiguration, or is it just missing?
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[09:27:13]  <JohnFlux> daniels: importing a copy of sha1 was pretty easy, and compiles
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[09:27:27]  <JohnFlux> dunno if it works yet, but it should do
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[09:34:54]  <JohnFlux> When building xserver, I get: 
[09:34:54]  <JohnFlux> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/john.tapsell/shared/fd.o/xorg/xserver/glx'
 [09:35:06]  <JohnFlux> glxdriswrast.c:39:39: error: GL/internal/dri_interface.h: No such file or directory
 [09:35:33]  <jcristau^ mesa installs that
 [09:35:37]  <JohnFlux> so it's referencing a file that is in mesa/
 [09:35:47]  <JohnFlux> jcristau: well, does it install /internal/  ?
 [09:36:00]  <JohnFlux> i would understand by /internal/ to mean that it's not installed
 [09:36:09]  <JohnFlux> no?
 [09:36:15]  <daniels> not actually the case ...
 [09:37:00]  <JohnFlux> ls /home/john.tapsell/shared/CSSD_Linux_12.17_Baseport/target/usr/local/fd.o/include/GL/internal/
 [09:37:01]  <JohnFlux> glcore.h
 [09:37:05]  <JohnFlux> and that's it.  hmm
 [09:37:06]  <jcristau> src/mesa/drivers/dri/Makefile does
 [09:37:27]  <JohnFlux> oh, wait, maybe because of I disabled dri2
 [09:37:50]  <JohnFlux> I compile with    --disable-dri2
 [09:38:02]  <jcristau> (i'm looking at 7.1, mind you, not master)
 [09:38:07]  <daniels> they've got you building 12.17? harsh.
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[09:38:54]  <MrCooper> JohnFlux: which Mesa build target are you using?
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[09:40:08]  <JohnFlux> MrCooper: i just rerun configure
 [09:40:12]  <JohnFlux> how can I check?
 [09:40:24]  <jcristau^ are you using --with-driver=dri?
 [09:40:39]  <jcristau> if not, you should
 [09:40:49]  <JohnFlux> I don't, but I'll try now
 [09:40:50]  <JohnFlux> thanks
 [09:40:58]  <JohnFlux> jcristau: and recompile mesa
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[09:47:09]  <JohnFlux> jcristau: ah, it seems that dri was disabled because I don't have expat installed
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[10:21:04]  <JohnFlux> sis_context.h:409:2: error: #error platform needs WMB
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[10:21:35]  <JohnFlux> Weapons of Mass Building
 [10:22:05]  <daniels> sis on arm has far bigger problems than lack of memory barriers, namely that it doesn't exist
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[10:22:48]  <Dr_Jakob> JohnFlux: so just disable it
 [10:23:05]  <daniels> if you really feel like it, you could just #define wmb() /**/
 [10:23:49]  <JohnFlux> Dr_Jakob: yeah, i'm currently trying to see how
 [10:24:04]  <daniels^ just comment it out of build.sh or whatever you're using?
 [10:24:49]  <JohnFlux> should it be an configure option?  It doesn't seem so at the moment, but should be added?
 [10:24:52]  <Dr_Jakob> Herman: --with-dri-drivers="swrast,i915"
 [10:25:00]  <Dr_Jakob> JohnFlux:
[10:25:06]  <Dr_Jakob> Herman: sorry
 [10:26:49]  <JohnFlux> swrast is a software version?
 [10:26:59]  <Dr_Jakob^ yupp
 [10:27:17]  <Dr_Jakob> I think that is needed for some stuff in X server
 [10:27:20]  <JohnFlux> cool.  I'll just do --with-dri-drivers="swrast" then I think
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[10:30:30]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: I dunno if it's the same bug that warren spotted, but I get a nice square blotch around the mouse pointer, when X initially launches, with 2.10.1 under 1.4.99.x.
 [10:30:46]  <CosmicPenguin> yep - you sure do
 [10:34:36]  <Q-FUNK^ is that the case also on non-debian/ubuntu?
 [10:34:45]  <CosmicPenguin> yep
 [10:34:51]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [10:34:56]  <Q-FUNK> EXA bug or ...?
 [10:35:19]  <JohnFlux^ software cursor?
 [10:35:31]  <Q-FUNK^ come again?
 [10:36:35]  <JohnFlux^ i'm just wondering if you are using the software rendered cursor, or a hardware accelerated rendered cursor
 [10:36:44]  <JohnFlux> it's an option in the xorg.conf
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[10:37:15]  <Q-FUNK> unspecified
 [10:37:25]  <daniels^ look in Xorg.0.log, then
 [10:37:44]  <Q-FUNK> ok.  just a sec.
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[10:42:02]  <Q-FUNK> not that I can tell.
 [10:42:48]  <Q-FUNK> no mention of *Cursor in the log
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[10:52:08]  <Q-FUNK> that bug doesn't appear when using 2.10.1 uild on 1.4.2, though
 [10:52:36]  <daniels> xds schedule is up
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[11:06:12]  <JohnFlux> anyone understand linking? :)     I've got:
 [11:06:22]  <JohnFlux> data/omapts/linux/arm-tc/cs-arm-2007q1/arm-2007q1/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.2.0/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: warning: libz.so.1, needed by /home/john.tapsell/shared/CSSD_Linux_12.17_Baseport/target/usr/local/fd.o//lib/libXfont.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
 [11:06:44]  <JohnFlux> so it can't find libz.so.1    but the correct  -L  path is being passed in
 [11:07:30]  <JohnFlux> I don't understand why it wants the folder to be specified with -rpath  rather than -L
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[11:34:26]  <daniels> JohnFlux: because it's searching for dependencies of libXfont.so, which it expects to be in LD_LIBRARY_PATH, rpath, ld.so.conf, etc
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[11:35:01]  <daniels> btw, it's probably too late to change and i know it's all over all of your build system, but if you could kill the 'fd.o is x' meme and use xorg instead of fd.o, that'd be cool. :)
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[11:35:49]  <JohnFlux> daniels: well, at the time i figured i might need to check out more than just xorg, hence the fd.o  directory :-)
 [11:36:07]  <JohnFlux> why doesn't it search for dependencies in the -L  directories then? :)
 [11:36:43]  <JohnFlux> is there a way to solve this without setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH, ld.so.conf or rpath ?
 [11:37:17]  <daniels> hysterical raisins, no doubt.  it's just a warning, basically telling you 'hey, if you tried to run this as is, things would go wrong'.
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[11:37:38]  <daniels> JohnFlux: erm.  there's no way to solve it without any of the three ways of solving it, if that's what you mean.
 [11:37:40]  <JohnFlux> hysterical raisins?  !
 [11:37:54]  <JohnFlux> daniels: google seems to tell me that rpath is bad, 'mkay
 [11:38:00]  <JohnFlux> but I guess I just have to use it
 [11:38:35]  <JohnFlux> it's not just a warning - the build fails
 [11:39:09]  <daniels> yeah, rpath sucks
 [11:39:15]  <daniels> i don't see why a warning would tank your build, though
 [11:39:45]  <JohnFlux^ it spits out undefined references to various libz functions
 [11:40:25]  <JohnFlux> but having the -Wl,-rpath   etc lines there makes it work.  although I have no idea why - I thought rpath was only supposed to be used at runtime
 [11:40:39]  <JohnFlux> so I don't know why I get build-time failures
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[11:42:07]  <daniels> seems odd, unless you're doing static linking.
 [11:44:05]  <JohnFlux> btw, it seems to install makestrs
 [11:44:15]  <JohnFlux> which is strange, it's marked noinst
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[11:44:57]  <JohnFlux> oh, there is a INSTALL_MAKESTRS flag
 [11:47:51]  <JohnFlux> I guess  --disable-install-makestrs   should be set by default if cross compiling
 [11:48:12]  <JohnFlux> or even just disabled by default.  does it have any use ?
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[11:53:12]  <mterry> I'm looking into why X doesn't seem to respect the -novtswitch command (i.e. it still switches to new VT on startup).  To test, I tried commenting out the VT_ACTIVATE lines in hw/xfree86/os-support/linux/lnx_init.c (the only relevant VT_ACTIVATE I could find), but to no avail.  Does anyone know where the VT switch code is?
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[12:30:24]  <pcpa> mterry: I think you also want the -keeptty option, afaik -novtswitch just doesn't block waiting for the vt to activate
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[12:58:27]  <shadas1> can anydody help with sis and EXA?
 [12:58:38]  <shadas1> I'm looking online and it appears that using the EXA driver SiS chipsets are supported starting at 7.1
 [12:59:26]  <shadas1> I have a digimatrix that has a sis 315 chip on it default. I'm wondering if I can use the EXA driver to make it work in 3d?
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[13:00:55]  <ajax> exa is not 3d acceleration.
 [13:01:07]  <shadas1> damn
 [13:02:05]  <shadas1> is there any chance a 3d driver will ever appear for sis/xgi chipsets?
 [13:04:10]  <ajax> odds are very very small but non-zero
 [13:05:16]  <ajax> xgi aren't the most talkative bunch, most of their new kit isn't related to their old stuff, and basically nobody is actively interested in making 3d work on it.
 [13:05:34]  <ajax> so either a superhero comes along... or not.
 [13:06:42]  <liquidAcid> hi there, i was going to upgrade my mesa/drm/X environment to GEM; i'm currently still using mesa with TTM (i915), kernel is 2.6.25 (gentoo patched)
 [13:07:15]  <liquidAcid> i was thinking about upgrading the kernel to 2.6.26 and fetching new stuff from GIT (master), anything i should be aware of?
 [13:07:32]  <jcristau^ that won't give you gem
 [13:07:51]  <liquidAcid^ that's what i was going to ask :)
 [13:08:18]  <liquidAcid> i know there are some (three?) kernel patches available, but i somehow lost the overview about the situation on the ml
 [13:08:59]  <shadas1> thanks axax
 [13:09:06]  <shadas1> ajax sorry
 [13:09:18]  <shadas1> That's kind of what I figured
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[13:10:48]  <liquidAcid> i'm currently using a xorg-server git master snapshot, but i'm thinking about downgrading it to the final release that is probably coming out in a few days (i don't wanna play beta testing for mpx)
 [13:11:36]  <liquidAcid> so question no. 2 is: will it be possible to use mesa git master (without DRI2 of course) with xorg-server-1.5?
 [13:12:16]  <ajax> given that's what we'll probably be shipping in fedora 10, i certainly hope so.
 [13:12:28]  <jcristau> liquidAcid: re: gem, anholt posted the kernel patches to lkml last week; he has a kernel tree with them on git.fd.o, too.
 [13:13:12]  <liquidAcid^ so you advice to use this kernel tree? i was hoping for a small patchset which i can apply to my current gentoo-sources kernel tree
 [13:18:19]  <wereHamster^ make sure to disable PAT in the kernel. It somehow interferes with the GEM kernel
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[13:37:05]  <liquidAcid> wereHamster, thx - but i'm not sure anymore if i want to update (since it looks like i have to replace my entire kernel)
 [13:37:41]  <wereHamster> git-clone anholt's tree, copy your .config over, build and install kernel. It's quite simple
 [13:39:44]  <liquidAcid> that's not what i meant, i don't wanna use a development kernel - and anholt's tree seems to contain a bit more than jsut 2.6.26 plus GEM patches
 [13:46:18]  <wereHamster> yep, it's a 2.7-rc? + gem patches
 [13:46:37]  <wereHamster> 2.6.27-rc? + gem patches
 [13:49:05]  <liquidAcid> hmm :(
 [13:49:17]  <liquidAcid> i think i wait then
 [13:51:45]  <liquidAcid> but thanks again wereHamster :)
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[14:27:04]  <rah_> I have a problem using X from git
 [14:27:10]  <rah_> I seem to have no fonts
 [14:27:20]  <rah_> xfontsel shows only -misc-fixed-...
 [14:27:41]  <rah_> yet I have the following directories, which all include a fonts.dir file with many entries, logged as being used:
 [14:28:30]  <rah_> (**) FontPath set to:        /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,        /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,        /usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi,        /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1,        built-ins
 [14:28:46]  <rah_> any ideas?
 [14:32:15]  <stillunknown> You need to pass --disable-builtin-fonts to configure
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[14:49:53]  <rah_> stillunknown: why does it list those FontPath elements if it ignores them?
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[14:57:47]  <rah_> this is NO GOOD!
 [14:58:01]  <rah_> I expect someone else to patch the problem IMMEDIATELY
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[15:14:07]  <stillunknown> rah_: I have some advice, demanding is a bad idea in general.
 [15:14:47]  <marcheu> isn't he joking ? I hope so at least :)
 [15:16:07]  <ajax> bootstrapping still takes way too god damned long.
 [15:16:42]  <CosmicPenguin> Thats why I wear loafers - no straps
 [15:18:10]  <rah_> marcheu: yes, he is joking :)
 [15:21:50]  <marcheu> ajax: look at what I do, I have ajax build my xserver for me :)
 [15:22:08]  <ajax> normally i would!
 [15:22:18]  <ajax> bootstrapping is a silly idea anyway
 [15:22:33]  <ajax> but it's the sort of thing you have to validate when you're releasing...
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[15:36:05]  <ajax> daniels: happen to remember why we're still building with -fno-strict-aliasing?
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[15:47:03]  <ajax> just ran 1.5rc9999 through our build farm, only found like four strict aliasing warnings, all of which were trivial
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[15:56:11]  <ajax> admittedly that doesn't build everything, just everything worth caring about
 [15:56:51]  <daniels^ twas mesa iirc. glx crash bongs or somesuch.
 [15:57:05]  <ajax> so since we're not building that in-tree anymore...
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[15:57:11]  <daniels> MrCooper might remember?
 [15:57:49]  <daniels> ajax: right.  git blame on configure.ac may enlighten
 [15:58:08]  <ajax> sadly not.  first mention of that flag was in the initial modular commit.
 [15:58:22]  <ajax> i might have to go dig up debrix history
 [15:58:55]  <daniels> jesus. probably safe to patch in fedora and see, then merge?
 [15:59:47]  <daniels> heh. i still have my, yours and krh's trees. let me get home and i'll dig.
 [16:00:04]  <ajax> also i think cfb was sa-hostile?
 [16:00:18]  <daniels> phone keypad + arch = disaster.
 [16:00:36]  <ajax> i had almost forgotten i'd ever used arch
 [16:00:57]  <daniels> probably. xkb and xi at one pmint, iirc.
 [16:02:11]  <daniels> heh. despite a couple of ouerspecifications, and the world's most user-hostile ui, it was awesome.
 [16:02:30]  <daniels> very similar to git.
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[16:40:11]  <ajax> seriously.  all you lfs people are out of your minds.
 [16:40:39]  <ajax> let's rebuild the world for fun!  we'll learn things!
 [16:41:06]  <MrCooper^ note that the strict aliasing warnings have false negatives as well as positives, so the question is if it's worth taking the risk for an unknown (but probably small) increase in performance; even kernel hackers consider strict aliasing a stupid optimization
 [16:41:29]  <CosmicPenguin> Yet another reason why it sucks to be a 586 in an K8 world
 [16:41:59]  <CosmicPenguin> rebuilding isn't a fun adventure, its mandatory
 [16:42:15]  <ajax> MrCooper: i think there's a warn-me-harder mode that will give you only false-positives
 [16:42:38]  <DrNick> last time I asked, that mode would still miss stuff
 [16:42:56]  <MrCooper> yeah I thought so too
 [16:42:58]  <ajax> aaw.
 [16:43:56]  <MrCooper> I suspect we have enough fingers on our hands to count the people who really understand strict aliasing :}
 [16:44:17]  <daniels> i'd be lying if i said i fully understood its implications.
 [16:44:40]  <DrNick> strict aliasing is easy to understand, the hard part is figuring out how to get around it in a compiler approved manner
 [16:44:52]  <ajax> the short summary is "you're not allowed to access a region of memory through two incompatible pointer types"
 [16:45:04]  <ajax> the detail is all in the definition of incompatible
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[16:45:40]  <daniels> right.
 [16:46:29]  <ajax> fortunately the x convention of casting PixmapPtr to DrawablePtr is legal
 [16:48:38]  <MrCooper^ I basically know what it's about as well, but the complexity of the details seems unbound
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[16:51:47]  <MrCooper> maybe benh wants to share his opinion about strict aliasing :)
 [16:51:53]  <wereHamster> ajax: I had a patch that converted all such casts to pPixmap->drawable
 [16:52:04]  <wereHamster> &pPixmap->drawable
 [16:52:08]  <benh> MrCooper: that won't be necessary :-)
 [16:52:09]  <MrCooper> I certainly prefer that
 [16:52:32]  <wereHamster> maybe I still have it
 [16:52:38]  <MrCooper> benh: ajax thinks it's a good idea...
 [16:53:18]  <benh> well, maybe some day around a beer then
 [16:53:27]  <ajax> i think it's not worth turning off if we don't know we need to.
 [16:53:44]  <MrCooper> the question is, can we know?
 [16:53:54]  <benh> well, it can lead to very sneaky bugs and it won't always warn
 [16:54:04]  <benh> for code that used to be perfectly legal C
 [16:55:19]  <MrCooper> I don't think it's worth bothering before measuring it to be a significant win
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[23:51:21]  <reduz_> back!
 [23:51:38]  <reduz_> I have a question... I'm not very sure I understand how to map RGB values to a GC
 [23:52:03]  <reduz_> is there any way i can set specific RGB values for fg/bg in the GC? Also is there RGBA support?
 [23:55:16]  <reduz_> all the examples use WhitePixel and BlackPixel :(
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----- [2008-09-03] -----
 [00:03:15]  <fredrikh> with TrueColor visuals the pixel value is the actual 32bit pixel value (0xxxrrggbb)
 [00:03:34]  <fredrikh> with other visual types it may be an index, and needs to be allocated using XAllocColor
 [00:04:00]  <fredrikh> if you need alpha values you use the Xrender API instead of GC's
 [00:04:51]  <reduz_> XRender replaces GC?
 [00:05:10]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [00:06:27]  <reduz_> great! where can i find a reference/tutorial for using XRender?
 [00:08:04]  <fredrikh> that's a good question... i'd try google :)
 [00:08:37]  <fredrikh> depending on what you want to do with it it's easier to use a front end like cairo though
 [00:08:43]  <reduz_> oh ok :) also, if the display is 16/24 bits, (as in, not paletized or monochrome) is the GC value the same?
 [00:09:01]  <reduz_> I'm just porting a toolkit to X11
 [00:10:39]  <fredrikh> you have to look at the red, green and blue masks in the visual structure to see how to format the pixel value
 [00:11:31]  <reduz_> oh, ok.. where is the visual structure, though?
 [00:12:04]  <reduz_> aahh XGetVisualInfo, nevermind
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[00:12:45]  <Ori_B> daniels: bug 17414
 [00:13:08]  <fredrikh> the DefaultVisual() macro returns the visual for the screen
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[00:20:24]  <reduz_> fredrikh, i see.. but how do i obtain color masks from the Visual?
[00:20:58]  <Ori_B> http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/utilities/visual.html
 [00:21:10]  <Ori_B> reduz_: note the red_mask, green_mask, and blue_mask variables
 [00:21:42]  <Ori_B> are you sure that you don't want to be using Cairo?
 [00:22:14]  <reduz_> i was actually hoping this can be lightweight, so i'd rather not
 [00:22:56]  <reduz_> i can see that XVisualInfo has what I need, but I don't know how to obtain this structure based on the Visual from DefaultVisual()
 [00:25:44]  <Ori_B> er. DefaultVisual *does* give you that structure.
 [00:26:29]  <Ori_B> wait. my mistake.
 [00:26:43]  <Ori_B> yes, XGetVisualInfo.
 [00:28:44]  <reduz_> but It seems that gives me many matching "visuals" ( i have no idea what it means ), also i do't know how to get the XVisualInfo from the screen
 [00:29:10]  <Ori_B> http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/window/visual-types.html
 [00:30:44]  <Ori_B> *bed*
 [00:31:57]  <reduz_> ok, thanks :(
 [00:32:56]  <reduz_> I really don't get this at all.. it seems all I can do is to obtain the supported visuals for a screen. This is now wht i need, I need to obtain the screen CURRENT visualinfo, so i send the colors using that
 [00:33:29]  <reduz_> DefaultVisual() seems to be what i need, but just gives me an opaque Visual pointer i can do nothing with
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[00:35:57]  <fredrikh> reduz_: it's not opaque, it's in the public header file, and it contains the same mask values
 [00:36:10]  <reduz_> oh
 [00:37:38]  <reduz_> the docs said "Xlib uses an opaque Visual structure that contains information about the possible color mapping"
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[00:38:47]  <fredrikh> oh well :)
 [00:39:26]  <reduz_> so i can safely use Visual?
 [00:41:27]  <fredrikh> i'm pretty sure others do, and it's not in an XLIB_ILLEGAL_ACCESS block
 [00:41:41]  <reduz_> oh ok, great thank,thanks!
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[01:31:51]  <icepack> if i wanted to develop something that dealt with capturing screen images and knowing when windows gained or lost focus, would x be the place to start or would qt/gtk be the place?
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[01:48:14]  <reduz_> http://reduz.dyndns.org/x11-1.png <- i feel so n00b and happy atthe same time
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[03:27:27]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:11:02]  <anholt> benjsc: we're chatting about your sysadmin update.  if jhbuild's checkout of the head version of a file from a git tree is the only thing blocking cgit, I could turn my cronjob to export a copy to my web space back on.
 [05:11:02]  <anholt> but keithp says cgit has some segfaulting issues -- are you tracking upstream cgit for it?
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[05:14:12]  <jbarnes> Dr_Jakob: ping
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[05:16:33]  <JohnFlux> anholt: do you use jhbuild?
 [05:16:46]  <anholt> of course not
 [05:16:53]  <anholt> I run debian now, I no longer suffer.
 [05:17:44]  <JohnFlux^ there seems to be a disconnect there
 [05:17:57]  <JohnFlux> why does debian mean that you don't have to use jhbuild?
 [05:20:01]  <anholt> because I just build the pieces I need instead of a full tree.
 [05:20:21]  <anholt> I couldn't do that in freebsd for a long time because the autotools were such a trainwreck.
 [05:21:22]  <JohnFlux> ah
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[05:25:09]  <daniels> anholt: the thing is that the code would be pretty trivial to add to cgit
 [05:25:32]  <daniels> it can already give you the decorated HEAD of a file in any given branch with a pleasant URL structure, but it just needs to be able to give it to you plain
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[05:53:30]  <Dr_Jakob> jbarnes: pong
 [05:55:22]  <jbarnes^ was just wondering where you were earlier :)
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[05:58:21]  <Dr_Jakob> jbarnes: looking at the monkeys
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[05:59:25]  <jbarnes> heh
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[06:03:07]  <MrCooper> the ones in the cage or the ones in the summit room? ;)
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[06:03:22]  <jbarnes> now he's looking at the latter
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[06:42:43]  <johnflux> ajax: you around?
 [06:42:57]  <johnflux> first day of the conference - it's very quiet in here :-)
 [06:44:04]  <johnflux> What's Michel Danzer's nick?
 [06:44:20]  <jbarnes> MrCooper:
[06:44:23]  <johnflux> In the fbdev code, there is a check to make sure that the fbdev parameters haven't changed
 [06:44:27]  <jbarnes> err just MrCooper
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[06:44:44]  <johnflux> specifically one of the checks is that  set->pixclock == req->pixclock
 [06:44:59]  <johnflux> however I'm finding that it has changed, very slightly, because of rounding
 [06:45:51]  <johnflux> does the check really need to be there? :)
 [06:45:58]  <MrCooper^ changed between what was passed into the ioctl and what it returned?
 [06:46:08]  <johnflux^ right
 [06:46:33]  <johnflux> my fbdev driver does:
 [06:46:35]  <johnflux> clkdiv = pixclock / oinfo->gfx_clk_period; pixclock = oinfo->gfx_clk_period * clkdiv;
[06:46:38]  <MrCooper> then it indeed isn't really the mode we wanted, is it?
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[06:46:49]  <johnflux> so the fbdev driver slightly rounds it
 [06:47:30]  <johnflux> MrCooper: I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do to fix this
 [06:49:25]  <johnflux> X rounds pixclock as well
 [06:49:57]  <johnflux> (in xfree2fbdev_timing in fbdevhw.c)    var->pixclock = mode->Clock ? 1000000000/mode->Clock : 0;
[06:50:32]  <johnflux> where Clock appears to be set by  mode->Clock = var->pixclock ? 1000000000/var->pixclock : 0;
[06:50:37]  <johnflux> the result being a slight rounding
 [06:51:08]  <MrCooper^ do you need to use several modes in X or would a single one suffice?
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[06:51:21]  <johnflux> MrCooper: a single one I guess
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[06:51:43]  <johnflux> MrCooper: I can modify the kernel fb driver btw, if it is the fb driver that is wrong
 [06:51:47]  <MrCooper> try not specifying a Modes line in the xorg.conf SubSection "Display" then
 [06:52:18]  <MrCooper> johnflux: IINM it's only supposed to round up, but that doesn't really matter for this
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[06:52:34]  <johnflux> MrCooper: I don't have a xorg.conf file
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[06:53:01]  <MrCooper> hmm, can you put up the Xorg.0.log to look at?
 [06:54:43]  <johnflux> http://pastebin.com/m385b7f7f
 [06:54:45]  <johnflux> MrCooper: ^^
 [06:56:33]  <MrCooper> okay, so I'd tend to consider the framebuffer device broken as it doesn't seem to accept what it returns as currently active mode unchanged
 [06:57:04]  <johnflux^ but my point is that I think it's not unchanged
 [06:57:10]  <johnflux> because X rounds the pixclock
 [06:57:15]  <johnflux> i think
 [06:57:19]  <MrCooper> unless the pixclock actually changes from what's returned by the framebuffer device to what we're setting due to rounding
 [06:57:29]  <MrCooper> have you verified that?
 [06:58:39]  <johnflux> well, I'm stepping through it.  In fbdevHWSetMode,  556             xfree2fbdev_timing(mode, &req_var);                  this changes pixclock from 166662 to 166666
 [06:59:04]  <MrCooper> anyway, I'm not sure the pixclock check is required - could there plausibly be two otherwise identical modes with significantly different pixclocks (and where the pixclock actually matters for the hardware)?
 [06:59:42]  <airlied> for kms i removed clock compare.
 [07:00:35]  <MrCooper> johnflux: the point is, are we passing the same pixclock into FBIOPUT_VSCREENINFO as we got from FBIOGET_VSCREENINFO?
 [07:00:52]  <airlied> actually I did a pico convert on both of the clocks and compared those.
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[07:03:27]  <johnflux> kms?
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[07:03:53]  <MrCooper> kernel modesetting
 [07:04:22]  <MrCooper> (in the DRM)
 [07:05:09]  <johnflux^ I will have a look at the return value of FBIOGET_ in fbdevHWInit?
 [07:05:52]  <johnflux> okay, the FBIOGET_VSCREENINFO return pixclock 1666623
 [07:05:53]  <johnflux> the FBIOGET_VSCREENINFO return pixclock 166662
 [07:06:20]  <johnflux> fbdev2xfree_timing     is then called, which does  mode->Clock = var->pixclock ? 1000000000/var->pixclock : 0;
 [07:07:01]  <MrCooper> I don't care about the intermediate steps, just check what we're passing to FBIOPUT_VSCREENINFO
 [07:07:31]  <johnflux> then fbdevHWSetMode,  xfree2fbdev_timing is called, settings var->pixclock to 166666
 [07:07:33]  <johnflux> so no
 [07:08:12]  <johnflux> MrCooper: we definitely do not pass back in output from FBIOGET_VSCREENINFO  unmodfied to FBIOPUT_VSCREENINFO
 [07:09:13]  <johnflux> fbdevHWInit calls fbdev2xfree_timing   which sets Clock from pixclock, and then fbdevHWSetMode calls xfree2fbdev_timing which sets pixclock.  the resulting circle means pixclock is rounded
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[07:14:22]  <johnflux> MrCooper: what do you think about removing the setting of pixclock in xfree2fbdev_timing?
 [07:14:34]  <MrCooper> wow, floating point sucks
 [07:14:44]  <MrCooper> no, just remove the pixclock check
 [07:14:57]  <johnflux^ okay - is it okay to push the check upstream?
 [07:15:07]  <MrCooper> in fbdev_modes_equal
 [07:15:13]  <johnflux> yep
 [07:15:18]  <MrCooper> you mean the removal of the check?
 [07:15:23]  <johnflux> right
 [07:15:43]  <MrCooper> I think so
 [07:15:43]  <johnflux> I mean, can I commit the removal of the check in xorg?  as opposed to just doing so locally
 [07:15:47]  <johnflux> thanks
 [07:16:27]  <johnflux> MrCooper: btw, the xbox team also have a patch which removes the timing check
 [07:16:35]  <johnflux> because the xbox framebuffer sets the pixclock to zero
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[07:17:39]  <MrCooper> yeah, there's been a discussion about it on the linux-fbdev-devel list recently
 [07:22:18]  <MrCooper> actually, turns out the rounding can be avoided by using 1000000000.0 / foobar...
 [07:23:24]  <MrCooper> so it seems to be integer rounding rather than floating point rounding
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[07:36:48]  <johnflux> Clock is supposed to be a float?
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[07:52:06]  <johnflux> MrCooper: so, shall I put the check back in and change to 10000000000.0  ?
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[08:11:08]  <johnflux> MrCooper: nm, Clock is an int, not a float
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[09:05:54]  <johnflux> btw, switching from kdrive to xorg resulted in a 15% improvement in blitting speed
 [09:05:59]  <johnflux> kdrive fbdev compared to xorg fbdev
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[09:07:41]  <math_b> I've reach max clients by just letting a server running for 24hrs.
 [09:15:04]  <math_b> xrestop says there is a pixmap leak
 [09:15:37]  <johnflux^ in where exactly?
 [09:15:48]  <johnflux> do you know what program is causing the leak?
 [09:15:55]  <math_b> nope
 [09:15:58]  <johnflux^ or are you saying that the leak is in xorg?
 [09:16:47]  <math_b> I just says that xrestop is filled with 200+ zombies entries like that:
 [09:16:52]  <math_b> 254 - <unknown> ( PID:  ?   ):
 [09:16:52]  <math_b> res_base      : ox3000000
 [09:16:52]  <math_b> res_mask      : ox1fffff
 [09:16:52]  <math_b> windows       : 0
 [09:16:52]  <math_b> GCs           : 0
 [09:16:53]  <math_b> fonts         : 0
 [09:16:55]  <math_b> pixmaps       : 1
 [09:16:57]  <math_b> pictures      : 0
 [09:16:59]  <math_b> glyphsets     : 0
 [09:17:01]  <math_b> colormaps     : 0
 [09:17:03]  <math_b> passive grabs : 0
 [09:17:05]  <math_b> cursors       : 0
 [09:17:07]  <math_b> unknowns      : 0
 [09:17:09]  <math_b> pixmap bytes  : 4
 [09:17:11]  <math_b> other bytes   : ~0
 [09:17:13]  <math_b> total bytes   : ~4
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[09:18:26]  <johnflux> math_b: hmm
 [09:18:40]  <johnflux> what version of xrestop?
 [09:18:55]  <johnflux> I fixed a bug in xrestop about 6 months ago
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[09:21:45]  <math_b> 0.4
 [09:21:52]  <math_b> but I doubt it really matters
 [09:22:12]  <math_b> xserver is git head
 [09:23:11]  <math_b> this is not a bug in xrestop as any attempt to connect to the server failed with a max client reached error
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[09:24:21]  <math_b> I wonder is xrestop entries that look likes " <unknown> ( PID:  ?   )"  are signs of a leak of some kinds
 [09:24:46]  <math_b> does that mean a disconnected clent ?
 [09:25:45]  <math_b> if yes, is there any legitimate case where you can still have allocated ressource from a disconnected client ?
 [09:28:20]  <math_b> 7 minutes old gnome session: xrestop -b -m 1 | grep "<unknown>" | wc -l => 6
 [09:28:57]  <johnflux^ *nod*.  The bug i fixed in xrestop was related to determining the pid
 [09:29:08]  <johnflux> you're right that it's probably not the reason
 [09:29:11]  <johnflux> but just saying :-)
 [09:30:10]  <johnflux> math_b: but I can't comment further - I don't know that code
 [09:30:56]  <math_b> yeah... and most of the "X guru" are at the zoo
 [09:31:07]  <johnflux> yeah
 [09:32:01]  <mterry> Can someone give me pointers on how to prevent a driver from taking over the display on X startup?  (via code if necessary)  Is it technically feasible?
 [09:32:18]  <mterry> (i.e. I want the server to startup on a different vt)
 [09:32:45]  <johnflux> by default it starts up on a different vt
 [09:32:52]  <johnflux> do you mean that you don't want it to switch to that vt ?
 [09:33:42]  <mterry^ Right.  -novtswitch doesn't work, and by commenting out the VT_ACTIVATE lines in the linux os-support code, it looks like the keyboard stays on the original VT, but not the graphics.  X still gets drawn on the display
 [09:34:40]  <johnflux^ yeah, someone else complained about that
 [09:34:47]  <johnflux> unless it was you also
 [09:34:49]  <johnflux> earlier today
 [09:34:58]  <mterry^ Probably me.  I did so yesterday in my timezone
 [09:35:20]  <johnflux> ah yeah
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[09:35:48]  <johnflux> mterry: well, not sure.  maybe more luck with using the kernel mode switching?
 [09:35:51]  <johnflux> kms
 [09:36:11]  <mterry^ Hmm, OK.  Do you know if there's a way to turn a virtual frame buffer into a real one?  That might work.  :)
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[09:36:59]  <johnflux> mterry: i don't sorry
 [09:37:09]  <johnflux> the main developers are at conference today
 [09:37:52]  <mterry^ Guh, OK.  Thanks for your help.  What conference?
 [09:38:09]  <mterry> Ah, the developer's summit
 [09:38:13]  <johnflux> :)
 [09:44:35]  <wereHamster> mterry: see the topic -> XDS2008
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[09:45:23]  <mterry> wereHamster: Funny, I read the topic up until that, and zoned out when I saw a link
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[09:46:49]  <ESphynx> hey guys, would repeatingly calling XSetClipMask with the same gc and mask redo the work, or is it likely to be optimized?
 [09:46:58]  <ESphynx> (And would that be driver dependent?)
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[09:56:48]  <keithp> ESphynx: you'll redo the work
 [09:57:34]  <ESphynx> keithp : Hi Keith :) I'm using it for my text drawer, so I'd like to add a if == last ?
 [09:58:09]  <keithp^ check on the client side then
 [09:58:10]  <ESphynx> (Glyps are being drawn as regions of my same bitmap... until I figure out the XRender glyph stuff later :P)
 [09:58:41]  <ESphynx> thanks. I'll try this out, it would mean a major optimization
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[10:07:34]  <johnflux> I have 2 commits to push upstream
 [10:07:42]  <johnflux> how should i do this?
 [10:07:59]  <johnflux> both are already approved-in-concept
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[10:10:49]  <ESphynx> keithp: I didn't get the performance boost I was hoping for :(
 [10:12:23]  <ESphynx> oh, my text output doesn't even use that XSetClipMask
 [10:12:29]  <ESphynx> silly me
 [10:12:45]  <ESphynx> it's strictly XRenderComposite calls
 [10:13:16]  <keithp> good
 [10:13:50]  <ESphynx> it's terribly sluggish though :(
 [10:14:03]  <ESphynx> (nVidia driver)
 [10:14:18]  <ESphynx> they had a bad bug they just fixed in the latest beta
 [10:14:28]  <ESphynx> bug with composite alpha
 [10:14:30]  <johnflux^ what sort of composite operation?
 [10:14:49]  <ESphynx^ I have a 1x1 pixmap for the source and a component alpha only for the mask
 [10:14:49]  <johnflux> the Composite calls take a lot of different flags.  drivers wont accelerate certain combinations
 [10:15:00]  <ESphynx> XRenderComposite(xGlobalDisplay, PictOpOver, xSurface.colorPicture, xBitmap.picture, xSurface.picture, 0, 0, sx, sy, dx, dy, w + (xSurface.xOffset ? 1 : 1), h);
 [10:15:16]  <johnflux^ that should go through a Solid fill then
 [10:15:37]  <ESphynx^ There's a bug if I use XRenderCreateSolidFill with their driver, pinkish spots sometimes... So I use a 1x1
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[10:15:54]  <ESphynx> The same thing with my OpenGL driver renders decently
 [10:16:17]  <johnflux^ maybe they simply don't accelerate 'scaled' blits?
 [10:16:20]  <johnflux> I know that I don't :-)
 [10:16:24]  <ESphynx^ it's not scaled?
 [10:16:35]  <johnflux> well you're going from a 1x1 source to a larger destination
 [10:16:38]  <johnflux> that's a 'scaled'
 [10:16:44]  <ESphynx> arg
 [10:17:15]  <johnflux> personally I think it's a flaw in the way xrender works, and something I want to fix
 [10:17:22]  * ESphynx cheers :P
 [10:17:44]  <ESphynx> I know proper way would be to use glyphs, but I hope to release this version today :P
 [10:18:16]  <stillunknown> glyphs are a special case, you really ought to use the special case path
 [10:19:02]  <ESphynx^ there's nothing so special about glyphs :P
 [10:19:25]  <stillunknown> it's small and you need lots of them
 [10:19:44]  <ESphynx> yeah, but i'm rendering many parts of the same bitmap... So i'm hoping it's not reuploaded again and again
 [10:20:01]  <ESphynx> This has been in OpenGL for years this way...
 [10:20:06]  <ESphynx> been done*
 [10:20:15]  <johnflux> I think it will be reuploaded again and again
 [10:20:16]  <ESphynx> it oughta be optimized
 [10:20:42]  <ESphynx> johnflux: Isn't the bitmap supposed to be on the X server already, and thus on the card already ?
 [10:21:01]  * ESphynx shakes drivers developers a bit :P
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[10:21:15]  <stillunknown> If you create CreatePixmap once and don't hit any sw fallbacks, then it should stay here.
 [10:21:37]  <stillunknown> But as usual, few people know what closed source drivers do.
 [10:21:59]  * ESphynx pokes aaronp  :P
 [10:22:57]  <stillunknown> But are you uploading each glyph every time you need it or caching them yourself?
 [10:23:30]  <ESphynx^ the glyphs are already packed together in a Pixmap
 [10:23:38]  <johnflux> if you call XRenderComposite, doesn't that upload the pixmap each time?
 [10:23:47]  <ESphynx> or is it a picture
 [10:24:05]  <ESphynx> I keep the same picture
 [10:24:08]  <ESphynx> and pixmap
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[10:24:51]  <stillunknown> this pixmap is static content?
 [10:25:04]  <ESphynx> XRenderCreatePicture(xGlobalDisplay, xBitmap.pixmap, format, CPComponentAlpha, &attributes);
 [10:25:16]  <MrCooper^ every Composite call can have a pretty high state checking/setup overhead
 [10:25:18]  <ESphynx> stillunknown: Yeah it's the glyphs... for exampel ascii text will just use a single bitmap
 [10:25:58]  <ESphynx> i'd be hoping for these triangle pushers to just raaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr though it
 [10:26:20]  <MrCooper> we increased text performance by several times in EXA by going from essentially one full-blown Composite call for each glyph to one for each RenderGlyphs (or whatever it's called) call
 [10:26:58]  <ESphynx^ that's what I guess I'll have to do for next release :P I'll suggest using the OpenGL driver in the meantime
 [10:27:22]  <ESphynx> But I still firmly believe there's a lot of place for optimization here.
 [10:27:45]  <ESphynx> I don't think there's any good excuse :P
 [10:27:53]  <MrCooper> possibly, should be up to the driver basically
 [10:28:01]  <stillunknown> You're talking to the wrong people ;-)
 [10:28:08]  <ESphynx> MrCooper: this overhead you're talking about, is mostly in the driver?
 [10:28:16]  <MrCooper> yes
 [10:28:19]  <ESphynx> stillunknown: I'm hoping aaronp is eavesdropping :P
 [10:28:27]  <ESphynx> I already mentioned that in #nvidia :P
 [10:28:50]  <ESphynx> thanks guys.
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[11:55:16]  <aaronp> ESphynx: The nvidia driver has a bit of an aversion to putting small (<= 32x32) pixmaps in vidmem on G80 and higher.  You could be hitting that.
 [11:55:33]  <aaronp> As I've said before, using the glyphs path should be a lot faster.
 [11:55:46]  <aaronp> I'm going to try to fix the 32x32 thing in a future release.
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[11:58:11]  <ESphynx> aaronp: My bitmap is 256 x 128 or bigger I think
 [11:58:30]  <ESphynx> but I'm rendering portions of it only
 [11:58:45]  <aaronp> Oh, it's one image with several glyphs in it?
 [11:58:49]  <ESphynx> i'd be hoping for the whole bitmap to be in memory, not the portions of it
 [11:58:50]  <ESphynx> aaronp: yes
 [11:59:07]  <aaronp> Hmm, that should be okay then.
 [11:59:17]  <ESphynx^ It works quite well in OpenGL (GLX)
 [11:59:19]  <aaronp> You're not using RENDER transforms are you?
 [12:00:02]  <johnflux> or a mask
[12:00:15]  <aaronp> Is this that same app you sent me before, or has it changed since then?
 [12:01:08]  <ESphynx^ I'm not
 [12:01:16]  <ESphynx> it's the same app
 [12:01:26]  <ESphynx> it performs very slowly
 [12:01:45]  <ESphynx> I am using a mask...
 [12:01:58]  <ESphynx> The mask is the glyphs... used with a solid color to render text in any color
 [12:02:01]  <aaronp> What GPU?
 [12:02:06]  <ESphynx> 8800GT
 [12:02:17]  <aaronp> Okay.  I'll give it a try.
 [12:02:27]  <ESphynx^ Btw I still had that problem with the XRenderCreateSolidFill
 [12:02:39]  <ESphynx> I could send you a version with that instead of the 1x1 later if you want
 [12:02:45]  <aaronp> That's bizarre, since they should be exactly the same.
 [12:02:47]  <aaronp> That would be great.
 [12:03:10]  <ESphynx> going to meet a client in a few minutes though
 [12:05:58]  <stringfellow> aaronp: are you aware of any FBO related memory corruption in the nvidia driver?
 [12:06:47]  <aaronp^ Somebody reported some on the forum, but I haven't had a chance to try to reproduce it or file a bug.
 [12:08:28]  <stringfellow> I think I've worked around some issue where the driver would get memory corruption after deleting an FBO with a depth attachment
 [12:08:50]  <aaronp> We should probably move this discussion to #nvidia.
 [12:08:53]  <stringfellow> in general FBOs feel a bit flaky the last few versions though :-/
 [12:08:57]  <johnflux> FBO?
 [12:09:19]  <stringfellow^ framebuffer object
 [12:09:49]  <stringfellow> aaronp: I'm in that channel as well
 [12:11:09]  <johnflux> ajax: http://www.x.org/wiki/ArchitectureToDo   mentions the sarea stuff - those sections probably need to be updated?
 [12:13:43]  <daniels> most of that page could probably be nuked
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[12:19:18]  <math_b> xrestop -b -m 1 | grep "<unknown>" | wc -l => 34 ... sigh
 [12:20:47]  <johnflux^ all I can suggest is to close down the gnome apps one by and one and try to determine the cause
 [12:22:48]  <math_b^ yeah, if was assuming the leak was happening the a window is destroyed or a client is closing it's connection, but maybe not...
 [12:23:49]  <math_b> you are assuming the leaked pixmans will be freed when the guilty application is closed
 [12:24:13]  <ajax> they're certainly supposed to be
 [12:24:27]  <johnflux> "bugs.freedesktop.org uses an invalid security certificate."
 [12:24:40]  <johnflux> firefox won't let me used bugs.freedesktop.org
 [12:24:56]  <ajax> the only time when that's not true is when a) someone else has a reference to that pixmap, b) the client's closedownmode is retain, which basically never happens
 [12:25:18]  <math_b> yeah I was assuming the leak is in the server, but maybe not after all
 [12:25:35]  <wereHamster> johnflux: add an exception
 [12:25:50]  <aaronp> Why is RetainPermanent even allowed?  Who uses it?
 [12:25:50]  <johnflux> wereHamster: yeah
 [12:26:48]  <johnflux> math_b: are you trying it? :)
 [12:27:23]  <ajax> i think RetainPermanent really just exists to make xsetroot kinds of things work
 [12:27:29]  <math_b> yeah
 [12:27:32]  <johnflux^ I did integrate a slightly more advanced version of xrestop into kde's system monitor
 [12:28:12]  <johnflux> although I had to disable it in the release
 [12:28:15]  <johnflux> *last
 [12:29:42]  <math_b> that's not gnome-chat :)
 [12:30:46]  <johnflux> a lot of the gnome apps don't set the PID for the window :/
 [12:31:21]  <math_b> yeah, that bad, I have to find who have a socket to the server by hand
 [12:32:10]  <johnflux> it's probably worth filing bugs against those apps
 [12:32:21]  <johnflux> i filed one against openoffice, but I don't think that's fixed yet
 [12:32:30]  <johnflux> and xclock (which was fixed - go us!)
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[12:33:45]  <math_b> good xclock is such a killer-app compared to openoffice
 [12:34:18]  <johnflux> xclock is awesome :-)
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[12:34:38]  <marcheu> hmm reminds me I wanted to try that WM
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[12:36:55]  <math_b> some gnome app don't set their PID, but others set a wrong one...
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[12:37:41]  <johnflux> math_b: - if you find out which , let me know
 [12:37:52]  <math_b> gnome-screensaver
 [12:38:11]  <johnflux> any idea why it sets it incorrectly?
 [12:38:13]  <math_b> the PID was of by one, I suspect it fork after setting the PID
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[12:39:34]  <math_b> gnome-settings-daemon
 [12:40:43]  <math_b> gnome-power-manager too
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[12:45:46]  <math_b> hum those unkown entries with just 1 pixmap are still there even after closing everything beside a bare xterm
 [12:46:28]  <ajax> so one thing you could do
 [12:46:48]  <ajax> is hack up a little client that goes and finds those pixmaps and blits their content into a window
 [12:46:56]  <ajax> that might give you an idea of what they _are_
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[12:48:40]  <math_b> the size of these pixmaps is 4bytes
 [12:48:49]  <marcheu> ajax: so what about killing backing store ?
 [12:49:07]  <ajax> math_b: heehee.  solid background color perhaps?
 [12:49:14]  <marcheu> (I will volunteer if it's ok)
 [12:49:38]  <stillunknown> Why do you want backing store dead?
 [12:49:39]  <johnflux> ajax: a client is allowed to do that?
 [12:49:44]  <math_b> even CSI's image enhancer won't be able to figure it out
 [12:49:49]  <johnflux> ajax: read pixmaps for other programs?
 [12:49:52]  <marcheu> stillunknown: because it's stupid ?
 [12:50:16]  <ajax> johnflux: of course.  (in the absence of x-selinux or similar,) all X objects are public.
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[12:50:43]  <johnflux> ajax: hmm.  that would be an awesome feature to add to kde system monitor
 [12:51:12]  <ajax> stillunknown: because it's a feature with very odd semantics, and the end result is better achieved with composite.
 [12:51:49]  <ajax> my attempt to implement it _with_ composite is still a bit quirky and wrong, which i guess makes it about as good (or bad) as all the other attempts to implement it.
 [12:52:06]  <ajax> marcheu: so, yeah, i'm pretty well convinced it should just go away.
 [12:52:11]  <marcheu> yup, in composite it makes it slower
 [12:52:18]  <marcheu> anyway I'll write a patch and post it to the list
 [12:52:25]  <ajax> awesome, thanks.
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[12:54:09]  <stillunknown> On the subject of older things, what precisely is a span?
 [12:54:29]  <ajax> a row of pixels, one pixel high and N pixels wide.
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[12:55:33]  <stillunknown> Is there any protocol that uses spans or is it just internal to the server?
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[12:57:08]  <ajax> internal.  mi is written such that you could implement just Get/Set/FillSpans and have it handle the rest.
 [12:57:21]  <jcristau^ i just added some stuff to the Server15Branch page, care to take a look if they're acceptable?
 [12:57:44]  <ajax> framebuffers used to not be memory-mapped, and if you only get a 16 pixel wide aperture at a time, it makes sense for common code to handle that decomposition.
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[12:58:39]  <ajax> jcristau: yeah, those look fine.  server 1.5 by the end of the day, i hope.
 [12:58:46]  <jcristau^ cool
 [12:59:04]  <ajax> Xorg 7.4 (Duke Nukem Forever)
 [12:59:26]  <Duke`> codename ? :D
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[13:02:00]  <ajax> "1.4.1 will be released on November 11th, 2007."
 [13:02:03]  <ajax> hee hee.
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[14:34:52]  <ajax> argh dri
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[14:43:24]  <jcristau> hmm?
 [14:44:33]  <ajax> trying to build 1.5
 [14:45:09]  <ajax> and not having a lot of success.
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[14:49:39]  <cjb> das XServer-Build ist kaput.
 [14:49:55]  <cjb> mieq.c: In function 'mieqProcessInputEvents':
 [14:49:55]  <cjb> mieq.c:320: error: 'handler' undeclared (first use in this function)
 [14:51:27]  <jcristau> looks like 9e70a3cf
 [14:52:02]  <cjb> it's http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=9e70a3cf58c205948f6a415e203d825e9b660d9d, just a missing "mieqHandler handler;"
 [14:53:17]  <ajax> also, fontforge is the best thing ever:
 [14:53:23]  <ajax> Help! Server claimed font
 [14:53:23]  <ajax> -ibm-courier-medium-r-normal--13-0-0-0-m-0-iso10646-1
 [14:53:23]  <ajax> existed in the font list, but when I asked for it there was nothing.
 [14:53:23]  <ajax> I may crash soon.
 [14:53:23]  <ajax> zsh: segmentation fault  fontforge
 [14:53:51]  <jcristau> hah
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[15:29:28]  <Trigger7> hey guys. i'm right now looking into the dependency based boot sequence of debian. i wonder if acpid must be started before X, or if it is ok, if /var/run/acpid.socket is available a bit later. the question is if all desktop managers should wait for acpid, or if they can be started at the same time as acpid
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[15:49:44]  <ajax> cjb: did we ever hook you up with a commit bit?
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[15:50:35]  <cjb> ajax: not yet; https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17372
 [15:50:40]  <ajax> boo to that
 [15:50:55]  * ajax transforms into superhero
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[15:54:54]  <ajax> you've got mail!
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[15:55:13]  <cjb> thanks!
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[16:04:21]  <ajax> so very close to having a release...
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[16:13:02]  <dagb> ajax: a release or release candidate?
 [16:13:44]  <ajax> a release.
 [16:15:42]  <dagb> cool.
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[16:18:56]  <ajax> oh fun, no one ported imstt to pciaccess
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[16:38:51]  <jcristau> ajax: thanks a lot for handling this
 [16:39:00]  <jcristau> the release, i mean :)
 [16:43:35]  * airlied wonders how he missed imstt..
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[16:46:47]  <daniels> ajax: indeed.  take a holiday at some point.  a real one.
 [16:47:24]  <daniels> Trigger7: we don't need acpid.  or shouldn't. hopefully.
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[16:54:15]  <Trigger7> daniels: ok, sounds good. all i know is that X writes a warning into the log, when it can't open /var/run/acpid.socket
 [16:58:13]  <daniels> yeah.
 [16:58:41]  <daniels> you need hald before xorg anyway, and iirc acpid before hald, so shouldn't end up making a difference.
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[16:59:55]  <Trigger7> hm, yeah. sounds reasonable
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[17:11:50]  <reduz-wrk> Question! XImage resides on client side, and XPixmap on server side,right? I can't see much difference between them
 [17:14:02]  <daniels> well, yeah, the difference is just whose memory they're in.
 [17:15:37]  <reduz-wrk> ah I see,, i'm a bit lost with the "depth" value of the pixmap, i thought it would be like opengl, where the server will just allocate internally wathever it can handle, but it seems i need to somehow make sure the server supports a given depth?
 [17:17:49]  <daniels> think of a depth as a format, and a visual as a config.  you pick your visual, and the depth follows from there.
 [17:18:07]  <daniels> DefaultVisual(screen) is not caring about the config.
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[17:22:20]  <reduz-wrk> so can I just use DefaultVisual() info to create my pixmaps? I also can't really seem to tell the depth from it though, only colormask and bits_per_rgb seem useful
 [17:22:21]  <ajax> daniels: after whichever of rhel5.3 and f10 finishes last, i'm disappearing for about a week
 [17:22:34]  <ajax> need to figure out where to disappear _to_, but.
 [17:23:59]  * cjb is considering Buenos Aires.
 [17:27:04]  <cjb> I might even eat meat there.  I hear they're all about the grass-fed happy cows.
 [17:29:15]  <reduz-wrk^ yes, warranted happy cows until the time they become hamburger (tm)
 [17:29:30]  <cjb^ that's fine with me
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[17:30:19]  <reduz-wrk> when going to mainland, pretty much all you see in the road is cows, cows, cows and more cows and green pastures until the horizon
 [17:32:55]  <reduz-wrk> ok one more question, how do I send data to a pixmap from the client? I mean what if i want to set a pixel?
 [17:33:04]  <reduz-wrk> (or region)
 [17:38:29]  <ajax> the pixmap is the description of the pixels: number of significant bits per pixel, width, height...
 [17:38:34]  <ajax> the image is the pixels themselves.
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[18:38:23]  <stillunknown> ajax: Is it allowed to use fb code from mi?
 [18:38:37]  <ajax> generally not.
 [18:39:32]  <stillunknown> What are the conditions mi code is expected to be useable?
 [18:39:50]  <ajax> mi's not allowed to make assumptions about how pixels are stored
 [18:41:30]  <stillunknown> So mi on it's own can do nothing?
 [18:41:53]  <stillunknown> Since it always relies on accessor functions of some kind.
 [18:42:00]  <ajax> really all mi does is decompose rendering to the point where it could be accomplished by get/set/fillspans, yes.
 [18:42:18]  <ajax> or some other gc hook
 [18:42:52]  <ajax> huzzah, everything builds.
 [18:43:12]  <stillunknown> any idea why miCopyArea is so concerned over order when src == dst?
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[18:44:04]  <ajax> because that means the source and dest regions can overlap
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[18:45:58]  <ajax> imagine you're blitting a region from the southeast corner to the northwest, and they overlap, and you walk the spans from top to bottom.
 [18:46:13]  <ajax> and think about what the result will look like.
 [18:46:33]  <stillunknown> I would be wondering why you're even doing such an operation.
 [18:47:21]  <stillunknown> except maybe the scrolling case
 [18:47:48]  <ajax> or moving a window from bottom right to top left of your screen...
 [18:48:44]  <stillunknown> I thought that just results in a redraw on the application side?
 [18:49:05]  <stillunknown> (in a non-composite world)
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[18:49:42]  <ajax> nope.  experimental proof: sigstop the application, grab the titlebar and drag the window around.
 [18:50:25]  <ajax> note valid contents, until you move it partially offscreen or occlude it with another window.  the corruption you see then is in the regions we've generated exposures for.
 [18:51:30]  <stillunknown> Was it such a performance win back then?
 [18:51:36]  <ajax> it's a performance win _now_
 [18:52:55]  <ajax> again, experimental proof: hack your server to do nothing in ->MoveWindow except return the window's region.  that'll trigger whole-window exposures on every move.
 [18:53:06]  <ajax> you will hate it.
 [18:53:23]  <ajax> actually it probably won't look that bad, but it'll certainly burn more cpu
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[18:53:55]  <stillunknown> Does this still happen for the composite manager case?
 [18:54:23]  <ajax> compositing just changes the rules so we lose pixel contents even less than before.
 [18:55:46]  <ajax> blits within a single surface need to be directionally aware, regardless of whether compositing is happening.
 [18:57:30]  <DrNick> another example would be a virtual terminal, and you just moved everything up in order to append a new line
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[18:59:53]  <stillunknown> Some cases of spans seem easy to replace, but others like arcs seem less easy.
 [19:06:41]  <stillunknown> ajax: spans even seem natural for some purposes, except maybe the externally imposed size limitations
 [19:14:10]  <ajax> xorg-server-1.5.0 archives ready for distribution:
[19:14:10]  <ajax> xorg-server-1.5.0.tar.gz
 [19:14:10]  <ajax> xorg-server-1.5.0.tar.bz2
 [19:14:14]  <ajax> yay.
 [19:14:29]  <CosmicPenguin> flying pigs not included
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[19:20:36]  <cavassin> ajax: yay 1.5.0 :)
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[19:30:50]  <cjb> ajax: congrats!
 [19:32:35]  <cjb> hm, did you get the right patchset from Daniel Drake?  I think he mentioned that the patch you took upstream was pessimal to the one he supplied, or that it was heading that way.
 [19:32:44]  <cjb> I'll poke him to check
 [19:32:56]  <ajax> the shmputimage one?
 [19:33:00]  <cjb> yeah
 [19:33:27]  <cjb> I thought I heard that we had two rendering bugs, and that it turned out that the one he supplied fixes both and the one you took only fixes one
 [19:33:37]  <cjb> but might have misheard, and he might still be debugging
 [19:34:04]  <ajax> i think the only patch he definitely identified was in the shmputimage path, and only fixed the cursor rendering and not the glyph weirdness
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[19:34:40]  <CosmicPenguin> did he fix the glyph wierdness, or just identify it as a known bug?
 [19:34:53]  <ajax> i also remember MrCooper saying he wanted the ability to wrap ShmPutImage back in master since the damage changes there make it doable again, but i remain unconvinced of his argument that it can accelerate more things than how i did it.
 [19:35:02]  <ajax> it is, at any rate, not a release blocker ;)
 [19:35:37]  <cjb> okay, he says you're all good
 [19:35:47]  <ajax> huzzahs!
 [19:35:58]  <ajax> thanks for double-checking
 [19:36:08]  <cjb> except for the glyph weirdness but you're on your own with that because we're just taking a backport.
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[19:36:35]  <cjb> .. and it applies to master, not 1.5
 [19:38:57]  <ajax> wahoo, fedora rebase to 1.5.0 looks good to go too.
 [19:40:31]  <ajax> "please check the above cvs diff"
 [19:40:45]  <ajax> i'm amazed by whoever changed cvs-import.sh to emit that
 [19:41:00]  <ajax> clearly someone who never has material amounts of diff to review
 [19:42:05]  <jcristau^ mind to 'git push origin xorg-server-1.5.0'? :)
 [19:42:29]  <ajax> odd, the announcify script should have done that
 [19:42:31]  <ajax> pushed, sorry about that
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[19:44:55]  <ajax> yeah, wtf.  it totally does that.
 [19:45:01]  <ajax> thanks for being awesome, git.
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[19:46:41]  ***  ajax has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
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[19:51:27]  <ajax> hooray for chainbuilding
 [19:51:34]  <ajax> i'm outta here, later all.
 [19:51:39]  <CosmicPenguin> congrats
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[20:47:42]  <benjsc> anholt: there's other features not supported via cgit as well:  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16794
 [20:48:41]  <benjsc> though I note it now supports url display
 [20:50:08]  <benjsc> and yeah, I'm tracking upstream. We're still running stable that's about 8 months old now - lots of changes since
 [20:50:36]  <benjsc> intend to implement missing functionalty when I get some time
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[20:53:36]  <jg> ajax: cjb's dangerous now ;-)
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[20:55:20]  <jg> heh.  speaking of the dangerous devil...
 [20:55:50]  <jg> cjb has arrived.
 [20:56:34]  <cjb> ruh roh
 [20:56:39]  <cjb> nobody saw me do it.
 [20:56:41]  <cjb> what's up?
 [20:57:00]  <jg> just noted ajax giving you commit....
 [20:57:14]  <cjb> ah, yeah.
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[22:56:41]  <ilikenwf> what provides XInput.h? I can't seem to find it
 [23:04:21]  <cjb^ source level or package level?
 [23:04:33]  <cjb> it goes from xorg/lib/libXi/include to include/X11/extensions
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[23:08:52]  <ilikenwf> source
 [23:08:58]  <ilikenwf> but it's not that now
 [23:09:20]  <ilikenwf> i may have it figured out
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[23:40:36]  <ilikenwf> rror: X11/X.h: No such file or directory
 [23:40:38]  <ilikenwf> help?
 [23:41:02]  <cjb> get some X headers?
 [23:43:31]  <ilikenwf> yep
 [23:43:37]  <ilikenwf> what's the git repo name?
 [23:43:39]  <ilikenwf> i gotta be sure
 [23:43:50]  <ilikenwf> darnit
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[23:48:48]  <ilikenwf> cjb: any idea which git repo has that?
 [23:49:06]  <cjb> x11proto
 [23:49:14]  <ilikenwf> grr
 [23:49:18]  <ilikenwf> i installed that
 [23:49:25]  <ilikenwf> i guess i need to work on my pkgbuild (archlinux
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[23:51:20]  <ilikenwf> thanks
 [23:52:04]  <ilikenwf> xproto?
 [23:55:07]  <ilikenwf> d'oh
 [23:55:11]  <ilikenwf> the pkgbuild was building xinit
 ----- [2008-09-04] -----
 [00:10:27]  <ilikenwf> glut_input.c:22:35: error: X11/extensions/XInput.h: No such file or directory
 [00:11:58]  <ilikenwf> help?
 [00:13:10]  <cjb> we did that already.
 [00:13:22]  <cjb> maybe you should ask archlinux people?
 [00:13:36]  <ilikenwf> i have xproto
 [00:13:37]  <ajax> maybe you should get a packaging system that understands buildrequires?
 [00:14:27]  <ilikenwf> it's not xproto
 [00:14:44]  <cjb^ I told you XInput.h was in libXi a few scrollbacks ago.
 [00:15:00]  <ajax> bling:~% rpm -qvf /usr/include/X11/extensions/XInput.h
[00:15:00]  <ajax> xorg-x11-proto-devel-7.4-1.fc10.noarch
 [00:15:01]  <ilikenwf> ...forgive my ignorance and tiredess
 [00:15:12]  <ajax> so, my guess would be inputproto, not libXi
 [00:15:43]  <cjb> ah, yeah, that was the question about where it is in git.
 [00:15:49]  <cjb> ilikenwf: build *proto.  :)
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[00:46:29]  <ilikenwf> brb
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[02:07:38]  <geaaru> hi, i have a gentoo and i compiled xorg-server from git. With last version i have two problems....1. my x200M cards doesn't work so well (i see green and red lines when i try to see video)... 2. some keyboard buttons doesn't work (like XF86Calculator, arrows, etc.). I tried to see with xev if event are handled and yes i see its but if i try to set a command with a special button, button isn't handled for example with
 [02:07:38]  <geaaru> compiz settings manager
 [02:08:26]  <geaaru> problem about second point could be a problem connected with input-keyboard driver or not?
 [02:09:20]  <geaaru> (while for point 1 i use mesa git version with xcb support (without xcb i can't use compiz))
 [02:10:49]  <geaaru> could be a problem with xmodmap? i trying to recompile it...
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[03:11:36]  <whot> geaaru: if you see the event in xev but not in compiz I'd wager my guess on a compiz bug
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[03:13:01]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:14:43]  <geaaru> mmm... but doesn't work still page up and page down in gnome-terminal... and before xorg-update i haven't this problem
 [03:18:00]  <geaaru> it is strange because if i try to handled page up and page down with xev
 [03:18:23]  <geaaru> i see keysym 0xffaf, KP_Divide and keysym 0xff67, Menu
 [03:18:47]  <geaaru> it seems that is changed mapping of keys
 [03:19:45]  <geaaru> it is this problem, compiz it is configured with correct keysym and so now that this keysym are changed command aren't handled correctly
 [03:19:59]  <geaaru> keysym are defined on xorg-server tree?
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[03:42:21]  <tjaalton> is it even theoretically possible to have multiple bitdepths on the same xserver on different workspaces etc?
 [03:43:06]  <tjaalton> obviously not now, but how drastic changes would that need? (just say no and I'll close the request :)
 [03:43:34]  <maniac103^ workspaces as in WM workspaces?
 [03:43:42]  <tjaalton> yes
 [03:43:52]  <tjaalton> not separate server
 [03:43:54]  <tjaalton> s
 [03:44:35]  <maniac103> as WM workspaces are just the result of some window shifting around (viewports) or unmapping (desktops), I'd say: No, impossible
 [03:44:49]  <tjaalton> yeah, that's what I thought
 [03:44:51]  * maniac103 is no X server code expert, though, just WM developer ;-)
 [03:51:18]  <MrCooper> 'workspace depth' doesn't really make sense anyway; depth is a property of each window, and different depths are possible with compositing
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[03:52:51]  <MrCooper> (except for the root / composite overlay windows obviously)
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[03:53:34]  <tjaalton> the guy who asked that saw a video of BeOS where that is possible, but.. :)
 [03:53:43]  <tjaalton> s/is/was/
 [03:53:46]  <maniac103> ... which makes it probably possible using desktops, but impossible using viewports
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[04:23:12]  <aaronp> tjaalton: Workstation-class hardware often has an overlay that allows 8- or 16-bit windows on a 24-bit desktop.
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[04:54:41]  <johnflux> Hi all
 [04:54:56]  <johnflux> I googled, but I can't find how to submit patches
 [04:55:05]  <johnflux> is there an official way?
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[04:57:06]  <airlied> email them to xorg list and/or attach them to a bug
 [04:57:33]  <johnflux> which is preferred?
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[05:02:52]  <dr-xorg> hi
 [05:02:52]  <dr-xorg> can anybody tell me how to disable dri2 when building mesa-7.1?
 [05:03:25]  <johnflux> http://lists.freedesktop.org/ is down :-)
 [05:03:25]  <johnflux> dr-xorg: hey
 [05:03:31]  <johnflux> --disable-dri2
 [05:03:32]  <johnflux> :-)
 [05:03:45]  <johnflux> (I don't know why it's not listed in the configure help)
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[05:05:09]  <dr-xorg> johnflux: it somehow still bombs when building; configure/autogen.sh line:
 [05:05:09]  <dr-xorg> ./configure --prefix=/opt/Xorg --with-dri-driverdir=/opt/Xorg/lib/xorg/modules/dri --disable-dri2 
[05:05:25]  <dr-xorg> dri2.c:125: error: 'xDRI2ConnectReply' has no member named 'sareaHandle'
 [05:05:41]  <johnflux> the sarea stuff was deleted recently
 [05:05:56]  <dr-xorg> (shouldn't even get there with --disable-dri2, should it?)
 [05:06:04]  <airlied> new dri2proto maybe.
 [05:06:27]  <johnflux> dr-xorg: do you have the latest checkout?
 [05:06:41]  <johnflux> the dri2.c  thing was fixed 2 days ago I think
[05:06:42]  <dr-xorg> my dri2proto is from git checkout abaout half an hour or so ago ...
 [05:07:03]  <johnflux^ i can only suggest to make clean and update your sources :)
 [05:07:14]  <dr-xorg> maybe trying to delete and clone it and see if it persists ...
 [05:07:31]  <dr-xorg> johnflux: yeah, thought s.th. along those lines ...
 [05:08:38]  <johnflux> grep sarea ./src/glx/x11/dri2.c                 
[05:08:38]  <johnflux> char **driverName, char **busId, unsigned int *sareaHandle)
[05:08:46]  <johnflux> that's the only match I have
 [05:08:54]  <johnflux> (i'm guessing for backwards compatibility)
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[05:10:48]  <dr-xorg>                 char **driverName, char **busId, unsigned int *sareaHandle)
 [05:10:48]  <dr-xorg>     *sareaHandle = rep.sareaHandle;
 [05:10:48]  <dr-xorg>     return rep.sareaHandle != 0;
 [05:11:12]  <johnflux^ yeah you don't have the latest checkout
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[05:11:29]  <johnflux> dr-xorg: do you have any changes?
 [05:11:33]  <johnflux> you could do a hard reset
 [05:11:39]  <jcristau^ he said 7.1, though
 [05:11:42]  <dr-xorg+ your grep in mesa-7.1 as checked out ... you're on master then?
 [05:11:50]  <dr-xorg> jcristau: yes, indeed ...
 [05:12:29]  <jcristau> someone should probably remove the dri2 stuff from mesa_7_2_branch, if that's not done already
 [05:12:52]  <johnflux^ ah sorry
 [05:12:58]  <dr-xorg> (I wanted a test compile of the server-1.5.0 setup, which SHOULD work w. mesa-7.1 I heard :) )
 [05:13:05]  <johnflux^ it's usually best to not listen to me :)
 [05:13:21]  <jcristau+ it does work, with the old dri2proto
 [05:13:47]  <dr-xorg^ how old should it be ...?
 [05:13:59]  <jcristau^ 1.1
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[05:14:10]  <dr-xorg> I'll try ...
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[05:15:21]  <dr-xorg> (takes a bit in my setup, no breath-holding pleez .... )
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[05:55:30]  <dr-xorg> jcristau: yes, builds fine with dri2proto = 1.1. thank you.
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[07:23:46]  <johnflux> what's up with the servers today?
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[07:31:14]  <johnflux> KAA had a prepareBlend  etc set of hooks
 [07:31:20]  <johnflux> which EXA doesn't
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[07:38:24]  <tjaalton> is mi used for mouse/kbd and not evdev? there are plenty of bugs with "mieqEnequeue: out-of-order valuator event; dropping." errors, where the server just hangs. switching to evdev fixed it for some
 [07:38:48]  <johnflux> http://www.xfree.org/current/ddx.html  <-- wth
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[07:47:46]  <daniels> tjaalton: those errors just mean the server is somehow stuck in an infinite loop: the main thread is wedged somewhere, but the SIGIO handler still works.
 [07:49:08]  <tjaalton^ ok, so it's more like a consequence than the reason
 [07:50:56]  <daniels> yep.
 [07:52:53]  <tjaalton> frustrating to see a bunch of me-too's with different hardware than the original reporter, "so it must not be a driver bug"
 [07:54:09]  <stillunknown> You can try attaching to xorg with gdb and see where it's gone wrong.
 [07:54:34]  <tjaalton> try telling that to the joe-average ;)
 [07:55:08]  <tjaalton> it's all documented, but users are lazy
 [07:55:19]  <stillunknown> The joe avarage should have a sysadmin ;-)
 [07:55:32]  <tjaalton> besides that normally requires another box to ssh from
 [07:56:43]  <stillunknown> It's the only way to go forward.
 [07:57:55]  <stillunknown> Anyway who is their own sysadmin, should learn to use gdb.
 [07:58:05]  <johnflux> oh, TTM is being done by tungsten graphics?
 [07:58:06]  <stillunknown> If they care.
 [07:58:09]  <johnflux> that's awesome
 [08:00:44]  <stillunknown> I wonder if they're still working on it.
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[08:49:01]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: why wouldn't we care?
 [08:50:02]  <stillunknown^ the "if they care" referred to people learning to use gdb
 [08:50:17]  <MrCooper> ah
 [08:50:50]  <stillunknown> Although i do wonder if ttm is still being developed by the original authors.
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[08:51:16]  <stillunknown> I take it you have some link to tungsten graphics?
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[08:51:48]  <johnflux> stillunknown: I was just reading http://www.rojtberg.net/67/exa-uxa-dri-gem-ttm/
 [08:54:40]  <stillunknown> Lately i've noticed that debugging X puts gdb into asm mode, in places that isn't asm code, any idea why?
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[09:21:22]  <johnflux> is GEM still being worked on ?
 [09:21:34]  <johnflux> is GEM now favoured over TTM?
 [09:25:13]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: yes, it's my employer :)
 [09:25:52]  <MrCooper> and yes, we are still working on the TTM internals, and it looks like they'll be used for radeon GEM as well - that should serve as a nice brain exploder for some people ;)
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[09:30:22]  <johnflux> MrCooper: can you use the TTM internals and stick the GEM api on top?
 [09:30:31]  <johnflux> MrCooper: or am I talking nonscense?
 [09:30:44]  <johnflux> nonsense
[09:31:48]  <MrCooper> yeah, it's possible
 [09:34:48]  <johnflux^ but so far the 'fight' between GEM and TTM is far from over?
 [09:35:00]  <johnflux> does it make sense for both to survive?
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[09:36:31]  <MrCooper> no idea and I think so
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[09:45:40]  <Company> question to the keyboard masters: is there a way to ask X what key on a keyboard was pressed?
 [09:46:08]  <Company> i want "the key next to the return key", not "the \ key"
 [09:46:24]  <Company> s/i want/ flash wants/
 [09:46:54]  <wereHamster> no
 [09:46:59]  <alanc> XKB geometry theoretically knows that, but assumes people make geometries of every keyboard, which most don't bother with
 [09:47:22]  <Company> crap
 [09:47:54]  <Company> i guess i gotta look what windows APIs flash uses
 [09:48:05]  <wereHamster> I know the qemu people tried that, but failed misarably (eg. qemu on a xserver using evdev drivers doesn't work properly)
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[09:48:25]  <alanc> I'd be surprised if windows has physical layout information for most random USB keyboards
 [09:48:28]  <Company> yeah, that's rouhly the problem i'm looking at
 [09:48:45]  <alanc> though it probably assumes most follow a rough standard layout
 [09:48:49]  <Company^ they just don't change the hw keycodes
 [09:49:01]  <Company> which is what i'm after
 [09:49:26]  <Company> i know the linux flash player never works properly for various flash games
 [09:49:34]  <Company> becuase it just reports the hw keycode
 [09:49:36]  <alanc> aren't USB keycodes character based, not location based?
 [09:49:58]  <geaaru> hi, i have still problem with keyboard.... i try to execute xorg-server without compiz but nothings. I see one thing, if i do a login as root problem with keyboard there isn't, probably is a problem with a library
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[09:50:01]  <geaaru> but what's?
 [09:50:07]  <Company> no idea
 [09:50:20]  <tjaalton> alanc: hey, you added the patch to xserver autoconfiguration to support multiple drivers for a given pci id, but the fallback-stuff is missing. have you worked on that?
 [09:50:31]  <Company> i just know that prior to intrepid, all my keyboards worked fine with hw keycodes
 [09:50:44]  <geaaru> could be a problem with some configuration files?
 [09:51:18]  <alanc> tjaalton: I thought the fallback stuff was in what I committed - what's missing?
 [09:51:46]  <daniels> Company: xkb geometry is theoretically that.
 [09:51:51]  <tjaalton> alanc: well for instance if the driver on top of the list is missing it fails :)
 [09:52:28]  <tjaalton> that's why the nvidia patch would not have worked at all
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[09:52:36]  <tjaalton> if it was not installed
 [09:52:53]  <Company> daniels: i dislike the "theoretically" part
 [09:53:01]  * Company wonders what wine does
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[09:53:36]  <alanc> tjaalton: hmm, I swear that worked when I tested - I can't really check here/now - send me mail and I'll look into it when I'm back in my own time zone
 [09:53:40]  <daniels> Company: well, it's there, but we don't have the huge amount of data required.
 [09:53:52]  <daniels> it's almost always accurate, since pretty much everyone has the base layout, but may not be absolutely perfect.
 [09:53:58]  <daniels> why do you want to know?
 [09:54:00]  <tjaalton> alanc: I've only tried it on 1.5 + that patch, so maybe I'm missing something?
 [09:54:01]  <wereHamster> how can xkb know the geometry if its a evdev keyboard? The input evdev interface doesn't export that information AFAIK
 [09:54:23]  <daniels^ we just assume pc105, but that's why xk-c changed to having evdev as a ruleset rather than a model.
 [09:54:24]  <Company^ flash - swfdec aims to mirror adobe flash on windows xp/vista
 [09:54:42]  <daniels> wereHamster: so you can specify a model as you do today, if you want geom.
 [09:54:47]  <mjg59> We can assume pc105 and go from there, but that's about it
 [09:54:50]  <daniels> Company: okay.  how exactly? assume i'm not a flash hacker. ;)
 [09:55:10]  <mjg59> There's no effective way of getting physical layout. The kernel doesn't know that.
 [09:55:34]  <mjg59> And it gets even more miserable with multiple keyboards...
 [09:55:35]  <daniels> right, but we can know in userspace, e.g. dmi, lsusb output.
 [09:55:42]  <Company^ flash has a Key.getCode() function, that returns the "code" of the key that was pressed.
 [09:55:53]  <daniels> but yeah, you start failing when you get to wireless keyboards, where the usb output is something like 'Logitech USB RECEIVER'.
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[09:55:58]  <daniels> Company: er, yeah ...
 [09:56:06]  <daniels> this is the keycode in X.
 [09:56:07]  <Company^ the code maps roughly to keys on my keyboard, no matter if i run it as german or us layout
 [09:56:11]  <mjg59> Yeah, which will be the windows keycode
 [09:56:15]  <daniels> Company: this is very true for X also.
 [09:56:32]  <mjg59+ The keymap maps from keycodes to keysyms
 [09:56:46]  <daniels+ the keycode for the key to the right of tab will be exactly the same, no matter whether the keysym is Q (qwerty/qwertz) or A (azerty).
 [09:56:54]  <Company^ right, but i need to figure out which key corresponds to which keycode, and evdev keycodes are different
 [09:57:19]  <wereHamster> XKeycodeToKeysym() ?
 [09:57:46]  <daniels> Company: yes, that's why we give you the keymap.
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[09:58:34]  <daniels> the KeyPress events only give you the keycode.  from there, the client's job is to look at the keymap and interpret accordingly.
 [09:58:56]  <daniels> so you already _have_ the entire map that describes in every possible way, every possible attribute of every key.
 [09:59:06]  <daniels> you get the keymap at every level, how it relates to other keys, etc.
 [09:59:13]  <daniels> x doesn't hide _any_ information there, for better or worse.
 [09:59:32]  * Company thinks
 [10:00:37]  <geaaru> on my error i have a keysym wrong for pageup and pagedown button but i don't understand why?
 [10:00:42]  <Company> i need to figure out a mapping from hw keycode to flash keycode, so i take a us keymap, translate the hw keycode to the keysym and translate the keysym back to the flash keycode
[10:01:30]  <wereHamster> are flask keycodes predefined (Like 1 == the escape key, 2 == F1 etc)?
 [10:01:38]  <Company^ yes
 [10:02:22]  <Company> http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/documentation/swfdec/swfdec-Enumerations-and-Types.html#SwfdecKey
 [10:02:35]  <wereHamster> then you have the same problem as the qemu folks. If you manage to reliably solve it, please tell me or them
 [10:02:46]  <jcristau> sort of like keysyms, then
 [10:03:08]  <Company> is there an X function to get the US keymap?
 [10:03:50]  <mjg59> What do you mean by the US keymap?
 [10:04:23]  <Company^ the one that maps from keycodes to US keysyms
 [10:04:28]  <mjg59> Which keycodes?
 [10:04:43]  <mjg59> The keycodes generated by the specific keyboard the user is using?
 [10:04:47]  <Company> yes
 [10:04:49]  <wereHamster> make a function XKeyCodeToFlashKeycode() where you do s=XKeycodeToKeysym(); switch s: case XK_Backspace: return SWFDEC_KEY_BACKSPACE; ...
 [10:05:02]  <wereHamster> or something like that
 [10:05:03]  <mjg59> So you also need to look at the input device that you're getting the keycodes from...
 [10:05:15]  <Company^ right
 [10:05:41]  <mjg59> I guess you need to look at the geometry of that input device and then parse the xkb data for that keyboard type
 [10:06:01]  <Company> omg
 [10:06:54]  <Company> i guess i'll just do an evdev keycode => flash keycode mapping and wait until other people file bugs
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[10:07:48]  <whot> Company: I thought you want the keysym mappping, not the keycode?
 [10:09:04]  <Company^ i want the same mapping windows flash uses, and it does not use keysyms, but (likely) windows keycodes
 [10:10:19]  <Company> i guess i need to figure out properly what windows flash does
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[10:11:00]  <whot> Company: that might help
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[10:11:41]  <jcristau> what can you sensibly do with a keycode other than looking up a keysym anyway?
 [10:12:03]  <Company^ hardcode the controls for your flash game
 [10:12:04]  <marcheu+ emulators
 [10:12:09]  <whot+ you can trick gnome into making screenshots :)
 [10:12:23]  <Company> if (Key.getCode() == 27) fire ();
 [10:12:36]  <jcristau^ i said sensibly
 [10:12:37]  <Company> people get annoyed if they can't fire their guns
 [10:12:39]  <daniels^ you could build your own US keymap (use XkbRF_GetNamesProp, change the layout to us, XkbRF_GetComponents for the components, then XkbGetKeyboardByName with those components, but with load = False).
 [10:12:48]  <marcheu> jcristau: emulators aren't sensbible ? :)
 [10:12:56]  <daniels> Company: so if you desperately know how the physical keyboard relates to the US layout, that's how you get it.
 [10:13:05]  <daniels> whot: heh
 [10:13:31]  <daniels> Company: but yeah, i think we could better help you with a better-defined problem space. :)
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[10:15:05]  <Company> do those xkb functions have docs somewhere?
 [10:15:33]  <jcristau> marcheu: i'm not quite sure :)
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[10:16:04]  <marcheu> jcristau: it's convenient to be able to map the emulated keyboard on the physical keyboard
 [10:16:11]  <marcheu> granted that's the only use I know of
 [10:16:24]  <daniels> Company: some of them do: http://www.x.org/docs/XKB/XKBlib.pdf, iirc
 [10:16:36]  <jcristau> marcheu: ok, i can understand that one
 [10:16:36]  <daniels> except that www.x.org is dead
 [10:16:49]  <daniels> http://www.google.com/search?q=xkblib.pdf
 [10:16:56]  <daniels> any of those will do, but they probably don't describe XkbRF_*
 [10:17:01]  <daniels> ivan pascal's site does a good job of that, though.
 [10:19:13]  <daniels> sigh
 [10:19:21]  <daniels> ilo broken again on annarchy.
 [10:19:30]  <whot^ btw. 32 bit keycodes with XI2, will that screw us with xkb?
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[10:20:06]  <daniels> whot: yeah, that requires a corresponding bump in XKB, and also to either bump or ditch XKM (i know which i prefer, but that requires libxkbcomp).
 [10:21:04]  <whot^ good. so XI2 is married to XKB2 then. I can deal with that
 [10:22:00]  <whot> s/deal/live/
 [10:22:09]  <daniels> till cirrhosis do us part.
 [10:22:45]  <whot> that could indeed become an issue
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[10:23:59]  <daniels> hmm, annarchy is actually semi-responding.  just dog slow.
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[10:29:33]  <benjsc> daniels: any idea what was the cause of annarchy freeking out?
 [10:29:49]  <daniels^ ah, good timing. :)
 [10:29:52]  <daniels> trying to find out now ...
 [10:30:17]  <daniels> can't get a pty thus far.
 [10:31:02]  <Company^ http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms927178.aspx - i want those :)
 [10:31:14]  <benjsc> hmm, perhaps it's just network I'm logged in - load is 5
 [10:32:24]  <Company> according to msdn, the keyboard driver is responsible for mapping hw keycodes to virtual keycodes
 [10:32:53]  <daniels> benjsc: yeah, we appear to be coming down from i/o hell.
 [10:33:03]  <daniels> Company: well, yes, that's optionally true.
 [10:33:25]  <daniels> with evdev, you get keyboard scancodes from the hardware, then those get translated into evdev keycodes (standardised to US layout, effectively), which X then passes to the client.
 [10:33:42]  <benjsc> hmm, seems google/msn are crawling cgit again.. surely it can't just be that..
 [10:33:44]  <daniels> but there's no defined list of 'virtual keycodes'.  just use the map.
 [10:34:19]  <daniels> 67236 pkg-config.freedesktop.org-access.log
 [10:34:20]  <daniels> wtf?
 [10:34:51]  <daniels> wow, that's being spammed to buggery.
 [10:35:43]  <daniels> okay, should be fine now.  blocked a bunch of .cn spammers.
 [10:37:19]  <benjsc^ oouch yeah, see what you mean. Looks like moin 1.6 is keeping them out at least
 [10:37:21]  <daniels^ heh.  we're both trying to check RecentChanges. :)
 [10:37:30]  <daniels> i almost blocked you before i realised that it was a benign request.
 [10:37:36]  <daniels> thrown 5 out so far, they keep coming back.
 [10:37:54]  <daniels> ... six ...
 [10:38:47]  <daniels> (eight.)
 [10:38:49]  <johnflux> hmm, I hope you don't block me
 [10:38:57]  <johnflux> i've been trying to git pull :-)
 [10:39:07]  <daniels^ unless you're spamming the pkg-config wiki, no. :P
 [10:39:20]  <johnflux> good good :)
 [10:39:51]  <benjsc> daniels: It's scarey that it can pull annarchy down though, gotta look into the way we've got mod_python set at some time
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[10:40:24]  <daniels> benjsc: yeah ... plus some better disks to get proper i/o.
 [10:41:43]  <benjsc^ more memory initially would be a major help
 [10:41:58]  <daniels> yeah
 [10:42:23]  <benjsc^ we also don't rate limit git connections so say 4 git checkouts of xserver + spam attack + google/msn on cgit = wham :(
 [10:42:29]  <daniels> jesus, these guys aren't fucking around.  17 blocked IPs now.
 [10:42:36]  <daniels> yeah, true.  should limit per-ip or somesuch.
 [10:42:47]  <marcheu> limit anongit first :)
 [10:42:57]  <johnflux> poor me
 [10:42:59]  <johnflux> :-)
 [10:43:12]  <daniels> tail -f *-access.log is a laugh.
 [10:44:01]  <benjsc> that's a lot of traffic :)
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[10:44:45]  <Company> i love how the virtual keycode 1 is the left mouse button
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[10:45:03]  <Company> _that_ is mastery at the highest level
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[10:51:57]  <wereHamster> why don't you block robots on cgit/gitweb?
 [10:53:54]  <daniels> i feel like i should have a shotgun and a rocking chair.
 [10:54:09]  <ajax> but that's always true
 [10:54:17]  <daniels> wereHamster: we do.  but when you're getting wikispammed by ~100 chinese IPs, there's fuck-all you can do.
 [10:54:26]  <daniels> except run tail -f on every single access log, and watch every request for spammers, and drop them as soon as they hit.
 [10:54:34]  <daniels> i love my life.
 [10:55:45]  <ajax> i know this is drastic, but perhaps denying moin write access to *.cn is an okay idea
 [10:56:22]  <ajax> it's not like we get any legitimate content from there
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[10:56:25]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: I'm a bit interested, why did you choose EDI Zoo?
 [10:56:32]  <Dr_Jakob> for XDS2008 that is?
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[10:56:54]  <daniels> i see the matrix in http requests.
 [10:57:09]  <daniels> ajax: DNS lookups ftl.  seriously tempted to ban all zh_CN though.
 [10:57:36]  <ajax^ dns lookups are flowers and sunshine compared to disk death.
 [10:57:56]  <daniels^ you're also assuming everyone has reverse DNS.  most of these don't.
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[11:05:50]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: dunno.  it was something different, and quite well-priced.  better than just living in a hotel for a week. :)
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[11:08:21]  <Dr_Jakob> daniels: indeed, so where did you hear about it?
 [11:09:45]  <daniels> i see the matrix in access.log.
 [11:09:49]  <daniels> Dr_Jakob: can't remember, off the top of my head.
 [11:11:50]  <daniels> i hate the internet.
 [11:11:55]  <daniels> spam and worms.
 [11:12:07]  <Dr_Jakob^ ACK
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[11:12:25]  <daniels> and spamming worms.
 [11:14:13]  <johnflux> and wormy spammers
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[11:18:11]  <daniels> okay, quieting down now.
 [11:18:43]  <johnflux> woot, I can git pull at last :-)
 [11:20:22]  <anholt_> daniels: have to say, it's a pretty cool venue except for lack of networking.  but I'm accustomed to network fail at confs at this point.
 [11:21:06]  <daniels^ yeah, that was something i just completely and utterly forgot about.  but in a way it's a good thing.  sea of laptops ftl.  (and i'm as guilty as the next person.)
 [11:21:27]  <daniels> (got hit by two spammers in the time i spent typing that.  sigh.)
 [11:21:38]  <anholt_^ mjg59's phone is providing comparable networking to what I'm used to.
 [11:21:58]  <daniels> heh
 [11:23:24]  <Dr_Jakob> anholt_: ugh you poor soul.
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[11:24:09]  <anholt_> Dr_Jakob: I meant "at conferences", but the delta between this and home is shockingly small.
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[11:25:25]  <johnflux> daniels: can you review/commit my patches to the mailing list ?
 [11:25:48]  <johnflux> 1 of the 3 has been committed, the other 2 haven't
 [11:28:11]  <daniels^ yeah, will check them out on the weekend
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[11:30:00]  <jasonlife> Does RandR support two independent screens from my dual-head card?
 [11:30:04]  <daniels> grr.
 [11:30:30]  <johnflux^ thanks
 [11:31:08]  <daniels> np
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[11:32:00]  <jasonlife> Like accessing each screen with :0.0 and :0.1 
[11:32:20]  <jcristau> no
 [11:33:07]  <jasonlife> Is it not feasible or any plan to support ?
 [11:33:59]  <jasonlife> Or should it be implemented in the driver?
 [11:34:10]  <daniels> it's not feasible at the moment, but might become so later.
 [11:34:21]  <wereHamster> why do you want two independent screens? Are you making a multi-seat workstation?
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[11:35:33]  <jasonlife> Can I make multi-seat with zaphod mode?
 [11:35:53]  <jasonlife> running two separate desktop for testing now..
 [11:36:35]  <jasonlife> wereHamster: can I make multi-seat with zaphod? I wonder
 [11:37:18]  <jasonlife> Multiple instances of X are required to get multi-seat working.. isn't it?
 [11:37:40]  <osiris__^ yes
 [11:37:46]  <daniels> either that or running xephyr.
 [11:40:09]  <jasonlife> I just want to know the current status of zaphod if someone knows it.
 [11:40:38]  <jcristau> should work with radeon afaik
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[11:44:18]  <jasonlife> I noticed that same RANDR source exists on both X server and video driver.  Why is that?  Source in the Xserver is a kind of template that video driver developers can use?
 [11:44:54]  <cjb^ The server provides callbacks for the driver to implement.
 [11:45:13]  <cjb> Just like EXA, or many other things.  You get a notification of the randr event, and you do whatever makes sense to your hardware.
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[11:45:48]  <jcristau> some drivers also copy some server randr code in their tarball so they can be built against older servers
 [11:46:38]  <jasonlife> Does it mean driver overwrite randr callbacks?
 [11:47:49]  <jcristau> i have no idea what that question means
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[11:48:46]  <johnflux> jasonlife: you get function hooks like     prepareSolid   which you point to your function
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[11:49:03]  <johnflux> urgh
 [11:49:21]  <johnflux> not that particularly hook
 [11:50:09]  <jasonlife> Maybe I was misunderstood..  I thought same functions are exists on video driver and X server..
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[11:50:42]  <jasonlife> :q
 [11:51:28]  <cjb^ maybe, I don't know anything about that.
 [11:52:12]  <MrCooper+ the driver copy is only compiled with pre-RandR 1.2 servers
 [11:53:49]  <jasonlife^ thanks
 [11:54:03]  <MrCooper> np
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[11:54:47]  <jasonlife> I confused because I can find xf86RandR12.c on both drivers and Xserver under hw/xfree86/modes/  directory..
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[11:55:50]  <daniels> the driver only uses its only version if it's building against an old server.  if you build it against a current server, the driver's copy is unused.
 [11:56:03]  <johnflux> how do I actually implement porter and duff operations? :)
 [11:56:22]  <jasonlife> daniels, MrCooper: Thanks guys, I'm clear now
 [11:56:35]  <daniels> johnflux: on your hardware, with a shader
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[11:58:10]  <johnflux> daniels: i mean..  okay so I have two 32 bit values,   is it possibly to do A in B,    for example, without converting to float and back ?
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[11:58:39]  <anholt_> johnflux: read fbcompose.c
 [11:59:59]  <johnflux^ hmm, hardcore
 [12:01:26]  <daniels> the intel driver has the source for the shaders used on gen4 hw (965+) to implement render accel, which may be instructive.
 [12:02:55]  <anholt_> don't read the gen4 stuff
 [12:03:00]  <anholt_> read the gen3 (i915_render.c)
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[12:05:35]  <aaronp> tjaalton: I did *try* it before committing the patch...  It definitely did work.
 [12:08:43]  <johnflux> anholt_: is the i915_render.c  definitely gen3?  could I be looking at gen4 by mistake? :)
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[12:10:40]  <anholt_> read what's in the filenames I gave you.
 [12:13:56]  <tjaalton> aaronp: without having the nvidia installed?
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[12:22:39]  <johnflux> anholt_: thanks very much
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[12:25:29]  <tjaalton> aaronp: here it just fails to open the module and aborts
 [12:26:05]  <tjaalton> but it was tested with 1.5rc + those commits
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[12:31:40]  <aaronp> tjaalton: Yes.  It created a device section for each driver and fell back from the first to the second when the driver for the first couldn't be loaded.
 [12:31:48]  <aaronp> I don't know why it would be behaving differently for you.
 [12:32:20]  <aaronp> Chalk it up to differences between 1.5 and master, I guess.
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[12:33:26]  <jcristau> might just be autoconfig vs 'missing Driver in the Device section'
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[12:45:41]  <jasonlife> Does vesa driver support dual-head?  I don't need 3D, so if I can use vesa for my dual-head card, then I don't need to worry about driver setting..
 [12:45:46]  <jcristau> no
 [12:46:36]  <jasonlife^ did you answer to my question ? 
[12:46:40]  <jcristau> yes
 [12:46:42]  <jasonlife> It was so quick .. so
 [12:46:44]  <jasonlife> :)
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[12:48:16]  <jasonlife> jcristau, Is it because every hardware has different feature or something?
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[12:49:36]  <jasonlife> I'm wondering why vesa is not working with dual-head setup, even though it is working with single head setup..
 [12:50:34]  <jcristau> your dual head setup with vesa is not working because vesa doesn't do dual head.
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[12:52:45]  <jasonlife> I guess it is not feasible to implement..
 [12:53:20]  <jasonlife> I mean supporting dual-head of any cards using vesa driver..
 [12:54:13]  <marcheu> are you with deepak ?
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[12:55:32]  <jasonlife> ?
 [12:56:04]  <marcheu> the guy that keeps asking this same question on the list
 [12:56:12]  <marcheu> to which we answer no each time
 [12:56:24]  <jcristau> 'but i want to do it anyway!'
 [12:56:25]  <jasonlife> No. sorry.. 
[12:57:17]  <jasonlife> I don't know deepak honestly.. I just curious about this..  vesa support all graphics card.. and why not dual-head setup..
[12:57:47]  <marcheu> 18:50 < jcristau> your dual head setup with vesa is not working because vesa doesn't do dual head.
 [12:57:50]  <marcheu> what's not clear there ?
 [12:59:02]  <jasonlife> it doesn't explain why vesa doesn't do dual head.. 
[12:59:24]  <stillunknown> because it doesn't
 [12:59:39]  <stillunknown> It's like asking why C doesn't have classes, because it wasn't designed with them.
 [12:59:44]  <Lrrr> Lemme try, because VESA exposes just a standard subset of graphic cards capability, and multihead support isn't included in that subset.
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[12:59:50]  <jasonlife> it means it's possible, but simply doesn't implement it?
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[13:02:04]  <jasonlife> C doesn't have classes, but you can mimic it..
 [13:02:37]  <Lrrr^ VESA, the standard, not the driver, doesn't expose that capability.
 [13:02:54]  <tjaalton> aaronp: oh, was it without xorg.conf?
 [13:03:53]  <jasonlife> Lrrr: I see
 [13:04:40]  <Lrrr^ So you can't have VESA multihead by sticking with what VESA offers.
 [13:04:56]  <jasonlife> gotcha..
 [13:06:59]  <jasonlife> So it seems it's not feasible to write a generic driver to support dual-head setup..
 [13:07:33]  <Lrrr> I probably wouldn't be totally generic
 [13:07:53]  <jasonlife> Unless VESA expose that dual-head capability..
 [13:08:23]  <Lrrr> yeah, if it ever does then I guess it'll be possible.
 [13:08:44]  <jasonlife^ thank.. it's clear now..
 [13:10:02]  <agd5f^ there are vesa entensions to support dualhead, but I don't know of any vender that implements them since in most cases you'll be using a native driver anyway and rom space is limited
 [13:11:01]  <Lrrr> thanks for precising this.  my source of information was Wikipedia and I did not find that.
 [13:11:47]  <Lrrr> /whois agd5f
[13:11:49]  <Lrrr> oops
 [13:11:59]  <agd5f^ Alex Deucher
 [13:12:08]  <Lrrr> saw that, thanks
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[13:18:43]  <jasonlife> Is every modern graphics card VESA-compatible?
 [13:19:47]  <cjb> yes, most, but that doesn't mean you want to use VESA
 [13:20:24]  <jasonlife^ because of the 3D support?
 [13:21:02]  <cjb> yes.  also accel 2D, modesetting, everything we like native drivers for.
 [13:21:14]  <jasonlife> I see
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[13:30:30]  <tjaalton> aaronp: ok I've read the original mail by alanc and it would suggest that it works when running without a conffile
 [13:32:05]  <ajax> also, you can expect vesa compatibility to eventually go away
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[13:39:35]  <jasonlife> ajax, because vendors doesn't care about VESA standard?
 [13:40:00]  <ajax> indirectly.
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[13:40:23]  <ajax> more because vista forbids using it at runtime, and it's not well defined in the context of EFI (in fact, not defined at all)
 [13:40:47]  <ajax> so if you don't need it to boot windows, why bother.
 [13:41:11]  <jasonlife> damn vista..
 [13:41:17]  <ajax> meh
 [13:41:22]  <ajax> vbe's a shit standard anyway
 [13:41:48]  <jasonlife> but it is useful to find monitor information.. at least in my case..
 [13:41:55]  <ajax> efi (well, the newest round of efi) has an api that's almost pleasant to use.
 [13:44:21]  <jasonlife> int10 use vbe, isn't it?
 [13:45:13]  <ajax> the reverse.
 [13:45:32]  <ajax> interrupt 0x10 was the old dos hook for video services
 [13:45:43]  <ajax> vbe just adds some well-defined entrypoints to it.
 [13:46:07]  <tjaalton> does anyone have an idea when efi is coming to workstation mb's a mortal can buy?
 [13:46:17]  <ajax^ well, you can buy a mac...
 [13:46:30]  <ajax> if you mean discrete boards, probably in the next year or so if i had to guess
 [13:47:17]  <agd5f> efi is also nice since you can have roms up to 16 MB, not the 64k crap we ahve now
 [13:47:53]  <tjaalton> ajax: yeah I knew macs had them..
 [13:48:23]  <ajax> efi is kind of insanely complete
 [13:48:37]  <ajax> to the point where i've seriously considered writing Xefi
 [13:48:41]  <agd5f> even has limited support for accel
 [13:48:56]  <ajax> you've got network support and graphics support, so why not.
 [13:49:43]  <jcristau> hmm. i128 might want a release for the xf86usleep -> usleep stuff.
 [13:50:24]  <ajax> oh man, i'm a bad maintainer aren't i.
 [13:51:01]  <jcristau> i'll roll up 1.3.1..
 [13:51:06]  <ajax> thanks
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[13:52:55]  <jasonlife> ajax, with efi, is it possible to write a generic driver like "vesa" driver?
 [13:53:09]  <ajax> kinda but not really.
 [13:53:28]  <ajax> it's more like, with efi, you'd use fbdev, and the kernel's efifb driver
 [13:57:15]  <ajax> after handoff from bootup to operating system, most of the efi calls are no longer guaranteed to work.  all you're guaranteed at that point is a pointer to the framebuffer and a description of the current mode.
 [13:57:24]  <ajax> which is just fine, really.
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[14:33:03]  <jcristau> ajax: imstt should probably be removed from the 7.4 set until/unless it's ported
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[14:36:36]  <ajax> yeah.
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[14:36:53]  <ajax> done
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[16:46:01]  <ajax> daniels: i assume i'd need to bump libXi for xge support?  in which case, how confident in it are you?
 [16:46:38]  <daniels^ well, we don't have a release for libX11, which is the big problem.  need 1.2.0.
 [16:46:56]  <daniels> i'm pretty confident in libX11 and I don't know of any biggies that would stop it, but it is kind of taking the piss at this stage.
 [16:47:16]  <ajax> i'm inclined to leave it alone then.
 [16:47:23]  <ajax> i mean, a 1.2.0 would be lovely
 [16:47:40]  <daniels> it would, but not for 7.4.
 [16:47:45]  <ajax> right.
 [16:47:48]  <ajax> (gavel)
 [16:48:01]  <daniels> judge judy t ber alles.
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[16:55:03]  <daniels> i wouldn't really worry about the two proto modules then, unless x11proto has keysym updates.  those can be tricky, as you need xkbcomp to be built against the latest keysymdef.  guh.
 [16:56:03]  <daniels> (and i think jimc has been doing a bunch of not just keysym additions, but also compose table updates.)
 [16:57:08]  <ajax> i don't see anything about compose table changes between .12 and .13
 [16:57:22]  <ajax> at least i assume those live in xproto not xextproto
 [16:58:17]  <ajax> but yeah, there's some keysym changes between .12 and .13
 [16:58:31]  <daniels> guh.  need to go to drinkin' island.  you need keysymdef from x11proto, then makekeys output from libX11 built against that version, and compose tables are just in libX11.
 [17:00:19]  <ajax> so libX11 needs a rebuild if you update xproto?  seems like a release note but not a package bump.
 [17:00:31]  <daniels> 7dc907, 254522, 4ba091, 55248e are compose table updates in libX11.
 [17:01:34]  <daniels> so if we have x11proto with all the keysymdef changes and libX11 with those four changes, then you build new libX11 against new x11proto, you're sweet.
 [17:01:38]  <daniels> want me to do 1.1.5?
 [17:01:48]  <ajax> please/
 [17:01:57]  <daniels> k.  give me an hour?
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[17:03:44]  <ajax> sure.  i'm off to drinkin' island anyway.  if you could also update the archive when you do it, that'd be sweet, else i'll get to it sometime over the weekend
 [17:03:56]  <daniels> sure, will do and note in a mail to the list.
 [17:04:24]  <daniels> did you dig through proto/lib for modules with uncommitted changes?
 [17:05:14]  <airlied> christ we but Q and memo-list discusses whether the video should be in OGG or not.
 [17:05:18]  <airlied> missing the point.
 [17:06:13]  <ajax> daniels: i think when last i did so - a week or two? - there wasn't anything there that i thought was critical.
 [17:06:38]  <daniels^ okay, cool.  so we're pretty good but for feedback; i assume that xts and rendercheck runs are too late at this stage ... point releases later if needed.
 [17:06:50]  <ajax> yeah, really cbf about that.
 [17:07:00]  <Ori_B> daniels: when you have time, the account update request is on bug 17414
 [17:07:05]  <daniels> ajax: fair enough
 [17:07:07]  <daniels> Ori_B: yeah
 [17:07:46]  <Ori_B> thanks
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[17:41:29]  <tjaalton> is there another way to pass video driver options than via xorg.conf? hal, perhaps?
 [17:44:30]  <tjaalton> umm no, only for input
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[17:48:06]  <daniels> tjaalton: yeah
 [17:48:11]  <daniels> you're correct
 [17:49:20]  <airlied> we should do output over hal eventually also
 [17:49:28]  <daniels> assuming hal continues to exist, sure.  but who knows.
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[18:00:05]  <tjaalton> hm, that shouldn't be too hard to add, right?-)
 [18:03:27]  <daniels> actually, not very hard at all, really.  but we really need to have a sensible set of gpu properties, which probably won't happen until randr1.3 gets specced.  at that point, we can start adding stuff to hal.
 [18:03:50]  <daniels> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2008-September/012211.html is pretty applicable to this case as well.  video.x11_options is _not_ happening.
 [18:11:00]  <tjaalton> thanks for the link and background, it clears things somewhat
 [18:11:07]  <tjaalton> for me anyway
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[18:15:45]  * cworth wishes well to all XDS attendees!
 [18:15:55]  <aaronp> ajax: Any idea why 1.4.99.905 would abort on shutdown when the keyboard driver is set to "keyboard" but not when it's "kbd"?
 [18:16:01]  <cworth> Would have loved to be there with you, of course...
 [18:24:15]  <daniels> aaronp: weird.  there's a bunch of logic to smash the name to kbd if it was set as kbd.  any clue where it aborts?
 [18:24:18]  <daniels> cworth: yeah, likewise.
 [18:24:21]  <daniels> tjaalton: np
 [18:24:56]  <daniels> feel free to chip in, too; would love to hear from distro people if there's anything from keybindings changing that i need to sort out before our new input code can be fully unleashed.
 [18:26:24]  <aaronp^ It hits a glibc invalid free() check in DeleteInputDeviceRequest.
 [18:26:37]  <aaronp> I don't have debug info so I don't know what line.
 [18:29:11]  <daniels> oh, wow.  we're blatantly accessing a lot of freed memory here.
 [18:30:04]  <daniels> caching pDev->isMaster so we don't use pDev at all after the RemoveDevice() call, and nulling it out in InputDriverPtr afterwards, would probably be useful.  alternately, maybe it's safe for RemoveDevice to be moved down, but not sure.
 [18:30:08]  <daniels> whot: ?
 [18:33:15]  <daniels> (god, what a mess.)
 [18:33:36]  <gustaf1> I saw from the xds 2k8 that freedesktop will move from gitweb to cgit. fine, I just have one issue. with gitweb I can easily sort all projects by change-date. I use this a few times a week. Haven't found any way with cgit, but I might be blind..
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[18:34:27]  <daniels> gustaf1: cgit doesn't have sort order, but i'm sure they'd absolutely love a patch. :)
 [18:36:08]  <tjaalton^ tbh I don't have a clear picture of all the changes you guys are planning for XKB2.. is it written somewhere?
 [18:36:18]  <gustaf1+ I hear that ;)
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[18:37:00]  <tjaalton> cgit doesn't seem to have a way to download a commit as a patch
 [18:38:30]  <DrNick> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/diff/?id=44155f7e5941351b224b60644632b55448369e49&id2=0e01534bf0bd64af840ccfa8aeaa1ac1a7cb31b7
 [18:39:00]  <tjaalton> html crap
 [18:40:22]  <tjaalton> heh, searching xkb2 from google; "did you mean pub2"
 [18:42:22]  <jcristau> whisky all around
 [18:43:46]  <tjaalton> yep :)
 [18:48:52]  <daniels> haha
 [18:48:58]  <daniels> i'm not a whisky man, but, nice.
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[18:49:28]  <daniels> tjaalton: i'll sit down with peter and get this stuff written up at some point, but probably towards the end of the year, tbh.  (he's moving from adelaide to brisbane, i'm moving from helsinki to melbourne, etc.)
 [18:52:17]  <aaronp^ Should I file a bug?
 [18:54:24]  <daniels^ sure.
 [18:56:59]  <benjsc_zzz> DrNick: add it to: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16794 and the functionality will get added
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[18:57:58]  <benjsc> daniels: wow, your be in Oz, freeky :)
 [18:58:30]  <daniels^ yeah, back to the homeland. :)
 [18:59:46]  <aaronp^ #17438
 [19:00:22]  <daniels^ thanks
 [19:01:36]  <fcarrijo> anyone here aware of owen's work on exa's glyph cache?
 [19:03:08]  <daniels> define 'aware'.
 [19:03:22]  <daniels> i didn't fail to notice it getting discussed and subsequently merged, if that's what you mean ...
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[19:04:38]  <jcristau> aaronp: heh, /etc/X11/XF86Config. :)
 [19:04:40]  <fcarrijo_> daniels: not exactly what I mean...
 [19:04:55]  <daniels^ well, if you have a more specific question, best to just ask it.
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[19:05:29]  <fcarrijo_> ok...
 [19:05:31]  <fcarrijo_> I'm just starting here, and got interested in implementing the dynamic cache size about which owen talks in his page
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[19:06:02]  <aaronp> jcristau: Yeah, the bug that caused nvidia-xconfig to generate that instead of xorg.conf also made it generate keyboard instead of kbd, hence exposing the bug.
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[19:06:56]  <fcarrijo_> and decided to check if that is the kind of stuff people would sugest to someone with no previous experience on X
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[19:07:28]  <daniels> fcarrijo_: yeah, it doesn't need too much x experience per se, beyond being able to detect fucked fonts (which is easy: run firefox or gnome-terminal).
 [19:07:39]  <daniels> the drivers can be kind of funky, but hopefully you won't need to deal too much with those.
 [19:07:59]  <daniels> fcarrijo_: so if you know the problem space, you're in pretty good shape.  there's a basic amount of x server knowledge required, but not too much.
 [19:08:04]  <fcarrijo_^ yeah.. that's what I thought
 [19:08:29]  <fcarrijo_> besides, i've been looking for the "janitorial things" in the todo list
 [19:08:55]  <fcarrijo_> is that still a goal?
 [19:09:22]  <fcarrijo_> not that glorious task, but I think would be nice for me to do
 [19:09:32]  <fcarrijo_> given my condition, i mean  :)
 [19:10:17]  <daniels> jcristau: gods yes.  our server is in desperate need of a cleanup, and there's no end of stuff to do there.
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[19:11:03]  <daniels> there's a lot of deletion of code to be done, partially due to a lot of structures not making sense and needing rethinking (almost always resulting in simplification).  that one needs a little more knowledge of how it all hangs together, but can be pretty interesting and not too insane to do.
 [19:11:08]  <daniels> s/jcristau/fcarrijo/, sorry.
 [19:11:20]  <fcarrijo^ np
 [19:11:55]  <fcarrijo> deletion of code is something which scares me a bit
 [19:12:52]  <fcarrijo> in a certain way, it goes more deeply within X than the dynamic cache size of which I told before... doesn't it?
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[19:35:29]  <daniels> fcarrijo: yeah, but it's mainly just about knowing which subsystem is which, and how they interact.  it's not hardcore or anything amazingly difficult, just rather obscure and poorly thought-out. :)
 [19:35:30]  <fcarrijo^ anyway... I'll use the next days to look deeper into exa and see what I can do
 [19:35:58]  <fcarrijo> :)
 [19:36:29]  <daniels^ i wouldn't worry about deletion, really.  we've gone from ~1.2m to ~650,000 lines of code from 1.0.0 to current git master, having added proper multi-monitor (and hotplug) support, input hotplug support, exa, aiglx + dri2, etc, etc.
 [19:37:15]  <daniels> cool.  give a shout on here if you ever have any questions -- our timezone coverage isn't fantastic (primarily a couple each in europe and australia and a few in north america), but if you have specific questions, we're more than happy to answer.
 [19:38:14]  <fcarrijo^ well, I have one more for today.. may I?  :)
 [19:38:48]  <daniels^ sure thing
 [19:39:21]  <fcarrijo^ my hardware is very old.. equiped with S3-Trio video board...
 [19:39:44]  <daniels> wow, nice.
 [19:40:26]  <fcarrijo^ looking at the virge video driver, I saw that it uses xaa as the acceleration solution
 [19:41:09]  <fcarrijo> people who wrote that drivers were not exactly SiS' folks
 [19:41:31]  <fcarrijo> and I did not find any documentation about those video boards...
 [19:41:44]  <fcarrijo> how did they do that?
 [19:41:59]  <fcarrijo> this is my dumb question for the day!  :)
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[19:46:24]  <daniels> fcarrijo: i think the virge was written with the aid of s3 specs, provided under nda to individual developers.
 [19:47:17]  <daniels> the mach64, radeon (r100), r200, and r300 specs were available under the same agreement, and amd provided individual asic fixes and workarounds (plus the guessed ones), plus you can do a significant amount of buggering around, reverse-engineering (e.g. of vbios, windows driver, proprietary driver), etc.
 [19:47:39]  <daniels> often the vendors do help though; mga contributes fixes and new chip support to mga.
 [19:47:43]  <jcristau> god we have too fucking many drivers. i get bored building them.
 [19:48:09]  <fcarrijo^ :)
 [19:48:40]  <fcarrijo> daniels: I understand
 [19:48:51]  <fcarrijo> nice man!
 [19:49:04]  <fcarrijo> tanks for the explanations!
 [19:49:13]  <daniels> jcristau: cast yourself from the shackles of distro work, and swim upstream!
 [19:49:19]  <daniels> fcarrijo: no problem. :)
 [19:50:34]  <jcristau^ i'm still scared by it all :)
 [19:51:03]  <daniels^ you learn to love that feeling of sheer terror.  harness it into rage.
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[19:59:53]  <jcristau> daniels: hmm. i'll think about it :)
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[20:05:18]  <jcristau> daniels: i sent a mail to d-d-a to try to get other people to take my place ("hey, X is fun, i'm sure you want to maintain it"), but not much success so far
 [20:05:22]  <daniels^ it's been in your heart all along.  julien, i am your father, etc.
 [20:05:26]  <daniels> yarr. :\
 [20:05:34]  <daniels> you can't be that upfront about it, you have to trick them into it.
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[22:13:25]  <uep> I've considered attempting to aide in xorg development.  A problem for me has been the barrier to entry.  I don't think I fully grasp the toolchain.
 [22:13:33]  <daniels^ go on?
 [22:14:33]  <uep> I wasn't thinking of adding my own brand new feature, but of helping to complete some of the existing features.
 [22:14:51]  <daniels> yeah, there's a lot of that needed.  anything in particular?
 [22:15:00]  <Ori_B> uep: and what are you stuck on?
 [22:15:22]  <uep> Thankfully, someone in #xorg helped me fix my keyboard issue.  I would just like to help out with development though.
 [22:16:16]  <daniels> http://tinyurl.com/38ws2l is probably a pretty reasonable way to start groping around the tree ...
 [22:16:43]  <uep> Unfortunately, my initial inspiration started a few months ago, so I don't remember what specific feature I was interested in.  But I think it was something xinerama related or some such.
 [22:18:20]  <uep> I am willing to tackle some bugs also.
 [22:19:34]  <uep> I think one of the barriers was that I don't fully understand the overall structure.  The tools used to build, etc.  I have never used one of the gnu/linux toolchains.
 [22:19:55]  <uep> I'm an embedded developer by day, but we don't use anything like automake or linux there.
 [22:21:38]  <uep> We use gcc, but we have our own makefile structure and home-grown OS.  As such, I don't quite understand that process for linux.
 [22:22:36]  <uep> daniels: Do I need to understand that process to aide in development?  Or is the extent of what I need to know, just to run command x, y, and z to build?  Will I learn them along the way?
 [22:24:06]  <uep> I am familiar with git, I have taught myself that purely from the hype surrounding the tool.
 [22:24:36]  <daniels> you don't really need to understand most of the build system in order to use it.
 [22:24:59]  <daniels> once you have a basic build set up -- and there are guides on our wiki, you pretty much just need to rebuild one component.
 [22:26:32]  <uep> Okay, I will start with this page then. http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/git
 [22:28:43]  <uep> I assume that is the one you are referring to.  I apologize if some of this seems extremely naive, I haven't looked at the documentation in a while.  Back when I was originally reading up on it, I got stuck but I didn't want to enter IRC for help.
 [22:30:04]  <uep> Now that I've broken that barrier, I'm going to begin my re-education.  I suppose I should subscribe to the mailing list as well?
 [22:33:28]  <Ori_B^ yes, that would probably be a good idea
 [22:34:14]  <daniels+ no problem, and yep, right on both counts.
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[23:29:54]  <uep> I think the wiki is missing a needed library:
 [23:29:56]  <uep> I think the wiki is missing a library. No package 'xextproto' found
 [23:29:56]  <uep> Requested 'xcb-xlib >= 1.1.90' but version of XCB Xlib is 1.1
 [23:30:33]  <uep> I found the location on the gitweb interface, but I just thought I'd let someone know.
 [23:40:25]  <uep> Okay, I must be doing something wrong.
 [23:40:49]  <uep> I thought I just downloaded and installed xextproto, but now libX11 is complaining about not finding a late-enough version.
 [23:44:22]  <uep> Okay, my mistake, I read the message wrong.
 [23:45:25]  <uep> daniels: Is xcb/libxcb the correct git repository?  It is not prefixed by or xorg/lib/ or xorg/proto.
 [23:46:52]  <uep> I ask specifically because there are multiple xcb repos under different users' directories.
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[01:57:12]  <dberkholz> cjb: i'll add your feed in the next few days. just had a new baby so things are kinda crazy around here
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[02:55:20]  <rob_w> hi .. a xinput driver which works fine on 1.4.0 now moves the cursor not enough on a 1.4.2 ? ..
[02:56:05]  <rob_w> i read in wacom driver that some xserver didnt call DevConvert or such ?
[02:56:53]  <rob_w> Why cant it just be like that xf86PostButtonEvent() uses plain x and y coordinates or do i need to call a different function nowadays ?
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[03:13:57]  <[AD]Turbo> yo
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[03:44:35]  <tjaalton> whot: hey, are you planning on releasing evdev 2.1 soonish?
 [03:44:57]  <tjaalton> daniels: ok, I'll look forward to it
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[05:14:19]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
[05:14:19]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
[05:14:19]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aaronp agd5f aggelos_ ahelon ahf airlied ajax anderco b0le Batchy Battousai bbyer benjsc bgoglin bobbens bryce buggs cbrake cjb` coling crossbuilder ctyler cworth dagb daniels darktama dberkholz Dodji dr-xorg Dr_Jakob DrNick ds Duke` dwmw2 emmes erikg fcarrijo fifthbro flssrswkgd glisse gmansi gordon_jin gustaf1 hachi halfline hbbs hw__ Ingmar jasonlife jbarnes_ jcristau jg johnflux keithp kem kylem leio libv londo_onholidays Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu math_b Mercury mjg59 mmc mpr MrCooper mvo ndim ohsix Ori_B osiris__ otavio_ pachi PauloZanoni pcpa pete__c pjones Plagman_ psyquark Q-FUNK rbrett reduz-wrk reduz_ rnoland rnoland_ rvalles soren sputnik66 stringfellow svu TBBle tcoppi tecnmmag tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Trigger7 vignatti vtorri Wallbraker wereHamster whot z3ro_ Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[05:22:43]  <whot> tjaalton: next week hopefully. i hae the branch ready here, but need some testing
 [05:23:42]  <tjaalton^ does it differ from master?
 [05:23:49]  <tjaalton> feature-wise
 [05:23:54]  <whot^ doesn't have device properties
 [05:23:58]  <tjaalton> ah :)
 [05:27:31]  <johnflux> dberkholz: how old is your baby? :)
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[05:49:19]  <whot> daniels: gah. yeah, isMaster needs to be cached, of course. can't move RemoveDevice down though, we need to remove the DIX device before teh DDX one
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[06:03:13]  <daniels> whot: okay, cool
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[08:08:31]  <daniels> whot: erk
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[08:30:50]  <whot> daniels: ?
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[08:55:53]  <daniels> whot: just realised the huge discrepancy between xf86-input-* in build.sh, and in the archive ...
 [08:56:00]  <daniels> i've matched the archive up to build.sh for now
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[09:03:47]  <whot> daniels: huh? what archive?
 [09:04:27]  <daniels^ www.x.org/archive/preview-X11R7.4/src/driver/
 [09:05:59]  <whot^ ah. I tried through ftp.x.org and it din't work.
 [09:06:08]  <daniels> heh
 [09:07:28]  <whot^ a lot of these drivers will die. sooner or later. hopefully
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[09:15:07]  <daniels> heh
 [09:15:23]  <daniels> i'm going to get an intuos when i get back to .au, so i can at least do _some_ tablet stuff.
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[09:25:11]  <whot> daniels: might want to buy it before au, cheaper everywhere else
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[09:31:35]  <daniels> whot: yeah, not planning on purchasing electronics in .au.
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[10:17:21]  <JohnFlux> daniels: Have you used rendercheck before?
 [10:17:34]  <JohnFlux> it's failing against fbdev in xorg head
 [10:20:50]  <JohnFlux> it all passes on my main machine, but fails on my omap
[10:20:51]  <JohnFlux> hmm
 [10:23:16]  <reduz_> Question, does X11 by default (without any extension) support creating/blitting pixmaps with alpha? or should i use XRender instead?
 [10:30:50]  <reduz_> ah, it seems everything i'd ever want to do is in XRender, cool
 [10:32:50]  <reduz_> too bad i can't find any docs on it
 [10:33:57]  <JohnFlux^ docs on XRender?
 [10:34:07]  <JohnFlux> it can be difficult :)  What are you trying to do ?
 [10:38:42]  <JohnFlux> testing using xvfb, with a depth of 32 or 16, rendercheck passes
 [10:38:59]  <JohnFlux> although that's the latest released, rather than from head
 [10:39:15]  <reduz_^ I'm making a toolkit
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[10:39:32]  <JohnFlux> reduz_: another one? :-)
 [10:39:55]  <reduz_> or more like, opensourcing an existing one and supporting X11
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[10:40:05]  <JohnFlux> cool
 [10:40:38]  <JohnFlux> reduz_: 'renderbench' is a fairly nice simple program - it creates a window and blits a few things to it
 [10:40:54]  <JohnFlux> using xrender
 [10:41:00]  <reduz_^ yeah.. there isn't any that works this way though. Qt-style api but BSD style license
 [10:42:13]  <reduz_> oh, thanks! I'll give that a check
 [10:42:14]  <JohnFlux^ it might be a fairly small subset of people who want to make a non-GPL'ed program but aren't a company
 [10:43:01]  <reduz_^ that's the point I'm opensourcing this, being able to make commercial, portable, apps with a quality toolkit without having to pay trolltech
 [10:43:57]  <JohnFlux^ I guess, but companies don't tend to mind that much paying for a quality toolkit
 [10:45:01]  <Lrrr> Plus, I'd say Qt is especially high-quality
 [10:45:07]  <reduz_> small companies have it more difficult, specially in countries like where I live, to pay those per-seat licenses trolltech offers
 [10:45:19]  <JohnFlux^ that's very true
 [10:45:41]  <JohnFlux> it would be impossible for a couple of guys in china to pay for a qt license I guess
 [10:46:09]  <reduz_> also, many people who would like to start up a product they can commercialize who start with nothing, have a very difficult time purchasing a Qt license, given their commercial license won't allow you to start the project with the GPL license
 [10:46:21]  <reduz_> JohnFlux, don't go that far, think south america
 [10:46:34]  <Lrrr> those are good points, still
 [10:47:25]  <reduz_> if you have the resources, i don't have any doubt that Qt is the best toolkit in existence
 [10:47:40]  <reduz_> oh, also
 [10:48:02]  <Lrrr> I don't think my company could have bought a Qt license.  We decided with C#.
 [10:48:03]  <reduz_> if you want to sub-license a product of yours to someone else, you are forcing your clients to sub-license Qt
 [10:48:15]  <reduz_> (when you include source code) that's also another restriction
 [10:48:56]  <Lrrr> but I'm not sure anybody in the world as the resources and energy to work out a toolkit like Qt for free.
 [10:49:48]  <reduz_> say you want to license a technology for making some sort of applications, including source code for the user to modify.. you have to include the price of Qt per-seat in the license. That's a BIG restriction
 [10:51:00]  <reduz_> Lrrr, well.. i want to start with something somewhat simple, (core and widgets) I think i already have most of that done. Then i hope i can build a community to build the rest
 [10:51:45]  <reduz_> well, i'm off!
 [10:51:48]  <Lrrr> Bah that's fine.  It's probably some fun to code too.
 [10:51:55]  <reduz_> yeah, definitely is :)
 [10:51:56]  <JohnFlux^ good luck
 [10:52:21]  <JohnFlux> there's already a community around wxwidgets which is similar to what you want
 [10:52:23]  <JohnFlux> i think
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[11:48:17]  <stillunknown> Has anyone had that their evdev (usb) mouse didn't work until they replugged it?
 [11:49:32]  <stillunknown> Same goes for keyboard, but that's ps2, so the replug thing doesn't work.
 [11:53:02]  <JohnFlux^ no :)
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[11:55:30]  <spstarr_work> er
 [11:55:37]  <spstarr_work> (II) NOUVEAU(0): RandR 1.2 enabled, ignore the following RandR disabled message.
 [11:55:38]  <spstarr_work> ...
 [11:55:38]  <spstarr_work> (--) RandR disabled
 [11:55:45]  <spstarr_work> why exactly is this situation happening ? :)
 [11:56:08]  <marcheu> it's Randr1.1 that's disabled
 [11:56:15]  <marcheu> but the message is pretty stupid yeah
 [11:56:25]  <marcheu> it should say "randr1.1"
 [11:56:26]  <JohnFlux>
[11:56:30]  <spstarr_work> but why bother trying to enable 1.1 if 1.2 is used at all?
 [11:56:36]  <spstarr_work> why bother displaying *anything*? :)
 [11:56:40]  <marcheu> it's common X code
 [11:57:40]  <JohnFlux> when compositing in xrender, are the pixmaps premutliplied alpha?
 [11:57:50]  <marcheu> yes
 [11:58:03]  <JohnFlux^ always?
 [11:58:11]  <JohnFlux> and the destination is premultiplied too?
 [11:58:11]  <marcheu> yes
 [11:58:21]  <marcheu> the destination ?
 [11:58:27]  <marcheu> you can't premultiply the destination :)
 [12:00:14]  <JohnFlux^ a client can create a non premultiplied alpha 8888 pixmap though, no?
 [12:00:29]  <JohnFlux> an X client
 [12:00:32]  <marcheu> the semantics that you associate to your pixmaps is yours
 [12:00:48]  <marcheu> but the render ops have well defined semantics that say alpha is premultiplied
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[12:01:09]  <JohnFlux> marcheu: this is opposite to when opengl does, right?
 [12:01:41]  <marcheu> opengl can do premultiplied too with glBlendFunc(GL_ONE, GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA)
 [12:01:54]  <marcheu> and non-premultiplied with (GL_SRC_ALPHA, GL_ONE_MINUS_SRc_ALPHA)
 [12:02:16]  <JohnFlux^ if I client makes a non-premultiplied alpha pixmap, and passes it to xrender to blend
 [12:02:28]  <marcheu> then it's fail
 [12:02:38]  <JohnFlux> oh
 [12:02:38]  <marcheu> it's interpreted as a premultiplied pixmaps
 [12:04:33]  <JohnFlux> this should be stated in renderproto.txt  :)
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[13:06:48]  <stillunknown> marcheu: I thought you could pass component alpha src and mask with the appropriate flag.
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[13:32:00]  <marcheu> stillunknown: and ?
 [13:32:12]  <marcheu> how does that relate to how the Over operation operates ?
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[13:41:07]  <stillunknown> marcheu: Nothing, it seems only masks can have component alpha.
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[14:34:38]  <Company> daniels, wereHamster: regarding yesterdays X key event to windows virtual key mapping: http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=blob;f=dlls/winex11.drv/keyboard.c;hb=HEAD <-- that's where the magic happens
 [14:34:43]  <Company> and no, it's not pretty
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[14:45:11]  <Lrrr> Company: scary.
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[15:19:17]  <CosmicPenguin> agd5f: ping
 [15:19:31]  <agd5f^ pong
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[19:10:53]  <imaginator> hi.  I have a question regarding developer account creation.  I'm trying to figure out the proper value for gpg's --send-keys
 [19:11:53]  <cjb> I think you can use anything that resolves to the key
 [19:11:56]  <imaginator> I've followed the directions, but the 0xdeadbeef confuses me.  I'm not sure what I send to subkeys.pgp.net.  Is it some part of gpg --list-keys? 
[19:12:03]  <cjb> user@host, or 0x12345678
 [19:12:14]  <imaginator> oh
 [19:12:32]  <cjb> yes, it is
 [19:12:36]  <cjb> here's mine:
 [19:12:37]  <cjb> pub   1024D/770531D5 2001-11-10
 [19:12:37]  <cjb> uid                  Chris Ball <chris@epiphyte.com>
 [19:12:44]  <cjb> that's 0x770531D5
 [19:12:48]  <imaginator> ok
 [19:12:55]  <imaginator> that clears up matters for me, thank you
 [19:13:00]  <cjb> welcome
 [19:14:34]  <imaginator> ok, that seems to have worked with --send-keys.  No message and echo $? is 0 so I guess that's good.
 [19:23:24]  <imaginator> Have some of the details changed with regard to new account registration since http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountRequests was written?
 [19:23:46]  <cjb> no
 [19:23:57]  <imaginator> I'm unable to find a "New Accounts" component
 [19:23:58]  <cjb> well, I don't think we use CVS anymore
 [19:24:09]  <cjb> hm, I found it okay.  it's under Sitewranglers, right?
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[19:24:39]  <cjb> you need to choose the right Product first
 [19:25:09]  <imaginator^ I can't find the product.  I'm trying to join the mesa and xserver groups.
 [19:25:34]  <cjb> ok
 [19:25:43]  <imaginator> So I thought the New Accounts section component would be right as the document suggests, but I can't find it.
 [19:25:51]  <cjb> it says if you can't find a new accounts component for your area, then use the sitewranglers product.
 [19:26:14]  <cjb> oh
 [19:26:32]  <imaginator> "If there's no product in bugzilla for the project in question, file it against the freedesktop.org product, in the New Accounts component"
 [19:26:36]  <cjb> I guess you're supposed to either use a general component under the right product, or the new accounts component under the sitewranglers product.
 [19:26:46]  <imaginator> hmm
 [19:26:52]  <cjb> yes, it's saying you only need to use the new accounts component if you are not using the correct product.
 [19:27:00]  <imaginator> what do you suggest I do?
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[19:28:34]  <imaginator> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi doesn't seem to list sitewranglers. 
[19:30:32]  <cjb> try the Freedesktop.org product
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[20:28:24]  <reduz__> QUESTION! Does xorg have some sort of viewsvn?
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[20:35:29]  <reduz__> also, any iea where can i find renderbench?
 [20:42:47]  <reduz__> ah, it was done by that rasterman dude
 [20:42:50]  <reduz__> got it
 [20:45:44]  <raster> you might want to try something more modern :)
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[20:49:36]  <reduz__> raster, whoa, hope that's not you because it would been too much of a strange coincidence. I'be been recommended to get it to use it as example of using xrender directly
 [20:50:48]  <raster> ooh
 [20:50:51]  <raster> not for benchmarking
 [20:51:36]  <raster> look at evas
 [20:51:42]  <raster> or cairo
 [20:51:46]  <raster> evas has an xrender engine
 [20:51:50]  <raster> much better than renderbench
 [20:51:51]  <raster> :)
 [20:51:55]  <raster> covers a lot of ops
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[20:54:19]  <reduz__> evas sounds familiar.. also isn't cairo for vector graphics?
 [20:55:06]  <raster> yes - it is
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[20:59:52]  <reduz__> ah... I'm porting a toolkit, so i figured xrender was the best fit.. although I can't a lot of docs on it
 [21:00:01]  <reduz__> er, can't find
 [21:00:28]  <raster> beware
 [21:00:32]  <raster> xrender can be nice and slow
 [21:00:42]  <raster> you want an abstraction between you and xrender
 [21:00:49]  <raster> so you can go to internal software rendering
 [21:00:54]  <raster> or drop alpha and transforms and stuff
 [21:01:01]  <raster> or maybe use gl etc.
 [21:03:56]  <reduz__> I'd think by now, xrender would be mostly hardware accelerated
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[21:04:20]  <reduz> guess i was wrong?
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[21:06:51]  <stillunknown> The few drivers that don't support transformations and stuff like that should be fixed, instead of worked around.
 [21:09:08]  <raster> reduz: bwahahahahahahah!
 [21:09:24]  <raster> stillunknown: i've been waiting for that for 8 years
 [21:09:39]  <raster> and most drivers dont support them
 [21:09:49]  <raster> :(
 [21:10:11]  <raster> yes - it should be fixed
 [21:10:19]  <raster> but... reality prevails
 [21:10:33]  <reduz> well, even though that, i'm sure it's more supported than opengl
 [21:10:38]  <stillunknown> raster: What drivers may i ask?
 [21:11:21]  <raster^ nvidia, via, s3, nv.
 [21:11:22]  <raster> um
 [21:11:29]  <raster> last i checked the intel drivers also didnt
 [21:11:41]  <raster> (via being unichrome)
 [21:11:44]  <stillunknown> Intel was an offender in the past, yes.
 [21:11:49]  <raster> last i checked radeon did it
 [21:11:51]  <stillunknown> nv doesn't do composite at all
 [21:12:13]  <raster> yup
 [21:12:19]  <raster> and nvidia only did non-transofmred
 [21:12:23]  <raster> stil does
 [21:12:40]  <raster> theres a lot fo people with nvidia cards... :(
 [21:13:06]  <reduz> oh, i'm not going to use transforms, just need a little of alpha blending
 [21:13:26]  <reduz> however, i really can't find any docs or reference on xrender
 [21:13:29]  <stillunknown> Still, you want something in between you and render.
 [21:13:32]  <reduz> any idea where can i look for?
 [21:13:41]  <raster> yes
 [21:13:45]  <raster> you want something in between
 [21:13:54]  <raster> it means - if the card you have is properly supported
 [21:13:58]  <raster> use xrender and enjoy
 [21:14:05]  <raster> if not - fall back to somethnig else
 [21:14:21]  <raster> reduz: as i said - there is sample code out and about
 [21:14:26]  <reduz> why? :( render seems to be like, just what i need. I don't need tons of speed, just a little of alpha blending support
 [21:14:28]  <raster> evas has a complete xrender engine
 [21:15:01]  <raster> u'd be amazed how much speed matters when xrender is falling back to software blending across a slow bus...
 [21:15:02]  <raster> :)
 [21:15:29]  <reduz> oh.. so it's just that? the C api and no docs?
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[21:15:47]  <raster> as best i know
 [21:15:48]  <raster> correct
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[21:15:56]  <raster> so look at those who have used the api before you
 [21:15:58]  <raster> and figured it out
 [21:16:02]  <reduz> great :(
 [21:16:02]  <raster> or created an abstractin layer
 [21:16:04]  <raster> eg cairo
 [21:16:05]  <raster> or qt
 [21:16:06]  <raster> or gtk
 [21:16:08]  <raster> or evas
 [21:16:10]  <raster> etc.
 [21:16:23]  <raster> depending what kind fo abstraction you like
 [21:17:03]  <raster> or just use an abstraction layer
 [21:17:03]  <raster> :)
 [21:17:14]  <reduz> ah, i already have this working with opengl, framebuffer and windows
 [21:17:30]  <reduz> so i was more like, trying to make an X11 backend, but normal X11 doesn't provide alpha blending
 [21:18:22]  <raster> aha!
 [21:18:30]  <raster> so youa re making an abstraction too
 [21:18:36]  <raster> well you just have to do what the rest of us did
 [21:18:41]  <raster> find someone elses code
 [21:18:42]  <reduz> yeah
 [21:18:44]  <raster> and divine how it works
 [21:18:46]  <raster> and guess
 [21:18:49]  <reduz> heh, wonder who was first
 [21:18:55]  <raster> and/or write test code toplay and see
 [21:18:55]  <raster> :)
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[21:19:21]  <raster> what toolkit is it?
 [21:20:27]  <reduz> my own one.. i have a few apps (some commercial, some opensource) written with it, and i was hoping to make it a nice x11 citizen
 [21:20:59]  <reduz> renderbench says xrender performance is great on this nvidia
 [21:21:06]  <reduz> (compared to imlib2 at least)
 [21:21:12]  <raster> aaah
 [21:21:24]  <raster> reduz: try expedite + evas
 [21:21:27]  <raster> its much more extensive
 [21:21:49]  <raster> quick results on my nvidia (nvidia drivers)
 [21:22:14]  <reduz> what is evas using? opengl?
 [21:22:25]  <stillunknown> The stupid thing is that transforms is like a 100 lines of code.
 [21:22:51]  <reduz^ i remember talking to keith packard that he wanted transforms in xrender to be "accurate", not "fast
 [21:24:07]  <spstarr> 'sup raster
 [21:25:35]  <raster> (still runing benchmark)
 [21:25:44]  <reduz> hope not the xrender one, heh
 [21:25:45]  <raster^ evas uses a tonne of backends
 [21:26:41]  <raster> software rendering (then blasting restults to fb, x11, just memory buffers, etc), xrender, gl, win32 gdi, directx, direct3d, got a quartz engine now, directfb, ... too many damn engines
 [21:26:57]  <raster> reduz:  yes. still running the xrender one.. takes the longest
 [21:26:58]  <raster> :)
 [21:26:59]  <reduz> oh, cool
 [21:27:01]  <raster> spstarr:  yo
 [21:27:21]  <raster> stillunknown: one thing that currently irks me with xrender+trsnaforms is downscaling. no filtered downscaling :(
 [21:28:23]  <stillunknown^ xrender forbids it?
 [21:28:55]  <raster^ well - not as such. just thye siftware code doesnt do it - and no accel engine i have seen implements it
 [21:28:58]  <reduz> no mipmaps i guess?
 [21:29:00]  <raster> i ask for "best" quality
 [21:29:09]  <raster> mipmpas are fairly useless for 2d scaling
 [21:29:40]  <stillunknown^ isn't best filtering some convolution filter?
 [21:29:42]  <raster> you want anisotropic filtering or full proper correct super-sampilg of full source regions
 [21:29:59]  <reduz> what is it used then, more complex interpolation like gaussian?
 [21:30:01]  <reduz> ahh
 [21:30:03]  <raster> stillunknown: no. its liner interpolation for upscaling
 [21:30:07]  <raster> downscaling its "nearest"
 [21:30:33]  <raster> anisotropic at least gets you an approximation of full-region-sampling
 [21:30:43]  <raster> evas's software engine does full region sampling
 [21:30:53]  <raster> and manages quite some speed.. considering its software
 [21:31:13]  <stillunknown^ opengl doesn't do bilinear on downscaling?
 [21:31:41]  <raster> ok
 [21:31:42]  <reduz> heh, frequency domain resampling would be fun
 [21:31:42]  <raster> results
 [21:31:47]  <raster> (software: 799.78, gl: 1012.87, xrender: 82.77)
 [21:32:15]  <reduz> whoa, software is almost as fast as gl
 [21:32:30]  <raster> :)
 [21:32:36]  <raster> nv 8600gt
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[21:33:01]  <stillunknown> I think "best" filter is typically not accelerated.
 [21:33:04]  <reduz> now you got me itching, any idea where the source code for xrender transforms are?
 [21:33:11]  <raster> nvidia driver: 169.12
 [21:33:33]  <raster> stillunknown:  it should be - as its "Fuzzy" as to what it provides.
[21:33:36]  <reduz> i mean if software can do it this well, i don't see why not just optimizing the xrender software backend
 [21:33:45]  <raster> the software impl just does linear interp.
 [21:34:08]  <reduz> even with that, i can't understand why it is so slow
 [21:34:25]  <stillunknown> migration probably
 [21:34:33]  <reduz> migration?
 [21:34:50]  <stillunknown> nvidia are supposedly going to do better for their 177 drivers (or something like that)
 [21:35:02]  <stillunknown> moving pixmaps from and to vram
 [21:35:06]  <raster^ even so. look at the results of using FilterNEarest
 [21:35:23]  <stillunknown> have a testapp?
 [21:35:40]  <reduz^ ahhh i get it
 [21:35:42]  <reduz> wait
 [21:35:47]  <reduz> that means xorg finally stores pixmaps in vram?
 [21:36:06]  <stillunknown> xorg doesn't, nvidia's acceleration architecture does
 [21:36:31]  <reduz> yeah i mean, i remember when i first using X, it stored all pixmaps in ram, not vram
 [21:36:54]  <stillunknown> raster: have a testapp?
 [21:37:32]  <raster> yes
 [21:37:35]  <raster> of course!
 [21:37:53]  <raster> 11:35AM ~ > expedite -e x11
 [21:37:53]  <raster> 121.17 , Image Blend Nearest Scaled
 [21:37:57]  <raster> 11:35AM ~ > expedite -e gl
[21:37:57]  <raster> 763.76 , Image Blend Nearest Scaled
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[21:38:01]  <raster> 11:35AM ~ > expedite -e xr
 [21:38:01]  <raster> 0.35 , Image Blend Nearest Scaled
 [21:38:20]  <raster> thats using FilterNearest in xrender... and its abysmnally slow
 [21:38:23]  <raster> whihc it shouldnt be
 [21:38:40]  <raster> thats over blends + scaling (in evas smooth scaling off)
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[21:39:15]  <stillunknown> i get that too, not nvidia driver, let me start the profiler
 [21:39:42]  <raster> and with no alpha blending (solid images scaled - nearest filter):
 [21:39:47]  <raster> 11:37AM ~ > expedite -e x11
 [21:39:47]  <raster> 938.36 , Image Blend Nearest Solid Scaled
 [21:39:51]  <raster> 11:39AM ~ > expedite -e gl
[21:39:51]  <raster> 726.66 , Image Blend Nearest Solid Scaled
 [21:39:55]  <raster> 11:39AM ~ > expedite -e xr
 [21:39:56]  <raster> 126.83 , Image Blend Nearest Solid Scaled
 [21:40:17]  <raster> test app is expedite (in e17 svn) and evas.
 [21:40:39]  <stillunknown> x11 is however slower for me
 [21:40:45]  <raster> software manages to beat gl here because software is a little smarter. it avoids overdraws like the plague if it can
 [21:40:51]  <stillunknown> gl, well i can't test that
 [21:41:03]  <raster> also software is a simd multi-trheaded renderer
 [21:41:11]  <raster> so it actually tries to max out my 2 cores
 [21:41:29]  <reduz> oh i think i understand, i first create an "xpixmap", then a "picture" tha uses the xpixmap, and all operations are done using that "picture"
 [21:41:29]  <raster> gl engine is more brute-force and doesnt avoid overdraws
 [21:41:35]  <raster> xrender engine avoids overdraw like software
 [21:41:44]  <raster> reduz:  correct
 [21:41:53]  <raster> pixmaps are just a rectangular collection of pixels
 [21:41:58]  <raster> the pixels are just numbers
 [21:42:02]  <raster> they have no color or alpha meaning
 [21:42:08]  <raster> a picture GIVES that a meaning
 [21:42:25]  <reduz> ah, so they are just server side memory
 [21:42:28]  <raster> by saynig "hi - i am in this color format/space - are, g, b and a are like this.. and my pixels live over here in this pixmap"
 [21:42:31]  <raster> correct
 [21:42:37]  <raster> the server should be putting them in video ram
 [21:42:40]  <raster> the driver SHOULD
 [21:42:44]  <raster> if possible
 [21:42:49]  <raster> but its up to the driver
 [21:42:56]  <raster> if you ran out of vram they may go intosystem ram
 [21:43:07]  <raster> and be migrated to/from video ram on occasion
 [21:43:08]  <stillunknown^ I think you have quite a fast cpu i suppose?
 [21:43:24]  <raster^ 1 core 2 duo, 3ghz
 [21:43:29]  <raster> (So yes)
 [21:43:30]  <raster> :)
 [21:43:36]  <raster> but the vid card isnt slow either
 [21:43:37]  <raster> :)
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[21:43:58]  <stillunknown> In my case xr beats x11.
 [21:43:59]  <reduz> how's the windows GDI performance btw in comparison?
 [21:44:03]  <reduz> just curious
 [21:44:13]  <raster> stillunknown: very odd.
 [21:44:21]  <raster> l nvidia drivers?
 [21:44:29]  <reduz> in my toolkit it seems to be blazing fast (guess since it runs all in kernel mode..)
 [21:44:32]  <raster^ no idea... no windows here.
 [21:44:33]  <raster> :)
 [21:44:37]  <stillunknown> Not the blob, no.
 [21:44:38]  <reduz> oh, heh, same here :(
 [21:44:42]  <raster> crazy french guys do the windows engines
 [21:45:16]  <raster> stillunknown: nv open driver?
 [21:45:23]  <raster> or neuveau?
 [21:45:29]  <raster> nouveau
 [21:45:30]  <raster> i mean
 [21:45:35]  <stillunknown> the latter
 [21:45:49]  <stillunknown> And my card isn't exactly beefy.
 [21:45:50]  <raster> reduz: gdi would share the same softwre engine as the x11/fb etc. engines anyway
 [21:45:54]  <stillunknown> it's a 8400gs
 [21:45:56]  <raster> there is a shared common software core
 [21:46:15]  <raster> so the only difference in x11 and gdi engines is in how to blast the resultant pixels to the screen
 [21:46:29]  <reduz^ oh, i guess it makes sense
 [21:46:30]  <raster> in x - xshmputimage with an shm segment cache
 [21:46:52]  <raster> (so it recycles shm segments between frames to avoid re-allocing them thus avoiding kenrel memset()'s to 0)
 [21:46:59]  <raster> and for gdi.. well - whatever gdi does
 [21:47:01]  <raster> :)
 [21:47:08]  <stillunknown^ once nvidia gets their stuff together (which they seem to be doing) then it should be better
 [21:47:11]  <raster> it does mean we have a mountain of engines
 [21:47:12]  <stillunknown> not that i care that much
 [21:48:02]  <raster> sdl, directdraw, win32_gdi, x11(xlib), qtopia,  x11(xcb), fb, and mem buffer
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[21:48:10]  <raster> stillunknown:  i do hope they do
 [21:48:34]  <raster> i have tried to make these benchmarks as closet to apples vs apples as i can
 [21:48:40]  <raster> ie doing same renderign op
 [21:48:50]  <raster> done entirely through different paths
 [21:48:59]  <raster> but xrender SHOUDL at LEAST match gl
 [21:49:04]  <raster> on the same card
 [21:49:18]  <stillunknown> render looses in one way
 [21:49:35]  <stillunknown> Few operations are batched together.
 [21:49:53]  <stillunknown> Fortunately only benchmarks do scaling by the thousands.
 [21:49:59]  <raster> its possible for the server to queue the ops and batch them itself
 [21:50:14]  <raster> and really - its not the # of ops
 [21:50:20]  <raster> its the raw dara processing
 [21:50:22]  <stillunknown> Yes it is.
 [21:50:36]  <raster> ie having to go scale/blend a few hundred k pixels.. 200+ times.. per frame.
 [21:50:42]  <stillunknown> I checked for evas, and what happens is 50% of time i wait for a spot in the fifo.
 [21:51:18]  <raster> which fifo?
 [21:51:25]  <stillunknown> the gpu's
 [21:51:31]  <raster> hmmm
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[21:51:40]  <raster> its actually accelerating?
 [21:51:45]  <stillunknown> ofcource
 [21:51:51]  <raster> well then :)
 [21:51:54]  <raster> what are your results?
 [21:52:05]  <raster> xr vs x11?
 [21:52:05]  <stillunknown> scaled nearest solid
 [21:52:14]  <stillunknown> 190 vs 180
 [21:52:18]  <raster> HAHAHAHA
 [21:52:22]  <raster> so close
 [21:52:36]  <raster> xrender SHOULD be able to beat softwre soundly
 [21:52:37]  <stillunknown> One is gpu bound, the other cpu bound.
 [21:52:43]  <raster> like several times over
 [21:53:40]  <raster> i've been mulling doing a libpixman enigne
 [21:53:51]  <raster> just so i can bypass the server and play witht he routines directly
 [21:53:53]  <stillunknown> i was slightly wrong, it's more like 300 vs 200
 [21:53:55]  <stillunknown> but still
 [21:54:01]  <raster> then go and hammer pixman into some shape
 [21:54:15]  <raster> but i'm pretty short on time
 [21:54:56]  <stillunknown> The question really is, when do you actually get something like evas in real life?
 [21:55:06]  <stillunknown> outside the massive quantities of glyphs
 [21:55:24]  <raster> all day
 [21:55:25]  <stillunknown> i meant expedite
 [21:55:28]  <raster> for me...
[21:55:38]  <raster> entire widget sets built on it
 [21:55:44]  <raster> all buttons are images - scaled and blended
 [21:55:53]  <raster> all scrollbars, window backgrounds...
 [21:56:03]  <raster> scrolling == re-render whole scrolable region
 [21:56:09]  <raster> as due to blending you cant just blit
 [21:56:11]  <stillunknown> not really
 [21:56:18]  <raster> as you may have a layer underneath/on top that is static
 [21:56:43]  <stillunknown> But that's two layers that need blending.
 [21:56:45]  <stillunknown> Not a 1000.
 [21:57:04]  <raster> evas doesnt store the layers in buffers
 [21:57:10]  <raster> its conservative on video mem allocation
 [21:57:20]  <stillunknown> that's a mistake
 [21:57:21]  <raster> so that means redraw all contents
 [21:57:25]  <raster> depends
 [21:57:30]  <raster> evas runs on embedded platforms
 [21:57:31]  <raster> phones
 [21:57:35]  <raster> and lower
 [21:57:43]  <raster> 32mb ram
 [21:57:45]  <raster> or even less
 [21:57:47]  <raster> one thats 16mb
 [21:58:04]  <stillunknown> If you have any hope of using xrender, then you need to have the option to keep pixmaps allocated and offscreen.
 [21:58:22]  <raster> they will be
 [21:58:31]  <raster> wait - all source and destination buffers are pixmaps
 [21:58:43]  <stillunknown> yes, so?
 [21:58:51]  <raster> so lest say - we have a big scrolledview full of file icons
 [21:59:10]  <raster> when you scroll - it creates a tmp buffer, fills it with whatever objects are behind the icons in whatever config they have
 [21:59:15]  <raster> then draws icons and labels on top
 [21:59:21]  <raster> then blends any overlayed stuff
 [21:59:28]  <raster> then copies to destination (window)
 [21:59:35]  <raster> so it all stays as x primitives
 [21:59:45]  <raster> it doesnt keep a copy of the "icons and labels"
 [21:59:49]  <raster> ad drawn
 [21:59:55]  <raster> as they all are just objects moved around
 [21:59:58]  <raster> or resized
 [22:00:25]  <stillunknown> If you're smart, you keep all the icons and stuff in one pixmap.
 [22:00:39]  <raster> that is not really sane
 [22:00:58]  <raster> you'll run out of video ram quite fast that way
 [22:01:28]  <raster> as such - using gl + textures an dpolys to do this is incredibly fast
 [22:01:39]  <raster> and xrender can and should be able to do the same
 [22:02:01]  <raster> the 3d engine can resample textures very fast
 [22:02:06]  <raster> on the fly
 [22:02:07]  <stillunknown> And gl doesn't use vram?
 [22:02:15]  <raster> of coruse it does
 [22:02:21]  <raster> but you dont need to keep all yoru intermediate buffers
 [22:02:27]  <raster> in fact you dont even need intermediate buffers
 [22:02:45]  <raster> simple example
 [22:02:52]  <raster> my radeon9000
 [22:02:54]  <raster> 64mb vram
 [22:03:04]  <raster> 1 screen of pxiels uses about 8mb
 [22:03:12]  <raster> so fb uses 8
 [22:03:15]  <raster> 56 left
 [22:03:21]  <raster> wallper - another 8
 [22:03:23]  <raster> 48 left.
 [22:03:34]  <raster> ooh but wait. gl likes to pre-alloc 1/2 of vid ram for textures
 [22:03:46]  <raster> 32 gone - doesn to 16 left
 [22:03:50]  <raster> down
 [22:04:03]  <raster> 16 mb now for a fulls screen of icons
 [22:04:06]  <raster> ok - 8 gon
 [22:04:13]  <raster> now the backgorund of my scrolled region... 8 gone
 [22:04:16]  <raster> oops - non left.
 [22:04:23]  <raster> cant evenhave an overlay :(
 [22:04:29]  <raster> and now this would be 1 fm window
 [22:04:33]  <raster> take a few of these around
 [22:04:39]  <raster> or just smaller windows but more of them
 [22:04:41]  <raster> they add up fast
 [22:05:06]  <raster> as such the software engine does a full redraw too
 [22:05:12]  <raster> and.. it can actually smoothly scroll
 [22:05:57]  <raster> i can smoothly scroll a 1920x1200 screen full of file icons
 [22:06:05]  <raster> alpha blended on
 [22:06:13]  <raster> with bg scaled on the fly
 [22:06:20]  <raster> no caches for pre-scaled data
 [22:06:23]  <reduz> doesn't gl keep what doesn't fit offscree and actually uses vram as a cache?
 [22:07:11]  <raster> well vram == offscreen
 [22:07:18]  <raster> but if it doesnt fit - depends on card
 [22:07:26]  <raster> it may be able to map in syzstem ram directly and use it
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[22:07:39]  <raster> or textures need to be migrated by the cpu or dma to/from vram for use
 [22:07:46]  <raster> so it then acts as a cache
 [22:10:47]  <stillunknown> I really have to go to bed now, i look forward to future conversation.
 [22:10:56]  <raster> :)
 [22:10:58]  <raster> nite!
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[22:18:32]  <reduz> geez, xrender is not that difficult, just extremely poorly documented. i get the idea how what most stuff does, but some fields are puzzling
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[22:56:57]  <aaronp> raster: Recent nvidia drivers support transforms, filters, and the fancy repeat modes.
 [22:57:12]  <aaronp> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=118088
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[23:06:22]  <raster> aaronp:  ok. thats new :)
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[23:38:02]  <raster> aaronp: loosk like it got worse!
 [23:38:03]  <raster> :(
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[03:20:48]  <dberkholz> ok, xorg-server 1.5 in gentoo
 [03:26:42]  <dberkholz> ajax: haven't seen the sunffb announce come across yet..
 [03:32:24]  <wereHamster> stable or ~x86?
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[04:04:55]  <dagb> dberkholz: uh. No 1.5 in my portage..?
 [04:05:14]  <dberkholz^ sync
 [04:05:56]  <dagb> I just did
 [04:06:56]  <dberkholz^ so did i, and it's on the server i synced from
 [04:07:07]  <dagb> redoing it for good measure
 [04:07:27]  <dagb> Maybe the mirror I am syncing from isn't uptodate
 [04:08:08]  <dagb> got it.
 [04:08:11]  <dagb> thanks
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[04:37:13]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: me not so happy with 1.5 right now. Something with gl/glx is wrong as glxinfo only shows three visuals.
 [04:38:22]  <wereHamster> any idea what went wrong during the update?
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[05:52:56]  <jg> ping whot
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[08:10:25]  <airlied> wereHamster: you got mesa 7.1?
 [08:12:20]  <whot> jg: pong
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[08:19:14]  <wereHamster> airlied: yes, emerge installed mesa 7.1, xserver 1.5 and the intel driver 2.4.something
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[09:36:00]  <jg> ping whot
 [09:36:57]  <mjg59^ He's en-route to Vienna
 [09:37:46]  <daniels^ schnapps all round
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[10:26:05]  <jg> mjg59: thanks.  No great surprise there.  Vienna is one of my favorite cities.
 [10:26:13]  <jg> and he's Austrian....
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[12:46:23]  <reduz> Question: Is there a way to do an XCreatePixmap without a window?
 [12:46:44]  <reduz> (say, i want to allocate a pixmap but don't have the window yet)
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[12:52:09]  <reduz> oh, DefaultRootWindow
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[13:01:34]  <dagb> airlied: FWIW, I also see 3 GLX Visuals. with the same sw-setup as wereHamster.
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[13:04:15]  <npmccallum> Is there a way to inspect a binary driver to find out what PCI IDs it supports?
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[14:03:55]  <dberkholz> wereHamster, dagb: what if you add Option "GlxVisuals" "all" to the ServerFlags section of your xorg.conf?
 [14:04:15]  <dberkholz> npmccallum: hey! what're you up to these days?
 [14:05:00]  <npmccallum^ top secret projects :)
 [14:05:20]  <npmccallum>
[14:05:23]  <npmccallum> dberkholz: you?
 [14:05:25]  <dberkholz^ cool, just remember to base 'em on gentoo. =)
 [14:06:08]  <npmccallum^ I'll tell you what I'm working on if you'll answer my question from above... :)
 [14:06:10]  <dberkholz> we had a baby on monday, so that's the main focus for the next bit
 [14:06:28]  <npmccallum^ wow, congrats
 [14:07:39]  <Lrrr+ congrats
 [14:08:44]  <Lrrr> My daughter =
 [14:08:47]  <Lrrr> best ever...
 [14:09:30]  <dberkholz> other than that i'm just fixing gentoo
 [14:11:01]  <Lrrr> I suppose it went well if you have the energy if fixing gentoo at this point
 [14:11:14]  <npmccallum> dberkholz: any idea about how to get the pci device matching info out of drivers?
 [14:12:48]  <dberkholz^ from within the server or by an external app?
 [14:12:58]  <npmccallum^ external app
 [14:13:16]  <npmccallum> I basically want to generate a table of modaliases to xorg drivers
 [14:13:29]  <npmccallum> similar to /lib/modules/*/modules.alias
 [14:13:30]  <dberkholz^ why, does autoconfig not work for you with the latest X?
 [14:13:32]  <npmccallum> but for Xorg
 [14:13:45]  <dberkholz> hw/xfree86/common/xf86AutoConfig.c does what you would expect
 [14:13:49]  <npmccallum^ this has nothing to do with autoconfig
 [14:18:46]  <dberkholz^ fedora provides manually maintained .xinf files that have what you want
 [14:18:58]  <dberkholz> probably not well maintained now because autoconfig works
 [14:19:14]  <npmccallum^ this needs to work everywhere
 [14:19:16]  <dberkholz> but kudzu used/uses them
 [14:19:23]  <npmccallum^ not just on one distro
 [14:21:14]  <reduz> XftListFonts lacks any kind of reference and docs :(
 [14:25:38]  <dberkholz> npmccallum: were you so inclined, you could ship them with your app.
 [14:25:46]  <dberkholz> perhaps knowing your use case would help
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[14:37:35]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: that did help with the visuals, but glxgears is still running dead slow (50 fps instead of the 1000 is was running with the older xserver)
 [14:38:45]  <liquidAcid> hi there
 [14:39:25]  <wereHamster> dberkholz: hm, the option helped glxinfo list more visuals, but I still can't run compiz: Fatal: Root visual is not a GL visual
 [14:39:29]  <liquidAcid> short question: when i wanna build the mesa/drm master git with a 2.6.26 kernel, what do i need in addition to the "Export shmem_file_setup and shmem_getpage for DRM-GEM" patch?
 [14:47:43]  <wereHamster> (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable - could that be the problem? The log says DRI1 and GLX did initialize fine, and AIGLX is also active
 [14:47:54]  <dberkholz^ do you have direct rendering working?
 [14:48:15]  <wereHamster^ glxinfo says yes
 [14:48:59]  <cjb+ congrats!
 [14:50:49]  <liquidAcid> or is it not possible to build a drm-gem module for the 2.6.26 kernel?
 [14:51:50]  <wereHamster^ you are better off building the drm-next branch of anholt's kernel, it has all the required patches
 [14:52:23]  <liquidAcid> i can't get that one to compile on my system
 [14:52:33]  <wereHamster> which error?
 [14:52:44]  <liquidAcid> something about firmware, etc.
 [14:53:10]  <liquidAcid> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/lib/firmware/n', needed by `firmware/n.gen.o'.  Stop.
 [14:55:35]  <liquidAcid> the 2.6.26 builds fine, and now i'm searching together the patches to build mesa/drm master git - i already got the shmem patch
 [14:56:03]  <liquidAcid> i think i just try it then, if it's not working i can always go back
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[15:41:03]  <reduz> Dude
 [15:41:16]  <reduz> how comes fontconfig gives me some fonts (Mono ones) as like, translated in tons of languages?
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[15:41:28]  <reduz> just what's the point? :(
 [15:41:41]  <reduz> i have no idea if it's just a different style or the same with a different name
 [15:42:12]  <reduz> I'll just ignore that for those stupid Mono fonts
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[15:50:47]  <cjb> vignatti: hey, congrats on pushing your input stuff upstream :)
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[18:05:35]  <jcristau> wereHamster: gears says 50 fps because that's your refresh rate
 [18:05:50]  <jcristau> and the dri driver defaults to sync to vblank now
 [18:06:14]  <wereHamster> ah. If that's the case then it's ok
 [18:08:18]  <wereHamster> compiz not running (due to the missing visuals) is the only issue left now. Fortunately I don't need compiz right now, so I'll wait a bit and see if updating any of the X libraries/drivers fix it.
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[20:59:09]  <npmccallum> I want to add a new option to X (similar to the -configure option that already exists), yet I can't seem to find main().  Can someone direct me to the right file?
 [21:14:39]  <Lrrr^ xserver/dix/main.c
 [21:15:06]  <npmccallum^ I saw that, I also grepped for "-configure"
 [21:15:49]  <npmccallum> I basically want the option to cause X to load all modules, dump the pciaccess data to the log and exit
 [21:16:01]  <npmccallum> should I basically copy the DoConfigure() method?
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[21:19:25]  <Lrrr> npmccallum: Can't help you on that really.  I just knew where main() was since I dwelved a bit into the code.
 [21:19:59]  <npmccallum^ awesome, thanks!
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[22:01:35]  <liquidAcid> hi there, so i patched my 2.6.26 with the shmem_file_setup diff and tried to compiled mesa/drm git against it
 [22:02:07]  <liquidAcid> seems like i'm lacking a patch: init_mm is not found, looks like it was removed from 2.6.26 - however i found no patches to reinclude it
 [22:02:28]  <liquidAcid> does 2.6.27 export this again??
 [22:04:10]  <liquidAcid> however in both 2.6.25 AND 26 i find this EXPORT_UNUSED_SYMBOL(init_mm);
 [22:04:16]  <liquidAcid> so where is the difference???
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[23:39:50]  <eboyjr> Hello! I am developing a WM with Python and Xlib. I am having trouble figuring out how to set Xsettings. Any ideas? At the very least, is there a command that will take care of that?
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----- [2008-09-07] -----
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[02:06:39]  <reduz> Question! Is there any way to rotate the text drawn with Xft ?
 [02:07:36]  <reduz> ah, it has a matrix
 [02:07:50]  <AStorm> any mesa-gallium developer around?
 [02:07:57]  <reduz> not me
 [02:08:02]  <AStorm> because I have a funny build error with your git
 [02:08:23]  <AStorm> http://rafb.net/p/NYfYIL38.html
 [02:11:00]  <AStorm> hm, or maybe it's just nouveau's piece of cake
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[02:59:03]  <thep> daniels: hi, are you around?
 [03:00:57]  <thep> just wanna ask for comment for bug #16475
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[06:42:33]  <glisse> mjg59: http://people.freedesktop.org/~glisse/atomtools.tar.bz2
 [06:42:48]  <glisse> this is atomtools hack i used to downclock GPU
[06:42:51]  <glisse> and memory
 [06:43:10]  <glisse> atomtools.c is where you can tweak things
 [06:50:49]  <mjg59^ Sweet
 [06:50:57]  <mjg59> I'll try to score a Radeon this week and have a play
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[09:38:05]  <jg> ping whot
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[11:07:31]  <vignatti> cjb: thanks dude :)
 [11:07:48]  <vignatti> but I really really wish to make real the other alternative
 [11:08:02]  <vignatti> (to push input acceleration and the cursor update bits to kernel)
 [11:08:18]  <vignatti> cjb: but I cannot guarantee to do this stuff soon
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[11:47:38]  <wereHamster> isn't kernel code guaranteed to stay in ram and not be swapped out under any circumstances?
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[11:50:09]  <kylem> yes.
 [12:17:45]  <reduz> soo. Question, is there any way to get Xft to draw rotated and normal text without having to load many times the same font?
 [12:23:02]  <reduz> the only way i see that seems to be 1) creating a rotation matrix when loadig the font (if XFT_MATRIX means that, i suspect not) 2) Somehow use the XRender "Xtransform" when drawing, although i have no idea how
 [12:23:13]  <reduz> so, any help would be very appreciated!
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[13:55:48]  <reduz> :(
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[15:37:43]  <reduz> XRenderSetPictureTransform seems to only work on the source picture, so it's useless for text :(
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[16:07:45]  <reduz> guess this channel id dead on sunday
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[18:39:54]  <reduz> ok Question, does X have any sort of standard-like library for loading images?
 [18:40:13]  <reduz> or at least some library close to X that loads/saves images? (from XImage or XPixmap)
 [18:41:18]  <stillunknown> I don't think so, but don't take my word on it :-)
 [18:41:50]  <Lrrr> Ditto
 [18:42:04]  <reduz> is imlib somewhat considered standard?
 [18:42:23]  <reduz> or libimagemagick ?
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[18:43:39]  <reduz> if not, is there any BSD-licensed image loading/saving library I can use?
 [18:43:45]  <stillunknown> Normally this would the time to ask why you are not using a toolkit?
 [18:43:57]  <reduz> beause I am developing a toolkit
 [18:44:07]  <ajax> the second question is then...
 [18:44:48]  <npmccallum^ ping
 [18:45:23]  <ajax> yes?
 [18:45:53]  <npmccallum> first off, sorry for having your name / email address in that patch :)
 [18:47:31]  <ajax> which?  if it was in email you'll have to forgive me, i don't read mail on weekends, in the name of preserving my sanity.
 [18:47:38]  <npmccallum> , smart man
 [18:47:46]  <ajax> (and i took friday off because i deserved a long weekend)
 [18:48:02]  <npmccallum> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-September/038280.html
 [18:48:43]  <ajax> nice!
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[18:48:52]  <reduz> ook, guess i'll just have to do it myself using libpng/libjpg/etc
 [18:49:35]  <airlied^ you didn't answer the second question..
 [18:50:16]  <reduz^ i don't know what the second question is
 [18:50:17]  <ajax> "the second question", since i didn't state it explicitly, was "why are you writing a toolkit"
 [18:51:17]  <ajax> i mean, it's fine to be into bondage and all, but most people aren't.
 [18:51:29]  <reduz> guess the quick answer is because i can, the long answer is that i'm not satisfied with trolltech licensing model for their commercial version
 [18:52:05]  <npmccallum> ajax: also, if you feel so inclined, I'd love to get some feedback for the patch (its small)
 [18:52:07]  <reduz> also, toolkit is mostly done, i'm just trying to figure out how to port it to X11
 [18:55:55]  <ajax> npmccallum: looks good offhand, i'm not sure why it's crashing but i can take a look on monday.
 [18:56:37]  <npmccallum^ it crashes in the ati driver in the function which tries to load the subdrivers
 [18:57:11]  <npmccallum> thanks, have a good weekend!
 [18:57:26]  <ajax> hate that wrapper.  hate it so hard.
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[18:58:02]  <ajax> my name is mc ajax and i'm here to say, metamodules are stupid, don't use them.
 [18:58:31]  <ajax> (wow.  that was terrible.  i apologize.)
 [18:59:04]  <airlied> ajax you deserve a street team..
 [19:07:31]  <reduz> x11 must definitely be the most difficult windowing api to write for..
 [19:08:56]  <halfline> reduz: yea generally people don't write their own toolkits
 [19:09:10]  <mjg59> You'd probably be better of targetting gdk or something
 [19:09:13]  <mjg59> Rather than X11 directly
 [19:09:38]  <halfline> still hard
 [19:09:53]  <mjg59> Yeah, but still preferable to X11
 [19:10:25]  <mjg59> Mind you, this might be a knife in the face against a nail through the hand type of comparison
 [19:10:26]  <reduz> gdk is like.. x11 with different names
 [19:10:31]  <reduz> so i don't know why should i bother
 [19:11:10]  <reduz> it's not so bad so far, just some functions do less than you'd expect
 [19:11:35]  <reduz> when i check the sourcecode of some toolkits, they really do big hacks to workaround x11 limitations
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[19:16:01]  <reduz> XRender and Xft are lifesavers so far
 [19:18:21]  <stillunknown^ The extensions do exist for a reason.
 [19:19:33]  <reduz> I dont think i'm even bothering to support plain X
 [19:21:44]  <raster> possibly not worth it these days
 [19:21:50]  <mjg59> It's ok, I'd be surprised if any significant quantity of modern code did
 [19:21:52]  <raster> though i would just for completeness
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[19:45:41]  <reduz> raster, i guess i can add a base X11 backend at some point, but i think it's not very important
 [19:46:20]  <raster> yeah
 [19:46:23]  <raster> not for modern systems
 [19:46:30]  <raster> but sooner or later someone will say
 [19:47:07]  <raster> "i have an ncd xterminal from 1989" or "i have an old sparc classic" etc. etc. they want to remote display the app onto ...
 [19:47:07]  <raster> :L)
 [19:47:36]  <airlied> a valid is answer is "thats nice"
 [19:47:51]  <raster> heheheheh
 [19:49:05]  <reduz> heh "good for you, pal"
 [19:51:31]  <reduz> doesn't seem like i can draw AA lines using XRender, unless it interprets degenerates as lines
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[19:54:55]  <reduz> doesn't seem like i can force it to not draw a background color on the exposed areas either
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[20:01:14]  <raster> use trapezoids
 [20:01:19]  <raster> for lines
 [20:01:20]  <raster> :)
 [20:01:27]  <raster> u'll have to calculate the trapezoid yourself
 [20:01:30]  <raster> :)
 [20:01:46]  <raster> and no bg color?
 [20:01:50]  <reduz> i guess that's not a problem, but won't a 1-pixel one be non-visible?
 [20:01:52]  <raster> you want it transparent - the window?
 [20:02:31]  <reduz> no.. more like, since i want to draw the background myself, make X not redraw the background too
 [20:02:43]  <reduz> so i save X some performance i guess
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[20:07:57]  <reduz> ok, i guess i have the X11 backend more or less done, can improve it later
 [20:08:06]  <reduz> http://reduz.dyndns.org/backendtest.png <- all weekend for this :(
 [20:09:19]  <raster^ set backgroundpixmap of the widnow to 0
 [20:09:21]  <raster> ie none
 [20:09:25]  <raster> then x will nto draw anything
 [20:09:44]  <raster> it will leave the window with whatever framebuffer garbage is there and its up to you on an expose event to fill it in
 [20:09:45]  <raster> :)
 [20:09:53]  <reduz> oh, thanks! didn't think of that
 [20:10:07]  <raster> :)
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[20:13:28]  <mlLK> what sorta input is ts?
 [20:13:34]  <mlLK> /dev/input/ts#
 [20:16:10]  <raster> touchscreen?
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[20:16:43]  <mlLK> thats right
 [20:16:44]  <mlLK> what does xorg.conf Option "CorePointer" signify?
 [20:17:00]  <mlLK> for mouse input
 [20:17:11]  <raster> the default main mouse poitner
 [20:17:18]  <raster> the one you see that moves around when the mouse mvoes
 [20:17:30]  <mlLK> so it might be necessary if i'm adding buttons to my mouse eh?
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[20:17:40]  <mlLK> i'm on a laptop
 [20:17:53]  <mlLK> so is ts my touch pad?
 [20:18:22]  <mlLK> doubtful
 [20:18:46]  <raster> dunno
 [20:18:54]  <raster> ok
 [20:18:59]  <raster> time to clear up my tabs
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[20:21:27]  <reduz> oh and right when i thought i was done, i realized i'm still lacking to implement proper keycode conversion
 [20:21:28]  <reduz> _awesome_
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[20:22:16]  <reduz> this is going to be super
 [20:22:22]  <npmccallum> airlied: http://pastebin.com/m5e57b391
 [20:22:25]  <reduz> i hope there a ready-to-help me extension
 [20:22:31]  <npmccallum> airlied: I got a backtrace
 [20:23:40]  <airlied^ oh nice.. the mouse seems to disappear
 [20:23:48]  <airlied> does bluetooth disconnector
 [20:23:49]  <airlied> ?
 [20:24:10]  <airlied> that'll be one for whot to look at.
 [20:24:30]  <npmccallum> I occasionally use a bluetooth mouse, but I haven't used it in probably 3-4 weeks
 [20:24:45]  <airlied> well that oops is due to it going away by the looks of it.
 [20:24:52]  <airlied> we shouldn't crash.
 [20:25:05]  <airlied> but whot would know what the right answer is when he gets back.
 [20:25:35]  <npmccallum> I also got a backtrace for the radeon system
 [20:26:29]  <reduz> why lord, why
 [20:27:02]  <npmccallum> airlied: http://pastebin.com/m60971c37
 [20:28:55]  <npmccallum> I thought radeon was on EXA by default these days...
 [20:29:30]  <airlied^ nope not yet.
 [20:29:47]  <airlied> hmm that one is bad.
 [20:30:06]  <npmccallum^ what makes it bad?
 [20:30:19]  <airlied> XAA crash is not a nice thing to figure out
 [20:30:51]  <npmccallum> Could I just switch that system to EXA?
 [20:31:01]  <npmccallum> Does EXA work? what are the drawbacks?
 [20:31:17]  <cjb> airlied: you can take the libertas driver wireless crash I'm looking at instead, if you like :)
 [20:31:28]  <airlied> npmccallum: EXA should work fine..
 [20:31:38]  <airlied> it might be a bit slower but probably not noticalbly.
 [20:31:46]  <cjb> might even be faster :)
 [20:32:26]  <npmccallum> airlied: what is holding radeon back from exa-by-default?
 [20:32:51]  <airlied^ mainly a server with the pixmap caching in it.
 [20:32:58]  <airlied> glyph pixmap caching even.
 [20:33:01]  <npmccallum^ 1.6.0?
 [20:33:31]  <airlied> yup.. I'll probably enable it in F10 in any case.
 [20:37:02]  <npmccallum^ is XAA deprecated?
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[20:37:58]  <airlied> npmccallum: it will be when EXA surpasses it..
 [20:38:10]  <airlied> for kernel modesetting and memory manager stuff, XAA can't work really.
 [20:39:21]  <fredrikh> XAA is also unmaintained
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[21:06:23]  <ajax> not that it needs much by way of maintenance
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[21:38:53]  <daniels> reduz: that ready-made solution is called a toolkit ... again, writting toolkits sucks.
 [21:43:53]  <npmccallum^ hey, what's up?
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[22:20:11]  <reduz> daniels, but this is a lot of fun!
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[01:15:27]  <reduz> time to go into Qt sourcecode and see how they solve the unsolvable
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[02:17:42]  <reduz> dude, managing keyboard input seems to be just like
 [02:17:49]  <reduz> the most complicated thing ever in all creation
 [02:18:13]  <reduz> this will be pretty difficult
 [02:20:25]  <reduz> qkeymapper_x11.cpp is a living nightmare
 [02:20:41]  <reduz> at least it's a good reference
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[02:30:41]  <dagb> reduz: judging by what is said in http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12 , others have also found input in X11 to be suboptimal.
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[03:03:43]  <tjaalton> whot: ping? a user has strange problems with synaptics properties. he should have all the needed packages but xinput list-props "$dev" gives a BadDevice error ("invalid or uninitialized input device")
 [03:04:20]  <tjaalton> it's https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/267611
 [03:05:05]  <tjaalton> also, the slow appletouch is somehow related to xserver 1.5, with 1.4.2 it's ok
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[03:10:28]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:19:14]  <whot> tjaalton: pong, one sec
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[03:27:38]  <whot> tjaalton: I have no idea. best guess is that xinput busts the ID up. does it work with the device id instead of the name?
 [03:30:22]  <tjaalton^ ok, I'll ask
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[03:31:37]  <whot> tjaalton: slow appletouch is probably in the driver. could it be xf86-input-synaptics vs. synaptics?
 [03:32:51]  <tjaalton^ hmm I'm not sure I follow..
 [03:33:46]  <whot^ did you switch from ynaptics to xf86-input-synaptics
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[03:34:20]  <tjaalton> whot: this is the 0.15 from fd.o, yes. previously it was the GPL
 [03:34:23]  <tjaalton> 'd version
 [03:35:51]  <whot^ I guess it's some code missing from xf86... that was there in synaptics
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[03:36:13]  <tjaalton> whot: hmm ok
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[03:37:53]  <whot> tjaalton: MinSpeed = 0.79, MaxSpeed 0.88, AccelFactor 0.0015 - put those into your fdi file
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[03:38:34]  <tjaalton> synaptics doesn't seem to have it's own category on bugs.fd.o
 [03:39:02]  <tjaalton> whot: ok I'll ask them to test, thanks
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[03:45:06]  <tjaalton> whot: one other problem is that the vertical scrolling area has become a bit too thin to be usable, but that should be quirked or just left to the user to configure through properties?
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[03:46:32]  <whot> tjaalton: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/xorg-x11-drv-synaptics/devel/xf86-input-synaptics-0.15.0-edges.patch?view=log
 [03:47:39]  <tjaalton^ bad irssi.. that's the edge detection patch?
 [03:48:17]  <whot^ it's the leave 5% on each side patch
 [03:48:44]  <tjaalton^ right
 [03:49:08]  <mjg59+ Have you checked the specs? They define the area that should be (a) ignored (as being under plastic) and (b) used for edge scrolling
 [03:54:08]  <whot^ oh, nice. didn't know that. thanks
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[05:56:59]  <johnflux> good morning all!
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[05:57:18]  <JohnFlux> how was XDS?
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[06:18:34]  <Dr_Jakob> Just fine
 [06:18:42]  <Dr_Jakob> Fun to meet all the people
 [06:26:01]  <mjg59^ Fun to meet you, too
 [06:26:24]  <Dr_Jakob> Thanks.
 [06:27:09]  <johnflux> i just read over the notes
 [06:27:26]  <johnflux> a few typing mistakes :-)  but sounds like a lot was covered
 [06:27:44]  <Dr_Jakob> mjg59: I have to apologies for scareing you the night to friday. :-)
 [06:27:52]  <mjg59> Ha
 [06:27:59]  <mjg59> It was ok, I'd just woken up
 [06:28:07]  <Dr_Jakob> Hehe
 [06:28:13]  <mjg59> Really wasn't with it yet
 [06:28:58]  <Dr_Jakob> Did you go to the pizza place?
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[06:29:35]  <mjg59> Nah, Subway
 [06:29:41]  <Dr_Jakob> Ok
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[06:29:52]  <mjg59> There was a 20-something year old bottle of port waiting for me back in the room
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[06:31:11]  <Dr_Jakob> oh nice
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[06:39:34]  <tjaalton> whot: setting those options made appletouch work better
 [06:41:57]  <tjaalton> what limits using only integer properties and no floats?
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[07:05:41]  <whot> tjaalton: simply that I haven't implemented them yet
 [07:08:52]  <tjaalton^ ah :) take your time
 [07:11:48]  <jcristau^ the right answer was "i'll send you a patch"
 [07:13:37]  <tjaalton^ obviously, but it would take a huge amount of time for me to try and implement som^H^H^Hanything in C ;)
 [07:14:19]  <tjaalton> I wonder if wgrant would be willing though..
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[07:44:24]  <wereHamster> is plymouth == fedora 10 ?
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[07:49:52]  <daniels> plymouth is the rhgb replacement that may or may not be part of f10
 [07:50:38]  <johnflux> rhgb = redhat graphical boot - This is a GUI mode booting screen with most of the information hidden while the user sees a rotating activity icon spining ...
 [07:50:45]  <johnflux> (googled)
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[08:56:29]  <johnflux> what's KMS?
 [08:56:43]  <Dr_Jakob^ Kernel ModeSetting
 [08:56:44]  <johnflux> some sort of skin care cream hmm
 [08:56:45]  <jcristau> kernel mode setting
 [08:56:47]  <johnflux> oh :-)
 [08:57:45]  <johnflux> with keithp's UXA split of pixmap management and acceleration, it will still be possible to change the pixmap management hooks right?
 [08:58:10]  <johnflux> for those of us modifying the pixmap management for UMA systems
 [08:58:36]  <stillunknown> keithp seemed less than fond of those hooks, so your best bet is to check the code
 [09:01:04]  <stillunknown> johnflux: It also depends on what happens with UXA.
 [09:01:25]  <stillunknown> (merge with exa or stay a fork)
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[09:09:36]  <ajax> the main motivation for uxa was exactly "rip out all the stuff that gets in the way on UMA systems"
 [09:11:43]  <johnflux^ well, that's good
 [09:11:54]  <johnflux> I basically want to just have _all_ pixmaps 'offscreen'
 [09:12:06]  <johnflux> probably like any UMA system
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[09:16:57]  <tomsh> hi, i have a problem with Xephyr and remote session during a vpn connection
 [09:17:02]  <tomsh> it use real address instead of vpn address for display
 [09:17:07]  <tomsh> on mac os x
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[09:31:26]  <jg> ping whot
  
----- Log file opened 2008-09-08T09:38 -----
----- Log file closed 2008-09-08T09:40 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-09-08T09:40 -----
[09:40:54]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
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[09:40:55]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: [AD]Turbo aggelos agoode ahf airlied ajax anderco anholt antrik b0le Batchy Battousai bbyer bgoglin bobbens bryce buggs cbrake cjb coling crossbuilder ctyler cworth d-aliegri dagb daniels darktama dberkholz Dodji dr-xorg Dr_Jakob DrNick ds dwmw2_gone egbert_away emmes erikg fcarrijo_ fdd-0 fifthbro flssrswkgd geaaru_ glisse gmansi gordon_jin gustaf1 hachi halfline halfline_ Herman hw__ Ingmar jcristau jg johnflux keithp kem kylem leio libv londo_onholidays Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu marvil07 math_b Mercury mjg59 mmc mpr MrCooper mvo ndim ohsix Ori_B osiris__ otavio pcpa pete__c pjones Plagman_ punto Q-FUNK red_ reduz ribbits rnoland rvalles sangu solarion soren spstarr_work sputnik66 stillunknown stringfellow Strunkenbold svu t4bz TBBle tcoppi tecnmmag thep tibbs|h tilman tjaalton TMM tomsh torindel Trigger7 vignatti vtorri Wallbraker wereHamster whot z3ro_ Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[10:02:59]  <tomsh> can i tell to X to bind an ip address?
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[10:22:37]  <keithp> johnflux: build some GEM love on your box and uxa will fit nicely
 [10:23:02]  <jg> morning keithp
 [10:24:16]  <johnflux> keithp: sounds good
 [10:24:47]  <keithp^ and yes, uxa will be merged back to exa once we've figure out a good split between acceleration and pixmap management
 [10:25:11]  <jg^ how's the jetlag?
 [10:25:12]  * keithp leaves for all day meeting. what fun
 [10:25:17]  <jg> my condolences.
 [10:25:23]  <keithp^ plenty of sleep at least. ta ta
 [10:25:55]  <jcristau> you should have minions to send to meetings in your place
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[10:36:55]  <azurief|work> hi all
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[10:42:21]  <azurief> I actually working on the matchbox-window-manager, and a strange thing has arised to me. When changing the gravity of a window, matchbox always catch a NorthWest gravity. Matchbox gets the gravity attribute from a window through the XGetAsyncReply call. I have checked the reply from this call and indeed, the gravity is always the same. could anyone give a clue how XGetAsyncReply work?
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[10:45:23]  <ajax> are you sure it's not just that all your windows have northwest gravity?
 [10:47:28]  <azurief^ I've verified with xprop and it shows the right gravity :(
 [10:47:50]  <mjg59> Hmm.
 [10:48:08]  <mjg59> Can anyone think of any way that AdjustTimer could get caught in a tight loop?
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[11:10:51]  <rtcm> ajax: if you read my mail and want to talk to me in real time I'm here
 [11:13:55]  <ajax> i'm sorry, who are you?  /whois isn't being helpful
 [11:14:17]  <rtcm> just sent you a mail, name's Rui
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[11:28:21]  <ajax> hmm.  someone should do some elf section matching magic like the kernel's initdata hackery, to move all the input stuff to its own section and warn if it ever calls functions outside that section.
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[11:29:58]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, istr discussing it a while back
 [11:30:23]  <daniels> i'm sure we could do it statically with sparse.
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[11:30:41]  <daniels> that could presumably also help with using unsafe code from a signal handler.
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[11:43:23]  <johnflux> when implementing xrender operations:   min(1,(1-Aa)/Ab)   for example,  I convert Ab and Aa to 16 bit floats, do the operation, then convert back to 8bits, clamping between 0 and 1?
 [11:43:37]  <johnflux> specifically I'm checking that I can do the operation as a 16 float
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[11:44:44]  <johnflux> I can imagine getting very slightly different colors if there divide is done as a 16bit float or 32bit float
 [11:44:54]  <ajax> float16 is fine, yes.
 [11:46:17]  <rtcm^ thanks, will talk to the teacher right now and will let you know about it later
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[11:47:10]  <johnflux> ajax: thanks
 [11:47:33]  <aaronp> Would anyone object to me changing the major ABI version in master?  Commit 883811c is causing crashes for people.
 [11:48:40]  <daniels^ if that's TryClientEvents, then it would seem prudent, yes
 [11:48:48]  <johnflux> we should have a script that checks whether the ABI has changed
 [11:49:03]  <johnflux> might be easy to add
 [11:49:19]  <ajax> i've considered it more than once.
 [11:49:45]  <ajax> it's not quite turing complete to do, but it's unpleasant.
 [11:49:51]  <johnflux> ah okay
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[11:50:13]  <ajax> it's one thing to catch function signature changes
 [11:50:31]  <wereHamster> move all ABI related symbol definitions to one header and whenever that changes bump the ABI number
 [11:50:34]  <aaronp> ajax: This touches the videodrv, xinput, and extension ABIs, right?
 [11:50:44]  <ajax> it's a bit harder to walk signatures to find out every ABI type
 [11:51:12]  <pjones> well, you also can't check e.g. opaque pointer changes at all.
 [11:51:21]  <ajax> aaronp: sounds right to me.
 [11:51:28]  <daniels> actually, mandating a version bump (either major or minor) every time something in $(includedir)/xorg changes isn't a terrible idea, but jesus that'd be a lot of bumps.
 [11:51:31]  <aaronp> +#define ABI_VIDEODRV_VERSION   SET_ABI_VERSION(5, 0)
 [11:51:31]  <aaronp> +#define ABI_XINPUT_VERSION     SET_ABI_VERSION(4, 0)
 [11:51:32]  <aaronp> +#define ABI_EXTENSION_VERSION  SET_ABI_VERSION(2, 0)
 [11:51:41]  <daniels^ ack
 [11:51:44]  <mjg59^ Yeah, easier to just wait until nvidia breaks :)
 [11:51:45]  <aaronp> Thanks.
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[11:52:07]  <aaronp> mjg59: Agreed.  :)
 [11:52:07]  <ajax> passive-agressive abi versioning
 [11:52:25]  <pjones> next on fox: when abi versions attack.
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[12:15:29]  <aaronp> D'oh.  I wish there were a way to fix commit message typos.
 [12:15:34]  <aaronp> Oh well.
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[12:19:50]  <fredrikh> aaronp: i think you can if you reset the master branch to the commit before your commit, then redo it and force a push
 [12:19:59]  <fredrikh> but i guess that's not recommended :)
 [12:21:34]  <daniels> depends on how quick you are
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[12:21:41]  <daniels> i'd be lying if i said i'd never done an uncommit
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[12:31:00]  <johnflux> just do commit --append
 [12:31:10]  <johnflux> to modify the commit message for the last commit
 [12:31:29]  <johnflux> if it's not the last commit, it's harder :-D
 [12:33:30]  <CosmicPenguin> Learn to live with your typos - wear them like a badge of honor
 [12:33:40]  <CosmicPenguin> "I'm too busy inventing the future to spell things better"
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[12:41:00]  <reduz-work> Question: In X11, how does one make keysyms dependent on the keyboard layout? I try changing the keyboard layout but the keysyms i obtain from keypresses are always the same.. Is there any extension that handles keyboard layouts as well as (hopefully) unicode?
 [12:42:01]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: I'll make sure to remember that one, the day someone yells "all your typos are belong to us." ;)
 [12:42:51]  <mjg59> We're inventing the future now?
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[12:43:04]  <ajax> it's like the past, but worse.
 [12:45:33]  <reduz-work> :(
 [12:49:36]  <reduz-work> ok, is there anyone in here i can ask questions to, that may have an answer?
[12:49:59]  <reduz-work> more like.. anyone that has a general idea on using X11 and the extensions, as almost nothing is docummented
 [12:50:08]  <reduz-work> -m
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[12:50:29]  <ajax> the curse of having the source...
 [12:50:54]  <reduz-work> i have the source, but that doesn't make it automatically comprehensible
 [12:51:04]  <reduz-work> specially the extensions
 [12:51:15]  <reduz-work> core X11 isn't very complicated
 [12:51:37]  <ajax> i just meant that the curse is that the documentation is typically terrible
 [12:51:49]  <reduz-work> oh :(
 [12:52:07]  <reduz-work> even with the source code, many times i really have no idea where to look for
 [12:52:25]  <stillunknown> A well documented header file is the best around it seems.
 [12:52:35]  <reduz-work^ i have yet to find one
 [12:53:13]  <reduz-work> as in, I don't even know if x11 or any extension supports unicode or how to obtain the proper keymapping dependent keysym, or if i'm actually looking for a keysym or something else
 [12:53:28]  <ajax> X typically has little to say about character encoding
 [12:53:42]  <reduz-work> Qt does everything itself, including keymapping, so it's not a good reference
 [12:53:53]  <ajax> when it does, it generally requires something other than unicode since it quite predates unicode
 [12:54:25]  <ajax> hey cool, that seems to work.
 [12:54:38]  <stillunknown> that being?
 [12:55:10]  <ajax> fixing npmccallum's modalias patch to not crash on the ati metadriver
 [12:55:15]  <reduz-work> well i'm more like, X11 completely ignores my keyboard mapping, yet i remember setting a keyboard mapping in gnome preferences, so that info must be somewhere
 [12:55:52]  <reduz-work> it doesn't seem to be gnome-specific either
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[12:58:58]  <stillunknown> Maybe xmodmap can be a source of inspiration.
 [13:01:14]  <reduz-work> oh true, i remember there was an app many years ago that showed the keyboard map
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[13:13:35]  <ajax> hmm.  i kinda want to add just enough ddc/ci support to grab the vcp capability string and dump it in the log
 [13:14:28]  <ajax> but then i'd get asked why we don't support more of it.
 [13:14:35]  <stillunknown> vcp?
 [13:14:44]  <dagb> no good deed goes unpunished
 [13:14:44]  <ajax> "virtual code point"
 [13:14:48]  <ajax> feature list, basically.
 [13:14:57]  <ajax> er, "virtual control panel", sorry.
 [13:16:07]  <stillunknown> answer: Because you(the person asking) haven't coded it yet ;-)
 [13:16:18]  <ajax> ci is supposed to be this layer on top of ddc to allow host software to set things that you'd otherwise have to touch the front panel buttons to configure
 [13:16:22]  <ajax> pfft.
 [13:16:26]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/ddcci.patch
 [13:17:36]  <ajax> anyway it kinda sucks
 [13:18:04]  <ajax> partly because the format of the vcp string is not well defined, so it's really hard to parse to know what controls the display actually has
 [13:18:46]  <ajax> and then also because i2c is kinda slow and we're single-threaded.
 [13:19:33]  <ajax> i2c thread isn't the worst idea ever, i suppose
 [13:19:51]  <vignatti> whot: ping
 [13:20:56]  <stillunknown> ajax: Why do you want this info anyway?
 [13:21:13]  <ajax> because it's a useful feature if it works
 [13:21:32]  <ajax> but i can't build a reliable vcp string parser until i've seen a few dozen strings
 [13:21:54]  <ajax> since, as mentioned, it's not well defined, so i need to see what i'm trying to fuzzy-match against before trying to build the fuzzy matcher.
 [13:25:07]  <stillunknown> I've always used ddccontrol for my monitor.
 [13:25:47]  <ajax> two apps fighting for the i2c bus on a device isn't a great idea
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[13:26:43]  <stillunknown> ajax: I was referring to potentional inspiration.
 [13:27:09]  <ajax> last i checked it didn't really try to parse the vcp string
 [13:27:23]  <ajax> just smashed on every codepoint it found and hoped it found something.
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[13:30:23]  <stillunknown> That would explain the long'ish start time.
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[13:54:43]  <reduz-work> oh yeah "xev" is everything i need
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[14:19:02]  <ajax> boo, no agd5f
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[14:34:25]  <whot> vignatti: pong
 [14:38:23]  <rtcm> ajax: so, the teachers gave me green light to do the project :-)
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[14:40:16]  <rtcm> now, I've got to wrap my head around all these X structures...
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[14:42:23]  <rtcm> any recomended reading? I've got git versions of xcb/proto, xorg/doc/xorg-docs and xorg/xserver
 [14:42:38]  <wereHamster^ no, the structure wrap around your head
 [14:42:48]  <rtcm> heh
 [14:43:50]  <rtcm> I think I'll have to step though the code with gdb to understand the whole loop
 [14:44:16]  <rtcm> maybe with xnest is easear
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[14:45:22]  <wereHamster> what are you trying to understand?
 [14:47:06]  <rtcm^ the dispatch code, to replace it with generated protocol parsing/validation code
 [14:47:22]  <rtcm> generated from the xcb-xml protocol descriptions
 [14:47:35]  <jcristau> ooh. \o/
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[14:52:11]  <wereHamster> damn. That's what I wanted to do :(
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[14:52:46]  <rtcm> wereHamster: oh
 [14:52:55]  <rtcm> have you started already?
 [14:53:01]  <ajax> ooh, i like this.
 [14:53:06]  <wereHamster> for the core dispatch (X11 core protocol), look at dix/dispatch.c, for the extensions look in the respective subdirectories
 [14:53:17]  <ajax> i can mention ideas on mailing lists and have people falling over themselves to implement them for me?
 [14:53:34]  <ajax> *sniff*
 [14:53:43]  <ajax> i'm just so happy.
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[14:53:56]  <ajax> i'd like to thank the academy, my parents for always being there for me...
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[14:54:09]  <rtcm> wereHamster: yeah, that's where I am
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[14:54:21]  <wereHamster> only some test changes, to see what changes would be needed in other parts of the xserver and the xcb protocol description
 [14:55:34]  <rtcm> I'm thinking of doing this as my final year project but well, we can collaborate anyway :-)
 [14:55:53]  <ajax> there's plenty enough work there to keep more than one person busy
 [14:56:08]  <ajax> particularly if they're not already familiar with the protocol
 [14:56:23]  <wereHamster> if we go forward and generate the protocol bindings, it would be useful to add security and basic protocol validation at the same time (neither of which is currently described in the xcb xml files)
 [14:57:16]  <ajax> indeed.
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[14:57:35]  <wereHamster> if you look at the dispatch code, a lot of it deals with ressource lookup (and security checking at the same time), and validation (this field has to be >=0 and <3 etc)
 [14:58:34]  <rtcm^ I figure, you're already familiar with the protocol?
 [14:59:26]  <wereHamster> I would't say familiar, I just read the code through and laid out the implementation in my head
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[15:02:36]  <rtcm> wereHamster: what's your mail? I might have some questions later :-)
 [15:03:14]  <wereHamster> tom@dbservice.com
 [15:03:57]  <rtcm> I've got to dash now, thanks, will talk to you later
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[15:08:24]  <rvel> hello
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[15:09:46]  <rvel> I'm using the radeonhd driver on an X1650, but I'm having trouble to get direct rendering working...
 [15:09:49]  <rvel> any ideas?
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[15:12:11]  <rvel> LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose doesn't give any output, for some reason
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[15:12:36]  <adar> licensing related question: xserver/mi/miregion.c has a special license to deal with "panoramix components", and that license changed in commit 2fb588620030ad393f8500d60e16144d59e4effe
 [15:12:55]  <adar> it used to be quite restrictive, and now it looks like an X11/MIT license
 [15:13:15]  <adar> anyone know 1) whether that license is stlil relevant (are there panoramix components in miregion.c) and 2) why the license wording was changed in that commit?
 [15:14:16]  <rvel> MrCooper, do you have an idea?
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[15:18:04]  <stillunknown> rvel: radeonhd is not a 3d driver last i checked
 [15:18:11]  <Quibus> ah
 [15:18:53]  <z3ro_> stillunknown: iirc radeonhd does have DRI support now... but I have no idea about how well it works (if at all)
 [15:19:37]  <Quibus> darn, I completely forgot about that
 [15:19:49]  <Quibus> I tried fglrx on this beast, but it gave a very weird distorted image
 [15:19:57]  <Quibus> I have no idea what's wrong there
 [15:21:25]  <z3ro_^ you should be able to get 3d with the radeon driver.
 [15:21:35]  <z3ro_> r5xx is supported.
 [15:21:37]  <Quibus> OK!
 [15:21:39]  <Quibus> I'll try that
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[15:28:44]  <Quibus> cu later and thanks!
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[15:48:06]  <rvel> z3ro_, I tried, but no 3d with the radeon driver... at least, no direct rendering and no output with LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose
 [15:49:25]  <rvel> drmOpenDevice failed for all /dev/dri nodes
 [15:51:04]  <wereHamster> do you have permissions to open /dev/dri
 [15:51:07]  <wereHamster> ?
 [15:51:12]  <rvel> well, it's root?
 [15:51:57]  <rvel> hmm, /dev/dri is empty...
 [15:52:08]  <wereHamster> kernel modules loaded?
 [15:52:51]  <rvel> which one should I load? (And why wasn't it auto loaded?)
 [15:53:23]  <wereHamster> no idea, sorry
 [15:53:35]  <wereHamster> which distro are you running?
 [15:53:54]  <rvel> Ubuntu hardy
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[15:54:36]  <wereHamster> look into /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/drivers/char/drm and see which kernel modules are available
 [15:55:04]  <rvel> radeon is there
 [15:55:18]  <wereHamster> try 'insmod radeon'
 [15:55:34]  <rvel> I modprobed it, and it worked, but didn't give me the dri device noces
 [15:55:37]  <rvel> c->d
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[15:58:49]  <wereHamster> look into dmesg output if there were any errors
 [15:59:30]  <wereHamster> or the kernel module might be too old and not recognize your card
 [15:59:40]  <rvel> apparently
 [15:59:44]  <rvel> it's a 2.6.24 module
 [16:01:15]  <stillunknown> Isn't .24 a bit old for r500 dri?
 [16:01:39]  <rvel> I guess so
 [16:02:09]  <rvel> Going to try envyNG a bit
 [16:02:22]  <rvel> thanks so far, I'll be back later, I think
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[16:22:02]  <rvel> OK, back
 [16:22:15]  <rvel> well, the envyNG didn't work, but never mind that
 [16:22:28]  <rvel> so, 2.6.24 is too old for RV535?
 [16:23:56]  <npmccallum> Is there anyway to find out, given a running X server, to find out the drivers being used?
 [16:25:19]  <liquidAcid^ take at look at the Xorg.log
 [16:26:34]  <npmccallum^ which isn't always readable...
 [16:27:08]  <liquidAcid> you mean you don't have root access to the machine?
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[16:27:23]  <npmccallum> correct
 [16:27:51]  <liquidAcid> hmm, then i don't know how to figure that out, sry
 [16:28:06]  <cjb> Hm.  My program calls XOpenDisplay() once every two seconds to poll for X coming up, and it leaks a pair of unix sockets to /tmp/.X0-lock every time it does so.
 [16:28:18]  <cjb> Is there something we're supposed to do after an XOpenDisplay() fails to clean up?
 [16:28:27]  <stillunknown> rvel: don't know
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[16:29:50]  <ajax> cjb: eew, don't do that.
 [16:30:05]  <cjb> Ah.  :)
 [16:30:09]  <wereHamster> npmccallum: the idea is, that a client shouldn't need to know which drivers are being used
 [16:30:35]  <cjb> is there an agreeable way to poll for X being alive?
 [16:30:51]  <ajax> no, but there's a way to be signalled when it comes alive.
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[16:31:01]  <wereHamster> cjb: rip out the X%d-lock code out of the xserver
 [16:31:06]  <npmccallum^ of course, but my application is somewhat unique
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[16:31:43]  <ajax> cjb: see the comment above os/connection.c:InitParentProcess()
 [16:31:50]  <cjb> thanks
 [16:32:11]  <npmccallum> wereHamster: most applications just care about drawing on the screen, my application is trying to profile the hardware
 [16:32:59]  <cjb> hmph, I don't have easy control of the Xorg parent.
 [16:33:25]  <fredrikh> npmccallum: you can find out which GL driver is being used
 [16:33:37]  <wereHamster+ don't you need support for that in the drivers?
 [16:33:53]  <npmccallum^ depends on what you want to profile
 [16:34:05]  <npmccallum> and what you mean by "profile"
 [16:34:15]  <npmccallum> fredrikh: thats smart
 [16:35:04]  <wereHamster^ nvidia provides a special driver that you have to use when profiling. You could do the same, eg. require a modified driver that informs your application about what it supports etc
 [16:35:28]  <npmccallum> fredrikh: but will only work for 3D drivers
 [16:35:36]  <npmccallum> wereHamster: profiling != benchmark
 [16:35:38]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [16:35:43]  <npmccallum> in my case
 [16:36:14]  <npmccallum> I'm trying to determine: 1. what hardware people have in their systems 2. which drivers they are using for that hardware
 [16:36:33]  <wereHamster> 1. you can do via sysfs on linux
 [16:37:03]  <npmccallum^ yes, kernel module support is already programmed
 [16:37:10]  <npmccallum> I need to know xorg drivers
 [16:37:25]  <wereHamster> so you have a separate kernel drivers from the drm drivers?
 [16:39:10]  <ajax> cjb: no?
 [16:39:11]  <npmccallum> I have two tables: 1. what driver the kernel is using for hardware 2. what driver xorg is using for hardware
 [16:40:11]  <wereHamster> if you know the xorg driver you also know the kernel driver (since the xorg driver tells the kernel which driver to load)
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[16:42:13]  <wereHamster> but I don't think there's any way to find out which driver the xserver is using without having enough rights to read the log files (or /proc/??/maps or some other file where the xserver logs the driver)
 [16:44:47]  <npmccallum^ yeah, drivers like vesa or avivo have no kernel module counterpart
 [16:45:06]  <npmccallum> so you could have the radeon kernel driver loaded, but be using vesa or avivo in Xorg
 [16:45:09]  <npmccallum> that is what I need to know
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[16:45:43]  <wereHamster> you need to know that to... warn the user that he's not using the proper drivers?
 [16:45:53]  <cjb> ajax: I guess I don't understand.  I maintain a random daemon (OHM), and I should persuade the initscripts/X packagers to get me a SIGUSR1?
 [16:47:21]  <rvel> see you later
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[16:48:39]  <ajax> cjb: if you're not the thing launching X, why do you need to know when it's up?
 [16:50:27]  <cjb> because OHM is a policy daemon, like gnome-power-manager
 [16:50:44]  <cjb> or any of the other modern apps that run outside of X (and start before it) but need to talk to it.
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[16:51:08]  <mkd> hello
 [16:51:22]  <ajax> that sounds more a case for "X needs to respond to dbus too"
 [16:51:28]  <mkd> I'm trying to get the Intel X4500 working on Linux 2.6.27, but it seems impossible
 [16:51:46]  <ajax> but, doing that gets you rapidly into the problem of who owns the right to command the X server to do things on dbus.
 [16:51:51]  <mkd> I know it should work, but the Xorg.0.log says this: "intel(0): Output LVDS has no monitor section"
 [16:52:06]  <mkd> the Xorg are running, but the screen is blank (backlit though)
 [16:52:09]  <cjb> hm.  yeah.  but that doesn't help me fix my "we leak a unix domain socket a second and eventually run out of FDs" blocker :)
 [16:52:11]  <ajax> it's clearly not the user's session, since if it _was_, you'd just be doing it in the session anyway.
 [16:52:39]  <cjb> (at least, we do while X is down)
 [16:52:54]  <ajax> heh, fair enough.  that sounds like it's just a bug in xtrans not cleaning up on connection failure.
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[16:57:49]  <mkd> anybody knows about LVDS on Xorg?
 [16:58:12]  <mjg59> What about it?
 [16:58:51]  <mkd> I get a blank screen, and the message is that Output LVDS has no monitor section
 [16:59:04]  <mkd> I don't know what to put on the xorg.conf, I have been trying for 2 weeks already
 [16:59:19]  <mjg59> Which version of Xorg?
 [16:59:29]  <mkd> I have the option Option "Monitor-LVDS" "LVDS monitor" in the Monitor section, but it doesn't help
 [16:59:32]  <mkd> Xorg 7.3
 [16:59:45]  <mkd> xserver-1.4.2
 [16:59:59]  <mjg59> You shouldn't need an xorg.conf at all
 [17:00:12]  <mjg59> If you get a blank screen without one, then it seems unlikely that that's the problem
 [17:01:15]  <mkd> I get the blank screen without xorg.conf
 [17:01:16]  <mkd> :(
 [17:02:16]  <mkd> actually
 [17:02:27]  <mkd> I get a screen, but it uses fbdev, instead of the intel driver
 [17:04:44]  <mkd> I sent a bug report about 2 weeks ago and nobody seems to know anything about the X4500 with LVDS laptop monitors
 [17:05:05]  <mkd> I read that some other people is having a similar problem in ubuntu, and I suspect is something with the driver
 [17:05:11]  <mkd> and so the xorg.conf has to be tunned manually
 [17:05:49]  <mjg59> Oh, it's an X4500? I've no idea when the support was added to the driver
 [17:06:21]  <tjaalton> mkd: it should work, try for instance 8.10alpha5 livecd, it has -intel 2.4.2
 [17:06:59]  <mkd> yes, I just tried intrepid 8.10-alpha5
 [17:07:04]  <mkd> and I get a blank screen
 [17:07:09]  <tjaalton> ok then ;)
 [17:07:16]  <mkd> mjg59: it is supposed to be in 2.4.0
 [17:07:31]  <mkd> but I get the message "Output LVDS has no monitor section"
 [17:07:39]  <cjb> bad CosmicPenguin, broke the geode build
 [17:07:43]  <mkd> and I don't know if that has to do anything with getting a blank screen
 [17:07:47]  <tjaalton^ do you have the full log from the live-session?
 [17:07:51]  <cjb> http://tinderbox.x.org/builds/2008-09-08-0019/logs/xf86-video-geode/#build
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[17:08:27]  <mkd> tjaalton: yes
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[17:09:07]  <cjb> oh.  it doesn't have any new commits.
 [17:09:13]  <mjg59> mkd: That message is normal. It just means you have no static configuration.
 [17:09:39]  <tjaalton+ if you have an account on launchpad, please file a bug and attach that. otherwise put it in a pastebin somewhere and I could have a look
 [17:10:25]  <cjb> whot: ping
 [17:10:29]  <mkd> ok, I'll send another bug report to Ubuntu (I already sent one to freedesktop.org)
 [17:10:35]  <mjg59> cjb: He just went to bed
 [17:10:40]  <cjb> d'oh
 [17:11:08]  <tjaalton> mkd: add the link to the upstream bug as well
 [17:11:09]  <cjb> I think he broke pScreen->SetCursorPosition() again
 [17:11:40]  <CosmicPenguin> I didn't touch the build
 [17:11:52]  <mkd> the funny thing is that X are running
 [17:11:54]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: yeah, it's not you.
 [17:12:00]  <mkd> I can glxgears > textfile
 [17:12:05]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: we actually had exactly this breakage a few months ago
 [17:12:06]  <mkd> and I'll see the output on a textfile in the console
 [17:12:11]  <CosmicPenguin> cjb: what is it?
 [17:12:12]  <mkd> but the monitor is blank and doesn't show the X
 [17:12:13]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=xorg&a=2008-05&t=7486008
 [17:12:46]  <CosmicPenguin> oh, huh - I guess I ran out of good will
 [17:13:36]  <tjaalton> mkd: sounds like it needs a quirk in the driver. add the output of lspci -vvnn to the bug
 [17:14:07]  <mkd> ok, by the way (and please forgive my ignorance), what is a quirk?
 [17:14:17]  <CosmicPenguin> cjb: hmm - we have an ifdef in place for that
 [17:14:42]  <tjaalton> mkd: it's using the wrong output
 [17:14:50]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: sounds like it just started returning TRUE, or whatever
 [17:15:04]  <CosmicPenguin> did ABI_XINPUT_VERSION jump?
 [17:15:19]  <mkd> tjaalton: ok, but the quirk is a fix to default the output to the LVDS?
 [17:15:30]  <tjaalton^ yes
 [17:15:51]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: yup!
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[17:15:57]  <CosmicPenguin> cjb: that be it
 [17:15:58]  <cjb^ http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=079625570d51e41569b73b2fd9237eb8f967f408
 [17:16:06]  <mkd> tjaalton: ok, thank you very much
 [17:16:21]  <mkd> I hope they can add the quirk asap, since I'm stuck to fbdev
 [17:16:38]  <mkd> I guess the problem is with the laptop's monitor, and not with the X4500
 [17:16:48]  <tjaalton^ on ubuntu? that sounds strange, falling back to fbdev..
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[17:21:07]  <CosmicPenguin> cjb: fix pushed, i hope
 [17:21:16]  <cjb> oh, cool
 [17:21:39]  <mkd> tjaalton: on ubuntu falls back to vesa
 [17:21:56]  <mkd> yes, it is strange
 [17:22:23]  <tjaalton^ yep, that sounds normal :)
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[17:25:51]  <mkd> tjaalton: ok, I attached the lspci -vvmm
 [17:25:59]  <mkd> I hope they can work on it
 [17:26:20]  <mkd> I offered myself as a tester with the X4500, but they didn't tell me anything, I guess they don't need my help
 [17:27:31]  <CosmicPenguin> cjb: crap - had 025 already been running for a while, or did my fix not help?
 [17:27:40]  <mkd> ok, thanks for everything
 [17:27:43]  <mkd> and good night :)
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[17:31:49]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: it has timestamps; looks like it hit geode 25 mins ago
 [17:31:52]  <cjb> so you're probably good
 [17:32:27]  <CosmicPenguin> it built on hardy, so what could go wrong?
 [17:32:38]  <CosmicPenguin> The whole world uses hardy right? :)
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[17:32:57]  <ajax> yeah, we're rebasing for rhel6.
 [17:33:05]  <cjb> figures.
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[17:33:38]  <tjaalton> :)
 [17:33:38]  <ajax> hint for the humor-impaired: no.
 [17:33:41]  <cjb> I just switched from hardy to rawhide, actually.  No more "human theme" for me.
 [17:34:28]  <CosmicPenguin> I always thought you were inhuman
 [17:36:45]  <jcristau> hardy should rebase on lenny
 [17:38:41]  <tjaalton^ parts of X maybe ;)
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[20:49:01]  <aaronp> ajax: I forgot that the xinput ABI version was only 2.1 in server-1.5-branch, so a bump to 4.0 is unnecessary.  Should I roll it back?
 [20:49:21]  <aaronp> ajax/daniels/whot, I guess.
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[20:53:35]  <aaronp> Also, why is xf86-video-geode reported as xf86-video-amd on xorg-commit@?
 [20:56:04]  <jcristau> probably because /git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-geode.git/hooks/update hasn't been updated when the repo was moved :)
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[21:37:20]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: geode's passing tinderbox again now
 [21:41:20]  <ajax> aaronp: eh.  integers are cheap.
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[22:05:44]  <aaronp> Ah, mach64.
 [22:06:40]  <mjg59> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH mach64 (etc)
 [22:08:24]  <aaronp> Yeah, pretty much.  Somebody more familiar with that driver could probably get rid of ATIXVPreInit and its call to xf86XVRegisterGenericAdaptorDriver entirely.
 [22:09:05]  <reduz> I got interationalized input almost going
 [22:09:22]  <reduz> you know what, x-developers, i think X11 api is kind of bugged/broken in that aspect
 [22:09:38]  <mjg59> X's input model is broken?
 [22:09:56]  <mjg59> I think it'd actually be difficult to find anyone to disagree with that :p
 [22:10:25]  <mjg59> But it'd be interesting to know which specific issues you had
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[22:11:50]  <reduz> I have no idea why XKeycodeToKeysym or XLookupKeysym don't return internationalized characters. For that I have to use XLookupString which does
 [22:12:10]  <reduz> and forces me to generate a string every time i press a key
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[22:12:16]  <ajax> it's tough to test internationalized input since those border guards get all huffy about people just hanging out with a laptop
 [22:12:28]  <reduz> heh
 [22:13:13]  <reduz> also, It's even stranger that XIM works only with internationalized but not keysyms, and X itself the opposite
 [22:13:31]  <mjg59> The keysym functions can only return things that are present in your keymap
 [22:13:45]  <mjg59> And the keymap is limited to 248 characters
 [22:14:09]  <reduz> I know, however I don't see why some functions work and some don't
 [22:14:14]  <reduz> when they should all work
 [22:14:32]  <jg^ of course X's input model is broken.  You don't think anyone has learned anything since 1987?
 [22:14:47]  <reduz> I mean, XLookupString and XLookupKeysym should do the same, but only the first works
 [22:15:00]  <mjg59> No, XLookupString returns something that's client-specific
 [22:15:13]  <mjg59> XLookupKeysym uses the server keymap
 [22:15:15]  <mjg59> (IIRC)
 [22:15:22]  <jg> reduz: heh.  All this predates unicode....  Were we to do it again, we'd do it *all* different.
 [22:16:01]  <mjg59> Trying to do non-trivial input entirely in the context of keycodes and keysyms isn't really possible with the existing model, which sucks astonishingly
 [22:16:26]  <reduz^ ah :( i had no idea.. no wonder it didn't work
 [22:16:30]  <jg> mjg59: heh.  I used to be worse, in X10.
 [22:17:07]  <jg> at least we made keysyms 32 bits.
 [22:17:17]  <jg> We didn't make the unicode consortium's first mistake.
 [22:17:26]  <reduz> hehe
 [22:17:31]  <mjg59> jg: Being able to send keysyms to clients would have made everything much easier
 [22:17:42]  <reduz> Maybe it's a good chance to think about X12 then :P i don't see anyone using X11 directly anyway except toolkits
 [22:17:57]  <reduz> I'm receiving unicode keysyms from XIM though
 [22:18:00]  <jg> mjg59: as I said, I'd do it all differently if I had a chance....
 [22:18:01]  <reduz> that seems to work great
 [22:18:13]  <mjg59^ There's a surprising body of legacy code
 [22:18:21]  <jg+ breaking old binaries isn't friendly.
 [22:18:31]  <jg> there is *alot* of code out there.
 [22:18:37]  <jg> And the network effect is strong.
 [22:18:43]  <jg> it's also a wire protocol...
 [22:19:04]  <mjg59> Extending the protocol so sanity-aware toolkits and apps could work without fail would certainly be an option
 [22:19:25]  <reduz> is breaking old binaries so bad? most i know already stopped working. I can see providing an X11+Extensions compatibility layer should be enough and not that difficult, since none of the extensions seems very complex
 [22:19:47]  <jg^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode#History_of_Unicode shows unicode was a gleam in Becker's eyes about the time we finished the X11 design.
 [22:20:08]  <jg> heh.  They haven't broken, across the net.
 [22:20:23]  <jg> in an enterprise network, you run old boxes forever, as you can't upgrade them.
 [22:21:32]  <reduz> I know but.. is it really so difficult to make a compatibility layer? I mean api/protocol wise
 [22:21:36]  <jg^ I hoped to prove this a few months ago, but the friend I have who used to have a Microvax in his basement had given them to someone else in the computer history area.
 [22:21:43]  <jg> feel free.
 [22:21:53]  <jg> it's harder than you think.
 [22:22:13]  <reduz> ah :( was just asking
 [22:22:16]  <jg^ some protocol mistakes are easy to fix, and some much harder.
 [22:22:46]  <jg> so, for example, the atom system, very, very flexible and much more heavily used than we ever thought it would be, suffers from tons of round trips.
 [22:23:00]  <jg> Would that we'd made them simple strings or crypto hashes.
 [22:23:02]  <jg> sigh....
 [22:23:42]  <jg> the problem with successful systems is you can't fix them...
 [22:23:54]  <jg> Be glad we did get rid of X10 in time (barely).
 [22:24:06]  <reduz> i never thought about it that way, but makes sense
 [22:24:18]  <jg> success disasters are a PITA.
 [22:24:42]  <jg> I'd give alot for an extra 12 months somehow inserted in 1987 somehow.
 [22:24:42]  <ajax> just look at unix
 [22:24:53]  <reduz> Trolltech did a great job with Qt4 though.. but i guess they are a company
 [22:25:12]  <jg^ they don't have the network effect to deal with.
 [22:26:43]  <reduz> But i guess i get the point.. I got technology going for a few products i shipped recently (heavy 3D engines) and when i want to do some core design changes, i find myself having to mantain them due to being projects of online nature.. it's really annoying
 [22:28:01]  <reduz> jg, I still think the work KP did on his extensions is great, though. XRender and Xft have been very pleasant to work with
 [22:28:18]  <jg> I certainly hope we can learn from experience ;-).
 [22:28:43]  <reduz> I must be really stupid to be attempting a toolkit half seriously / half hobby, but i'm honestly having a lot of fun programming for X11
 [22:28:46]  <jg> keithp did a number of less smart things earlier, so he gets to atone for his sins as I do.
 [22:29:10]  <jg> so long as we don't repeat mistakes ;-).
 [22:29:44]  <jg> reduz: glad to hear your having fun with it.
 [22:30:17]  <jg> that's half the battle..
 [22:30:20]  <reduz> heh, ok..  well, you guys have been mantaining a project for so long.. even though it has shortcomings, i really have to admint i haven't seen anything stand so well the test of time (maybe besides unix)
 [22:30:46]  <jg> yeah, some parts of X remind me of UNIX ioctl's...
 [22:31:39]  <jg> plan 9 did so many things better; Linux has only picked up some of those good ideas.
 [22:32:03]  <reduz> ahh yeah, wish plan9 had been more successful
 [22:32:25]  <reduz> But in comparison, I mean, even Windows (win16/32) which is much younger has far more design problems in all aspects than unix/X11
 [22:32:38]  <jg> thank you....
 [22:32:58]  <jg> though windows isn't much younger.
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[22:33:46]  <reduz> really? I remember the win32 api being available for windows 3 in the early 90s, then it somewhat became standarized in 95
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[22:35:41]  <jg> yeah, and then there was win16 before that.
 [22:35:48]  <jg> Windows 1, 2, and 3.
 [22:36:09]  <jg> 3.1 was the first reasonably successful version of windoze.
 [22:36:16]  <reduz> and in comparison, i think windows has just _horrible_ half done unicode support , horrible system apis, horrible timer apis, unmentionable event/callbacks systems, etc
 [22:38:09]  <reduz> I mean, here we just have X11 -> Maybe Extensions -> toolkit . On the other side there's like.. Win32 -> OLE/COM -> MFC -> win.forms -> C# .. or WIN32 -> OLE/COM -> DirectX -> Direct3D -> WPF
 [22:38:09]  <jg^ ah, but remember some of our bad ideas: e.g. PEX, LBX, XIE....
 [22:38:22]  <jg> WE've just been able to chuck them overboard, thankfully.
 [22:38:50]  <jg> in any case, to bed with me....
 [22:39:01]  <reduz> was XIE wthat bad?
[22:39:07]  <reduz> seemed like a great idea at the time
 [22:39:10]  <reduz> oh.. good night!
[22:39:11]  <jg> yup.....
 [22:39:15]  <jg> that bad.
 [22:39:18]  <jg> flawed premise.
 [22:39:38]  * jg is away: Away
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[22:40:56]  <antrik> reduz: win32 was originally created for Windows NT, which was first released in 1993 IIRC
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[22:52:41]  <reduz> antrik, oh, i didn't know that. I just remember getting win32 for windows 3.1 so i could use internet apps
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[01:56:18]  <reduz> whee, finally, got x input to behave properly in my toolkit
 [02:02:50]  <spstarr> Yet another Toolkit?
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[02:07:06]  <reduz> yeah
 [02:07:17]  <reduz> this is endless fun
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[02:20:33]  <reduz> you know what
 [02:20:42]  <reduz> i have no idea how to detect an echo character when you keep a key pressed
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[02:22:15]  <whot> cjb: pong
 [02:24:47]  <reduz> oh i see, to detect keyrepeat, i have to look for combinations of KeyPress/KeyRelease with the same timestamp
 [02:30:06]  <reduz> then it means i shouldn't process every event separatedly but check events together
 [02:30:10]  <reduz> ah well
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[02:32:49]  <reduz> guess i can figure out how to do that tomorrow
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[02:36:40]  <daniels> reduz: we are thinking about X12, but existing toolkits have actually got input to work shockingly well.  it's not really fundamentally broken, just really fucking difficult to do correctly.  this is what we were saying before ...
 [02:37:44]  <daniels> re x12, i'm sure it'll be bumped when the #1 thing holding x.org back from progressing further is the limitations in the wire protocol documented at http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12.  as that page says, that day is probably not soon, but also not never.
 [02:38:21]  <whot^ keysyms in key events may not be bad. We have it in the server after all?
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[02:39:36]  <tjaalton> any idea why some of the hotkeys on my lenovo X61 stop working when using evdev?
 [02:39:39]  <daniels> whot: yeah, our future key event needs a binary flag to tell you whether the detail is a keycode or keysym.
 [02:39:56]  <daniels> tjaalton: my money's on the keycode being below 255 when using AT, but above 255 when using evdev.
 [02:39:56]  <whot^ why not both?
 [02:41:24]  <reduz> daniels, this looks great
 [02:41:30]  <daniels> whot: well, in that case the flag is implicit based on the presence of one _or_ the other.  if we're sending both, then everyone doing input methods will hate you (being that you can't always infer keysym from keycode + server-visible state alone; cf. phonetic composition).
 [02:42:03]  <tjaalton^ ok, what was the command that shows the kernel input events?
 [02:42:12]  <daniels^ sudo modprobe evbug
 [02:42:47]  <reduz^ i think i somehow got XIM to work ok now.. i can get all keysyms/unicodes correctly, although i had to do some work for this (specially converting from keysym->unicode)
 [02:43:03]  <tjaalton> daniels: cool, thanks
 [02:43:23]  <daniels> whot: but yeah, definitely need keysym events for pretty much everything xtest is currently used for.  i mean, instead of faking it and hoping you don't race with state changes, might as well just cut out an opportunity for failure and let it DWYM.  not to mention that you don't have to mangle unused keys in the map anymore, or have every single key you'd ever want to see an event for in the keymap.
 [02:43:31]  <daniels> reduz: cool.
 [02:43:34]  <daniels> tjaalton: np
 [02:43:51]  <reduz> just made a hashtable linking keysyms -> unicode . I may do a large table and binary search though
 [02:44:36]  <reduz> i just seem to have understimated figuring out when i got an echo character
 [02:44:56]  <reduz> er, echo keypress/release i mean
 [02:47:33]  <daniels> echo?
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[02:51:21]  <daniels> whot: oh, and it gets trickier as well as sometimes you want a single key to produce multiple keysyms. :)
 [02:51:48]  <daniels> apparently for, e.g., arabic, decomposed are preferred (i.e. pre-composed variants are obsoleted and everyone hates them).
 [02:52:22]  <daniels> at the moment, this is apparently faked by producing the precomposed sequence in the server, and then having a precomposed -> decomposed mapping in Xlib/GTK compose tables, as they can produce arbitrary strings.
 [02:54:18]  <whot> damnit. why can't life be simple
 [02:58:16]  <daniels> because you touch yourself at night
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[02:59:25]  <tjaalton> daniels: hum, evbug doesn't seem to work when using evdev in X?
 [02:59:47]  <daniels^ christ, seriously?
 [02:59:57]  <daniels> i guess the grabs take it away from evbug.  awesome.
 [03:00:00]  <tjaalton^ so it seems
 [03:00:10]  <whot^ evtest should work. just remove the code that tries to grab it (from evtest)
 [03:01:06]  <tjaalton^ ok, I'll try
 [03:01:15]  <whot^ cacnel that. it doesn't
 [03:01:22]  <whot> only lists the device capabilities, not the events
 [03:02:23]  <daniels> yeah, evbug is a kernel module.
 [03:03:15]  <tjaalton> where can is see who uses /d/i/eventX ?
 [03:06:08]  <daniels> lsof
 [03:06:20]  <tjaalton> yeah, and /proc/bus/input/devices
 [03:06:40]  <daniels> whot: ('because you touch yourself at night' is a family guy reference, fwiw, not just something weird.)
 [03:06:48]  <daniels> tjaalton: right
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[03:08:30]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:10:37]  <whot> daniels: right. I thought it was just standard humour :)
 [03:11:27]  <daniels^ i'm somewhat concerned that you basically considered that passe .  surely i'm not usually that bad?
 [03:11:32]  <daniels> (you don't have to answer that.)
 [03:11:42]  <whot> heh
 [03:13:44]  <tjaalton> hmm, the "lock screen" hotkey ID is named "Coffee" :)
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[03:14:27]  <daniels> cute
 [03:16:07]  <dagb> ping 148.122.4.249
 [03:16:17]  <dagb> #error
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[03:32:37]  <tjaalton> daniels: ok the reason why the hotkeys don't work is that evdev grabs the device from thinkpad_acpi
 [03:33:11]  <tjaalton> so most of the events are never passed on to gnome-power-manager
 [03:33:25]  <tjaalton> a similar problem is with the fingerprint reader
 [03:33:54]  <daniels> ah, yarr.
 [03:34:22]  <daniels> so hal opens the thinkpad-keys device directly, or there's some kind of insane in-kernel grab, or?
 [03:34:50]  <tjaalton> it's listed in hal yes.. is it possible to quirk by not setting the driver?
 [03:34:53]  <soren> hal notices the acpi events, I suppose.
 [03:36:25]  <daniels> tjaalton: sure
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[03:36:38]  <tjaalton> daniels: ok I'll try that
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[03:37:25]  <daniels> it seems a bit weird that some events get stolen by hal and later sent through guesswork to what is probably the active session, rather than following the usual pipeline, though ...
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[03:37:43]  <tjaalton> oh, RF kill switch seems to work though, but the keycode for that is 385, the rest is <255
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[03:39:42]  <daniels> i'm surprised that isn't grabbed by the rfkill thingy.
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[03:43:00]  <tjaalton> hmm, evtest shows the correct event codes for the device..
 [03:44:34]  <tjaalton> so even though this could be worked around by not using evdev for the device, it's probably not the right way
 [03:44:42]  <tjaalton> to fix it
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[03:49:26]  <daniels> tjaalton: right, so it should probably go kernel -> x -> gpm -> hal, rather than kernel -> hal -> gpm -> hal.
 [03:51:54]  <tjaalton^ yeah
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[05:19:58]  <ZeroIdent> What up people?
 [05:20:54]  <ZeroIdent> Can anyone pm me an url/ man page/ support page loc or just help me with an X11 prob with my monitor-
 [05:21:55]  <ZeroIdent> I am trying to use the BT3 live cd and when it loads-right after you choose which desktop to go into I get the old "Frequency out of range error
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[05:22:44]  <ZeroIdent> Which I know how to fix in ubuntu but that solution doesn't work with Bt3 'cos it isn't denian nased
 [05:23:02]  <ZeroIdent> I have googled and googled with no success
 [05:25:26]  <ZeroIdent> The ubuntu solution is to get out of the blank screen into a command prompt by hitting alt+shift+f1, logging in as root, and using dpkg rec0nfigure xserver.xorg manually to meet the refresh rates of your particular brand!
 [05:25:39]  <wereHamster> try ctrl-alt-f1
 [05:25:57]  <ZeroIdent> I have my first pen-testing contract and really need my slax
 [05:26:17]  <ZeroIdent> I know how to get a command prompt
 [05:26:51]  <wereHamster> then manually edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
 [05:27:12]  <ZeroIdent> What I need to know is how to reconf the X11 config file in a non-debian based distro
 [05:27:22]  <jcristau> vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf
 [05:28:09]  <ZeroIdent> Is /etc/X11/xorg.conf where the refresh rates would be located and controlled and also I believe in non debian's there is one more file to edit as well
 [05:28:41]  <wereHamster> no, xorg.conf is usually the only config file for the xserver
 [05:28:45]  <ZeroIdent+ nano /etc/X11/Xorg.conf
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[05:29:25]  <ZeroIdent> Okay-gotchya so just re-edit the hor/vert refresh rates to fit my spec and go?
 [05:29:41]  <wereHamster> should work, yes
 [05:30:41]  <marcheu> heh, we even get windows users here now
 [05:30:42]  <ZeroIdent> One last question-is there a way to figure out my monitor's default refresh frequencies without a manual?  It's a 10+ year old compaq crt (But the computer is a rocket)
 [05:30:44]  <ZeroIdent> ?
 [05:31:09]  <ZeroIdent> It isn't anywhere on the back label of the monitor
 [05:31:45]  <wereHamster> the interwebs, google your monitor
 [05:31:48]  <marcheu> end user questions should go to #xorg
 [05:33:54]  <ZeroIdent> Did that and apparently this piece is so old compaq doesn't have a record of making this particular one
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[05:37:04]  <ZeroIdent> nevermind I found it
 [05:39:26]  <ZeroIdent> seems like I did do the nano /etc/X11/Xorg.conf last night and the conf-file was confusing me I am a beginning programmer (C, Perl, and Java) but new to Linux so antone tell me what exactly to look for in the config file and what to enter my refresh rates are as follows
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[05:40:11]  <jcristau> ask in #xorg, please
 [05:40:36]  <ZeroIdent> Oh sorry 
[05:43:30]  <ZeroIdent> I don't mean to be rude jcristau-with all due respect the room isn't very busy at the moment and I after a night of frustration was finally getting the help that I needed...any reason to make me leave?  Never mind not my place-I respect that...PEACE!
 [05:49:24]  <daniels> even though both rooms may appear dead, this is one of the primary forms of developer communication, so many people leave irc on overnight and catch up when they're done.  if it's filled with non-development chatter, they might just skin over or skip it altogether, and miss useful information/talk/etc.
 [05:52:48]  <ZeroIdent> Right on bro-I can respect that-I am silencing my fat mouth now BUT would one of you who knows what they are doing meet me in #xorg for just a minute? 
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[07:43:58]  <johnflux> regarding the email on the list 'Ubuntu 8.04.1 rotate screen 90 degrees '   the author complains it runs really slow if it rotates the screen 90 degrees
 [07:44:09]  <johnflux> would this be done as a rotated xrender blit?
 [07:44:17]  <airlied> if they are using eXA
 [07:44:23]  <johnflux> is the problem because rotated blits aren't accelerated?
 [07:44:28]  <airlied> it might be XAA in which case it'll be sw
 [07:44:29]  <johnflux> with his particularly driver
 [07:44:40]  <johnflux> hmm
 [07:44:44]  <mjg59> Reasonably sure (though not certain) that Ubuntu defaults to XAA
 [07:44:44]  <johnflux> particular
 [07:45:14]  <marcheu> mjg59: hehe nice to see that their patch is causing trouble for them, too bad he reports to xorg though
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[07:48:10]  <Q-FUNK> to whom would I send requests for permission to use the X.org logo on product brochures to state that our hardware is supported?
 [07:50:32]  <johnflux^ awesome - what hardware?
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[07:51:55]  <johnflux> from an exa Composite hook, is it possible to get software rendering to do the rotation for example?
 [07:52:34]  <marcheu> I don't really understand that question
 [07:52:37]  <johnflux> so say I'm asked in prepareComposite  to blend two pixmaps, but with a rotation, and I can't do the rotation in hardware
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[07:52:49]  <marcheu> if the exa composite hook has rotation support you get accelerated rotation. it's as simple as that
 [07:53:02]  <marcheu> so you fallback to sw then
 [07:53:05]  <johnflux^ i'm writing the exa composite
[07:53:09]  <johnflux> okay, but how? 
[07:53:15]  <marcheu> return false ?
 [07:53:18]  <johnflux> I want to do the rotation in software, but the blend in hardware
 [07:53:26]  <marcheu> you can't
 [07:53:37]  <johnflux> well, how can this be fixed then? :)
 [07:53:41]  <marcheu> it can't
 [07:53:46]  <marcheu> it's not intereting anyway
 [07:53:57]  <johnflux> why not interesting?  it's a huge problem
 [07:53:58]  <marcheu> if you fallback, the biggest time eater is migrating the pixmaps
 [07:54:19]  <johnflux^ not if the source isn't migrated
 [07:54:36]  <marcheu> how can the source not be migrated ?
 [07:55:04]  <marcheu> usually it's a whole chain of calls leading to composite()
 [07:55:20]  <johnflux> right, but prepareComposite is called before its uploaded to offscreen
 [07:55:22]  <marcheu> you're going to gain very little by doing that
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[07:55:38]  <marcheu> since you have to migrate anyway... as I said you've lost
 [07:55:45]  <johnflux> not at all
 [07:55:53]  <johnflux> say the source pixmap is cpu accessible
 [07:56:00]  <johnflux> and the destination is offscreen
 [07:56:01]  <johnflux> okay?
 [07:56:05]  <marcheu> yeah I get you
 [07:56:08]  <johnflux> now you want to blend and rotate the source
 [07:56:10]  <marcheu> I'm saying that case is mostly irrelevant
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[07:56:26]  <johnflux> the case i'm specifying is irrelevant?
 [07:56:30]  <marcheu> yeah
 [07:56:31]  <johnflux> because it doesn't happen often?
 [07:56:54]  <marcheu> well because you migrate in the middle which is such a big loss that other things don't really matter
 [07:57:20]  <johnflux^ what?  no
 [07:57:37]  <johnflux> ideal situation:   you rotate the source, then migrate, then blend against destination
 [07:57:41]  <johnflux> that is just one migration
 [07:58:01]  <johnflux> current situation:  you rotate the source, then migrate destination pixmap, then blend in software, then migrate back
[07:58:05]  <johnflux> that is two migrations
 [07:58:18]  <Q-FUNK^ http://www.thincan.com
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[07:58:53]  <johnflux> it is a real problem that exa falls back to software too easily
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[07:59:07]  <johnflux> the result is that Qt etc have to reimplement all of the software rendering
 [07:59:20]  <johnflux> and only use the most basic exa calls which are most likely to be accelerated
 [07:59:55]  <johnflux> Q-FUNK: nice
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[08:01:41]  <marcheu> no... usually the source is in vram... so you migrate back & forth
 [08:02:36]  <marcheu> again once you've done a single migration things are slow anyway and I think it doesn't matter
 [08:02:38]  <johnflux^ leaving the result in vram or not?
 [08:02:48]  <marcheu> you'd better implement special cases for 90/180/270 instea
 [08:02:53]  <johnflux^ doing two migrations is slower than doing one migration
 [08:03:06]  <johnflux> obviously
 [08:03:16]  <Q-FUNK^ thanks!
 [08:03:37]  <marcheu> once you stop the command flux, such things matter very little... that's why I think such changes are not really important
 [08:03:55]  <marcheu> and if you're fencing stuff, you wait on a single fence anyway
 [08:04:03]  <johnflux> fencing?
 [08:04:08]  <marcheu> using fences
 [08:04:13]  <johnflux> what's a fence?
 [08:04:42]  <marcheu> like the opengl fence extension basically
 [08:04:53]  <johnflux> what's an open fence?
 [08:04:56]  <johnflux> opengl
 [08:05:34]  <johnflux> "Once the fence is inserted into the command stream, it     can be queried for a given condition - typically, its completion. "
 [08:05:40]  <johnflux> okay, some sort of marker
 [08:06:38]  <johnflux> marcheu: anyway, in my specific case I'm on a UMA system
 [08:06:43]  <fredrikh> how common is it that a driver can accelerate composite but not transformations anyway?
 [08:06:46]  <johnflux> marcheu: so everything is offscreen :)
 [08:06:52]  <johnflux> fredrikh: very?
 [08:07:01]  <johnflux> are there any drivers that do all transformations?
 [08:07:03]  <fredrikh> transforming is done by just changing the vertices
 [08:07:56]  <fredrikh> i know the radeon driver does it, and i'm pretty sure the intel driver does it too
 [08:08:06]  <johnflux^ on both source and mask?
 [08:08:11]  <fredrikh> yeah
 [08:08:19]  <marcheu> works for nouveau as well
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[08:32:17]  <daniels> Q-FUNK: board@foundation.x.org
 [08:36:27]  <Q-FUNK> is xf_board@x.org also valid?
 [08:36:42]  <Q-FUNK> that's what's on the wiki
 [08:38:28]  <daniels> that's an alias to board@foundation.x.org, yes.
 [08:39:17]  <Q-FUNK> ok
 [08:39:27]  <Q-FUNK> then I sent it to the right place.
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[08:40:26]  <daniels> yes, i see it in the mod queue
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[09:42:46]  <johnflux> Option "ExaComposite" "false"  <-  does this option in xorg.conf  disable the exa Composite hooks
 [09:42:59]  <johnflux> but allow the Copy and Solid hooks still?
 [09:43:18]  <MrCooper> right
 [09:43:19]  <jcristau> it's called ExaNoComposite
 [09:43:27]  <jcristau> iirc
 [09:43:37]  <MrCooper> also right :)
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[09:44:42]  <jcristau> so you can have 'Option "NoExaNoComposite" "false"'
 [09:44:47]  <jcristau> ;)
 [09:45:07]  <johnflux> really? :)
 [09:49:25]  <ajax> yes.
 [09:49:35]  <ajax> the parser automatically handles boolean inversion at the start of option names.
 [09:50:25]  <johnflux> fun
 [09:53:45]  <jcristau> yet a few options have a negation in their name :/
 [10:09:14]  <ajax> yeah, we hate those.
 [10:09:24]  <daniels> XaaNoOffscreenPixmaps!
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[10:11:27]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/diff/?h=server-1.5-branch&id=7822a3d05f935cca3bfa47d15d961596652ecfca&id2=d900de5a8f61e1ee000c1a96fa6c6121ac2a92ae
 [10:16:46]  <MrCooper> ugh, xf86IsOptionSet
 [10:19:23]  <daniels> gene was going to fix that one.
 [10:21:33]  <jcristau> i removed the uses of xf86IsOptionSet in xaa and exa a while back
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[11:11:37]  <jcristau> hrm. so with pciaccess, Driver "i810" in xorg.conf -> fail
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[11:19:05]  <jcristau> ajax: any idea how to fix that? problem is the server compares the name in xorg.conf against drvp->driverName, which is "intel"
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[11:19:32]  <ajax> i think we still have a compat patch for that?
 [11:20:58]  <ajax> huh, guess not.
 [11:22:25]  <jcristau> in the non-pciaccess path, I810Probe calls xf86MatchDevice("i810"), but that's not used anymore
 [11:25:06]  <ajax> well the lazy way to do it is in the server
 [11:25:19]  <ajax> add a hack to the top of InitOutput() like what InitInput() does to do s/keyboard/kbd/
 [11:25:45]  <ajax> personally i'd just as soon do sed -i /Driver/s/i810/intel/ xorg.conf in %post though
 [11:26:58]  <jcristau> i guess i can do something like that. thanks
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[11:28:48]  <jcristau> ajax: btw are you not using xlib/xcb, or was the abstract socket stuff just unused?
 [11:29:01]  <ajax> it worked at one point?
 [11:29:07]  <ajax> i admit to not checking very often
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[11:37:04]  <jcristau> iirc i was using it at some point, and then i switched to xcb. and didn't notice until now that nothing used the abstract namespace anymore..
 [11:40:56]  <jcristau> oh. you had a libxcb patch for that already...
 [11:41:06]  * jcristau bangs head against wall
 [11:41:52]  <ajax> i did?  whoa.
 [11:42:13]  <jcristau> yeah http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/libxcb/libxcb-1.1-abstract-socket.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup
 [11:42:17]  <ajax> i need some practice at this whole "cleaning up after myself" thing, it seems.
 [11:43:02]  <jcristau> i need some practice at this whole "if you think of something, ajax has probably done it already" thing
 [11:44:04]  <ajax> aughgaughglagh
 [11:44:13]  <ajax> the cea spec is completely wretched
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[11:45:18]  <ajax> oh hey have some "data blocks".  no, we won't tell you how many there are, hope you don't want to allocate storage up front or anything.
 [11:45:45]  <ajax> i assume displayid will be just as bad, except i can't know because i don't have the ftp login to the vesa specs...
 [11:45:52]  <marcheu> what's cea ?
 [11:46:16]  <ajax> "consumer electronics association".  but in this context, CEA-EXT is the name of an EDID extension block that's mandatory for HDMI devices
 [11:46:23]  <marcheu> ah ok, thanks
 [11:46:42]  <ajax> gives you additional info about stuff like more video modes, color formats, speaker allocation, blah blah
 [11:46:59]  <marcheu> yeah I can imagine some super-EDID
 [11:47:26]  <marcheu> hmm does it say "this panel is 18 bit" ?
 [11:49:29]  <ajax> maybe?  there's a base set of info and then a bunch of optional variable-length fields.  one of which might tell you if you're lucky.
 [11:50:29]  <CosmicPenguin> super-EDID = worst super hero evah
 [11:50:30]  <ajax> there are _two_ escape hatches for "vendor-defined fields"
 [11:50:36]  <ajax> two.
 [11:50:48]  <tjaalton> how do I verify the xkb rules I'm using?
 [11:52:08]  <ajax> DI-EXT, which is this other EDID extension, does let the display specify its bitness
 [11:52:23]  <ajax> except i've only ever seen two monitors implement it
 [11:52:41]  <ajax> and both of them just degrade into garbage by the end
 [11:52:46]  <ajax> thanks apple!  you fucks.
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[11:53:33]  <marcheu> oh I can sees how this is not easing our lives
 [11:54:22]  <ajax> tjaalton: what do you mean by verify?  just get the current map?
 [11:55:00]  <tjaalton^ well, I'm trying to verify that I'm using evdev rules.. but I guess input.xkb.rules is enough
 [11:55:33]  <ajax> 'xprop -root | grep _XKB' seems to give me something kinda useful
 [11:55:42]  <ajax> i don't know if that's server-provided or a gnomeism though
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[11:56:50]  <tjaalton> oh well, everything still works, in ways that didn't when the model used to be forced as evdev
 [11:57:00]  <tjaalton> so I guess I'm a happy man now :)
 [11:58:26]  <stillunknown> ajax: i get _XKB_RULES_NAMES(STRING) = "base", "pc105", "us", "", ""
 [11:58:37]  <ajax> okay.
 [11:59:05]  <jcristau> there's a XkbWriteRulesProp in xkb/xkbInit.c, so i guess server-provided
 [11:59:17]  <tjaalton> and I get evdev instead of base, so I'd say it works
 [11:59:21]  <tjaalton> whee
 [12:02:07]  <johnflux> keithp: woah, unicode emails :)
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[12:26:15]  <reduz-wrk> Question: Can I use XPending > 0 and XPeekEvent to check out if the next event is something i care for?
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[12:50:27]  <reduz-wrk> ok just did that
 [12:50:30]  <reduz-wrk> seems to work
[12:57:05]  <keithp> johnflux: it's 2008; get used to it.
 [12:58:14]  <johnflux^ i just thought it was awesome :)
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[13:09:46]  <whot> the rules prop is created by the server, but from then on in client control
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[13:10:33]  <whot> the gnome keyboard applet only cares about the prop for example, you can fool it by changing the keyboard map without changing the prop
 [13:12:15]  <wereHamster> is bugzilla.fd.o down for anyone else?
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[13:20:34]  <whot> wereHamster: looks like it
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[15:56:22]  <geaaru> hi, i'm trying to do a checkout of libxtrans library from git repository but git leave stopped on
[15:56:37]  <geaaru> Initialized empty Git repository in /home/geaaru/Desktop/libxtrans/.git/
 [15:56:48]  <geaaru> are there problem with git repository?
 [15:56:52]  <geaaru> thanks in advance
 [15:57:36]  <jcristau> there are problem with annarchy, aka anongit.fd.o
 [15:58:03]  <geaaru> ah ok, thanks for reply
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[16:05:24]  <ajax> okay, second opinion here.
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[16:05:44]  <ajax> eedid lets you have up to like 256 blocks
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[16:06:11]  <ajax> right now we do this unpacking dance where we parse out the raw block into something sensible
 [16:06:25]  <ajax> but all the world assumes you can just delete that thing with xfree()
 [16:07:04]  <ajax> i could just add an array to the end of like 255 slots, but that'd be huge and likely to break on whatever the next extension to come out
 [16:07:33]  <ajax> alternatively i can fix all the callers to call a real dtor and manually free all the dependent structures
 [16:07:47]  <ajax> they both kind of suck.  which one sucks less?
 [16:09:56]  <daniels> b)
 [16:10:46]  <daniels> custom [cd]tor ftw.  never let callers allocate something you care about, cf. xEvent.
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[16:34:12]  <jg> ping whot
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[17:07:00]  <jak> airlied, ping
 [17:07:19]  <airlied^ pong
 [17:07:48]  <jak^ are you the author who reimplemnt zaphod in ati driver?
 [17:08:08]  <jak> what is the current status? I wonder
 [17:08:27]  <airlied^ it should work I don't test it that often though.
 [17:08:33]  <airlied> normally the bugs are in the X server.
 [17:08:55]  <jak> xrandr 1.2 required for it?
 [17:09:02]  <airlied> nope...
 [17:09:11]  <jak> hmm.
 [17:09:25]  <airlied> if it crashes in the randr code its a bug in the server.
 [17:09:59]  <jak> I disabled randr in the source, and setup zaphod with radeon 7000, but only one head is working
 [17:10:31]  <airlied> how did you disable randr?
 [17:11:12]  <jak> by setting _X_EXPORT Bool noRenderExtension = FALSE;
 [17:11:23]  <airlied> thats render.
 [17:11:25]  <jak> no TRUE
 [17:11:29]  <jak> sorry
 [17:11:31]  <daniels> (also, why?)
 [17:11:35]  <jak> _X_EXPORT Bool noRRExtension = TRUE;
 [17:11:54]  <marcheu> daniels: for the same reason people keep asking user questions on xorg-devel...
 [17:11:59]  <airlied> don't bother doing that.
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[17:12:59]  <jak> airlied, if I set noRRExtension to TRUE, it will affect ati's zaphod functionality?
 [17:13:01]  <jcristau> marcheu: let me guess. because they can?
 [17:13:20]  <daniels+ better than #kde-devel, which was 'hi, i'd like to ask the developers how to change my background'.  we're shit at documentation, and we're reaping the rewards.
 [17:13:34]  <airlied^ on KDE you have to write a plugin.
 [17:13:36]  <marcheu+ and I care because ?
 [17:13:39]  <daniels> jak: yeah, it just seems overly pointless.
 [17:13:45]  <airlied+ don't touch randr..
 [17:14:05]  <daniels> marcheu: because you now have an incentive to fix our documentation so that we don't get user questions on irc. :) instead, it's actually written down somewhere (novel!).
 [17:14:16]  <daniels> though i guess noveau does reasonably well at docs.
 [17:14:22]  <marcheu^ that or ignore that channel...
 [17:14:32]  <marcheu> which is what we get over time
 [17:14:33]  <jak> But,   option "RANDR" "false" doesn't work in the xorg.conf
 [17:14:39]  <airlied> don't touch randr.
 [17:14:49]  <airlied> leave randr the fuck alone, step away from the randr
 [17:14:52]  <daniels> marcheu: of course, but i'm keen to not admit #xorg-devel is pointless.
 [17:15:04]  <daniels> jak: no-one's really sure why you want to disable randr.
 [17:15:08]  <airlied> just configure zaphod in xorg..
 [17:15:11]  <airlied> xorg.conf
 [17:15:19]  <marcheu> daniels: -ENEGATIONSTACKOVERFLOW
 [17:15:45]  <daniels^ trying to maintain hope in #xorg-devel
 [17:17:05]  <jak^ I just tried to disable randr, but I couldn't with option in  xorg.conf. . that's why I channged in source
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[17:18:52]  <daniels> jak: why are you trying to disable randr? it's completely unnecessary and pointless.
 [17:18:57]  <daniels> (iow, don't.)
 [17:19:39]  * jcristau sighs at smi
 [17:19:40]  <jak> I got x crash, so I want to test without randr...
 [17:20:11]  <jak> daniels, why is it unnecessary and pointless?
 [17:20:47]  <daniels^ if you got an x crash, file a bug.
 [17:20:58]  <jak> ok
 [17:22:10]  <jak> I don't care about randr, so I just wanted to test without it to see if it works
 [17:22:38]  <daniels> it's not going to help, only make it worse, really.
 [17:22:50]  <jak> ok
 [17:24:52]  <jak> I'm gonna file a bug.. I gotta go before I get bitten more..
 [17:25:09]  <daniels> cool, attach (not paste) full xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log
 [17:25:15]  <jak> OK
 [17:25:27]  <daniels> thanks
 [17:25:34]  <jak> thanks
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[18:28:28]  <dberkholz> keithp: do you have those unicode characters you use in specs saved somewhere, or do you actually memorize how to type them?
 [18:30:05]  * cjb was wondering about those.
 [18:31:40]  <jcristau^ i fixed some fd leaks in libxcb today. maybe that would fix your issues?
 [18:32:28]  <daniels> dberkholz: gucharmap.
 [18:34:37]  <cjb> jcristau: ah, I'm not linking to libxcb at the moment
 [18:34:57]  <cjb> (also, this is for OLPC, where we're shipping Fedora 9 stuff.)
 [18:35:00]  <keithp> dberkholz: uh, gucharmap ftw?
 [18:35:27]  <jcristau> cjb: libx11 in f9 uses libxcb afaik
 [18:35:34]  <cjb> dberkholz: hey, friendly planet-add-request ping.  Will make sure to rate-limit further pings appropriately.  ;-)
 [18:35:38]  <cjb> jcristau: oh, interesting
 [18:35:39]  <cjb> I see
 [18:37:15]  <jcristau^ the bug i found matched your symptoms, in any case: open a socket, try to connect(), and keep it open if that fails
 [18:37:26]  <cjb^ cool.  well, thanks for fixing it!
 [18:39:30]  <dberkholz^ yep, keep it up.
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[18:46:00]  <cworth> OK. So here's your chance to root my box. Who's got an xserver 1.5 tar file for me while the freedesktop.org machines are down?
 [18:46:39]  <jcristau^ ftp.debian.org? :)
 [18:46:51]  <jcristau> also, ftp.x.org
 [18:47:11]  <daniels> ftp.x.org == annarchy.
 [18:47:21]  <daniels> oh, no, wait, it's expo.  wtf?
 [18:47:22]  <jcristau> http://ftp.x.org/pub/individual/xserver/xorg-server-1.5.0.tar.bz2
 [18:47:40]  <jcristau> it's a mirror. which is good, given annarchy's reliability.
 [18:48:10]  <cworth> Oh, cool.
 [18:48:23]  * cworth had assumed that was annarchy too
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[18:53:23]  <reduz> back home
 [18:53:32]  <reduz> time to continue having fun writing toolkit
 [19:02:31]  <reduz> hmm.. i imagine there has to be a way i can talk to the window manager to tell it when a window is modal
 [19:02:49]  <daniels> google for netwm
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[19:02:52]  <reduz> or nt resizable
 [19:02:58]  <reduz> oh thanks! will check that
 [19:06:41]  <reduz> whoa, a well defined standard, this is incredible
 [19:07:06]  <reduz> didn't expect to find this... must be because there's more people making window managers than toolkits :P
 [19:07:56]  <cjb> ah, annarchy down again?
 [19:08:05]  <DrNick> reduz: presumably you've already found the ICCCM
 [19:08:17]  <cjb> (oh, just saw scrollback.)
 [19:08:54]  <reduz> DrNick, oh no, i meant, i'm making a toolkit and so far far it was more like a research project than following a specification (been pretty fun, though). So i'm pretty surprised about this
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[19:42:49]  <reduz> oh btw, here's a much deeper question
 [19:42:59]  <reduz> how do i know when i got a doubleclick?
 [19:43:29]  <reduz> i'm sure my desktop environment has that configured somewhere and somehow i need to either be given the doubleclick or some info to detect it
 [19:43:34]  <reduz> any clue?
 [19:44:11]  <daniels> look for two click events in a row ...
 [19:44:18]  <daniels> (bed)
 [19:44:57]  <reduz> but what about the doubleclick time configured in my desktop environment?
 [19:44:59]  <reduz> ok, night!
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[19:54:40]  <jg> reduz: and check the timestamps.....
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[19:58:19]  <reduz> i really see nothing special about the timestamp.. i know i can check doubleclick by detecting the timestamp difference, but the max time difference i don't know and it's probably configured somewhere
 [19:59:02]  <reduz> i could use an arbitrary magic number of like, 150ms, but i'm sure that max value is somewhere
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[20:08:12]  <jg> reduz: it's someplace in your favorite toolkit's configuration....
 [20:09:40]  <jg> ping whot
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[20:13:45]  <reduz> oh, not standard :(
 [20:14:18]  <jg^ left to toolkits.
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[20:14:51]  <reduz> so it means if i change it in gnome, it won't work for kde apps?
 [20:14:54]  <jg> and the modern toolkit folks ignored the (overused) resource stuff intended to be standard for all clients.
 [20:15:06]  <jg> reduz: probably not, unfortunately.
 [20:15:14]  <jg> I hope I'm wrong.
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[20:15:59]  <DrNick> XSETTINGS is supposed to be where this kind of stuff is stored, but the spec cleverly fails to mention any of the settings that you're supposed to store in it
 [20:16:55]  <jg^ I'd like to take certain people out to (paint) a woodshed ;-).
 [20:17:02]  <jg> and get it fixed....
 [20:17:03]  <jg> Sigh...
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[20:19:26]  <reduz> oh, you are completely right.. just checked and qt-config saves the setting only for Qt
 [20:19:37]  <jg> DrNick: the intent in the dark ages was to use the Xlib resource stuff for this sort of thing; then the Xt folks went overboard with it, and gave it a bad name....
 [20:20:24]  <jg> the thing that's completely broken about the current stuff is it is file based, which, when you are running across the net, sucks rocks.  You don't necessarily have any way to look at files.
 [20:20:49]  <jg> sigh....
 [20:22:03]  <Lrrr^ that's fascinating
 [20:23:02]  <jg> heh....
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[20:24:47]  <halfline> the X setting is standardized i believe
 [20:24:54]  <halfline> Net/DoubleClickTim
 [20:24:56]  <halfline> e
 [20:24:56]  <Lrrr> It's very interesting to learn bits of how X is that way and should have been otherwise, or not
 [20:25:52]  <halfline> (at least it would be weird for gtk to use an xsetting that started with Net/ if it wasn't)
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[20:27:00]  <jg> yeah, the resource stuff in Xlib is very powerful.  And intended to solve alot of those classes of problems.  But the Xt folks went off the absolute deep end, allowing you to customize each and everything about each widget, without what we now call "themes".  Bad idea, that left a long term sour taste in many people's (including my) mouth.  A success disaster, that obscured the original intent and success.
 [20:27:26]  <jg> very frustrating....
 [20:28:10]  <jg> but I understand that if people didn't know the original usage model, they might think it was insane to use it.
 [20:28:16]  <jg> Grrrrrr.......
 [20:28:42]  <jg> and I hated what the Xt folks did with it....
 [20:28:45]  <jg> sigh....
 [20:29:16]  <jg> here's a sledge hammer; lets flatten anything that has any thing to pound on....
 [20:29:47]  <halfline> my biggest gripe with x resources is it's dependence on a c preprocessor
 [20:29:55]  <jg> heh.
 [20:30:01]  <jg> That has nothing to do with xlib.
 [20:30:07]  <jg> That has to do with loading the property.
 [20:30:20]  <jg> And didn't exist in the original stuff at all (it's entirely in xrdb).
 [20:30:36]  <halfline> well loading gcc a few times during login is lame
 [20:30:51]  <jg> halfline: only because gcc is such a pig....
 [20:30:58]  <alanc> having to load all of gcc to do cpp is lame
 [20:31:04]  <jg> but I agree something else should have been used.
 [20:32:03]  <jg> cpp used to be this really small light macro preprocessor, before Gnu got its hands on it.
 [20:32:44]  <jg> and everyone hates M4, which was the alternative in those days.
 [20:33:08]  <jg> it made sense in a perverse way, once you know the history.
 [20:34:34]  <halfline> i guess that makes some sense
 [20:34:48]  <jg> yeah, we had fewer tools and small disks.
 [20:35:06]  <jg> worse, few tools that were universally available and the same, at times.
 [20:35:27]  <jg> oh, then there is my other Xt rant....
 [20:36:13]  <jg> that the stupid resource files had to be installed along with the applications (typically in a different place) rather then getting built into the apps, was complete insanity; makes for a fragile system....
 [20:36:20]  <jg> I'm *sooo* happy Xt is dead....
 [20:36:59]  <fredrikh> there's one thing that xsettings handles better than x resources iirc, and that's settings changing at runtime
 [20:37:00]  <jg> ding, dong, the witch is dead, the witch is dead, the witch is dead, ding, dong, the wicked witch is dead
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[20:37:08]  <fredrikh> other than that it's a simpler version of the same thing
 [20:37:19]  <jg^ changing the window property notifies all aps.
 [20:37:34]  <jg> and the resource stuff was designed with that intent.
 [20:38:26]  <fredrikh^ yeah, but the xlib api doesn't really provide any provisions for dealing with that, since it loads the settings both from files, that property etc.
 [20:38:57]  <jg^ the toolkit gets the property change event, and was supposed to get the updated property with the new resources.
 [20:40:28]  <jg> ironically, you can take an Xt app and on the fly go change the resource for any widget dynamically.
 [20:41:10]  <jg> Why they didn't complete the story is beyond my comprehension...  But I was off doing other things at that point, and we had Motif Vs. openlook wars instead.
 [20:41:19]  <jg> grrr.....
 [20:41:45]  <fredrikh^ but i don't think there's a way to update the database in the Display struct... it's been a while since i last looked at it though
 [20:42:02]  <jg^ I think you can.
 [20:42:10]  <jg> And if you can't, it's a line or so of code...
 [20:42:18]  <fredrikh> oh there is... XrmSetDatabase
 [20:42:20]  <jg> it isn't rocket science.
 [20:42:27]  <jg> fredrikh: I rest my case.
 [20:42:59]  <fredrikh> i wonder what gave me that idea the last time i looked at this :)
 [20:43:00]  <jg> you are free to quote me about Xt ;-).
 [20:43:39]  <jg> would be ironic to get basic settings by GTK and Qt to agree to use resources, tho...
 [20:43:42]  <jg> heh.
 [20:45:01]  <jg> fredrikh: xresedit is quite amusing...  Now if the rest of Xt (and the bletcherous widget sets) hadn't been so botched....  Or the idea sooooo overused in such a fragile way...
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[20:45:27]  <halfline> jg: well gtk and qt are agree to use xsettings for basic settings
 [20:45:33]  <jg> morning benh
 [20:46:02]  <jg> .au awakes, and smells coffee....
 [20:46:44]  <fredrikh> halfline: i don't think either does in practice though
 [20:46:49]  <benh> heh
 [20:47:50]  <jg^ going to be in Portland next week by any chance?
 [20:47:55]  <benh> yup
 [20:47:58]  <jg> cool.
 [20:48:10]  <benh> flying out tomorrow
 [20:48:49]  <jg> long flight, but the west coast isn't quite as bad as the east.
 [20:49:17]  <jg> the worst part of LCA is the plane ride.
 [20:49:34]  <jg> everything else has always been great!
 [20:53:17]  <benh> heh
 [20:53:26]  <benh> yeah and I'm in coach this time around
 [20:53:30]  <benh> sux
 [20:55:21]  <halfline> fredrikh: gtk currently uses"Net/DoubleClickTime\0" "Net/DoubleClickDistance\0" "Net/DndDragThreshold\0" "Net/CursorBlink\0" "Net/CursorBlinkTime\0" "Net/ThemeName\0
 [20:55:53]  <halfline> along with "Xft/Antialias\0" "Xft/Hinting\0" "Xft/HintStyle\0" "Xft/RGBA\0" "Xft/DPI\0"
 [20:56:06]  <halfline> and "Net/FallbackIconTheme\0"
 [20:56:23]  <halfline> (ignore the \0's, i'm copying and pasting from gdksettings.c)
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[20:57:22]  <jg> benh: sorry to hear that; that hurts.
 [20:57:28]  <reduz> ok, this setting/getting attoms stuff with the WM isn't as nice as i thought
 [20:57:50]  <reduz> i guess if i just support NETWM i'll be fine
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[21:23:16]  <fredrikh> halfline: oh, cool
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[22:20:49]  <reduz> hmm seems if i try to set one of those _NETWM_ atoms when just creating the window, i get device or resource busy
 [22:21:06]  <reduz> will have to store the state
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[22:45:29]  <reduz> hmm i'm correctly setting the modal hint
 [22:45:35]  <reduz> but nothing at all happens
 [22:45:51]  <reduz> maybe it's just a hint and that's all
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[23:25:41]  <reduz> hmm seems i miss WM_TRANSIENT_FOR ?
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[23:57:00]  <reduz> that was it
 [23:57:04]  <reduz> seems to be working much nicer now
 ----- [2008-09-10] -----
 [00:01:04]  <reduz> but the WM still is allowing input on bg windows
 [00:01:16]  <reduz> it's kinda like photoshop :)
 [00:13:56]  <DrNick> yeah, modal windows is pretty much a Windows thing
 [00:14:30]  <DrNick> WM_TRANSIENT_FOR basically says "this window should be shown on top of that window and maybe give it a different title bar or whatever"
 [00:16:00]  <reduz> so if i want to have like, a modal window, and i don't want to input on it.. should i just force focus to the transientted window?
 [00:16:09]  <reduz> er, input on the parent i mean)
 [00:17:35]  <DrNick> you can't do that
 [00:17:45]  <DrNick> the "force focus" part, that is
 [00:17:50]  <DrNick> the WM will do whatever the hell it wants
 [00:17:54]  <DrNick> and rightly so
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[00:26:00]  <reduz> ahh
 [00:26:07]  <reduz> well, i'll try, if it gets ignored i can't do much :P
 [00:27:24]  <reduz> oh yeah, the window manager is definitely ignoring me
 [00:28:38]  <reduz> what the
 [00:28:41]  <reduz> i think i got something wrong
 [00:29:44]  <reduz> ah, was using transient_for backwards :P
 [00:30:43]  <reduz> DrNick, btw, do you know where can i set a windows to be borderless, and not allow itself to max/minimize or resize?
 [00:30:56]  <reduz> (borderless as in, like xmms)
 [00:31:15]  <DrNick> override redirect
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[00:51:02]  <reduz> DrNick, hmm i couldn't find that on the WM spec, I'm guessing it's an Xlib thing?
 [00:52:32]  <reduz> oh it was in the windows attributes
 [00:52:38]  <reduz> er, window
 [00:54:06]  <antrik> I always HATED non-resizable windows... I don't understand why people do this
 [00:57:40]  <reduz> whoa, override redirect actually works
 [00:58:42]  <reduz> this is sweet
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[03:17:32]  <benjsc> anyone know where I can get the xcb-proto srpm for fc9?
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[03:18:00]  <maniac103> airlied: ping
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[03:20:19]  <airlied> maniac103: am just about to leave for ubs.. bbl.
 [03:20:23]  <airlied> bus
 [03:20:53]  <maniac103^ ah, ok, cu later :)
 [03:21:54]  <whot> benjsc: yumdownloader --source xcb-proto
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[03:39:58]  <benjsc> whot: thx
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[04:17:19]  <airlied> maniac103: am here now.
 [04:18:17]  <maniac103^ great :) I just wanted to ask you if radeon is supposed to be very raw on rawhide (modeset oopses, 2D in X is incredibly slow, starting compiz causes a server segfault)?
 [04:18:39]  <maniac103> (I have a dmesg for the oops and a Xorg.0.log for the server segfault)
 [04:19:12]  <airlied^ yup, what is the oops that I care about.
 [04:19:36]  <airlied> 2D shouldn't be really slow though it won't fly but it shouldn't be really slow.
 [04:19:45]  <airlied> compiz I think is a mesa issue
 [04:20:45]  <maniac103> that's the oops: http://www.pastebin.ca/1198970 (R430 AGP)
 [04:21:21]  <maniac103> and that's the crasher: http://www.pastebin.ca/1198971
 [04:22:01]  <airlied> ouch.. agp appears to be failing
 [04:24:50]  <maniac103> and 2D is _really_ slow (Metacity's Xrender Alt+Tab popup takes around 5 seconds to appear; opening a new tab in gnome-terminal is also slow-mo so I can see a grey area before the tab is drawn)
 [04:25:07]  <airlied> what size desktop you got?
 [04:25:31]  <maniac103> huh?
 [04:25:40]  <maniac103> you mean resolution?
 [04:25:58]  <airlied> yup.. if you have two monitors the total size
 [04:26:28]  <maniac103> one monitor only, 1280x1024
 [04:26:37]  <airlied> hmm so its not a sizing issue
 [04:26:42]  <airlied> you have EXA enabled?
 [04:28:09]  <maniac103> according to Xorg.0.log yes
 [04:29:07]  <maniac103> xorg.0.log: http://www.pastebin.ca/1198976
 [04:29:09]  <airlied> if you disable the metacity compositor does it go fater?
 [04:29:10]  <airlied> faster
 [04:30:55]  <maniac103> no, there's no noticable difference in speed
 [04:31:39]  <airlied> okay so its an issue with the nvidia agp driver by the looks of it why modesetting doesn't work.
 [04:32:45]  <airlied> I'm not sure why non-modeset would be much slower
 [04:32:57]  <airlied> as it fallsback to the old driver code.
 [04:33:29]  <maniac103> well, perhaps it's a regression in the old driver code compared to F9 ;-)
 [04:34:32]  <maniac103> btw, from where does radeon_get_vram_type get the memory width information? it's reporting 128 bit, where my card has 256 bit
 [04:34:53]  <maniac103> (sorry for so much problem reports in one go :-/ )
 [04:35:02]  <airlied> from the registers.. does your xorg log file say 256?
 [04:36:56]  <maniac103> yes
 [04:37:02]  <maniac103> (--) RADEON(0): Mapped VideoRAM: 262144 kByte (256 bit DDR SDRAM)
 [04:40:09]  <airlied^ can you open a bug on rh bz with that stuff attached?
 [04:40:22]  <airlied> and I'll try and get to it all :)
 [04:40:47]  <airlied> if you feel like building a kernel I could send some patches to track down the nvidia agp issue
 [04:40:50]  <maniac103^ sure - one bug or one for modesetting + one for X problems?
 [04:41:15]  <airlied^ throw them all in one, just make sure you assign it to me so our triage people don't go messing  with it :)
 [04:41:33]  <maniac103> well, I don't really feel like building a kernel, but I want that fixed, so guess I have no other option ;-)
 [04:42:07]  <maniac103> will open a bug report
 [04:42:35]  <airlied> the kernel you want is git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/airlied/drm-2.6.git drm-rawhide branch
 [04:42:52]  <airlied> I might be able to fix the nvidia-agp without it, but I'm not sure
 [04:43:56]  <airlied> I'll at least fix it so modeset fails if AGP fails
 [04:45:12]  <johnflux^ wow, the speaker is very annoying
 [04:45:39]  <johnflux> "and we see a first beam go round.  and if we don't get the first beam go round, then we won't get TWO beams going round"
 [04:45:47]  <johnflux> woah
 [04:45:52]  <johnflux> that was totally the wrong channel
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[04:50:02]  <maniac103> airlied: seemingly I can't set the assignee
 [04:52:03]  <airlied^ gimme the bz#
 [04:52:29]  <maniac103> not yet there ... sec
 [04:55:55]  <maniac103> airlied: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461727
 [04:56:37]  <marcheu> ymanton: did you try to instrument that code ? I'm really curious there
 [04:56:42]  <marcheu> bah
 [04:56:52]  <marcheu> I really fail at irc these days
 [04:56:59]  <maniac103> airlied: if there is any more info you need, just tell me ... and thanks for looking into it :)
 [04:57:07]  <marcheu> I need a plugin against the up,enter disease
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[08:01:40]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[08:31:47]  <webustany> hi there. For some time now xbacklight has stopped working with my intel card (x1300)... Is this a driver issue, or a randr issue ? Is there some way to troubleshoot / help with that ?
 [08:31:58]  <webustany> I'd really like to have backlight working again on my laptop
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[08:49:40]  <whot> svu: ping
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[09:08:57]  <buggs> webustany, does it work via /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness ?
 [09:09:40]  <buggs> maybe you do not modprobe video
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[09:10:40]  <webustany> buggs: hi. video is modprobbed, and writing in this files does nothinh
 [09:10:40]  <webustany> *nothing
 [09:10:40]  <webustany> my setup is a bit special, it's a dual card laptop (sony sz), with an nvidia card and an intel one
 [09:10:40]  <webustany> I never use the nvidia
 [09:10:47]  <buggs> mabye /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video1/brightness then?
 [09:11:40]  <webustany> I don't have it, the system sees only one card
 [09:11:40]  <buggs> modprobe sony-laptop?
 [09:11:40]  <webustany> you cannot change without rebooting
 [09:11:40]  <webustany> yes, it's modprobbed :)
 [09:11:40]  <webustany> it exports a special interface
 [09:11:43]  <webustany> (/sys/class/backlight/sony)
 [09:11:45]  <webustany> doesn't work either
 [09:11:52]  <webustany> xbacklight used to be the magic solution
 [09:11:56]  <webustany> but one day it stopped working
 [09:11:59]  <buggs> then it's probably a kernel bug?
 [09:12:46]  <webustany> might be... That was a part of my question :
 [09:12:52]  <webustany> who's in charge of writing the backlight registers ?
 [09:13:40]  <webustany> looks like the default backlight ACPI calls don't work with that card
 [09:13:40]  <webustany> otoh, you wouldn't expect sony to follow a standard (if not a sony standard)
 [09:14:40]  <jcristau> if the x driver finds a kernel interface for it, it will let the kernel handle the backlight changing, otherwise it will bang the registers itself aiui
 [09:16:41]  <webustany^ ok, so that might be a behaviour change in the driver ?
 [09:16:45]  <webustany> I think there's a way to alter that behaviour using xrandr right ?
 [09:16:54]  <jcristau> yeah there's a BACKLIGHT_CONTROL randr property
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[09:20:49]  <webustany> jcristau: yeaaaaaah it works using BACKLIGHT_CONTROL=native
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[09:20:58]  <webustany> buggs, jcristau thanks a lot
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[10:47:57]  <wereHamster> is anongit still down?
 [10:48:20]  <jcristau> no
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[10:49:31]  <wereHamster> ah, xcb modules aren't under xorg/xcb/ but under xcb/
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[12:15:31]  <reduz-wrk> dang, override-redirect doesn't work once the windows has been setup
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[12:20:12]  <reduz-wrk> strangely, works in compiz but not metacity
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[12:22:27]  <reduz-wrk> maybe i can hack up some stuff
 [12:31:36]  <johnflux> daniels: don't suppose you had a chance to look at my patches?
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[12:37:45]  <reduz-wrk> ok Question, is it normal that setting "_NET_WM_STATE*" stuff myself doesn't really change anything in my app (as in, just a hint to the WM) or am i doing things wrong?
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[13:01:19]  <reduz-wrk> oh WM_STATE was a hint :(
 [13:01:53]  <fredrikh^ what are you trying to do exactly?
 [13:02:54]  <fredrikh> if you're trying to get rid of the frame, you have to set the MWM hints
 [13:02:58]  <reduz-wrk^ just control stuff like modal windows, force skipping the taskbar, make windows borderless, etc
[13:03:13]  <reduz-wrk> MWM ?
[13:04:28]  <fredrikh> motif window manager
 [13:04:31]  <reduz-wrk> It's not very clear to me which parts of the NETWM spec are hints, and which actually ask the window manager to do stuff
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[13:14:44]  <stillunknown> reduz-wrk: I think they're all hints.
 [13:16:24]  <reduz-wrk> so that means i have to do everything myself and just give the WM hints so like.. it's happy?
 [13:16:50]  <stillunknown> Not like that.
 [13:17:07]  <ajax> daniels: anything left that we need to do for 7.4?
 [13:17:34]  <reduz-wrk^ fix SDL capturing cursor forever bug :(
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[13:17:48]  <reduz-wrk> wait, pointer, nor cursor
 [13:17:48]  <stillunknown> I think they're hints for the window manager, but they are not required to be used.
 [13:17:58]  <ajax> reduz-wrk: stop using dga kthnx
 [13:18:56]  <reduz-wrk^ I'm not an SDL developer, and SDL is pretty much dead (even though everyone uses it)
 [13:19:22]  <ajax> i'm sorry, i said something else than what i meant
 [13:19:33]  <ajax> which was "no, don't care about that at this point"
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[13:22:30]  <reduz-wrk> ajax, oh ok..  but that bug is there since like.. ever. isn't it xorg's fault?
 [13:22:37]  <ajax> probably.
 [13:22:46]  <ajax> well, xfree86's fault, but let's not split hairs.
 [13:23:00]  <ajax> my question was about the mechanics of doing the release, not about the content.
 [13:24:03]  <reduz-wrk> oh ok, i understand. Can I report the bug somewhere so it's considered for future fixing?
 [13:24:25]  <ajax> bugs.freedesktop.org, though it's almost certainly already there somewhere
 [13:24:50]  <ajax> in fact i think daniels even wrote a patch that he thought would fix it, but didn't have any way to test it
 [13:25:14]  <jcristau> MrCooper tested it, and it didn't work, iirc
 [13:25:39]  <ajax> aaw
 [13:27:10]  <ajax> why you gotta bring me down like that
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[13:29:13]  <jcristau> so you remove dga from 1.6 out of spite
 [13:29:16]  <jcristau> ;)
 [13:29:54]  <ajax> it's certainly going to unexist once xi2 happenas
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[13:31:17]  <reduz-wrk> sounds good to me
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[13:34:40]  <reduz-wrk> well, I give up trying to make the WM do what i want, hope someone else fixes this once i release
 [13:34:48]  <reduz-wrk> too difficult
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[14:01:18]  <svu> whot, pong
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[14:31:29]  <dberkholz> cjb: you're on the planet
 [14:32:23]  <cjb> thanks!
 [14:32:49]  <cjb> benjsc: you might be interested in hosed(1)
 [14:33:14]  <cjb> it locks itself into RAM and gives you TCP access to kill tasks when everything else is, well, hosed.
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[14:51:43]  <reduz-wrk> Question: how can i force the window manager to transfer focus from one of my windows to another?
 [14:56:20]  <reduz-wrk> say, if i dialog appears
 [14:56:25]  <reduz-wrk> i obviously want the dialog to gain focus
 [14:56:52]  <wereHamster> you can not force it. You can request it
 [14:57:15]  <reduz-wrk> ok, how can i request it?
 [14:57:33]  <wereHamster> I don't know, but it's likely described in the netwm spec
 [14:59:20]  <reduz-wrk> i already tried with _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW, but without any success
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[15:01:51]  <wereHamster> are you sending it to the root window (and not your own window)?
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[15:04:25]  <reduz-wrk> wereHamster, you mean the root window of my app?
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[15:05:12]  <wereHamster> no, the root window of the screen
 [15:05:28]  <wereHamster> for example to DefaultRootWindow(dpy)
 [15:05:51]  <reduz-wrk> oh, it had to be that root window
 [15:06:10]  <wereHamster> there is only one root window (per X screen)
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[15:06:52]  <reduz-wrk> ah i had somehow the feeling that the toplevel was also called root
 [15:06:55]  <wereHamster> application windows are usually referred to as 'toplevel' windows (toplevel because their parent is the root window)
 [15:07:06]  <reduz-wrk> did that and it worked, though, so thanks a lot
 [15:09:39]  <reduz-wrk> this works fantastic
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[15:15:56]  <dagb> cjb: got a url for hosed?
 [15:16:55]  <cjb^ http://cvs.ofb.net/hosed/
 [15:17:25]  <dagb^ thanks
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[15:24:08]  <cjb> ah, looks like the trick is to set itself SCHED_FIFO and then mlockall().
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[16:08:18]  <daniels> ajax: you might want to roll 1.5.0.1 for the build system fixes, aside from that it's golden.  directory == module-list.txt == wiki, too.  i've written some shit release notes; you probably want to redo them.
 [16:08:31]  <daniels> johnflux: yes and they look okay, just need to split/clean and commit.  ta.
 [16:09:27]  <daniels> reduz-wrk: the dga thing isn't even difficult.  the only problem is that i'm moving continent in a few weeks, and as part of that have shed pretty much all my hardware.  i literally don't have two machines with input that i can ssh between to do interactive debugging.
 [16:09:36]  ***  Strunkenbold has left chat #xorg-devel (Remote closed the connection).
[16:09:47]  <daniels> reduz-wrk: if you had gdb, you could knock it over in an afternoon, assuming no previous x-specific experience.
 [16:10:50]  <reduz-wrk^ but is the problem of missing pointer related to dga?
 [16:11:33]  <ajax> no, we just brought it up for no reason.
 [16:11:45]  <ajax> (yes.)
 [16:12:05]  <ajax> man, i'm really being snarky lately.
 [16:12:12]  <ajax> i need to knock that shit off
 [16:13:48]  <daniels^ you seem to have lost your fear of the police.
 [16:13:56]  <cjb^ hey, where are you moving to?
 [16:14:46]  <daniels^ back to good old melbourne town.
 [16:14:54]  <reduz-wrk> tired of finland?
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[16:16:40]  <cjb> daniels: hurrah.  have you been swallowed up into a(nother) huge Linux company like everyone else?
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[16:24:40]  <daniels> reduz-wrk: i should put this diplomatically.  helsinki is a very nice city, and gorgeous to visit.  but it's not a huge thriving capital city.  going from ~3.8m (melbourne) to 550,000 (hki proper) is ... well, it's tough, and it's been a fair while already.
 [16:24:40]  <daniels> cjb: yeah, still hacking on x, and still doing consumer/embedded stuff to some extent.
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[16:26:40]  <reduz-wrk> daniels, ahh I can imagine (I live in buenos aires), moving to someplace more quiet would feel weird
 [16:26:57]  <stillunknown> 500k is quiet, lol'ish
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[16:27:43]  <wereHamster> 500k is more then the largest city in my country!
 [16:31:33]  <daniels> it's fine if that's what you like.  i spent my first 12 years in 65k.  i like spending extended time in the absolute middle of nowhere (french alps, farm in regional australia, rainforest, etc), but i also like generally in a big city and, well, hki ain't it. :)
 [16:31:51]  <daniels> kà benhavn or possibly barcelona/berlin would be neat too.
 [16:34:17]  <krh^ props for the es
 [16:34:38]  <ajax> seriously, cities.
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[16:35:24]  <ajax> i can't imagine moving anywhere with less than 1m people
 [16:35:53]  <airlied> or westford
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[16:39:15]  <ajax> yeah, that was a mistake
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[16:40:54]  <CosmicPenguin> I've lived most of my life in _states_ without 1m people
 [16:41:01]  <cjb> I like big cities too, but somehow survived in Cambridge, UK.  I guess I like big cities because they make it likely that I'll find people with my interests, and that happened in Cambridge anyway.
[16:41:12]  <cjb> CosmicPenguin: but you hate all humans, remember?
 [16:41:24]  <CosmicPenguin> but I looove sheep
 [16:41:29]  <CosmicPenguin> did I say that out loud?
 [16:41:30]  <cjb> that'd do it.
 [16:41:41]  <CosmicPenguin> yay wyoming
 [16:42:06]  <z3ro^ heh, move to NZ. :P
 [16:42:11]  <ajax> hmm.  xcb-proto grew some python.
 [16:42:11]  <ajax> wtf.
 [16:43:59]  <wereHamster> is that bad?
 [16:44:15]  <alanc> wasn't that eamon's doing?  replacing the xslt with python to transform xml into C?
 [16:44:32]  <ajax> maybe?  i haven't been paying attention
 [16:45:10]  <wereHamster> I think it's been quite some time since xcb started using python
 [16:45:13]  <daniels> krh: no worries.  i worked out that the west coast gang sign is \x/ as well.  straight gangsta.
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[16:45:22]  <daniels> \X/ maybe
 [16:45:40]  <daniels> airlied: haha.  touchhe.
 [16:46:21]  <daniels> krh: what can i say though.  i've always loved my compose key, and you were a gitweb regression test.
 [16:47:35]  <daniels> yeah, iirc xcb has gone from m4 (!!) -> xslt (works, but !) -> pyxml (less appropriate than xslt but vastly less terrifying).
 [16:48:19]  <daniels> shame xslt is so pathological though, it can do some really awesome stuff.  it is a bit from the proprietary unix 'woah, we need to do more than one thing here: bring in the turing-completeness!' school of engineering.
 [16:49:06]  <ajax> when in doubt, use more overkill
 [16:49:10]  <cjb> "from the same people who brought you sendmail.cf, ..."
 [16:49:28]  <daniels^ '... postscript ...'
 [16:49:56]  <daniels> ajax: Xi/
 [16:50:44]  <daniels> that's the overkill emoticon.  in that, you've gone in for a crazy bangle-stretched neck, and you're twirling fire while nonchalantly waving with the other.  everyone hates you.
 [16:50:44]  <pjones> ihnj, ijls "transform xml into C".
 [16:51:14]  <daniels> s/</(/ # sometimes \"!
 [16:52:36]  <stillunknown> There are really schools that teach excessive over-engineering?
 [16:53:14]  <pjones> isn't that most of what CS programs teach?
 [16:53:35]  <ajax> if you've ever taken a course with the word "patterns" in the title...
 [16:53:47]  <daniels> seriously.
 [16:53:55]  <daniels> class URLFactory
 [16:54:07]  <daniels> sorry, URI factory.  that only handles one url schema.
 [16:54:29]  <pjones> patterns aren't over-engineering.  They're under-engineering via cookbook usage.
 [16:54:47]  <pjones> daniels: surely a URLFactory is what a URIFactory produces?
 [16:55:08]  <ajax> Results 1 - 10 of about 3,050 for factoryfactory. (0.15 seconds)
[16:55:38]  <stillunknown> I even considered doing CS a few years ago.
 [16:56:02]  <ajax> Results 1 - 10 of about 19 for factoryfactoryfactory. (0.12 seconds)
[16:56:14]  <ajax> most of which are not real.  dang.
 [16:56:21]  <stillunknown> But it seemed like a perfect way to ruin a nice hobby.
 [16:56:32]  <stillunknown> (and i had other interests as well)
 [16:56:37]  <wereHamster> ajax: This one looks real: FactoryFactoryFactory.CreateFactoryFactory().CreateFactory().CreateFactorifiedThing().
 [16:56:53]  <ajax> uh, that's from 4chan
 [16:57:08]  <ajax> nothing on 4chan counts as real
 [16:58:25]  <daniels> pjones: oh, of course.
 [16:58:51]  <daniels> stillunknown: yeah, there's a reason i picked softeng over compsci.
 [16:59:10]  <ajax> ee was definitely a better use of my time
 [16:59:21]  <stillunknown> softeng seems quite close compsci
 [16:59:23]  <reduz-wrk> hoorj, finished implementing window functionality in my toolkit
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[17:04:47]  <daniels> stillunknown: depends at which uni, but the difference between them at unimelb is very much town/gown.
 [17:05:03]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, if nothing else, i'm glad on x's behalf that you took ee.
 [17:05:44]  <stillunknown> I don't fully get the town/gown part, i suspect it's something to do with general attitude of people.
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[17:08:05]  <daniels> there's a lot of unnecessary resentment between both sides, and more than a grain of truth each.
 [17:08:07]  <daniels> s/and/but/
 [17:08:07]  <daniels> (living here has destroyed my english.)
 [17:08:24]  <stillunknown> Then you'd better get out while you can.
 [17:09:27]  <stillunknown> At some point in my life i wouldn't mind going to Australia, do some cycling perhaps/
 [17:09:28]  <daniels> o/
 [17:09:50]  <daniels> heh, nice
 [17:09:57]  <daniels> it's going to take you a while.  and it gets kind of warm.
 [17:10:22]  <stillunknown> My secondary school physics teacher did that for a year with his wife.
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[17:10:42]  <stillunknown> I imagine it takes quite a bit of water to survive.
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[17:10:47]  <daniels> rather.
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[17:11:04]  <airlied> I should totally go visit Aus for 6 months.. 6 years later..
 [17:11:40]  <stillunknown> People say the general attitude of people towards life is quite good, and it's a pleasant place to live.
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[17:12:40]  <ajax> plus they wait at least a few years for a public policy to fail in the US before implementing it, so you at least have time to prepare
 [17:12:53]  <daniels> airlied: heh
 [17:13:53]  <daniels> i've never been to wa or nt, or further west/north than adelaide in sa, or to any of inland qld.
 [17:14:40]  <airlied^ so you've covered as much as I have then :)
 [17:14:49]  <airlied> I can't even make it to Tas for LCA next yeear
 [17:14:49]  <daniels> ajax: in fairness, much though .au politics induces despair, i've looked at the actual state of the two countries, and it hasn't dissuaded me from moving to .au ...
 [17:14:53]  <daniels> airlied: pretty much
 [17:15:06]  <daniels> ha! i have actually gone pretty much everywhere in tassie.  hopefully i can make lca.
 [17:15:42]  <stillunknown> Serious political problems in australia?
 [17:16:08]  <ajax> daniels: .us is mostly only appealing if you're already here.  if you are, it's awesome.  if you're not, it's not particularly compelling.
 [17:16:40]  <daniels> stillunknown: just a distressingly small amount of liberalism compared to the eu, and an irritatingly one-sided alliance with the us.
 [17:17:29]  <daniels> ajax: sure.  i just want health insurance, university, the ability to walk or cycle most everywhere, a tolerant and laid-back culture, and diverse cuisine and nightlife.  the us is not scoring well on most of those.
 [17:17:56]  <stillunknown> Isn't finland bad for cyclists?
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[17:18:04]  <anholt> s/for.*//
 [17:18:31]  <ajax> daniels: all at once?  greedy little monkey.
 [17:18:35]  <daniels> finland is pretty cyclist-tolerant, though drivers tend to be .*-intolerant.
 [17:18:47]  <daniels> ajax: honey, you can't afford me.
 [17:19:09]  <ajax> boston would get you most of that if you're willing to compromise on cuisine
 [17:19:49]  <ajax> health insurance is mandatory now, but it's american insurance, so meh.
 [17:20:29]  <daniels> mm, relative to the rest of the us.  there's no magic medical system there to save my arse, and no university that won't send anyone broke.  fox still exists.  nightlife is ... well.  cuisine is actually not too bad.
 [17:20:30]  <wereHamster> in boston or all of the US?
 [17:20:46]  <daniels> sf would do much better on the fox-existing benchmark, as well as cuisine and a bit better on nightlife.
 [17:20:47]  <ajax> wereHamster: in .ma.us
 [17:21:05]  <daniels> even so, neither of those are ~4m cities.
 [17:25:45]  <ajax> according to the census bureau, boston is.
 [17:26:02]  <ajax> or at least the MSA is
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[17:26:44]  <ajax> but the MSA extends into .nh.us so that's to be taken with a gram of crack
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[17:29:45]  <pjones> ajax: that's the CMSA
 [17:31:17]  <ajax> too many acronyms
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[17:31:39]  <daniels> but what about the MAS?
 [17:33:20]  <pjones> ajax: oh, I take it back, the MSA does include parts of new hampshire.  OTOH, they're empty parts.
 [17:33:59]  <ajax> yeah, they manage to stop short of nashua
 [17:34:01]  <pjones> the CSA includes nashua and manchester though.
 [17:34:12]  <pjones> (... and Worcester and Providence)
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[17:34:42]  <ajax> right, that's just bogus for quality of life comparisons
 [17:34:49]  <pjones> right.
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[17:36:10]  <daniels> ha ha.  nashua.
 [17:36:56]  <daniels> highway.  7/11.  hooters.  cvs.  blockbuster.  the nat-pool-bos kids who haven't moved out yet.
 [17:37:45]  <ajax> there's not really anyone left
 [17:38:16]  <ajax> sÃlren, and...
 [17:39:31]  <glisse> 12
 [17:45:17]  <daniels> ajax: who was there? riel? jamesm? i think jamesm moved.
 [17:45:26]  <halfline> me
 [17:45:44]  <halfline> clee
 [17:45:54]  <halfline> diana, seth nickell
 [17:46:22]  <daniels> clee kind of moved
 [17:46:35]  <daniels> i didn't realise you were in nashua.  royal crest?
 [17:46:40]  <halfline> yup
 [17:46:54]  <halfline> long time ago
 [17:47:19]  <ajax> warren
 [17:47:19]  <halfline> i was living there when you visited clee/steph
 [17:47:55]  <ajax> also caillon
 [17:47:57]  <daniels> oh man.  i thought you were living somewhere else.  working so friggin hard i only left the apartment to go to 7/11. :\
 [17:48:04]  <daniels> yeah, that also.
 [17:48:15]  <halfline> yea caillon was on the other side of nashua
 [17:48:21]  <halfline> clumens used to share a wall with me
 [17:48:28]  <halfline> i'd bang on it just to mess with him
 [17:49:01]  <halfline> dcantrell used to live in royal crest too
 [17:49:28]  <halfline> but now it's only ssp
 [17:49:40]  <daniels> cripes
 [17:50:19]  <ajax> dcantrell upgraded to hawaii.  marked improvement.
 [17:51:09]  <daniels> man, i still can't believe you lived in westford.  i know you weren't exactly in downtown manhattan before, but what the hell were you thinking?
 [17:52:09]  <ajax> clearly i wasn't
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[18:25:17]  <R0b0t1> I'm having problems compiling a test program for x...
 [18:25:46]  <R0b0t1> The only trouble I get is with the linker when GCC calls it, it seems it can't find any of the functions I call.
 [18:28:55]  <wereHamster> what functions can't it find?
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[18:33:14]  <daniels> hmm.  i wonder if we shouldn't manage resolutions as we currently manage windows.  let the wm take note of all the requests and resize as appropriate.
 [18:37:34]  <stillunknown> The only question is how to nicely expose subscreens.
 [18:37:56]  <benjsc> cjb: thanx
 [18:39:31]  <stillunknown> daniels: Maybe add overlay windows to represent crtc's and let the root window be the virtual screen.
 [18:43:00]  <R0b0t1> wereHamster: Practically all of them
 [18:44:06]  <daniels> stillunknown: meh, that's an extension with changes required at wm and server level anyway ...
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[18:45:32]  <daniels> benjsc: i've uncommented the crontab entry for failsafe.sh, thanks!
 [18:45:42]  <wereHamster> R0b0t1: paste the terminal output to a pastebin (also show which gcc commandline you use)
 [18:46:02]  <stillunknown> daniels: But it would be nice.
 [18:46:11]  <benjsc+ I'll watch the logs to see if it kicks in
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[18:46:17]  <R0b0t1> wereHamster: http://pastebin.com/m4daebbfd
 [18:46:55]  <airlied> jbarnes: so what runs for you at the moment?
 [18:47:17]  <wereHamster> R0b0t1: you are not telling gcc where to find the libX11 library. You need to add '-lX11' (and possibly others as well) to the gcc commandline.
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[18:47:41]  <R0b0t1> wereHamster: It didn't complain when I use -lX11
 [18:47:43]  <R0b0t1> So...
 [18:48:10]  <R0b0t1> Yes, by god!
 [18:48:12]  <R0b0t1> It runs :D
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[18:48:44]  <daniels> strictly speaking, you want $(pkg-config --cflags x11) -- as well as any other auxiliary libs -- while compiling, and $(pkg-config --libs x11) -- also any others -- while linking.
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[19:36:51]  * cworth feels like an idiot just trying to build an X server
 [19:37:07]  <cworth> Or rather, I got the xserver 1.5 tar file, and built and installed that just fine.
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[19:37:27]  <cworth> I just can run it yet, since it can't find an ABI-compatible mouse module, and I'm failing at building *that*.
 [19:37:54]  <CosmicPenguin> cjb: I pushed a lot of new geode code, so I apologize in advance if I start your tinderbox on fire
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[19:39:27]  <cworth> So, any kind soul care to tell me what I did to get this?
 [19:39:28]  <cworth> In file included from lnx_mouse.c:13:
 [19:39:28]  <cworth> /opt/xserver-1.5/include/xorg/xf86Xinput.h:118: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?xDeviceCtl?
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[19:40:00]  <daniels> whot: does ditz seem like it'd be useful to include for info?
 [19:40:04]  <daniels> cworth: at a guess, inputproto
 [19:40:39]  <daniels> i'm amazed that xserver built and not mouse, though.  my money's on mouse not having the appropriate CFLAGS for new inputproto.
 [19:41:00]  * cworth empathizes with the people asking for more bundling/less modularization for pieces like this...
 [19:41:42]  <cworth> daniels: So I've got a complete X server build, (master of everything), built and installed to one prefix.
 [19:41:57]  <daniels^ yeah, we still need to come up with an abi for the server.
 [19:42:00]  <daniels> er, api, even.  abi too.
 [19:42:17]  <cworth^ And what I'm trying to do here is the minimal work necessary to build/install xserver 1.5 and specific xf86-video-intel driver versions to a separate prefix.
 [19:42:26]  <cworth> That shouldn't be that hard, should it?
 [19:43:03]  <daniels^ i entirely agree and empathise with you ...
 [19:43:32]  <cworth^ It wasn't rhetorical, though. ;-)
 [19:43:34]  <daniels^ xDeviceCtl is defined in XIproto.h, which is included right up the top of xf86Xinput.h.  is it present in inputproto.h?
 [19:43:41]  <daniels> er, XIproto.h, in your version of inputproto.
 [19:43:45]  <cworth> Should that work without rebuilding the world?
 [19:43:53]  <daniels^ if it doesn't, we've failed.
 [19:44:09]  * cworth checks
 [19:44:11]  <daniels> the problem being that we're just trying to slowly lessen the magnitude of failure.
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[19:48:18]  <cworth> daniels: My XIproto.h includes only X.h and Xproto.h. Is that what you were asking?
 [19:48:42]  * cworth should clarify "master of everything" as "master of everything (sometime ago)", so I could just have stale pieces around.
 [19:49:32]  <daniels^ XIproto.h should define xDeviceCtl, and xf86Xinput.h should include XIproto.h.
 [19:50:15]  <cworth> And I wouldn't even mind random dependency bumps between modules if configure would just tell me about them. (But keithp and anholt have told me it would be insane to try to do package-version bumps during development.)
 [19:50:26]  <cworth> daniels: Ah, sorry. I misread earlier.
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[19:51:04]  <cworth> daniels: Yes, that does seem to be the case.
 [19:51:16]  * cworth looks clsoer at his failed build of xf86-input-mouse
 [19:53:03]  * cworth looks at #ifdef INPUT...
 [19:53:13]  <cworth> #ifdef XINPUT rather.
 [19:53:20]  <daniels> oh my.  really?
 [19:53:27]  <daniels> that shouldn't be the case in 1.5 ...
 [19:54:58]  <daniels> cworth: hm, xorg-server.h should define XINPUT though.  is it being included?
 [19:56:36]  <cworth^ Doesn't appear to be, no.
 [19:56:57]  <cworth> Where should that be getting included from?
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[20:00:24]  <daniels> cworth: the top of all xf86-input-mouse files.
 [20:03:04]  <cworth^ So looks like the gutting of #ifdef XINPUT isn't in 1.5. Am I just trying to build too new of an xf86-input-mouse module? (master)
 [20:04:05]  <daniels^ thing is, xorg-server.h absolutely needs to be included from the very top of all driver c files.
 [20:04:07]  <cworth^ Adding "#include <xorg-server.h>" to lnx_mouse.c fixes my build. Thanks.
 [20:04:41]  <daniels^ if you have time before i wake up tomorrow, could you please add that to all imported files which don't have it and roll a release for 7.5?
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[20:04:45]  <daniels> ajax: blocker ^^
 [20:08:57]  * daniels -> sleeps.
 [20:11:09]  <cworth> Hmmm... still looks like I failed though. I'm getting a module ABI of 3 for kbd and 2 for server. So I'll have to go find other source for keyboard/mouse than just master I guess.
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[20:12:47]  * cworth wonders how to find "version of xf86-input-keyboard to work with xserver-1.5". No help from "git tag -l".
 [20:14:50]  <cworth> The tar files in driver/individual for keyboard/mouse have version numbers up to 1.3 or so. No obvious correlation there either.
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[20:40:57]  <ajax> almost like splitting the drivers out was some kind of horrible sin that i've been regretting ever since
 [20:41:50]  <antrik> daniels: there is actually a free software company here in Berlin that has been doing quite some headhunting lately. not sure they are doing anything whith X, though...
 [20:42:13]  <antrik> (they are somehow into OpenMoko though, so not far from Nokia ;-) )
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[21:37:40]  <math_b> sigh... I had a repeatable hard lockup after a few minutes of X uptime, but no access to another machine to catch the crash. So I moved with the laptop, setup netconsole, gdb, drm's debug and all the stuff, and of course X now refuse to crash...
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[23:43:55]  <cworth> ajax: For video drivers, it makes a lot of sense.
 [23:57:00]  <reduz> oh, hooray! the product i was lead engineer for got 2nd place in techcrunch
 ----- [2008-09-11] -----
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[01:13:30]  * spstarr turns reduz into a widget for his toolkit ;)
 [01:15:32]  <reduz> I'm programming the object/widget/window stuff right now
 [01:15:44]  <reduz> I'm hoping i can achieve the same as Qt without a preprocessor
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[01:32:16]  <reduz> guess nothing C++ template black magic can't do
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[01:47:41]  <DrNick> that is correct, C++ templates are turing complete, there is nothing they can't do
 [02:02:58]  <math_b> I've finally found the reason of my X lookup...
 [02:03:24]  <math_b> hint: memtest86+
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[03:15:53]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[04:40:53]  <daniels> ajax: and yeah, i still think video drivers being separate makes sense.
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[05:08:23]  <johnflux> daniels: did you reply to me?  it scrolled off my history
 [05:11:45]  <daniels^ yeah, said they looked fine and i'd split/clean them up.
 [05:12:44]  <johnflux^ split in what way?  I had merged and group the patches in a way I thought you'd like
 [05:12:53]  <johnflux> but i'm not very used to submitting patches
 [05:13:16]  <johnflux> any advice/tips is/are always welcome
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[06:56:39]  <daniels> johnflux: sure
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[07:31:47]  <whot> daniels: sorry, what has ditz do do with anything? how do you want to use it?
 [07:40:04]  <daniels^ dunno, might be useful to use for input stuff so we don't keep forgetting? or not, i dunno.
 [07:41:40]  <whot> i'm writing almost everything that comes up down now, so while it isn't a issue tracker, grep practically makes it one :)
 [07:42:26]  <daniels> ooh, shiny.  do you feel like putting that on people.fd.o?
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[07:43:38]  <whot> eventually, just let me get back to .au first
 [07:43:52]  <daniels^ yeah, for sure.  still in .at, or transit, or?
 [07:45:24]  <whot^ flying out tomorrow, so I'll be back home on sunday
 [07:46:49]  <whot> btw. can you check http://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/xkb.html if that is correct please?
 [07:46:59]  <whot> if so, I'll polish it and post it on planet + wiki
 [07:50:47]  <daniels^ s/Options are extras added/& independent of the layout (e.g. control keys)/
 [07:52:16]  <daniels> also, i'd probably add that you can never ascribe any meaning to keycodes, only what you derive from the current mapping.  always start with keysyms and modifiers, and work your way down from there.
 [07:53:06]  <whot^ thx. i'll point the out more. modifiers are not yet part of it, that comes in part2, when ktscg is discussed
 [07:54:33]  <daniels> nod
 [07:55:51]  <whot> but the fundamentals are correct?
 [07:56:23]  <daniels> yeah, seem fine to me
 [07:57:42]  <whot> thx
 [07:57:54]  <daniels> thankyou
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[08:00:07]  <whot> meh, was mostly for me :) I started looking at it yesterday and decided I might as well write it down
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[09:21:55]  <JohnFlux2> hey all#
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[09:23:01]  <JohnFlux> is it fine to build X out-of-source directory?
 [09:23:13]  <JohnFlux> so build != source directory
 [09:27:39]  <jcristau> yes
 [09:27:47]  * jcristau does it all the time
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[09:28:24]  <JohnFlux> jcristau: just so I understand..   when you generate configure by using autogen.sh, is that generated into the source directory or the build directory?
 [09:28:38]  <JohnFlux> and ditto for generating Makefile and Makefile.am
 [09:28:42]  <JohnFlux> and ditto for generating Makefile from Makefile.am
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[09:30:18]  <jcristau> JohnFlux: configure and Makefile.in go in the source dir
 [09:30:23]  <jcristau> Makefile in the build dir
 [09:30:37]  <JohnFlux> thank you
[09:44:58]  <ssp> In radeon_driver.c it says:
 [09:45:03]  <ssp>     /*
 [09:45:03]  <ssp>      * note that these aren't really the CRTC limits, they're just
 [09:45:03]  <ssp>      * heuristics until we have a better memory manager.
 [09:45:03]  <ssp>      */
 [09:45:29]  <ssp> then it goes on to heuristically assign numbers to crtc_max_X/Y
 [09:46:10]  <ssp> I think that's wrong because xf86InitialConfiguration will already pick a reasonable value for xf86CrtcSetSizeRange() - there is no need for driver heuristics
 [09:46:31]  <ssp> So I think it should just set the size range to whatever the crtc limits are. Does anyone know the actual values?
 [09:47:00]  <ajax> depends on whether your front buffer is tiled
 [09:47:24]  <ssp> Ah, so info->MaxSurfaceWidth would be a resonable setting
 [09:47:33]  <ajax> 3968 if it is.  otherwise i think it's 8k for r500+ and 4k for previous
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[09:48:43]  <ssp> Cool, I'll patch it to do something like that in Fedora then
 [09:48:53]  <ajax> ta
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[10:19:36]  <tjaalton> whot: btw, nowadays you should use the evdev ruleset instead of model ;)
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[10:19:56]  <dberkholz> ajax: is xinit not going to be part of the katamari? i remember something being mentioned a while back..
 [10:20:00]  <tjaalton> whot: referring to xkb.html
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[10:21:50]  <ajax> dberkholz: i'd have to check what i decided, but i think i decided that it wouldn't be included
 [10:22:18]  <dberkholz^ the presumption then is that normal people running X will just all use a *dm?
 [10:22:28]  <dberkholz> or is there something else i'm missing
 [10:22:45]  <ajax> pretty much.
 [10:22:49]  <dberkholz> ok
 [10:23:07]  <dberkholz> i might start pushing our stuff into xinit if nobody else uses it anymore
 [10:24:31]  <ajax> i wouldn't say "nobody uses it".  i mean, i'll be stuck shipping it until heat death.
 [10:24:43]  <ajax> X.org just doesn't want to encourage people to use it if they don't have to
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[10:27:28]  <daniels> debian also have a hell of a lot of xinit changes.
 [10:27:38]  <dberkholz> everybody does
 [10:27:53]  <dberkholz> RH forked off a bunch of their scripts probably 10 years ago
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[10:30:53]  <ajax> i wonder if that's long ago enough that it's not even mharris' fault
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[10:31:42]  <dberkholz> ajax: i think it is his, but i wouldn't blame him. it was just impossible to get stuff into xf86
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[10:38:26]  <geaaru> hi, i'm try to install xorg-server-1.5.0 but i have a problem when try to compile glxdri2.c for an error with __DRI_LOADER __DRI_LOADER_VERSION symbol
 [10:38:31]  <geaaru> where are defined?
 [10:38:40]  <geaaru> thanks in advance
 [10:43:17]  <jcristau^ --disable-dri2
 [10:44:18]  <geaaru> seems already disable on ebuild .... i will check
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[10:49:39]  <geaaru> but from makefile.in under glx directory glxdri2.c file is relative to glxdri2.la library but seems that there aren't check about is dri2 is enabled or disabled
 [10:50:44]  <JohnFlux> there were some recent fixes for disabling dri2 - maybe the ebuild doesn't have a new enough version or something?
 [10:51:09]  <dr-xorg> geaaru: I've had similar problems... do you build against libdrm-2.3.1 ?
 [10:51:47]  <geaaru^ no, i have still git version (libdrm-9999)
 [10:52:06]  <dr-xorg> *yikes*  whatever that version may be :)
 [10:52:06]  <geaaru> i need downgrade or upgrade to libdrm-2.3.1?
 [10:52:26]  <dr-xorg> see above, I don't know this version number (if it is one)
 [10:52:37]  <geaaru> seven days ago version :)
 [10:52:50]  <dr-xorg> but my server-1.5/mesa-7.1 build ran fine with libdrm-2.3.1
 [10:53:05]  <geaaru> ok i try, thanks
 [10:53:20]  <dr-xorg> ^^ then it's kind of a downgrade..
 [10:53:20]  <dr-xorg> but a good one ;-)
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[11:03:06]  <MrCooper> the symbols mentioned sound like Mesa though, not libdrm
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[11:07:54]  <geaaru> i installed libdrm-2.3.1... and xorg-server is on compilation... i will something soon i problem is resolved or not
 [11:08:09]  <geaaru> *i will said you
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[11:09:39]  <JohnFlux> gmansi: s/said/tell/
 [11:11:00]  <dr-xorg> MrCooper:  yes, but the whole dri2 thing is not taken ito consideration if the libdrm doesn't suffice, as far as I understood ...
 [11:11:01]  <dr-xorg> (as --disable-dri2 doesn't .. ermm  disable dri2, unfortunately..)
 [11:11:41]  <dberkholz> hmm, xorg-server-9999 needs some serious updates.
 [11:12:18]  <dberkholz> looks like it doesn't explicitly disable dri2, although 1.5.0 does
 [11:14:13]  <geaaru> nothings, doesn't work with libdrm-2.3.1
 [11:14:27]  <geaaru> i have always error on glxdri2.c
 [11:14:35]  <geaaru> row 379
 [11:14:52]  <geaaru> where is defined __DRI_LOADER?
 [11:14:57]  <geaaru> on mesa library?
 [11:15:05]  <dr-xorg> hmnmmm... you did rebuild mesa after libdrm-2.3.1 was installed ?
 [11:15:26]  <dr-xorg> and you use mesa-7.1?
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[11:16:01]  <geaaru> 1. no :) sorry, i try
 [11:16:29]  <dr-xorg> it's a bit connected all that ... just a bit ;-)
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[11:48:57]  <geaaru> xorg-server compiled ! :) thanks at all :)
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[12:08:50]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: it works in Lenny and Intrepid.  Hardy to be tested sometimes tomorrow.
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[12:09:44]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: however, there's some really weird mouse pointer issues on Lenny.  if I switch vcons and come back, the traditional X is still in the middle, in addition to whatever pointer glyph is used in debian by default.
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[12:10:45]  <CosmicPenguin> What toolkit?
 [12:10:53]  <CosmicPenguin> I'm not seeing that on my lenny box
 [12:11:31]  <CosmicPenguin> gnome
 [12:15:16]  <CosmicPenguin> Q-FUNK: an alpha cursor thing, maybe?
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[12:25:13]  <Q-FUNK> it's on gnome
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[12:29:28]  <CosmicPenguin> vga on the other consoles, or fb?
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[12:48:11]  <Q-FUNK> fb, afaik
 [12:48:14]  <Q-FUNK> lxfb
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[12:54:45]  <CosmicPenguin> huh - wierd
 [13:01:22]  <dberkholz> i think this time around, i'm going to make our xorg-x11 package be consistent with module-list.txt
 [13:01:26]  <dberkholz> pull in a few more things
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[13:16:02]  <dberkholz> ajax: any idea when xorg-docs-1.5 will happen, since it's in the module list? is there anything you need help with?
 [13:17:07]  <ajax> uh, doing it?  i'm kind of busy this week.
 [13:17:13]  <ajax> yay f10 beta
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[14:42:20]  <Q-FUNK> CosmicPenguin: ok, it also works with Hardy.
 [14:43:12]  <Q-FUNK> and, as I said, Lenny and Intrepid both show their own weird bugs.  Lennys keeps the defualt X pointer glyph while the real one floats around with the mouse.
 [14:43:36]  <Q-FUNK> while intrepid has this initial artefact where the pointer apears, when first launching the server.
 [14:44:07]  <Q-FUNK> ok, I'm heading home here
 [14:44:20]  <Q-FUNK> gotta be back early tomorrow for that customer demo
 [14:44:22]  <Q-FUNK> ciao!
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[14:54:56]  <erikg> is there a straightforward way to tell if a given window is visible from the application owning that window?
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[15:07:50]  <erikg> crickets
 [15:09:15]  <ajax> "visible from" ?
 [15:09:42]  <cjb> (tell if window is visible) (from the application owning that window), I think
 [15:14:03]  <ajax> well, yes, in that you get VisibilityNotify events.
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[15:46:58]  <daniels> ajax: shit.  xkeyboard-config.
 [15:46:59]  <daniels> svu: ping
 [15:48:44]  <svu^ pong
 [15:49:01]  <daniels^ what's an appropriate xk-c release to use for 7.4? 7.4's evdev_drv still uses base as the ruleset.
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[15:49:40]  <daniels> svu: also, the xkb list is really, really weird.  would hosting it as xkeyboard-config@lists.x.o be useful?
 [15:50:04]  <daniels> it breaks threading rather badly, and honestly, it took me about six months to subscribe.
 [15:50:42]  <erikg> ajax: thank you
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[15:52:16]  <svu> daniels, new release of xk-c will be at the end of September. I think that one
 [15:52:29]  <daniels^ er, assuming 7.4 is meant to release now ...
 [15:52:33]  <daniels> is the current one okay?
 [15:52:57]  <svu^ about the maillist... I will think of it. I am very conservative about these things...
 [15:53:11]  <jg> ajax, erikg: I have vague memories of there being some issues in the protocol that made it painful to figure out visibility completely correctly, though still possible to do....
 [15:53:13]  <daniels> svu: sure, np
 [15:53:14]  <svu^ the current one does not have evdev ruleset. If you remember, it was added quite recently
 [15:53:52]  <daniels> jg: and, given composite, the only real sane thing to do is to allow the WM to specify the window's clip.  pessimistically, that clip is the whole window.
 [15:54:06]  <svu^ http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig/ReleaseSchedule
 [15:54:15]  <daniels^ yeah, sure.  just thinking if there's any urgent bugfixes or whatever that xk-c in 7.4 should have.
 [15:54:15]  <svu> 4 days till freeze
 [15:54:23]  <svu> daniels, ok
 [15:55:14]  <daniels> even though it's not really part of x.org, people still need xk-c, so plonk a version of that in our release (same with libdrm, mesa, etc).
 [15:55:19]  <daniels> though i don't know if mesa is still in extras/?
 [15:56:06]  <daniels> oh wait, not since 7.2.  nice!
 [15:56:15]  <ajax> it probably should have been there in 7.3
 [15:56:19]  <ajax> now, however.
 [15:56:37]  <svu> does xorg release  have stable period?
 [15:57:03]  <daniels^ we don't tend to issue .1 releases.
 [15:57:44]  <daniels> the theory being that people can pick what they like out of the module updates.  doing .1 wouldn't be at all a bad thing though, what with -ati, -intel and -evdev as well as xserver tending to have stable branches.
 [15:57:47]  <svu> if xorg would have stable interval between releases, I could adjust xk-c
[15:58:34]  <daniels> heh.  well, as the only person to have declared any interest in doing 7.5's release, april 2009.
 [15:59:26]  <daniels> svu: looks good, congrats on having a stable release schedule
 [16:00:03]  <svu^ somehow I feel sarcazm ;)
 [16:00:06]  <ajax> i'm probably going to refuse to be head release wrangler after 7.4
 [16:00:39]  <daniels> svu: no, seriously.
 [16:01:03]  <daniels> ajax: fair.  i will need some help through 2008 though, but given server 1.6, this suddenly seems very doable.
 [16:01:10]  <svu^ ok:) I just decided to organize my life somehow. And never ask question "when" any more:)
 [16:01:21]  <daniels> ajax: so if you ever feel like it after recovering, give us a shout.
 [16:01:23]  <daniels> svu: heh
 [16:01:39]  <alanc> I may be able to work on 7.5 in March/April too
 [16:01:43]  <ajax> daniels: helping is one thing.  superheroing is quite another.
 [16:01:58]  <ajax> i'm done trying to play superhero on that front
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[16:02:25]  <svu> daniels, BTW, did you see the project of my google-student? The keyboard layout editor
 [16:02:30]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, dude, don't kill yourself.
 [16:02:54]  <daniels> i'm going to commit to being the most super of heroes if necessary, but i definitely like the idea of an army of heroes.
 [16:02:57]  * svu writes down: "play superhero = kill yourself"
 [16:03:13]  <daniels> hopefully this year we don't get stuck in the situation where everyone's burnout/work schedules mean we only ever have one person hacking on shit.
 [16:03:36]  <daniels> svu: of simos? yeah.  i was really hoping to meet him at xds, but couldn't go in the end. :( i'm indebted to him for sorting out gnome compose tables.
 [16:03:39]  <daniels> s/gnome/gtk/
 [16:03:55]  <alanc> the xkb layout editor did look cool
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[16:04:00]  <svu> daniels, yes, he hoped to see you too
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[16:04:34]  <svu> alanc, but there is some work to do still. I hope he won't lose the drive
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[16:06:06]  * svu would attend xds, if he'd have EU passport - or xds happens in Ireland
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[16:08:28]  <daniels> svu: no X conference in europe until 2009
 [16:08:33]  <daniels> er, until 2010, sorry
 [16:08:34]  <alanc> the plan announced for next year was Eastern Hemisphere X meeting @ FOSDEM in Brussels in spring, Western Hemisphere X meeting @ Intel in Portland in September
 [16:08:48]  <daniels> yeah, there'll still be large contingents at fosdem and guadec, i'm sure
 [16:09:06]  <daniels> and definitely a huge contingent at lca, be there or be square
 [16:09:26]  <daniels> speaking of which, really hope the price on my .fi -> .au flight drops before i have to book it ...
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[16:22:03]  <papillon81> hi. with an xorg git version from yesterday, i'm seeing segfaults. are you aware of this? if not i'll try to get some more details
 [16:24:44]  <daniels> right, that's it.  i'm doomed.
 [16:24:56]  <daniels> papillon81: no, having a log with backtrace would be awesome.
 [16:25:08]  <papillon81> here is what i get on the console:  *** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/X: realloc(): invalid next size: 0x102c29a8
 [16:25:24]  <papillon81> it's just the first line. sorry. i'm trying to get more of it
 [16:27:14]  <daniels> cool, smashed arena.
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[16:53:35]  <papillon81> nevermind. this looks like a KDE issue
 [17:02:18]  <stillunknown> If the remnants of span based accessors in the mi code are considered outdated, what would the replacement be (considering it's mi code)?
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[17:09:16]  <stillunknown> Since everything goes to FillSpans at some point.
 [17:09:22]  <stillunknown> (and GetSpans)
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[18:00:48]  <svu> daniels, I'll be retired by then:)
 [18:03:36]  <daniels^ heh
 [18:08:24]  <svu^ did you ever go to guadec?
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[18:12:52]  <daniels> svu: no, not guadec either, sadly (just needed a break)
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[18:43:14]  <dberkholz> ironically, i'll probably have just left oregon in september
 [18:44:01]  <daniels> oh? where are you going?
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[20:57:59]  <anholt> ajax: where was the xtrans fix for os.c OPEN_MAX complaints?
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[21:38:13]  <cworth> anholt: Ah, I was wondering that myself...
 [21:39:59]  <cworth> keithp: So -ignoreABI was useful for me. Your idea of finding input modules next to xserver-1.5 didn't work since there doesn't appear to be any such directory containing those yet, (there's no X11R7.4 yet).
 [21:42:03]  <cworth> (Nor did I track down why building master of xf86-input-keyboard against xserver-1.5 headers resulted in an ABI mismatch.)
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[22:16:24]  <npmccallum> ajax: ping
 [22:22:13]  <jcristau> cworth: whatever's in debian experimental should work with 1.5. and there's http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/preview-X11R7.4/src/everything/
 [22:23:44]  <cworth^ Ahah! I was looking for that preview, but on ftp.x.org and similar, (and it was either a broken link or non-existent there).
 [22:23:58]  <cworth> So, thanks.
 [22:24:22]  <jcristau> np
 [22:25:20]  <cworth> ftp://ftp.freedesktop.org/pub/xorg/ is what has the broken link
 [22:25:35]  <cworth> ftp://ftp.x.org/pub/ as well
 [22:25:46]  <cworth> (Both linked to from the www.x.org page.)
 [22:27:14]  <cworth> http://ftp.x.org/pub/ doesn't have it at all (also linked to from the web page but as http://www.x.org/pub)
 [22:27:53]  <cworth> I maybe even found the one functional link from the web page at:
 [22:27:55]  <cworth> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/preview-X11R7.4/
 [22:28:23]  <jcristau> lrwxrwxrwx   1 ajax    xorg    8 2008-09-03 16:18 preview-X11R7.4 -> .X11R7.4
 [22:28:33]  <cworth> But it says "7.3" prominently, so that might have misled me.
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[23:56:05]  <reduz> I finally got tired of programming toolkit X11 backend, so i guess i'll do something else for some days
 [23:56:24]  <reduz> i think I'm almost done and I still have a lot of questions :(
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[00:57:05]  <spstarr> in X, the toolkit controls you ;p
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[03:13:43]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[10:24:34]  <tjaalton> how to change the keyboard repeat rate when using evdev? xset doesn't seem to work
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[11:00:47]  <gw280> how do I define a new RandR screen size on the fly in an Xserver?
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[11:03:44]  <JohnFlux> gw280: dunno, but have you looked at the xrandr  program?
 [11:03:59]  <gw280^ not yet
 [11:04:09]  <JohnFlux^ or krandrtray for a little gui app that sits in the systray
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[11:04:32]  <gw280> JohnFlux: they can't add modes though
 [11:04:41]  <gw280> or rather, add screen sizes
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[11:05:20]  <JohnFlux> gw280: okay.  well have a look at xrandr first - they might help you
 [11:06:28]  <gw280> I can already do resizing, but the available screen sizes need to be pre-defined
 [11:06:33]  <gw280> I'm trying to get rid of that requirement
 [11:08:28]  <JohnFlux> cool
 [11:08:50]  <gw280> NX can do it
 [11:08:56]  <gw280> I'm trying to get VNC to do it
 [11:11:06]  <zeq> xrandr --addmode to add a predefined mode, and --newmode to define a new mode
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[11:13:20]  <gw280> hrm
 [11:16:18]  <zeq> predefined modes are either built-in, from EDID, or defined in xorg.conf
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[11:24:26]  <npmccallum> ajax: ping
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[11:25:26]  <ajax> hey
 [11:29:09]  <npmccallum^ two things
 [11:29:24]  <npmccallum> 1. What do I need to do to get my patch committed to xorg-server?
 [11:30:39]  <npmccallum> 2. In rawhide, on Intel hw, any kernel past 2.6.27-0.314.rc5.git9.fc10.x86_64 results in X so slow it is unusable
 [11:31:58]  <ajax> haven't looked at the latest round of your patch.  if it's like what i remember, i'd like to clean it up a bit so the output is less noisy, but that's all that's in the way really
 [11:32:05]  <zeq> npmccallum: do you also get rendering "stuck" until you move the mouse or use the keyboard?
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[11:32:09]  <ajax> for the other, yes, known bug, i'm fighting intel kit today
 [11:32:25]  <npmccallum> zeq: yes
 [11:32:48]  <npmccallum> ajax: you mean disabling basically all output except the modalias?
 [11:33:10]  <zeq> I had the exact same thing happen when I merged vblank-rework into Eric's drm-gem-merge
 [11:33:46]  <npmccallum> Does this fix it? -- * Fri Sep 12 2008 Dave Airlie <airlied@redhat.com> 7.2-0.2- intel stop vbl default for now
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[11:34:15]  <ajax> npmccallum: yes (re output)
 [11:34:21]  <ajax> the vbl thing might help?  might not.
 [11:34:24]  <ajax> dunno tbh
 [11:34:34]  <npmccallum> ok
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[11:34:48]  <ajax> when i say "fighting today" i mean "just dug out the thinkpad, have yet to apply power to it"
 [11:35:14]  <npmccallum> heh, are you one of the special people that got the intel thinkpads with displays > 1024x768? :)
 [11:35:16]  <zeq> I merged the  vblank rework code to see if it would fix sync to vblank which wasn't working at the time.
 [11:35:39]  <zeq> I was getting too many vblank interrupts
 [11:35:45]  <npmccallum> generally speaking, the intel stuff on rawhide has been painful as of late
 [11:35:55]  <npmccallum> slow, no opengl, etc
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[11:37:05]  <zeq> I was working from Eric's drm-gem-merge, but moved to rawhide-intel in the hope it work better (also drm-gem-merge stopped working with the latest changes to libdrm)
 [11:39:55]  <zeq> could the interrupt types be getting mixed up somehow?
 [11:44:43]  <npmccallum> ajax: assuming we get the patch ok'd for trunk, do you think this patch could make it into any 1.5.1 release?
 [11:44:57]  <ajax> sure
 [11:45:07]  <npmccallum^ considering its small, self-contained, and I could really use the feature in distros by default? :)
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[12:36:57]  <stillunknown> cworth: ping
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[12:38:35]  <stillunknown> I suppose i could ask in general, has anyone noticed that the offscreen part of render_bench takes much longer than the non offscreen.
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[12:38:56]  <stillunknown> (i'm running with automatic redirection, so stuff goes offscreen anyway)
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[12:39:06]  <tjaalton> anyone? how to set the repeat rate when evdev is used, 'xset are $foo' doesn't work
 [12:40:43]  <npmccallum> ajax: is there a way to print to standard out rather than standard error?
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[13:20:44]  <stillunknown> hmm, render_bench to an offscreen surface generates an insane amount of composite calls
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[13:24:09]  <stillunknown> Like 25000 as oposed to the 10 you get for rendering to a window.
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[13:54:32]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: ping
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[13:54:50]  <MrCooper> pong?
 [13:55:11]  <stillunknown> I saw something in exaComposite that worries me
 [13:55:19]  <stillunknown> if (pExaScr->info->PrepareComposite &&
 [13:55:19]  <stillunknown> !pSrc->alphaMap && (!pMask || !pMask->alphaMap) && !pDst->alphaMap)
 [13:55:46]  <stillunknown> If i'm reading that correctly, not having a mask is a prerequisite for acceleration.
 [13:56:26]  <MrCooper> no, only pMask->alphaMap is a problem
 [13:56:56]  <stillunknown> When i pasted it i realised i missed one of the inversions.
 [13:59:07]  <MrCooper> :)
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[13:59:43]  <stillunknown> Now that i've got your attention, is it normal that a single CompositePicture to an offscreen pixmap creates 20000 Composite calls?
 [14:00:41]  <stillunknown> @MrCooper
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[14:02:49]  <ajax> when you say "Composite call", do you mean calls to exaComposite, or calls to the driver's Composite hook?
 [14:03:01]  <npmccallum^ is there a way to print to standard out rather than standard error?
 [14:03:15]  <MrCooper> don't think so - are you sure render_bench doesn't just emit more Composite calls in the offscreen case?
 [14:03:27]  <ajax> npmccallum: not that i'm aware of, but i'd have to look to be sure
 [14:03:35]  <stillunknown^ driver hook calls
 [14:03:52]  <ajax> oh, well then.
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[14:04:09]  <ajax> if you've got a non-trivial picture clip we'll call the driver hook once per rect in the clip region.
 [14:04:27]  <stillunknown> These calls are mostly 1 composite per prepare.
 [14:05:02]  <MrCooper^ 20000 driver hook calls per exaComposite call?
 [14:05:19]  <stillunknown> Maybe i should tell what i did.
 [14:06:13]  <stillunknown> I dumped all the prepare and finish calls into the xlog, copied log before, ran render_bench with only test active (and /dev/nulled ofcource), then copied again
 [14:06:17]  <stillunknown> diffed that result
 [14:08:12]  <stillunknown> The render to window case produced far fewer calls.
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[14:18:27]  <MrCooper> stillunknown: have you verified that the number of exaComposite calls doesn't match the application Composite calls?
 [14:19:28]  <stillunknown> No, i haven't.
 [14:20:20]  <stillunknown> Maybe you could run render_bench and check the normal vs pixmap versions.
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[14:25:03]  <stillunknown> I guess i'll just write it off as some strange problem, as real life applications don't show this problem.
 [14:28:11]  <MrCooper> you haven't even verified there's a problem at all
 [14:29:20]  <stillunknown> I guess i shouldn't have said problem.
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[14:39:47]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: i seem to have been wrong about the amount of interations
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[14:40:09]  <stillunknown> *iterations
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[14:41:10]  <npmccallum> ajax: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-September/038486.html
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[14:53:34]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: sorry for wasting your time
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[15:29:52]  <cworth> So I know DRI2 is all getting reinvented right now and all. But I'm still wondering if it's possible to build xserver 1.5 with various released tar files yet or not.
 [15:30:53]  * cworth is currently hitting this problem trying to build Mesa 7.1 which xserver 1.5 wants:
 [15:30:55]  <cworth> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg/31545
 [15:32:49]  <dberkholz^ i'm doing it... but check out idr's patch on mesa3d-dev to drop dri2 from mesa
 [15:33:39]  <dberkholz> alternately, try installing dri2proto 1.1
 [15:33:45]  <cworth^ Thanks.
 [15:34:03]  <cworth> I did install dri2proto 1.1, but didn't succeed that way.
 [15:34:11]  <cworth> I'll try idr's patch now.
 [15:36:13]  <dberkholz> huh. wfm
 [15:37:50]  <cworth^ OK, maybe it's just me then. :-(
 [15:41:25]  <cworth> Ah, looks like I may have accidentally changed my PKG_CONFIG_PATH between modules. Thanks for helping me look closer.
 [15:41:45]  <dberkholz^ good to hear
 [15:42:00]  <dberkholz> i may not do much xorg hacking, but i can sure as hell build it 10 ways from sunday
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[15:51:04]  <cworth> dberkholz: I hack drivers (and one could say "professionally", but only in the limited financial sense I think), but I only succeed at building it on good days.
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[19:20:49]  <reduz> oh yeah, C++ variants are cool
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[20:10:06]  <Ox032F> hi, is there a way to record all key strokes in order to make a statistic? Or is there even a tool out there allready?
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[21:57:12]  <raster> booyah
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[22:36:37]  <vtorri> xorg 7.4 not released yet ?
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[22:37:30]  <df00z> Has anyone ever built DRM?  I can't get it to build the i915 module, i'm on freaking 2.6.27 rc 5
 [22:37:34]  <df00z> it should build
 [22:38:01]  <df00z> I tried passing linuxdir to the make command
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[22:57:46]  <df00z> is anyone around?!
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[23:25:21]  <df00z> ah..need a GEM patched kernel
 [23:27:15]  <reduz> not much, I'm just making music
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[01:50:34]  <DrNick> god I hate RANDR
 [01:51:28]  <DrNick> stop locking up my display while my screen flickers black for 30 seconds straight
 [02:32:23]  <tjaalton> hate gtk instead
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[02:48:40]  <DrNick> gtk doesn't lock up my X server for 30 seconds straight
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[05:02:57]  <lkro> Hi all, I've got some problem compiling latest (git) xserver. File os/osdep.h defines MAXSOCKS based on OPEN_MAX. And when OPEN_MAX (defined eralier in <X11/Xtrans/Xtransint.h>) is not comparable it's compilation error.
 [05:03:15]  <lkro> Following patch works for me:
 [05:03:24]  <lkro> http://pastebin.ca/raw/1201674
 [05:06:11]  <MrCooper^ I think you need Xtrans Git
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[05:10:47]  <lkro> MrCooper: Yeah, last commit really (just checked). Well, since it (xserver) works well with patch I'll pass another build right now (note to self: rebuild Xtrans). ;)
 [05:12:41]  <lkro> thx.
 [05:13:33]  <MrCooper> np
 [05:14:42]  <MrCooper> I guess the patch might still make sense for building against older Xtrans
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[13:01:19]  <reduz> QUESTION: How do I tell X11 that i have a dirty region? (so i can get updates on it if not occluded)
 [13:10:43]  <reduz> i mean, i could redraw myself, but I'm sure it can be wiser to ask the server first, in case my window is obscured
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[13:11:24]  <daniels> i wouldn't really bother
 [13:11:24]  <daniels> compositing man
 [13:11:46]  <daniels> agers just mean you have to redraw everything right now, a proto limitation we should fix
 [13:14:12]  <reduz> well, if there is compositing i guess X will tell me to redraw that area anyway, right?
 [13:14:38]  <reduz> also I'm sure there is a lot of people usin X11 that doesn't have access to compositing
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[13:15:09]  <reduz> so that's why i ask, if there is any way to tell the X server that I have a dirty region
 [13:15:18]  <reduz> (so it tells me to redraw in an expose event)
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[13:24:23]  <reduz> ahh i see
 [13:24:25]  <reduz> XClearArea
 [13:27:49]  <daniels> right
 [13:28:10]  <daniels> the problem is that if you're composited and hidden behind that window, then X tells you that your whole window is invisible
 [13:28:18]  <daniels> but what if the window in front is transparent?
 [13:29:50]  <reduz> i'd figure X composited would just ask me to redraw always?
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[13:32:07]  <daniels> well, not at the moment, no
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[13:32:26]  <daniels> so just pretend you're always unclipped, for the moment, or compix users will hate you
 [13:32:42]  <reduz> can i detect i'm running in composited mode?
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[13:33:09]  <daniels> not really, no
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[13:35:19]  <reduz> ok, guess i'll make that the default behavior
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[13:59:34]  <reduz> hmm.. proper reflow on container based toolkits is more difficult than it seems
 [13:59:42]  <reduz> specially when handling height4width
 [14:04:49]  <daniels> yeah, that's what we've been telling you for the last few days ...
 [14:07:28]  <reduz> seems like a great challenge, though
 [14:07:41]  <daniels> ... yeah
 [14:08:18]  <reduz> qt has a lot of code hacked in the containers to handle height4width
 [14:09:29]  <reduz> i'm thinking that since width4height needs the final width, I could simply run the reflow algorithm twice, first with width4height disabled, and then enabled, as the widths will not change
 [14:10:32]  <reduz> that will allow me to simplify a lot the container code, and since the reflow is pretty quick anyway (does minimum size caching before the recursive traverse), it should be fine
 [14:10:51]  <reduz> and i don't even have to support width4height in the containers
 [14:10:53]  <reduz> well, hope it works
 [14:10:58]  <daniels> and is quick :)
 [14:11:06]  <reduz> heh yeah
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[14:57:12]  <reduz> daniels, the previous version of the reflow algorithm i made ran fine on a nintendo DS (60mhz ARM), but didn't have height for width support. So I'm optimistic so far
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[18:41:45]  <df00z> cworth: ping
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[09:51:40]  <SLeezy_Laptop> hey all i am trying to write a adaptor to change the input on my ps2 keyboard so i can modify the linux g15 drivers to pick up this modified input as additional g keys
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[11:12:13]  <df00z> Hey, when receving XEvent Keypress events, are they supposed to repeat?
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[12:34:00]  <airlied> jcristau: I pushed a different fix to that glint, just using a macro instead.
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[12:35:20]  <jcristau> airlied: thanks
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[13:53:45]  <spstarr_desk> erm
 [13:53:53]  <spstarr_desk> [mi] EQ overflowing. The server is probably stuck in an infinite loop.
 [13:53:54]  <spstarr_desk> [mi] mieqEnequeue: out-of-order valuator event; dropping.
 [13:54:00]  <spstarr_desk> is VT switching broken with 1.5.0?
 [13:54:04]  <spstarr_desk> I'm getting badness all over the place
 [13:54:13]  <spstarr_desk> #3  0x081b161b in XkbDDXSwitchScreen (dev=0x8ecf208, key=68 'D', act=0x5606)                
[13:54:13]  <spstarr_desk>     at xkbVT.c:55      
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[14:02:57]  <spstarr_desk> thats not good ;/
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[14:07:00]  <Primer> Hi, I know this is a developer channel, but #xorg is useless. I'm experiencing an odd issue where, while using a KVM (keyboard-video-mouse, not kernel virtualization), and having the detection of the mouse over KVM run an xset command to set the mouse acceleration, I eventually am unable to spawn more X programs due to some limitation
 [14:07:33]  <Primer> With "maximum number of clients reached"
 [14:07:40]  <Primer> as the error message
 [14:08:19]  <Primer> There are no xset processes running, nor any other X programs that could account for this
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[20:41:16]  <whot> spstarr_desk: can you pastebin your xorg.log please?
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[21:46:23]  <spstarr> whot: lemme see
 [21:47:03]  <spstarr> those errors came with composite enabled,
 [21:47:19]  <spstarr> I do no see this when VT switch w/ composite not enabled in kwin
 [21:47:31]  <spstarr> but the touchpad being sluggish happens always now
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[22:11:41]  <whot> spstarr: the EQ overflowing is almost always the rendering taking too long
 [22:14:29]  <spstarr> which would be probably due to the issues I'm having with GLX  <-> DRI
 [22:14:45]  <spstarr> since i have big problems with enabling composite with r300 and kwin
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[22:14:58]  <spstarr> that aside, the touchpad issue is something else
 [22:15:09]  <spstarr> i have some options in my xorg conf for the synaptics
[22:15:17]  <spstarr> unless i dont need them anymore?
 [22:15:52]  <whot^ depends. In theory, synaptics should scale accel now. in practice theory doesn't always work
 [22:17:44]  <spstarr> well right now, I use EXA no composite
[22:17:51]  <spstarr> the touchpad is sluggish in response
 [22:18:20]  <spstarr> or non-response altogether
 [22:19:02]  <spstarr> do i need
 [22:19:02]  <spstarr>         Option      "SendCoreEvents"    "true"
 [22:19:05]  <spstarr> all these options still?
 [22:19:15]  <whot> this one is implied
 [22:19:16]  <spstarr> TapButton1, 2, 3
 [22:19:26]  <whot> on by default
 [22:19:30]  <spstarr> and should I use:
 [22:19:31]  <spstarr>         Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
 [22:19:31]  <spstarr>         Option      "Protocol" "auto-dev"
 [22:19:36]  <spstarr> or this is bad
 [22:19:55]  <spstarr> since the real mouse is using /dev/input/mice
 [22:20:00]  <spstarr> unless this is causing a conflict
 [22:20:28]  <whot> just leave the auto-dev
 [22:21:00]  <spstarr> ok dropping device line
 [22:21:41]  <spstarr> restarting X..brb
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[22:24:34]  <spstarr> no go
 [22:24:36]  <spstarr> same thing
 [22:24:46]  <spstarr> --) Synaptics Touchpad auto-dev sets device to /dev/input/event5
 [22:24:48]  <spstarr> (II) Synaptics Touchpad: x-axis range 1472 - 5472
 [22:24:50]  <spstarr> (II) Synaptics Touchpad: y-axis range 1408 - 4448
 [22:25:08]  <spstarr> (WW) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad can't grab event device, errno=16
 [22:26:41]  <whot^ can you give me a full log please
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[22:26:49]  <spstarr> lemme put the Xorglog..
 [22:27:09]  <spstarr> whot: http://www.sh0n.net/spstarr/Xorg.0.log
 [22:27:48]  <spstarr> one moment
 [22:28:57]  <whot^ that's fine. it gets added once for the config, once through HAL. the HAL one fails because the xorg.conf one is there already
 [22:29:16]  <spstarr> I'm reinstalling my build of X server since i have a patch from MrCooper i was trying
 [22:29:48]  <whot^ do you have the "Configured Mouse" with the evdev driver?
 [22:29:53]  <spstarr> yes
 [22:30:30]  <whot^ ah. that'd explain why it fails then. remove it, or switch it to mouse. either way won't have any effect on your server but the error from the log is gone
 [22:31:21]  <spstarr> but is that why the touchpad is not responding repeatedly?
 [22:31:33]  <whot^ no. but one question:
 [22:31:50]  <whot> sluggish == pointer not moving or apps not responding to events?
 [22:31:59]  <spstarr> not responding to taps properly
 [22:32:10]  <spstarr> ie, i have to tap several times for it to 'click' if it even does
 [22:32:29]  <whot> but movement is ok? and apps highlight appropriately?
 [22:32:34]  <spstarr> movement is just fine
 [22:32:47]  <spstarr> i just dont get tapping consistently now
 [22:33:03]  <ajax> that's fine, tap to click is the work of satan
 [22:33:10]  <whot^ agreed
 [22:33:18]  <spstarr+ my click button is depressed on the laptop its so abused
 [22:33:25]  <spstarr> tapping saves my button from being damaged more
 [22:33:39]  <whot^ add Option "SHMConfig" "true", then restart and run synclient -l
 [22:33:45]  <spstarr> got that now
 [22:33:53]  <spstarr> synclient -l lists stuff
 [22:34:08]  <spstarr> any value you want from that?
 [22:34:13]  <whot^ then tweak around with MaxTapTime, MaxTapMove, etc until it works. it might just be some setting not being good enough
 [22:34:32]  <whot> btw. single-click or double-click broken? or both?
 [22:34:44]  <spstarr>     MaxTapTime              = 180       
[22:34:44]  <spstarr>     MaxTapMove              = 25    
[22:34:45]  <spstarr> both
 [22:35:14]  <whot^ try increasing move
 [22:35:38]  <spstarr> whats that option refer to?
 [22:35:59]  <whot> maximum movement of a finger to detect tap
 [22:36:28]  <ajax> if that's the motion delta before the tap is interpreted as a motion event, it should probably scale with the domain of the touchpad coords
 [22:36:35]  <ajax> (and probably doesn't)
 [22:37:06]  <whot^ it doesn't, currently, but it should. getting some sensible defaults for a real synaptics would be nice.
 [22:37:15]  <whot> mine is an appletouch, which has different ranges
 [22:37:16]  <spstarr> adjusting that seems to work better
 [22:37:24]  <spstarr> I'm using 100 now
 [22:38:05]  <spstarr> there is a delay from the tap to the menu popping up
 [22:38:18]  <whot^ probably double-tap timeout
 [22:39:21]  <spstarr> i see
 [22:39:38]  <ajax> whot: my thinkpad has a real synaptics
 [22:39:44]  <spstarr> setting MaxTapMove to 200 really makes things reliable
 [22:40:15]  <spstarr> whot: are all those options respected in Xorg.conf?
 [22:40:23]  <ajax> of course, i turn ttc off, because i'm a sane person with functional hardware.
 [22:40:30]  <whot> hehe
 [22:40:39]  <spstarr> added to config
 [22:40:42]  <whot^ yes
 [22:40:50]  <spstarr> thanks my touch button thanks you
[22:41:45]  <spstarr> plus, ttc is quiet, i dont have to be distracted with the clicking sound
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[04:41:06]  <AStorm> hello
 [04:41:32]  <AStorm> is there by chance some api with which I can pick which modifiers are affected by double-sticking (caps) of AccessX?
 [04:41:55]  <AStorm> say, I want ctrl, alt, super, hyper to be exempt from that
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[05:06:53]  <whot> AStorm: nope, looks like SlowKeys is a global setting
 [05:07:14]  <AStorm> StickyKeys, not SlowKeys :)
 [05:07:30]  <AStorm> so, I propose and extension of that extension ;)
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[05:11:01]  <AStorm> I'm also missing an app to control this extension from commandline
 [05:11:04]  <whot> gah. been working too long, can't even read anymore.
 [05:11:06]  <AStorm> the old accessx util is GUI
 [05:11:34]  <whot^ xkbset maybe
 [05:12:23]  <AStorm> hmm, it can toggle accessx?
 [05:13:14]  <whot^ it claims to be able to
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[05:14:18]  <AStorm> I think I found some limitations with it, e.g. not compiling? ;P
 [05:14:27]  <whot^ from a 2 min code survey - sticky keys is global too
 [05:14:46]  <AStorm> astralstorm@localhost /usr/src/xkbset-0.5 $ ./xkbset --help
 [05:14:46]  <AStorm> XKB not supported for display :0.0
 [05:14:48]  <AStorm> wtf?
 [05:14:50]  <AStorm> it sure is
 [05:15:09]  <AStorm> I didn't disable anything
 [05:17:23]  <AStorm> wait, I'm getting some "error compiling keymap"
 [05:17:36]  <AStorm> on each run of xkbset
 [05:17:36]  <whot^ xkbcomp, most likely
 [05:17:53]  <AStorm> but my pl keymap works
 [05:18:00]  <AStorm> so it's not broken xkbcomp
 [05:18:03]  <AStorm> :/
 [05:18:43]  <whot> try setxkbmap -layout us -print | xkbcomp - :0 (swap to your layout of course). if that fails, it should print an error
 [05:19:24]  <AStorm> ok
 [05:20:17]  <AStorm> only bunch of warnings, no error
 [05:20:46]  <AStorm> the call that fails is:
 [05:21:00]  <AStorm>   xkb = XkbGetKeyboard(display,XkbControlsMask,XkbUseCoreKbd);
 [05:23:57]  <AStorm> fails as in xkb == 0
 [05:25:18]  <AStorm> hmm, no manpage says what is returned in case of error
 [05:26:02]  <AStorm> oh, NOW I got it
 [05:26:06]  <AStorm> unclutter is interfering
 [05:26:13]  <AStorm> by grabbing mouse and keyboard
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[05:26:41]  <AStorm> wait, no
 [05:26:45]  <AStorm> now it fully works, why?
 [05:26:53]  <AStorm> why didn't it before?
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[07:08:20]  <jcristau> cjb: is tinderbox down?
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[10:05:36]  <ajax> aaronp: is there a way to get the nvidia driver to dump details about its mode validation to the log?  i'm looking in the readme for one but not seeing one.
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[10:52:23]  <freespace> g'day all. Been playing with the xorg-input-penmount driver for work. I have ran into what is to me a strange problem: the driver correctly maps the touchscreen coordinates into screen coordinates, and it behaves fine for the x-axis. However even though the driver sending y=600 via xf86PostMotionEvent, the cursor never goes down that far. On the y-axis the cursor never goes more than ~2/3rd the way down, and reaches the top of the sc
 [10:52:51]  <freespace> the code i have is at http://rafb.net/p/JU7hEi27.html the relevant function is DMC_ReadInput I believe, and located on line 654
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[10:56:41]  <tjaalton> svu: looks like abnt2/jp106 not working with evdev is mostly due to AB11 being mapped to keycode 211 when it should be 97, so that could be changed globally on keycodes/evdev? The people who have tested this have also changed symbols/inet (commented out AB11), but I don't think this should be necessary if they use jp/br
 [10:57:23]  <tjaalton> anyway, I'll send you a patch with these once they have been tested
 [11:01:22]  <daniels> freespace: does it work if you ensure reportingMode is _always_ TS_Raw?
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[11:05:59]  <freespace> daniels: unfortunately, no. the driver as it is doesn't remap coordinates when reporting_mode is TS_RAW, so the cursor is all over the place
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[11:11:39]  <daniels> freespace: which server are you working with? 1.5 and greater have the rescaling done in the core, so you just report min_x and max_x correctly to InitValuatorAxisStruct begin with, and then always post raw values for everything
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[11:23:42]  <freespace> daniels: 1.4.2, though it is good to know about the change in 1.5, since that will probably break things
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[13:23:04]  <Primer> Hi, I know this is a developer channel, but #xorg is useless. I'm experiencing an odd issue where, while using a KVM (keyboard-video-mouse, not kernel virtualization), and having the detection of the mouse over KVM run an xset command to set the mouse acceleration, I eventually am unable to spawn more X programs due to "maximin number of clients reached"
 [13:23:14]  <Primer> There are no xset processes running, nor any other X programs that could account for this. Thoughts?
 [13:23:38]  <ajax> what does lsof say about /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 ?
 [13:26:29]  <Primer> I'll have to do that once it happens again
 [13:26:38]  <Primer> Your guess is it's leaking sockets?
 [13:27:10]  <ajax> well, something clearly is.
 [13:27:13]  <Primer> This only happens after a considerable amount of time
 [13:27:19]  <Primer> and the box isn't up at the moment, or I'd check
 [13:27:32]  <Primer> to see if perhaps there's an inordinate amount of sockets
 [13:27:57]  <ajax> historically the offender for this is the firefox flash plugin
 [13:29:17]  <Primer> I've never seen this happen on any of my other machines, and given that this is the only machine with a KVM, I figured it had something to do with it
 [13:30:20]  <ajax> the other possibility is that this is an input-hotplug-enabled X server and there's a leak in the hotplug code
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[13:30:38]  <ajax> the error message is slightly misleading, it's actually "i ran out of file descriptors"
 [13:30:47]  <Primer> This is Fedora 9, so yes, it is
 [13:30:52]  <Primer> yeah
 [13:30:56]  <Primer> that's what I figured
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[13:31:02]  <ajax> since kvm switch looks like an unplug event, then we might be leaking fds on unplug.
 [13:31:09]  <Primer> right
 [13:31:40]  <Primer> Anyhow, I'll look into this once I bring the machine up tonight and file a bug if this is the case
 [13:31:46]  <Primer> with fedora, of course
 [13:31:49]  <Primer> :)
 [13:31:57]  <ajax> heh.  i'll see it either way ;)
 [13:32:01]  <Primer> ahhh
 [13:32:17]  <Primer> thanks for the help
 [13:32:20]  <ajax> np
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[15:48:11]  <unfo> hi all, when I click "Quit" in xedit, it quits without saving.  Should I file a bug, if it turns out none has been reported?
 [15:48:19]  <unfo> (Steps to repro:  1.  /usr/bin/xedit  2.  type something  3.  click Quit.)  (What happens:  It quits without saving.)  (What should have happened:  It should have prompted me to save, just like gedit and Kate do.)
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[16:27:51]  <pcpa> unfo: When xedit started, the focus is on the filename selection window. Did you load a file? Or possibly write to the message window?
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[16:29:47]  <unfo> pcpa: mind to please join me in #xorg?
 [16:30:13]  <unfo> I am using an outdated version of xedit.
 [16:34:13]  <unfo> pcpa: repeat : mind to please join me in #xorg?
 [16:34:45]  <unfo> never mind.  I will discuss it here.
 [16:35:13]  <aaronp> ajax: Yes, start X with -logverbose 6
 [16:35:21]  <aaronp> (sorry for the slow reply, I was in Mexico getting sunburned)
 [16:35:47]  <unfo> Note that there is a newer version of xedit available: xedit-1.1.1.  I am using 1.0.3 since that is what comes with the latest Debian testing and it builds fine.  (When I build and run 1.1.1 it segfaults at startup, so I have never actually tried 1.1.1.(
 [16:35:51]  <unfo> s/(/)
 [16:35:54]  <ajax> aaronp: a commendable plan!
 [16:36:13]  <unfo> pcpa: I did not load a file.  I wrote to the bottom window.
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[16:36:19]  <unfo> Let me try to get 1.1.1 working
 [16:37:01]  <ajax> aaronp: any chance i could beg for it to honor Option "ModeDebug" like randr1.2 drivers do?  since i'm planning to smash that on for fedora permanently, because i hate getting too little information.
 [16:37:14]  <aaronp> What does ModeDebug do?
 [16:38:11]  <ajax> prints the EDID block when it's fetched, as well as the reasons for rejecting various modes.
 [16:39:07]  <aaronp> Oh.  Yeah, that's what -logverbose 6 does.  You're just looking for a way to turn that level of logging on from the config file?
 [16:39:34]  <ajax> well, from the server core, but yeah.
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[16:40:05]  <aaronp> I'll file an RFE tomorrow when I'm not on vacation.
 [16:40:09]  <pcpa> unfo: You probably have your environment setting the international resource to true. Xedit only works in multibyte or singlebyte, no utf8. Ensure the Xedit and Xedit-color files, as well as latest binaries are installed. I probably should also create a setup to force iso8859-1 or similar...
 [16:40:15]  <ajax> i suspect just cranking to 6 all the time would also start printing more useless info, in addition to more useful info.
 [16:40:18]  <svu_> what is the equvalent of "tagging" in git?
 [16:40:22]  <ajax^ tagging.
 [16:40:35]  <ajax> git tag [optional commit id] [tag name]
 [16:40:43]  <svu_> thanks!
 [16:40:49]  <halfline> svu_: one difference with git tagging though
 [16:40:50]  <jcristau> add -a or -s
 [16:40:52]  <ajax> i might have the order backwards there.  man git-tag knows all.
 [16:41:00]  <ajax> aaronp: awesome, thanks.
 [16:41:06]  <halfline> svu_: is the convention is to use real dots instead of dashes
 [16:41:20]  <halfline> svu_: so you'd just do git tag 2.0.0 to tag a 2.0.0 release or whatever
 [16:41:28]  * unfo tries building the newest xedit[1] (with --prefix=/tmp/xedit-1.1.1 this time so that hopefully it won't segfault on startup)
 [16:41:32]  <unfo> ^ [1]. http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/app/xedit-1.1.0.tar.bz2
 [16:41:39]  <svu_> ok, I will keep in mind, thanks a lot
 [16:41:42]  <unfo> pcpa: are you an xedit maintainer?
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[16:41:48]  <unfo> just curious
 [16:42:08]  <jcristau> he's the xedit user
 [16:43:12]  <unfo^ are you joking or serious?  Without tone of voice, it's hard to tell.
 [16:43:13]  <pcpa^ yes, actually, probably only maintainer and one of the few users :-)
 [16:43:25]  <unfo^ ah.  Thank you for taking over maintainership :)
 [16:43:49]  <unfo> it seems to me a powerful editor, though I use it as a Windows Notepad replacement.
 [16:43:57]  <unfo> i don't use any of the power really
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[16:46:00]  <pcpa> unfo: I use it only for coding. I need to check what is wrong with Xaw sometime, it used to work correctly sometime ago... But I never use Xaw widgets in multibyte mode
 [16:47:31]  <unfo^ yes.  my $LANG is fr_FR.UTF-8.  Does this cause the Quit button not to notice when I quit without saving?
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[16:51:31]  <pcpa> unfo: This should not matter if you have the *international resource not set. Try running as "# /usr/bin/xedit -xrm '*international: 0'". Probably the MultiSrc widget is not calling the proper callback. I basically only maintained Xaw and xedit in XFree86. In Xorg I become maintainer again recently, and I don't think anybody cares about Xaw...
 [16:53:14]  <unfo^ % /usr/bin/xedit -xrm '*international: 0' foo3
 [16:53:14]  <unfo> Warning: locale not supported by C library, locale unchanged
 [16:53:15]  <unfo> Error: Source object is not a subclass of asciiSrc
 [16:53:43]  <unfo> The command pcpa told me didn't work on xedit-1.0.3 on zsh on Debian lenny.  Why not?
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[16:54:40]  <unfo> By the way, "xrdb -query | grep -i international" returns no output at all.
 [16:56:08]  <pcpa^ ah, you don't have the latest freedesktop.org xedit version, where I fixed these problems (xedit was basically unusable for several years in xorg...)
 [16:56:37]  <unfo^ I am trying to build it
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[17:02:13]  <svu_> ajax: what about "annotate" in git? I could not find it in cgit.fd.o
 [17:03:59]  <jcristau^ git {blame,annotate}
 [17:04:06]  <jcristau> not possible in cgit, but.
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[17:08:11]  <unfo> pcpa: is there any way for me to build and run the latest trunk xedit without becoming root?
 [17:11:36]  <pcpa^ copy Xedit and Xedit-color to $HOME, and execute the binary. It should work...
 [17:12:33]  <unfo^ using xedit 1.1.1: *** OPEN: file "/usr/local/lib/X11/xedit/li... does not exist
 [17:12:37]  <unfo> zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)  ./xedit
 [17:12:46]  <unfo> maybe i have to configure with some certain prefix?
 [17:15:24]  <pcpa> It crashes if it doesn't find the lisp files at startup. Try compiling with the --lispdir configure option.
 [17:16:47]  <unfo^ --lispdir equals what?
 [17:16:54]  <unfo> i am building in /tmp/xedit-1.1.1
 [17:17:12]  <npmccallum> ajax: ping
 [17:18:41]  <pcpa> unfo: it is the directory it will install some lisp files, for syntax highlight, automatic indentation, etc
 [17:21:35]  <unfo^ what should I set lispdir to?
 [17:23:31]  <pcpa^ set it to some directory you can write. ./autogen.sh --prefix=$HOME should do it, if you don't care in having a /bin and /lib directory in your home...
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[17:39:22]  <unfo> pcpa:  When I did "make clean && ./configure --with-lispdir=/tmp/xedit-lispdir && make && make install && (./xedit &)", it failed.  Specifically, it failed during "make install": it said "/usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file usr/local/bin/xedit': Permission denied".  How can I get xedit to build and run, not as root?
 [17:41:40]  <cbrake> are there command line options to make Xfbdev to work with a a usb keyboard?
 [17:41:55]  <cbrake> it works fine at the console, but after I start X, even the caps light does not work
 [17:42:04]  <jcristau> unfo: set --prefix to something other than /usr/local..
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[17:45:26]  <unfo> pcpa:  Now I did:  % make clean && ./configure --prefix=/tmp/xedit-1.1.1-prefix --with-lispdir=/tmp/xedit-1.1.1-prefix && make && make install && (./xedit &)
 [17:45:34]  <unfo> I got:  /usr/bin/install: cannot remove etc/X11/app-defaults/Xedit': Permission denied
 [17:45:55]  <unfo> maybe a bug in the xedit build system?
 [17:46:06]  <unfo> s/ a bug / this is a bug /g
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[17:51:01]  <pcpa> unfo: you may need to hack the Makefile in this case. It is set as ``appdefaultdir=$(pkg-config --variable=appdefaultdir xt)''  But if it is installed in your home, it should work, or if you set something like the XAPPLRESDIR environment variable...
 [17:51:59]  <unfo^ is it possible you could please make whatever change is necessary on trunk, then I will check out trunk and try to build not as root?
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[17:55:41]  <pcpa> unfo: Applresdir could be converted to a configure option, fallbacking to pkgconfig, but probably not really required... The easiest method to test without installing, is to use the installed files, try compiling with --prefix=/usr, just don't install, then run with "-xrm '*international: 0'", and/or copy Xedit and Xedit-color to your home.
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[18:02:29]  <_bernie> airlied: around? is xvideo expected to work in f10 with r300?
 [18:02:34]  <_bernie> CosmicPenguin: hey!
 [18:04:34]  <CosmicPenguin> _bernie!  What part of the world are you in these days?
 [18:05:37]  <_bernie^ back in italy
 [18:06:04]  <_bernie> I might reappear in boston next month for the ESC
 [18:06:11]  <_bernie> is AMD also going there?
 [18:06:47]  <CosmicPenguin> I would guess
[18:07:33]  <airlied> _bernie: it might not be fully working with modesetting.
 [18:07:57]  <unfo> pcpa, now I built like this:  "make clean && ./configure --prefix=/usr && make && (./xedit &)."  Now xedit built and ran.  Thank you for your patience.  But the initial bug I reported to you still is present in xedit-1.1.1.  My $LANG is still set to fr_FR.UTF-8.  Let me retest with LANG= empty.
 [18:08:07]  <unfo> was that last message truncated before "empty."?
 [18:08:35]  <unfo> all:  was that last message I wrote to pcpa truncated before "empty."?
 [18:09:07]  <_bernie> airlied: I just booted with nommodeset and I still get XBadAlloc from video players
 [18:09:50]  <_bernie> I don't see any mode setting related messages in dmesg.
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[18:10:29]  <_bernie> CosmicPenguin: perhaps this time we'll really get to meet
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[18:10:36]  <cjb> hm, annarchy out of diskspace?
 [18:10:54]  <_bernie^ oops
 [18:11:10]  <cjb> _bernie: what's the ESC?
 [18:11:23]  <airlied+ _ wierd.. ty enabling EXA.
 [18:11:35]  <CosmicPenguin+ _ not that I'll be there, mind you
 [18:11:41]  <_bernie> cjb: an embedded conference: http://www.cmp-egevents.com/web/escb
 [18:11:44]  <cjb> ah
 [18:11:50]  <CosmicPenguin> its bad enough they are letting me go to LPC - heaven forbid if I was to talk to actual customers
 [18:11:53]  <_bernie> airlied: it's enabled by default these days
 [18:12:11]  <_bernie> yes, I double checked in Xorg.0.log
 [18:12:37]  <_bernie> cjb: looking forward to see you guys too, of course!
 [18:13:00]  <cjb> _bernie: :)
 [18:13:07]  <agd5f> airlied, _bernie: it may be trying to use the overlay
 [18:13:12]  <cjb> _bernie: what're the dates?
 [18:13:18]  * cjb will be going to Uruguay next month.
 [18:13:21]  <_bernie> CosmicPenguin: LPC?
 [18:13:32]  <CosmicPenguin> _bernie: Linux Plumbers Conference
 [18:13:47]  <_bernie> cjb: oct 26 to 30
 [18:13:59]  <_bernie> CosmicPenguin: oh, that seems like a cool one, indeed
 [18:13:59]  <svu_> daniels: ping?
 [18:15:12]  <_bernie> CosmicPenguin: and you call those customers? you'll get to meet only those with long beards and fancy t-shirts.
 [18:16:04]  <_bernie> and if you meet one dressed up like a cowboy, then it's definitely rob savoye :-)
 [18:16:25]  <svu_> _bernie: hi. long time no see:)
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[18:16:46]  <_bernie> svu_: sergey!!!
 [18:17:03]  <svu_> _bernie: how are things?
 [18:18:07]  <_bernie^ I'm in italy... wait, let's move to priv msg before people yell at us
 [18:19:16]  <svu_> :)
 [18:20:44]  <pcpa> unfo: Sorry, was not looking at irc. The message was ok. It doesn't matter the $LANG, but a xedit resource, that was changed for xprint support. Just run with -xrm *international: 0
 [18:22:16]  <unfo^ sorry, forgot about the LANG-doesn't matter thing.  ok, "./xedit -xrm '*international: 0'" works fine.  "./xedit" has the bug.  Should I file a bug report?
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[18:29:27]  <pcpa> unfo: Sure :-) With enough motivation one could fix these problems in Xaw... I considered creating an external widtget (to not touch libXaw) that would be a modified version of the "single byte" one to understand utf, but I don't think it is worth the work, personally I don't need it, but it shouldn't be too hard to do; at least for me that understand Xaw...
 [18:29:39]  <pcpa> need to go... closing building here...
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[18:32:03]  <unfo> pcpa: ok
 [18:32:10]  <unfo> i will file a bug.  Thank you.
 [18:32:28]  <unfo> do you have time for me to ask: is it an Xaw bug? or an xedit bug?
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[18:51:18]  <unfo> all :  Is it an Xaw bug? or an xedit bug?
 [18:57:39]  <alanc> I'm not sure anyone but pcpa knows much about either xedit or Xaw
 [18:58:02]  <unfo> :(
 [18:58:10]  <unfo> alanc: so i'll file a bug against xedit.
 [18:58:20]  <unfo> I'll also file a bug in debian asking them to pull in a newer xedit
 [18:58:38]  <alanc> seems reasonable, he can move to the libXaw category if it turns out to be there
 [18:58:46]  <unfo^ thanks for the reply anyway :)
 [18:58:53]  <unfo> now I know not to keep waiting here.
 [18:59:04]  <gravity> We have an xedit user?
 [19:00:11]  <unfo^ there are more xedit users than you think.
 [19:01:11]  <alanc> at least 2 have been in this channel today, which is one more than most people think there are 8-)
 [19:01:15]  <daniels> unfo: probably Xaw, but odds are we can't change Xaw due to compat reasons
 [19:01:17]  <daniels> svu_: hi
 [19:01:19]  <gravity> unfo: Want to maintain it for Debian?
 [19:01:22]  <unfo> daniels: no thanks
 [19:01:25]  <unfo> gravity: no thanks :)
 [19:01:32]  <gravity> shit
 [19:01:37]  <unfo> daniels: can't change it due to compat reasons?
 [19:01:38]  <svu_+ hi. did you receive my mail?
 [19:02:01]  <daniels^ yeah, i need to extend the page a bit
 [19:02:17]  <daniels> unfo: it's likely numerous applications depend on those exact xaw semantics
 [19:02:26]  <daniels> just use gtk or qt apps ...
 [19:02:48]  <unfo^ so those apps can be fixed, no?
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[19:04:50]  <svu_> daniels: good! At least it makes sense to you, doesn't it?
 [19:04:52]  <daniels> unfo: sure, but what's the point?
 [19:04:56]  <daniels> svu_: rather :)
 [19:05:31]  <svu_^ looking forward to your extensions!:) and of course - to fixes! :))
 [19:05:48]  <daniels> haha, indeed
 [19:06:19]  <unfo^ the point is that then, a dataloss bug in xedit can be fixed
 [19:08:05]  <DrNick> yes, but nobody uses xedit
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[19:09:08]  <unfo> does debian provide popcon data on xedit?
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[19:11:47]  <daniels> No Popularity contest entry for xedit
 [19:12:09]  <unfo> it's part of the package x11-apps
 [19:12:42]  <daniels> ah, so that means a hell of a lot of people are going to have it installed
 [19:13:18]  <unfo> too bad it's all one package.
 [19:13:52]  <unfo> do any other other Linux distros (other than Debian derivatives) capture app usage data?
 [19:14:00]  <unfo> maybe someone has more-granular data.
 [19:19:58]  * svu_ wonders why xedit is still around
 [19:20:10]  <unfo> because some people like it
 [19:22:11]  <DrNick> Fedora doesn't even ship xedit
 [19:23:45]  <anholt> daniels: that's unfortunate
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[19:24:36]  <keithp> daniels: so kick jcristau and make him split xedit into a separate package
 [19:24:40]  <unfo> maybe they don't like xedit's bugs so they decided it's not worth shipping.  I applaud that.
 [19:25:12]  <unfo> xedit is old, and the maintainer does not have infinite time, so it is still buggy.
 [19:27:22]  <dberkholz> anyone know why eamon disabled XC-SECURITY by default?
 [19:27:32]  <dberkholz> it makes X over ssh unhappy
 [19:30:02]  <daniels> because it was about as useful as xedit
 [19:30:24]  <daniels> ssh's x support is very unhappy anyway.
 [19:31:01]  <daniels> 'oh my god it has SECURITY in the name.  this is AWESOME.  we have to use it as much as possible.' 'but it's pointless!' 'YOU DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT SECURITY.'
 [19:37:00]  <cworth^ ping
 [19:37:26]  <cworth> I'm suffering from input woes and hoping you can help me without me having to become an input demon.
 [19:38:19]  <whot^ what's up?
 [19:38:34]  <cworth> daniels: First, I found that current X with "-kb" fails badly, (instead of keyboard-repeat I just get lots of "mieqEnequeue: out-of-order valuator event; dropping").
 [19:39:02]  <daniels^ that sounds about right, yeah.  i haven't tested that path in a long time.
 [19:39:04]  <cworth> I fixed that by just not passing -kb when starting X, (which I think I had added to my script at some point in the past to help debuggability or so).
 [19:39:38]  <daniels> right, a drm bug used to mean you couldn't start x under gdb with -kb, but that's fixed now.
 [19:39:55]  <cworth> Next. XKB complained about missing files. I fixed that by compiling xkeyboard-config. (Why is that outside xorg/? or xorg/data? for that matter.).
 [19:39:59]  <cworth> daniels: Cool.
 [19:40:48]  <cworth> So now I'm getting in the log:
 [19:40:51]  <cworth> XKB: Couldn't open rules file /opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg
 [19:41:14]  <cworth> And GNOME complaining "Error activating XKB configuration".
 [19:41:18]  <cworth> So what am I missing now?
 [19:41:29]  <daniels^ try symlinking xorg -> base.
 [19:41:47]  <daniels> xk-c is outside xorg/ because i don't think we've asked svu to bring it in.  *shrug*
 [19:41:54]  * cworth even glossed over the missing /prefix/bin/xkbcomp binary. Any reason we can't use a search path to find that binary?
 [19:42:09]  <cworth> Or even do xkbcomp junk at compilation time rather than runtime?
 [19:42:39]  <daniels> erm, running xkbcomp at compilation time means you get to choose one layout and one layout only, and you'd damn well better be happy with it. :)
 [19:42:55]  <daniels> libxkbcomp is the sensible answer there though, and that's planned
 [19:43:37]  <cworth^ OK, as long as sanity is planned, I'm happy. :-)
 [19:44:19]  <cworth> OK. The symlink makes the log file happy, but GNOME is still complaining.
 [19:45:23]  <cworth> (And worse, my mod4 mapping isn't happening, so I can't drive my WM at all.)
 [19:45:41]  <cworth> Heh. Even down arrow doesn't seem to be working.
 [19:45:54]  <whot^ that's usually a "model" issue
 [19:46:01]  <whot> setxkbmap -model evdev
 [19:46:06]  <cworth> Oh, sure it is. It's just my mod4 key. :-P
 [19:47:40]  <cworth> so some of this might be fallout from me switching from kbd to evdev for my keyboard driver, (which I tried while trying to debug the "out-of-order valuator" stuff)---and of course that didn't work until I manually installed x11-input.fdi.
 [19:48:20]  <daniels^ the latter is a distro issue.  gnome is buggy wrt keyboard bindings, and they decided to withold input hotplug until it was fixed.  fair enough.
 [19:48:32]  * cworth has way too much material for Linux Hater's Blog at this point...
 [19:48:46]  <cworth> daniels: Yeah, that much I understand.
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[19:49:12]  <npmccallum> airlied: ping
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[19:49:30]  <daniels> up/down/etc not working is that bug exactly.  the keycode for print screen in pc105 is the same for up in evdev, and gnome for some reason is pathologically attached to keycodes rather than keysyms.  so you end up with the screenshot dialog every time you hit up.
 [19:49:59]  <airlied> npmccallum: pong
 [19:50:00]  <daniels> as to what gnome's complaining about, what's the output of the command it tells you to run?
 [19:51:30]  <cworth> $ xprop -root | grep XKB
 [19:51:30]  <cworth> _XKB_RULES_NAMES_BACKUP(STRING) = "evdev", "evdev", "us", "", ""
 [19:51:30]  <cworth> _XKB_RULES_NAMES(STRING) = "evdev", "evdev", "us", "", ""
 [19:51:59]  <cworth> gconftool-2 -R /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd
 [19:51:59]  <cworth> layouts = []
 [19:51:59]  <cworth> model =
[19:51:59]  <cworth> options = [ctrl ctrl:nocaps,Compose key compose:lwin]
 [19:52:00]  <cworth> overrideSettings = true
 [19:52:19]  <cworth> So, empty model there is a problem or something?
 [19:52:29]  <npmccallum> airlied: is the intel interrupts issues the cause of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=462098 ?
 [19:53:07]  <cworth> $ setxkbmap -model evdev
 [19:53:07]  <cworth> Couldn't find rules file (evdev)
[19:53:18]  <cworth> ... so I'm still missing something I guess...
 [19:53:55]  <airlied> npmccallum: yup the 329 kernel that is in koji now should fix it
 [19:55:43]  <npmccallum^ excellent...
 [19:56:15]  * cworth goes for "if it ain't broken don't fix it" and rips out x11-input.fdi
 [19:56:18]  <npmccallum> airlied: also, I'm trying to get someone to review / approve my first xorg patch... I'd really like to get it included.  Any chance you'd be willing to take a look at it?
 [19:56:20]  <cworth> There, much better now.
 [19:56:56]  <cworth> Not hot-pluggy anymore, but also back to just mouse and kbd which work for me at least.
 [19:57:03]  <airlied> npmccallum: at confs all this week.. I can probably look at some point... but it might be next week.
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[19:57:45]  <cworth> daniels. whot: Thanks for the help.
 [19:57:55]  <daniels^ okay, you need xk-c from git to get th eevdev ruleset
 [19:57:58]  <whot+ that means it's not finding the evdev rules file - was added to xkeyboard-config a while ago but not in a released version
 [19:58:05]  <npmccallum> airlied: have fun!
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[19:58:30]  <cworth> daniels: That's what I (tried at least) to build/isntall a few minutes ago.
 [19:59:08]  <whot^ maybe you fail at the hilarious prefix game, which has to be right for xkc, xkbcomp and xserver :)
 [19:59:23]  <cworth> daniels: I'll poke around more if it would be helpful for you, but otherwise I'll be happy to go back to ignoring input as an impenetrable nightmare.
 [19:59:54]  <daniels^ as whot says, you have to get the prefix to agree for xserver, xkbcomp, and xkc.
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[20:00:20]  <whot> it's the year of the linux desktop, ladies and gentlemen :)
 [20:01:49]  <cworth> daniels: Yeah. My shell history makes it look good.
 [20:01:56]  <daniels> itym opensolaris desktop.  i hear they support a wireless card now.
 [20:02:03]  <daniels> cworth: yet you don't have rules/evdev?
 [20:02:28]  <cworth^ Oh, wait, you also had me install a symlink...
 [20:03:23]  <cworth> Oh, but that was local, not to /usr or anything...
 [20:03:49]  <daniels^ if git xk-c is installed to the same prefix, you should have rules/evdev
 [20:04:09]  <cworth> I do have /opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev, yes.
 [20:04:49]  <daniels> oh, for the love of god.
 [20:05:15]  <daniels> setxkbmap -I/opt/xorg/share/X11/xkb
 [20:05:26]  ***  egbert_away is now known as egbert.
[20:05:31]  <daniels> we're cleaning _all_ this up, i promise.  sorry.
 [20:05:56]  <daniels> i need to sleep though, i feel like death warmed up, except someone forgot to change the power, so it was just done on defrost.
 [20:06:05]  <cworth> So, to avoid that problem I'd just need to rebuild setxkbmap with the prefix I want then?
 [20:06:28]  <cworth> daniels: OK, at least you know what's going on, and have your plan for a library to bring sanity here.
 [20:06:28]  <daniels> probably, yeah
 [20:06:42]  <cworth^ G'night.
 [20:06:46]  <daniels> 'nacht. :)
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[20:07:37]  <unfo> where on the xorg ftp server can i download all of x11-apps?
 [20:10:32]  <alanc> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/app/
 [20:11:07]  <alanc> aka ftp://ftp.x.org/pub/individual/app
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[20:41:53]  <jg> ping whot
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[20:50:27]  <whot> jg: pong
 [20:53:07]  <whot> btw. irssi doesn't highlight "ping whot", but it does highlight "whot: ping".
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[21:14:39]  <jg> whot: sounds like a lousy client...
 [21:14:52]  <jg> just a gentle reminder for those videos, if you can dig them up.
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[21:15:15]  <jg> whot: As you've seen in the mail, plan for a talk when you come up from downunder.
 [21:15:32]  <whot^ i sent you an email yesterday. or so I thought
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[21:15:51]  <jg> whot: thanks, you did.
 [21:15:55]  <jg> Got buried in my mail.
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[21:16:06]  <jg> today was chaotic due to sick offspring.
 [21:17:09]  <whot^ abstract by - uhm. tomorrow morning (my time) hopefully. I'm swamped
 [21:17:32]  <jg^ thanks; no hurry on that until you know your immigration stuff.
 [21:17:46]  <whot^ ohshit. yeah. I have to call them up too
 [21:17:53]  <jg> heh.
 [21:18:22]  <jg> I'm ordering a Dell Latitude XT to play with; I'm trying to get ahold of N-Trig.
 [21:18:34]  <jg> no response yet by mail; I'll try phone tomorrow morning.
 [21:18:55]  <jg> (N-Trig makes the touch screen in the Latitude).
 [21:19:08]  <jg> I should see it around October 1, I hope.
 [21:19:26]  <jg> if N-Trig is cooperative about specs and information, I'll try to get you one too.
 [21:20:16]  <jg> whot: the videos on N-Trig's web site are encouraging, in terms of what the hardware is capable of.
 [21:21:20]  <jg> unfortunately an ATI chip in the Latitude, but such is life.
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[21:37:57]  <whot> jg: regarding hw - the most limiting factor will be the input proto ATM
 [21:39:48]  <jg^ yup, but time is precious: once I'm sure we can get cooperation, having it in your hands, even if sitting idle, is better than having a 2 week (or longer) delay of game to order one when you can use it.
 [21:41:58]  <jg> Right now lead time is running at 2 weeks.
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[21:43:24]  <jg> whot: my bed-time.  Catch you later.  Thanks for the video.
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[03:31:41]  <freespace> re my problem earlier. I seem to have fixed the penmount touchscreen driver. It would seem it is now possible to properly calibrate penmount touchscreens if one has pm-sniff.
 [03:31:55]  <freespace> how does one go about submitting patches to a particular xorg driver?
 [03:33:16]  <daniels> email to xorg@l.fd.o, or bugzilla
 [03:34:02]  <freespace> okie dokie
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[04:35:16]  <jcristau> keithp: i'm all for removing xedit from x11-apps, then somebody else can worry about maintaining it in a separate package.
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[05:37:14]  <freespace> sigh, first time using bugzilla and i make a fool of myself
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[05:54:49]  <daniels> freespace: looks good, ta
 [05:56:26]  <johnflux> morning all
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[05:58:26]  <freespace> daniels: excellent :D
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[08:41:13]  <gw280> ok, so I've got randr working such that I can resize the virtual framebuffer and it adds the new screen size to the list that xrandr reports, but after resizing xrandr still reports the old size as the current
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[09:37:19]  <MrCooper> gw280: are you referring to screen size or output resolution? You need to set both separately
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[09:40:04]  <gw280> MrCooper: output resolution
 [09:40:25]  <MrCooper^ --mode
 [09:40:44]  <gw280^ I'm trying to do it in C inside the xserver code
 [09:42:36]  <gw280> basically, I'm trying to allow Xvnc to take requests from the client to resize its framebuffer
 [09:43:18]  <gw280> I've managed to get it to resize nicely, and everything seems to work, except that after resizing the program xrandr still reports the old screen resolution as the current resolution, instead of the new one
 [09:44:38]  <MrCooper> that may be expected, resizing the screen and changing modes are separate operations
 [09:44:51]  <gw280> ah
 [09:45:28]  <gw280> MrCooper: so which function do I need to call in addition to RRSetCurrentConfig and RRRegisterSize/RRRegisterRate?
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[09:46:40]  <MrCooper> I'm not that familiar with the RandR server internals, someone else can hopefully fill you in
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[09:51:29]  <gw280> MrCooper: ok, thanks for your help anyway
 [09:53:29]  <MrCooper> np
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[10:50:35]  <jcristau> ajax: do you have something queued up to fix the exa/shm bug, or should i push http://newpeople.debian.org/~jcristau/02_exa-don-t-allow-shared-pixmaps.patch?
 [10:55:46]  <ajax^ that looks good, go for it.
 [10:56:05]  <ajax> although, you could skip the header addition and just define it all in one file.
 [10:56:52]  <jcristau> ok. that one was just reverting part of your patch, so it was easier. :)
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[11:12:29]  <AStorm> hello
 [11:12:52]  <AStorm> am I correct in thinking that the job of window manager is to listen to Expose events and do whatever it wants?
 [11:13:12]  <ajax> not really
 [11:13:21]  <ajax> exposures are sent to applications to tell them they need to redraw
 [11:13:27]  <AStorm> mhm
 [11:13:36]  <AStorm> which event is sent when a new window appears?
 [11:13:37]  <ajax> a wm needs to listen to them so it correctly redraws the window decorations, but that's about it.
 [11:13:41]  <ajax> MapNotify
 [11:13:46]  <AStorm> ok
 [11:14:17]  <AStorm> so that gives two (others are optional)
 [11:14:32]  <AStorm> well, decorations are actually optional too ;P
 [11:14:56]  <AStorm> I expect that UnmapNotify is sent when a window disappears, correct?
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[11:16:00]  <krh> AStorm: man XEvent is a good starting point for learning about the different types of events
 [11:16:47]  <AStorm> except I have your XProtocol documentation, which is even better
 [11:16:54]  <AStorm> but there is no example event flow ;P
 [11:17:14]  <ajax> yeah, you sort of have to infer it from the description of what all the requests do
 [11:17:29]  <ajax> if you felt like writing better docs we'd be happy to include them ;)
 [11:18:42]  <AStorm> heh, except that would require sources of these docs - I guess they are in some git repository?
 [11:18:51]  <ajax> indeed they are
 [11:18:59]  <AStorm> latex?
 [11:19:07]  <AStorm> (looks like it)
 [11:19:13]  <ajax> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/doc/xorg-docs/
 [11:19:30]  <ajax> git clone git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/doc/xorg-docs
 [11:20:14]  <AStorm> oh no, it's troff
 [11:21:02]  <AStorm> including pictures in troff is not easy :)
 [11:21:21]  <AStorm> drawing graphs is not either
 [11:21:29]  <ajax> we're not picky
 [11:21:41]  <ajax> if you need some other format, go for ti
 [11:21:52]  <AStorm> heh, why not
 [11:22:12]  <AStorm> right now, I'm more interested in using the documentation rather than improving it
 [11:22:15]  <AStorm> maybe later
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[11:58:36]  <AStorm> well, I'll reuse gtk and gdk objects for pure profit ;)
 [11:58:42]  <AStorm> less work for me
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[12:00:16]  <stillunknown> AStorm: what are you up to?
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[12:08:41]  <AStorm> stillunknown: resurrected my WM project
 [12:08:58]  <AStorm> as awesome is stifling, I'd have to rewrite a lot, and I do mean a lot, of stuff
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[12:10:06]  <AStorm> so I'll take PyGTK (more of gtk.gdk actually I think) and maybe extend that a bit with new X extensions (with xpyb)
 [12:10:27]  <AStorm> the WM will steal concepts from Ion and Awesome :>
 [12:10:56]  <AStorm> but won't have any bit of C code (except bindings, which somebody else already made)
 [12:11:29]  <stillunknown> good luck with yawm
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[12:13:10]  <AStorm> well, there are few good wms really
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[12:13:40]  <AStorm> and even fewer in Python :>
 [12:14:02]  <AStorm> (most are in C, C+Lua or C++, one I know is in Lisp)
 [12:14:17]  <AStorm> the other wms in Python are... ehem
 [12:14:53]  <AStorm> one wm is in Haskell
 [12:15:49]  <AStorm> just wrote main loop, now on to keybindings
 [12:18:40]  <AStorm> heh, gtk.gdk is fairly 1:1 translation of X protocol too
 [12:18:52]  <AStorm> a bit higher level, I think it uses xlib right now
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[13:07:03]  <daniels> ajax: so what's meaningfully left
[13:07:12]  <daniels> with 1.5? is it just 1.5.2 with the shm pixmap fix?
 [13:11:20]  <ajax> think so.
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[13:13:22]  <daniels> rockin
 [13:16:41]  <AStorm> how do I detect that another window manager is managing the desktop?
 [13:17:18]  <ajax> try to select SubstructureRedirectMask
 [13:17:25]  <AStorm> mhm
 [13:17:26]  <ajax> if you succeed, congratulations, no wm was running.
 [13:17:29]  <AStorm> thanks
 [13:18:54]  <halfline> not the best way!
 [13:19:27]  <halfline> window manager takes a selection for each screen it manages
 [13:19:34]  <halfline> WM_Sn where n is the screen number i think
 [13:20:24]  <halfline> AStorm: ^
 [13:20:33]  <fredrikh> NET_WM_Sn i think
 [13:21:35]  <fredrikh> so if XGetSelectionOwner returns a non zero value, a wm is running
 [13:22:34]  <krh> and if you want to replace the old wm (as in metacity --replace) you just take the selection
 [13:23:12]  <halfline> fredrikh: xlsatoms | grep WM_S0 on my machine suggests there's no NET_ (or _NET) prefix
 [13:23:35]  <halfline> i believe mclasen invented the idea before the netwm spec existed
 [13:24:21]  <fredrikh> halfline: looks like you're right
 [13:24:53]  <halfline> fredrikh: there is an analagous _NET_CM_Sn selection for compositing managers
 [13:25:23]  <halfline> fredrikh: that was standardized by ssp i think
 [13:26:39]  <fredrikh> yeah, that's why i was thinking that the WM one was in the same namespace
 [13:28:38]  <AStorm^ any way to do that with gdk only, or do I have to resort to pure xcb?
 [13:28:43]  <AStorm> :)
 [13:29:22]  <AStorm> krh: I'll do both, assuming I can select anything with gdk ;P
 [13:30:02]  <fredrikh> i dunno
 [13:30:25]  <AStorm> there is some get_events... but I'll better ask about that on some #gtk
 [13:30:33]  <fredrikh> gdk is not my area of expertise :)
 [13:31:18]  <AStorm> "Map, unmap, destroy, and configure events are selected with GDK_STRUCTURE_MASK, but GDK automatically selects them on any new window. (Xlib programmers beware; Xlib does not do this.)"
 [13:31:20]  <AStorm> hmmmm
 [13:31:37]  <AStorm> so I'll have to do that myself with root windows I guess
 [13:31:41]  <AStorm> to check
 [13:31:42]  <fredrikh> wrong kind of selection
 [13:32:03]  <AStorm> the same kind of selection :) X way of receiving events
 [13:32:20]  <AStorm> but I'll have to do it on root windows
 [13:32:32]  <fredrikh^ http://tronche.com/gui/x/icccm/sec-2.html#s-2
 [13:40:22]  <AStorm> uhm, question is, from whom should I grab selection
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[13:40:34]  <AStorm> assuming there is no WM around
 [13:40:43]  <AStorm> I should try all top-level windows?
 [13:41:11]  <AStorm> or all root windows?
 [13:41:29]  <ajax> root windows.
 [13:41:53]  <AStorm> mhm.. can root windows somehow "not exist"?
 [13:42:35]  <ajax> how would that even work?
 [13:43:24]  <AStorm> no idea
 [13:43:45]  <AStorm> anyway, mostly solved
 [13:43:59]  <AStorm> now, I get to check how event management was mapped in pygtk
 [13:44:02]  <AStorm> thanks for help :)
 [13:46:38]  <AStorm> so, I'll have to put_event(SelectionRequest(root_window))
[13:47:41]  <AStorm> I wonder what should I do with stubborn WMs... I can force SetSelectionOwner (sounds tricky) or give up
 [13:47:47]  <AStorm> probably a command line option will do
 [13:49:20]  <AStorm> hmm... more like, send GetSelectionOwner to root window
 [13:49:36]  <AStorm> should be None
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[14:01:01]  <AStorm> hmm, it doesn't do that at all
 [14:01:13]  <AStorm> it's called selection_convert in there ;P
 [14:02:15]  <AStorm> but there are no methods to forcibly grab the selection, oh well
 [14:04:29]  <AStorm> oh, there is one :>
 [14:10:59]  <AStorm> I'd also like to thank you guys for Xephyr. It's excellent :)
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[14:35:19]  <stillunknown> cworth: ping
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[16:01:16]  <daniels> whot: ping
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[16:30:48]  <Primer> ajax: seems you were correct. I am leaking file descriptors
 [16:31:51]  <Primer> http://sh.nu/p/24910
 [16:33:37]  <daniels> that's only 42 sockets though.  MAXCLIENTS is 512, IIRC.
 [16:34:10]  <Primer> every time I switch on the KVM, that number is increased
 [16:34:18]  <Primer> I suppose I could just switch 100 times
 [16:34:58]  <jcristau^ some evdev versions didn't close() the device
 [16:35:02]  <daniels> oh, i see
 [16:35:09]  <Primer> jcristau: that's what we suspect
 [16:35:17]  <jcristau> that was fixed, though
 [16:35:17]  <daniels> yeah, which version of xf86-input-evdev/xserver-xorg-input-evdev are you running?
 [16:35:17]  <Primer> ajax and I (mostly ajax :)
 [16:35:45]  <Primer> xorg-x11-drv-evdev-2.0.2-1.fc9.x86_64
 [16:36:04]  <daniels> ah, try upgrading to 2.0.4 or so
 [16:36:12]  <Primer> have an rpm handy?
 [16:36:21]  <jcristau> only debs
 [16:36:22]  <jcristau> sorry
 [16:36:23]  <daniels> ask ajax, airlied, or whot
 [16:36:27]  <Primer> enable testing repo?
 [16:36:39]  <Primer> yeah, I installed 2.0.2 from testing a while back
 [16:36:43]  <daniels> alternately, building it shouldn't be too hard
 [16:36:43]  * Primer tries
 [16:36:55]  <Primer> except I don't have many of the devel packages
 [16:39:08]  <Primer> 2.0.3 is available
 [16:39:12]  <Primer> from updates-testing
 [16:39:16]  <Primer> guess I'll wait for ajax
 [16:39:18]  <Primer> thanks
 [16:39:40]  <daniels> np
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[18:31:19]  <whot> daniels: pong
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[19:49:58]  <kane> Is Xorg 7.4 still a no-wish?
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[20:11:40]  <Primer> ajax: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=462543 a present for you
 [20:15:42]  <whot^ 2.0.4 is already in F9 stable. or so I thought
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[20:16:22]  <Primer> it's not
 [20:16:26]  <Primer> 2.0.2 is the latest
 [20:16:32]  <Primer> 2.0.3 is in updates-testing
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[20:31:26]  <whot> Primer: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-7265
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[20:57:45]  <Primer> whot: shall I close the bug? Or do you do that?
 [20:58:05]  <Primer> This is what I call service!
 [20:58:37]  <whot^ pls do it, thx
 [20:59:44]  <Primer> hrmm, what tag should I use?
 [20:59:52]  <Primer> UPSTREAM?
 [21:01:58]  <Primer> closed. Thanks
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[21:29:27]  <reduz> cool, that was my first x crash in like, 5 years
 [21:29:41]  <reduz> getting finally stable :)
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[21:31:36]  <reduz> great, seems i can even reproduce it
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[21:52:24]  <spstarr> liez
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[22:31:35]  <vleon> where can i get documentation about specific functions ot specific headers?, I'm trying to modify xcompmgr a bit but i dont know how to get info about the xorg headers included in it. and specific functions, variable types etc.. used from those headers..
 [22:37:23]  <ajax> many of them have manual pages
 [22:37:36]  <ajax> the ones that don't are typically described in the appropriate protocol documentation
 [22:38:29]  <ajax> on a fedora system, for example, the protocol documentation is part of the xorg-x11-docs package
 [22:39:11]  <vleon> ohh
 [22:39:33]  <vleon> do you have any idea where it lies in arch? and/or maybe somewhere on the net?
 [22:42:20]  <ajax> X is in arch extras?  weirdos.
 [22:43:33]  <ajax> they don't seem to have the docs packaged at all
 [22:43:39]  <vleon> i think i found it :)
 [22:44:09]  <vleon> yeah arch doesnt use x by default, it doesnt use anything, you choose what to use
 [22:45:05]  <vleon> are x-docs suppose to be in pdf?
 [22:45:42]  <ajax> yay choice.
 [22:45:58]  <ajax> i think the build emits them as gzipped postscript by default
 [22:46:12]  <vleon> well yeah taught me how fun command line could be actually
 [22:46:20]  <vleon> ok
 [22:46:24]  <vleon> thanks for the help
 [22:46:57]  <ajax> np
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[23:27:24]  <vleon> xorg documents are either messy or the version i found is quite old
 [23:27:33]  <ajax> both.
 [23:27:58]  <vleon> http://xfree86.org/current/specindex.html <- those arent the latest docs right?
 [23:28:28]  <vleon> i really hope they arent ive got spoiled by well documented projects :/
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[23:36:02]  <vleon> I'm lost here
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[23:40:40]  <vleon> there are so many wm's out there, how did people managed to find the needed documentation? googling didnt help me find anything more usefull than the link i posted earlier, can anyone please help?
 [23:41:13]  <vleon> maybe some book somewhere?
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[23:59:25]  <freespace> you could look at those wms and see what they are doing?
 [23:59:38]  <vleon> thats what I'm trying to do right now
 [23:59:52]  <freespace> which wm's source code are you looking at?
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----- [2008-09-17] -----
 [00:00:11]  <vleon> i just dont understand how xorg got this far with such a luck of documentation
 [00:00:34]  <vleon> I'm trying to modify only xcompmgr, its small simple
 [00:00:56]  <vleon> and i want to try to understand how true opacity work so i can later try to implent it to openbox
 [00:01:30]  <vleon> right now I'm stripping thing like drop shadows from it
 [00:01:58]  <vleon> but i cant move further without understanding for examle what the tyoe Display mean
 [00:02:45]  <whot^ the connection to the x server?
 [00:03:27]  <vleon> and its quite a pain to try to find a defination in a pdf file without a contex (in the pdf inself) and without a Table of contents even
 [00:03:56]  <vleon> <whot> #include <X11/Xlib.h> #include <X11/Xutil.h> #include <X11/Xatom.h>...
 [00:04:10]  <freespace> maybe http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~cjblazek/main.html will help
 [00:04:26]  <freespace> thats what i used when i was trying to understand the penmount input driver
 [00:04:51]  <freespace> thats not strictly xorg, and it only helps for things xorg and x11 has in common, and has not diverged
 [00:04:56]  <freespace> i can't find a similar thing for xorg
 [00:05:14]  <vleon> thats a lot more then i had up until now
 [00:05:16]  <vleon> THANKS!
 [00:07:00]  <freespace> it should be possible to generate similar documentation for the current xorg tree...
 [00:07:14]  <freespace> might clone current xorg now while i am at uni and have a go actually...
 [00:09:02]  <whot^ set up ctags and cscope, that'll help you a gread deal
 [00:09:12]  <whot> vleon: ^^
 [00:09:31]  <freespace^ nod, been reading about that actually
 [00:15:12]  <whot^ cscope_maps.vim is for winners
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[00:26:40]  <vleon> I'm going nuts
 [00:28:52]  <whot^ join the club :)
 [00:33:13]  <vleon> i hate poor documentation, hate hate hate
 [00:34:01]  <vleon> if i knew that to do what i want to do i would have to spend hours of pointless googeling i wouldnt start that at all
 [00:36:13]  <vleon> and i didnt even mentioning the fact that i could find any documentation at all about  X11/extensions/Xcomposite.h X11/extensions/Xdamage.h X11/extensions/Xrender.h
 [00:36:51]  <whot^ xorg-docs has a few bits and pieces (check on cgit.freedesktop.org)
 [00:48:03]  <vleon> hey great :)
 [00:48:10]  <vleon> but i cant compile them :\
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[00:53:28]  <whot> vleon: most of the specs dont actually compile. there's only so much you can do with text files :)
 [00:54:16]  <vleon> but they are not regular text files O_O
 [00:54:23]  <vleon> i get compling errors
 [00:56:46]  <aaronp> Wow, compiz is chewing up my system.
 [00:57:15]  <aaronp> I wrote a test that creates and destroys (without mapping) 100,000 windows, and compiz as been eating CPU and growing by about a meg a second for several minutes now.
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[01:40:49]  <aaronp> This seems no good: http://rafb.net/p/CNWI8W73.html
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[03:19:02]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
 [03:22:20]  <marcheu> MrCooper: I wouldn't call openmp "low complexity" :)
 [03:23:39]  <MrCooper> certainly lower than using pthreads directly?
 [03:24:02]  <marcheu> well openmp sure is a headache to use...
 [03:24:32]  <MrCooper> I'll take your word for it, I've only read some introductory articles about it
 [03:24:35]  <marcheu> the problem (IMO) is that the code becomes very fragile after inserting the directives, especially because of the visibility
 [03:25:14]  <MrCooper> gcc auto-parallelization to the rescue! ;)
 [03:26:04]  <marcheu> hmmm right. reminds me of the old SGI cc, which would do "auto parallelization" by inserting openmp directives automatically, and fuckup every time
 [03:39:24]  <dagb^ that used to be the core competence of SGI upper management as well.
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[03:41:34]  <daniels> whot: forgot what i wanted to ask you, sorry
 [03:46:28]  <whot> hehe
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[04:28:29]  <wereHamster> aaronp: did you send that backtrace to the compiz guys?
 [04:35:10]  <maniac103^ which backtrace?
 [04:36:28]  <wereHamster^ http://rafb.net/p/CNWI8W73.html
 [04:37:16]  <wereHamster> might not be entirely compiz's fault, but you do have a potential memory leak in getWindowType()
 [04:37:18]  <maniac103^ this backtrace should rather be sent to xcb guys
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[04:38:02]  <maniac103> wereHamster: potential memleak as in n == 0?
 [04:38:13]  <wereHamster> yes
 [04:38:18]  <maniac103> right
 [04:38:23]  <maniac103> a tiny memleak, though
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[04:38:30]  <maniac103> will fix it nevertheless ;-)
 [04:38:32]  <wereHamster> it should be if (result == Success) {
 [04:39:31]  <wereHamster> or rather, XFree if result == Success and memcpy if result == Success && n >= sizeof(Atom)
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[04:41:50]  <maniac103> wereHamster: right
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[04:52:02]  <JohnFlux3> Hey y'all
 [05:02:56]  <maniac103> wereHamster: fixed
 [05:03:47]  <maniac103> a window setting the window type property without specifying a type is weird, though ;-)
 [05:17:01]  <tjaalton> svu: ping? are the xkb symbols loaded in wrong order perhaps? if a user has "pc+br+inet(evdev)", does it mean that they are loaded on that order? If yes, inet(evdev) overrides AB11 which breaks things
 [05:17:31]  <tjaalton> perhaps it should be I211 instead
 [05:17:40]  <tjaalton> (in inet(evdev))
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[06:11:39]  <maniac103> can I somehow force the X server to set out PropertyNotify events back to me even though I changed the property (and created the window) myself?
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----- Log file opened 2008-09-17T09:19 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-09-17T09:18 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-09-17T09:47 -----
[09:47:23]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
[09:47:23]  ***  You are now participating in the #xorg-devel discussion. Checking for current participants...
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[11:23:55]  <jg> ping whot
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----- Log file closed 2008-09-17T11:37 -----
 
----- Log file opened 2008-09-17T11:37 -----
[11:37:22]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
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[12:11:29]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
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[12:11:29]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp agd5f aggelos ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc-away alanc_away anderco arun b0le Battousai bbyer bernie bgoglin bobbens bryce buggs cavassin cbrake cjb coling CosmicPenguin crossbuilder ctyler cworth dagb darktama_ dberkholz Dodji dottedmag Dr_Jakob DrNick ds dwmw2_gone egbert_away emmes fijnman fredrikh freespace gabriel_ glisse gordon_jin GuentherB gustaf1 gw280 hachi halfline halfline_ Herman Ingmar jay-away jbarnes jcristau johnflux keithp kem krh kylem___ libv libvde londo_onholidays Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu marvil07 math_b Mercury mjg59 mpr MrCooper mvo ndim ohsix onestone Ori_B osiris__ otavio pcpa pete__c pjones Primer Q-FUNK reduz revx rnoland rtcm rvalles SLeezy- solarion soren spstarr_desk sputnik66 stillunknown stringfellow svu svu_ t4bz TBBle tcoppi tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos unidinph vignatti vtorri Wallbraker wereHamster wgrant whot z3ro Zarin zeq Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
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[12:13:29]  ***  Topic for #xorg-devel: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes | xserver 1.5.0 released. tequila all around. | 2747 files changed, 178062 insertions(+), 628051 deletions(-).
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[12:13:29]  ***  Users on #xorg-devel: aaronp agd5f aggelos ahelon ahf airlied ajax alanc-away alanc_away anderco arun b0le Battousai bbyer bernie bgoglin bobbens bryce buggs cavassin cbrake cjb coling CosmicPenguin crossbuilder ctyler cworth dagb darktama_ dberkholz Dodji dottedmag Dr_Jakob DrNick ds dwmw2_gone egbert_away emmes fijnman fredrikh freespace gabriel_ glisse gordon_jin GuentherB gustaf1 gw280 hachi halfline Herman Ingmar jay-away jbarnes jcristau johnflux keithp kem krh kylem___ libv libvde londo_onholidays Lrrr MacSlow malc0 malouin maniac103 marcheu marvil07 math_b Mercury mjg59 mpr MrCooper mvo ndim ohsix onestone Ori_B osiris__ otavio pcpa pete__c pjones Primer Q-FUNK reduz revx rnoland rtcm rvalles SLeezy- solarion soren spstarr_desk sputnik66 stillunknown stringfellow svu svu_ t4bz TBBle tcoppi tilman tjaalton TMM torindel Turmlos unidinph vignatti vtorri Wallbraker wereHamster wgrant whot z3ro Zarin zeq Zhenech zhenyuw zuh
[12:24:19]  <aaronp> wereHamster: It turned out to be a leak in libX11-xcb when it gets protocol errors.
 [12:24:33]  <aaronp> I sent it to the xcb list but it looks like it's stuck in the mod queue because I'm not subscribed.
 [12:25:31]  <aaronp> There's still a big leak in compiz with that testcase, though, bug valgrind isn't finding it.
 [12:27:11]  <jcristau^ is it http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17616
 [12:27:24]  <jcristau> ?
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[12:28:06]  <aaronp> jcristau: Yeah, looks like it.
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[12:29:42]  <aaronp> Eww, that patch is broken in the BadFont case.
 [12:30:28]  <jcristau> ajax: ^^
 [12:31:13]  <maniac103> aaronp: I fixed the memleak for the "property set, but without elements" in the meantime, although I'm not sure how relevant that case is
 [12:31:33]  <aaronp> Quite a coincidence that Matthias tracked this down with libklavier the same day I tracked it down with compiz.
 [12:32:02]  <maniac103^ tracking driver memleaks? :)
 [12:32:25]  <aaronp> There are no driver memleaks.  :P
 [12:32:37]  <maniac103^ sure, we all know that ;-)
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[12:34:35]  <aaronp> Compiz's deferred window freeing code is a bit wonky.
 [12:35:33]  <aaronp> It seems to get slower every time you create and destroy a window if you don't give it a chance to actually free them.
 [12:36:00]  <aaronp> I suspect it's putting the window on the end of the list, then scanning the whole list to find it again and mark it destroyed.
 [12:37:52]  <aaronp> Not that it's a case that would ever actually occur in practice, it just makes it hard to test for memory leaks because it seriously limits the rate at which you can create and destroy windows without making compiz eat your CPU for an hour.
 [12:38:37]  <maniac103^ heh, indeed ... src/display.c:1752 onwards pretty much looks like that
 [12:39:00]  <wereHamster+ you might want to try xcompmgr instead of compiz. It still uses the tfp extension and all that stuff, just with less crap around it
 [12:39:20]  <maniac103+ loop as often as there are destroyed windows over all windows until finding a destroyed one
 [12:41:37]  <marcheu> xcompmgr doesn't use tfp
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[12:44:46]  <wereHamster> marcheu: hm. So how does it do the compositing?
 [12:45:27]  <marcheu> you can do compositing without gl, you know
 [12:45:31]  <marcheu> for example, with render
 [12:46:53]  <marcheu> in that case, you don't have to turn the pixmap into a texture, because you use pixmaps as input for xrender already
 [12:46:59]  <marcheu> so, no need for tfp
 [12:49:10]  <stillunknown> cworth: ping
 [12:50:18]  <wereHamster> oh well, then there's glxcompmgr which does use opengl
 [12:53:38]  <ajax> jcristau: ooh, it is.
 [12:53:47]  <ajax> good eye
 [12:54:33]  <cworth> stillunknown: pong
 [12:55:34]  <stillunknown^ Are you familiar with the edge rasterisation functions in pixman?
 [12:55:53]  <cworth^ yes
 [12:56:15]  <cworth> Impressively slow stuff, (written quickly for "correctness").
 [12:56:34]  <stillunknown> What's the idea behind the N_X_FRAC and N_Y_FRAC macros?
 [12:56:34]  <cworth> (Though, it's really not high-quality either, so "correct" may be too unkind.)
 [12:57:05]  <cworth> stillunknown: It's all just stepping to grid-points on a 17x15 sub-pixel grid.
 [12:57:16]  <stillunknown> but why 17x15?
 [12:57:47]  <ajax> because that's 255, which is the number of steps of alpha you have.
 [12:57:48]  <cworth> stillunknown: 17*15=255 so we get 255 possible alpha values that way
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[12:58:01]  <cworth> (But a uniform grid is really a bad idea for high-quality.)
 [12:59:54]  <stillunknown> Also, what is different between a BigStep and a SmallStep, because it looks like it'll always call BigStep once the small steps are over?
 [13:02:14]  <stillunknown> @cworth
 [13:03:09]  <stillunknown> Also, because you say it's impressively slow, what kind of algoritm would you use instead?
 [13:03:35]  <stillunknown> *algorithm
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[13:07:23]  <ajax> libX11 fixed
 [13:12:54]  <stillunknown> cworth: It also seems like a codepath that cairo uses often, which makes me wonder why it hasn't recieved (more) optimisation.
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[13:22:24]  <stillunknown> brb
 [13:23:57]  <stillunknown> back
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[13:28:25]  <cworth> stillunknown: I think a big step is stepping to the next pixel and a small step is stepping to the next sub-pixel grid row.
 [13:29:22]  <stillunknown^ Are you purely talking of the anti aliasing algo?
 [13:29:52]  <cworth^ The idea I've had for a faster algorithm is something that uses quantized pixel entry points and a pre-generated lookup table for coverage values based on randomized sample points, (Poisson disc perhaps?).
 [13:30:22]  <cworth> One reason I haven't pursued a faster software implementation is that we instead want the GPU to be doing the rasterization.
 [13:31:13]  <stillunknown> I tried that, but without serious luck, so i figured i'd look at the software algo more closely.
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[13:33:33]  <stillunknown> cworth: My idea was adding a trapezoid shaped composite function, using a single opaque repeated pixel as source to composite onto the mask.
 [13:34:15]  <stillunknown> And using that from RasterizeTrapezoid
 [13:34:18]  <cworth^ I don't follow.
 [13:35:08]  <stillunknown> From what i see all non-rectangular primitives are created using alpha masks.
 [13:35:23]  <cworth> Yes.
 [13:35:36]  <cworth> The edge rasterization is what is used to create the mask.
 [13:36:06]  <cworth> Oh, you just mean doing the compositing at the same time?
 [13:36:09]  <stillunknown> It should be possible to do a drop in replacement if you add a driver function that handles the trapezoid shape.
 [13:36:15]  <cworth> Without the intermediate mask?
 [13:36:35]  <stillunknown> Without the intermediate mask would be possible too.
 [13:36:51]  <stillunknown> But that would require a significant change to render proto.
 [13:37:51]  <cworth^ Depends if the application is using CompositeTrapezoids (like cairo does) or AddTraps;Composite.
 [13:38:49]  <stillunknown> I thought add trap also created an alpha mask?
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[13:44:50]  <fredrikh> stillunknown: i think anholt tried this, but it turned out to be slower than rasterizing the mask in software
 [13:46:01]  <stillunknown> Maybe render should be adjusted to support primitives in a normal way.
 [13:46:56]  <fredrikh> well the reason tessellation is done in the client is that it's expensive and the server is single threaded
 [13:47:22]  <fredrikh> so if you have to fall back to software, interactivity will take a hit
 [13:47:45]  <stillunknown> It happens in pixman atm, which is called from the server.
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[13:48:25]  <fredrikh> of course if you could pause the client and do it in a separate thread, it would be a good idea
 [13:49:00]  <fredrikh> there was actually a discussion about this on the xorg list yesterday
 [13:49:42]  <stillunknown> I don't see what kind of hit it would take, considering it's already sw atm.
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[13:51:49]  <stillunknown> I get about 2000/s for (roughly) 50x50 trapezoids with colored lines around them.
 [13:52:07]  <stillunknown> But that's only when my cpu is idle.
 [13:54:39]  <stillunknown> (it's 4 edged poly's actually)
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[14:04:34]  <izike> hi, i am experiencing big performance difference when using cairo xlib surfaces with verses graphics cards , it look like for ati and nvidia the performance are even slower than image surface and XORG take about 80% cpu, but for intel it work very fast and all is good, i feel that for some reason in nvidia and ati the ~stretch~ is made by software, anything i can do about it?
 [14:05:48]  <cworth^ So in driver-speak, that probably translates to "ati performance is slow with Composite and a non-identity transformation matrix".
 [14:06:06]  <cworth> It's possible that there's a software fallback happening where there shouldn't be.
 [14:06:52]  <cworth> Some of the drivers have mechanisms for reporting fallbacks in debug output, (but I think those generally require recompiling the driver with some option enabled).
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[14:14:30]  <aaronp> izike: For NVIDIA, use the latest beta driver, which supports hardware transforms.
 [14:16:41]  <ajax> cworth: yeah, i'm hoping to get a chance to pick up the xres performance stuff i did last year for lca and integrate driver fallback counters with it
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[14:16:53]  <ajax> or, to have someone else pick it up for me
 [14:16:55]  <cworth^ That would be sweet!
 [14:17:48]  <stillunknown> xres being?
 [14:17:54]  <ajax> the X Resource extension
 [14:18:50]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/lca2008.pdf
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[14:27:45]  <jcristau> mwahahahaha bug#17635
 [14:28:45]  <ajax> i am running freebszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzSNRK HUH OH I'M AWAKE SORRY
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[14:38:16]  <fredrikh> stillunknown: well if you give the server the path instead of trapezoids it can render the path using stencil clipping, but if the driver can't do that you'd be forced to tessellate the path in the server
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[14:49:03]  <vignatti> seems that other server generations besides the first is broken
 [14:49:26]  <ajax> really want to remove regeneration.
 [14:49:34]  <ajax> really.  really.  want to remove regeneration.
 [14:50:21]  <keithp^ yeah, no reason to do much other than reset some root state and free a bunch of resources
 [14:50:31]  <anholt> please, please kill regeneration
 [14:50:36]  <vignatti> ajax: yeah. Is there some real problem there which we cannot remove it now?
 [14:51:05]  <keithp> anholt: we'll be creating new code paths for clean up, which means they'll break, but presumably those will be entirely DIX based
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[14:51:29]  <anholt> as long as every single driver doesn't have to worry about (and fail at) regen, I'll be happy
 [14:51:36]  <ajax> the hardest part to deal with, i think, is the vt state
 [14:51:39]  <keithp> I think we can get there at least
 [14:51:45]  <ajax> right now we attempt to switch back to the one we started from
 [14:51:52]  <keithp^ yeah, we shouldn't do any VT mangling at regen
 [14:51:58]  <vignatti> well, I'll keep my work without bother with other generations :)
 [14:52:01]  <ajax> if we did regen as execve(), we'd have to switch back and then forward.
 [14:52:18]  <ajax> the other option is to just remove it and set the default to -terminate, of course
 [14:53:10]  <keithp^ -terminate or -noreset
 [14:53:27]  <keithp> I don't think resetting the DIX state would be hard though; there's not that much
 [14:53:29]  <ajax^ remind me how you terminate with -noreset?  XKillClient on the root window?
 [14:53:32]  <vignatti> noreset seems the obvious, don't?
 [14:53:39]  <ajax> (besides c-a-b)
 [14:53:46]  <keithp^ kill with a signal
 [14:53:55]  <keithp> gdm knows how to do that
 [14:54:22]  <ajax> good enough for me
 [14:54:56]  <keithp^ still, just peruse the protocol manual and look for 'server reset' and make those work in DIX, leaving DDX alone
 [14:54:57]  <halfline> if you did regen as execve, you could just stuff the initial vt in an environment variable
 [14:57:05]  <ajax> halfline: true
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[15:19:01]  <vignatti> "Module Loader present"
 [15:19:28]  <vignatti> why do we need this message when the server starts?
 [15:19:43]  <ajax> we don't
 [15:19:54]  <ajax> remember when it used to be optional?  bad times.
 [15:20:39]  <keithp^ still wake up at night sweating?
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[15:21:15]  <ajax> i still haven't atoned for all the crimes committed in the name of dlloader
 [15:21:28]  <ajax> all the xf86BlahBlahWeak() crap is just lame
 [15:21:42]  <vignatti> heh
 [15:21:58]  <ajax> what i'd really like
 [15:22:13]  <ajax> is to link the server as a PIE object
 [15:22:20]  <keithp> mmm. pie
 [15:22:23]  <ajax> so drivers could link against it like they link against libraries
 [15:22:36]  <ajax> and to have the drivers link against libfb and friends too
 [15:22:59]  <ajax> that way you could resolve all this crap at ld time, and we wouldn't need the blahWeak() hacks
 [15:23:26]  <ajax> the whole idea of linking against an executable is still weird though
 [15:23:46]  <ajax> gcc -R/usr/bin -o radeon_drv.so *.o /usr/bin/Xorg
 [15:23:50]  <ajax> *twitch*
 [15:26:55]  <vignatti^ what blahWeak() hacks?
 [15:27:10]  <ajax> for example:
 [15:27:14]  <ajax> DDC1SetSpeedProc  vgaHWddc1SetSpeedWeak(void) { return vgaHWddc1SetSpeed; }
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[15:27:16]  <spstarr_work> erm
 [15:27:20]  <spstarr_work> any reason http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/xkb/ddxVT.c exists?
 [15:28:08]  <ajax> vignatti: the way ELF works, if you take the address of a symbol, it has to exist when the module is loaded (either exec or dlopen)
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[15:28:57]  <ajax> function references you can do lazily; the loader walks through the undefined symbols in the module you've loaded, and if they're not resolvable, it fixes them up to point to a lazy resolver function
 [15:29:29]  <ajax> which could then fail at runtime, and if it does you just abort, but it might succeed and then hey, victory
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[15:30:02]  <ajax> data references (which includes taking the address of a symbol), however, have to resolve immediately, since there's no way to redirect them to a resolver function
 [15:31:09]  <ajax> the data is in-line with the instruction stream, there's no way to change a 'mov %eax foo' to 'call _dl_sym_resolver, mov %eax %ebx'
 [15:31:12]  <ajax> there's just no room
 [15:31:33]  <ajax> so, if you want to pass a function in as an argument to some other function
 [15:32:18]  <ajax> you have to be able to get its address _late_, after loading
 [15:32:31]  <vignatti> humm. got it
 [15:32:42]  <vignatti> never thought about this. makes perfectly sense
 [15:33:18]  <ajax> ELF isn't unique in this regard, all the other major binary formats have similar requirements
 [15:34:22]  <ajax> but the old elf loader didn't implement this check.  it just applied fixups every time a module was loaded, and if you walked into an unresolved fixup, you just aborted.
 [15:34:49]  <ajax> libdl is just more demanding
 [15:35:23]  <vignatti> i'm trying to imagine how the loader resolves symbols that are undefined on the run
 [15:35:28]  <ajax> small price to pay to be rid of a huge pile of code nobody understood, but, well, i was young and i needed the money.
 [15:35:43]  <vignatti> huh
 [15:35:59]  <ajax> well, like i said
 [15:36:04]  <DrNick> vignatti: when you call a function in a shared library, you aren't actually calling the function, you're calling a stub in the PLT (procedure linkage table)
 [15:36:43]  <vignatti> right
 [15:36:58]  <ajax> that slot in the plt can either point to the implementation of that function call, or to a resolver function in ld.so that goes and finds it, patches up the plt, then passes the call through.
 [15:37:05]  <DrNick> the PLT entry is just a little function that calls a function pointer
 [15:37:55]  <DrNick> with lazy linking, all those function pointers are initialized to point to the resolver function, which does the link and then changes the saved function pointer for that PLT entry
 [15:38:04]  <vignatti> and if that function doesn't exists at all then the program fail at runtime. cool
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[15:57:55]  <vignatti> beginner's question:
 [15:58:13]  <vignatti> what's the problem of do not free any resources before close a program in C?
 [15:58:30]  <vignatti> (besides valgrind complains)
 [16:00:15]  <vignatti> ajax: if we remove regen code then everything after Dispatch() could be removed as well? :)
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[16:17:03]  <alanc> vignatti: if the program exits quickly and doesn't stay around for hours, not much beyond memory leak checkers whining
 [16:18:04]  <vignatti> indeed
 [16:18:05]  <alanc> so not free()'ing stuff in things like xset that run for a fraction of a second is no big deal, unless you want to use xset as a test for finding leaks in something like libX11 or libXext
 [16:18:53]  <alanc> not free()ing stuff in the X server though, makes our bugzilla fill up
 [16:19:07]  <vignatti> heh
 [16:19:09]  <DrNick> or you decide that you want to make xset's features available from a shared library, and suddenly your shared library leaks every time it's called
 [16:19:36]  <alanc> yeah, that's one of the challenges of the xkbcomp -> libxkbcomp plan
 [16:20:32]  <alanc> (I looked at that a little during XDS - there's several places xkbcomp says "I dunno what to do, so I'll just exit" that definitely have to be changed before making it into libxkbcomp)
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[16:22:30]  <ajax> heehee
 [16:22:53]  <ajax> ms lets you register pnp ids.  no one's taken XXX.
 [16:24:13]  <aaronp> Anyone know why server 1.5 would be using ProcXvShmPutImage when server 1.4 used ProcXvDispatch instead?
 [16:24:29]  <aaronp> It's causing ugly tearing artifacts.
 [16:25:51]  <ajax> those aren't the same thing...
 [16:26:58]  <ajax> i normalized xv dispatch in 0fff01f5660fb3bb9284f97c45dc76154435d02b, but all that should have done is fix xinerama'd xv when the server and client are different endianness
 [16:28:29]  <aaronp> My server seems to be lacking debug info, so I'll have to rebuild it.
 [16:30:09]  <ajax> but yeah, ProcXvDispatch does table-based dispatch instead of switch-based now
 [16:30:58]  <ajax> a visual inspection of the table versus the protocol request numbers shows that i didn't get two slots mixed up or anything, so.  hmm.
 [16:34:15]  <stillunknown> Any idea what this is in (in oprofile resulst)?
 [16:34:19]  <stillunknown> 31707     9.5045  [vdso] (tgid:3510 range:0x7fff673ff000-0x7fff67400000) Xorg                     [vdso] (tgid:3510 range:0x7fff673ff000-0x7fff67400000)
 [16:34:59]  <DrNick> syscall entry/exit
 [16:35:34]  <DrNick> or some of the vsyscalls, like gettimeofday
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[16:51:42]  <ajax> joy
 [16:51:53]  <ajax> displayid doesn't define what i2c address you're supposed to talk to to find it
 [16:52:12]  <aaronp^ It looks like mplayer is calling XvShmPutImage with send_event=FALSE and just continuing.  Is that a valid thing for it to be doing?
 [16:52:30]  <ajax> yes
 [16:52:57]  <aaronp> so who's responsible for ensuring that the server's done reading the frame before you change it?
 [16:53:14]  <ajax> mplayer is ;)
 [16:53:38]  <ajax> typically what send_event=FALSE means is that you've got two shm segments you're flipping between
 [16:53:58]  <ajax> and you set the appropriate port attribute to guarantee vsync
 [16:59:18]  <ajax> if they're not doing that, well, silly mplayer.
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[17:00:20]  <aaronp> Okay, so I guess I have to figure out both why mplayer's behavior changes by server and why ShmPutImage is corrupting it.
 [17:00:23]  <aaronp> wonderful
 [17:01:51]  <ajax> if i had to guess, it's something to do with mplayer's use of backing store
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[17:33:15]  <aaronp> ajax: Yeah, turns out server 1.4's lack of debug info confused me, and it really is using XvShmPutImage there too
 [17:33:24]  <aaronp> so something's just screwed up with the synchronization in 1.5.
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[17:43:44]  <rtcm> aaronp: so that's the bug I reported on nvnews about the diagonal tear line?
 [17:44:03]  <aaronp^ Yeah
 [17:44:06]  <rtcm^ I can try with a newish mplayer, the one I've got is quite old now
 [17:45:11]  <stillunknown> Isn't it the driver task to handle sync to vblank?
 [17:45:15]  <stillunknown> *driver's
 [17:45:33]  <aaronp^ It's syncing to vblank just fine, it's just that the shm buffer is changing from under it.
 [17:46:42]  <aaronp> also, the way the driver draws the frames doesn't tear diagonally.
 [17:47:30]  <stillunknown> Diagonally may happen if a quad is drawn as two tri's.
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[17:49:29]  <stillunknown> I also doubt that a shm buffer is updated in a way that causes diagional tearing.
 [17:50:02]  <aaronp^ You're right.  Turns out the mplayer window is CompositeRedirectAutomatic'd.
 [17:50:32]  <rtcm^ like I told you, it's much less noticeable when the chip goes up to 400 MHz
 [17:50:41]  <rtcm> FWIW
 [17:50:48]  <ajax> aaronp: which is the backing-store rewrite at play
 [17:50:51]  <aaronp> Yep
 [17:51:25]  <aaronp> So how does that interact with the [+-]bs options?
 [17:51:43]  <aaronp> because the driver is reporting that backing store is disabled in the log file.
 [17:52:12]  <ajax> badly?
 [17:53:20]  <aaronp> Okay, so backingStore != NotUseful ==> CompositeRedirectAutomatic regardless of the global backing store toggle, then?
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[17:57:28]  <ajax> i think that's how it ended up, yeah.
 [17:57:44]  <ajax> i think bs is going away entirely in 1.6 though, unless someone talks me out of it.
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[18:01:22]  <aaronp> Okay.  So maybe a reasonable interim solution would be to fix up RENDER Composite calls to not tear and then just tell people that XV + backingStore = no sync to vblank when they complain about the inevitable horizontal tearing.
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[18:07:24]  <stillunknown> But if composite is synced, then why wouldn't xv be?
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[18:36:40]  <aaronp> stillunknown: Composite isn't synced.
 [18:39:37]  <aaronp> Aargh.  disableBackingStore + enableBackingStore = wtf
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[19:06:47]  <aaronp> ajax: http://people.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/patches/Conditionalize-Composite-based-backing-store.patch
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[19:18:28]  <josephcohen> Contribution question regarding documentation of XDMCP. Currently we are implementing from scratch our own XDM / XDMCP daemon for various reasons. After reading the XDMCP.PS document from your cvs tree I have noticed it was lacking some information that I found important such as a flow chart of the packet's relationships. I have put my current design up on our website but I am wondering if I could finish that diagram off if i
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[19:23:50]  <josephcohen> The very rough draft and incomplete diagram can be found here: http://www.aquaconnect.net/?p=400
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[19:58:40]  <ajax> josephcohen: we love people who write docs.
 [19:59:15]  <ajax> aaronp: i approve, go for it.
 [19:59:31]  <ajax> josephcohen: we don't necessarily love xdmcp, but hey ;)
 [20:01:04]  <aaronp^ Thanks, done.
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[20:03:27]  <ajax> i should probably pull that into the next 1.5 server
 [20:03:34]  <ajax> once i, you know, do another one.
 [20:04:10]  <jcristau> aaronp pushed it to 1.5-branch already
 [20:04:21]  <ajax> but i refuse to rel-eng anything at 8pm on a three year old laptop
 [20:04:38]  <ajax> work/life balance or something
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[21:44:01]  <josephcohen> ok back
 [21:44:06]  <josephcohen> sorry guys
 [21:44:51]  <josephcohen> So in other words you like docs
 [21:44:52]  <josephcohen>
[21:45:21]  <josephcohen> Did you check out the diagram? Is it useful? Do you want me to complete it and send you guys the completed version?
 [21:45:33]  <ajax^ i did, i think so, and yes please.
 [21:46:32]  <josephcohen> ok, I'll complete it then
 [21:47:09]  <josephcohen> do you guys need some sort of release from my company saying it can be included in your stuff, and its XXXX licensed?
 [21:47:31]  <josephcohen> I don't mind it being free, public domain, etc
 [21:48:02]  <josephcohen> I have not contributed to your project before so I have no idea what the process is
 [21:48:14]  <ajax> typically we assume people giving us contributions understand open source and are authorized to do so
 [21:48:21]  <ajax> "good faith" and all that.
 [21:48:25]  <josephcohen> thats fine
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[21:49:10]  <ajax> if you want to be totally 100% sure, we'll be happy to take release forms from lawyers or whatever, but most people don't.
 [21:49:10]  <josephcohen> just an fyi we are releasing parts of program in the near future as dual licensed gpl and pay, other parts will be just closed source
 [21:49:17]  <ajax> sure.
 [21:49:41]  <josephcohen> the xdmcp doc is a "no strings attached" thing
 [21:49:45]  <ajax> X is quite used to being a commercial product half the time
 [21:50:10]  <josephcohen> fine I'll get you the finished version soon, where should I send it, etc?
 [21:50:39]  <ajax> xorg@lists.freedesktop.org is the One True List atm
 [21:50:42]  <josephcohen> do you want format do you want it in, we are using omni graffle to create it so pdf, tiff
 [21:50:46]  <josephcohen> ok
 [21:51:08]  <josephcohen> , typed too fast, what format do you guys want it in?
 [21:52:32]  <ajax> svg if you can swing it, pdf if not
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[21:53:00]  <josephcohen> let me try svg
 [21:56:26]  <josephcohen> Btw in case you wondering we make the terminal server piece for the Mac OS X server, our older tiger version supported XDMCP via the X.Org 6.9 XDM (unmodified). But now our leopard version is coming out soon and we had to make a custom XDM from scratch to avoid code taint, etc and so I looked at the XDMCP docs and found them to be useful but lacking, so I wanted to flush them out, especially since we support XDMCP (X11), VNC
[21:56:34]  <josephcohen> btw SVG works
 [21:56:48]  <josephcohen> so I'll finish it up and send it to the mailing list
 [21:57:37]  <ajax> huh.  mit licensed code considered "code taint".
 [21:57:43]  <ajax> that's a new level of paranoia on me ;)
 [21:57:51]  <josephcohen>
[21:57:56]  <josephcohen> blame Apple execs
 [21:58:17]  <josephcohen> I'm NOT an Apple exec
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[22:02:45]  <ajax> wacky
 [22:03:04]  <ajax> but i'm more than prepared to believe that apple legal is loony toons
 [22:03:15]  <josephcohen> yeah
 [22:03:44]  <josephcohen> they are a bit more paranoid then I'm use too, it could be because we have some of their source
 [22:05:47]  <josephcohen> Do you guys want some of our annotated packet dumps too, relating to XDMCP?
 [22:05:51]  <ajax> so when you say terminal services, how does that work?  does that mean you run an X session on the server and connect to it like normal XDMCP, or does it export quartz sessions too?
 [22:06:08]  <josephcohen> complete mac desktop, finder, dock, apps, etc
 [22:06:19]  <josephcohen> over RDP, X11 and VNC protocols
 [22:06:46]  <josephcohen> each user isolated from one another in a fashion simillar to linux's LTSP or window's TS
 [22:06:51]  <josephcohen> similar*
 [22:07:15]  <ajax> does the X11 transport work by making one huge window and re-rendering into it, or do you mirror the quartz window tree?
 [22:07:24]  <ajax> not really a tree i suppose.
 [22:07:31]  <ajax> sorry, professional interest here ;)
 [22:07:35]  <josephcohen>
[22:07:51]  <bbyer> heh
 [22:07:54]  <josephcohen> hybrid, some widgets are skinned so that X11 handles them like widgets and some are just bitmaps
 [22:08:07]  <ajax> (re packet dumps: not really)
 [22:08:07]  <josephcohen> depends on the widget
 [22:08:12]  <josephcohen> k
 [22:08:24]  <ajax> neat.
 [22:08:40]  <bbyer> Apple execs claim MIT license taints?
 [22:08:43]  <josephcohen> thanks, our team has increased 4x after our initial release
 [22:08:48]  <josephcohen> no no,
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[22:09:17]  <josephcohen> Apple execs claim any NON-clean room implementation can taint so don't reuse ANY code.
 [22:09:28]  <ajax> phoo
 [22:09:34]  <ajax> i like life on my side of the fence beter
 [22:09:36]  <bbyer> that's a new one to me
 [22:09:38]  <ajax> better, too
 [22:09:39]  <josephcohen>
[22:10:09]  <josephcohen> it is what it is, if it was something that fell into the darwin side it would be fine to reuse code but since we fall into the CoreGraphics side they are a bit paranoid
 [22:10:37]  <ajax> understandable
 [22:10:55]  <josephcohen> Its more like they want to be safe and don't mind paying the programmers to do extra
 [22:11:16]  <ajax> i mean, it's a tradeoff either way, right.  i play in open code all day, but i also have to deal with X instead of a good window system
 [22:11:57]  <josephcohen> I do have to admit that the internal windowing system is a lot nicer then anything I have seen in the linux world
 [22:12:05]  <josephcohen> my opinion
 [22:12:19]  <ajax> even what i've seen of it from the outside, i'd agree
 [22:12:22]  <ajax> but you'd hope so
 [22:12:34]  <ajax> if they hadn't learned anything in twenty years of window systems i'd be disappointed.
 [22:12:45]  <josephcohen> yeah
 [22:19:01]  <ajax> anyway, i'm off for the night
 [22:19:08]  <ajax> thanks for the dox!
 [22:19:21]  <josephcohen> no problem
 [22:19:28]  <josephcohen> you guys should get it in a day or two
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[03:07:09]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[06:16:58]  <johnflux> daniels: did you have a look at my patches btw?
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[12:47:28]  <jcristau> cjb: ENOSPC on bombadil, fwiw
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[12:48:45]  <cjb> danke
 [12:48:59]  <cjb> looks better now
 [12:49:11]  <jcristau> thanks
 [12:49:23]  <cjb> btw, I pushed some new tests to construct
 [12:49:33]  <cjb> so it actually runs the server now, they're at the end of the run
 [12:50:18]  <jcristau> nice
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[16:11:25]  <Kano> hi, how are the permissions controlled of this device:  /dev/dri/card0
 [16:12:39]  <Kano> from a kernel module or from x driver?
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[16:16:19]  <agd5f> Kano: usually by udev
 [16:16:32]  <agd5f> or policykit or whatever the latest thing is
 [16:23:20]  <jcristau> it's set by libdrm, in released versions
 [16:24:13]  <Kano^ so basically in the driver not in the kernel module
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[17:37:54]  <gw280> so
 [17:38:14]  <gw280> if I have a bunch of ConfigureNotify events being sent in a short time period (ie - if someone changes the size of a window by dragging the border)
 [17:38:29]  <gw280> how do I filter out all but the final one?
 [17:39:59]  <ajax> typically you don't do it that way
 [17:39:59]  <fredrikh> gw280: XCheckTypedWindowEvent
 [17:40:08]  <ajax> http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-1.3.html#id2507963
 [17:41:35]  <ajax> CTWE will show you all the events of a type already in your queue though
 [17:42:01]  <gw280^ right
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[17:47:20]  <stillunknown> gw280: perhaps it's better to modify the window manager to not send so many resize events in the first place
 [17:48:07]  <gw280^ well that seems to be what XSync does :D
 [17:50:13]  <ajax> you could reasonably throttle it to one every 16ms anyway
 [17:50:54]  <stillunknown> Or do none at all, until the mouse is released, if performance is the main concern.
 [17:51:13]  <gw280^ hrm, yes, that would be the best method
 [17:51:40]  <gw280> basically, I want to avoid doing anything until the mouse is released as it's sending VNC resize requests to the server, and I want to avoid doing that too often
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[17:53:09]  <gw280> stillunknown: any idea what the best way of doing that would be?
 [17:54:12]  <stillunknown> I'm not that familiar with xlib.
 [17:54:26]  <gw280> ajax? :)
 [17:56:19]  <ajax> oh, to resize the vnc framebuffer?
 [17:56:21]  <ajax> ouch.
 [17:56:51]  <ajax> i'm not sure offhand.  i have a bus to catch though; i'll see if i've thought of something by the time i get home.
 [17:56:54]  <gw280^ yeah
 [17:56:57]  <gw280> thanks
[17:57:47]  <stillunknown> You could grab the server while resizing, but that'll stop event processing all together.
 [17:58:04]  <stillunknown> (it seems to be discouraged)
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[18:13:39]  <Kazuo> hello, I'm looking for pointers on creating a small program that notifies window redraws. Can anyone help me? Is it possible to create this program? Any hints?
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[18:16:17]  <DrNick> Kazuo: you want to be notified when the contents of a window changes?
 [18:16:33]  <DrNick> if so, that's what the Damage extension is for
 [18:17:09]  <Kazuo^ that's right
 [18:17:26]  <Kazuo> thank you very much for that!
 [18:17:35]  <Kazuo> I'll look into it.
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[19:10:55]  <ajax> gw280: so i guess it depends on what you mean by "too often", and if you have any way of knowing when the contained vnc window has finished resizing.
 [19:11:58]  <gw280^ would it be possible to just do it when the mouse button is undepressed?
 [19:12:27]  <ajax^ if you can get that event, sure.  but i don't know if you do; the wm might eat it.
 [19:14:13]  <ajax> some light poking with xev isn't showing me button events
 [19:14:21]  <ajax> (when resizing the xev window)
 [19:14:39]  <ajax> but does show a focus-out when the border is grabbed and a focus-in when it's released
 [19:15:17]  <ajax> i don't know how reliable that'd be, but "suppress resizes when not focused" seems like it might work okay
 [19:15:50]  <ajax> or at least would do no harm
 [19:19:18]  <ajax> testing with metacity, if it matters.
 [19:22:57]  <daniels^ ym rate-limit resizes to every 250ms at most when not focussed?
 [19:23:51]  <gw280> ajjahrm
 [19:23:55]  <gw280> ajax: hrm
 [19:24:39]  <gw280> alternatively I could have some sort of a crazy timer system whereby it only resizes if 250ms has passed without any resize events coming in?
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[19:29:16]  <josephcohen_AFK> ajax you around?
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[19:31:18]  <josephcohen> my new XDMCP documents can be found here: http://www.aquaconnect.net/?p=400
 [19:31:38]  <josephcohen> in case anyone wants them including a reproduction statement
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[20:13:00]  <benjsc> greetz folks. Is there a clean way to select on events given to the client,  rather than need to busy wait with XPending? I find if I select on ConnectionNumber I get hangs - appears because the events are queued by Xlib even though I've called XFlush
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[20:30:38]  <benjsc> select with a timeout that is, XNext, XPeekEvent all block
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[20:43:35]  <fredrikh> benjsc: look at how xcompmgr does it
 [20:45:57]  <benjsc^ thankx
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[20:54:21]  <imaginator> Hi, do any of you happen to know of an open source app that uses the MULTIPLE selection code?  I'm trying to find an app that uses that with XConvertSelection, rather than something that serves requests for MULTIPLE.
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----- [2008-09-19] -----
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[03:14:45]  <[AD]Turbo> yo all
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[03:30:00]  <whot> svu: ping
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[03:39:19]  <tjaalton> svu: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/100_abnt2_jp106.diff
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[04:39:48]  <whot> svu: unping
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[05:01:28]  <tjaalton> svu: filed #17656
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[09:53:18]  <ajax> error: object directory /home/keithp/src/nxc/proto/damageproto/.git/objects does not exist; check .git/objects/info/alternates.
 [09:53:23]  <ajax> bad keithp
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[10:00:12]  <tjaalton> if I have a linux box with evdev set up and make an xdmcp connection to, say, opensolaris and get an error like "(EE) AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Don't know how to use pEvdev.", is it due to the remote not understanding evdev or what?
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[10:01:39]  <tjaalton> hm, actually it's more complicated..
 [10:02:43]  <tjaalton> apparently it does work against other linux setups
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[10:06:36]  <ajax> i don't see that string in the evdev driver in git
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[10:07:23]  <tjaalton> yeah somehow he's using both evdev and mouse/kbd with xserver 1.4.1.. confusing
 [10:07:26]  <tjaalton> and no xorg.conf
 [10:07:35]  <tjaalton> to debug
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[10:16:41]  <svu> tjaalton, happy?;0
 [10:16:43]  <svu> ;)
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[10:17:37]  <tjaalton> svu: about the patch? yes, thanks :)
 [10:19:12]  <jcristau> looks like svn was happy too, committing that patch from the n810 ;)
 [10:20:11]  <tjaalton> yeah the author header looked interesting
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[10:27:38]  <jcristau> err. i meant svu, obviously.
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[10:47:36]  <svu> jcristau, :)
 [10:47:50]  <svu> tjaalton, what's so interesting?
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[11:26:39]  <keithp> ajax: damageproto is kinda core these days; am I not allowed to clean up?
 [11:27:53]  * jcristau cheers at the new sgi freeb license
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[11:44:27]  <ajax> keithp: sticking an alternates path in that doesn't resolve on kemper isn't terribly polite
 [11:44:41]  <keithp^ oh. sorry.
 [11:44:51]  <johnflux> in a Makefile.am    anyone know how to say  "driver.c  depends on exa_use.h  having been compiled"
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[11:45:19]  <ajax> johnflux: you don't.  automake has a makedepend pass first that catches those for you.
 [11:46:39]  <johnflux^ i can't get it to work. the problem is that the header file has to be generated
 [11:47:17]  <johnflux> I have a rule to generate the header file, but it doesn't seem to call it
 [11:47:46]  <ajax> odd
 [11:47:54]  <ajax> well, straight make syntax works too
 [11:48:03]  <fredrikh> keithp: was that DevPrivates leak patch you posted on the xorg list ever committed?
 [11:48:08]  <ajax> $(srcdir)/driver.c: $(srcdir)/exa_use.h
 [11:48:47]  <keithp> fredrikh: I haven't a clue
 [11:48:50]  <johnflux> literally $(srcdir)  ?
 [11:48:54]  * keithp doesn't remember any devPrivates leak
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[11:50:00]  <johnflux> ajax: woah, that did work :-)
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[11:54:06]  <fredrikh> keithp: probably this one: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-August/037554.html
 [11:56:07]  <keithp^ can you check and see if that's on master? I'm helping cworth get a presentation ready...
 [11:58:36]  <fredrikh^ doesn't look like it
 [11:59:40]  <fredrikh> and apparently it was about resources, not privates...
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[12:04:01]  <aep> hi
 [12:04:22]  <aep> iwonder why an X window is always repaint black on resize.
 [12:04:43]  <aep> ie X fills the window with black and then sends an ExposeEvent
 [12:05:15]  <ajax> because you have the background pixel color set to black, probably
 [12:05:48]  <aep> well, propably
 [12:06:09]  <aep> if i pass 0  to XCreateSimpleWindow its the same, so i assume black is 0
 [12:06:33]  <aep> can i pass something else to tell it not to repaint the window on resize?
 [12:06:59]  <aep> i'd prefer doing that myself. especially only repaint the parts that actually are newly exposed, instead of the entire window
 [12:07:11]  <ajax> man XSetWindowBackground
 [12:07:17]  <aep> thanks
 [12:09:22]  <aep> hum it takes a "pixelvalue", so i guess thats a color
 [12:09:31]  <aep> is there any magic value that stops the repaint ?
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[12:09:50]  <ajax> background pixmap of None
 [12:10:06]  <aep> ah!
 [12:10:09]  <aep> i'll try, thanks
 [12:10:46]  <aep> works!
 [12:10:50]  <aep> thanks alot
 [12:12:51]  <dottedmag> ajax: you've committed edid.h along with relicensing opengl stuff
 [12:13:01]  <johnflux> aep: you're writing an application in just xlib?
 [12:13:10]  <aep^ something like it, yes
 [12:13:24]  <johnflux^ why? :)
 [12:13:27]  <ajax> dottedmag: gah,
 [12:13:37]  <aep> well becouse most toolkits don't suit me
 [12:13:50]  <aep> i was a longtime Qt fan before the nokia buy.
 [12:13:50]  <johnflux>
[12:14:00]  <ajax> dottedmag: fixed, thanks
 [12:14:06]  <johnflux> aep: nokia haven't changed the license or anything
 [12:14:14]  <aep> they did
 [12:14:19]  <aep> $$$ x2
 [12:14:27]  <ajax> hmm
 [12:14:52]  <johnflux> aep: hmm, any linky?
 [12:15:06]  <aep> your last bill? :P
 [12:15:10]  <ajax> i see an updated version of FreeB, but not of GLXPL yet.
 [12:15:33]  <aep> anyway. there are a couple of political issues within TT, so i'm _preparing_ to get away from Qt
 [12:15:42]  <aep> so i'll learn X11
 [12:15:49]  <aep> and winapi
 [12:16:10]  <jcristau> ajax: the sgi press release doesn't mention glxpl at all
 [12:16:34]  <aep> (well not really, i have other people to do that, heh)
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[12:16:56]  * aep wonders if Xft can do complex layouts
 [12:18:36]  <aep> oh and btw cairo is so extremly neat.  thats stuff you never get to use when you don't look under the hood ;)
 [12:24:22]  <fredrikh^ xft doesn't do complex layouts, you need harfbuzz for that
 [12:24:56]  <aep> humm. any existing code for that?
 [12:25:05]  <aep> something i could rip out of something else at least?
 [12:25:16]  <aep> pango and qt apear to use harfbuzz
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[13:05:39]  <jcristau> ajax: mind if i copy your freeb commit from xserver to glproto?
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[13:37:12]  <ajax> jcristau: go for it
 [13:38:42]  <stillunknown> cworth: i tried the trapezoid rasterisation on gpu thing, and it works fine for larger shapes, but for smaller shapes subpixel resolution is needed.
 [13:40:05]  <stillunknown> And i don't know how expensive a shader based rasteriser would be (let alone how to make one).
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[13:55:02]  <stillunknown> cworth: also, does cairo ever try to reuse the trapezoid masks?
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[14:10:41]  <fredrikh> stillunknown: it uses CompositeTrapezoids, not AddTraps, so it can't
 [14:16:43]  <stillunknown> fredikh: cairo does sometimes allocate a mask themselves i think
 [14:18:23]  <stillunknown> the destination in a trapezoid call is actually the mask for a later operation
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[14:27:16]  <stillunknown> hmm, i always thought the prepareaccess stuff was to check if direct cpu access was possible, giess i was mistaken
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[14:29:15]  <stillunknown> MrCooper: is it garuanteed that memory is not offscreen once the driver gets the prepare access call?
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[17:15:32]  <jg> cool: dell claims to have shipped my new toy....
 [17:17:37]  <aep> a tank?
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[17:30:57]  <jg> aep: dell latitude XT; has both pen and *multitouch* input.
 [17:31:11]  <jg> though a tank would be fun too ;-).
 [17:34:50]  <aep> multitouch oO
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[17:34:59]  <aep> i didnt even know devices exist which can do that
 [17:35:07]  <jg^ yup.
 [17:35:08]  <jg> just.
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[17:46:30]  <vignatti> jg: they're already selling the product?
 [17:48:00]  <vignatti> oops. First page in dell's site
 [17:49:05]  <krh_> -q
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[17:55:45]  <vignatti> so the Vista is already multitouch aware
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[18:01:32]  <aep> "aware". propably as much as X11 is aware of it. doesn't make it any usefull... haha
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[19:28:59]  <ANG1> hello ppl
 [19:29:52]  <ANG1> anyone knows where to get good infos about the xorg modular compilation
 [19:29:53]  <ANG1> ?
 [19:30:44]  <ANG1> i m compiling the xorg right now but i m experiencing some problems with vars
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[19:39:06]  <ANG1> hey guys anyone know where i cant get infos about the modular xorg compilation?
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[19:48:27]  <jg> ping whot
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[21:07:33]  <aaronp> ajax: What exactly was the protocol implication of changing MAXSCREENS?
 [21:07:42]  <aaronp> I vaguely recall there being some problem with XID allocation.
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[21:49:28]  <jg_> aaronp: none, to the protocol.
 [21:50:02]  <jg_> IIRC, there are issues with the driver interface if MAXSCREENS is made bigger, but don't know the current state....
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[22:38:25]  <jg> ping whot
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----- [2008-09-20] -----
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[01:41:22]  <dberkholz> oh, what awesome news re sgi free b!
 [01:55:01]  <spstarr_coding> ya
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[05:28:49]  <mnemo> what is the difference between "_NET_BLAH" and "BLAH" among X.org window properties??
 [05:30:09]  <mnemo> for example WM_NAME and _NET_WM_NAME
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[05:38:10]  <wereHamster> mnemo: the _NET_WM stuff is described in the NETWM spec
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[05:54:56]  <mnemo> wereHamster: is "NETWM spec" the same as the EWMH spec??
 [06:03:10]  <dottedmag^ yes
 [06:03:43]  <wereHamster+ you can find the spec here: http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/
 [06:19:15]  <mnemo> I understand from the spec that the contents of _NET_WM_NAME is a UTF8 encoded string... but what about the "_NET_WM_NAME" atom name itself? is that always ASCII or can that ever be UTF8 as well?
 [06:20:07]  <DrNick> you do realize that the first 127 UTF8 codepoints are indistinguishable from ASCII, right?
 [06:20:44]  <mnemo> ahh, so basically for all the atoms used in icccm and netwm it doesnt matter in practice then right?
 [06:20:55]  <DrNick> correct
 [06:20:59]  <DrNick> but they're ASCII :)
 [06:21:11]  <DrNick> and not, for example, uh
 [06:21:12]  <mnemo> okay I see.. thanks for the clarification
 [06:21:29]  <DrNick> EBCDIC
 [06:22:09]  <mnemo> right
 [06:23:54]  <DrNick> although, without looking, I think they're valid EBCDIC, too
 [06:25:12]  <DrNick> wait, no, I misread this chart
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[06:47:47]  <Finswimmer> hello, i want to build x11-libs/libXi, but it fails with: /usr/bin/xmlto man XI.xmlxmlto: input does not validate (status 3)/var/tmp/portage/x11-libs/libXi-9999/work/libXi-9999/man/XI.xml:2: warning: failed to load external entity "/var/tmp/portage/x11-libs/libXi-9999/work/libXi-9999/man/docbookx.dtd"<!DOCTYPE reference PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" "docbookx.dtd" >                                                  
[06:47:47]  <Finswimmer>                                    ^validity error : Could not load the external subset "docbookx.dtd"
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[09:07:30]  <mnemo> is it possible to enumerate the currently availble X11 extensions from the commandline?
 [09:10:15]  <wereHamster> you could grep the log file :)
 [09:11:06]  <marcheu> xdpyinfo
 [09:11:44]  <mnemo^ thanks
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[14:17:27]  <dottedmag> svu: here?
 [14:17:41]  <dottedmag> URL in README of xkeyboard-config is out-of-date
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[09:44:33]  <jg> ping whot
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[12:10:32]  <natergator> any xkb contributors in here?
 [12:12:21]  <jcristau> they're hiding
 [12:12:55]  <natergator> Hey julien
 [12:13:06]  <natergator> re: this bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17680
 [12:13:40]  <natergator> jcristau: and this full backtrace http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/56672/x_att.txt
 [12:14:03]  <natergator> I think I may have found a decent lead on the cause of the openoffice menu crash
 [12:14:50]  <natergator> jcristau: if you look at XkbDDXLoadKeymapByNames' call in the backtrace, you see that nameRtrnLen=4096
 [12:16:10]  <natergator> on line 362 of ddxLoad.c XkbDDXOpenConfigFile is used to set the file/fileName inside XkbDDXLoadKeymapByNames
 [12:16:31]  <natergator> and it is passed PATH_MAX for it's third parameter
 [12:19:05]  <natergator> the prototype of XkbDDXOpenConfig file shows that the 3 para is fileNameRtrnLen, however on line 326-326 the filename is strncpy'd using the length: strncpy(fileNameRtrn,buf,fileNameRtrnLen);
 [12:20:01]  <natergator> but if you look at the backtrace, fileName is corrupted gibberish
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[12:20:56]  <natergator> and line 327 of ddxLoad.c is curiously buf[fileNameRtrnLen-1]= '\0';
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[12:21:23]  <natergator> _after_ the strncpy has happened, and on the buffer, not the fileNameRtrn pointer
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[12:25:07]  <jcristau> ugh.
 [12:26:27]  <jcristau> well in your backtrace fileName is not corrupted gibberish, it's ""
 [12:33:34]  <natergator> well it _seems_ like it's hanging by being endlessly piped data into xkbcomp, but then this AM I had another go at backtracing and execution actually got past xkbcomp before the hang started, so I inclined to believe there is somewhere that an unintialized variable is being used
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[13:49:42]  <liquidAcid> i think i found a problem in the german nodeadkeys X keyboard layout, the "acute accent" doesn't work like expected
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[14:40:47]  <jcristau> liquidAcid: fwiw the xkeyboard-config list is xkb@listserv.bat.ru
 [14:41:36]  <liquidAcid^ i already figured something out - seems like the behaviour was changed in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11514
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[14:42:01]  <liquidAcid> however this doesn't really make sense to me, since the apostrophe is already on another key
 [14:42:03]  <jcristau> i know, i saw your post on xorg@
 [14:42:12]  <liquidAcid> ok :)
 [14:42:21]  <jcristau> but I don't know if svu reads xorg@
 [14:43:04]  <liquidAcid> ok, so i probably send him a direct mail, pointing to the post?
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[15:31:15]  <svu> jcristau, in general i do, but i miss a lot of things sometimes
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[16:24:09]  <tjaalton> svu: btw, the interesting bit about the commit was the mail address, which reveals that it was run on N810 ;)
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[16:44:23]  <svu> tjaalton, true. what was  the email address?
 [16:45:18]  <jcristau^ user <user@Nokia-N810-23-14.(none)>
 [16:45:59]  <svu> :))
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[17:26:58]  <oni> hi
 [17:27:41]  <oni> is there an event when i connect a display to my pc?
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[18:46:40]  <daniels> chuck is on moderation now.  if anyone has a problem with that, tell them to email me.
 [18:47:40]  <daniels> svu: btw, nice work with committing from an n810 -- even i've never committed from one of our devices, even over serial console or ssh ;)
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[19:00:04]  <jcristau> daniels: so you'll be the only one laughing at chuck's nonsense now? :)
 [19:03:25]  <daniels> s/laughing/slashing wrists/
 [19:03:35]  <vignatti> haeuheh
 [19:03:44]  <daniels> honestly, the only conclusion i can come to is that he's a troll.  i tried to believe in him, really, i tried.
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[19:16:59]  <whot> jg: pong
 [19:17:46]  <jg> hi.
 [19:17:52]  <whot> good morning
 [19:17:55]  <jg> was just composing mail.
 [19:17:58]  <jg> good evening.
 [19:18:08]  <jg> back on Au time?
 [19:18:27]  <whot> yeah. both physically and mentally now
 [19:18:43]  <jg> My Latitude is arriving this week; when would you find one useful?
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[19:18:58]  <jg> it does appear n-trig will be cooperative.
 [19:19:06]  <jg> I got an NDA from them today to sign.
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[19:19:36]  <jg> haven't read it yet (tomorrow), though on first glance it looks like the usual.
 [19:20:26]  <jg> whot: you going to be around in an hour?
 [19:20:42]  <jg> offspring wants to watch Babylon 5 with me.
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[19:21:49]  <whot> jg: sure
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[20:08:12]  <jg> whot: back.
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[20:34:53]  <josephcohen_AFK> can someone explain to me the differences between the "Family" defines in Xauth? Like what FamilyLocal is used for?
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[20:46:52]  <DrNick> PF_UNIX/PF_INET/PF_INET6
 [20:48:12]  <jcristau> josephcohen: seen http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libXau/tree/README?
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[20:57:16]  <whot> daniels: still awake
 [20:57:20]  <whot> ?
 [21:32:43]  <benjsc> anyone object to me committing: http://pastebin.com/m5a2e33b7  - fixes mesa build atm
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[21:43:16]  <josephcohen> thanks, I thought I read that file already but I missed it, I read "xauth" instead
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[22:35:59]  <anholt> benjsc: please
 [22:37:33]  <rnoland_^ x4500, should that work?
 [22:37:41]  <anholt> yes, that's g45.
 [22:37:54]  <rnoland_> ok, is agp like a 965 on that?
 [22:38:21]  <anholt> pretty much -- take a look at the linux diffs.
 [22:38:29]  <anholt> (I didn't do the patch, so I didn't pay much attention)
 [22:38:40]  <rnoland_> where would i find those?
 [22:39:08]  <anholt> git log drivers/char/agp
 [22:39:09]  <rnoland_> looks like drm already has id's for it, but agp doesn't yet...
 [22:39:25]  <rnoland_> in the drm-next tree?
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[22:40:00]  <rnoland_> i think i have that here...
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[22:42:29]  <anholt> 25ce77abf8be3a96b3673e46722a9bd05f149584
 [22:43:01]  <rnoland_> ok, found thanks..
 [22:45:01]  <rnoland_> ah, gtt stolen is seperate ... i'm not sure we are doing that...
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[22:56:28]  <benh> anholt: thanks for hosting us last week !
 [22:56:42]  <benh> nest time, we'll bring glasses tho :-)
 [23:05:03]  <anholt^ yeah, I forgot to go pick up more wine glasses before lpc happened.
 [23:08:02]  <rnoland_^ plastic cups are so low class... ;)
 [23:08:20]  <rnoland_> yet, so functional...
 [23:17:28]  <rnoland_> anholt: another ?, I'm told that xf86-video-intel doesn't work well with 85x cards...
 [23:18:02]  <rnoland_> in looking at the linux agp code, it doesn't appear to support any of that series cards...
 [23:18:08]  <rnoland_> chips...
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[23:23:31]  <anholt> it definitely supports those
 [23:23:57]  <rnoland_> they say it works, but i810 works better... and i want to kill i810
 [23:23:59]  <anholt> however the driver periodically has issues on them because we don't really test on 8xx
 [23:24:37]  <rnoland_> i810 is broken with libdrm-2.3.1 and i don't plan to fix it...
 [23:25:31]  <rnoland_> where does linux keep the text names for pci id?
 [23:26:09]  <rnoland_> i'm going to merge in all the missing ids..
 [23:30:55]  <rnoland_> hrm, i guess this is it...
 [23:32:02]  <rnoland_> anholt: does intel have a page that maps pci id to chipset?
 [23:32:26]  <rnoland_> i know i found the amd one once...
 [23:34:03]  <anholt> rnoland: I use i830_driver.c when I'm looking for things
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[23:34:20]  <anholt> though pciids.sf.net would probably be what you want
 [23:34:22]  <rnoland_> hrm, ok...
 [23:34:30]  <rnoland_> oh ok...
 [23:34:34]  <rnoland_> thanks..
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[02:12:20]  <josephcohen_AFK> Is there a way to have the X11 server running on a remote box dump a log or message saying what the cookie is that it recieved via xdmcp?
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[03:11:37]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:42:41]  <svu> daniels, I am surprised - it would be so natural in your position:)
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[04:46:13]  <daniels> whot: i'll be around in an hour or two.
 [04:54:32]  <whot^ no hurry - see patch on ml (the xkb one). i'm off for today
 [04:55:07]  <daniels^ yeah, just read -- looks good, thanks
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[05:11:05]  <johnflux> Morning alL!
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[08:28:16]  <ProgX> Hello! Where can I find the libX11.so API?
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[08:30:07]  <daniels> ProgX: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781565920026/
 [08:30:17]  <daniels> also /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h
 [08:30:23]  <daniels> or you could ask jg
 [08:31:12]  <jg> ProgX: ???
 [08:31:19]  <jg> just woke up.
 [08:32:01]  <ProgX> Thanks, I found it!
 [08:32:11]  <ProgX> =)
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[12:09:24]  <jcristau> ajax: fwiw, http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/2008-09-sgi-announcement
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[12:50:21]  <ANG1> hello everybody
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[13:00:03]  <keithp> ajax: so, did you have a test case for the XFixes SaveSet changes you pushed?
 [13:00:43]  <keithp> oh, and otaylor fix
 [13:03:43]  <ajax> i can write one, if you like
 [13:04:12]  <ajax> though if we're going to start doing that, we should have a standard place to keep them
 [13:04:27]  <daniels> xts@
 [13:04:28]  <daniels> !
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[13:12:51]  <ajax> have we found anyone kamikaze enough to tackle the xts monster?
 [13:13:28]  <daniels> keithp volunteers
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[13:14:04]  <vignatti> hey guys
 [13:14:22]  <vignatti> we have a very good feedback  about the mdm tool (to do multiseat, bla bla) and I was thinking that it would be cool to create a public mailing list in fd.o
 [13:14:37]  <vignatti> maube move our university wiki and git repo as well
 [13:14:43]  <vignatti> s/maube/maybe
 [13:14:54]  <vignatti> what woulbe be the proceedures to do that?
 [13:15:02]  <vignatti> or what do you think about this?
 [13:15:05]  <keithp> daniels: I've taken a few runs at xts and bounced. it's ugly.
 [13:15:30]  <daniels^ kill it with fire
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[13:15:41]  <keithp> daniels: the code remains useful though...
 [13:15:47]  * vignatti looking to daniels :)
 [13:15:54]  <daniels^ do you think you can actually sustain the traffic? we keep creating lists that go dead after 2 months.
 [13:16:06]  <daniels> keithp: so port the tests when you're done, too. ;)
 [13:16:08]  <keithp> vignatti: any reason not to just use xorg@?
 [13:16:12]  <ajax> i wouldn't be opposed to shuffling the code to some newer test harness
 [13:16:19]  <keithp^ ick
 [13:16:30]  <daniels+ exactly.
 [13:16:31]  <keithp+ lf was supposed to clean up the build process for the existing harness.
 [13:16:43]  <keithp> oddly, I haven't heard of any progress in that area
 [13:16:46]  <ajax> weren't they also supposed to write kernel documentation?
 [13:16:55]  <keithp> but, it did delay me from doing anything on my own
 [13:17:21]  <ajax> this is going to be a jfdi project for someone, isn't it.
 [13:17:43]  <keithp^ yes.
 [13:18:03]  <daniels+ maybe a pre/post-lca project?
 [13:18:09]  <keithp+ it shouldn't be too hard to autotool; I spent a few hours before lf said 'but we're almost done' and got fairly close
 [13:18:21]  <daniels> lock a couple of us in a room with sufficient sustenance for a few hours ...
 [13:18:32]  <keithp^ mmm. port.
 [13:18:39]  <daniels> rather.
 [13:19:01]  <vignatti> daniels and keithp: I'm sure the traffic of a multiseat only list would be pretty intensive
 [13:19:12]  <vignatti> our wiki receive about 20.000 hits on the last four days
[13:19:21]  <vignatti> and a lot mails in our private list as well
 [13:19:37]  <vignatti> maybe this would justify the reason to create a separate list
 [13:20:54]  <jcristau^ use xorg@, and if/when you make enough noise to bother people, they'll create another list?
 [13:22:16]  <vignatti^ yep
 [13:22:28]  <vignatti> probably this could be good enough for now. You're right :/
 [13:24:43]  <vignatti> okay. I'll start to tell the people to send email to xorg@ instead our private university list
 [13:24:50]  <vignatti> and what about the repositories and the wiki?
 [13:25:02]  <vignatti> IMHO to centralize this in fd.o would get a good reputation compared with the repo inside the university
 [13:25:13]  <vignatti> what do you think?
 [13:25:19]  <vignatti> currently their are living here:
 [13:25:54]  <vignatti> http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/
 [13:26:15]  <vignatti> http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/gitweb?p=multiseat/mdm.git;a=summary
 [13:26:41]  <daniels> i don't see any reason you couldn't put most of the wiki stuff on xorg, and put mdm under xorg/app/, even if we wouldn't ship it per default.
 [13:27:09]  <daniels> but yeah, as for the list, been trying to work on the 'don't create them unless the subject matter is drowning out xorg@' principle after a bunch of lists that just went dead.
 [13:30:30]  <vignatti^ cool. That's nice
 [13:30:38]  <vignatti> so how can I push mdm to xorg/app right?
 [13:30:47]  <vignatti> May I need poke some admin for this?
 [13:31:14]  <ajax> (harassing my qa guys about test stuff, bbiab)
 [13:31:27]  <jcristau> grr. that's the second time i get a gpu lockup in two days. i hadn't seen one in a while...
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[13:53:48]  <daniels> vignatti: you should be able to push now
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[13:57:35]  <vignatti> daniels: thanks Daniel. I'll give a try in some minutes
 [13:58:59]  <daniels> coolio
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[14:10:09]  <HrB> Hi there
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[14:11:39]  <HrB> I need a way to control to shutdown a computer after - say, 2 hours idle time in xorg. How can I see a users idle time i X?
 [14:12:12]  <daniels^ look at the IDLETIME counter with XSync
 [14:12:37]  <HrB> I need to do this to save power/electricity... I'm managing 10k thin clients and they are rarely shutdown
 [14:13:06]  <HrB> daniels: Thank you - Don't really know that program - I'll look in to it
 [14:13:38]  <HrB> oh.. it's a function :P
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[14:20:49]  <HrB> There's nothing one can do "straight out of the bag"?
 [14:21:08]  <ajax> i'm sure there is in gtk
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[14:24:26]  <dottedmag> HrB: you can try set up xscreensaver & xscreensaver-command -watch to run shutdown script.
 [14:25:15]  <HrB> Oh... that seems like a great idea!
[14:25:45]  <dottedmag> so screen saver will save both screens and energy ;)
 [14:25:47]  <HrB> If I remember correct xscreensaver doesn't take up much space either - perfect for the thin clients
 [14:25:53]  <HrB> yeah :P
 [14:30:10]  <HrB> do you know if it's bundled with xscreensaver? -it seems to be
 [14:31:36]  <anholt> ajax: thank you for putting the cursor back with -retro
 [14:32:30]  <ajax^ np
 [14:34:43]  <HrB> dottedmag:  Nevermind - it is bundled :) Thanks for your tip
 [14:34:56]  <dottedmag> welcome
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[15:12:15]  <aneas> hi. xlib: is there a way to force another window to redraw itself? maybe sending an expose event manually?
 [15:12:57]  <wereHamster^ XSendEvent()
 [15:13:41]  <aneas> roger that
 [15:14:45]  <wereHamster> also, why do you want to do that?
 [15:15:48]  <aneas> XSetWindowBackground on a XEMBED'ed window does not work as i expect it
 [15:16:46]  <aneas> so i thought maybe XSetWindowBackground doesnt expose the window
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[15:19:58]  <ajax> it doesn't.  it just changes the background that will be drawn on the next exposure.
 [15:20:04]  <aneas> (I'm trying to change the background color of the icons in my systray to achieve fake transparency)
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[15:20:26]  <aneas> ok, thx
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[15:54:21]  <ajax> oh fun.
 [15:54:37]  <ajax> the hp 30-bit monitor in no way identifies itself as a 30-bit monitor.
 [15:57:24]  <DrNick> I'm sure the drivers disk does something sensible
 [15:57:28]  <DrNick> oh, wait, this is HP
 [15:57:57]  <DrNick> so the drivers disk installs Apache and Tomcat for the JSP-powered configuration control panel and sets them to run automatically at boot
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[16:01:08]  <ajax> but at least you'll be able to change monitor depth from OpenView
 [16:02:54]  <DrNick> OpenView sounds enterprisey
 [16:03:04]  <DrNick> and I was talking about ordinary Windows drivers
 [16:03:28]  <aneas> holy crap, transparent systray icons :D thats at least two levels above awesome
 [16:03:55]  <aneas> afk: dancing
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[16:15:26]  <ajax> CEA extension block
 [16:15:26]  <ajax> Extension version: 3
 [16:15:52]  <ajax> shit.  hope that's backward-compatible with version 2.
 [16:18:02]  <CosmicPenguin> I hope that it will rain beer today, but thats not likely... :)
 [16:20:20]  <aneas> i like++
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[16:20:57]  <ajax> oh, nm, i do have v3 documentation
 [16:21:00]  <ajax> hooray for that
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[19:26:23]  <aneas> does xorg provide timer events? or maybe XNextEvent with a timeout?
 [19:26:42]  <aneas> or is this not the right channel to ask?
 [19:26:55]  <josephcohen> Right channel, don't know your answer
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[19:28:32]  <aneas> thx :)
 [19:37:09]  <aneas> ok, found a solution suitable for me (  select(ConnectionNumber(display)...  )
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[20:14:41]  <benjsc> aneas: make sure you check XPending first as some events may be queued and not hit the fd
 [20:17:27]  <aneas> oh, ok, thx :)
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[22:56:48]  * cjb hit ctrl+alt+bs accidentally for the first time ever last week.  :)
 [22:57:05]  <cjb> (I blame emacs.  Was aiming for ctrl+shift+bs.)
 [23:00:04]  <vignatti^ hehe, oh dear..
 [23:00:11]  <vignatti> that on the ML is seriously? :)
 [23:00:46]  <cjb> :)
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[23:20:09]  <ajax> poll: am i pretty?  i'm worried that i'm not.  someone should make me feel better.
 [23:20:57]  <airlied^ sounds like you need amihotornot..
 [23:23:33]  <ajax> ooh, and i got flamed for changing the defaults
 [23:24:26]  <ajax> i'm so glad i have the internet.  i used to think i was a pretty okay guy, but now random strangers i don't care about can let me know otherwise, all in the comfort of my own home.
 [23:24:29]  <vignatti> heh
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[23:54:04]  <vignatti> airlied: ping
 ----- [2008-09-23] -----
 [00:08:54]  <airlied^ pong
 [00:12:02]  <vignatti^ DRI is ready enough for multiple instances of the X server at the same time?
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[00:16:00]  <airlied> vignatti: not really yet, modesetting stack if a lot more ready.
 [00:16:13]  <airlied> do you want two servers on one card?
 [00:16:27]  <airlied> active at the same time?
 [00:16:40]  <vignatti> yep yep
 [00:16:49]  <vignatti> I'm just trying to know the current state
 [00:17:13]  <airlied> that won't work until the drm redesign is finished.
 [00:17:35]  <airlied> ala http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/DRMRedesign
 [00:19:30]  <vignatti^ okay, thanks. I'm just writing some things here in my blog about multiseat, trying to understand a path to follow in a short/medium-term
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[03:02:04]  <cpo_> hello. i'm porting the smi 501 pci driver to local bus (used the smi501 pci version as template). the probing goes quiet well, the dev pointer got an address != 0x0, but my xserver crashes with the message: "(EE) Screen 0 deleted because of no matching config section"
 [03:02:38]  <cpo_> but a working screenenvironment is present in my xorg.conf because it works with the framebuffer driver. i just switched to my non-pci version of the smi501 driver
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[03:14:21]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[03:31:15]  <marcheu> hmm why is it I'm always sleeping when nice trolls come to the list ?
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[05:54:30]  <johnflux> git doesn't compile ;-)
 [05:55:20]  <johnflux> HEAD doesn't compile, rather
 [05:55:28]  <jcristau> head of what?
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[06:10:35]  <jcristau> hrm. there's no DDX/kdrive component in bugzilla?
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[07:18:39]  <JohnFlux2> when building Xorg, if I specify a set of CFLAGS  does that get prepended to the list includes when compiling?
[07:19:23]  <JohnFlux2> the problem I seem to be having is that I need to add   -I$SOMEDIR/usr/include        to the list of includes, so that it can find zlib
 [07:22:18]  <JohnFlux2> but I don't want it to pull in the X11 headers that I already have installed in -I$SOMEDIR/usr/include
 [07:24:08]  <daniels> sounds like you're kind of screwed
 [07:24:53]  <JohnFlux2^ hehe
 [07:25:05]  <JohnFlux2> the fun of cross compiling :-D
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[07:26:05]  <jcristau> mkdir -p $SOMEOTHERDIR/usr/include; ln -s $SOMEDIR/usr/include/z*.h $SOMEOTHERDIR/usr/include?
 [07:26:21]  * JohnFlux2 nods
 [07:26:25]  <JohnFlux2> good idea
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[07:40:52]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: did you get around to check my patches ?
 [07:41:13]  <JohnFlux2> I still can't cross compile xorg out of the box :-/
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[08:21:12]  <tjaalton> whot: ping, will you release a new set of backported patches (properties support) for xserver 1.5 etc?
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[08:33:37]  <sx|lappy> keithp: hi there. any idea where I could buy a DG45ID from in .fr ?
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[08:37:48]  <daniels> odds of keithp being intimately acquainted with french computer retailers are low ...
 [08:39:02]  <sx|lappy> ha
 [08:39:05]  <sx|lappy> possibly
 [08:39:45]  <sx|lappy> it's just that I was wondering if it was available around here at all, despite the largest online reseller not even stocking anything G45 related
 [08:40:05]  <sx|lappy> well, found it for less than 100eur after much googling
 [08:40:14]  <sx|lappy> keithp: question rescinded ;)
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[08:47:37]  <hash_> Hello all! It is my first time here. I think I found a small bug in xserver Automake macro for 'glx' folder. If someone is interested, please let me know
 [08:48:01]  <hash_> source gitted several hours ago
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[08:57:31]  <JohnFlux2> hash_: maybe submit a patch ?
 [08:59:52]  <hash_> Well, but I'm not 100% sure, that this is a bug. But issue is simple:   why Automake.ac in xserver/glx   folder does not include MESA_SOURCE, while  glxdriswrastr.c includes GL/internal/dri_interfac.h   which needs MESA_SOURCE
 [09:00:41]  <hash_> seems that other folders, which refer to GL/internal  include MESA_SOURCE in Automake.ac
 [09:01:03]  <hash_> I just want comment for a guru :)
 [09:02:25]  <hash_> of course, I have --with-mesa=/path/to/Mesa  provided to autoconf
 [09:03:23]  <jcristau> dri_interface.h doesn't need mesa source
 [09:05:40]  <hash_^ Where then dri_interface.h is located in your tree?
 [09:05:58]  <jcristau> /usr/include/GL/internal
 [09:06:31]  <hash_> which package provides it?
 [09:07:11]  <jcristau> mesa-common-dev
 [09:10:10]  <hash_> well, then seems that xorg autoconf doesn't check for this package, right?
 [09:10:16]  <hash_> ops, xserver*
 [09:12:41]  <jcristau> it checks for gl >= 7.1.0 which should provide that file
 [09:15:15]  <hash_> Hmm, can it be so, that GL compiled without DRI support does not install dri_interface into common location?
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[09:20:33]  <hash_> Well, then I should correctly tell xserver to be configured without GLX support...
 [09:26:48]  <fifthbro> after configuring xserver with --disable-dri2 it still tries to compile glxdri2.c
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[09:49:29]  <fifthbro> where can I send patch for this?sdddaass
 [09:50:29]  <hash_^ yes the same with me. Seems that --disable-dga also does'nt work. NOw i'm tring with --enable-dga=no
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[09:52:05]  <dottedmag> fifthbro: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org
 [09:52:15]  <fifthbro> hash_: in my case glx Makefile.am ignores DRI2 define
[09:52:32]  <fifthbro> dottedmag: ok. thanks.
 [09:56:34]  <hash_^ --enable-dga=no --disable  ->> still xf86dgc.c is included into build process :(
 [09:57:06]  <hash_> How can it be, that both dga(my case) and dri2( your case) dotn work?
 [09:57:16]  <ajax> because nobody tests those cases
 [09:57:59]  <hash_> is it a candidate for a bug?
 [09:58:02]  <fifthbro> we do :)
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[09:58:56]  <hash_> I just to want to comple very simple xserver - no Gl, no dri, no gla, no drm - i hope it is at all possible?
 [10:00:19]  <hash_> just want simpliest possbiel xserver with vesa driver
 [10:00:25]  <jg^ I'm sure Ajax would be happy to see patches...
 [10:02:19]  <hash_> ok, I'll try! Really, it's my first time with xserver compile, so dont throw tomatoes for silly question (if they are) :)
 [10:03:31]  <jg^ there is a multiplicative explosion between compile options: almost by definition, there can/will be bugs, that are usually pretty easy to resolve.
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[10:36:11]  <daniels> ajax: thoughts on the sha1 patch (to use our own implementation instead of openssl/libmd)?
 [10:37:01]  <ajax> my overlords are going to want me to use nss someday.
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[10:38:18]  <ajax> where's this patch though?
 [10:39:03]  <kazuo> hi, i'm looking for help with Xdamage. I have a hidden window from which I want to receive XDamageReportRawRectangles, to monitor window activity. Can anyone help me?
 [10:39:05]  <daniels> nss? huh?
 [10:39:16]  <daniels> patch is on xorg@, <43d8ce650809040257u72be95a1gb0c21ba939570701@mail.gmail.com>
 [10:39:28]  <daniels> kazuo: what's the problem?
 [10:40:01]  <ajax> assuming "hidden" means "unmapped", he's never going to get any damage
 [10:40:04]  <kazuo> daniels: the window is hidden, so it doesn't draw, I think
 [10:40:07]  <ajax> because rendering will get clipped away
 [10:40:23]  <kazuo> daniels: is there a way to fool it to make it draw?
 [10:40:32]  <daniels^ redirect it
 [10:40:38]  <daniels> (with composite)
 [10:40:55]  <ajax> even when redirected, unmapped windows have no storage
 [10:41:08]  <ajax> redirection just fixes occlusion, not mapping.
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[10:41:33]  <kazuo> i tried using composite, using XCompositeRedirectSubwindows, is that what you mean?
 [10:41:52]  <daniels> oh yeah, unmapped.  loss.
 [10:42:21]  <ajax> now if you redirected it and moved it outside the viewport, you'd be okay
 [10:43:06]  <kazuo> I see. Can you give me a hint on how to move it outside the viewport? I'm a X11 noob..
 [10:43:12]  <ajax> XMoveWindow()
 [10:43:29]  <ajax> but i think you may be solving the wrong problem here.  what are you really trying to do?
 [10:43:43]  <kazuo> oh, I see
 [10:44:01]  <kazuo> I'm trying to implement a program that will monitor a window for activity
 [10:44:15]  <kazuo> like gnu screen monitors a console for activity
 [10:44:52]  <kazuo> i want to receive a message when a window stops having activity for 30 secs, for example
 [10:45:20]  <ajax> define "activity" though.  when the application stops drawing?  when it stops processing events?
 [10:45:40]  <kazuo> okay, sorry. Activity means drawing to me
 [10:45:59]  <ajax> daniels: i'm not finding it, even with google.
 [10:46:03]  <ajax> subject line?
 [10:46:47]  <daniels^ 'Various patches', from JohnFlux
 [10:46:53]  <daniels> 4th sep
 [10:46:58]  <daniels> ajax: also, quickly, we deleted fontcache, right?
 [10:47:08]  <ajax> yes we did
 [10:47:11]  <daniels> coolio
 [10:47:15]  * daniels updates module-list.txt.
 [10:47:29]  <ajax> kazuo: Damage is as good as you're going to get then.  the problem is that in X, windows that aren't mapped literally have no pixel storage.  you can't talk about drawing to an unmapped window, at all.
 [10:47:29]  <daniels> (deleted for 7.4, or 7.5?)
 [10:47:57]  <ajax^ 7.5, it looks like.  code still present in server-1.5, although it'll do bugger-all
 [10:48:04]  <kazuo^ so it can't be done even moving the window outside the viewport?
 [10:48:22]  <ajax^ if you move the window outside the viewport, the user won't be able to see it anymore...
 [10:48:35]  <daniels^ k
 [10:48:45]  <JohnFlux2> with AC_CHECK_FILE   is it possible to get it to work even if cross compiling?
 [10:49:05]  <kazuo> ajax: oh, i understood what moving it outside the viewport means now, I see. Okay, thanks a lot =)
 [10:49:06]  <JohnFlux2> hal uses AC_CHECK_FILE to find pci.ids 
[10:49:22]  <kazuo> daniels: thank you too
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[10:50:50]  <tjaalton> um, is it just me or is symbols/inet{evdev} just wrong.. shouldn't it match the input.h scancodes?
 [10:50:59]  <tjaalton> linux/input.h
 [10:51:29]  <ajax> daniels: there we go, found it.  fine with me really.
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[10:53:23]  <tjaalton> for instance KEY_BATTERY is 236 in linux/input.h, but I244 in symbols/inet
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[10:53:43]  <tjaalton> actually, commented out from the latter
 [10:53:55]  <daniels> ajax: for 7.5, i'd like to stop shipping all font modules.  objections?
 [10:54:44]  <tjaalton> or is there an offset of 8
 [10:54:48]  <ajax> daniels: not a one
 [10:54:54]  <tjaalton> seems like it
 [10:54:58]  <ajax^ there's an offset, yes
 [10:55:04]  <ajax> valid keycodes are from 8 to 255
 [10:55:08]  <tjaalton> right
 [10:55:49]  <tjaalton> I'm scratching my head to find out why some hotkeys don't work, and seems like I found out why KEY_BATTERY doesn't :)
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[11:37:32]  <JohnFlux2> does anongit.freedesktop.org/git  lag behind at all?
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[11:43:44]  <daniels> ajax: -imstt isn't in module-list.txt -- deliberate?
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[11:43:52]  <daniels> JohnFlux2: no, it's nfs-mounted
 [11:44:04]  <daniels> anyway, cgit reads out of the exact same spot on the exact same machine, so even if it weren't ...
 [11:44:11]  <JohnFlux2^ thanks
 [11:44:14]  <ajax+ not ported to pciaccess, afaik
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[11:44:35]  <ajax> so, yes, deliberate
 [11:44:54]  <ajax> i'm sure both users will be gutted
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[11:47:23]  <daniels> ajax: yarr
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[11:52:08]  <daniels> ajax: sha1> cool, ta
 [11:56:26]  <rtcm> hmm, I'm getting the following on xserver master
 [11:56:27]  <rtcm> osdep.h:95:5: error: missing binary operator before token "("
 [11:57:55]  <rtcm> but these macros maze is making it difficult to see the problem
 [12:00:54]  <ajax^ get a newer xtrans
 [12:01:20]  <ajax> OPEN_MAX was being defined as a call to sysconf(), which doesn't work so well from inside a macro expansion
 [12:01:30]  <rtcm^ ah, ok will do, I'm using the fedora9 version
 [12:02:23]  <ajax> yeah, i haven't updated the f9 xtrans in a while
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[12:02:36]  <rtcm> thanks
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[12:09:01]  <hash_> rtcm: the same prob was for me yestarday
 [12:12:28]  <rtcm> yeah, actually have just stumbled on another error now in /glx, I should need a new mesa, or a new glproto?
 [12:16:05]  <hash_> which error?
 [12:27:09]  <rtcm^ rensize.c:222: error: depGL_DEPTH_STENCIL_MESAta. undeclared (first use in this function)
 [12:28:15]  <hash_> Well, it is a versioning problem
 [12:29:14]  <hash_> actully, 1 hour ago I have successfuly compiled my first xserver from sources (except openssl) under Slackware 12.1 !
 [12:29:34]  <hash_> xserver is 6 hors old and mesa was 7.2.0
 [12:31:47]  <hash_> I have eavGL_DEPTH_STENCIL_MESAasn   in /usr/include/GL/gl.h
 [12:34:27]  <rtcm> anyway, I don't need glx anyway, I just want Xnest to test some things out so I just disabled it and it compiled
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[12:37:27]  <hash_> rtcm: seems that
[12:37:27]  <hash_> 2000-11-03
 [12:37:27]  <hash_> Brian Paul
 [12:37:55]  <hash_> sorry, seems that GL_DEPTH_STENCIL_MESAeco was added to Mesa in 2000 year!
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[12:56:28]  <ajax> daniels: anything else i'm obviously missing for 1.5.1?
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[13:14:08]  <daniels> ajax: not off the top of my head
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[14:07:57]  <jasonlife> With xrandr , DISPLAY is same for every monitor.  Is it possible to have different screen number for each monitor ? like :0.0 and :0.1
 [14:08:41]  <ajax> no.
 [14:08:50]  <ajax> not with randr anyway.
 [14:08:51]  <jasonlife> if it's not possible with the current xrandr,  I'm wondering that there is any plan for it..
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[14:09:14]  <ajax> no plan.  the distinct screen number thing is actually the whole reason for doing randr in the first place.
 [14:09:43]  <ajax> the only way to enumerate screens is at client connection time
 [14:10:12]  <jasonlife> what do you mean?
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[14:10:31]  <jasonlife> enumerating screen at client connection time ?
 [14:10:34]  <ajax> a screen, in X, is defined by its root window
 [14:10:48]  <ajax> you get a list of root windows when you do XOpenDisplay
 [14:11:01]  <ajax> and that's it.  there's no provision in the protocol to add or remove them.
 [14:11:15]  <ajax> so you can't just say "hey look, new screen, and it's on :0.1 now"
 [14:11:44]  <jasonlife> I see
 [14:11:51]  <ajax> even if you could, they wouldn't behave the way you expect
 [14:12:06]  <ajax> X windows aren't allowed to leave the root window that contains them
 [14:12:29]  <ajax> so if you had one root per piece of glass, your apps would be stuck to the screen they started on
 [14:12:49]  <ajax> so instead we present one screen that can change size.
 [14:14:02]  <jasonlife> hmm
 [14:14:23]  <jasonlife> ajax, thanks for the explanation..
 [14:14:41]  <ajax> np
 [14:15:31]  <jasonlife> So the distinct screen number would be extinct ?
 [14:15:53]  <ajax> it's something we're trying to downplay, yes.
 [14:16:19]  <ajax> there are still some use cases where it's legitimate, but it's not the preferred multihead method.
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[14:18:28]  <jasonlife> I think distinct screen is useful sometimes.. especially with MPX..   Having two separate desktop is useful to me
 [14:19:15]  <jasonlife> I can use Xnest or Xephyr, but I heard that they are not stable and some limitation like mouse scroll
 [14:19:36]  <ajax> news to me.
 [14:23:10]  <ajax> which is to say: while i know of some limitations in xephyr and xnest, stability and correctness problems are not things i've heard of before, and i would be thrilled to see reports like that filed as bugs instead of circulated as tribal knowledge
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[14:26:31]  <jasonlife> :)
 [14:28:18]  <jasonlife> Is every driver support xrnadr now? I know ati and intel support it.
 [14:28:41]  <jasonlife> just wondering current status of xrandr ..
 [14:29:32]  <jcristau> nv, for new hardware
 [14:29:56]  <ajax> where "new" means geforce 8000 and up
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[14:32:23]  <jcristau> and there's a randr-1.2 branch for mga, but it hasn't seen any changes in a while
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[14:33:12]  <daniels> nouveau has randr 1.2 in pretty good shape, iirc
 [14:33:20]  <daniels> most other drivers can be scientifically proven to not exist
 [14:33:36]  <daniels> s/proven/proved/
 [14:33:57]  <ajax> i'm seriously considering porting vesa to randr setup
 [14:34:12]  <ajax> it won't get you dualhead or anything
 [14:34:24]  <ajax> but it'll make the mode validation less of a pain in the nuts
 [14:36:05]  <daniels> http://washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_HR_6975.html ftlulz
 [14:36:15]  <daniels> (arse, wrong window.)
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[15:35:16]  <ajax> huzzah, 1.5.1
 [15:35:35]  <CosmicPenguin> well done, siur
 [15:39:46]  <vignatti> we still not able to poke secondary cards with 1.5.1, right?
 [15:47:26]  <ajax> i didn't change anything related to secondary init between 1.5.0 and 1.5.1
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[15:49:26]  <jg> whot: new toy arrived....
 [15:57:19]  <vignatti> ajax: okay, so reformulating: we still not able to poke secondary cards after pci-rework?
 [15:57:23]  <vignatti> :)
 [15:58:09]  <ajax^ not out of malice or anything.  if you've got a working patch set i'm all over it.
 [15:59:00]  <vignatti> tbh, I knew the answer. I just trying to reforce that because it was a big regression
 [15:59:32]  <ajax> yeah, i'm not happy with it either.  just hasn't been a high priority yet.
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[16:25:11]  <ajax> right, done with this.
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[16:36:33]  <cjb> ajax: congrats/thanks for the release.
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[16:38:14]  <ajax> mea maxima culpa
 [16:38:52]  ***  ajax has changed the topic on #xorg-devel to X.org 7.4: The little release that could. | http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDS2008/Notes.
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[17:14:32]  <cjb> odd.  something is killing Xorg with SIGTERM:
 [17:14:35]  <cjb> #1  <signal handler called>
 [17:14:35]  <cjb> #2  0xb7f90424 in __kernel_vsyscall ()
 [17:14:35]  <cjb> #3  0xb7c250bc in writev () from /lib/libc.so.6
 [17:14:35]  <cjb> #4  0x0813275e in ?? ()
 [17:14:38]  <cjb> #5  0x081317af in _XSERVTransWritev ()
 [17:14:44]  <cjb> anyone seen that before?
 [17:16:22]  <ajax> not i
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[17:26:15]  <anholt> bleh.  what's the easiest way to get a cursor up with the default server today? I
 [17:27:15]  <cjb^ you mean when HAL isn't running or something?
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[17:27:27]  <anholt> cjb: no, since ajax turned off the cursor by default
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[17:27:55]  <anholt> XCURSOR_THEME=whiteglass XCURSOR_SIZE=16 mesagl xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr doesn't cut it
 [17:29:00]  <ajax> xterm & ?
 [17:29:17]  <anholt> ah, have to ditch xlogo, ok.
 [17:29:58]  <ajax> seems sort of odd that xsetroot -cursor_name doesn't call XDefineCursor
 [17:30:04]  <ajax> i wonder what it _does_
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[17:33:30]  <ajax> okay, that's messed up
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[17:33:44]  <ajax> -cursor_name certainly looks like it calls XDefineCursor()
 [17:34:33]  <cjb> huh.  we're getting SIGTERM while in SIGALRM.
 [17:40:29]  <cjb> Next question.  Why does `killall -SIGTERM X` as a normal user kill X which is running as root?
 [17:41:00]  <airlied^ did you start it as the user?
 [17:41:17]  <ajax> shouldn't matter, since you can't send signals to processed that are suid-not-you
 [17:41:19]  <cjb> nope.
 [17:41:52]  <cjb> ah, xinit ran as user, but X as root, and I guess /usr/bin/X is setuid.
 [17:42:44]  <airlied> I think you can kill processes you started even if they are setuid
 [17:43:01]  <cjb> got it, thanks.
 [17:43:06]  <ajax> bah.  looks like the cursor hide logic is a little too aggressive.
 [17:43:21]  <ajax> anholt: legitimate bug, thanks for finding it
 [17:46:46]  <ajax> ooh, and fixing it makes the code simpler.
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[17:50:50]  <ajax> or might, at any rate
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[17:53:23]  <ajax> anholt: can you try http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/smarter-cursor-unhide.patch and see if that xsetroot you gave makes the cursor appear?
 [17:53:27]  <ajax> it certainly should
 [17:53:36]  <ajax> i'd test but i'm out the door in like two minutes
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[17:59:08]  <anholt> ajax: at some point. my bugfixing stack is like 3 deep right now and I need to pop a few things off.
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[18:18:04]  <rtcm> hey, I'm getting a SIGSEGV on xnest from master, any know problems with it?
 [18:18:19]  <rtcm> backtrace:
 [18:18:22]  <rtcm> #0  0x0000000000425c85 in xnestSetCursor (pDev=0x873100, pScreen=0x8500d0, pCursor=0x860310, x=540, y=337) at Cursor.c:151
 [18:18:23]  <rtcm> #1  0x000000000043bcba in miPointerUpdateSprite (pDev=0x873100) at mipointer.c:393
 [18:18:23]  <rtcm> #2  0x000000000043b63f in miPointerDisplayCursor (pDev=0x873100, pScreen=0x8500d0, pCursor=0x860310) at mipointer.c:199
 [18:18:23]  <rtcm> #3  0x000000000042df20 in CursorDisplayCursor (pDev=0x873100, pScreen=0x8500d0, pCursor=0x87d550) at cursor.c:139
 [18:18:24]  <rtcm> #4  0x000000000052b5ac in UpdateSpriteForScreen (pDev=0x873100, pScreen=0x8500d0) at events.c:3017
 [18:18:26]  <rtcm> #5  0x000000000043baf3 in miPointerWarpCursor (pDev=0x873100, pScreen=0x8500d0, x=540, y=337) at mipointer.c:337
 [18:18:29]  <rtcm> #6  0x000000000043b78b in miPointerSetCursorPosition (pDev=0x873100, pScreen=0x8500d0, x=540, y=337, generateEvent=0) at mipointer.c:241
 [18:18:32]  <rtcm> #7  0x000000000052b29d in InitializeSprite (pDev=0x873100, pWin=0x861f90) at events.c:2946
 [18:18:34]  <rtcm> #8  0x0000000000510bb0 in EnableDevice (dev=0x873100) at devices.c:270
 [18:18:36]  <rtcm> #9  0x000000000051170a in InitAndStartDevices () at devices.c:628
 [18:18:38]  <rtcm> #10 0x000000000053baca in main (argc=3, argv=0x7fff2dc92068, envp=0x7fff2dc92088) at main.c:370
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[18:57:47]  <whot> rtcm: right. looks like  e02f864fdf1.
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[19:00:09]  <rtcm> whot: sorry, I don't follow
 [19:00:29]  <whot^ e02f8 broke it
 [19:01:27]  <rtcm> that commit is about not displaying a cursor by default
 [19:01:27]  <rtcm> ok, I will try to compile before that commit
 [19:04:34]  <ajax> gah, seriously?
 [19:05:45]  <whot^ yeah, reverting does fine.  xnest just dereferences unconditionally, so arguably that could be fixed in xnest
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[19:08:43]  <daniels> ajax: congrats on 7.4.
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[19:11:33]  <ajax> whot: dereferences what though?  that whole stanza is wrapped in if (pCursor)
 [19:13:09]  <whot^ xnestCursor() macro breaks somehow. gimme a minute and I can tell you why
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[19:14:31]  <ajax> but it shouldn't evaluate
 [19:16:40]  <whot^ pCursor == pInvisibleCursor says gdb
 [19:16:51]  <whot> so it's not NULL
 [19:17:13]  <ajax> oh, sure.  the invisible cursor gets created before CreateCursor gets wrapped
 [19:17:21]  <ajax> i bet, anyway
 [19:17:35]  <whot^ XFixesCursorInit
 [19:17:52]  <ajax> yeah, should happen from CreateScreenResources
 [19:22:47]  <ajax> although, hm.  that doesn't seem right either.
 [19:23:44]  <ajax> s/CreateCursor/RealizeCursor in my statement above and it's right
 [19:25:09]  <rtcm^ I'd told you if I was able to run ./autogen.sh on the tree as it was before that commit
 [19:25:36]  <ajax> hm?
 [19:26:22]  <dottedmag> Hmm... Today's patch fixing cross-compilation for libX11 does not work if compiler is set in command line, like make CC=...
 [19:27:01]  <dottedmag> however adding "override" to CC=@CC_FOR_BUILD@ fixes it. Is it ok to use this directive in makefiles.
 [19:27:08]  <dottedmag> Is it ok to use GNU extension in makefiles?
 [19:28:02]  <ajax^ if we were okay with using gnu make, presumably we'd just skip automake altogether
 [19:29:39]  <ajax> (no)
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[19:30:57]  <dottedmag> yeah. I'm trying to find out how to make it working in portable way.
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[19:39:19]  <rtcm> damn, i'm such a n00b :-P
 [19:39:56]  <rtcm> how come I've been able to run autogen.sh some hours ago and now it just doesn't work
 [19:39:59]  <rtcm> I don't get it
 [19:40:08]  <rtcm> possibly undefined macro: XTRANS_CONNECTION_FLAGS
 [19:40:15]  <rtcm> but I have xtrans installed
 [19:41:13]  <whot^ export ACLOCAL="aclocal -I/opt/xorg/share/aclocal" or something similar
 [19:41:19]  <ajax> http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/patches/cursor-wrap-fix.patch i think will work
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[19:41:41]  <rtcm> duh, I had removed the rpm and just kept the locally installed version
 [19:43:18]  <rtcm> whot: ah, thanks
 [19:44:20]  <ajax+ does the above look plausible?
 [19:44:48]  <whot^ it still crashes, can't comment much on the patch itself without looking at the context first
 [19:46:44]  <ajax> just moves the invisible cursor creation to CSR, by which time the DDX has had a chance to wrap RealizeCursor
 [19:47:15]  <ajax> and thus, can create cursor privates
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[19:53:29]  <whot> ajax: except that realizecursor is never called for the InvisibleCursor.
 [19:54:13]  <ajax> yes it is.  it's hidden down in AllocARGBCursor
 [19:56:18]  <ajax> at least, that's true for the 1.5 server i've got handy, but i don't think that changed in master
 [19:56:44]  <ajax> yay, moving the unhide to DisplayCursor from ChangeWindowAttributes appearts to DTRT
 [19:56:49]  <rtcm> well, I just can say that an xnest from before that commit does indeed not crash
 [19:57:16]  <ajax> as it's 8pm, i'm calling it beer time for now
 [19:58:36]  <whot^ it has, the whole device cursor concept broke that bit a bit. we don't have devices at this point in time, so AllocARGBCursor doesn't realize them
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[21:30:42]  <jg> ajax: congrats and thanks!
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[21:43:23]  <jg> evening vignatti
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[22:36:47]  <vignatti> jg: hello Jim
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[01:43:14]  <aaronp> Wow, is accidentally zapping the server a big enough problem that it really warrants a hundred-message thread?
 [01:43:36]  <aaronp> The only time I've ever accidentally zapped my server was when I meant to zap a different server but used the wrong keyboard...
 [01:47:00]  <airlied> I normally zap it when I get brain swapping going on, I'm holding ctrl-alt for some reason, and my other hand goes to backspace some text in my editor...
 [01:49:14]  <whot> yeah, same with me. i got a number of keyboard shortcuts with C+A, so switching vdesktop while deleting a character is bad.
 [01:51:12]  <whot> though I don't see why that is a reason to change the shortcut...
 [01:52:05]  <airlied> I actually don't see the reason people want to vote :)
 [01:52:16]  <airlied> we should enable dontzap by default and walk away :)
 [01:53:15]  <whot^ thinkofthechildren
 [01:53:59]  <airlied> we should ask some children, they probably would be better placed :)
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[03:22:44]  <[AD]Turbo> hola
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[05:37:11]  <glisse> what about stealing the new git commit script of mesa for other projects ? :)
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[05:49:49]  <MrCooper> I find it a little on the verbose/confusing side for merges
 [05:50:46]  <marcheu> yeah merges look like new commits
 [05:51:00]  <marcheu> each time I go like "hmm wasn't that done 3 months ago ?"
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[06:36:57]  <sxpert1> hmm http://gitweb.freedesktop.org appears b0rk
 [06:38:11]  <mjg59> cgit is more likely to be usable
 [06:38:52]  <sxpert1^ was just interested in browsing at this point though
 [06:39:17]  <mjg59^ ...
 [06:39:36]  <mjg59> cgit.freedesktop.org
 [06:40:14]  <sxpert1> ah, erh, yeah.
 [06:40:20]  <sxpert1> didn't know of that one ;)
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[10:06:37]  <ajax> whot: so if input devices don't exist at CSR time, when do they exist?
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[10:23:20]  <JohnFlux2> I have an existing Makefile.in   which under the install   rule does:
 [10:23:23]  <JohnFlux2> $(INSTALL) -g root -o root -m 755 libmd.so.1.0 $(DESTDIR)/$(prefix)/lib
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[10:23:47]  <JohnFlux2> that won't cross compile because of the -g root -o root     - any ideas what I should change this to?
 [10:25:24]  <dottedmag^ this does cross-compile for me, though it converts symlinks to regular files.
 [10:25:40]  <dottedmag> so I just replaced this part of makefile to cp & ln -s
 [10:26:02]  <dottedmag> have a look: http://git.openinkpot.org/libmd.git/
 [10:26:15]  <dottedmag> It is horrible hack, but it won't be necessary soon.
 [10:27:13]  <dottedmag> JohnFlux2: this: http://git.openinkpot.org/libmd.git/?a=blob;f=debian/patches/add-soname.patch;h=263dd3adf7da9f1f14bd1250dd79cd0f92ae9170;hb=HEAD
 [10:27:22]  <dottedmag> and this: http://git.openinkpot.org/libmd.git/?a=blob;f=debian/patches/disable-algos.patch;h=46eac3ef6f0c4b3d0fe4f72aa62dadbc0b9800bc;hb=HEAD
 [10:27:58]  <JohnFlux2> +       $(INSTALL) -g root -o root -m 644 sha.h $(BUILDROOT)/usr/include
 [10:28:07]  <JohnFlux2> dottedmag: that's not going to work if you're not root
 [10:28:22]  <dottedmag^ make install should be run under fakeroot or something like this anyway.
 [10:28:40]  <JohnFlux2> i've never had to use fakeroot before
 [10:28:42]  <jcristau^ that -g root -o root seems poinless...
 [10:28:45]  <JohnFlux2> you don't need it for X
 [10:28:54]  <jcristau> you could just remove it i think
 [10:28:59]  <dottedmag> yes, just drop it.
 [10:29:25]  <JohnFlux2^ also I change it to   $(BUILDROOT)/$(prefix)/include
 [10:29:41]  <JohnFlux2> where    prefix=@prefix@    at the top
 [10:29:49]  <dottedmag> yeah
 [10:30:01]  <dottedmag> Hmm... Seems that libmd does not have a pkg-config file too.
 [10:30:08]  <JohnFlux2> i hope i can change keithp's mind on this ;-)
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[10:32:35]  <dottedmag> JohnFlux2: I'm a bit concerned about md2/md4/md5.copyright
 [10:34:15]  <JohnFlux2^ in what way?
 [10:34:21]  <JohnFlux2> we're using sha1 anyway
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[10:34:47]  <dottedmag> JohnFlux2: does not look like a free license in any way.
 [10:35:10]  <JohnFlux2^ what are you referring to sorry?
 [10:35:16]  <JohnFlux2> libmd?
 [10:35:19]  <dottedmag^ yes
 [10:35:36]  <dottedmag> Though I agree - if it is patched out and only sha1 is compiled, then it is not a problem.
 [10:36:09]  <JohnFlux2> The algorithm is due to Ron Rivest. This code was written by Colin Plumb in 1993, no copyright is claimed. This code is in the public domain; do with it what you wish.
 [10:36:16]  <JohnFlux2> dottedmag: what's wrong with that?
 [10:36:30]  <JohnFlux2> ah, the others aren't like that
 [10:36:34]  <dottedmag> yeah
 [10:36:46]  <JohnFlux2> ugh
 [10:36:51]  <dottedmag> and there are additional .copyright files I don't know for.
 [10:36:52]  <JohnFlux2> i think you're right
 [10:36:55]  * JohnFlux2 nods
 [10:36:57]  <daniels> well, that statement itself won't really hold much water legally, since you can't unclaim copyright, only grant as many rights as possible, but the intention is clear enough.
 [10:37:25]  <JohnFlux2> License to copy and use this software is granted for non-commercial Internet Privacy-Enhanced Mail provided that it is identified as the "RSA Data Security, Inc. MD2 Message Digest Algorithm" in all material mentioning or referencing this software or this function.
 [10:37:58]  <ajax> daniels: ability to relinquish copyright is pretty well established, i thought.
 [10:38:26]  <marcheu^ but, france !
 [10:38:39]  * JohnFlux2 nods
 [10:38:45]  <dottedmag> Same for rmd160.c - only authors are mentioned, not the license.
 [10:39:07]  <ajax> marcheu: france's copyright laws are the least of its worries
 [10:39:21]  <daniels^ my understanding is that attempting to relinquish your copyright holds no water, however an assertion of public domain is obviously pretty well understood by courts as a statement of intent.
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[10:39:54]  <JohnFlux2> anyway, this "granted for non-commercial" license is clearly non-free
 [10:40:01]  <marcheu> heh, just joking about the fact that we can't release stuff in the public domain in france
 [10:40:11]  <ajax> honestly i can't imagine why anyone would do public domain instead of MIT
 [10:40:15]  <daniels> marcheu: and ajax was just joking about france ;)
 [10:40:22]  <daniels> ajax: because licenses are hard and this'll do, right?
 [10:40:33]  <dottedmag> JohnFlux2: maybe just make a libsha1 from it? ;)
 [10:40:42]  <JohnFlux2^ and put it where?
 [10:40:42]  <ajax> daniels: yeah, but that whole "disclaimer of liability" thing...
 [10:40:45]  <dottedmag> JohnFlux2: fd.o
 [10:40:56]  <JohnFlux2> daniels: do you think keithp would object against that idea?
 [10:41:04]  <JohnFlux2> having a libsha1 in fd.o
 [10:41:14]  <dottedmag> but separate from X
 [10:41:40]  <marcheu> I guess end users will complain that it's yet another package :)
 [10:41:43]  <ajax> don't we have kernel crypto facilities now?
 [10:41:53]  <ajax> marcheu: only embedded wackos have this problem
 [10:41:55]  <dottedmag+ it is only necessary for small devices
 [10:41:57]  <JohnFlux2> yeah but if he's against maintained a single sha1 file in X, used just for X,  surely it's a bigger job to also maintain a library?
 [10:41:59]  <dottedmag> marcheu: rest have openssl
 [10:42:25]  <dottedmag> JohnFlux2: the objection was about using _only_ bundled sha1
 [10:42:42]  <JohnFlux2^ ah, well I could fix the patch to make it a compile time option
 [10:43:09]  <dottedmag^ and the second objection was to have sha1 inside the X when there are alternatives.
 [10:43:09]  <JohnFlux2> I could check with keithp to see if he'll accept it as a fallback
 [10:43:26]  <JohnFlux2> dottedmag: right, but currently there doesn't seem to be a good alternative
 [10:43:37]  <dottedmag^ if we create one, then there will be.
 [10:43:39]  <jcristau> i guess i could see debian-legal people go after me for using openssl and gpl x drivers...
 [10:43:51]  <ajax^ i'm going to need it to be nss eventually anyway
 [10:43:52]  <jcristau> but, i could see myself not care
 [10:44:00]  <JohnFlux2> dottedmag: if we create one, that's more work than just adding it in the first place...
 [10:44:22]  <ajax> we have this crazy idea that you can build a distro with only one crypto library and thus only have to fips-certify one lib
 [10:44:26]  <dottedmag> agree, let's ask keithp first.
 [10:44:44]  <ajax> the joke, of course, is that fips-140 cert is possibly the most meaningless certification ever
 [10:45:09]  <JohnFlux2^ you need to give more of a visual que for when I should laugh
 [10:45:22]  <ajax> since all the government purchasing requirements merely state that you have to be certified, not that the software has to be deployed in a conformant way
 [10:45:39]  <dottedmag^ isn't fips-140 only a pretext to unify all the crypto for the sake of security team?
 [10:45:40]  <fredrikh> JohnFlux2: i think what keith meant is that the configure script should check if there's a system lib that provides the algorithm, and only enable the implementation in the server if there isn't one
 [10:45:44]  <ajax> (and thus, naturally, no one ever flips the fips-140-me-harder switch)
 [10:46:07]  <JohnFlux2> fredrikh: *nod*.  I'd like to check with him before I do this though
[10:46:53]  <ajax> dottedmag: well, no.  standardizing on one library to implement all your crypto is because you have to certify each implementation.
 [10:46:58]  <ajax> and each one is expensive
 [10:47:34]  <JohnFlux2> the point of the certification is for governments or something?
 [10:47:39]  <ajax> yes.
 [10:47:52]  <ajax> it's a government software purchasing requirement (for some sectors)
 [10:48:02]  <dottedmag> Interesting.
 [10:48:04]  <daniels> JohnFlux2: i can't read keithp's mind, sadly.  sometimes, i wish i could (it would explain a lot, i think), but alas not.
 [10:48:28]  <ajax> and in fairness, openssl is trash
 [10:48:35]  <ajax> standardizing on nss makes sense
 [10:48:38]  <daniels> no, really?
 [10:48:55]  <ajax> but it's completely quixotic
 [10:49:07]  <dottedmag> We've certified our distro "as whole" for use in governments and confedential infomation in Russia with lots of various security libraries inside, and nobody objected.
 [10:49:48]  <ajax> russian policies are ever so slightly different from usian
 [10:50:07]  <dottedmag> hmm... probably, regarding crypto, yes.
 [10:50:40]  <dottedmag> Though I still don't understand how did it work if GOST crypto was not included in OpenSSL, NSS and GPG :)
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[11:21:56]  <keithp> ajax: we should make the server build against nss then; that should be fairly easy
 [11:22:34]  <sxpert1^ gah, G45 mobos ain't coming yet :-
 [11:22:40]  <KaneTheWolf> goto
 [11:23:12]  <keithp> sxpert1: sorry to hear you can't give Intel money this week
 [11:23:20]  <KaneTheWolf> goto $0
 [11:24:00]  <KaneTheWolf> goto $1
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[11:25:20]  <sxpert1> keithp: heh
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[11:33:19]  <tilman> anyone want to roll a magictouch tarball? 1.0.0.5 doesn't build against xserver 1.5
 [11:34:59]  <jcristau^ it wouldn't work, either, so...
 [11:35:27]  <tilman> why not?
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[11:38:29]  <jcristau> tilman: bug#12425
 [11:39:48]  <tilman> i see, thanks
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[11:45:09]  <ajax> "Different Detailed Timing Descriptors are required for video formats with different picture aspect ratios.
 [11:45:12]  <ajax> The vertical and horizontal image size parameters shall contain numbers that describe the aspect ratio of
 [11:45:15]  <ajax> the displayed video (actual dimensions are preferred, but not required).
[11:45:18]  <ajax> "
 [11:45:24]  <ajax> thanks for that, CEA.
 [11:45:32]  <sxpert1> cool
 [11:45:41]  <ajax> no, not really.
 [11:45:44]  <sxpert1> aka "good luck implementing this crap"
 [11:46:14]  <ajax> i'd really like to not have to quirk up detailed timings that claim to be 16mm by 9mm
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[11:46:39]  <daniels> ajax: in fairness, that does account for projectors
 [11:47:08]  <ajax> actually edid 1.4 already accounts for projectors in a better way
 [11:47:27]  <daniels> fair
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[12:28:38]  <S_A> Hi! It might sound some stupid question but just want to know if there is anything that Xephyr doesn't work if client is connected to server via Wi-Fi. ?
 [12:28:49]  <S_A> I am seeing this starnge behavior in my system. ssh works fine but Xephyr is not working at all.
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[13:09:44]  <jasonlife> I found VgaArbiter.  http://wiki.x.org/wiki/VgaArbiter   What is this for?  I thought starting multiple X instance is already possible..
 [13:11:22]  <kylem> if you need to run the card bios on a second, or third, or fourth pci card, and it uses legacy vga access modes, you need a way for X to tell the pci bridges how to route the vga access (and to which device, as opposed to just the primary.)
 [13:11:36]  <kylem> amongst other reasons
 [13:13:38]  <jasonlife> Then, starting multiple X server works only with newer graphics cards that doesn't use legacy vga access mode? 
[13:13:58]  <jasonlife> I know there is a tutorial for multiseat with multiple X server..
 [13:14:02]  <kylem> "it depends"
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[13:16:18]  <jasonlife> -isolateDevice  option doesn't solve this problem?
 [13:17:33]  <kylem> it's mostly a way of implementing mutual exclusion over vga resources, so one driver doesn't stomp all over another running one.
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[13:18:07]  <kylem> ideally all drivers just use their own pci mmio regions and everything is happy.
 [13:18:40]  <kylem> it's not always the case, which is why things like the vga arbiter need t oexist.
 [13:19:28]  <jasonlife> Thanks for the explanation..
 [13:19:47]  <jasonlife> It is complicate to me.. :)
 [13:23:50]  <ajax> it's complicated to everyone
 [13:24:26]  <kylem> it's unfortunate that the problem exists at all.
 [13:24:39]  <kylem> but, unfortunately, my time machine is still a work in progress.
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[13:26:05]  <krh> agd5f: I have a patch here to setup a sil164 external tmds
 [13:26:18]  <krh> natively, not using atombios
 [13:26:26]  <agd5f^ what chip?
 [13:26:29]  <krh> r423
 [13:26:54]  <krh> agd5f: I traced the i2c register writes from atombios
 [13:27:13]  <krh> and put them into the driver where we would call into atombios earlier
 [13:27:16]  <agd5f> well, on r4xx we have atom, so, I don't see much value, but if you could adapt it to older chips, might be useful
 [13:27:40]  <krh^ this chips ends up using legacy setup for the external tmds though
 [13:28:19]  <krh> this is kms, not ddx
[13:28:31]  <agd5f^ right.  why not just use the atom call like the ddx?
 [13:28:55]  <krh^ it doesn't work - I tried it and it screws up the other crtc
 [13:29:15]  <agd5f^ you need to adjust the fp2 source
 [13:29:16]  <krh> and the external tmds display comes up with weird stripes
 [13:29:24]  <agd5f> like the ddx does
 [13:29:36]  <krh> I think I tried that
 [13:30:08]  <agd5f> weird
 [13:30:30]  <krh> and it is a little messy that atom sets up the wrong crtc, which we then have to fix up
 [13:31:34]  <agd5f> the only problem with that is, there may be cases where we have a chip other than an sil164
 [13:31:53]  <krh> in general mixing atom and direct register banging feels a bit dirty
 [13:32:09]  <krh> what other chips are there?
 [13:32:27]  <krh> is basically the same set as for intel?
 [13:32:38]  <dagb> JohnFlux2: have you considered dropping a standalone sha1 lib on the uclibc people?
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[13:33:36]  <krh> agd5f: http://people.freedesktop.org/~krh/external-tmds.patch
 [13:34:44]  <agd5f^ I'm working with the bios guys to get the atom stuff on r4xx sorted out.
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[13:39:46]  <krh> agd5f: what are you looking to do there?
 [13:39:49]  <jasonlife> kylem, if one X server uses multiple cards, what happens then?  X server is smart enough to control this? 
[13:40:07]  <agd5f> krh: use atom on r4xx
 [13:40:08]  <kylem> proceed to beer island?
 [13:40:44]  <kylem> jasonlife, i have no idea, honestly.
 [13:41:55]  <agd5f> krh: I've got the primary dac working with atom, I should have the rest sorted out before too long
 [13:42:30]  <krh> ok
 [13:42:53]  <krh> agd5f: but this patch just tries to setup a sil164 in the legacy path - that should be fine then
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[13:43:30]  <agd5f> krh: yeah
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[13:55:25]  <vignatti> jasonlife: if one X server uses multiple cards then it relies on the Resource Access Control module, which does basically the same role as the VGA arbiter but inside the server
 [13:55:42]  <vignatti> so if we want start lot of servers in parallel then we need some external entity to coordinate the vga resources
 [13:56:52]  <jasonlife^ wow.. thank.. that's clear..
 [13:56:59]  <jasonlife> appreciate..
 [13:58:23]  <vignatti^ np
[13:58:26]  <vignatti> for further reading:
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[13:58:33]  <vignatti> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/the-vga-arbiter/
 [13:58:38]  <vignatti> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/vga-arbiter-removing-rac/
 [13:58:45]  <vignatti> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/benchmarking-it-all/
 [13:58:45]  <jasonlife> thanks..
 [13:58:48]  <vignatti> that's it :)
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[14:50:20]  <ajax> hmm.
 [14:50:36]  <ajax> internal representation of interlaced modes isn't the most well defined thing
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[14:53:46]  <daniels> i'm glad i was sitting down for that earth-shattering revelation.
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[14:59:23]  <federico1> hi guys
 [14:59:45]  <federico1> when HAL spits out one of the funny keys in laptops ("switchvideomode"), what translates it to our XF86Display keysym?
 [14:59:52]  <federico1> (i.e. which git module should I get...)
 [15:01:14]  <daniels> heh :)
 [15:01:47]  <daniels> usually that comes in via xf86-input-evdev (current) or xf86-input-keyboard (legacy), then through xserver, via rules specified in xkeyboard-config
 [15:02:19]  <daniels> unfortunately evdev gets tricky because we can't have keycodes above 255, and a lot of crazy extended keys aren't in that range, but we're planning to fix that for 7.5, with any luck.
 [15:03:17]  <ajax> i thought we handled that directly from the keyboard device
 [15:03:42]  <ajax> daniels: i had a different idea for that, but i have no idea how crazy it is
 [15:04:15]  <ajax> any reason to not present the "high" keysyms as another keyboard with model of (say) evdev2?
 [15:05:59]  <federico1> daniels: hmmm, actually, I'm looking for how to answer this:  "I have a laptop whose funny keys don't work.  What do I need to add to some .fdi file to make them work?"
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[15:06:20]  <federico1> I was just looking at those fdi files for the first time, and seeing if I could correlate what they say to something in the xorg sources
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[15:07:24]  <federico1> oh, duh
 [15:07:26]  * federico1 finds http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/quirk/quirk-keymap-index.html
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[15:17:31]  <daniels> ajax: yeah, because you have to have DeviceIntRecs or oh my god grabs
 [15:17:49]  <daniels> s/have/& different/, and even then, you can only really fix that with active Xi awareness, and christ, just use new-Xi
 [15:18:07]  <daniels> federico1: yeah, it's an indirect mapping :)
 [15:19:42]  <federico1^ here's the thing...
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[15:21:02]  <federico1> daniels: in Recent Distros(tm) we have some code in gnome to handle XF86Display to toggle the video outputs.  That code comes from git repos outside svn.gnome.org (it hasn't been committed there yet).  However, I want to have a way for people to tell me if their laptop is already wired to emit that key so that gnome will handle it --- i.e. if the kernel/hal already know about their laptop
 [15:22:07]  <daniels^ ask hal
 [15:22:20]  <federico1^ how?
 [15:23:15]  <federico1> ideally I would tell people "run this command and press this and that key.  If the command says <blah> your laptop is good, if it says <bleh> it's not good and you should tell me about it with $instructions_to_figure_out_the_correct_info"
 [15:24:52]  <daniels^ hmm, maybe xev or showkeys.
 [15:25:23]  <ajax> you could figure it out by inspection over /proc/bus/input/devices too
 [15:26:19]  <ajax> whichever bit in the KEY line that corresponds to KEY_SWITCHVIDEOMODE in <linux/input.h>
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[15:30:56]  <ajax> mtrr: base(0xd3620000) is not aligned on a size(0x640000) boundary
 [15:31:13]  <ajax> that seems like an unlikely alignment to care about
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[16:07:19]  <evocallaghan> alanc:Hi, so I starting building Xorg 7.4 on solaris
 [16:11:27]  <alanc> good
 [16:12:41]  <tjaalton^ hey, did you read the mail I sent you about the problems with the autoconfig commit?
 [16:15:29]  <alanc^ sounds like a mail stuck in my todo list since I've been swamped
 [16:16:50]  <tjaalton^ ok
 [16:18:57]  <tjaalton> the main problem was that it only works if there's no xorg.conf
 [16:31:16]  <evocallaghan> alanc:Do you know what's going on with https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13389 ?
 [16:31:40]  <evocallaghan> Or anyone for that matter
 [16:31:57]  <alanc^ not I, would have to ask someone who works on XAA/EXA or intel driver
 [16:35:14]  <evocallaghan^ although I am not sure its affecting me but I have *very* slow graphics on snv_98
 [16:35:32]  <evocallaghan> alanc:Its like windows pause for a sec and then react again
 [16:36:03]  <evocallaghan> also I can't get above 1024x768 alanc; here is my bug report http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=2842
 [16:36:44]  <alanc> looks like an intel driver problem, will have to ask our intel people to look at it
 [16:37:45]  <evocallaghan^ I filed it ages ago and nothing has been done. I am rather unhappy as I need this MB to work here so I can work on opensolaris and I have limited funds to go and buy a new card
 [16:38:30]  <alanc> not sure anyone from the Xorg driver team sees bugs filed under hardware - they usually come in under desktop
 [16:41:55]  <evocallaghan^ I'll change it
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[16:43:36]  <evocallaghan> alanc:Done.
 [16:44:31]  <evocallaghan> alanc:niveditha seems to be on there. But no one has spoken up yet. Is there any more details I could add that would help ?
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[16:44:44]  <alanc> evocallaghan: I added niveditha about 5 minutes ago
 [16:44:56]  <evocallaghan^ thanks!
 [16:46:20]  <evocallaghan> alanc:Now, how can one 'prove' Xorg's slowness .. Get some debug etc ..?
 [16:46:42]  <alanc> x11perf results maybe
 [16:47:15]  <alanc> I think niveditha was changing our build of the intel driver to switch back to XAA by default, she may know more
 [16:47:40]  <evocallaghan> alanc:OK but it did not seem to help
 [16:49:02]  <evocallaghan> alanc:Just running these tests -all
 [16:49:19]  <evocallaghan> Anything else I can provide ?
 [16:49:25]  <evocallaghan> truss maybe ?
 [16:51:05]  <alanc> I don't know
 [16:52:04]  <evocallaghan> OK. Thanks anyway. I'll see how this goes
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[17:06:01]  <evocallaghan> alanc:http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=3582 make any sense ?
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[17:28:06]  <jasonlife> Does one screen has one CRTC ? or Can it has more than one CRTCs?  if it is, when is the case it has more than one CRTC ?
 [17:28:34]  <mjg59^ One physical screen?
 [17:28:53]  <jasonlife> no one logical screen
 [17:29:00]  <mjg59> Well, sure
 [17:29:09]  <mjg59> It's the common xrandr case with an extended desktop
 [17:29:40]  <jasonlife> with extended desktop, I think one logical screen has one CRTC and multiple output.. isn't it?
 [17:29:54]  <daniels^ Screens (protocol) are unused.  you have one.
 [17:30:19]  <mjg59+ No, with an extended desktop you have one CRTC per monitor
 [17:30:44]  <daniels> that Screen can have multiple gpus (well, as of xserver 1.6), which can have multiple crtcs (think: multiple framebuffers), which can have multiple outputs (think: multiple monitors).
 [17:32:09]  <jasonlife> When I take a look at the intel driver source, it only creates crtc once, so I thought it has only one crtc per a logical screen..
 [17:32:47]  <jasonlife> So, when I run xrandr command to activate second head, does X create one more crtc then?
 [17:32:57]  <mjg59> No, you can't create crtcs
 [17:33:03]  <mjg59> They're part of the hardware
 [17:33:41]  <jasonlife> xf86CrtcCreate(), this function is called from the driver to create crtc..
 [17:34:05]  <ajax> that's just creating the server's internal data structures corresponding to a crtc.
 [17:34:17]  <ajax> it doesn't make the hardware suddenly have more crtcs.
 [17:35:12]  <mjg59> jasonlife: Intel hardware all has two CRTCs - they're called "pipes" in the Intel driver
 [17:35:23]  <jasonlife> OK..  only  does one crtc data structure exist for extended screen setup?
 [17:36:13]  <jasonlife> I think I'm confused between hardware and data structure in X server..
 [17:36:37]  <airlied> mjg59: well all modern intel hw has two pipes.
 [17:36:51]  <airlied> 845/865 was all single pipe.
 [17:37:00]  <mjg59> Mm. Yeah, let's ignore the desktop chipsets.
 [17:37:02]  <mjg59> And i740.
 [17:37:04]  <jasonlife> I think , in X server, it has one crtc data structure and multiple output structure..
 [17:37:25]  <jasonlife> each ouput structure is match to one pipe..
[17:38:03]  <ajax> hey man
 [17:38:08]  <mjg59> jasonlife:     for (i = 0; i < num_pipe; i++) {
 [17:38:08]  <mjg59>         i830_crtc_init(pScrn, i);
 [17:38:08]  <mjg59>     }
 [17:38:11]  <ajax> i740 is the best chipset ever
 [17:38:23]  <mjg59> jasonlife: And then i830_crtc_init calls xf86CrtcCreate
 [17:38:34]  <mjg59> So on a dual-pipe system, it'll be called twice
 [17:40:21]  <jasonlife^ yes you are right.. indeed.. :P
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[17:47:11]  <jasonlife> mjg59,  what is Output then?
 [17:47:41]  <mjg59^ A single crtc can map to several outptus
 [17:47:47]  <mjg59> For instance, VGA and TV out
 [17:48:13]  <ajax> a crtc is a rectangle of pixels
 [17:48:25]  <ajax> an output is a piece of glass through which you see pixels.
 [17:48:54]  <jasonlife> so, output is part of crtc..  am i right?
 [17:49:02]  <ajax> no
 [17:49:16]  <ajax> a crtc can be connected to one or more outputs
 [17:49:26]  <ajax> but one is not part of the other.
 [17:49:35]  <jasonlife> I see
 [17:50:16]  <jasonlife> Why does a graphic card has two pipe?  what is the other for?
 [17:50:29]  <mjg59^ So you can display two different images
 [17:50:31]  <jasonlife> one for VGA and one for DVI?
 [17:50:43]  <airlied> or for laptop panel
 [17:50:45]  <mjg59> jasonlife: Which could be for two DVI outputs, or an LVDS output and a VGA output, or whatever
 [17:50:58]  <mjg59> Ideally you'd have as many crtcs as you have outputs
 [17:51:08]  <mjg59> But two is pretty normal
 [17:51:21]  <ajax> if two outputs are connected to the same crtc, they are therefore showing the same thing.
 [17:51:36]  <ajax> if they're connected to _different_ crtcs, they can show different things.
 [17:51:37]  <jasonlife> ah..
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[17:51:56]  <jasonlife> like clone mode and extended mode?
 [17:52:00]  <mjg59> Right
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[17:54:11]  <jasonlife> if I set up extended screen, then does randr still work?   there are two crtcs, so..
 [18:02:00]  <jasonlife> s/randr/rotation
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[18:05:30]  <daniels> yes, because rotation is a property of the crtc.
 [18:06:50]  <jasonlife> even though, there are two crtcs,
[18:06:51]  <jasonlife> ?
 [18:07:23]  <daniels> yes ...
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[18:12:26]  <npmccallum> So what do I need to do to get someone to review my modalias patch for inclusion?
 [18:12:41]  <npmccallum> I've sent lots of emails, obviously I'm doing something wrong :)
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[18:17:10]  <cjb> Could anyone explain SMART_SCHEDULE_POSSIBLE, please?
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[18:19:38]  <cjb> I'm getting SIGTERM when inside SmartScheduleTimer(); it might just be that that's where X happened to me, but I'd like to discount the smart-schedule stuff from being responsible.
 [18:19:56]  <daniels^ http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/uuacKSN62
 [18:20:15]  <daniels> you can start with -dumbSched and timerbegone!
 [18:20:32]  <cjb> woot!
 [18:20:34]  <cjb> thanks
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[18:37:31]  <jasonlife> mjg59, daniels, thanks.. I learned a lot
 [18:38:19]  <mjg59> daniels: Oh, yeah. My lvds reclock stuff works fine now, except that every so often it'll get stuck in a tight loop in the timer scheduling function
 [18:38:45]  <mjg59> It's like there's some kind of race in there, and I'm hitting it often enough to trigger it in a couple of days of use
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[18:47:16]  <npmccallum> daniels: anychance you could review my xorg modalias patch?
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[18:50:37]  <jcristau> npmccallum: i pushed a patch a few days ago that had been sitting on the list for 9 months. so your patch not getting applied in a week doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong.
 [18:50:57]  <npmccallum^ ok, what can I do better?
 [18:52:57]  <jcristau> dunno. make days more than 24h?
 [18:57:39]  <whot> ajax: in theory InitializeSprite should realize the cursor, not sure why it doesn't work in this case. it's on my list for today though
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[21:11:18]  <unfo> pcpa: ping.  I hope you don't see http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17726 as rude - I didn't mean it as rude :)
 [21:11:24]  <unfo> alanc: ping
 [21:12:25]  <alanc^ yes?
 [21:12:44]  <unfo^ oops, nothing
 [21:13:15]  <unfo> I was confused for a minute, but now I have come to my senses and realized Xorg really does not distribute binaries.
 [21:13:32]  <alanc> nope, just sources - distros make binaries
 [21:13:54]  <unfo> maybe Xorg could rename xedit to xriskyedit or something?
 [21:14:21]  <alanc> don't see why we would
 [21:14:25]  <unfo> or would that be too much work i.e. changing of build scripts
 [21:14:31]  <unfo> alanc: i mean until the bug is fixed
 [21:15:05]  <alanc> still seems like a pointless waste of time
 [21:15:23]  <alanc> if someone's going to spend that much time on xedit, they should spend it fixing the bug
 [21:15:31]  <unfo^ fair enough.
 [21:15:39]  <unfo> what do you think of my workaround proposal?
 [21:16:01]  <alanc> not hacking build scripts that only affects people who build from git, since distros won't pull in a change like that
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[21:16:39]  <alanc> I don't know what workaround you're talking about
 [21:17:13]  * unfo quotes from #c0: "If the ideal fix is not possible:  xedit should be renamed to xriskyedit to
 [21:17:25]  <unfo> was my quote cut off before the closing quotation mark?
 [21:18:40]  <alanc> I thought we just covered that xriskyedit was a waste of time - thought you were referring to something else
 [21:19:48]  <unfo> i was proposing renaming the package to xriskyedit-1.1.1.tar.gz
 [21:19:59]  <unfo> #c0 was about renaming the binary.
 [21:20:38]  <unfo> I proposed the xriskyedit renam